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167: Why Sobriety Isn’t the Goal · Harder Than Life

• 0:07
  I'm Kelly Siegel, and this is Harder Than Life, a podcast about self-love, self-awareness, business, and health. We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple, practical advice you can start using today. Let's get living.
• 0:24
  Welcome back to the Heart of Life podcast, HTL Nation. I'm your host, Kelly Siegel, and today we are deep diving real deep into something that affects everyone, yet few talk openly about it, our relationships with alcohol. You know me, I'm all about optimizing life and business performance, mental fitness, and physical mastery. What if I told you something society deems so casual and normal could be holding you back from your highest potential?
• 0:52
  Our guest today, James Swanwick, is not only a best-selling author of the groundbreaking book, Clear, but also a true game-changer who's helped over 20,000 high performers like you and me reclaim their power over alcohol. James isn't here to preach abstinence.
• 1:10
  He's here to radically redefine how you think about drinking, exposing myths, sharing neuroscience-backed truths, and unlocking clarity, energy, and authentic connection. Today, we'll talk about habits, dopamine, the staggering numbers behind casual drinking and his powerful 4S model that just might change your life.
• 1:31
  This isn't about sobriety. It's about freedom, clarity, and being happier and harder than life. So strap in, share this episode with someone you love, and let's level up. Welcome, my friend. Thank you so much for having me, Kelly. Great to be here. Everything happens for a reason. I just stumbled on you and your book. I finished reading it yesterday.
• 1:51
  I have read Annie Grace's book as well as Amanda Kuda's. This is the best that I've read yet. I wish this existed six and a half years ago when I stopped. But before we get kicked off and I start firing these quotes at you and questions at you, for the audience that don't know who you are, give them your backstory because it's remarkable.
• 2:16
  Yeah, thank you. I grew up in Australia and I was a socially acceptable drinker in that I would have two or three drinks a night most nights of the week and on the weekends often I would get drunk.
• 2:29
  and have a good time, but I didn't get arrested. I didn't get a DUI. I didn't wake up in a ditch. I wasn't what society would deem an alcoholic. But I started drinking when I was 16, and for almost two decades, up until the age of 35, I kept that drinking regimen, which was two or three drinks a night. Sometimes it was a bottle of wine. Sometimes it was going to the bar or the pub, have a couple beers, maybe a gin and tonic.
• 2:56
  A couple beers, maybe a red wine, a couple beers, maybe something else, a rum and coke. And that caught up with me. 20 years of that caught up with me. And in 2010, I was in Austin, Texas. I was at that year's South by Southwest Festival, Oregon.
• 3:16
  And I went out to an industry party and I had two Bombay Sapphire gin and tonics. And then I went back to my hotel about 20 minutes outside of downtown Austin, went to sleep. And when I woke up the next morning, I looked in the mirror and I just looked and felt blah. And blah means average, mediocre. I was envious of other people. I was irritable. I was stressed. I hadn't been sleeping well. My relationships were strained.
• 3:41
  I was 35 pounds overweight. I had these fat rolls over my pajamas. I walked next door from the hotel to an IHOP, an international house of pancakes. And I sat there and then suddenly it dawned on me, what the hell am I doing in an IHOP?
• 3:57
  And that was the moment. That was my moment where I said, enough, James, it's time for you to take a break from alcohol and make a change. And so I committed to quitting for what I thought might be just 30 days. It's now 15 years and counting. In those 30 days, I lost 13 pounds of fat. It
• 4:22
  auditioned to become a sports center anchor on ESPN to my utter bewilderment. They gave me the job, but I ended up hosting that show for two years. My relationships improved. I looked better and I just kept going and going and going. And now fast forward 15 years, I have an organization that's called Alcohol-Free Lifestyle. We help high achievers to rewire their mindset around alcohol. As you referenced, I have this book called Clear, which helps people to get clear of alcohol.
• 4:49
  And now my mission really is to just support people to dehypnotize themselves around alcohol. I'm not here to persuade you to quit, but I am here to persuade you to put alcohol in a different part of your life, possibly. James, that's so good. I want to kick it off. There was a part of the book that just blew my mind. And I read this really quick and who I want to reach isn't the person that,
• 5:17
  has a ton of drinks. It's the one, it's you people that reach out to me and go, Kelly, the reason why you had to quit is because you were overboard. The minute that you have to make an excuse or rationalize your drinking, let's talk. That's, let's get clear. No, no pun intended. Let's get clear about what's going on here. So you, you have a quote in your book by Alan Watts and it's the wisdom of insecurity. What does that mean to you personally? And why is it the foundation of your message? We're all walking around, uh,
• 5:47
  worshiping alcohol, which I refer to as attractively packaged poison. And this attractively packaged poison becomes almost like a comfort, a security blanket. We're so used to having it around that the idea of breaking up with it feels really scary. The idea of becoming a non-drinker is,
• 6:13
  is a fundamental threat to our identity. Because who will I be if I'm not James the party guy? Who will I be if I'm not James the entertainer? Who will I be if I'm not James the networker? Who will I be if I'm not James the facilitator of good times amongst people? And that's
• 6:35
  a real identity threat because we've just grown accustomed to having this friend, and I say friend in inverted commas, with us most of the time. That wisdom is very challenging to grow accustomed to. It's very challenging to try to accept and go, wow, maybe this is a toxic friendship. Maybe this friend doesn't have my best interests at heart. Maybe this isn't serving me.
• 7:05
  And so trying to step into this potential new identity of I'm James, the alcohol-free person, I'm Kelly, I'm alcohol-free.
• 7:15
  that can create a lot of resistance in human beings. And so it's kind of like the hero's journey. It's scary. It's frightening. It's uncomfortable. But any successful person, Kelly, will tell you that success is literally standing on the top of a cliff, seeing rocks down below, and you step off anyway and trust that the safety net will appear. And it always does.
• 7:40
  Listeners, Heart of the Life Nation, don't think that we're going to preach because James' book is so different. The reason why I'm so passionate about this is because I made the same decision. And it's hard until it isn't. And it becomes so easy where when you say that –
• 8:00
  I'm not sober, I just don't drink. I just, I don't even think about it anymore. It's a non-issue. And it was, I started off the same way. So really what this is gonna be today, James, is a back and forth of if you wanna level up in your life, if you're a high achiever and you wanna go higher, if you're successful and you wanna become more successful, if you're more successful and you wanna become significant, this is the podcast for you. We're not gonna sit here and doom and gloom alcohol.
• 8:28
  but we're just going to talk about some little tweaks that if you listen to them, if you take one thing to heart, your life will get better. You'll make more money. You'll be more handsome. And heck, who knows? Maybe you'll start a podcast and start a brand like we did. But again, remember he helped 20,000 professionals do this. So 20,000 people are doing it. It's worth it. So.
• 8:51
  The number one question is people talk about willpower. And you say it's not necessary to quit drinking. You don't need the willpower. Break that down. How is it even possible? Well, most people's efforts to quit drinking involve willpower. And it's a finite resource. For example, these 30-day challenges, dry January, sober October, dry July,
• 9:15
  In essence, they're pretty good because they get people at least glimpsing what it's like to be alcohol-free. However, they are incredibly ineffective long-term. Why? Because they rely on willpower. Now, for 30 days, you're committed to not drinking and you feel like you're a prisoner and that you're depriving yourself of joy and fun. And you're just trying to get to day 30 when what? You're going to celebrate with a drink.
• 9:42
  That's willpower, right? And it's finite. And most people, when they do those 30-day challenges, they get to day 30, they celebrate with a drink, and then over the next few weeks, they return to the same level of drinking that motivated them to do the 30-day challenge in the first place. So willpower, I would submit, is the most ineffective strategy for helping someone to have a better relationship with alcohol. Okay.
• 10:04
  I submit, and based on my research, and I've been researching this for 10 years, the next most ineffective methodology is Alcoholics Anonymous, AA. A lot of reports suggest that has about a 7% long-term success rate. There's many reasons why. We can dig into that a little later if you like. Rehab is horrendous.
• 10:24
  Uh, 5% success rate. People are paying a hundred thousand dollars for a 90 day stay. And then they go out and they only to return again. And then there's, you know, motivation this time I'm going to do it. Oh, I've got my wife holding me accountable. I've got my husband holding me. I'm going to do it this time. I'm really going to do it. That's incredibly ineffective as well.
• 10:42
  So willpower is finite. It feels like you're white knuckling it. And I suggest, Kelly, most of your listeners who've attempted to reduce drinking or stop drinking in the past have been using one of those modalities. And now they're still listening to you and I talk about this right now with great interest because they haven't been able to solve it. So willpower is incredibly ineffective because it is finite and because you feel like a prisoner. And what do all prisoners want to do, Kelly? They want to break out of prison.
• 11:12
  So James, you went there and by the way, I want people to understand something about this book. The reason why I like it so much and I'm holding it up for those of you that are watching on YouTube. He has 20 to 30 pages of citing of research. This is not what he feels. He did a lot of research. He and his team and every single time he mentions a data.
• 11:37
  He cites it in the back. And I love that. I want to ask you a question about that data. And there's two questions. What does the data suggest if somebody's doing the dry January or sober October? I'd never heard of the July one. That's got to be hard. But sober October and dry January, does the research show that if you're doing that, are you out of alignment with alcohol? Well, look, you can be. It depends on what your definition of out of alignment with alcohol is.
• 12:06
  So here's the thing. I speak mostly to people who society would not deem an alcoholic. And I'm also speaking to those who know that their drinking habits, even though seemingly innocent, they know it's compromising areas of their life.
• 12:27
  It could be compromising their marriage. They're not present with their children. They've got some health challenges. They're not making as much money as they could be. And they know that this alcohol is the ball and chain around their ankle. So people who are inspired to do these 30-day challenges in the first place, mostly they're doing it because they realize that
• 12:50
  That alcohol is holding them back somehow. Doesn't mean they're an alcoholic. Doesn't mean they're waking up in a ditch. Doesn't mean they're getting arrested. It can be. But most of those people who are doing that are like, oh, man, I'm tired. I'm irritable. You know, I'm envious of people. I'm jealous. I'm kind of like, oh, I'm dragging my ass through the day. I know I'm operating at about a six out of ten.
• 13:14
  in my business. I'm not firing the person I know I should fire. I'm not hiring a person I should hire. I'm not progressing in my career. Tony Robbins says progress equals happiness. Most people who choose to go and take a break from alcohol realize they're not progressing in certain areas of their life. So.
• 13:31
  I would submit most people who begin these dry Januaries, sober October, dry July, they know there's something that they're stuck on and they've identified that alcohol at least is playing a significant role in that. I had a problem with the term alcoholic and I love how you…
• 13:52
  clearly define it right at the beginning of the book. It's, you know, I always tease, I say, I'm a drunk. I literally want to be called a drunk. Like I'd rather be a drunk than an alcoholic. I don't know what it was. I'd say I'm a drunk. Alcoholics go to meetings because that word stigmatized me. And then for the longest time, I'd like, you know what? I'd use the 12 steps. The first step, first admitting you're powerless over alcohol. I quit, just said, I'm done. I, uh, January 1st, 2019.
• 14:19
  But I did what you did. I'm going to take 90 days off. And then after 90 days, I said, I feel really good. I'm going to do another 90 days. And after that, I said, I'm going to drink on the 4th of July, which would have been 94 days, 93 days. And I got with a bunch of people and everybody was drinking and I couldn't pull the trigger. And I said, guys, I got to leave. I was driving a boat. I said, I got to leave.
• 14:42
  I said, I got to leave. And I got off the boat and I left and I went home and I smoked a cigar and got a non-alcoholic beer, which is what I want to ask you about a little later. And I just said, I'm done. I'm never going to drink again. For years, I was like, I wasn't an alcoholic because I just walked away. And then I did research on AA and the 12 steps. And I found the same research that you did that, and I'm not knocking AA and I know you won't because I know it saved a lot of people's lives.
• 15:10
  There are people that it has helped tremendously, but the overwhelming stats show that it's not as effective as what we're going to talk about in James's method. So do you want to add anything to that? First of all, congratulations, Kelly. Thanks for sharing your story about how you quit. Amazing. That puts you in the top 1% of the top 1% in the world because...
• 15:34
  Most people will never even attempt what you accomplished. So great job, Kelly. Thank you for that. I forgot to tell you the reason why I was going there. The main reason was that just the stigmatisms and the wording. And it was for me, I just said, you know what? I'm a very successful guy. I was making tons of money having it.
• 15:51
  I said, what can I accomplish without it? That's it. That was a simple question. So he flips it on his head. James flips this on his head and said, what can you accomplish without this? And that's what we're going to talk about. So if you're doing well with even just one or two drinks a week.
• 16:08
  Imagine what you could do with none. That's what we're going to talk about. So sorry. And thank you for the accolades. I'm so far removed. I haven't had somebody on here about alcohol in a year. And it used to be my whole social media. I've literally forgotten.
• 16:25
  who I was because I've become James, who I was trying to be when I drank. I am the life of the party. I am kind, engaging, and I am bigger than life. And I do that now completely sober. And that was the whole reason why I didn't want to stop drinking because I was the life of the party. Now I'm the life of the party and I can remember it. I don't have to apologize and I don't have to spend a single dollar
• 16:50
  having fun. So that's why I resonate with your message, because that's what you keep preaching over and over and over. Yeah, thank you, Kelly. I think most people mistakenly believe that if they become alcohol free, they quit drinking, that they're going to be dull, boring, that they have to lock themselves at home, throw away the key, that they have to retreat from society.
• 17:11
  The complete opposite I found to be true, which is when you're alcohol free, I run towards more social events, whether there's alcohol there or not. I don't retreat from alcohol fueled events. I run towards them, irrespective of if there's alcohol there or not. And I have the most fun. I remember in the late 2000s, before I quit drinking alcohol, I was living in Los Angeles, California, and I got invited to the Playboy Mansion. And I went there and I had alcohol.
• 17:39
  A great time. And I actually got thrown out because I had such a great time. I was drinking all the booze. I got drunk. I jumped in the grotto. I wasn't supposed to jump in the grotto. There was, who was there? Stone Cold Steve Austin, the wrestler, was there. There was Owen Wilson, the Hollywood celebrity. Pamela Anderson, I got a photo with her. There was a backstreet boy or someone from Endersink. I can't remember. Anyway, I got wildly drunk.
• 18:04
  Jumped in the grotto, got thrown out. Now, that was a fun story to share, admittedly. But the next day, I was so hungover. I was so tired. And yeah, it was cool. I was like, yeah, I got drunk at the Playboy Mansion. It was pretty funny.
• 18:17
  I quit drinking about three years later, and then I got invited back to the Playboy Mansion. This is now I've been probably eight, nine years alcohol free. Such a good story. I jumped onto the table, and I was dancing with these pretty models and girls and things like that. And I was having a wildly fun time. And this time I drank soda, water, ice, and a piece of lime.
• 18:39
  And I was just like partying and having the best time. And this time I was really taking it in. I was like, wow, I'm at the Playboy Mansion. There's Hugh Hefner. I'm dancing on tables. I'm taking it all in. And then I went home that night. I went to sleep and I woke up the next morning.
• 18:58
  And my experience of that Playboy Mansion trip was far superior to that when I was drunk and I got thrown out. Because I woke up refreshed and healthy and energy. And I was like, wow, I had all these great memories.
• 19:10
  And it dawned on me, I was like, well, I can have a superior time being alcohol-free than an alcohol-fueled time. And so that really cemented my lifestyle. By that stage, I had already been alcohol-free for some years. But it was just another piece of evidence to suggest that I can have the most fun being alcohol-free. James, I could end the conversation right now. That just made my day because I –
• 19:36
  I feel that way all the time. And then I wake up in the morning with such gratitude. You're like, dude, I was at the Playboy Mansion and I remember it and I didn't get asked to leave. That's the message that I want my listeners to understand. So the reason why we do that is dopamine. And you talk about dopamine and alcohol.
• 19:53
  So can you explain exactly how drinking affects our dopamine levels and why this matters? Because you're robbing. Because think of the dopamine that you just had from being at the Playboy Mansion. It was cool the first time. The dopamine levels the second time. Ooh, man, I could feel you having fun there because your smile went bigger and bigger. So talk about dopamine.
• 20:16
  Yeah, when you drink alcohol, your brain releases a big surge of dopamine and your motivation and your reward chemical kind of just fires. And that's why when you feel buzzed, relaxed,
• 20:29
  or even euphoric, that's what's going on with your dopamine levels, but it's artificial. Now, over time, the brain adapts by reducing natural dopamine production and responsiveness. So now you need more alcohol just to feel normal. And that's why people start chasing the high and they feel flat, anxious or unmotivated without it.
• 20:53
  When someone stops drinking, their dopamine system is often depleted and it takes time to reset, which is why people can feel irritable, bored or low early in their alcohol-free lifestyle. Essentially, that's the brain healing. Let me give you another example here. When we drink...
• 21:13
  our dopamine levels light up like the 4th of July. It's like fireworks, there's color, there's light. There's like, wow, this is incredible. But then over time, we need more of that alcohol to be able to get the same type of July 4th response. Over time, we're drinking alcohol and we might just get like a little firecracker going off in the backyard response. Yeah.
• 21:36
  But we keep chasing the 4th of July. And then over time, now we need more alcohol to get the same response that we were used to previously. And then, of course, that causes all types of problems. And then we're just stuck on this vicious cycle of chasing a new high. So it's really, really important to understand that.
• 22:00
  our dopamine levels are so easily influenced by alcohol and that in order to get them back to the natural state, we have to be alcohol-free for a considerable time. And then we can start getting dopamine release
• 22:16
  From healthier things, including exercise, appreciation, being connected with our children, being connected with our kids, with our loved ones. The simplest thing. Getting sunlight, eating grass-fed beef and wild-caught salmon as opposed to grass-fed beef and farm-raised salmon.
• 22:37
  Like just living a life of appreciation instead of expectation can release dopamine in our brains, which gives us this all around good feeling. And now we're not chasing this pleasure, this constant seeking of pleasure and then the crash and pleasure and then the crash. Like a heartbeat monitor in a hospital, for example, when we're drinking, we get this pleasure. But then the next day, crash. Beep. That's right.
• 23:06
  But what we really want is like compound interest where it's like this slow release of fulfillment and dopamine over time where we start to feel fulfilled and appreciative of our life instead of chasing this constant high all the time.
• 23:24
  You nailed it. The simplest things give me dopamine now that when I was drinking or even having one or two drinks, I didn't even notice. Like, just your pure handsomeness and that you're... I love this. The simplest... Life is so simple. Adding the alcohol makes it more difficult. It just did. And I had a lot of fun. I could tell you stories like you're... I'm probably not as good as going to the...
• 23:52
  Playboy Mansion, but similar. But just the simplest things, going for walks, appreciating the trees, things that I would have never even paid attention to. So I'm gonna ask a question. And I don't want this to sound like an attack, but it was one,
• 24:08
  question I had and I went down a rabbit hole and tried to research it and went through and tried to find your data behind it. But you clearly indicate or you saw a study that say AA has a five to 10% success rate, yet your program boasts the 98% success rate in just 90 days. Are these studies comparable in timeframe and why is your method so much more effective?
• 24:38
  and has a 5% long-term success rate. In fact, there was a book written by Dr. Lance Dodds out of Harvard University who wrote a book called The Sober Truth about 12, 15 years ago. And in that book, he cited AA as one of the worst success rates in all of medicine.
• 24:58
  Very critical of AA's actual success rate. Not critical of the mission. I love the mission of AA. It's helped millions of people. But statistically speaking, it hasn't helped 10 times as many people who've attempted it. Now, you asked about my program. We have a 90-day stop drinking process. It's called Project 90.
• 25:18
  The University of Washington conducted a scientific study on that program two years ago, and the results were a 98% reduction in drinking. So it wasn't a 98% success rate. It was a 98% reduction in drinking amongst the participants. Now, we can't compare AA to Project 90. It's not apples for apples. It is apples to oranges. It's slightly different. Thank you. Because AA is free. Okay. Okay.
• 25:46
  And my program, there's a price to it, right? You pay for admission. And so already trying to do a scientific study or comparison between something that's free and something that's paid, now you're running into some challenges, right? Yeah.
• 26:02
  The other thing is that our 98% success rate was based over 90 days, whereas the AA success rate of 5% is based over at least one year. Okay, so it's slightly different. Having said that, an addictions expert out of Cambridge University, his name is Professor David Bell, and he's one of the world's leading addiction experts.
• 26:22
  He got a hold of the study results of our Project 90 program, the 98% reduction, and he described that as groundbreaking. In fact, he said that was probably one of the best success rates that he had seen of all addiction studies. Now, the question then comes up, well, why? What is it that you're doing differently? Here's my response to that. AA is a community community.
• 26:49
  Project 90 is a like-minded community. So AA, you could be going there as a 40-year-old, 50-year-old, educated, affluent, successful person, and you're sitting next to a 19-year-old meth addict who's holding up gas stations.
• 27:06
  You might be sitting next to someone there who's the court has said, you have to go to AA. They're court mandated. And you're listening to stories that you just can't relate to. I mean, you're a well-educated, articulate person. And now you're sitting next to someone who's maybe not as educated, holding up gas stations, talking about going to nightclubs and getting drunk. There's no relatability there. So you're not motivated to want to attend. Of course, you want the best for everyone there because you're a good person, but you're not really motivated to go there.
• 27:35
  In Project 90, we curate a like-minded community of folks who are mostly over the age of 35. The average age is in their 50s. Folks in their 40s, 50s, 60s, early 70s. Well-educated, articulate. They know that they're not an alcoholic.
• 27:51
  but they're drinking too much and they know that that's compromising their life. We curate that community. And so now because you go, oh, I can relate to that person. I can relate to that person's story. You're actually eagerly listening to other people share their stories because you can relate to it. Now there's that built-in motivation to stay accountable, to stay engaged.
• 28:13
  And to keep participating, even when it might get slightly challenging. The other main difference, Kelly, between AA and Project 90 is in AA, you are surrendering to a higher power. You have to say you are powerless over this disease. You are saying, hi, my name's John, and I'm an alcoholic. I say BS to that.
• 28:39
  And that's me being polite. Okay? I say BS to that. You are not powerless. You are powerful. You don't surrender to a higher power. You are empowered in your life.
• 28:54
  We're not doing a 12-step program where we're making amends and blah, blah, blah. We are focusing on what we are going to create in this life, the people we're going to serve, including ourselves. In AA, you're lamenting the past. In Project 90, you are focused on what you get to create in this life. We use neuroscience. AA uses faith, right? Surrendering to this higher power.
• 29:21
  We bring in neuroscience. We bring in the world's leading neuroscientists who really understand human behavior. And we look at things like how the dopamine levels are affected when you're drinking alcohol. We look at the verbiage that we use in our life. Instead of saying, I need to quit. I have to stop. We instead say, I get to be alcohol free. I get to drink soda water, ice and a piece of lime. I'm choosing this.
• 29:45
  It may seem like semantics, these little word differences, these little language differences, but they're so powerful in driving human behavior if we can come up with empowering words as opposed to disempowering words. So that's how I might explain the difference between AA and Project 90. I'm not claiming that we have a 98% success rate compared to AA's, which has a 5% success rate.
• 30:07
  I'm just saying what the University of Washington scientific study showed, which is a 98% reduction in drinking if you follow this neuroscience powerful process. If you're powerless, and some people are, if you're powerless of alcohol, go to AA.
• 30:23
  It literally, that's it. And defining, labeling that you're an alcoholic. I don't like, I don't like it. If you are powerless and you know if you're powerless, if you can't go a day without drinking, you probably are powerless. But I like what you just said. You said, BS, you are not powerless. You are powerful. But if you...
• 30:43
  Literally are, this is the high achiever. This is someone who wants to grow higher. They're not powerless. That's what I would have said after reading your book and I've studied AA, I've been to AA. I only go when someone asks me to help them. So, and with someone near and dear to my heart, but it's not my thing. It's just not my thing. I am not a big AA component, but I know I'm very grateful for it because I have very dear friends that had saved their lives. So again, it's not a knock, but if you want to,
• 31:12
  This is where I'm going. Said all that to say this, people. I haven't asked James how much this program is because it's irrelevant to me. Because if you even have to ask, you're not serious about leveling up, about going to the next level. I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on coaches. This is worth it. Because I tell you what, whatever you're spending on alcohol, this will cover it. He'll save you the money.
• 31:36
  spend the money on coaching people, whether it's for alcohol, whether it's for mental fitness, which is my big thing. This is the best money you will ever spend at all. Please add in on that because I did my barbaric version. I want you to give your beautiful Australian version. Thank you. When you pay, you pay attention.
• 31:58
  No Olympic gold medalist ever won a gold medal at the Olympics without a coach. So I invest in coaching as well. I spend a lot of money on coaching. I need people to show me what I don't see, to identify my blind spots, to hold me accountable.
• 32:16
  I want to be in a like-minded community. There's a great book called The Power of Habit by Charles C. Duhigg. And in that book, he says people really make change when they are in a like-minded community with a common goal. Not a community, a like-minded community. So I absolutely invest in getting around fellow high achievers who are committed to growth and personal development. The other thing I would say is that coaching –
• 32:45
  Has absolutely transformed my life. I have a beautiful wife and she and I, every two weeks, have a relationship coach for 75 minutes. He is a marriage counselor. He's a relationship coach. And we have that recurring two weeks meeting where we consult with him.
• 33:05
  And thankfully, 75% of the time, we're talking about how we can make our relationship even better. And 25% of the time, we're dealing with things that are coming up, which are problematic and causing tension and little resentments. And those 25% of the cause feels really uncomfortable for both of us at times. And we have to reveal truths and we have to share resentments and it's challenging and it's tough. But I tell you what, doing that,
• 33:34
  has created so much bliss in our relationship ultimately because it helps us get through our resistance. Because a coach helps us to share what ordinarily we might withhold, which might then fester as resentment for years and which holds as many other couples
• 33:54
  to divorce or cheat or have volatile toxic relationships. So nothing for me has been more profound than having ongoing accountability from coaching. And I just figured if Michael Jordan, who's generally regarded as one of the best, if not the best athletes of all time, had multiple coaches, um,
• 34:15
  He had not just Phil Jackson, his actual team coach, but then also had Tim Grover, who was his mindset and gym coach. He had another mindset coach. He had a nutrition coach. He had all of these coaches. I'm like, well, you know what? If that's what excellence is,
• 34:33
  then I'm just going to follow that. And so I have a relationship coach. I have a personal trainer. I have a CEO coach who helps me to become best CEO I can be. I have a leadership coach. I've done personal development like landmark education, which has been profound. I'm in a cut right now where I'm actually deliberately cutting visceral body fat. I have a coach.
• 34:55
  who I check in with once a week, who looks at my macros and I put my food into my fitness pal and he comes in and looks at it. And then we talk about it once a week. But nothing's been more profound than getting a series of coaches and a board of advisors to help me in my life.
• 35:12
  Beautiful. You're wise beyond your looks, bad everything. I was just saying, you look thin. You look thinner than normal. I just did a fast that dropped me 10 pounds. Crazy. It's amazing how we get to be in this chair and I get to meet some people that just – if one thing you take away and you want to –
• 35:31
  One thing from this podcast is hire a coach and at least look at your drinkers. So let's talk about a couple of things. What's the clear perspective on NA drinks? Like I drink Heineken Zero or Budweiser Zero once in a blue moon. If I'm in a big supercharged drinking scenario, I will have one of those. But I've heard people go, there's still a little bit of alcohol. I'm like –
• 35:59
  I don't care. What's your stance on that? Yeah, my stance is if you are trying to quit drinking, I would refrain from drinking non-alcoholic alternatives until you've got to at least 90 consecutive days alcohol free. I say that because we don't want to keep the association because let's just say –
• 36:20
  You quit drinking and then you're out and you say, Hey, have you got any Heineken zeros? And they say, yeah, we've got a Heineken zero. And then you start drinking Heineken zeros. Well, what happens if you then go out to a restaurant and you say, Hey, do you have any Heineken zeros? I say, no. And you go, Oh, do you have any alcohol-free beers? No. Now you've grown accustomed to those alcohol-free beers. And so the temptation might be to say, yeah, all right, give me a full strength, give me a Heineken. And now you're back on that train of drinking again.
• 36:47
  So I always say to our clients who join us in the 90-day program, refrain from drinking alcohol-free alternatives just for these 90 days that you're with us. Let us help you rewire your mindset around alcohol. Once you've got to day 90,
• 37:02
  which is then the point where most people have successfully got power over their drinking. At that point, sure thing, drink a Heineken Zero. You get some mocktails, like drink some Budweiser Zero, because by that stage, you've broken the association. You don't need alcohol anymore.
• 37:20
  in order to socialize or relieve your stress and anxiety. At that stage, no problems at all. I don't have any problems with that. I've drunk Heineken Zeros. I've drunk a Budweiser Zero, but I didn't do it until I was 13 years alcohol free. It's only two years ago that I started trying it out. Candidly, I'm an investor in an alcohol free company called Groovy, G-R-U-V-I. They're out of Denver, Colorado. Their website's getgroovy.com.
• 37:46
  They do great award-winning alcohol-free beers and wines. And I always say to my community of folks, check it out. Try them. Absolutely. But only after you've gone 90 consecutive days alcohol-free first and you've broken that association with alcohol in general.
• 38:04
  James, did you know that the US takes in $20 billion in taxes from alcohol and cannabis yearly? This is last year stats, by the way, because I looked this up for the last one. $20 billion in taxes. Just the taxes. That's incredible. I didn't know it was that exact figure. I'm typing it into the internet as we speak in the background. Yeah.
• 38:28
  It's $12 billion in alcohol and $8 billion. This was last year's numbers for cannabis, which is my next question. What's your take on the California sober? Marijuana, cannabis is certainly going to be, let's say, how do I word this, Kelly? Bluntly. Let me choose my words carefully here. All the hard-of-life people don't understand how we talk. We talk blunt.
• 38:57
  Look, listen, that is a natural substance, let's just say. However, like any natural substance or any non-natural substance, if you become too reliant on it, it can cause problems. Now, if the question is, hey, what's worse for you, alcohol or smoking a little bit of weed, I will 100 times out of 100 say it's alcohol. Like alcohol is just purely just toxin, just poison for you.
• 39:25
  And again, there's nuances to this argument, right? Because it depends on how much weed you're actually smoking. If you're having like on occasion and it's not compromising your life, okay, I got no problems with that. I can even say to you that if you have a drink on occasion and it's not compromising your life,
• 39:46
  Okay, no problems. I'm not going to argue with that. But I want to just invite your listener or viewer to really ponder is, are you persuading yourself that just a little one here, a little bit here is actually harmless?
• 39:59
  Or is it actually harmful? Because even one seemingly innocent drink a day has been shown to cause some level of grey and white matter degeneration in the brain. There was a study out of the UK in 2022 which showed one drink a night. Just seven standard drinks a week was enough to destroy that...
• 40:19
  matter in the brain in other words some level of brain degeneration and yet we're all walking around convinced or trying to convince ourselves that one night a day is good for the heart hey how about that study that showed that i mean that has debunked so many times now over the years it's ridiculous so look i'm not as knowledgeable to speak about weed marijuana and all those kind of things kelly but look i would just say proceed
• 40:45
  cautiously tread carefully because you might get into a stage where you're now like convincing yourself that because it's a natural substance and you're smoking it it's fine but if like anything if you do too much of it it can compromise areas of your life
• 40:59
  Yeah, I'm a big – I just wanted to know because I want to get to know you. And the more I get to know you, we're very like-minded. I'd say feeling is healing. And if you're smoking it, you're probably running from some sort of feeling that could lead you into drinking because that's what I was doing. I was running from my feelings that weren't even true, which is –
• 41:22
  I don't want to get into all that. I mean, false fear, false evidence appearing real. I, you know, I thought that I wasn't lovable and that I wasn't good enough. So when I drank, I, everybody loved me and I was plenty good enough. Cause I was Superman and that's all bullshit, literal bullshit. And, and,
• 41:39
  As soon as I leaned into it, I realized I don't need the drinking. So I don't need any of those drugs, anything. I don't take Xanax. I would freak out now because the false part about drinking is you think you're in control and you're not. You're just have taken – you've pulled down your walls and your inhibitions that give you the illusion of control. And now when you're clear-minded, you actually do have control. So if I had one drink –
• 42:09
  I would probably panic. I'm so used to not drinking and I literally look at people who are,
• 42:15
  having a good time and letting loose. And I go, oh, they're going to feel that tomorrow because I remember it. And as a matter of fact, this is a perfect time because we're going to get into social drinking. That's the number one thing I get all the time. But I loved at the very end of your book how it said this, can I drink on special occasions? And you said, why is alcohol worthy of a special occasion? Expand on that and why reframing it was so powerful.
• 42:45
  Why are we walking around considering alcohol worthy of being referred to as a special occasion? So good. I'll only drink on special occasions. As if drinking attractively packaged poison is worthy of being referred to as a special occasion. I submit the special occasion is every single day that you choose to be alcohol free and you have joy, clarity, focus, energy. You're connected with your kids. You're...
• 43:12
  mobile, you're eating well, you're living a life of appreciation instead of expectation. That is the special occasion and you get to live it 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
• 43:23
  Every day. And yet we have it the other way around, which is, oh, I get to drink poison. Oh, yes. It's a special occasion. Let me drink some poison and compromise my sleep and create some irritability and some unwanted body weight and increase my blood pressure and create more disconnection from my children and create some marital strain.
• 43:46
  and mess up my gains in the gym and slow down my metabolism and carry 10 pounds of unwanted body fat. Yes. Oh, yes. I'll get to have that. It's ridiculous. And I understand it because cultural conditioning has us believe that when we put this poison in a fancy bottle and then we dress up and we smile as we offer it to someone, it is a special occasion.
• 44:13
  And there are smiling assassins everywhere. And a smiling assassin is the waiter or the waitress who greets you at the bar. Hello, sir. Hello, man. Can I get you started with a glass of wine? Can I get you something from our drinks list? They're essentially saying, hello, sir. Hello, ma'am. Can I get you started with a glass of 10 pounds of unwanted body fat? Hello. Can I get you started with a glass of regret and shame in the morning? Hey, can I get you?
• 44:35
  Terrible. It's terrible. Some irritability and some frustration. That's essentially what they're inviting you to do when they're offering you their attractively packaged poison. So the special occasion is every day you choose to be alcohol free and live life with health, wealth, love, and happiness. What did I read? 80% of murders, they're under the influence of drugs or alcohol. 80%.
• 44:59
  So it's insanity. It's insanity. It is insanity. The amount of money that I, but it wasn't even the money that I'd spent on alcohol with the alcohol related activities. Oh, let's book a trip to Vegas. That sounds brilliant. Oh, let's go here. Let's do this. Let's go to this concert. Let's go to front row. Let's talk about the big one that we hear all the time.
• 45:19
  and it's social drinking. What do you tell someone who insists they only drink socially? I say, be social, be even more social while being alcohol-free. Stop relying on alcohol as a crutch to engage in society and start embodying an alcohol-free lifestyle and lean into society more. A lot of people are,
• 45:50
  leaning on this attractively packaged poison and coming up with this excuse, like, oh, I just needed to calm my nerves. Oh, but I need to be able to relax and have fun. No, you don't. You just get to...
• 46:05
  calm your nerves and you just get to have fun. And you can do that 1 million in one different ways that don't involve drinking poison. It's just that's the only thing that you've known. That's the only thing you've been accustomed to. You know the most ridiculous thing I see, Kelly? Maybe you'll agree. Do tell us, James. You ever been around with a group of friends and someone says, let's grab a photo, let's get a group photo. And then people start to get together. And then someone says, oh, hang on a second, just going to grab my drink.
• 46:32
  And they go and grab their drink to make sure that it's in the photo. And so they'll stand there holding their champagne or their beer or their wine as a prop. As if to say to the viewer of this photograph, this is the good life.
• 46:51
  Holding this poison is symbolizing me living the good life. And they've got this big smile on their face. And they're holding this prop. And they're smiling by the sunset. And we've all done it, Kelly. We've all done it. I know you did it. I did it. We've all done it before. This ridiculous notion that in order to symbolize we are living our best life, we have to hold a glass of attractively packaged poison
• 47:17
  as a crutch and show it to the viewer of this photograph or show it to our friends. It is just preposterous. It is just preposterous. And I am not impressed. In fact, I'm unimpressed by all of these photos on social media where people are like, cheers, cheers. And they're holding this prop and I get it. And I'm not here to be critical anymore.
• 47:41
  I get it. It's the cultural conditioning. We've been hypnotized. And I'm here to de-hypnotize you. How about you just create romance without the wine? How about you enjoy the sunset without the poison? How about you just enjoy being together and having these amazing times and bonding and watching the Super Bowl and walking on the beach and having a sunset romantic dinner without having to nurse a beer or a wine or a gin or a vodka or whatever else you drink?
• 48:11
  So it's funny, James, you say that. And honestly, between you and the fence post, most of the time when I got in a picture, I usually always put my drink down because I was I like to party. And it was one of my friends called me when my fraternity brothers called me, as a matter of fact, early on in my business career. And he said, Kelly, can I give you some advice? He's in marketing. He said, you have a big following. You post all the time on social media. If you look at you, you look like you're like you're a drunk.
• 48:38
  He's like, if that's what you're trying to do, then keep doing it. And I was like, I don't really care. And that was the alcohol speaking. But looking back, I would always put my drink down so I wouldn't think, but everybody knew I was drinking. So it's funny because not to, I'm gonna talk about Bill Cosby, but I'm gonna talk about his, not his drugging of people, but I'm talking about his standup comedy where he did that, where he didn't swear one time and he talked about, it was Bill Cosby himself
• 49:07
  before he was all this crazy, terrible stuff that came out. But he did a skit on drinking and having a good time. And he goes through the whole night and then ends it up with puking. He goes, that's what they call having a good time. So when I see, I just saw one of my dear friends, and I don't wanna say anybody's names, but he's on his boat.
• 49:30
  very successful, winning at life, beautiful family, all the money he could ever want. And he's surrounded by a bunch of people and everybody's drinking and they decide to record him opening up a very expensive champagne bottle and they're celebrating. And I went immediate to like, oh my God, I feel sorry for you guys. You're on a beautiful boat. You're with your beautiful friends and your family.
• 49:54
  and you're popping a champagne bottle, and it was a very expensive bottle of champagne, and I'm like, and you think that's winning. You've already won. Now you just took a step down. And that's the only part about this transformation that I make, because I can't unsee things. I can't unfeel things. I don't care what you do, but if I love you, I feel you.
• 50:21
  feel you like when you were talking about being at the playboy mansion a second time i could feel you i could feel your energy through the computer and i know because you smiled ear to ear and i could see you're thin and for me i had blotchy skin so i hated taking pictures now let's go i want pictures
• 50:38
  I want to have fun. It's simple. Life is easy. We're wrapping up, but I want to get to that. You've coached thousands. And what's the most surprising benefit your clients report after becoming alcohol-free? I'll give you a few. Let me talk to the entrepreneur who might be listening here who wants to make more money or to be more financially successful.
• 51:01
  I often ask my clients when they first start, how would you describe your productivity or your success in your business on a scale of one to 10? And most of the time they'll say either a five or a six because they're drinking. They're tired, they're irritable, they're poorly slept, they're making poor decisions, they're not firing some of them, they're hiring someone. Now let's use an example. An entrepreneur generates $1 million in revenue each year. Feels like a six out of 10 because of their drinking.
• 51:30
  Then I say to the entrepreneur, now I want you to imagine that you've been several months alcohol free. You've got clarity, focus, energy. You're sleeping well. You're less irritable. You hire someone. You fire someone. You make a few extra calls. You make better calls. You increase your profit margins. You've just got clarity and strategy.
• 51:47
  How would you feel then? And they say, oh, I'd feel like an eight or a nine out of 10. I said, great. How much money do you think you might generate in your business if you were feeling like an eight or a nine out of 10? And they'll often tell me one of two things. I'll either say, oh, maybe I'll make half more or double. I go, okay, well, let's do the more conservative option there. Half a million dollars. Your drinking habits are costing you half a million dollars a year. And then there's this silence.
• 52:15
  It's like the penny dropped. Sobering. And they go, wow. I thought I was spending, you know, five, six, $7,000 a year only. And I'm realizing that my drinking habits have been costing me half a million dollars a year. And I said, yes. So I'm not as much interested in how much money you spend on alcohol as I am on how much money you don't make because of alcohol. Now, here's where it gets interesting, Kelly. If I go to my calculator right now.
• 52:43
  on my phone and we type in $500,000 divided by 365 days of the year. Every day that that entrepreneur decides to drink is costing him $1,369.
• 52:57
  And if that entrepreneur says, oh, I only drink two drinks a day. I go, okay, well, let's divide it by two. Every drink that you choose to have is costing you $684.93. Now, an entrepreneur will appreciate that because they understand, you know, revenue and profit margins. $684 a drink. Drink.
• 53:18
  In that scenario is what it's costing that entrepreneur. Now, someone who's not even an entrepreneur, someone who's an executive or a high achiever, they've got a job and they're in a sales job where they've got commission. If you're operating at a six out of 10 and you're on commission, you might make 150 grand a year, which is great. Good job. But imagine how much you'd make if you were really on top of your game with clarity and focus.
• 53:43
  Even if you increased your commission or your sales by like 20%, that could mean another 50 grand a year in income at least. So your drinking habits in that scenario are costing you $50,000 a year. And if we go 50,000 divided by 365 days of the year, you're paying a $136 dumb tax every day that you choose to drink. Wow. That is a brilliant way of thinking it. Because when we're attacking,
• 54:13
  What you measure gets better. So you're attaching a number with it. That's absolutely brilliant, James. I want to talk about the neuroscience a little bit because you led on to it, but we've been just bouncing all over the place. Before I go there, sorry for the craziness. I want to say this is the number one thing that I receive. Like attracts like. If you're drinking and partying, you're going to attract drinking and partying. And I'm not to label that. But.
• 54:36
  I call it no honor amongst thieves. If you're both drinking like that, there's a lot less honesty. There's a lot less real intimate belief and growth. But when you're sober, when you don't, when you haven't lived an alcohol-free lifestyle, so as I correct myself, you connect with people like I'm connecting with James. And before we hit record,
• 55:01
  We talked about meeting up in Miami. So you connect on a deeper level, on a true, authentic, genuine level. So my relationships are better. And the best part about it is the relationships that aren't for you fall off. So you can talk about money all you want. Success has helped.
• 55:22
  And by getting rid of, by pruning off some of the people that are never going to change, you make more money. So his number is great. I say double it because you prune off people. And then you get in rooms of people like James and you meet bigger people. And you just opportunities are limitless. All because we're just living an alcohol-free lifestyle.
• 55:45
  That's it. So I wanted to get on that thing. So let's go into the neuroscience. What does the neuroscience say about the long-term impact of alcohol on the brain, particularly on a memory and the cognition? Because we just glossed over that. Let's talk about that because our friend Jordan Montgomery, who's his buddy, Andrew Huberman, they had a study about this. So let's talk about that.
• 56:04
  Yeah, well, I referenced a study earlier, the 2020 study out of the UK of 36,000 middle-aged adults, which showed one drink a day is enough to compromise the gray and white matter in the brain. Alcohol is also a carcinogenic, so it's been linked to seven different cancers, including liver and throat, heart disease as well. I didn't know that, by the way. A year ago, I found that out.
• 56:30
  Yeah. I didn't know that. Cancer. Yeah. Crazy. Breast cancer. It also, for men, lowers testosterone levels, creates libido issues in the bedroom. Anecdotally, even if we're not looking at the science, anecdotally, you know that when you drink the next morning when you wake up, you're a little foggy. Yeah.
• 56:52
  By the way, full disclosure, and I've never said this. You know, for there was probably a 15-year run, I had never been sick, but I had called in. You know what it was from? Drinking. I've never been sick.
• 57:06
  Only induced, alcohol-induced sickness. I've never admitted that to anybody. I just said I would be less than or out too late or had too much and just dizzy or foggy. I just couldn't mutter two sentences. Never sick. 15 years plus. Only time I ever didn't show up for work was, and I'd say I was sick.
• 57:28
  was because I'd had too much alcohol. It's such a waste of time, guys. It's a waste. I'm sorry to cut you off. I kept forgetting to say that because I wanted to be full, vulnerable, and authentic and transparent with my listeners. I appreciate you sharing that. I can also share anecdotally, my mother's husband is 83. Very nice man.
• 57:52
  He is now experiencing dementia and my mother just made the painful decision to put him in a home, a care home, because his cognitive decline has increased at such a rate that that's just a necessary thing to do. Anecdotally, I saw him drink modestly all the years that I've known him. And I know that before I met him.
• 58:16
  He drank modestly every day of his life from when he left high school, age 17, right up until my mom started, you know, preventing him from drinking anymore because of the cognitive decline. So you look at that, that's a 65 year drinking career.
• 58:35
  And I am convinced, I can't prove it obviously, but I'm convinced that his drinking habits over 65 years sped up the cognitive decline and contributed to the dementia. I can't say definitively, but I'm just, you know, based on my understanding of what a lifetime of drinking does to the brain, I'm convinced.
• 58:56
  I'll just share one other interesting thing. We had a client whose name is Evan Melcher. He's a financial services manager out of Atlanta, Georgia. He's about 50 years old. He joined us four years ago in our Project 90 program, and he was tracking his heart rate with an aura ring. I'm wearing an aura ring here now. And then he tracked his heart rate with the aura ring during the 90 days that he stopped drinking and then the ensuing nine months after that for the next year. He said to me, James,
• 59:26
  quitting drinking over the course of one year saved me five million heartbeats. And I said, what do you mean? He said, well, when I was drinking, my heartbeat was something like this. And when I stopped drinking, it returned to its natural rhythm, which was more like
• 59:44
  And he said over the course of a year, 5 million heartbeat difference. Oh, like wow. That is incredible. And by the way, when he joined us in project 90, he was on five different medications, including sleep medication, anxiety, high blood pressure, acid reflux, and something else, which I don't recall.
• 1:00:04
  By month four, he was off all of those medications. And he's now prescription medication free, has a great life. He actually was able to save his son from drowning in a pool. And he says that if he had been drinking like he ordinarily would have, he wouldn't have had the...
• 1:00:21
  cognitive awareness to be able to even be aware that his son was drowning, let alone pull him out of the pool, perform CPR and get him to the hospital and save his life. And he, he credits being alcohol free to literally saving his son's life. So these are some of the health issues.
• 1:00:39
  problems that you get from drinking. And these are some of the health benefits you get from not drinking. And in Evan's case, at least you can certainly save your child's life by just having that awareness and clarity from being alcohol free. The name of my book is Clear. Get clear. Because when you do, life can just be profoundly better.
• 1:01:00
  I remember when I used to have a couple of cocktails and I'd be sitting around the pool watching my daughter and I'm like, and I'm pretty buzzed. If, if something happened, I couldn't drive her to the hospital. And I, it just, I remember how it all started to, you just, it just, I don't know where, how you're bringing all this memory back to me, but I remember the reason when I, when my drinking took a different turn, a turn towards the worst was I couldn't sleep.
• 1:01:25
  And I got advice from somebody who's just, hey, have a shot of whiskey. And I would go down into my bar and I'd have a shot of whiskey. And it would put me to sleep, but it would like knock me out, not fall me. And that's when I become reliant on it. If I knew then what I knew now, I would have just started a meditation practice or journaling.
• 1:01:46
  it was just my mind going and trying to solve something that I could have used just, just with a journal. Instead, I went on years and years and years. So guys get clear. Whether you think you have an issue or not, this was a quick and easy read. I read it in like four days. Cites a lot of great things. I really appreciate you being here. I'm going to get you out of here with one more question. It's, it's about your legacy.
• 1:02:10
  What lasting impact do you hope Clear has on conversation around alcohol and high performance? We've touched on everything, but specifically the one thing that you want the legacy to be from Clear. I'd like everyone who reads the book Clear to reposition alcohol in their life. You don't need to quit drinking entirely. Yeah.
• 1:02:37
  Everyone has free will. They can make their own decision. But if you, at the very least, reduce...
• 1:02:45
  and reposition alcohol in your life as something that is no longer necessary, but maybe it's just a choice and you're even just asking that question, then I will feel like I've supported society in a way that is profound because I don't know of too many other ways to create generational impact in someone's life than helping them get off drugs, including alcohol. I don't think the president...
• 1:03:12
  can create that much impact. I don't think a fireman or a police officer or a judge can create that much positive generational impact in a family life than helping someone reduce or eliminate drugs, including alcohol. So I want my legacy to be just...
• 1:03:34
  Increased awareness, help people make their own choices. And if that shows up in reduction or elimination, I think society is going to be much better.
• 1:03:45
  How does somebody reach out to you and sign up for the program? Alcoholfreelifestyle.com is where you'll find everything to do with our Project 90 program. You can get the book. If you want to get the book, you can go to alcoholfreelifestyle.com. It's also available online wherever books are sold. Most people get it off Amazon. There's also an audio book.
• 1:04:08
  It's an eight hour audio book of me reading, reading the book. You can put me on two speed if you like and get it done in four hours. But yeah, you can go to alcoholfreelifestyle.com slash clear. I have a podcast, which is called Alcohol Free Lifestyle. And then I'm on Instagram as well, where I put out a lot of free videos and tips and tricks, which is just my name at James Swanwick.
• 1:04:30
  I'm not going to have to tell anybody to share this. This has been great. Again, we're not trying to tell people to quit. We're not trying to tell people you have a problem. Just saying that this worked well for us. Since I made this decision on all of a big brand, we have a top podcast. I've doubled my income at, at my it cybersecurity company. Guys, this stuff is not good for you. Being alcohol free is, and it's, it's so good. And I just want to reiterate what James said. And,
• 1:04:59
  It's just, if there's anything I can ever show you is I model it every single day. I'm in the best shape of my life. I'm pouring in all you guys. I'm making amazing friends like James and other people that I bring to you. And life is really amazing. So give it a shot. Thanks for tuning in. Please share this. And until next week, be harder than life.
• 1:05:20
  Please rate and share this podcast. I'm active on all social platforms and love to hear from my Segal supporters. Each and every episode is sponsored by my company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day, even simplifying cybersecurity. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life.