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Transcript

The Parable of the Tenants · The Grove Church

• 0:04
  Charlie Loften: The questions we wrestle with as Christians about who God is, how do we live out our faith, what is the Bible, what is the truth of the Bible, what are we supposed to believe? How are we supposed to live? There are really big, deep questions that we ask each other, that we ask God, that we wrestle with ourselves. And that's why the Cultivate podcast exists, to help us go deeper in our understanding of who God is, his word, and the way that he's called us to live. Hi, everyone.
• 0:36
  Welcome to the Cultivate podcast at The Grove Church. I'm Charlie Loften, lead pastor there and here with Bagel Boone. Bagel Boone. I could actually see
• 0:45
  Abigail Boone: in your
• 0:45
  Charlie Loften: eyes, you were coming with Bagel Boone. What do you think what do you think the people would do if we started releasing our pop culture Discussion. Discussions that we do in between recordings?
• 0:57
  Abigail Boone: I think that people would be surprised at the breadth of the things that we listen to or we take in. Mhmm. That we like the old classics, musicals, superhero movies, and just iconic movies. Mhmm. So I think they'd be a little surprised of all the stuff that we cover.
• 1:14
  Charlie Loften: I learned something recently. This is life changing is too strong. Okay. But still. So we have to talk to you about the fact that I am a fan of not necessarily the movie The Greatest Showman.
• 1:28
  It was an okay movie, but the soundtrack is baller. I listen to that soundtrack a lot. Love it. Also, two of my favorite artists of all time, Pink and Kelly Clarkson.
• 1:41
  Abigail Boone: Those are two of your favorite artists?
• 1:43
  Charlie Loften: 2018, the year after The Greatest Showman came out, they released an album The original artist. The Greatest Showman Reimagined, and they had popular artists from the time do all of those songs. And two of my favorite songs from that soundtrack, one is made by Pink and one is made by Kelly Clarkson.
• 2:03
  Abigail Boone: Which ones did they do? And this has existed for eight years, Abigail. I didn't know.
• 2:08
  Charlie Loften: And I just discovered it last month.
• 2:10
  Abigail Boone: What songs do they do?
• 2:12
  Charlie Loften: Never Enough by Kelly Clarkson.
• 2:14
  Abigail Boone: Oh, bet she just absolutely shreds it.
• 2:16
  Charlie Loften: And A Million Dreams is pink.
• 2:19
  Abigail Boone: Really? That's one of your favorites?
• 2:20
  Charlie Loften: Mhmm.
• 2:21
  Abigail Boone: Well, From Now On is my favorite.
• 2:23
  Charlie Loften: Yeah. A Zach Brown band.
• 2:25
  Abigail Boone: Oh, I bet it's not as good.
• 2:27
  Charlie Loften: No,
• 2:27
  Abigail Boone: it's bad. But this is going be If
• 2:28
  Charlie Loften: you have any of the way that they do it, their rendition of it, it's very
• 2:33
  Abigail Boone: It's bulky, though.
• 2:34
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, and it makes sense. I'm telling you, they did a really great job with the parents.
• 2:39
  Abigail Boone: I want a choir that spans from highest sopranos to lowest of bass at the end crescendo, and I can hear the whole spectrum of voices. Greatest show? Panic! At the Disco.
• 2:52
  Charlie Loften: Oh, I can hear that. It's very interesting. Poppy? Actually,
• 2:57
  Abigail Boone: I think I did know them because my nieces and nephews, it's really funny, they know how to use Alexa, and so they'll be like, Alexa, play, blah, blah, blah. And I think I've heard the Panic! At the Disco one because of that. Now that you say that.
• 3:09
  Charlie Loften: Alexa played Panic! At the Disco, Greatest Showman?
• 3:14
  Abigail Boone: Mouthy title. Anyways. This is my hot take for the episode then. You brought him up. Hugh Jackman's voice is awful.
• 3:23
  Really? Yes. He knows how do you know what vibrato is? He knows how to imitate vibrato, and he can sing loudly.
• 3:31
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, I think that part of the problem is, I mean, he's having to work really, really hard because he's having to sing in an American accent. You can tell he's got, mean, he can hold a note. It's not Russell Crowe in Les Mis.
• 3:44
  Abigail Boone: No, but
• 3:45
  Charlie Loften: Russell He was Crowe a decent singer in Les Mis. Russell Crowe
• 3:48
  Abigail Boone: If can't we were saying Hugh Jackman was not a singer and he sang in Greatest Showman, I'd be like, yeah, that was a decent job. But he's, like, known as a singer, and I'm like, well, let's just kill that because you're not a good singer, but you're capable of pulling it off in movies.
• 4:04
  Charlie Loften: He is a great enough performer to make up for being just an okay singer.
• 4:10
  Abigail Boone: A pretty bad singer.
• 4:11
  Charlie Loften: No. He's not a bad singer.
• 4:12
  Abigail Boone: All he does is Bad singer.
• 4:19
  Charlie Loften: My boy Russell Crowe, who I love.
• 4:20
  Abigail Boone: Yeah, but he's not an acclaimed
• 4:22
  Charlie Loften: Every male in the movie version Mamma Mia.
• 4:27
  Abigail Boone: Yeah, but none of them are claiming to be singers who got the That's better. And like, I'm just saying, like, I'm
• 4:33
  Charlie Loften: just saying that's the difference between good and bad.
• 4:35
  Abigail Boone: That's bad. I would give Hugh Jackman a break if he wasn't claiming to be a, like, Broadway performer.
• 4:45
  Charlie Loften: I don't think anybody's thinking.
• 4:49
  Abigail Boone: He gets cast for movies where he's made to sing. Was in that song Songs because Jackman. And I'm like, you are ruining this movie every time you sing.
• 4:57
  Charlie Loften: If I had said he doesn't claim to be Adele Daseem, would you know what I mean by that?
• 5:02
  Abigail Boone: Yeah, I do.
• 5:03
  Charlie Loften: The John Travolta
• 5:03
  Abigail Boone: thing. It up.
• 5:05
  Charlie Loften: John Travolta introducing Adena Mazel.
• 5:08
  Abigail Boone: I like that he loses volume strength as he starts to go. It's like he knows.
• 5:13
  Charlie Loften: Wickedly talented. I know people don't know what we're talking about, but I'm telling you it is absolutely But
• 5:20
  Abigail Boone: anyone, Cassie, if you want to write in another email, anyone send in your thoughts on Hugh Jackman.
• 5:25
  Charlie Loften: He's perfectly fine. I think He's
• 5:27
  Abigail Boone: perfectly fine. We need to
• 5:29
  Charlie Loften: be he's as in that zone. Good looking, and he is a great performer, and that is enough to carry the whole performance to where his singing is fine. As opposed to Pierce Brosnan Who's
• 5:41
  Abigail Boone: not claiming to be a singer but did good And in spite of that is a bad singer. No, Hugh Jackman is a bad singer. You're ranking him on a completely different scale. Because he's claiming to be a singer.
• 5:54
  Charlie Loften: I've never heard him claim I am a singer.
• 5:56
  Abigail Boone: Because he performs and he goes after those musical roles.
• 6:00
  Charlie Loften: They give them to him because he's Hugh Jackman. Anyways. Send in your comments. So there you go. That's what it would be like.
• 6:09
  What that's what in between episodes every time. Alright.
• 6:15
  Abigail Boone: Important
• 6:16
  Charlie Loften: discussion. Just finished, last week, the parable of the two sons. We're just right Palm Sunday, Jesus has been interacting with the chief priests. They tried to trap Him. He trapped them back by getting them to not be willing to even take a stand on whether or not John the Baptist was from God or not.
• 6:36
  And then built on that with the Parable of the Two Sons saying, Hey, John the Baptist came with this message of repentance, and the tax collectors and the prostitutes said yes, and so they're in the kingdom. You act like you're a yes person, but when it came right down to it, you have chosen at this point to still not obey. So we left it with this tension of they supposedly have this heart to say yes to God, but instead they're not following through. And then you mentioned, usually it seems like that these kind of ones kind of end kind of apocalyptically, then you're to end up burning and gnashing of teeth and all these sorts of things. But really, this one kind of ends more with a, almost like you have a decision to make.
• 7:24
  You have a decision to make. Again, the way he says it, they are entering the kingdom ahead of you. There's an impliedness to that. Not they entered the kingdom and you didn't. Are entering, they have entered Currently happening.
• 7:42
  Before you, and before you has an implication of like, maybe there's still room, there's still time. Okay? So
• 7:52
  Abigail Boone: are they still in the same conversation Yes. Presumably?
• 7:56
  Charlie Loften: Yeah. Because verse 30 verse 33, listen to another parable. Mhmm. So I almost you definitely get the impression that it was like He explained the previous one, and I got another one for you.
• 8:08
  Abigail Boone: Okay? Listen
• 8:09
  Charlie Loften: to this. So verse 33. Matthew chapter 21. Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who planted a vineyard.
• 8:18
  He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it, and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit. The tenant seized his servants. They beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.
• 8:36
  Then he sent other servants to them more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. Last of all, he sent his son to them. They will respect my son, he said. But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, this is the heir. Come, let's kill him and take his inheritance.
• 8:53
  So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. K. Let's stop right there. Now he's about to get into more interaction. We're kind of catching the vibe here, kind of what's happening.
• 9:03
  Abigail Boone: I mean, these people are super violent. Right. And they're taking over its business, I'm assuming. Yeah.
• 9:08
  Charlie Loften: So this got bills. Basically, for us, a vineyard. I've got this farmland that we're going to put a vineyard on there. I'm going to build everything that we need to grow the grapes, to press the grapes, to make the wine, everything. It's all right here.
• 9:25
  I put this wall around it, it's protected. And now I'm going to find some people who can run it for me. They get to live here and I'm probably sure have some sort of profit sharing arrangement of some kind. You rent this for me and when it's time to make money, I get mine and you get yours. When the harvest time comes, he sent servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
• 9:52
  So they have some sort of business arrangement. You do all this work, you get to live here, you get to take care of all of this, and and they have some sort of business arrangement that when harvest comes, there's
• 10:04
  Abigail Boone: You're going get a kickback.
• 10:05
  Charlie Loften: I get the agreed upon portion of all of this. So you just casually, Hey, it's that time. Send his servants. I got the trucks here, load it up, and instead, you know?
• 10:20
  Abigail Boone: They went crazy. Yes. Like, even for their standards, like, that would be kind of crazy behavior. That would crazy.
• 10:26
  Charlie Loften: This is Hyperbolic. Hyperbolic. Okay.
• 10:30
  Abigail Boone: Yeah. Because I feel like that would be like a, alright. Listen to the FBI over there.
• 10:36
  Charlie Loften: Right.
• 10:36
  Abigail Boone: Something's happening to the house.
• 10:38
  Charlie Loften: Yeah. You do. You you would get the imp I mean, even even in first century Roman Empire Mhmm. Jerusalem, I mean, they would be like you you wouldn't be able to
• 10:48
  Abigail Boone: Pull that off.
• 10:48
  Charlie Loften: You wouldn't be able to get away You with wouldn't be able to get away with this. Okay. And so this is not a this is not meant to be a story. It's like, I remember when that happened to Steve.
• 10:57
  Abigail Boone: Yeah, that happens all the time. It was tough. If I was his son, I would be terrified to go.
• 11:04
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, so then he sends a second wave, still psychotic. And now you get to the third, I'll send my son. Then Maybe not. They will respect my son, he said. Okay.
• 11:22
  So if we're talking about, as always, the king, the owner, the father, whatever, is always God, right? We have a question mark here that says something about him because the the landowner is not an idiot.
• 11:44
  Abigail Boone: Right. But he assumed they would respect That was because he's related. I respect my I These people are savages.
• 11:53
  Charlie Loften: We gotta come back. Yeah. We definitely have to come back to that.
• 11:57
  Abigail Boone: I feel like if I sent that many people ahead of them, I would not send my little Maeve. I'm like, well, they all know she's related to me, so she'll be fine.
• 12:05
  Charlie Loften: And she's sweet, and everybody likes her. But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, this is the heir. Come, let's kill him and take his inheritance. So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. Verse 40.
• 12:18
  Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants? He will bring those wretches to a wretched inn, they replied, and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time. Jesus said to them, have you never read in the scriptures, the stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone? The Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes. Therefore, I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
• 12:53
  Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces. Anyone on whom it falls will be crushed. When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them. They looked for a way to arrest him, but they were afraid of the crowd because the people held that he was a prophet.
• 13:13
  Abigail Boone: They held that he was a prophet?
• 13:15
  Charlie Loften: Believed. They held the belief.
• 13:18
  Abigail Boone: Okay. Can we get something covered real quick before we go deep into this? Yes. Is a cornerstone, as literal as I'm thinking it
• 13:27
  Charlie Loften: is? Yes.
• 13:28
  Abigail Boone: Okay. Yes. So it's like literally the corner of some structure would be like a notable piece of rock or something.
• 13:34
  Charlie Loften: Right. If you think about, like, I was gonna build a house on some sort of rock slab, the four stones in the corner
• 13:44
  Abigail Boone: Or the anchor.
• 13:45
  Charlie Loften: Would be the ones that you would most want to be the strongest, the flattest, having the most holding the most surface
• 13:53
  Abigail Boone: Mhmm.
• 13:53
  Charlie Loften: The strongest ones
• 13:54
  Abigail Boone: Yeah.
• 13:55
  Charlie Loften: The thing that is keeping the whole thing from collapsing on itself. Okay. Yeah.
• 13:58
  Abigail Boone: Did you know that houses aren't attached to the slabs they're built on?
• 14:04
  Charlie Loften: What do you mean?
• 14:05
  Abigail Boone: So one of the clients that I work for is a home builder, and so I go and document some of the processes, and after a while I was like, none of these frames are, like, drilled into the platform. When are y'all gonna do that? And he's like, oh, we don't attach the house to the the slab. I'm like, well, that seems really reckless. The tornado's gonna come through, and the house is just gonna blow away.
• 14:31
  But they don't, like, anchor it onto anything. They just, like, build it on top, and the weight of the house just holds it down.
• 14:38
  Charlie Loften: I don't know. I guess I guess I guess I didn't know that.
• 14:40
  Abigail Boone: Isn't that crazy?
• 14:41
  Charlie Loften: I would've said that, yeah, that they Nope. None of them.
• 14:45
  Abigail Boone: Nope. If you're built if it's built on a concrete slab, there's ones where they're built if they're, like, built into a hill or something like that, they can, like, they'll have posts that go down into the ground. But if they put down a concrete slab and then build the house on top of it, it's just wood on top of wood. So the weight of the house. Crazy, right?
• 15:14
  Charlie Loften: Google Gemini disagrees. Oh. So maybe it is not always the case, depending on maybe it's maybe
• 15:21
  Abigail Boone: That just feels so reckless to
• 15:22
  Charlie Loften: me. Right.
• 15:23
  Abigail Boone: Like, would it not so curious?
• 15:24
  Charlie Loften: That feels reckless to me.
• 15:25
  Abigail Boone: I'm like, surely that doesn't jack up the price of your house so high that you get a couple I of
• 15:34
  Charlie Loften: feel like I've seen it where they have these big anchor bolts that kind of shoot through the thing into the concrete. I think that
• 15:39
  Abigail Boone: is Maybe it's like commercial buildings do that more often.
• 15:42
  Charlie Loften: Maybe not talk about who this builder is.
• 15:47
  Abigail Boone: Your houses might all be blown away in a couple of months.
• 15:49
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, I know. So Jesus, again, makes it very explicit here. I mean, He doesn't come right out But plain as the His description of it afterwards, and then obviously they got the message. So Jesus was trying to be very clear here. He was not looking for that kind of trademark ambiguity that we've talked about sometime.
• 16:11
  Hey, go ahead and ponder about what this means. Who has ears? Let him hear. Think about that for a little bit, guys. I mean, it's like, you know, because there's a direct, I mean, especially for guys as smart as this, you know, because Jesus already made these claims about who He is.
• 16:30
  So God has given the nation of Israel, right, a stewardship. You are not owners of the earth. You are not owners of Israel, you are not owners of anything. God is the owner and I have given you a stewardship. There have been times when you have been unfaithful, and so I send my prophets to tell you to get right.
• 16:55
  And what have you done with the prophets? So many of the prophets were martyred, like Old Testament prophets, were killed. And so I send you more prophets,
• 17:08
  Abigail Boone: And then
• 17:09
  Charlie Loften: you keep doing it. You persecute them, you hate them, you kill many of them. This is how you have been. And they have known, mean, they would have easily connected this to their own history. And it's easy in hindsight to look back and say, Man, they But shouldn't have done you go to they, right?
• 17:30
  They should not have done that to the prophet Zechariah. They shouldn't have. They should have been better to Elijah than what they were. They should have. And there's no
• 17:41
  Abigail Boone: But, like, in their history, like, at that time, were they like, Yeah, we did that. Or were they kind of like, hush-hush?
• 17:49
  Charlie Loften: No, they would have known. Mean, was in the scripture. They would have known that their ancestors had mistreated
• 17:57
  Abigail Boone: People who were sent by God.
• 17:58
  Charlie Loften: Yeah. Okay. But we're different. No. And it's the kind of thing that we all do.
• 18:05
  If your family has a troubled history, or if Christianity, your particular branch of it has a troubled history, you look back and say, That's a shame. But we would never, without the real pensive, you know, the necessary act of being pensive of just like, Do I have a bit of that attitude? And so has been basically saying that this has been your history. Mistreated and sometimes killed the prophets. And then God says, I'm gonna send my son.
• 18:49
  They will accept my son.
• 18:52
  Abigail Boone: But see, I feel like that's how the God knew. Like, Jesus wasn't unaware that he was gonna be rejected.
• 19:00
  Charlie Loften: Right.
• 19:00
  Abigail Boone: That's where I feel like he splinters off
• 19:02
  Charlie Loften: It was from prophesied.
• 19:05
  Abigail Boone: Well, the dad, yeah, the dad saying that he was gonna send his son. I feel like God wasn't like, I'm gonna send my son and Well they're gonna know. I mean,
• 19:15
  Charlie Loften: the story is unrealistic enough where it's like, you know, what they've done isn't quite bad enough for judgment. I'm gonna send them my son, they'll kill him, and then judgment will be significant enough. I mean, takes the story beyond believability into a completely different thing. This mark of unbelievability makes you stop and pause, which, again, if we go one to one and be like, well, that is not really the motivation for which God sent His Son, but implied in that is God's even though you have done me and my prophets so much harm, I still want to believe in you. I still believe in you.
• 20:05
  Please, please do right now, please. I'm begging you. And so I think it does point to God's graciousness.
• 20:13
  Abigail Boone: That He's still willing to. But I
• 20:15
  Charlie Loften: don't think that we should take from it that God is as naive as this landowner seems Yeah. To But I think that detail is put in there on purpose.
• 20:27
  Abigail Boone: Okay.
• 20:27
  Charlie Loften: And so then, Jesus says very explicitly, there's actually verses that talk about this, that you are going to reject the one on whom this whole thing is supposed to be built, And because of that, what you think you have is going to be taken from you and given to someone else. Which, you know, whether or not you believe that to be the apostles who were Jewish people or kind of what has happened in the centuries since then. This is a complete switch from Christianity being a Jewish based faith to
• 21:03
  Abigail Boone: Anyone who believes.
• 21:04
  Charlie Loften: Well, yeah. I mean, 99.99% Gentile faith. I mean, kingdom has been taken away from the Jewish people being the stewards to a completely different group of stewards. Even though some of the initial group of stewards were technically from the nation of Israel, the nation of Israel as a whole is no longer the one that is stewarding
• 21:29
  Abigail Boone: It was opened up.
• 21:30
  Charlie Loften: God's kingdom. It is now this is a transition from the Kingdom Of Israel to the church. It's two completely different things. This has ended, and now we are here. And that has some interesting theological implications because there is one of the big questions that people have of like, kind of some big picture theological things, and it becomes more and more relevant the more and more the current nation of Israel is in the news.
• 22:04
  What is the relationship between Israel and the church? What is God's current relationship with Israel? How does God view the Jewish people as a whole? You know, so they were His chosen people to, again, using this parable, given a stewardship. Blessed to be a blessing, right?
• 22:27
  All the way from Genesis chapter 12, I'm going to give you this thing and you're going to be blessed from it, but you also have, it is a stewardship to which I am owed, and there are certain things that you have to do in order to maintain the stewardship here. Well, you have rejected Jesus, the cornerstone, you've killed my son, now this is taken away from you, and now the stewardship is given to someone else. What is the relationship between those who had the old stewardship before and us, and does God still hold any favor towards these original stewards? That is a big theological question that has had major
• 23:11
  Abigail Boone: Dividing lines.
• 23:13
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, and has had major impact on global events. That is a significant it is not the only, but it is one of the significant reasons why in the last over the last eighty years, America has been such a strong supporter of Israel is because of how closely the Christian community has been tied to premillennialism, which holds to the idea that even though the stewardship may be with the Christians now, God still has a covenant relationship with Israel with some uncompleted promises. So there's some promises that God made to Israel that were not ever completely fulfilled, and God is ultimately going to fulfill them, and we should be helpful to God and to His original people so that these prophecies can be fulfilled or, no. No. No.
• 24:12
  Shut down. That's over. Redo. And any of the unmet promises are now extended in a different way to the people who hold the stewardship now. That is a big question.
• 24:26
  So premillennialists say God still has unique favor for the Jewish people, therefore we as God's people now with this stewardship should be very favorable towards them. And I could say it feels like, you know, when we talk about our theological house, what you think about the relationship between the church and Israel is pretty small. It's huge. Except that it has had long standing geopolitical consequences for the last eighty years. And a choice between are we going to support a Jewish person or a Muslim person geopolitically, the Christian answer is almost always for the last eighty years have been, well, Jewish people always because they still have this favoritism over here.
• 25:20
  So we're moving out of necessarily what Jesus was trying to communicate to them.
• 25:23
  Abigail Boone: I was gonna say what was that.
• 25:25
  Charlie Loften: But more to just kind of the next level implications of that that I feel like we I don't know. I feel like I needed to address.
• 25:34
  Abigail Boone: Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. But with this, it's basically just like last episode where I said it feels like getting slapped with both hands.
• 25:44
  Did your siblings ever do that to you? Like a little delay.
• 25:49
  Charlie Loften: My brother, he was six years older than me, and so his violence towards me was minimal.
• 25:57
  Abigail Boone: Well, it's a tough slap to get out of because your head banks that way and then you just get hit again. And it's like, I just feel all discombobulated. I feel like that's what both of these Parables feel like that, like, there's a hit and then right after it, it's just another hit of, like, no. Actually, that's you. You're the one that's rejected all of these multiple people who have been sent.
• 26:22
  So it's like a double whammy of, like, well, that's a horrible situation. Who would do that? You. And then just laying out the reality of what he's actually talking about. But, also, I guess if they're hearing it just like the one or the one that we've read last week, that it's like I know this one has more of the apocalyptic did I say it?
• 26:46
  Did I say it right?
• 26:47
  Charlie Loften: Yeah. Sure.
• 26:47
  Abigail Boone: Boom. Language, there still does seem like a you can choose now
• 26:53
  Charlie Loften: Yeah.
• 26:53
  Abigail Boone: To not reject who sending.
• 26:57
  Charlie Loften: I feel like there is an ability for them individually to choose something different. But he is really kind of manifesting here the idea that as a whole, I have been rejected by the initial And the people before initial tenants. And I'm about to be executed, and you're in a lot of trouble, and a new group of Tenants are coming. So I think big picture, his declaration about what is about to happen in the transition from what we'll call the age of Israel to the age of the Church is set. Implied in that though is, but you Individual.
• 27:44
  We'll talk about Steve again. You, Steve, the chief priest, the chief, know, the the Pharisee, can still get out. The fact that the big picture you collective, y'all have rejected me. But I do think you're right, there is an implied plea for the individual to get on the right side of this. The fact that Jesus has big picture been rejected is, that's done.
• 28:20
  That's clear. But, there is still time and hope for individuals to not reject. Because it is,
• 28:31
  Abigail Boone: I mean, that's a pretty well, I don't know if at that time they would have, but today, that comparison of, oh, someone sent their child to me and I still killed their child. Like, that's pretty like, oh, well, I don't wanna be that person. But that's a pretty, like, harsh thing to say that, like, well, I even sent my person that I thought you would respect because they're a part of me.
• 28:56
  Charlie Loften: Right.
• 28:56
  Abigail Boone: That's a pretty, like, you would hope not written in stone type thing. Right. You know? Yes. It's like, no, I still have the choice to be like someone who would see who that is and actually turn and confess and repent and not just be clumped into the larger we.
• 29:15
  Like, it could be a warning just as much as a condemnation of what has happened.
• 29:20
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, but then it immediately goes to and then they got together we're like, how can we kill
• 29:26
  Abigail Boone: this guy?
• 29:27
  Charlie Loften: Mean, what mean, just the
• 29:29
  Abigail Boone: They're like, nah, we're doubling down. We overuse the word
• 29:32
  Charlie Loften: irony because we don't know what it means. So maybe this isn't ironic, but like No, it's ironic. They're hey, you killed the son, and Jesus says, You know, rejected the chief cornerstone, and the chief and the priest heard this, they knew he was talking about them. They acknowledged that. He's talking about He's saying we're the ones that are going to reject him and persecute him, possibly even kill him.
• 30:02
  Abigail Boone: So let's do that. We should get on.
• 30:05
  Charlie Loften: We should get on to it.
• 30:06
  Abigail Boone: Sounds like a great plan. Yeah. It's all brought on.
• 30:09
  Charlie Loften: Yeah.
• 30:12
  Abigail Boone: That is a bummer.
• 30:14
  Charlie Loften: But it also makes sense. I mean, if he's wrong, it is a dangerous thing to be going around Yeah.
• 30:21
  Abigail Boone: And claiming that people should be. Yeah,
• 30:23
  Charlie Loften: it is. That our leadership and oversight of the faith of our people has been completely rejected by God, we handed to a completely different group of people because we don't believe what this one guy is saying.
• 30:40
  Abigail Boone: But that's like that one that's like, he's either a liar, lunatic, or
• 30:46
  Charlie Loften: something else? The Lord.
• 30:48
  Abigail Boone: Lord, okay. That like, that is a fine line to walk. Yeah. So it's fair that they're having these.
• 30:56
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, it's very clear they heard the message. Yeah. Message received. But if
• 31:02
  Abigail Boone: what you're saying is true, regardless of whether it's true or not, what you're saying is attributing a lot of authority.
• 31:08
  Charlie Loften: Right. And so either you are a liar or a lunatic, either way you need to be dealt with. Worshipping you is not an option for us. You have to be dealt with, and we've got to figure out a way to arrest you, but we have to do it in a way where we're not going to get blamed for it because these idiots are believing in you, which is in fact a huge part of the problem. If he were hanging out by himself talking to a tree and only two other crazy people were there with him, like, oh, I don't know, whatever.
• 31:40
  But, like, you on the verge of a power shifting cult. You have to be dealt with. But I think your Lord Liar Lunatic was really good. So the idea behind that is C. S.
• 31:55
  Lewis is the person that came up with it, that you cannot, you can't basically trying to get rid of the idea of dismissing Jesus as just a good person or a really good teacher. He says, can't do that. You cannot have a moderate position about Jesus because He claims be And the Son of if you claim to be the Son of God, either that is true and your only option is worship.
• 32:27
  Abigail Boone: And you
• 32:28
  Charlie Loften: reorient. Or it's not true, and if it's not true, he knows it's not true, and he's a liar and should be completely rejected. He doesn't know it's true, that means he's insane.
• 32:40
  Abigail Boone: Need to stay
• 32:40
  Charlie Loften: with him himself. Right? Those are your only legitimate choices. You do not have the choice of, kinda like him. I kinda like him.
• 32:50
  I kinda The like only one that has been added, and the first time I heard this was when I was in college, is I can't remember if there is one that starts with L or not, misunderstood. He didn't really say that.
• 33:08
  Abigail Boone: Oh, so that's taking a shot at the biographers.
• 33:11
  Charlie Loften: Yeah, now we're just taking a shot at the Bible. If I can reject that He said that and I'm only left with Him saying things like, Hugs are sweet and clouds are pretty, then I can't have that sort of moderated position about Jesus. Because He didn't say those things that other people said He said. Right? And so that is how the modern scholar deals with the lord liar lunatic
• 33:41
  Abigail Boone: Let's not include misunderstood. That's silly.
• 33:44
  Charlie Loften: Right. Well, I'm just I'm just, you know, that's just how that's how some people process it. Uh-huh. But if in fact we have an accurate recording, and this is what Jesus said, you cannot be wishy washy about it.
• 33:59
  Abigail Boone: Yeah. Or just assume you didn't hear anything. Right. What he's, because there's some
• 34:04
  Charlie Loften: It's a call to action.
• 34:05
  Abigail Boone: Well, there's some times that, like, kids talk nonstop, and so you can ignore probably, like, 70% of what they say, but then there's sometimes that they say one thing where you're like, Okay, well, we can't do one thing. Right. That's pretty substantial, what you just said. Right.
• 34:21
  Charlie Loften: They have, and again, and the leaders here have chosen. We hear you.
• 34:27
  Abigail Boone: But because we heard you, We we now have to do
• 34:30
  Charlie Loften: hear you, and either we are going to follow the prostitutes and the tax collectors into this new kingdom that you're talking about, and choose to not reject the son, but follow the son instead, we could do that. No, we are not doing that. We we do in fact reject you. We and we do not believe that you are connected to these Old Testament prophecies. We know that you're saying it, and again, so either you are a dangerous liar or an even more dangerous lunatic.
• 35:06
  The only real option is to get the piece off the board. Yeah. Which then moves as a transition to now we are on what is called passion week, where we just had Palm Sunday and we are, it may be Monday by this point, right? We are working our way towards Friday.
• 35:23
  Abigail Boone: Okay.
• 35:25
  Charlie Loften: And, we'll get a little bit closer in our, next parable, the unfortunately titled The Parable of the 10 Virgins.
• 35:34
  Abigail Boone: Oh, that's the one that I've read. You've read that one? Yeah, I like
• 35:37
  Charlie Loften: that one. Yeah, okay.
• 35:38
  Abigail Boone: Paired with other parables, I've never read it by itself, so I don't know how it is. It's standalwoods.
• 35:43
  Charlie Loften: Don't know how we'll have to decide. Are we just going to say maidens?
• 35:46
  Abigail Boone: No. I think virgins is fine. That's what it is. Right? Fair enough.
• 35:50
  Charlie Loften: Fair enough. Fair enough. Alright. So we will continue on this journey through, kind of passion week with some of these more kingdom oriented parables next week. Abigail, thank you as always for joining us, and we'll see you next week for the parable of the 10 virgins.
• 36:10
  Thank you for listening to the Cultivate podcast. Our hope is that you are taking steps to go deeper in your faith, that you're asking big questions, and you're looking for answers. We hope that we can be a resource for you through our podcast and any other way that we can help you. You can find all our episodes anywhere that you can find podcasts, including YouTube. And, again, thank you so much for joining us.