Latest / De Leeslampjes / Arno Olislagers over Niemand zit graag in het donker | Leven en werken in een leefgroep

Transcript

Arno Olislagers over Niemand zit graag in het donker | Leven en werken in een leefgroep · De Leeslampjes

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hello, dear book lovers.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: I'm Julia, and today we're doing something a little different.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: I think our Dutch-speaking authors are getting too little attention.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Their exciting and touching stories earn more.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: That's why I let the light shine on another author
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: in every episode. Because nobody likes to be in the dark,
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: but we all know that. Today Arno is in the
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: interrogation chair and he reveals all his secrets. Together with Arno,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I work as a lifeguard at Ter Heijden. Arno wrote
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: his first.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Book last year and used our lifeguard as an inspiration.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: He is not only a super workforce for us handsome
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: athletes and very modest, but also an author. I think
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: he wrote this intro himself.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Right Arno?
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: Liar. Completely liar.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Welcome to De Leeslampjes.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Thank you. So, Arno, what is your book about? It's
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: about Jelle, a teenager who experiences.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: An accident and ends up in an institution for people with.
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: A serious and simple disability, a bit like where we work,
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: of course. And I wrote it entirely from his I-person.
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: All the tricks that he experiences on a day in
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: that institution, you get that with you. What is it
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: like to sit in a wheelchair and be completely, well,
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: almost completely paralyzed, because he is as good as paralyzed.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: But besides that, it's also a normal story, a exciting story,
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: because there is something going on with And little by
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: little you come.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: To know what really happened.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: And I got the inspiration from the real things that
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: we experience at work.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: And I wrote a fictional story about that.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: And what inspired you to write your book from your youth?
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Because that comes from somewhere, I assume. I have a
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: few books.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: Normally people could only say one, but it's my show,
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: so I do what I want.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: Of course.
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: And the books that I read as a child are
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: those of Harry Potter. I think everyone from my generation,
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: we have already said it a few times in this podcast,
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: but I have to say that I haven't read that
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: much in my youth because I have dyslexia.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: And it's a shame, because reading was always a struggle
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: for me, especially in primary school.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: You had to reach that AVI level.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: I think I got it on the fly, but I
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: know you had some problems with that.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: So it was a struggle to read fast enough, I
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: would say. Was that not so pleasant?
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: Or was it, I mean, I couldn't be busy with
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: the story, which I really liked to be busy with. So,
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: especially Harry Potter, I'll call it. But after that, through, yes,
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: I have.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: A follow-up education, literary writing in Hasselt, at the academy.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: You know that.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: And there I actually started reading a lot again. And
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: I brought a book with me. that was also an
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: inspiration to write the.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: Story of Niemand Zit Graag in het Donker.
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: Because I knew I wanted to make a character like
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: one of our guests. So completely turned around, he's stuck
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: on a chair and he looks around. who thinks about everything.
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: So I started looking for existing books. And then you
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: come across Jeroen Brouwers. I don't know if you know him.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: Probably not. He's one of the biggest Dutch-speaking writers. He
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: passed away not so long ago. I think he was
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: from Maastricht. He wrote Client E. Busken.
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: It's about someone who lives in a nursing home.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: He's a demented man.
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: He also looks at the world from his own point
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: of view.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: There are long descriptions.
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: I remember a piece of paper on the ground that
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: he described very poetically. You have to be a reader
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: to appreciate it. It's not a thriller where we look
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: for the killer. I don't want to compare myself to
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: that man, because he's of course the Dutch top.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: Although, yes, I'm almost like that. No, no, no.
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: But it's not the same way, but you can put
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: it a little bit next to it. It's also someone
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: who has completely turned.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: Into himself, I would say.
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: And who looks at the world like that.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Also very interesting.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Now, you were just talking about your academy. So did
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: you actually study or write?
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: Yes, I've always been busy with stories and everything that
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: comes around.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: I also went to film school.
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: You know that too, because for the people, that's also
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: my sister-in-law. We work together, we are brother and sister-in-law.
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: So we know each other pretty well. Sometimes she asks
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: a question for the form, but she already knows the answer.
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: But that doesn't matter.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: I also have to stay interesting.
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: So on Tuesday, why I always ask for free time
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: on Tuesday evening at work, is to go to the
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: Kunstacademie van Hassel to write there. to follow up with
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: Beatrice Peters, who is a very good and nice lecturer,
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: who also wrote books.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Herself, of course.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: They are here.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: Ah, okay. She is also an author and a professional editor.
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: She has worked for a lot of publishers and states.
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: So it's really a course where you learn to write.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: When you start there, you're not like, well, I'm not.
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: Are you aware of how much you can look at
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: it and from a perspective?
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: How do you build your character? It's a profession.
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: If I hadn't followed it, I wouldn't have been able
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: to do it at that level. I have the feeling
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: that you really need it. You have to have a
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: lot of talent, or have read a lot yourself, and
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: have learned to read it yourself. Or you have to
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: follow something, because otherwise.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, so.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: It's not like I'm writing a story.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: And bam, voila, here's a book.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: No, that's not how it goes. Then you also see
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: it in the quality. So I'm convinced of that. That's
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: why I dare to come out with that book. I'm
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: convinced that it's quite qualitative.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: Yes, I think so.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: Because, to sum it up, I was nominated for the
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: Literary Parel.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: That's a writing competition in three categories.
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: Unfortunately, I didn't win any of the three, but I
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: was nominated, so that means.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: At least it has a certain level. Without being arrogant.
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: As a non-reader, I found it very interesting.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: You read it? Yes, because I never read.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: It's the first book that interested me.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: Maybe because I'm in the field.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: But the story.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I found it very endearing. It's not that I can
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: read well or fast. I thought it was interesting, and you.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Wanted to know what followed. So it worked out very well,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: in my opinion.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: How did you come up with the idea to write
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: a book about it?
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: In the third year of that course, you were asked
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: to write a novel, an ending work.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: The training consists of, in the first year it's mostly theory,
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: in the second year also, and you write short pieces
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: in which you learn to write sensibly, for example, that
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: you have to use smell and taste and.
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: Whatever you want.
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: But at the end of the third year, it was
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: really the intention of, you are now going to write
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: a story as a final work. And we had to
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: look for a quote that would inspire us at the
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: beginning of that year.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: And I had Michael R. Roskamp.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: You're not going to know that either, but there's a
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: very famous, in the meantime, in Hollywood and such, an
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: author from Sint-Truiden. No, not an author, sorry, a director.
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: Someone who makes films, actually. From Sint-Truiden, who made Rundskop.
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: And I once heard him say somewhere, you have to
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: start filming what you know. And I thought, oh yes,
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: then that might also apply to writing. You have to
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: write what you know. And with that quote, I then...
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: I went there and thought I can do a lot
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: of details and I have a lot of knowledge without
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: research to do about how such a life group works
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: and what happens there. So that was actually also very
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: easy and it was up to the hand to do
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: something with it. Around that time, you were also there,
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: one of our guests died.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: And we were All around his bed.
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: I'm going to tell you, I'm not really explaining what
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: happens in the book. Because it's not really that everything,
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: that the reality is literally in that book.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: It's inspired by it.
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: I thought it was so beautiful that those guests, we
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: call our residents, we call them guests.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: I don't know why we call them guests, because they
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: live there.
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: It's a bit weird, but that's a term that is
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: used with us on the road. And I thought it
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: was so beautiful that we all got up at night.
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: In the middle of the night, we as staff were
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: standing around in his bed to say goodbye to Jan.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: And I thought, that's so beautiful here. That's such a
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: beautiful job, such a beautiful world in which we work.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: And many people don't know that.
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: Because it's also something that's in the foreword of the book,
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: and what I also usually tell when I have to
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: talk about it. If you hear about healthcare and read
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: in the media, when it comes to healthcare, it's usually
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: about rest homes.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: Like a health center. Or hospitals.
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: So we're not that well known.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: And I thought, that's something nice to bring out. People
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: with a... Yes, that's true. There's not much to be
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: told about us.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Our branch of healthcare is.
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: A bit understated. Yes, our age group is also very
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: much in.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: Need of healthcare.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: We are actually a special group within the organization itself.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: How would you describe our guests?
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: I describe ourselves as a family of ten children.
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: I always say that. I'm sorry to interrupt. No, it
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: doesn't matter. We're a family.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: We're a family and we take care of everything.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, everything. Our daily lives.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: Everything.
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: You have to imagine that... To get an idea of
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: our people, we'll start with their level. In terms of level,
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: it's also quite diverse. I think they used to have
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: more of the same level, in terms of intelligence, cognitively,
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: I would say. But now it's quite variable, because we're
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: dealing with people.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: Like Jelle in our book.
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: We have two of them who actually have a NHH,
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: a non-born brain injury. And it's very difficult to tell
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: which age.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: Level they have.
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: So that could be 16 years old, 17 years old.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: Is that the moment that they have done that accident?
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: Do they have that intellect or does it fall back?
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: You don't really know. But let's say that they have
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: an adult intellect or an adult way of dealing with it.
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: But we also have people who really work on a basal,
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: baby level. You know it too. But also babysitter, nanny.
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: So actually a bit in between. Yes, one group between
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: 0 and 4 years old, and then a few adults
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: who are probably more mature, but you don't know that well.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: And those people often sit in a wheelchair. They can
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: sometimes move their arm a bit, or with their foot indeed,
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: push that wheelchair forward a bit, or make one or
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: the other sign with their eyes to make them recognizable.
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: But they can't really make big movements with us either.
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: We are a diverse group. Two residents can walk around,
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: but not walk around like a marathon. That's how these
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: people look like. We are at ten, sometimes eleven at
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: the weekend. We are a very busy group. Eleven, because
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: then we get a lodger. And then we have to
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: do everything. As you said, we are a family. When
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: we go on a trip, it's a good.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: Example to take.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: It's like going away with a baby or children, even
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: if they are adults. I don't mean to denigrate that,
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: but you have to clean up. You have to take
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: medication with you, eat, because many of them can't swallow,
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: they eat mixed, or they can.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: Swallow more difficultly.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: In any case, that's a whole bunch of buffets.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Spoons, drinks.
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: Personalised drinks, spoons, yes. It's a whole organization. But we
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: do that, because we also go to amusement parks and such.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: Sure, nothing stops us.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Nothing stops us, no.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: So, because I thought it was so beautiful, I thought
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: the world should be brought out a bit.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Certainly.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I think it's very chic that you dared to do that,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: because it's not obvious to.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Write about it. But I think it's very nice.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: That you were able to picture yourself so well in
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: someone's head and try to convey it as well as possible.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Yes, I tried.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: I'm the character for a play. I thought about what
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: it would be like for me. We sometimes do these sessions.
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: You've already experienced it. It's our job as staff to
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: understand what it's like when they give you a thick drink.
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: Our people can't swallow it. You have to put some
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: medicine in the drink and it becomes a pop. But
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: that's not so nice, and that's not so... So those
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: are very different experiences that you experience. And I thought,
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: how do you feel? You're sitting in front of a
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: TV and it falls out. And you can't turn it on.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Or off, or on another post, or... Yes, but also
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: worse things.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: Like, yes, you're doing a chairlift, and someone else has
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: to clean it.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: And so, yes, I went out of it, and that's
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: maybe a bit....
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't say it's fictitious, because you don't know how
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: the thought process works. It's always fictitious because it's just
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: an assumption. But I wanted to say that it's so clear,
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: because the character has a fairly clear voice. I don't
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: think our guests will be there, but you don't know.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: But of course, the book has to stay readable. So yes.
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: To what extent do they realize that it's bad that
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: someone has to come and take my will away?
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: You don't know.
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: But I think you should assume that it's like you
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: would experience it. Then you can't do anything wrong.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you can say it, but what
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: really happened?
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: And what not? Or the characters?
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: Yes, there are staff members who recognize people when you
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: work with us, of course. Also the guests themselves. I
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: don't have anyone, because there is one person, I'm not
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: going to name his name, where people thought, oh, maybe
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: that's his life story or it's about that.
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: No, he looks like it, but it's... I've changed it
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: so much that it's a bit opposed to the family
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: situation of Jelle, my main character.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: But there are elements.
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: Jelle is a mix of three guests who work with us.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: Their appearance or what they can... Do they have food
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: or not? All those elements are three together. But there
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: are also staff members that I've taken things from.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: Yes, we all know... You're also in for a bit.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: But that's of course enlarged. And with some people I may.
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: Have taken a negative side and enlarged it, with others
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: a positive side.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: But it's a story. You always use things from the
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: people around you.
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: It's fiction, but there's a lot in it that really happened.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: You read it.
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: We can't say a few things. If you want to
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: read it, you know how it is. Those are spoilers.
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: But for example, what happens, what we can tell. On
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: a Christmas market. Yes, on the Christmas market. That really happened.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: I've heard people say that. For example, you walk around
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: with our guests. We have a wheelchair.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: That's not obvious. With steps. You can talk about this
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: for hours, because there's nothing... Easy. easy, wheelchair accessible.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: And suddenly you never stand somewhere where you can say,
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: there are people or cafes that do their very best,
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: but not in a lot of places. But there it
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: was really bad. It was at a Christmas market and
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: the guides and the guests heard people like, oh, what
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: are they doing there?
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Wouldn't they give them a better spray?
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: And I used that, for example, because I think that's
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: so striking. Because one of the elements, or one of
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: the themes that also appear in the book is, is
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: their life worth the effort? And that is a question
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: that I myself don't have an answer to. I don't
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: dare to say yes or no to that either. I
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: don't know what you think of that. I might just
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: say what I think of it and then leave your answer,
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: because it is interesting that you are also in that setting.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: I actually went out of a philosophy that there that
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: there's nothing after death.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: I don't believe it.
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: When you write a book, you think about every detail.
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: You've thought a lot about that. How do the characters
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: think about death? It's important how you look at life,
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: how you look at death. And if you don't believe it,
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: like me... I'd like to believe we're all on a
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: cloud and looking back at each other, but maybe there's
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: a point where I think it could be something like that.
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: With Ceylon or something, I'm not saying there's nothing there.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: But I assumed there was nothing there. And then you
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: have the choice, I think, between something or nothing. And
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: if it's something like very small things, enjoying the sun,
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: or enjoying a coffee, or listening to music, then I
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: still think it's better than nothing. Because when you're dead,
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: it's black. That's where the title comes in. Nobody likes
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: to be in the dark. You don't want to leave
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: without meaning anything or without experiencing things.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Sometimes they say our guests are too weak, too tired,
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: too this, too that.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: Then I think, it's better to experience something and then
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: be tired and miserable for a whole week than never
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: experience anything. Of course, if there's suffering, because we've seen
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: that there are guests who are in a lot of pain, then.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: Is that beautiful music that plays in the background. Then
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: life is not really worth the effort. What do you think?
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: Did I give you a good answer?
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: I think so.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: I think so too.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: I think about the same with your point of view.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: I also don't think of every moment.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: To a certain extent, of course.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Because you don't know what will happen after death.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: We live in the now.
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: We've had a few cases of death, and with the
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: first one, you had a hard time too, because.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: We saw that you were in pain. You thought, why?
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: But it's also very difficult, euthanasia.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: They can't say they want to die. No, it's that.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: It's very difficult, but I also think....
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: I'm totally not for death or anything, but I do
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: think that guys like that haven't really experienced much in
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: their lives, to put it crudely. They've never done anything wrong.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Why would they suffer in their last hours?
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: Yes, because it really hurts.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: And that's why I'm also of the opinion that we
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: should enjoy as much as we can, if possible, with time.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Relative as well. And just go and do and enjoy.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: And yes, we'll see. So that's my point of.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: View.
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: So that's one of the themes that I'm trying to
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: put in. Another event that is described in the book
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: and that really happened is when they are sitting at a.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: Brewery or restaurant and that the.
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: Owner actually comes to ask, yes, it is still tasteless
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: how your residents or how your people eat, is it
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: not possible? I don't know what he said exactly, but
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: to come at an hour when no one else is here.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: It really happens. It really happens.
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: Or they turn their face to the wall, so that
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: it's not so unpleasant for the other people. For people
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: who don't really know what they're talking about.
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: Some people, you give them food and they push it
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: with their tongue. That food goes back outside every time.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: And then you have to push it.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Back every time with that spoon.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: It's not always as tasty. It's not always as appetizing.
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: But on the other hand, you can compare that to
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: when a baby or a baby eats. And you can
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: do that, but because you're 35 years old and you're
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: in a wheelchair, you wouldn't be allowed to eat that way.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: That's very bad.
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: So that's also in there. And that's how you make
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: a lot of those things. Yes, me, actually. A lot
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: of prejudices. We don't get a lot in the media.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: It's improved, but....
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: You don't see our guests in the street. You see
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: the people from Down the Road, but that's the best
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: of the best. That's why there's so much criticism from us.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: I said it in the podcast with Linda. I think
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: it's a great show and I enjoy it. But we
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: also have people with Down syndrome. It's not always the
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: same as Kevin. There are also people who can't talk.
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: They show the best people in those kinds of programs.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: In reality, it's not.
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: Always like that. I also think that too few of
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: our target groups come to light.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: And also....
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: How heavy it can be, not just physically, but also mentally.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: You know, it's not just work we have to do.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: We also have to take care of those people in
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: their own way. So much has to happen, the household, everything, everything, everything.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, sometimes it's just a lack of time.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Yes, and the people who work with us know that too,
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: I think. That we two....
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: They don't like to do logistics or... Not like is
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: the wrong word. But if we don't do anything with them,
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: they sit there looking at the wall all day. That's
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: the difference between people who work in healthcare.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: And those who work in a shelter.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: Most elderly people, even if they are taming themselves, they
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: are in their own world.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: You can compare it to that. I don't know.
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: But if you're just an old man or woman, you
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: can entertain yourself. You can listen to the radio, you
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: can follow what's on TV in many cases. But not
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: with us. They're really dependent on you for everything. And
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: if you have a few hours on a day that
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: you have time next to eating and washing and conditions,
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: If you have to spend those hours putting clothes in
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: a closet, or cleaning, or cleaning.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: Or fiddling... Yes, sorry, we now have... Yes, no.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: Yes, it's a bit difficult now, because I don't know
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: what to say about privacy and so on.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to stay very general. But suppose that
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: there are people.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: There are people, I'll put it this way, who don't
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: have a birth certificate.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: Let's say they come in groups like ours.
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: We don't have much time, and he can't do anything
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: about it, we can't do anything about it, I don't
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: want to say that, that's something of a high standard.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: That's the concern.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: Because he does his best very hard, and it's a
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: very good institution, I think, with the means they get.
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: But they are also dependent on the means they get.
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: And I want to say that to sit next to
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: someone and talk to them, or to try to get
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: something out of it and to experiment with what and
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: this and that. There is actually very little time for that.
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: That is also normally done by people who are ergo
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: or what is it all, but.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Also those, it is not much.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: It is done, but it could be much more.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: But that's indeed something higher. And I don't know if
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: the future will look so rosy, not to be too pessimistic,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: but it's just.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: What you hear.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Savings and savings.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: And in the end, we'll stay there somewhere and we
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: won't forget.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: But yes, we're trying to make the best of it.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: It's not that our guests.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: Are bad, but there are days when they don't do anything.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: There's just no time. And that's bad.
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: Because I'm... I'm very proud of us, of the colleagues,
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: of the people, also of the ride itself, of everyone
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: who invests in those guests, because we really do everything
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: we can. But it is sometimes difficult. We don't have
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: to say that we have a very nice job, a
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: very grateful job, but I think we complain too little
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: about the care. If you have other groups, work groups,
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: or how should I say that, other job groups, I
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: would say, see how often they are going to stab
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: the NMBS, the teachers, to name a few. We can't stab.
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: If we don't come, that's also how sick I am.
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: I'm going to try to jump from the hook to
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: the pole.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: Because I can still do that.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: But if we, so I was going to say, yes,
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: we can't stab. If we don't come to them, they
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: have no food. And to pull the bottle a little,
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: if we don't go.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Then they will die. Then it's done.
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: And that also brings a lot of sense of responsibility.
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: Do you need to come and work with us? You
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: should not come and work with us and think that
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: it's all just like that. You really have to call sick,
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: for example. If you call sick with us, that's now
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: a thing where a lot of people, not only in healthcare,
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: but I think diseases and people who call sick, that's
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: a big problem.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: It's not going to work. No, it's not going to work.
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: Then there has to be another colleague for you, because
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: there has to be someone, of course. Otherwise, there's no
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: one who can put the spoon in their mouth.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: And then they die. So you need a lot of
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: sense of responsibility.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: We sometimes have long shifts, changing hours, from early to late.
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: That's not allowed now, but from late to day, I
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: would say. Very busy weeks.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, there is also a.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: That's... That's one of the reasons why a lot of
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: people don't do it full-time. Because you're also working on it.
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: Other groups say that we should be a little less
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: busy at work, but we still have to do a
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: lot at home.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: It's about teachers.
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying they don't work hard, but they're coming
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: forward prominently lately. But also those from the NMBS. We
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: have a heavy job. One of the arguments is that
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: we have to... Do jobs at home.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: But that's the same for us.
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: How often are you busy with a birthday party? Or
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: think about what kind of gift. Those are not the
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: biggest things. Or for example, now you go to the
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: store tomorrow morning for a cooking activity. But that's also
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: a new free time. And do you think that's bad? No,
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: you like to give something. But it's just to say
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: that we are really underprivileged. And you will never hear
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: me say that we are being paid well.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: We are being paid well. But not good enough. But
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: not good enough.
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: If you see that people who, for example, and without
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: wanting to be arrogant about it or anything, but people
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: who work in a factory, which is also important.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: Certainly.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: But who, for example, put windows in each other, I
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: always take as an example. The story is that the
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: others have to work a little harder, but no one
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: is going to die from it. But when you hear
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: that they work for a little less or even for
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: the same salary as we who are working with people.
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's socially correct. That's what I always
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: want to say when it comes to that.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, but it is too. But yes, who are we?
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: And what are we going.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: To do about it? Yes, no, nothing, but if we're
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: talking about it anyway, let's put it that way.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Certainly, and that's also true. But yes, you know, we
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: also like to do this job so much.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, because it's our light and because we have our
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: heart in the right place.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Maybe not everything is like that, right, Arno? But, you know.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: No, in the right place, yes.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: You have to be made for it, too. It's a
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: special job and it's certainly not for everyone.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I never liked.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: Going to school.
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: But I did like to go on trips. I never
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: did a lot, but trips and things. And I think
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: you do have that feeling in us. You said you're
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: a family. Some days are like going on a school trip.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: That sense of togetherness. It's a second family. If someone dies,
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: you come back. If someone has a big birthday party,
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: I go there. If you have a good group, it's
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: really a family for you. I also admire our guests.
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: Some of them... You always see everyone equally. That's nonsense.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: You have favorites. You see them all equally. You see
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: everyone professionally. But everyone is different. So that's not bad.
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: You have more connection or... How do you call that? Affinity,
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: people among each other. Between friends, and one of them
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: prefers to hang out with that person and that person.
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: But that's the same with us. And you create a bond.
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: I can imagine, and I also have some, not with
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: us in the group, but with other colleagues, who say
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: that if someone has died, it has hurt them more
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: than a family member, for example.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: But I can believe that.
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: You start to see it as your children or as
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: your friends. I dare to say that I see some
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: guests more as a friend or as a child.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: Of course, and you.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Also create a certain bond with the inhabitants. Because you
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: experience so many things.
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: We were actually wondering what really happened in that book.
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: One of those things is also... I didn't experience it myself,
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: but it's in the book. You're in a bus, there's
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: a charging platform, and suddenly it's blocked. You're stuck on
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: the charging platform. What do you do? Nowadays, those buses
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: are made so you can do it manually. The book
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: isn't right, but for tension and fictitious reasons, I made
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: sure the bus was really stuck. I don't think it's
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: still possible, but it did happen 20 years ago.
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: It's one of those criminal stories.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: And I've covered it up by letting it rain and
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: by making it a near-death experience.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: But you make those things happen.
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: Where you think in the beginning, oh shit, how scary
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: and dangerous. But afterwards you have to laugh about it.
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: We've also experienced things like that. That you say, how
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: are we going to solve this? But it's also the
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: way you create a bond with those people, I think,
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: and also with your colleagues.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: Yes, certainly. I don't know if we can say anything
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: without getting into the trouble of what we had to
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: deal with. No, but that's it. That's a number of
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: things over those years.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: In the end, everything went well, but you'll always have that.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: That exclamation mark, that's... Someone who... Yes, yes. If you
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: go somewhere with your family on vacation, there's.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: Always someone or something that stands out. Or you break
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: something and you think, oh, I can do that. That's
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: also in the book. That's also really happened.
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: At the Christmas market, someone of those people.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: Takes some chips. I think you were there when that
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: really happened. That's possible.
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: And he takes the chips and he bites them and bam.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's right.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: That's what happened to me. That's a direction.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: Yes, what do you do then?
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: You go to the cash register and you pay for it.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: You don't just put it back quietly.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: Between the rest, like some people would do. But....
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, things like that happen.
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: The good things, the bad things, we can't... No, that's
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: all so bad. People won't think about it. But things
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: like that happen and that's how you create a bond.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's true. And that's what makes it fun.
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: For some of our guests, we are also The only
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: family member.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: There are also a lot.
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: Of guests who don't have a family, who are on
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: the OCMW, and if something happens to them, or if
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: they have to go to the hospital, for example, then
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: you will sit next to them.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Or nobody is sitting next to them.
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: So they are very lonely. They realize that not always,
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: it depends on the person of course, But I just
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: want to say that it also has to do with
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: a bond that you create. If you know that you
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: or you as a team or people who work there
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: are the only ones.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Who have those people, then.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Shall we briefly explain what a day actually looks like?
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: That people have an idea of what we do.
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: For the people who want to apply, go to the
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: site of The.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: Heide, because we will now tell you what a day
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: looks like for us. If you come to work with
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: us in a care group.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: So it takes from seven to nine approximately.
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: Yes, it depends, but we have three services. From 7
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: to 3, from 8 to 6, and from half past
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: one to 9. If there is something special to do,
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: it can be an extra service with deviating hours.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, and volunteers too.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: And volunteers come too.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: Yes, not much, but all volunteers are always welcome. We
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: now have two volunteers who, for example, wash for us,
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: who come from the laundry. But it also has to
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: do with the bond that you build up. People who retire,
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: they can't.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Let go of that.
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: Often others do, so one person against the other, but
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: they keep coming.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: Or sometimes they visit again.
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: Because there are really situations in which people have cared
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: for the same person for 30, 40 years. And yes,
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: you can't let go of that. From one day to
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: the next.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: How does a day look like?
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: You have two different groups.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: Groups like ours, we'll say they're care-intensive, they're more in wheelchairs,
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: they're less mobile. That doesn't mean anything about the cognitive capacity,
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: because there are also people who are more mobile, who
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: don't have the same level of.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: Mental. So it's not that our guests are mentally.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: Being weaker or stronger. So mobile and non-mobile. And we're
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: in a less mobile group. And then... Do you want
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: to say something? I'm talking too much. I don't know
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: about the other groups.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: I work... There are many similarities, but each group.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: Or house is a standing entity. Yes, that's right. We
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: start early, at seven o'clock.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: Some people need medication, and then it's actually starting to
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: wake people up and wash them, just like we wash ourselves.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: But then of course in a different way, in their
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: own way, washing. We also get every day.
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: With lifts and baths, on a shower curtain. Yes, you
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: need a lot of accessories to take care of someone
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: like that.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, they can't stand, they can only lie down. Some
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: can sit, but for the rest, they.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: Can't do anything.
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: If you have someone who is 1.80 meters tall and
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: weighs 100 kilos, that's fine. But that's also the case
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: for parents. That's why some parents come to the point
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: that they can't take care of them at home anymore,
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: because that's a big... You need a lot of material
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: and expertise for that.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: It's not always possible sometimes.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: So they wash and do it together.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: We're only two in the morning. To prepare 10 or
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: 11 guests is impossible.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: That's a whole organization.
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: Yes, and then you have to give them all food,
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: because there is no one here who can eat completely
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: on their own.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: So now you have to give them all food.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: We also have a few guests who get without food.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: So we have to give them medication.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: We see that it's all resolved over time.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: The right time is given.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Pre-medication such as primpran or omeprazole, take into account that.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: You have to show them that she has knowledge, to
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: pass on her medication names in between. Yes, but....
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, I try to be professional, but we all have
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: to take that into account. And it all has to
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: be given within a certain time.
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: Yes, it's an organization that is difficult for us to follow.
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: We are both chaotic, we can say that. Some people
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: know that better than we do, we can admit that.
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: Because I also constantly forget... There are a thousand things
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: that people... During that breakfast situation, we also get a
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: lot of phone calls. From an elderly person who wants
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: to know how it was. From a kid who has
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: questions about a broken wheelchair. Or a logo that wants
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: to adapt something to a breakfast. Because every guest, every
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: person has a whole script, shall we say, that constantly
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: needs to be adapted. Because everyone who comes to work,
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: or shop students, or interns, or for the inspection.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: It all has to be on paper, what you do
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: with those people. What kind of food do you give them?
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: What consistency? In what way do you have to feed them?
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: So there are people working on that. It's an administration
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: to tell you to adjust the fish to what is
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: currently available. Medication also constantly changes things. I have to
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: take this pill, I take that pill, more, less, more.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's true. Everything is the same.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: I was saying that he called to ask questions and
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: then he came in and the cleaning lady came in
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: and asked questions about a lot of things. You don't
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: even know your own name anymore.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: And after that, when everyone has eaten, you have to
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: put the rooms back in order. Because in the morning,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: you don't have time for that. So everything has to
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: be put in order for the afternoon and for the
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: day after. And before you know it, it's half past
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: twelve and the afternoon.
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: Car is coming.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: And eat again.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: On the morning, we rarely do any activities. I try
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: to compensate for that by hanging out a bit of
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: the nozzler.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: That's how we know you.
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: But everyone does that in their own way. To have
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: the good in that group. We are all uncles and aunts.
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: You can call it that.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: And I put someone's hands in someone's hands. Or I
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: blame someone. I'm for the gross humor. Some people would
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: come to us and say, what is he doing with
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: those guys?
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: So we know specifically who can do what and who
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: can appreciate gross humor and who can not. So you
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: try to compensate by doing so that you can't offer
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: them anything.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: In terms of activity. After lunch, they all rest a bit,
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: because they need to go to bed.
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: Not because they're all tired, but also because you need
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: a moment to purify your income material.
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: And to give.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Your body a different attitude, because they sit in a.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Wheelchair all day. It's there for a different attitude. For
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: the muscles.
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: In the meantime, the kidney comes along to do the treatments.
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: That all happens at the same time, in the morning.
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: And then at 3 o'clock.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: No, at 2 o'clock. If everyone is out of bed
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: at 2.30, it depends.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Then we finally have time to do something fun with them.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: And that differs from day to day. That can be
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: walking with nice weather, snorkeling with bad weather. That's actually
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: in a room with lights and a waterbed to their size,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: with some music.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: That's actually very cozy. Just do nothing for a while.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: But for them, that's so much.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: And they can enjoy it so much, and we can too, secretly.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: And that's how we do something every day.
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: And then the day goes on. We go cycling, that
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: varies a lot. Some days we go to the nursery,
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: then the day looks a bit different. And then in
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: the evening, it's the same. I'd like.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: To have more time in the evening for....
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: To sit next to someone and talk to them. Or
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: to read them a story. Sometimes I do that. Sometimes
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: I read... I'll give you an example. Arno, why didn't
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: you kneel down?
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: That's why I sit next to each other and read something.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: Now I know why. I don't know if it's smart
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: to say that here.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: We should be able to do more of those things.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: But it's not that it doesn't happen.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: But we try, we do our best.
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: A very nice job, I would say, is what they
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: all do. Because you get a lot of satisfaction out
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: of it. That's also something I tell my interns, or
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: I sometimes tell them when it comes to it, that
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: I have also learned a lot from our guests.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: You were talking about snoozing. From being quiet.
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: From enjoying just having a coffee. From the little things, actually.
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: They bring me in one way or another that sometimes.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: To rest.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: There are days, most of them, when they scream and
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: make noise and make you go crazy. But if you
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: start thinking about it, we've had a few characters, some
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: have unfortunately passed away, who, I think, have really taught
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: me that it sometimes doesn't have to be anymore.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: We sit and we... Playing with our fetuses.
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: It feels good. It feels good, and that's all. It
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: feels good to have a fetus. There's someone in the
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: book who knits my fetuses. It's nice to have that.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: And if you... That's also.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: Someone who is based on someone who has passed away.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: That's Bart in the book. And if you want to
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: go there with a coffee, how happy he would be
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: to drink a coffee.
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: That's something that you lose as a normal person, or
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: as an adult, or whatever you want to call it.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's true.
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: So that's also something that I learned from them, I think.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's true. Sometimes they just stand still. And that
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: makes the job even more beautiful, actually.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: Indeed. Now, back to your book, Arno. No one likes
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: to be in the dark. How did you come up
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: with that title? By chance, the light often lights up
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: in our office.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: Now, everyone's light is on, but... Merci, merci. No, no, no.
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: Yes, that's actually something very coincidental. When you're working on
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: your book, you're constantly thinking about it, but coincidences slip
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: into it. And I was actually with a resident of ours,
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: playing a game or something, or something crazy. My grandfather
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: used to say, when we played something, don't put me
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: in the dark.
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: Do you know what that means? No, no.
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: For me, that's a universal saying, but you don't know it.
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: Don't put me in the dark. Do you know what
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: that means? No, at home we speak Polish.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: Ah, okay. You're half Polish.
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: I don't know if that's for people outside Limburg or
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: outside Sint-Truiden, but that means you can't cheat on me.
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: Don't cheat on me. Don't make me a fool. Don't
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: make me pay more than you do. Don't make me
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: a fool. And I say to that resident, I say,
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: what is that? Don't make me a fool. Because no
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: one likes to be fooled. And I thought to myself
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: at that moment, that's a nice sentence I just said.
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: Against that person. And then I have a lot of...
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: Because that sentence comes up a few times. Then I
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: have built up the story around those sentences. In terms
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: of life philosophy, I would say. About death and what
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: we just said.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's it.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: That was me.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: No, that's a new thing. That's fresh from the needle.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: Fresh from the needle.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: That's how we learn something every day.
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: That's for sure, Mrs. Poeze. And.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: Why did you start a podcast about books?
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: Ah, yes.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Is it that interesting now, a podcast about books?
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't know, because.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, if you like.
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: To read, it's interesting.
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: On the one hand, I was looking for it myself,
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: because I'm working on it, of course. Because I also
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: want to know how it is for other people. And
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: you find a number of them, but not.
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: Not so much, and certainly not where there is a
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: specific conversation with an author. And as an unknown author,
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: you're always looking for ways to stay under attention. And
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: I thought, how can I do that in a meaningful way?
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: Because it's difficult to advertise your book, certainly. That's what
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: we always say in the intro. Especially if you're in
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: a small publishing house or if you don't have your
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: own management.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: Then there are no big advertising resources.
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: Even if you're in my big publishing house, as an
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: unknown person, you won't get a lot of advertising resources.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: It will be something or the other. But that's why I.
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: Thought, it's not that I find myself the best interviewer
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: or something, because people listen. I think I've improved compared
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: to the first ones I recorded. But yes, so a
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: little bit for myself too, a little bit, if I
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: may say that, what comes into the attention, also for
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: other people, a little bit, if this now has success,
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: if this now has success, then that is for them
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: again an advertising tool or something. Because it is not
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: because you are a writer that you have a lot
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: of knowledge of marketing or something. So that is maybe
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: nice for people who then Yes, it seems very interesting
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: to me.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, because there are.
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: I plan to do episode 6 myself. So this is
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: episode 6, normally, because I was born on March 6th.
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: That's a bit of a number. I say, yes, I'm
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: going to do 6. But I wanted to say that
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: there is a variation between... Not between professional and non-professional,
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: because all the books that pass the review have a
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: certain level, but people with a very.
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: Technical knowledge, I would say, who are really interested in
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: big publishers, who have spoken interestingly about the real technical
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: aspects of writing a book, but also people with a
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: whole life story. So normally, that episode with Linda has
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: already come, which then also tells about nursing care and
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: the search for her father and so on. And there
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: will be another episode when I put the follow-up online,
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: the follow-up that I now have, of someone who grew
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: up in Congo. I find it interesting to be able
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: to talk to those people. A writer usually thinks a
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: lot about life and has something to tell. Whether it's
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: good or bad, or you agree or disagree, I'll leave
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: that in the middle. But at least he thought about
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: something and has a fundamental opinion that he has worked
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: on in his book.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's it.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about the publishers. Big publishers, small publishers. How
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: did you end up at your own publisher? I've heard
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: that it wasn't easy. Because they think they can work
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: with you.
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: Arno is nice. Who is Arno?
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: I know, he comes in as a diva and says.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: No.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: I'll give you a short summary.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: Of what happened.
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: I had written it down and I already had it
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: in my head, because I hadn't followed the rules of
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: the academy. It was much longer than it was supposed
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: to be, but they never said anything about it. And
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: then I actually won a prize, because with the proclamation,
• 51:50
  Speaker 4: it's like learning to play the trumpet or the piano
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: or something like that. So if you've finished that, then
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: there's a proclamation or a drawing academy, something like that.
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: And I was called to the front on the podium,
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: I didn't know anything about it.
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: I got a distinction. It was a brush.
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: I should have shown it to them, but it doesn't matter.
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: They liked it very much. The comments were like, this
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: is ready to be published. And I knew, or I know,
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: that it has a certain level, because it's really intensively recited,
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: time after time, while I was writing it, by the
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: people in that group, who also follow the lesson, who
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: know something about it. Beatrice has edited it, and she's
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: really professional. I knew that if they say that this
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: is good, it will be true.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: Then there's something in it. They won't lie about it.
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: No, because they have to be honest. There aren't that
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: many people, but there are also people who have been abused.
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: If it wasn't good, it's not good.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: It's an academy, it's the same for other schools.
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: They also have to answer their points. They also get subsidies.
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: It's not easy. It's a school. Yes, it's a school.
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: So they said, you have to send that in. I said, okay,
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: I did that.
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: To various publishers, which I thought would fit into their fund.
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: You shouldn't send a story like that to someone who
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: publishes Tony Coppers or Trillers or something like that, because
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: that's not what it is now. And I got several
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: responses that it was good, but that it wasn't commercial enough.
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: That they thought, oh, it's not going to sell. Then
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: I gave as a counter-argument, listen, so many people work
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: at Ter Heide, as a fourth or a fifth I
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: assumed it would buy, and we're already at that certain number.
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: So I thought, yes, because average booksellers have a wrong
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: idea about that. It's only sold 44 times in the store.
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: That's not a lot. There are those that are sold 20,000 times,
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: but there are also those that are only sold twice.
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: And that would be the average 44, I was told.
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: So I thought, yes, I'm going to go loose there.
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: I was convinced of that. So they didn't do that.
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: And then there was a writing day in Genk, where
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: I had been to, from creatiefschrijven.be, I believe. And there
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: I met Patrick Bernouw. That's also a story apart. I
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: always have something like that. You were allowed your... How
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: do you call that? Your synopsis. In short, what your
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: book is about. And where you explain completely... You have
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: to understand how it ends and what you want.
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: So there are all the spoilers.
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: I'll just say that the publisher on two pages really
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: knows that this is the book, it's going to die,
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: it's going to stay alive, it's been there. That they
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: know how it is in each other. But I understood
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: that it could only be half a page. That's very short.
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: So I printed it so hard to get half a page,
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: that it didn't work.
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: So I wasn't chosen to talk to the publisher.
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: But there was also a man who wrote the VZW
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: Descriptomanen many years ago, and I was allowed to talk
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: to him.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: It was a very pleasant conversation.
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: It was with Patrick, the person who normally, in the
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: first two episodes, has written this book, among other things.
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: He also worked for television. People will know because they
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: have already listened to that podcast. And if they haven't
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: done that yet, he's also online. So a man who
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: knows what we're talking about. And he thought that idea
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: was really awesome. And he was actually very enthusiastic. And
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: then he published it under his VZW. And that means
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: he helped me with it. Actually, that's... It's a kind
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: of self-management. But with his expertise, he helped you with
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: the VZW to bring it out. And that's how it
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: ended up in all the stores online. And he helped
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: with that, so it was a very nice collaboration.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: It's nice that he gave you that chance.
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: Yes, because he immediately said... And also because they're not
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: on a profit. break even, or whatever you call it.
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: They won't be allowed to lose. Nobody wants to lose.
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: But they're not out to make a big profit. So
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: that man.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: Helped me a lot. It was a very nice collaboration.
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: And I think I'm... I'm working on something else again.
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: It's a bit in the same style, maybe a lot
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: has been said, but it's also going to be from
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: the I-person. I can tell you a little bit about it.
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: I'm almost certain that I'm going to do it again
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: in this way via Patrick and the scriptomanes.
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: But it's actually about a.
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: In the experience of a child, you grow up in
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: a very bad, aggressive family.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: Or in a problematic family. That's what it's all about. Exciting.
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: I don't dare to put a deadline on it. But
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: it will be for the coming time.
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: Exciting. I'm curious.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: And you just said that your book is available online
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: and in stores.
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: Yes, so people who want to buy it, you can
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: buy it everywhere, on every website where they sell books, bol.com,
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: the standard book store of course, De Slechte, De Fnak,
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: you can buy it online anywhere. You can also buy
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: it via the website of the scriptomanen.be. But to be honest,
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: you do pay some shipping costs. And with the standard
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: bookseller it's free. But you don't earn that much on
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: a book. That's the way it is. But if you
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: buy the book from me personally, so people who know
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: me and who know that I see Arno or I
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: live close to Arno, around Tongeren or South Lumburg, we
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: will say, they can also order that book from me
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: and then I will bring it to you.
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: Because then I keep more.
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: Of that book myself and I then donate two euros
• 58:09
  Speaker 4: every time. I have a little more margin. I also
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: donate to Terheide. So I have already transferred a few
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: times the amount to Terheide. And also, if you order
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: it on the website of the Scriptomanen, there is room for...
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: It's only 2 euros, but every 2 euros is something.
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: Then there is room to give that. And that space
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: is not there if you buy it at the standard.
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: Bookstore or at bol.com or something. I mean, yes.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: Those people also have to earn their cents.
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to say how much I earn when
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: I sell it on bol.com, but that's so little. I
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: can't pay for coffee with it.
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: Maybe I can.
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: Pay for the cookie with the coffee when I sell
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: a book, so that's not that much. So people can
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: buy it anywhere, and if they know me or live
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: close by, Yes, you can also find me via the
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: reading lamps or my personal social media.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: And people can also win the book. We also have
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: to tell that. Very important.
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: They can do that by promoting this podcast, by sharing
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: the episodes, in this case my episode, and by making
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: it known to the people. And then I choose someone
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: who wins this beautiful book, and then it will be
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: signed for free. So of course it will cost you
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: a lot of money over the next few years.
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: It will be signed with the first print. I can
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: always have.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: The first print signed. You have one of the first copies.
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: I think. It was one of the first that you bought.
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: Thank you for that.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: For something good, then.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: You have to tell me that I also brought you
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: to Terhenne. That is also true.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: So before something happens, I was secretly a bit obliged. Yes,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: she was actually obliged to come to work with us.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: Yes, and also to read the book. Yes, but you
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: did it anyway. Yes, certainly. Very nice.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: Certainly an advisor.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Julia, that you wanted to replace me to
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: take this interview with me.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, nice, thank you.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: I thought it was very nice.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, me too.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: If it's successful, it's our podcast, who knows, then we
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: can talk about something else or about books. If I
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: get you to read more books, you can maybe come
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 4: and tell me how your experience was.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Who knows, who knows, someday, when I have more time.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: And Goesing especially.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: But thank you very much for letting me do this,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: because it's all still very new and very exciting for me.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: So, yes.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: Good luck to you, Arnold.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Let's finish with a little lecture.– There you go.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: You know what to do.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: I'll do it myself.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: I'll give you a little lecture. We call it the flashpoint.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: That's the moment when the story really begins and when
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: your main character realizes that something has to happen, something
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: has to change. Again, I have to wait for that
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: round that turns on in the middle of my TV screen. Usually,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: that dirty little player starts. met zijn werk als er
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 4: iets spannends gebeurt.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: Soms stopt het vanzelf.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: Andere keren moet ik uren wachten tot er iemand komt
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: om het op te lossen.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: Daar is Cathy. Gelukkig.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: Ze is druk in de weer met het bakje om
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: die smeerlap weg te krijgen. Welke film wil ze opzetten?
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: Het lukt. Er verschijnt iets op het scherm.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: Een zaal. Een tafel uit witte marmer. Met in het
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: midden Een paar bloemenkransen. Een beige pot. Ernaast de foto
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: van mama. Dezelfde van op het kaartje. Mama op het strand.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: Ze lacht en haar kastanjebruine haar waait op in de wind.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: Zo ben je er toch een beetje bij, fluistert Katty
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: in mijn oor. Ze wrijft over mijn schouder. Ze omhelst me.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: Ik staar voor me uit.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: Mama. Niels, mijn broer, In a black suit. He reads aloud.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: That voice.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: Piano and in between guitar. They are not in harmony.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: Niels dabs his tears dry. He taps twice short on
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: the beige pot and puts a white rose next to
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: her photo. Does he really think it can't hurt me?
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: That I don't feel anything when I think of mom?
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: It's just like with dad.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: Then I even had more sadness than he did. I'm
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: sure of that. Op dit moment is alles in mijn
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: lijf verschroeid. Ik bloed van binnen, helemaal aan stukken gescheurd.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: Ik wil roepen en tieren en janken.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: Maar het lukt niet. Lukt het niet?
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 4: Niels is de enige die ik nog heb. Jij begrijpt
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: toch niets. Zijn zin galmt door mijn hoofd. En Cathy,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: we weten niet wat hij begrijpt. Hij laat geen emoties zien.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: Is dat echt zo? Kan ik geen emoties laten zien?
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: Can I not cry at the thought that mama will
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: never walk with me again? That we will never eat
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: an ice cream together again? That she will never read
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: out of the books of that fucking blinker again? A
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: lonely drop, but still under my eye. The violins again.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: They fly into the heights. Just like the voice of
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: Koen Wouters. Tomorrow the sun will rise again. There is
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 4: life after death.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: Before, in any case.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 4: Ik moet vanaf nu laten zien dat ik emoties heb.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: Dat ik begrijp.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: Zie mij hier zitten. Ik wil erbij zijn. Ik wil
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: deel uitmaken. Ik wil invloed hebben.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: Ik heb meer dan twintig jaar gezeten en gezwegen. Een
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: handvol mensen buigt en legt rozen neer. Bij papa stond
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: er een heel orkest te spelen. Mama verdient meer. De
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: vuile draaier draait weer. Het scherm wordt doktorat.