Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / High school football star, Ahmaud Arbery, unarmed, shot dead: Shooter claims citizens arrest

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High school football star, Ahmaud Arbery, unarmed, shot dead: Shooter claims citizens arrest · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace. Here, at a time when we
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Speaker 1: for you for free. Goodbye, friend, keep the faith. How
1:42
Speaker 1: does a young guy jogging through a residential neighborhood end
1:47
Speaker 1: up being pursued and gunned down debt or is that
1:53
Speaker 1: what happened? I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank
1:58
Speaker 1: you for being with us. Climb Stories with Nancy Grace.
2:10
Speaker 1: Let's kick it off. Take a listen to this operators
2:16
Speaker 1: breaks out here. There's a guy in the house right
2:18
Speaker 1: and rail's house under constructions. Okay, do you do you
2:22
Speaker 1: have your address or the other a house of address? Uh?
2:26
Speaker 1: Right at two nineteen or two twenty. And he said,
2:31
Speaker 1: someone them breaking into it right now. No, it's it's
2:34
Speaker 1: all open. It's under constructions. And he's running right now,
2:37
Speaker 1: Verry Goods right now. Okay, what is he doing? He's
2:41
Speaker 1: running down the street. Okay, exactly, Okay, that's fine. I'll
2:46
Speaker 1: get them out there. I just need to know what
2:49
Speaker 1: he was doing wrong? Was he just on the premisesn't
2:52
Speaker 1: not supposed to be the week and stuff on it
2:58
Speaker 1: and you've been caught on them. Were a bunch before night?
3:02
Speaker 1: Kind of an arguable thing out here. The man is
3:05
Speaker 1: fielding the house of Jeff D do finishing. Okay, that's fine,
3:13
Speaker 1: white T shirt, black guy, white sur and he's done.
3:16
Speaker 1: Black rounds done, run back ridd Okay, what happened? Was
3:23
Speaker 1: the guy breaking into a home? Was he just jogging again?
3:29
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. This is a case
3:31
Speaker 1: that is tearing a part of community estate and taking
3:35
Speaker 1: the center stage in national news. Joining me an all
3:38
Speaker 1: star panel to break it down and put it back
3:40
Speaker 1: together again. Kirk Nurmi, former trial lawyer for convicted killer
3:46
Speaker 1: Jody Arius and author of Trapped with miss Arius on Amazon.
3:52
Speaker 1: Renowned psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, doctor
3:55
Speaker 1: Angela Arnold, and boy do we need his drink? Jeff Cortesi,
4:00
Speaker 1: former special Agent FBI. Doctor Katherine Maloney, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner,
4:06
Speaker 1: Erie County Medical Examiner's Office in Buffalo. But first to
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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page. Now, this
4:14
Speaker 1: happened in the small town of Brunswick, Georgia. Residential area. Brunswick,
4:22
Speaker 1: compared to other big cities like La New York Atlanta,
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Speaker 1: is small, but there's a good bit of business there.
4:31
Speaker 1: It's near the Georgia coast. This was a really nice
4:36
Speaker 1: residential community. There was construction going on in the community
4:40
Speaker 1: and I want to understand there are two sides to
4:43
Speaker 1: this story. One side is that the guy gunned down,
4:49
Speaker 1: Ahmad Aarbury, was breaking into a home under construction. So
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Speaker 1: was it just a dig site? How advanced was construction?
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Speaker 1: Did he just walk around looking to see what was happening?
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Speaker 1: Is he the person that has been spotted in the
5:06
Speaker 1: past caught on camera breaking into residential homes where people
5:10
Speaker 1: are at home, where people live there, or was he
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Speaker 1: just jogging in the neighborhood and gets gunned down or
5:19
Speaker 1: is it somewhere in between. Straight out to Levi Page,
5:23
Speaker 1: crim online dot Com investigative reporter, I hear the nine
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Speaker 1: one one call that was before the shooting. What do
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Speaker 1: you know now, Levi Page? What do we know about
5:35
Speaker 1: the construction site itself? Well, we know that this was
5:39
Speaker 1: a home in the Sentilla Shores neighborhood of Brunswick, Georgia.
5:44
Speaker 1: It's February twenty third in the afternoon, and there's this
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Speaker 1: home that's under construction that they say the homeowner couldn't
5:52
Speaker 1: finish construction, so it was just kind of sitting there
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Speaker 1: and Ahmad Rberry, he's twenty five years old, and he's
6:00
Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, wait wait right there, So the
6:05
Speaker 1: homeowner could not finish it. So it was See when
6:11
Speaker 1: you first hear under construction, you think that there are
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Speaker 1: people out there working on and the hammering and saghing.
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Speaker 1: But this sounds more alike a home that was under construction,
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Speaker 1: that everything had halted. Correct. Okay, let me rephrase my question,
6:28
Speaker 1: Leavi b Page. Was it just the bare bones? Was
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Speaker 1: at a home that was being remodeled? I mean, were
6:36
Speaker 1: there walls? Was there a ceiling? What do we know
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Speaker 1: about the scene. I don't think it was. It was
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Speaker 1: basically bare bones. It was not a fully developed home.
6:46
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if there were walls to it. Jackie's
6:48
Speaker 1: sleeping pull up another image. Okay, guys, before we go
6:51
Speaker 1: any further, take a listen to more of that nine
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Speaker 1: one one call. Let's see what we can learns emergency.
7:00
Speaker 1: I'm not here till shorts as a black male run down?
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Speaker 1: Where we're at Satilla's Shores. I don't know what three
7:08
Speaker 1: world stop radic Sir, Hello, sir, sir, where are you at? Hello? Hello?
7:27
Speaker 1: Okay there. You hear the caller to nine one one
7:29
Speaker 1: say we're in Satilla's Shores. You hear there's a black
7:33
Speaker 1: male running down the street. Doesn't know exact address, and
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Speaker 1: you can hear him calling out stop right there, Hold
7:42
Speaker 1: on just a moment. To Kirk nermy former lawyer for
7:47
Speaker 1: Jody Arius and author. We've all seen Andy Mayberry right
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Speaker 1: where people are always making citizens arrests, But how often
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Speaker 1: does that really happen if there is a burglary. Let's
8:03
Speaker 1: just say there's a burglary and the burglar starts running
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Speaker 1: Kurt Nrmy, it's my understanding that for a burglary, cops
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Speaker 1: are not to shoot the person, clarify citizens, arrest, and
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Speaker 1: deadly force Kurt Nancy. This isn't maybe a rfd B
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Speaker 1: far This is a kind of execution that really stains
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Speaker 1: the soul of the nation. These men. We don't even
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Speaker 1: know that there's a burglary. I hate to even presuppose
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Speaker 1: that from what Levi has told us and everything I've heard.
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Speaker 1: That's why I said, let's assume what we're hearing on
8:45
Speaker 1: the NIMA one call is correct. This person was in
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Speaker 1: a home construction site. I mean, if there are not walls,
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Speaker 1: there's I don't know that that would be considered entering.
9:01
Speaker 1: Let's just assume he was on the side and then
9:04
Speaker 1: he leaves. But even if it is a burglary, even
9:08
Speaker 1: if you're right there. I don't believe even police are
9:12
Speaker 1: justified in using deadly force shooting somebody for a burglary. No,
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Speaker 1: not at all, Not at all, even if they are
9:20
Speaker 1: running away, as was the case of this jogger, This
9:25
Speaker 1: was not any kind of action that the police would
9:29
Speaker 1: be justified in taking. So this claim of citizens arrest
9:33
Speaker 1: is certainly lost on me as it comes to the
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Speaker 1: shooting of this man. Who's jumping in Who isn't This
9:42
Speaker 1: is Levin. I just want to point out said according
9:45
Speaker 1: to the Brunswick News, Nancy that he was one of
9:48
Speaker 1: the person that called ninety one, the person that lived
9:51
Speaker 1: in the area said that he was walking inside an
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Speaker 1: open home that was under construction for some time. So
9:57
Speaker 1: open home because um, okay, he's told him a signed
10:01
Speaker 1: it was a shell. I've got to tell you wrong
10:03
Speaker 1: or right. When I was growing up in a very
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Speaker 1: rural area and somebody would finally start building a home,
10:12
Speaker 1: we would walk in and look around at the construction
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Speaker 1: site and go, wow, this is gonna be pretty. I
10:17
Speaker 1: bet this is the bedroom and this is the bathroom.
10:20
Speaker 1: I don't know that that's considered a burglary. I actually
10:23
Speaker 1: think technically it would be. But even if that's true,
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Speaker 1: police themselves are not justified under the law and gunning
10:33
Speaker 1: somebody down that's running away from a non violent crime
10:50
Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about
10:55
Speaker 1: a case that is tearing not only a community date
11:01
Speaker 1: but a country apart. Ahmad Arbory, just twenty five years old,
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Speaker 1: gunned down by two people that say they see him
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Speaker 1: inappropriately illegally on a construction site and the guy takes
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Speaker 1: off running. They also tell nine on one, hey, he
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Speaker 1: this guy has been spotted on video before breaking in.
11:25
Speaker 1: Is that true? Don't know. But even if it was,
11:30
Speaker 1: not saying it is. But even if it was, do
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Speaker 1: is that justified deadly force a citizen's arrest? Take a
11:37
Speaker 1: listen to this. Gregory McMichael and his neighbors in Satilla's
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Speaker 1: Shores in Brunswick, Georgia have seen a number of homes
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Speaker 1: under construction robbed recently. One of those homes has surveillance
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Speaker 1: cameras and a man has been recorded prowling the properties
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Speaker 1: late at night. It's a situation that McMichael has experience with.
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Speaker 1: He has an extensive law enforcement background as an investigator
12:00
Speaker 1: from multiple agencies in the area. When he sees an
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Speaker 1: unknown man on one of the properties on a Sunday
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Speaker 1: afternoon when no construction is taking place, he calls nine
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Speaker 1: one one to report what he believes could be a robbery.
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Speaker 1: When the person he suspects as a burglar takes off running,
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Speaker 1: Gregory McMichael, armed with a pistol, tells his thirty four
12:21
Speaker 1: year old son Travis, to grab a shotgun. The two
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Speaker 1: men head out the door, talking to a nine one
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Speaker 1: one operator as they try to catch the person he
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Speaker 1: believes could be responsible for break ins in their quiet neighborhood.
12:33
Speaker 1: You're hearing Dave mac investigative reporter with Crime online dot Com.
12:38
Speaker 1: I want to open up what's happening to the panel
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Speaker 1: with me, Kurt Narmy, doctor Angela Arnold, Jeff Cortesi, doctor
12:45
Speaker 1: Katherine Maloney, and Levi Page. Jeff Cortes, a former FBI
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Speaker 1: special agent, jump in. Jeff, Well, Nia, I'm really just
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Speaker 1: not sure what the plan was. You know, as we
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Speaker 1: just heard, this was a investigator. He supposed to understand
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Speaker 1: how these things work. Even if everything he says about
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Speaker 1: Aubrey is true, it was reckless from the from from
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Speaker 1: the onset. Reckless is one thing, but there's such a
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Speaker 1: thing as reckless homicide. And it may be reckless from
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Speaker 1: one point of the view. But let's just say that
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Speaker 1: that was his home that was being built, and he
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Speaker 1: was wandering around looking at the construction, and then suddenly
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Speaker 1: two guys would start with weapons start chasing him. I'd
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Speaker 1: run to Now, these two guys probably know Gregory McMichael
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Speaker 1: and Travis McMichael, the father and the son probably know
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Speaker 1: whose home that is. It's being built, so they know
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Speaker 1: that Ahmad Aubrey is not the homeowner. That said it
13:54
Speaker 1: still doesn't explain a way of shooting to you leave
13:59
Speaker 1: a page pick it up right there. So, Nancy, we
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Speaker 1: know that twenty five year old Ahmed Aubrey caught the
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Speaker 1: attention of greg McMichael. He worked for decades as an
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Speaker 1: investigator for the Brunswick Judicial Circuit District Attorney's office, and
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Speaker 1: he was outside his son's home. His son is Travis McMichael,
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Speaker 1: and he spotted Ahmed Arbury and he called nine one
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Speaker 1: at one o eight pm and he claimed that Arbury
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Speaker 1: stopped at the property of a home under construction, like
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Speaker 1: we've been talking about. He said he matched the description
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Speaker 1: of someone that he'd seen in the neighborhood before who
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Speaker 1: put their hands down their pants at gesture that he
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Speaker 1: suspected was because he had a gun, and McMichael became suspicious.
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Speaker 1: He says, I think this is the person I've seen
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Speaker 1: before acting suspicious. So he told his son, come on,
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Speaker 1: we're gonna go get him. They got in a truck
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Speaker 1: that Travis McMichael, thirty four years old, was driving, and
15:01
Speaker 1: his father, Greg McMichael was in the back of the truck.
15:04
Speaker 1: In the bed of the truck. They chased him down
15:08
Speaker 1: and Travis McMichael got out of the truck, got into
15:13
Speaker 1: a fight with twenty four year old Ahmed Rbury and
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Speaker 1: shot him and killed him. Guys, take a listen to
15:19
Speaker 1: our friends at WTLV w j x X news. This
15:23
Speaker 1: is Troy Kless. The Satilla Shoes neighborhood is quiet as
15:28
Speaker 1: a mother. I never I never worried about him jogging.
15:31
Speaker 1: I was just running because as long as he stayed
15:35
Speaker 1: within the streets, I mean, no one's tobogg. I raised
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Speaker 1: him as yes ma'am, no ma'am type of guy. Rburry
15:42
Speaker 1: went jogging down Satilla Drive around one pm. On Sunday.
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Speaker 1: According to a police report, Greg McMichael spotted Rburry running
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Speaker 1: down the street and thought he had been going and
15:52
Speaker 1: to this home, which at the time did not have
15:55
Speaker 1: doors or windows. Right now it's all open, it's under
16:01
Speaker 1: construction and he's grown it right Okay, what is he doing?
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Speaker 1: He's running? Gun McMichael stated. He and his son, Travis
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Speaker 1: McMichael got guns and followed Aarbury down the street in
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Speaker 1: their truck, eventually stopping him. Travis got out of the
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Speaker 1: truck with his gun and got into an altercation with Arbury.
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Speaker 1: What were you learning now? Is the case of this
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Speaker 1: young man, Ahmad Aubury being shot is headed to a
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Speaker 1: Georgia grand jury. I want to go back to what
16:36
Speaker 1: we were learning in the neighborhood. Kirk Nurmi, one of
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Speaker 1: the aggressors, say that Abury put his hands down his
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Speaker 1: pants as if he had a gun. I don't know
16:51
Speaker 1: when you're chasing someone under the law, that makes you
16:58
Speaker 1: the aggressor. Then when somebody takes out a gun and
17:03
Speaker 1: turns it you, that's because you're chasing them. But here
17:08
Speaker 1: Arebury was unarmed. We also know that the two jump
17:14
Speaker 1: out of the truck and a fist fight starts. They
17:19
Speaker 1: have described it as a violent fight. How does that
17:23
Speaker 1: change your opinion, Jeff Cortesi or does no? It really
17:27
Speaker 1: doesn't have individuals with guns, presumably with no uniform on,
17:35
Speaker 1: nothing to identify themselves, who try to stop somebody who
17:40
Speaker 1: is running down the street. There are only one of
17:43
Speaker 1: a couple possible outcomes, and this, unfortunately, was one that
17:49
Speaker 1: this former investigator should have anticipated, which should have kept
17:52
Speaker 1: him at home. Back to you leave page, what can
17:57
Speaker 1: you tell me about a thirty second video that has emerged. Yeah,
18:01
Speaker 1: so there's a thirty one second video that was released
18:04
Speaker 1: to the Atlanta Journal Constitution and it is someone that
18:09
Speaker 1: is driving in a vehicle and they're recording from their
18:13
Speaker 1: cell phone presumably, and they are pulling up to the
18:18
Speaker 1: scene right before the shooting happens, and we see the
18:23
Speaker 1: twenty five year old Ahmed Rburry try to get away
18:28
Speaker 1: from the two men that were chasing him, and then
18:32
Speaker 1: we see a fight breakout. We hear one gun shot
18:36
Speaker 1: that apparently misses the twenty five year old, and then
18:40
Speaker 1: another gun shot and he falls over dead. So bottom line,
18:44
Speaker 1: the argument that there was a struggle for the gun
18:49
Speaker 1: and then the gun goes off. Is that what is
18:53
Speaker 1: depicted in the video Leavi page Well, it is hard
18:57
Speaker 1: to say exactly, Nancy, because this is a person recording
19:01
Speaker 1: from their cell phone, and we don't see everything because
19:04
Speaker 1: they pull up right before it happens. But we do
19:07
Speaker 1: see a struggle, Nancy. We do see twenty five year
19:11
Speaker 1: old Abed Rberry in a white T shirt and shorts,
19:15
Speaker 1: swinging fists, looks like he's trying to get away, and
19:20
Speaker 1: we hear a gunshot and then another gun shot and
19:23
Speaker 1: then he falls over. Well, to me, when I hear
19:26
Speaker 1: you're fighting over the gun means that you're not just
19:30
Speaker 1: taking punches, that your hand to hand were like wrestling
19:33
Speaker 1: trying to get the gun away. Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys.
20:01
Speaker 1: A video has emerged in the shooting death of a
20:04
Speaker 1: twenty five year old young men. Claims are he had
20:07
Speaker 1: been burglarying a home. Other claims are he was jogging
20:11
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood. Whatever that truth is. Chasing someone down
20:18
Speaker 1: as a citizen and shooting them for a non violent
20:23
Speaker 1: felony is illegal even for a police officer to do,
20:28
Speaker 1: much less a citizen. Who's to say that, I can't
20:31
Speaker 1: say I see Jackie Howard over here, and she starts
20:34
Speaker 1: running and that makes me suspicious, so I go shoot
20:36
Speaker 1: her down. No, absolutely not. A video has emerged, a
20:42
Speaker 1: thirty six second video. It was at a radio station
20:46
Speaker 1: website and has then been taken off the website. Was
20:49
Speaker 1: apparently taken by a person in a vehicle that pulls
20:52
Speaker 1: up behind the pickup truck that was stopped on the road.
20:57
Speaker 1: That is the report. The recording has sound, but the
21:00
Speaker 1: yelling in the recording is largely you can't understand it.
21:06
Speaker 1: What we know is that one man is in the
21:08
Speaker 1: bed of the pickup, and I assume that is sixty
21:10
Speaker 1: four year old Gregory McMichael. The other is standing near
21:14
Speaker 1: the driver's side door. A man in a T shirt,
21:17
Speaker 1: who we now know to be Ahmad Rbrey, just twenty
21:19
Speaker 1: five years old, approaches, goes around the pickup on the
21:23
Speaker 1: right side, and just as he's passing the front of
21:25
Speaker 1: the vehicle, suddenly a fight breaks out with a man
21:29
Speaker 1: with a shotgun. A shot goes off, the two disappear.
21:32
Speaker 1: The man standing in the back of the truck takes
21:34
Speaker 1: out a handgun but doesn't fire. A second shot is
21:38
Speaker 1: then heard. As the fighting had been going on offscreen.
21:45
Speaker 1: That's what we know right now. Joining me, Doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrist, Atlanta,
21:52
Speaker 1: Doctor Arnold, if you see someone breaking in your home,
21:56
Speaker 1: that instills fear, they are the aggressor and people can fire.
22:03
Speaker 1: But when you are chasing somebody down the road that
22:08
Speaker 1: you think may have burgled somebody else's home and nobody's there,
22:12
Speaker 1: it's not even a real home yet, it's a construction site.
22:16
Speaker 1: How can that be justified as reasonable fear a serious
22:20
Speaker 1: bodily harm? But can't they also, Nancy, they left their
22:26
Speaker 1: homes that the two men left their house, but garnered
22:31
Speaker 1: got their guns before they left their home. Who does
22:34
Speaker 1: that in the middle of the day on a Sunday.
22:37
Speaker 1: They had been to me, it sounds like they had
22:39
Speaker 1: been thinking about this. They were waiting for him, and
22:42
Speaker 1: they were so they were so ready to go get
22:46
Speaker 1: this guy because they had seen them on the tapes
22:49
Speaker 1: and all of this other kind of stuff. What did
22:52
Speaker 1: the guy steal? Did he even have anything in his hands?
22:55
Speaker 1: Like you said, we used to do that all the time.
22:57
Speaker 1: We used to go through houses all the time that
22:59
Speaker 1: we're being built. It was just today and no harm
23:01
Speaker 1: intended whatsoever. I want you to take a listen now
23:05
Speaker 1: to cbsdu's correspond to omar Villa Franca, my mom is
23:08
Speaker 1: belong with us, and he's not with us because two
23:11
Speaker 1: men follow him while he was jogging and killed him.
23:15
Speaker 1: Amad Aarbury was shot and killed in Brunswick, Georgia. We
23:18
Speaker 1: spoke to his mother, Wanda Jones. What do you think
23:22
Speaker 1: should have already happened to these men and the rest
23:25
Speaker 1: should have been made already. According to neighbors, there had
23:28
Speaker 1: been break ins in the area. Aarbury was allegedly spotted
23:32
Speaker 1: at a home that was under construction before he began
23:35
Speaker 1: to run. Nine one one calls came in moments later.
23:39
Speaker 1: Right now, No, it's all hope and it's under construction
23:43
Speaker 1: and he's running right, Okay, what is he doing? He's
23:48
Speaker 1: running down. According to a police report, Gregory McMichael told
23:53
Speaker 1: police he saw Aarbury run by and recognized him from
23:56
Speaker 1: the break ins. According to the report, McMichael and his
24:00
Speaker 1: thirty four year old son Travis, grabbed his shotgun and
24:03
Speaker 1: a pistol and got into their truck to go after
24:06
Speaker 1: Aubrey too. Doctor Catherine Maloney, Deputy Chief Medical exam in
24:09
Speaker 1: our Erie County Medical Examiner's Office, Buffalo, New York. What
24:12
Speaker 1: do we know about twenty five year old Ahmad Aubrey's injuries?
24:17
Speaker 1: What looks like he suffered a close range shotgun wound
24:21
Speaker 1: to his abdomen, So that would have resulted in probably
24:26
Speaker 1: rapid and severe blood loss where he probably would have
24:32
Speaker 1: been conscious for some time and could have potentially moved
24:35
Speaker 1: so he could have run. Probably he would have been
24:38
Speaker 1: able to talk things like that, but with the blood
24:40
Speaker 1: loss and just the shock from the pain, he probably
24:43
Speaker 1: wouldn't have gotten very far and then would have kind
24:44
Speaker 1: of collapsed and got into shock. We know that he
24:49
Speaker 1: Aubrey fell face down, that he was rolled over by
24:55
Speaker 1: one of the McMichaels to see if he had a gun,
24:57
Speaker 1: and he did not. Questions you, I know that one
25:01
Speaker 1: of the weapons used was a three to fifty seven
25:05
Speaker 1: Magnum the other one was a shotgun Leavi Page. Do
25:10
Speaker 1: we know which weapon was used to actually shoot Abury
25:14
Speaker 1: the shotgun or the three fifty seven The shotgun that
25:17
Speaker 1: Trevis McMichael had to doctor Catherine Maloney. What would being
25:21
Speaker 1: shot with a shotgun at close range due to the
25:25
Speaker 1: human body, Well, depending on the type of ammunition. If
25:29
Speaker 1: it was you know, it could be like a flug,
25:31
Speaker 1: which would be a single large bullet versus if it
25:34
Speaker 1: was multiple smaller bullets or pellets. They would have entered
25:39
Speaker 1: the body and then basically would have destroyed the tissue
25:42
Speaker 1: that they hit. So after going through the skin in
25:44
Speaker 1: the abdomen, most likely he would have suffered injuries to
25:47
Speaker 1: his intestines, his liver, possibly his stomach or spleen. He
25:52
Speaker 1: would have probably pretty rapidly gone into shock, and there
25:55
Speaker 1: would have been a lot of blood bloss When you
25:56
Speaker 1: go into shot, what effect does that have on what
26:00
Speaker 1: you feel and what you can perceive happening around you. Well,
26:05
Speaker 1: I imagine right after he was shot, he probably would
26:07
Speaker 1: have been in a great deal of pain and then
26:11
Speaker 1: probably panic would have set in as he realized he
26:15
Speaker 1: had been shot and experienced the pain of being shot
26:17
Speaker 1: and realized, you know, that he was losing blood rapidly
26:21
Speaker 1: before he subsequently lost consciousness. To Leavipage climb online dot
26:26
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, how many times was he actually shot?
26:30
Speaker 1: I know there were two gun discharges, but how many
26:34
Speaker 1: times was he shot? It appears that he was shot
26:37
Speaker 1: once that one miss and they but he was shot
26:39
Speaker 1: in the app Yeah, was he shot from the front
26:42
Speaker 1: to the back or the back to the front, front
26:44
Speaker 1: to the back, front to the back. Guys, take a
26:47
Speaker 1: Listen to CBS News correspond to Mr Villa Franca. Gregory
26:51
Speaker 1: McMichael told investigators are very violently attacked Travis and the
26:56
Speaker 1: two fought over the shotgun before Travis shot twice and
26:59
Speaker 1: kill him. The prosecutor who previously had the case says
27:03
Speaker 1: Travis acted out of self defense and the pursuers acted
27:07
Speaker 1: within the scope of Georgia's citizens Arret statute essentially deputizes
27:11
Speaker 1: all citizens to go out and perform police functions. They
27:15
Speaker 1: did not do that properly. Lee Merritt, an attorney for
27:18
Speaker 1: Arbury's family, says he believes there have not been any
27:21
Speaker 1: indictments because Gregory McMichael is a former investigator for the
27:26
Speaker 1: Brunswick District Attorney's office. That's why the case was transferred
27:29
Speaker 1: to the Ware County District Attorney. There's more than enough
27:33
Speaker 1: evidence for a case for murder. What do you think
27:35
Speaker 1: those men should have done? They should have waited until
27:40
Speaker 1: deathalis arrived. They had already made a call to Night
27:42
Speaker 1: with Wine Crime Stories with Nancy Grace does. The facts
28:00
Speaker 1: are murky, but we do know this. In the worst
28:05
Speaker 1: case scenario for Ahmad Arebrey, if he was on a
28:11
Speaker 1: construction site, realize he got spotted maybe or maybe didn't
28:15
Speaker 1: commit burglaries in the past, takes off running. Even if
28:19
Speaker 1: all that is true, the law does not justify under
28:22
Speaker 1: any citizens arrest statute that you grab your gun and
28:26
Speaker 1: chase somebody down and inflict mortal deadly force on that
28:31
Speaker 1: person when you're not yourself being pursued. That is clearly
28:38
Speaker 1: what happened here, even in the worst case scenario for
28:41
Speaker 1: this young man. Guys, a case is tearing our country apart.
28:45
Speaker 1: If you have any information on this case at all.
28:48
Speaker 1: The tip line is nine one two two six four
28:51
Speaker 1: one three three three nine one two two six four
28:55
Speaker 1: one three three three And Kurt nermy listeners are viewers
29:00
Speaker 1: maybe wondering why I keep taking the worst case for
29:05
Speaker 1: Aubrey side. The reason is, even under that case, this
29:12
Speaker 1: type of deadly force is not justified. It's just not
29:16
Speaker 1: justified at all. Agree or disagree, Oh no, you're absolutely right.
29:22
Speaker 1: That's why I used the word execution earlier. You know,
29:24
Speaker 1: like the doctor said, these guys might have planned it.
29:27
Speaker 1: They were ready to go, and with the guy in
29:29
Speaker 1: the back of the truck, it looked like they were
29:31
Speaker 1: going hunting, and I think the doctor was I don't
29:34
Speaker 1: think that there's any way that they could have known
29:37
Speaker 1: that at one o'clock in the afternoon on Sunday they
29:39
Speaker 1: were going to see a burglar. Now, I do know
29:42
Speaker 1: the whole neighborhood was very frustrated over many many break ins.
29:46
Speaker 1: There have been a lot of burglaries in the area,
29:48
Speaker 1: and they were angry and they were frustrated, and the
29:51
Speaker 1: burglar couldn't be stopped. But I don't think there's any
29:53
Speaker 1: way they're lying at wait at one o'clock in the
29:56
Speaker 1: afternoon thinking they'll see a burglar in broad daylight. However,
30:00
Speaker 1: they mobilized very quickly and chase the guy in their
30:04
Speaker 1: pickup truck. Take a listen now to terrate minor needs
30:08
Speaker 1: for w j XT. Police say McMichael then armed himself
30:12
Speaker 1: with his three fifty seven handguns. He and his son
30:14
Speaker 1: followed Arbury, who was running for two blocks before, the
30:17
Speaker 1: report states McMichael shouted stop, stop, we want to talk
30:21
Speaker 1: to you. They pulled up next to Arbury, and police
30:24
Speaker 1: say the former investigator's son exited the truck with a shotgun.
30:28
Speaker 1: McMichael told police Arbury then violently attacked his son and
30:32
Speaker 1: the two men started fighting over the shotgun. Travis McMichael
30:35
Speaker 1: fired two shots, killing Arbury at the spot of this memorial.
30:38
Speaker 1: Police say that McMichaels rolled Arbury over to see if
30:41
Speaker 1: he had a weapon, and no weapon was found. Arbury's
30:44
Speaker 1: former football coach suspects it was a case of mistaken identity.
30:48
Speaker 1: People are known for jogging that area all the time,
30:51
Speaker 1: and people know Mod jogs the area like he would
30:54
Speaker 1: stop and sometimes he was in the middle of his
30:56
Speaker 1: workout and he'll just tell you, like basketball, what the
30:58
Speaker 1: younger keys. He'll right out greed and just kind of
31:01
Speaker 1: shoot hoops with the kids and then you know, at
31:03
Speaker 1: the end of the game, you'll just go back to jogging.
31:06
Speaker 1: That's the kind of person he was, or everybody knew
31:08
Speaker 1: him for exercise. This case is headed to a grand jury.
31:14
Speaker 1: But what has taken so long? Listen again to terrate
31:19
Speaker 1: minor Well. This shooting happened in Glenn County back on
31:21
Speaker 1: February the twenty third, before the coronavirus pandemic, but the
31:26
Speaker 1: case was transferred to Ware County because of the shooters
31:29
Speaker 1: families ties to local law enforcement. The case was then
31:32
Speaker 1: transferred again to the Hinesville District Attorney's office for the
31:36
Speaker 1: very same reason. Arbery's family says the use of deadly
31:39
Speaker 1: force just wasn't necessary and they want the shooter and
31:42
Speaker 1: his father held accountable. I'm not here to a door
31:47
Speaker 1: at the white male running down there? Where at the
31:51
Speaker 1: tiller shorge? I don't know what greek wrong. That's the
31:55
Speaker 1: voice of former District attorney investigator Greg McMichael, suspecting twenty
31:59
Speaker 1: five years world Ahmad Aarbury was burglarizing houses under construction
32:03
Speaker 1: at one o eight pm in this Brunswick neighborhood. According
32:07
Speaker 1: to the police report, McMichael called for his son, Travis,
32:10
Speaker 1: who grabbed his shotgun because they didn't know if the
32:12
Speaker 1: mail was armed or not. I didn't even know what
32:15
Speaker 1: he was doing. Long what they're not supposed to be.
32:20
Speaker 1: He's been caught on a camera a bunch before night. Okay,
32:24
Speaker 1: how do we know that's the person caught on camera?
32:27
Speaker 1: Have these two been watching right now? I'm trying to
32:31
Speaker 1: understand the delay in any formal charges or at least
32:35
Speaker 1: a grand jury investigation. Now, Kirk nurremy former divise attorney
32:40
Speaker 1: for Jodi Arius, author of Trapped with miss Arius. In
32:44
Speaker 1: my jurisdiction, which had a very very heavy crime saturation,
32:50
Speaker 1: a grand jury was held twice a week, every week,
32:53
Speaker 1: rain or shine. In fact, we had lawyers I present
32:56
Speaker 1: to the grand jury. When I first started, we had
32:59
Speaker 1: lawyers debt Hey. That's all they did was present to
33:01
Speaker 1: grand jury twice a week. They would hear between one
33:05
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty and three hundred cases a day. Then
33:09
Speaker 1: those indictments or nobiles would be fed to the clerks
33:13
Speaker 1: office and assigned to courtrooms randomly by number. One courtroom
33:17
Speaker 1: might get ten shopliftings, one courtroom might get ten murders.
33:20
Speaker 1: But they were signed randomly by number to courtrooms. Long
33:25
Speaker 1: story short, twice a week like clockwork. So what is
33:30
Speaker 1: the hold up with not necessarily a grand jury indictment,
33:33
Speaker 1: but a grand jury investigation that most likely would lead
33:36
Speaker 1: to an indictment. What's the hold up? Nurmi? Well, I think,
33:40
Speaker 1: from the looks of it, by the time that all
33:42
Speaker 1: these conflicts got resolved and the authorities were ready to
33:47
Speaker 1: prosecute the grand I mean all the people recusing themselves
33:51
Speaker 1: that conflict, that conflict due to his size of law enforcement.
33:55
Speaker 1: Now Georgia has suspended the grand juries and that is
33:59
Speaker 1: the reason for cited anyway, for the lack of indictments,
34:04
Speaker 1: and unfortunately the seappears the lack of arrest as well. Well,
34:08
Speaker 1: you're absolutely correct, the grand juries have been suspended until
34:12
Speaker 1: June thirteen at the earliest. The reality is a grand
34:17
Speaker 1: jury is made up from anywhere between sixteen to twenty
34:20
Speaker 1: people to forty three forty four people, and they are
34:24
Speaker 1: pulled from the voter pool and residence. So that's how
34:29
Speaker 1: you get a grand jury. A grand jury is usually
34:31
Speaker 1: in session for about three to four months, and they come,
34:36
Speaker 1: as I told you, once or twice a week. That's
34:38
Speaker 1: in big jurisdictions. So this grand jury in a much
34:43
Speaker 1: smaller area may only meet, let's just say, once every
34:47
Speaker 1: other week or once a month. But long story short,
34:51
Speaker 1: people want to see movement in the case. They want
34:54
Speaker 1: to know the case is being investigated. Because doctor Angela Arnold,
34:58
Speaker 1: we're just hypo emphasizing, we are speculating about what we
35:02
Speaker 1: think happened. Although we've got a video, I'm looking right
35:05
Speaker 1: at it. You can see it. At crime online dot Com.
35:08
Speaker 1: I don't think the video lies, so I've got a
35:11
Speaker 1: pretty good idea. Plus the two the father's son MC michaels,
35:16
Speaker 1: have given statements publicly about what happened, so I've got
35:20
Speaker 1: a pretty good idea. So people get concerned when they
35:24
Speaker 1: don't see the wheels of justice turning, and I don't
35:29
Speaker 1: blame them, and as they should. The house. It's very scary,
35:34
Speaker 1: isn't it that you could go outside, And there's so
35:38
Speaker 1: many questions about this, but that you could go outside
35:40
Speaker 1: and do something that somebody doesn't like it, somebody can
35:42
Speaker 1: shoot you and get away with And one question I
35:46
Speaker 1: have been asking LEVI was was he dressed as a jogger?
35:51
Speaker 1: Amada Arbridge's twenty five years old. I'm looking right at him.
35:53
Speaker 1: He's got on a white tshirt and shorts and tennis
35:57
Speaker 1: shoes and Nancy. A lot of people were wondering, you know,
36:00
Speaker 1: if he was gonna rob any anywhere, wouldn't he have
36:03
Speaker 1: a duffel bag something to store items in? I mean,
36:06
Speaker 1: what's he gonna and what's he gonna take from a house?
36:08
Speaker 1: It's under construction, plywood, and there was no car for
36:12
Speaker 1: him to get away from the robbery scene from I mean,
36:15
Speaker 1: he was a jogger, and he was very athletic. He
36:18
Speaker 1: was a high school football star, so it would make
36:21
Speaker 1: sense that he would be out there working. He was
36:23
Speaker 1: a story playing the All Star Football Games two and twelve.
36:29
Speaker 1: You're right, what was there to steal? Even if he
36:32
Speaker 1: did steal it, what would he do with it? He's
36:34
Speaker 1: got in a pair of shorts and a T shirt.
36:36
Speaker 1: What's he gonna do? Stick it down his pants? Maybe?
36:38
Speaker 1: I don't know. But my point is, again, even if
36:41
Speaker 1: that's true, and I'm not saying it is, that still
36:44
Speaker 1: does not justify deadly forced by a citizen on someone
36:49
Speaker 1: running away. To doctor Catherine Maloney, Deputy Chief Medical examder
36:55
Speaker 1: Erie County Emmy's office in Buffalo, he bled out lying
37:02
Speaker 1: on the ground in this neighborhood. One minute, everything's fine,
37:07
Speaker 1: the next minute he's bleeding out. Twenty five years old.
37:12
Speaker 1: What does that mean to you when you hear a
37:14
Speaker 1: lay person like these witnesses say he bled out, um, Well,
37:18
Speaker 1: to me, that means that he lost so much of
37:21
Speaker 1: his blood that he basically didn't have enough to sustain
37:24
Speaker 1: his vital organs, so he couldn't transport enough oxygen to
37:28
Speaker 1: his brain and his heart and his other tissues to
37:31
Speaker 1: keep himself alive because he didn't have enough blood left
37:33
Speaker 1: to do that. A twenty five year old dead, We
37:38
Speaker 1: wait as justice and falls. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing
37:44
Speaker 1: off Goodbye friend,