Latest / Pod Save America / “Horny for Bipartisanship.” (with Beto O’Rourke!)

Transcript

“Horny for Bipartisanship.” (with Beto O’Rourke!) · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Lovett's off today after he had a busy weekend of
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: writing jokes for Elon Musk.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Uh, I am so happy.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I think you did a great job.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: I'm so happy that I didn't watch it and I
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: didn't tweet about it. And I'm just going to, you
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: know what I'm going to do? I'm just going to
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: go on with my life. You know what?
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I'm jealous of you because I did watch it. And
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: 15 minutes in, Emily's like, why are we doing this
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: to ourselves? And I said, that's a good point. It's
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: a good point.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Go to bed.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: On today's show, President Biden is set to meet with
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Republicans who are blaming him for a disappointing jobs report.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: More states follow Georgia in passing voter restrictions. And Beto
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: O'Rourke is here to talk about Texas's new voter suppression
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: legislation and the grassroots movement trying to fight it. Few
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: quick updates before we begin. One Today's Gideon Resnick will
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: be joined by a rotating roster of guest hosts this
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: week while Akilah's on vacation, including Hysteria's Aaron Ryan, America
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Dissected's Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, and journalist Travelle Anderson. Each episode
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: will be a jam-packed 20 minutes of the day's biggest
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: news and important stories you may have missed, so check
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: it out. And don't miss the latest episode of Take Line,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: where Jason Concepcion and Rene Montgomery sit down with TV
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: producer Alan Yang to discuss the upcoming season of Master
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: of None and his efforts to increase visibility of AAPI
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: stories in his work. Don't miss Take Line. All right,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: let's get to the news. In the wake of last
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: week's disappointing jobs report, the economy added only 266,000 jobs,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: even though a million had been forecast. The president will
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: meet with the top four Republican and Democratic leaders in
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Congress on Wednesday and a group of Republican senators on
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Thursday to see if both parties can find the sort
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: of common ground. Gets Washington all horny. Will Republicans show
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: up at the White House with an open mind? Well,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: here's Mitch McConnell last week. Yeah, 100% of my focus
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: is on stopping this new administration. And here's Kevin McCarthy.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Democrats are destroying this nation. We've watched the greatest expansion
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: of government and the socialist liberal agenda. You've got the
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: largest missed jobs report in more than two decades.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Have you ever heard two people sound more willing to
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: sit down and compromise?
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Man, nothing like you mentioning Washington being horny and then
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: hearing Mitch McConnell's voice immediately after. That is two things
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: that don't go together very well. So I don't know, John. Like,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I get why Biden's doing the meeting, right? Actually, I
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: think he sincerely believes in politics. compromise and the value
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: of it. And I think his team is also smart
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: enough to know that voters want to see him try.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: But I think the question is always bipartisanship at what cost?
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: And is there any realistic chance that those two goobers
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: whose audio we just heard will cut a deal? I
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: have no confidence that they can deliver. You and Dan
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: talked about this. Liz Cheney is being run out of
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: leadership for giving Joe Biden a fist bump in part.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: So that doesn't make me hopeful. It's so performative. We're
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: going through the motions. I hope it doesn't end with
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: the press blaming Biden in some way, despite the reams
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: of evidence that the Republicans don't want to deal. We
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: have to believe these guys. Mitch McConnell in 2019 called
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: himself the Grim Reaper. He brags about stealing Supreme Court seats.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: He said his biggest priority was making Obama a one-term president.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Kevin McCarthy is the same. So I think Washington, they
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: have this nostalgic view of these good old days when
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill got together for a drink.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: They got together for a drink, they cut a deal.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: But those days are long gone. The resulting policies, by
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: the way, were often very bad. And those backroom deals
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: that everyone like funds over were just like old white
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: guys from the same social class. And they did things
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: that harmed other people. So I don't know. I don't
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: good for Biden for trying. Hope springs eternal, but I
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: don't think it's going to work.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: The party is in the thrall of a guy who
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: tried to steal the last election and then incited an insurrection.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: What are we thinking? Look, you mentioned the media. I'm
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: fine with Biden sitting down with them too, right? We
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: all know voters want the parties to come together. A
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: lot of voters, Biden wants to get caught trying. We've
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: talked about all this a million times before. But I
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: see already this week is being framed as like, can
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Biden get Republican support for his plans? And it should
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: be seen as like, Will Republicans refuse to support another
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: bill that's hugely popular with most Americans, including Americans of
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: all parties? Like that's the frame heading into this week.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: And then again, like my question is, OK, so I've
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: seen some people say Shelley Moore Capito is like genuine
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: in her desire for compromise. But can you find nine
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: more votes? I can't.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we'll see at the end of this week.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Republicans have been blaming Biden's policies for Friday's weak jobs report,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: specifically the American Rescue Plan's extra $ 300 per week in
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: unemployment benefits. Congresswoman Nancy Mace tweeted, quote, is putting pressure
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: on lawmakers everywhere to make the cuts. How do you
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: think Biden and the Democrats should handle this line of
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: attack that unemployment benefits are keeping people out of work?
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: So, I mean, on the politics, I kind of feel
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: like this is a layup. You know, like I can
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: imagine like the 2008 Obama campaign speech where he would
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: have had fun with it. And you'd be like, the
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Republican Party thinks that this pandemic has been too easy
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: on you all. They think that life is just too good.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: So it's time to strip away some money from families
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: who are still worried about getting sick or have no
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: access to childcare, or we're trying to figure out how
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: to work and juggle remote learning. So like, I don't know,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: am I crazy to like the politics on this fight?
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I like the politics on it too. I mean, there's
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of things that economists are saying that we
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: can like dive into. Yeah, I'll get to that later, yeah. Yeah,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: the simple part here is, it is, without a doubt,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: there are millions and millions of Americans looking for work.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: There are still fewer jobs. And if you're someone who's
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: looking for work and there's not a job available and
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: you were forced to stay home because of a pandemic
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: through no fault of your own, nothing else. And it's
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: just because you didn't want to get sick and die.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Then yeah, you really think that an extra $ 300 a week,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: which is by the way, temporary. It's going to expire
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: this fall. You really think that that's a huge fucking problem?
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I don't. I think it's a fine fight to have.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: I think you're right.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: And again, obviously, the jobs report was not good news.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: We're about 10 million jobs short of where we were
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: before the pandemic started. So that's why you saw The
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Economist hoping for this big number in that report. But
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: I don't think we should overreact to one jobs report. Again,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I'm not an economist, but I read a lot of
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: smart people. And all of them seem to be saying
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: the same thing, which was, this data is just weird.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: It could end up getting revised. It could be seasonality.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: It could be the challenge of measuring things during a pandemic,
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: or it could be a sign of a bigger structural
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: problem that Biden's going to have to address. But I
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: saw Austin Goolsbee, who was Obama's chair of the Council
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: of Economic Advisors, saying that the research he's done and
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: the data he's seen shows that the biggest impediment to
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: getting people back to work is, surprise, surprise, they continue
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: to be scared of getting sick. There's a lack of childcare.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Schools have been closed. So does extended or expanded unemployment
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: insurance give people the option of staying home instead of working? Yes,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: that was the point. It could be contributing to a
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: softer number, but it seems silly or frankly kind of
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: nuts to me to have all these Republican governors falling
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: all over themselves to cut off UI payments when less
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: than half the country is fully vaccinated. I don't think
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: that Their voters are looking to the Chamber of Commerce
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: for advice here. It's really a medical question.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Biden spoke about this today and announced some measures to
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: get more people back to work. You know, he mentioned
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: something that I hadn't thought about, which is that this
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: unemployment report, the survey was taken before everyone was eligible
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: to be vaccinated. That's also something to keep in mind
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: that all these jobs reports reflect the prior month. And
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: so there's a lot more. So next month, you know,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: could be better for that. The other thing that Biden
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: mentioned again, and this is from The New York Times.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Federal regulations prohibit people from continuing to collect unemployment insurance
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: if they turn down suitable work. So if you're offered
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: a job in your unemployment, you can't turn it down
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: or so you don't get unemployment. So the idea that
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: everyone's just gaming the system, it doesn't fit with the
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: actual law. And then the other thing that Biden announced today,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: in addition to what you mentioned, you know, child care
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: and health concerns. is the state and local government funding
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: in the American Rescue Plan hasn't actually gone out to
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: states yet. The plan passed, but it hasn't gone out
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: to states. So once that money is released, and Biden
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: talked about how it's being released today, you should start
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: to see some state and local government jobs come back,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: which is obviously a big part of the employment picture.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: So I agree. We always said this in the White House, too,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: and we had some We had a lot of months
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: of pretty shitty jobs reports. You never freak out over
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: one jobs report and, you know, wait to see what
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: the next month is. But obviously, Republicans are going to
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: use this as an excuse to hurt more people.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Like governors who cut unemployment benefits right now guaranteed there's
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: going to be millions of people out there who are
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: desperately looking for work. And this was their only lifeline.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: And now they're not going to happen. That's just what's
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: going to happen.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, stock prices went up the day this
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: report came out. So Wall Street seemed to think it's fine,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: or maybe they're just counting on the Fed to prop
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: them up still. But to get even wonkier, the leisure
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: and hospitality sector are the ones you hear complaining the
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: most about labor shortages or not being able to find
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: people to be waiters, et cetera, et cetera. But those
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: sectors added 331,000 new jobs, which was 100,000 over the
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: month before. So that sector actually did well. And some
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: of the other ones were what were holding the numbers down.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Just a brief aside here. It's funny that we are
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: having this kind of like wonky conversation about unemployment insurance
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: and like, you know, sort of the traditional Republican establishment
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: is now jockeying to try to cut off these funds.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: And Trump is not even part of this conversation because
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: he I spent the day yesterday accusing a horse of
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: being a junkie.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: So like it just there's two there's two worlds of
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: political discourse.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: You texted me that statement yesterday and I didn't think
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: it was real. I actually thought it was one of
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: those accounts that does like pretend Trump statements. Yeah. Even
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: our Kentucky Derby winner Medina Spirit is a junkie. This
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: is emblematic of what is happening to our country.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: The junkie.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I don't even like where that come from. Why did he?
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Who knows?
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: We don't have to think about that anymore.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: That's a nice. In general, how do you think Biden
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: should balance the desire to convey optimism about the economy
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: with the need to acknowledge reality? He said on Friday,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: our economy is moving in the right direction, but it's
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: clear we have a long way to go, which is
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: a line I swear Obama must have said like at
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: least a dozen times in his first term. This is
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: what we dealt with all the time.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, I think Biden has a lot more
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: running room to be optimistic because the situation is a
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: hell of a lot more optimistic than it was when
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Obama took over in 2009. I mean, we're at the
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: beginning of a recession, not the end. The current economic
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: problems are the result of the coronavirus. 60 plus percent
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: of adults in the US have now had one dose
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: of the vaccine. So things are getting better, but obviously
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: we're not there yet. Cases are going down, but like Cities, states,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: they're getting this money. Workplaces are opening back up. So
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people will notice that their
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: lives get better, are different. Hopefully, they will feel more
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: secure about their economic situations or at least have the
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: opportunity to get a new job or change their lives
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: in a way that they couldn't a year ago when
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: we all were stuck at home and scared to death.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: So we started the show by talking about how the
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: economy gained 266,000 jobs in April. That was a huge disappointment.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: I was looking back at the stats from 2009, 10, 11.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: The average monthly job gain for 2009 was negative 421,000.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: The average monthly job gain in 2010 was 86,000 a month.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: So things were just way worse. Obama was stuck making
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: this horrible counterfactual argument that things would have been worse
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: if not for the Recovery Act. But, you know, that
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: might be true, but it's not at all satisfying. If
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: you're rip shit at Wall Street, you're struggling to pay
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: off your debt. You know, you're just an average person.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no one at rallies is holding up could have
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: been worse signs.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Could have been worse.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: No, no. No, I mean, look, I'm very pro-optimism. I
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: think it's one of the lessons I feel like I've
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: learned from the Obama years is, you know, we always
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: had to balance optimism and caution, I think. But I also,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: the other lesson I took is like, I think your
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: job as president is shouldn't necessarily be to analyze the
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: state of the economy pessimistic or optimistic it should be
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: to your job is to fix the economy and so
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: like Biden should be out there talking about how you
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: know during the pandemic the wealthiest Americans and biggest corporations
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: got even richer while most people and small businesses fell
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: behind and now it's time to make sure everyone succeeds
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: right like You just got to be always out there
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: fighting instead of having to be a barometer about whether
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: the economy is good or bad or somewhere in between,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: because that's what's going to get people going. You know,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: we talked at the beginning about the White House meeting
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: this week and you mentioned Shelley Morcapito's counteroffer. So it's
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: nearly $ 600 billion, but it narrowly defines infrastructure as roads
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: and bridges, public transit systems, rail, water, airports and broadband.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell actually said on Sunday, I thought this was weird.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: that he could be OK with up to $ 800 billion
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: in infrastructure spending. Biden's plan is, of course, $ 2 trillion.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: So it does seem like the Republicans are coming closer
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: to him than they did in their counteroffer on the
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: American rescue plan. But like, how seriously do you think
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Biden and Democrats should take the offer? And like, how
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: much should they be willing to compromise here? We started
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: talking about this, but there is sort of a balance
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: here about like, how long do you want to give
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: these people?
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: What do you think?
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the how long are you going to
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: let this drag out is my biggest concern. I think
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: a lot about the protracted conversations about the Affordable Care
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Act and how much time we let to kind of
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: strip away. Real quick though, John, I want to do
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: a quick pat on the back for listeners because I
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: think these moments are instructive because Biden's infrastructure plan is
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: $ 2 trillion, right? So the GOP alternative is $ 600 to
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: $ 800 billion, right? The COVID relief bill is $ 1. 9 trillion.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: The Republican alternative was $ 600 billion. So these are good
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: moments for everyone who worked hard to elect Democrats in 2018, 2020,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: and the Georgia runoffs. The difference between Ossoff and Warnock
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: being in the Senate and us having control of it
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: and not is literally trillions of dollars in the pockets
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: of real people. So again, good for you listeners.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Also, I think, by the way, it could be... The
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: reason that their counteroffers are this high, as high as
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: they are, is because Biden and the Democrats are in power.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: It could be zero if the Republicans are in power.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be zero. It could be COVID is over.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: We don't need any money, right? It wouldn't surprise me
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: at all. I think there's, again, kind of zero value
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: in compromising for the sake of compromising. And I think
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: that Biden should fight for the amount of spending that
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: he thinks we need to solve the problem and build
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: the roads and bridges we need. And again, I don't
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: hear a lot of people being pissed that the last
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: COVID relief bill was done via reconciliation and not a
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: bipartisan bill. Seems like everyone's fine with that. The problem
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: per usual, right, is Joe Manchin, who said he doesn't
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: want to use reconciliation to pass this bill. And I
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: guess my question is, like, how much are we going
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: to have to come down to get all the Democrats
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: on board? Republicans have also rejected any tax increases to
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: pay for the bill. So they just want to gut
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: other things. That seems like a nonstarter to me. Manchin
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: has been okay with some corporate tax increases, but he
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: doesn't want to get all the way to the 28%
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: increase that Biden wants to do. So I think there
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: will be a negotiation. I just kind of doubt that
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: it's ultimately going to be with Shelley Moore, Capito, or
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: any of the Republicans. It's going to be sort of
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: an intra-democratic fight because I just don't think we're going
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: to get 10 of them to come along with something.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm just too pessimistic.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, as you mentioned, this is all about
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: what Prime Minister Joe Manchin will abide. And, you know,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: he said various things on this. I think he said
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: more hopeful things on this than he said about HR1 lately.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: But on this, you know, he's whined about reconciliation, like
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: you said. He hasn't ruled it out on this. At
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: one point, he said, I could see $ 4 trillion for
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: a big jobs package. Like you said, he hasn't ruled
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: out tax increases. He's ruled out the 28%, you know,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: going back to that rate for corporations. But he said
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: he would go a little bit lower, like maybe 25%.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: I actually think the shit's going to hit the fan
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: because Republicans have ruled out corporate tax increases and they
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: want to pay for this with user fees, which are basic,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: which are just taxes on working class and middle class people. So, again,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I think this is another great fight for Democrats to have.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: We want to create a bunch of jobs and build
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: a bunch of infrastructure and tax the biggest corporations for this.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: The Republicans want to do it and tax you.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Or tax electric vehicles or something. That was one
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: of the other pitches I saw.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't see that.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: What if we just told Manchin that bipartisanship is choogy?
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Do you think that would get him to move off
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: his position?
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Tommy, I don't want to talk about that. I didn't
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: read that story. I think it was horrible.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: I really tried to work it into a lot of
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: conversations at the wedding I was at over the weekend.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: And I'm just going to say I had limited success.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: I would like to interview those wedding guests about how
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: they felt when you tried to talk to them about that.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: You know, some of them got the irony. I think
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: some probably didn't. But, you know, here we are.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: But, you know, like there is this thought that they'll
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: pass they'll pass a bipartisan, smaller infrastructure bill that's focused
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: on traditional infrastructure. And then the Democrats will throw all
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: the rest of their goodies away. into the second reconciliation
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: bill and just pass that with only democratic votes. I don't,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: I'm skeptical about that strategy.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Will Manchin support that?
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, will Manchin support that? Will
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: progressives rightly think, OK, you're going to just basically give
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: us an IOU and we get the next bill. And
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: this one, you know, the bill we're passing now isn't
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: going to have any of the really important stuff that
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: you campaigned on. People are going to get tired after
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: passing another big bill. Like there's going to be more
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: complaints from the Republicans about spending too much money and
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: a deficit and tax increases in inflation, all this bullshit. Like,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I think you just got to act now. as much
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: as you can. That said, I realize that they're all
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: just going through the motions partly for voters, but partly
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: for Joe Manchin. You need to go through the motions
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: for Joe Manchin to at least show partisanship. But I
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: do think that Republicans having ruled out tax increases on
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: this at all to pay for it is very telling.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: And I don't think they're going to, unless they just
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: pass a bill, they all decide to pass a bipartisan
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: bill and not pay for it, which also seems somewhat
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: unlikely at this point, at least from the Republican side.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: The Manchin motions in the ocean? Yeah, I do. I
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: do think it's very performative.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: He lives on a houseboat, John. I do think that
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: the lesson from the 2009 experience is we all thought
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: that the Recovery Act was going to be part one
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: of a multi-part stimulus effort, and then that never happened.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: So I think everyone is right to be a little
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: bit skeptical of the value of IOUs in Washington, especially
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: when you have a narrowly divided Senate and things are
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: always quite precarious with a bunch of really old lawmakers.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: That is correct. Thank you. So you're talking about those
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Republicans in Washington this week. They're also busy trying to
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: replace Liz Cheney with a voter fraud conspiracy theorist who
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: is willing to overturn the last election. Meanwhile, Republicans in
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: state legislatures are focused on making the next election harder
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: to vote in and easier to steal. In Florida, Ron
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: DeSantis held an event where he banned all local media
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: outlets except for Fox News so he could sign what
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: he calls the strongest election integrity measures in the country.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: In Texas, Republicans just advanced a bill that would make
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: voting more difficult than in just about any other state.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: And in Arizona, Republicans in the state Senate have subpoenaed
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: all the ballots in Maricopa County for a hand recount
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: that's being run by a firm called Cyber Ninjas, whose
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: CEO believes that Trump lost Arizona because the machines were rigged.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Sounds super fair. Want to get into Arizona in a
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: second because it might be both the nuttiest and the
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: most dangerous story of all.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: But can you give us a rundown of some of
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: the worst provisions in the Florida and Texas laws?
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think one really cool new theme
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: is passing laws that create penalties for election officials. I
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: think that's fun. That's a fun twist. So the Texas
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: bill would make it a felony to provide voters with
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: an application to vote by mail if they hadn't requested one.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: So if you recall, it's very funny, the pandemic gets
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: left out of the voting rights story. It's like, again, yes,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: there were some voting access rules changed during the last
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: election because it was a global pandemic and people didn't
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: want to die. trying to vote. But what some election
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: officials did was send everyone an application to vote by mail.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: This Texas bill would make that illegal. In Iowa, you
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: could get fined up to $ 10, 000 for just sort of
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: like a technical infraction of election rules, which some county
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: auditors think could include things as small as opening up
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: a polling place late. So you open up at 9.02
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: and you get fined 10 grand. The Florida law could
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: create a $ 25, 000 fine for election supervisors if a ballot
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: box is left unsupervised or is available off hours. So
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: they really want to make it harder for working people
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: to vote after hours by limiting access to these drop boxes.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: So like a lot of these bills are just kind
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: of like the greatest hits of voter suppression. There's restricting
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: early voting. There's making it harder to vote by mail,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: less access to drop boxes, voter ID laws. All of
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: them are predicated on the big lie The weird thing
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: about some of this is like if you look at
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: a state like Florida, they've traditionally really benefited from vote
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: by mail efforts. So it's weird that they're doing this
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: to themselves. It's a solution in search of a problem
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: because Ron DeSantis himself said that the 2020 election was secure.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: And yet now they're embarking on this effort to make
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: it harder to vote. So it's ugly stuff.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you see some Republican strategists already saying that they're
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: a little bit worried that some of these new voter
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: restrictions could actually hurt their own voters, which is just
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: a very interesting Republican thing to do. But I totally
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: agree with you that to me, the most alarming provisions
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: are basically targeting election officials. And I think that fits
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: with sort of the scariest thing that Republicans are doing
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: around voting and elections lately anyway. And it's remember in Georgia,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: I think the worst part of the Georgia law is
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: that you basically have the Republican state legislature taking over
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: both the state election board and having more power to
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: purge officials from the county election boards. And now these
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: laws are basically intimidating nonpartisan election officials or election officials
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: that may be partisan, but not as partisan as some
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: of the politicians, right? We saw like a lot of
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Republican election officials do the right thing in 2020. And
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: the Republican Party wants to purge these people so that
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: next time there's an election, they have fucking MAGA hacks
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: in there who are going to be very willing to
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: overturn the election or not certify an election or anything
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: like this. And it's going to drive all the good
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: nonpartisan election officials out of the business because they're afraid
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: they're going to go to jail or get fined $ 25, 000
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: for like accidentally breaking a rule. Like it's really terrifying.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: It really is ugly stuff.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the shit show in Arizona. So.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden won the state because he won Maricopa County,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: home to Phoenix. About two-thirds of the state's vote comes
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: from Maricopa. In November, the county's Republican-run elections board did
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: a hand count of sample ballots, found nothing wrong, and
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: certified Biden's win. And the Republicans on that board were
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: good enough to say, yeah, he actually won. Then earlier
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: this year, the county also ordered, because a bunch of
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: fucking Trump conspiracy theorists were out there saying, oh, it
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: was a fraud, it was, you know, whatever. So the
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: county's like, all right, we will order a forensic audit
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: conducted by three different independent firms again. And they found
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: nothing wrong again. But that still wasn't enough for all
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: the Trump fans. So now the Republicans in the state
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: legislature have stepped in and handed over two million ballots
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: to the cyber ninjas. Again, this is a real firm.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: They have stock photos of ninjas on the website. And
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: this is for a recount that's being partially funded. The recount,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: because Cyber Ninjas only had $ 150, 000 from the legislature to
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: do the recount. So it's being partially funded by the Overstock.com CEO,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: who's the big Trump conspiracy theorist fan, right? And OAN,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: One America News Network, which got special broadcasting rights, even
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: as they were kicking other journalists out of the recount.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: What other terrifying details have I left out? And how
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: worried should people be about this?
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: There's so many. I mean, so the founder of Cyber Ninjas,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: a random Florida-based company, has tweeted conspiracy theories about the elections,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: including ones about rigged voting machines. So the founder of
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: the company doing this recount has already expressed pretty clearly
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: that he believes there was fraud. So they're looking for fraud.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: They're their methodology, such as there is any, until a
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: judge forced them to. Almost all of the election observers
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: are Republicans, and they had to sign NDAs, which seems
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: to defeat the purpose of being an observer. One of
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: the guys hired to count ballots was at the January
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: 6th Stop the Steal riot.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Amazing.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Photographs on the steps of the Capitol. So what this
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: story really tells you, and this is just sort of
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: like the latest data point, is there are these really
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, for lack of a better word, just insane
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: sounding fringe conspiracy theories that we hear about. We laughed.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: It used to be the sort of the things of
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: email forwards. And now they're just kind of getting mainlined
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: to Trump himself into the halls of power in some
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: of these state governments because these guys are looking for
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: bamboo fibers because there's a theory, I guess, about China
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: flying in ballots. And they're also looking for watermarks on
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: ballots because I guess that's a QAnon conspiracy theory. But
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: why would you try to bring fake ballots into an
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: election and then watermark the fraudulent ones. You know what
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: I mean?
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Or also you just get, we also just skipped over.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, the bamboo, they're looking for bamboo because
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: they probably came from China. You know, you know, China,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: when they make ballots, fraudulent ballots, and then ship them
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: to the U S they always make them out of bamboo. I, I, I,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I really like this.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: The department of justice is worried about what's going on
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: and said something about it. And an Arizona state Senator said,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: threatened to imprison people from DOJ if they kept talking
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: about it. And then, you know, you read these stories
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: about what Trump is up to in Mar-a-Lago, and he's
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: reportedly completely obsessed with this specific effort, gets updates multiple
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: times a day. So, you know, there we go.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, it is funny a lot because it's so crazy,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: but there's also terrifying. Like, you know, one of the
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: reasons the Justice Department has stepped in is because there
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: is this plan to go to voters' homes to verify
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: that they had actually cast ballots. Can you imagine this
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: crew of people who, one of them was at the
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: fucking insurrection, and they're going to knock on people's homes
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: in Maricopa County to ask if you, I mean, this
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: is just, it's really, really dark shit that's going on there.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and also, like, okay, let's say these guys found fraud,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: which they won't because there wasn't any. They have no recourse.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, we should let people know that. Yeah, there's
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: no– nothing can happen if they find fraud.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Right. All you can do is just the classic we're
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: just asking questions bit where you are continually undermining faith
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: in elections in the United States and undermining voter confidence.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: And like long-term, I guess we don't really know how
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: that cuts. Like I think Trump undermining faith in elections
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: in Georgia– seems to have contributed to Republicans losing in Georgia.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: So you can see this going both ways. But I
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: think like a nihilistic view about democracy is not a
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: good thing for anybody long term.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: No, one of the one of the Republican state senators
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: who voted to subpoena the ballots actually told The New
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: York Times, this is making us look like idiots. It's
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: an embarrassment to be a state senator at this point.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Like that is true.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: You should have thought about that before you fucking voted
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: to hand over a bunch of ballots to cyber ninjas, right?
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: So New York Times reported this weekend, they had a
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: story about like, what's the Democrat strategy to sort of
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: fight all of these voter suppression laws. They said that
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: the party is quote, relying on broadly worded warnings and
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: urgent pleas that are designed in part to build political
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: pressure on the White House, Congress and the Justice Department
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: to act as well as to engage their supporters to
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: mobilize in advance of the 2022 midterm elections. You know,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: I just talked to Beto. We'll hear that interview in
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: a second about what can be done about Texas now. And,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: you know, he said he's hopeful that now that the
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: bill's in committee and, you know, Democrats have some leverage
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: because there's been so much public pressure that they can
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: sort of strip out even more of the worst provisions
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: they've already stripped out some of the worst provisions in
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the bill a similar thing happened in georgia because of
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: public pressure so you get you know you do get
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: some of these provisions either softened or taken out of
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: this but overall like they're going to pass there's a
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: legal strategy and then there's us hoping for hr1 like
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: what what is that all we got what do you
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: think Yeah.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, we don't have a lot of great options.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: A lot of these states that are pushing these bills,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Republicans have total control of the legislature and the governor's office.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: So we can make noise about stuff. We can try
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: to embarrass them, but it's hard to actually change the bill.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: The Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act back in 2013.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: So a bunch of states that had voter suppression histories,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: they used to have to pre-clear their voter law changes
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: by the Department of Justice. Now that's not the case.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: So now these legal challenges are just like, law by law,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: case by case, and that takes a lot of time
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: and money. And the courts are stacked with MAGA Trump
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: judges anyway. So I think these protests are great. Good
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: for Beto for doing that. I think that pressure on
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: corporations to take a stand against these bills have been important.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: I'm glad we're talking about it, but ultimately, we got
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: to get something through Congress. There's the John Lewis Voting
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Rights Act would restore parts of the Voting Rights Act
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: that we just talked about that had been gutted and, again,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: required that preclearance um, for States changing their, their voting laws. Um,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: then there's HR one, the for the people act, which
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: is this, you know, much more expansive bill that would
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: deal with the gerrymandering campaign finance, voting rights, voter registration,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: et cetera. But, you know, as we've said a billion
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: times on the show, uh, to pass any of that,
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: you gotta get rid of the filibuster. Joe Manchin doesn't
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: want to do that. Kiersten Sinema wasn't want to do that.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: So we'll see. I mean, the S one, the Senate
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: version of HR one is getting marked up, I think
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: on Tuesday. So there are going to be some changes
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: made to it this week. Maybe we'll know more.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Last we heard from Joe Manchin on HR1 was April 30th,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: where he told a talk radio host that he would
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: vote no on the original version of the bill as
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: it exists today, he said, which, of course, it will
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: be changed this week. So hopefully there's some changes that
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: may get his support. He then said, quote, the vote
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: should be accessible, it should be secured, and it should
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: be fair. And if states are subverting that, then we
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: should put guardrails on it. Do you count that as
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: a hopeful Joe Manchin comment?
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I guess so. I don't know. I mean, look.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Hey, Joe, states are subverting it. It's happening. Yeah, it's happening.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Look around.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, right. Sometimes you're just like, do you
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: read the paper, man? Like, it's all happening, right?
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Like, hopefully he's just giving himself some flexibility.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: But I don't know. Without getting rid of the filibuster,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: it's hard to know what we can do.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I will say that I get that the Biden administration
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: is very focused on the American jobs plan and the
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: American families plan right now. You got to take one
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: thing at a time. I know that Schumer and all
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: of them are sort of targeting a floor fight on H.R.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: one in August.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: This summer. So I know there's there's some time here,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: but I kind of think it's it's it's time to
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: turn up, turn up the volume on this from the
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: if you're the Biden administration and if you're Congress, like
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: they got to make a little more noise. Joe Biden said,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: you know, a couple hundred words about this less in
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: his joint session speech. You know, when Dan and I
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: talked to Psaki about this, you know, she was like,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: it's Joe Manchin. What are we going to do? And again,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: I'm like very sympathetic to that. But I think at
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: some point they got to sort of increase the pressure
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: on Manchin, on Sinema, and just publicly and get the
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: public's mind on this because otherwise Joe Manchin is going
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: to feel like there's no cost to just saying, fuck it,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to support this. And then that's going
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: to be that, you know?
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think the Brennan Center counted 350 plus
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: bills restricting voting rights that have been filed in 47 states.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: So this is a countrywide pervasive problem. And the thing
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: that's so frustrating for Democrats is, you know, you will
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: see states make it harder to vote, especially make it
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: harder for black and brown people to vote. You'll see
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: maps redrawn in ways that are totally advantageous to Republicans
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: and And then inevitably, when those things contribute to Republicans
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: winning elections, the conversation will not be about voter suppression.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: It'll be a bunch of attacks on Joe Biden, Democratic policies.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Are we too woke?
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Are we defunding? It'll be all the fucking conversations that
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: are kind of beside the point that we don't want
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: to be having and not focused on this stuff because
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: we weren't focused on this stuff. Look, to Biden's credit,
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: to all the Democratic Party's credit, there's way more discussion
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: of these voter suppression efforts today than there was, I think,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: 10 years ago. And that's positive, but, you know, we
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: got to do something about it.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And look, they are doing the get caught trying
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: strategy on bipartisanship this week. All I'm asking on HR1
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: is to do get caught trying on that as well, right?
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Like I realize you can't make Joe Manchin do something
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: that he refuses to do and same with Kyrsten Sinema,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: but like go down with a pretty big fight here
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: if we're going to do this.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: We got to push him a little bit and maybe
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: you carve off smaller pieces of the bill and see
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: if you can pass those. I mean, I think also
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: we activists, we're going to have to start really thinking
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: hard about, okay, how are we going to overcome these bills?
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: It's not fair that we get put in this position
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: all the time, but that's going to be the case.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: And I mean, voter registration, voter education, mobilization early, like
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: investing in communities earlier than normal, not just putting all
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: our money into TV ads. So, you know, long game.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: And as, as, You'll all hear from Beto in a second.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: He sort of focused on voter registration as sort of
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: the main strategy to sort of get around these provisions
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: if they do pass. So I think that's where we're
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: headed next. And on that note, when we come back,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: I'll talk to more about the voting rights mess in
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Texas with Beto O'Rourke. Here to talk about the Republican
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: efforts to disenfranchise Texas voters, longtime friend of the pod,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Beto O'Rourke. Beto, welcome back. Hey, John.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Good to see you. Thanks for having me.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: So you and Julian Castro and a bunch of others
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: spoke at a protest outside the state capitol in Austin
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: over the weekend, a day after the Texas House advanced
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: a bill that would make it harder to vote, which
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: you called perhaps the single greatest attack on our democracy.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: So back when Georgia passed a law with similar voting
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: restrictions— Nate Cohn of the New York Times set off
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: this big debate when he said that all of the
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: political science, research, and data show that expanding voting options
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: to make it more convenient, drop boxes, vote by mail,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: early voting, hasn't actually seemed to have a huge effect
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: on turnout or electoral outcomes. What do you say to that?
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen the, I guess, underlying data or research.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: I can just tell you that Everything that Republicans have
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: done in Texas over the last couple of decades has
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: made it a lot harder to vote in Texas. And
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: it's not just an opinion. You look at the Election
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: Law Journal. They ranked Texas 50th out of 50 states
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: in ease of registering to vote and actually voting. You
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: look at our voter turnout. On the eve of the
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: 2018 election, we were dead last in the country. I
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: think we've now moved up to like 46th or 45th.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: in voter turnout. And that was after a banner voter
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: turnout year for Texas in 2020, where we broke our
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: own internal records in Texas that still left us 46th
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: in the country in turnout. So when you close 750
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: polling locations over the last eight years, implement the most
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: onerous voter ID laws, have what three-judge federal panel calls
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: a racial gerrymander of your state, you make it really
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: hard on people. And you don't make it hard on
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: all people You make it particularly hard on some people
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: like Black voters, Mexican-American voters, voters with disabilities, very old voters,
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: very young voters, and voters in big cities. Those are
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: the same set of voters that these new voter suppression
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: bills are targeting now. And I think it's the greatest
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: attack on democracy since the 65 Voting Rights Act, only
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: because when you connect it to Georgia, Florida, Kansas, Arizona,
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: 42 other state legislatures, and 360 other voter suppression bills,
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: you really get a sense of the scale and scope.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: And it's not unconnected to the insurrection on the 6th
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: of January, the big lie traffic by Trump and his acolytes,
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: and everything else that the Republicans are doing, essentially not
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: only to make it harder for Democrats to vote, but
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: harder for democracy to survive.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: What are the provisions in the current version of the
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: legislation that most alarm you?
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: I think the most alarming provision is the free reign
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: given to poll watchers, poll watchers in quotes. These are
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: partisan intimidators who can come to a polling place and
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: question voters, harass voters. In this legislation, videotape voters while
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: they're trying to cast their ballots and And what we
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: know from the history of poll watching in Texas is
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: that it's not an objective apolitical nonpartisan affair. It is
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: typically used by the dominant white power structure in Texas.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: It was used by Democrats at the beginning of the
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: 20th century. It's used by Republicans at the beginning of
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: the 21st century. But the consistent thread is that the
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: white men in power to keep black voters from fully
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: participating in the franchise. In fact, this legislation makes it
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: almost impossible to eject a poll watcher from a polling place.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: The election judge has almost no recourse under this legislation.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: When you combine that with the attack on those with
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: disabilities who would have to disclose private personal medical information
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: while voting, when you look at the end of 24-hour voting,
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: which really helped shift workers in a state where the
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: minimum wage is $ 7.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: 25 a.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: An hour, when you look at the limitation on the
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: number of polling places and voting machines within them, which
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: is only going to exacerbate those really long lines that
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: we see in Texas, six, seven, eight hours long, then
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: you understand just how bad this is.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: What's the strategy to stop this thing now that it's
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: passed the House? Is the fight over or is there
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: still time to get rid of some of the worst
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: provisions as they go to a conference committee?
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: There's still time to make this better and potentially and,
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: you know, hope springs eternal with me, potentially even stop this.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: So a version has passed the State Senate, a version
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: has passed the State House. They're fairly different from one another.
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: So they have to be reconciled in a conference committee.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: And the difference is ironed out and have to go
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: back to both chambers for additional votes. And then they
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: have to be sent to Governor Greg Abbott's desk for
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: signature if it makes it out of that process. In
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: that conference committee will be House Democrats. We give them
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: more leverage. to bring this into compliance with, frankly, the law,
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: the Constitution, and what we'd like to see for voting
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: rights if we turn up the pressure on all state legislators.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: So if you're in Texas, call your state rep, call
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: your state senator, tell them you want them to vote
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: against SB7, Senate Bill 7, and HB6, HB6 and SB7.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: That will help. The second thing we can do is
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: really turn up the pressure federally We need the United
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: States Senate to pass the For the People Act. It's
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: the biggest voting rights bill since the 1965 Voting Rights Act.
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: And it would repeal or safeguard, it would repeal the
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: worst voter suppression stuff you see coming out of Florida, Georgia,
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: and Texas. And it would safeguard voting rights in those
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: states and throughout the country. Almost every single Democratic member
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: of the United States Senate supports this. President Biden has
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: endorsed the legislation. We now just need it to pass.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: Calling your senator isn't going to hurt, but I'd also
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: argue that letting the White House know how you feel.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: I know President Biden supports this, but I want him
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: to know how much we all support this and that
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: we're counting on him at this moment. And then the
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: third thing that we need to do, of course, is
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: win elections going forward. And if we're going to win
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: state house seats in Texas and Georgia and Florida and
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: Arizona in 2022, We got to do a lot of
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: work right now in 2021. In Texas, that means signing
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: up to become a volunteer deputy registrar or a VDR.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: It's a peculiar provision of state election law in Texas.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: You can't register to vote online. You have to go
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: down to the county courthouse to get registered, which helps
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: to explain how hard it is. So if you sign
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: up to become a volunteer deputy registrar, you can literally
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: go knock on your neighbor's door and get them signed
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: up to vote. just as importantly, begin a conversation with
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: them now in 2021 that can be continued into 2022,
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: when down the road, we might want to ask them
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: for their vote.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Do you think that President Biden has made passing H.R.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: 1 enough of a priority?
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: No. I'm really grateful that throughout his career, he has
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: supported voting rights in the Senate as vice president. And again,
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: he's endorsed this legislation, I believe, as president. But this
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: is the most important bill that could pass the Senate,
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: more important than anything else, because everything else depends on
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: the ability of our democracy fully functioning. And if we
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: don't get this right, I don't think anything else truly
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: becomes possible, except perhaps an absolute demolition of Democratic electoral
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: prospects in 2022. As Amanda Lippman, one of my all-time
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: heroes who runs Run for Something, and has tried to
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: keep us focused on our state legislative races has said,
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: you know, the average voter may not know or care
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: about the filibuster may not know that, you know, for
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: the people act is pending in the Senate, but they
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: will know if Democrats were in the white house, the
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: United States house of representatives and the Senate, and we're
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: not able to meaningfully improve their lives beyond what they've
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: already done, which is not insignificant. They'll know that. And
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: that will have a bearing on what they do with
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: the ballot box. So I think for democracy, for sure,
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: and most importantly, but also for the rest of the
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Biden-Harris agenda over the next three years, over the next
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: seven years, it's imperative that this passes. And John, if
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: we look back at a similar moment where democracy was
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: really being tested in the mid-60s, John Lewis had literally
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: just been beaten within an inch of his life, crossing
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: the Edmund Pettus Bridge, trying to get to Montgomery from Selma.
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: A week later, a week later, Lyndon Baines Johnson is
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: addressing a joint session of Congress. And the first thing
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: he says, he refers back to what John Lewis has
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: just done. And he said, look, folks, we have got
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: to act. And he says, look, you may think the
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: poll tax and the literacy test apply to everyone equally.
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: They don't. If we're honest with ourselves, and he was
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: from Texas, he understood the South and the former Confederacy.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: These are mechanisms designed to disenfranchise Black voters. So we
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: got to do the right thing. This is very much
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: like this moment where in Texas, there's talking about just
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: standardizing the elections. Who could be against that? And we're
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: going to apply it equally to all voters. President Biden
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: understands exactly what is happening. He needs to call it out,
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: call the country together, bring both chambers together and say,
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: this is the most important thing that we can do together,
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: not as Democrats, not as Republicans, but as Americans at
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: this moment. This is our moment of truth. Let's not
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: be found wanting. So I hope that he will pursue
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: that course.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like I very much appreciate that Joe Biden and
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: every Democrat in Washington has a Joe Manchin problem, has
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: a Kyrsten Sinema problem. But I do think that it's
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: time to sort of both amp up the public pressure
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: and privately, I hope they're all sort of putting a
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: little pressure on those two senators and anyone else who's
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: still wavering on the filibuster, because I don't really see
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: any other option here.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: I agree. That's the ballgame.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: It seems like regardless of voting restrictions, Democrats will have
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: to do a better job of reaching voters where they
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: are if we're going to turn Texas blue. I saw
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: that you said to Ron Brownstein it was stupid for
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Democrats to abandon in-person organizing because of the pandemic or
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: entirely abandon it because of the pandemic. And I remember
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: you being concerned about that last time we spoke on
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: the pod and you were you were going door to door.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Do you think the end of the pandemic alone solves
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: this problem in future elections or is there even more
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: for Democrats to do?
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's more for Democrats to do. Certainly,
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: we'll see more Democrats out there. And I mean, I
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: don't know the partisan makeup of the crowd that came
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: together at the state capitol in Austin on Saturday, but
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: it was the largest gathering during the entire legislative session
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: so far, which says something. And John, there was a
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: lot of energy. There was a lot of electricity. There
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: were a lot of people making commitments to themselves that
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: they were going to get out there and become volunteer
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: deputy registrars or get behind great candidates or go knock
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: on their neighbor's door. I think that's a great sign.
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: But in addition to all of that, we've got to
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: go to the places that are a little bit harder
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: to reach, might take two flights if you're flying there,
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: might take a 10-hour drive if you're driving, which is
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: about the distance from El Paso to Laredo, Texas. It's
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: even further if I want to go down to true
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: South Texas and the Rio Grande Valley. But if we're
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: not at those voters' doors, and if we're not at
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: those voters' doors prepared to listen to them in Spanish
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: and as well as in English. And not show up,
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: by the way, in 2022 and say, hey, remember, early
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: voting starts next week. I'm here to tell you where
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: your polling place is. We got to be there now
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: in 2021 saying, you just tell me what's most important
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: in your life. And I'm here to listen and understand.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: And then I'd like to, over the course of time,
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: connect you with great candidates who represent the answers to
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: the questions that you're asking, the solutions to the problems
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: that you posed when I showed up. If we're not
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: willing to do that work, We will lose those parts
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: of Texas, those parts of America. And if the great
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: sin is that Republican of the Republican Party is that
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: they're trying to keep these folks from voting, then our
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: sin historically is we have not shown up to give
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: these folks a reason to vote. And that's why you
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: have such low voter turnout historically along the border. And
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: it's why you have a real cause for concern in
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: terms of how well Trump performed in these communities in 2020.
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: So we as as go to job as Democrats did
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: in 2018 in Texas, for example, and many other places.
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: I think we have to redouble our efforts and go
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: even harder, even bigger in these much tougher to reach places,
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: while at the same time, not taking for granted Houston
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: and Dallas and San Antonio and El Paso and Austin.
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: We got to show up there as well. And you
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: got to be doing it now. And so we have
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: a group called Powered by People that is working really
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: hard on voter registration and and early voter engagement and long,
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: deep canvassing conversations now. And we're doing it in Laredo,
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: and we're doing it along the border. And it's tough.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: It is really slow going. And they're very often very uncomfortable,
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: not easy conversations. And you really get the sense that
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: these places are in play for the first time in
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: a while. So we've got our work cut out for us.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: But as long as we are on it now, as
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: long as we take inspiration and cue from Nse Ufa
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: and Stacey Abrams and the great decade-long project in Georgia
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: and understand this is day in, day out, year in,
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: year out, cycle in, cycle out, we can get this done.
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: But yes, there's a lot more for us to do.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: I'd love to hear a little bit about some of
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: those conversations, you know, particularly around the Latino vote and
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Trump doing better among Latinos in 2020 than he did
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: in 2016, specifically in the Rio Grande Valley and South
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: in South Texas. I've talked to a lot of Latino strategists,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: Chuck Rocha and Carlos Odio and Stephanie Valencia about this. And,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: you know, one of the theories is that, you know,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of non-white conservatives started voting for Republicans at
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: higher rates than before. So these are black and especially
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Latino voters who used to vote for Democrats, even though
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: they thought of themselves as a little more conservative. And
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: now we're starting to vote more like conservative Republicans and
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: sort of more white conservative voters. Do you think there's
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: any truth to this or what are some of the
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: things that you heard in 2020, especially from Latinos about
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: why they might possibly want to vote for Trump or Republicans?
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: So I went on one of these canvassing trips to
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: Laredo a few weeks ago, and I was going door
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: to door, primarily talking to people who were registered to
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: vote in 2020 and did not cast a ballot to
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: find out why, whether they were happy with the results
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: of the election and what they'd like to see going forward.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: And I was somewhat surprised by how open so many
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: of these voters are to voting for Trump or someone
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: like Trump. And a lot of it comes down to
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: the corruption perceived and real that they see in Washington DC,
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: they see in Austin, Texas, that they see in Laredo
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: in this case. And this message that has extraordinary resonance
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: of draining the swamp or blowing the place up or
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: throwing the bums out or not speaking in the politically
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: correct language and just calling things what they are, regardless
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: of who does that. In this case, it was Trump.
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: But essentially, the status quo, including importantly and uncomfortably for
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: a Democrat like me, the status quo of Democratic leadership
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: has not served these people well. The minimum wage is
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: still $ 7. 25 an hour. We're still the least insured state
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: in the country, which means people in Laredo are dying
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: of diabetes. Folks work hard, do not seem to be
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: getting ahead. All their local representation is Democratic. The state
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: representation is Republican, of course. The last administration was Republican.
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: But to some degree, they're just saying to the hell
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: with all of them, I'm not going to vote. Or
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: if I am going to vote, I'm going to vote
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: for the person who's going to most radically change the
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: system that has done me so much harm or has
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: done nothing for me at all. The most pressing issues
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: that I hear beyond corruption are economic ones. insecurity about
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: how long I'm going to be able to keep this
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: job or whether I'm going to be able to.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Get a job.
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: And I think Trump's false choice between your health and
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: the economy, preventing you from getting COVID or your ability
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: to keep your job, really worked in South Texas along
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: the border and in Laredo. And then health care and
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: anger around that. And frankly, the really good job that
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: Trump and Abbott and others have done of scapegoating recent immigrants, refugees,
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: and asylum seekers. Over and over again, John, I've heard
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: from people, you know, my family did this the right way.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: You know, we waited in line for our visas. We
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: applied to sponsor our sisters and cousins and aunts to
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: come over. We work really hard. And we see these
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: people who just waltz right into the United States and
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: get everything, you know, hotel rooms, healthcare, schooling for their kids.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: Most of that is actually not true. But all that
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: has been said by Trump and Abbott without an effective
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: counter message from Democrats, because in large part, Democrats are
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: not showing up and knocking on their doors and talking
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: to them. So there's a lot that we're working against
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: right now. And I think the only way to do
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: it is to be there and have those conversations in
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: real time.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: It does seem like that the Biden administration strategy and
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: people in the administration have sort of said this is.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: if we can pass enough legislation to actually deliver for voters,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: if we can pass things that will tangibly improve people's lives,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: then people will connect that improvement with government actually doing good.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: And that will sort of be enough for a lot
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: of people who maybe thought that Washington wasn't delivering for
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: them to say, okay, now Washington is delivering. Now I
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: can support Democrats. Do you agree with that? Do you
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: think that's enough?
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's definitely helpful. And I will say this,
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: what the Biden-Harris administration and the democratically controlled Congress have
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: accomplished in the first five months of this year is
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: really extraordinary. And it is making a meaningful, immediate impact
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: in people's lives. And we did hear some of that
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: as well. And it's in part a counter to the
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: perceived impact that Donald Trump had on their lives. When
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: someone told me I picked up a box of food
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: from the food bank and there was a letter from
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump, I got a relief payment and it was
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: signed by Donald Trump. This guy was delivering for me.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: I think the Biden administration has delivered in a much
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: more meaningful way in a much shorter period of time.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: They're probably not shameless enough for my taste, John. Actually,
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: I'd love for them to take more credit for that.
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: It goes a long way, goes a long way in
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: a state like Texas where the media and the big
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: microphones are dominated by Republicans and their lies. You need
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: this real stuff to get through and you got to
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: be I don't know, you got to be a little
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: shameless is maybe the best word I can I can
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: find for it. But yes, more of that. And I
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: think more of it and the most of it is
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: only going to be possible if you pass for the
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: people and if you amend the rules to the filibuster
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: to get more of this stuff through. And whether it's
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: minimum wage or health care protections or paid family leave
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: or all of these things would make such a huge
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: difference in the day to day life of these people
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: that I'm listening to right now. If you do that
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: and then follow it up with somebody at their door saying, hey,
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: I'm here to see how you all are doing and
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: to tell you that we can build on this success
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: at the state level with this great state rep candidate,
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: this great gubernatorial candidate, this great U.S. senator candidate. And
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: then when 2024 rolls around, now with 40 electoral college votes, Texas,
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: I really do think, could be the deciding state, at
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: least the biggest battleground state in the country. But we're
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: not going to win in 2024 unless we're doing that
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: work now in 2024.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: I know you've been teaching. I know you've been on
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: the ground organizing. How much do you miss campaigning all
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: over Texas?
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: I really miss it, to be honest with you. I
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: just drove eight and a half hours Friday night to
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: be at that rally with Secretary Castro and others in Austin,
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: and then got in my truck and drove eight and
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: a half hours back that next day. And I felt
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: it in terms of the endurance and a little bit
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: of the exhaustion, but I also felt it in being
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: with all these people who want to work together to
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: make something really positive happen in Texas. And you want
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: to fight something that is really terrible for Texas right now.
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: And so, you know, when you're, when you're tempted to despair,
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: when you say, man, this, this shit could not get
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: any worse. And then you show up and see 500
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: people who left their homes and drove their own distance
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: from their hometowns to be at the Capitol and come
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: together and fight together. That's, that's pretty damn inspiring. And,
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: and yeah, I, I, I miss that a lot. And I,
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you the organizing at the doors in Laredo,
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: listen to people in Del Rio and Eagle Pass, going
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: down to McAllen. As a candidate or as a volunteer,
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: it really doesn't matter so much to me. Just being
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: with people and doing this work at a time where
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: I just don't know that it could be more important. Literally,
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: democracy is on the line. And if we do not
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: figure it out now, and I think in this year,
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know that we're going to be able to
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: save it. And I don't know that we're going to
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: be able to keep moving forward in this great direction
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: that the Biden-Harris administration have started us in. So it
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: feels like the most important work we could all be doing.
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: I'm just grateful to have a role in it.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: What's your latest thinking on whether you might challenge Abbott
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: for governor in 2022?
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: So I just finished teaching my last class at Texas
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: State for the semester on Thursday. And now I've got
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: to do my grading this week with my co-professor, Dr. Mora,
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: And then I think I'm going to put some serious
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: thought into this. And I guess really the larger question,
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: where can I do the most good? With Powered by
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: People last year, we registered 196,000 new voters in Texas.
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: We made tens of millions of voter engagement calls. We're
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: doing really great work on the ground now at people's
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: doors throughout the state. That's deeply fulfilling. If If that's
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: where I have the greatest impact and if I can
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: get behind really great candidates and help to make them
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: even more successful, that's wonderful. If it is best for
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: me to be a candidate and run a campaign, then
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: I will do that. But it's something to think through.
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: It's certainly something to listen to people on. And then
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: also just look at who else is out there and
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: what all is happening in Texas. But one way or another,
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: I'm going to give this all that I've got. I'm
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: going to give this my life for as long as
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: it takes to get it right.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: Well, if you do announce there's a podcast that would
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: be happy to have you. to talk about it. And
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: if not, and if you don't announce, we'd love to
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: have you back as well. So thank you. Thank you
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: for joining us as always. It was good talking to you.
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: Likewise. I appreciate it.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Better O'Rourke for joining us today. Before we leave,
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: I wanted to just take a moment to remember one
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: of our favorite White House dogs, Beau. Beau Obama passed away.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Barack Obama announced it over the weekend. I was so sad, Tommy.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: This hit me hard. Me too. I did not like
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: it at all. I saw the news on my phone,
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: as I mentioned earlier, as a wedding. I had to
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: go have a little moment to myself to recover. I mean,
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: the thing about a White House dog is, yeah, it's
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: the Obama's dog, but it's kind of like the whole
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: White House complex or campuses dog, right? Like this super
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: nice groundskeeper named Dale would always walk around with Bo
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: all day long. And he'd just like pop into your
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: office and you just get to like pet this cute
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: dog while you were at work. It was the best.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: I remember like the first week in the White House,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: he came just running into my office by himself. Dale
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: was like behind him. And so I didn't see Dale
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: at first. I was just like, oh, Bo's just in
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: my office hanging out. And it was just so cool
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: to be able to like pet him and cuddle him.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: I also, it's just make the whole thing makes me
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: feel really old too, because I was like, I was like,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Bo died. What happened? And then I was like, oh yeah,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: it was 2009. And now it's 2021. Dogs don't live
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: long enough, man.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: No, they shouldn't. It's also such a cute story that,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: you know, that was the promise that Barack Obama made
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: to the girls that, you know, if he ran for
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: president and won, he would get them a dog. And then,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: you know, promise made, promise delivered. Number one.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: I know. I know.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But yeah, everyone hug your pets. Give your pets
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: a little hug.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hug your pets. And, you know, it's good for
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: the team. Biden's got two dogs in there and they're
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: apparently getting a cat. I'm not going to lie. It
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: makes me a little nervous for the cat.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. Look, I grew up with cats. Especially around Major.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not a cat hater in any way. I
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: actually had some great cats growing up. I had one
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: that was a total asshole. I actually had a heart
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: attack jumping up onto the table in front of my
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: very eyes and died. Weird story. But this poor cat,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: this poor, big, just obese cat jumps up on the
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: table and just dies in midair. And my poor mother
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: didn't know what to do. And she just started laughing.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: And we all were like, what do we do now? Anyway,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: but yeah, I don't want the cat to get eaten.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite Tommy Vitor stories. I can't remember
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: if you've told that on the pod before or not.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: But anyway, it's the first time I heard it was
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: deeply disturbing.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: I was little and my dad was out of town.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: And my mom was like, what the? hell do I
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: do with like a cat corpse? So, you know, we
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: did what we do. Left them in the basement for the,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: for dad to deal with in a couple of days.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: Well, on that note, I think that's the, that's a
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: good place to end the show today.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Is this dark?
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: Is this weird? Look, it happens.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Things die. They live and they die. My point was
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: I had some great cats. I'm not a cat hater.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: I'm just worried about, you know, the interaction.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: I hear you. I hear you. Well, that's something to
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: talk about next time on Pods of America.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: Everyone have a great day.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: We'll talk to you later this week. Yeah, we'll ask Dan.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Flavia Casas.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: Our associate producers are Jazzy Marine and Olivia Martinez. It's
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is our
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Somenator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: Caroline Rustin, and Justine Howe for production support. And to
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Narmal Konian, Yale Freed, and
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: Milo Kim, who film and upload these episodes as videos
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: every week.