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Reel Talk with Rich: Fran Fraschilla · Reel Talk with Rich: Stories in Sportscasting

• Rich: Welcome into another episode of Real Talk with Rich Stories in Sportscasting. And when you talk about the best basketball analysts of all time, Fran Fraschilla has got to be in that conversation. I have had the great honor of working with him for years at ESPN, and he's become a dear friend of mine and a mentor of mine. As well, former basketball coach who brings all of that basketball knowledge and a whole lot of entertainment to each and every game he's called at ESPN for the past two plus decades. One of the cool things about this conversation is it dovetails perfectly with a new chapter in Fran's life. And I mean that literally and figuratively. He is now an author, as well as being a basketball coach and a broadcaster. He is just releasing his first book this week. It's called Don't Mess with Happy. You could buy it anywhere books are sold. We're going to talk more about that book right off the bat, but we're also going to get regaled with great stories of the broadcasters who he's worked with through the years, the lessons he's learned from coaching and broadcasting, and a whole lot more in one of my most enjoyable conversations on this podcast to date. Without further ado. Here's Reel talk with Rich, my conversation with Fran Fraschilla Francis Fraschilla the franchise, is joining us on Reel Talk. This is a real thrill for me, pal. How are ya? Fran Fraschilla: You should have said Francis John Fraschilla or Rich: That's right. Fran Fraschilla: or Francis Fraschilla from Flatbush in Brooklyn, you know? Rich: Going all the way back to James Madison High School, right? Fran Fraschilla: Exactly. Richard, what a pleasure to to be on your podcast, honestly. Rich: the timing couldn't have been more perfect that we're doing this, Fran, because now you are not only basketball coach, broadcaster, now you can add author to that list. Tell me all about don't mess with happy. Fran Fraschilla: Well, as you know, I've been in the sport for a very long time. I hate to say that, but it is true. I don't hopefully I don't look my age, but I've been around basketball literally since the sixty-nine, seventy Knicks, And I I've been a basketball junkie literally since nineteen seventy. And there's nothing I you know, I now keep in mind I've not invented any cure for cancer or solved world peace. I've been in the playground of life all this time in basketball, but being a coach for twenty three years, being a broadcaster, growing up around the corner from Vince Lombardi and his family, being around people like Hubie Brown and all the great coaches that I came up, Bob Knight, working with Brent Musberger and Ron Franklin and Rich Hollenberg. I finally two years ago felt like I had a story to tell. and the I'm so happy with the title of the book, Don't Mess with Happy, because I was happy as a coach 23 years, through some ups and downs, got fired a couple times. And when I went to broadcasting, as you know, because you know my story, I had many chances to go back to coaching. And the opening chapter of the book, if I can share it with you, I took the job at Marquette as Tom Crean's top assistant in 2007. As you know, by that time, Rich, I'd been at ESPN four years. And I took the job. I was going. It was June. I was gonna leave the family behind until they moved in September. My boys were little. And I moved my books up there, files, whatever. And our friend Dan Steir our boss at the time, called me to wish me luck. And he didn't try to sell me on staying. He just said, hey man, thanks for everything. You did a great job. You could be really good at TV. And he said, Listen, I just want to ask you, are you happy? Are you happy with what you've been doing? I said, Dan, I'm really happy. I love Dallas. I love raising my kids. I love working four months a year. and he said, Well, great, all the best, man. I hate we hung up. And I told Meg, I said, I'm not going. Why am I messing with Happy? And you've lived this with me the last, you know, 20 years. And that's how the book starts, man. I've been blessed with two incredible careers. And you know, who knew that I would be at ESPN going into year twenty four, but I I I've I've really learned to not mess with Happy. Sure I miss coaching sometimes. These are all my colleagues. You know it when you see me with when you see me BS you and I BSing with all these incredible coaches, Rich: Yeah. Fran Fraschilla: but I haven't messed with Happy and it's worked out pretty well. The formula has worked. Rich: Well, you are at your core a teacher. And that's what all great coaches are. They're teachers. They want to impact young men and young women. And you've done that in both of those career turns as a basketball Fran Fraschilla: Yeah. Rich: coach and certainly as a broadcaster. I know without having read, admittedly, an advanced copy of Don't Mess Fran Fraschilla: Yep. Rich: with Happy. And I'm waiting on that still, Fran. But without Fran Fraschilla: You it's coming, it's coming. Rich: without reading the advanced copy, I know you've been so excited to talk about. All the lessons that you've been able Fran Fraschilla: Yeah. Rich: to share and fortunate to share. If there's one in particular, a great example of how you got better, it probably has to do with one of the great Fran Fraschilla: Yeah. Rich: greatest play-by-play men around, Mike Breen, New York Knicks, NBC Sports, ESPN, you name it. Tell us the Fran Fraschilla: Friend Friend. Rich: Mike Breen if you will. Fran Fraschilla: Yeah, it's funny because like with all due respect to ESPN Fox Sports, whatever, you know, like you went to one of the premier broadcast journalism schools in the country and the world, Syracuse. but when you come from coaching to broadcasting, other than someone sticking a mic in your face, you don't really learn the things that you learn. How to be a play-by-play guy, how to be a sportscaster on the evening news. So all my lessons have been learned from people like you, Mike Breen, Ron Franklin, Brent Musberger, certainly, and there's some great stuff on Brent in the book, and all the great production people we've worked with, right? So I think it was like the 2011 NBA season, right around there. They were on strike, a lockout, so there weren't any games early in that season. And One of our bosses at ESPN said, Hey, Mike Breen's gonna work with you when we when we do the Georgetown Alabama game. I said, Great. And so we do the game and it comes down to the wire, and Georgetown hits a shot at the buzzer, and Mike, of course, goes Bang! And I scream and yell at the same time. It sounds like college radio football when you're here on a Saturday afternoon. You get and I'm smart enough now to know hey, two guys can't talk at once. So he screams, I scream. And the game ends, and after the game, he takes his headset off. He said, Hey, I like you. We've known each other a long time. I let you talk for 39 and a half minutes. The last 15 seconds is that's me. And I said, Mike, I didn't know. And so now here's the lesson the moral. When I work with a young play by play guy, and you and I have such great chemistry that we that we're this isn't ingrained in us. When I work with a young play by play guy, I I usually tell them, hey, listen, last two minutes of the game, when there's a timeout, just say, hi, Fran, what are they saying in the huddle? And I tell them, if it's down to the wire, it's your baby. Last 15 seconds, you take us home. Because when there's a great moment, it's the it's the play by play guy's job. And so that's a lesson I learned the hard way. But it's one of like a thousand lessons I've I've learned with from working with some of the best people in the TV business. So, you know, Mike Breen set me straight. And I never over talk over the play by play guy at the end of the game, Rich, as you know well, because I allow you to star in your role at the end of game. Rich: Well, it it's a great lesson for everyone to learn. And look, no one better to learn it from than the man who's called countless consecutive NBA finals. I want to go back to when you first got into broadcasting. As the Fran Fraschilla: Right. Rich: the cliche is as a coach, you get hired to get fired. So it's gonna happen to just about everybody at some point in time, but making that transition from basketball coach. To broadcaster. What was that like for you? Fran Fraschilla: Well, first of all, you know, I didn't get fired at New Mexico. The the fan I you know, I I retired 'cause of illness. The fans got sick of me. Okay. Rich: Mm-hmm. Fran Fraschilla: So but in truth in in truth, like when you grow up the way we grew up in the New York, New Jersey area, and you're arguing on a street corner or at the park about the Knicks and the Nets, Jets, Giants, you know, Yankees, Mets, and you know, full disclosure, I'm a Mets, Jets, Knicks fan. Growing up, Rangers as well. you you argue with your friends all the time. You know, you gotta come come with your best stuff, So, and I was a sports nut growing up and a basketball nut. So, and a history of the game nut. You know, that's you know, I I love the history of the game. And I was a I was a voracious reader as a kid, you know. I don't even think my boys know what a library card is. You know what I Rich: Ha ha. Fran Fraschilla: mean? Like we had we went to the library when we were kids because we couldn't afford to buy the book. So that's how it started at its genesis, right? But when I was in coaching, I was constantly, you know, in front of a microphone. And particularly in New York and Manhattan and St. John's, because it it's the Mecca of of the media of the world, right? So God forbid a coach passed away. You know, my friend Bruce Beck would say, Hey, can you come down Sunday night and share your reminiscences of John Wooden? Or whoever, right? Or when we went to the NCAA tournament a couple of times at Manhattan and St. John's, you know, Sunday night, selection Sunday, I'd go down to all the stations and hit them and and do that. So I was comfortable with that. When we went to Dallas after leaving New Mexico, I I reached out to Dan Steir and said, I'd like to do this. And I'd known Dan a little bit because I'd done some stuff at ESPN. In the year hiatus when I wasn't coaching between St. John's and New Mexico. And I took to it. I did. And because of all the reasons I told you. And Dan liked my stuff. And the next year I got a full time contract. And the rest is history. And fortuitously for me, we made our home in Dallas. And once he knew I wasn't going to screw up the broadcast, he said, Hey, I want you to be our t big twelve guy. You're in Dallas. And at that time everybody was here, six or seven teams within four hours that I could drive to. And see everybody practice and do my homework. And Kelvin Sampson, Rick Barnes, Scott Drew, Bill Self they were already friends of mine from the coaching business. And it was a it was serendipity that I got to be part of what I think has become honestly, over over the last 15 years, it's the best league. Not every single year, but over the last 15 years, Big 12's been the best basketball league. And I think I honestly think ESPN a lot had a lot to do with it, Rich, because You, myself, Ron Franklin, you know, Holly Rowe, Brent Musberger, our guy Scott Gustafson, all the you Aaron Stoikov all the people behind the scenes. We have told the story of the big twelve as well as anybody could. The players, the coaches, the venues, the teams. And we we've made it happen and I'm I'm proud of that. Rich: Just for name check reference, for those of you listening who aren't familiar with the name Dan Steir, Dan was one of the principals who gave me my break at ESPN, Fran Fraschilla: Yep. Rich: along with Chris Farrow. And he is part of countless people's stories and legacies, Fran included, Fran Fraschilla: Yes. Rich: myself included. Gonna have to get Steir on this podcast too at one point. Fran Fraschilla: Well, you know, let me tell you about that before we move on to other things. I've always I've often said this, Rich, and you dealt with this. But Dan was like you're like a rookie with the New York Giants and Bill Parcells as your head coach. Okay? So nothing slides by. And when he hired me, I said, Dan, and this is another good lesson for people getting into the our business, especially if you're an analyst, but but also a play by play guy. When he hired me, I said, Dan, I'm a I'm from a feedback world of coaching. Don't BS me. When I'm good, tell me what I did well and I'll do more of it. And when I suck, tell me why I sucked and I'll improve. And he never hesitated, to tell me exactly what I could do better. And I've always appreciated him for that because even today, I'll tell you a funny story, and I don't know that you were with me on this game. We've been together so many games, it runs together, but I did a Kansas Kansas State overtime game a couple years ago in Manhattan. And on the way home the next morning from Manhattan to Kansas City, the phone rang and it was Dan. And the first thing I said is, I know, I talked too much last night. And he said, Exactly. So he's still coaching me all these years later. And I don't take for granted as a guy that's done this for twenty plus years that you can keep improving. And that's another great lesson. Rich: So many great things that you're bringing up that I talk about with the next generation of sportscasters already. What are Fran Fraschilla: Yeah. Rich: the most important rules, Fran, that you live by as an analyst? Fran Fraschilla: That's a great question. first thing that comes to mind is preparation, you know. Now I'm lucky when people say, How long does it take to prepare for a game? I say, It's what I do 365 days a year. Now it's a little bit flippant comment, but not really, because this is what I love to do. I love to I love to learn, I love to know about the current trends and coaching, styles of play, the new players coming into college basketball. So I think preparation is the first thing that I try to live by, Rich. I think the second thing, honestly, is joy. I can remember distinctly during the COVID year when we were doing games remotely. And I'm in my your home in Tampa and I'm in my little by that time we had transitioned in Dallas from a big house to an apartment. Because we had a home in Colorado Springs. And I can remember being in our apartment that year. And I said, I don't care where we do the game. And I'm not, we're not gonna lie, and people are gonna know that we're not at the game because it's COVID, right? And we're all remote. And I said, they're not gonna, they're not, they are gonna hear joy in my voice, no matter where we are. We miss being at the and Stillwater or Waco, right? It was tough year, but they heard joy in my voice. And almost to the point where I was worried about our next door neighbor in the next apartment thinking, Rich: Ha ha ha. Fran Fraschilla: Are Fran and Meg having a fight because this guy's screaming? And and so I I live by the joy of the game. I live by and here's two great now. This is what Dan Steir taught me. So your young people that are gonna listen to this broadcast need to know. I learned two things, access and discovery. And that simply means tell the viewer something about a player or coach or team that they may not have heard before. Or if they've heard it before, tell it in a way that you add to the story. Because as you know, we can repeat our best stuff. You just Rich: Mm-hmm. Fran Fraschilla: don't want to repeat it every single Kansas game, okay? Because Rich: Right. Fran Fraschilla: then people tweet me and go, You're telling the same Frank Mason story over and over. I get it. I get it. But access a discovery. Tell me something that I didn't know before. And then the other thing that Dan Steir taught me is forecast. Tell me what you think is going to happen tonight based on your preparation. Now, for me as a coach, it's easy. I don't know who's going to win the game, but I probably have a good idea of how the flow of the game's going to do go. How are you going to beat Kansas in Allen Fieldhouse? Right? Hard. here's the recipe. we got to out rebound him and don't turn it over. I'm gonna tell you that at the beginning of the game. So, but it might not work. And it normally doesn't work in Allen Fieldhouse. But So forecast what you think is going to happen before it happens and get ahead of the story. So instead of saying that was a great pass, you know, I'm going to tell you like, hey, this point guard tonight in Allen Field House, he's got to play nearly flawlessly. He can't be turning it over five times. And, you know, that's kind of how I do it. Access and discovery, forecast what you think is going to happen. Rich: And be up by ten with less than two minutes to go if you have any prayer of winning an Allen Fieldhouse. Fran Fraschilla: Well, and I yeah, I live I live that as a coach and you knew you've heard me share that before. Yes. Rich: For sure, for sure. I I don't mean to ask this question because I'm fishing for compliments. You've been more than kind to me. So leave Fran Fraschilla: Yes. Rich: me out of this, Fran. But what are the things you most Fran Fraschilla: Okay. I Rich: admire in your favorite play-by-play broadcasters? What are the qualities, the characteristics? Fran Fraschilla: Okay. All right. So okay, so first of all, I'm not gonna leave you out of it. because what I tell people about you is you're always prepared. In fact, you're over prepared. There's not a situation that's gonna happen in a game regarding a player or a coach or a a team good getting back to access and discovery that you yourself haven't already discovered because of your preparation. That's true of Sean McDonough. Who might be the best ever, I jokingly say, and I'll even say it about you if I were to get the flu one night and you had to work alone, you could do both jobs. because of because you're always so prepared about the stories. And when we both know the stories, you might tell a story and I add to it. Or I tell a story during a game and you add to it. So that's the first thing is how well you guys are prep prepared. The best analogy I could give you. And I've told this story, and it's in my in my book called Don't Mess with Happy. is working with Ron Franklin, who came out of a radio background. All right. And point of fact, by the end of Ron's career at ESPN, we became very close. And but when you first start working with Ron, he's a radio guy. And I have worked radio also. It's completely different to TV, Rich, as you know. In radio. The it's the play-by-plays guy. Because when you're driving to Walmart to pick up some supplies, you're not seeing pictures, so the radio guy's gotta be way more descriptive, right? You know that, you've done this. So I work with Ron Franklin early in my career and he wouldn't let me talk. He's describing everything, you know? And I was getting really frustrated. And Ron didn't know any better because he came out of radio and turns out he's one of the greatest announcers in history. I got frustrated one night at Missouri and I called Dan Steir the next day and I'm I'm P.O.'d right now keep in mind my very first this is gonna be a two-minute story give me give me some grace here my Rich: Absolutely. The floor is yours. Fran Fraschilla: well my first game at ESPN and I worked with Dave Sims okay now back in 2002 Dave Sims was a great broadcaster now he's a hall of fame broadcaster okay He was great them. He's transcended that. Mariners, Yankees, you know, college sports. And I knew Dave from New York, right? Coaching, and he had the show, he had a show on WFAN. So I'm working with Dave Sims. It's a blowout, Rutgers, Columbia. The next day I called Dan Steir. I said, How was I? He said, You gotta talk more. And I said, Yeah, but I'm working with Dave Sims. I it's Dave Sims. He's just he's great. I I don't want to over talk. It's I'm working with Dave. He goes, No, no, no. We pay you to talk, okay? You got to talk Rich: Ha Fran Fraschilla: more. So I said, wait a minute. So he's the point guard. I'm like the shooting guard. And Dan said in his voice, exactly. So now I've got it, okay? Rich Rich Hollenberg's the play-by-play guy. He's setting up me. I'm the shooting guard. And it's been a great analogy through the years. So now I'm working with Ron Franklin and I'm frustrated. And so I called Dan the next day after my frustration doing a game. And I said, Dan. He's not letting me talk. You remember when I told you point guard, shooting guard? He goes, Yeah, yeah, it's a great analogy. I go, I'm freaking working with Alan Iverson. He's not, he's Rich: Ha ha ha ha. Fran Fraschilla: not passing me the ball. I'm I'm Eric Snow. I'm playing defense. He's so what happened was through the years, Ron and I got to a point where he really trusted me. I set him up to look good, which wasn't hard. And I thought we became a great team in the Big 12, you know. And Ron still had his foibles. He loved Texas. Everybody knew that, Longhorns. But we we became really close. And so, you know, I don't know how I got off on this tangent, but that's what I look for in a great play-by-play guy, is a guy that is a great point guard. And now the point guard can't shoot all the time. Even as a two guard, I can't shoot all the time. I've got to set you up to look good. And to me, it's like having a great backcourt. I if I take you back 50 plus years, it's it's Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe. Nobody thought they could get along because they were always adversaries in the rivalry between the Knicks and the Baltimore Bullets, but they were a great backcourt because they were both great talents and they gave up a little to make sure the other guy looked good. And I think to me, that's the essence of a great broadcast between a play-by-play guy. And an analyst. So you're always trying to check your ego at the door, but you gotta have a healthy ego enough to Say, hey, I'm gonna tell everybody what's gonna happen tonight. Rich: Good stuff. a lot of what you're saying with me resonate resonates as one word, and that's chemistry, Fran. How do you build chemistry with a broadcast partner? Fran Fraschilla: Well, it doesn't start at cheddars, Rich, okay? And Rich: I was gonna drop that joke, but I left it for you. See, I'm being a good point guard. Fran Fraschilla: I know you are. So j just to just to not have an inside joke here, you are a connoisseur. I wouldn't necessarily say a fine dining because our ESPN per diem doesn't allow that, okay? Rich: True. Fran Fraschilla: It's good, but it's not unbelievable. But you know, Cheddar's is my favorite place in Morgantown, West Virginia, and no offense, but it's not like being in New York City or Chicago. But what I love about you is that you always find places that you want us to try. And it's not necessarily a chain. what's that little breakfast place in Morgantown that you took me to? Terra. Rich: Terra. We love Terra. Fran Fraschilla: Okay. So, and jokingly, but seriously, chemistry I think develops off the court, away from the broadcast. And you know, you and I have had many great meals together. We're and and with the other people in our production crew, whether it's a sideline reporter or the production people, and we we we get a chance to talk, we get a chance to talk about family, we get a chance to talk about the upcoming game. And I'll never forget the first couple games I did with Brent Musberger, who we've grown up revering. And he by the way is on the back jacket of my book, okay? My my my murderer's row on the back jacket. Rich: Ha ha. Fran Fraschilla: and and you were fifth, Rich, okay, you were fifth. But it was Brent Musberger, the great Ian O'Connor, six-time New York Times bestseller, Danny Hurley and and Jay Wright. But Rich: It's not too shabby. Fran Fraschilla: not too shabby. You were fifth, Rich. I'm telling you, you were you you were in a tie for fifth, okay? Rich: I I love it. Fran Fraschilla: But seriously, I can remember being with Brent and Holly Rowe in our production team and sitting at McAllister's in Lawrence and listening to Brent Musberger stories. And I'll never forget one of the very first games I did. We're having lunch at McAllister's in Lawrence, by the way. And might have been Aaron Stoikov, our great producer, said, All right, Fran, you're the expert. Tell me what's gonna happen tonight. So I give my little two-minute spiel. You know, in order to beat Kansas tonight, you gotta do this, this, and this. I'll never forget this. Brent says, gonna have to disagree with the old coach here. I Rich: Yeah. Fran Fraschilla: think I think the game's gonna be decided in the paint with the two big guys. And sure enough, that's how the game played out. And so I got so many great Brent Musberger stories, and he's he's the opening chapter of our ESPN years, because I had so much fun working with him. And the chemistry off the court is really built, you know, like like I said, away from the table, the broadcast table. And it's in meals, it's in road trips to the airport, it's get stuck. It's getting stuck in a delay at the airport and we just kind of, you know, we share stories, we get to know each other and become lifelong friends. Rich: Yeah, that's how I became close with your good friend Tom Crean, who you mentioned earlier. We did a Wichita State game together when he first came to ESPN and we ended up spending more time at the airport than we did at a basketball gym, but we've been tight ever since. you mentioned Brent a couple of times, Franny. I would be remiss. I can't let you go without Fran Fraschilla: Yes. Rich: you sharing, and I don't want you to give too much away because everyone should buy this book, of course. But Fran Fraschilla: Yeah. Yeah. Rich: give me your favorite Brent Musburger story. Fran Fraschilla: okay. He's gonna love this. And I can't wait for him to read the book. It's Sunday night before Big Monday in Morgantown, West Virginia. We're at this Italian restaurant that's connected to the bowling alley, Rich, and they have a basement. Okay, it's a really good Italian restaurant. And so we get that lower room in the in Morgantown because it's the Super Bowl. It's the it's the Harbaugh Bowl, as I recall. Rich: Mm. Fran Fraschilla: Okay. And it's the it's the blackout, right? In the middle of the game, like the power outage. And so, of course, Brent, back before it was fed. I got I got two of them. No, I'm only gonna tell one. I'm only gonna tell one because I'm gonna save the other one. I'm gonna save Rich: Okay. All right. Fran Fraschilla: the other, I'm gonna save the other one for the book. And this one was he obviously had bet, a prop bet on how long Alicia Keys is gonna sing the anthem. And he had the over on the anthem, okay? And as you know, his partner in crime was his longtime stat guy, George Hill, of Rich: Mm-hmm. Fran Fraschilla: a very understated man who also was the stat guy for Al Michaels, among many others. So is Brent now. So we're we're all down there. You know, it's our big Monday crew. We're watching the game. Probably 15 of us down there. And great Italian food. Brent's up front. Rich: This is an Oliveros though. Fran Fraschilla: No, no, it was another place. We love Olivarios, Rich: Okay. Fran Fraschilla: but it was another place. This was a bowling alley. Actually, this place was a little more fancy than Olivario's, even though we love we go, well, we do go to Olivario's more than any other place. Rich: We love that place. Fran Fraschilla: We love that place. so he's got the bet on the over-under on the Nat National Anthem. And it's clear that he's got the over. So she starts to sing the anthem. He's sitting up front, and he does not want to be bothered by anybody because he's gonna watch the game, because he probably has a number of bets on the game. He obviously had a number of bets on the game. And so she's going long, and it's clearly going to go over the minute 20 that was the over-under, right? As she gets to a minute, and she's only halfway through the anthem, he turns to us and George, and he says, Georgie, we're off to a good start. And and Rich: Ha ha ha. Fran Fraschilla: and that was so cool. And he would say to me during a game. Who do you like, coach, on Sunday in the Super Bowl? And I would turn to him and say, Well, what are your boys in the desert saying? Right? And then, or he would say, What are your people saying? Right? And then he would say, Well, what are your people saying? I said, I'll get my people to check in with your people, you know? And Rich: Right. Fran Fraschilla: so now, I mean, he was ahead of his time. And there's some more Rich: Truly. Fran Fraschilla: stories like that in the book that I shared that people are going to be blown away by how Brent affected. television sports, honestly, because he's on the listen, Keith Jackson, Kurt Gowdy, Brent Musberger, I mean some of these guys are on the Mount Rushmore of sports broadcasters. And Brent Brent takes his place over his sixty year incredible career. Rich: No doubt. Favorite moment as a head coach, Fran? Fran Fraschilla: Well, probably beating Oklahoma when we were at Manhattan in nineteen ninety five. Cinderella story, four seed, thirteen seed. Only time in the history of the Mac conference that a team got in as an at-large bid because while we dominated the league that year, we got upset in double overtime by St. Peter's. So we were on pins and needles for the week because our tournament ended a week before. And probably that moment, so many great moments with my players who I still stay in touch with, but That was kind of cool. And by the way, we weren't supposed to get in. We won. We vindicated Bob Frederick, the great Kansas Athletic Director who's since passed. And I went down to shake the coach at Oklahoma's hand. And we played great. And he said, You're a heck of a coach. And we've been friends ever since, because his name was Kelvin Sampson. And as you know, because we see Kelvin a lot, incredible friendship developed over time. And then when I started in the Big Twelve, and you and I did many Oklahoma games. And since then Houston games, we we've become dear friends. Our families are friends. James played at Oklahoma after Kelvin left and Kellen's a great young coach and you know, that's probably the best moment. But it it was a great moment because of me having a great team, but it was also a great moment because so many memories started from that game that I still think of today. Rich: Absolutely. Okay. So you gave me your favorite moment as a head coach. What's been your favorite moment in your twenty three years as a broadcaster? Fran Fraschilla: You know, it'd have to be the Central Florida West Virginia game you and I did. Rich: Ha ha ha ha Fran Fraschilla: man, we we've had some Rich: I walked right into that. Fran Fraschilla: we we've had we've we've we've certainly had our share of great moments. Rich: Yeah. Fran Fraschilla: you know, I honestly like so many great games. I mean, I did a game with Ron Franklin, they still show on ESPNU double overtime, freshman Kevin Durant, AC Law, Texas A Back when they were both in the Big 12, you know, shot for shot. so many great games. Allen Fieldhouse, Houston game a couple years ago when they were down six six with 16 seconds ago. But I would have to say, probably one of my most fun moments. By the way, any game in Allen Fieldhouse or Hilton Coliseum is special. Rich: Agreed Fran Fraschilla: And now in Waco, not well, Waco, not Waco's great. My man Scott Drew, but Lubbock is incredible. Right. And now we get to go to McHale But I would have to say, really, well, I'll okay, I'll give you a game. Iowa State's down 22 with 17 to go to number one Oklahoma. Buddy Heal is an all-American. Lon Kruger has a great team. They end up going to the Final Four. Down 17 with 22 to go. There's a random technical foul on Isaiah Cousins. It was a BS technical, but Iowa State cuts it to twenty and then the the the roof caved in. Iowa State wins going away, George Niang and Monte Morris. And I remember during the game said, I remember do this is forecasting for your young broadcaster analyst. I said to Brent during the game, right now you can't you can't run any plays. Just give the ball to Monte Morris and get out the way. And after the game, when they came back from this great comeback in the press conference, Mont Monte Morris said, well, they asked Fred Hoiberg and he said, We just told the guys in the huddle, give the ball to Monty and get out of way. But I remember during that comeback, I said after like a run that cut it to 13, here they come, Brent. Like that was it. Here they come, Brent. And there are still people when I go to Ames that they'll come up to and they'll go, Here they come, Brent. But the fun part is when we started every game with Brent, it was you are looking live at downtown Kansas City, where tonight. The Big Twelve will host its championship inside T Mobile Arena. Hey everybody, I'm Brent Musberger with Holly Rowe and Fran Freshella. I mean, come on. Goosebumps. Goosebumps, man. Rich: Goosebumps. Yeah. Fran Fraschilla: and so I I never forget I never forget those moments. Rich: It it it's ironic that you gave us a couple of epic games and maybe it's because I've known you for so long, but it's also not to damn you with faint praise, it's also because I've been such a big fan of yours for so long. The two games I thought you were gonna mention, you didn't mention. One was Fran Fraschilla: Yeah. Go ahead. Rich: "HIELD!!" and then the other Fran Fraschilla: Well Rich: one Cardiac Kemba at the garden. Fran Fraschilla: Well, that yeah, you know, that was that was a three man crew. You know, th I s you know, again, it's in the book. You'll learn why I was doing the big east, not the big twelve, but I'm working with Doris and and Dave Pasch two of my close friends, because they put us together on the afternoon session of the Big East because Jay Bilas Bill Raftery, and Sean McDonough, rightfully so. They were the A team and we had some incredible games during the day session and That's one I'll always remember because Dave and and Doris and I were part of an Emmy Award nominee live production crew for our work on the Big East daytime. We never work together again, Rich. The three of us. Okay? We never were. Rich: One and done before there were one and duns. Fran Fraschilla: Yeah, we were one and done, and they were both close friends. And to the point I made earlier with a three-man crew. Those two people who I love dearly are two of the most giving, ego less people in our business. And we just had a blast because we played off each other. You talk about a three-man backcourt with a great point guard and Dave Pasch That was wonderful. And Cardiac Kemba And I got in trouble for that. I got in trouble from the local media for something I did that I'm gonna save for the book. Okay? Rich: Okay. All right. You could tease us. That's fine. don't Fran Fraschilla: I'm gonna save it. Rich: mess with happy is the book, by the way, if you haven't been listening the entire time. Fran, let's let's close with this because we are closing in on another college basketball season and Fran Fraschilla: Yes. Rich: I know you're as excited as I am about it. give us the state of the union of college basketball as you see it right now? Fran Fraschilla: as we're talking, we'll you know, we still we're still we're gonna see how this college sports act goes, you know. But I mean we're in chaos off the court with the transfers and everything. And so we're really in uncharted waters. Great that the kids make money now. NIL's great. should have gotten paid or gotten some of this years ago. We know that. but the transfer rules and transferring four times and five. Four years, five times in five years, that's chaos. And we all know it. Even the lawyers who represent these kids, they know it too, right? And so hopefully we'll get to a point where we have some guide guide rails. And I I know this, I'll say this, Rich, because I believe these guys, these are friends of mine. There are guys like me and Kelvin Sampson and John Callapari and Mark Few and others who the game has been great to. and they've made a lot of money, okay? But the thing they've told me, which I agree with, is I don't want to leave my kids who are in coaching this mess. And I believe them. And I think we're gonna get to a point where we clean up some of or if a lot of the mess, but right now it's a mess. And I believe those guys when they say this is not the job that we signed up for when we all started coaching. And you could say, yeah, you could talk a good game because you made a lot of money. But there's a lot of people in this business that aren't making money in coaching, you know. yeah, the top guys make a lot of money, but eighty percent of the people in college coaching from JUCO, D two, D three, and low D one are assistant coaches are living at the poverty level. Rich: Mm-hmm. Fran Fraschilla: So my whole point is we got chaos. Kids deserve money. We need to figure all this out. Hopefully we can get it taken care of because the product on the court is really good because now you can stay in college without taking a chance of going to the NBA and still make seven figures as a quarterback or a point guard. That's good. That's good. And so we got to figure out how to balance everything. Rich: All right. Well said, as always. the list of titles is long and distinguished. Meg's husband at the top of the list. James and Matt's dad. I know how important that is to you, but excellent basketball coach, even better broadcaster, and now you're an author, and I'll add to that a terrific friend and a mentor to me. Fran Fraschilla it's been a pleasure having this time with you. Fran Fraschilla: Always a pleasure, Rich. You're you are the John Stockton of the point guards I have worked with. I can tell you that right now. Thank you. Rich: I'll take it. I'll take it. Everybody pick up. Don't mess with happy wherever you buy your books coming out right now. Fran, thanks again. What a fun conversation with Fran Fraschilla one of the best broadcasters in any sport that you're gonna find, but also a tremendous educator, someone who knows the value of having a growth mindset, always wanting to learn, always wanting to improve, always wanting to be his best. And all of that comes through in a new book that he has just released. More on that in a moment. First. Here my three biggest takeaways from real talk with Fran Fraschilla. First, embrace feedback. Fran talked about how when he made that transition from coaching to broadcasting, he didn't know the rules. Nobody taught him how to be a college basketball analyst. So he had to go on his own guile, but he also had to seek out feedback. And he did that. And the only way you can receive critical feedback and make it work for you is to be coachable. Ironic considering that Fran was a head coach in college basketball for 23 years. But being coachable is a great attribute to have, especially if you're a broadcaster. You always have to feel like you know what you don't know and embrace getting critical feedback from the right people. The second most impressive thing and biggest takeaway from my conversation with Fran, and I'll be honest with you, full disclosure, I've heard him say this during broadcasts where we've worked together in a basketball game. Star in your role. Not everybody is going to be a superstar, but everybody can star in his or her own role. And when you are a great teammate, great things are going to happen. And when you make other people look good, you by turn will look good yourself. Fran learned that from a very early stage on in his broadcasting career. And he likes to consider himself a great shooting guard. And what does he look for in a great play by play man? A great point guard, someone to distribute the ball and get the best shot possible in a broadcast. Fran always knocks down those jumpers, especially. When I'm giving him the assists. My third biggest takeaway from what Fran had to share with all of us, this is the simple one. It's the title of his book Don't Mess with Happy. Sometimes we are all guilty of this. We focus on what we don't have. We focus on the grass is greener on the other side. And sometimes that's just not true. Fran was this close to getting back into coaching after he initially got out and started a career at ESPN. But he had that advice, and that advice stuck with him. Don't mess with happy. Sometimes there are other factors in play that you have to listen to that will influence and inspire the decisions you make in your career. What's next is not always what's better or best. You have to trust your gut and trust the support system around you to figure out where your happy is and what your happy is. And if you're happy in a position, don't mess with it. That book, Don't Mess with Happy, is available now wherever you buy all your favorite books. so I hope you pick that up. I can't wait to read through it myself. It's going to be a tremendously fun and informational read. Speaking of, I want you to do something else for me. I want you to subscribe to this podcast. That's the only way we could keep things going. Hit subscribe when you hit play on the next episode. Give us a good rating. I think this was a terrific episode, but I'm partial. I think all of them are. So give us a five star rating if you feel it deserves it and write a review. Fran said he wrote his book, 400 plus pages, in six weeks. It's not going to take you that long to write a review. Just jot down a few notes and let us know how you think we're doing here at Reel Talk. Also, we are available on YouTube. I've got my own channel, youtube.com slash at Rich Hollenberg B-I-B-T. So you could watch my conversation with Fran and everybody else on this podcast just as much as you can. Listen to us on Apple or Spotify or wherever you check out your podcasts. That'll do it for another edition of Reel Talk. We'll see you next time.