Latest / The Academic Coaching Podcast / What Tech Actually Helps Neurodivergent Students? | Joan Green

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What Tech Actually Helps Neurodivergent Students? | Joan Green · The Academic Coaching Podcast

• 0:00
  Joan Green: Live captions has become so much better.
• 0:03
  Joan Green: And so it used to be that people would know about captions, watching captions on YouTube, right?
• 0:08
  Joan Green: That's been around for a long time.
• 0:10
  Joan Green: But now there are a lot of students with auditory processing problems or ADHD or, you know, hearing disabilities that really benefit from seeing words as they hear them.
• 0:21
  Joan Green: I mean, there are a whole bunch of cases for that.
• 0:24
  Joan Green: And now it's built in on every phone, in the Chrome browser, where you can just enable it, and even if you're not watching a video but you're just in a conversation or in a classroom, if you're somebody that would do best seeing the words as they're said, that's a free feature on all devices now.
• 0:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Welcome back to the Academic Coaching Podcast, brought to you by the Anti-Boring Learning Lab.
• 0:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I'm your host, Gretchen Wegner, and this is the show where we dig into the craft of coaching students to take charge of their own learning.
• 0:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We're talking study skills, executive function strategies, neurodivergence, and more, so that all students, and most importantly their educators, have the tools and the agency to not bore their own brains in school, and coaching, and life.
• 1:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And today we're talking tech.
• 1:15
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): My guest is Joan Green, a speech and language pathologist and assistive technology specialist who has spent 40 years, let's say that again, 40 years helping neurodivergent students and their educators use technology to remove barriers and build independence.
• 1:32
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And what I appreciate so much about Joan's approach is that she's not just interested in tech for tech's sake.
• 1:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): She actually starts where a student is getting stuck and then looks for the simplest tool that might actually help.
• 1:46
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Two of our most important tenets in the Anti-Boring Learning Lab, the least students need to know to get into effective action now, Joan fully embodies in the sphere of technology, and she is a goldmine of the latest apps that can help students get stuff done.
• 2:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And today, whoa, we got very practical.
• 2:06
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Joan actually introduces me in real time to a couple of free technology features I didn't even know existed.
• 2:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We talk about AI and learning, when technology can increase independence, and when it can actually get in the way, and also how to decide which tools that are out there are actually worth trying.
• 2:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And stick around because later I put Joan on the spot with a question I think a lot of academic and executive function coaches have: How much of this tech stuff are we, the practitioners, actually responsible for knowing?
• 2:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Joan has some very concrete thoughts about the least we need to know and what we can leave to the tech experts themselves.
• 2:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so without further ado, let's get into it hi, Joan.
• 2:53
  Joan Green: Hello, great to be here
• 2:55
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So good to be here.
• 2:57
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Now, it's been a couple of years since you and I have seen each other.
• 3:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It was back at the Art of Motivating Students Summit.
• 3:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so part of why I like to do these podcasts is just catch up with people, as well as share incredible knowledge with our coaching community.
• 3:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so will you just...
• 3:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): First of all, I remember that you were just starting the Tech Lab community at around the same time as the summit.
• 3:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And will you just catch me up and catch our listeners up to who you are and how that's grown in the last two years?
• 3:31
  Joan Green: Yeah, thanks for asking.
• 3:32
  Joan Green: It's one of my favorite things.
• 3:34
  Joan Green: Um, I mean, what I prioritized back then, we were just coming out of COVID, and I was having a lot of family stuff going on, and what I really loved the most was just a sense of community and helping people directly, seeing them, you know, consistently.
• 3:48
  Joan Green: And so it's been a couple of years now, and so every week, right now we're, we're m- meeting every Wednesday.
• 3:55
  Joan Green: It's changed a little bit through the years, but we meet on Wednesdays.
• 3:59
  Joan Green: I vary the time a little bit because we're in different time zones, and people have different obligations.
• 4:03
  Joan Green: And I mostly take the tech talk topics from the participants, so what they're curious about learning, what they're stuck on.
• 4:12
  Joan Green: And then each week I have this 10 to 15-minute tech talk that we record.
• 4:16
  Joan Green: So now there's a library of recordings of the last couple of years that, you know, so there's a lot of information there.
• 4:23
  Joan Green: And then after that, it turns into 45 minutes of ask me anything.
• 4:27
  Joan Green: So it can be on that topic or different topics, and it's, it's hard to know who to go to with tech questions, right?
• 4:34
  Joan Green: And get a live answer from somebody that's in that world.
• 4:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right.
• 4:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And when we say that world, we mean the world of educators and technology, right?
• 4:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I mean, I know you also serve others besides just parents, students, and educators, but it is, it's true, it's hard.
• 4:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You can go to your, like, techy bro kind of guy who can answer the technical questions, but not somebody who really understands learning differences, understands accommodations, and understands what's out there
• 5:00
  Joan Green: Right.
• 5:01
  Joan Green: I would say most of the members are in their 40s, 50s, 60s,
• 5:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 5:05
  Joan Green: somewhere in there, and everyone wants to learn just the basic stuff of how to live a better life, be more productive, help with learning with everyday mainstream devices.
• 5:15
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ja
• 5:16
  Joan Green: super fancy.
• 5:17
  Joan Green: It's all very practical, um, you know, down-to-earth, everyday stuff, um, you know, for parents and tutors, executive function coaches, speech pathologists,
• 5:29
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): हम्म, हम्म।
• 5:30
  Joan Green: a lot of the same, solutions for different people really, right?
• 5:36
  Joan Green: If you
• 5:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ooh.
• 5:37
  Joan Green: who has trouble reading,
• 5:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 5:39
  Joan Green: you know, I mean, of course it depends on what the exact problem is, and you always wanna match the solution with the needs of the
• 5:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 5:46
  Joan Green: person-focused, but a lot of the solutions really work, um, when, when well-matched, um, across the lifespan.
• 5:54
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Can you think of an example, does one pop to mind about a solution that might work for like a 15-year-old and a 70-year-old or something?
• 6:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You know, just some, some example of that
• 6:05
  Joan Green: Ab- absolutely.
• 6:06
  Joan Green: Like the new, the new built-in, um, reading mode of Chrome.
• 6:11
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ahu
• 6:11
  Joan Green: know, you can right-click on an article in Chrome, and so for a student with dyslexia or visual scanning problems or attention challenges, right?
• 6:21
  Joan Green: It...
• 6:22
  Joan Green: You can change the font size, you can change the voice, you can change the speed, um, listen to it said aloud, and declutter it, get rid of the ads and all that, and that's, that's just as good for a senior with macular
• 6:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ah.
• 6:37
  Joan Green: or, you know.
• 6:38
  Joan Green: So a lot of these tools are good for many different needs.
• 6:43
  Joan Green: It's all about the right match
• 6:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 6:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ooh, so I just have an idea.
• 6:47
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Tell me if this would work on the podcast'cause we're both audio and visual for YouTube.
• 6:52
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But I thought, could I just quick share my screen, uh, for, uh, the blog that I just published today, and can you walk me through what the steps would be to turn that on?
• 7:01
  Joan Green: Sure
• 7:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): fun,'cause I don't know either.
• 7:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And this is new.
• 7:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): This wasn't...
• 7:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I,'cause I thought there were
• 7:07
  Joan Green: it,
• 7:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): alouds in browsers before
• 7:09
  Joan Green: So there have been Chrome extensions that you can use, like Read&Write for
• 7:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): A
• 7:13
  Joan Green: you could add, and you could change the view and have a voice.
• 7:16
  Joan Green: But now it's built in for free in Chrome
• 7:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 7:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay, so here we are.
• 7:22
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Do you see this?
• 7:23
  Joan Green: Yes, I do.
• 7:24
  Joan Green: Okay, so scroll down a little bit so we see the text.
• 7:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay.
• 7:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so first of all, just because I wanna take care of our audio listeners too, this is my article, When a Good Study Strategy Feels Like Too Much Work.
• 7:34
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So I'm scrolling down so that we don't see the picture and we see the text.
• 7:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And now what do I do?
• 7:40
  Joan Green: Right, and if it were, you're, this site is great'cause it doesn't have ads and pop-ups and
• 7:44
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ja
• 7:44
  Joan Green: So, so that's nice.
• 7:46
  Joan Green: So go, um, put your cursor somewhere where there's no text
• 7:49
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay
• 7:50
  Joan Green: and right-click if you're using a mouse or you
• 7:52
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 7:53
  Joan Green: tap on a touch pad
• 7:54
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Do you see the right click?
• 7:55
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Did that show?
• 7:57
  Joan Green: No.
• 7:57
  Joan Green: So
• 7:57
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): so
• 7:58
  Joan Green: s- you're just, um, sharing the actual article, but
• 8:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay.
• 8:01
  Joan Green: screen.
• 8:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): All right
• 8:03
  Joan Green: see a choice that says open in Chrome reader or
• 8:06
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Open in reading mode.
• 8:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes, I, yeah.
• 8:08
  Joan Green: Okay.
• 8:09
  Joan Green: So do that
• 8:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay, so now we're open, and now I see a little thing on the top
• 8:15
  Joan Green: Can you change your share so that we see what you see, or no?
• 8:18
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, oh
• 8:20
  Joan Green: Like instead of just sharing the, um...
• 8:23
  Joan Green: Can you
• 8:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right.
• 8:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I don't know if I can.
• 8:26
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I think because that we're in Descript and not Zoom, I'm not sure I can.
• 8:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But, um, so let's see.
• 8:33
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I'm going to click play and
• 8:38
  Joan Green: So
• 8:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): let's
• 8:39
  Joan Green: and reading mode, the first thing you can do is you can go to the different, like where the big A, little A is,
• 8:44
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes
• 8:44
  Joan Green: um, and then you can change the size of the font.
• 8:47
  Joan Green: We won't see it for people on YouTube, but
• 8:49
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right
• 8:49
  Joan Green: it.
• 8:49
  Joan Green: The size of the font, um, the spacing.
• 8:53
  Joan Green: You can, um, you know, make it,
• 8:55
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 8:56
  Joan Green: You could have yellow on blue
• 8:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I see.
• 9:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right.
• 9:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So I'm changing the, the...
• 9:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I mean, people don't see it, so it doesn't matter but I hit the plus and I'm making it super big.
• 9:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And, um, that's it.
• 9:09
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Then there's the settings.
• 9:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I'm not gonna explore the settings right now, but can I hit the play button?
• 9:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Is that what will read it?
• 9:14
  Joan Green: can cha- you can pick the voice, you can pick the speed, and press play and listen to it as it highlights
• 9:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay.
• 9:26
  Joan Green: Did you hear it?
• 9:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 9:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh, you guys aren't hearing it.
• 9:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Darn it.
• 9:29
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay.
• 9:29
  Joan Green: we, we can't hear
• 9:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay
• 9:31
  Joan Green: of how it is.
• 9:32
  Joan Green: But it's, it's really great because a lot of people do best when maybe they have a dark background or a blue background, or,
• 9:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): ค่ะ
• 9:39
  Joan Green: highlight the word and the sentence.
• 9:42
  Joan Green: I mean, it's, it's so good, and it's just built into Chrome now, so it, so it's freely available to everybody
• 9:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): That's great.
• 9:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You know, it was funny because I was thinking about if, do I have time to read my blog entries out loud for the, the YouTube channel?
• 9:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I was thinking that could be fun.
• 9:57
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I've never seen anyone do that before, but...
• 9:59
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And I think my voice might be more fun than the computer AI voice
• 10:05
  Joan Green: Right.
• 10:06
  Joan Green: But the voices have gotten better,
• 10:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes.
• 10:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes
• 10:09
  Joan Green: choices, and sometimes you can download, you know, there's some that are enhanced that you can download that sound better if, if you actually have them downloaded in your computer.
• 10:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So sorry that you all didn't get to see or hear that, but it sounds like the trick is a right click on your Chrome page, and then you can choose the reading mode and investigate from there.
• 10:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So, ooh, thank you for the hot tip.
• 10:34
  Joan Green: You're welcome
• 10:35
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Is there any other technology that's new this particular school year that you're excited about?
• 10:43
  Joan Green: I mean, there's all the AI.
• 10:44
  Joan Green: That's, you know, the
• 10:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Wow.
• 10:46
  Joan Green: right?
• 10:47
  Joan Green: That's a whole topic because, you know, we know that for some students it really hinders learning, right?
• 10:53
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes
• 10:54
  Joan Green: cheat and look for shortcuts.
• 10:55
  Joan Green: But for a certain-- when it's matched appropriately and used appropriately, it can be hugely beneficial.
• 11:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 11:03
  Joan Green: that's a whole topic.
• 11:04
  Joan Green: I mean, I really like-- It used to be called NotebookLM, now it's called Gemini Notebook,
• 11:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm.
• 11:09
  Joan Green: of my favorite tools for learning, especially for older students.
• 11:13
  Joan Green: Are, are you familiar with Gemini
• 11:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I'm, I'm quite familiar.
• 11:15
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I haven't used it a lot myself, but I, I, what I've been doing with it is putting, when I find research articles that I know I wanna reference back to, I'm putting them in there so that I can create the podcasts, uh, to summarize, like, a bunch of them together
• 11:31
  Joan Green: So for active learning, which I know you're into the science
• 11:34
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Угу, угу.
• 11:34
  Joan Green: and studying, for active learning, it can be really great for students, for all students, especially those who learn differently, because you can upload up to 50 documents like PDFs that, that have good content, right?
• 11:48
  Joan Green: So, you know,
• 11:49
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): उहम्।
• 11:49
  Joan Green: in, junk out, but if
• 11:51
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): उहम्।
• 11:51
  Joan Green: if you're-- it, it only refers to, the AI chatbot only refers to the information that you've uploaded.
• 11:57
  Joan Green: So if you're studying for a certain course and you want it presented in different ways, you can interact with the chatbot and ask questions, or you can have it create a podcast or help you with a visual learning tool, a mind map, or, you know, the, uh, flashcards.
• 12:13
  Joan Green: And so while it's just one tool, it is-- it's a good way to not just reread your notes, but to actively engage in learning.
• 12:21
  Joan Green: So I, I really like that, and I've had a lot of students, you know, I have Tech for College Success course, I have a number of courses, and I've had a, a, a number of students reach, you know, reply, send me an email out of the blue saying that that has saved them.
• 12:35
  Joan Green: That one tool has really made a huge difference in their
• 12:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 12:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, and this is a testament to, for all the downsides of AI, I mean, every generation there's a downside of the tech that becomes available.
• 12:49
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But the upside of it is that if you, if you understand the science of learning and the science of executive function as a kiddo or as a coach or educator, then you can learn to use them as intentional meta-strategic tools, so metacognitive and meta-strategic, and they truly can further your learning.
• 13:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But the, the, the downside though is they're so easy to use them poorly that when you're tired or exhausted or just have overloaded, let's say, have less space in your working memory, you may be more likely to use them poorly.
• 13:29
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So they're a big gift and a big, uh, challenge.
• 13:33
  Joan Green: I totally agree.
• 13:34
  Joan Green: And, but one problem that's happening is that, um, of professors and educators are taking away tech, right?
• 13:43
  Joan Green: So, uh, there's a lot of returning to blue books, paper, pencil, and there is a lot of benefit to that,
• 13:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 13:51
  Joan Green: I mean, I, you know, we could have huge discussions about pros and cons in all of this.
• 13:54
  Joan Green: But I worry about the kids with dyslexia and dysgraphia, where this has really opened up, know, possibilities that never existed before.
• 14:05
  Joan Green: And so I find that I have to really help them become strong self-advocates because they're, you know, everyone's doing, you know, no phones in schools, which I think is a good thing.
• 14:16
  Joan Green: But I think that there need to be exceptions, and there are certain students that really need some of these tech tools to,
• 14:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 14:25
  Joan Green: to, to succeed
• 14:26
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 14:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You know, side note, I, uh, follow all these research scientists on LinkedIn, and Carl Hendrick is one, and he just-- I haven't read it deeply yet, but he just posted a study about cell phones in schools, and that actually, I think this was last school year maybe, I forget.
• 14:44
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But taking them away did not necessarily improve student learning.
• 14:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Uh, the other side of that, though, I have a local school here in the Bay Area that's just gone, um, no cell phones, and the, the students put up a hissy fit when it was becoming that.
• 15:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Now they all love it.
• 15:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So I-- whether it improves learning by taking away distractions, who knows?
• 15:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But I do think it's improving wellbeing
• 15:10
  Joan Green: Right, and social interactions.
• 15:12
  Joan Green: I mean, there, it, there's more than academics,
• 15:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 15:15
  Joan Green: there's a lot to success.
• 15:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 15:18
  Joan Green: and, and I think that we've all seen the detriment of too much tech,
• 15:22
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mhm.
• 15:23
  Joan Green: But,
• 15:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mhm.
• 15:24
  Joan Green: I always try to really talk about using tech intentionally.
• 15:29
  Joan Green: It, it, like not all screen time is equal,
• 15:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right
• 15:32
  Joan Green: you know.
• 15:32
  Joan Green: And so with intention and integrity
• 15:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 15:37
  Joan Green: great.
• 15:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And, you know, actually let me run by something that I've heard myself saying by you, and feel free to critique it if you think it's wrong or say you like it if you do.
• 15:47
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But I often say to coaches to talk to students about if you're noticing you're using tech in a certain kind of way-- Let's just talk about retrieval practice and studying just as an example to make it more concrete.
• 16:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So if you're doing a bunch of digital flashcards or even using Gemini Notebook, I didn't know about that new name, to quiz you on some articles that you have, uh, maybe pay attention to giving yourself equal and opposite time in an analog way.
• 16:21
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So maybe, you know, I, I have something called the study senses.
• 16:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I'm not going to talk us through them right now, but the study senses encourage you to be outside of tech and in your body and brain, and so maybe choose some study senses that you can also use to, uh, practice retrieval or to encode the things that you just found out from Notebook-- or from Gemini Notebook that you don't know very well to encode those in a new way rather than staying inside the screen.
• 16:47
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And what would you say to that?
• 16:48
  Joan Green: I love that idea.
• 16:50
  Joan Green: I mean, I learn best by writing, by
• 16:52
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 16:53
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 16:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 16:57
  Joan Green: and Google Drive and all that,
• 16:59
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 16:59
  Joan Green: notes by hand,
• 17:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right
• 17:01
  Joan Green: when I'm sitting at my computer.
• 17:03
  Joan Green: But then what I do is I'll scan my notes and I put them up into Google Drive so that I can access them,
• 17:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So that you can access them and have them searched inside.
• 17:11
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, I can also imagine a vice versa where let's just say you do load a bunch of articles or texts into Gemini Notebook, and you do listen to a podcast to encode it in one way, and then you practice retrieval about what you just heard with one of their quizzes.
• 17:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Then you might sit down with a whiteboard and do a whiteboard dump just to see how much did I remember.
• 17:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, I actually wonder if you did that, you can't load your whiteboard in to have it double-check if you missed any main ideas, can you?
• 17:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I mean, that would be super cool if you could.
• 17:42
  Joan Green: a screenshot or
• 17:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 17:44
  Joan Green: and
• 17:44
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 17:45
  Joan Green: attach that.
• 17:46
  Joan Green: You can upload the photo, and it understands, qu- in quotes, understands the photo, and you can say,
• 17:51
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right.
• 17:52
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah, so you could do that.
• 17:53
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh, beautiful
• 17:55
  Joan Green: Yeah, I mean, I really love merging all of this together
• 17:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm
• 17:58
  Joan Green: you know, as many different ways as we can learn.
• 18:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Угу,
• 18:01
  Joan Green: expert at this more than me,
• 18:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): угу.
• 18:03
  Joan Green: one of my...
• 18:04
  Joan Green: I have four kids, and they're
• 18:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ага
• 18:05
  Joan Green: and flown, but one of them, um, has ADHD,
• 18:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Угу
• 18:08
  Joan Green: remember her study while she was jumping on the trampoline.
• 18:12
  Joan Green: You know, and
• 18:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Aha.
• 18:13
  Joan Green: I was crazy, and she also had to study with music in the background.
• 18:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ja
• 18:17
  Joan Green: and it's all in a, and two of my other kids needed absolute silence, no distractions, you know?
• 18:23
  Joan Green: And so everybody is different.
• 18:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 18:26
  Joan Green: My husband always has classical music going.
• 18:28
  Joan Green: I need silence, you know?
• 18:30
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 18:30
  Joan Green: out how your brain works
• 18:32
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 18:33
  Joan Green: the first step
• 18:35
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You know, I'm working on some new copy for my website right now, uh, given now that I know sort of what the lab has become in the last few years.
• 18:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): In some ways, you and I, our communities have been growing at the same, um, for about the same amount of time, and I, I now know, oh, this is what's so magical about the lab and about my courses and the community.
• 18:54
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so as I'm doing that, I'm starting to name the...
• 18:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): There are two facts that are equal and opposite.
• 19:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): One of them is all brains learn the same, and then another is all brains are different.
• 19:07
  Joan Green: Hmm.
• 19:08
  Joan Green: Interesting.
• 19:08
  Joan Green: Yeah, yeah
• 19:09
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 19:09
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And it's like, okay, so especially with neurodivergence, as you just brought up, um, yes, it's true that certain things in the research do allow people to learn better, but if you have challenges in working memory or challenges in this or that or the other, attention, then you're gonna have to tweak those things to be able to put the science of learning into practice in a way that's gonna work for your unique brain.
• 19:33
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And I think it's an irony, but also it's a gift to remember, uh, both of those sides.
• 19:40
  Joan Green: I mean, that I have the same, um, I mean, I also ta- talk about universal design for learning,
• 19:46
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 19:46
  Joan Green: so that's, you know, all of the features that are built into everyday tech that's good for everybody, right?
• 19:52
  Joan Green: And, uh, but then I also talk about the importance of individualizing the, uh, the assistive technology.
• 19:58
  Joan Green: So one is, you know, something's great for everybody, but then you also, uh, it, it sort of the opposite thing also.
• 20:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 20:04
  Joan Green: you know, I try to take into account both at the same time.
• 20:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, and I think then there's a third side to that, which is what is good for the most marginalized learner or the higher need learner is actually good for everyone.
• 20:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Like any student, the most neurotypical student could benefit from being in a hurry and needing to make dinner, but also needing to get an article read.
• 20:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so putting on that Chrome thing while they're making dinner, and I did see you can have it be two times the speed or whatever.
• 20:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Like my brain actually, I don't like reading.
• 20:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I mean, I love reading, but because of what this modern technology and life has done to my attention, my brain lopes faster than my eyes can take in the information.
• 20:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so I'm actually, as we're talking about this, I've never liked audiobooks for a different reason, but I'm like,"Oh, in these shorter little bursts, I could really imagine using this technology." So if everybody knew about it and was practiced making choices based on what they needed, it doesn't matter necessarily if you're neurodivergent or not.
• 21:11
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You still can use it meta strategically.
• 21:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): That's my new word.
• 21:15
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I just learned it yesterday from Zaretta Hammond, so I'm gonna use it.
• 21:19
  Joan Green: Well, a- an- another thought comes to mind.
• 21:21
  Joan Green: You asked if there was any other feature that's sort of new in the last year or so, um, and it's live captions has become so much better.
• 21:31
  Joan Green: And so it used to be that people would know about captions, watching captions on YouTube, right?
• 21:36
  Joan Green: That's been around for a long time.
• 21:38
  Joan Green: But now there are a lot of students with auditory processing problems or ADHD or, you know, hearing disabilities that, um, really benefit from seeing words as they hear them.
• 21:50
  Joan Green: I mean, there are a whole bunch of cases for that.
• 21:52
  Joan Green: And now it's built in on every phone, in, in, in the Chrome browser, um, where you can just enable it, and even if you're not watching a video but you're just in a conversation or in a classroom, if you're somebody that would do best seeing the words as they're said, that's a free feature on all devices now.
• 22:12
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Wow
• 22:13
  Joan Green: that's another thing.
• 22:15
  Joan Green: I mean, I have a niece who has auditory processing challenges, and this would've been huge for her when she was
• 22:21
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Угу
• 22:21
  Joan Green: 'cause it really, she really struggled in the classroom
• 22:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So during a lecture, how would you do that?
• 22:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Can you?
• 22:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Like, if, if it's a live lecture, how?
• 22:30
  Joan Green: Well, if, if, like if you have an iPhone, you just go to settings.
• 22:34
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 22:35
  Joan Green: I mean, I could wa- and then accessibility,
• 22:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 22:37
  Joan Green: think it's under hearing.
• 22:39
  Joan Green: I think.
• 22:39
  Joan Green: I'd have
• 22:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh, okay
• 22:40
  Joan Green: And then you just enable live captioning, and
• 22:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): whatever you're listening to in that moment.
• 22:46
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay,
• 22:47
  Joan Green: It
• 22:47
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): go play with that, peoples.
• 22:49
  Joan Green: and then it's on Android.
• 22:50
  Joan Green: It's, you know, it's in the Chrome browser.
• 22:52
  Joan Green: It's on, it's in PowerPoint.
• 22:54
  Joan Green: It's on Google Slides.
• 22:56
  Joan Green: I mean, live captioning, you know, if, if you're at a, if your professor or teacher is using, or if you're, if you're a tutor,
• 23:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): उहं।
• 23:05
  Joan Green: If your student would learn better, whether you're on Zoom or in person, I always ask if people want captioning or I just show people how to use it, and some people have never really tried it before and it just helps them pay attention better.
• 23:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ja
• 23:18
  Joan Green: I know when I'm talking and I, I, you know, I lot on Zoom.
• 23:22
  Joan Green: I do one-to-one consultations.
• 23:23
  Joan Green: I
• 23:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): உம்
• 23:24
  Joan Green: Tech Life Inner Circle.
• 23:25
  Joan Green: I don't like seeing captioning as I'm talking because I find it very distracting.
• 23:30
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Uhum.
• 23:30
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Uhum.
• 23:31
  Joan Green: You know?
• 23:31
  Joan Green: So it's nice if it's in, if it's in a person's power to turn it on or
• 23:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): To turn it on without the other person being distracted by it.
• 23:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Fabulous.
• 23:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Three hot tips, you all.
• 23:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Listen to the Academic Coaching Podcast.
• 23:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay, so it's clear, Joan, that you are a wealth of information about this, and I just wanted to name--'cause you have the community that's drop-in, but you also have these courses, and I do know that a number of members of the Anti-Boring Learning Lab really appreciated your Tech for College Students course.
• 24:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so can you just name-- We'll do a mini commercial here in the middle before we move on to some other topics.
• 24:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Can you just name the sorts of things that our listeners might really appreciate diving into in your world?
• 24:13
  Joan Green: Yeah, and, and right now most of the things I offer live, I only have one course now that's available, um, you know,
• 24:21
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Asynchronously, yeah
• 24:23
  Joan Green: asynchronously, and that's a Tech for College Success.
• 24:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay
• 24:26
  Joan Green: really for tutors, and coaches, and parents, and, you know, the providers of service, not really the students.
• 24:33
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 24:34
  Joan Green: so much information on all the different ways to take notes, and learning, and organization, and
• 24:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 24:39
  Joan Green: I work with a student, I go much slower.
• 24:41
  Joan Green: This is showing people what's possible.
• 24:43
  Joan Green: Um, and then through the years, several times a year I typically offer a Google course.
• 24:48
  Joan Green: Most recently it was called Google Set Go, and so that was, um, the last couple of times I offered that it was for, um, high school and college students to help
• 24:57
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mhm
• 24:57
  Joan Green: get digitally organized, and efficient time management, productivity, all,
• 25:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 25:01
  Joan Green: that just with some of the free Google tools.
• 25:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 25:06
  Joan Green: I think, um, and then I've als- and then Tech Possibility Academy, and that was for anybody who just needed a course overview of what I think are all of the best tools, like just to be more tech savvy, to help anybody or yourself.
• 25:22
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): हम्म।
• 25:22
  Joan Green: over, I'm always looking for the lowest hanging fruit that's easiest to implement, not expensive, available on everyday devices.
• 25:31
  Joan Green: I mean, we're not talking about anything, you know, super expensive.
• 25:33
  Joan Green: As long as you have a current, phone, tablet, or computer.
• 25:37
  Joan Green: You know,
• 25:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ehm, mhm.
• 25:38
  Joan Green: devices.
• 25:39
  Joan Green: A lot of people don't talk about these things because, like, I'm not selling them, right?
• 25:44
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right
• 25:45
  Joan Green: are all these cool features with Microsoft, and Google, and Apple, but how do you learn about them?
• 25:49
  Joan Green: I mean, it's
• 25:49
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): हम्म
• 25:50
  Joan Green: just sort of roll them out, and you just get shocked when they're there, and how do you use them, and
• 25:54
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right.
• 25:54
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And you blunder through figuring...
• 25:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I, like, I know I'm not using...
• 25:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I just got a new Apple Watch and I've never had one before, and I'm just like,"Oh my God, I know I'm not using it well.
• 26:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I really do need someone to teach me."
• 26:06
  Joan Green: I had a tech talk about,'cause I have an Apple Watch
• 26:09
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 26:10
  Joan Green: the ways that I, you know, five tips of how I use mine every
• 26:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mhm
• 26:14
  Joan Green: Um,'cause I- I have a website, theymaynotknow.com.
• 26:18
  Joan Green: I mean, back in the day before COVID, I'd every, I did a free webinar every month about just cool stuff, and I just wanted to share it, and I, I would get, like, 500 people at these
• 26:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): उहम्म
• 26:28
  Joan Green: webinars.
• 26:29
  Joan Green: But then now it's hard to even get people at a webinar anymore, and I don't do quite
• 26:34
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Two
• 26:34
  Joan Green: much for free anymore because of course this is my business.
• 26:37
  Joan Green: So
• 26:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right
• 26:38
  Joan Green: anyone can come, um, once for free, but then there is
• 26:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ja.
• 26:42
  Joan Green: It's 140-something for, um, three months.
• 26:45
  Joan Green: So it's,
• 26:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Uhum.
• 26:46
  Joan Green: not that expensive,
• 26:47
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Uhum.
• 26:48
  Joan Green: it's extremely valuable for people who are there.
• 26:50
  Joan Green: They love it.
• 26:51
  Joan Green: They're like,"Oh, I didn't know," you know?
• 26:53
  Joan Green: "I didn't know this was possible.
• 26:54
  Joan Green: How do you even know to ask?" You
• 26:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 26:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, and I know that my people who attended your college course really appreciated it.
• 27:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And I will say that we have a new person in the lab, and I, I, I'm gonna use this as an example, but I've seen this type of person before.
• 27:09
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Every once in a while there's someone who just doesn't understand Google Drive.
• 27:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And will you say from what you've seen just how, like are, are...
• 27:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Is it true that most students in most schools are using Google to organize?
• 27:24
  Joan Green: I mean, once
• 27:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 27:25
  Joan Green: a private school that is an Apple school or a
• 27:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Uhum
• 27:29
  Joan Green: And I don't know the percentages, but I'd say 95% of the people that I know.
• 27:33
  Joan Green: The problem is that, um, so you learn Google in school, and some schools are better than others at helping the kids learn how to use folders and organize them, and where the shared documents show up, and how to move them into your My Drive.
• 27:45
  Joan Green: And they use Google Classroom and Google Calendar and a lot of these things.
• 27:50
  Joan Green: Although most schools are still using paper calendars and,
• 27:53
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 27:54
  Joan Green: mean, I, I don't know.
• 27:55
  Joan Green: But, um, but then you go into college, and there are a lot of colleges that are Microsoft, not Google.
• 28:01
  Joan Green: Maybe that's more 50/50.
• 28:03
  Joan Green: And then you get in the working world,
• 28:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Aha.
• 28:06
  Joan Green: more Microsoft,
• 28:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Interesting
• 28:08
  Joan Green: And so I really think that a basic skill should be knowing how to use Apple, Google, and Microsoft,
• 28:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm.
• 28:18
  Joan Green: text-to-speech, folders and documents.
• 28:22
  Joan Green: Like, it's, it's just a litera- And now with AI,
• 28:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 28:25
  Joan Green: people need to have a basic AI literacy because you can't avoid it,
• 28:30
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Угу
• 28:30
  Joan Green: you like it or not.
• 28:32
  Joan Green: And, you know, privacy, security.
• 28:35
  Joan Green: You know, there's a lot, there's a lot to know
• 28:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah, there is a lot to know.
• 28:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so let this be a invitation to those of you listening, if you are confused, especially about the Google environment, since that is like, that's the first one to learn more about.
• 28:52
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And then maybe as clients come in, and if you notice they are in a different environment, then that's your opportunity to learn about that environment, and maybe then pop into Joan's community.
• 29:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Like, you take the course community when you're like,"Oh, whoa, this semester I'm really gonna need some support in supporting my students in blah, blah, blah environment."
• 29:13
  Joan Green: of times when I, when I do, I call it collaborative tech brainstorming,'cause I
• 29:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): उहम्म
• 29:18
  Joan Green: do official I used to charge thousands of dollars and do a big formal evaluation for assistive technology or
• 29:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): उहं।
• 29:25
  Joan Green: 'cause I'm really a speech pathologist
• 29:26
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): उहं।
• 29:27
  Joan Green: got into technology.
• 29:28
  Joan Green: But do that anymore.
• 29:31
  Joan Green: I liked, I, I really tried to figure out what's the least amount I can charge have the biggest impact in the least amount of time,
• 29:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 29:39
  Joan Green: visits.
• 29:39
  Joan Green: That, the, my private sessions have a minimum of two
• 29:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh, great.
• 29:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): That's good to know
• 29:43
  Joan Green: s- so that's very, y- you know, most people can afford two visits.
• 29:47
  Joan Green: You know, it's not thousands of
• 29:49
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 29:49
  Joan Green: and so then what I try to do is, is figure out where people are now, and what are, like, what's just one or two changes that they can make to help reach their goal or get more organized or productive or improve reading or writing or whatever it is.
• 30:05
  Joan Green: But often I end up having a few extra sessions with the parents
• 30:09
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 30:09
  Joan Green: tutors or the
• 30:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 30:11
  Joan Green: functioning coaches because they realize really need to get more into this world of technology because their students are expected to know a lot of this,
• 30:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): उहम्।
• 30:20
  Joan Green: and they feel like they don't know
• 30:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 30:23
  Joan Green: So a lot of times I'll invite um, tutor to join the student, and we'll, we'll do it, figure it out together,'cause I don't wanna keep any of the students as, you know, I, I, I just, I, I do an average of, I would say, three to six sessions, and that's it.
• 30:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 30:39
  Joan Green: You know,
• 30:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, and,
• 30:41
  Joan Green: the tech
• 30:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): and what occurs to me, uh, I mean, even before you just said what you said, I was like,"Oh, another way to use you would be for coaches to actually..." Um, you know, we, I, in my Rock Your Biz program, we talk about packages.
• 30:55
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So one package you could offer is you could choose to pay Joan for a one-on-one session and then just build the cost of that into your package.
• 31:06
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But then when a tech need comes up, uh, then you could ha- probably the coach, the student, and you, and it can be recorded so the parents could watch it later, potentially.
• 31:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We kind of wanna keep parents away as much as possible from our relationships with the students.
• 31:22
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But d- is that something you'd be open to?
• 31:24
  Joan Green: Oh, uh, I do that with people.
• 31:26
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You do.
• 31:26
  Joan Green: the scenes
• 31:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): That's great
• 31:28
  Joan Green: a number of schools and private clinicians
• 31:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah, that's great
• 31:32
  Joan Green: because they just feel like they need- don't wanna be a tech expert.
• 31:36
  Joan Green: Like, they, they don't have
• 31:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right.
• 31:37
  Joan Green: they don't have the
• 31:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right.
• 31:38
  Joan Green: That's not in their lane,
• 31:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right
• 31:40
  Joan Green: bad leaving tech out of the treatment totally.
• 31:43
  Joan Green: So
• 31:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes
• 31:44
  Joan Green: it started, can continue, um,
• 31:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ja
• 31:48
  Joan Green: those tools.
• 31:49
  Joan Green: And sometimes the student's with us and sometimes n- not with us.
• 31:53
  Joan Green: And, and in the Tech Life inner circle, we brainstorm s- I have a number of tutors or therapists that come and they give me a scenario,
• 32:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 32:04
  Joan Green: brainstorm
• 32:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): What to do?
• 32:06
  Joan Green: to do with the student
• 32:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So, okay, so here's an important question for the educators listening.
• 32:12
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Uh, because yeah, some people don't wanna be tech experts, and I feel kind of strongly, stubbornly, that you are responsible for what I like to say the least you need to know about certain tech.
• 32:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So where do you think that line is between what clinicians or educators themselves ought to know about tech for students versus what you don't need to know, and you can rely on an expert like you?
• 32:39
  Joan Green: Yeah, so I don't think, I don't think tutors need to know all the choices out there.
• 32:43
  Joan Green: Of all the, you know, there's, um, Genio Notes for taking notes.
• 32:47
  Joan Green: Like, there are a lot of tools out there to help with functioning, note-taking, organization.
• 32:54
  Joan Green: I think that the to know, like the least that you need to know, is really speech-to-text and text-to-speech on all devices, the good and bad of AI.
• 33:06
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm.
• 33:07
  Joan Green: You know, how, because kids are using it.
• 33:09
  Joan Green: I mean, it, it's in the schools, and so, you know, and yeah, the good and the bad of AI and how it can shortcut learning.
• 33:17
  Joan Green: Because kids need to know, um, why it's not good to have, know, ChatGPT or Gemini or Claude write the essay for them.
• 33:28
  Joan Green: I mean,
• 33:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Uhum.
• 33:29
  Joan Green: There, there are certain words that show up all the time.
• 33:32
  Joan Green: There's like
• 33:33
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I know.
• 33:33
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Even in my blog writing, which I do lean on AI for blogs.
• 33:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So I will say, in my defense, I spend about five hours on each blog entry, which is actually longer than probably I would've spent writing by myself because I'm so rigorously in conversation with AI.
• 33:49
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But I just, it annoys me so much, these little tell, tells...
• 33:52
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, like, what's one of them that pops out in your mind?
• 33:55
  Joan Green: Oh, the M dash, you know,
• 33:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah, right.
• 33:57
  Joan Green: dash, the, um, certain, um, like it's uses the word exactly.
• 34:03
  Joan Green: Like there's just
• 34:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 34:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Quietly, quietly, gently.
• 34:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I get that a lot
• 34:08
  Joan Green: Yeah.
• 34:08
  Joan Green: Yeah.
• 34:09
  Joan Green: And so, and I use AI all the time too, and I use it, and I think of it as a thinking partner.
• 34:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): उहम्।
• 34:14
  Joan Green: I, I try to always use my brain first and sort of write, you know, write what I wanna write, and then I'll use it as a thinking partner.
• 34:22
  Joan Green: Do I have any false assumptions?
• 34:24
  Joan Green: What am I missing?
• 34:25
  Joan Green: You know, and, and go back and forth a little bit.
• 34:27
  Joan Green: Um, I think it- it's a-- So for professionals and, a- and I also use it to create engaging content and create images for maybe students that aren't that engaged with learning and help bring out, you know, bring things alive to them or, or help them study with...
• 34:45
  Joan Green: You know, they can create memorable images, you know, to
• 34:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 34:48
  Joan Green: with the learning.
• 34:49
  Joan Green: But I think with the younger ones, there's more danger because they haven't developed certain skills, and they don't know...
• 34:56
  Joan Green: Like, I can assess what I like and what I don't like and how it's gonna help me.
• 34:59
  Joan Green: It's like my assistant.
• 35:00
  Joan Green: But,
• 35:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 35:01
  Joan Green: students don't know.
• 35:02
  Joan Green: They don't have the judgment yet and the skills.
• 35:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 35:06
  Joan Green: I, I think that, um, they really should not be interacting directly with AI at a young age at all, unless it is a specific task generated by the educator
• 35:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm.
• 35:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): What, what do you think that age, you're saying at a young age, but let's be specific.
• 35:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I mean, I know it's
• 35:24
  Joan Green: It, it all depends also on, I, I don't know.
• 35:27
  Joan Green: I mean, I think maybe, um, and middle school it's pretty risky.
• 35:32
  Joan Green: I think maybe by high school they, they should be using it because I think, you know, when they're out in the working world they're gonna be expected to be AI savvy.
• 35:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Угу
• 35:41
  Joan Green: So, uh, you know, I, I don't really know.
• 35:43
  Joan Green: It's all in how it's used too, because,
• 35:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Uhum
• 35:46
  Joan Green: you know, I mean, I've had, I've had some students that, um, uh, uh, tell me,"Well, I don't have to bother learning how to spell anymore.
• 35:54
  Joan Green: I just say it and the computer types it," right?
• 35:56
  Joan Green: And so they, you know, so, you...
• 36:00
  Joan Green: But it's good to be a good speller if you can, if you don't have a specific challenge.
• 36:04
  Joan Green: I mean, you want to develop these s- these skills.
• 36:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right
• 36:10
  Joan Green: I don't know.
• 36:11
  Joan Green: It, it, it's hard to answer that question.
• 36:13
  Joan Green: So it really depends on what the task is.
• 36:15
  Joan Green: But on the other hand, I have some students that I've helped who are in high school and college that still rely on their parents to read aloud to them because they have a reading disability, and they've never been taught how to have PDFs read aloud or how, you know
• 36:30
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right.
• 36:30
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So being more independent.
• 36:32
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You, you can still have the read aloud, but you don't wanna be dependent on your parents specifically.
• 36:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 36:39
  Joan Green: So it, it's, it's tricky, and then you want to, you know, if you can, and you put in all these scaffolds and supports, want people to become overly dependent on them.
• 36:49
  Joan Green: You want
• 36:49
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right
• 36:51
  Joan Green: um, take away as much of this as you can because somebody doesn't always have a computer with
• 36:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 36:57
  Joan Green: it, it's, it's very tricky.
• 36:59
  Joan Green: So the more
• 36:59
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 37:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 37:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah, and I, I feel like this is a good moment to- we've kind of made this point a little bit, but I know in our notes beforehand, you said you really wanted to talk about why knowing the latest apps are...
• 37:15
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It's, that's a good thing, and we've talked about tips and tricks already, but it's not as important as the process of understanding and assessing where a student's barriers are.
• 37:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, so can you talk just a little bit directly about the difference between knowing the tech and learning how to assess a student's needs?
• 37:36
  Joan Green: I mean, that's really where our skills come in, right?
• 37:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 37:39
  Joan Green: to, you know, if somebody's having trouble read- now not everybody's a reading specialist, so, you know, and, and not everybody has to be a specialist in every area.
• 37:48
  Joan Green: But, um, you know, for me as a speech-language pathologist, if somebody's having trouble communicating, I'm thinking, do they have trouble articulating the sounds?
• 37:57
  Joan Green: Is it word retrieval?
• 37:58
  Joan Green: Is it sentence formulation?
• 38:00
  Joan Green: Is it auditory comprehension?
• 38:01
  Joan Green: I mean, there are a lot of, a lot of parts that go into communication, right?
• 38:05
  Joan Green: Executive functioning.
• 38:07
  Joan Green: Is it them imagining the task that they have to do?
• 38:11
  Joan Green: Is it getting started?
• 38:12
  Joan Green: Is it, um, sustaining attention during a task?
• 38:15
  Joan Green: Is it breaking up the project into a bunch of pieces?
• 38:18
  Joan Green: Is it finishing the task?
• 38:20
  Joan Green: I mean, there are all these different parts to these different things.
• 38:22
  Joan Green: Writing, is it n- having the background knowledge to what you wanna write?
• 38:26
  Joan Green: Is it the physical act of pen to paper or typing?
• 38:30
  Joan Green: Is it spelling?
• 38:31
  Joan Green: Is it syntax?
• 38:32
  Joan Green: Is it thought organization?
• 38:35
  Joan Green: I mean, do you see what I mean?
• 38:36
  Joan Green: Like, ev- everything has a lot of parts
• 38:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 38:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah, yeah
• 38:40
  Joan Green: skilled tutor or executive functioning coach or speech pathologist or occupational therapist to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of the individual student,
• 38:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 38:51
  Joan Green: then try to match the needs of the student.
• 38:54
  Joan Green: Like, while you're trying to improve the skill, which we want to improve the skills.
• 38:58
  Joan Green: I, I always sort of, you know, take my hands and, and show two pathways.
• 39:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Угу
• 39:03
  Joan Green: pathway is improving the skill.
• 39:05
  Joan Green: Drill and practice or doing whatever, playing games or, you know, I, I have fun listening to your podcast, you know, the improv game.
• 39:13
  Joan Green: I love these games that you've come up with, you know, to improve working memory
• 39:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah, I know.
• 39:18
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 39:18
  Joan Green: improve skills and retrieval or whatever, sustained attention or flexibility or whatever.
• 39:23
  Joan Green: And then the other is as you're improving the skill, which we want to do, we wanna compensate for the skill or look for an assistive technology, which is really any, any mainstream technology or specialized that somebody needs, and without it you can't do the thing
• 39:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Угу
• 39:40
  Joan Green: Right?
• 39:40
  Joan Green: And so it's not so easy, you know?
• 39:43
  Joan Green: And it really, it, it requires a lot of insight.
• 39:46
  Joan Green: And so that's what I love to do is, is try to, uh, read reports.
• 39:50
  Joan Green: I read a Most of my referrals come from educational psychologists and neuropsychologists, which is nice'cause I read these reports and I can...
• 39:58
  Joan Green: I don't do the testing and, but I c- And talking to parents and then talking to students because they, you know, they have to be willing to make a change, too, and what are their insights, and, and helping them feel in charge,
• 40:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 40:11
  Joan Green: and in control.
• 40:12
  Joan Green: Like, that's a huge thing, all the psychology there.
• 40:14
  Joan Green: So I like to, you know, offer as many choices to students as possible and let them be the owner of this cool tech stuff that
• 40:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 40:24
  Joan Green: will think is so cool.
• 40:26
  Joan Green: You know, it doesn't have to be for people with disabilities.
• 40:28
  Joan Green: It's just this cool thing that your computer
• 40:30
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): know how to do this cool thing.
• 40:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 40:32
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 40:36
  Joan Green: anymore
• 40:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It reminds me of, I was just at this research ed conference, and I was sitting next to one of, um, my colleagues, and she whipped out her iPad, and whenever anybody is listening to a lecture and starting to do interactive note-taking, I, I always like, I'm looking out of the corner of my eye, like,'cause I've, I've actually never taken the time to really learn how to use the iPad for that, and, uh, it's just always fascinating.
• 41:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I think it's so cool.
• 41:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, Joan, this is so much fun.
• 41:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I wanna say to everybody that Joan and I are in, um, also conversation around how to embed some of each other's expertise in our, in our communities so that you all can go deeper, uh, with, uh, those of you who are joining Joan.
• 41:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I'm also hoping then that we'll talk a lot more about digital organization in my community.
• 41:29
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, certainly go take Joan's courses, but, um, we will look at what's the least coaches need to know about, um,'cause I'm an expert in paper organization, but not digital organization to come.
• 41:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So that will be fabulous.
• 41:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Is there anything that we didn't get to talk about that you think you wanna really make sure you say to the people out there?
• 41:53
  Joan Green: Um, just, I mean, don't be af- there are a lot of students that are really anti-AI, and I think that AI is all around us, so we have to learn how to use it meaningfully and with intent.
• 42:04
  Joan Green: And for anybody out there who just wants a little bit of guidance, I do offer a free 15-minute phone call with anybody with no, no pressure, no strings attached, you know.
• 42:14
  Joan Green: Um, and you can access my calendar on my website in innovativespeech.com.
• 42:20
  Joan Green: Um, I also offer free professional consultations, 30-minute Zoom calls,'cause I- it's all about relationships and connection, and I, I really do enjoy meeting everybody, um, and, and trying to help move everybody forward.
• 42:34
  Joan Green: It's hard to keep up with tech.
• 42:35
  Joan Green: It's really hard.
• 42:36
  Joan Green: And so I don't even do therapy anymore.
• 42:38
  Joan Green: All I do is try to keep up with tech, and I always, whenever...
• 42:43
  Joan Green: I mean, I love getting new devices or, or seeing something new and exploring, like going to settings and clicking and accessibility and figuring out.
• 42:51
  Joan Green: I'm always thinking like,"Who could this help?" You know?
• 42:54
  Joan Green: Whereas a- most people that I know shun away from change, you know?
• 42:58
  Joan Green: Like you...
• 42:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right
• 42:58
  Joan Green: it's hard.
• 42:59
  Joan Green: It's hard to keep up with this.
• 43:00
  Joan Green: For some reason, it's just something that I love.
• 43:04
  Joan Green: you know, I'm always on the lookout for what could help students with disabilities or everyday students or seniors or just and teachers and everyday people, you know, because it's, it's really hard.
• 43:17
  Joan Green: And so what I like to do is that matchmaking.
• 43:21
  Joan Green: even if it's just a 15-minute call, I'm really not a strong salesman, and I can just help you figure out your next step.
• 43:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 43:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Beautiful.
• 43:29
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): The next right action, that's one of our tenets in the Anti-Boring Learning Lab.
• 43:32
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): The least they need to know and the next tiny action based on that.
• 43:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, such a pleasure to chat with you, Joan.
• 43:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Will you also just tell the people out there listening that they should like and subscribe to the podcast?
• 43:48
  Joan Green: Absolutely.
• 43:48
  Joan Green: I
• 43:49
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): that
• 43:49
  Joan Green: this is...
• 43:50
  Joan Green: Like and subscribe to the podcast.
• 43:51
  Joan Green: I think Gretchen is doing a great job.
• 43:53
  Joan Green: I've listened to most of them, and I'm always learning something new, and
• 43:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mhm.
• 43:57
  Joan Green: honored to be here'cause I'm impressed with the people that you've had
• 43:59
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 44:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh.
• 44:01
  Joan Green: to be among them
• 44:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes, you are indeed among them.
• 44:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And people, what I really need now is, um, Apple Podcast reviews.
• 44:09
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): There still are very few, if, if any of those, and this is...
• 44:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I don't know what episode you are, but you're between 10 and 15.
• 44:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So it'd be nice to get a few reviews out there,'cause that helps get the word out.
• 44:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So thanks in advance everybody, and Joan, I'll, I'll see you later, I'm sure of it.
• 44:26
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay,