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We Are Hypocrites · Nurtural Disasters

• speaker-0: Hello and welcome to Nurtural Disasters. This is a podcast for those of us with toxic or emotionally immature parents. We might not have a bunch of credentials next to our names, but we do have PhDs from the Hard Knocks University. Basically, we want this to be a validating space for adult children of parents who had no business having children. speaker-1: Hello! Welcome to Neutral Disasters with Ken and Lisa. This is episode 4. Lisa, do we have a name for this episode? speaker-0: Not yet, I'll think about it. I'll ask ChatGPT. And yeah, that's my usual default. You know what? I usually wait till the end of an episode, and I kind of get a feeling, a feel for it. I'm like, ⁓ there's an overall theme. Because sometimes we just wing it. And it's stuff that we'd never thought of initially. And I'm like, ⁓ that's so good. So let's just say our viewers will find out once it's published. speaker-1: I feel like winging it is a very underestimated trait of ⁓ life. ⁓ Spontaneity is, ⁓ it adds freshness to it, whatever you make, especially artistically. Don't you think? speaker-0: Yeah, totally, because I like to do an outline versus like chunks of what we're going to talk about, just so I can get kind of an idea. And I'm like, okay, that's good, that's good. then, you know, it's sometimes coming, you're talking, ideas just come up, oh, right, that I just remembered something else. speaker-1: Well, here's the thing. One thing to add to that is, you know, I like pro wrestling and a lot of the times the OG pro wrestlers would just have like a kind of like a, they want to have a script. They would just have like an outline. This is what I'm going to talk about in a promo. So I guess like more recently, like, especially in the bigger like promotions, like WWE, they have scripts, like people actually write the scripts for them. And you could really tell when it's something that someone is just spitballing from their head rather than a script. Some people cannot work with that script. And that's something that really takes away from the, I guess, the emotion of it. Unless you're like a pro actor or a method actor, it doesn't work the same way, does it? speaker-0: No. speaker-1: We are not method actors. speaker-0: I don't know, maybe... speaker-1: I don't know, is this the time you want to do that British accent and, you know, put yourself out there? speaker-0: was method. was totally Stanislavski method. ⁓ speaker-1: I was totally mesmerized by the British accent. speaker-0: No, I could tell. yeah, you rolling your eyes just or just. speaker-1: We're trying to count how many times you actually did it. I'm like, I don't know, five or six times or yeah. speaker-0: You're welcome, by the way. Yeah, there. All right, well, okay, let's see. So basically, ⁓ Ken's favorite TikTok mom is on the news again. speaker-1: She's your favorite TikTok mom. speaker-0: I love her. Yeah, I she was my mom. Not really. speaker-1: I'm not sure. I'm not sure what have you told about my mom? No, I mean, not my mom, your mom. It's like, wow. I'm not sure if, ⁓ is she better or worse? I don't even know. Like it's like a race to the bottom. speaker-0: It's hard to- Raise to the bottom? Maybe. Yeah, probably. I mean, there's probably a lot of stuff behind closed doors. Dormite mom's obviously not saying- I mean, I don't know if there's any physical abuse, because the daughter never- She's never come out. She's probably in hiding like, ⁓ my god, this bitch is so fucking embarrassing. speaker-1: Well, here's the thing. Like we're, we're mentioning that because she just recently did a, ⁓ interview with Fox news and it was like a two minute segment where they're in, she, was really like, she was kind of perpetuating the same talking points as she does in her, on her Tik Tok. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, speaker-1: Well, thing is, what's she saying that she was suicidal? She says that it causes like someone to be suicidal, but, ⁓ you know, it's of course she, she didn't dangle anything out there that would make her seem like a terrible parent. Like, why would she? ⁓ so she's, she's still pushing this narrative is like that she's totally blindsided by this supposed like a reaction from her daughter. Like she wasn't invited to her wedding and things like that. You could say that if you didn't dig deeper into. how she was or the details that you would believe this woman wholeheartedly. If you're watching Fox News on that day and you're seeing like that clip, wow, it's like, wow, this is really bad. It's like, could her kid do this to her? was like, do you realize that she did release her book the day of her daughter's wedding? ⁓ That's very coordinated. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, and I'm just wondering, how long did it take her to write this book? She's been writing it. I wonder if she planned to release it around the same time as her daughter. And her daughter said, no, I don't want you stealing my thunder. Or, you know, it's supposed to be my day. I don't know. It's alleged. I don't know. ⁓ And her daughter said, no, I'm not going to. If you're going to do that, you're out of my wedding. I could see Dormat Mam saying, no, it's our day. So I'm going to publish it when I feel like it. got uninvited, and then played the victim. That's what it sounds like to me. speaker-1: Yeah, it's very, I don't want to say it's like a bias kind of thing, but when you're the person that's giving your part of the story and there's nobody to check your story, because you don't get the both sides of it. So you could say whatever you want. You could throw the other person, other party under the mud, dragging through the mud or anything like that. So it's like, okay, who wants to tell a story where there's a villain? It's not a thing usually. Like usually people don't want to say I'm a terrible person here. Listen to my story. I'm a. Now you know why my kids ⁓ are not talking to me. When does that ever happen? No. Like if it was true, like she wouldn't be called Dorm Rat Mom. She'll be called Evil Mom. I step on my children. speaker-0: It's weird, when I was reading this article, they cited this one psychologist, Dr. Jonathan? Dr. Jonathan Alpert, a New York City psychotherapist. And he basically takes the side of the estranged parent because he said, parents are cut off because of who they voted for, what the news they watch or the views they express. And he's saying that he regularly works with families where estrangement is not driven by abuse or neglect, as much as it is about political identity. ⁓ That actually goes against every mental health professional who's ever worked with estranged children and estranged families. They will say the reason estrangement happens is invariably because there was abuse and neglect and the abuser would not change their ways. So this is so antithetical to every other mental health professional. So I thought, what? It gave me that Dr. Jonathan Coleman vibes. He's the one on, he was on Oprah's podcast. talking about a strange man and his daughter was actually estranged from him for like a few years and I guess they've reconciled since but he was a really arrogant guy. He was very condescending. He gave you the ick. I remember Ken being like, ⁓ this dude is so arrogant. I Googled him actually and well, there was an expose about him and Forbes.com is called Jonathan Alpert's misstatements, impossible misconduct. And I was like, ⁓ boy. Basically, like he's lying about his credentials. He's not a psychotherapist because you need to be licensed. In order to have that license, you need a PhD. He only has a master's degree. I don't mean that just only, but that means you're just, are the masters. You, you're a therapist. You're not a psychologist or psychotherapist. speaker-1: What is a psychotherapist? Is it like something that you're a therapist, but you also have like a psychology masters or a PhD? I don't even know what that is. It almost seems like it's a, I don't want to say it's a made up thing, but what is a psychotherapist? Yeah. I'm like, what makes a person a therapist and then what makes another person a psychotherapist? speaker-0: Well... Basically, let me see, a trained mental health professional such as a psychologist, psychiatrist, or counselor who uses talk therapy to treat emotional problems, mental illnesses, and behavioral issues. Let's see. speaker-1: That sounds like a therapist to me. Is a psychotherapist a more advanced kind of therapist or do they have like psycho powers? Psycho powers, yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, they're very psycho. Yeah, very, yeah. Basically, it's just talk therapy to help people understand manage mental health. speaker-1: Which is pretty much all a therapy. speaker-0: It's like CBD, right? Cognitive chemotherapy. speaker-1: Yeah, CBT and then, and then the other part, yeah, could use CBD to dull the pain. speaker-0: Delta pain, right? Or psychedelics. That's my therapist. He wanted me to get on psychedelics and do Did you? I'm so freaking terrified of psychedelics. You know, it like literally rewires your brain for the better. And I've heard there's like all the studies are very, very positive about that. speaker-1: I don't know. It's always like, want, you always want to hear the bad side of it. Cause there's no such thing as like a perfect fix for anything. So as someone that has like a sample, some drugs and maybe some psychedelics, at least for a lot of people, especially if you're in therapy, ⁓ if you're a very anxious person, whatever you are anxious about, when you take the psychedelic, it is more likely than not that, ⁓ you will start. speaker-0: Yeah, that's true. speaker-1: Your brain will make something so scary that you'll just have to deal with it until the thing wears off. speaker-0: Hmm. From my understanding, what I was told is that it's basically like anesthesia. It would be a micro dosing. It wouldn't be a full on ⁓ dose, but it's like anesthesia because you can cut in deeper to the places that are the most painful. You know, like when you have surgery, you don't just be like, okay, well, here's a Tylenol and let me just cut your leg. You put somebody under and that's basically, that was my impression of psychedelics, psychedelic therapy. speaker-1: I think that we should try it and then record a podcast with it. speaker-0: I thought about that and I'm fine with microdosing. My thing is that I get paranoid. I've only, I'm not a pothead, but I've smoked weed a few times and I hated it. I hated the way it me feel. I don't get really paranoid. I have a tendency to like, I had like psychosis. I'm not a drugs person. So to me, I'm just leery about it. But for me, know, and I've had so many people just swear by it. In fact, I know somebody who has seizures and they have a neck tick, like always they couldn't help it. So what happens is they get every week or so go get a full-on infusion of psilocybin, I think it's mushrooms. speaker-1: Yeah, ⁓ that's a psychedelic, a very popular one. speaker-0: Yeah, so she is infused with it full on, gets like horrible hallucinations and it's a horrific experience, but it's the only thing that stops her neck tics and her ailments. What are we talking about? We totally got set. ⁓ Yeah, the expose about that dude, that Dr. Jonathan, what's his face, Albert. I guess he misrepresented himself according to this interesting article. It's just so weird. think because Fox News kind of skews towards an older audience. Yeah. you have that audience, probably a lot of them are estranged from their children. It kind of reaffirms their belief of like, I was a good parent. I did everything I could. speaker-1: Yes it does, so... speaker-0: I'm the victim, you cut me off. speaker-1: Not only that, but it's also the narrative that just because you're, let's say Fox News, you're a little right leaning and you voted for a particular president that your kids aren't going to talk to you. So it's trying to push that narrative that political standing is ruining families, but it's really on the kids end. Like the parents are kind of like the level headed ones. The kids are kind of, well, they don't like how the political climate is. So they're decided to not talk to their parent. If that's stop bias, I don't know what it is, but You could really see it as it's a little part of how ⁓ their relationship is. If it's truly is just one kind of like morsel where it's just a political like disagreement. I don't think usually children disengage from their parents like that. I really don't. If it's just one little thing, it's kind of like the stereotype that during Thanksgiving don't talk politics, right? Yeah. A lot of people could still have very, at least surface level relationships. not talking about politics. So that's what I see here. Children could talk to their parents about, and still have a good relationship with their parents despite political leanings. So to say that that's like mostly the cause of it, I don't think it's true. I think it's a culmination of a lot of things that causes estrangement. So to say it's one thing, it's of like scapegoating the, your kid turned into a liberal and now I don't know what to deal with the kid. and supposedly now it's on Fox News. So it's definitely pushing a narrative. So do watch that interview or read that article with a grain of salt. speaker-0: I totally agree. Have you noticed that people who lean towards the political, okay, I don't want this to be a political podcast, but people who tend to lean towards the extremes, there's a certain personality, right? Especially people lean towards to the right, I've noticed they tend to lack empathy. It's gonna show in your parenting and also to the extreme left, there's a whole other. This is a certain personality type that like. speaker-1: Yeah, like a predisposition. If you're acting like that, then you tend to have a certain personality type. You're probably less willing to view other people's viewpoints or you're just more conservative in your views. You're not prone to change or you're more prone to change. speaker-0: Exactly. So that's probably when say, oh, my kids have talking to me because I voted for that man. And I was like, just because of that? No, there's a lot more leading up to it. speaker-1: Yeah, because I could just say, my dad votes Democrat. I still have problems with my dad. So I vote Democrat. I am an independent. ⁓ I could see validity from both sides, ⁓ but I don't get along with my dad. So that debunks whatever kind of ⁓ political leanings ⁓ disrupting your family dynamic. speaker-0: Exactly. Yeah, I think my mom's always voted Democrat. I mean, from what I know. speaker-1: It is not an indicator, and nor should it be like an indicator of how your pair- like a predictor of how relationships would be. is interesting that Fox News did cover it, so... speaker-0: Right, consider the source. speaker-1: Yeah, someone saw opportunity to push a narrative. Well, they're professional journalists, so we don't want to say like Fox News is not news news, but they saw opportunity and they went with it. speaker-0: I mean, sure, dormant mom. There was another one in my feed that showed up, Marnie. This lady, she posts TikToks about her daughter. And with this one video, she said, my daughter's begging me to take down my videos because it embarrasses her and keep posting videos even after her daughters told her. And that's when I was like, ⁓ this woman, she's violating her daughter's boundaries, but she's probably been doing it the whole time she's had her daughter. And her daughter's so fed up. Parents who violate your boundaries, don't do it one time. This woman just keeps doubling down. There's something up with this woman. speaker-1: So what I think about that is ⁓ I wonder how much of this child's life is in like social media. Me and Lisa are in that generation where we're in that middle spot where we see a lot of our friends post like pictures of their ⁓ children. So a lot of the children's life that they have grown up in the public eye, people are looking at them that they don't even know. It's like strangers looking at their kids. So it makes me wonder how much of this lady's child's life that she posted online that the child just, mom, please don't post this stuff online. And I always wonder, is that going to be a problem in 10 to 15 years when the kids are all teenagers and into adulthood that a big portion of their life isn't the public eye. They're on Instagram, they're on Facebook. There's pictures of their kids from when they're like one or two years old, from christenings, from any kind of like birthdays that their whole life is. pretty much for all strangers to see. And then I wonder about this woman that's like, okay, your child is having a lot of problems with you airing out the dirty laundry out there, but she's still doing it. So it's... speaker-0: and making yourself the victim at the same time. That really reinforces your estrangement. It's just a reminder of their constant toxicity, and they will not stop and they'll not change. speaker-1: Well, at that point, usually if you're trying to work on the relationship, please don't put it online. I don't think there's any kind of positive feedback you could get that will fix your relationship. All you are is when you put stuff online is try to have a confirmation bias for your point of view. I'll just bring it up. It's like when I broke up with my ex-girlfriend, ⁓ especially if you grow up with social media, you break up with your ex-girlfriend, you break up with your ex-boyfriend. They have their one side, everybody picks a side. You say one thing on social media, I say one thing on social media, and then people pick sides. People are going to look at one side of the story, they're going to support you or not support you. So just when you're trying to do that and try to fix your relationship with your child, there's that spot where you're trying to become an influencer and trying to fix your relationship with your child. At a certain point, what is the priority? And when you put that out there, I think a lot of people in public know what the priority is, produce content. speaker-0: You know what I was thinking about when I was reading this article? People could say the same thing about us. We're going, basically we have a whole podcast based around putting our parents on blast. And I thought, are we the hypocrites too? It's like we're talking shit about Dormant Mom and Marnie and this other lady, Diane. She's nuts. And I thought, wait, are we doing the same thing? Are we hypocrites? speaker-1: Well, here's the thing that I know that they won't say. We are hypocrites. Yeah, let's take accountability. Hey, Lisa, are you a perfect kid to your parents? Probably not. Am I a perfect kid to my parents? No. But a lot of the influencers that push this narrative, oh, I'm not total victim. I did nothing wrong. I would never say that I did nothing wrong. I was a highly rebellious kid. I was a kid that... speaker-0: ⁓ okay. ⁓ speaker-1: If you, if you were a normal parent and not like my parents, like you'll be like, what is up with him? My childhood was normal. And then I hit a teenager rebellion and it lasted into my like mid twenties. And I was just like, stuff I did my twenties. I don't want her to talk about anymore. We are definitely not free from blame. We are just trying to give like, maybe like a, kind of like a narrative for a community of people that do have issues with kind of like their parents and they do want to. kind of have like some camaraderie with someone that has similar problems with them. And we're just trying to put that out there and maybe try to entertain people at the same time. speaker-0: Yeah, you know what? It just came to me. Maybe that's the title for episode four. Are we hypocrites? speaker-1: Are we terrible people? feel like ⁓ admitting that you're not perfect and you're very flawed is a very important and kind of enlightening kind of ⁓ approach. speaker-0: And also, as children, you're allowed to make mistakes, you Of course you're gonna... Have you noticed that it's always the good parents who say, ⁓ was I a good parent? They always question themselves. It's always the bad parents, all the shitty parents who are like, I was a good parent. I was a good parent. I never did anything wrong. Have you noticed that? speaker-1: Yeah, people that can't find fault with themselves always think that they're in the right. And that's a very dangerous thing. You have to be humble. You have to be a Kendrick Lamar and be humble. speaker-0: ⁓ humility's for losers. We already established that. speaker-1: It is, it is. We're on the most part, a lot of us are losers. takes a certain type of person to be a CEO, an influencer. Anybody that feels shame and feel guilt towards something, you can't be a very good influencer. It's just harder. It's way harder. You have a soul, you have like morals. Tough for you. You can't scam anybody because you're going to be awake at night and think that man, is this really worth it? speaker-0: or getting like severe imposter syndrome. speaker-1: Yeah, you just, yeah, you can't be, you can't be like a, like a politician or something like that, or influencer. You just can't, ⁓ you feel too much guilt. That's a emotional handicap. speaker-0: It's so true, because I've known a lot of elderly people, once I get to know them and they find out that they're, at least one of their kids doesn't talk to them, I go, ⁓ I could see why. The one thing I noticed that they all have in common is that they're all one uppers. So I remember this one lady, she actually had written a book and she asked me to write a screenplay for her based on her book. And she was nuts. made me send an NDA the first five seconds I had a meeting with her. It was long and I'm like, okay. And then she said, oh, your writing's really simple. And then when I saw her writing, it was full of typos. And even her social media is full of typos. I won't say her name. But she was so crazy, she reminded me of another person I knew who was also really nuts. I found out she told me, my son won't talk to me, he says I'm crazy. And I'm like, yeah, because you're a crazy popper. It was very, very, the one-upping. There was this other guy I used to work with. He was an elderly gentleman, maybe in the 70s, but he had a very, he was very successful. And then just started to work in a regular office like me just to get out of the house or something. But he was very arrogant. Me being bilingual, he would just say, I speak five languages and I don't even have an accent like you. And I'm like, what? And then I found out, oh, my son won't talk to me, even though I just liquidated my assets, it gave him $3 million. I'm like, um, really? And he's like, oh, it's my ex-wife. She poisoned him against me. And I thought, uh-huh. And people who have that one upper kind of a personality, nothing you do is good enough. So I could see, yeah, the way that is like, oh, this is probably how you treated your child. speaker-1: Yeah, I've dealt with one-uppers. I've had friends that are one-uppers and it's, I don't even know what you do with that. Cause you know that if you tell them about any kind of like accomplishments or anything that comes up, like they'll, they'll say, ⁓ yeah. But did you do this? And did you hear about my project? So it's like, ⁓ man, to talk to someone like that is emotionally draining. Like, cause you know it's coming. Mm-hmm. You almost want to set it up. It's like, well, let me let me feed some fake stuff there. And I told them I become a maybe I told them I'm president of ⁓ something like an organization and they're gonna be like, try to one up you right there. So it's like, I'm the pope. ⁓ I'm the pope. was like, well, I just found Jesus last night. So I'm like, OK, so yeah, it's it's what that really speaker-0: running for actual president. speaker-1: sums up to is when you're dealing with a one-upper like that, that the person that you're, that's one-upping you really is not acknowledging your achievements. Now I've talked to my therapist, a couple therapists that if you deal with someone that's like a one-upper, it could be necessarily like a, ⁓ kind of like a jealousy kind of thing, ⁓ or a insecurity kind of thing, or they could just be a narcissist or they're, which is like, a combination of all those things. It's trying to discount your accomplishments ⁓ in some way by minimizing it to what they're doing. I think for a good amount of people that are doing this, I don't think they're actually realizing that they're doing this. I really think that it's almost like a reflex. Sometimes they know that they're trying to one-up you. ⁓ If they do know that they're trying to one-up you, then we know that is definitely for malicious intent. They're trying to bully at all you. Older people, think it only gets worse. Like if you have that kind of personality, there's no way that you usually improve. There's a small chance that you improve. You find enlightenment and you kind of look within. But when you're older, you're kind of set in your ways. You're more conservative. You think that your way or the highway. So speaker-0: Yeah speaker-1: I know, especially with my dad, as he got older, he's gotten more irrational, more angry. So it's kind of like, whatever he didn't like from my grandpa or his dad, he became that. So I'm waiting for myself to become that too. speaker-0: I don't think your dad's as self-aware as you are. speaker-1: I'm only self aware because I really, actually, I think, ⁓ me and you are the same, Lisa. We're very intrigued about how people's personality works and how our, how we're reacting to things. We're that's actually our interest. That's why I've kind of surprised that we're not both in like that major in psychology, right? It's like, we, we figured this out later in life was like, damn, we should have just went to school for psychology. seems so interesting. It's very much needed. speaker-0: Yeah, but I wouldn't go back unless it's what I know now. Dr. Rami even says, I know I quote her all the time, that there was no class in narcissism. was another psychologist I follow, Dr. Ingrid Clayman, I think that's her name. She wrote this really amazing book called Believing Me. ⁓ She has a new one about the faun response. She said she had to learn about narcissism from an Instagram meme or something. And then she's like, when she found out about it, she's like, ⁓ right. And then she was finally able to heal. She has a crazy story. Her stepfather was a sociopath and he ended up taking her as a teenager when she was like 15 to Vegas and introduced her as his girlfriend. Basically tried to marry her. And then when he brought her back, she went to the school authorities and said it and he denied it. Her mom believed the stepdad, the school didn't believe it. It was crazy. So even with all the credentials, it's still, unless you're a survivor and you've studied narcissism, you're not going to be as helpful as you think you are. speaker-1: Yeah, I guess we could always go into psychology now, or we could make that time machine and go back and... Yeah, but it's better late than never to figure these things out. speaker-0: with what we know now. Yeah, there's another one. She's a, I don't know if she's a psychologist or a therapist, but she was the ex-wife of the Wolf of Wall Street guy. Yeah, he was very abusive to her. And when she left, she ended up going to therapy, went to school for psychology. And now she talks about her relationship with him and how abusive it was. And she has a really good insight. She wrote this book. I haven't read it yet, but it looks really interesting. I know I'm so backed up with my book reading. But she went back later on in life. She was not a spring chicken. But if she didn't have all this life experience, you know, that's the catch-22 of life. If she didn't have all the experience, she wouldn't be the great psychologist that she is now. Maybe that should be a thing, unless you shouldn't go into psychology, unless you've already healed yourself and you've had life experience, right? speaker-1: Well, at least, ⁓ at least that's a good kind of like start. ⁓ I don't think that that should be a prerequisite for everybody. I think there should be always be more psychologists and therapists out there. There's definitely a need for that. I think when people say there's a mental health crisis, it's acknowledging that there is a problem. I don't think it's as crisis as in, ⁓ everybody's just starting to get crazy. I think it's just, everybody is acknowledging that they need help. And there's, I do know, ⁓ friends that are in the mental health space and it's really, they're being stretched very thin. anybody that's like younger, that's listening to this podcast, definitely. If you find this as your passion, definitely do it. Even if you don't find it as a passion, you just find it as interesting. definitely do it. There's always a need, I think. Don't let personal experience deter you from this. I feel like, ⁓ I think as you get older, more seasoned in life and get through life experiences, I think that actually grows with you. So when you're like, ⁓ when you're like learning psychology and stuff like that in school, ⁓ you might not know that it's ⁓ applicable for you at the moment, but let's say you're like in your thirties and forties, then you know, it's like, okay. Okay. Now, now this is, I could use this to apply to me. So I think that definitely don't have a deterrent to that. speaker-0: So Ken, one thing I noticed about the Gen Z, Gen Alpha nowadays, they are so freaking smart because they have all this disposal literally at their fingertips. speaker-1: Well, smart is like a lot of people have seen into that, yeah, well, knowledgeable about certain things, right? speaker-0: Yeah, for instance, I have a cousin, she's a teenager, and she knows about narcissism. And she knows about psychology just from being on social media. And it's out there, it's so different. She knows about it and can, she's like, ⁓ yeah, and recognize the manipulation tactics. We didn't have that. I didn't know about narcissism until I was like 27. speaker-1: Well, but with that, they have to be careful because who's feeding them the information and what information are they consuming? Let's say your cousin just got a bunch of that dormite mom and imagine how her viewpoint would be different, right? That's why people are very kind of like very wary of ⁓ social media algorithms. What are you feeding the children and what are you building their brains like? speaker-0: But there's also real psychologists like Dr. Romany you could follow and they can be, it's just wow. The nuggets of information that she gives in every single episode. It's like, ⁓ my God, that's exactly what I went through. Like it took someone like her years later, like to vocalize and articulate exactly what we went through. That is invaluable. Like, man, if I had this when I was a freaking teenager, I would have made so many different choices. I would have, ⁓ my God. And now kids, and they have that access, which is so great. And they're a lot more aware about mental health. There's a lot less stigma as well with psychology. A lot of elderly people, tell them, ⁓ have you gone to therapy? They give you this look of what? I'm not crazy. Or you'll get the laughing at you like, no, honey, I'm not crazy. No, no. So I've had both. speaker-1: not crazy, I'm not a fool. By the way, I think they probably view it as like, as a therapy as a weakness. speaker-0: Yes, there's something wrong with you. You only go when there's something wrong, not when you're... Well, I mean, you go when there's like an issue, but at the same time, it can help your communication. speaker-1: Yeah, here's a nugget I should drop on all our listeners. there is probably something wrong with you. I'm not saying you Lisa, I'm saying to the listeners. I was like, ⁓ yeah, nobody's perfect. There's something wrong with everybody for a lot of people. Do they want to work on it? It's totally up to the person. That's a free will, but there's definitely something wrong with everybody. There is no perfect person. Like you could see like, ⁓ yeah, Nobel laureate, a captain of industry, even a regular school teacher. There's something wrong. What I want to say is that if the thing that is wrong is really hindering your enjoyment of life, definitely go get it fixed. speaker-0: It reminds me of my uncle. He had never been of therapy before and he and his now ex, they were having some issues and they went to therapy. And he was telling me that he thought therapy was more for mental health, severe mental health issues. And he said it really helped him communicate better. And he never thought of therapy that way. And basically the therapist, he said the therapist took his side and I could see why because his ex was a little cray. I could see why people think it's only for the crazies. No, but that's changing a lot, I've noticed. speaker-1: Yeah, it takes a lot to admit that you need help. Think about it if you're, you're alcoholic or addicted to gambling or addicted to drugs. It takes a lot out of you to go get help admitting that you have a problem. Yeah. speaker-0: It's actually pretty brave. speaker-1: It is very brave. also if you go to therapy, if you're ⁓ not air, all therapy is the same. Like my dad went to therapy, but he didn't look to fix things that was affecting our relationship. just fixed other stuff. So he technically didn't get a lot of, ⁓ out of his therapy. So it's, it's that you're, ⁓ is it your uncle, ⁓ just him trying to get some kind of like coping skills, trying to. get portions of his life like, is this, would the right thing be fixed or just to have someone acknowledge it is so important. So I hope he got a lot out of that. speaker-0: He said he did. Yeah. Really, how to communicate better, ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah, it's a communication is really important. Like I had a couple of therapy before with my fiance and it's when you get into fights, it's like, ⁓ a lot of the times it's like, give it a couple of minutes, you cool down so you don't say anything ⁓ that you'll regret. And you try to think about how it is sounding when you say certain things and just acknowledge it. So it definitely cut down a lot on the. like the problems. Well, I won't say it's like the media problems. There are still problems, but yeah, but it definitely gives you like a like a skill set or a toolkit to approach problems. speaker-0: You know, actually, I want to go back and talk about us being hypocrites. There's this thing I remember reading and someone wrote, if they wanted to be remembered better, they should have behaved better. And that's so stuck with me because there's a lot of bullshit excuses for shitty parents. ⁓ they tried their best. like, no, a lot of them don't try their best. And with the doormat mom. Us, you know, if we're airing the dirty laundry, we're just basically stating what they did. We're not making ourselves out to be victims. I was the best daughter. I never did anything wrong. speaker-1: Now, if, yeah, that's so true. It's a, it's, if, if you hear something like that, that I'm like the best mom or I'm the best child. ⁓ and, and that's all they're feeding you, you know, it's like, ⁓ it's, it's a lie of admission. think it's a lot. What about the bad stuff you did? And if they say they never did anything bad, definitely be very skeptical of that. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, zero accountability. speaker-1: Yeah, it's no accountability. And that's the problem, right? There's, there's a lot of people out there that have no accountability and they're like, I'm never going to admit that I'm wrong. And there's something wrong with that because you could even tell them, Hey, this is proof that you did something wrong. Just acknowledge it. speaker-0: Yeah, no one's a perfect parent, but at least you tried. speaker-1: No one's a perfect parent. No one's a perfect kid. So it's, it's, it's the thing that's constantly you're learning as you go. No book could really teach you everything. No seminar, no therapist could teach you everything. ⁓ I think the only thing we kind of want to just want everybody to just acknowledge is just acknowledge when you fuck up. speaker-0: Yes. speaker-1: It's okay. It's such a human thing to mess up. speaker-0: And to my dad's credit, he has a lot of limitations, but he says, you know, I tried my best, but not in a way he really tried. I think he really did because he's not aware of his own limitations, but it was never malicious. So, you know, I do have to recognize that. speaker-1: Well, it's a thing that's, ⁓ there's a difference between I tried my best and I feel bad for not meeting expectations, at least for you as, as, as your parent. and there's a difference between that and I tried my best and my kids are not grateful because that's totally different by your dad telling you that he admits that he tried his best. He probably didn't have the enough tool tools at his disposal or knowledge. or even ability because it's just how his personality and that's how his shortcomings are. I think he admitted it to you without really admitting it to you that he wasn't the tip-top dad that usually that people were expecting. Contrast that with your mom. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, zero accountability. speaker-1: Yeah, no accountability whatsoever. it's like, okay. So she's probably still running around out there somewhere, somewhere on somewhere on the East coast. Just, just a gaslighting people, you know. Daughter? I have no daughter. Yeah, she's probably doing that right now. speaker-0: She's making herself out to be a victim. I know for a fact that she's so embarrassed by the fact that I'm no contact. speaker-1: It's exhausting to be pushing that narrative all the time. speaker-0: You know, narcissists are all about appearances. It makes her look really bad. And she's very, she's very competitive with her siblings, especially her sisters. So the fact that, you know, if someone brings up the fact that, your kid doesn't talk to you, ⁓ but she'll go into this victimized, like, I paid for him, I paid, I did this, I did that. Uh-huh. And I'm sure if somebody brought up, ⁓ you did a lot of really horrible things, this and that, she would just be like, okay, well, she does it. The thing she does is she goes, she cuts you off and goes, okay. And then just walks away. And like, it doesn't wanna hear it. It just. speaker-1: That's, that's, that's mature. speaker-0: Yeah, I think she has deep down. She's a very insecure person and she has a lot of shame There's a tons and tons of shame and she will do anything and everything in her power not to feel it So though it'll be projection. Yeah, she'll project she'll Maybe she'll scream maybe she'll name call whatever she needs to do to protect that shame because it's so painful for her it would have just I don't think she would be able to handle it. And I think that's the deep down that they say that's the root of all narcissists. speaker-1: Yeah, that is true. A lot of ⁓ root of all narcissism is a Achilles heel of insecurity. If someone pokes upon that, it just gets them all riled up and it is based upon insecurity. ⁓ don't think that narcissists are infallible. It's really that they're trying to protect the narrative and protect how they're being viewed. So they will do everything in their power to keep that narrative, making them... in the driver's seat of that narrative, so. speaker-0: And you can see that with these estranged moms on YouTube and TikTok, and I guess there's some of the viewers, they'll write like, ⁓ no wonder your parents, your child doesn't talk to you. And they will just lash out rather than say, ⁓ I can see, or not even respond. They will go on the attack mode, which is very telling. speaker-1: Yeah, it always goes to attack mode. It's because they're not admitting fault for that. If you admit fault, you'd be like, well, maybe, maybe that is true. ⁓ I wish it was different. No, it's like, you're wrong. My kid is a piece of crap. How dare you side with my kid. speaker-0: How dare you say it with this ungrateful little bastard. That's what Dormat Mom calls her daughter. ⁓ speaker-1: I don't know, not to be mean or anything. Is she getting more wrinkly by the day? Is that rage is like really eating her up? She's really wrinkly. I watched that video. She was very wrinkly. It's like a prune at that point. She's got pick this up and be like, Hey, I heard this podcast was talking crap about. speaker-0: You know... Now we're gonna get a defamation lawsuit, can't think. speaker-1: It is not a defamation, she does look like a prune. my eye, my eyeballs are viewing it as such. Now, now here's the thing, it's like she could be a prune and be like a wonderful lady. There's a lot of wonderful prunes out there. speaker-0: I think is she so ugly on the inside that it's just speaker-1: Yeah, ugly on the inside trumps any kind of ugly on the outside. She's an angry prune. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. She's scary. Like when I see her videos, I'm kind of like, ugh, I get scared. speaker-1: because of the prune-ness? speaker-0: Her attitude, the way she talks, there's like an anger there, you know? She's obviously hurt. It's narcissistic injury. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: she's hurt. And then she posts videos, she's trying to get like confirmation bias and she's trying to make a good living out of it. She's getting popularity out of this. So it's just, it's not like a zero sum kind of thing. speaker-0: Have you seen the YouTube of this lady called Diane and her husband? I don't know, I don't remember his name. But they do these documentaries of their strange daughter, but it's like very, it's black and white. And it's very dramatic and very, very corny to the point where I watch it and I kinda, I do like a kinda chuckle. It's like, my daughter won't talk to me. And she's like sitting in front of a piano and going, ⁓ And then it's like, I didn't say I was a perfect parent. And she has like this voice too, that's just like. I wasn't the perfect parent, but I was a good mom. You know, it's so corny. speaker-1: Is this supposed to be parody? speaker-0: That's what it is. That's what I thought. like, is this a, I thought she was parodying, be doing a parody of the estranged parents, but no, this is like a real thing. I need, I'm surprised that, oh, I need to send it to you. Yeah, I think it's called, her thing is called estranged, literally something estranged. Let me look it up right now on YouTube. Let me see. Yeah, it's just literally her YouTube channel is called estranged parents and she has 26,000 subscribers on YouTube. Okay. speaker-1: We should really say something ridiculous so people follow us. speaker-0: Yeah, this lady, she's, I think she's like, behind the eyes, she has like crazy looking eyes too, first. And when she talks, I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah, it's called A Strange Parent, and this lady's Diane. She has short hair, like, doormat mom, and glasses. And she does these, and she's 100 % real. Okay, I'm gonna send you all these videos, you just, tell me what you think. And of course, know, half of the comments are like, I can see why your daughter went no contact. And the other half is just like, don't listen to the haters. ⁓ I can hear you typing. It's called estranged parents. That's name of the YouTube channel. And you'll recognize her. She really short hair, salt and pepper hair, glasses. speaker-1: Wait, what's she called? Yeah. Is it like really short hair? Like my daughter stopped talking to me so I let her go? Estrangement parents? Is that it? Estrangement entertainment? speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, so I let her go, yeah, that's her. And yeah, if you hover over the video, it's like she's looking at her phone like, ⁓ no, my daughter called me. It's so dramatic. speaker-1: Unfortunately, it reminds me of like Jamie Lee Curtis and I have a story about Jamie. I do. have a story about Jamie Lee Curtis when I used to work at that shoe store that I mentioned. Yeah. She came in one time and then she was really rude to me. didn't acknowledge I was a human being. Really? So every time I see on TV, I'm like that bitch. speaker-0: ⁓ interesting. ⁓ I did not know this tea. speaker-1: I don't mind her as an actress, I don't think she's a fine actress, I don't- speaker-0: She's a nipple baby. speaker-1: Of course, ⁓ Tony Curtis' daughter. Hollywood royalty at that point. He was very famous during his time. speaker-0: Yeah, some like it hot. That's a classic. speaker-1: I actually like I was thinking about that movie the other day. was like, ⁓ man, I should watch it again. It's a it's it's a good movie. It's so silly. speaker-0: It holds up. know who was really rude to me when I was working in retail, when I was in college? So this actress, she was on Modern Family. speaker-1: Yeah, I hope. Is that the me? Is that the mom? The main mom? speaker-0: Yeah, she was a total Karen. I, at that time she was on that show, Boston Market, whatever it's called. speaker-1: Boston Legal or Boston Public? there's a couple of Boston. Is it the law one? Boston Market. That is a restaurant. speaker-0: Yeah. Boston Market. Oh, I didn't know I didn't watch that show but I recognize her face on TV. So she was screaming out the manager who happened to be called Lisa as well. And she's like, I want my fucking crib like screaming and I'm like, I know hormones like fuck you up as a pregnant. speaker-1: There we go. We needed that one episode impersonation or British accent. You got it. speaker-0: She's not British. She's from Boston. Mark. speaker-1: Yeah, but we got that impression in. speaker-0: She was like screaming at the manager and I'm like, when she left, I'm like, Lisa, what's what happened? Like, ⁓ somebody, they delivered the wrong crib or something that she from her registry. I'm like, ⁓ okay, whatever. You know, cause the people in the warehouse, they were just a bunch of dudes are like stoned. They didn't give a shit. So I could see that like they fucking up people's orders. And then she came back a second time and I rang her up and I said, ⁓ do you want this gift wrap? And she goes, your whole life is gift wrapping. And I'm like, okay. So do you want me to gift-rupt? And she's like, no, I don't want you to mess it up. And I'm like, okay. And then she came back the third time and I was ringing her up and I was like, oh, do you want this? She's like, you can just chuck it in the bag if you want. I'm like, okay. And then when she got, she and her husband split up years later and I was like, oh, no wonder he probably couldn't deal with her shit. speaker-1: Here's one thing I must ⁓ mention with that. think that someone mentioned that they would meet someone. ⁓ It was actually another podcast. They were saying they were meeting John Cena and John Cena has this reputation of being a very nice guy. He'll sign for everybody. He'll pose for pictures. But for some reason this guy like mentioned, well, yeah, John, you, and he, John was very dismissive. I think they did some investigation where John was actually going through a divorce at that time or separation. So that's why. So sometimes you see a celebrity and there are human beings. And I would like to add that sometimes you just catch them on a bad day. But that lady came in three times. She was bad all three times. So she's just like a fricking bitch at that point. That's not even a pattern. That's like her personality. Like this is like, this is what she is. She's a bitch. Cause literally she came in the second time. She'd been like, ⁓ man, it's so bad. And she'd be like, don't worry about it and stuff like that. And the thing is, if you're treating people like strangers like this, speaker-0: If there's a power... speaker-1: What are you treating your family like sometimes? Like sometimes you're just, this person didn't do anything really. Like you didn't do anything wrong to her and she's just like treating you like garbage. speaker-0: literally was like making like minimum wage, just working at a baby shop while I was in college, you know, I was just maybe. speaker-1: I can't wait to put her on blast when we're actually famous, huh? speaker-0: Yeah. Be careful who you step on on your way to the top, right? speaker-1: ⁓ people should always be aware of that. Definitely treat everybody with utmost respect because they might end up being a CEO one day or just like a very influential person and they might hold a grudge. A lot of people do, maybe even us. speaker-0: Yeah, but I have no problem talking about her. I mean, what's she gonna do, sue me? I mean... speaker-1: I mean, happened. It happened. I mean, yeah, I was trying to sell Nike's to Jamie Lee Curtis and she was just didn't acknowledge that I was a human being. And the thing is, it was my fault. My coworkers was like, she's always like this. I'm like, I still was like, man, you know what? I'm going to try to give her some good customer service. She wasn't having any of it. I had a very good experience with other people. Like other famous people have walked in and was like, wow, they're very nice and they're so cool. speaker-0: That's thing you notice when you work in the service industry. You know, I've worked in restaurants, shops, whatever. A lot of celebrities come in and most of them are really cool. They don't want a lot of attention. They just want to do their thing, eat, shop, leave, for the most part. But other people, they're just, ⁓ my God. speaker-1: Yeah, there's a couple of people I want to shout out. They're really so nice. One of them was probably Maria Sharapova, famous tennis players, sweetest person ever. ⁓ cool. Yeah, she was very nice. ⁓ Yeah, she is. And she's very tall. She's very, she's very nice. ⁓ I'm not sure if you ever, ⁓ you ever watched that show with Run DMC with Rev Run. He had a wife there named Justine Simmons. speaker-0: I another- speaker-1: She was the sweetest lady ever. Like I knew who she was. It was like, ⁓ my gosh. She was just, she's like showing off her like wedding ring. was like, look at this. And she's like, I'm like, Jesus, that's huge. So it's like, ⁓ yeah, there's certain people that they're like, ⁓ yeah, I'm a celebrity, but yeah, but I'm still going to treat you with respect. Like in the service community. Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to help her. I'm just trying to have conversation. She was really nice. Like there are people out there that are just like, you know what? Why am I going to treat someone like they're garbage? speaker-0: It tells you a lot about their character. And you know, if they wanted to be remembered better, they should have behaved better. speaker-1: Because there's, there's, there's things where it's an anomalies, right? Someone will have a bad experience with someone, but if a lot of people say, ⁓ yeah, I didn't have that experience with that person at all. So that must be a one-time thing. Now, if everybody just has like a community of people just say that person's a piece of shit, then yeah, you should believe that. speaker-0: Should we name this episode, if they want it to be remembered better, they should have behaved better? speaker-1: It's so long of a title, speaker-0: Yeah, you know what, are we hypocrites? I'll just leave that. speaker-1: Or it's like, ⁓ if you want to be like, stop being an asshole. So easy. If you're not asshole, a lot of people will end up liking you. Like on the most part, can't please everybody, but someone will be like, man, that guy's really nice though. Or she's really nice. So even if this person has that shortcoming, very likable still. speaker-0: Well, on that note, that's the end of episode four. And stay tuned. We are trying to post every single week on Saturdays. So look out for that. Make sure you follow us on Instagram, on Nurtural Disasters, and tell your friends about it. speaker-1: Yeah, we got some ratings, so people are listening and people on the most part are enjoying it. And if they're not, they're not telling us about it. speaker-0: Alright, bye guys. speaker-1: Bye.