Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Jorge Avila-Torrez - Solved Cold Case - Part 2

Transcript

Jorge Avila-Torrez - Solved Cold Case - Part 2 · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Today we discuss part two of Jorge Aliva Torres. If
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: you haven't yet listened to part one, we've gone over
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: much of the backstory regarding how it led up to
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: his arrest, and today, in part two, we're going to
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: go over much more of what police learned about him afterwards.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Grim, a true crime podcast.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Warning.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: The following podcast and material intended more mature audience listener discretion.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: He's advised, got your drink ready?
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Kind of yeah?
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Kind of yeah? What's kind of yeah?
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I just have like hydration and pre workout. I'm
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: going to the gym after this. Well that's not very exciting.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: That's a drink though, I guess. Yeah. I wonder if
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: anyone would have been able to hear my ankle crack
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: in that intro.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Oh really did you hear it? I didn't. I was
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: so focused on because I'll be honest on that one.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I didn't write a script, so I was just like
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: off the cuffing it, so I was too focused on, uh,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: does this make sense? What should I say?
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: It probably would have been very faint, but I'm like,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I'm so old.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Go back and take a look. See if you can.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it will show up, but I'm like, dang,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: fair enough.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Well that's like I got up off the couch. Was
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: it last night and you heard my like your heat?
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: I thought it was like your back or something, your
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: damn hip.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: It was my hip and my knee. Yeah, I was
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: like there was a twofer in there. I'm not sure
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: which one you heard, but they both rad.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. I don't know if I've ever like
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: had my hip crack.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: No, I don't know.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Huh, that's interesting.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Well I clearly have.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm sitting here looking at your Mickey shirt.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, Mickey is so fun. Yeah, I'm wearing a Mickey
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: most shirt today.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Red Bubble has done me a dirty I've ordered too,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: and they're not coming in.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah it sucks, but we are getting ready to go
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: to Disneyland here, so disney World, a disney World sorry
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: over in Orlando, my bad. So yeah, I'm I'm just
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: getting the Disney love flowing with my Mickey shirt this point.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: You love it.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: It's a good shirt. I like it. I like it
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: a lot. Do you remember part one of this case.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Do you remember what happened at all?
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Bits and pieces for sure? Yeah?
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: You remember bits and pieces for sure?
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Do you want me to give you a little bit
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: of a rundown? I love that, Okay. I just got
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: to find my place here. Hold on, okay, So let
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: me see.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: It started off with Officer Clifford patrolling a certain area
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: where he always patrols at night, right, and he noticed
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: a suspicious Dodge Durango silver suv just kind of parking, idling,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: lights turned off, and pulling away, and he made note
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: of that license plate. He saw it a couple times.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Eventually there were abductions happening in the area of women
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: being abducted by a light colored suv. I mean, it's
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: a traumatic event. They didn't exactly remember all the details,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: but they remembered a light colored suv, and eventually, thankfully,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: with Officer Clifford writing down that license plate, they were
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: able to link those abductions where they all thankfully survived,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: to the person that Officer Clifford had saw. So Officer
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Clifford submitted the license plate, they ran it. They got
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: a hit on a person by the name of Jorge
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Aliva Torres, who were calling George, So they approach his vehicle,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: see some stuff inside this a little suspicious linking to
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: the crime. And eventually George comes up to the vehicle
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: as they're scoping it and they make an arrest on him. Now,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: they also get DNA from one of the assaults, the
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: sexual assault, and they put it in National Data Bank
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: and it comes up as a hit from a murder
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: from five years ago, an unsolved murder. Well, we'll get
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: into exactly the solved unsolvedness of the murder. But the
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: DNA comes back saying, this is a match on the
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: DNA found on that crime scene, and that is on
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: two young little girls by the name of Laura Hobbes
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: and Crystal to Bias. And that's where we left off.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, yeah, okay.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Does that ring any bells?
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Oh? It totally does. But yeah, let's hear hear these
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: these gals story, the poor things.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, is there anything else you want to specifically talk
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: about before we dive into this. Did you remember anything
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: specific that you want to mention or anything about the
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: case or about Yeah, like about I mean, we could
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: go into some philosophical stuff if you really want, but
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking the case, like, are you like, well, this happened, right,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: or do you have a question or something you really
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: want to bring up or point like, you know, put
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: an exclamation on or starbuy or anything.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: No, No, oh, okay, I remember. I guess One thing
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: that came back is that I thought that I was
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: like questioning whether he actually like did this shit, you know,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: because he the way I remember you did like a
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: bit of an introduction on him and stuff. Then he
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: actually comes across as like seeming a good person. He was.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: He was kind of like a nice kind of guy,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: and everyone described him as someone like don't give you
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: the shirt off his back kind of thing, right, But
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: he wasn't. But he wasn't.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: He really really wasn't.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: And at the time he was twenty two years old,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: so he's relatively young. And yeah, it just it didn't
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: seem like he would do it. But unfortunately the evidence
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: points too otherwise. And I'm not saying it in that
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: manner because hey, there's room for error. No, like the
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: DNA DNA from a rape kit came back to that
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: is him. Yeah, so it is him.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: And I remember, oh my gosh, that one quote too.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not stupid as you like put on a condom
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: or whatever. Yeah, oh my gosh, this sky is just filled.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Well I know.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's hear it.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go. So we're going to start off with
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Laura Gail Hobbs, who was born on September twenty fifth,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, in Wichita Falls, Texas. She was a
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: bright and imaginative second grader at Bellula Park Elementary School.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Her mother, Sheila and father Jerry adored her, and by
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: two thousand and five, Laura had developed a deep love
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: for reading, often bringing her stories to life with puppets.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: When she wasn't immersed in books, she was outside riding
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: her bike full of energy, often in the company of
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: her best friend and neighbor, Crystal Tobias. Now Crystal Tobias
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: was born on October twenty sixth, nineteen ninety five in Wacougan, Illinois,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: and lived with her older brother Alberto. Like Laura, she
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: loved being outside, playing dress up and picking dandelion flowers. Together,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Laura and Crystal were inseparable, always exploring, laughing, and enjoying
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: the adventures of outdoors and childhood all around. On Mother's
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Day on eight, two thousand and five, the two girls
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: told their families they were heading to a nearby park.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Both girls climbed onto Laura's bike, pedaling away with carefree spirits.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: At their typical age, it was a familiar routine, one
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: that neither family had any reason to worry about. But
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: as dinner time came and went with no sign of
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: the girls coming home, worry quickly set in.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Oh my heart, Okay, there are like three things that
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: you just said there that just like destroyed me already.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Why, well, the whole like the.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: One little girl with her puppets and the other one
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: picking dandelion flowers, and the fact that this is Mother's Day?
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Are you shitting me right now?
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: No? Dead serious?
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, Okay, Okay, we're in for it here.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're gonna be able to hold it together? Are
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: you gonna just rage?
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Probably? I'll probably rage. Yeah, I'm not gonna make any
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: promises right now, all right.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Well, when the families realized that their kids weren't just
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: late for dinner and that something else must seriously be wrong,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: they immediately contacted the authorities. A massive search was launched
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: that night, with law enforcement and the community members scouring
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: the area, hoping to find any trace of the girls
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Laura and Crystal. As dawn broke on May ninth, there
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: was still no sign of the two of them, but
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: hope remained strong and the search efforts intensified. The search
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: continued and Laura's father with Laura's grandfather were searching for
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: the two girls on a bike path in a wooded
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: area of Bellula Park nature area, which was very close
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: to Laura's home, when all of a sudden, down by
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: a ravine, they spotted Laura's bike in the bushes. The
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: two men immediately ran down the ravine and that's when
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: they made the gruesome discovery. There they were both girls
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: laying dead side by side. They had been beaten and
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: stabbed to death.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine making that discovery as a father or
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: grandfather or a parent or at all.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I know, you'd almost like hope that it would be
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: the authorities that would come across that, because that is
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: just like gut wrenching. Yeah, oh man, And here you okay,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: you see their bike. So I'm like, at first you're
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: probably thinking, oh, like they just fell down this or whatever,
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: like they're just probably hurt. Like you gotta go help them.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's that twinge of hope.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Hope, yeah, and then it just like gets just smashed.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Autopsies would later reveal that their killer was ruthless.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: In the attack on the girls, Laura had been stabbed
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: a total of eleven times and Crystal a total of twenty.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Though Laura was stabbed less, she was unfortunately the one
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: to be raped by the perpetrator as well, which is
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: how the DNA was ultimately collected at the scene.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Good God, holy shit, what kind of absolute like piece
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: of shit like these The girls are in grade two.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: This is unreal, like unreal.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I know, it's super fucked up now. Witness soon came
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: forward and told the authorities that they remembered seeing both
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Laura and Crystal riding bikes with someone else that evening.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: It was a local sixteen year old boy by the
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: name of Jorge Eliva Torres or George. Authorities quickly followed
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: up with that lead and they were given or sorry
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: with the lead that they were given, and they questioned
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: George about it. George was familiar with Laura. He was
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: actually friends with her older brother. In fact, according to him,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: he considered her to be like kind of like a
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: little sister. But when investigators questioned him, George simply denied
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: knowing anything about the girl's disappearance or what happened to them.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: It seems like due to his young age his connection
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: to Laura's family, authorities didn't really view him as a
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: likely suspect or someone who was capable of committing such
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: a crime, so they quickly brushed his name off and
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: his name was cleared of any involvement.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Instead, investigators began focusing on Laura's father. Oh, thirty four
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: year old Jerry Hobbes.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: No, I was not expecting this. Holy shit.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: See, Jerry had a criminal past which included convictions for
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: assaults and resisting arrest dating back to the nineteen nineties
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: in Texas. In two thousand and one, he was arrested
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: again after threatening and chasing a neighbor with a chainsaw,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: which led to a two year prison sentence.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: That's fine, Maybe the neighbor was a dick.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe he deserved it right. Yeah, but Jerry had
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: only been out of prison for about a month before
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: his daughter was murdered.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Oh no, okay, and sorry, is he the one that
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: found them?
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I believe so? Yes?
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, which also is like, you know, not great, no,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: oh no, okay.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: So imagine fine, your daughter in that state.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: And then literally being accused of that. M hmm. Wow.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: This is a doozy, Ben Well, doozy one.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Buckle up for this because after the discovery of the
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: two girls, after the discovery of Jerry's daughter, Jerry was
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: immediately brought in for questioning, and over the next twenty
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: four hours of questioning, he was subject to intense interrogation
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: and as a result of all the pressure he endured,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: by the end, Jerry confessed to the murders and signed
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: a police statement. Oh no, which shifted the focus even
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: farther away from George.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Uh huh huh okay. And the fact that, like George
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: was friends with the brother is very very disturbing to me.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't know to what degree on how
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: much he was friends because he was a little bit
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: of a an odd ball described when he was younger,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: like he's like he didn't quite fit in with everyone,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: but he was friends enough to at least be acquainted
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: with with his younger sister, right and say, it's like
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: she's like a little sister to meet.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: And she would have like trusted him.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, especially considering they were it was seen that they
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: were riding bikes with him that evening.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and also like you hear about that with interrogation,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: hey after I mean, because I can only imagine just
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: like how I don't know, just fucked up you are
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: after twenty four hours of that, right?
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Oh so the fact that he actually just signed it, though,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: that is something they obviously really did something to him.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Hey, definitely.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: The story of a convicted felon murdering his daughter and
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: her friend outraged the community, and the prosecutor was quick
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: to announce plans to seek the death penalty against Jerry Hobbes.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Jerry did try to recant his confession, but it was
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: too too late. His sentence had already been recorded and
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: the legal wheels were in motion.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Ben, does he get does he get killed? I have
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: like literally like goosebumps right now? Can you see that? Yeah?
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: I can Holy shit, you're not gonna say yet.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: I can't say yet.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Okay, this is too much. This is
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: too much for first thing in the fucking morning.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Well, authorities took the semen sample that was found at
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: the crime scene for analysis, and in two thousand and
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: eight three years later. Not sure why it took so
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: fucking long, but the DNA results came back and the
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: DNA did not match Jerry. Despite this revelation, though Jerry
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: was not released. Authorities argued that while the DNA wasn't his,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: it didn't necessity didn't necessity that didn't nessess, I can't
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: say the word necessarily didn't necessarily exclude him from participating
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: in the crime or murdering the girl.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: So just saying that he had an accomplished or.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Something, yeah, saying that he hasn't accomplished or someone else
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: did that part, which is fucked up though because it
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: as fucked they don't have a single shred of evidence.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: No what I mean, Like he did admit it though,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: kind of.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Right, other than the confession, you're right, yere, Yeah. So
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Jerry remained behind bars for five long years awaiting his
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: death penalty trial. His legal team fought fiercely to appeal
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the case, but little progress was made, so he was
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: imprisoned in two thousand and five. He was imprisoned for
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: five years. This leads us to twenty ten, when George's
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: DNA was entered into the national database after his arrest
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: for the string of violence and the assaults in Arlington, Virginia.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Investigators were stunned when his DNA matched the sample found
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: at the scene of Laura and Crystal's murder. M h.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: It was a shocking breakthrough, to say the least, especially
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: when they realized that George had already been questioned back
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and five regarding it originally and was
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: in fact the last person seen with the girls before
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: they had vanished.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Like, they could have easily got a DNA sample from
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: him at that time, right, Like.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: I don't maybe they would have to probably get a
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: warrant for it, and.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure how that they would have had enough, Yeah.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: And I'm not sure the process of getting it, Like,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't know they would have had to
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: get a warrant to get his DNA, But did they
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: have enough? Yeah, Now, I mean he was the last
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: one seen, so maybe that would be enough. Now, his
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: authorities dug deeper into George's past, they uncovered another troubling detail.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, at just sixteen years old,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: same year that these two girls were murdered. They found
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: that George had tied up and held a female friend
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: captive in his home, though she managed to escape. With
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: this new information, police began to realize just how deep
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: George's violent tendencies.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Ran, and there was no consequences for him tying up someone.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: No, I don't believe any charges were pressed or anything
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Goodness, gracious, was that before or after this? Like a
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: little girl murder?
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: I'm actually unsure.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Huh, Okay, this is just a gut wrenching that the
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: father had to stay in jail for five years. Well,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. You haven't said if he's
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: out yet, so I'll keep listening. But goodness.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Well. On June twenty seventh, investigators brought Georgie in for
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: questioning about the murders of Laura and Crystal. As expected,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: he denied any involvement, maintaining that he's innocent, right, But
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: with the DNA match, his denials were honestly futile. He
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: was caught at this point, and George now sat in
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: jail awaiting trial for the brutal killings.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, the rage I have towards this person.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, I'm unsure exactly when Jerry was let out
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: of prison for these crimes. But I'll save you the
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: suspense he was let out of prison. He was, he
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: did have his name cleared, but we will touch on
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: that at the end. Okay, However, George's crimes didn't actually
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: stop there. While in custody, sitting behind bars, he tried
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: to orchestrate a plan to have the Arlington, Virginia victims
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: that he previously attacked murdered.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: What the shit, Yeah, this case, it just keeps going.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, it keeps going, trust me.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Like I'm literally like, there can't be anything else and
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: it just keeps going.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, it keeps going, trust me. So, while in prison,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: George found a connection willing to carry out his twisted
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: plan to silence his victims. His goal was to eliminate them.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: That way, they couldn't testify against him, right, they couldn't
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: appear in court. So George even went as far as
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: to draw this individual that he connected to a detailed
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: map of one of the victims houses, the one that
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: he had already been in from memory from the night
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: of his attack. So he drew him a map, being like, yeah,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: here's a layout of their house, Like you can go
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: in and do this or this or whatever you want.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: But he is actually dumb though, Oh.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: He yes, he is as dumb as the Just like
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: you said, this case keeps going. Yeah, his dumbness level
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: keeps going to It's impressive actually, because there's just.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Okay, so say, I don't know if
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: this plan works or whatever, but each victim is killed,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Like I'm sorry, but it's you're not gonna look innocent
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: in that, right, There's just no way I know.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Now, the identity of the person that George initially planned
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: the murders with remains unclear, but the police did get
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: wind of his scheme, so in response, they planted a
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: jail house informant won by the name of Osama el Atari.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Now this was a man serving time for defrauding banks
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: of allegedly fifty three million dollars.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So now, according to reports, Osama was eager to
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: do anything to reduce his sentence in prison, making him
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: the perfect candidate to get close to George. And you know, hey,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: maybe where wire?
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Oh they actually used Okay for some reason, I just
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: thought you were telling us the story of like an undercover,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: but he's actually a criminal.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: No, they're like, if you like, if you're in prison,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: you're an actual criminal. If you inform for us. If
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: you like work with us, we'll reduce your sentence.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, yeah.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: So in August of twenty ten, Osama befriended George, and,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: wearing a wire, he secretly recorded their conversations. Over time,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: George opened up confessing in chilling detail to the murders
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: of Laura and Crystal. His accounts of the crime matched
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: the autopsy findings precisely, although he stopped short of admitting
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: that the sexual assault, which isn't exactly surprising, as we
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: all know what happens to people like that in prison regardless.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: During the recorded conversations, George also revealed his reaction to
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: the wrongful imprisonment of Laura's father, Jerry Hobbes for the murders.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: He said, and I quote, damn, I'm clean, I'm good.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: I ain't got shit to worry about.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, wow like that. I don't know the
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: fact that you would just have like, no, well, no,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: it's not surprising actually that he has no remorse over
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: that at all.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, you want to talk about the remorse part. Because
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: George's reasons for committing the murders, I mean they varied
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: a bit. He claimed it was random and other times
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: he suggested the girls had seen him delivering drugs or whatever,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: but regardless. Asama asked him if he ever actually felt remorse,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: and George responded, quote, does a lion feel remorse when
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: it kills a hyena?
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: What a fucking piece of sh wow that is.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: And this is years later, So you would think that,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you were in a complete disgusting dirt bag,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: that you would. Yeah, holy shit, this is just that's
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: unreal to me. That is unreal.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: On May twelfth, twenty twelve, George was officially charged in
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Illinois with the murders of Crystal Tobias and Laura Hobbes.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: It seemed as though he would finally face justice for
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: all of his horrific actions, but but authorities also managed
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: to uncover more truths regarding George. See The women George
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: attacked in Illinois were not his last victims. During his
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: taped confessions with Osama, George admitted to another crime he
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: called quote the perfect crime. He revealed that he was
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: responsible for the murder of a woman in the military
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: barracks by the name of Amanda Snell. Oh Man, I
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: told you it keeps going.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: A holy man Okay, the perfect murder, except that now
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: he's just like confessing this to some person that he
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: thinks he can trust. I guess. And he's known for.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: What like a day I told you his stupid in
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: this level like keeps going. I don't know if that's.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Honestly, Like I'm glad for that. Oh same, because you
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: know he needs to be held accountable for all of
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: this shit.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so George is a serial killer.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Yeah, as you take.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: A seem your coffee, I'm letting you soak in that.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah he is. I mean I already thought he can't
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: go much worse than my books, really like serial killer
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: or not, Like he already is just disgusting.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: So.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Amanda Snell was born on January nineteenth, nineteen eighty nine,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: in Palms, California. She was a daughter of her mate sorry,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: daughter of a marine mother, and followed in her footsteps
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: by enlisting in the Navy in August of two thousand
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: and seven. She was a graduate of Chaperol High School
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, Nevada, and Amanda was active in Junior
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: ROTC and devoted to her community service. She was known
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: for her loyalty, honesty, and relentless work ethic. By two
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: thousand and nine, Amanda had settled into her Navy career,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: stationed at the Pentagon. She had a bright future ahead
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: of her, but it was magically cut short. On July nineteenth,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, Amanda failed to report to work,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: a very highly unusual occurrence for someone as dependable as
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: she was. Concerned her supervisor her story. Her supervisor went
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: back to check on her. Amanda was never late, but
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: in this case she was so When she arrived there,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Amanda's door was unlocked, which was odd. They opened the
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: door and inside the room, it was neat. It was tidy,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: but something wasn't quite right. The bed was made, but
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: the pillows were missing. Sorry, the pillowcases were missing, and
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: the top sheet of the bed was also gone. After
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: searching the room a bit further, they opened up Amanda's
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: closet and made a horrific discovery. Amanda was dead. Her
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: body was crammed into a locker in a disturbingly unnatural position.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: She was found with her knees pressed into her torso,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: her feet against a drawer, and her head covered by
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: a pillowcase pushed down into her chest. An autopsy revealed
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Amanda died approximately thirty six to forty eight hours before
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: her body was discovered. There was no obvious signs of
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: sexual assault or over trauma beyond some small visible petikia,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: which is like those like tiny little pinhead blood spots
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: that occur from exphyxiation.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: However, they couldn't determine whether it was exphyxiation that caused
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: those or not.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: It's usually caused by that, but it's not always. And
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: they couldn't.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: This and she just like would have Oh my goodness,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: just been like a force to be reckoned with. Yeah,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: she sounded like she just her future was like unbelievably bright.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh no, she was a full on fucking badass. So,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: despite the strange circumstances surrounding her death and how she
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: was found, her cause of death death was ruled undetermined.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Oh okay. I thought for sec that the second they
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: are you gonna say suicide.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: No, it was undetermined determined, okay. George's confession to Asama
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: revealed that what authorities had already been able to unprove
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: that Amanda had been murdered, and as it turns out,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: George was the one responsible what he had considered the
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: quote perfect crime had finally come to light, all because
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: he couldn't help but brag. On May sixth, sorry May
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: twenty six, twenty eleven, a federal grand jury indicted George
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: of first degree murder of Amanda Snow. His first trial
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: took place in October twenty ten, though eight months after
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: the initial arrest for the assaults in Arlington.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: During the trial, all three of his victims testified against him,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: the three that he assaulted but all survived, that.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: He was wanting to murder yes, well, well try for
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: someone to murder them or whatever.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, And in the actual assaults, like he was trying
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: to push one in the suv and they managed to
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: get away and run, and then the other two girls
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: he left behind at the home tied up and then
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: took the other one off and then eventually dumped her,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: left her for dead, but she did still survive.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, So like he kind of tried to murder
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: them twice.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Really, he tried to murder at least one of them
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: twice for sure. Yeah, but all three victims testified in court.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: They're standing there looking him in the fucking eye, and
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: George just continued to deny any involvement in the attacks.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: That would not be easy for them.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: No, despite the claims, the evidence was just too overwhelming,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: and he was found guilty of rape and kidnapping. In
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: twenty ten of December, George was sentenced to five consecutive
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: life sentences along with an additional one hundred and sixty
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: eight years, and was sent to Red Onion State Prison
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: in Virginia.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Red Onion red.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Onion State Prison in Virginia. The place is apparently a
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: bit of a rougher prison.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: That's like quite a name, yeah it is.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: In February of twenty twenty twelve, George faced the federal
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: charges for the murder of Amanda Snell. Although he initially
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: considered representing himself, he ultimately opted for legal counsel council
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: after being deemed competent to stand trial. His trial began
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: on March thirty first of twenty fourteen, and over four days,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: the prosecution presented extensive evidence, including DNA from the crime scenes,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: his jailhouse confessions, and details of his previous violent behavior.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: On April eighth of twenty fourteen, George was convicted of
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Amanda Snell's murder and a few weeks later, the jury
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: sentenced him to death.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: I was wondering if that is going to happen.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. In twenty eighteen, George was transferred to Illinois to
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: stand trial for the two thousand and five murders of
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Laura Hobbes and Crystal to Bias. With DNA evidence firmly
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: linking him to that crime, George would accept a plea deal,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: pleading guilty to both murders in exchange for transfer out
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: of Red Onion Prison. He received two fifty year sentences.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: During sentencing, the judge called his actions quote cruel, cold blooded,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: and devoid of mercy.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: He should not have had the option for plea whatsoever,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Like why should he get anything at this point? He
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: doesn't like that prison, So what.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: I know, I agree, especially because it's like you're already
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: in prison for life, You're already sentenced to death.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: And now we're giving you like grace or whatever.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: So his sentence doesn't even matter. Yeah, all that is
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: is ensuring that the family gets some sort of comfort
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: in knowing that, you know what, he went to trial
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: and he is serving time for what he did and
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: they're giving him a plea.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't make any sense to me.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like you said, they're just all they're doing is
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: giving him some grace, that's it.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that he does not deserve.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So George remains incarcerated to this day while he
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: awaits his sentence of death. Meanwhile, as I mentioned, we
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: would touch on this at the end. In twenty thirteen,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Jerry Hobbes, who was wrongfully accused of killing his own
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: daughter and spent five years in prison, received a six
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: million dollars settlement from Lake County and had his name cleared,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: but ultimately lost much of his reputation as a father
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: and his daughter in the process.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: M M. Yeah, there's not like, I mean, no winning
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: with that. I mean, grant you he's set for life,
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: I guess now. But oh that I just that's so brutal.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And that is the story of Jorge Aliva Torres
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: and what he did to the three unnamed victims he
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: assaulted Laura Hobbes, Crystal Tobias, and Amanda Snell.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: He would have just kept going, oh yeah, guaranteed, like
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: he wasn't planning to stop.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: No, And there was some even there was some stuff
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I kind of omitted, which I just I thought maybe
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: a chat about it here at the end, while he
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: was in prison, like there was he was caught with
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: like a shank, he was he was threatening guards like
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: he's like man, he wrote a letter to his sister
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: saying that he's going to kill one of the prison
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: guard's kids. Like yeah, like there was some fucked up shit.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: He was even trying to do an orchestra behind bars. Wow, hey, yeah, No,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: this guy was a fucking psycho like he and serial
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: killer cold blooded, Like I can't even think of the
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: things to call this guy, and.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Yet he he's able to just be transferred to a
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: like a not so rough prison like that doesn't make
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: any sense to me, I know. Huh yeah, Wow, this case,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I feel like I just got off like a terrible
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: roller coaster that I didn't want to be on that
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: just kept getting shittier and shittier and I kept getting
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: sicker and sicker or something.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: That's pretty much what this case was. Now. Do you
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: understand was having such a hard time writing this case
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: last night? Yeah, because it's it doesn't.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: Make it's all over the place too.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah it is. It's all over the place, it doesn't end,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: and it's just like what the fuck?
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's Yeah, it's almost unbelievable. Hmm. And the fact
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: that he just had no remorse for like those I
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: don't know, I mean.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I know, sweet little girls, And does a lion feel
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: remorse when it kills a hyena? Like, are you fucking
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: kidding me? Get off your fucking stupid high horseyp piece
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: of shit.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, yeah.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: No one feels remorse about you sitting on death row.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I can tell you that.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, I almost spat my coffee yet you
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: with that last No, There's just nothing else to say
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: There's nothing else there is, so and I can't believe
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: like he would have gone away with every single fucking
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: one of these if it wasn't for Officer Clifford writing
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: down the yeah license plate and trusting his gut.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good for him. Gosh, that's that's a good police
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: officer right there. I like it. I agree, Yeah, good,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Like I hope that he goes to bed at night
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: being like yeah.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well allegedly allegedly he's he's I can't remember if
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: it was George she hangs a photo of or the
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: girl he hangs a photo from. It might be George
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: hangs a photo. I think it was his locker, hangs
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: a photo in his locker as a reminder with like
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: a little colt like trust your.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Gut, oh man.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so because of this case, like he's he's got
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: this reminder, this daily reminder that trust your gut.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: That's good, right, that's real good.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: So shout out to Officer Clifford because that gut feeling. Yeah,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: you put this fucker behind bars.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Well it's hard to trust your gut lots of times, right, well,
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: because yeah, your mind just makes excuses.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Well, and everyone else makes excuses for you too, like
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: they they know they brushed things off, and they did
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: for Officer Clifford at first too, because he was like, hey,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: you know what. The very first incident, he's like, you
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: know what, there was this silver suv that are seeing
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: the other day was suspicious and like, ah, that's nothing,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: you're being over zealous or whatever. Yeah, and then he
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: listened to them, and then the attack happened again, and
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: then he's finally like okay, I know, like there's something
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: with this, and he brings the license plate forward. They
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: search it and they get a hit on George, and
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: then it led into all of this, which actually it's
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: funny because this is totally it's not comparable, but it
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: kind of is. I remember I was thinking about this
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: just the other day. As a kid my Pokemon card collection.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: I listened to like those people around me, like my parents,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: my sisters, and like all my family and stuff, being
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: like all those aren't gonna be worth anything one day
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: and like I was a kid, right, and then I
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: was transitioning into like, oh, Pokemon's not quite as cool anymore,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: what am I doing with these cards? I don't collect them.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: I threw them in the garbage because what everyone else said,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: I probably threw away like ten to twenty grand worth
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: of cards today. Oh jeez, right, because I listened to
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: other people. Yeah, but I was like, no, they got
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: to be worth something.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: And then I was like, no, well, why didn't that
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: happen with my beanie babies that I didn't throw in
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: the garbage?
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Maybe those ones? Yeah? Have you seen that photo of
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: like the beanie babies being separated in court in like
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety something or whatever. No, no, there's a photo
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: of a couple on the floor of a courtroom separating,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Like who's going through?
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, are you serious? I didn't know what
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: you meant by that?
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: But what Yeah, I'm looking this up right now.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Oh man, what this is recently?
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Sorry, No, it's like the nineties, like in the height
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: I mean yeah, when I was collecting them, I went
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: to like I was pretty in depth.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: There's holy shit, they're literally on the courtroom floor in
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: front of a judge and they're separating the pile into
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: two because they're divorcing.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, that is amazing. That's some of the best shit
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: I've ever seen. Right there, I'd do that.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: But it is funny how how so many people will
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: just they'll brush you off on your thoughts and your
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: gut feeling.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: So you need to have that that gotten, trust it
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: and and learn that hey, just because someone else doesn't
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: think so, it's not their gut feeling, it's my gut.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Stick to your guns kind of thing.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: So Officer Clifford shout out to you. I'm going to
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: call Officer Clifford the badass of the day on that
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: one alone.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Ye, So yeah, well.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Well done, Thank you. I appreciate it. This is a
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: Patreon case that was recommended in our in our chat
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: on Patreon, So if you want to be a part
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: of Patreon, you can go ahead sign up and link
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: is down below. You get the all behind the scenes stuff,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: you get the exclusive content, exclusive episodes, and of course
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: you can have the chance to be like, hey, check
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: out this case and we might do it.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: So yeah, totally.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: All the links in the description. We appreciate you guys
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: being here. We are just an indie podcast, sorry, not
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: just We are an indie podcast, produced, created, researched, recorded, edited,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: all that stuff in our tiny home by us two.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: We have no one up that we're answering to. It's
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: us in our show and you guys here listening, and
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: because of you guys supporting us, we get to keep
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: doing this. So thank you so much. It means the world.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: It sure does. It's awesome. So until next time.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Until next time, stay wicked.