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FairT - HOF comps, Roki's reason, Angels done? · Foul Territory

0:00
Speaker 1: If I let this guy in, then I might have
0:02
Speaker 1: to have a case or possibility of supporting this guy,
0:05
Speaker 1: this guy, this guy, and this guy. And that is
0:07
Speaker 1: one of the quandaries voters face sometimes.
0:09
Speaker 2: I think they just put these things out there to
0:10
Speaker 2: get a rise out of us, and it worked.
0:20
Speaker 1: Welcome everyone to the Thursday edition of Fair Territory. I'm
0:23
Speaker 1: Ken Rosenthal here with Alta Rizzo Alto. We still have
0:27
Speaker 1: a ton of free agents still out there, Pete Alonzo,
0:29
Speaker 1: Alex Bregman, Jack Flaherty, Nick Paveta, to name a few,
0:34
Speaker 1: but we're not going to talk about those guys today.
0:36
Speaker 1: We have some other things in store.
0:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, Ken, Grett to be with you as always.
0:40
Speaker 2: By the way, Jack Flaherty is making an appearance on
0:42
Speaker 2: Foul Territory right after our show ends at one pm Eastern,
0:46
Speaker 2: So check out what Jack has to say, perhaps maybe
0:48
Speaker 2: giving us some insight on his free agency. But you're right,
0:51
Speaker 2: no news right now on Alonzo and Bregman, but there
0:54
Speaker 2: is news as far as Roki Sisaki is concerned. Ken
0:58
Speaker 2: the Dodger's making an official He had his press conference yesterday.
1:02
Speaker 2: Another Japanese ace in that rotation.
1:05
Speaker 1: Yes, and a lot of the most interesting things to
1:07
Speaker 1: come out of that news conference for me, besides him
1:09
Speaker 1: talking about wanting to have milkshakes and hamburgers, was what
1:13
Speaker 1: he said was the principal reason he chose the Dodgers,
1:17
Speaker 1: And what he said was the stability of the front office. Now,
1:21
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of talk was this in the
1:23
Speaker 1: bag all along for the Dodgers? Was this always the
1:26
Speaker 1: way it was going to go? But if you look
1:28
Speaker 1: at the three finalists, and there's the quote from Sasaki,
1:31
Speaker 1: the stability of the front office was a part of
1:33
Speaker 1: what resonated within the Dodgers pitch. Okay, if you look
1:37
Speaker 1: at the three finalists, the Blue Jays, the Padres, the Dodgers, well,
1:42
Speaker 1: the Dodgers' front office clearly is the most stable. And
1:45
Speaker 1: if you remember, shoe Otani had that clause inserted into
1:48
Speaker 1: his contract that if ownership changes or if Andrew Friedman leaves,
1:52
Speaker 1: he can go. So from that perspective, when you consider
1:57
Speaker 1: where the Blue Jays are and where the Padres are,
2:00
Speaker 1: it's understandable why Susaki made the decision he did. The
2:04
Speaker 1: reason he made it was because he felt clearly that
2:08
Speaker 1: it was more stable in Los Angeles. What is happening
2:12
Speaker 1: right now. In Toronto, you have Mark Schapiro, the team president,
2:15
Speaker 1: in the final year of his contract. You have Ross
2:17
Speaker 1: Atkins the general manager with two years left, and there
2:20
Speaker 1: are a lot of questions about whether these guys are
2:23
Speaker 1: going to be there for the long term. In San Diego,
2:26
Speaker 1: we all know there's an ownership question. There is a
2:30
Speaker 1: fight going on between the late Peter Siedler's widow and
2:34
Speaker 1: his brothers for control of the team. So it's unstable
2:37
Speaker 1: the situation there. And for that reason, if that is
2:41
Speaker 1: indeed something that swayed Sasaki, you can understand it.
2:45
Speaker 2: And you can also understand too why he would like
2:48
Speaker 2: to some certainty. Obviously, coming to the United States, having
2:51
Speaker 2: to learn the whole system and the culture here, having
2:53
Speaker 2: some certainty of the team that he's going to probably
2:56
Speaker 2: makes him feel a little bit better. Let's talk about
2:59
Speaker 2: Jack Flaherty really quick. kN Not only is he coming
3:01
Speaker 2: up on foul territory with the Boys, but he had
3:03
Speaker 2: a tweet recently that said a certain team is not
3:06
Speaker 2: ruining baseball, a lot of other teams are just doing
3:08
Speaker 2: very little. Obviously, we know he's talking about the Los
3:11
Speaker 2: Angeles Dodgers, and this was an interesting tweet to me Ken,
3:14
Speaker 2: just because obviously I would imagine Jack would like to
3:17
Speaker 2: be a part of the Dodgers' rotation. He probably won't
3:19
Speaker 2: be at this point, but he doesn't seem to be
3:22
Speaker 2: upset with the fact that he's not with them, and
3:24
Speaker 2: he understands and appreciates what they're doing right.
3:28
Speaker 1: What he is talking about is the industry, not the
3:31
Speaker 1: Dodgers per se. He's saying they are operating the way
3:34
Speaker 1: a team should operate. And I wrote about this the
3:36
Speaker 1: other day. It's not that every team can operate like
3:39
Speaker 1: the Dodgers. There's no way. The Dodgers have a financial
3:42
Speaker 1: foundation that is unique to them. They've led the league
3:45
Speaker 1: in attendance every year since thirteen. They also have an
3:49
Speaker 1: eight point five billion dollar television deal that started in
3:52
Speaker 1: thirteen over twenty five years, so they have financial advantages
3:56
Speaker 1: that no other team, not even the Mets and Yankees can.
4:00
Speaker 1: That said, every other team can at least compete in
4:06
Speaker 1: a way that it is maximizing its capabilities. And that
4:09
Speaker 1: is the complaint that Jack Flaherty has. It's the complaint
4:12
Speaker 1: I have. It's the complaint a lot of players have
4:15
Speaker 1: with the way the sport is right. Now, there are
4:17
Speaker 1: teams out there with money, but they don't want to
4:20
Speaker 1: spend that money. Now, they may have reasons for that,
4:22
Speaker 1: and certainly the television questions in local markets, with the
4:26
Speaker 1: future of the revenue and all of that comes into play.
4:29
Speaker 1: We all get that. We all get that circumstances occasionally change.
4:33
Speaker 1: But you can't tell me that there are large market teams,
4:37
Speaker 1: mid market teams and small market teams that are competing
4:40
Speaker 1: to the best of their capabilities. That's not happening with
4:43
Speaker 1: all of them. Some of them, yes, But I can
4:45
Speaker 1: name teams in each category and did in the column
4:49
Speaker 1: that are not simply trying the way they should be.
4:51
Speaker 1: And that's the problem. That's what he's talking about.
4:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, no question about that.
4:55
Speaker 2: There are some teams can, as you know better than
4:57
Speaker 2: anybody of the thirty, that have literally not spent a
5:00
Speaker 2: dollar in the off season. We're not asking you to
5:03
Speaker 2: compete as high the level as the Dodgers are, but you.
5:06
Speaker 3: Can spend some money.
5:07
Speaker 1: Okay.
5:08
Speaker 2: One thing we know for certain is the three new inductees,
5:10
Speaker 2: actually five if you can't the other committee electing Dick
5:15
Speaker 2: allen In as well as Dave Parker. But we know
5:18
Speaker 2: that cc Sabathia, Billy Wagner, and Ichiro Suzuki Ken are
5:22
Speaker 2: headed into Cooperstown. That was just announced a couple of
5:25
Speaker 2: days ago. But I want to ask you this, there
5:27
Speaker 2: were some comparisons in terms of once a certain player
5:32
Speaker 2: gets in, it opens up the case for other players
5:35
Speaker 2: that have the same types of numbers to perhaps have
5:38
Speaker 2: a bigger consideration. So let's start with this. For one second,
5:42
Speaker 2: I'm going to bring up a full screen. I'm going
5:43
Speaker 2: to walk you through this Ken the same but different. Now,
5:46
Speaker 2: this is a pitching category, okay, So what I'm going
5:50
Speaker 2: to ask you is this player A player B, player C.
5:52
Speaker 3: So this is a mystery pitcher.
5:54
Speaker 2: Let's say, okay, so if you take a look at
5:57
Speaker 2: the categories, it's the record at ERA plus strikeouts in
6:00
Speaker 2: their career, postseason ERA, and then some of the major accolades. Obviously,
6:04
Speaker 2: Cy Young six time All Star is player A. Cy
6:08
Speaker 2: Young also with six time All Star is player B.
6:11
Speaker 2: In addition to that, though this certain player, Player B,
6:14
Speaker 2: this mystery pitcher has six gold gloves. And then you
6:17
Speaker 2: have player C. Now that player is a three time
6:20
Speaker 2: All Star has a better postseason eer third most in
6:25
Speaker 2: terms of strikeouts amongst these three players era plus of
6:28
Speaker 2: one seventeen and you can see the record there. Obviously,
6:31
Speaker 2: player B has a much different record than A and C.
6:36
Speaker 2: But I'll ask you this, ken if you're looking at
6:38
Speaker 2: these three players, and I don't know if you can
6:40
Speaker 2: see it on your screen, do player B and C?
6:45
Speaker 2: Should they also get in? If player A gets in?
6:49
Speaker 1: A lot of This is the vexing question that voters face,
6:52
Speaker 1: and it's not just this particular comparison. There are a
6:55
Speaker 1: number of comparisons, and this is what makes it so difficult.
6:59
Speaker 1: Fans will say to me, hey, man, I know who
7:01
Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer is, and that guy should be
7:03
Speaker 1: in period. Well, the problem with that when you're a
7:06
Speaker 1: voter is if you let player A in in this case,
7:11
Speaker 1: our player B and player C totally deserving, should they
7:14
Speaker 1: be in too? Now maybe the answer for some will
7:16
Speaker 1: be yes, but maybe it will be no. And sometimes
7:20
Speaker 1: when you open the door and you lower a standard,
7:23
Speaker 1: then it becomes more difficult going forward with the vote. Now,
7:27
Speaker 1: I'm not saying this is some kind of burden on
7:30
Speaker 1: the voters. This is what we're supposed to be looking at,
7:32
Speaker 1: but it makes it challenging because sometimes and I look
7:37
Speaker 1: at this all the time. If I let this guy in,
7:39
Speaker 1: then I might have to have a case or at
7:41
Speaker 1: least possibility of supporting this guy, this guy, this guy,
7:45
Speaker 1: and this guy. And that is one of the quandaries
7:47
Speaker 1: of voter's face.
7:48
Speaker 2: Right, So then here is the reveal kind if we
7:51
Speaker 2: can go back to that screen for just a second. Obviously,
7:53
Speaker 2: Zach Grinky is Player B. He did not have two
7:56
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty five wins. That would be an unbelievable,
7:59
Speaker 2: ridiculous record. So their record there is a little bit skewed.
8:02
Speaker 2: But if you look at the fact that C. C.
8:04
Speaker 2: Sabathia is PLAYERURA, his record was two fifty one and
8:07
Speaker 2: one sixty one. Uh, the strikeouts are over three thousand.
8:11
Speaker 2: He has darned near thirty one hundred strikeouts in his
8:14
Speaker 2: career postseason era four point three eight. Obviously, a sy
8:17
Speaker 2: Young Award winner, six time All Star. He's going in
8:21
Speaker 2: as a New York Yankee into the Hall of Fame,
8:23
Speaker 2: first time on the ballot, first time, you know, and
8:26
Speaker 2: he and he makes it in. Zach Grankie certainly has
8:28
Speaker 2: a case. If you look at the era, the amount
8:31
Speaker 2: of strikeouts almost three thousand, strikeouts postseason era that's, you know,
8:36
Speaker 2: better than CCS and six gold gloves to go with
8:39
Speaker 2: the Cy Young Award and the sixth time All Star.
8:41
Speaker 2: And then you have the case for Andy Pettitt, obviously
8:44
Speaker 2: two fifty six, one fifty three, one seventeen on the
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Speaker 2: era strikeouts not quite to twenty five hundred postseason era
8:51
Speaker 2: better amongst all three of those guys, and then a
8:54
Speaker 2: three time All Star.
8:55
Speaker 3: So does the name uh?
8:57
Speaker 2: Revealing the name and the team that they played for,
9:00
Speaker 2: does that change the opinion?
9:02
Speaker 1: The team that they play for is irrelevant? But the
9:06
Speaker 1: choice between Sabathia and Pettit for me on this year's
9:09
Speaker 1: ballot was very difficult, and I wrote an entire column
9:11
Speaker 1: about it because you really could justify a vote for
9:14
Speaker 1: Pettit based on CC getting in now. CEC is one
9:17
Speaker 1: of only three lefties with two hundred and fifty wins
9:20
Speaker 1: and three thousand strikeouts. Randy Johnson and Steve Carlton are
9:24
Speaker 1: the others. That's a distinguishing characteristic, and there are others.
9:27
Speaker 1: But Pettitt has pitched the most postseason innings of any pitcher,
9:30
Speaker 1: and he pitched really well in the postseason. His numbers
9:33
Speaker 1: were about the same as they were in the regular season,
9:36
Speaker 1: and you can make a case for pettit. I just
9:38
Speaker 1: think that CEC had a certain aura about him, that
9:40
Speaker 1: great march to the postseason with the Brewers, what he
9:44
Speaker 1: did with the Indians now the Guardians, and of course
9:46
Speaker 1: his performance with the Yankees two thousand and nine World
9:49
Speaker 1: Series and beyond he plus reinvented himself. All of these
9:52
Speaker 1: things factored into it for me. For CC, pettit is
9:56
Speaker 1: not quite there for me. Now Greenky will be Greenky's
9:59
Speaker 1: era plus is the highest of those three, and in fact,
10:03
Speaker 1: you could make the case he had the best career
10:05
Speaker 1: of those pitchers as well. The gold gloves factor into it.
10:09
Speaker 1: But again a lot of the comparisons can be really
10:12
Speaker 1: difficult once you get into the meat of the matter.
10:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, no question about that. The reason I asked you
10:16
Speaker 2: about the team is some people say that if you're
10:18
Speaker 2: a Yankee or a Red Sox, perhaps a car perhaps
10:21
Speaker 2: a Cardinal, perhaps a Cub sometimes as a Dodger, maybe
10:24
Speaker 2: the writers and you are one of those writers, Ken,
10:26
Speaker 2: maybe they give more credence just based on the organization.
10:30
Speaker 3: Is that not fair?
10:32
Speaker 1: That is fair? I'm sure some writers do do that
10:35
Speaker 1: we have a lot of writers voting, and sometimes people
10:38
Speaker 1: make decisions based on things they shouldn't be but that
10:41
Speaker 1: should not factor into the equation at all where a
10:43
Speaker 1: player performs. In many cases, at least for the start
10:47
Speaker 1: of his career, a player does not have the choice.
10:49
Speaker 1: So I would not get caught up in that at all.
10:52
Speaker 1: I do not get caught up in that at all
10:54
Speaker 1: as a voter. It doesn't matter to me. Now, yes,
10:56
Speaker 1: Andy Pettit had more postseason opportunities. You give him credit
10:59
Speaker 1: for that, but you don't penalize others who might not
11:02
Speaker 1: have had those chances.
11:04
Speaker 2: Right, You shouldn't penalize that grinky because the majority of
11:06
Speaker 2: his career really was as a Kansas City Royal, all right?
11:09
Speaker 2: Moving on now from a picture category to a outfielder
11:13
Speaker 2: category or really a position player category.
11:16
Speaker 3: This is hit or miss. Player A.
11:17
Speaker 2: You can see what they did there. Player B you
11:19
Speaker 2: can see what he did there. Stolen bases obviously ops,
11:23
Speaker 2: plus the All Star awards, the Gold Glove awards. You
11:27
Speaker 2: can see what both of those players did.
11:29
Speaker 3: Now.
11:30
Speaker 2: Player A, obviously in hits, has more, the ops is
11:34
Speaker 2: identical ken the All Star and the Gold Gloves higher
11:37
Speaker 2: for player A. But as far as the stolen bases
11:40
Speaker 2: or concerned, player B has more. Let me ask you this,
11:43
Speaker 2: does that matter to you?
11:46
Speaker 1: This is an interesting one. Now. Player A has the
11:51
Speaker 1: better overall resume, and it's not just the hit total,
11:54
Speaker 1: and I don't really care about the stolen bases, which
11:57
Speaker 1: are close, but player B has the advantage. The player
12:02
Speaker 1: A has accomplished more. He did accomplish more in his career.
12:05
Speaker 1: Player B is a legit candidate, and he's someone that
12:09
Speaker 1: maybe should get more consideration that he's getting. I know
12:12
Speaker 1: who the players are. That's why I can say this, all.
12:15
Speaker 2: Right, So let's tell everybody else who the players are
12:17
Speaker 2: as we do the reveal here on Hit or miss.
12:19
Speaker 2: Obviously Player A maybe not obviously, but Ichiro Suzuki, a
12:23
Speaker 2: man that can just go by eachiero and you don't
12:25
Speaker 2: even have to say his last name. Kenny Lofton, A
12:27
Speaker 2: lot of people can comparing the two in terms of
12:31
Speaker 2: not identical numbers clearly, and as you mentioned, EACHIO had
12:34
Speaker 2: the better overall resume. He was also MVP and Rookie
12:37
Speaker 2: of the Year, of course, But Kenny Lofton, I'm wondering
12:40
Speaker 2: in your opinion, and now that our audience knows as well.
12:43
Speaker 2: Does he deserve more consideration than perhaps he has gotten
12:47
Speaker 2: so far.
12:48
Speaker 1: Well, if I'm not mistaken, Lofton is off the ballot.
12:51
Speaker 1: Let me check that while we're talking. But at the
12:53
Speaker 1: same time, centerfielders in general, we have not judged them
12:57
Speaker 1: as well as we should have. And it's not just Lofton,
13:01
Speaker 1: it's Jim Edmonds, it's Bernie Williams. These guys all fell
13:04
Speaker 1: off and it's not right in my opinion. Now, hopefully
13:07
Speaker 1: they'll get consideration in the Veterans Committee and those committees
13:12
Speaker 1: will consider them in a better way. But I'm looking
13:14
Speaker 1: at Kenny Lofton. Now bear with me, folks. I should
13:17
Speaker 1: have had this off the tip of my tongue. Kenny
13:20
Speaker 1: Lofton in his first year on the ballot. Let's see, Yeah,
13:23
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, three point two percent of the vote. That's
13:26
Speaker 1: not enough. You have to get five percent of the vote.
13:29
Speaker 1: And with the era he played in when the ballots
13:34
Speaker 1: were being tabulated in those years, I believe he was
13:36
Speaker 1: twentieth overall that year. I did check this last night,
13:39
Speaker 1: twentieth overall when you can only vote for ten, and
13:42
Speaker 1: the reason was the ballot was too crowded. It was
13:45
Speaker 1: just overwhelmingly crowded. And guys like that. When we're only
13:49
Speaker 1: allowed to vote for ten, and some of us have
13:51
Speaker 1: a problem with that, that's a Hall of Fame rule,
13:53
Speaker 1: it's not a BBWA rule. When you can only vote
13:56
Speaker 1: for ten, you're gonna have guys like this who get shafted.
13:59
Speaker 1: Maybe more memorably, Lou Whittaker was the best example of
14:03
Speaker 1: all of this. He was one and done. Bernie was
14:06
Speaker 1: one and done. Edmonds was one and done. It's not right.
14:08
Speaker 1: Maybe Bernie was two. I can't recall exactly, but there
14:12
Speaker 1: are some players from that particular era, the twenty tens
14:16
Speaker 1: twenty tens, that deserve greater consideration, and Lofton is one
14:21
Speaker 1: of them. He's not eight er roo, no one should
14:23
Speaker 1: pretend that. But that doesn't mean he's not a Hall
14:25
Speaker 1: of Famer, or at least it doesn't mean that he
14:28
Speaker 1: should not get more consideration.
14:31
Speaker 3: That makes sense.
14:32
Speaker 2: Certainly, We're gonna have one more before we get to
14:35
Speaker 2: your Grill and Ken questions, So if you have questions
14:37
Speaker 2: for Ken, please get them in. We'll try to get
14:39
Speaker 2: to those as we can. One more for you, and
14:41
Speaker 2: this is going from the outfield to the infield Ken,
14:44
Speaker 2: this is a mystery infielder player A. You can see
14:46
Speaker 2: the games there. Player B played in more games. Hits
14:50
Speaker 2: almost identical. Player A has eighteen oh five and you
14:53
Speaker 2: have player B with eighteen eighty five ops. The second
14:57
Speaker 2: person a better one postseason ops, second person a better
15:01
Speaker 2: one all Star, second person a better one silver Slugger,
15:05
Speaker 2: second person a better one gold gloves. Player A has four,
15:08
Speaker 2: player B does not. So I ask you this, Ken,
15:12
Speaker 2: if you look at these two numbers, one is obviously
15:16
Speaker 2: probably going to get in the other we don't know,
15:19
Speaker 2: but they're very comparable. So let's go ahead and tell
15:21
Speaker 2: me your thoughts on these just looking at the numbers
15:23
Speaker 2: before we do the reveal.
15:25
Speaker 1: All right, this one is a tough one for me,
15:27
Speaker 1: and I'll explain more when we do the reveal. But
15:31
Speaker 1: the thing that player B does not have here is
15:35
Speaker 1: the volume the player A does. It's four hundred game difference.
15:38
Speaker 1: That's more than two seasons. Maybe you say, hey, that
15:41
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. It's a ten year peak or a six
15:43
Speaker 1: year peak that should matter most. And certainly player B
15:46
Speaker 1: in his career accomplished quite a bit. We as voters
15:50
Speaker 1: are going to have to tackle this particular issue going forward,
15:53
Speaker 1: me in particular because it's one that's really vexed me
15:57
Speaker 1: in this particular election. Maybe we need to consider smaller
16:01
Speaker 1: sample size players in a greater way than we have traditionally.
16:05
Speaker 1: Maybe their careers are shorter now should be influencing the
16:10
Speaker 1: way we think a little bit. Now. It could be
16:13
Speaker 1: shorter because of an injury. It could be shorter because
16:15
Speaker 1: players make more money now they don't have to play
16:17
Speaker 1: as long. But that has to come into consideration. But
16:20
Speaker 1: let's do the reveal and then I'll explain more.
16:23
Speaker 3: Okay, So let's do that reveal that Ken just asked for.
16:26
Speaker 2: And to me, if I'm looking at these just knowing
16:28
Speaker 2: both of these players, to me, they're both all stars.
16:31
Speaker 2: Not necessarily can for the numbers, which obviously you have
16:35
Speaker 2: to take into consideration, but just for what they meant
16:39
Speaker 2: to their team in terms of getting their team to
16:41
Speaker 2: the postseason and those types of things as well. So
16:44
Speaker 2: Dustin Pejoria, obviously the majority of his career, I think
16:46
Speaker 2: all of his career was with the Boston Red Sox.
16:48
Speaker 2: Chase that Lee, known as a Philly would go in
16:50
Speaker 2: as a Philly, spent the latter part of his year,
16:53
Speaker 2: just a couple of years with the Los Angeles Daughters.
16:56
Speaker 3: Now you knew this as far as who that was.
17:00
Speaker 2: How do you look at these two players as Hall
17:02
Speaker 2: of Fame worthy if in fact you.
17:04
Speaker 1: Do, I do. I voted for Utley, did not vote
17:07
Speaker 1: for Pedroia, and Pedroia is one that again I'm going
17:12
Speaker 1: to have to keep looking at and considering because he's
17:14
Speaker 1: a little bit of an unusual case. His career essentially
17:18
Speaker 1: ended because of an injury the Manna Machado slide caused
17:21
Speaker 1: knee problems that he just never could overcome. Should that
17:25
Speaker 1: penalize him in the Hall of Fame voting? And my
17:27
Speaker 1: answer to you would be, really, it shouldn't, right. But
17:31
Speaker 1: here's the problem, And I go back to Kirby Pucket.
17:34
Speaker 1: When Kirby Pucket, of course passed away too early. Unfortunately,
17:38
Speaker 1: I remember he got in right away, at least when
17:41
Speaker 1: he was eligible. Actually I think we made him eligible
17:43
Speaker 1: right away. I can't even recall. But my friend, the
17:46
Speaker 1: late Joe Strauss said to me at that time, this
17:49
Speaker 1: is a mistake. We screwed this up. And I was like, Joe,
17:52
Speaker 1: what are you talking about. Kirby Puckett all time. Great,
17:54
Speaker 1: He's like, no, he does not have the longevity. And
17:57
Speaker 1: if you let him in, then look at domattically, look
18:01
Speaker 1: at all these other guys who are in the same category.
18:04
Speaker 1: So here is the thing. If Pedroya gets in with
18:08
Speaker 1: a smaller sample size a shorter career, then what about
18:13
Speaker 1: players from the past like Mattingly who have very similar cases.
18:18
Speaker 1: And again, this is the quandary we face. I'm not
18:22
Speaker 1: sure what the right answer is. And I always say
18:24
Speaker 1: this with regard to my bowot. I'm not sitting here
18:26
Speaker 1: saying this is the Hall of Fame and who should
18:29
Speaker 1: be in it. No, we all understand as voters that
18:32
Speaker 1: it's subjective and that we don't have all the answers,
18:35
Speaker 1: and one person might have one view of it and
18:38
Speaker 1: another person might have an entirely different view. Dustin Pedroia
18:42
Speaker 1: meets my essential prerequisite of tenure dominance. He did that,
18:48
Speaker 1: but that was really all he did. So I'm not
18:51
Speaker 1: sure where I stand on this going forward. I'm going
18:53
Speaker 1: to take another hard look at it next year. And
18:55
Speaker 1: it's not just Pedroya, it's David Wright, it's Felix Hernandez,
18:58
Speaker 1: all guys who had shorter careers Felix Hernandez. He had
19:02
Speaker 1: a shorter career, most likely because the Mariners abused him early.
19:06
Speaker 1: He was throwing crazy number of innings when he was
19:08
Speaker 1: such a young pitcher. Is that his fault? Should that
19:11
Speaker 1: preclude him from getting into the Hall of Fame? I
19:13
Speaker 1: don't have a good answer for that.
19:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, I tell you what.
19:16
Speaker 2: Having a vote in this as a BBWAA writer is
19:21
Speaker 2: such an honor and a privilege. It's an honor that
19:23
Speaker 2: I don't want. I mean, I don't have a vote,
19:25
Speaker 2: but my god, that what you guys have to go
19:27
Speaker 2: through and think about this. It's a responsibility. I wouldn't
19:30
Speaker 2: want to have more on that coming up in Dude
19:32
Speaker 2: and Dork of the Week. But before we get to
19:34
Speaker 2: Grill and Ken, we're going to be back from a
19:36
Speaker 2: quick word with val Terra's Foul Territories. Todd Frasier, Eric
19:41
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Speaker 2: All right, I appreciate Hunger Root for being a part
20:54
Speaker 2: of the program. Here time now for Grill and Ken
20:57
Speaker 2: and Ken. I'm gonna ask you this. This comes from
21:00
Speaker 2: I believe a Yankee fan, which is not that hard
21:03
Speaker 2: to imagine.
21:03
Speaker 3: But what's the deal actually?
21:05
Speaker 2: First?
21:06
Speaker 3: Before I get to that, here's a question.
21:08
Speaker 2: For Michael Vega. Can we look into the future, how
21:10
Speaker 2: does all of this deferred money affect the Dodgers and
21:13
Speaker 2: say five to ten years as far as a plan
21:15
Speaker 2: is concerned, And they say, forget the future and let's
21:17
Speaker 2: focus on the present. A lot of people wondering this
21:19
Speaker 2: question with all the different deferrals going on.
21:22
Speaker 1: Right, And it's a fair question based on what is
21:25
Speaker 1: going on. But keep in mind, deferrals are not simply
21:29
Speaker 1: a case of putting this off until twenty thirty thirty five.
21:32
Speaker 1: A team has to fund the deferrals in some kind
21:36
Speaker 1: of account two years, I believe, after the contract is
21:40
Speaker 1: signed the second year, So the Dodgers have to put
21:43
Speaker 1: that money away. They're not bankrupting themselves or anything like that. Now,
21:47
Speaker 1: the Commissioner has said, I'm a little concerned about teams
21:50
Speaker 1: that might be deferring a lot of money. But the
21:53
Speaker 1: Dodgers have a lot of money. They're able to put
21:55
Speaker 1: that money away, so in my view, this should not
21:58
Speaker 1: impact them at all. They are making a ton right now,
22:01
Speaker 1: They'll put that money away for the deferrals, and they'll
22:03
Speaker 1: pay it when they need to pay it.
22:05
Speaker 2: Okay. Another question this is regards to the Angels. This
22:09
Speaker 2: comes from Jacob Ciscenaro's do you see the Angels making
22:12
Speaker 2: any other significant moves? It seems that they are trying,
22:15
Speaker 2: but nobody is fighting. Early on in this whole offseason,
22:17
Speaker 2: the Angels were making all the moves. They got signed
22:19
Speaker 2: about five different players, but anything else on the horizon
22:22
Speaker 2: for them.
22:23
Speaker 1: I believe they are in play for a number of
22:25
Speaker 1: free agents right now, and it's just a matter of
22:28
Speaker 1: where the market goes and who might want to play
22:31
Speaker 1: for them. But this is a team that, as opposed
22:35
Speaker 1: to some of us who think they maybe should have
22:36
Speaker 1: taken a step back a couple of years ago or
22:38
Speaker 1: even this year, they don't see it that way. They're
22:40
Speaker 1: trying to compete. They've made moves to compete, Kakuchi being
22:44
Speaker 1: foremost among them. And I would expect that they're going
22:48
Speaker 1: to pick off some players in the weeks ahead. I would.
22:52
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say guarantee it, but I expect it.
22:54
Speaker 2: All right. Another question, I don't even know that we
22:56
Speaker 2: have this one built, but it did come through in
22:58
Speaker 2: the chat.
22:58
Speaker 3: So I'll ask you here.
22:59
Speaker 2: What is the deal with each Hero using just his
23:02
Speaker 2: first name on his jersey all those years? I mean,
23:05
Speaker 2: there's certain people in life, Ken, that can only go
23:07
Speaker 2: by their first name. Each Euro share Madonna Rosenthal, we
23:12
Speaker 2: could just throw it out.
23:12
Speaker 3: We don't even need Ken.
23:13
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so each Heierro just putting Echiro on the
23:18
Speaker 2: jersey a lot.
23:20
Speaker 1: Sometimes when I write a story and I look at
23:22
Speaker 1: the comments and see what people are dwelling on, I think,
23:25
Speaker 1: is that what you took out of this? And when
23:28
Speaker 1: it comes to this question, I don't want to dunk
23:29
Speaker 1: on this person. I guess it's a reasonable question, But
23:32
Speaker 1: is that what we're talking about here? He was a
23:36
Speaker 1: singular player, He had this identity, and Eachiro was Echiro.
23:40
Speaker 1: Like you said, some guys are just known by their
23:42
Speaker 1: first names. And I just never took offence or even
23:46
Speaker 1: thought twice about it. He was Eachiro.
23:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I took offence with something Eachiro related, But that's
23:53
Speaker 2: coming up later in the show. For now, it is
23:56
Speaker 2: time for our dude of the week.
23:59
Speaker 1: Dude, dude, dude, all right.
24:07
Speaker 2: Due to the week is when Ken and I get
24:09
Speaker 2: to talk about somebody that we're proud of, or somebody
24:12
Speaker 2: that we think did something good. I'm actually going to
24:17
Speaker 2: go first on this. My front end, or my front
24:19
Speaker 2: end of the Dude of the week is the writers.
24:22
Speaker 2: And what I say about that is not just the
24:28
Speaker 2: job that you guys have to do, which I just
24:29
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier is a big responsibility, but also the writers
24:33
Speaker 2: that have taken the time to make their ballots public
24:37
Speaker 2: and be able to put themselves in a position to
24:39
Speaker 2: defend what they did, whatever their choices were, to be
24:43
Speaker 2: able to say this is how I chose, and this
24:46
Speaker 2: is why I chose because oftentimes, as journalists can we
24:50
Speaker 2: expect the player to post whether they're zero for five
24:52
Speaker 2: or five for five, if they made an error, if
24:54
Speaker 2: they hit the game winning home run. We expect them
24:57
Speaker 2: to have accountability and allow us to do our jobs.
25:00
Speaker 2: And I feel that the writers that did make their
25:03
Speaker 2: ballots public are doing a service to the community in
25:06
Speaker 2: which they serve. So they are my Dudes of the week.
25:09
Speaker 2: Those that made them public and are willing to defend
25:12
Speaker 2: their choices a.
25:14
Speaker 1: Lot to thank you. But you might be the only
25:16
Speaker 1: person in America who is happy with the writers right now.
25:20
Speaker 1: We always take a heat for a Hall of Fame
25:21
Speaker 1: votes and that's all part of it. And you're right.
25:24
Speaker 1: We ask the players, the general managers, everyone to be accountable.
25:28
Speaker 1: We have to be accountable too, and that's why, even
25:31
Speaker 1: though the Hall does not ever take our suggestion to
25:35
Speaker 1: make all the ballots public and it's their choice, it's
25:38
Speaker 1: their process, we want that and we have it in
25:41
Speaker 1: the awards voting. Everything is public. So I hear you now.
25:45
Speaker 1: My due to the week is a person who had
25:47
Speaker 1: to wait ten years for this honor. And you saw
25:50
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner's reaction when he got the call from Jack
25:53
Speaker 1: O'Connell of the BBWAA, and he was emotional, he couldn't speak.
25:58
Speaker 1: Billy's an emotional guy. But you have to remember here,
26:02
Speaker 1: what goes into this. For ten years, he has waited
26:05
Speaker 1: every year for that call, and you get your hopes
26:08
Speaker 1: up and they get crushed. You get your hopes up,
26:10
Speaker 1: they get crushed. He finally gets in this year after
26:13
Speaker 1: all those years of kind of being in the spotlight,
26:16
Speaker 1: and it's not humiliating, of course, not to be in
26:19
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame, but there's some level of, hey,
26:22
Speaker 1: I wish it was happening. It's public. Let's go so
26:24
Speaker 1: good for him. Billy Wagner much deserving. I voted for him.
26:27
Speaker 1: I believe all ten years he is a Hall of
26:29
Speaker 1: Famer and a deserving one.
26:31
Speaker 3: And nobody can ever take that away from him.
26:33
Speaker 2: And it's certainly some sort of validation I would think
26:35
Speaker 2: for these guys to you know, if you don't get
26:37
Speaker 2: into the Hall of Fame, it's not the end of
26:39
Speaker 2: the world. But for some of these guys, the amount
26:42
Speaker 2: of what that means to them is pretty special. All right,
26:44
Speaker 2: time now for our John Fisher Dork of the Week award.
26:57
Speaker 3: Ken, I'll give you the honors. You start with your
26:59
Speaker 3: dork week first.
27:01
Speaker 1: All right, Alana, it's actually not a person, per se.
27:05
Speaker 1: We both worked at MLB Network. We both endured the
27:09
Speaker 1: mystery of the Shredder. No one knows who the Shredder is.
27:12
Speaker 1: I always thought it was Brian Kenny behind the curtain.
27:14
Speaker 1: He's the Shredder. Well, the Shredder this week did something,
27:17
Speaker 1: even by its own standards, is shocking. Shredder's ranking of
27:23
Speaker 1: shortstops number one. Gunnar Henderson, great player, Seger, Cory Seger,
27:30
Speaker 1: he's in there. Francisco Lindor is in there, and Bobby
27:33
Speaker 1: wit Junior second in the MVP voting is fourth. Now.
27:36
Speaker 1: I know, the Shredder it's not a one year thing,
27:38
Speaker 1: but my gosh, Bobby wit Junior is the best shortstop
27:41
Speaker 1: in the game. I think even Gunner, Seeger and Lindor
27:44
Speaker 1: would admit that the Shredder is my dork of the week.
27:48
Speaker 1: And mister Kenny, I know you've been ripping the writers
27:50
Speaker 1: all week. So here's our little revenge.
27:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, no kidding.
27:54
Speaker 2: In what universe is Bobby Witt Junior not the best
27:58
Speaker 2: shortstop in the game right now?
28:00
Speaker 3: Fourth? Are you out of your mind? Shuddered that?
28:02
Speaker 2: I mean, I sometimes I think they just put these
28:04
Speaker 2: things out there to get a rise out of us,
28:06
Speaker 2: and it worked, because I am I can't believe this,
28:09
Speaker 2: all right, So my dork of the week.
28:11
Speaker 3: We alluded to it a little bit earlier.
28:13
Speaker 2: Ken is the one person, not necessarily male, the one
28:17
Speaker 2: writer who did not vote for each hero Suzuki unanimously
28:22
Speaker 2: to get into the Baseball Hall of Fame. I mean,
28:25
Speaker 2: this is so Mariano Rivera is still the only unanimous
28:29
Speaker 2: person to get into the Hall of Fame. And this
28:31
Speaker 2: is so funny because there was a Eachiro says that
28:35
Speaker 2: he would like to have a word with the one
28:37
Speaker 2: writer that didn't vote him into the Hall of Fame.
28:38
Speaker 2: He wants to have him over to his house to
28:40
Speaker 2: have a drink together and have a good chat. I
28:43
Speaker 2: would also like to have a chat with this person.
28:45
Speaker 2: And again this kind of goes back Ken too. If
28:48
Speaker 2: you're going to be that person that doesn't vote each
28:51
Speaker 2: hero into Cooperstown, you better reveal yourself and you better
28:56
Speaker 2: be accountable as to why. I mean, there's a lot
28:58
Speaker 2: of people on Twitter all the Gonzalez with the ESPN
29:01
Speaker 2: joke that it was him.
29:02
Speaker 3: Obviously it was not.
29:03
Speaker 2: Mark Goodin, who claims to be a writer and a
29:07
Speaker 2: reporter for the New York Mets said it was him.
29:09
Speaker 2: It was not, But this is he's not.
29:11
Speaker 1: A writer, by the way, he's not account.
29:14
Speaker 3: Yes, yes it is, as I as I confirmed with
29:16
Speaker 3: you yesterday.
29:17
Speaker 2: But don't you agree that if you're going to be
29:19
Speaker 2: that one person, you have to be able to explain yourself.
29:24
Speaker 1: Well, in perfect world, that would be great. Now, I
29:27
Speaker 1: will say this, Solani. It might have heard out there
29:29
Speaker 1: the people listening my rant about this yesterday. I don't
29:32
Speaker 1: think this is the biggest deal in the world. But
29:33
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. That person is the dork of the week.
29:35
Speaker 1: That's not even in question. But I will say this,
29:38
Speaker 1: The voting body this year consisted of three hundred and
29:41
Speaker 1: ninety four people. Three hundred and ninety three of them
29:44
Speaker 1: voted for ichi Ro. So when you gather three hundred
29:48
Speaker 1: and ninety four people in any setting and you ask
29:51
Speaker 1: for unanimous agreement, it's pretty rare. So I thought we
29:54
Speaker 1: did pretty well to get to three ninety three out
29:57
Speaker 1: of three ninety four, and honestly said that, But you
30:01
Speaker 1: think Hro is losing sleep over one person not voting
30:04
Speaker 1: for him. He's a first ballot Hall of Famer, he's
30:05
Speaker 1: an all time great, and I don't believe he actually cares. No.
30:10
Speaker 2: I don't either, but I think it was funny that
30:12
Speaker 2: he brought it up, like, really, dude, like I'd love
30:14
Speaker 2: to know, I'd love to know who the person was
30:16
Speaker 2: that did not vote for me. All right, before we
30:19
Speaker 2: let you go and say goodbye, let's shut out our
30:21
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30:24
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Speaker 2: going to do it for Ken and I here on
31:01
Speaker 2: Fair Territory with Ken Rosenthal. Thank you guys so much
31:03
Speaker 2: for being with us. Ken, thanks for all of your
31:05
Speaker 2: insight on the Hall of Fame stuff. We appreciate it.
31:07
Speaker 2: Don't forget, guys. Foul Territory is next. Aj Pierzinski, Eric Krat,
31:12
Speaker 2: Scott Brown, host Jack Flaherty is gonna enjoin Ryan Yarborough's
31:16
Speaker 2: gonna join Mandy Bell, who covers The Guardian.
31:18
Speaker 3: She's on as well.
31:19
Speaker 2: Dodger's Territory follows that with Clinton, myself and Chris Taylor.
31:24
Speaker 2: We'll stop by and don't forget. Ken is one of
31:26
Speaker 2: the hosts Ken as you are for the BBWAA Awards
31:30
Speaker 2: dinner Saturday live on Foul Territory. So don't forget grab
31:34
Speaker 2: your coat, Ken
31:35
Speaker 3: Because you're going back to the cold.