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The Pirate Captain Kidd part 1: Cabin Boy to Captain · TheCampyTraveler

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, hi.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna set the scene.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Spooky ghost story vibes.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: May 23rd, 1701, execution dock whopping England.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Pro.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: The Thames is packed with people who came to see a pirate die.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Captain William Kidd stands on the gallows platform, which is really just the back of the cart that took him from his jail to the dock with a noose already around his neck.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: And by most accounts, he does not go quietly.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: As they're taking the length of rope and connecting it to the gallows, he either has this massive drunken diatribe where he swings from blaming the government to mourning his wife and children that he leaves behind.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or in some sources, they give him just one clean, defiant line: I have nothing to say except that I have been sworn against by perjured and wicked people.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Either way, they push him off the platform and the rope snaps.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: He was saved! Divine intervention.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that is actually you're not far off the truth because back in the day, that was seen by the crowd as divine intervention.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: When something went wrong with the execution, the popular belief was that God himself had said, nope, you got it wrong in the courts.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: However, the crown had a highly motivated reason to get rid of him.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: So they didn't care.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: They picked him up off the ground, found a second rope, tie it up, and finished the job.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the thing that should bother you about that moment.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Six years earlier, this same man was being held by a royal commission, handpicked by some of the most powerful and influential people in the British government, including aristocracy and royalty.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't hiding in the shadows of piracy.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: He was one of the crown's chosen weapons against it.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So what happened in the in-between?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: He figured the other side was cooler.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: They had cookies, you took them.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, he probably didn't figure the other side was cooler at all.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: He probably never really was a pirate.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: He, kid, Captain William Kid, he went out to sea as a trusted measure of the crown, and he became one of the most wanted pirates in the world, but mostly because they needed a scapegoat.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: But let's backtrack because his story didn't start there.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Holly, the Campy Traveler, and this is my guest, Hi Lordan.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna take you on a trip.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna go looking for the real kid.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Not just any kid.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is my kid.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're going looking for the real Captain William kid.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sorry about this, although it kind of works.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I want to feel like we're around like ghost stories, campfire type aesthetic vibe.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of works.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: We'll figure out lighting.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is the first time we've filmed.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, today we'll start at the actual beginning of where William came from because he didn't start on that whopping execution deck in whoppings.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: He actually is the oldest, which is another fun little fact.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: He was the oldest pirate in the golden age of piracy.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So he lived the very bonds.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, pirates were captains.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Captain Jack Sparrow, Captain Blackbeard, pirates were captains on their ship.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh kid.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: The oldest.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: The kid.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the oldest kid ever.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: All the third pirates are five years old.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome to Campy Travels, where we collide with both history and the weird, wonderful, curious things of the world.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I often fall down the rabbit hole when I'm traveling.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And this is that kind of a show.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to interact with Kid, we will tell you not just his Pirate Legacy, but where you can go visit the Pirate Legacy, whether you want it from an easy chair with a good book or a good movie documentary, or whether you want to go actually visit the places where he was.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Before that, let's rewind several decades and find out about where he started.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Real quick, I call myself the Campy Traveler because I like the weird and wonderful, whimsical, isoteric things about travel.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I want to see the big stuff too, but I often fall down the rabbit hole of the other weird stuff.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, that's what we're about.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: So Captain Kid, unlucky or scapegoat or straight up sea hardened criminal.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter which camp you're in, Captain Kid's legacy is basically the blueprint of the golden age pirate.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone knows actually, I didn't know his name.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: They talk about him being super famous.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's super famous if you have knowledge of pirates.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: I live in a landlocked state.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Pirates weren't a thing other than like Goonies.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: But oddly enough, Captain Kidd was kind of the blueprint that movies like Goonies were based off of.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's yeah.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Still haven't seen Goonies.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm failing as a parent.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't work out very well.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so in part one, we're leaving the Hollywood and that image behind and talking about the real Captain Kid.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: He was a fatherless Scottish kid who clawed his way out of poverty to become one of Britain's most respected privateer captains.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a difference between a pirate and a privateer.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know I bungled my words, but that one actually was not a bungle.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Along the way, we're going to untangle a surprisingly blurry line between pirate and privateer, which is basically a sea deputy.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: The cops are right on it.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Survive mutiny, more than one mutiny, and defend the British colonies in the war.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So he actually did quite a lot.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Captain Kid built some fortune, has a family.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: He's exactly the kind of guy who has powerful friends that matter a lot.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: But in today's episode, Kid doesn't have anything at all.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't have wealth or influence or a royal commission, which is exactly what makes the next part so hard to believe.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: The deeper I dug into this research, the more that I found.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it got really long.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So many pages.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And believe me, I did cut out a lot.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: But this is going to be three parts.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And each part gets a little bit better.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is more the housekeeping and setting the stage.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: But again, we got romance and mutiny and murder all coming.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you're not alone if you've never heard of Captain William Kidd.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't heard of him, but you are definitely aware he is kind of there.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the thing, though, you know more about him than you think because he's basically the reason we tell pirate stories.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Mutiny, yeah.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Buried treasure, sure.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Murder, absolutely, and obviously.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the list goes on and on.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: There are entire bookshelves and movies built around this man's life, yet, Poetic Justice, honestly, because the man could not catch a break in life or in legacy, most people know the Blackbeard or Edward Teach of it on.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yo! That movie is good.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: That is a good movie.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: She has seen that one.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but have no idea these stories are riffing off the real life exploits of Captain Kidd.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: RPK.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so our story starts in right around 1645 in Scotland.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: 1645?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: 1645.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Up front, historians don't agree on the exact date of his birth or location, but being 400 years ago almost, we'll give it a pass.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Most land somewhere around 1645, either in Dundee or possibly Greenock, but both are not too very far apart in Scotland, and both are seaports.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, the fact that we even know that much is kind of remarkable because he was from a poor family, and those people usually are largely unnamed masses.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, his parents were John and Bessie.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Aren't they cute?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Bessie.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the alliteration is better, Bessie Butcher, which again is remarkable.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: We know her last name.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds like a fictional character.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Bessie Butcher.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Records from this far pack are patchy at best.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: And some sources say John was a Presbyterian minister.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Others say he was just a deck hand.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: The reality, he probably was a seafaring man with some sort of ministerial job, which is why we know as much about them as we do.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: But regardless, whichever he was, he actually passed away by the time Captain Kipp was five years old, which left the family and Bessie in dire straits because women can't own things back then.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, women can't own things can't really work.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: There's very specific and not highly thought-of work that women were able to do back then.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: And luckily for them, and because of the sea connections, this family was taken in.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're taken in by the Trinity House in Dundee, which was a maritime charity, which was set up by sea businesses to take care of their own.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: So this was specifically for maritime people, which is why it's most likely that he was a seaman and a sailor of some standing, because the really low man on the totem pole didn't get the same treatment.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it makes sense.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's probably what it was.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's almost certainly his ticket here.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this not only kept the family fed, but it also was Captain Kid's ticket into a fairly stable career as a seafaring person, a merchant or a sailor or whatever.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the way in.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Tradition says that kid's starting to learn the ropes as young as five, though that's shaky because that's also when his dad died.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's possible that he was going out with his dad when he was that young.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: But if he was actually an apprentice, that usually didn't happen until a little bit later.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: What we do know is that most boys went to sea somewhere between the ages of nine and fourteen.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: So five is a little bit young if you were.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a lot younger.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nine.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Nine young period.
• 9:36
  unknown: Okay.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but either way, he went to sea.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: And boys that went that young were either a cabin boy or an apprentice.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And believe it or not, there's actually a huge difference between the two.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: A cabin boy was essentially the cabin's personal assistant, no contract, no upfront money paid to the boy or the family.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And they were close proximity to the guy in charge.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds great, except it really wasn't money in there.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because a cabin boy had zero protection.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: The captain had no legal obligation to feed him or train him or even keep him.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: He could be abandoned at any port at any time should he incur the ire of the captain in some way.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: A bound apprentice, on the other hand, was under an actual contract.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: So there were a lot of protections here.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, because Captain Kidd, as the young boy, William Kidd and his widowed mother, had no Merrill lawyer to flipping over.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, no, they had no real standing.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: So they had probably understood the difference between these two things.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: But they, yeah, they got a place at the Trinity House, but they're basically wards of the state.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so the best that he could do when he went to sea was as a cabin boy.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: But he did pretty well.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And how many portions did you abandon that?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think he got abandoned at all.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Given what we know about the widow's finances in the 1600s and that Bessie was already relying on a charity, it's almost certain William didn't have the money for an apprenticeship because you had to pay in.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: He was almost certainly a cabin boy, probably closer to nine than 14.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And when he first went to sea.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And when they go to sea, this was months or years at a time.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very likely he never saw his mother or his sister.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: His sister?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he had a sister.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: From there, he had to earn every single rung on the ladder from the lowest of the low, like even below the bound apprentice, to climb his way to the top.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And he doesn't appear in any reliable records again until the 1680s.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a big chunk of time that we don't know about him.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: But what we do find out at that time is that he actually has been doing pretty well and is captaining a ship.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: A boy nobody was legally bound to protect, who had to earn everything himself with no family name to fall back on.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly the kind of man who's useful for powerful people right up until the moment that he's expendable.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Keep that in mind.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Keep that thought.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just put that, just keep that for later.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a very happy thought.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not a very happy thought, but he was determined and he did well.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So by the 1680s, he's an established and successful captain.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when he reappears into the record.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we go from cabin boy to captain, and we do know a little bit about that, and we'll get into that.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: So how does that happen?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Successful enough that by 1688, he's settled in New York, he's bought property, he worked his way into the upper crust of colonial society.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: He's still a little on the fringes at this point because Bachelor with no name doesn't get all the way in, but he's on the fringes there.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's just on the verge.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't stay settled for long, though.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: England and France are again at war.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they just kind of like, I don't know, they're like siblings.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: They just once again, deep into their centuries-long feud, genuinely that relationship alone could fill up more than one podcast, more than even the three that Captain Kidd's gonna anyway.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: The specific chapter playing out right now is the Nine Years War.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: And for a man with kids' connections and seafaring skill, a European war thousands of miles away turned into a very local opportunity.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: This the war that calls the revolution, because this war was the taxes, and then they're like, We're steadying up some dominoes still, but Kith has very little to do with the revolution, although he does get into the revolution here.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we'll get into the remote.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So here's a quick vocabulary lesson because the line's very thin.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Warfare and sea trade in general in this era operated under a certain anything goes logic.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Out of that logic came the office of a privateer.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, it's like a sea deputy, but it's kind of vigilante.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of not because you can act as a privateer and say, hey, I'm a privateer, and then act as a vigilante.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you got the Batman of it all, but you also have the official commission privateers.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: The Bat Bo.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: And at this point, this is this is Kid going the Batman route here.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: He does eventually become official, but we'll talk about that later.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, a privateer wasn't military exactly.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was sanctioned by the crown, unless you went the Batman route.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: In Kid's case, King William III, to hunt down merchant vessels.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: But we're kind of getting off track here.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're jumping ahead.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: So okay.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that sounds familiar, right?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds like piracy.
• 14:33
  unknown: Yeah.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: But because the crown sanctioned it, and because you working for your buddy, the crown, went and captured the merchant ships, you're actually disrupting supply lines and helping the war effort.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that is a privateer.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a very thin line because as long as you're only attacking the right ships and capturing the right ships and then turning over a large portion of what you capture to the British government, then you're all good with the British government.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you cross the line and start attacking everybody willy-nilly, or keep more of the treasure than is what is your fair share, then you've crossed the line into piracy.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Bro, you're setting them up to be pirates.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of are, especially since they would outfit them too.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: So here, have this ship and all this cutting-edge military stuff, but don't use it the wrong way.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's basically the pirate business model with government paperwork attached.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Privateers were technically supposed to hunt actual pirates too, but they were heavily incentivized to go after merchant ships because they want the money.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's easier.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's easier to capture the merchant ships, which meant the most for the British privateers, who, again, were not stupid.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: They spent a lot of time raiding French cargo ships and then chasing down dangerous, battle-hardened pirates.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: So they're gonna go after the soft ones.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, the Nine Years' War meant that the trade routes running from the Caribbean to both Britain and French colonies in the Caribbean suddenly needed protecting.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that is exactly what Kid found himself doing as a privateer in the British vessel in 1698.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Pin that blurry line for later, too.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Remember that.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got two little things going in here: privateer on the side, pirate on the other, but yet they're kind of doing the same thing.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Doing the same thing.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: With barely any daylight between them.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Six years from now, the entire jury is going to be asked to decide which side of that line Captain Kidd fell on.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: The answer is yes.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, spoiler, they won't exactly take their time with the answer.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Kid's road into privateering was not the standard one.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, the Batman route.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: An aspiring privateer and a ship captain would have powerful friends put him forward and help him in his commission and secure the paperwork.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Kid didn't go that route.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Kid's version events involved him serving on a French vessel in the Caribbean.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So he's down there in the Caribbean doing his thing on a French ship, which was common.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: When people were friendly, they didn't care where the skilled sailors came from.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: They just wanted them to be skilled sailors.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: So here he is on a vessel with French papers and paperwork as a British citizen.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then the Nine Years' War breaks out, and he and his fellow British sailors.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, they should have dropped him off the boat, but they saw an opportunity.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: So naturally, Kid, alongside fellow crewman Robert Culliford, Robert Culliford, keep Robert Culliford.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Staged a successful mutiny and seized the ship and brought it over into the British service.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: That really should have kicked these British guys off the minute the war broke out.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: I always look at the whole ship.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Kidd proved himself immediately helping defend the island of Nevis and gaining a reputation both for protecting English shipping and harassing French vessels and even successfully putting down a mutiny attempt against his own captain.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Where's Nevis?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Nevis is in the Caribbean.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is it by Cay?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it by the Saints?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'd have to look it up.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's an island because all the country's names have changed since then.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And this was a British port of Nevis, and it actually doesn't exist anymore.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's been burnt down to the ground.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: So sorry.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you guys know where Nevis is, let us know.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to know what island it's on.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Dozens of pages of research, and I don't know where Nevis is.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, he put down a mutiny against his own captain because when they took the ship, he didn't immediately go from crewman to captain.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: He protected the captain.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Details of that mutiny are thin, but the outcome isn't.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Kidd was promoted to captain his very own ship and crew that he had commandeered after he protected the captain.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And this was done by a vote.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So he was voted captain of this new ship, and the other captain went to a different ship.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And he renamed the vessel.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: The captain went on to a better ship, and he got to keep the French merchant ship.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And he renamed it the Blessed William.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the very first ship he named his own.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Blessed William.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: From cabin boy to captain the dream, right?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: For Kid, absolutely.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And for some men who'd risked their necks getting him there, not so much.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Robert Cullifrod, in particular, was not thrilled.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: He and the rest of the crew wanted to get paid, and they weren't picky about how.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: And this whole Batman thing of becoming war heroes, which is what Kid wanted as the pirate, as the captain, he wanted to be a war hero and useful.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: But that didn't pay as much as piracy.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: As long as Kid's ambitions kept the money flowing, they were willing to fall in line.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, Cullif himself cast a Culliford board himself cast the vote, putting Kid in the captain's chair.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: So for a while things were okay.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: With the Blessed William under his command and the Caribbean full of rich target, Kidd and his sailors sailed to the British colony of Nevis to report to Governor Cordington, which again, this is the Batman thing.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: They have a ship, but it's not really technically theirs, and they can't really technically be privateers because so he's sailing, he knows, he knows what's up, he understands it's politically smart-ish.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he knows he knows that the game needs to be played, but he again, no connections.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't know how to play this game adequately.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: He knows the rules the strategy.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the rules, that's a really good way to put it.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: He knows the rules, but not the strategies.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't know the behind-the-scenes connection stuff, but he knows that he's got to get on the right side of Governor Cordington.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, because whatever else he was, he was savvy and he wanted to stay firmly on the right side of the law.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, the timing worked out perfectly for everyone but the French.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Nevis was under serious threat.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: The French Navy was tearing through trade routes and hammering the colony directly, and Britain's own naval forces were stretched thin enough defending the shipping lanes elsewhere.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Cornington needed help, and Kidd showed up just in time to fill that role.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he armed the ship and proved a point.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Cornington struck a deal, put the blessed Williams 16 cannons to work defending Nevis, and Kid's crew could keep whatever they captured from the French.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: And Kidd delivered with a genuinely clever three-part strategy.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Shock and awe.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of waiting for the French to attack, Kid took the fight straight to the stronghold at and this is okay.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: French pronunciation has never been my friend.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: I apologize.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Marie Galant Galente?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Galant?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Galante, yeah.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: With Marie Galente.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that was the stronghold where the French were coming and going from.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Leveling that colony to the ground.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like the dirt.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he got well.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he he distorted enough that there was nothing there that the French could use.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Anymore.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: So basically their home base was gone.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing that he did was break the blockade.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: With Marie Gallant Khan, Kidd rallied the British fleet for a daring ship-to-ship engagement along Nevis's exposed leeward side.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: A fight the Navy hadn't dared attempt until Kidd essentially said, Hold my rum and let's go.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then he led the charge.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing he did was establish and hold the line that protected everything that they had fought to win.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: So once the French Federation broke, Kidd instituted regular, relentless patrols to make sure they were never able to regroup.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: So he is an honest hero here to Governor Cordington and the British because he did what the British Navy couldn't do.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: However, the bone peaked money, it worked.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Nevis was safe.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just wait.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: And this really was a moment you can watch the pendulum of Kid's luck start to swing, and it's high in his favor.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: From here on out, his story goes from boom to bust and boom and back again.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: And this is he's high on life right now.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Kid basked in his success for not very long.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Remember from the very start, Kid and his crew wanted two very different things.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: But they got a lot of money from that.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't because they destroyed the French ships.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't capturing merchant vessels.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was all navy and targets to do with war, which didn't have a bunch of golden spices and rich cloth.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: So kid's principles.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Kid wanted to operate strictly within the bounds of his legal commission.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: His crew wanted to get paid full stop.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Kid's principles were expensive.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: The Caribbean was full of Dutch and Spanish ships, and Kidd held both strictly off limits since both native nations were British allies.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that left French vessels the only legal target, which seriously limited their earning potential.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then even further, he was looking at military targets, not merchant targets.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted to do the war here at making it even thinner.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't just about money.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: The crew had none of the pay, protections, or perks of an actual naval commission, and they increasingly felt like Governor Cordington was using them as cheap disposable muscle to defend.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it does it.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: It would be actually a really great movie.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: They made a movie.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you when.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'll tell you.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now safe, and was completely off limits for them to profit.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: All of that risk, all of that blood, and almost nothing to show for it.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: In February 1690, tensions finally boiled over.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: While anchored near Nevis, Kid went ashore with a small group of trusted officers, leaving the blessed William under port and the watch of the rest of his crew.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Culliford and the other men had been waiting for this moment and still stinging over being passed over, and with real mutiny experience already under his belt, Culliford didn't have much trouble rallying support with Kid conveniently out of the picture.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the mutineer seized the ship almost effortlessly, and Kid's brief run as captain of the Blessed William was over.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: RP plus the only thing you can say is that they just essentially jacked the ship and sailed away.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it was stranded Kid without a ship, but he was in Nevis.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: He was close to the governor who loved him because he had done so much for him.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't really a hugely bad thing for Kid, and he did have some of the pay.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Culliford and the crew sailed north, plundering their way toward New York before eventually turning east to bigger prizes along the infamous pirate route.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk a little bit more about that.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: This was the trade route running through the Indian Ocean and the Mediterranean.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going from piracy in the Americas to piracy in the old world.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: File this under foreshadowing.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Trusted men turning on kid and the moment it benefits them.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: This will not be the last time this happens.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it will not be the friendliest betrayal either.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I kind of think it was the friendliest betrayal.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, we're God.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Losing the Blessed William was a genuine blow, but Kid had spent enough time building his reputation connections and bank account, but it wasn't fatal.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now remember, he's in Nevis, he's right near the government.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: If anything, this may have actually helped him.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: He was already a respected military hero.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And now, thanks to the very public betrayal of his crew, he was a sympathetic one too.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: His good deeds didn't go unrewarded, according to and yes, we're going to keep enjoying that name.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Let the newly shipless Captain Kidd choose his pick from the captured vessels.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I get the pick of the letter, pick of the litter.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I actually don't know how happy or sad he was about this because it doesn't really go into whether or not these ships were great, but he chose a new one.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: And he named this one the Antigua.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: And almost immediately.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: That means something in French.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is actually an island, I think.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Aruba Argentina.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Almost immediately he set sailing again.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: And as odds would have it, you guessed it, he headed north right along the same ways.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: He was colorful back.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so he's trying to chase down the blessed William.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, rumor had it, Kid and her crew of traders were headed towards New York.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly where we went.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And whether Kid was simply trying to get home, which he considered to be New York, or whether he wanted a rematch with Colourfirl.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll put my money and I'm petty.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: I said what I said.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: He set his own course for New York.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Worth pausing for a second.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Think about how impossible that search actually was.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: No radios, no way to track down ships across the ocean.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: The only real tools were rumor and guesswork.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's no shock that when kid finally reached New York, they they hadn't crossed paths at all.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was a bit of a shock that he sailed what he sailed straight into instead.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh oh.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And what he sailed for.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: But not really, because again, this is 1691.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we still have a few years before the actual revolution.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is one that you've heard of, but maybe hadn't heard of.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: In 1691, Kid sailed up the Hudson River and landed directly in the middle of Leicester's Rebellion.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: So Leicester's Rebellion is one of the several colonial uprisings of that period.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So again, we're setting the nominals, we're starting to flow.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: But Kid, and this is a plaque mark in my opinion.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't a loyalist to the colonies.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: He considered himself a true blue British guy and he wanted to climb the ring.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Stop it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: The blue blood.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Come on now.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: He was trying to climb the ranks into the nobility, the blue blood.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: So he he was loyal to Britain and he saw this uprising, and it was his duty to help get it.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about what Lester's rebellion was.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: The colonists were taking up arms against people they saw as illegitimate rulers, led by Jacob Lester.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: The rebels had seized Fort James, which is on the southern tip of Manhattan, and it was formerly called Fort Amsterdam.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: When they seized it, they had enough time to actually rename it.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's important.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, gotta rename it right away.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: And managed to hold it for two years.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: So almost because remember, he left in 1688.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now this is 1691.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: So this didn't happen very long after you left, and they've been holding it for nearly the whole time while he was gone.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, oh my beer, rum, rum.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: So Kid sailed into a city effectively held hostage by a man who declared himself governor over the whole region, Jacob Lester.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And his dreams of military glory kicked in again right back.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And he says, Not in my backyard.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Kid didn't act alone, but it was his strategy that made the difference and his experience that made the difference.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: So he's a strategic guy.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's smart.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's strategic, but he doesn't know the fire points of the political intrigue.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: I would think probably more Gryffindor because more action and not enough thought.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but Kid didn't act alone.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: His strategy made the difference.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: With Kid's input, British leaders devised a pincer, a land, a land force, held them in inside the fort so the rebels couldn't escape, while kids heavily armed antiqua sealed off escape by sea and started hammering away, trying to breach and get in.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was enough to convince Lester his cause was finished.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: The fort was recaptured in 1491 and Kid walked away the hero of the hour.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: New York welcomed him, welcomed him into high society like properly.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: He really wasn't the guy of the Skylers.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: He was up there with the Skylers, the lords and ladies, the duches and duchesses, the guys, the guys, the guys.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, the fort was captured.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Kid walked away a hero.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: He was gifted 150 pounds somewhere in the neighborhood of 40,000 to 45,000 today.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: 150 turns into 45,000.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it gets a little bit more bonkers than that.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Money's crazy because things were also a little bit less expensive.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: We try to track it with things like inflation.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: So the actual spending power was actually closer to about$100,000.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't have the numbers here in my brain.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: So okay.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: So there it is.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Captain Kid is now standing in the exact rooms shaking hands with the exact powerful men who will one day decide he's worth more to them dead than to be defended.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: He just doesn't know it yet.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, think about it.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're this, you're not an orphan.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: But if you only have a mom, you may as well be an orphan.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that was really rude.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: I apologize, but I said what I said.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I'm an orphan.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: What are you talking about?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: He returned to New York with better connections than ever.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where he meets Sarah Bradley Cox or Yeah, she's got a bunch of last names for a reason.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, she's is she the freaking Constance Hatchoway?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Although, although there was rumors that maybe she was Cosmo.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, but that's we're gonna leave things for today.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because trust me, that meeting changes everything.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: But we're gonna leave it there.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we're done.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Holding except for entertainment because he's got new region there.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh region, new region is cool.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, put a pocket in it.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: We'll figure it out.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Put it in the pocket.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: We'll figure it out next time.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: If today's episode has you itching to follow more about Captain Kidd and his footsteps in per person, here's a few places where you can go visit.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Dundee, Scotland.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I will put maps and links in the show notes.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: So just check below.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Dundee, Scotland.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Most historians believe this is where he was born.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: And there's still stuff along the waterfront and pirate maritime, not pirate, but maritime museums in that area.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you can kind of see what he would have been experiencing as a child.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Second is the McManus Dundee Art Museum and Gallery, which has a whole bunch of maritime stuff that's really cool to check out.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can see what would have been on the ships.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then the Trinity Church in New York.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now that doesn't sound like, you know, pirates.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, Captain Kidd actually invested in the building of this church.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's how upperpressed he was.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: So he helped to build this church with his money and his finances and Sarah, or sorry, I'm sorry, sorry, I'm just saying.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: He also has um several killer access to we're not starting rumors, but we're starting rumors.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: But no.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a couple houses he also lived in on Pearl Street in New York that are still standing from that time.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, Fort James, which is now Battery Park in New York City.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a really cool part to go visit.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where he had one of his greatest successes.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the Painted Hall and Old Royal Naval College in Greenwich, England, which is gorgeous.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the money, and we're going to get into it later, the money that was captured from Captain Kidd actually went into building this hall that was supposed to help injured British sailors, much like the one that he was raised in.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: But in the end, it was so pretty, and the artwork was so good, and the architecture for poor people actually is exactly what happened.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the painted hall was supposed to be the dining room for this charity house that injured sailors lived in.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: That the dining room actually became off limits to everybody except for the fancy witch people.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: They still got to live there.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: They just didn't get to go into the dining room.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Books and pop culture.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Traveling isn't your thing, it's okay.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Edgar Allan Poe and The Devil and Tom Walker by Washington Irving wrote books about him.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Both were published in the mid-1800s and did more than almost anything to cement the buried treasure version of Captain Kid and the legend in the American Imaginations, enough that real people went out with troubles looking for it.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: In colonial New England, treasure digging is genuinely Tom Sawyer's based off of like yeah, yeah, it gets in Tom Sawyer.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's all sorts of places where it's mentioned.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's it's all over the place, and real treasure digging was happening there.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, okay, I can't resist a good pop culture footnote.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Abbott and Post and Costello in Meet Captain Kid in 1952 did a movie, and the kid that kid was still famous enough in the 1950s to headline a slapstick comedy is wild to me, and I love it.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love Abbott and Costello, they're hilarious.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, both books with the synopsis and purchase links will be in the show notes.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: And these are advertisements, is just in case you want to go see it.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if you know where to get it, go get out.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know where to watch the Abbott and Costello meet Captain Kid, I would love to know where that is because I haven't been able to find it.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I do love Abbott because sincerely there's a vampire one that I just love.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, thank you so much for spending your time with us.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the first episode we've recorded that might not be the first episode we air.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: But if you like what you see, tell a friend, follow us, find us on our socials.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's all at the Campy Traveler.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: And join us next time.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, we'll be able to do these three in a row so you have to wait very long.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: His story is full with romance and scandal and his dream job and then betrayal.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then betrayal.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: All right, I think that we have everything.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're good.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Stay curious.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Stay curious.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.