Latest / Simply Bitcoin / NEW: How Much Bitcoin You Need To Retire by 2029? | EP 1225

Transcript

NEW: How Much Bitcoin You Need To Retire by 2029? | EP 1225 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  Yo imagine if .1 Bitcoin could be enough to retire by 2029.
• 0:06
  Well, today we're going to be breaking down three different
• 0:09
  retirement strategies that Michael Saylor has revealed in
• 0:13
  his personal Bitcoin retirement calculator, which he made open
• 0:17
  source. We're going to be dropping a
• 0:18
  link for you guys in the video description.
• 0:20
  The name of this retirement calculator is Bitcoin 24 and it
• 0:25
  doesn't matter whether you're all in Bitcoin, own hundreds of
• 0:28
  Bitcoin or whether you own a small fraction of a Bitcoin like
• 0:31
  .01 BTC. You're going to want to want
• 0:34
  you're going to want to stick around to see all the different
• 0:37
  calculations we're going to be looking at in today's show
• 0:39
  because everything has changed since we originally covered this
• 0:43
  topic many months ago. Think about it the tariffs, the
• 0:47
  strategic Bitcoin reserve, literally one of the most
• 0:51
  bullish cycles in terms of news, one of the most depressing
• 0:54
  cycles in terms of price action. So we're going to be we're going
• 0:57
  to revisit this topic and I know that you guys absolutely love
• 1:01
  it. This bull market has given us
• 1:03
  has given us more time than we've had.
• 1:05
  So how much Bitcoin do you need to retire by 2029?
• 1:11
  Before we jump into it, I do want to bring up our special
• 1:14
  guest for today. We have Paul Rogers in the
• 1:17
  house. Paul Rogers is a former
• 1:19
  certified financial planner and author of money love Bitcoin
• 1:24
  Offi. I mean, Opti, I'm going to need
• 1:25
  you to do a little bit of background producing while I.
• 1:30
  What happened with the rumble? Dude it always does this.
• 1:32
  All right, OK, so let's try to get the rumble stream up and
• 1:38
  we're going to plug in some numbers and we're going to go
• 1:40
  through some definitions. And these are some of Sailor's
• 1:44
  definitions and he actually did this presentation originally at
• 1:51
  Bitcoin 2024 in Nashville. And he defines a, a, a couple of
• 1:57
  different things, right? So first of all, there's the
• 2:00
  normie. The normie is someone who has 0%
• 2:04
  of their portfolio in Bitcoin. Then there's the BTC 10%, pretty
• 2:08
  self-explanatory. It's someone who has 10% of
• 2:12
  their portfolio in Bitcoin. Then there's the BTC maxi who
• 2:16
  has 80% of the portfolio in Bitcoin and converts 80% of
• 2:22
  their excess earnings into Bitcoin.
• 2:25
  And then I would put me and Opti into this category, the double
• 2:29
  maxi category. So they have 100% of their
• 2:32
  portfolio in BTC and they have 100% of their excess earnings
• 2:38
  converted into BTC. And then there is the triple
• 2:44
  maxi. So the triple maxi is some
• 2:46
  someone who has 100% of their portfolio on BTCA, 100% of their
• 2:50
  excess earnings converted into BCC.
• 2:52
  But it's a little bit of a leverage in the sense that
• 2:56
  they're actually allocating, they're increasing their
• 3:00
  mortgage by a good amount just to put that into Bitcoin.
• 3:06
  So it is a little bit of a leverage play.
• 3:09
  I don't recommend leverage. It's not just been doing this
• 3:13
  for nine years, been in this industry for nine years,
• 3:16
  leverage is no bueno. I highly recommend against it.
• 3:18
  So we're gonna for the sake of this show, I'm assuming the
• 3:22
  majority of you guys fit into the in between the BTC 10 and
• 3:28
  the double maxi category. So for the sake of this example,
• 3:34
  we're going to go with double maxi.
• 3:35
  So double maxi is someone who has 100% of their portfolio in
• 3:40
  BTC and we're going to plug in a variety of numbers and then
• 3:45
  we'll do the math. We'll show you guys the chart,
• 3:47
  we'll show you guys the data. You guys are absolutely going to
• 3:49
  love this. So stick around, smash the like
• 3:51
  button. We are just getting started, so
• 3:54
  let's put in some figures here. So first of all, what is the
• 3:58
  starting amount of Bitcoin we are going to be using for this
• 4:02
  example? Paul, I'm going to pass it on to
• 4:05
  you. Did Paul drop out?
• 4:11
  We lost them all. Right.
• 4:12
  So I'm going to pass it on to Paul.
• 4:14
  Hey, so Paul, I'm going to pass it on to you.
• 4:17
  What is the starting amount of BTC?
• 4:24
  From the spreadsheet. No, it could be anything.
• 4:27
  It could be anything. So let's start, you know, let's
• 4:31
  start off with one, right? Let's let's start off with one
• 4:33
  and then we'll go to, you know, .01, we'll go to .1 and then it
• 4:39
  says assets excluding Bitcoin. And this is of course in, in,
• 4:44
  in, in, in, in, in a thousand 1000 intervals, right.
• 4:48
  So, you know, for the sake of this, let's just say that you
• 4:52
  have 100K extra. You can plug in your earnings.
• 4:57
  Let's use the average salary here in the United States, which
• 5:00
  is about 60 K. Then earnings growth with I
• 5:04
  think is normal and the income tax is around 40%.
• 5:09
  Let's move that slow. That's like 30%.
• 5:11
  And let's look, let's take a look at some of this data,
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  Right. So you start off with with one
• 5:22
  Bitcoin, and I don't know why it says 2 down there.
• 5:26
  Hold on. That is weird.
• 5:31
  Yeah. OK.
• 5:32
  Number. Oh, OK.
• 5:33
  You know what it is? It's number of Bitcoin
• 5:35
  purchased. So let's put zero there.
• 5:38
  There we go. Much better.
• 5:40
  All right, so number of Bitcoin, right?
• 5:43
  So you start off with one, and this was originally in 2024,
• 5:47
  this was released during the Bitcoin Nashville conference.
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  So you start off with one Bitcoin and then based on the
• 5:53
  amount of income that the excess of the the assets excluding then
• 5:58
  the earnings and the earnings growth, it does the percentage,
• 6:01
  right? What percentage of that extra
• 6:03
  earnings you're going to put into Bitcoin And over time, you
• 6:06
  know, you'll be able to stack, but obviously Bitcoin's price,
• 6:09
  it gets higher. Now, what's really, really
• 6:11
  interesting about this is take a look at this forecast, right?
• 6:16
  And it plugs in Michael Saylor's scenario, right, of the famous
• 6:22
  $13 million Bitcoin by the year 2045.
• 6:26
  So it's really interesting that, you know, your earnings start to
• 6:32
  grow as you know the years go by.
• 6:36
  If it follows Michael Saylors, you know, predicted compound
• 6:40
  rate of I think initially it's around 40% and then he says it's
• 6:44
  going to start stabilizing at the end of the decade around
• 6:48
  like 25% and then it's going to stabilize around 20%.
• 6:52
  But as you can see, just with one Bitcoin by the year 2045, if
• 6:56
  you continue to stack, right, you continue to grow your stack
• 7:00
  overtime, you can put it, you can continue to put a percentage
• 7:03
  of your earnings in Bitcoin, right?
• 7:05
  You end up with, you know, here, according to this $22 million.
• 7:11
  So Opti, if you can, while I continue to plug in numbers
• 7:14
  here, could you put Bitcoin 2024 or a link to it in the live chat
• 7:20
  so people can plug in their own numbers depending on, you know,
• 7:24
  their their financial situation, of course.
• 7:27
  Where is it at? Just just go Bitcoin 24 on
• 7:30
  Google, you know calculator. So let's go with normie, right?
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  And let's plug in some different numbers here.
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  So with normie, let's say you have .1 Bitcoin, right?
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  And let's say assets excluding Bitcoin.
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  Let's say that's zero, right? You don't have any other
• 7:50
  savings. Say your earnings is 60 K.
• 7:54
  You know your earnings growth, but you know with .1 Bitcoin in
• 7:59
  the year 20242045, if Bitcoin hits, you know Michael Saylor's
• 8:05
  predicted price by 2045, his base case which is $13 million
• 8:10
  per coin, .1 Bitcoin could be $2,000,000 by the year 2045.
• 8:18
  By the year 2035.1 Bitcoin could potentially be 1,000,000
• 8:24
  Bitcoin. Is that, I mean $1 million, Is
• 8:26
  that overly bullish? Is that overly bearish?
• 8:29
  Please let us know down in the comments below, but we're going
• 8:32
  to plug in more numbers here. Let's plug in five Bitcoin.
• 8:38
  Here we go, Boom 5 Bitcoin and let's check it out, $68 million
• 8:47
  by the year 2045. By 2035, Bitcoin would equate to
• 8:54
  roughly 2030. Paul, do you have any comments
• 8:57
  when we're looking at this? You were a financial planner.
• 9:00
  Any comments, any thoughts? And just to give a little bit of
• 9:03
  context, this is based on Michael's model that he
• 9:08
  presented at Bitcoin 2024 where he made the case that the bare
• 9:12
  case for Bitcoin by 2025, I mean by 2045 would be $3,000,000
• 9:17
  Bitcoin. The base case would be $13
• 9:20
  million Bitcoin. The bull case would be $58
• 9:23
  million Bitcoin. This is based on that, right?
• 9:28
  So Paul, I'm going to hand the mic to you.
• 9:30
  What are your thoughts on all this, especially from someone
• 9:33
  who comes from the financial planning world?
• 9:36
  Is this overly ambitious? What's your take?
• 9:41
  Well, it's giving me flashbacks and a little bit of nightmares
• 9:43
  to, yeah, you know, have going through reams of data and
• 9:46
  spreadsheets like this and, and assumptions to help do that for
• 9:50
  regular people. You know, and there's so many
• 9:55
  assumptions in this. And obviously I think many of
• 9:58
  them are reasonable that Michael is using.
• 10:00
  But you also have to convert that N number to a purchasing
• 10:04
  power number and an assumed inflation rate.
• 10:07
  You know, there's one way, which is says, you know, how much do I
• 10:11
  have to get to until I can kick back, do nothing and lead a
• 10:15
  decent lifestyle? That's a fair question.
• 10:20
  And the other one is what else am I going to do with my money
• 10:24
  other than Bitcoin if I'm not spending as much as I make?
• 10:30
  And the reality is we still need to all be contributing value no
• 10:34
  matter what. And so the more value you
• 10:37
  contribute, the more you can put it in Bitcoin and the better off
• 10:40
  you'll likely be because nobody knows exactly what the future is
• 10:43
  going to look like. But if you understand enough
• 10:46
  that this is the best chance out there and the best asset that's
• 10:49
  going to grow and accumulate at some rate, then where else would
• 10:53
  you put the money? Not on any of the things that I
• 10:56
  used to put the money into. Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:00
  No, I completely agree. I somewhat I I see someone in
• 11:03
  the chat they're talking about Wen Moon.
• 11:05
  So Opti, let's let's share the Wen Moon calculator shout out
• 11:11
  Jimbo. I actually saw him at the bit
• 11:14
  block boom conference and it breaks it down.
• 11:18
  It makes it a little bit easier than sailors Bitcoin 2024
• 11:22
  calculator. I'm also going to put this in
• 11:24
  the live chat for you guys to play around with, but
• 11:29
  essentially it does exactly the same thing.
• 11:32
  So you put in what your stack size is.
• 11:34
  So let's leave this for one, your desired income in today's
• 11:39
  dollar. So what it what would be your
• 11:40
  desired income? So 200,100 thousand, right, the
• 11:45
  annual USD supply increase. So the AKA inflation, what would
• 11:50
  be what would be your, what would be the estimated inflation
• 11:54
  Paul moving forward? Well, if you're going to do an
• 11:58
  M2 money supply 7 to 8% now, but you have to consider that may
• 12:01
  well be much more than that in the future.
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  So that 12 number would be more conservative.
• 12:07
  All right. So let's leave the, let's put
• 12:09
  that 12% and then Paul, I haven't asked you this question.
• 12:14
  What would be, what do you predict?
• 12:16
  And I, I know it's puts you in a, puts you in a bit of a bind,
• 12:19
  but what let's do a range. What would you expect would be
• 12:23
  the annual Bitcoin appreciation rate from here?
• 12:27
  Yeah, you know the the $64,000 question that nobody knows the
• 12:31
  answer to. So when I was planning, I mean,
• 12:33
  you do a low middle and a high range and a likelihood of
• 12:36
  success. And so, you know, start low.
• 12:40
  If you have more than that, you're going to be happy and
• 12:43
  happier earlier. So call it 20% to start.
• 12:48
  We hope it's going to be more like 40 and it's not
• 12:51
  unreasonable to do 40, but. So, OK, so we put 20, we're
• 12:57
  going to do 20, we're going to do both.
• 12:58
  So your your stock size would be 1 Bitcoin for the sake of this
• 13:02
  example again, you could plug in numbers based on your personal
• 13:05
  situation, your desired income in today's dollar in today's
• 13:10
  dollars 100,000 annual USD supply increase 12% annual
• 13:16
  Bitcoin appreciation rate 20 and it does the math.
• 13:21
  So when moon is essentially when you'd be able to retire, when
• 13:24
  you'd be able to live off your Bitcoin with these numbers, the
• 13:28
  year would be 2065 SA long time from now, long time from now
• 13:36
  with these numbers. So we can all we can change the
• 13:39
  metrics a little bit. Let's move this up to the 40.
• 13:43
  Let's make it a 40 and look at the difference.
• 13:46
  Major, major difference. But I would echo what Paul was
• 13:50
  saying, right? You got a plan for the worse and
• 13:54
  you know you got to hit the conservative aspect first and
• 13:56
  then the more bullish aspect and then we're going to do 30% to
• 14:00
  see where it where it lines up. So your personal boom date, if
• 14:04
  you have one Bitcoin or 100 million sats right would be the
• 14:08
  year 20. It would be the year 2032.
• 14:12
  You'd be able to start withdrawing your Bitcoin and
• 14:16
  you'd be able to start withdrawing $100,000 a year, the
• 14:20
  year and your personal moon date would be 2032.
• 14:23
  Now let's move it to the annual Bitcoin appreciation rate of
• 14:26
  30%. And again, not that bad, 2038.
• 14:32
  So I mean, you know, 13 years from now, one Bitcoin $100,000,
• 14:38
  you'd be able to withdraw even with a 12% inflation rate.
• 14:42
  So these are crazy numbers guys. If you have any, any examples
• 14:46
  you want us to plug into these calculators, please drop it into
• 14:50
  the chat and we'll do just that. Feel free to plug in your
• 14:53
  numbers. We're dropping all the links to
• 14:54
  all these resources, so obviously you know it will fit
• 14:58
  your own particular financial situation.
• 15:01
  Let's use the thumbnail example .0.
• 15:03
  Was it .01 or .1 Opti? Point 1.1.
• 15:07
  All right, let's do .1. All right, 100,000 and 2045.
• 15:13
  I mean, not bad, not bad at all, 202054, so not bad at all.
• 15:19
  One with .1 Bitcoin, you'll be able if Bitcoin continues to
• 15:23
  increase with the 30%, you know, yearly appreciation 12%
• 15:28
  inflation rate in the United States, right?
• 15:31
  You know there the the target inflation rate is roughly 3.
• 15:34
  Paul, let me ask you something. Why do you think it's 12% if
• 15:37
  they're reporting that inflation is under 3% now it's like a 2.2.
• 15:41
  Why? Why are you saying that the
• 15:42
  inflation rate is 12%? Well, I'm going to use M2 money
• 15:46
  supply as a better rate than the CPI.
• 15:51
  So that's why I say that that's in the 7 to 8% range.
• 15:54
  But if you assume they're going to have to turn the money
• 15:55
  printer on even more with the debt levels and the spending
• 15:59
  levels we have, then we might be looking at more like 12.
• 16:02
  But you could put 8% in there and that's going to dramatically
• 16:05
  change the numbers. Yeah, what?
• 16:08
  What numbers do you suggest we put in here?
• 16:11
  Put in 8 instead of 12. All right, let's do 8, let's do
• 16:15
  8, and let's see how it changes 2047.
• 16:19
  So .1 Bitcoin, apparently you'll be able to take out $100,000, a
• 16:23
  $100,000 a year, an 8% inflation rate, 30% annual Bitcoin
• 16:31
  appreciation rate, and by the year 2047, you'll be able to
• 16:37
  take out, you know, roughly $100,000, you know, if these
• 16:42
  numbers hold true. So it's really, really
• 16:45
  interesting. But I like what Paul was saying
• 16:47
  in regards to continuing to work, continuing to provide
• 16:52
  value. And I saw someone else in the
• 16:54
  chat say that too. Wait, I have better Jim Johnson,
• 16:58
  Absolute savage. I have better advice.
• 17:01
  Get a job. Yeah, so.
• 17:03
  He's a cash maxi. He's a cash maxi so.
• 17:06
  Is he is he, is he a cash maxi? So Dan says the Bitcoin price
• 17:10
  ought to be at 150 K already. Yeah.
• 17:12
  So before we continue the show, Paul and, you know, cover the
• 17:16
  different topics and the different videos that we're
• 17:19
  going to go over today. Yeah, a lot of people were
• 17:22
  expecting the Bitcoin price to be a lot higher by now.
• 17:26
  Obviously, as Bitcoiners, we see that as a good thing because it
• 17:29
  gives us more time to acquire or stack cheaper sats.
• 17:35
  But what is your own perception of this?
• 17:37
  Like, why hasn't the Bitcoin price?
• 17:39
  I mean, if you compare it to previous cycles, you can make a
• 17:43
  very strong case that Bitcoin, in fact, has been
• 17:45
  underperforming. What's your take on that?
• 17:50
  Yeah. So, no, it's a great question
• 17:51
  and it's one we all want to know what, what's the number going to
• 17:54
  be when? And the answer is nobody knows.
• 17:58
  So I was never a chart guy when I was in the business.
• 18:01
  I was a fundamentals guy. And so, you know, look at the
• 18:05
  fundamentals and I go back to again, where else are you going
• 18:09
  to put your money that you think has a better rate of return and
• 18:14
  makes more sense as a store of value than Bitcoin, knowing that
• 18:20
  our Fiat currencies have been abysmal disasters.
• 18:24
  And with the state of the present state of affairs don't
• 18:28
  look like they're on a trajectory, even if something
• 18:31
  changes in the government and some plans go in to to
• 18:35
  fundamentally make a difference. So where else you going to put
• 18:39
  it? And you know, I caution people,
• 18:42
  don't just try to play with those charts to come up with the
• 18:45
  numbers that you want to see and then start going and tell your
• 18:49
  wife, hey, we're retiring in 2029 because look at these
• 18:53
  numbers. You know, that's setting
• 18:56
  yourself up for a potential problem.
• 18:59
  If in 2029 you hit that number, great.
• 19:03
  You know, you can make that decision then, but again, you
• 19:06
  still have to add value. Whether it's starting a business
• 19:10
  or creating a or having a job, you want to be doing something
• 19:14
  of value. And that's true even if you have
• 19:17
  enough Bitcoin that you don't have to do a job that you don't
• 19:22
  want to do anymore, you still want to be doing something of
• 19:25
  value with the rest of your life.
• 19:28
  And sometimes you may not know what that is.
• 19:30
  You know, I end up writing a book.
• 19:32
  I never expected to do that. I, I think, I think there,
• 19:35
  there's a, a ton of wisdom in what you're saying, right, Which
• 19:38
  is, you know, I think and I something that I've learned as
• 19:42
  I've gotten older, I think human beings naturally need purpose.
• 19:46
  I think you need a reason to get up in the morning.
• 19:50
  You can have a billion dollars and you're going to get bored.
• 19:54
  I swear to God I've seen this happen, you know, with, with
• 19:57
  higher net worth people. You know, you can have all the
• 20:01
  money in the world and within six months you will get tired
• 20:05
  of, of, of, of vacationing. Yeah, I think human beings need
• 20:10
  naturally are builders. They need to build.
• 20:13
  They need a purpose. They need it's not the
• 20:15
  destination, it's the journey. And that's what I've seen and
• 20:19
  experienced. Absolutely.
• 20:22
  It's about growing, growing and evolving on the journey and the
• 20:26
  journey changes. It has lots of twists and turns.
• 20:29
  The the end destination is not something you can always define
• 20:32
  at the beginning of the journey, but it is a journey in life and
• 20:39
  you've got to be contributing, You got to be growing and
• 20:41
  evolving and you know if you're stagnant, it's not going to be a
• 20:47
  very exciting life. No, I completely agree,
• 20:51
  completely agree with you. So we, we covered, you know, you
• 20:55
  know, the essentially, you know why Bitcoin isn't, isn't
• 20:59
  performing. And my question to you is, Paul,
• 21:02
  I know that you're not in this business anymore, but if you
• 21:05
  were in this business and people were to ask you, hey, you know,
• 21:10
  you know what, what percentage of My Portfolio should I be
• 21:12
  allocating to Bitcoin? And we'll go through the
• 21:16
  different demographics of our audience.
• 21:17
  So majority of our audience are between the ages of 45 and 55.
• 21:22
  Second biggest majority are 35 and 45.
• 21:25
  So let's go through like the different demographics, because
• 21:27
  I think depending on the, on your age, the strategies change,
• 21:31
  right? So let's start with 45 and 55,
• 21:34
  right? If you're, if you're between the
• 21:36
  ages of 45 and 55, Paul and someone came up to you and said,
• 21:39
  Hey, listen, you know, I have an, I have an, I have a four O
• 21:43
  1K. You know, I have some equities,
• 21:45
  I have some stocks. I'm looking at Bitcoin and I'm
• 21:48
  looking to, you know, potentially put my, put Bitcoin
• 21:52
  into my, into my savings or into my, you know, my, my, my, my
• 21:57
  nest egg. What advice would you give them
• 22:00
  and let's, you know, apply some of what Sailor was saying from,
• 22:04
  you know, the, the calculator that he put together, you know,
• 22:07
  would you say put 100%, sell all of your real estate, sell all of
• 22:12
  your equities, go straight up 100% into Bitcoin?
• 22:17
  You know what? What recommendation would you
• 22:19
  give someone between the ages of 45 and 55?
• 22:23
  Yeah. And so it's a great question.
• 22:25
  And the issue is if you understand it enough and you do
• 22:29
  not have to be an economist to understand it, if you understand
• 22:33
  it enough and assess it compared to the other alternatives, then
• 22:37
  you can make a decision that when things don't go the way you
• 22:41
  want them to and we have huge draw downs, you stick with it
• 22:47
  and you stick according to the plan.
• 22:49
  If on the other hand, and you see this in trad fight, you
• 22:52
  know, and I saw it many times in my career, when the shit hits
• 22:56
  the fan and it doesn't go, you make an emotional decision and
• 23:00
  you pull out and you lock in your loss and your toast.
• 23:04
  And so, you know, people have to either have the education or the
• 23:08
  emotional ability to stand through the difficult times
• 23:13
  because we're going to have them, you know, Bitcoin cycles
• 23:17
  are there, whether they're going to change and grow and and
• 23:20
  shift, that's certainly possible.
• 23:23
  But we're going to have drawdowns.
• 23:24
  It's still a relatively new and volatile asset.
• 23:27
  So the more you learn and the more you understand.
• 23:30
  And frankly, that was the biggest value I did to most of
• 23:33
  my clients, which is not having to make emotional decisions.
• 23:37
  So, you know, shows like yours and many others that help people
• 23:43
  understand are going to help people who go and push much more
• 23:48
  of the chips in than seemingly safe 2 or 3% or 4%, which isn't
• 23:54
  going to get them any, you know, that far.
• 23:56
  When you push more of the chips in, you got to understand that
• 23:59
  you're making an intelligent decision, not just a bet.
• 24:03
  When you hope something happens, you know on the next roll of the
• 24:07
  dice. So but, but what would be that
• 24:10
  percentage allocation? Yeah.
• 24:13
  Again, there's a sleep at night principle which I used to tell
• 24:17
  my clients also, if you can't sleep at night, if your
• 24:20
  portfolio drops 10%, then you probably have too much in there.
• 24:25
  Now it may mean you're going to have to work for the rest of
• 24:27
  your life, but you got to make those trade-offs.
• 24:31
  Again, I don't think there's anything at better that's out
• 24:34
  there, assuming you're covering your current and near term cash
• 24:39
  flow, your short and medium terms.
• 24:41
  I mean, you don't put the mortgage money that you have to
• 24:45
  pay the mortgage in tomorrow in Bitcoin.
• 24:48
  You're not going to put your kids college education when you
• 24:51
  got a, you know, take the tuition payment next month in in
• 24:55
  a volatile asset, stocks or anything.
• 24:59
  But you know, I think you can be a lot further in that.
• 25:02
  I know I ever thought I was going to be when you really
• 25:06
  understand it because the other options just aren't that great.
• 25:10
  So, you know, start with five, start with 10, move it to 25,
• 25:14
  move it to 50. And who knows, pretty soon you
• 25:16
  may be, you know, 75% or more. Yeah.
• 25:21
  OK, 75%, you heard it. OK, so that that's 45 to 55,
• 25:27
  what about 35 to 45? Does that change?
• 25:34
  Sure, because you've got a longer time horizon.
• 25:37
  You presumably have a career arc in which you are going to be
• 25:42
  continuing to earn money. Now again, if your plan is I,
• 25:47
  you know, I want to be out in five years, that's a different
• 25:51
  animal. That's probably a not a
• 25:55
  realistic expectation no matter what unless you have a lot of
• 25:59
  liquid assets. But you know, if you're earning
• 26:02
  and growing and you plan to raise a family and have access
• 26:07
  more than you spend, then you know the fluctuation from year
• 26:13
  to year and four year cycles or 10 year cycles don't really
• 26:16
  matter. Yeah, you can.
• 26:19
  Be you can be full in. OK, 100%.
• 26:24
  And then all right, so Opti this question to you 25 to 35, my
• 26:28
  friend, what percentage allocation?
• 26:32
  Literally everything you have besides paying your bills and
• 26:36
  your rent and your groceries should be in Bitcoin.
• 26:40
  If you're look, I have friends that you know, they're in their
• 26:44
  mid 20s and most of them have no money.
• 26:48
  A lot of them have decent jobs, but they still kind of are
• 26:52
  caught in the consumerist paycheck to paycheck mindset
• 26:56
  where they get some money and they buy something cool so that
• 26:58
  they feel good about themselves. And they'll look at me all the
• 27:02
  time and be like, bro, like, why aren't you buying things?
• 27:05
  I like, I know you have, I know you have a, you know, some
• 27:07
  Bitcoin, you're probably doing pretty well for yourself.
• 27:10
  And I'm like, what, what like, why do I need this?
• 27:12
  Like, you know, Nico makes fun of me for my truck.
• 27:14
  My truck's a beater and like I can fully get a new truck, but
• 27:18
  I'm just like, why would I need it?
• 27:19
  It gets me from point A to point B Like there's no need for this
• 27:22
  stuff for me right now. And looking like I just keep
• 27:26
  thinking long term. Like one of my biggest fears is
• 27:28
  literally I have two huge fears. One is being an old guy with bad
• 27:31
  posture. That's like 1, you know, my big
• 27:33
  personal fear is being a hunchback.
• 27:35
  Yeah, exactly. Sit up better as on the street.
• 27:37
  Like that's one of my fears, being an old guy with really bad
• 27:40
  posture. And, and the second one is
• 27:43
  literally like having to work, you know, at McDonald's when I'm
• 27:46
  like 65 years old. And so everything I do is
• 27:49
  essentially thinking long term, will I have some savings when
• 27:53
  I'm, when I'm old? But I, I do like what Paul said
• 27:56
  because I've been saying this, I, I know guys are, are like,
• 27:59
  you know, this is the exercise we've done in this class and
• 28:01
  plenty of times guys. But one of the things I always
• 28:04
  say is the same thing. It's like, I think I
• 28:07
  fundamentally don't believe in retirement.
• 28:09
  I've seen a lot of people, a lot of my dad's friends that, you
• 28:13
  know, they hit the 6570 years old, they have some money.
• 28:17
  They, you know, they've been working their whole life to
• 28:19
  retire And then they go downhill very quickly after, you know,
• 28:24
  like 2 to three years and then, you know, they're 6 feet deep
• 28:27
  like five years later and you're like, this guy seemed very
• 28:30
  healthy. He seemed on top of his game.
• 28:32
  And then right when they they retired, it just went all
• 28:35
  downhill because they didn't have a purpose.
• 28:36
  And we've seen this kind of play out in studies as well that
• 28:40
  when, you know, senior citizens or elderly people don't have
• 28:44
  kind of like something I don't, I don't really believe in
• 28:50
  electric cars, bro. But you know, you know, you
• 28:52
  that's a totally different topic.
• 28:54
  But one thing that we did see is via studies is like, if you are,
• 28:58
  you know, at retirement age and you don't have at the very least
• 29:01
  some kind of mental hobby to keep your mind sharp, you start
• 29:05
  to devolve very quickly. And it's incredible that we have
• 29:09
  this data here. And, you know, if I'm young,
• 29:11
  like I'm young, I'm, I'm in my mid 30s here.
• 29:13
  And like, it's very interesting to look at that sailor chart and
• 29:17
  everyone's saying like, oh, you know, saying you can retire on
• 29:20
  .1 Bitcoin is damaging the space.
• 29:22
  This is helping him. If you look at that chart, it
• 29:24
  said .1 Bitcoin by 2045. That's, you know, what, 20 years
• 29:28
  from now, if you're around my age, that is a good retirement.
• 29:32
  We have the BlackRock data that says most people retire or need
• 29:35
  about $2,000,000 to retire. So like, look, if Bitcoin does
• 29:39
  what we think it does, I think even the small amounts of
• 29:42
  Bitcoin that you may think you have will be enough to retire.
• 29:46
  And the whole name of the game is just trying to acquire as
• 29:48
  much Bitcoin as possible. Obviously, if you're young, live
• 29:51
  below your means, you don't, you don't need to flaunt your
• 29:53
  wealth. You don't need to buy these, you
• 29:55
  know, social status symbols so that like you look wealthy.
• 29:58
  All you need to do is try to save as much Bitcoin as possible
• 30:02
  and you're going to win long term.
• 30:03
  The real take away to all of this data, I think is there is
• 30:07
  no such thing as retirement for us young people.
• 30:10
  If you are saving in Fiat, that's just like the big
• 30:13
  elephant in the room. There's no way to retire if you
• 30:15
  are saving in Fiat. And for us, yes, I have a bias
• 30:18
  here and of course I'm going to confirm my own bias.
• 30:21
  I only believe in the data that confirms my own bias.
• 30:23
  Guys, come on. Like I, I'm just like everyone
• 30:25
  else, but you need to have Bitcoin to retire.
• 30:28
  And the name of the game is get as much Bitcoin as you can.
• 30:31
  And so I did see a really good thread yesterday on Twitter.
• 30:35
  And it's like, look, you can get kind of caught up And actually
• 30:37
  this is going to go really good into what we're going to talk in
• 30:39
  the culture with Paul about this book he's wrote.
• 30:42
  Is this idea that like, if you get caught up in the game of
• 30:45
  just trying to get as much Bitcoin as possible, you're
• 30:48
  still kind of stuck in the same Fiat mindset is like, what's the
• 30:51
  goal of your wealth in the long term?
• 30:53
  Like, why do you need to require, you know, 1000 in
• 30:56
  Bitcoin if you're just going to like sit on it and not do
• 30:58
  anything with it? Like, what's the point of this
• 31:01
  wealth that you're trying to acquire?
• 31:02
  Is it just to live a good life, you know, be be by the beach,
• 31:05
  you know, and enjoy your life, Or is it, you know, you want to
• 31:08
  be in a penthouse? Like, as long as you make these
• 31:10
  these decisions and you know what you want, then you'll know
• 31:13
  how much Bitcoin you need. So I love that, you know, Paul
• 31:16
  is confirming my own bias, that maybe I am a little wiser beyond
• 31:20
  my years because I've been saying the same thing for a long
• 31:23
  time. I also dropped I dropped AI
• 31:26
  dropped a poll in the chat I said you Dan should buy Opti at
• 31:30
  model 3 and the maturity. Everyone say yes 52.
• 31:35
  Percent of you guys have said no.
• 31:37
  So wow, you all right? Let's stop the show, you guys.
• 31:42
  I do want to give, I do want to give a shout out to the live
• 31:45
  stream guys. We had some technical
• 31:46
  difficulties with Rumble. It wasn't Opti's fault today, so
• 31:50
  shout out to the Twitter live stream 1227 and 526 of you guys
• 31:59
  watching live on YouTube. If you guys are enjoying the
• 32:01
  show so far, make sure to smash that like button.
• 32:04
  What 132 likes on YouTube alone? Help us break 200 likes by the
• 32:09
  time we get to the 45 minute mark.
• 32:11
  So smash that like button. We're at 50% right now, Opti 50%
• 32:15
  of the polls. I think you should get a Tesla
• 32:18
  Model 3 and 50% believe no. So wow, people don't want you to
• 32:30
  get free things, man. So guys, we got a loaded show
• 32:34
  for you guys today. It's going to be absolutely
• 32:37
  amazing. We have a clip of Gary Gensler.
• 32:40
  It's so weird. The legacy financial media has
• 32:43
  brought on Janet Yellen and Gary Gensler, you know, to, to ask
• 32:48
  for their comment. They're not even in government
• 32:50
  anymore. What's going on?
• 32:53
  Donald Trump and the Fed are fighting.
• 32:57
  Trump is calling for the Fed, for for Jerome Powell to be
• 33:01
  fired. It's absolute mayhem.
• 33:03
  Bananas. And of course, during the
• 33:06
  culture segment, we're going to take advantage of the fact that
• 33:08
  we got Paul Rogers in the house. He's the author of Money, Love
• 33:13
  and Bitcoin. Before we went on air, we were
• 33:16
  starting to talk about some of these topics and they were
• 33:18
  absolutely fascinating. So you guys are going to want to
• 33:21
  stick around. It's going to be an incredible
• 33:22
  show. Smash that like button.
• 33:25
  Someone in the chat says Opti deserves more than a Tesla.
• 33:29
  I 100% agree with that. But apparently.
• 33:32
  You just a fanboy though. Apparently you guys don't agree
• 33:36
  with that. Opti is to take a bus.
• 33:41
  Oh my God, poor Opti. All right everybody, I want to
• 33:44
  give a shout out to Simply Bitcoin's lead sponsor.
• 33:46
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• 33:48
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• 36:12
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• 36:13
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  titanium. At the time of recording, the
• 38:07
  Bitcoin price is literally flat at $85,000.
• 38:11
  Block height 892,863 sats per dollar 1176 market cap 1.69
• 38:19
  trillion Bitcoin versus gold market cap 7.17.17 percent
• 38:25
  Percentage issued 94.53% Declined from all time high
• 38:29
  -22.1% Realized monetary inflation .85%.
• 38:36
  In the grand scheme of things, Bitcoin is just getting the
• 38:39
  party started. Anyways, I have a video of you
• 38:42
  guys. I have a video for you guys of
• 38:44
  Gary Genzer on Legacy Financial Media.
• 38:46
  I don't know why they bring this guy on still, but they do.
• 38:49
  Let's check out the flip and then we'll talk about it.
• 38:52
  This is a very small part of the financial markets, but if you
• 38:55
  were interested in this, think about every financial asset sort
• 39:01
  of trades on a bit of fundamentals and sentiment.
• 39:06
  But this field is almost 99 or maybe 1 might say 100% sentiment
• 39:14
  and very little on fundamentals. And while something like Bitcoin
• 39:18
  may persist for a long time because there's 7 billion people
• 39:22
  around the globe a real keen interest in it, there's 10 or
• 39:26
  15,000 others of these tokens. And to think through your own
• 39:30
  risk, your own personal risk about where are the fundamentals
• 39:35
  and if this is just about sentiment, then generally those
• 39:39
  don't end up well and most then go down.
• 39:44
  Are you talking you're contrasting Bitcoin with the
• 39:47
  other ones or you're just they're all the same?
• 39:51
  Joe, I'm glad that you spoke up because I know you're a bit of a
• 39:54
  Bitcoin enthusiast and and think less well of the rest of those.
• 40:01
  It's how you and I have always connected in the green rooms.
• 40:04
  But think of these 10 or 10 or 15,000 other tokens and just on
• 40:09
  the economics, just on the fundamentals, what are the
• 40:12
  fundamentals? No, I know, but that was my
• 40:14
  question. You throw Bitcoin in with with
• 40:16
  the rest of them. Or do you think Bitcoin is is
• 40:19
  different than is qualitatively different than the others?
• 40:23
  I, I think there's, there's the distinction is similar to in in
• 40:30
  metals, there's only two or three precious metals.
• 40:33
  We humans have a certain fascination with two or three
• 40:36
  precious metals like gold. I don't think we humans will
• 40:40
  have a fascination with 10 or 15,000 meme or sentiment tokens
• 40:46
  trade. So Gary Genzer, Bitcoin Maxi,
• 40:52
  confirmed. Gary Gensler's a Bitcoin maxi.
• 40:57
  Opti's totally vindicated. Yeah, I mean, bro, but like, I
• 41:01
  would say, fine. OK, Look, talk is cheap.
• 41:05
  Actions are expensive. During the previous
• 41:08
  administration, the Bitcoin industry got attacked left and
• 41:11
  right, including by the SEC. The SEC had a lot of cases and
• 41:17
  they were just attacking our industry, man.
• 41:19
  So yeah, like it. It sounds nice.
• 41:21
  Sounds great, but you know, talk is cheap, actions are expensive.
• 41:28
  That's not what I saw during the previous administration,
• 41:30
  specifically the behavior from the SEC.
• 41:33
  Now what we got, and again, you know, the pendulum swings hard
• 41:37
  is we got like complete laissez faire, you know, the, the, the
• 41:42
  present is dropping meme coins and including the president of
• 41:46
  Argentina. So like it's swung in the other
• 41:49
  direction, which I could you can make an argument is not good
• 41:53
  too. If I had a choice between like
• 41:56
  total, just, you know, free market, even the president is
• 42:00
  going to launch a meme coin or our industry getting attacked.
• 42:03
  I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to choose complete laissez
• 42:06
  faire. You know, anything goes rather
• 42:09
  than a regulatory crackdown, which we got, you know, we got
• 42:13
  the freedom of Ross. The end of operation took .2
• 42:15
  point O the repeal of SAB 121. Like so yeah, like it's, it's
• 42:21
  nice to hear from Gary Genser. But they had four years.
• 42:24
  They had four years and they had the opportunity to win another
• 42:28
  election and continue a lot of the Biden policies under Kamala
• 42:32
  Harris. And you know, people just didn't
• 42:34
  want that. And and again, from a political
• 42:37
  perspective, that's not the point of this show.
• 42:39
  That's not why you guys tune into Simply Bitcoin.
• 42:41
  We only started talking about it when our we felt the industry
• 42:45
  was under attack and it clearly was last year.
• 42:49
  And of course that, like, you know, it forced Bitcoiners to
• 42:53
  throw our political hat in the ring.
• 42:55
  Now we have a seat at the table. If you don't have a seat at the
• 42:57
  table, you're not in the deal, you're not in the room, you're
• 42:59
  not in the deal. Now we're in the room, which is
• 43:01
  great. You know, you have David Bailey,
• 43:03
  you have Michael Saylor going to the White House.
• 43:05
  This is a much better position from a regulatory perspective
• 43:08
  than we were last year. But again, it's it's complete.
• 43:12
  It's it's it's a shit coin extravaganza.
• 43:14
  It's Bitcoin and shit coin extravaganza.
• 43:16
  Now, to be fair, the strategic Bitcoin reserve was just that, a
• 43:20
  strategic Bitcoin reserve. And then the all coins are in a
• 43:24
  stockpile, whatever the F that means.
• 43:27
  So yeah, I mean, it's great. It's it's good, but talk is
• 43:32
  cheap, Gary, Talk is cheap. You had four effing years.
• 43:35
  You had four years, bro. You could have protected us.
• 43:38
  You could have been like, you know what, let's go after the
• 43:40
  altcoins. All coins are security.
• 43:42
  Let's protect Bitcoin, leave Bitcoin alone.
• 43:45
  But that's not what happened. That's not what happened.
• 43:47
  The developers were arrested like the mining industry was
• 43:50
  attacked. You know, all these like all
• 43:53
  these exchange CEO Arthur Hayes, CZ all of them arrested, you
• 43:58
  know, like it was just it was gnarly.
• 44:01
  It was the other extreme, right? So why does everything have to
• 44:04
  be so extreme? Why can't it be some like happy
• 44:07
  medium? You know, it has to be either
• 44:10
  the president launching meme coins or we go to jail.
• 44:13
  Like why can't it be in the middle?
• 44:16
  I don't know why. Anyhow, I'm going to open it up.
• 44:19
  And again, like it one extreme isn't better than the other
• 44:22
  because like if you have like complete, like president is
• 44:25
  going to launch meme coins. Like look at what happen to the
• 44:28
  Trump coin. It like it dropped like 70%.
• 44:31
  Now, was Trump 100% behind the Trump coin?
• 44:34
  I don't think so. I think someone pitched him the
• 44:36
  idea. He'll say, yeah, that sounds
• 44:37
  cool. He's a 78 year old man.
• 44:40
  Like, what does he know? So like, you know, this is nuts.
• 44:46
  Gary Gensler, a little too late, man.
• 44:49
  You had the opportunity to speak up and protect us and you didn't
• 44:52
  do it. Gary, What are your thoughts,
• 44:54
  Paul? Yeah, well, you know it.
• 44:58
  First of all, it's a damn shame that we care what any of them
• 45:02
  have to say and that they can have so much influence on the
• 45:06
  markets and the economy and our life savings.
• 45:09
  So that's problem we got to fix the beginning.
• 45:12
  But, you know, it ultimately depends on are you trying to
• 45:15
  walk into a crypto casino and hit Black 36 and walk away with
• 45:20
  a big payoff, you know, just at a luck or extraction?
• 45:25
  Are you really looking for a whole new base layer of money
• 45:29
  for the global financial system? And, you know, it's pretty clear
• 45:35
  which one meets the criteria of a potential global monetary
• 45:40
  system and all the others that don't even pretend to do that
• 45:44
  and never will. So, you know, if you look at it
• 45:48
  that way, yeah, Gary should have been a lot clearer.
• 45:52
  Everyone should have been a lot clearer.
• 45:55
  But you know, we live in a world where people want to protect
• 45:58
  their asses and they want to protect the system they've got
• 46:01
  and their friends and their cronies and the existing Fiat
• 46:04
  structure. And so you get decisions that
• 46:07
  look like what we've gotten until the winds change.
• 46:10
  And clearly the the winds have changed, even though you still
• 46:14
  got the crypto casinos going on. Yeah, that's it.
• 46:17
  Great, great, great take from Paul Opti.
• 46:20
  You know, this is your buddy. You put up the ticker.
• 46:23
  You said Opti was vindicated. Oh, yeah, Opti was Opti's taking
• 46:28
  over the show. No, I don't know where you put
• 46:30
  the ticker, but the point is, you said Opti was right.
• 46:33
  Gary Genzer's a maxi. I mean, bro, for him being a
• 46:36
  maxi bro, like, he kind of let us down, dude.
• 46:39
  Like I mean. Look, look, look.
• 46:41
  You know, when I first said this, I was, I was like
• 46:44
  legitimately trolling. Obviously in hindsight, you, you
• 46:49
  can make, you know, you can spend whatever narrative you
• 46:51
  want. That's what I was doing.
• 46:53
  But if you listen to that clip, it does sound like he knows
• 46:57
  exactly the difference between Bitcoin and all the other shit
• 47:00
  coins. And this is kind of where I was
• 47:02
  basing my, you know, my, my, my troll this whole time.
• 47:06
  He taught a class at MIT on Bitcoin and blockchain.
• 47:09
  He was obviously very, very aware.
• 47:12
  And when Gary Gensler got put into the head of the Seca lot of
• 47:16
  Bitcoiners were very excited about this because they knew
• 47:19
  that he was teaching about it. So they thought that he'd
• 47:21
  actually have, you know, maybe more of a nuanced take on this.
• 47:25
  Now, granted, Nico, you are right, there was a lot of bad
• 47:28
  things that he did. But if you look back in
• 47:31
  hindsight, again, this is this is all in hindsight.
• 47:35
  It is very, very interesting when you kind of compare the
• 47:39
  difference between what Gary did and what we're seeing now is
• 47:42
  like, if you do kind of go with the assumption that he was a
• 47:45
  Bitcoin maxi, then a lot of the, the stonewalling and the and the
• 47:50
  feet dragon that we saw around the Bitcoin ETF would lead me to
• 47:53
  believe that maybe he was kind of slow walking the big ETF
• 47:57
  because he was trying to find a way to figure out how not to
• 48:01
  unleash all of the shit coins in ETFs, which now this is where we
• 48:04
  are. So like, I do agree with you,
• 48:05
  Nico, on the one hand, it's like, yes, what I'd rather have,
• 48:08
  you know, a SEC that is kind of walking on egg shells and being
• 48:13
  like, OK, this Bitcoin thing's good and everything else is kind
• 48:15
  of bad. Now we kind of have to dampen
• 48:17
  this Bitcoin thing so that everything else doesn't get in
• 48:19
  the door or essentially just like unleash the the floodgates
• 48:22
  here and be like, it's all free game.
• 48:25
  Bitcoin's going to win on its own merits.
• 48:27
  And hey, if you want to gamble on some shit coins, like you're
• 48:30
  going to get wrecked. But you know, in hindsight, just
• 48:32
  for entertainment purposes, I think Gary Ginser is a maxi as
• 48:36
  you can see here. And I think the real signal here
• 48:38
  was what he said to Joe Kernan about like, this is where we
• 48:42
  bonded in the green room about this.
• 48:44
  So it seems like publicly he was saying what needed to be said to
• 48:48
  kind of protect his job. And privately he's like, yeah,
• 48:52
  it's Bitcoin. Obviously it's Bitcoin.
• 48:53
  But when I go out there, I can't really say that because we
• 48:56
  weren't in a in an environment, a political environment, you
• 49:00
  know, like a public consensus environment.
• 49:04
  As Niko like to say, the Overton window wasn't shifted enough
• 49:06
  where he could just go full Bitcoin.
• 49:08
  But you know, obviously, Niko, you are right.
• 49:10
  Like actions are louder than words.
• 49:12
  But you know, I, I, I love, I love taking this moment for a
• 49:16
  victory lap and dunking on Niko and being like, I was right.
• 49:18
  You know Gary Gensler was a Bitcoin match, No?
• 49:21
  No he wasn't dude. No that dude talk is so cheap.
• 49:25
  No like no dude under his watch the SEC was terrible towards our
• 49:30
  industry. It was it was horrible that
• 49:32
  that's not if he was a maxi, he would not have allowed that to
• 49:36
  happen. Or you could make the argument
• 49:39
  that there was that much pressure from the White House.
• 49:41
  But regardless, he was the head of the SEC.
• 49:43
  Look, we went from 1 extreme to the other because of how extreme
• 49:49
  they made it in the first place. Look, a year, less than a year
• 49:53
  ago, if you go from a year like April of 2024, Bitcoiners did
• 50:00
  not give a flying F about who was in the White House.
• 50:03
  We were in our own little bubble, right?
• 50:05
  It wasn't until the Samurai guys got put in a box that enough of
• 50:12
  us got pissed off where, you know, someone's saying, I'm
• 50:16
  saying lais I fare wrong, Lais I fare, Lais I fare.
• 50:21
  There you go. Happy now?
• 50:23
  So enough of us got pissed off that you know, we, we were
• 50:29
  forced to do something. I'm also getting pressure to
• 50:33
  shill our sub stack, which I'm going to do right now.
• 50:36
  So guys, we do have a sub stack. It's awesome.
• 50:40
  Some pretty cool writings have been dropping from it.
• 50:45
  Go check it out. Search simply Bitcoin on sub
• 50:49
  stack and you'll find it. And some of the latest writings
• 50:52
  have been pretty, pretty cool. So go check it out.
• 50:56
  Opti does all the thumbnails so if you dislike the thumbnails
• 51:00
  just make sure to DM Opti on why.
• 51:03
  Am I getting thrown under the bus all day?
• 51:05
  This is incredible. This is insane.
• 51:07
  Hashtag free opti. Go check out our thumb stack.
• 51:12
  It's awesome. And of course, smash that like
• 51:15
  button if you guys are enjoying the show.
• 51:16
  I'm just kidding Opti. Let's take a look at Opti's
• 51:19
  poll. Let's see how it's doing.
• 51:23
  Let's check it out. Here we go.
• 51:25
  Do you think I should buy Opti a model?
• 51:27
  353% have said yes. Opti 53% for some reason.
• 51:34
  I'm 51% attacking the YouTube chat today.
• 51:37
  This is like a, this is like a presidential election.
• 51:40
  It's going down the line, 47% of you guys.
• 51:43
  What's wrong with you? I would think it's 100%.
• 51:48
  They don't like electric vehicles.
• 51:50
  They don't like electric. Vehicles why?
• 51:52
  Why do you not want often you to get a nice new car?
• 51:55
  I don't understand keep. It rolling, Keep it rolling.
• 51:57
  You can only take so much, you know?
• 51:59
  Keep it rolling. 2000 of you guys watching live, you guys
• 52:02
  enjoying the show so far? Smash that like button.
• 52:04
  We're on the verge of breaking 200 likes.
• 52:06
  I'm going to move the goal up 250 likes by the time the show
• 52:09
  and smash that like button. We have tons to talk about.
• 52:12
  We're going to hit the new segment.
• 52:13
  We will be right back. We have tons to talk about.
• 52:15
  Let's check it out. I want to give a shout out to
• 52:19
  our sponsor Casa. Casa makes self custody easy and
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  secure. As a bitcoiner I care about
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  I want to give a shout out to our partner coin kite.
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  the best Bitcoin hardware wallet on the market to take self
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  the MK4. Head over to coldcard.com today
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  and use promo code simply to get 5% off anything on the store.
• 54:26
  All right everybody, this is Opti and he's currently modeling
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  the most beautiful, the best, the best hardware wallet in the
• 54:32
  Bitcoin industry. The cold card Q, it is
• 54:37
  incredibly easy to use. It has an A-Z keyboard, has a
• 54:42
  battery pack in the back. It allows you to scan Bitcoin
• 54:47
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• 54:50
  little tap with an NFC chip you can do it.
• 54:54
  You can do it with a USB. It's incredibly easy.
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  Highly recommend it. Get the MK4 or the Q use promo
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  code simply to get 5% off anything on the cold card dot
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  com store all right, everybody, let's get to today's news.
• 55:08
  We have tons to talk about and breaking it.
• 55:13
  It seems like Opti will be getting a Tesla 53% holding
• 55:17
  strong 53%. So what is?
• 55:21
  Actually I like my truck though, but you know, whatever.
• 55:24
  What? All right, so Opti, the truck.
• 55:26
  Opti just confirmed. Opti is keeping the truck.
• 55:29
  I'm ending the pole. All right, All right.
• 55:31
  Confirmed. Change the pole to a Lambo and
• 55:33
  see how that changes the numbers.
• 55:35
  Yeah, it's 'cause they don't like Tesla, Nico.
• 55:38
  They don't like Yeah, based on the spreadsheets earlier, you
• 55:43
  know you can afford it, so. I don't have, I don't have any
• 55:48
  Bitcoin, right? I don't know what you're talking
• 55:49
  about. Yeah, we're Larping here.
• 55:51
  We don't know Bitcoin. Yeah, oh, we also got, we also
• 55:55
  got Klesh in the chat. Huge YouTube man.
• 55:58
  Thank you for joining us bro. I appreciate it.
• 56:00
  Anyhow, Panama City approves Bitcoin and crypto payments for
• 56:05
  taxes, fees and permits. Let's check it out.
• 56:08
  And yet another milestone for Bitcoin adoption in Latam the
• 56:12
  Panama. The Panama City Council has
• 56:14
  voted to approve the acceptance of Bitcoin and other digital
• 56:17
  currencies for municipal services, making it the first
• 56:21
  public institution in the country to do so.
• 56:24
  The news was announced by Panama City Mayor Mashrashi on X, who
• 56:31
  stated quote Panama City Council has just voted in favor of
• 56:34
  becoming the first public institution of government to
• 56:37
  accept payments in crypto. Citizens will now be able to pay
• 56:40
  taxes, fees, tickets, and permits entirely in crypto,
• 56:43
  starting with BTC, ETH, USDC, and USDTE.
• 56:48
  This decision sets Panama's on a more progressive path, enabling
• 56:51
  residents to interact with their local government using Bitcoin
• 56:55
  for everyday transactions. The governor also explained how
• 56:59
  this was achieved without the need for new legislation, a
• 57:02
  hurdle that had stalled previous efforts.
• 57:05
  Quote, prior administrations tried to push a bill in the
• 57:08
  Senate to make this possible, but we found a simple way to do
• 57:11
  it without new legislation. Legally, public institutions
• 57:14
  must receive funds in dollars, so we partner with a bank who
• 57:17
  will take care of the transaction receiving in crypto
• 57:20
  and convert on spot to dollars. This allows for the free flow of
• 57:24
  crypto in the entire economy and entire government.
• 57:27
  So pretty, pretty cool stuff. But again, you know, why would
• 57:32
  you pay your taxes and Bitcoin if you could just do it in Fiat?
• 57:37
  Also across the pond, U.S. policy on stable coins more
• 57:41
  dangerous than tariffs. It goes on to say the US policy
• 57:45
  on stable coins offers European citizens an attractive payment
• 57:48
  method for cross-border transactions, which should
• 57:51
  trigger more concern than trade tariff.
• 57:54
  It's Italy's economy, Mr. said Minister said on Tuesday,
• 57:58
  addressing an event in Milan on asset management.
• 58:02
  European authorities should adopt further steps to boost the
• 58:06
  status of the euro as an international reference currency
• 58:10
  and complained about the fragmentation of the EU payment
• 58:13
  system. U.S.
• 58:14
  President Donald Trump has pledged to overhaul rules on
• 58:17
  cryptocurrencies and reverse a crackdown on the sector that
• 58:20
  took place under his predecessor Joe Biden.
• 58:24
  Dollar peg stable coins, which are a type of cryptocurrencies
• 58:26
  designed to maintain a constant value, have ballooned in recent
• 58:30
  years. I can't echo this enough guys.
• 58:32
  The the amount of stable coin, whether Opti likes this or not,
• 58:36
  but it's just the reality. The amount of stable coin
• 58:38
  adoption that is happening in the developing world, in the
• 58:41
  global S is massive. It's huge.
• 58:46
  And it's because for the first time, people have access to what
• 58:51
  they perceive is a stable. Think about it, in the US, we
• 58:57
  know that the dollar ain't stable.
• 58:58
  It's going down forever and purchasing power.
• 59:01
  But if you live in a country with double, triple, double
• 59:04
  digit inflation, if you're dealing with ten 2030%
• 59:07
  inflation, you know, like you need to seek an alternative to
• 59:12
  survive. You know, a stable coin is a
• 59:14
  godsend, right? And that's why I believe you're
• 59:17
  having so much stablecoin adoption in the developing world
• 59:19
  in the global S. But I do believe it is a
• 59:22
  stepping stone towards Bitcoin because it gets their feet wet
• 59:26
  with digital with a digital wallet, a digital assets in the
• 59:30
  1st place. And then they'll come to the
• 59:32
  same realizations that we've come to in the West.
• 59:34
  Even if you live in Europe, even if you live in in the US, you're
• 59:36
  like the dollar's a scam, right? So eventually I think that
• 59:39
  realization is going to happen worldwide anyways.
• 59:42
  The general focus these these days is on the impact of trade
• 59:45
  tariffs. However, even more dangerous is
• 59:47
  the new US policy on crypto currencies and in particular
• 59:51
  that on dollar denominated stablecoin.
• 59:53
  So if you break it down where the two, you know, continents
• 59:58
  are going, Europe is doubling down on central bank digital
• 1:00:02
  currencies. That's what they want.
• 1:00:04
  They've said that that. The, you know, the head of the
• 1:00:09
  European Central Bank, Christine Lagarde, it's all about the CBD
• 1:00:12
  CS, they're doubling down on that.
• 1:00:14
  And the US is taking a different approach.
• 1:00:17
  The Trump administration, one of the first executive orders
• 1:00:20
  explicitly forbading the government from releasing a
• 1:00:24
  central bank digital currency, Also very pro Bitcoin, pro
• 1:00:29
  stable coin regulation. So the US is going down the
• 1:00:33
  stable coin route, which in my opinion it's just an extension
• 1:00:37
  of the dollar. Stable coins don't give you
• 1:00:39
  censorship resistance. Stable coins don't give you
• 1:00:44
  inflation proof money. It's the same thing essentially
• 1:00:48
  right? If you know if they want to
• 1:00:50
  freeze your account, they can freeze your account.
• 1:00:53
  If you have, if you have stable coins, if you have whatever one
• 1:00:56
  of the two circle or the Gemini dollar, the tether, whatever,
• 1:01:00
  and for whatever reason, you know, a, a, a regulatory
• 1:01:04
  regulatory body is like freeze that personally count.
• 1:01:07
  They could totally do that, right?
• 1:01:08
  So it's not immune from politics at all and it's not immune from
• 1:01:14
  inflation, right. But if you've been living with,
• 1:01:18
  again, if you've been living in, in, you know, where I'm
• 1:01:20
  originally from, Venezuela, or if you live in Zimbabwe, you
• 1:01:24
  know, you're dealing with double digit inflation.
• 1:01:26
  You know, a dollar is a whole lot better than your local
• 1:01:29
  currency. That's the reality, right?
• 1:01:32
  And then so you're really seeing two different approaches.
• 1:01:35
  The United States is doubling down on stable coins.
• 1:01:38
  That's how they see the spread of the dollar worldwide.
• 1:01:42
  It's working. That policy is working.
• 1:01:44
  And then what Europe is heading down the path that Europe is
• 1:01:47
  heading down is doubling down on the CDC.
• 1:01:49
  I think it's going to be an absolute catastrophic failure.
• 1:01:52
  And instead of politicians looking within and asking
• 1:01:54
  themselves, hey, why are people not using CDC, I think what
• 1:01:59
  they're going to do is they're just going to lash out and
• 1:02:01
  they're going to blame people for, you know, for for choosing
• 1:02:04
  an alternative. I mean, that's exactly what
• 1:02:06
  happened in Nigeria. We gave you guys the example of
• 1:02:08
  Nigeria, right? They launched the CDC, called
• 1:02:10
  the E naira. What happened with the E naira?
• 1:02:13
  No one used it. And when no one was using it,
• 1:02:16
  they literally arrested one of the account, one of the
• 1:02:20
  executive members of finance that was within the country, and
• 1:02:23
  they blamed finance for the failure of their CBDC, which was
• 1:02:27
  not the case. Finance was just an off ramp so
• 1:02:30
  that people could use an alternative right?
• 1:02:33
  Now, how does all this relate to Bitcoin, 'cause I think
• 1:02:36
  eventually, you know, all roads lead to Bitcoin.
• 1:02:40
  It's better money, but I think that if you don't have the
• 1:02:44
  financial privilege of being able to save keyword there,
• 1:02:48
  being able to save, then you know, like you're not really
• 1:02:56
  thinking about putting some money on the side and putting it
• 1:02:59
  into Bitcoin. You're thinking about being able
• 1:03:01
  to put food on the table. And I think this is something
• 1:03:03
  that I caught a lot of Bitcoiners off guard because the
• 1:03:06
  original theory, at least to when I got in, was the
• 1:03:10
  developing world is going to love Bitcoin because it's better
• 1:03:14
  than their local currency. But what actually ended up
• 1:03:17
  happening instead by market forces was the adoption of
• 1:03:22
  stable coins instead. But there is a small adoption
• 1:03:24
  of, of Bitcoin. But I think as time progresses
• 1:03:27
  and people get and all of these economies start to dollarize, I
• 1:03:31
  think more and more people are going to start to wake up and
• 1:03:34
  say, hey, you know what? The dollar was better initially,
• 1:03:37
  but Bitcoin is just better in general, right?
• 1:03:41
  So This is why I say all roads inevitably lead to Bitcoin.
• 1:03:45
  It's a stepping stone in my opinion.
• 1:03:47
  It's a Trojan horse and we're going to see what happens.
• 1:03:52
  But it is really interesting from like a geopolitical
• 1:03:55
  standpoint how the two continents are taking a
• 1:03:57
  different approach, like how Europe is doubling down on this
• 1:04:01
  EDC strategy. For whatever reason.
• 1:04:03
  They think that's a good idea. And then the United States is
• 1:04:06
  like, you know, the stablecoin, which is a more kind of free
• 1:04:08
  market approach, but they're like, oh, the stablecoins is a
• 1:04:10
  good idea. So, Paul, I want to get your
• 1:04:12
  thoughts on this very interesting phenomenons overall.
• 1:04:16
  You know, why? Why?
• 1:04:17
  What is Europe doing? They're they're doubling down on
• 1:04:20
  this idea that requires coercion in order for it to work because
• 1:04:24
  without coercion, people aren't willingly going to use inferior
• 1:04:28
  money. Paul, what's your take?
• 1:04:31
  Well, I, I think it's great TF and it's a great question and
• 1:04:33
  issue. And I think there's two things
• 1:04:35
  here. There is a technology that's
• 1:04:38
  more effective, so people will adopt it.
• 1:04:41
  And again when you, as you pointed out, when you live in
• 1:04:43
  places that do not have a technology of money which is
• 1:04:47
  effective for basic transactions, you seek something
• 1:04:50
  better and a stable coin can do that.
• 1:04:54
  The other side of it though, is money as a control vehicle.
• 1:04:59
  And I think both with stable coins backed by U.S.
• 1:05:03
  Treasuries and the CBDC in Europe, you have to see that
• 1:05:08
  there is still a common thread of control that's that is not
• 1:05:14
  necessarily so different between the two because the biggest
• 1:05:18
  buyer or a huge buyer of U.S. Treasuries now, which the
• 1:05:23
  government needs, the US government needs is stable
• 1:05:26
  coins. So it continues the perpetuation
• 1:05:29
  of dollar hegemony. Now you know a direct CBDC is a
• 1:05:34
  more aggressive control mechanism because it's the
• 1:05:37
  ability to be able to restrict and control digitally how people
• 1:05:43
  use their money. It's more aggressive, but I
• 1:05:45
  think it is a common thread of control.
• 1:05:49
  And if you couple a better technology with less control,
• 1:05:54
  that system is ultimately going to win out, even though as you
• 1:05:57
  say, we may have a transition period for things like stable
• 1:06:01
  coins. Yeah.
• 1:06:03
  But very, very, very good insight from Paul Opti.
• 1:06:07
  What's your take on this brother?
• 1:06:09
  Yeah. So first of all, to kind of jump
• 1:06:11
  off your last point, Nico, I think the very interesting part
• 1:06:13
  about these two different news stories and we're and we're
• 1:06:15
  seeing more and more news stories kind of come out in a
• 1:06:17
  very similar vein is the geopolitical ramifications that
• 1:06:20
  we're seeing right now. It's like we're seeing, you
• 1:06:23
  know, Europe and the EU essentially do whatever they can
• 1:06:27
  to spite Trump, but in reality, they're just kind of hurting
• 1:06:30
  themselves. And it's kind of really sad to
• 1:06:32
  see them, you know, go down this path.
• 1:06:34
  But I'm, I'm obviously not surprised at this point from
• 1:06:37
  everything we've been seeing and covering the last couple of
• 1:06:38
  years. It's not surprising on that
• 1:06:40
  front. But it is interesting to see the
• 1:06:42
  game theory, global game theory play out here.
• 1:06:44
  Where as Trump came out and endorsed Bitcoin and talked
• 1:06:48
  about a strategic Bitcoin reserve and being the Bitcoin
• 1:06:50
  superpower of the world, we're seeing some countries very
• 1:06:54
  clearly look into Bitcoin, maybe objectively in some sense, or at
• 1:06:59
  least looking at it in a way where how can this actually
• 1:07:02
  benefit our country, benefit our people?
• 1:07:04
  And you love to see it. Obviously, Buchelli was the one
• 1:07:06
  to initially kick that first domino.
• 1:07:09
  And now we're seeing that other countries are taking it very
• 1:07:11
  seriously. We know the Czech Republic is,
• 1:07:13
  is, I think, kind of very innovative there and there and
• 1:07:16
  they're kind of taking the charge there.
• 1:07:18
  And hopefully that the US follows suit in that front.
• 1:07:20
  And then we're seeing the opposite people just like either
• 1:07:23
  they don't know or they're just so hell bent on control that
• 1:07:27
  they're doubling down on the CBDC route.
• 1:07:29
  And hey, you, you know, on the one hand, you kind of hate to
• 1:07:33
  see it because this is going to hurt more people.
• 1:07:35
  And as a Bitcoiner, you just want more people to hold Bitcoin
• 1:07:39
  because of what we believe it is, you know, number go up,
• 1:07:42
  brings in freedom, go up, brings responsibility go up.
• 1:07:44
  And we'll talk about this in the culture in a minute and how we
• 1:07:47
  think that Bitcoin will actually usher in a better world.
• 1:07:51
  And that's kind of, you know, as a Bitcoiner, my, my original
• 1:07:54
  stance. Now I know, I, I know Nico and I
• 1:07:57
  kind of have different stances on, on stable coins in general.
• 1:08:00
  So like, on the one hand, as a bitcoiner, I want to see more
• 1:08:04
  people adopt Bitcoin. Now I understand this kind of
• 1:08:07
  step theory of people adopting stable coins 1st and then they
• 1:08:11
  go into Bitcoin. It's just in reality, we kind of
• 1:08:14
  haven't seen that. It seems like a lot of people
• 1:08:15
  are either going to be complacent or they just don't
• 1:08:19
  really care. And they're like, hey, like we
• 1:08:21
  all know, well, at least as Bitcoiners, like we all know the
• 1:08:23
  dollar is the biggest shit coin in the world, but it's better
• 1:08:25
  than all the other currencies and Fiat currencies that that
• 1:08:28
  are, that are people that people are allowed to use.
• 1:08:30
  So on one hand, they're moving towards the right direction, on
• 1:08:34
  the other hand, you know, it's, it's not enough.
• 1:08:37
  And of course, I believe all roads lead to Bitcoin.
• 1:08:39
  They will all learn eventually that they need to get to Bitcoin
• 1:08:42
  now. So as a Bitcoiner, I just want
• 1:08:43
  to see more people adopt Bitcoin Now as an American, I kind of
• 1:08:48
  like tether in that front. It's like it's going to continue
• 1:08:51
  the dollar dominance in the world.
• 1:08:52
  It's going to maintain our our position as superpowers and
• 1:08:55
  people using the dollar, which, you know, again, as a Bitcoiner
• 1:08:59
  is not really what I got into this for.
• 1:09:01
  Like, I want to end the Fed. I want people to adopt Bitcoin.
• 1:09:04
  I want Bitcoin to be the currency of the world, the money
• 1:09:06
  of the world that everyone can save in.
• 1:09:08
  But we, we do know that, you know, tethers is one of the
• 1:09:11
  biggest treasury buyers in the world.
• 1:09:13
  So they are essentially propping up the dollar to prop up the
• 1:09:17
  adopt of Bitcoin. And you know, like as an
• 1:09:20
  ideological bitcoiner, maybe this isn't what I want to see,
• 1:09:25
  but as a pragmatic bitcoiner and like a realist here, this is
• 1:09:29
  this is where we are right now. This is the game.
• 1:09:31
  This is how things are played out.
• 1:09:32
  So on an ideological level, yes, there's things that I wish would
• 1:09:36
  be different. But on a pragmatic level, it's
• 1:09:38
  like this is where we are and this is how things are
• 1:09:40
  happening. And so I'm not, I'm not going to
• 1:09:42
  hate on on tether because like Paulo's a bitcoiner tethers
• 1:09:45
  literally the most profitable Bitcoin company in the world.
• 1:09:49
  And you can argue whether they are or not, but they're
• 1:09:51
  Bitcoiners and they I think, what is it?
• 1:09:54
  What's the what's the what's the metric?
• 1:09:55
  Nico by employees at Tether. They're literally the richest
• 1:09:59
  company. Their most their most profitable
• 1:10:01
  company in the world. And by the way, I do want to
• 1:10:03
  give a shout out to Tether too, because they just announced that
• 1:10:06
  they're switching all of their miners to the ocean mining pool,
• 1:10:10
  right? And that one of the things
• 1:10:12
  that's happening right now, we are just at mining Disrupt.
• 1:10:14
  I had an interview with Luke Dash Junior, a keynote and
• 1:10:18
  sorry, a fireside chat. And people underestimate.
• 1:10:21
  One of the things that stuck with me with Luke Dash was like
• 1:10:25
  he said, Nico, at this point, I, I, there's a less than the 10%
• 1:10:30
  chance of Bitcoin succeeding. And the, the reason that really
• 1:10:34
  impacted me was because, you know, you would think that we
• 1:10:38
  passed all these regulatory hurdles, right?
• 1:10:40
  Like, you know, the, the White House is basically announcing,
• 1:10:43
  hey, you know, bitcoins going to be a strategic reserve and of
• 1:10:47
  operation Choke .2 point O. You have the acceptance by
• 1:10:50
  BlackRock, you have the acceptance by public companies.
• 1:10:53
  Bitcoin made was made legal tender in a, in a nation state.
• 1:10:56
  So you would think we're over. We're past a lot of these
• 1:11:00
  hurdles, so to speak, but big butt what people have under,
• 1:11:11
  what people have not seen is the mining pool centralization.
• 1:11:22
  If you take a look at the mining pools and I'm going to try to
• 1:11:25
  pull it up while I speak to you guys about this.
• 1:11:29
  It's pretty crazy right now. I don't think it's ever been
• 1:11:33
  this bad. And let me take, let me pull
• 1:11:37
  this up. I can describe what I'm talking
• 1:11:39
  about so you guys can understand what Ocean is trying to solve.
• 1:11:44
  So 33% of the hash rate is found by Foundry USA and Ant Pool that
• 1:11:55
  main is 18%. So if you add those two pools
• 1:11:59
  together, that's more than 50% of the hash rate.
• 1:12:02
  Well, and it's also worse because some of those other
• 1:12:04
  pools are essentially ample and yeah, 2 pool and stuff.
• 1:12:07
  So yeah, it's crazier than that. I can't emphasize enough how
• 1:12:12
  important you know what Ocean is trying to solve what?
• 1:12:17
  Decentralizing mining pools, decentralizing Bitcoin mining,
• 1:12:21
  right? It's so important because
• 1:12:24
  essentially if Foundry and Foundry and Antpool teamed up,
• 1:12:29
  they couldn't technically censor transactions because you would
• 1:12:33
  need to have 100% of, you know, the, the, the pool, the hash
• 1:12:38
  power. But they could definitely slow
• 1:12:41
  certain transactions down and say, listen, this is not
• 1:12:44
  approved by this transaction is not approved by the US
• 1:12:47
  government. You know, we're not going to
• 1:12:49
  mine it. We're not going to add it into
• 1:12:50
  the block. So mining pool centralization is
• 1:12:53
  like a big effing deal and I think that's something to kind
• 1:12:58
  of pay attention to. Anyhow, guys, we still have a
• 1:13:01
  lot to talk about. We have the author of Money,
• 1:13:05
  Love and Bitcoin joining us today.
• 1:13:07
  Paul Rogers, former certified financial planner on the show
• 1:13:12
  and during the culture segment, we are going to be talking about
• 1:13:15
  his book and let's get this jump straight into it.
• 1:13:19
  Here we go. We'll be right back.
• 1:13:22
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  today. All right, everybody, we are
• 1:15:24
  back. I do want to give before we jump
• 1:15:27
  into it I do want to give an update to the poll.
• 1:15:31
  I did ask everybody should I buy Opti A Lambo. 54% of you guys
• 1:15:37
  said no. I'm going to end the poll right
• 1:15:39
  there. Let's keep everyone out of you.
• 1:15:41
  You are destined to get a Tesla and not a Lambo.
• 1:15:45
  Sorry it had nothing to do with gas.
• 1:15:47
  It just I'm just surprised the I thought I was the hated one on
• 1:15:52
  the show Opti. Honestly, I thought I was the
• 1:15:55
  the the odd duck. You're definitely the ugly one.
• 1:16:00
  I thought Opti is no longer with simply so I thought I was, you
• 1:16:06
  know, I thought I was the hated one.
• 1:16:08
  I thought I was the unpopular one, but apparently Opti people
• 1:16:11
  just don't want you to get, you know, free things.
• 1:16:14
  Bro this. Is why we can't have nice
• 1:16:15
  things. Nico, this is this is exactly
• 1:16:18
  the point. Anyway, anyways, let's, let's
• 1:16:20
  let's. Let's change this, Sophie.
• 1:16:22
  Sophie's in the chat. Tesla Opti.
• 1:16:24
  Tesla Opti. OK, OK, my ego can only take so
• 1:16:28
  much here, here, guys, Let's let's still, let's get let's
• 1:16:30
  redirect this information and this conversation here.
• 1:16:33
  So, Paul, thank you so much for coming.
• 1:16:35
  I know we're we're being a little silly on today's show.
• 1:16:38
  But Paul, you know, you are a former finance, former certified
• 1:16:42
  financial planner and now the author of Money, Love and
• 1:16:45
  Bitcoin. So I think let's just start with
• 1:16:48
  what caused you to write this book?
• 1:16:50
  And if people get it, what will they learn from it?
• 1:16:52
  What's the main message here? Sure so you know the title of my
• 1:16:57
  books got 3 words in it and even if you don't know that much
• 1:17:01
  about Bitcoin, that not your audience, you know that money
• 1:17:05
  and Bitcoin are somehow connected.
• 1:17:07
  But there's this funny word in the middle of love and most of
• 1:17:11
  us. What the hell is that doing in
• 1:17:12
  there? Do I love money?
• 1:17:14
  Do I love Bitcoin? But that's not the kind of love
• 1:17:16
  I'm talking about. You know, I'm, I look at that
• 1:17:19
  old question that before your days, but Tina Turner asked that
• 1:17:22
  question, what's love got to do with it?
• 1:17:24
  And that famous song. And my answer is, I think it's
• 1:17:28
  got everything to do with it. Because the reason I wrote the
• 1:17:31
  book is, you know, all the dialogue that we have in this
• 1:17:34
  space is, is important signal about what the number is, how
• 1:17:38
  people, what the adoption rates are, how the regulatory system
• 1:17:42
  is involved in approving or not approving Bitcoin, how it's
• 1:17:47
  playing out. That's critically important and
• 1:17:50
  relevant. And if we want to move between
• 1:17:54
  that meme of fixing the money and fixing the world, I think
• 1:17:59
  there's a gap there that isn't just, it's not an equation.
• 1:18:04
  Fix the money equals fix the world.
• 1:18:07
  I think we fix the money. We built a much better
• 1:18:10
  foundation upon which to fix the world.
• 1:18:15
  But to fix the world and to begin to think about new
• 1:18:18
  institutions and structures built on an improved technology
• 1:18:23
  of money, we've got to think about deeper, more universal
• 1:18:26
  principles that are going to appeal to everyone.
• 1:18:30
  You know, lots of the inside baseball or shop talk about
• 1:18:35
  economics and monetary policy don't mean anything to that mom
• 1:18:40
  who's from those TikTok and videos and Instagram videos,
• 1:18:45
  who's sitting behind the wheel of her car in tears, working two
• 1:18:49
  or three jobs trying to figure out how she's going to feed her
• 1:18:53
  kids and just get by. And so that helps tee up the
• 1:18:57
  problem statement. But you know, most people are
• 1:19:01
  confused by all this stuff and they rely on a lot of experts.
• 1:19:05
  So we educate them as much as we can about the why of money and a
• 1:19:09
  better form of it. But we also, and and that's
• 1:19:12
  there's there's a saying that pain pushes and vision pulls.
• 1:19:17
  So that's the pain that's going to push people into being
• 1:19:20
  receptive to a new technology. But we also have to have a
• 1:19:24
  vision of what happens. What happens when we get to
• 1:19:27
  hyper Bitcoin ization? What happens if we have, as you
• 1:19:31
  say in in your work, that peaceful revolution?
• 1:19:35
  What then does our social structure or institutions look
• 1:19:39
  like? What are the principles that
• 1:19:41
  they're built on? Because if we don't talk and
• 1:19:45
  discuss and consider leaning more into more profound
• 1:19:50
  principles and leaning away from the things that have created the
• 1:19:53
  structures we have, like fear and greed and getting what I can
• 1:19:58
  and scarcity and extracting value from others.
• 1:20:03
  If we lean into those things, you know, I'm afraid that no
• 1:20:07
  matter how great a technology of money is, we're just going to
• 1:20:11
  recreate some of the ills of the current system.
• 1:20:13
  But if instead. We lean into things like love.
• 1:20:18
  We lean into respect for each individual on this planet as a
• 1:20:24
  unique life source with a different contribution of value
• 1:20:28
  that they're going to make. However, others may assess that
• 1:20:31
  if we respect their individuality, but if we also
• 1:20:36
  understand that we do live in community.
• 1:20:39
  There is no stand alone sovereign individual.
• 1:20:42
  We are part of a system and that system in my view should
• 1:20:48
  function for everyone, not just a few.
• 1:20:51
  And we've never had this amazing technology of Bitcoin to build
• 1:20:56
  this new transparent, permissionless, trustless, more
• 1:21:01
  equitable system. And I don't mean it equal, but
• 1:21:04
  equitable system that we can build new structures on.
• 1:21:08
  And so if we can talk also in addition to the problems, but
• 1:21:12
  also about a new vision for society, for our institutions,
• 1:21:20
  because we're going to have to create them.
• 1:21:22
  If, you know, you ascribe to a fourth turning viewpoint with
• 1:21:26
  the idea that, again, we are in a system where it is going to
• 1:21:29
  collapse of its own weight, new structures are going to have to
• 1:21:33
  take its place. And we need to have more
• 1:21:36
  dialogue and more vision about what those are going to look
• 1:21:38
  like. Because I think that's the
• 1:21:40
  vision that's really going to pull us all into fixing the
• 1:21:44
  world. So that was really the
• 1:21:46
  motivation for writing the book. Hold on.
• 1:21:48
  I have, I have, I have so many questions here.
• 1:21:49
  So you're proposing a new system here.
• 1:21:53
  So the system that we have today is how would you define the
• 1:22:01
  system that we have to say today and are what do you are you, are
• 1:22:04
  you describing a new governmental system, a new
• 1:22:08
  economic model like what is it exactly that you're describing?
• 1:22:13
  Yes, because I think, you know, we have created over the last
• 1:22:19
  several 100 years and are accelerating the pace of that
• 1:22:23
  very centralized structures that have maximized the rewards of
• 1:22:29
  violence from a sovereign individual standpoint.
• 1:22:33
  If you read that book and others and you know the new technology
• 1:22:38
  platforms are shifting the success of that model or the
• 1:22:44
  necessity of that model. And so I think we're going to
• 1:22:48
  see, again, if you look at most nation states throughout the
• 1:22:55
  world, they are not the most effective providers of services.
• 1:23:02
  Whether it is perpetually creating wars that we all have
• 1:23:06
  to pay for, even if we don't necessarily agree with.
• 1:23:11
  Whether it is extracting our time and energy through
• 1:23:14
  inflation. Whether it is creating
• 1:23:19
  regulatory structures that don't allow us to truly contribute in
• 1:23:26
  creating businesses and doing the activities of humanity that
• 1:23:31
  we we want to do to, to do something.
• 1:23:33
  As we're talking about earlier, we can't just sit around and do
• 1:23:36
  nothing and get value. I think we're going to, we're at
• 1:23:40
  a time that our governmental structures, perhaps our nation
• 1:23:45
  state structures are going to be shifting and evolving.
• 1:23:48
  And so we do have some real dialogue about that.
• 1:23:51
  Our financial structures are obviously going to change if we
• 1:23:54
  move to a Bitcoin system where we have a technology of money
• 1:23:59
  where you can really save an investment is what investment
• 1:24:04
  historically is supposed to be. Which is true capital allocation
• 1:24:09
  for entrepreneurs to create businesses and have products
• 1:24:14
  that are going to benefit humanity.
• 1:24:16
  Rather than forcing a lot of misallocation of resources
• 1:24:20
  because of government policies or the control of interest rates
• 1:24:25
  or the way in which you manage these control structures so that
• 1:24:29
  you can be re elected again. Those are we're on the precipice
• 1:24:34
  of major changes and we need to be thinking about them, talking
• 1:24:38
  about them and discussing what is it we want to build a
• 1:24:42
  structure on because. Yeah.
• 1:24:46
  Yeah. So, OK.
• 1:24:47
  And then you were, you were talking about not going away
• 1:24:52
  from kind of like the sovereign individual type of mindset.
• 1:24:57
  You're, you're saying saying like that isn't attractive.
• 1:25:00
  We should approach it in a different, in a different
• 1:25:03
  mindset, not from an individual perspective, but from a more
• 1:25:09
  collective perspective. Like what did you mean by that
• 1:25:12
  exactly? Well, we have to be very nuanced
• 1:25:14
  there. So because I think many times
• 1:25:18
  people take the idea of sovereignty and stay, you know,
• 1:25:22
  I just want mine. I want to do with it what I
• 1:25:25
  want, and I don't want to bother with anybody else.
• 1:25:28
  And again, if you and I say in the book, if you want to live
• 1:25:30
  off the grid, off the land in the Backcountry, that's fine.
• 1:25:35
  But the reality is we live in an interconnected system and a web
• 1:25:40
  of life. You know, all systems work in
• 1:25:45
  biology and cosmology. Physics will tell us we live in
• 1:25:50
  an interconnected universe. So there's a mindset shift that
• 1:25:55
  has to both respect the unique nature of each individual and
• 1:25:59
  recognize that we are part of a system and how we construct our
• 1:26:06
  social networks within the system, within the system for
• 1:26:09
  humanity should reflect valuing the individual and recognizing
• 1:26:16
  that we live in an interconnected web.
• 1:26:18
  It's not to say that we should be maximizing things for some
• 1:26:24
  collective. Clearly we've seen that strategy
• 1:26:28
  fail abysmally and create in more death and destruction than
• 1:26:33
  probably any other system has. So it's a new it's a new way of
• 1:26:38
  thinking about some of these things.
• 1:26:40
  And it's a little hard because we've we've not grown up in
• 1:26:44
  these systems, we've not talked about this.
• 1:26:46
  We've probably never had the opportunity in human history to
• 1:26:51
  be able to think this way. Yet we can learn from history
• 1:26:57
  and we can learn from technology and new systems.
• 1:27:01
  And The upshot, I think, is that, you know, technology
• 1:27:05
  offers us the opportunity to have great abundance.
• 1:27:09
  And as Jeff Booth, I think is the most articulate, articulate
• 1:27:14
  visionary in this. If prices fall to the marginal
• 1:27:17
  cost of production, that all those who may not be able to add
• 1:27:21
  as much value as others can still at least live a life that
• 1:27:27
  has value, that can take care of their families, that can feed
• 1:27:30
  themselves and then explore some of the deeper meanings of life
• 1:27:35
  as they may choose. And, you know, we're otherwise
• 1:27:40
  going to end up in some very difficult times if we have a
• 1:27:46
  huge class of the population. And this doesn't just mean
• 1:27:49
  manual laborers. I mean, if you listen to Eric
• 1:27:51
  Schmidt the other day talk about the development of AI, he can
• 1:27:54
  tell you that all the mathematicians and all the
• 1:27:58
  computer programmers are basically going to be out of
• 1:28:01
  work in six years. Then we're going to need to
• 1:28:04
  shift our way of thinking. And I think it's a huge
• 1:28:08
  opportunity to do what's more important in life than just
• 1:28:12
  commercial transactions. And you know, I've said we joked
• 1:28:17
  about a Tesla or a Lambo, and I said, you know, I think if you
• 1:28:20
  asked almost all the people on the planet, planet what's more
• 1:28:24
  important, a Lambo or love, you get the same answer.
• 1:28:30
  So why can't we build systems more on that?
• 1:28:33
  I love that. And I think Bitcoin's going to,
• 1:28:35
  you're going to be able, it's, it's enabled by Bitcoin.
• 1:28:38
  You're going to be able to do that with Bitcoin.
• 1:28:40
  I, I don't think you're going to be able to do that with Fiat.
• 1:28:43
  Anyways, guys, go check out Paul's book.
• 1:28:47
  He's the author of Money, Love and Bitcoin.
• 1:28:50
  It's on Amazon right now. Get yourself a copy.
• 1:28:54
  Money, love and Bitcoin, creating a path to a freer, fair
• 1:28:58
  and more peaceful world. The author, Paul Rogers joins us
• 1:29:02
  today on Simply Bitcoin. Really, really appreciate it,
• 1:29:05
  guys. Go check check out the book.
• 1:29:07
  And before we wrap up, I do want to give a very special shout out
• 1:29:11
  to our sponsor. Bitcoin 2025 is going to be the
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  We will be at the conference floor.
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  through the 29th embrace game theory.
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  Hope to see you guys there. Anyways, guys, if you guys
• 1:30:09
  enjoyed today's show, make sure to smash that like button
• 1:30:13
  consider subscribing if you feel like we provided you guys some
• 1:30:16
  value. We love you all and of course,
• 1:30:19
  we'll be back on we'll be back tomorrow, the Friday show, the
• 1:30:22
  last episode of the week of Simply Bitcoin Live.
• 1:30:25
  Until then, peace out everybody. Go outside, enjoy your family,
• 1:30:28
  eat some good food, touch some grass, touch some sand and we'll
• 1:30:32
  see you guys tomorrow. Today's episode was brought to
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  you by bitcoinwell.com, a Bitcoin only platform on a
• 1:30:39
  mission to enable financial independence.