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Behind the Scenes of My New Book "18 Words to Live By" · The Daily Writer

• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Hey my friend, welcome to today's episode of The Daily Writer.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Today I've got something a little different for you, and instead of a guest interview that I typically do on Saturdays, I'm actually turning the tables and I'm having somebody interview me instead.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: I am thrilled to bring you this conversation with my good friend and fellow author MJ James.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: MJ is a member of our Daily Writer community, and she has built an amazing upcoming podcast and a website called The Burned Out Business Mom.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now you probably heard MJ featured on an episode of the Daily Rider podcast a few weeks ago when I interviewed her about this whole issue of burnout.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: That was an amazing interview, and I've gotten a ton of really great feedback on what MJ shared in that episode.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: So if you haven't yet listened to that, make sure and go back and check that out because she shares a lot of good tips for anybody who's feeling burned out.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: And let's be honest, all of us feel burned out some of the time.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: So on this episode, however, we're kind of flipping the script a little bit, and she interviews me about my new book, 18 Words to Live By, A Father's Wisdom on What Matters Most.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: And as you may know, I wrote this book as a gift to my son for his 18th birthday, which happened this past month in April.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: 18 Words to Live By is a short, fast read that covers 18 values to guide your life.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I've got to tell you, this is the favorite thing of mine that I have ever written.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I really tried to pour my heart and my soul into this book.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: And in the book, I share some very personal stories that I hope will be inspiring to anybody who's looking for a short, simple book that is a handbook for life.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Now I also want to mention to you that, and I'm again, I'm you know me, if you listen to this podcast on any kind of a regular basis, you know that my life is basically an open book.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: I just kind of tell you what's happening, and I'm just kind of brutally honest about my life, at least as much as I can be.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: And to be honest with you, I did not expect this book to be as successful as it has been.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: I just kind of did this book as a gift for my son, hoping that other people might like it too.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: But to my pleasant surprise, uh people have really responded to this book.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: This is by far the best response to anything that I've ever written.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh people seem to really, really love this book.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so much so that people are telling me, hey, I'm buying multiple copies for friends of mine and giving them away, which is a really cool sign.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just so extremely grateful.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, for the opportunity to put this book out into the world, but number two, I'm so grateful that people like the book and I'm grateful for their support.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that's all to say that I hope you enjoyed this conversation where MJ and I dive into the behind-the-scenes story of how I created this book.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: We talk about the process of how it was written, the story behind the book, and the themes of many of the chapters.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: I really, really enjoy chatting with MJ because she's a great interviewer and she asks great questions.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: So make sure and subscribe to her podcast.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: There is kind of an intro episode that I will I'll link to her podcast here in the show notes.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's an intro episode up there now, but by the time you listen to this, um, or soon thereafter, there uh probably will be some others that are upcoming very soon.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: So make sure and check that out.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: It'll be really great.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, with all that said, here is my conversation with the amazing MJ James talking about my new book, 18 Words to Live By.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Hope you enjoy this.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: MJ, this is a little different because normally this is the part of the podcast where I go, hey so-and-so, welcome to the show.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's great to have you on here.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess that's still the case today, except the tables are turned and you're actually interviewing me.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks for being here and thanks for letting me turn the tables a little bit.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's my pleasure for sure.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm super excited to discuss everything happening with this book.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Really excited.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate that.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: That does mean a lot.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: So why don't you tell us a little bit about your new book, Kent Sanders?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um, so this book came about.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it sounds a little, I guess, dramatic isn't the right word.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's it sounds like this wouldn't actually be true, like I'm making this up, but this really is not uh the case.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: This is totally how this book came about.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is last summer, uh, so we're recording this in May of 2022.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: My son turned 18 last month in April, on April 11th.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it was either his birthday last year or sometime last summer.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking, you know, he's gonna be 18 next year.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: What is something cool I could do for for my son Ben's 18th birthday?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not really like a really creative gift giver.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my wife would tell you that off the bat, probably.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: I tend to get the same kinds of gifts and that sort of thing.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: And my mind just turned to, well, why don't you write him a book?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, well, okay, what kind of a book would that be?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And the more I thought about it, I just thought, why don't I try to put down some of the lessons that I thought I would want to have learned at 18 years old if I could go back in time?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so I thought about it and thought about it and thought about it, and and the phrase 18 words to live by just popped into my head.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know how sometimes things just pop into your head out of nowhere?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's how this happened.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I just I thought of this this phrase 18 words to live by, and I thought, well, that'll be the structure for the book.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'll make it short and sweet.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of where the book came from.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love that so much.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it really is short and sweet.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like everything is so um easy to read through, and you end every chapter in such an uplifting, upbeat way.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think you did a phenomenal job putting this together and also for an 18-year-old, like it's completely appropriate for adults to read, it's completely appropriate for your 18-year-old to read.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think you did a really, really great job.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: My whole family enjoyed reading this book.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: I really do.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk a little bit, you know, about some of the chapters in detail.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um I thought it was fantastic when you were talking about naming your fears.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And specifically in the part where you are at the um networking events.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you say, I did what every self-respecting business person does when feeling socially awkward.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I hid in the bathroom.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I could not stop laughing because I was like, oh, I've totally done that.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: My son was like, You've done that.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Well, I kind of did that in school, you know.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we had like a whole family conversation off of just that one line in chapter two.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So tell how did you even remember that story when you were piecing this all together with fear?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like out of all the stories you had, why was that the story you chose?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: So the way that I build these chapters is uh obviously I have a so I'll give you a little bit behind-the-scenes glimpse about at least how I how I build this kind of a thing.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I have what I want to talk about in each chapter, I have some type of theme or topic or subject.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then I just brainstorm stories that I might use in that chapter.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: And for whatever reason, that was one of the stories that came to mind.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: It might have been something that I wrote in a blog post at some point or something I don't really recall, but that was one of the stories that I considered using because number one, uh it was true, you know, it was a true story.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Number two, I felt like people could relate to it.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: And number three, it's kind of self-deprecating.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm a very self-deprecating person.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: It does not come from a place of not lacking confidence or being down on myself.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: It comes from a place of I just kind of have the philosophy of life that I'm gonna make fun of myself before other people do.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we could all make fun of ourselves, and I don't take myself that seriously, you know, as a human.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm basically a middle-aged guy with thinning hair.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: I need to lose a few pounds.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody's gonna be impressed when I walk into a room.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I just kind of accept that about myself.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I will always be the first to tell an embarrassing story about myself because I think people relate to that.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Even even those, even in those times where we project the sense of self-confidence, uh, I think all of us we're hyper aware of all of our screw-ups and mistakes and and shortcomings and our idiosyncrasies.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I just like to talk about those um in my writing, just because I think people relate to those.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: And plus I try to be funny and you know, if I kind of portray myself as kind of a bumbling, stumbling idiot part of the time, which all of us are, then I think people just relate to that.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you ever come off that way, but I do agree with the stories um and people relating with embarrassing stories because everybody has them, right?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a true piece of life.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And especially I think for 18-year-olds at that point, every embarrassing moment feels like life or death, right?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're just going to die if that one thing happened, or because this one thing happened, they've lost, you know, respect or every friend that they've ever owned, or whatever, you know, like things like that.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that that is really um that chapter particularly, I really, really enjoyed with mixing the fear and embarrassing moments.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And like you're saying, you just wear your your you know, silliness or your insecurities right out there.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay to own them.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's a great lesson.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that was wonderful.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: That was wonderful.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: So when you were piecing all of this together, did you expect that your son would sit there or that any 18-year-old was going to sit there and read through cover to cover, or did you want them to take it in bites?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I try to have a balance of optimism, but also realism.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a very pragmatic person.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: I know that most 18-year-olds don't read books, for one thing.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: I know that my 18-year-old does not read a lot of books.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: He likes some fiction.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: And to be truthful, I don't think he's actually finished reading this book, to be totally honest with you.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now, he maybe he has.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: I know he's read part of it, but I don't know if he's finished it.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I do know some other 18-year-olds and other kids who have read the whole thing and enjoyed it.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I really I wrote it with the hope that people who are 18 or in that phase of life would read it.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: But also I wrote it knowing that most people are not ready and really receptive to these lessons until they're in their 30s or 40s.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when we've gone through enough pain and and frustration and disappointment in life to where we're really ready to change and we're ready to be open to some of these lessons.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's so I kind of hold those two things in tension a little bit, hoping that when you're young you can you can learn some of these things maybe from this book, or that it opens you up to the possibility at least.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: But knowing that most of the time we're not really that receptive because we haven't experienced enough pain and disappointment in life.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's true, but now it's a lifelong thing that he can always have, or any 18-year-old can always have.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like that book, The Places You'll Go, right?
• 11:19
  unknown: Dr.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Seuss, I remember getting that for graduation, and none of my friends actually read it at 18 years old, but it's like one of my most treasured books because someone gave it to me and they wrote something in you know the beginning, and now I can really appreciate the lessons in that where I couldn't appreciate them at 18.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: So now it's funny that you mentioned that book.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: So my son's actually in the next room as I'm recording this, but he has his headphones on, so he will not hear me say this.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: But um, and I don't, and we didn't discuss this ahead of time.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: So whenever he was little, I bought a copy of that book.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And every year at when he's completed a grade, I take that to his school and have his teachers sign the book.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: So literally yesterday I dropped it off at his high school.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: He's graduating in a couple weeks from the time we're recording this.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm getting emails from his teachers because I emailed them all and I'm like, hey, can you guys go by the office and sign this?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: So several of them have already told me, yeah, we dropped by, we signed it.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's really cool.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: And he doesn't know that I did this.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: So this is gonna be one of his graduation presents.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: That is really cool.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody gave me the idea years ago, and so I've just followed it since then.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I just thought that would be kind of a cool present.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great present, absolutely.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Especially when he's like trying to think back to, you know, remember that teacher that was blah blah now he's gonna have all the names in one book.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: I love that idea.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: We do have a couple teachers who have signed it who I know he really disliked those teachers, so it's gonna be kind of funny when he opens up, he's like, Oh, this teacher really believed in me.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: And oh, I really did didn't like that teacher for whatever reason, you know.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, that'll be it'll be good.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: He'll appreciate it, right?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Again, someday, someday.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, for sure.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, it was really funny because as I was reading this book, right?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're both writers.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: So in chapter four, you're discussing generous people and how that they believe that there's more than enough to go around.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And they do.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: I find that to be very, very true.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but from a writer's perspective, I don't know if you hear this a lot with writers.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: I hear this a lot with writers, that they, well, it's been done before, so what can I have to say?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or, oh, you know, someone talked about something like that.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, what can I have to add to that conversation?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: So from a writing perspective, pulling that into generosity, what would you, what advice would you give to that writer that is sitting there thinking, like you're talking about generous people thinking there's enough to go around, but writers sometimes come from a different perspective saying, oh no, it's been done, nobody's gonna want to read my book.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, what would you say to that?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, everybody has unique stories.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: You might be talking about the same topic, but nobody has your unique perspective on whatever that topic is.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I can talk about fear or failure or productivity or whatever topic it is that I have some experience with.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: I can talk about it from my perspective and I can share with you stories where I've succeeded and failed, or things that I've tried and did work or didn't work, or whatever the case might be.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: And those are my stories, and nobody else can own those stories because that's my lived experience.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't think that the topic is not really the relevant thing.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's how you present the topic.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can have two movies that are on the same subject or that take place in the same setting or the same location, but they can be two completely different takes on that.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the generosity comes not in feeling like you have the answers on that topic, the generosity comes in sharing your story.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think sharing our stories is one of the most generous things that we can do because it's opening ourselves up to other people, it's being vulnerable and sharing our highs and our lows and our mistakes and our successes and and just who we are as people.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: I but it's hard to do.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think sometimes we run away from that because we're afraid people are gonna judge us or that we won't be accepted, or nobody's gonna care.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: But but you never know and unless you put it out there, and you would be surprised at the people who actually do care when you put yourself out there.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I I just operate on the the principle of everybody has something to teach, everybody has a story, everybody has things that you've learned that can help somebody else.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's so true.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: So for all the writers out there listening, either in our daily writer community or writing beyond that, listen to that advice.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's great advice.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Now I need to take that advice too.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's easy to give out advice, but I uh I need to to live that out better every day as well.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think we all can to some some degree because we all sit there feeling inadequate in our own journeys and thinking, well, how could this help somebody else?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: So totally, but you've got to have a container for it.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think for me, now I can't speak for anybody else, but for me, writing books and having a podcast, those two things are containers where I can put those stories.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: So that to me is the value of having uh a podcast or books, or if you do blog posts or something else, or or you do public speaking, those are are those are holders or containers for your stories.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: So if you kind of already have that system in place, if you do a podcast or you do books or blog posts or something, then you're gonna have kind of these ready-made containers for those stories.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: And having a schedule, have having a publishing schedule of podcaster books, that can really help pull those stories out of you on a regular basis.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, because there's a like a commitment to create that content.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: And you've got to produce it.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if people are expecting your podcast or they're expecting a book when you said it was gonna be released, they're expecting it.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: And you gotta you gotta produce.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's part of being uh that's part of approaching our work like a professional.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, I went off on a totally different direction.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's that's great.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um again, this is this is I had a lot of thoughts about writing as I was reading this, which is funny because I know that that's not necessarily what this book was for, but I guess because we are in the writing community, yeah, I almost always think of writing.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's where my mind always goes.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: I know people in my life are really sick of hearing about it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: And and there does kind of come a point, I don't know if this is your experience, but there comes a point at which you start to kind of censor yourself a little bit.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: And and you because we've all we've all had that person in our life who like they are all about the one, whatever one thing they're really into.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: And they talk about it incessantly.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: And at some point you start to kind of think, I wish I'd shut up about that thing.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm sick of hearing about it.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure there's people in my life who are sick of hearing me talk about writing, but I just I get so excited about it and I think about it constantly, and this is what my job is and what my hobbies are based around.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of hard not to talk about it, but you kind of have to to balance that with the idea of you know, not everybody in your life wants to hear about writing all the time.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: But here, as we're talking on this podcast, this is a writing podcast, so we can geek out about it all you want.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, which is the best part for sure.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when you were talking about, so you're talking about living in the overflow mindset um in one of your chapters.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you talk about when life gives you lemons, this is your quote that you put in there.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: When life gives you lemons, gather some generous friends and help make lemonade, then share it with the neighborhood.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, my question to you is how has that mindset affected your business?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's that's a good question.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the funny thing is that I remember writing that, and I remember writing it and thinking, this is the cheesiest thing I've ever heard in my whole life.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: But I left it in the book because I was like, you know, this is so silly and cheesy, but I'm just gonna leave it in there because it's I'm writing it for my kid, and and I do think the principle is true.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: But that's kind of a side note.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what was the question?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: How has this uh how do I how has that attitude affected your business?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because it is a great, it's a great quote.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: We always hear, you know, when life hands you lemons, make lemonade.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great, but you're taking it a step further than that, saying be generous with that process and then be generous with the actual lemonade.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, how has that mindset affected your business?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I would say I would say for my business, I'll take that one first.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'd say it's had a radical impact on it.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: So anybody listening to this, they probably know I'm a ghostwriter.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of my main gig.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're a ghostwriter too.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you do podcasting too, you do writing.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we we both do kind of the same, really the same kinds of things.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I have found that I think success, now when I say success, I mean like having an actual income based on something.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think success in this field really is not about your writing skill.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh you have to have the skill, but if you can write well and if you if you know how to structure a book and if you can produce on time and you're good with clients, then I think you can have a successful career in this field.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to be Shakespeare or you know, Ernest Hemingway or or whoever, but you do have to be solid and know the skill.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I think what really helps it to be more successful is the networking and the generosity and connecting with people.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things that I try to do, there's really two two things.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm sorry, there's three things that I try to do really consistently.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't always do them consistently, but I really try, that I think have been really helpful in terms of trying to be generous.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: Number one is having guests on my podcast is I feel like I that is a generous thing to do um because I'm trying to promote somebody else and pull ideas and things out of their head that can benefit my listeners.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: So there's some generosity involved in that.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: But also number two, I try to introduce people all the time.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: So just yesterday I connected you with somebody who who had a specific need in their business and it took maybe 60 seconds to send an email, maybe 30 seconds.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: But I just try I try to do that every day, and I I do that consistently, you know, probably five or ten times a week.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: I connect this person with this person because they both can benefit from some type of connection.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then I also send out a lot of books in the mail.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I spend a considerable amount of money each month on sending out books, you know, on the postage and the mailers and the buying books and things like that.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, probably two or three hundred dollars a month doing that kind of thing because I find a lot of joy in it.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I I love it.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I find that those those things of just connecting and featuring people on my podcast and sending out books, that has a a really big return to it in terms of just building relationships and and so forth.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd say those those are three ways that I try to live that out in my business.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that I would think comes back with your writing too, right?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: As a as somebody who's interviewing people on your podcasts, you get more adept at asking questions.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that skill set comes in handy when you're ghostwriting for somebody, right?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Asking those questions.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: It does.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: Although I'll be honest, I I still feel like I'm not that good of an interviewer.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like I listen to people who are really good interviewers.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now I realize I'm comparing myself to like people at the top of the game, like Howard Stern, I think is a great interviewer.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Johnny Carson was a phenomenal interviewer.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um Jordan Harbinger, you know, on his podcast, he's a great interviewer.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm always comparing myself to those and those types of individuals who are they have reached the top of their craft in asking great questions on probing into their guest mind, those kinds of things.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I think I'm a decent interviewer.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I'm great at it.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: I always feel like I can grow much, much more in that regard.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you're a good interviewer.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: But then again, I'm starting out, right?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm at the bottom of my game because I'm just starting.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: You're a little further along.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: So when I listen to you, I'm like, wow, he's a great interviewer.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe one day I'm gonna be just like that.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess there's always someone you can look up to and aspire to be like that's been doing it longer or that seems to get it faster or easier.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: There is, and and honestly, the thing that I struggle with with being an interviewer is that I think there's two kinds of podcast interviews.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: At least as I and I've listened like you have, I've listened to a lot of podcast interviews over the years.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: There seems to be two kinds of uh ways of doing it.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: One is you have a topic that you're interviewing your guest on, and you kind of have a list of questions that you're going through, and you try to be mostly focused around that topic.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: The other type is a freewheeling conversation.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like many times somebody will have um a guest on their show, they'll say, Hey, I have this celebrity.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna talk about whatever.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: And they'll ask a question, but then they'll just go off on all these other random topics, many times, which is really fascinating.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think my my dilemma as an interviewer is I sometimes never quite know which direction that I think is better for my show because it is a writing podcast.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: I try to stay focused on writing, but there are some times where you just want to go down a rabbit trail that has nothing to do with writing.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I find those conversations are interesting.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: So what I try to do as an interviewer is I have a list of questions prepared, and then I always tell the guest um, we're probably not going to use all of these, but I'm gonna use the most of these.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm also going to just follow my curiosity.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: If you mention something that I want to explore, we're gonna go down that that trail.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I try to come prepared to the interview, but then during the conversation, I try to put myself in the seat of my listener and think, what would my listener want to know?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's why many times in in conversations, you'll you might hear me say something like, so let's say somebody there's somebody's out there who has never written a book before.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: What would you tell them, you know, might be the first steps to getting started?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I try to ask questions that I think a listener at different stages of their journey would want to know.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Whether that's successful or not, I don't really know.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: But that's what I try to do most of the time.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's effective.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I do, I think it's effective.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, just being a listener of your podcasts, I always feel like the questions that you ask are extremely valuable.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the type of people that you're interviewing, they do bring their own perspectives and their own journeys to the conversation.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're getting to know that person, which is fantastic.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: But um, the the value that that you bring with the questions that you're asking is extremely valuable to me as a writer and as a business owner, you know.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it it branches out more than just one way.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's great.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: I one thing that I try to do, I think more than anything else, is I try to really tune in emotionally to the guest, which is hard because it's hard to really listen, but also be the interviewer because you're always kind of thinking one or two steps ahead.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like whenever they wrap up that question, you can't just sit there and ruminate on what they just said.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to ask the next question.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you've got to, you don't want to always take a hard right turn.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when the guest has just told an emotional story about losing a parent or or something, and and maybe they're really getting emotional, which doesn't, which doesn't happen a lot on a writing show, let's be honest.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: But if it does happen, you don't want to go, okay, now let me ask you about your new book.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think you want to maintain some emotional sensitivity there.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that is a challenge, but I would say I try to be to be really mindful of how the guest feels on my show.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: So before we hit record, I always try to remember to ask, you know, what else can I do to make you feel comfortable?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: Or what would make this this interview really a success for you?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Or is there anything that you'd like me to ask you about or a prompt you want me to give?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because I always want to make sure they're getting to talk about what's important to them in the context of the show.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then many times at the end of the interview, if it feels right, it doesn't always feel like it it fits into the context of the conversation, because I don't want to be fake about this, but many times I will say, you know, hey, before we wrap wrap up this interview, I want to take a moment just to acknowledge the good that you're adding into the world by your writing, by your podcasting.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I try to think of some specific ways to really compliment the guest because when they leave my show, I want them to feel good about their interaction with me.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I want them to feel like, hey, Kent made me feel good.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: I felt uplifted, I felt seen or heard, I felt acknowledged.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that guest is gonna remember how you made them feel as an interviewer or as a host.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: They're not gonna remember the questions that you asked them.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: They don't really care about that stuff.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: What they care about is did you value them as a person?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: Did you make them feel good?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: Did you make them feel safe as your guest?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I try to tune into those things as much as I can.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't always do a great job at it, but I try to be mindful of it.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like being mindful of it is sort of like half the battle.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny, just listening to you talk about this.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, having read the book, you really do live out these 18 words in practice, in how you live your everyday life, in how you structure your business.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if it's something that you have to think about, or do most of these things now at this stage of your life kind of just come to you?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like the practice of being generous, the practice of being a good listener, because you talk about that too.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do those things come natural to you at this point?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's a that's a good question.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think um I think I've always been a person who likes to give.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: So my dad is a very generous person.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in fact, I when I was visiting with him last week, you know, he was talking about all the and he wasn't trying to like lift himself up.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: We were just in the in the midst of conversation, you know, just the ways that he helps people, like he gives people money constantly.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's somebody in his town who needs a washer or dryer.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: If somebody gives him one, he'll have it fixed up or he'll repair it and give it to that person.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: He's he's always been a person with a huge heart, very, very generous.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I've always kind of had that impulse.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: But then I used to be a pastor and I've always been sort of an introverted person.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I think listening comes kind of natural to me.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess I have some of those innate kind of impulses, but then being around people like Vincent Puglisi, who's had a big impact on both of us, um, you know, especially with like his new book, The Wealth of Connection, which is great, that has kind of given me a way to to um what's the word I'm trying to think of?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: A way to kind of box those up, or a framework, or a system to be generous in ways that is helpful to people and that helps grow your business and make connections and all those kinds of things.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I I do try to live them out.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: I don't always do a very good job of it, but I try to be mindful of of all those things in the book.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: And mindful, like you said, is half the battle for most of us, right?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: If we can just be conscious of it.
• 30:26
  unknown: That's it.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and just putting in, I think just having some simple ways that you can live out those things.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like I really only do a handful of things well.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I send out books to people a lot, you know, I try to make connections, um, you know, podcast stuff, sharing, commenting on social media.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: Really, if you just do three or four or five things consistently, that can go a really, really long way.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you do talk about um, I think it's in chapter five, you're discussing creativity and pulling in different ways that you can kind of be creative while also being generous and collaborating with other people.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you as a writer pull that angle of collaboration and creativity and generosity all together?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of people are like, well, writers, you just do your own thing.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why do you need to be with somebody else?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, how would you how would you address that?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: How would you explain that to other people?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Where as a writer, collaboration can be a really key piece to what we do.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: So that is a great question.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm glad you asked that because I don't I don't get the chance to talk about this very often.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Or people people don't really ask about it very often, but I have a really specific way that I like to do nonfiction books.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now it it depends on the book and what shape this takes, but I look at it like this.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you write the book, and let's say, okay, this 18 works to live by, you know, the book we're talking about.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I have the content of the book, it's 18 chapters, I have stories in those chapters, I have, you know, material where I'm trying to explain or teach concepts and challenge people to action, those kind of things.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: But what I tried to do with this book is I I tried to think of, okay, what are all the different ways I could bake people into this process without them necessarily having to be a co-author?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because when you have like a co-author, then you get into all kinds of different agreements or contracts with people, or and I'm not saying you shouldn't do that because you know having co-authors can be great.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: But aside from like actually being a co-author with somebody, there's all kinds of things you can do to bring other people into that process creatively.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, in this book, I think in most every chapter I mentioned at least one or two people who have been helpful in some way, or I'll tell a story about somebody.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: I I never try to well, that's not true.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say I never try to say anything negative about anybody, but that's not true.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: The people that I did say negative things about, like uh, I think one of my grade school PE teachers who I didn't like at all.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: That was a great one.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: At the time I perceived of him as a jerk.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: He actually kind of was a jerk a little bit.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: That was my perception at the time, at least.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: He probably wasn't.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I obviously I'm not gonna name him, you know, even though I could name him, but I'm not going to.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: But people who have done good things or I want to tell good stories about, I'm gonna name them.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I tried to to bring in people whenever I could to say, hey, this person helped me in this certain way, or whatever it is.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, then if you have beta readers, you can mention them, obviously in the book.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in this particular book, I didn't have blurbs or endorsements because I got honestly the reason is because I got the book done so close to publication date, I didn't have time to get any blurbs or endorsements, which I could, which was my own fault.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but another way that I try to do this with a straight up nonfiction book is having interviews in the book.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, like uh a book that you see behind me on the shelf, you obviously you can't read the title because it's way back there, but it's performance-driven giving.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: This book launched last week.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I did it with a couple of other authors.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: With that book, it's a straight up non-fiction book.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: There was an interviewee in each of those chapters.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: So a way that we tied in people into that book was we had those interviews.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: And what that allows us to do then is as the book launches, then we can highlight those people on social media.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: We'll send them a book, uh, a signed book.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, in fact, I just shipped off a huge box of books to the other co-authors.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I signed them first and they're going to sign them and then send back to me.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: So to me, a book is a way that you it's an excuse to connect with people in lots of different ways.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: Whether you mention them in the book, whether you have interviews or endorsements or or whatever it is, um, a book gives you the chance to connect with people and collaborate with them in some interesting ways.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: And and I love that about books.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's great because it doesn't take away you or your position as the author.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, it just includes them.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: It opens up another for creativity to flow and boost them up to be generous with them or generous with what they have to say, allowing that to be a part of it.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's great.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's great for other writers to hear.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I know we've just, you know, we've talked about this in our Daily Writer group and you've discussed it on your podcast before about um sometimes being a writer can be lonely.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: It can feel lonely.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: So when you talk about things like this where you're collaborating in small ways and large ways, I think that that's a really great thing to realize that we can do as writers.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think if you can kind of adopt the idea of if you can commit to never doing anything in your writing life alone.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now you can write a draft of something by yourself, and many times you should because it has to be your vision.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: But but you can also have beta readers.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: You can have somebody write a forward for a book or a or uh or give some endorsements, or you can interview them for the book, or you can tell a story about them in the book.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's all kinds of ways you can bake other people into the process of the book and its publication, not necessarily having to be a co-author, and although that's great too.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or having some kind of compilation thing where uh you have a lot of people contribute a ch, you know, a lot of people contribute a chapter to a book.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: That can be a way you can do it as well.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: But you can just be the solo author of a book and have a lot of people be a part of the process also.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think it makes it a better product.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's great to realize um for all the writers listening.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's wonderful.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: So in chapter eight, and this this kind of this hit my heart a little bit.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: You discuss um one last day with someone who has passed based on the dream that you had.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was curious how that thought process affects your relationships, both personal and in business.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that that thought affects that?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe the way you treat people or the way you deal with people in in the sense of this could be your last day with that person.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't think about it all the time, but I think as I get older, I think you have a greater awareness that your time on Earth is limited.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I see my parents, both of whom are in their 70s at this point.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I I see all kinds of other people who are in their later years.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now, not that my not that my parents are going to be leaving us anytime soon, I hope.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I think you have a greater awareness that that time is limited and we're we're frail and we're fragile people.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: We get sick, we die, you know, think accidents happen, things like that.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I I don't think about it every moment, but I I always do think about, or at least I try to have a mindset of, you know, life is short and it's limited.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: So you better make sure your business with people is where it needs to be.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: And what I mean by business is, you know, make sure you have things resolved with people who you have arguments with, or don't go to bed angry with your family, you know, don't leave things unresolved if you can possibly help it.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think that that informs how I I try to live.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't always succeed, but but it is something that's on my mind a lot.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a true story about the dream that really did happen.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it has I've thought about it hundreds of times since then.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: And for whatever reason, I just felt really compelled to include it in the book.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: I can see why that type of a dream would stay with you.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I know it would for me.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: I would I would be analyzing it over and over and over again, even as as short as you describe the dream being.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it would be something that would really stay with me for sure.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's great that you included it.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, in chapter 12, you talk about growth.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I love this because I I always love growing.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, reading will change you.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's why it's uncomfortable, you quoted in there.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love that so much.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: So for an 18-year-old reading this or an older person reading this, why do you think that that's important for them to understand?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think you have to embrace the fact that that growth, growth is uncomfortable.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, when when you're growing, it it means you're changing, it means you're stretching, it means things are not going to be the same.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so many times, you know, kind of especially in the the author community, in the book world, and the entrepreneur world, we present growth as this really positive thing.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: When in reality, it's painful, it's not comfortable because as humans we don't like change.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm the guy who hid out in the bathroom, you know, going to a networking event, and that's that's probably not the only time that happened.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's sort of my that's my way of dealing with things sometimes to run away half the time.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I just think it's uncomfortable, and so therefore we avoid it.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: And specifically reading, if you're serious about growing, reading is a great way to do it, obviously.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not comfortable because it's presenting us new ideas and things that we need to change and areas of our lives that need that need to die, and something else needs to grow up in its place.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought, but I think once you embrace the fact that you're not meant to always be comfortable all the time, then life just kind of gets a lot easier because so many times we just expect life is gonna be perfect because we live in America and we're like, oh, things should always be perfect in America.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: But as we record this, I mean here in Missouri, gas is like 450 a gallon.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: How much is it where you live?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, it's a it's about that four, yeah.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Four, it was 458 when I saw it the other day.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to know what it is in Illinois because Illinois has like a crazy tax on gas and it's like super high in California and other places.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: New York, yep.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's political chaos right now, there's a war going on in Ukraine, there's all kinds of division and stuff, and the world is crazy all the time.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I I think if we just embrace that life isn't perfect and every day we're gonna have challenges, it's an opportunity to grow.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: So if you expect life's gonna be perfect and comfortable all the time, then I think you're just gonna go through life angry and irritated and agitated all the time, which is not really a good place to be.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely not.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, for you yourself too, you've done a lot of growing, even just in your job shift over the last few years, switching from a professor going to a full-time ghostwriter.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: That must have been, I mean, as great as it was that you were embracing this new thing, it must have been really uncomfortable.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: It really was.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, particularly when I left my full-time job and left the security of that.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: No, I didn't do that.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: That was a very rational, measured decision.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because sometimes you hear about people who like leave a job, because there's kind of this thing in the entrepreneur business community where it's like, yeah, I quit my nine to five to go do my own thing.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we sort of frame it as this big heroic kind of thing, like, yeah, you know, the heck with my boss, I'm gonna cut the handcuffs and I'm gonna be my own person and all that, but you still have to feed your family and pay your bills.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, so you need to have a plan for doing that.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: For me, it that was not really that scary of a thing because you know, I made sure we had a few months of savings in the bank, I made sure that my client work was consistent, um, I made sure that I had client work lined up.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: So it it wasn't it was not an irrational decision by any stretch.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I wanted to make sure my wife was really comfortable with that.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it wasn't that situation necessarily that was uncomfortable, but I think I've had a lot of discomfort the past year because with every project that that gets finished, I'm always like, okay, when are the next ones going to happen?
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and I'm always working on several concurrently, but there is this discomfort that comes, and I'm sure you you face this too, MJ, where you know, when you own your own business, you are the person who's in charge of it, and you're the one who who is responsible for its success.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: And you're not doing it alone, but you are responsible for it ultimately.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: And there's something that is a little scary about not always knowing what's gonna happen six months from now.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, it it is it is scary, and it requires you to grow and to kind of hustle a little bit or a lot, yeah, and to take charge and to have faith in yourself.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, it it's been it's been uncomfortable most of the time.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: I would think so.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I also know that that's how people grow, and that's how you that's how you build something of substance, and that's how you build a business that hopefully is successful on some level.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is you you have to let go of of the need to be comfortable, which is I don't I don't think you can always let Go, but I mean, I think the way our growth works is we have a spurt, then we kind of rest for a while, then we grow some more, then we rest for a while.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's like a linear uphill kind of a thing necessarily.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, that makes sense.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so now how you got to this point where you're a full-time ghostwriter, you talk about in chapter 14 the conversation that changed everything that you had with your wife, um, where she kind of was just like, okay, I don't want to listen to you talk about this anymore because you are not taking action.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then you went and you took action.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: So when you had that first moment of realization, you talk a little bit about it in the book, but as you were spurred into action, my my question was a lot of writers suffer with imposter syndrome, right?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of writers suffer with uh this isn't going to be good enough.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: Were you solely spurred on the fact that she was just like, yeah, you're never gonna get it done?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Or did you have any of those imposter syndrome thoughts going through your head as you went through that process for your very first book?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's funny because I I didn't really feel I've never really felt like an imposter in terms of ghostwriting other people's books.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because I have always felt very confident that I could do it.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm an analytical person, I knew that I could figure it out.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: And the way that I approach books is, you know, whatever kind of book we're trying to create, I look at books that are in a similar genre or in a similar style.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: I break those down, I reverse engineer those books, and I think, okay, here's how the book is kind of put together.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: Almost like breaking apart a car engine.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you take an engine out of a car and you disassemble it, then you can see how all the parts are put together and what goes into what and how things work.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, I know nothing about cars.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: I just put that metaphor out of my hat.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: I assume it's true.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: That would be the theory.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really know.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I think if you're an observant person and you're a writer, you can basically you know disassemble a book to find out how is it structured?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: How are the chapters how do the chapters flow?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh how does one story feed into the next one?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: How do they start and end chapters and transitions and all that stuff?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I never felt like I couldn't do it.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: I will tell you though, with this with this book that's coming out this fall called The Faith of Elvis, this was my first book for a major publisher.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it I I never felt like an imposter doing this.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I can talk about this publicly because my name's on the book.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: I never felt like an imposter, excuse me.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: I never felt like an impostor, but this whole process, I've sort of felt like, man, I feel really fortunate to be working on this.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: And for a while, I felt like I'm not sure I have any business working on a book of like that's going to be out there this much.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's this is like a major release on one of the most arguably the most famous entertainer in American history, or one of the most famous entertainers, you know, and I I have felt a massive weight of responsibility to get it right, to get the details and the facts right.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is the book is going to get some attention, and I'm a little, I'm still a little nervous about it, to be honest with you, because there are people out there who are Elvis nuts, meaning they're huge fans of Elvis.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I just want to make sure I'm honoring Elvis well, that I'm honoring the author, Elvis' stepbrother well, the publisher.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I just have have felt like the whole process, you know, like I've got to really, I've got to deliver.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like this is this is not just some random self-published book that 10 people are gonna read.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is like a legit, really major release from a publisher.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to do the best job I possibly can.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it's never really been imposter syndrome so much, but I have really felt stretched, especially with this project and probably others that will come after it as a result of this, uh, at least I hope.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: But I I will absolutely give my wife credit for challenging me and using some reverse psychology on me, you know, telling me that the day years ago that, you know, I don't think you're really gonna ever write any books because you talk about it, but you ever you never actually do it.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that really worked.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: It irritated me to the point where I was like, okay, I'm gonna show you.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're gonna express doubt in me.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna show you, I'm gonna make it work.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's great.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's such a such an important um piece that you included in this book, I think, because a lot of times it is the people right in our home that challenge us the most to rise to the best.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: But now the flip side of that is that she's always believed in me.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: She's always expressed belief and support.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: Even with transitioning to a ghostwriting business, um, she's always had unwavering faith in my ability to do it, which hasn't meant the world.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: I can't imagine trying to build a business where you have a spouse or a partner who doesn't believe in you or who is antagonistic about it.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think that would be extraordinarily hard to do.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a challenge enough to do it even when you have somebody who's really supportive.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: So for anybody who's listening who who's in that challenging kind of a situation, um, my heart goes out to you because you know you're you're kind of fighting a battle on two fronts, but you can still do it.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: You can still do it.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: So chapter 15.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: This had to be like my most fun moment in this book where you talk about gratitude and the power-ups from Super Mario Brothers.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love this so much because it was such a good visual.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, all I could see was him with his little fists like hanging into that thing and the power-up popping up.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love Super Mario Brothers.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: That was so great.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: So does your do you and your son often talk about gratitude in that way?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, does he see that visual?
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: Or was this the first time you made that analogy for him in this book?
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: That was the first time I'd ever made that analogy.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember where that came from.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I mean, I I mean I know where it came from.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: It came from Super Mario Brothers, but I don't remember how I get that idea.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think sometimes you just are trying to think of a way to open a chapter and something pops into your head, and you're like, okay, I can work this in and I and I can make it work.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, but once I had that idea of okay, the power-ups, then I can connect it with gratitude, and I really do think it's accurate.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think gratitude just individually on a daily basis, but also gratitude toward others, it makes a huge difference because it changes your perspective.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: It sure does on every piece.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, can you talk to me about your cover?
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know that this was something you put a lot of thought into, and I think that other deli writers would really like to hear about the thought process that went into this cover because it's so lovely, it's kind of timeless and um, you know, I don't know, it just looks really personal.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit about that.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I love talking about this because it gives me a chance to mention my designer, Christy Griffith, who is a wonderful graphic designer, and you can connect with her for anybody listening, at uh her business is called Thumbprint Creative.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: She has done uh several of my client book covers as well as I think all of my book covers.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'd have to go back and look, but but yeah, she's really, really good and she's done a bunch of stuff for me graphics, logos, that kind of stuff.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the Daily Writer logo, the font, she's done all that.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: And the way that that started out is it's the same way that I start out any project, which is I'd like to have a model or a template to follow.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, for this book, I wanted something that was kind of a timeless feel in the what I would call the book of wisdom genre, which is kind of throughout history, you hear about these like little books of wisdom that people would carry around with them, sort of like the book of Proverbs, kind of an idea.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a book that has little short sayings or stories or pieces that are timeless bits of wisdom that you can live by.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: This was the whole idea behind this book.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanted to have a cover that reflected that concept.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: So when I work on a book, whether it's me or my or clients, and if I'm having input on the cover of a book, then I always start with a model.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: And typically I'll look at two or three or four books in the same in the same genre, and I'll see what kind of font choices do they use, what do their covers look like, how do they communicate emotion through those graphics and designs.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: For this book, there was one particular thing that I looked at, and that is a book called The Last Lecture by a gentleman named Randy Pauch, I think is how you pronounce his last name, P-A-U-S-C-H.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: And he since passed away, but he had a book come out probably 15 years ago or so called The Last Lecture.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a lecture, it's the the written and the edited version of a lecture that he gave.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think this was the story.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, when he found out that he, I forget what he had, cancer or was it something else?
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: He knew he was going to die.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so this was like his last literally, he was a college professor, his last um message of wisdom of life wisdom to his students before he left this earth.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's the general gist of the story.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm probably butchering some of the the details, but that was the essence of it.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_02: And the cover of his book was a very timeless, sort of like leathery kind of looking book uh that had a string around it, very similar to the one that I have on my book.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I really loved that.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I sent that to Christy and I said, Can you create something that's kind of like the vibe of this book?
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I love the string element.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, we don't want to copy it directly, but I like this idea of having a string around it.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: So she came up with three or four different um designs, and we just kind of worked it from there.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, we went, it was kind of a long process to do it, but uh she's very patient, she's super detailed and great.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of how we ended up with that cover.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's fantastic.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's important too for um writers to understand the impact of their cover.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a lot of times I hear, you know, people will spend years on their on their written work, and then they're like, oh, I just picked a picture.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean you just picked a picture?
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: You just spent years writing it.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you think it should be represented by someone, something that represents represents your work?
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I don't I don't think um, especially newer writers, I don't think they put the same understanding and appreciation sometimes into the cover design.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the over and the overall design of the book I think is radically important.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's why with this book, at least with the print version, you know, the Kindle version, you could play around with fonts and sizes and that kind of stuff.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: With the print version, I paid very close attention to uh the spacing on the page, you know, how many lines are on a page, uh, how much space is in between each sentence.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I paid attention to the sentence length, the paragraph length.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I spent a lot of time going through the whole book, making sure each sentence was as short as I could make it.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted it to be punchy and short and simple.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: And even the choice of the paper, I think makes a difference.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you should never use white paper for a nonfiction book unless it's unless it's a book with a lot of pictures, because white paper is harder on your eyes.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um those kinds of things I think make a really big difference in the enjoyment that the reader has as they're going through the book.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the chapter length, I think shorter is almost always better.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm a big fan of having something that people can enjoy, they can read fast, they can recommend it, and they can give it to the next person.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not a really a fan of big long books unless it really needs to be a big long book.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's great.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I really do think that you nailed the length of this, um, especially as something for your son.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, everybody likes a short book.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like a diary from dad.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it really is timeless pieces of wisdom that can stretch for generations of people.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think that you did a phenomenal job.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that you published this.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I'll I'll give you a little, this is a little kind of background story.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if people are interested in hearing about this.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_02: So the way that this actually happened, that this book actually was written, is um I had outlined it last summer.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: I had kind of piddled around on it in the fall, knowing that I still had a few months to write it.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: I knew it was going to be kind of a short book.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's like 25 or 30,000 words or something like that.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: But, and I had several client books I was working on.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was like, okay, my plan was to write it during the month of December.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, in mid-November, that's when the Elvis book started.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_02: And we did a draft of that in 10 weeks or so.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that consumed all of my spare time, basically.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_02: I had no time to work on the 18 words book until Elvis was done, the first draft of it.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't until February that I really started writing the book.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, and you were you and I were both at a business retreat in February.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, and nobody at the retreat knew this, but you know, in the evenings after things were done, I was I was staying at the same place where the retreat was.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was up till, you know, 11, 12, 1 in the morning, those two or three nights, you know, in the airport on the plane.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was banging away the draft of this book, just trying desperately to get it done because it had to go to the editor, and then it had to go to Christy to design the interior.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, sometimes we look at the the book production process as you know, you have the finished product and and you sort of have this image of, oh, the author was sitting on the beach with the waves lapping at their toes, uh, in peace, and they're enjoying some fruity drink with an umbrella in it, and they're just riding away in bliss.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_02: And my experience writing this book was it was really stressful.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had to get it done.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_02: I was really, really pressed for time.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: But that was that was my own doing, though.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I did it in the amount of time that I that I could get it done in.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: I do think it turned out really well, and I'm happy with it.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_02: But the reality is that I think every book project is like that in some sense.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_02: Is you you get it done however you can get it done.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_02: If it's texting, you know, things to yourself on a plane with no service, and you're hoping it syncs with your computer, you know, whatever way you have to get it done, you just you just have to sit down and and get it done.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then you rewrite and you revise and you edit, and that's just the process.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's messy and it's ugly, but that's how books get written a lot of times.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's true.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's true.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's no pretty way to do it.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we try to, we try to make it pretty, but I I don't think it's ever always pretty.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_02: And even if you have this idea that, well, if I were a full-time writer, then I would have all this time.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's not really the case.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really have that much more time for writing than I do when I had a full-time job.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: The reason is because I'm doing a lot more networking, I'm on a lot more podcasts, um, I'm doing more podcast stuff myself.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to networking events, I'm doing mastermind stuff.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like a lot of things have filled up that time that my former job took up.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't necessarily have that much more time to write, as crazy as that sounds.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, I totally get it done.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: Understand.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you do.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: You have to roll your sleeves up and do it dirty.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: This has been so much fun, Kent.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for letting me interview you.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: This was really, really wonderful to get a peek inside your brain on this whole project.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, and I'm apologizing because you know, you opened the closet door a little bit and what you saw was this pile of this pile of junk that's precipitously stacked, just waiting to topple over at any moment.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so as we close out this interview, we're gonna slam the door shut and hope nothing comes tumbling out.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's how my mind is most of the time.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll try to read your next one and maybe we can do this again.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this is um tentatively, I'm not gonna commit 100%, but tentatively, this is the first book in a series.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: So the next book will be 19, the book after that'll be 20.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: So my plan is to release one of these books each year on my son's birthday.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love this.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is such a great thing.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll interview you in another year.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: We'll do this again.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be great.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we'll see where it goes tentatively.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I'm I shouldn't commit to this publicly, but uh, I think the title of the next one is going to be 19 reasons to keep going.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: And the subtitle would be something like a father's wisdom um on no, a father's wisdom for when you want to quit.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it's all about 19 reasons to keep going when you feel discouraged and when you want to give up on on your dreams.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was trying to think of what would I what would I have wanted as a 19-year-old.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something I needed and still need sometimes.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's great.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so needed for both our you know, transitioning youth and our adults.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: Transitioning adults, yeah.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a lot of transitioning adults over the last few years, I've noticed.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's great.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you again.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: This has been an absolute blast.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Kent.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that was definitely a lot of fun, and I'm so grateful for MJ for taking the time out of her really busy schedule to interview me about this book.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_02: I loved talking about the book, and of course, you know, what author doesn't like talking about their own writing.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_02: So that kind of goes without saying, I guess.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I but honestly, I really love talking about this book because of what it means to me and and what these ideas and what these themes in the book can mean for you and other people as well.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh if if we live them out and if we aspire to become something more than what we are.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I do want to mention, and I would I would be remiss without mentioning this, of course.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: I want to mention that I think this book makes a fantastic gift for graduates.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: So if you have somebody in your life who is graduating from high school or college or going through some other kind of transition in their life, I think this is an amazing book for graduations, also for when people turn 18.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's that's the situation I wrote the book for when my son turned 18.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this works for any person who's turning 18.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_02: In addition, I think this makes a great gift for Father's Day, whether it's for kids or for fathers.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of different people I think who will really enjoy this book, you hopefully being one of them.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: So make sure and grab a copy.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um the book is not very expensive.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's$9.99 paperback on Amazon and just uh two or three dollars for the ebook on Amazon as well.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the audiobook is coming very soon here in just a couple months.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I hope you enjoyed this episode.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: I loved uh again, I love chatting about this book.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think these themes are really important, and I hope you enjoyed this conversation.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for listening to today's episode.
• 1:03:36
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• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one of the very best ways to develop better habits and impact more people's lives with your writing is to spend time around other successful writers.
• 1:03:49
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• 1:03:56
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• 1:04:00
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• 1:04:04
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• 1:04:12
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• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, and I'll see you tomorrow.