Latest / UK Column Radio / Syria Podcast Episode 7

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Syria Podcast Episode 7 · UK Column Radio

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to episode seven of the Syria Podcast.
0:03
Speaker 1: I'm joined once again by Vanessa Billy. Welcome to the program, Vanessa.
0:08
Speaker 2: Thanks Mike. It's always good to be back on with you.
0:10
Speaker 2: And a lot is happening.
0:13
Speaker 1: Well indeed, And of course the news from this week
0:15
Speaker 1: is that the UK has claimed to lift all the
0:19
Speaker 1: sanctions against HTS and the current Syrian government regime, whatever
0:24
Speaker 1: it is. We shouldn't forget that. What we're talking about
0:27
Speaker 1: here is a bunch of terrorists that have variously called
0:31
Speaker 1: themselves Al Qaeda or are kind of affiliates ISIS and
0:35
Speaker 1: so on. So I suppose the first question is is
0:40
Speaker 1: this the validation by the British government of a terrorist organization.
0:46
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so, because I think if you
0:48
Speaker 2: look at the actual statement made by Gov UK, they
0:53
Speaker 2: are making amendments, and this is very much what's going
0:56
Speaker 2: on across Europe and in the US. The sanctions are
1:00
Speaker 2: not really being lifted. The amendments are basically on sanctions
1:06
Speaker 2: that previously were preventing development of the energy infrastructure or
1:15
Speaker 2: repair of the energy infrastructure that of course is still
1:18
Speaker 2: effectively under the occupation of the US anyway via ISIS
1:24
Speaker 2: proxies and Kurdish proxies of course what they've done. So
1:31
Speaker 2: they're saying they're going to ease the sanctions from that respect,
1:36
Speaker 2: also on the media, which to some extent is supportive
1:40
Speaker 2: of the fact that the media is now representing Jolani's
1:44
Speaker 2: terrorist regime. As you mentioned, I mean, Jolani still has
1:48
Speaker 2: a bounty on his head, despite having changed his name
1:51
Speaker 2: to a Meadel Shaddha, despite having dissolved HTS effectively, which
1:58
Speaker 2: was formerly Al Kaeda, and he was formerly with ISIS. Again,
2:01
Speaker 2: as you said, they are still a terrorist organization and
2:05
Speaker 2: they're still carrying out a trustees against Syrian minorities in particular,
2:11
Speaker 2: but against Syrian civilians across the whole societal structure inside
2:18
Speaker 2: Syria itself. But the other amendment is to individual sanctions
2:25
Speaker 2: against for example, the Minister of Interior in the Minister
2:28
Speaker 2: of Defense Will These are individual targeted sanctions. So again
2:36
Speaker 2: they're not going to have huge effect on Jiolani's attempt
2:41
Speaker 2: to economically rebuild Syria. So as they said that, they're
2:46
Speaker 2: kind of a token gesture, but they're not actually going
2:50
Speaker 2: to have any kind of positive effect on the restoration
2:56
Speaker 2: of Syria under al Qaeda, and particularly because Trump still
3:03
Speaker 2: has his Caesar sanctions in place, and of course the
3:07
Speaker 2: Caesar sanctions prevent any other country financially assisting Syria. So
3:14
Speaker 2: it's sort of all a bit of smoke and mirrors
3:17
Speaker 2: in my opinion, because they have to shore up the
3:20
Speaker 2: narrative of course in Syria, and they're not now going
3:24
Speaker 2: to admit that the whole fourteen years prior to December
3:29
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, they were funding al Qaeda to overthrow
3:33
Speaker 2: a legitimate government in Syria. That you know, they have
3:37
Speaker 2: to defend their narratives for the last fourteen years.
3:41
Speaker 1: So where does that leave Jilani then? Is his position
3:44
Speaker 1: secure at this point?
3:46
Speaker 2: No, Jilani's in a very precarious position. We have to
3:50
Speaker 2: remember that Jilani previously was basically in control of a
3:55
Speaker 2: region of Syria in the northwest, the idlerb Province, and
4:00
Speaker 2: even though he had problems in bringing together the multiple
4:06
Speaker 2: armed groups and foreign tech theory groups under the HTS umbrella. HTS,
4:13
Speaker 2: of course, is a rebranding of nusre Front, which is
4:17
Speaker 2: Al Qaeda in Syria, and that rebranding came about to
4:21
Speaker 2: try and legitimize Jolani's militia in Julanese leadership and his
4:27
Speaker 2: ability to provide political opposition to the previous Syrian government.
4:34
Speaker 2: But many of those tech theory groups swore allegiance to
4:38
Speaker 2: Jolani and to HTS on the basis that Jolani would
4:41
Speaker 2: provide them with a caliphate in Syria that would be
4:45
Speaker 2: governed under Sharia law, and that would be Sunni or
4:49
Speaker 2: tach they Muslim dominant inside Syria, and would of course
4:55
Speaker 2: ultimately lead to the ethnic cleansing of all minorities that
5:00
Speaker 2: don't comply with or are not prepared to accept being
5:04
Speaker 2: ruled by such a dark age Islamist ideology. And then,
5:10
Speaker 2: of course, when Jilani took power in December twenty twenty four,
5:15
Speaker 2: what happened is that all of his backers in the
5:18
Speaker 2: West started to expect those tech theory policies and to
5:23
Speaker 2: align himself more with Western liberalism. And so now what
5:27
Speaker 2: you're seeing is a backlash from the more extremist groups
5:30
Speaker 2: that were already not particularly in favor of Jiulani's leadership.
5:35
Speaker 2: And we have to remember that in Edlope, the US
5:39
Speaker 2: was helping Jilani come to prominence by actually assassinating many
5:44
Speaker 2: of the opposition leaders, particularly in a group called Hara Saldin,
5:48
Speaker 2: that were the main competitors to Jilani's power base in Edlob.
5:53
Speaker 2: And now the US is backing off this kind of support.
5:57
Speaker 2: It's drawing down on its own true presence inside Syria
6:01
Speaker 2: in the northeast. But it's also through Trump's rhetoric and
6:05
Speaker 2: the rhetoric of his administration, they are demonstrating that they
6:10
Speaker 2: don't want to continue supporting Jiulani, either with weapons or
6:14
Speaker 2: economically or with support. And they're also very backward and
6:19
Speaker 2: coming forward about lifting the sanctions, as are the EU.
6:24
Speaker 2: So Jiulani is effectively facing a situation where there is
6:28
Speaker 2: potential for infighting among the groups that have previously supported him.
6:35
Speaker 2: There is the risk of competition from groups, for example
6:39
Speaker 2: in the South with the Eighth Brigade that was originally
6:42
Speaker 2: established by Russia after the liberation of the South from
6:46
Speaker 2: the various Tach Theory groups, and Ahmedalaudo is giving Jilani
6:52
Speaker 2: a lot of problems in the South in Dada. But
6:55
Speaker 2: there's also now the re emergence of ISIS, which of
6:59
Speaker 2: course is a proxy of the United States. They are
7:02
Speaker 2: now advancing on Damascus and Sueda, and this has to
7:07
Speaker 2: be with the support of the United States, and not
7:10
Speaker 2: forgetting that the UK was also funding and potentially still
7:15
Speaker 2: is funding the actual holding camps for isis in the Northeast,
7:19
Speaker 2: and we can come into more detail on that in
7:22
Speaker 2: a minute.
7:23
Speaker 1: You've mentioned the term tach theory a couple of times there.
7:27
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure a lot of people will be aware
7:30
Speaker 1: of what that means or what how that fits in
7:33
Speaker 1: with the sort of traditional Sunni Shia view of Islam.
7:38
Speaker 1: Where does tach theory Islam sit in amongst all that lot?
7:41
Speaker 2: Well, tech theory is an extremist branch of Islam. It's
7:45
Speaker 2: not really accepted as an ideology by moderate Sunny Muslims
7:50
Speaker 2: and definitely not by Shia Islam. It was generated from
7:56
Speaker 2: within Sunny Muslim ideology. But as I say, like the
8:00
Speaker 2: Wahabi doctrine, which was generated by Saudi Arabia, and therefore
8:05
Speaker 2: one can argue that it was actually orchestrated and engineered
8:09
Speaker 2: by the West and particularly by the UK. But the
8:12
Speaker 2: tach Fury project is very similar to the Zionist project
8:17
Speaker 2: in Palestine in the sense that what is now happening
8:20
Speaker 2: in Syria is that the tech fury groups are leading
8:24
Speaker 2: an ethnic cleansing program against As I said, Syrian is
8:29
Speaker 2: including Allowhites, Christians, and even sunny Muslims that don't comply
8:33
Speaker 2: with this extremist ideology. And it's a very racist, elitist ideology.
8:38
Speaker 2: Of course, anyone that doesn't adhere to it is considered
8:42
Speaker 2: a koffer or an infidel, and as such can be killed.
8:47
Speaker 2: And then basically, once they've displaced these various minorities within Syria,
8:52
Speaker 2: what's happening is that they're settling in their properties and
8:56
Speaker 2: on their land. So, as I said, it's very similar
8:58
Speaker 2: if people can compare it to the ZIONUS project in Palestine,
9:02
Speaker 2: it's effectively the same strategy and the same campaign.
9:07
Speaker 1: Okay, so you mentioned the fact that the United States
9:11
Speaker 1: is pulling back a little bit. I don't know how
9:15
Speaker 1: you view this, but I've actually viewed the whole Syrian
9:19
Speaker 1: conflict since twenty eleven as being more of a British
9:22
Speaker 1: project than the United States project. Yes, the US has
9:25
Speaker 1: supported in the US has clearly got basis or a
9:29
Speaker 1: bass or basis in Syria, but it always seemed to
9:33
Speaker 1: be to be much more driven primarily by Britain. First
9:36
Speaker 1: of all, do you agree with that? And second of all,
9:39
Speaker 1: what is Britain up to at the moment?
9:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I do agree with you. I think
9:43
Speaker 2: Syria from the beginning was far more of a British
9:47
Speaker 2: intelligence operation. They were managing the strategy on the ground
9:52
Speaker 2: both before the beginning of the so called armed peaceful uprising,
10:00
Speaker 2: with the US of course providing finance and the political
10:05
Speaker 2: diplomatic muscle providing the platforms for the so called Syrian
10:11
Speaker 2: opposition from the beginning. But Britain was heavily involved, as
10:15
Speaker 2: we know from I think it was the twenty twenty
10:18
Speaker 2: League of UK FDO documents proving that they'd been running
10:24
Speaker 2: media operations supporting the armed groups basically whitewashing the armed
10:29
Speaker 2: groups from the beginning, creating complexes of so called citizen
10:34
Speaker 2: journalists that had been embedded with the armed groups from
10:37
Speaker 2: twenty eleven onwards, one of the most famous being Danny
10:41
Speaker 2: Abdul Dahan, of course, who was caught out providing fake
10:45
Speaker 2: stories to CNN back in I think it was twenty
10:49
Speaker 2: twelve twenty thirteen, which then, of course is when the
10:53
Speaker 2: White Helmets were established by MI six predominantly and the
10:58
Speaker 2: UK Foreign Office were the main supporters from a financial
11:04
Speaker 2: perspective of the organization from the beginning that was reported
11:08
Speaker 2: even by for example the Telegraph from the Guardian and
11:13
Speaker 2: the CIA of course were involved, particularly through USA that
11:17
Speaker 2: has now allegedly been shut down under the Trump administration.
11:22
Speaker 2: And of course they were supported by Katara, by Turkey,
11:25
Speaker 2: and by all of the other members of the regime
11:29
Speaker 2: change Alliance, including Israel of course, who enabled their evacuation
11:35
Speaker 2: back in twenty eighteen when Southern Syria came back under
11:38
Speaker 2: the control of the Syrian government and armed forces. But Britain, yes,
11:44
Speaker 2: were instrumental in the intelligence operations. I mean you talk
11:48
Speaker 2: about the US basis, but the largest of the US basis,
11:52
Speaker 2: which is Altana on the border with Jordan and Iraq,
11:56
Speaker 2: is staffed very much by British forces. And there was
12:01
Speaker 2: a video released I released about two or three years
12:04
Speaker 2: ago showing training of the former Free Syrian Army so
12:09
Speaker 2: called Moderate Militia at Elton f by British Special Force trainers.
12:15
Speaker 2: And not forgetting that in I think it was twenty twenty,
12:18
Speaker 2: there was an actual SAS Special Forces operative airlifted out
12:24
Speaker 2: of Southern Syria where apparently he was helping with the
12:28
Speaker 2: development of ited technology, which of course has been a
12:32
Speaker 2: favorite weapon of the various armed groups in particularly southern
12:38
Speaker 2: Syria and in Damascus itself, targeting civilian buses and vehicles.
12:44
Speaker 2: So yeah, Britain has been heavily involved from the beginning
12:48
Speaker 2: and it's involved again now. And this is something that
12:51
Speaker 2: I'm looking at and we're obviously going to cover at
12:54
Speaker 2: UK column. But there are British security private security firms
12:59
Speaker 2: now working inside Syria. I'm not going to mention the
13:02
Speaker 2: name because they said I'm working on an investigation into them,
13:07
Speaker 2: but they are heavily involved again, working alongside Jolani and
13:13
Speaker 2: the al Kaeda forces known as HTS now that have
13:18
Speaker 2: been carrying out the ethnic cleansing programs of the minorities.
13:22
Speaker 2: So Britain is still there very much so, and I
13:26
Speaker 2: mentioned that they are funding the ISIS holding camps in
13:30
Speaker 2: the northeast. Now there's around ten thousand ISIS fighters, some
13:35
Speaker 2: of the most hardline fighters being held in those camps,
13:40
Speaker 2: forty thousand family members, so that's you know, that's a
13:44
Speaker 2: force of around fifty thousand that are being held in
13:47
Speaker 2: those camps in northeast of Syria. And I think we
13:50
Speaker 2: should also discuss how the US now is trying to
13:53
Speaker 2: maneuver around the occupation of Syria by Russia, Israel, and Turkey.
14:02
Speaker 2: Russia I put in there because it's working very much
14:05
Speaker 2: in collaboration with Israel to consolidate its own military base
14:11
Speaker 2: in the coastal region. But I think that's worth discussing
14:15
Speaker 2: as a sort of a branch of the problems that
14:19
Speaker 2: Jilani is facing.
14:20
Speaker 1: During the conflict itself, it was clear to see the
14:24
Speaker 1: role of UK supported NGOs like the White Helmets and
14:28
Speaker 1: so on. You know, they were mainly well, I guess
14:31
Speaker 1: they were providing intelligence, but they were also providing a
14:34
Speaker 1: very clear propaganda role. If there are continuing efforts to
14:40
Speaker 1: bring private security firms in Syria under the current regime,
14:45
Speaker 1: what is their main role going to be, do you think?
14:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that's an interesting question, and
14:51
Speaker 2: I've been looking at this this morning. Now, First of all,
14:55
Speaker 2: it's important to come back to Jolani's position. They reported
15:01
Speaker 2: on Wednesday on UK column that two US lawmakers Republican
15:07
Speaker 2: congressmen had recently visited Syria and met on an unofficial
15:13
Speaker 2: basis with Jiolani. Corey Mills was leading that expedition, and
15:18
Speaker 2: they clearly came there with instructions for Giulani, because almost
15:24
Speaker 2: immediately he set about arresting the Palestinian resistance leadership, he's
15:29
Speaker 2: already basically de weaponized all Palestinian resistance groups, and even
15:35
Speaker 2: Palestinian groups that were formally incorporated into the Syrian Arabami,
15:41
Speaker 2: they've all been de weaponized and basically declawed. Their headquarters
15:46
Speaker 2: have been closed down. So from this perspective, Jolani is
15:51
Speaker 2: operating according to instructions from the US, which is to prevents,
15:55
Speaker 2: as he says, any attacks from Syrian territory against any
16:01
Speaker 2: other foreign nation, and of course we know that this
16:03
Speaker 2: has to prioritize Israel, so that's obviously one of the
16:08
Speaker 2: instructions that he received during that meeting. But he then
16:13
Speaker 2: gave an interview to the New York Times in which
16:16
Speaker 2: effectively my takeaway from that interview is that the US
16:21
Speaker 2: is no longer going to be supporting HTS with weapons,
16:25
Speaker 2: with support on the energy front, or providing food or
16:30
Speaker 2: any kind of financial support for Syria. In fact, they
16:34
Speaker 2: seem to be pushing Jolani towards Russia and Turkey, and
16:38
Speaker 2: Jolani mentions in the interview, they had been using Russian
16:42
Speaker 2: manufactured weapons and so therefore it would make sense if
16:46
Speaker 2: Russia now would provide the weapons to Jolani as the
16:50
Speaker 2: so called legitimate government to continue in establishing any kind
16:55
Speaker 2: of military capability within Syria, Israel, of course having to
17:00
Speaker 2: destroyed that capability immediately after the eighth of December, the
17:04
Speaker 2: reliance on Turkey, which of course worked for them when
17:07
Speaker 2: they were in ed leb and Turkey and even Ukraine
17:10
Speaker 2: were providing drone technology, drone support and training for the militia.
17:18
Speaker 2: But Israel has made it very clear that Turkey isn't
17:21
Speaker 2: going to be allowed to fully support Jolani in central Syria.
17:26
Speaker 2: We know that Israel bombed the T four airbase in
17:30
Speaker 2: central Syria close to Homsen, Palmira, the Palmira base itself,
17:36
Speaker 2: and the Hama Air Base, so all the three points
17:39
Speaker 2: where Turkey was intending to establish both air defense and
17:44
Speaker 2: military capability to support Jolani. Israel has sent a very
17:48
Speaker 2: clear message that no, you're not going to be allowed
17:50
Speaker 2: to do that. Jolani is not going to receive this
17:53
Speaker 2: kind of support in Syria must remain in a state
17:57
Speaker 2: of military incapacity and inability to either defend itself against
18:03
Speaker 2: Israel or in the future to lead any kind of
18:07
Speaker 2: offensive campaign to retake territory that Israel has occupied since
18:13
Speaker 2: the fall of the Syrian government in December twenty twenty four.
18:17
Speaker 2: So effectively, what it seems to be to me is
18:19
Speaker 2: that the US is pushing Jolani towards Russia, having to
18:24
Speaker 2: a degree agreed with Russia's collaboration with Israel and its
18:29
Speaker 2: continuing presence on the coast in Syria. And we know
18:33
Speaker 2: that Trump has very much a win lose policy with
18:37
Speaker 2: anyone that Trump is negotiating with, so he's not going
18:41
Speaker 2: to allow Russia to have the win win of consolidating
18:45
Speaker 2: their military base on the coast without giving them the lose,
18:49
Speaker 2: which is to then support the so called existing government
18:53
Speaker 2: in Syria, if that makes sense. And so how I
18:57
Speaker 2: perceive Britain now building up the presence of private security
19:03
Speaker 2: firms inside Syria, which of course gives them plausible deniability
19:08
Speaker 2: from any involvement with any of the crimes that Jolani
19:12
Speaker 2: and his forces are continuing to commit. But however, what
19:16
Speaker 2: it does do from a clandestine position is support militarily
19:22
Speaker 2: the Jolani government at the same time, as I said,
19:26
Speaker 2: the US is deploying ISIS against Jolani. Potentially they've been
19:32
Speaker 2: carrying out attacks. In fact, the attacks have increased since
19:35
Speaker 2: the visit of the US lawmakers, So that intimates to
19:39
Speaker 2: me that this is a designated operation by US intelligence
19:45
Speaker 2: to trigger ISIS, to Destabilizeria and to turn against Jolani.
19:52
Speaker 2: So creating chaos to a degree which keeps Central Syria
19:56
Speaker 2: in a state of chaos, reduces the threat of any
20:00
Speaker 2: formation of resistance that might challenge Israel, and to keep
20:04
Speaker 2: Jolani busy. At the same time, the former free Syrian
20:08
Speaker 2: army forces that were being trained and recruited in the
20:11
Speaker 2: Altanev base have also been deployed, and I'm told that
20:15
Speaker 2: they're within ten kilometers of Damascus, and they've taken control
20:19
Speaker 2: of one of the air bases on the route from
20:22
Speaker 2: Altanev to Damascus. So Julani is clearly getting put under
20:27
Speaker 2: pressure now. Britain putting those private security firms in there
20:33
Speaker 2: may not only be to support Giolani. This could also
20:37
Speaker 2: be a long term strategy to start training former Syrian
20:42
Speaker 2: military that didn't evacuate from the country after the fall
20:47
Speaker 2: of the former government, but remained and have not been
20:51
Speaker 2: found to have committed crimes against Giorlanians or previously as
20:57
Speaker 2: far as I know, and I was reading this this morning.
21:00
Speaker 2: They are also being incorporated into these private security firms
21:04
Speaker 2: and being trained up. So is this Britain securing its
21:08
Speaker 2: own foothold for a future in Syria that may or
21:11
Speaker 2: may not contain Jolani and hts interesting maneuver by the British.
21:18
Speaker 1: So we're, you know, we're looking at an attempt then
21:21
Speaker 1: if I'm hearing you correctly, to try to typically with Britain,
21:26
Speaker 1: try to manage because Syria is clearly becoming I think,
21:30
Speaker 1: how did you put it an arena for regional rivalry.
21:32
Speaker 1: We've got Turkey, We've got Israel, we've got Russia, all
21:35
Speaker 1: playing in that area. Britain is now trying to establish
21:39
Speaker 1: a presence of the United States is there. So this
21:41
Speaker 1: is basically Britain trying to play its usual games and
21:47
Speaker 1: manage and.
21:49
Speaker 2: Also to make itself indispensable because if it has control
21:52
Speaker 2: of the private security sector in Syria, it's going to
21:56
Speaker 2: be a necessary element for whoever takes charge. Because and
22:01
Speaker 2: this is you know, this brings us onto the fact
22:04
Speaker 2: is there a growing resistance from Syrians themselves. Yes, there is.
22:10
Speaker 2: We have to remember there were up to I think
22:13
Speaker 2: eighty thousand Syrian Arabami soldiers who disappeared after December the eighth.
22:18
Speaker 2: Where are they? I am being told they're in neighboring
22:22
Speaker 2: countries and they've been prepared, they've been trained, and they're
22:27
Speaker 2: ready for any kind of military action. What is needed,
22:32
Speaker 2: of course, is a Syrian centric because we have to
22:37
Speaker 2: remember Jolani's government is congested where they gain foreign players.
22:43
Speaker 2: Every member of his government has Turkish citizenship, and of
22:48
Speaker 2: course the majority of his so called military is foreign
22:52
Speaker 2: tech theory elements from China, from Afghanistan, from Chechnya, from Europe.
23:00
Speaker 2: So it's a Syrian opposition, political opposition, which I know
23:06
Speaker 2: members who of the Syrian community who left in December
23:10
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four are now working on building this kind
23:13
Speaker 2: of true Syrian opposition. So I think people Syrian people
23:20
Speaker 2: have sort of recovered from the trauma of what happened
23:23
Speaker 2: in December twenty twenty four. I know that there is
23:27
Speaker 2: now a resistance forming, an even stronger resistance forming on
23:32
Speaker 2: the coast. For example, following the massacres by HTS and
23:37
Speaker 2: various affiliates of particularly the Alla white minorities, but as
23:40
Speaker 2: they keep saying, of all Syrian communities that don't accept
23:45
Speaker 2: HTS rule and brutality. And so I think Britain is
23:51
Speaker 2: trying to stave off not only the end of Jiulani potentially,
23:58
Speaker 2: but also, as you say, the interference by stronger foreign
24:03
Speaker 2: powers being Russia, Turkey in particular, but also the Gulf States,
24:08
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia and cut out, but also preparing to ensure
24:13
Speaker 2: that Syria doesn't heaven forbid, become Syrian again and have
24:20
Speaker 2: a policy that is against neocolonialism, against British and Allied imperialism.
24:27
Speaker 2: So I think, yes, I think British intelligence is working
24:30
Speaker 2: as it always does, to prepare the ground for British influence.
24:34
Speaker 1: You mentioned that the United States is trying to push
24:37
Speaker 1: Jiulani towards Russia, as Russia made any statement, but its
24:41
Speaker 1: attitude to these people and the fact that they are
24:44
Speaker 1: proxies for the West, you know, bearing in mind that
24:47
Speaker 1: Russia is dealing with proxies Western proxies in another conflict.
24:52
Speaker 1: I'm interested to get a feeling for what Russia's attitude is.
24:56
Speaker 1: Do they just they deal with these things on the
24:59
Speaker 1: kids by kids bus. They don't have a sort of
25:01
Speaker 1: policy with respect to this. I mean, have they given
25:05
Speaker 1: any impression about their willingness to cooperate with HDS.
25:08
Speaker 2: I mean they have if you think. I quite remember
25:11
Speaker 2: how quickly Book Dunoff, who is the deputy Foreign Minister,
25:15
Speaker 2: came to Syria. I think it was early in January,
25:18
Speaker 2: but I could be wrong, but it was very quickly
25:20
Speaker 2: after the fall of Damascus, and effectively that normalized Jolani's leadership.
25:27
Speaker 2: And that meeting had been broken by the President of
25:31
Speaker 2: Belarus who arrived prior to bug Duanoff's visit. And Russia
25:36
Speaker 2: has made statements along the lines that they will support
25:39
Speaker 2: Syrian sovereignty and so on, and yeah, they have effectively
25:43
Speaker 2: recognized the door Lani government and they are negotiating with
25:49
Speaker 2: the Jolani government.
25:51
Speaker 1: Now.
25:51
Speaker 2: Initially Jolani had made one of the conditions of that
25:56
Speaker 2: normalization being the handing over of the presidents. Had former
26:01
Speaker 2: President is said it was admitted in a very recent
26:04
Speaker 2: interview with Jolani that Russia has refused to do that.
26:10
Speaker 2: But still Jolani is now talking, as he has done
26:13
Speaker 2: with New York Times about potentially Russia supplying weapons to
26:18
Speaker 2: Jolani's militia. This ties in with anecdotal evidence that I
26:25
Speaker 2: received about two or three months ago that Jolani had
26:28
Speaker 2: actually said this in a visit to Dlub. He had
26:32
Speaker 2: told people there, now it's fine, you know, Russia has discovered.
26:35
Speaker 2: Russia is going to provide weapons to keep us going
26:38
Speaker 2: and so on. Now that was something that I was
26:40
Speaker 2: told by people who sources that were there at the time.
26:45
Speaker 2: I haven't reported it, but now even Jolani is saying it,
26:50
Speaker 2: So that seems to basically bear out what I was
26:53
Speaker 2: told two or three months ago that Jolani sees very
26:56
Speaker 2: much a partnership continuing with Russia as a partner ship
27:00
Speaker 2: existed of course with the former Syrian government, and Russia
27:04
Speaker 2: is printing money for Jolani. They haven't stopped doing that.
27:08
Speaker 2: They're printing the Syrian Era and they've sent at least
27:12
Speaker 2: one shipment of that, and they are restoring their military
27:17
Speaker 2: presence in the coastal region. Again, I noticed more recently
27:24
Speaker 2: looking at some of the kind of open source intelligence accounts,
27:28
Speaker 2: particularly on as that there are satellite images of Russian
27:33
Speaker 2: military hardware returning to the Heimomin base and the naval
27:38
Speaker 2: base in the coastal region. So it appears to me that, yeah,
27:43
Speaker 2: Russia is quite happy to normalize with Jolani going forward,
27:47
Speaker 2: as long as, of course Jolani is in power inside Syria.
27:52
Speaker 1: And this is because the coastal base is critically important
27:55
Speaker 1: for them.
27:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is critically important to them. It's very you know,
27:59
Speaker 2: they they have decamped to some extent to Libya. But
28:05
Speaker 2: it's also important to understand the collaboration with Israel, because, yes,
28:10
Speaker 2: Turkey and Israel were an alliance when it came to
28:14
Speaker 2: the actual overthrow of President Assad and the former Syrian government.
28:20
Speaker 2: But now, as we've talked about on New UK column,
28:22
Speaker 2: there is rivalry between the Zionist expansionist plans for the
28:27
Speaker 2: region and Erduwan's neo Ottoman plants for the region. And
28:31
Speaker 2: Israel has made it very clear that Erduwan is not
28:34
Speaker 2: going to be allowed to extend his influence further insight
28:37
Speaker 2: Syria than the northern sectors that he has traditional or
28:43
Speaker 2: historically had control of since twenty eleven. And Russia is
28:48
Speaker 2: collaborating with Israel because Israel, i believe, has lobbied the
28:52
Speaker 2: US to enable Russia to stay on the coast, and
28:56
Speaker 2: of course it's also probably part of the deal on
28:59
Speaker 2: Ukraine that Russia is able to stay in Syria. The
29:03
Speaker 2: US has lifted the condition that it originally applied to
29:08
Speaker 2: the lifting of sanctions Soncholani. It's lifted the condition that
29:11
Speaker 2: Russia must leave. That's gone from the new list of conditions.
29:16
Speaker 2: So clearly there has been some negotiation, perhaps with Israel
29:21
Speaker 2: brokering it that Russia should stay. And both Russia and
29:26
Speaker 2: Israel have an interest in preventing Uranian influence in Syria.
29:32
Speaker 2: I'll come back to that in a second, but also
29:35
Speaker 2: principally preventing Turkish expansionism and to protect the gas reserve
29:41
Speaker 2: interests off the coast of Syria. Of course, that's very important.
29:46
Speaker 2: And again I've said it many times, but Russia was
29:50
Speaker 2: given the exclusive exploitation rates to those gas reserves by
29:55
Speaker 2: the former government, and of course it will be looking
29:58
Speaker 2: for renewing the interests with the current government. Why does
30:03
Speaker 2: Russia want to keep Iranian influence out of Syria? Well,
30:08
Speaker 2: although Russia has recently inked a sort of strategic partnership
30:13
Speaker 2: with Iran which includes the exploitation of Iranian gas reserves,
30:18
Speaker 2: Iran was always a competitor in Syria and in the
30:23
Speaker 2: region for Russia. I was told that multiple times by
30:26
Speaker 2: both Russian military and for example, the Russian reconciliation people
30:32
Speaker 2: inside Syria. They were perceived as a necessary ally, but
30:36
Speaker 2: as a competitor. So Russia, alongside Israel Agan wants to
30:41
Speaker 2: reduce Iranian influence, if not eradicated completely in the region,
30:47
Speaker 2: both from an Israeli security perspective, but also from a
30:51
Speaker 2: Russian geopolitical perspective.
30:54
Speaker 1: You were talking about US conditions there. You're talking about
30:57
Speaker 1: the conditions that the US is making before they will
31:01
Speaker 1: lift sanctions. I mean, are we talking about the removal
31:05
Speaker 1: of the Caesar sanctions?
31:06
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, this is what they're saying. But Mike,
31:11
Speaker 2: this is kind of the point. You know, all of
31:13
Speaker 2: these the EU, the UK, the US, they're talking about
31:16
Speaker 2: the lifting of sanctions, but are they actually lifting anything. No,
31:20
Speaker 2: not really. We talked about the amendments to the UK sanctions.
31:23
Speaker 2: The EU have eased some sanctions basically focused on so
31:29
Speaker 2: called humanitarian relief, but they haven't lifted the bulk of
31:33
Speaker 2: the sanctions. The US so far has as far as
31:38
Speaker 2: I'm aware, they've only provided for concessions for humanitarian aid
31:42
Speaker 2: and relief. They haven't lifted anything significant now. Part of
31:47
Speaker 2: the conditions now is to destroy serious chemical weapon capability
31:53
Speaker 2: and sort of laughing slightly at that, because of course
31:55
Speaker 2: that was the reason for the majority of the sustenance
31:59
Speaker 2: or the the sustaining of the regime change war. And
32:03
Speaker 2: we know perfectly well that Syria destroyed it's chemical weapons
32:07
Speaker 2: capability back in twenty thirteen fourteen with Russia's guarantees. We
32:13
Speaker 2: also know from the OPCW inspectors who were involved in
32:18
Speaker 2: the discrediting of the alleged chemical attacks by the Syrian
32:23
Speaker 2: government in Duma in twenty eighteen, we know from them
32:27
Speaker 2: that Syria had destroyed its chemical weapon capability. They inspected
32:32
Speaker 2: the facilities that the US is now talking about having
32:36
Speaker 2: existing chemical weapon capabilities. Yet they've added that as part
32:41
Speaker 2: of the conditions for lifting the sanctions. Right, they want
32:45
Speaker 2: Jolani to find Austin Tice, who was a journalist who
32:50
Speaker 2: disappeared around twenty twelve inside Syria. This for me is
32:54
Speaker 2: just it's propaganda because if they haven't found him yet,
32:58
Speaker 2: he's not alive is my opinion, and he's unlikely to
33:02
Speaker 2: be found. But this is you know this is just
33:05
Speaker 2: pr basically and then the hardest one for Gilani. They've
33:11
Speaker 2: basically told him you have to get rid of all
33:15
Speaker 2: foreign terrorists inside Syria. Well, again, this demonstrates to me
33:19
Speaker 2: that what they're effectively doing is undermining Giulani because if
33:23
Speaker 2: he gets rid of all foreign terrorists inside Syria, but
33:28
Speaker 2: he's in between a rock and an extremely hard placed
33:31
Speaker 2: because he's offered these foreign terrorists citizenship as a reward
33:36
Speaker 2: for their help in putting him in the position he's
33:40
Speaker 2: now in. He previously, as I said, promised them a
33:43
Speaker 2: caliphate under Sharia law and torn and so forth. He's
33:48
Speaker 2: made them members of the government and commandos within his
33:54
Speaker 2: so called military. So what is he going to do.
33:58
Speaker 2: Is he going to rescind those incentives. That's going to
34:01
Speaker 2: very rapidly turn those very influential foreign terrorists against him
34:07
Speaker 2: and his own military depends on I think HDS is
34:11
Speaker 2: made up of around forty foreign terrorists. It might even
34:16
Speaker 2: be higher than that. So the US is pushing him
34:20
Speaker 2: into a very deep dark corner in my opinion, with
34:24
Speaker 2: this condition, and that is going to be extremely difficult
34:27
Speaker 2: for him to fulfill. So in my opinion, they don't
34:30
Speaker 2: want to lift the sanctions, and cat Art is not,
34:33
Speaker 2: for example, providing assistance as it promised with electrical power
34:38
Speaker 2: and the repair of all of the energy energy infrastructure
34:45
Speaker 2: because it's afraid that Trump is going to use the
34:48
Speaker 2: Caesar sanctions against them. Because of course, the Caesar sanctions
34:52
Speaker 2: were the punishment, the collective punishment of any country that
34:55
Speaker 2: came to the aid of Syria. So if Kata now
34:57
Speaker 2: comes to the aid of Syria, potential that the US
35:01
Speaker 2: will impose sanctions on them. So do you see what
35:03
Speaker 2: I mean? They're keeping Jolani in a very negative holding
35:08
Speaker 2: pattern while they deploy their other proxies against him.
35:14
Speaker 1: Is there a possibility that actually the reason for this
35:17
Speaker 1: is that they need him to agree to the Ibraham Accords. Yes,
35:24
Speaker 1: is that part of it?
35:25
Speaker 2: Yeah?
35:26
Speaker 1: And just just just just before you before you answer that,
35:29
Speaker 1: just remind everybody what the Ibraham Accords are and what
35:33
Speaker 1: the implications are.
35:34
Speaker 2: Well, basically, the Abrahama Cords were brought in under the
35:37
Speaker 2: first Trump administration by his son in law George Krushner,
35:41
Speaker 2: who we know is also has his eye on waterfront development.
35:45
Speaker 2: Once Gaza, in their strategy, has been fully ethnically clansed
35:52
Speaker 2: and that awful genocidal project of course is ongoing in Gaza,
35:57
Speaker 2: but also in the occupied territories in the West Bank.
36:02
Speaker 2: And effectively, what the Abrahama Cords were is a normalization
36:06
Speaker 2: project to bring the Gulf States in particular into the fold,
36:11
Speaker 2: to normalize Israel, to accept Israel's existence as a state.
36:16
Speaker 2: They include, of course also Morocco. Morocco and the UAE
36:20
Speaker 2: and Sudan, I think were the first countries to normalize
36:24
Speaker 2: with Israel. Saudi Arabia has been basically holding off, partly,
36:30
Speaker 2: I think, because it has a population that on the
36:33
Speaker 2: whole support Palestinian the Bristolian right to a state and
36:38
Speaker 2: to justice and freedom from Israeli occupation. Jordan, of course,
36:44
Speaker 2: is effectively also normalized. Egypt was normalized back in seventy
36:50
Speaker 2: nine with the Camp David Agreement, and is largely of course,
36:56
Speaker 2: I see it very much as the Ukraine of West Asia,
36:58
Speaker 2: because it's so in debt to the Gulf States, to
37:01
Speaker 2: the IMF, to the EU, and even to Israel. The
37:05
Speaker 2: partnership with Israel now is on an industrial scale from
37:09
Speaker 2: an economic and trade perspective, and they look to benefit
37:14
Speaker 2: from the potential of the India Middle East Economic Corridor,
37:18
Speaker 2: which would go from Mumbai through the occupied territory of Palestine.
37:23
Speaker 2: Of course, once in their perspective, once it's ethnically cleansed
37:28
Speaker 2: and destroyed completely and converted into a free trade zone,
37:32
Speaker 2: and then through Egypt to elevation to Europe. So the
37:36
Speaker 2: Abraham Accords was a project to bring particularly what are
37:41
Speaker 2: known as the moderate Sunny States, which are predominantly the
37:45
Speaker 2: Gulf States, into accepting the State of Israel and normalizing
37:52
Speaker 2: completely with the State of Israel. And as you rightly said,
37:56
Speaker 2: following the visit from the US lawmaker Corey Mills put
38:01
Speaker 2: out a statement saying that Jolani, or a meadel Challah
38:05
Speaker 2: as they call him, has no problem with normalizing with
38:10
Speaker 2: Israel in the near future. Angelani himself has been making
38:15
Speaker 2: it very clear that he has no problem with Israel,
38:18
Speaker 2: even with the fact that Israel is occupying news ways
38:23
Speaker 2: of Syrian territory since December twenty twenty four, and he
38:28
Speaker 2: couches it in terminology like we will not allow any
38:33
Speaker 2: entity to attack foreign power from Syrian territory. So, of course,
38:38
Speaker 2: as they said, he's been closing down the Palestinian resistance
38:41
Speaker 2: forces to an ever increasing extent and expelling actually many
38:46
Speaker 2: of the leaders that were formerly inside Syria.
38:50
Speaker 1: But he's not killing them.
38:51
Speaker 2: He is providing, according to reports from inside Syria, he's
38:55
Speaker 2: providing the coordinates of their location to Israel, which is
39:00
Speaker 2: leading to their assassination inside Syria.
39:03
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, well, look, I suppose we're coming to the
39:08
Speaker 1: end here, but I'd like to just go it a
39:10
Speaker 1: little bit deeper into this emerging Syrian resistance. You said
39:14
Speaker 1: they are it's not known where they are necessarily, but
39:17
Speaker 1: they could be across the border somewhere. As are you
39:20
Speaker 1: talking about Lebanon or what where could they be? And
39:23
Speaker 1: where are they getting support from? Are they getting support
39:25
Speaker 1: from Iran?
39:26
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I think you know, as I said,
39:27
Speaker 2: there was something like eighty thousand Syrian Arabamy soldiers who
39:31
Speaker 2: just disappeared after December the A and of course, you
39:34
Speaker 2: know everyone claims they all surrendered and laid down their weapons.
39:38
Speaker 2: We have talked about this on the Syria podcast, that
39:41
Speaker 2: they were betrayed, their command was betrayed, and that ultimately
39:46
Speaker 2: they had no choice but to lay down their weapons
39:49
Speaker 2: and obviously leave. And yes, Lebanon and Iraq of course
39:55
Speaker 2: are areas where there is still an organized resistance to
39:59
Speaker 2: design occupation forces and the imperialist alliance led by the
40:06
Speaker 2: US and the UK in the region, and those forces,
40:09
Speaker 2: while they are receiving assistant from Iran, they are not
40:13
Speaker 2: proxies of Iran. They are resistant forces that were established
40:17
Speaker 2: in those respective countries and who now to a large
40:21
Speaker 2: degree are establishing their independence as resistance forces. And I
40:27
Speaker 2: include Yemen in that. And what we've seen in the
40:31
Speaker 2: last few weeks is said al Huti, who's the leader
40:34
Speaker 2: of Asrulla, the resistance movement that is leading the campaign
40:40
Speaker 2: to close down or to blockade the Red Sea until
40:43
Speaker 2: the Zionists stop their genocide in Palestine and lift the
40:48
Speaker 2: siege on Gaza. And of course now they're having a
40:51
Speaker 2: war waged against them by President Trump to defense Israel
40:56
Speaker 2: and to sustain the genocide in Palestine effectively. But we've
41:01
Speaker 2: seen al Huti come to the four as a leader
41:05
Speaker 2: of the entire resistance, access speaking to Hasbola, speaking to Iraq,
41:10
Speaker 2: speaking even to our resistance forces in Algeria, who are
41:15
Speaker 2: against the state of Israel and pro Palestine. And so
41:19
Speaker 2: therefore what this kind of signifies to me is with
41:23
Speaker 2: the ongoing negotiations between the US and Iran. The resistance
41:28
Speaker 2: are saying a necessity to become as independent as they
41:32
Speaker 2: possibly can be in order to sustain the axis of
41:38
Speaker 2: resistance across the region. And so if those Syrian army
41:43
Speaker 2: forces are in any of these countries and are being
41:46
Speaker 2: trained by the resistance forces in this country in preparation
41:50
Speaker 2: for any kind of operation in Syria, which was, to
41:53
Speaker 2: be honest, was always going to happen. I mean, Syria
41:56
Speaker 2: historically has resisted invasion for the last ten thousand years,
42:02
Speaker 2: even since nineteen forty six when it gained its independence
42:06
Speaker 2: from French. Monday I talked about the seventy five years
42:09
Speaker 2: of attempted regime change by the worst by m six
42:12
Speaker 2: and Cia in an article I wrote about four years ago.
42:15
Speaker 2: And so therefore Syria, you know, it has a history
42:19
Speaker 2: of resisting colonialism and imperialism and Zionist expansionism. It wasn't
42:24
Speaker 2: going to just die after December the eighth. It wasn't
42:27
Speaker 2: just going to go away and not come back. And
42:29
Speaker 2: so I think all of us expected this to happen.
42:33
Speaker 2: What perhaps we didn't expect was that Julani would become
42:37
Speaker 2: as fragile as he is in his leadership so quickly,
42:42
Speaker 2: and you know that in fighting has begun. We've talked
42:45
Speaker 2: many times, Mike abll Is that Kit Kidston's Gangs and
42:48
Speaker 2: Counter Gangs and that is very much what's going on
42:51
Speaker 2: inside Central Syria right now. And so yes, those forces
42:56
Speaker 2: are being supported by the resistance forces in those countries.
43:00
Speaker 2: Whether Iran is playing any part in that, I can't
43:04
Speaker 2: actually say, but I would say that that I guess
43:09
Speaker 2: if you look at who is supporting them, there would
43:12
Speaker 2: most likely be a degree of Iranian support for them.
43:16
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, okay, Frank Kitson by the way, just.
43:19
Speaker 2: To oh sorry, I don't know why I always forget
43:23
Speaker 2: that name.
43:24
Speaker 1: Yes, And if anybody hasn't read Gangs and Counter Gangs,
43:26
Speaker 1: absolutely it is worth. It's available as a PDF. It's
43:30
Speaker 1: worth I read it that to understand some of the
43:33
Speaker 1: because you know, these things are complex, what you've been
43:37
Speaker 1: talking about today, it's complex. It's using names that people
43:42
Speaker 1: won't necessarily be familiar with, and so it's tricky for
43:46
Speaker 1: people to get a handle on exactly what's going on
43:50
Speaker 1: and the kinds of machinations that are going on. But
43:54
Speaker 1: reading that book and kits AND's other works absolutely helps
43:57
Speaker 1: people understand the games that are being played. I find it,
44:01
Speaker 1: you know, hugely cynical, because you know, people are ordinary
44:05
Speaker 1: people as usual are bearing the brunt of these kinds
44:08
Speaker 1: of geopolitical games.
44:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And another person in mind that I want
44:12
Speaker 2: to recommend he sadly passed from cancer very recently, but
44:17
Speaker 2: it is Keith Harmon Snow who wrote extensively about Rwanda
44:22
Speaker 2: and the Congo and Sudan and so on, and I
44:26
Speaker 2: find him very similar to Frank Kidstone, but absolutely essential
44:30
Speaker 2: reading if you are to understand the complexities of the
44:35
Speaker 2: Sohel and the African region generally. Just as we've been
44:39
Speaker 2: talking about kind of the gangs and the countergangs just
44:42
Speaker 2: in Syria, you know, not even getting into Libya and
44:47
Speaker 2: Afghanistan and the rock and so on. I mean it
44:50
Speaker 2: is incredibly common, yeah.
44:52
Speaker 1: Exactly, because we can't forget Sudan. It is they are.
44:56
Speaker 1: There's an ongoing war there which basically gets almost no
45:00
Speaker 1: coverage exactly.
45:01
Speaker 2: And again I mean Keith Amin Snow has extensively covered that,
45:06
Speaker 2: and actually he did it. I think one of his
45:10
Speaker 2: last interviews was with jerm Warfare, And I recommend everybody
45:15
Speaker 2: to listen to that, because it's it's fascinating and I
45:19
Speaker 2: think he had more of an insight than anyone I
45:22
Speaker 2: can think of into exactly the gang's encounter gangs in
45:29
Speaker 2: that region in particular.
45:31
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, well look let's leave it there for today. Vanessa,
45:35
Speaker 1: thank you very much for joining me. It's been a
45:36
Speaker 1: fascinating conversation. We will be doing this again very soon,
45:41
Speaker 1: I'm sure, because nothing is staying static for very long
45:46
Speaker 1: and plenty of development still to come. So thank you
45:51
Speaker 1: for joining me today.
45:52
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Mike, and yeah, we'll definitely be
45:54
Speaker 2: keeping an eye on the development of the British security
45:59
Speaker 2: agencies working inside Syria and because you know, that's something
46:05
Speaker 2: that we all should be aware of.