Latest / Prophecy Watchers / What REALLY Happened Before Genesis 1:2? | Donna Howell | Repost

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What REALLY Happened Before Genesis 1:2? | Donna Howell | Repost · Prophecy Watchers

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Gary Stearman and this is Prophecy Watchers. Today
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Speaker 1: we have a very special guest who has written a
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Speaker 1: very special book. It's called Before Genesis. The author, Donna Howell,
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Speaker 1: and she's by the way an excellent writer. Very gifted
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Speaker 1: with words and I do not say that lightly. I
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Speaker 1: have read this book and believe me it's been a trip.
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Speaker 1: And the title is Before Genesis. And the little subtitle
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Speaker 1: here is, I have to read this, The Unauthorized History
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Speaker 1: of Tohu Bohu and the Chaos Dragon in the Land
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Speaker 1: Before Time. That sort of on a minuscule level tells
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Speaker 1: the story. But I've read the book. You, I can tell,
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Speaker 1: were really driven to make several points. But what's the
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Speaker 1: big point that this book makes? It's called Before Genesis.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 3: I think the central focus of this book, and I'll
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Speaker 3: explain in two steps here. The first focus of this
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Speaker 3: book was to address what is going on in Genesis 1.
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Speaker 3: In that we have a very ancient enemy of God
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Speaker 3: that throughout Ezekiel and Isaiah and all of the other
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Speaker 3: places has risen up against God. And something happened very
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Speaker 3: early on in that one moment of the verse of
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Speaker 3: Genesis 1, 1 and 1, 2, where we read that
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Speaker 3: the earth was without form and void. That is coordinate
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Speaker 3: with judgment. Now, without getting into the grammar, as the
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Speaker 3: book very, very well does, get into the grammar of
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Speaker 3: without form and void, what those Hebrew words are, where
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Speaker 3: it comes from. What happened in that state? What occurred?
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Speaker 3: Who were the key players? And what does that mean
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Speaker 3: for humanity? But mostly, and this is why I said
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Speaker 3: the answer was twofold. At the end of the day,
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Speaker 3: you don't normally think, how old is the earth? You
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Speaker 3: don't normally think that question leads to Jesus. But if
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Speaker 3: a person looks in the world, the world is telling
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Speaker 3: people that mankind came from monkeys and that all this
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Speaker 3: Darwinian type science and the science of radiocarbon dating and
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Speaker 3: all of that thing, then you have the church's response,
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Speaker 3: which is typically, a young Earth response, in that the
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Speaker 3: Earth is approximately 6,000 to 10,000 years old, or that's
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Speaker 3: their claim. And then you have the old Earth creationist side,
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Speaker 3: which says, no, it actually is a very old planet,
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Speaker 3: but 6,000 to 10,000 years ago, there was a restoration
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Speaker 3: that occurred with that planet. So that's what the book
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Speaker 3: is about, is to try to identify the key players,
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Speaker 3: the serpent, the ancient serpent, or the nakash in the garden,
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Speaker 3: this planet. This thing that we see in the, as
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Speaker 3: the cartoons told me, so it's a snake slithered up
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Speaker 3: a tree, but it's who he is, what he did.
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Speaker 3: This is a much more complicated and well-rounded story. And
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Speaker 3: once you can make Genesis relevant to the world, then
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Speaker 3: Genesis 3.15 gets relevant. And the promissory note from God
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Speaker 3: of the coming Messiah, Jesus gets relevant fast. In the
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Speaker 3: time of Galileo, There was a big mistake that the
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Speaker 3: church made in the time of Galileo. And without getting
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Speaker 3: into parsing all the details of geocentrism and heliocentrism, basically
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Speaker 3: what the argument was at the time was that the
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Speaker 3: church said the Earth was at the center of the
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Speaker 3: universe and everything rotated around it. Galileo, he brought out
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Speaker 3: a telescope and said, I can show you proof that
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Speaker 3: that's not really what was going on. And that it
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Speaker 3: was the sun was at the center of the universe
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Speaker 3: and everything rotated around it. when the church was in
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Speaker 3: that phase, they called anybody a heretic that wouldn't believe
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Speaker 3: the earth was at the center. And this came from
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Speaker 3: the Psalms that the Lord had established the earth, that
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Speaker 3: it could not be moved. So they took that literally.
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Speaker 3: And they, there was this whole 300 year period of
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Speaker 3: time where anybody that believed in the science of Galileo's day,
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Speaker 3: was a heretic. So there were a lot of people
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Speaker 3: that said, I can't even take the Bible seriously. By
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Speaker 3: the testimony of my own eyes, I can look through
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Speaker 3: a telescope and see the planets are rotating around the
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Speaker 3: sun and not the other way around. So if the
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Speaker 3: Bible insists on saying that the earth is at the center,
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Speaker 3: then I can't believe in the Bible. See how it
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Speaker 3: suddenly very quickly in Genesis becomes an evangelistic opportunity. When
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Speaker 3: Genesis can be explained, when Genesis is relevant, Jesus gets
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Speaker 3: important fast.
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Speaker 1: I think man is still kind of in a growing stage.
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Speaker 1: You talked about going back to the days of the
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Speaker 1: Middle Ages and then on up toward the modern era.
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Speaker 1: There were great arguments about the cosmos and where man
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Speaker 1: fit into the cosmos and the invention of the telescope
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Speaker 1: and so forth caused a lot of conversation. We're still
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Speaker 1: in that argument in a way. We still have people
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Speaker 1: believing that the earth was populated by citizens from other
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Speaker 1: galaxies or whatever. Which is not what the Bible says
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Speaker 1: at all. The man was created in the garden. Satan
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Speaker 1: was essentially the grand ruler of planet earth. And I
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Speaker 1: think he took it upon himself to be like God.
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Speaker 1: In fact, that's well represented in scripture. And that story
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Speaker 1: comes to life in your book before Genesis. Again, you
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Speaker 1: mentioned the Garden of Eden and Satan coming into the
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Speaker 1: Garden of Eden and tempting the woman and when he
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Speaker 1: came he had already fallen.
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Speaker 3: Right, and when you look at what happened in Genesis 6,
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Speaker 3: now I won't launch off into a big long thing
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Speaker 3: about the Nephilim, but when you look at what the
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Speaker 3: nature of the enemy of God is being portrayed in
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Speaker 3: Genesis 6, we have that the fallen angels under the
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Speaker 3: guidance of the enemy of God, they interbred with human
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Speaker 3: women and they created an offspring of these bizarre Nephilims
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Speaker 3: that became the giants, the men of renown. Well, look,
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Speaker 3: look at that right there. You can see the nature
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Speaker 3: of the enemy of God in this narrative is to
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Speaker 3: take something that God created and to destroy it.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 3: Well, why does that that narrative in Genesis 6 have
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Speaker 3: to be the first time that he did such a thing.
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Speaker 1: Exactly.
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Speaker 3: So back up to the era of the fossils, you've
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Speaker 3: got dinosaurs, you've got these things that we find in
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Speaker 3: the ground, the Darwinian monkey men, you've got all kinds
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Speaker 3: of creations that are extinct. Does it necessarily have to
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Speaker 3: point to evolution every time?
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Speaker 1: And of course not. We are creationists. But the creation
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Speaker 1: is much more complicated than is usually thought. In other words,
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Speaker 1: it involves several things from the revolutionary activities of the
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Speaker 1: fallen ones led by Satan to the events of, if
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Speaker 1: you will, getting things back on an even keel after
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Speaker 1: the revolution, which is what the Bible's all about. Because
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Speaker 1: you still have the ruler of darkness and his principality's
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Speaker 1: powers and rulers of heavenly places making trouble as they
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Speaker 1: have now for thousands of years. How did that start?
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Speaker 1: This story before Genesis I think is very valuable because
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Speaker 1: it documents how all this revolutionary activity started. Right, correct.
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Speaker 3: And what became of the earth after God kiboshed that
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Speaker 3: entire plan. And that's when it gets really interesting. Some
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Speaker 3: of these ancient sites like Gobekli Tepe and Ikarahan Tepe.
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Speaker 3: They have serpent worship all throughout them. We mentioned that
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Speaker 3: prior when we spoke prior. Who was here during the
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Speaker 3: era of the fossils, the era of the without form
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Speaker 3: and void, right? Who was here? Who built these places?
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Speaker 1: And again, I must say you have documented very well
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Speaker 1: that history and the ongoing search for, if you will,
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Speaker 1: the truth. Of course, we Scripture is the truth. And
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Speaker 1: our Lord is called the way, the truth, and the life.
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Speaker 1: And Christians have the truth if they will only study
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Speaker 1: it and very carefully analyze it. We have everything we
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Speaker 1: need to understand the truth, but some of it is
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Speaker 1: kind of hard to get at. In other words it
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Speaker 1: requires some research, some digging, some if you will, complex
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Speaker 1: logic at times, which is why men have argued about
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Speaker 1: the subject of this book. It's not an easy subject.
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Speaker 1: It's complex.
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Speaker 3: Well, even some of the things that we consider to
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Speaker 3: be constants, if you look at like Barry Sutterfield's research
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Speaker 3: and how the speed of light has had variables, it
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Speaker 3: has started to speed up and then slow down and
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Speaker 3: all these things. We think we can measure distance space
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Speaker 3: time with our human sciences and have a, put your
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Speaker 3: thumb on it and crush it down answer. That's the
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Speaker 3: bottom line. We think we can do that. But when
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Speaker 3: we look at the fact that first of all, God
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Speaker 3: does not operate and has never operated within our time
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Speaker 3: space continuum. He has never been limited by how we
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Speaker 3: see or measure time and space. So we want to
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Speaker 3: put some measurable calculable number on it. The earth is
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Speaker 3: X number of years old. Whether you're an old earth
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Speaker 3: creationist or a young earth creationist, we get into those
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Speaker 3: arguments and at the end of the day, it's God's
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Speaker 3: timing anyway. Nothing is as constant as we want to
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Speaker 3: pretend that it is. So, is the earth young or
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Speaker 3: is it old?
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Speaker 2: Yes.
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Speaker 3: There's evidence that shows something very dramatic happened approximately six
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Speaker 3: to ten thousand years ago.
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Speaker 1: We're talking to Donna Howell, author of Before Genesis. Let's
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Speaker 1: We're back with Donna Howell, author of this book, Before Genesis,
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Speaker 1: and again the subtitle, The Unauthorized History of Tohu, Bohu,
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Speaker 1: and the Chaos Dragon in the Land Before Time. I
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Speaker 1: love the subtitle. The Land Before Time.
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Speaker 3: Well, thank you very much.
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Speaker 1: This book is extremely well done. In fact, your documentation
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Speaker 1: is way head and shoulders above most books that I
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Speaker 1: have reviewed.
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Speaker 3: Thank you.
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Speaker 1: Before Genesis. It really documents the story of the fall
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Speaker 1: of Satan and the history of the earth. And I
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Speaker 1: have to say again, this subject is being debated as
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Speaker 1: we speak. Right here in the church age there's still
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Speaker 1: disagreement about how the ancient earth developed, proceeded, how it fell,
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Speaker 1: how it was rebuilt, or whether it was rebuilt. Some
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Speaker 1: people say no, it was made in the creation week
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Speaker 1: and that was that and there was nothing before. But
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Speaker 1: you say no, wait a minute, there was something before, right?
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Speaker 3: Yeah. The Era of the Fossils. And if you actually
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Speaker 3: look at that particular era, the without form and void era,
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Speaker 3: also known as the Era of the Fossils, called that
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Speaker 3: by George H. Pember, who wrote Earth's Earliest Ages. he
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Speaker 3: looks at the same era of time and says, you
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Speaker 3: know what, Darwinian monkey men and all of the dinosaurs
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Speaker 3: and everything that has been lost to Earth's history that
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Speaker 3: comes from that time. When you look at what happened
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Speaker 3: at the dinosaurs, you know that the etymology is interesting
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Speaker 3: behind the word dinosaur. It comes from the Greek words
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Speaker 3: meaning terribly great lizard.
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Speaker 1: And the Tyrannosaurus is a very obvious name, too. Right.
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Speaker 1: It's a terrible lizard.
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Speaker 3: Right.
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Speaker 1: Tyrant.
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Speaker 3: But even science, see even our secular sciences, they have
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Speaker 3: no skin in the game on older or young earth creationism.
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Speaker 3: They even say something happened to the dinosaurs in the
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Speaker 3: beginning because originally dinosaurs were about the size of a
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Speaker 3: German shepherd and they probably were herbivores. So What happened?
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Speaker 3: Did God create the original dinosaur? Do we even know
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Speaker 3: what those were? Do we even know what the original
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Speaker 3: reptilian dinosaur being would have been if God had created
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Speaker 3: them to be, if they wouldn't have been destroyed by
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Speaker 3: somebody who came in and said, I want to warp
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Speaker 3: the DNA of this thing. And who do we peg
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Speaker 3: that on? Luciferian order of the original, original Luciferian order
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Speaker 3: of the earth.
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Speaker 1: You know, as you're talking, I'm thinking to myself, we
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Speaker 1: live in a time of revolution. So the communist revolution,
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Speaker 1: you know, the Nazi revolution, there were the Italian and
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Speaker 1: the Spanish revolutions, the Chinese revolution. We live in a
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Speaker 1: revolutionary planet where people are rushing in, trying to take
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Speaker 1: power for the common good. In other words, Hitler thought,
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Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to create a paradise on planet Earth.
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Speaker 1: I don't have to tell you what happened. Everybody knows
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Speaker 1: what kind of paradise they created. But the model for
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Speaker 1: all of that, it really is a biblical model because
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Speaker 1: the ultimate revolutionary was Satan himself. The old dragon who said,
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Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to be like the most high.
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Speaker 1: And there's that quotation in the Bible. That would be great.
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Speaker 1: I'm going to be just like God. And by the way,
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Speaker 1: when I steal God's power and I'm the top guy...
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Speaker 1: I'm going to create a better planet. It's going to
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Speaker 1: be a lot better than it is right now. Well, basically,
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Speaker 1: he's the model for every dictator on planet Earth. He
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Speaker 1: simply did it before everybody else. Right. And that's kind
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Speaker 1: of the thesis of the book. Right. Before Genesis. Right.
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Speaker 3: And essentially the Luciferian spirit doesn't really change. It continues forward.
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Speaker 3: It gets presented by different dictators and different politicians throughout time.
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Speaker 3: But the spirit always traces back to this moment where
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Speaker 3: he fell and destroyed it and destroyed the paradise that
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Speaker 3: God had made. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: And your book then goes a little extra step. I've
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Speaker 1: read quite a few books on this subject, by the way,
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Speaker 1: and there's there are many of them written, most of
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Speaker 1: them from a grammatical point of view. They're talking about history,
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Speaker 1: And a very close reading of the Hebrew to understand
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Speaker 1: exactly what those Hebrew words mean in Genesis 1, 1, 2,
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Speaker 1: and 3 to try to unscramble the history that came
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Speaker 1: before the creation of man, if any. And there's an
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Speaker 1: argument on the other side that says nothing happened in
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Speaker 1: Genesis 1, 1 or 1, 2. But then others have
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Speaker 1: come along and said, no, wait just a minute. There
17:50
Speaker 1: was a long period of time expressed in the first
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Speaker 1: couple of verses of Genesis, and then before the creation
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Speaker 1: of man and the Garden of Eden and so forth,
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Speaker 1: because when Satan came into the Garden, he had obviously
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Speaker 1: already fallen. When did that happen, and what was the consequence?
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Speaker 1: And that's a huge question. It's huge. And laden with detail.
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Speaker 1: Your book is a testimony to that, by the way.
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Speaker 1: the most well-documented book I think I've ever read.
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Speaker 3: Thank you very much.
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Speaker 1: Your footnotes are, what can I say? We're talking to
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Speaker 1: Donna Howell, and again, she's had a lot of conversations
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Speaker 1: with her father, Dr. Tom Horn, and I would like
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Speaker 1: to have been sitting there while you two were talking,
18:38
Speaker 1: putting this book together.
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Speaker 3: It's so funny that you say that, because the When
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Speaker 3: we originally sat down to figure out the outline, he
18:46
Speaker 3: continued to go back to the conversations that he had
18:48
Speaker 3: had with you. For many, many years, Gary and I
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Speaker 3: have been talking, and Gary says, and this is Gary's theory,
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Speaker 3: and he bounced off a lot of the conversations that
18:58
Speaker 3: the two of you had had in order to come
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Speaker 3: up with this outline, including the fifth watcher theory, the
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Speaker 3: idea that Lucifer or Satan was the representative of the
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Speaker 3: reptilian or the serpentine species. And that when he fell,
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Speaker 3: all of creation fell with him that was under his
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Speaker 3: jurisdiction in the creation order. So dinosaurs and lizards and
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Speaker 3: all of that, essentially when we look at what could
19:27
Speaker 3: have been recreated approximately 6,000 to 10,000 years ago during
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Speaker 3: the time of Adam... God brought back what he might
19:34
Speaker 3: have originally intended. This is why we have geckos and
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Speaker 3: little lizards and things like that, but we don't see dinosaurs.
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Speaker 1: You know, we live in an exciting time, unlike any other.
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Speaker 1: Everybody's saying Jesus is coming soon right now. I mean,
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Speaker 1: I've never heard so many people say that. And they
19:52
Speaker 1: must have a clue somewhere that he's coming sooner. They
19:56
Speaker 1: wouldn't be saying all that. In other words, we're living
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Speaker 1: in times as described in the Bible. And guess what
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Speaker 1: these times are? They are times of revolution. And there's
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Speaker 1: going to be a huge revolution when the Antichrist comes.
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Speaker 1: He's going to be the ultimate revolutionary. He's actually patterned
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Speaker 1: like the fallen one himself. He's kind of replaying on
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Speaker 1: a lesser scale what happened when Satan fell. And guess
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Speaker 1: who's guiding him in his work? If the Antichrist is
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Speaker 1: around today, which he could well be, we don't know
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Speaker 1: who he is of course, he's being coached by the
20:35
Speaker 1: original rebel, right?
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Speaker 3: I agree with that completely. Son of Satan entirely, yes.
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Speaker 1: And so essentially this book that you've written is a
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Speaker 1: prelude to the ultimate revolution and that's going to be
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Speaker 1: the final one. The beautiful part about that is that
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Speaker 1: the Antichrist revolution will be the last one and after
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Speaker 1: that there will be a new heavens and a new
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Speaker 1: earth and it's going to be a paradise and I
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Speaker 1: want to be there.
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Speaker 3: A return to what God had actually intended.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Agreed.
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Speaker 1: Now, you really should read before Genesis. And here's how
21:13
Speaker 1: you can get a copy of this book.
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Speaker 2: For many years, the age of the earth has prompted
21:19
Speaker 2: some heated discussions. Some insist the earth is 6,000 years old,
21:25
Speaker 2: but God never shared that information with Moses. Up until
21:28
Speaker 2: 100 years ago, many dispensationalists believed that the earth was
21:33
Speaker 2: very old. well-known scholars like C.I. Schofield, Lewis Sperry Chafer,
21:39
Speaker 2: and Clarence Larkin among them. But everything changed when evolution
21:44
Speaker 2: entered our public school system. The evangelical community adopted the
21:49
Speaker 2: young earth theory as a way to combat evolutionary theory.
21:54
Speaker 2: Relying on the intricacies of the Hebrew language, dispensationalists continue
21:58
Speaker 2: to teach what some have called the gap theory. suggesting
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Speaker 2: an unknown period of time between Genesis 1-1 and 1-2.
22:07
Speaker 2: Has today's church swept the rebellious history of Lucifer under
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Speaker 2: the rug? We believe that the history of Satan goes
22:15
Speaker 2: far back into the ancient past, when he was a one-of-a-kind,
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Speaker 2: beautiful angel who once surrounded the throne of God. The
22:24
Speaker 2: angelic rebellion he orchestrated left a rift in heaven that
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Speaker 2: exists to this day. Lucifer was the first sinner, not
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Speaker 2: Adam or Eve. He brought sin into our world from
22:36
Speaker 2: another dimension when he arrived in the garden to tempt
22:40
Speaker 2: the first couple, who never had a chance against their
22:43
Speaker 2: deceitful adversary. But the fall of Lucifer created our need
22:48
Speaker 2: for a Savior. The books of Ezekiel and Isaiah contain
22:52
Speaker 2: some little-known clues about Lucifer, prompting some questions that are
22:56
Speaker 2: difficult to answer. Was Satan a murderer from the beginning?
23:01
Speaker 2: When did he practice corrupt trade? When did he refuse
23:05
Speaker 2: to release his prisoners? And what right did he have
23:08
Speaker 2: to offer Jesus all the kingdoms of the world? You're
23:12
Speaker 2: going to find the answers in Before Genesis. We don't
23:17
Speaker 2: believe in evolution or a previous human creation made in
23:21
Speaker 2: the image of God, but we believe there's an angelic
23:24
Speaker 2: backstory to creation. No book covers it quite like Donna
23:29
Speaker 2: and Tom's well-researched effort. We have a special offer today.
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Speaker 2: When you order Before Genesis for your gift of $ 35
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23:46
Speaker 2: deep state. And we'll ship these two books to you
23:50
Speaker 2: for free anywhere in the USA. We'll also include a
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Speaker 2: special DVD on life before Adam and Eve with prophecy
23:58
Speaker 2: experts Jack Langford and Pastor Larry Ollison. Visit our website
24:03
Speaker 2: at prophecywatchers.tv or call the toll-free number on your screen.
24:08
Speaker 2: For our international friends, please know that all prices listed
24:12
Speaker 2: are in U.S. dollars and additional shipping fees may apply.
24:16
Speaker 2: As always, Prophecy Watchers covers the subjects you'll probably never
24:20
Speaker 2: hear about in church, digging deeper into God's word, searching
24:24
Speaker 2: for the truth. Join us next week for another exciting
24:28
Speaker 2: look into the future. If you haven't heard yet, Prophecy
24:33
Speaker 2: Watchers has taken a major step in bringing you all
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Speaker 2: the latest news from the fascinating world of Bible prophecy.
24:40
Speaker 2: After all, who doesn't want to know what the prophets
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Speaker 2: of the Bible have to say about what's going to
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Speaker 2: happen in the future? On January 1st, we launched our
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Speaker 2: first Substack page. a one-stop shop where you can go
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Speaker 2: for all the latest news, articles, videos, prophecy conferences, Q
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25:32
Speaker 1: Well we're back with author Donna Howell. And we have
25:36
Speaker 1: a little over three minutes Donna to sort of put
25:39
Speaker 1: the cap on this narrative before Genesis. Let me ask you,
25:45
Speaker 1: why did you do this? This is a lot of work.
25:49
Speaker 3: My personal motivation, earlier we had talked about the time
25:53
Speaker 3: of Galileo and how we lost some folks in that
25:57
Speaker 3: time because they said, I can see with my own
26:00
Speaker 3: eyes and science says that this heliocentric model that the
26:05
Speaker 3: sun is at the center of the universe, that that
26:07
Speaker 3: is what reality is. And when the church said, if
26:10
Speaker 3: you believe that, then you can't believe the Bible, the
26:14
Speaker 3: two became separate and incompatible. Well, the truth of the
26:17
Speaker 3: matter is, if you ask yourself two questions, two questions.
26:20
Speaker 3: Number one, did God create the earth? A professing Christian
26:23
Speaker 3: would say yes. Number two, did God write the Bible
26:26
Speaker 3: through the guidance of the Holy Spirit? A professing Christian
26:29
Speaker 3: would say yes to that as well. If God created
26:31
Speaker 3: the world and he did, and if God also wrote
26:34
Speaker 3: the Bible and he did, then finding a harmonious thread
26:38
Speaker 3: between those two things is nothing short of an act
26:42
Speaker 3: of worship. We should stop assuming that just by observing science,
26:47
Speaker 3: and I'm not saying all science is correct, obviously. Science,
26:51
Speaker 3: air quotes. I'm not saying that all science is correct,
26:55
Speaker 3: but just simply observing that science, the observation of God's
26:59
Speaker 3: planet and the Bible together, they can't contradict. They came
27:03
Speaker 3: from the same maker. They belong to the same master
27:05
Speaker 3: scientist anyway. So- In this world, right now, there is
27:10
Speaker 3: a young generation of scientifically minded people. Nothing wrong with
27:14
Speaker 3: observing science, but when it replaces God, science becomes your God.
27:18
Speaker 3: And there's a young wave of people that are becoming
27:21
Speaker 3: more secularly minded every day, thinking that the Bible is irrelevant.
27:24
Speaker 3: If the Bible is irrelevant in Genesis, then the Bible
27:29
Speaker 3: is irrelevant in Genesis 3.15 when God says Jesus is coming.
27:34
Speaker 1: Donna Howell, who has spent an enormous amount of time
27:37
Speaker 1: and effort writing before Genesis. And I just want to
27:43
Speaker 1: thank you for being here today and sharing with our audience.
27:46
Speaker 1: I just wish they could kind of go through the
27:50
Speaker 1: entire book because there's a lot more than we talked about, right?
27:54
Speaker 3: It goes on and on, yes. It's a very meaty book.
27:59
Speaker 1: I'm Gary Stearman and this is Prophecy Watchers. Hey, You
28:04
Speaker 1: keep watching. We are.
28:08
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Speaker 2: with the message of Bible prophecy. Thank you again, and
28:28
Speaker 2: until next time, keep watching and
28:30
Speaker 1: Keep looking up.