Latest / Bloomberg Intelligence / SK Hynix Shares Plunge Most on Record in Deepening Korea Selloff

Transcript

SK Hynix Shares Plunge Most on Record in Deepening Korea Selloff · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Switch gears to technology? Why not? Mandy sing joints us here,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: globalhead of tech Research for Bloomberg Intelligence. Lots of ways
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: to go here, man deep, Start with sk Heinex. What
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: did you make of their US listing on Friday? And
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: maybe how that in the stocks trading off today? You know,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: five percent and then traded off pretty I think was
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: it fifteen percent in yeah Korea?
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it costs me down about nine percent on
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: the day.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: What do you make of all that?
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think the data day volatility will be there,
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: and uh, we're kind of going through a phase where
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: everyone is trying to figure out the next leg of
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: this AI infrastructure build out and how the companies would
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: be reporting, especially the hyperscalers. I mean, at the end
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: of the day, everything comes down to the CAPEX numbers
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: for twenty twenty seven and twenty twenty eight, and we'll
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: learn about that when they report earnings, the hyperscalers and
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: you know there is some profit taking right now. But overall,
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: I thought the IPO was well received in terms of
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: you know, the first day bump that we saw in
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: terms of a close and everyone, the long term investors
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: do think this is a multi year cycle for memory names,
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: and even though they are cyclical and there is a
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: fear around peak earnings, I think on the whole, everyone
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: buys into this multi year buildout for AI.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: It feels increasingly like everyone's taking their cue from the
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: COSP from what happens in Korea and that the tail
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: is wiking the dog here is that the case?
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: Man?
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Deep? I mean, when you come in the morning, do
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: you look at what's happening in Korea and say, okay,
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: now I have a better picture of what's going to
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: happen globally because that sets the tone every day.
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: No, I mean, for me, it's just another data point
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: where yeah, I look at the futures, I look at
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: how the markets have reacted, But at the end of
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: the day, there are some data points that weigh a
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: lot more from me, and the hyper scale Capex guide
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: is one of them. And if I know that all
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: these companies are raising their capex for next year, and
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: we're into a thirty year of a seventy percent increase
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: in capex, and if next year is going to be
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: another fifty percent, then there is not much to worry
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: about at least for the next twelve to eighteen months.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Okay, And it looks like some of those hyperscalers really
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: don't report earnings until the end of this month. Next
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: tomorrow we're going to get the big banks reporting. We're
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: also going to hear from TSMC and ASML, two big
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: big names globally. How do you see that kind of
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: filling the vacuum between now and when the hyperscalers do
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: report and give us a better picture of their capex
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: plans for twenty twenty seven and beyond.
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean TSMC reported their monthly number today and
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: you know, we are easily tracking over a forty percent
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: increase or a year over year, and the seasonality was
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: better than expected. So when you look at TSMC's results,
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: which hasn't really used their pricing power like the Memory
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: guys have, so in the case of Memory top line,
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: you see a lot of pricing growth. TSMC, on the
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: other hand, has been a lot more balanced in terms
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: of volume versus pricing. And it's just a question like
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: the durability of TSMC's growth ASML's growth. And all of
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: these Memory guys, whether it's ske Heinex or Micron, have
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: talked about raising their own capex, so that means ASML
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: is a beneficiary of Memory capex. And right now everyone
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: buys into this thesis that you have to keep investing
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: to keep raising their capex just to increase the supply
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: by fifteen twenty percent, and even that would not be sufficient.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: That's what the skehih next cheerman said is we will
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: double our supply through twenty thirty at a kegre of
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: fifteen percent, but we will still be under supplied. So
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: the demand growth will outpace fifteen to twenty percent supply
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: growth that these companies are investing in.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, again, the numbers is blown me away, dude, But
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going to take what you're seeing face value. If
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: I'm a Meta or Google or Amazon, what do I
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: want to put up a big capex forecast or not?
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Where are we in that play?
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: There?
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Does a mark I want to see these guys keep
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: spending or we kind of pass that.
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: I think the market wants to see them spending at
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: the same time show some revenue lift to their top lines.
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: So in the case of Meta and Microsoft and Google,
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: they want to see that cloud business get a bump,
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: the core ads business get a bump from AI, and
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: the AI contribution has to be very clear. So like
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: Google Cloud growth, for example, has surpassed fifty percent. Now
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: expectations why they were growing traditionally Cloud rose growing twenty
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: to twenty five percent. That additional twenty five percent plus
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: growth is coming from AI. So similarly, you want to
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: see that reflected in all the hyperscalers that are reporting
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: that this is the AI portion, and hence we are
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: raising our capex, and I think the market will cheer
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: for that.
• 5:42
  Speaker 6: Stay with us.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Right now, we want to talk about Apple. They're in
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: the courts fighting Open AI regarding intellectual property. It's I
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: don't know it's legal stuff, folks. But let's get to
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: an expert because I'm not really sure what's going on here.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Talent Basin joins us here tech litigation analysts for Bloomberg Intelligence.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: He's based in London. Talent summarize what's going on here
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: with open ai and our good friends at Apple.
• 6:28
  Speaker 6: Yeah, sure, parl Yeah. So this is a intellectual property case,
• 6:31
  Speaker 6: and specifically it's on trade secrets. On trade secrets are
• 6:35
  Speaker 6: sort of the most cloaking dagger form of intellectual property disputes,
• 6:39
  Speaker 6: and sort of reading the complaint over the weekend, that's
• 6:42
  Speaker 6: you know, there's no exception here. So Apple is accusing
• 6:44
  Speaker 6: open Ai of a coordinated orchestrated attempt to gain some
• 6:49
  Speaker 6: of it's proprietary know how relating to making devices for
• 6:54
  Speaker 6: the next iteration of AI rollouts. So they started about
• 6:58
  Speaker 6: a year and a half ago and open ai spent
• 7:02
  Speaker 6: about six point five billion dollars to acquire a companied
• 7:06
  Speaker 6: coyled io. This had been founded by some former Apple executives.
• 7:12
  Speaker 6: One of those executives is now the head of software
• 7:15
  Speaker 6: development at open ai. And what this lawsuit lays out
• 7:18
  Speaker 6: is at various stages where even engineers at Apple were recruited,
• 7:26
  Speaker 6: were asked to bring Apple devices to open AI interviews
• 7:30
  Speaker 6: and to share proprietary information. So what Apple was doing
• 7:34
  Speaker 6: is they have sued, they want an injunction. They want
• 7:36
  Speaker 6: to put a stop to what they see as an
• 7:37
  Speaker 6: attempt to shortcut Open Eyes, attempt to shorten its way
• 7:41
  Speaker 6: into the devices.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: Okay, so lawsuits typically take a long time to get resolved,
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: and of course technology and technological change happens very very quickly.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: What are you thinking about in terms of timeline for
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: any kind of landmark not even decisions, but landmark events
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: in this loss to affect the technology that both sides
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: are working on.
• 8:04
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and that's an excellent point. These cases long often
• 8:07
  Speaker 6: do have long tails to them. However, I think what
• 8:10
  Speaker 6: we're expecting over the next two to three weeks is
• 8:13
  Speaker 6: Apple to file up, follow up with a request for
• 8:16
  Speaker 6: a preliminary injunction. Really, what it's going to ask the
• 8:20
  Speaker 6: court to do is put some guardware else around what
• 8:22
  Speaker 6: it says are as trade secrets, preservations of evidence. So
• 8:26
  Speaker 6: it's going to be probably looking for something in three Q,
• 8:29
  Speaker 6: if not in four Q, for an early ruling on
• 8:32
  Speaker 6: that preliminary injunctioning request, and we do think Apple has
• 8:35
  Speaker 6: a pretty strong argument here. Courts are you know, it's
• 8:39
  Speaker 6: so difficult to pull those trade secrets out of a
• 8:42
  Speaker 6: product if it goes to market. So I think, now
• 8:44
  Speaker 6: no products have shipped yet, I think Apple is going
• 8:47
  Speaker 6: to have a fairly strong chance to get that temporary
• 8:50
  Speaker 6: preliminary injunction probably in the next few months. After that,
• 8:54
  Speaker 6: we're going to have to see you know that there's
• 8:55
  Speaker 6: potentially going to be settlement talks as I go forward,
• 8:59
  Speaker 6: But I think Apple's eyes right now are on getting
• 9:02
  Speaker 6: some near term relief in this.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: How do you think about the employees that have left
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: Apple and gone over to open Ai. What kind of
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: risks did they face?
• 9:12
  Speaker 6: Now, Yeah, a few of them have been named in
• 9:16
  Speaker 6: this lawsuit, and for those name defendants, the risks are
• 9:20
  Speaker 6: very high. So we've seen these litigations play out. Some
• 9:24
  Speaker 6: other high sticks instances are Weaimo, which is Google self
• 9:28
  Speaker 6: driving car division. About five years ago it sued Uber
• 9:32
  Speaker 6: over sort of self driving car technology. The executive there
• 9:36
  Speaker 6: ended up going to jail. This was somebody who left
• 9:39
  Speaker 6: Weimo went to Uber. So the stakes can be pretty high.
• 9:42
  Speaker 6: Right now, there is no criminal component to this case. However,
• 9:45
  Speaker 6: for trade secrets disputes, that can sort of escalate quickly,
• 9:49
  Speaker 6: So I think everybody is going to be a little
• 9:51
  Speaker 6: bit on edge. And it's also interesting because there's such
• 9:53
  Speaker 6: a talent warrant right now, not just between these companies,
• 9:56
  Speaker 6: for all companies trying to gain as much AI talent
• 10:00
  Speaker 6: as possible. So I think we're going to have to
• 10:01
  Speaker 6: see if this has sort of a dampening impact on
• 10:04
  Speaker 6: how much poaching we're seeing in the industry.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: On Wall Street, there's something called garden leave. When you
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: leave one firm for another. There you can't go start
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: work at that new firm for at least six months,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: sometimes longer, to try to preserve some of the corporate
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: in intellectual property from the firm you're leaving. Is there
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: anything like that in technology?
• 10:26
  Speaker 6: Technology is generally pushed back on that, just because sort of,
• 10:29
  Speaker 6: again as pointing out, a lot of the development and
• 10:32
  Speaker 6: this is so fast paced that having an executive having
• 10:36
  Speaker 6: a star engineer sort of sit on our sidelines for
• 10:38
  Speaker 6: six months can be really a disadvantage. So sort of
• 10:41
  Speaker 6: we've seen across the entire tech space is resistance to
• 10:45
  Speaker 6: that sort of garden leave type scenario. We'll see get
• 10:48
  Speaker 6: going forward if firms are more open to implementing that,
• 10:52
  Speaker 6: But so far we've seen a lot of reluctance.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: What does this mean for open aiy's ability to recruit,
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: you know, tech folks from other firms in Silicon Valley.
• 11:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I do think it's a bit of a reputational
• 11:06
  Speaker 6: risk right now. I think until there's more clarity on
• 11:09
  Speaker 6: what's going to happen with this lawsuit. And again, this
• 11:12
  Speaker 6: is not the first time open ai has been sued,
• 11:15
  Speaker 6: so I think there's been a lot of litigation that's
• 11:17
  Speaker 6: attached to it. So I think it probably does over
• 11:19
  Speaker 6: the near term, until there's more clarity, it probably does
• 11:22
  Speaker 6: put a bit of a dampening impact on its ability
• 11:25
  Speaker 6: to go out there and recruit some of the biggest
• 11:27
  Speaker 6: names that it may want.
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: Stay with us.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: When you think about the charging of the EV business,
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: I think of it as still an industry that's in infancy,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: still growing, trying to add capacity. So when I read
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: this kind of surprised me. There has been an increasing
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: number of charging network acquisitions in Europe. Again, I wasn't
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: expecting to see that from this industry at this stage
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: of its life cycle. Ryan Fisher, ev Charging team leader
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: for Bloomberg bn EF, joins us from London. So Ryan,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: we're seeing some consolidation in Europe of the charging business.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: What's going on there?
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so thanks Paul. What we've started to see is
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: a numerous amount of acquisitions that you've kind of got
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: well funded players and then you've got a load of
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: smaller businesses who are trying to stay aflow and they're
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: starting to be acquired. You've also seen some mergers. There's
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: a merger just happened last week between a couple of
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: the biggest providers MR and Evini in largely Scandinavia, where
• 12:44
  Speaker 5: they got some German assets. I think that are also
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: going to be transferred in that deal, which makes them
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: the biggest company. So more and more of them thinking
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: about scale as an opportunity. And obviously you said kind
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: of a surprise maybe difference between what you see in
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: Europe and what you sing in the US within these
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: markets as well.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: So give us a sense of kind of where the
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: charging network in Europe. I don't know if you can
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: call it Europe writ larger or if it's country by country. Again,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: I would say here in the US, I mean just
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: barely a blip on the screen. Talk to us about
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: in your world over in Europe.
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, So there's hundreds of thousands of these things
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: been installed, and often the question is like, oh, I
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: can't buy an EV there's no charges. Well, actually they've
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: been installed at such a pace that utilization has been
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: a bit of a problem for some of these companies,
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: and then the revenues because there's just so many charges
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: for people to choose. So then it becomes like if
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: you're buying a network, like what's actually considered a good network,
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: and some of them have more charges at the site,
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: some of them had these really fast power chargers, and
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: that makes a big difference to like whether you want
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: to buy it. As well as fundamentally, do they actually
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: own the land, and what's the right to expand and
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: have you got good grid connections and all this is
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: coming into play when somebody's fundamentally assessing like do I
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: want to buy this company or not? When you think
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: about the US, it's just so heavily dominated by Tesla's
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: and I think then you've also got all of the
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: policy environment which has affected people's confidence to roll things out.
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: They've got rid of the Navy grants. Obviously, they've got
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: rid of the grants for the actual buying of the
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: vehicles as well. But we are seeing pockets of companies
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: raising money and rolling out and having a bit more
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: interest in preparation for what obviously is a growing fleet.
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: Like sales might be consistent, but the actual fleet of
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: electric vehicles is therefore still growing, and it's somewhat monopolistic.
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: I alluded to a point about Tesla, and I'll just
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: remake that one, so on market share that they own
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: a big portion of the market. You want to go
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: to a fast charger, you're probably going to turn up
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: a Tesla in the US. But weirdly that actually is
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: having some consequences for the market because a lot of
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: the cars are changing to new eight hundred vault platforms,
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: and this means that you can get super fast charging
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: rates that can get you like five ten minutes and
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: you're on the move, whereas the Tesla chargers don't have
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: that higher voltage availability. They've sort of announced it with
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: these V four kind of, but actually they've only installed
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: like ten sites with them. So in a weird way,
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: if you're buying one of these fancy evs in the US,
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: the kind of new platforms, the BMW's and things like that,
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: you can't actually turn up at the Tesla site and
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: get the advertised charging power that they were saying. So
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: Tesla has been the leader, but in some ways having
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: such market share and not having the latest technology, it's
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: a bit of a problem.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's there's one of many here in
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: the US, as you were mentioning here. But how about
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: in Europe? Do I've heard that or I've seen that
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: some of the field distribution centers, to the gas stations,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: the BPS, the shells of the world, how are they
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: adapting to evs and charging.
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they were both pretty big as they were in
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: everything energy transition, and I'd say they pulled back. You've
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: seen that across all energy transition things from many of
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: these oil majors. I'd say they still have activities, though
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: Total is doing a lot in the energy transition at large,
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: but also pretty pretty active, the same as BP and
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: and they're more focused on four courts. But they these
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: companies have quite a big set of offerings for people
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: in the fleet sector, so they want to keep that.
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: So you can don't fill up your company's vehicles with
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: petrol and diesel, what you can fill them up with
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: electricity as well. So they've been involved in the sector
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: pretty heavily, but it can be a little bit difficult.
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: Quite a lot of sites might be franchised across the network,
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: so how do you convert them? And then fundamentally there's
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: just quite a lot of competition. Before you could only
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: fill up your vehicle at a fuel station. Now you
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: can fill up your vehicle if you've got an electric
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: one at home, so that cuts the market. Then you've
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: got all of these like supermarkets and stuff coming in.
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: So in the US I think Walmart has rolled out
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: pretty heavily. A good example in the UK Sainsbury's, which
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: is a pretty big supermarket over here, and what they've
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: managed to do is say, okay, something like twenty five
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: percent of evs that turn up are now actually charging
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: on the sainsbury sites, and they offer pretty cheap charging
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: so these oil and gas majors have got a lot
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: of competition, and the competition, like the supermarket, is offering
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: quite cheap charging as well. It's a big, big threat,
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: I would say for some of those, even if they
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: are still involved.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: and always on the Bloomberg terminal