Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / Divorce Coach Sara Davison Builds a Business Out of a Broken Heart

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Divorce Coach Sara Davison Builds a Business Out of a Broken Heart · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

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  Speaker 2: Welcome back to Misunderstood. I'm your host, Rachel Yucatel.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: We all experience different things in life, clearly, but one
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: thing that is universal is going through a breakup.
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  Speaker 2: I know you've done it at least once.
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  Speaker 1: And I think we both can agree that sometimes breaking
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  Speaker 1: up is worse than having a broken leg. When you
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: go through a breakup and feel like you don't know
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  Speaker 1: how you're going to get through it, how to tell
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: your kids, how you're going to move on, today's guest,
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  Speaker 1: Sarah Davison, is the right person you want to talk to.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: She is the divorce coach. She's built her business out
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  Speaker 1: of her own heartbreak. She's made lemons out of lemonade.
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  Speaker 1: I had so many questions and Sarah was easy to
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  Speaker 1: talk to. I can see what makes her such a
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: great coach. We talk about how a Tony Robbins seminar
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: changed her life. what she recommends to her clients when
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: they're in a rut, and how to deal with a
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: toxic ex. She gives a lot of really good advice
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: on that one. She gave other information on navigating all
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: the post-breakup concerns that might come your way, including the
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  Speaker 1: timely issue of differing political views. Sarah also runs a
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  Speaker 1: breakup recovery retreat in the British countryside.
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  Speaker 2: That sounds absolutely amazing.
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  Speaker 1: I could have used this in my past a couple
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  Speaker 1: times when I really couldn't.
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  Speaker 2: Get out of bed after a breakup.
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  Speaker 1: She promises to supply plenty of tissues and you get
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: to share your stories and hopefully grow from them. So
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  Speaker 1: sit back, take this all in. If you've ever been
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: going through a breakup and didn't know how to move on,
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  Speaker 1: or if you're currently going through one, I think you're
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  Speaker 1: going to find a lot of solace here and get
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of help. So welcome to my next guest,
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  Speaker 1: Sarah Davison. Sarah, thank you so much for joining me
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: on Misunderstood. So my first question is, do you pronounce
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: it Sarah or is that just the American way?
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Is it Sarah? It's Sarah, actually.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: OK, so even in America, we should say Sarah.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: If you can. But you know what?
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: It's cool. No, I like that.
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  Speaker 1: It's very pretty, you know, name. So, OK, I wanted
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  Speaker 1: to talk to you about where you are now. You
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: had a very intentional path to get to where you are.
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  Speaker 1: Will you talk to us about that?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, the journey's been incredible, to be honest,
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  Speaker 3: because where I am now is that I run a
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  Speaker 3: business which helps people all over the world to cope
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  Speaker 3: better with any kind of breakup, heartbreak, separation, including divorce
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: and including toxic relationships. And it's something that's really close
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  Speaker 3: to my heart, having been through a really difficult divorce
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  Speaker 3: about 15 years ago that I didn't see coming. And
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: it kind of snuck up and hit me like a
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  Speaker 3: freight train, and completely changed my whole world overnight. So
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: to be able to take that pain from going from doing,
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: and I was a coach, I've been coaching for 15
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  Speaker 3: years at that point. And I was on top of things.
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  Speaker 3: I was running things. I had a global business with
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  Speaker 3: my ex-husband as well. We had a son who was one.
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  Speaker 3: And then overnight, I found out that not only was
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  Speaker 3: he not in love with me anymore, but he was
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  Speaker 3: madly in love with somebody else.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. And when you find that out, there's certain things
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  Speaker 3: that don't help. Like she was 12 years younger than me. Right.
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  Speaker 3: She was stunningly beautiful. That never helps either. And she
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  Speaker 3: was pregnant within a couple of weeks of me finding out.
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  Speaker 3: So my whole world overnight just completely changed. She was
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  Speaker 3: made a director of our business, which was very difficult.
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  Speaker 3: We had almost 200 staff and we were running offices
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  Speaker 3: in London and Australia. And having to go back into
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  Speaker 3: work and carry on running the business with that situation
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  Speaker 3: was really tough. I did a lot of that ugly
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: crying on the bathroom floor. And that's something that we've
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  Speaker 3: all been there.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. I know you've been through this as well.
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  Speaker 3: And it's tough when you go through those. situations especially
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  Speaker 3: if you don't see it coming yeah so overnight everything
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  Speaker 3: changed and I did spend a couple of months in
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  Speaker 3: that really dark place like really dark thinking can I
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  Speaker 3: go on is this for me who am I it's
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  Speaker 3: humiliating as.
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  Speaker 1: Well absolutely and it you know the biggest thing it
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  Speaker 1: affects is your self-esteem why me I'm not good enough
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  Speaker 1: um and so you really internalize I mean I know
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  Speaker 1: because I've been through it but I can imagine in
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  Speaker 1: the position you're you were in that somebody came in
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  Speaker 1: and basically replaced you a newer shinier version maybe because
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  Speaker 1: she was younger and all this.
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  Speaker 3: Stuff and that's it I totally got the upgrade when
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  Speaker 3: you saw her I was like oh I get it
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  Speaker 3: right okay but what do I do because I'm absolutely
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  Speaker 3: devastated I was still in love with him I still
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  Speaker 3: wanted to be with him and I think that unrequited
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  Speaker 3: love is a very hard situation to be in for
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  Speaker 3: anyone and I think you know it's one of those
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  Speaker 3: journeys that you know when you're down there you've got
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  Speaker 3: a choice and this is what I realized after a
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  Speaker 3: couple of months of all, you know, phoning my mum
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  Speaker 3: at 2am crying and, you know, not being able to
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  Speaker 3: sleep and not being able to eat. Yeah, in some ways,
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  Speaker 3: I went on the divorce diet, and I lost huge
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  Speaker 3: amounts of weight because I'd had my baby not long before.
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  Speaker 3: So I was still carrying some of that. So, you know,
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  Speaker 3: I lost that, but I wasn't eating. It wasn't healthy.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 3: But I decided I have a choice. You know, I
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  Speaker 3: was a coach and I was thinking, right, I need
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  Speaker 3: to get some help. Who do I ask? And I
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  Speaker 3: quickly realized that there was so much help for, you know,
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  Speaker 3: if you want to stop smoking or you want to
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  Speaker 3: lose weight, there's loads of groups and books and sort
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  Speaker 3: of all that sort of support you can get. But
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  Speaker 3: for heartbreak, literally nothing. Nothing specific, apart from therapy, obviously,
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  Speaker 3: but that's slightly different to what I would.
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  Speaker 1: And it's so interesting because that's the one thing that's universal, right?
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  Speaker 1: Not everyone smokes, not everyone's an addict, but everyone has
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  Speaker 1: been through heartbreak. So you found this niche that everybody
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  Speaker 1: could kind of understand. So you said you had a
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  Speaker 1: background in being a life coach before and a business coach.
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  Speaker 1: What was the stuff you had to go through? What
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  Speaker 1: was the training to actually get credentials in this kind
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  Speaker 1: of breakup coaching?
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  Speaker 3: Well, for me, I've always been really interested in personal development.
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  Speaker 3: And all the best guys, to be honest, are over
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: here in the States. Obviously, I'm from London, England. So
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  Speaker 3: from a really early age, out of university, I started
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  Speaker 3: a business to fly motivational speakers from the US over
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  Speaker 3: to the UK. And I literally fell into it by mistake.
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  Speaker 3: My dad had been over in the States on work.
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  Speaker 3: And one of his business partners has said, John, come
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  Speaker 3: along to this Tony Robbins event. So my dad was like, oh, OK.
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  Speaker 3: So he went along and when he came back to
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  Speaker 3: the UK, he said, Sarah, I just want to give
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  Speaker 3: you one last gift. You finished your education and I
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  Speaker 3: know that, but I just really want you to try this.
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  Speaker 3: So I went to, it was years ago now, and
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: I went to one of Tony's events and it was small.
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  Speaker 3: There's only like 200 people in the audience now. He
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  Speaker 3: has obviously hundreds of thousands. And it completely changed my life.
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  Speaker 3: It took the blinkers off. So I got into personal development.
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  Speaker 3: I love the fact that we can change how we
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  Speaker 3: feel ourselves and Because I didn't learn that at school.
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  Speaker 3: At school, I was told, well, you'll probably be able
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  Speaker 3: to go and be a teacher or maybe an accountant.
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  Speaker 3: And I just didn't fit into any of those boxes.
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  Speaker 3: None of it was exciting. I was like, oh, OK.
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  Speaker 3: So when I found this and it was like dream
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  Speaker 3: big and you can create your own reality. And I
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  Speaker 3: was thinking, but I'm not good at anything. I was
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  Speaker 3: pretty average at school. And, you know, what could I do?
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  Speaker 3: How could I have my own business? And then I
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  Speaker 3: started thinking about it and I thought. I love this
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  Speaker 3: self-help industry. I'm going to fly some speakers from the
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: States to the UK because we really had nothing back then.
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  Speaker 3: We had Paul McKenna, who's now a really big kid too,
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  Speaker 3: but that was about it. So one of Tony's speakers
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  Speaker 3: actually said to me, I want to do some stuff
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: in the UK. I was like, okay. So I came
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: back from a Robin seminar and said to my parents,
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to set up my own business and I'm
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  Speaker 3: going to promote these Americans. And they were like, OK,
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  Speaker 3: that's what I did. And it was incredible. That was
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  Speaker 3: a real turning point. So I trained with them all.
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  Speaker 3: So I've got my NLP master practitioner. I've done my
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  Speaker 3: hypnosis training as well. I've done a lot of different
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: training over the years and I've pretty much read loads
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: of the self-help books and all of them listen to.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: all the audio books cassettes it was back.
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  Speaker 1: Then and you've been through it I mean the difference
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  Speaker 1: I think that a lot of people can have the
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: credentials and go through the schooling and the training but
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: when you've actually been something been through something and you
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  Speaker 1: can understand what people are going through it adds a
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  Speaker 1: whole another level of credibility to it um and empathy
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: right um so you can really take it from there
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: what what do you say would make a good coach.
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  Speaker 3: Well, for me, and I have a training school now
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: because my mission is to help people all over the
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: world to cope better. So just me on my own,
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: I realized quickly that was going to be a big
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: job coaching everyone. So I started to train people to
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: become breakup and divorce coaches. Now I think we've trained
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: over 500 coaches in 24 different countries. So we're getting
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: these tools out to so many people, which is, I mean,
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: that's my passion in life. So, yeah, I mean, I think,
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: you know, the most important thing when I train my coaches,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: I'm still really involved with that. um is you've got
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: to walk your talk and I think like you said
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Rachel spot on like you've got to have been through
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: or have bringing your own personal experience you might your
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: parents might have been divorced or there's something that you've
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: been through and and the skills help you with any
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: kind of life trauma to be honest yeah I'm honing
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: it to break up and divorce but how to dial
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: down your own stress or how to doubt anger or
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: jealousy or just that overwhelming heartbreak. All those tools come
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: into this. And yeah, so to be outstanding, absolutely have
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: to walk your talk, which means that when the going
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: gets tough and you're sitting there thinking, I'm just having
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: a really bad day today. It's instead of going back
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: to your old patterns and your coping mechanisms, which might
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: be reaching for the bottle of wine or partying or
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: just hiding in bed or eating your feelings again is
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: really common. What we say is this is the time
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: to stretch and step up.
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: know about the drawer.
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: The drawer. Just the one square before bed. Or two,
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: you know. Nobody's watching. You deserve a treat.
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: With eight flavours to choose from, you can choose the
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: flavour you favour with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: Actually use the tools. So yeah, it's walking your talk,
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: even when it's hard.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, so let's get into the details of how this
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: works and how to make people feel better.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I'm curious, do men and women deal with breakup differently?
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Have you noticed?
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot, the tools work for everybody,
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: but I find, and I don't like to generalize because
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: everybody's so different. And so we don't have a sort
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: of one size fits all because everyone is so different.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: It really depends, interestingly, on what your ability to cope
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: with stress is already. So we all have friends who,
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: when the tiniest thing happened, fall apart. Like, I was
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: in the supermarket the other day, and I bumped into
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: a friend I haven't seen for ages. And she's amazing.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: But she was so stressed. I saw her having such
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: a bad day. And I was like, what's happened? And
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: she said, my daughter's getting a flight. And I didn't
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: have any bread in to make her a sandwich for
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: the trip to the airport. So I'm here trying to
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: grab it. And I'm looking at her. I'm thinking, is this?
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: Is this why you're so upset? Because literally, how do
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: you get through the day? Whereas other people can seem
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: to take on so much and deal with all sorts
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: of grief and difficulties from their past and difficult kids
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: or illness.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't affect their life.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: So that's a real indicator, actually, for how people are
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: going to cope when you start putting breakup and divorce
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: on top of that. Right.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Now, I've read that you said, and it's more than you,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: there's been studies that heartbreak can have an effect on
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: you physically and emotionally, obviously.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: But the physical characteristics of that, what are you seeing
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: in that? It can make you sick, right?
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, it actually weirdly feels like a real problem.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: physical injury.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: Like it feels like your heart is hurting.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: And I've always said a breakup is like worse than
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: having a broken leg. I mean, it is so painful
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: and so hard. You know, with a broken leg, somebody,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: a doctor will say, here's what it's going to feel like.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Here's when it's going to end. Here's when it's going
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: to mend. And a broken heart, you just go through
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: so many stages. But that, you know, that physical sickness is,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: it could really hurt people though.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: So talk about that.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, you're so right. It actually feels like
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: this physical injury, even though it's not. And that manifests
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: in so many different ways. It's not just going to
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: affect you from your sleeping. It's going to stop you
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: from concentrating. It's going to affect your ability to parent.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: It's going to affect your ability to show up and
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: even do basic tasks. So I think we've got to
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: look at the impact on your body because If you
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: don't face that, then that's what you drag forward with you.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: And I think a lot of people, what I call stuffing,
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: do the stuffing down of emotions. And stuffing your emotions
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: means that you're not facing it. You're just distracting away
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: from that. But actually, a lot of trauma is stored
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: in the body. So, you know, often there's this sort
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: of tsunami of stress hormones that hits you as well.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: And I think that's something where when you're used to
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: the oxytocin and the dopamine of it all being amazing
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: and being in love. especially if you didn't realize this
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: was coming yeah and then the next thing you're hit
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: by all these stress hormones that's what makes you feel
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: sort of anxious and sluggish and pretty lousy to be
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: honest so I think navigating your way through that a
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: lot of people just curl up and say that's it
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: whereas what we need to do is actually face that
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: and do some work and actually you You can't think
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: your way out of overthinking. And a lot of people
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: try and do that. What we need to do is
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: move our bodies. We need to change our physiology and
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: get outside, connect with nature, start doing things that change
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: that environment. Because as we start to move, that starts
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: to shift how we're looking at the world. And if
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: you can do that, and it doesn't need to be
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: going to the gym if you're not a gym bunny,
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: but it does need to be something that just gets
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: you outside.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Let's face it, the holidays can be a great time.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: You get to see family, friends, go to parties. But
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: it can also be really busy where you feel stressed
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: and tired. You're running around and you don't feel your best.
• 15:02
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• 15:05
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• 15:11
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  Speaker 1: Go to drinkag1. com slash misunderstood. That's drinkag1. com slash misunderstood and
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: check it out. Well, and to what you're saying, to
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: your point, So many people get stuck. I know for me,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: I've been stuck. Like, you know, you're in a bad
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: relationship and we don't even need to just talk about divorce.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: It's just breakups in general, right? But people don't know
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: when the end is the end. And so many people
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: are stuck. It could be for weeks or years. And
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: is it the right time to leave this person? And
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: then there's so many makeups and breakups and, you know,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: back and forth. And that takes a toll too. I mean,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: I've been in that position where I don't feel like
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: I can parent. I can't focus on anything in front
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: of me. It's consuming me in my head. And so
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: that brings me to my next question about, you know,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: when do we know that it's time? I mean, obviously
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: there are relationships, especially marriages, that you want to try
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: and make it work for the sake of the kids
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: or whatever. But there are also, you know, I meet
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: plenty of people that are like, oh, I stayed married
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: for the sake of the kids. I am a product
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: of two parents that are divorced. If my parents stayed married,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: that would have been the biggest disaster in my life.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: But I know a lot of adults think they should
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: stay for the kids. What's your thought on that?
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think that if you're staying for
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: the kids, you've got to be very aware of what
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: you're teaching them, of what marriage and love is. Right.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: Because we are their role models, whether we like it
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: or not, whether we're trying to hide it or put
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: on a great smiley face.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: And they see everything.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. And they hear everything. Even when you're whispering to
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: your friend with the bathroom door shut, they're still going
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: to pick up on that. Even when their baby's energetically,
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: they pick up on how you're feeling.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: So I think it's... I know it comes from a
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: good place saying we want to stay together for the kids.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: But in my experience, kids growing up in that unhealthy
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: dynamic where they're learning that marriage means potentially, you know,
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: not sleeping in the same room or not being kind
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: to each other. Or it's OK to just speak in
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: an unfiltered way and express all the negatives about your partner,
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: put them down, be unkind. Right.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Or the cheating that goes along with it.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, the betrayal and just, oh, no, everything's fine. Because
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: we're teaching our kids then, if you're saying, well, I
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: know they cheated, but I'm staying anyway, that that's okay
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: to tolerate that bad behavior. So there are boundaries about...
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: what is acceptable behavior?
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: And what love is.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: And what love is, is completely skewed from maybe the
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: ideal healthy way of looking at that kind of relationship.
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: There are a lot of people, tends to be women,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: but I don't think it's always women, that stay for
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: financial reasons. They feel like they've been in this relationship,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: they've been taken care of, they maybe are raising the kids,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: or maybe they're just in a financial situation where it's comfortable,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: but the relationship is abusive or not comfortable. They're just
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: but they stay because they don't have any options. They
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: think they haven't been in the workforce for many years.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: How are they going to get a job? You know,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: how are they going to be their own person without
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: the other one, right? What would your suggestion be for
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: people that are stuck in those situations?
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: I see this all the time, Rachel. And it's really
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: sad because sometimes it's very difficult to leave because of
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: financial reasons or your life is going to change so
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: much if you do that, you know, you've got to
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: weigh up the pros and cons. And I work with
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: clients to not, jump into it just because of the
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: emotional in that moment i'm leaving that's it i always
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: say let's get a plan let's get your ducks in
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: a in a row and let's work out financially what
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: do you need and let's look at the future because
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: just jumping i mean there's going to be situations like
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: in some abusive relationships where maybe it's not safe to
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: stay and that's a I'm not talking about those because
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: in that case you need to get the right help
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: from your you know your community support services for domestic
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: abuse but if it's a relationship where you're just yeah
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: unhappy and it's not for you don't rush into making
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: those decisions because it can be a planning process And
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: you don't have to, you know, when you've got a plan,
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: you start to feel a bit more in control. When
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: you start to have that confidence and more certainty about
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: your future, it becomes more tolerable to stay whilst you're
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: doing that. It's not necessarily something that you would share
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: with your partner, though. I mean, it's something that is
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: for you to start thinking about. Let's look at what
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: the future looks like. We'd never leave our house in
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: the morning without knowing where we were going, right? Because
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: you wouldn't know whether you got there or not. So
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: we don't want to jump out of a marriage without
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: knowing what that looks like. So most people will say
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: to me, it either looks like a black hole or
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: a blank canvas. And what we have to do, and
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: that's what I do as a coach and my coaches do,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: is to either shine a light into that black hole
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: or put some color on the canvas. So it gives
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: you a focus of where you've yet to go and
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: what that looks like.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: I love the holiday season, buying presents, lots of events, celebrations,
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  Speaker 5: Enjoy.
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  Speaker 2: And to possibly.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Remind them of things that they like that they may
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: have lost along the way. I mean, I know from
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: friends that have gone through this and from me, when
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: you're in a relationship, sometimes you forget yourself. You forget
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: what you like. You forget what you can do alone
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: and what makes you happy. And I think that's a
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: really good piece of advice to say to people, okay,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: you have to find things that you're okay with doing
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: alone or who cares if no one else likes it.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: This is you and this is what's going to make
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: you happy without that other person.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: And that is exactly what this work is all about.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: It's about rediscovering your identity, who you are, what makes
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: you tick, what you love, what you're passionate about, what
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: lights you up. Now, it may not be the things
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: that you used to do, because when I came out
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: of my divorce, I was like, you know what? I
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: used to love rollerblading. And in London, we have a
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: park called Hyde Park, and there's loads of those really
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: cool rollerbladers that kind of whiz around. I thought, well,
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: I was never that good. I had, like, roller skates.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: So I thought, I'm going to get a pair of rollerblades.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go back. So I did that, and
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: I got my little rucksack with my rollerblades. And I
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: was like, off I went. And I had lessons. But
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: I got fired from the lessons on lesson four because
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: I was so scared of breaking my wrist or something
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: because I had a baby at home. And I was like,
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: how am I going to look after him? And so
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: sometimes the things you think when you go back, I
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: used to love that. Maybe they're not going to fit
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: into your lifestyle that many years later. Right. Of course.
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: He fired me and we're still friends, but it was
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: a little bit embarrassing.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: That's hysterical.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: What would be your thoughts on separating from a difficult partner? Because,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, we've heard some celebrities like Gwyneth Paltrow talk about,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: you know, how they're making intentional separations.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I forget the word that they use.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: Conscious uncoupling.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Which seems like something that. It's a fantasy.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you're getting a divorce, you probably don't
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: like the other person. But we can get into that
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: if you want, if you think that's a real thing.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: But on the other side of that question, then, is
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: how do you deal with difficult partners? Because for the
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: most part, you're dealing with someone difficult if you're separating. Yeah, yeah.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: And I think you speak like someone who's been there.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: So I get it.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, conscious uncoupling, if you can do it, great.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: I think behind the scenes of that, though, there's often
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: a lot more pain than people see. And it's, you know,
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: one person in my experience is always a bit further
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: down the line than the other person. So, you know,
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: if you are able to go on holiday with your ex, great.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: And absolutely, it's great for the kids and wonderful. But yeah,
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: I termed the phrase aggressively severing. which is kind of
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: the other end, which is definitely what I did. And
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: so that's really tough. You know, when you're going through
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: that divorcing or separating from someone that's toxic, well, first
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: of all, the first thing is it's not your fault.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: If you are in a toxic or abusive relationship, it's
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: not your fault. Most of my clients think it is
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: when they leave. That's the first bit. They're broken because
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: the toxic relationship is designed to undermine you, your confidence,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: your self-esteem. And what we want to do is to
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: sort of nurture that and give them the hope to
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: rebuild that and show them how. I think when you're
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: leaving a toxic relationship, safety has to come into that.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: And I think having a good support team around you
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: of people that really understand what that is. The coercive control,
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: emotional abuse is very difficult to understand unless you've been
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: in a relationship with that.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: It's quite hard to spot.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: And for people that haven't experienced, they might say, well,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: they were just having a bad day. You know, maybe
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: you're exaggerating a bit. But also, you know, the triggers
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: that might set off anxiety for you are going to
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: be there for a while. So we need to look
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: at those and help you to navigate those. I would
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: say you've got to be careful about the team you
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: build around you so that the people really do understand
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: that as a toxic relationship. And again, planning before you leave,
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: making sure you and the kids are going to be
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: safe is key. But then once you're out of that,
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: the interesting thing is physically you're living in a different place.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: Great.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: And people say, oh, well, it'll get better.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: No.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: If you're divorcing a toxic partner, post-separation abuse is something
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: that's really misunderstood. And it quite often accelerates after you
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: leave the partner. because they're losing control over you, which
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: is what they need to exist. And that's their oxygen.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: So as you pull away, they're trying to find ways
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: to hook you back in or hoover you back in
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: is the term.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: So what we want to maybe sorry, just to clarify,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: that's not always to keep you in the relationship.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: It's just to have control over you.
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Well done for clarifying that.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: It's it's to have that control. It's really hard to
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: let go unless they've got somebody else, in which case
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: they may still be happier for you to go which
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: is quite often the case because they don't like to
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: be on their own. But if you get out and
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: you're trying to move on, they're not going to want
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: you to be happy. So divorcing a healthy partner is
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: about coming to some kind of fair compromise at the
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: end of the day. Divorcing a toxic partner is about
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: them trying to cause maximum suffering and pain. And it's
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: pretty much about annihilation. So that control from being a
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: general everyday thing, because you're not there so much, will
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: be targeted on kids and finances because they know that's
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: where it's going to hit you the hardest and cause
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: most pain so again working with people that really understand
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: that and the effects of the distraction techniques when you're
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: trying to go through the legal process or the emotional
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: control just from a look can trigger clients so again
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: we've really got to understand you know my tools for
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: this I created because I needed them and when I
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: went through it I was like okay I really need
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: to find a way that I can manage this and
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: dial down these emotions. I know I can control how
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: I feel. We can all control how we react. I'm
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: not saying it's easy, but there are things you can
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: do to take your control back and dial down those
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: negative emotions. But the thing with toxic partners is if
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: you understand the game they're playing, and a lot of
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: people don't like that term game, but whether we like
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: it or not, we are playing a game. They're playing
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: it and we're in it. So unless you learn the
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: rules and master them and you're two steps ahead, you're
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: going to be moved around that board like a pawn.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: So we want you to understand that And then you're.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Just going to constantly be on the defense because you
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: just react to everything.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: So we want you to learn the rules and then
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: be two steps ahead because then you can see what
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: they're doing. And this is really powerful because not living
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: with them, you're not physically living in the same place.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: But emotionally, what I find is most of my clients
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: are still renting a lot of space to their ex.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: So you're not emotionally dissociated at all. So it's almost
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: like they're still in that relationship. So the way to
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: dial that down is by understanding the game and then
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: looking at what they're doing tactically. So when something comes
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: in like a nasty email or they let you down
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: with pickup times for the kids or they're messing you around,
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: you take what I've designed as a gameplay checklist, which
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: is a list of all their behaviors. So we can
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: look and say, OK, instead of me diving into the
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: rabbit hole of the process of why are they doing this?
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: This is awful.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: I've told them not to do that or this is unkind.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: You go, right. What is the tactic?
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: It's confusion.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: It's being unkind. It's lying. And you just tick the
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: boxes so you don't get emotionally into that scenario. Right.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: It's interesting that you say this because I can see
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: this spinning in my head for what I've gone through.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: I've been divorced for 10 years.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But it's still the process of when I get
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: an email or a text I know now if they've
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: had if he's had a bad day because I can
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: tell that he's you know, usually I'll get this firing
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: of all sorts of things. And I'll be like, did
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: someone throw you down the stairs today? Like, what are
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: you trying to take out on me?
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Like, it's crazy. But now I've started to see it.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: But it's interesting.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Ten years later, you know, there have been times when
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: I find that it affects my whole day, the interaction,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: because it throws me off. And I'm like, how could
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: someone someone be so mean?
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: How could they?
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Be such a horrible co-parent? How could they blame me
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: for things? How could they be so in my business
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: when I haven't been with this person for 10 years?
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: And it can really affect you. Even if you think
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: that you're above it, it could still create a ripple
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: in all your everyday activities unless you are, like you're saying,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: one step ahead or you know the game they're playing
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: so you don't react. I'm very reactionary. I fire that
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: text off within two seconds when it comes. and thinking
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: that I'm winning, but then it just goes back and forth.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: RACHEL STERLING- Oh, there's always another level for them.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: RACHEL STERLING- Oh, yeah.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: That's crazy.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: RACHEL STERLING- Yeah.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: But that's totally normal, Rachel.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Just be reassured.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: That is the normal reaction to this. But when you're saying, well,
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: the thought patterns you go into with those things, they're
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: the rabbit holes I'm talking about. So by just going, OK,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: what do they want? Because it's a game. So it's like,
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: what do they want? Where do they want me to
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: go here? What's the reaction they want from me to
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: feed the next nasty message? So it's like, okay, how
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: do I just pour cold water on this? Right. Which
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: is you taking your power back. And it's something that's really, well,
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: seems really difficult to do with someone that's all controlling. Right.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: But you can take your power back by understanding the
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: rules of the game. Right. And then going, ah, I
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: see what you're doing. You're not as clever as you
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: think because I know what's coming. Your textbook.
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: know about the drawer. The drawer.
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: Just the one square before bed. Or two, you know.
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: Nobody's watching.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: You deserve a treat.
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: With eight flavours to choose from, you can choose the
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: flavour you favour with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: They're all textbook. They all follow the same patterns. So
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: it's like, OK, and then by you not going into
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: those rabbit holes... you are winning. And that's how you
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: take your control back and move on from that.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: RACHEL ALTERSSON- Well, I'm curious how you think somebody should
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: respond to something like that. Some of my friends are like,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: just ignore him. Some of my friends are like, oh,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: kill him with kindness. Now, I'm not in a stage
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: for either one of those. I like to be confrontational anyway.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: So I'm quick to respond. I'm not somebody who would
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: just ghost somebody. I just can't do it, physically cannot
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: do it.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: I have a lot to say. And I want to
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: get it off my chest.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: But killing them with kindness when for 10 years it's
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: been someone who has not treated me well, there's no
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: shot I have it in me either to be like, oh, okay,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: you're having a bad day. Or whatever it is. I
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: just can't do that either. So what would your suggestion
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: be for someone? like me, who I think is a
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: lot of people I know, that just don't know how
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: to react the right way.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: What would you do?
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, I totally get you, because that is exactly
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: my reaction. And being disingenuous with someone that's doing things
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: that are just not forgivable, they're just not OK, is
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: really difficult. However, you've got to decide what you want
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: from this. Because if you engage with them, you're giving
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: energy to that situation. which will only come back and
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: create more negativity and drain your energy and take that
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: away from all the great things that you have going
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: on in your life right now. So it's like you've
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: got to make the decision of being disingenuous to just
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: shut it down. So all that energy and what you've
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: got to say can go into something positive that's actually
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: going to make a difference and maybe have a more
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: positive result. Because the one thing you can bank on,
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: if their lips are moving, their fingers are typing, they
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: want something from you. And if it's a reaction just
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: to make sure that you're emotionally engaged with them still
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: and they can still pull your strings, do you want
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: to give your power to them and confirm to them, oh, yeah,
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: still got her on the end of a string. I
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: know what to do. So it's like, you know what?
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: I'm going to play the game. And I know how
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: hard that is, believe you me. But it's actually really
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: rewarding when you can do it, especially when it goes
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: against your natural thing. But it's so hard. And I
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: really don't like the fact that we have to be disingenuous,
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I think it's just relearning patterns probably.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: So instead of doing those things, it's to relearn how
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: to engage with somebody who's a narcissist or toxic or just,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: you know, with somebody who you wouldn't be friends with
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: unless you shared kids with them.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: Absolutely not.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: How much do you know about the family court system
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: in America? I mean, that to me, because I've been
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: through it on and off for a long time. I
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: don't find it to be a very fair system. I
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: don't think it, you know, puts kids first. I think it's,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: you know, very difficult. So I want to know your
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: opinion on it, but also I want to know from
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: you if you think it's better to try and work
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: out things in a mediation or if you think it's
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: really important to go to court and fight it out.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really good question. Because I'm a survivor
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: of a toxic abusive relationship, I campaign a lot, having
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: been dragged through the UK British family courts. I've interviewed
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: for my podcast a lot of people that talk about
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: these kind of things because It's something that's very close
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: to my heart. And like you, it makes me really
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: angry that the system isn't as it should be. You know,
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: I'm not a legal expert. I don't give legal advice.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: But what I do know is that as someone that's
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: been dragged through the courts many, many times, it is
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: a weapon used for, you know, empathetic people or maybe
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: victims of abuse who are coming out of toxic relationships.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: And because there's so many conflicts of interest and there's
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: not enough training or even any in some cases, all
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: over the States is the same. Australia has the same.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: The UK has the same. And in a lot of
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: these countries, we're facing a huge scandal of children being
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: handed over to toxic exes because there's not enough education
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: of what's going on. So I think that's something that
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: definitely needs to change.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Well, by the way, are not concerned about the well-being
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: of the child. They just want to hurt their former spouse.
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: And there's so much research that's been done in the
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: UK about, you know, if a victim of abuse is
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: alleged abuse in a divorce case, then this argument of
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: alienating behaviors will be turned against them, which is when,
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: you know, if the child doesn't want to see the
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: other parent, then obviously that is a big issue and
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: it needs to be, because, you know, it is healthier
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: for children to have both parents in their lives. Absolutely.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: I'm absolutely for that if it's safe to do so.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: But the checks on is it safe to do so
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: are obviously a little bit difficult to ascertain sometimes. So,
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: This is an issue that's going on. We need more support.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: We need experts in domestic abuse in those cases so
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: they can carefully protect both sides if needed.
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Speaking about kids, what do you think is the best
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: way for couples to discuss breaking up with their kids?
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: Well, if it's a healthy relationship, together if you can,
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: and agree it in advance. Definitely sit down and say, OK,
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: before we sit there and talk to the kids, let's
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: talk about what is going to happen. Definitely don't overpromise.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: Nothing's going to change. Things are going to change. But
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: depending on the age of the kids, younger kids especially
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: will take their lead from you. So if you're going
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: into it saying, look, yes, there's going to be some change.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: But look, you're going to have two bedrooms. You get
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: two Christmases. I used to say to my son that
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: Father Christmas comes twice if you're divorced. So you get
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: two lots of presents, which was great until we were
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: in the school playground. And I was sitting talking to
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: one of the dads and his son came out and goes.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Why don't I get two Christmases?
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: Sorry, Santa. And he was like, what? Because they recently
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: divorced and he was only getting one Christmas. He said,
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: Santa comes twice and you haven't booked it in with him, Daddy.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's funny.
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh, sorry about that. But yeah, I
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: think kids will take their lead and there's so many
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: positives from it. And also there's research that shows that
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: kids who have been through some kind of difficulty in
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: their childhood, I'm not talking extreme abuse or real poverty,
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: but have been through some adversity and they have a
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: role model to show them how to cope with that,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: actually get through life and make better decisions because they've
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: understood that sometimes life doesn't work out the way that
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: we want it to. And if parents can step up
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: as role models, even if it's just one, you don't
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: need both for this. If you've got one stable parent
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: showing the child that actually, yeah, it is tough and
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: not hiding those emotions, because if you do, you're teaching
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: them to hide their emotions. So we're saying, look, yeah, mom, dad,
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: we're upset. But look what I'm doing to cheer myself up.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: And that's one of the things that I'm big on
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: my coaches passing on to the kids of anyone that
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: we coach is that there are coping mechanisms. And now
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: if you look at the rising rate in the US
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: and the UK, all over the world of teenage suicide,
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: it's because their coping mechanisms tend to come back to,
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: you know, self harm, suicide, even drugs, or bullying online,
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: all those kind of things, rather than how to cheer
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: yourself up, you know, internally, like, you know, putting a
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: smile on your face. Interesting story. My son was in
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: the playground and he had a friend, Charlie, they were
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: playing tag and Charlie fell over and he grazed his
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: knee and he started crying. And my son was like,
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: come on, Charlie, let's carry on playing. Just do the
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: thing that cheers you up. And we're driving back from
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: school that day. And he said, mommy, I said it
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: to him. And he looked at me and he said, well,
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: I don't know what that is. He said, so I said, well,
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: stand up, put your shoulders back, put a big smile
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: on your face. And if that doesn't work, five star jumps, go.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: And he did it.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: And he looked at.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: Me and he said, that really works. Wow. And my
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: son looked at me, he goes, mommy, he didn't even
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: know how to do that. And I was like, why
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: aren't we teaching this stuff to kids? Because if they
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: had more healthy habits, coping mechanisms. Like, you know, if
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: you're feeling down, get outside, you know, go and connect
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: with nature or move your body or change the questions
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: in your head to be more empowering. Those things at
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: school that kids absorb these things like sponges, right? And
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: then when they get older, they can deal with those
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: tough times so much better. Right.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: And I love what you're saying. Your son is adorable.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: But what's interesting, too, is I think so many people,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: so many women that I know will go home have
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: their new home with their child and just be depressed.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: And that, you know, I think it's really hard for kids.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: You know, I think people really have to remember how
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: much kids internalize stuff and that when at least you
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: can act that like this was a good thing, this
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: is going to be good eventually. It's really helpful for
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: kids to get into that place. to know what you're
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: talking about, that things will get better, that you can
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: find a happy place out of it. But every time
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: you act depressed or angry and speak negatively about your ex,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: I think that really takes the toll. And then later on,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: you see that child starting to use those same words.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: And that's really devastating for the kid, but.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Also for yourself.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: To hear those words that your ex called you coming
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: from your child is really toxic and can create all
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: sorts of problems. I'm curious about in this day and age,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: it's not only about your relationship that kids can see,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: but how would you deal with separating parents who are
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: dealing with opposing political views? For example, you know, I
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: have a friend, let's say, who has an ex-husband who
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: is very pro-Trump. you know, didn't believe COVID existed, thought
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: masks made everybody sick, thinks that Joe Biden should be
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: in jail, you know, and then, you know, the mother
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: is just more liberal and just believes, you know, that,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: you know, things that seem very normal, but, you know,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: and not even putting any of that on the child.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: But every time the child would come home from the
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: ex-spouse's house, it would be, oh, mom, I'm not wearing
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: a mask like during COVID or, oh, mom, you know,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden's a criminal, or are you a Republican or
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: a Democrat? You know, and this is not what a
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: six- or seven-year-old should be saying. What would you say
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: to people?
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: know about the drawer. The drawer.
• 42:09
  Speaker 5: Just the one square before bed. Or two, you know.
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: Nobody's watching. You deserve a treat.
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: With eight flavors to choose from, you can choose the
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: flavor you favor with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Parents who are not only just having problems personally with
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: each other, but are facing different political views.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's a really good point because unfortunately we
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: can't control what anyone else does, what they say or
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: their actions. So trying to change that, just don't waste
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: your time with that. Right. So we've got to refocus
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: on what can we control. And that's always the question. Well,
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: if this feels like I'm out of control, let's ask ourselves,
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: what can I control with this? Well, you can control
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: what happens in your house and the values and your boundaries,
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: your morals that you create in your own home. And children,
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: especially at that young age, will learn by, you know,
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: when I'm at one parents, it's like this. When I'm
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: at the other parents, it's like this. And they'll see the,
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: you know, they'll learn from what they see and experience. Unfortunately,
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: it's very difficult to combat it by going into it.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: So you have to kind of go around the houses.
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: So if it's a difficult view, different views or different behaviors,
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: it's like in our house. This is how it works.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: So there's no shouting. There's no bullying. There's no being unkind.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Bedtime is at this time.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah. And learning that you can't do that, but
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: hopefully with your strong influence on them, just how you
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: do things and the people you bring into your home
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: and the people you surround with. they'll see as they
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: grow up. They always find who the rock is, who
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: the stable parent is. They'll always gravitate to that, I think.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: And we can worry a lot about those things. But unfortunately,
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: that's something that we can't control what's going on on
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: the other side.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: OK, I want to get like three tangible tips for
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: people that are trying to get from heartbreak to happiness.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: What would you suggest they can do?
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, good question. So First one would be, I think
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: you touched on this earlier as well about feeling stuck.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: And if you are feeling stuck, there's a couple of
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: reasons why. Number one, it might be that you're telling
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: your story over and over again. There's a lot of us,
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: if we're honest, that did that or are doing that.
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: And it's not just to our friends. It might be
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: the hairdresser or the nail technician.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: RACHEL ALTERSSON- And no one wants to hear that, by
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: the way. I know it's consuming a lot of us,
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: but no one else cares.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: RACHEL ALTERSSON- No one else really does. So that is
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: one thing. We need to stop telling that story. Still
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: have one or two people that are constructive that are
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: helping you and not feeding that for you. But then
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: let's change that narrative to what you're going to do
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: differently and what exciting things are coming up in your life,
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: because that shifts your focus. And it still enables your
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: friends and your support team who want to be there
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: and listen, maybe feel they're not being a good friend
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: if they don't ask you. it gives them a different
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: topic to focus on and helping you move forward is
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: going to be more key. If you haven't got closure,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: this is one of the things I see all the time.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: People want to go back to their ex to get
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: the closure. And they're saying, until I know why I
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: can't move on.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, good point.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: Well, the interesting thing here is the person that hurt
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: you can never be the person to heal you. That
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: person is you and you alone. So we have to
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: start looking for how we get our closure and the
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: closure is their lack of accountability, their lack of kindness,
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: their lack of respect, their lack of empathy, their lack
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: of ability to keep your heart safe is your closure.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: So if you have any of those negative things that
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: have happened with them, that is the reason to say
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: that is not acceptable behavior in my world. I won't
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: tolerate that. I am worth more. And then focusing your
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: energy on not getting the closure, but how you build
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: your self-worth So you know that you deserve more. So
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: that would be something I would definitely suggest.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: And again, like I said, you can't think your way
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: out of overthinking. And if you are in that stage,
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: that also keeps you stuck. So getting outdoors, moving, coming
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: up with something that's going to take you out of
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: your comfort zone. Maybe not the rollerblading thing, but do
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: something a bit different that's going to push you outside
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: of your comfort zone. Meet new people. Don't be afraid
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: to do that. So moving, taking deep breaths, getting outside.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: Self-care is something that so many people are thinking is
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: a bad thing. A lot of people think self-care is selfish.
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: But it's not. It's what we need. It's like putting
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: your oxygen mask on on the airplane before you put
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: your kids on. When you first do that, people are like, oh, no,
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: I'm going to look after my child first. Then you realize, well,
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: if you can't be there, then no one's helping your child.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: So all about looking after you, taking time out, being kind,
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: running that bath, taking those minutes out, not just rushing
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: for everything. So investing in you to rebuild your strength
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: and your health and your mental well-being will then enable
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: you to make some of those bigger decisions and make
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: better decisions in the long run.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: Right. A lot of what you're saying answers this.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: But what about these people that cannot let go, that
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: are having a really hard time letting go of their ex?
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, they could take baths. They can go to
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: the gym. They can try and go out with other people.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: But their ex is on their mind. I've been in
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: that position. It's really hard to let go sometimes because you...
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: you know, you remember only the good, you know, and
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: you forget why you're in the position to be in
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: the breakup. I mean, for me, my answer would be time.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's time. And then realizing, well, wait a minute,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: that sort of wasn't as great as I thought. Or,
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I have the whole weekend free now,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: but like I can find other things. It's, So for me,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: it was time and understanding that there are other things
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: out there. And then later on, I'll look back and say,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: I don't even know how I was in love with
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: that person. I mean, that's ridiculous, you know. So you
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: need the time to get away from it. But is
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: there a more clinical answer to that?
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think you can definitely fast track that.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: And time is a good healer always. And I think
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: you can look back and see those things easily. But
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: there are things you can do to fast track that.
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: And that's what a lot of my work is, is
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: doing that personal development journey. If you come out of
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: a relationship and you're still focusing on your ex and
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: you're trying to move forward, it means you need to
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: go in inside and start thinking about you. Because if
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: your focus is on your ex, it's like driving your car.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: If you're focusing on the rearview mirror, you're not going
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: to go anywhere or you're going to crash. What we
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: want to do is take that focus off your ex
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: and shift it onto you. And that might be having
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: both hands on your head and like wrenching it around
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: and continuously doing that. But when I work with people,
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: we set up reminders and pattern interrupts around their home
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: Like on your mobile phone, what's your ringtone? Like mine
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: is happy by Pharrell because when it goes off, that
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: just reminds me, okay, what am I happy about? Writing
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: a list of all the things that didn't work in
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: your relationship is really important to take those rose-tinted glasses off,
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: like you said.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Really important, yeah.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because we're kind of programmed exactly as you said
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: to think about all the good things, the things we're
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: missing out on. But there's reasons why that relationship didn't work.
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: So we've really got to face the reality rather than
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: the fairy tale that we create in our head. especially
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: with toxic relationships, you fall in love with someone that
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: never really existed. It's a perception of someone to hook
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: you in, but then the behavior never really matches up
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: to that for long. It kind of might do for
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: a bit to hook you back in. So again, understanding
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: that the person maybe you fell in love with never
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: really existed is quite tough, but that actually helps you
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: unhook from those feelings.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: Right and don't you think it's true that most people
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: date in patterns i mean they will continually date the
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: same type of person but just in a different body
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: so how would you suggest for people who are already
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: having a hard time because they're breaking up right um
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: how do they break these patterns and date the right person?
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: Such a good question. I wish all my clients would
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: ask me this. It's like we have to learn the
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: lessons and bank them because life has a really funny
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: way of teaching us the same lessons over and over
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: and over again until we go, OK, I get it.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: I get it. I've banked it. So it's about looking back.
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: And that's some of the work that we do is
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: like looking back and saying, OK, it's not just what
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: you want from a partner, because most of us pretty
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: much know tall dark handsome blonde blue eyes we know
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: what we're attracted to physically and so the easy what
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: we want from someone but what do you need yeah
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: what you need is so important to work out is
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: it someone that's emotionally intelligent that can really get you
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: or someone that's got your back you know what is
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: it for you that you've learned that you didn't have
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: in the last relationship and then building up your ideal
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: partner picture even if you don't want to go straight
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: into dating it just filters out a lot of the
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: things you don't want and I always say Create your
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: safety nets with dating. So have a list of up
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: to five must not haves. So these are deal breakers,
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: especially if like you and me have been in a
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: toxic relationship.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Like red flags or just things you don't want anymore
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: because you've been through it.
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: Depending on what your history is. But if it's toxic,
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: definitely the red flags to be careful. So maybe lies
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: or being unkind or being rude. Anything like that where
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: if it came up in the moment, you might go.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: I can change him. I think when he gets to
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: know me, it's going to be totally different, right? He
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: doesn't know me, but that was with them. It wasn't
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: with me. So with me, I think it will be different.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: So this is where we get people to really look
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: at five must-not-haves and commit to the fact that if
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: those show up, their parachute is deployed and they're exiting
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: the relationship without the, oh, maybe next time.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: Or maybe he was having a bad time. Well, they're
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: putting their worth first, right? Absolutely.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: That they're finally saying, you know, these are the things
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: I said I wasn't going to go back to, and
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't. And also things that might not be red flags,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: but things that are really important to you. Like, I
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: know I want to date someone who has kids because
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: they've been through it.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: They get it.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: I like doing family stuff together. That's important to me. So,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: you know, I should know that that is a must-have.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: It's not a red flag by any means that they
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: don't have kids or they've never been married, but I prefer...
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: men that have done that before because it shows that
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: they like commitment.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: They've tried it.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: They know what it's about and it might not have
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: been with the right person, but they can figure it
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: out again.
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: So there are things like that, that to me, and
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: also how you feel around somebody. Cause I think so
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: many people are putting too much of an effort on like,
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: do I look good? Are they attracted to me? How
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: do they see me? How important am I to them?
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: As opposed to, well, you know, how do they make
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: me feel? Do I feel good about myself? Am I
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: constantly fidgeting because I don't feel pretty enough for them
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: or do I feel dumb? I mean, I think it's
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: so important to put your worth ahead of everything.
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: That is a.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: Really great comment because so many people are waiting to
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: be picked. And what we need to learn is to
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: be the person that makes that decision. It's like, well,
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: I choose you. I choose you. Now, if you don't
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: choose me, maybe it's the little package of love that
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: I come in or the way it's packaged up is
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: a great gift, but it's not for you. It's the
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: wrong door right now. I'm going to come back and
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: I'm going to try it with somebody else. It's not
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: a reflection of your self-worth if someone doesn't want to
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: be in that relationship with you. And I think a
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: lot of people take it super personally and say, well,
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: there's something wrong with me because they don't want to
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: be with me. But actually, sometimes people's people's wounds are
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: greater than their ability to love. And there's so many
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: different types of attachment that where people are scared of intimacy,
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: scared of commitment. You have the secure attachment, which if
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: you like someone, you're going to go for it. You're
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: going to get stuck into that relationship and give it
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: your best. even though you know maybe it won't work,
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: but you're going to give it your best. You've got
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: the anxious attachment style who need a lot of reassurance. Like,
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: do you like me? Am I okay? Are we on
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: the right path? Is this good? They're the ones that
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: are probably going to do the stalking on the social
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: media and see where you are. And then you've got
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: the avoidance. And usually due to childhood traumas, they are
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: scared of intimacy. They are scared of that commitment. So again,
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: look at the type of person you're attracting and say,
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: is this what I want? Because if you're in a
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: relationship with someone who can never fully commit And it's
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: not emotionally available. Maybe that's not the right person for
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: you to be with. If it makes you anxious to
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: be with them because you don't know if it's hot
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: and cold, then that's something that maybe you need to
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: be aware of. So really getting that clarity on what
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: you want from the partner and not being afraid to
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: assert your boundaries. Asserting your boundaries can be tough, can
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: be difficult. but it feels so good when you actually
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: do it.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: People don't do it because they're scared of being alone, right?
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, you want to
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: be with the right person. And to go back to
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: what we were talking about before, being in a position
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: of being the one that's saying, who am I going
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: to pick? As opposed to, oh my God, who's going
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: to pick me? Am I ever going to be picked?
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: You can only be in that position through experience. You
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: can only really sit in that moment when you're like, okay,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: I've been through it.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: I know what I don't like. I know how hard
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: it is to go through heartbreak. I know what it's
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: like to lose myself.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: So I think a lot of people get in a
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: bad position where they're like, well, I'm dating somebody new
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: and that one didn't work. And I keep repeating, you know,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: and trying new things. But that's what dating is like.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: You're not supposed to find the love of your life,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: the first person you date. So I think it's also
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: OK to know that you can date people and try
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: and always end those in an amicable way. But like
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: try people on for size and see what works. But
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: like you should realize it's OK to have been through
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: it because it's the only way that you're going to
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: be able to assert those boundaries and really mean them.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: Because you know the experience.
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: That goes with it. So many people date the same type.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: And if it's not working for you, we've got to
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: wake up and go, this isn't working for me. I
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: need to try something different. And try that and then
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: see where that goes. I think it's a really good
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: point that we need to expand our comfort zone. And
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: just if what you're doing isn't working, try something different.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: I want to hear all about your retreat, because I'm
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: kind of obsessed with the idea that you can go
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: on a retreat. Do you get all sorts of people
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: that are just broken? They're sobbing. They're like, I don't
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: know what to do with myself. And they come to
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: you and it's like three days of like getting them
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: to run down the street being like, like, tell me
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: all about it.
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: It's a two day retreat. So I usually do it
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: over a weekend. And I have this beautiful country manor
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: house in the UK in British countryside, which is absolutely
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: exciting because the energy of the environment really helps. The
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: staff are super friendly. And the first day they come
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: in and it's all me. So I do all the
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: training on these days and they walk in and they
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: can see there's tissues on the table and thinking, oh
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: my goodness. And we get all different types of people.
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: So this, you know, what the tools that we teach
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: for heartbreaker for every human on the planet, it doesn't
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: matter how old you are, what gender or your preferences,
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: background doesn't matter. So we get, you know, I had
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: a pop star from LA who was in her early twenties.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: I had a, a guy in his 70s, his wife
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: has left him when he'd retired and then everything in between,
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: you know? So, and when you, I mean, I've run
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: so many of these now, you always get these sort
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: of people sitting around the table on the first day,
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: very quiet, very closed down. There's always one that's like,
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: I want to tell my story more than others, you know,
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: because different people have different ways of coping with things.
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: A lot of exes don't like the fact they're there.
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: Sometimes you might get calls from the exes while they're there.
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: But what we do is day one is, and I
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: put the tissues out there because I want them to
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: know this is, this is, we've got to get some
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: of that negative stuff out before I can create space
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: for me to give you all the good stuff.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: So the day one in the morning, there's a bit
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: of crying. There's a bit of facing some of those
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: negative situations and a lot of letting go of some
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: of those things. And I have different tools I use
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: to sort of get it from your head onto paper
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: and we get rid of that. So we sort of destroy,
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: we have a shredder, we shred things. And then in
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: the afternoon I start building up some of those positive tools. It's,
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: incredible what you can do in two days with these
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: tools it's fast tracking that transformation is empowering people with
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: a toolkit that can really enable them to take their
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: power back change how they feel and let them know
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: most people don't know that you can control how you
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: feel yeah most people live in reaction like well they've
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: done this so i feel this and what i say
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: is Actually, yeah, and that's a normal reaction, but you
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: can dial that down. And even dialing from a 10
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: to an 8 means you can get out of bed.
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: Maybe you can take the kids to school. If you
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: turn that 8 to a 5, you can probably work
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: in quite a good way. You can probably be quite productive.
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: And then I can show you how to dial that
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: right down. So, again, it's not a magic wand, unfortunately.
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: You can't get rid of all the pain. But definitely
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: by the end of the two days, the transformations, people
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: look younger. the friendships that are formed from people that
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: are like, I would never stop and speak to.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: You on the street.
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because we've shared so much, you know, and I
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: share and we all kind of bond. And then towards
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: the end of the second day, we're doing a lot
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: of that future planning for that blank canvas or that
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: that black hole. We're filling that with color and we're
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: creating that vision board for the future. I have music pumping.
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: People are dancing, you know, hugging. It's just amazing.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I think it's so fantastic that people have
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: that as an opportunity to do that. I am not
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: dating anybody, but if I do and then break up,
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: I'm going to come to.
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: Your retreat because I think it sounds fantastic.
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: OK, last question.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: What are the most misunderstood or give me one misunderstood
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: thing about breaking up?
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: Well, I think people think that that's it and it's
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: overwhelming and that's just ruined part of their life. I
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: hear so many people saying, well, they've ruined my life
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: now because I'm not getting the fairy tale ending that
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: I dreamed of. Right. What I say is you can
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: absolutely go through the breakup if you deal with it.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: We have to grieve. It's like the second most traumatic
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: experience we go through in life after death of a
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: loved one. You're going to go through that grief cycle
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: but that's healthy to do that and healthy to come
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: out the other side and you can go on to
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: be even happier more confident stronger than ever before and
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: create a life you're really excited to.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Live right and i think it's important to remember that
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: everyone has gone through one if they haven't been divorced
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: they've at least gone through a breakup with a loved
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: one And there's always an opportunity for a second chance,
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: for a second chapter. And I think that that should
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: give people hope to know that it's like you're saying,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: it's not the end. It's not the end of your story.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: It can be the beginning of a new one that
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: could be even more exciting because you're a different person
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: at this point in your life than you were before.
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: Where can people find you if they want to go
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: to a retreat, if they want to read one of
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: your books?
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: I also, let's mention your.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: Your two books, you have the split breakup to breakthrough
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: in 30 days or less, which by the way, is
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: interesting to me because I remember, let's say a decade ago,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: maybe not a decade, but seven or eight years ago,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: somebody gave me during a breakup, a book that said
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: 30 days or less to get your boyfriend back. So
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that you have a book that
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: actually lets people not become a stalker because that's really
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: what that book was about. And uncoupling how to survive
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: and thrive after breakup and divorce so where can people
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: get these these books if they want to read.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: On amazon yeah and we have online support groups as
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: well which i set up because it's everything i wish
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: that i'd had so if you are going through a
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: breakup and you're struggling and you just want to talk
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: to like-minded people they're all run by my coaches they're
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: online zoom groups you can definitely find your tribe with
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: those um and obviously my retreats and my training school
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: so that's on my website sarahdavidson.com um and also my
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: instagram i put loads of daily tips up there and
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: videos so That's Sarah Davison, Divorce Coach.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 5: Perfect.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: And I'm just curious, what is your relationship like with
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: your ex now?
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: Do you know what? We are functionally friendly. We get
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: on well and my son can go between. We can
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: be in the same room. It actually works really well now,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: but that's taken a lot of work to get to
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: this point. So I know it's not easy, but everything
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: I learn, I always say it's a gift, you know,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: that going through that trauma and lots of trauma since
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: with that relationship. Actually, if you can turn that pain
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: into your power, which I definitely have, That's why I
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: want to show everyone that's the mission I'm on to share,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: that you don't have to, where you start is not
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: where you're going to end. So have hope and you
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: can do the work. You can definitely get there.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: Well, Sarah, thank you. I appreciate you.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: I appreciate your information that you've given to people today.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: You're very helpful and I hope people will reach out
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: to you.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much, Rachel.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: Rachel Yucatel. Please be sure to subscribe to the show
• 1:01:51
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• 1:01:54
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• 1:01:58
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• 1:02:01
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• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: at gmail.com. That's spelled M-I-S-S understood. Thank you so much,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: and I'll see you next time.
• 1:02:17
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