Latest / Auto Collabs / Local Scale vs. National Scale with Alan Haig

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Local Scale vs. National Scale with Alan Haig · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  [laughs] [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs. The reality is, is why we're laughing is because Paul was not recording just a second ago.
• 0:17
  So I'm taking the lead on this one. That's a brilliant intro too.
• 0:19
  And when we think about incredible people, uh, in our industry that just have an, uh, an immense amount of insight because of the interactions that they have with dealers every day, that's Alan Haag.
• 0:28
  And Alan Haag, uh, spent a little time with us to tell us a lot about what happened in 2021 and what's happening in 2022 regarding, uh, M&A transactions in the dealership space.
• 0:40
  Um, guys, uh, just an incredible interview and, uh, we hope you actually just enjoy the way we got to talk to Alan Haag.
• 0:48
  [upbeat music] Alan, thank you so much for, uh, spending some time with us today from your summer office.
• 1:00
  Really appreciate you giving us a, a few minutes to share all the insights of your travels and, uh, what you're seeing out there in the industry. Well, I appreciate you, uh, having me on, so to speak.
• 1:11
  It is still a really active time in the buy/sell market.
• 1:16
  We've had, uh, a chance to compile the, the stats for the second quarter or the first half of 2022, and the n- total number of dealerships sold so far this year is up 3% from last year, which was by far a record year in the industry.
• 1:30
  And most of that increase is coming from private dealers buying private dealers. Last year, we had a huge number of transactions closed by the public companies. They spent over $9 billion on acquisitions last year.
• 1:43
  Normally, they're spending around 750 million, maybe a billion dollars in a good year.
• 1:48
  So they did some really large transactions last year, and I think they spent the first few months, six months of this year digesting some of those. Uh, but they're coming back in the market as well.
• 1:58
  So we're staying pu- Did you say $9 billion? He did. I heard a B. [laughs] Yes, sir. Yes, sir. A big B.
• 2:05
  I just have to stop you there because, you know, I, I think a lot of times, you know, there's plenty of people that listen to the Auto Collabs podcast and, you know, from, you know, industry partners to dealers, to some salespeople and account reps, and everybody kind of in the ecosystem.
• 2:21
  And when we, and when we like glaze over like, oh, 750 million, sometimes a billion, but $9 billion in acquisitions from l- large and smaller groups last year. That's, that's last year.
• 2:35
  Well, nine billion was the amount just by the public companies. Wow. Okay. That's just the public companies. So public companies bought 260 stores last year. Private dealers bought 491. Oh. So- Wow...
• 2:49
  the amount spending by the, the private dealers might have been even more, you know? [laughs] We don't have any way to track the spending, but it was a huge year, you know? And, and some of it was, um...
• 3:01
  The public companies have all adapted a similar strategy now, where they have this bricks and clicks strategy. You know, Lithia's explained it pretty well.
• 3:10
  They wanna build out a n- nationwide network of dealerships through acquisitions, and then they're, they're gonna use their Driveway app or website to penetrate into the rest of the market and take share from dealers that don't have the same capabilities that they have online.
• 3:29
  So, uh, that's, uh, that's, uh, Lithia's str- uh, strategy. If you listen to their press release, they refer to, they say, "Lithia and Driveway, Lithia and Driveway." Yeah. Yep. Yep.
• 3:39
  I, I have a hunch they'll rebrand the whole company Driveway at some point and have a national brand.
• 3:44
  You might get a- So you think they're gonna call Dri- Like, your guess is that they're gonna just, everything will be Driveway. There will no longer be two brands.
• 3:51
  It'll be the same brand, Driveway, trading as it is right now, but it'll be everything, franchise, used cars, all wrapped up. If they can get past the factories, that makes sense to me. Mm-hmm. Right?
• 4:03
  There's CarMax, you can go to the stores, or you can go CarMax to the website. You know, it'd be weird if you had, you know, Lithia's bought all these stores, and in most cases, they've kept their original brands. Yep.
• 4:13
  Just like AutoNation did when they bought a lot of stores, they'd have one brand in a market. But about five years ago, AutoNation rebranded all the non-luxury stores AutoNation.
• 4:23
  And I think that's gonna help with their digital strategy, 'cause then as a consumer, you're just seeing one brand in the market. AutoNation, AutoNation, AutoNation.
• 4:29
  Not, you know, Maroone Ford, Elway Ford, you know, those different sub-brands.
• 4:35
  But at any rate, this bricks and clicks strategy is something that I think all the public companies are adopting because they've all been more active, right? I mean, Lithia has been the most active. Asbury
• 4:47
  has been extremely active the last couple years since David Holtz kind of took over that company. You've also had Sonic coming back into the market. They bought a large group. Group One bought, uh, Prime, uh, last year.
• 5:00
  They're out buying floors. Um, Penske's been a little bit quiet, and they've been focusing maybe on their used car strategy.
• 5:07
  Uh, so they're all, really all out doing this and, and that's something that honestly we're recommending to private dealers is, is, uh, today everybody's selling every vehicle they can get at full price plus, right?
• 5:20
  But in five years, when the inventory comes back and you have to fight for customers... You know, today, you know, people are shopping on their phones and their computers, um, to buy
• 5:33
  most types of inventory or mo- most types of items, and we know there's been an increase in digital retailing on the auto side as well.
• 5:41
  But I feel like in five years, when there are plenty of units out there, those groups that have the capability to attract customer with, with a, 10 brands in the market or 20 brands in the market, new that they can sell, and thousands of used cars available, and customers can go and, and, and touch them physically, I think they're gonna have an advantage over the person who has one or two stores and can't have the same-Uh, mindshare of customers.
• 6:06
  You know, when you go search for Ford near me, it's gonna be Lithia that pops up or Carvana that pops up, not the local guy if he just has one store. Mm-hmm.
• 6:14
  So we're encouraging folks to be active now on the M&A side to, to build out a larger group of stores. And our estimate is we have perhaps 10 of the major brands. That'll cover about 75% of consumer demand.
• 6:28
  And you'll have thousands of vehicles, new and used, in the local market available for customers to shop. You'll have a local brand.
• 6:36
  If you have 10 stores in a market, you should be able to attract lots of great talent, 'cause they'll know that, "Hey, if I join this Honda store over here, I'm a service advisor. It...
• 6:45
  The service manager may be here for 15 more years, but there's another, uh, company in that group, another dealership in that group, where there may be an opportunity for me for advancement."
• 6:55
  So- So, so what, what you're saying is... Because right now I see a lot of groups where they don't have- Uh-huh... where, like, they have a store in, uh, you know, let's just, let's just talk Tennessee.
• 7:06
  That's where they've got a store in Memphis. They got a store in Clarksville. They got a store in Nashville. And that's, you know, a three to five store group. But really there's, there's...
• 7:14
  It's not just growth for growth's sake, especially on, in the smaller groups.
• 7:18
  The idea is, hey, go acquire regionally focused, you know, groups of 10 is kind of the, is the sweet spot it sounds like for, uh, for a, for a smaller group to maintain a, a regionality and, and, like, cover the customer base is kind of the idea there.
• 7:35
  Yes. And this is a concept, uh, that, well, not just Don Flo, but he's the one that I spoke to most about it, and he has a, a group of stores in North Carolina. He's got about 30 stores. And so he covers all the brands.
• 7:47
  He goes from the mountains to the coast. And, um, he has this phrase which is, "Local scale is more powerful than national scale." Hmm.
• 7:58
  Uh, and, um, there's no point in having one store in 250 different towns across the country. The customer doesn't get any benefit from having one store near them.
• 8:09
  But the customer will benefit if you have 10 near them, right? You have more opportunities for them to find what they're looking for. Uh, coming back for service is easier.
• 8:18
  Retaining that customer on their next vehicle purchase or lease is easier. So local scale is more powerful than national scale.
• 8:26
  So we're definitely encouraging dealers, when a store comes up in their market that they're interested in, it's almost like Monopoly. You know, when you land on a property, you buy it. Don't pass up on it. Yeah.
• 8:38
  And, and we do have clients that are very successful and friends of ours that, you know, they'll buy a group of stores here that's underperforming. They'll buy another one up [laughs] in New England.
• 8:45
  They'll buy one in the Midwest. And, and they can, um, they can still, still succeed with that. But I feel like long term,
• 8:53
  if they have two or three stores in a market and Lithia's got 10 or another local dealer's got 10 or 15, or in Don Flo's case, 30, I think the local small dealer is at disadvantage compared to the local big dealer.
• 9:08
  And the national company doesn't have any strength over the local guy if he just has one or two stores in that market. Hmm. Interesting. So- So, so the...
• 9:15
  I think that's really key because I was gonna ask this question that, i- in all this M&A activity in up 3%, and everybody's kind of like, uh, you know, if, if you're paying attention, you're looking at the Publix, that's the news that's out there.
• 9:26
  That's what Automotive News or Wall Street Journal or, or, you know, the stock market is gonna point to and say, "This is what's going on."
• 9:33
  And the question always is, "Well, what do I do as the local person that, you know, that's three to five, and where do I go? Do I go outside my market or do I stay inside my market?"
• 9:43
  And what you're saying is like, "Stay inside your market, stay regionally focused, and you have a brand impact because of that."
• 9:48
  So it's like, it's almost like your M&A strategy is your marketing strategy, and they, they are tied tightly together. Yes. And I'm not saying that's the only strategy that can be successful.
• 9:59
  For instance, if you have a Toyota store in a single point market, you're gonna be successful, you know? [laughs] Yeah. If you have a, a, a Porsche store- [laughs]...
• 10:07
  a Mercedes store, a BMW store, a Lexus store in a single point market- You're good... you're gonna be successful. Yeah. If that's the only store you own. But if you've got one- Are, are you seeing... Sorry.
• 10:16
  Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. I was gonna say, if you've got one Chevy and one Ford and one Nissan in a metro market, I don't think you have enough critical mass to attract the best talent.
• 10:28
  I don't think you have enough critical mass to attract the eyeballs on these tiny little screens that, that my kids are gonna be shopping through- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm... in the future.
• 10:36
  I think you have to have more local scale to attract these, these, uh, shoppers in the future. So, Alan- Can you give a- Go ahead. My bad. [laughs] Yeah.
• 10:48
  Can you give a little insight into what, uh, like have, have you had conversations with OEMs through these, uh, acquisitions in what their perception or preference is?
• 11:01
  Or is it just like they're looking at more of a silo on profitability, CSI, and, and, you know, and retention, and it's just they, they stay in that silo for, to ma- to figure out if they can handle their brand?
• 11:15
  Or is there, is there a level of attention that the brand is, that the OEM is recognizing on whether or not you're national or regional?
• 11:24
  I think, um, well, the, all the public companies have framework agreements that dictate when and if they can acquire another of their franchises.
• 11:34
  So historically, the factories haven't wanted a dealer to have too much control in a market, because if that dealer doesn't perform great, their market share suffers. Mm-hmm.
• 11:45
  So for Hon- for Honda, it used to be, "Hey, you can't have any contiguous Honda stores." And then they would draw the map so that every store connected to each other. [laughs] Um, Toyota was a little more realistic.
• 11:57
  They said you can't have more than 20% of the stores in a market. So, you know, you couldn't have more than-Two stores in a market, unless there were 10 stores in the market.
• 12:08
  Um, Hyundai is now pushing for dealers to, to have more power in a market. So they want... They don't want if there are four points in the market, they don't want four dealers. They want maybe two. Yeah.
• 12:19
  They're realizing what you're saying, right?
• 12:22
  In that, you know, that leverage tipping point, when the more, the more, you know, consistent experiences and consistent ownership and leverage that the group has, the stronger- Mm-hmm...
• 12:31
  the brand is going to be, is basically- Mm-hmm... what I hear you saying. Yeah. And I think that they believe that in the past, Hyundai, you know, Hyundai stores used to be cheap.
• 12:41
  They used to only make $600,000 a year and the multiple was low. And then they got great product. Yeah. Yeah. And the margins went from $800 a car [laughs] to $4,000 a car.
• 12:52
  So now Hyundai stores are making a lot of money.
• 12:55
  And, um, so now Hyundai wants to take the dealers that they have, and many of the original dealers used to be not that interested in Hyundai compared to their Ford or Toyota stores. Now they want
• 13:07
  dealers that aren't committed to Hyundai to, to basically get out, and sell you s- somebody who is gonna invest in it, to put in the bronze thing, who's gonna pro- heavily promote it, et cetera.
• 13:17
  So, you know, that's, that's one of the franchises that we see that wants to have more consolidation within markets. I will say Mercedes also appears to wanna have fewer dealers owning more stores.
• 13:31
  Um, you stop competing against the other Mercedes dealer a little bit, and you focus more on the customer experience. Um, so it's- Wow. Yeah... it's not clear, right? I mean, it's, everyone's a little bit different.
• 13:43
  But anyway, this is, this is one recommendation that we're making, that now when inventory is, is limited, um, is a good time for, for dealers to be making acquisitions 'cause the profit is gonna be so high.
• 13:57
  'Cause if they can accumulate stores now so that when the, the supply comes back and the margins go down and dealers have to compete for, for, uh, market share again, they'll be better positioned within a market
• 14:11
  to maintain or take share from smaller dealers. Um, and, and what we're seeing, and a couple other trends we're seeing, as long as we're on trends, is, uh, we're seeing many dealers choosing to divest stores now.
• 14:26
  Um, almost every group of 10 or more stores probably has a couple dogs in there. You know, they've never found the right manager. Maybe it's in an outlying market.
• 14:34
  They planned on growing there, but they only found one store, and so they, they never have the best talent in that store. Or they have a facility issue and they don't wanna put 5 or 10 or $15 million into a new facility.
• 14:45
  But with... So it's just been a laggard for them, and I saw this when I was at AutoNation. You know, they, they would buy stores and regularly sell stores. It's just part of portfolio management.
• 14:55
  Uh, but now that stores are all making money, and it didn't, it wasn't that way. [laughs] I mean- Yeah. Right... 2015, before- Really? [laughs] Oh, a lot of stores were losers, right? A lot of stores were bleeders.
• 15:07
  And, uh, now that they're all making money, we're seeing larger groups say, "Hey, I can probably get some good value for this store now.
• 15:15
  So I'm gonna sell this outlying Chrysler store or Honda store or whatever, Audi store in some cases," and say, "Uh, okay, I can sell it for a nice amount of blue sky.
• 15:24
  I'm gonna take that capital, redeploy it into my core market." Uh, and then we're also seeing some dealers that maybe they're near retirement, but they're not quite ready to leave the business.
• 15:37
  But they're looking at the values for stores that their buddies are getting when they sell, and they're thinking, "You know, it'd be nice if I could get some of that value, but not really be done with the business."
• 15:47
  And so we're starting to see dealers sell a minority ownership stake in their company, or in some cases a majority ownership stake in their company, to other dealer groups or investors.
• 15:59
  So for instance, our most recent transaction, we advised, um, on the sale of John Elway's Crown Toyota in Ontario, California, which is one of the top, tip-top Toyota stores in the country.
• 16:12
  It's one of the best well-performing in the country, and usually one top five in terms of sales. Uh, the owners there, that was John Elway, Mitch Pearce, and Paxton Gagnon, and, and, uh, Dan Grubbs too.
• 16:25
  They sold a 90% interest in that dealership to the Jeff Swickard Automotive Group. So they're still in the Toyota family. They still have cash flow from that dealership. They're not retiring.
• 16:38
  They're gonna take that capital from California, they only have one store left in California, and they're gonna redeploy it in Denver or other mountain states where they have other dealerships today. Hmm. Interesting.
• 16:50
  And, and Jeff Swickard, who, um, you know, has, he's been one of the most aggressive acquirers in recent years.
• 16:58
  I like this deal for him because when you're acquiring a high-performance store, there's always some upside available, and I, I think they maybe have some ideas there. But there's also a lot of downside.
• 17:10
  So by keeping Paxton Gagnon in the chair as general manager and partner, by keeping Mitch and John on as partners, I think they're gonna keep that store wholly intact in terms of the personnel and the momentum, culture, et cetera.
• 17:25
  Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think, you know, that's a one-price store.
• 17:29
  So I think that there's a chance that Paxton Gagnon, who's been operating that store, can, can educate some of the other Swickard operators about what it's like to be a one-price dealer, what are the benefits. Yeah.
• 17:43
  You know? So it's almost like acquisition for learning. Yeah. It's like- Interesting. Yeah... straight, like, DNA. Like, how do we get that DNA as, you know, how do we intermingle those things so that...
• 17:52
  Apparently, like, leadership is, is saying like, "Hey, we want to explore that," and how mu- how better to explore it than with a really successful case study that is now part of the family?
• 18:04
  I think that any, any pro- any group that's acquiring, they're looking for cash flowBut they also are really gonna be looking for talent. Mm. Because as you expand, you need more talent, right?
• 18:15
  And so in the AutoNation days when I first got started, we were doing stock for stock deals, so all the operators stayed. And many of the best leaders at AutoNation
• 18:24
  were executives at the dealership groups that AutoNation acquired. And they stayed, and they had a, a bigger opportunity, and they grew, and, and, and they were really key to keeping that company together.
• 18:35
  [laughs] So- You know, it's interesting.
• 18:37
  We don't talk a lot about that in automotive or in the, the, the retail side of the business, but the reality is, is that in the technology side of the business, this happens all the time. Mm-hmm.
• 18:47
  In, in, in any technology, is that, is that a good amount of the acquisition is not just for the IP or the technology or even the, or even the profit.
• 18:57
  That it's actually the leadership or the founders or anything like that, that, that they're acquiring that brain s- space or the leadership capacity just as much as they are acquiring the p- the, the actual company.
• 19:11
  And, you know, so you saying like, "Oh, that's actually happening in automotive too," instead of going and just sniping those people, it's like, "Hey, look, we know we need to grow. We wanna grow in this region.
• 19:21
  Let's go find the places with the best talent because we might groom that into additional resources for, for our company." Um, that, I, I, I think that's a really...
• 19:30
  Especially when all we've been talking about in the industry is hard-to-find talent, need to hire, hiring is hard, all that type of stuff. Techni- finding technicians. It's like, "You wanna go find some more technicians?
• 19:41
  Buy some stores." [laughs] You know? Interesting. Yeah. I, I think it's, uh, it's a win... I like to view it as a win-win-win.
• 19:48
  I mean, Toyota, um, has loved, I think, their affiliation with John Elway and Mitch Pearce and Paxton Gagnon, and that's continuing. And, um, and Jeff also has the support of, of Toyota and a number of other factories.
• 20:02
  He's, for instance, chairman of the Mercedes-Benz Dealer Advisory Board. He's gonna be... I mean, he bought a whole bunch of cash flow with this deal,
• 20:10
  but he also has now access to some of the most successful and best-known auto retailers, some of the most progressive.
• 20:16
  And as he evolves his company, you know, I'm, I'm not sure Jeff is gonna do this, but I would assume he's gonna be talking to Paxton about, "Could we deploy one price at our other stores? Would that make sense for us?
• 20:27
  Would we win or would we lose? What would the transition be like?" 'Cause it's not easy, um, to do that. Mm-hmm.
• 20:32
  So that's, that's an example where a group decided to sell a majority ownership stake in their company, but not the whole thing. They really didn't want to exit from their relationship with Toyota.
• 20:42
  They didn't really wanna exit from the, the, the profitability of that business.
• 20:46
  But they did wanna get a lot of liquidity out it, liquidity out of it for investment in other areas where they're, they're a little stronger. Another trend we're seeing is where a dealer is not interested in exiting.
• 21:01
  They still wanna do what they've been doing, but they do wanna take advantage of the current high values for dealerships today, and they're willing to sell a minority stake in the company.
• 21:11
  That's something that's new, where a dealer could come in and say, "Okay, I'm gonna buy up to 49% of the, of the value of your company. You are gonna, you, Mr. Dealer, are gonna stay in the chair.
• 21:22
  You're gonna make all the decisions about hiring, firing, inventory, advertising. You're gonna deal with the factory.
• 21:29
  Uh, I'm really here for the cash flow, and I don't have the ability to call you and say, 'I want you to change the pay plans' or advertise more or less. I sit here, and I'm a passive investor.
• 21:41
  At some point down the road, I'll wanna sell, but I can't force you, Mr. Dealer, to sell your shares. I might sell my stock. Or maybe in five years you decide you're ready to fully retire, and we all exit together."
• 21:52
  That's another new, um- Mm. opportunity for dealers 'cause, because, you know, a lot of people, they're having fun in the business right now, right? Right. I mean, it's all-time high profits.
• 22:04
  Um, they've never had this much fun. But at the same time, you know, what, what happens with the agency model? What happens with EVs? What happens, uh, if they get sick? What happens if the competitors get better?
• 22:18
  There are all kinds of risks that exist that it's not likely to get better in our industry. If anything, there's more downside risk [laughs] in terms of profitability.
• 22:25
  So a lot of these folks are saying, "Okay, well, if I could sell 40% of my company, let's say the company's worth $100 million, I get $40 million in cash, I can use that to invest in real estate, in the stock market, whatever I wanna do.
• 22:40
  I can start to give funds to my heirs if they wanna start their careers outside the car business."
• 22:46
  Provides a lot of liquidity for them, and they still own 60% of a business that's making three times as much as it was before. So their, their cash flow is not really gonna be hurting compared to pre-pandemic times.
• 22:58
  Mm-hmm. You know, it's not like- Interesting. It's not like they haven't got their own grass or anything that they're beyond hard times.
• 23:03
  [laughs] Um, so it's, it's, uh, it's fun for us right now to have these opportunities to represent dealers where, hey, if you wanna, you wanna ring the bell right now, I mean, we're seeing these record-setting prices.
• 23:16
  Uh, I mentioned, you know, this Crown deal. It was the second-most ever paid for a single franchise dealership. The highest, uh, group one paid just earlier this year for Charles Mont Toyota.
• 23:27
  That was over 200 million in blue sky for one store. So when I raise this glass, you think this, this, a Guinness or a cup of coffee. [laughs] But
• 23:39
  I'm gonna be celebrating our success this week and, and toasting John, and Mitch, and Paxton, and, and Jeff Swickard on their success 'cause I think that we're gonna continue to see some record-setting prices for dealerships for the rest of this year in, in different brands.
• 23:53
  Mm. There you go. Wow. I love it. [laughs] That's, uh, uh, a lot. That's the first toast- He was like-... that's ever happened on the podcast. [laughs] I'm, I'm toasting.
• 24:00
  Whatever it is, I'm toasting because it's fun and exci... You know, I love that, that, like, we're having fun in this industry. There, there, there's M&A activity but-People are wanting to stay.
• 24:12
  And it's not, it's not just, like, you'd, you'd think it's just, like, a cash grab.
• 24:17
  But no, it's like, it's, it's an interesting movement of funds to make sure you- people can stay in the industry, they can keep having fun.
• 24:25
  And, and there's a, there's a, there's a look towards solving the customer experience with the M&A activity. There's a regional focus. There's a care for the customer.
• 24:34
  And it's not just millions of dollars flying around for millions of dollars sake. It's millions of dollars that has a ton of intentionality, uh, with it. And I think the industry is raising a glass.
• 24:45
  Well, I think we're gonna do that, too, when, when we hang out with you at ASOTU CON. We're really excited to kinda bring the insights that you, that you bring there. Uh, we'll raise a glass with you.
• 24:54
  We'll throw a party, uh, with, with the industry, the only, the way that we only can at ASOTU. Uh, but, uh, Alan, thank you so much for joining us, for bringing us your insights.
• 25:03
  It, it's been, it's just been a learning experience for me the last few minutes. So, thank you. Well, it's my pleasure, and I'll look forward to toasting you in person, uh, not too far from now.
• 25:15
  [upbeat music] Alan is such a depth of knowledge. You can tell he's in the data every single day. It's like you put a quarter in, right, and out comes the most relevant, pertinent information about M&A. Yeah.
• 25:28
  Insights from experience, right, Cirillo? Substance that can only come from experience. That's actually true. [laughs] And you know, M&A's kinda got that vibe about it, right? It's, like, blue suits, right?
• 25:40
  But the truth is, it's less about... I mean, it's about the numbers, let's be honest. But really, M&A is so emotionally tied, um, to the actual client, right? You have a client, and he represents mostly sell side.
• 25:53
  So this is a lot of decision-making of, like, should we sell the family business that has been in the family for generations and generations. So, um, it doesn't surprise me- Well, I, I...
• 26:02
  Real quick, I also re- I really appreciate the fact that he did tie M&A activity to the customer experience- Absolutely... and how- Mm-hmm...
• 26:09
  you know, regionality and understanding how you can serve a customer as you acquire dealerships or as your dealership is getting acquired, and how that actually might be better for the consumer if you operate correctly, uh, in a regional e- ecosystem, I think is, it's, it's a key to understanding any type of transaction, technology, industry partner, anything right now, is tying it back to the customer experience.
• 26:30
  Right. I'm continually blown away at just how vast this industry is that we work inside of.
• 26:38
  Like, we talk a lot about community, but, like, I, I think of just how versatile and vast it is in the sense that, like, I'm a tech marketing guy.
• 26:46
  There is an infinite wormhole that I can go down and only see the industry through that lens. Then all of a sud- Like, I'm not even thinking about M&A. I'm not thinking about it at all. Mm-hmm.
• 26:57
  And yet, there's just as vast and infinite a wormhole to go down in that direction. So true. And it just makes me...
• 27:04
  It, it just increases my appreciation and respect for, um, dealers, operators, because they're getting hit with all of the things. They have to be. They have to handle everything. You aren't kidding. Like, everything.
• 27:17
  And so just so much respect for the dealer community. Loved this conversation with Alan Haag. We hope you did, too.
• 27:23
  On behalf of Paul Daly, Kyle Mounts here, and myself, Michael Cirillo, thanks for joining us on Auto Collab.
• 27:29
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• 27:42
  If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 27:50
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collab. Welcome to Auto Collab. [laughs] Why are we recording? [laughs] Are we rolling yet? Not yet