Latest / The Magic Guys / Radek Hoffman On The Art of Revealing! #264

Transcript

Radek Hoffman On The Art of Revealing! #264 · The Magic Guys

0:00
They do magic. They are the Magic Guys.
0:12
Hello friends, this is Nick Kay and welcome to the Magic Guys episode 264.
0:17
Right now I am the only Magic Guy in the game. Reason being is that we are starting
0:21
the show a little earlier than we ordinarily do just to accommodate for our
0:25
amazing guest that we have today. So both Josh and Doug do send their love.
0:30
They have prior commitments and weren't able to be here sooner,
0:32
but they do send their love.
0:34
But of course, we did not want to miss the opportunity to meet our amazing guest
0:38
today because he's actually currently in Poland, but traveling around a whole
0:41
bunch and about to make a journey over to the US to do some performing and so forth.
0:47
And so we took this opportunity to get a hold of him real quick as he's currently
0:51
broadcasting from Poland and be joining us shortly.
0:53
But first, let me tell you who our guest is. Friends, our guest is someone who
0:58
doesn't just perform magic.
0:59
He thinks about magic in a completely different level.
1:03
He's the creator of this wonderful book I'm holding called The Art of Revealing.
1:07
This isn't just another magic book, friends. It's not just filled with tricks.
1:11
It is a deep dive on how and why we reveal magic to ensure that you produce
1:17
the most amazing reactions possible, the psychology behind it,
1:20
and what separates a good trick from something unforgettable.
1:23
And here to talk all about it. friends join me in welcoming our guest Radek Hoffman.
1:40
I will share with you some ideas regarding the how to review. Hold up, Radek.
1:45
You got ahead of the intro, buddy. Let the intro roll in. So friends.
1:49
Please applaud our friend Radek. Please tell us who are you and what do you do once again?
1:54
Okay, great. So my name is Radek Hoffman. I'm a mentalist and magician for over 20 years.
1:59
And today I'll share with you some ideas regarding how to review information
2:05
and drawings, but most importantly yourself to the audience.
2:09
I think that's a very important topic also to talk about.
2:13
Yeah, I think it's one of the things you touch upon the book really,
2:15
really well when you're revealing information, because sometimes people can just do it blatantly.
2:20
And we had the conversation last week when we interviewed the amazingly talented
2:24
Christopher Carter, where when you look at some people, especially in the realm of mentalism,
2:28
where you would see an amateur do a trick and it would just feel like they would
2:32
say, please write this down so I can peek it and reveal what you said later.
2:36
And there was no context to it there's nothing that has any feeling or
2:40
emotion to that so i guess let's
2:43
start off by talking about what was the core problem
2:46
with regards to revealing magic that you saw
2:49
when you decided to write your book the
2:52
art of revealing yeah so first of all i was collecting the interesting reviews
2:56
for myself for the shows i was actually working on and then i realized that
3:02
i have so many ideas that that would be good for you to put them together and
3:06
to write the book about the reveals because all the time in my life that i was
3:10
obsessed about interesting,
3:12
moments of wonderful hour people and then i realized how do you think to design them.
3:19
Correctly and make sure that they are memorable for the audience so that's what i think.
3:25
Yeah and i think i think that's one of the things you do and one of the things
3:28
you sort of touch upon in the book that's interesting is like how people learn magic.
3:34
And why did you think that was kind of relevant with regards to how it's revealed
3:38
learning magic versus how it's revealed?
3:41
Yeah, so my awesome background is not just magic, but also I was practicing
3:45
parkour, gymnastics, dance.
3:47
And I think if you have a different background like this, very often you have
3:52
a different kind of point of view about magic and how you can reveal information, for example.
3:57
So for me, that was a natural progression like that.
4:00
And I believe if you are a magician, mentally, it's good to have some kind of
4:05
different hobby that you can go for the different world, different kind of email.
4:11
Worlds of passion and then just to absorb that
4:14
and transmit it to the magic you do i think
4:17
that you're helpful and you have that fresh look of what
4:20
you're doing you know i'm reminded of a conversation i
4:23
had with raymond crow many years ago who asked what
4:26
else do you do and i told him you know i i this
4:29
and that i play i played in a band we all drink when we say that so i have a
4:33
musical background i play guitar and he said he goes is it in your act i said
4:37
no and he goes well you're an idiot it was and that was polite he called me
4:41
an idiot but that was actually a lot more polite than what he actually called
4:44
me and yeah and then he just really promoted,
4:47
that there are certain ways you can like do things that have that influence
4:50
and a lot of people don't think about that so what is it about having other
4:56
influences that help create these moments.
5:00
Because I think if you're living just in the magic world, very often it's quite boring, to be fair.
5:06
But if you look for different passions, like for example, for me,
5:10
it was parkour gymnastics.
5:11
I was well-educated how to move and how to see myself in the space.
5:16
So I use that knowledge to design interesting images on stage,
5:20
using people, create the choreography with them.
5:24
And that helps a lot to have a different point of view for how you actually
5:29
can work on stage because i'm usually working on stage so this is why i'm transferring
5:33
that on stage i could totally agree with you when it comes to stage how there's an
5:38
amazing abundance of people and i've seen it through actors i've
5:41
seen it through so many different people that they just
5:44
lack this spatial awareness where they're
5:48
kind of unaware and it you know and you'd have to be on stage to appreciate
5:52
the spatial awareness you can be a table hopping magician and just be very aware
5:56
that the table over there is going to get wind of you entertaining this one
6:00
table here and it's just going to help you propagate going from table to table to table.
6:06
Yeah but also when we talk about the gestures
6:09
how you move how you stand if you're straight or
6:12
maybe you don't care about how your posture looks
6:15
like if you have a good body awareness this is so natural that you know you
6:19
always think to be straight you know how to move your hands you know you don't
6:24
have to rush the movement very often when people do some kind of slide of hands
6:28
they rush too much but if you did slowly have your own rhythm that's much more,
6:34
interesting and nice i think to watch
6:37
for people yeah i've seen people stand on stage
6:40
i remember when i was first mentoring this young guy he he
6:43
was complaining that the stage was making noise and that's because when he stood
6:47
on stage he stood right between these two slats of the stage where the stage
6:51
joined and when he stood he was rocking his weight back and forth left and right
6:56
when he spoke and and then he complained and he said can we do something about
7:00
this stage making noise and I went, yeah, stay still.
7:04
And so, and so I'm just curious, would you say that if anybody was going to
7:10
make an instant change that levels up their performance or their presence on
7:14
stage, would you say that just the way they hold themselves would probably be
7:17
the first step or one of the first steps?
7:19
I think movement is very important. So to be fair, our primal communication is based on movement.
7:26
Then we put the language and all that stuff.
7:28
So how you move, how you gesture, I think it's crucial to have a good and powerful
7:33
conversation with the audience without using words before we even do anything.
7:38
So how you approach, for example, imagine it's an empty stage,
7:41
you walk on stage. So that's the first moment you are judged by people.
7:45
So you could do it right or you can do it without the awareness and then your
7:49
beginning of the show could be not that powerful that you think you are.
7:54
So for the folks who are about to grace the stag, there's some people that are
7:57
listening right now that could be walking on stage, possibly for the very first
8:00
time within the next couple of weeks.
8:02
What advice do you have for those folks who do that?
8:05
So first of all, never rush to start your performance.
8:08
For me, it's very important. When I'm walking on stage, I need to make sure
8:12
that they know I know that I'm waiting for that moment that they'll be ready.
8:16
And if they're ready for me, then I can start my show. because it's some kind
8:22
of like an urge in most of the people that they want to just go straight with the material.
8:26
Now, if you start with your best trick, but if the audience is not ready,
8:31
you just lose your best trick.
8:33
If you establish the connection first and you know they are ready,
8:37
then you do anything. But without that, I think it's fine.
8:41
That first connection, that first kind of authority building process is very important.
8:48
But you're doing this without words so that's
8:51
why movement is so important what about
8:54
breath one of the things that i've loved with
8:57
my studies of of stagecraft is studying people like
9:00
ovner and ovner has always been a big thinker when it comes to breath because
9:05
a lot of people get on stage and they hold their breath in and it looks tense
9:10
when they're holding their breath in because they're scared they like just you
9:12
know make sure breathe and speak loud and they just hold in their breath the
9:16
whole time and it's just tension as they're talking about it and even though they're,
9:20
breathing in and out there's this tension in their chest and so do you think
9:23
the breath also has another factor yeah.
9:27
Yes, definitely. Like, breathing is your power source for the voice.
9:31
So if you know how to breathe correctly, that's definitely very helpful.
9:36
Once I heard that very interesting quote, that how you can find the most powerful guy in the room.
9:42
This is probably the guy who had the most calm breathing moment when you just
9:47
exhale and inhale without, you know, rushing anything.
9:51
So that's the most powerful guy in the room because he doesn't care. He just breathes.
9:56
That's really interesting. I was performing just a week ago and I walked past
10:00
some people and it was the weirdest interaction and they went,
10:04
oy, and I was, which is a very common way to get addressed here in Australia.
10:08
And I look back and I go, hello.
10:11
They just went, you look interesting.
10:16
And I said, I am interesting. And they go,
10:21
there's something about you, man. And I was like, yeah, there is.
10:25
And I just was really playing coy with them. And then in the end,
10:29
it was just like, how come you have this aura about you?
10:33
And I went, well, I'm the entertainment.
10:35
And they went, no way. And I was just like, yeah. And then I ended up making
10:38
friends with these guys to the point where the residency that I was at for the
10:41
next two days in a row, they came back two days in a row.
10:44
And I think it just goes to show how much strength there has in you being able
10:49
to hold yourself and the way you walk about and the way you breathe.
10:53
So that is a very, very important thing. The composure is very important to
10:58
be in the great composure and don't sling too much, but also don't posturing yourself.
11:04
So being in that balance of natural state of good composure is, I think, important.
11:10
And it's kind of important to find what works for you or makes it genuine. There's something...
11:15
You know, there's not something, something genuine, like it's okay that in a
11:18
moment you can, you can be like this, but then as the routine goes on,
11:21
something might happen that causes you to slump your shoulders.
11:25
There might be an embarrassing moment for you, you know, so it's not about like,
11:29
so I guess when you, when you say that the physical entity of yourself is communicating
11:34
so much of yourself, it's okay in the middle of a routine that you make a mistake
11:38
and you drop your shoulders, or there's a magician in trouble moment.
11:41
Like it's, you can't be boastful all the time if you're going to be wrong.
11:44
So it's a very dynamic process when you think about it like this.
11:48
Yeah, of course. It's all depending on the context of the moment that I'm actually in.
11:54
To be natural, it's a flow of the motions and also the plot you're presenting.
11:59
Yeah. And I think that in the chat, we have Scotty Link who says,
12:02
own your space. And I think that is a really, really good advice.
12:04
And even funnier point here is from our friend, Scotty P, who said,
12:07
I had a squeaky stage issue. It turns out it was his old hips.
12:14
That's a good point. I got a knee that cracks like a glow stick and doesn't
12:19
glow. It's kind of upsetting. So I know exactly how you feel.
12:23
Now, presence aside, when we start constructing routines, and I think that everything
12:31
that in your book covers not only just doing magic routines and so forth, because,
12:36
I've had so many conversations since reading your book, and I read it some while ago.
12:39
And in truth, I should have reached out to you earlier, but it is one
12:42
of those things that you really need to let marinate when you come to revealing this
12:46
type of information and what i'm sort
12:49
of curious about is i've wondered with regards
12:52
to method versus reveal and the correlations between the two do you ever think
12:57
that the method could almost ruin a reveal or is the method not important as
13:02
the like what correlations could you make between the two so i like to have
13:08
good and crazy methods but To be fair, when I'm performing,
13:12
if this is the easy way of doing something, if it's ergonomic and you have a
13:18
very powerful impact, for me that's the best method because I want to be relaxed on stage.
13:24
I want to just focus on the presentation. I don't want to be stressed about the method.
13:28
If that electronic gizmo doesn't work or something like that,
13:32
I just want to just relax, deliver the best entertainment you can have.
13:36
And this is why simple methods sometimes are the best.
13:41
Absolutely. I really agree with that.
13:44
What I'm also curious about is that when we look at revealing the types of information,
13:48
and I think that your book covers this really, really well, can we talk about
13:52
some of the things in the book that we talk about with regards to the types of information?
13:56
Yeah. So first of all, I was thinking that we have two types of different information.
14:01
One is that we can force the specific information or image of drawing, whatever it is.
14:08
So having that advantage that we know in advance what it is,
14:12
we can design more interesting images because we can control that.
14:17
But the second type of information is when you pick some private information
14:22
and then we don't have that freedom of designing those moments.
14:26
So we need to rely on different kinds of tools like how we can embrace emotions
14:31
or how we can create interesting frame for that revelation.
14:37
So I think that knowledge between these two types of information and treat them
14:42
differently, there's a good advantage if you know how you deliver both.
14:49
And sort of receiving that information, the next step, obviously,
14:55
is how you go about revealing it.
14:59
And you could break it down very simply, and you can also break it down with meaning.
15:04
So I have an example that I had sort of made up during conversation with a friend
15:10
of mine that we were working on this particular routine.
15:12
He showed me a card trick that was very ordinary.
15:14
But so let's, let's, let's use this as an example. So a friend of mine was performing
15:18
this card trick and he, he was doing the handling and basically he's been like,
15:23
you got a card, terrific spell the card.
15:26
And now it's that, that's your card. And I was like, cool.
15:30
And he was like, what do you think? And I said, I think it's a card trick.
15:34
I think it's a card trick. And he was like, well, you know what?
15:39
It gets great reactions. And I said, I don't doubt it doesn't,
15:43
but you're showing it to me.
15:45
And you're asking me, what do I think? And what you're not asking is,
15:50
what do you think would make it better?
15:53
And so the card in its simplest form was a card is selected in the deck.
15:58
They spell it or you spell a word is the way I see it is the pillar and you
16:04
have a reveal. So that's the case study. Okay.
16:06
So let's you and I jam this real quick, right? Because I'll tell you what your
16:10
book influenced me to do. All right.
16:12
So I said, all right, let's say we're performing and let's say we have two people, right?
16:19
And if they're an older couple, here's what I would do. I would say,
16:23
they say I would do the exact trick.
16:25
I would get her name and I would control the card to be spelt in her name.
16:30
Let's say her name is Sarah for the sake of this explanation.
16:33
Card would go in, give it a shuffle. I'd even ask him to cut the deck.
16:37
You know, I can do a replacement with a breather or whatever it might be.
16:40
Put it on the table and then say, you know, they say a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
16:46
I want you to spell this beautiful lady's name and they spell her name.
16:50
And then there's the reveal so now you got this little connection between
16:54
the couple and it's like and you can just make a reveal you
16:57
oh you guys are so in sync that's adorable that was
17:00
one very basic version and then i could say something like and then i
17:03
thought here's a funny way of doing it all right this is just off the
17:05
top of my head we're more having we're doing this over pizza okay so
17:09
i said young couple how'd you meet if
17:12
they go we met on tinder sick what you could do is do the
17:15
exact same thing right where the
17:17
mask control to the name then what i did was
17:20
i go spread the deck and then ask her
17:23
to and then ask him to spell her name but you swipe
17:26
left s a r a h
17:29
and then swipe right and when he swipes right he puts the card towards her you
17:34
square up the deck and then go what was your card and then boom so it's kind
17:37
of like see when you swipe right in the right the right girl you get the right
17:41
card like it's just you guys are meant to be so all of a sudden I've added meaning
17:45
to something as simple as a spelling card trick.
17:48
And it's just through the principles taught in this book that influenced me to do that.
17:53
So with that little bit of knowledge...
17:56
Let's talk about the ways to reveal information.
18:01
Yeah, so first of all, I want to say one thing that very often people ask me
18:05
why most in magic or mentories.
18:10
And during the time of my career, the answer was changing.
18:14
But recently I was thinking about that question again, and then I realized that
18:18
I love magic because using the lies, you can tell the truth.
18:22
And I think this is a great example of how you can use the trick Just like as
18:26
a vehicle to deliver sometimes deep ideas or moments for people.
18:32
But the trick itself is not important. It's just the tool to give you that experience
18:39
or give you that idea, whatever it is. But this is not that important.
18:44
So, yeah, we're just using lies to tell the truth very often.
18:48
If the structure is right. Right.
18:51
But there are so many beautiful ways to do a reveal. So for example,
18:55
there's ways that you mentioned in the book that I hadn't really given a lot of thought to.
19:00
So we have like visual ways of revealing things. We have sound. Yeah.
19:06
Yeah. So let's explore some of those with our audience. Oh, actually,
19:09
before we do, we have a question that just came in from Scotty P,
19:12
which says, as a creator and a performer, do you get more satisfaction from one or the other?
19:17
And where does your passion lie? Is a passion more in being an author or more so as a performer? Yeah.
19:24
I think both. Recently, I did the lecture tour in France for like a month,
19:28
and I realized teaching other people my material actually embraced my material
19:34
because I need to talk about the same thing all over again, and then I can see, okay,
19:40
I can tweak that thing to make it better, and then I can change this.
19:43
So even if I'm doing magic for magicians while I do the lecture tour,
19:49
for example, are actually learning by myself about how to improve the material that I own.
19:55
So that's also another way of improving yourself every single time.
19:59
But most of the time, I just like to just perform and being on stage.
20:04
For me, stage is the most amazing place to be.
20:09
All right. So I think that in your book, and like when I was reading the types
20:13
of disclosure that we have, so let's talk about the types of ways we can reveal
20:18
things and some examples of.
20:19
So for example, in the book, you mentioned like kinesthetic.
20:23
So actually using physicality to do a reveal.
20:26
What's an example of that you could tell with our audience?
20:29
I think we can reveal that with the flashlights. That's the piece from the book
20:35
that a lot of people love it, actually, and asking for permission to use that.
20:39
Or you want to keep it just closer.
20:41
I just want to say on record that I was wishing you wouldn't tell them this because this is so good.
20:46
This is like, no, you've got to tell them. It's literally worth the price of the book alone.
20:52
Like it's just staggering how clever this reveal is. I was going to build up
20:55
to this and try and crescendo it, but this is like, you're just giving them,
20:58
you're giving them the gold right now, Radix, so go for it.
21:01
Well, that can give you another one which is quite similar, but not on that kind of scale.
21:05
So imagine you forcing the information, I don't know, maybe the whole routine
21:10
is about your secrets, right? Everyone has some kind of secret.
21:16
And you're forcing the secret, which is, I don't know, running naked in the
21:22
winter in the snow. Nick K is a stripper. Go.
21:25
Reveal that. But basically, it's the snow involved, and that's the main core of the secret, right?
21:33
And you have the path and you have someone to just close your eyes and imagine
21:37
you are the hero of that story and try to,
21:41
create as many details as you can about that specific moment in life and then
21:48
you take your path and you try to write.
21:52
Their thoughts but actually stop you remove
21:55
the page you tear it in the pieces people don't
21:58
know actually it look like you just destroyed the
22:01
wrong prediction but actually collect small pieces and
22:05
you create the snow and then you said okay so without opening your eyes just
22:10
said that was the secret you're speaking of i was running naked in snow okay
22:16
and then you throw and open your eyes and you can see the small pieces to create the snow around him.
22:22
And that's kind of a revelation you can use.
22:25
As the snow falls, you're also naked. That's a reveal. That'll be a double surprise, yeah.
22:35
But that was just a quick example of how you can use the simple props like a
22:40
pad and just to break the expectations. You can remove the page,
22:44
you can tear it, or maybe you can create the origami or whatever it is.
22:47
But the old reviews I treat, that was based on the same idea.
22:53
People, they have their own expectations of what's going to happen.
22:56
And usually it's the guy with pen and paper who writes down what that guy is
23:00
thinking of. That's the main premise.
23:03
They know that story. So how you can break that story.
23:06
And then you have, you know, loads of stuff you can do with that.
23:11
But that's, for me, the main principle. I'm not saying that revealing the world
23:16
or I don't know the number on the pad is wrong, but if your show is based on that,
23:23
and all you can see is the guy with pen on paper revealing the numbers,
23:26
letters it's quite a boring show.
23:30
Because they know the premise and they expect to happen Yeah,
23:35
there's just this audience expectation where it's just like he's going to write
23:38
down the reveal again, how cool, you know but if you can have an outcome that's that,
23:44
grandiose and that yeah yeah another thing is that when people see the trick
23:51
doesn't matter it's magic or mentalism,
23:54
They try to predict what's going to happen next. Even if they don't know the
23:58
method, if they predict the outcome, and the outcome is exactly what they predict,
24:04
I think it's not the real moment of surprise.
24:06
It's not that real moment of wonder that we are chasing for.
24:09
But if you give them the, for example, it's A and B, and they try to predict
24:14
the D, but also you have C and D, and that's the extra layer of that,
24:18
that's the real moment of surprise because they don't know that actually C or D even exists.
24:24
So I think we need to construct the reviews like that.
24:28
I'm also staggered that you did know that I actually have run in the snow naked.
24:32
Like that is pretty impressive.
24:36
I am. I did it. I did it in Canada. So thank you. That's really cool.
24:41
So that was your situation. Yeah. How did you know? You're thinking of a city?
24:47
I am. That was a pre-show.
24:50
Pre-show is one of those things that has so much strength
24:53
and there's not an abundance of information out
24:56
there on that you know other than for myself
25:00
i mean i i mean look there's there's some notions of it out there but the only
25:03
person who's really given it a good crack with regards to writing it i would
25:07
say he's probably arcy when you know with his book before the show do you have
25:10
any do you have any advice for people who are considering implementing some
25:16
pre-show into their into their work,
25:18
Yeah, I think don't overuse that because you can see it very often in that TV
25:24
shows that people overuse the pre-show all over again.
25:29
Sometimes it's good if they see a little bit of the process.
25:34
That's fine. But if you do everything based on pre-show, there's a very high
25:38
chance that somehow those people are going to reveal some stuff that they're not supposed to reveal.
25:46
So you need to be very careful with that. It's like a song, we have two sides,
25:52
so we need to be very careful how we can use that song.
25:55
Yeah, I agree with that. So we've gone over some visual ways to reveal.
26:01
We've done movement with the get some reveal. One of the things that I really
26:05
like that you touched upon was talking about sound.
26:07
Using sound to do some certain reveals. It's not really a lot of things,
26:12
something that people really think about.
26:13
What's some of the strongest ways you've revealed or done reveals with sounds?
26:18
So one of them, there was a close-up idea that you force basically the song
26:25
and you do like a joint duplication, but with the whole video clip and the sound.
26:32
So you ask them to go to YouTube and to find that song and you do the same thing.
26:36
And one, two, three, you play that song. So you not only have the same clip
26:40
of the song, but also you have the same sound.
26:43
We have a matching image and sound at the same time.
26:46
Very often you can use also your hands and your feet to just create a simple.
26:53
Basic melody for example We Will Rock You is a great example that everyone knows
26:58
that you can easily recreate that so chasing that interesting simple music that
27:03
we all know and implementing them in the reveal also could be part of that,
27:09
A great example is also the routine from Luke Jeremiah, when he uses the sound
27:14
of this, this, to create the sound of rain.
27:18
That's also interesting, I think, how you can do that.
27:22
One of my favorites is that example, this is described in the book with the rock.
27:28
It's actually linking so many ideas. So imagine you throwing a paper ball to
27:33
the audience, and someone is catching that, and you have them to join you on stage.
27:38
And then you force on that person famous celebrity which is Dwayne Johnson's The Rock, right?
27:44
So you collect the ball you put it on the table, then you bring the pad and you ask them okay,
27:50
so you force of course using any kind of method you like Dwayne Johnson's The
27:55
Rock and you ask them, okay to make sure you know what it is,
27:57
write it down big capital letters and hold it like that and then I try to,
28:02
read his mind, but I'm failing on that, is that.
28:06
I don't know. Say that, what was the celebrity? Dwayne Johnson's The Rock.
28:12
Oh, that's interesting.
28:13
And then I'm holding the potato ball that I used to select him.
28:18
I said, do you remember that I throw that ball towards you and you catch it
28:21
and you was the random person?
28:23
I said, yeah, that's interesting. Could you give me a hand like this?
28:28
And I placed the potato ball in the hands and said, can you feel that it's actually
28:33
getting heavier and heavier? I said, yeah.
28:36
Oh that's interesting and when i unwrap it that paper ball you can see the like
28:41
a big rock just hitting down on the floor and there's a there's a rock so we
28:46
have the visual moment you have that.
28:48
Sense of touch that you feel the weight of that and then you unwrap it and there
28:53
is a rock falling off the paper to the wall to the floor yeah so when you so
28:58
when you break that down yeah yeah Yeah.
29:02
Yeah. So, and that's kind of leads into this question here from Adonis.
29:05
So Adonis is asking, what are your thoughts on multiple reveals of the same
29:08
information, like drawing or a word?
29:11
Oh, okay. Removing the same, like revealing the same information, but multiple times.
29:17
So this is the, actually, I think that Bearglass was master of.
29:22
He was using the same words and basically repeating the same revelation,
29:30
but in a different way each time.
29:32
But there was the same information revealed three times in a row.
29:36
So a great example of that was something that came from Darren Brown when he
29:41
revealed the word influential, but in so many different elements.
29:46
That was the same word, the same review, but in a different way.
29:51
But each time was even bigger and bigger and more.
29:55
Inevitable so i think it's you
29:59
need to find the sweet spots when is enough to
30:03
do it so you need to find that right balance between
30:06
amount of how many times you want to do it because if you did i don't know 10
30:11
times in a row people like come on like again but if it's like a three times
30:15
but each time is bigger and more surprising that's i think absolutely fine actually
30:20
in my show when I did in Chicago Magic Lunge, I did something similar with the world.
30:25
So that was the book test, kind of like a crazy book test with the term test.
30:30
And then the first revelation was that was the envelope under the chair that someone is sitting.
30:35
But actually, they choose that chair. And that was the only chair that contained
30:38
the envelope under that chair. But that was the big revelation of the world.
30:42
And then there was another surprise in the second book they didn't choose.
30:46
But then I said, but we are intelligent people.
30:49
So maybe you are thinking that under that table, because the table was covered
30:53
with a big cloth, maybe someone that prepared that prediction,
30:58
put it inside and just put it under your chair which is possible.
31:02
So then I said okay, now it's big time to remove the cloth, you can see it's,
31:07
nothing under that table, right?
31:09
And then I have that person to stand up and hold the corner of that cloth.
31:12
Now that was a three meter long and one meter and a half high piece of the material.
31:19
And then, if I know that person is holding one corner by the way,
31:24
all the work, whatever and then I just pull it out and we have a big predation,
31:28
like a three meter long filling the whole stage and that was the final.
31:34
Revelation, but there was growing, growing, growing, but I used everything around me to,
31:41
for the revelation, so first of all the chair was the part of the routine,
31:45
even the table, even the cloth was the part of the routine so I was not putting
31:49
any extra boxes, envelopes but the whole environment around me was the revelation. Wow.
31:57
I've only ever really done multiple revelations with regards to.
32:02
I've got some new stuff which I've created, but there's a routine that I retired
32:05
and I'm going to share it because it's really dumb and really funny. So I'm going to share it.
32:09
So it was based, so the premise of the routine was that like growing up, we didn't have a lot.
32:15
And for some of them, like, no, that's really changed is what I said.
32:18
But we had each other growing up and we used to play games all the time.
32:21
And one of my favorite games was a game called Mad Libs. You ever played it?
32:25
So it's a really fun, fun way of sort of like you get these
32:27
stories right and the stories have incomplete sentences and
32:31
you have people add words random words that then
32:34
make a complete story and it's quite fun and each story is accompanied with
32:37
a like a front cover and the problem is as a child that I was always I was impatient
32:44
and I would always color in the front cover before it ever matched what the
32:49
story was actually going to be and it never actually matched um what the story was going to be.
32:54
But I have a good feeling about tonight. And that's the premise.
32:56
So I have a front cover and a story, which we are doing simultaneously through this routine.
33:01
And so there's all these different colored pieces of paper that need to go filling
33:05
in these gaps to make this complete story.
33:07
So like, I need a verb, I need a doing word, I need an action,
33:09
I need a name, I need a location.
33:12
And that makes effectively a confabulation. And the confabulation is accompanied
33:16
with a front cover, which is a color match routine.
33:21
And one of the bits of the routine, I go, oh yeah, it says here,
33:25
whatever's written on the purple piece of paper is going to be the logo on our hero's chest.
33:30
Cause the hero was, the story was called hero of the city.
33:34
And the person opens up the piece of paper and it says, dick.
33:37
And I'm like, excuse me? So either it says dick or it says penis or it says
33:41
wiener or it says something phallic.
33:44
And I go, okay. And then I have to draw a dick on this chest of this superhero. And then we color it in.
33:53
This superhero with a big green dick on his chest. And then we do the whole revelation.
33:58
We start reading the story. And the story is hilarious. Like it's got silly
34:02
words in it and it's very funny.
34:03
And everyone's laughing it's a laugh every 10 seconds right and at
34:06
the end of the last paragraph is like i never got a chance to thank my
34:09
hero but he had a yellow mask you know orange shirt
34:12
blah blah blah this is that and a big green dick on
34:15
his chest and then you gesture to the thing and everyone freaks out and they
34:19
have and they have a big laugh and then i'm like oh but that's the thing there's
34:22
a there's a an envelope with a big question mark been to the whole show and
34:26
then we take it down and then i open it up and then it's a comic book you know and the comic book is you
34:32
know, a hero with a blah, blah, blah, and a big green dick in his chest,
34:35
you know? And it's like Dickman. So it's like this Dickman comic.
34:38
And that's, so then that gets a laugh, right? And then I finished the show and
34:42
I say like, did you have a good time? Yes.
34:44
Did you see some good magic? And then I go, well, with good magic and I do this
34:48
and I wipe, I can't wipe my eyes, let me with my hat, cause I got it hidden in my hat.
34:51
And then I cover my face and I'm wearing this yellow mask.
34:55
And then I go with great magic comes great responsibility. And I
34:58
give this whole kevin costner's speech with this buildup of music and i start
35:01
taking all my clothes off and then i'm wearing the dick man costume and then
35:05
my assistant comes out with a with a leaf blower and he and so i've got a cape
35:09
and and then i run around with my arms out because i remember seeing this cartoon
35:13
with this guy called freakazoid and he can't fly but he runs with his arms out like he can
35:17
and i just thought that was very funny and so like i run and then i run around
35:21
the stage with my arms out like i'm flying and everyone's just dying of laughter
35:24
and then i leave the show put in a bathrobe and then i thank everyone for coming
35:28
to the show but that's how i used to end like my shows,
35:32
during comedy fest and so forth and so i retired the routine.
35:37
As i'm a little more a classier magician being 41 years of age now so,
35:42
but yeah it just goes to show like how you can crescendo
35:45
something so ridiculously although it's
35:48
the same information but it just makes for a fun time for
35:52
me it's like you know building routine with small blocks
35:55
you just need to move some blocks and add some extra elements and
35:58
then you elevate the routine because basically what
36:02
we need is not to know more methods but to find a way how to stack the blocks
36:08
together to create the interesting image for the audience you know what i'm
36:12
curious i'm curious how you test if reveals are strong or not.
36:21
Is there a way of you testing if a reveal is going to be strong or not?
36:25
First of all, I'm trying to trust my gut feeling because very often we as human
36:31
beings think that we are so special, so unique, but very often we are very similar to each other.
36:37
So you have a gut feeling that this could work. Very often it's going to work.
36:41
This is sometimes not the problem of the premise or revelation,
36:45
but how you deliver that. So timing, pacing, how we expose that,
36:51
if it's the right color, maybe.
36:53
So those small changes that can actually influence the outcome.
36:57
But yeah, I have a small group of magic friends that various and I ship some ideas with them.
37:03
And basically, I try to test the new stuff in the open mics for magicians.
37:09
We have some few in Poland.
37:12
And that's the best way of doing it. and then you can polish that and then add to your show.
37:18
Another thought that I had with regards to reveals is I was wondering if the
37:24
too perfect theory could ruin a reveal.
37:27
Could you reveal something so perfectly that it weakens the actual effect?
37:32
It ruins the mystery because it's just too perfect.
37:36
I wonder if it applies to the future. Very old question and it's not an easy
37:42
answer for that. Because if we can design those moments perfectly,
37:46
sometimes they're too good to destroy them.
37:51
But sometimes, as you said, they are perfect to believe. And that's the,
37:54
again, you need to find, I think, that sweet spot where you're supposed to maybe
38:00
ask for, you know, mistake to make it more believable.
38:05
I think mistakes in mentally, they are fine. They actually make this more interesting
38:12
for the audience. Thank you.
38:14
Yeah it's really interesting yeah let's explore that real quick because i've
38:19
got you know i've got a friend my friend brendan dueling and i we talk about
38:22
it a lot and one of the things that that we say with regards to our character
38:26
is that we can't like we can't be wrong,
38:29
like they pay us too much to not be perfect and it's like i really this it's
38:35
really hard to sort of shake that when that's their expectation of you like
38:38
they expect you to be this like all wonderful being human being and it's like
38:42
well you know like we're human then we need to show some notion that we're not
38:47
perfect we don't always get it right you know like i think it's just,
38:50
you know what advice do you have for folks like us who are too too afraid to
38:55
to be wrong or to have a miss.
38:59
First thing, go and watch Champ Canasta. That's one of the vices.
39:05
I think that guy was amazing that he took the risk live on TV.
39:12
And he was fine. If he failed, he failed. But he was right.
39:17
Have you seen his book test? With multiple books.
39:22
And he collected the letters. That was the craziest book test I saw.
39:26
But then in the beginning was the mistake. the lady, she took the wrong book
39:31
and she was like, yeah, that's the book.
39:34
Yeah, that's the book that most people choose.
39:38
Previously when we did the rehearsal, someone took the same book,
39:40
so maybe you can choose another one. And there was no problem.
39:43
Oh yeah, let's go for another one.
39:46
So, first of all, it's good to watch the guys that they can handle the mistakes
39:52
like Canasta did. Very often they fail, basically.
39:55
But people definitely want to
39:59
remember the great moments not the the
40:02
bad moments another thing is remember that we
40:05
just do magic tricks for
40:08
people we're not doing surgery that
40:11
if you make a mistake so i'm gonna die right so
40:14
no i'm gonna die that's important in that tree so don't take it too seriously
40:19
just play with that and i think darren in his latest book he was talking about
40:24
that that he did the same mistake on his tour three times in a row and after
40:29
the third time he realized that those people that don't want to see the trick,
40:34
they want to see me, they want to be with me in that show.
40:38
So missing one routine was not a problem because he realized that they want
40:42
to have a great time with him and one mistake, don't change that.
40:47
Yeah and it must be nice just to
40:50
have that pull it's like you know i think
40:52
it's when you're darren brown it's kind of what he's saying is like oh
40:55
look i messed it up but people don't care they just wanted to come and see me
40:58
it's like well that must be nice you know to have an audience yeah you know
41:01
what i mean i'm sure people go to see rod stewart still performing and if you
41:08
look at the way rod stewart is depicted in a south park episode he's like in
41:11
a wheelchair pooping himself still, you know,
41:14
but people are still going to go see, do you want my body?
41:17
And you think I'm sexy? Rod Stewart. It's like, well, yeah, that would be nice. You know?
41:22
So i have a question with regards now that there's a there's a
41:25
reveal that you have in this book that i i kind of
41:28
begged him not to share and i'm still gonna ask him not to no don't
41:31
don't don't do it i don't care like make him
41:34
buy the book because it's so good and i want to do it and i want to
41:36
make it look like it's mine so i've read
41:40
the book and there's things i'm scared to share with our
41:42
audience because they're so damn good and curious
41:47
while you were writing it was there anything else that
41:50
you were scared to share like something a little bit too good that
41:53
you didn't want to put into the book is there anything else yes when i
41:56
wrote that revelation as idea
42:00
and then when people you know
42:03
approached me after reading my book like oh wow can i
42:06
use that because i want to apply that in my show like oh yeah sure
42:09
and then there was another email another email and then i realized how
42:12
awful that routine could be because as i
42:15
said it is it's something that you can actually close the
42:17
show with and everyone will be like oh wow
42:20
that's the that's the moment i want to
42:23
be part of because the old people they are
42:26
part of that moment which is i think quite unique
42:29
in magic and mentors yeah there are some ideas that i still keep just for myself
42:35
my good friend of mine mark paul if you do you know mark paul yeah yeah he's
42:40
an amazing mentorist and he said once that remember always keep some stuff just for yourself.
42:48
And i have some yeah so i'm not really everything maybe it will be for the next book.
42:55
Is is there anything you're willing to hint on on exclusively on our podcast
43:00
yeah so i'm working now on the project it will be called psychic manual so i
43:06
was working for the long time.
43:08
On the easy puberty basically and for the most time i saw the different variations
43:13
of that and And I was like, nah, it's not interesting.
43:17
And the whole structure is not great. And it was not interesting for me.
43:22
And the whole story about Dr. Ryan and the paranormal research for me was kind
43:29
of boring because people actually don't care. We think they care about that.
43:34
So now when I'm presenting that routine, the core routine, because there's a
43:38
lot of different revelations also included in that routine.
43:41
But the main core principle is about the connection because that match-up routine
43:46
when you have five symbols and spectator do the same thing with their cards
43:52
is all about that synchronicity between you and them.
43:56
So how we can actually embrace that.
43:59
So my idea was to start with me being on stage and said we are all connected
44:04
with that invisible like a rope that link us all together and that allows us
44:09
to communicate each other without using words. Let me show you what I mean.
44:13
And then I walk from the stage to the audience and I ask someone to give me
44:18
the left hand like this and then I match mine. And I'm like, no.
44:22
I go for the next person. No.
44:25
Third person. No. And then fourth one is like, oh yes, I think you'll be the
44:28
perfect. What's in there? Da, da, da. And then join me on stage.
44:32
So before we even start, we play with the mirror game.
44:36
So basically, we copy each other's movements, and then I said,
44:40
what we just did, that was a way of synchronizing our actions and motions,
44:45
but now we try to do the same thing with our thoughts and decisions. And then I increased.
44:50
Is the five symbols, but I'm not talking about meaning of the symbols,
44:54
what it came from. Just five simple shades and we go straight away for the revelation.
44:58
And usually the main goal in that ESP match is to have five symbols straight
45:04
away, and then you just gather them up, and then you show that they all match.
45:08
For me, it's the worst thing because they know what's coming,
45:13
so this is the A-B situation.
45:17
So in my perfect version is that we put three, and then I stop and I say, okay, I have two left.
45:25
Mix them between your hands, put it in your back pocket, and we need to come back to the mirror.
45:29
So this time, we do it differently. This time, our reflections need to meet each other.
45:34
And then I touch that person's hand like before.
45:37
And do you know the bridge from Aaron Alexander?
45:41
Mm-mm. Okay, so bridge is, I don't want to explain it because that's Aaron's
45:45
idea, but it's beautiful.
45:47
The bridge is basically you touch someone's hand and then you press it so you
45:53
can literally feel the pressure and then using another hand just.
45:58
Do this and another person can.
46:02
Yeah, yeah, for each finger. And they can feel that your fingers feel like stiff, like numb.
46:08
So you cannot feel your hand, basically. Because I'm saying,
46:12
this is not my hand, not your hand. This is our hand now.
46:16
And their reflection now becomes one. And what you will see in the mirror,
46:20
they'll reflect your feelings.
46:22
And then I said when I do this you're supposed
46:25
to feel the heartbeat in my index finger and they actually can feel it and then
46:30
I said okay you're doing great and then I removed my hand and when I do this
46:35
their finger is synchronized and they can literally feel the pull pushing that
46:40
so in Aaron's version he did just this,
46:44
which is a beautiful moment but that was it so thinking why we do the whole
46:49
process without extra reason why we actually, you know, using that force for something.
46:56
But then I come up with an idea, okay, use that force to collect the cars from
46:59
your pocket and then bring them like this.
47:02
So if I see the... I can actually spoil that because that's a part of the trick,
47:06
but I'm very proud of that moment.
47:08
So, of course, the cars are marked, right?
47:11
Now, if you see the marking system is matching your position,
47:16
you just do this and you flip it and you do this and you flip it.
47:20
But this is the opposite way, as So, great.
47:23
Remember, in the mirror. So, follow me. And then I moved to the audience.
47:28
And then I changed their perspective.
47:32
Right, right. It was like a multiple outs, but with the movement.
47:37
But I think it's very... You don't have to do any sneaky moves. You hold your two cars.
47:42
You ask them, okay, you can make them whatever you like. When you feel happy, just stop.
47:47
And then follow me. And then when we did that first match with two symbols,
47:52
then we go for the three remaining on the table.
47:55
So you can see I bring that structure in the pieces and the whole connection
48:01
moment is the most important thing.
48:03
So that whole routine is about to show them that we can communicate each other
48:06
without using words and we can synchronize our minds, but also our bodies.
48:11
We can feel the same in the same moment.
48:13
So that's the routine I'm working on. It's an interesting, yeah,
48:18
it's a very interesting ploy, I think.
48:20
And it gets me thinking a lot. Go ahead.
48:24
Yeah. You don't talk about that boring story. For me, it's not boring,
48:28
but I was testing different approaches for that routine with people.
48:34
And very often, magicians and mentalists, they use the same plot.
48:37
Like, yeah, that was Dr. Ryan in the 1920s in Duke University, blah, blah, blah.
48:41
And they talk about stuff that is not important in that routine.
48:45
For me, the most important thing was that moment of the connection. So I used my time.
48:50
I would expect it to establish that connection in the most interesting way.
48:55
So I come up with that idea of the mirror and finding that connection between the audience.
49:00
So you have that structure that
49:02
is actually, you know, elevating the whole routine for that final moment.
49:07
Yeah. You know, I'm sort of curious how many times you've come up with just
49:11
reveals without routine.
49:13
So I had this idea for a routine, which I was just double checking.
49:19
So what I do is whenever I get ideas, I tend to either one, write them down
49:21
or two, I email myself with the subject magic idea.
49:25
So that whenever I want an idea, I just go into my emails, I go search magic idea.
49:31
And then every time I get emails, because I'll email myself at like four in
49:34
the morning or I'll be at a gig or with family.
49:37
So I just email myself magic idea, boom.
49:40
And I had this idea as a reveal where I love this idea of using,
49:45
whenever you go to birthday parties, they have those like giant inflatable letters, you know?
49:51
And it'll say like, happy birthday, Sarah, or whoever it might be,
49:54
or, you know, and I love this idea of like, man, that is such a pack,
49:58
small, play, big idea, like to put on stage.
50:01
And I love this idea of, I was like, wouldn't it be cool if like there was boxes
50:05
on stage or maybe bags, maybe you put them like in a bag.
50:08
And then when you open the bag, the letters just come up and they compass the
50:12
whole stage. And I'm like, I just loved it as a visual to the point I actually
50:16
dreamt about like this reveal, but I haven't thought about how to reveal it.
50:19
And I'm just curious how many times you've gone, that'd be a sick reveal,
50:23
but had no idea how you were going to get there.
50:26
Recently, I was working with another magician. I was consulting his show.
50:30
And one of the ideas I come up with for the routine was doing the routine decisions,
50:36
decisions, decisions from Mark Cole.
50:38
Do you know that routine with like our chair test, but without using chairs?
50:42
When you have five stickers that are one, two, three, four, five,
50:47
and five envelopes with colored cards, and everything is, of course, matching on the end.
50:52
But I was thinking five maybe is not the good numbers. We cannot divide it in
50:55
half. So let's go for four.
50:59
And maybe we can use, for example, that watch, like a pocket watch,
51:04
in the beginning that you hypnotize the audience, kind of.
51:08
I said some people believe that you can hypnotize people or influence them so
51:12
they can do the actions that you want them to do.
51:16
So you do this, and when you have four people, behind them there are four,
51:22
like a stands with balloons with the numbers 1, 2 4, 3 and there's a mistake
51:28
between because they're supposed to be in the order but it's 1,
51:31
2, 4, 3 so like oh maybe my crew just put them in the wrong way,
51:36
but that's fine and then we go through the whole routine so we have the perfect
51:40
code and matching for the prediction,
51:42
but before we even start I asked one of the people from,
51:48
the spaters to change the time on that watch and just put it in the pocket.
51:53
That's one of the pieces. Then we have the first revelation moment is a classic from Mark.
52:00
Then I said, what's the time you set up? The check-in is 12.43.
52:08
And you can see in the balloons, it's 12.43. So that's exact time.
52:13
And then I just went, by the way, what was the first color? It was the green.
52:17
And then I have like a big, you know, nail or whatever it is.
52:20
And I pop the first balloon. And the first balloon is full of green feathers.
52:24
And you're like, then yellowed, then blue, and then red.
52:30
So we have that visual, you know, beautiful moment on the end.
52:34
And use the props to create big
52:37
moment on space that's so this is the end
52:40
yeah yeah it's that
52:43
wonderful like pack small play big moment as well and that's
52:46
it's and you got so many great ideas with that what
52:49
i also loved is uh towards the end of your book which i really really
52:52
loved is that you give a lot
52:55
of good advice on how to structure your show
52:58
like right down to how to title it how to
53:01
define your character when you're performing it your show
53:04
plan your pre-talk like and and
53:07
all of it's in here like you've even got storyboards he's even got
53:10
information on how to like structure your state like the information you share
53:14
at the end of this is really really valuable because you basically say like
53:18
here's how you can add strength to your routine now you need to know how to
53:22
implement it and i just think that's like there's a wealth of knowledge that
53:26
you shared in this, which is pretty wonderful.
53:28
What compelled you to write things to that extent, like basically start to finish?
53:34
Yeah, so the idea for the workbook was pretty simple that I want to give people
53:38
a tool that they can use to work on their own show.
53:42
And I come up with that idea of creating like a show plan that you have all
53:48
very important elements for me that helps me when I'm creating a show.
53:53
And if I can explain them how you can apply them in your show,
53:58
that will help you a lot to, first of all, see the show as a whole living organism
54:04
and how you can work on that.
54:06
And also point very important elements that usually are just missed in the show.
54:11
So one of them is connectors, which is the moment between one routine and another routine.
54:16
Very often when you finish the routine, you are so excited that, oh, that was great.
54:20
And you just relax, you go out of your character, and you just do stuff to prepare
54:26
yourself for the next routine.
54:28
But people don't going to see that process. They see that moment that you change
54:33
from one routine to another routine.
54:35
So how you can do it smoothly, how you can design even those changes to make
54:40
them interesting and also make sense, or maybe even surprise them.
54:45
Thinking about the moments or elements that usually people don't think about is interesting.
54:51
Because people very often didn't know why the show was good.
54:57
They just feel it oh that was a great show why i don't
54:59
know i just feel it that was good but because those four elements that
55:02
we need to think about that's the reason why they don't
55:05
have to know but we need to we need to know yeah and
55:09
i think that the information given that is really handy so there's one thing
55:12
you made mention earlier is that like people kind of see the revelations coming
55:15
but you have what you've coined as the breadcrumb theory that has this amazing
55:23
ability to lead people down the garden path,
55:26
but not reveal all.
55:30
And I think that's worth talking about before we wrap up. Can we explore that
55:34
breadcrumb theory with our audience?
55:36
Yeah, so basically it's about the idea that if you, for example,
55:39
have like a full evening show and you're going for that final moment of the
55:45
show, final revelation,
55:47
it's good, in my opinion, good to give them small elements, the pieces of the
55:52
puzzle that can collect them by themselves.
55:55
And on the end, you just give them the frame and then we can put them in pieces together.
56:01
Because in my opinion, also from experience, I can tell that people,
56:06
they appreciate it more when they can find that moment of revelation by themselves,
56:11
rather than just you point them straight away.
56:13
When they come up with the, oh, that was the blah, blah, blah.
56:18
Because they appreciate their own work. So they are more engaged when they need
56:22
to put the old pieces together by themselves.
56:25
But I need to lead them gently and give them enough information,
56:29
but also not too much to don't spoil the whole final moment.
56:34
So I think this is art itself to be able to you know play with those pieces
56:40
smoother and to give them right amount of pieces to collect to then encourage
56:47
them to put everything together by themselves.
56:50
And it's simply more so over a longer period we're talking over
56:53
the space of a show as opposed to a routine or two so
56:56
basically like are we foreshadowing foreshadowing some
57:00
elements in the show right so we just mentioned
57:03
that maybe in different routines
57:07
this is small piece of information that's oh is look
57:11
unrelevant but in the end that could
57:14
be you know very important information so if you just find interesting elements
57:20
as a puzzle and just spread them in the whole show that is a perfect preparation
57:26
for the show because very often in my opinion when you have that final trick
57:31
or routine or whatever it is.
57:34
It's a very long and heavy process to get for the final moment.
57:37
Very often. Because we need to do this, we need to do that selection,
57:40
we need to do that preparation.
57:41
And then 10 minutes later, we have revelation, right?
57:46
Right. But if you split that in small actions, for example, after one routine,
57:51
you can have them, do you know what?
57:52
From those cards, just pick one, just put it in the envelope and put it in your pocket.
57:56
Then I'm just like jamming, but just give them small decisions during the show.
58:01
And then actually you did your preparation through the whole show so the ending
58:07
was much more quicker and much more smoother because it's already done so you
58:13
can just collect all the information and just play with the big finale which
58:18
is I think a good solution.
58:19
We don't have that time usually that you have when the final routine is complicated
58:25
so we just cut it in a piece and just distribute them through the whole.
58:32
I think it's a great idea for something like when you see any sort of calculator
58:36
effect, it can be so laborious with the item oh,
58:42
just the process itself so for example sometimes they'll go,
58:46
okay, so the routine is that you get a card, you get a card,
58:49
and then whatever the values of those cards are, we'll add them all up like,
58:52
why not do routines throughout the thing where it's like, if you've got a card,
58:56
stand up, okay, what's the value of your card?
58:58
And yours, and yours and yours. So you've just eliminated like one step,
59:02
You know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you can also eliminate that in a different way.
59:08
For example, I also was doing item for long because I think it's a great trick,
59:13
specifically with that day, month, and the time.
59:17
But very often, when I saw different managers doing that, they pick people to
59:24
name random number, but first of all, they need to go for the process of finding someone,
59:28
asking for the number, and establish that connection, so it's a longer process.
59:32
When I was doing that, I changed the whole thought because I was asking people
59:38
who actually did some kind of routine with me previously. So I said,
59:42
where's the lady from the routine to the world? Oh, there you are.
59:45
Think about that, that, that.
59:46
So I used that previous connection to go for that. So I was cutting the dead time.
59:52
I was cutting the situation that someone said, no, I don't want to be included.
59:55
I have my trusted audience because I did something with them previously.
1:00:00
So I can be referred to them and they'll be much easier to help you out with
1:00:05
the decisions you want if that makes sense.
1:00:08
Another for example for the items another idea I come up with is,
1:00:14
let me show you so on the end, on the beginning I gave someone like an envelope,
1:00:19
big envelope and that's the message on the end and then when the final moment
1:00:24
was coming I said okay, I need to find that person with the envelope,
1:00:28
and I was on the full view and I said, I told you what it is.
1:00:31
It's a prediction about the future of how it will work.
1:00:35
And then we do the whole process of the item. So that's the number blah, blah, blah.
1:00:40
And then when I open that drop, it's the wrong number.
1:00:44
And people are like, what the fuck? And I think that's an interesting moment
1:00:48
because you create that, you build up everything.
1:00:51
You're like, oh, shit, this is not going to work. And then you see the wrong number.
1:00:55
And I was waiting literally like five seconds without any sound.
1:00:59
Like, of course it's not going to work because no one can predict the future
1:01:03
and also no one can change the past.
1:01:05
All we can do is just to be right here, right there in that moment because this is only what we have.
1:01:09
But sometimes to enjoy that moment fully, we need to see the word from different
1:01:15
perspectives and then when I move that, so that was a clip text,
1:01:20
the numbers they create the line.
1:01:23
This moment and I said and this moment is now and then check your phone blah
1:01:28
blah blah and that was a matching so I think that mistake and that,
1:01:31
so that was not the prediction that was the instructions about you know,
1:01:35
what we're looking for that was interesting because that was breaking those
1:01:39
expectations in a nice way.
1:01:42
Yeah, there's a lot of strengthen that i have more questions
1:01:45
but we've basically we've hit our hour mark and it's you
1:01:48
know we have time for one last question i think that i would like to ask you
1:01:51
if there was one piece of advice that you would like to give to magicians to
1:01:56
strengthen these moments or to create these reveals to give their audience moments
1:02:02
they wouldn't forget what would you like to say to them,
1:02:07
For me, the best advice is just to go to see good movies, theater,
1:02:12
dance, whatever it is, different kind of art forms that can inspire you to apply
1:02:17
those images to your show. Because that's basically gold.
1:02:21
Watching other artists doing their job on a high level and just try to think
1:02:26
how I can apply this, how I can change this to fit in my show.
1:02:30
And those ideas will be fresh because in Magic we have.
1:02:34
You know, some clothes that repeat itself all over again, which has changed
1:02:39
the color of the envelope maybe.
1:02:40
But if you look to the different art of like dance, theater,
1:02:44
I don't know, singing, painting, whatever it is, and try to think how we can
1:02:49
use those ideas or knowledge in our show, that's, I think, a good source of inspiration.
1:02:55
I think if you look for the best, I think, in the business, like,
1:02:59
I don't know, Darren or Copperfield, they always look outside of the box.
1:03:05
So for Caulfield, it was dance and Broadway and theater, and then someone,
1:03:10
you know, applied theater in magic.
1:03:13
For Darren, psychology, painting, the painting upside down is one of the best
1:03:19
drawing of Lucas's I saw.
1:03:22
Yeah, like one of the things I mentioned earlier was when you were talking about
1:03:25
Luke Jemay with the rain.
1:03:27
So Luke Jemay was doing a regulation where he's trying to do like a rainforest,
1:03:29
so he gets everyone to kind of tap their fingers and emulate this rainforest noise.
1:03:33
But furthermore, what he does is he also has a hand lotion.
1:03:39
And the hand lotion smells of pine and smells like a forest.
1:03:42
And so as he's chatting to them, he waves his hand back and forth.
1:03:46
Like, I want you to imagine this. And he's swinging his hand back and forth
1:03:49
as he's doing that. But what he's actually doing is he's fanning their face.
1:03:53
He's fanning their face so they can smell the rainforest. They can smell like the pine.
1:03:58
So it just goes to show like there's so many elements you can use to do really
1:04:02
really cool reveals but friends it has now come to the show radic thank you
1:04:06
so much for joining us we will end callback week maybe same with the final word
1:04:10
before we do guys we'll be back to next week normal performance time along with
1:04:15
the rest of the team but leaving you with the final word,
1:04:18
Here we are, ready, Coffin.
1:04:23
So my final word for you is just to try, don't be afraid to fail,
1:04:28
and be ready to reinvent yourself every single day because I think that's the
1:04:33
most important thing to be authentic in your show, in your performance,
1:04:38
and you need to be ready to change yourself every single day to be the best
1:04:42
version of you, but also be ready for changes and apply those changes in your
1:04:47
life, but also in your performance.
1:04:50
Thanks for listening it's time for us to disappear now disappear now but we'll
1:04:57
see you again on the next episode of the magic guys.