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IDAHO SLAY SUSPECT BRYAN KOHBERGER 'ALIBI' WITNESS??? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.
0:12
Speaker 2: The trial judge is putting Brian Coburger's feet to the fire, saying,
0:20
Speaker 2: so what is your alibi? What is your fake alibi?
0:25
Speaker 2: Who said that?
0:26
Speaker 3: What is your alibi? Now? Notes of alibi is due.
0:33
Speaker 2: The state is asking could you be a little more
0:35
Speaker 2: specific than he's just wandering around town?
0:39
Speaker 3: And the defense is now alluding.
0:41
Speaker 2: To the fact they have witnesses that place Brian Coburger
0:47
Speaker 2: somewhere completely different than the crime scene on King Road
0:54
Speaker 2: where four beautiful young University Idaho students are slaughtered in
1:00
Speaker 2: their own beds. Where where is he at three am?
1:05
Speaker 2: I can't wait to hear this witnesses? What witnesses? As
1:11
Speaker 2: I've told Minia Juri, nothing good happens after midnight. So
1:15
Speaker 2: where is Coburger going to tell us he was at
1:17
Speaker 2: three am at the time of the murders? And what
1:20
Speaker 2: witnesses are going to bail him out a four murder
1:26
Speaker 2: one charges? So you want to tell me that's not
1:30
Speaker 2: where he was at three am waiting to make his
1:33
Speaker 2: interest into this home under the cloak of darkness, Because.
1:37
Speaker 3: I say that's exactly where he was.
1:40
Speaker 2: I mean, see Grace, this is crime Stories thank you
1:43
Speaker 2: for being with us here at Crime Stories and on
1:45
Speaker 2: series XM one eleven. First of all, what is a
1:50
Speaker 2: judge looking for? Will they even respond? Or will somehow
1:56
Speaker 2: Coburger's defense team wiggle out of yet another other judicial command?
2:01
Speaker 3: Listen to Nicole parton Crime Online.
2:04
Speaker 4: Judge John Judge set in April seventeenth deadline for Colberger's
2:08
Speaker 4: legal team to provide documents related to an alibi. Last year,
2:12
Speaker 4: at least two possible alibis were set out by Colberger's attorney,
2:17
Speaker 4: the first saying it was Colberger's habit to go for
2:20
Speaker 4: long drives alone late at night. Defense attorney and Taylor
2:25
Speaker 4: later gave the court brief information saying, quote, evidence cooperating
2:29
Speaker 4: mister Colberger being at a location other than the King
2:32
Speaker 4: Road address will be disclosed pursuant to discovery and evidentiary
2:37
Speaker 4: rules as well as statutory requirements unquote, the location has
2:42
Speaker 4: not been revealed.
2:43
Speaker 2: Joining me now an all star panel makes sense of
2:45
Speaker 2: what we know right now?
2:47
Speaker 3: First to Marine.
2:48
Speaker 2: Callahan with dailymail dot Com, an author of Ask Not
2:54
Speaker 2: the Kennedys and the Women They Destroyed? Oh you're going
2:57
Speaker 2: to need a volume two for that, Marine Callahan. But
3:00
Speaker 2: that said, back to Coburger, what alibi?
3:04
Speaker 3: Alibi?
3:05
Speaker 2: My rear and I can't wait to hear this, okay,
3:08
Speaker 2: And the judge is basically ordering them because under the law,
3:11
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna get with Tara Malik about that high
3:14
Speaker 2: profile lawyer in that jurisdiction about you can't the defense
3:19
Speaker 2: can't say, oh yeah, I've got an alibi. No, no, no,
3:23
Speaker 2: notice of alibi has to be more specific so the
3:27
Speaker 2: state will be prepared to respond.
3:30
Speaker 3: And I mean, and of course I'm going to go
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Speaker 3: to delatory in a moment.
3:32
Speaker 2: What kind of alibi is that creepyda driving around and
3:35
Speaker 2: round and round in circles at three am. They got
3:38
Speaker 2: to come up with something better than that. But to you,
3:41
Speaker 2: Maureen Callahan, tell me what's happening. Coburger is now being
3:46
Speaker 2: forced to hand over fork over and alibi.
3:50
Speaker 3: That's got to hurt.
3:51
Speaker 5: Go ahead, yeah, I mean, it's streams credulity that this guy,
3:56
Speaker 5: who is on trial for one of the most savage
3:59
Speaker 5: murders of this young century seemingly so random so brutal,
4:06
Speaker 5: is taking about two years to come up with an
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Speaker 5: alibi witness in what is you know, the trial of
4:13
Speaker 5: his life.
4:15
Speaker 3: It also strains credulity.
4:17
Speaker 5: You know, in a post nine to eleven world, we
4:19
Speaker 5: live in a twenty four to seven surveillance state. Whether
4:23
Speaker 5: or not he left his phone at home or left
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Speaker 5: it off his car was spotted on surveillance cams. Blood
4:31
Speaker 5: with a ninety nine point nine nine nine eight percent
4:34
Speaker 5: chance of belonging to a biological male not in his
4:37
Speaker 5: bloodline was found at the crime scene. He was stalking
4:43
Speaker 5: at least one of these victims on Instagram well before
4:47
Speaker 5: the murders.
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Speaker 3: He was spotted driving around the house well.
4:50
Speaker 5: Before the murders. He had broken into a female friend's
4:53
Speaker 5: house before the murders as a pretext to install digital
4:56
Speaker 5: cameras to spy on her when he went home after
5:00
Speaker 5: the murders. Around the holidays, even his own family, including
5:04
Speaker 5: notably his sister, began to suspect that he had done
5:07
Speaker 5: it and went and searched his car, which they were
5:11
Speaker 5: surprised a little to find had been thoroughly scrubbed with bleach.
5:15
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, the mountain of evidence is substantial.
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Speaker 3: So it's an insult to a.
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Speaker 5: Jury that will hear this case to say it has
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Speaker 5: taken so very long to unearth this most crucial witness.
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Speaker 2: You know what, I'm stealing everything you just said, all
5:35
Speaker 2: of it, because it's all right, and especially like the
5:40
Speaker 2: turn of phrase you used is strains credibility. B s.
5:48
Speaker 2: Let's break it down. They're lying, that's what it is,
5:52
Speaker 2: an outright line. But I like the way that you
5:54
Speaker 2: said that it strains credibility.
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Speaker 3: You know.
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Speaker 2: I want to talk about everything she just said because
6:01
Speaker 2: right now the judge and the Brian Coberger murder trials
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Speaker 2: has demanded that the defense hand over their alibi.
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Speaker 3: Now to you.
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Speaker 2: Tara Malik, high profile lawyer joining us out of that jurisdiction.
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Speaker 2: You can find her at Smith Malik dot com. I
6:17
Speaker 2: still think your name should be first. But that said
6:19
Speaker 2: Tara Malik, as we all know, under the Constitution, the
6:24
Speaker 2: Fifth Amendment gives you the right to remain silent. You
6:27
Speaker 2: don't have to give an alibi, you don't have to
6:29
Speaker 2: bring on a witness, you don't have to give evidence,
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Speaker 2: you don't have to speak, you don't have to do
6:36
Speaker 2: any of that. And the jury will be instructed that
6:39
Speaker 2: they cannot hold any of that, particularly the defendant's right
6:44
Speaker 2: to remain silent against the defendant, and.
6:46
Speaker 3: They have to agree to that.
6:47
Speaker 2: Typically they do derry Wood, Dyer or jury selection, which
6:51
Speaker 2: coincidently means to speak the truth. So, Tara Mallick, since
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Speaker 2: the defense does not have to say anything than how
6:59
Speaker 2: is it? And put it in that shell, how is it?
7:02
Speaker 2: The judge can say, hand over your alibi? Now, how
7:07
Speaker 2: does that happen? They seem to be in direct contradiction.
7:11
Speaker 6: Well, Coberger, you're exactly right. Did not have to say anything,
7:14
Speaker 6: and he certainly didn't have to present an alibi. He
7:17
Speaker 6: decided he wanted to.
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Speaker 7: And what is just incredible in this situation is that
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Speaker 7: it's not a typical alibi where you would say something
7:27
Speaker 7: like I was at mister Smith's house, you know, from
7:31
Speaker 7: two in the morning until noon the next day.
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Speaker 6: What they said instead was I'd like to take drives
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Speaker 6: at night where you know, what does that do? What
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Speaker 6: it does is corroborate part of the state's case here,
7:45
Speaker 6: which is he was not home and he was in
7:48
Speaker 6: an unknown location. So now instead of having to prove
7:52
Speaker 6: that Goberger was not in fact home, all they have
7:55
Speaker 6: to prove is, well, he's already admitted folks that he
7:58
Speaker 6: was out for a drive somewhere, and they just have
8:02
Speaker 6: to shore up that last little bit that where he
8:04
Speaker 6: was going and where he ended up was this house.
8:08
Speaker 2: Okay, so let me understand this, Chris mcdona, Chris mcdona.
8:12
Speaker 2: I found Chris mcdona on the interview room on YouTube.
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Speaker 2: He's got his own channel. And I can't remember what
8:20
Speaker 2: search I put in, but it was late at night.
8:22
Speaker 2: It was like one o'clock in the morning. I'm still
8:24
Speaker 2: awake researching coburger. I hadn't been to the crime scene yet.
8:32
Speaker 2: Just before I had gone and I found McDonough and
8:35
Speaker 2: I think with Honey, his wife, but he was in
8:40
Speaker 2: a car driving about literally two miles an hour, and
8:44
Speaker 2: it was perfect because they were pointing out here is just,
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Speaker 2: for instance, the Exxon station. Here's that, and if you
8:51
Speaker 2: go forward and you turn left, you go up a
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Speaker 2: hill and it's very concentrated and the streets are very narrow,
8:58
Speaker 2: and it was if I was driving through the neighborhood myself.
9:02
Speaker 3: And as a.
9:03
Speaker 2: Matter of fact, that quick Check or whatever that gas
9:07
Speaker 2: station was on the corner turned out to be I
9:10
Speaker 2: doubt that Chris mcdonna knew it at the time. That
9:13
Speaker 2: he showed us turned out to be critical because a clerk,
9:17
Speaker 2: and I think it was a female clerk took.
9:20
Speaker 3: It upon herself voluntarily.
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Speaker 2: To go through days and days painstakingly a video surveillance
9:27
Speaker 2: and catches a white Elantra speeding by that little gas
9:32
Speaker 2: station at about three o'clock in the morning.
9:34
Speaker 3: Bam. That was a huge piece of evidence.
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Speaker 2: And I had actually seen it on a drive along
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Speaker 2: a virtual drive along with Chris mcdonna, and the moment
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Speaker 2: I got out there, I couldn't wait to meet up
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Speaker 2: with Chris to find out everything he knew. Now I
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Speaker 2: want to ask you, Chris mcdona, you go on a
9:54
Speaker 2: drive about which means you had nowhere else to be
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Speaker 2: at two, three, four o'clock.
10:00
Speaker 3: In the morning. That was some drive, wasn't it?
10:03
Speaker 2: From his place that coincidentally led him to the crime
10:09
Speaker 2: scene at King Road at the time that they were murdered. Right,
10:16
Speaker 2: that's quite the bad luck for him, right, the coincidence.
10:21
Speaker 2: And then we were hearing Marine Callahan with deallymail dot
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Speaker 2: com describing that he didn't She either said didn't have
10:30
Speaker 2: his phone or didn't have it turned on. But then
10:32
Speaker 2: when he did turning on, we realize he is pinging
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Speaker 2: a distance away from the house and takes a long,
10:40
Speaker 2: circuitous route back home, and I timed it myself, Chris,
10:45
Speaker 2: as I'm sure you've done. Took me over an hour
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Speaker 2: to get from the crime scene all the way back
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Speaker 2: to Washington State University where he was.
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Speaker 3: In school getting his PhD.
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Speaker 2: An hour, but if he I'd taken the normal route,
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Speaker 2: it would have been about eight minutes. What a coincidence
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Speaker 2: that he happens to place himself with his own alibi.
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Speaker 3: Much like Scott Peterson.
11:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was at the marina where her body washed up,
11:17
Speaker 2: that I was there the day she went missing. He's
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Speaker 2: really placing himself at the crime scene.
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Speaker 3: Chris mcdonne. Does anybody get that?
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Speaker 2: Yeah?
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Speaker 8: I mean you're one thousand percent right again, Nancy, I mean,
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Speaker 8: think about it, right. You know, some other dude did
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Speaker 8: the crime, but I happened to be in the neighborhood.
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Speaker 8: Oh and by the way, I forgot to tell you,
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Speaker 8: I had my phone turned off the whole time. But
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Speaker 8: every other time I've been in the neighborhood, I've had
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Speaker 8: my phone on. And you know, it's almost I can't
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Speaker 8: wait to hear And you, more than anybody have been
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Speaker 8: in that courtroom, you know, a hundred times with these
11:57
Speaker 8: kind of guys, and you think to your shelf, you know,
12:00
Speaker 8: wait a minute, what's the opening statement going to be
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Speaker 8: from the defense? Because that's how that's the only thing
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Speaker 8: we're going to have at that moment. And it's interesting
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Speaker 8: that you just said, you know, he's going to, you know,
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Speaker 8: start producing all of these witnesses that are going to
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Speaker 8: buy this alibi out there, you know, some other dude.
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Speaker 8: So I when you drive up that road, your whole
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Speaker 8: sense of oh my gosh, this guy knows this neighborhood.
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Speaker 8: It just comes so clear to anybody that that took
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Speaker 8: that drive or will take that drive.
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Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace.
12:53
Speaker 3: Let's refresh your recollection of this.
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Speaker 2: Marine Callahan joining us dalemail dot com and author of
12:58
Speaker 2: Ask Not the Kid and the Women They Destroyed Again.
13:02
Speaker 3: You're gonna need a volume two.
13:03
Speaker 2: But that said, Mariine Callahan didn't payings and other information
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Speaker 2: place him Brian Coberger in close proximity to the murder,
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Speaker 2: saying about eleven times before the night the co Eds
13:21
Speaker 2: and Ethan shape.
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Speaker 3: And were murdered.
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Speaker 5: They did, Nancy, I believe it may have been twelve.
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Speaker 5: And you know that information just doesn't lie what possible
13:33
Speaker 5: reason did that young monster have to be in that
13:39
Speaker 5: neighborhood seemingly surveilling that house. And you know, that timeline
13:44
Speaker 5: that you just threw up, I think is incredibly important.
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Speaker 3: I believe it.
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Speaker 5: Shows he turned the cell phone off at twelve forty
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Speaker 5: seven and it comes back on it four forty eight,
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Speaker 5: So that would be the window of time that the
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Speaker 5: savage murders are being committed. And you know, when we
14:01
Speaker 5: talk about the delay of this trial, which is you know,
14:06
Speaker 5: really to my mind, making a laughingstock of the American
14:10
Speaker 5: criminal justice system, I think it's important to remember that
14:13
Speaker 5: there were two young people in the house who survived
14:17
Speaker 5: that night, one of whom a young woman who actually
14:21
Speaker 5: saw him exiting the house and froze in a sort
14:25
Speaker 5: of very animalistic fear response. You know, where is the justice,
14:29
Speaker 5: not just for these families, but for these surviving victims
14:34
Speaker 5: who will carry this with them their entire lives. Where
14:38
Speaker 5: is the fear that memories will fade or become even
14:43
Speaker 5: more fungible, that the defense might really have something to
14:48
Speaker 5: leverage there. You know, I've said this in a column
14:53
Speaker 5: I wrote about the piece, But even the name of
14:55
Speaker 5: the judge presiding in this case, judge, judge who can't
14:58
Speaker 5: seem to make things happen. It feels it feels like
15:01
Speaker 5: a kangaroo court.
15:03
Speaker 2: I agree with you, Marie Callahana, and I've been on
15:05
Speaker 2: the judge's side so far. But as a trial lawyer,
15:09
Speaker 2: having tried so many cases that I've lost count of them,
15:14
Speaker 2: have handled so many please well up into the thousands
15:18
Speaker 2: that I no longer have count of all the guilty
15:21
Speaker 2: please I took on felony cases.
15:23
Speaker 3: This is insane.
15:25
Speaker 2: I mean, the incident happened all the way back in
15:29
Speaker 2: November twenty twenty two, November thirteen, twenty twenty two, as
15:33
Speaker 2: I recall, and they don't want to have the trial
15:35
Speaker 2: until at best summer of twenty five. That means we're
15:40
Speaker 2: approaching November of twenty five, will be then three years
15:47
Speaker 2: since the incident. Back to I'm gonna address delay, delay, delay, delay,
15:54
Speaker 2: the defense best friend. You lose witnesses, witnesses die, witnesses moved,
16:00
Speaker 2: can't be found, their memories become clouded, You lose pieces
16:04
Speaker 2: of evidence.
16:05
Speaker 3: Everything changes. The house has already been torn down.
16:07
Speaker 2: Now, there's no way to take the jury over there,
16:10
Speaker 2: even for a drive by that opportunity is gone. What
16:13
Speaker 2: else are we going to lose before this judge finally
16:16
Speaker 2: moves this case to trial and it is on him. Yes,
16:21
Speaker 2: I know this is a death penalty case. Death penalty
16:23
Speaker 2: cases require more time to prepare. That's enough time. That's
16:29
Speaker 2: too much time. Now the defense is whining they need
16:32
Speaker 2: more time. But I want to get back before I
16:34
Speaker 2: address the delay aspect, which is really being fueled by
16:37
Speaker 2: the judge as you put out, Judge, Judge, I want
16:40
Speaker 2: to address the alibi situation because now the defense is
16:45
Speaker 2: teasing they actually have witnesses to support that Brian Coberger
16:51
Speaker 2: wasn't on the scene. This is what we know regarding
16:54
Speaker 2: pings and finding him on video surveillance. Two forty two
16:58
Speaker 2: Am is at his apartment at Pullman where he's getting
17:03
Speaker 2: his PhD at a different college to forty two. He
17:07
Speaker 2: heads south to forty seven.
17:09
Speaker 3: He's in his car. Wow, I think I'll save my battery.
17:13
Speaker 2: He cuts the phone off like this ac aightal compulsive.
17:17
Speaker 3: Dude did not have a charger in the car.
17:19
Speaker 2: No way three twenty nine, three twenty nine a m.
17:25
Speaker 2: After he cuts his phone off, we're talking about about
17:30
Speaker 2: forty minutes later there He goes by the King Road
17:35
Speaker 2: residence three times in his white Elantra, phone off. But busted, man,
17:43
Speaker 2: you got you on surveillance video. You're not getting out
17:46
Speaker 2: of that four o four. He returns, and he stops
17:51
Speaker 2: in front of the house, surveillance video revealing that to
17:55
Speaker 2: US four twenty. The sedan leaves the area at a
18:01
Speaker 2: high speed for forty eight phone paying. The phones back
18:06
Speaker 2: on south of Moscow State Highway ninety five.
18:12
Speaker 3: And let me tell you something.
18:14
Speaker 2: I got in the car and I drove that route
18:19
Speaker 2: at night, in the dark of night, after midnight.
18:23
Speaker 3: There are not street lights.
18:28
Speaker 2: When a big rig would come toward me, I practically
18:31
Speaker 2: have to pull off the side of the road.
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Speaker 3: It's a two lane.
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Speaker 2: And that's the route he chose to take at four
18:39
Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning.
18:41
Speaker 3: Let that sink into.
18:42
Speaker 2: The jury that this guy's out driving around alone at
18:46
Speaker 2: four o'clock in the morning, turns off his cell phone
18:50
Speaker 2: at coincidentally, once again a coincidence, the same time the
18:55
Speaker 2: four Beautiful University Idaho students are murdered.
19:00
Speaker 3: Okay, he's in.
19:02
Speaker 2: His car driving around. Who is going to be his
19:06
Speaker 2: alibi witness? Take a listen to Sidney Sumner Crime Online.
19:10
Speaker 9: The prosecutors in Coburger's defense have not been able to
19:13
Speaker 9: reach an agreement on a trial start date. Light Accounting
19:16
Speaker 9: prosecutor Bill Thompson requested the trial begin on March third,
19:20
Speaker 9: twenty twenty five. The defense attorney for Coburger and Taylor
19:24
Speaker 9: says she needs more time to review evidence and requested
19:27
Speaker 9: the trial begin no sooner than June twenty twenty five.
19:30
Speaker 9: The judge will decide the exact date, but with it
19:32
Speaker 9: happening in twenty twenty five, the trial will be live
19:35
Speaker 9: streamed by the court. Whether Brian Coberger's murder trial begins
19:39
Speaker 9: in March or June. And Taylor has mentioned the defense
19:42
Speaker 9: expects to have four hundred witnesses, as well as a
19:45
Speaker 9: wide variety of evidence to show a trial.
19:47
Speaker 2: Witnesses witnesses, aren't they alibi witnesses.
19:52
Speaker 3: Let's just pass through this to you, Chris mcdonaugh.
19:55
Speaker 2: You have driven the route, Dislike me, who along that
19:59
Speaker 2: route could possibly have witnessed him not being at the
20:03
Speaker 2: crime saying let's just say between three am and four am.
20:07
Speaker 8: Who That's a great question. I mean, it's it just
20:10
Speaker 8: doesn't make sense. I mean, four hundred witnesses. You know,
20:15
Speaker 8: where are you going to find four hundred witnesses? Number
20:17
Speaker 8: one alibi witness?
20:18
Speaker 3: Well, let's get this straight.
20:20
Speaker 2: I'm asking the questions, you're giving the answers Q and A.
20:25
Speaker 2: I'm the que you're the A. Okay, who in the
20:28
Speaker 2: hey could have been a witness? Somebody at a gas station?
20:32
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no no, not a gas station?
20:35
Speaker 2: Who could have Who could be the alibi witness they're
20:38
Speaker 2: alluding to?
20:39
Speaker 8: Remember, you get those kind of witnesses, and witness testimonies
20:42
Speaker 8: is the worst testimony you could ever Eyewitness testimony is
20:45
Speaker 8: the worst because you know so many variants, right, and
20:50
Speaker 8: so many factors that change instantaneously. I suspect they're going
20:54
Speaker 8: to find people that go, yeah, I kind of looked
20:56
Speaker 8: like that, but that that's not the guy. Uh, we're
21:00
Speaker 8: going to get a lot of that. I think. Also
21:03
Speaker 8: you're going to have friends coming up. Look at I mean,
21:05
Speaker 8: this guy's sitting in jailing, he's getting love letters. Those
21:09
Speaker 8: are the kind of witnesses that you'll get. Uh, you know,
21:12
Speaker 8: and you know, who knows what's what's going to come
21:14
Speaker 8: out of the you know, the magic hat when they
21:17
Speaker 8: reach in and then you know they stick their hand
21:18
Speaker 8: and they pull something out. It's crazy.
21:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I sta'll see how they're going to have an
21:24
Speaker 2: alibi witness. I don't believe it and what that means.
21:28
Speaker 2: Tara mount Mallet, you're the high profile lawyer in the
21:31
Speaker 2: Idaho jurisdiction. If they don't have an alibi witness excluding
21:36
Speaker 2: him from the King Road murder scene in that narrow
21:41
Speaker 2: window of time when we believe the murders occurred, and
21:45
Speaker 2: we can't in fact nail it down because of the
21:48
Speaker 2: time they came home late that night, after a night
21:50
Speaker 2: of co ed partying and going to food trucks and
21:54
Speaker 2: walking in and out of fraternity row, they get home.
21:58
Speaker 2: We know that they made a door dashed delivery. They
22:00
Speaker 2: got the delivery, we know at time that was by
22:03
Speaker 2: their phones. We know that they're on their phones texting
22:06
Speaker 2: and playing games at a certain time, so we know
22:09
Speaker 2: they were alive at that time, and based on the
22:13
Speaker 2: pings when he turns his phone back on, we know
22:16
Speaker 2: the murders had to occur in that time.
22:19
Speaker 3: So go with me, Tara.
22:22
Speaker 2: If there is no witness, no alibi witness, then the
22:27
Speaker 2: only witness to that would be him, which means he
22:32
Speaker 2: would have.
22:33
Speaker 3: To stay to take the stand.
22:35
Speaker 2: He Brian Coberger would have to take the stand to
22:38
Speaker 2: establish his alibi. That will be a cold day in hell,
22:45
Speaker 2: because he will be torn apart on cross examination.
22:49
Speaker 6: Absolutely, he absolutely will be torn apart. I mean that
22:53
Speaker 6: would be a prosecutor's dream for him to take the stand.
22:57
Speaker 6: How is he going to explain the ninth sheef in
23:00
Speaker 6: his DNA, How is he going to explain turning his
23:03
Speaker 6: phone off? How is he going to explain his actions
23:07
Speaker 6: immediately after these murders, leaving the state, leaving a state
23:12
Speaker 6: with his dad, cleaning out the car with Bleach. I mean,
23:15
Speaker 6: he would have a really tough time on the stand
23:19
Speaker 6: explaining his actions to a jury in a way that
23:22
Speaker 6: would be even remotely believable. So I don't think that
23:26
Speaker 6: he is going to be put on the stand by
23:28
Speaker 6: Anne Taylor, I would be absolutely shocked. And as far
23:31
Speaker 6: as his alibi, if he had an alibi, if he
23:34
Speaker 6: wasn't there, I mean, this is a huge case. This
23:38
Speaker 6: is a just heinous crime. And if he wasn't around,
23:43
Speaker 6: why is it that we are just hearing about these witnesses.
23:47
Speaker 6: If it were anybody else who'd been charged with four
23:51
Speaker 6: heinous murders like this, horrendous murders. Why wouldn't they be
23:55
Speaker 6: running to the prosecutor's office or law enforcement immediately and
23:58
Speaker 6: going here are the you know, one hundred people, thirty people,
24:02
Speaker 6: whatever number they want to throw out there, who can
24:05
Speaker 6: corroborate that it wasn't me. I wasn't around the fact
24:08
Speaker 6: that it's taking this long to put some sort of
24:11
Speaker 6: coherent alibi together in and of itself.
24:14
Speaker 3: As suspect Tara Allik, you are exactly correct. Why not
24:19
Speaker 3: on day one go, I was.
24:21
Speaker 2: At so and so, I was sleeping over at my
24:23
Speaker 2: girlfriend's place. I was out playing pool at so and
24:28
Speaker 2: So's house till four that morning. I was drinking at
24:31
Speaker 2: this bar until closing time. They turned the lights on
24:34
Speaker 2: and off, and I finally left.
24:35
Speaker 3: Why not?
24:36
Speaker 2: You're right it has taken since the time of the
24:40
Speaker 2: murders November thirteen, twenty twenty two to come up with
24:43
Speaker 2: the alibi. And here's the other kicker, Tar Malik. Once
24:49
Speaker 2: you commit to an alibi, you're screwed, because as long
24:55
Speaker 2: as you don't say anything, that means you have the ability.
24:59
Speaker 3: To say any thing at trial.
25:01
Speaker 2: But once you commit to an alibi, as they had
25:04
Speaker 2: he likes to take long drives at night. Okay, you're
25:08
Speaker 2: stuck with that. You are stuck with your words. Once
25:11
Speaker 2: you say.
25:12
Speaker 6: That, absolutely, you are, you're absolutely. He didn't have to
25:15
Speaker 6: say a thing.
25:16
Speaker 7: He absolutely, He did not have to indicate that he
25:19
Speaker 7: had an alibi to begin with.
25:21
Speaker 6: He could have just put the state to its burden
25:23
Speaker 6: and say, you know, prove it beyond a reasonable doubt
25:27
Speaker 6: and gone from there. But instead they took this affirmative
25:30
Speaker 6: action of saying, we have an alibi. We'll let you
25:33
Speaker 6: know later on what that looks like and who it is,
25:36
Speaker 6: which is not an alibi to begin with, Let's just
25:39
Speaker 6: be clear on that point. But he's taken this stand
25:42
Speaker 6: now that there's going to be some sort of alibi.
25:45
Speaker 6: And it's also strange because you know, it wasn't like
25:49
Speaker 6: he entered a not guilty plea in this case during
25:52
Speaker 6: his raignement. Either he stood silent, So he's standing silent,
25:56
Speaker 6: he's not entering a not guilty plea. He is not
26:00
Speaker 6: disclosing his alibi. I mean, the whole thing makes no
26:03
Speaker 6: sense and it's very confused as far as the strategy goes.
26:06
Speaker 2: And now we're hearing that the judge can't seem to
26:09
Speaker 2: move the case along, get it to go to trial
26:11
Speaker 2: until three years since the martyrs.
26:17
Speaker 3: That's bs technical legal term.
26:19
Speaker 2: Take a listen to what the families, for instance, of
26:23
Speaker 2: Kelle Gonsolvus have to say.
26:26
Speaker 10: The families of Kale Gonzabz and Xaner Crenodle issued a
26:29
Speaker 10: public statement sharing their frustration and not having a trial
26:32
Speaker 10: start date yet. Leyta County Prosecutor Bill Thompson says he
26:35
Speaker 10: could be ready to present his case in March of
26:37
Speaker 10: twenty twenty five, while Coberger's lead attorney, Anne Taylor says
26:41
Speaker 10: she will not be ready until June twenty twenty five.
26:43
Speaker 10: Taylor also says she plans to call four hundred witnesses
26:47
Speaker 10: in a trial expected the last six weeks. In their
26:50
Speaker 10: open letter, the Gonzavez and Crenodle family statement begins with
26:54
Speaker 10: why are victims family so misunderstood? The letter concludes with
26:58
Speaker 10: we want to start healing.
27:00
Speaker 3: We do.
27:01
Speaker 10: We want to find justice and try to move on
27:03
Speaker 10: from this horrible tragedy. So please please start making some decisions.
27:08
Speaker 2: Amen, Amen, brother, start making some decisions.
27:12
Speaker 3: Judge, Judge, judge, do something.
27:15
Speaker 2: There should not be a three year delay of course,
27:19
Speaker 2: the judge does not want to jeopardize a death penalty
27:21
Speaker 2: case and get a reversal lot appeal if there is
27:23
Speaker 2: a conviction.
27:24
Speaker 3: But three years no, h E double l N way
27:31
Speaker 3: too long.
27:31
Speaker 2: And let me tell you, doctor John Dilatory. I had
27:36
Speaker 2: a case, an incident occurred when I was in law school.
27:41
Speaker 3: The case was tried, there were clear errors.
27:44
Speaker 2: Two defense were tried together, and both of their statements
27:47
Speaker 2: came in where they blamed each other.
27:49
Speaker 3: You can't do that. It's called interlocking statements.
27:52
Speaker 2: You have the right to cross examine a by the
27:55
Speaker 2: way that that is Chris McDonough, that it's not doctor
27:58
Speaker 2: John Dilatory. You have the right to cross examine any
28:02
Speaker 2: witness brought on against you. And so when your code
28:06
Speaker 2: defendant blames you, you can't call the code defendant to
28:10
Speaker 2: the stand if they take the Fifth Amendment right to
28:13
Speaker 2: remain silent. So I had this case, doctor Delatory, that
28:18
Speaker 2: was try when I was in law school and went
28:21
Speaker 2: all the way up to one level before the US
28:23
Speaker 2: Supremes came back down for a retrial. Fourteen years later,
28:28
Speaker 2: I got the case to retry. You know what was
28:31
Speaker 2: left eltory. I went in the evidence room there was
28:35
Speaker 2: one X ray. I didn't know what it went to,
28:38
Speaker 2: but I could clearly see a bullet in it and
28:42
Speaker 2: a baseball cap that said, kiss my bass.
28:46
Speaker 3: What was I supposed to do with that?
28:48
Speaker 2: It took me painstaking work, literally around the clock to
28:51
Speaker 2: put that case back together again. I'm happy to report
28:54
Speaker 2: both code defendants will try separately, and we're convicted, and
28:58
Speaker 2: I'm still behind bars today. Doctor delatory, delay, delayed, delayed, defense,
29:03
Speaker 2: best friend. But what is it doing psychologically to the victims' families.
29:08
Speaker 3: It's destroying them. It's ongoing torture.
29:11
Speaker 11: It's absolutely ongoing torture as to what's going on with
29:13
Speaker 11: these families.
29:14
Speaker 8: Like they said, they just want justice.
29:16
Speaker 11: They want the machinations of the judicial system to work.
29:20
Speaker 11: But here's the problem is that it's not working in
29:22
Speaker 11: their favor. If this is supposed to be about justice, right,
29:26
Speaker 11: we're not seeing justice for the family members. If this
29:28
Speaker 11: is supposed to be about fairness and equity, sure, Brian
29:32
Speaker 11: Coberger deserves fairness and equity, but so do the family members.
29:36
Speaker 11: He violated the rights of these individuals. They should still
29:40
Speaker 11: be alive and they're not, and they have they should
29:43
Speaker 11: have the right for their own speedy trial in order
29:47
Speaker 11: for them to move forward with the healing process.
29:49
Speaker 2: You know what, not only are the victims' families being
29:53
Speaker 2: destroyed psychologically, the way that the victims were destroyed physically
30:05
Speaker 2: is adding so much pain to these family members. Let's
30:10
Speaker 2: just do a quick reality check. As you're looking at
30:13
Speaker 2: the bright, vibrant, happy faces of these four young people,
30:20
Speaker 2: don't really read about them in the headlines anymore.
30:23
Speaker 3: We often hear.
30:24
Speaker 2: About the girls, the girl victims, because many people like myself,
30:31
Speaker 2: believe that one of them was the main target of coburger.
30:35
Speaker 2: I don't want Ethan to get lost in the sauce,
30:39
Speaker 2: but every day their case becomes more and more distant.
30:56
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greece.
31:00
Speaker 2: To doctor Michelle Dupree, my longtime colleague and now friend,
31:06
Speaker 2: renowned medical examiner, forensic pathologist, a former detective with Lexingdon
31:12
Speaker 2: County Sheriffs, an author of Money, Mischief and Murder, the
31:17
Speaker 2: Murdo Saga that also will require volume two, but more
31:22
Speaker 2: important for my purposes, she is literally she literally wrote
31:26
Speaker 2: the book. She's the author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide.
31:30
Speaker 2: Could you explain just so we don't ever forget.
31:37
Speaker 3: What happened?
31:38
Speaker 2: To these four young people with their lives in front
31:42
Speaker 2: of them.
31:43
Speaker 12: Nancy, from what I've read and seeing, this was a
31:46
Speaker 12: most horrific crime.
31:49
Speaker 3: I mean, the.
31:51
Speaker 12: Rage that was carried out on these young people and
31:54
Speaker 12: the absolute devastation of their bodies. I can't even think
31:59
Speaker 12: about it. It was just horrific. It was horrific. And
32:04
Speaker 12: I want to say something about the witnesses that Coburger
32:07
Speaker 12: supposedly has. We know that eyewitnesses are only accurate about
32:12
Speaker 12: fifty percent of the time fifty percent, So this whole
32:17
Speaker 12: thing is crazy. They need to make a decision. The
32:20
Speaker 12: judge needs to start this trial and give this family
32:22
Speaker 12: some closure and time to heal.
32:24
Speaker 3: Let's just start with the murder weapon.
32:27
Speaker 2: We know what the murder weapon is because the killer
32:31
Speaker 2: left the knife sheath. This is a fixed blade unlike
32:36
Speaker 2: you know, a switch blade or a pen knife. You
32:39
Speaker 2: open up a fixed a blade knife. How do I
32:44
Speaker 2: know it kind because Coburger ordered the identical knife, sheath
32:49
Speaker 2: and knife on Amazon, and we have that order. He
32:55
Speaker 2: ordered this knife. Now, the knife itself has never been found.
33:00
Speaker 2: The sheath, however, was found almost under one of the victims' bodies,
33:08
Speaker 2: with Coburger's DNA on the snap where he had snapped
33:14
Speaker 2: and unsnapped that knife. If you look at the sheath,
33:18
Speaker 2: it has a snap that closes down right. It is
33:23
Speaker 2: behind the handle that sheath folds over and snaps.
33:30
Speaker 3: That's whereas DNA was found.
33:32
Speaker 2: That is the type knife used to murder these four victims.
33:37
Speaker 2: And I have long said one of the most painful
33:40
Speaker 2: and brutal deaths is a knife death.
33:43
Speaker 12: Why that's right, Nancy. I mean, this is a sharp,
33:46
Speaker 12: forced instrument. You know, when you even a paper cut
33:48
Speaker 12: on your finger, can you imagine a knife like that
33:52
Speaker 12: being thrust into your body all over and several times
33:55
Speaker 12: in so many places, and then absolutely all the blood around.
34:00
Speaker 12: It's just horrific.
34:02
Speaker 2: Multiple stab rooms, one of the boys the most gruesome
34:06
Speaker 2: crime scenes these LA law enforcement had ever seen. I'm
34:12
Speaker 2: literally seeing cops leave a crime scene and vomit, especially
34:16
Speaker 2: a rookie, vomit over what they've Sayen jump in, Chris,
34:21
Speaker 2: thank you.
34:21
Speaker 8: You know what I got to tell you, because to
34:24
Speaker 8: your point there for a moment that when you get
34:28
Speaker 8: to these types of scenes, immediately the casts off the
34:33
Speaker 8: type of savagery that takes place, because that nice is
34:38
Speaker 8: a very personal weapon. To the suspect and the victim
34:44
Speaker 8: that sees this item coming at them. In this case,
34:47
Speaker 8: it's a k bar United States Marine Corps military killing machine.
34:53
Speaker 8: It's a tool to kill. And those officers, those detectives
34:58
Speaker 8: that got there. I can tell I've stood in crime
35:01
Speaker 8: scenes and looked up the ceiling. Well, the EMMY is
35:04
Speaker 8: counting wounds on the victim, and I'm counting cast off,
35:09
Speaker 8: you know, from that night on every stab one and
35:12
Speaker 8: we're trying to correlate those two together. But in this case,
35:17
Speaker 8: he starts with two and he's got two more to go.
35:22
Speaker 8: This guy is as evil and as brutal as they
35:26
Speaker 8: can get in those things. And not only are the
35:29
Speaker 8: cops going to be having those memories for the rest
35:32
Speaker 8: of their lives, but the family has not only getting
35:38
Speaker 8: pulled through this non decision problem with this judge, but
35:47
Speaker 8: they're also going to have to see all of this
35:49
Speaker 8: that's coming. You know, God bless them.
35:53
Speaker 3: Well.
35:53
Speaker 2: Speaking of that, Chris mcdonney, you're right back to doctor
35:56
Speaker 2: John Delatory. Doctor Delatory, I had similar reactions and still do,
36:03
Speaker 2: having been a victim of violent crime myself. It's hard
36:08
Speaker 2: for family members and loved ones of the murder victims
36:12
Speaker 2: to reconcile a ton of steaming hot bs with legal rights,
36:19
Speaker 2: Like they hear alibi, They're like, oh, hell no, you
36:22
Speaker 2: do not have an alibi. What is this bs he's
36:25
Speaker 2: trying to unload in the courtroom when we know as
36:28
Speaker 2: lawyers that the defense has a right to put up
36:32
Speaker 2: an alibi even if it's a big fat lie. So
36:35
Speaker 2: this is excruciating for family members who hear the judge
36:39
Speaker 2: wants the trial to be three years, three years after.
36:43
Speaker 3: I wish the.
36:44
Speaker 2: State could file for a speedy trial three years after
36:47
Speaker 2: the murders. And now they're hearing Coburger is going to
36:50
Speaker 2: have an alibi and they're having to basically hold their
36:54
Speaker 2: feet to the fire to get witnesses to the alibi.
36:58
Speaker 3: I mean, this is excruciation.
37:00
Speaker 2: Adding the legal process is just torturing the families of
37:05
Speaker 2: these victims.
37:06
Speaker 11: Yeah, absolutely, This is what it means when we say
37:10
Speaker 11: terms like time is relative.
37:12
Speaker 8: So for most of us, right this three years.
37:14
Speaker 11: Yes, we're all up in arms about the delay that's happening,
37:16
Speaker 11: but three years is going to pass for us in
37:18
Speaker 11: an instant. For these family members, each day, each hour,
37:22
Speaker 11: each minute is excruciatingly long. Each time, each experience that
37:28
Speaker 11: it gets brought up is just expands the time frame
37:31
Speaker 11: with which their trauma and everything that's going on with them.
37:34
Speaker 6: Is happening to them.
37:36
Speaker 11: And until there's a resolution that they can accept, it's
37:39
Speaker 11: going to be like a wound reopening time and time
37:43
Speaker 11: and time again.
37:44
Speaker 3: To you, Tara Malik.
37:46
Speaker 2: The right to present an alibi, of course, is guaranteed
37:50
Speaker 2: under the Constitution your defense and the state or the
37:54
Speaker 2: judge can interfere with your ability to put up your defance.
38:00
Speaker 2: But this has really got to be tortuous to the victims'
38:03
Speaker 2: families because they don't believe there is an alibi, and
38:06
Speaker 2: that whatever alibi the defense is presenting is a big lot.
38:10
Speaker 6: Absolutely, it is really difficult for victims' families in situations
38:15
Speaker 6: like this to have to sit through a trial and
38:19
Speaker 6: listen to an alibi, you know, be cobbled together like
38:25
Speaker 6: it's you know, being attempted in this situation, especially under
38:30
Speaker 6: these circumstances where there's absolutely no clarity at all about
38:36
Speaker 6: what this alibi really looks like and whether or not
38:38
Speaker 6: there are actually witnesses who can corroborate that Coberger was
38:45
Speaker 6: somewhere else and couldn't have you know, committed these murders.
38:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's right, Tara. Because they're saying he has
38:53
Speaker 2: an alibi. Right now, we're getting two theories. He likes
38:57
Speaker 2: to go on long drives alone at four o'clock in
39:00
Speaker 2: the morning, and that there is an Taylor.
39:03
Speaker 3: The defense lawyer has said there's going to be.
39:05
Speaker 2: Evan's corroborating coburger quote being at a location other than
39:09
Speaker 2: the king wrote address, and that location will be disclosed
39:14
Speaker 2: pursue it to discovery and evidentiary rules. I mean, if
39:18
Speaker 2: I had an alibi, I'd be screaming it to the top.
39:21
Speaker 2: I'm looking at a Jackie shaking her head. Yes, I'd
39:23
Speaker 2: be screaming it on day when I wasn't there, I
39:25
Speaker 2: was at X.
39:26
Speaker 3: But that didn't happen, did it? Because it's a lie.
39:30
Speaker 2: This is what's happening to Marine Callahan joining us column
39:33
Speaker 2: is for the Dailymail dot Com.
39:35
Speaker 3: I love your columns, by the way, Mariene Callahan.
39:38
Speaker 2: I understand that there is a hearing set for April
39:44
Speaker 2: where the alibi is going to be disclosed.
39:48
Speaker 3: Do you know about that? I know nothing about what.
39:51
Speaker 5: This alibi is going to be, nor the context for
39:56
Speaker 5: the disclosure. Can't wait to hear it, can't wait to
39:59
Speaker 5: hear it. You know, I was listening to your other
40:02
Speaker 5: guests and experts. I was thinking about what this trial,
40:07
Speaker 5: in so far as it's developing, with this like years
40:11
Speaker 5: long gestational period, really sort of why it's striking such
40:15
Speaker 5: a nerve. And I think there's something about what seems
40:19
Speaker 5: to be the white glove treatment that is being afforded
40:22
Speaker 5: to suspect.
40:23
Speaker 3: When you look at images of.
40:24
Speaker 5: Him in court, he's in there without handcuffs, He's in
40:28
Speaker 5: there without being surrounded by law enforcement. If he is
40:31
Speaker 5: guilty of what the prosecution is charging him with, which
40:35
Speaker 5: most reasonable people think is absolutely the case, he is
40:39
Speaker 5: a very dangerous individual. He seems to be enjoying the
40:44
Speaker 5: dragging out of this process. To refuse to enter vocally
40:48
Speaker 5: his own not guilty plea is an fu to the
40:53
Speaker 5: court to.
40:54
Speaker 3: Make the judge do it.
40:56
Speaker 5: And I think what this goes to is this overall
40:59
Speaker 5: sense that right now now in America, like up is down,
41:02
Speaker 5: down is up, it is criminals who are getting the
41:06
Speaker 5: benefit of the doubt, the gentler treatment, while it's law
41:11
Speaker 5: abiding citizens who are really being made to suffer in
41:16
Speaker 5: multiple ways you see it across the board in this
41:19
Speaker 5: country right now, and when you have the families of
41:22
Speaker 5: the victims making a very rational public plea, please do
41:27
Speaker 5: not destroy the crime scene, Please do not destroy this house.
41:32
Speaker 5: It is without question any jury is going to want
41:36
Speaker 5: to walk through. I mean, you guys were just going
41:39
Speaker 5: sort of through the drive that you both took, just
41:43
Speaker 5: sort of really comprehend how well this suspect would have
41:47
Speaker 5: had to know those roads, those unmarked roads that you know,
41:51
Speaker 5: who doesn't drive around in the middle of the night,
41:54
Speaker 5: early in the morning and turn their.
41:55
Speaker 3: Cell phone off undeserted highways. Please.
42:00
Speaker 5: But to have that very very logical, rational request just
42:05
Speaker 5: completely denied, and to have the house demolished within a month,
42:09
Speaker 5: this all seems unfavorably stacked against the victims and their families.
42:15
Speaker 5: And I think that it's why it's so important as
42:18
Speaker 5: you're doing, Nancy, to keep the pressure on everyone involved
42:22
Speaker 5: in this case, because the longer it is delayed, the worse.
42:26
Speaker 3: It's going to be for the families.
42:28
Speaker 2: I just think the summer's coming up. Marine, wasn't Judge
42:31
Speaker 2: going to be out golfing on the lake. He ought
42:34
Speaker 2: to have his rear end up on that bench. Try
42:37
Speaker 2: this case until it's done. Enjoy your summer vacation, judge,
42:43
Speaker 2: while the families of these victims have more and more
42:48
Speaker 2: sleepless knives, full of rage, full of anger, full of
42:54
Speaker 2: disillusionment with you and the justice system. You know what,
43:00
Speaker 2: I'm glad Lady Justice is wearing a blindfold because I
43:03
Speaker 2: would hate for her to see what this judge is
43:06
Speaker 2: orchestrating in this courtroom right now.
43:09
Speaker 5: I just want to know, with your own experience, you know,
43:11
Speaker 5: a case like this for any judge, any lawyer, it's
43:16
Speaker 5: a potential starmaker.
43:18
Speaker 3: So what's the thinking?
43:19
Speaker 2: Who gives a flying fig about being a star? I
43:24
Speaker 2: want justice? You think I ever thought I'd end up
43:27
Speaker 2: on TV when I try a murder case.
43:29
Speaker 3: I'm not you at all. I'm not talking to you
43:32
Speaker 3: at all.
43:33
Speaker 2: I hear you this judge. Yeah, okay, number one. You're right.
43:37
Speaker 2: It could make and break the careers, make or break
43:40
Speaker 2: the careers of all these prosecutors and all this defense
43:44
Speaker 2: team and this judge. In case they ever want to
43:46
Speaker 2: do anything beyond what more different or different than what
43:50
Speaker 2: they're doing right now, you'd think they take it a
43:54
Speaker 2: little more seriously, right, Marie?
43:56
Speaker 3: Callahan.
43:57
Speaker 2: But apparently the judge doesn't care what anybody thinks about him,
44:02
Speaker 2: and that includes what the victims' families think about him.
44:06
Speaker 8: Yeah, let's not forget Nancy your vegan choices as as well.
44:09
Speaker 8: In the jail. You know today today we're serving vegan
44:14
Speaker 8: males for mister Coberger, where everybody else is probably you know,
44:18
Speaker 8: has two pieces of bread with a piece of bologna
44:20
Speaker 8: in between it. So you know, this judge needs to
44:24
Speaker 8: just say, you know, let's get this same moving, let's
44:26
Speaker 8: move it.
44:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you.
44:29
Speaker 2: I'm a little more concerned about a true verdict for
44:33
Speaker 2: these families than I am about his bologney sandwich. But
44:36
Speaker 2: that said, we wait until justice unfolds. I can't wait
44:40
Speaker 2: to hear that album because I guarantee you there's going
44:43
Speaker 2: to be at least one woman that's going to.
44:45
Speaker 3: Rip that alibi to shreds. I think you know who
44:48
Speaker 3: that is. Goodbye, friend,