Latest / Wildlife and Adventure Photography / Elephant conservation in Namibia with Rachel Harris - EHRA

Transcript

Elephant conservation in Namibia with Rachel Harris - EHRA · Wildlife and Adventure Photography

• 0:18
  > Graham>Okay, well, welcome to this podcast. Now, this is what I've been looking forward to, actually, for a little while, because I'm, with Rachel Harris, who, basically runs ERA Elephant Human Relations Aid in Namibia, which is one of the projects that I contribute to from, sales of artworks. So I'd like to contribute a lot more. So, once you've listened to the podcast, go and buy an artwork from me and, then we can support Rachel. But Rachel's come along to talk, a little bit about ERA and what they do and how you can get involved. So first of all, hi, Rachel, welcome.
• 0:53
  > Rachel Harris>Hi. Nice to see you again.
• 0:56
  > Graham>Okay. And we met in, 2019. At the end of 2019, I went to Namibia and did a project with E.R.A. ah, the very end of 2019 actually. And we, basically finished building a circular wall around the water tower to stop the elephants knocking it down, because it was sort of important for the local people so they could get water. and then we had a really good, few days tracking elephants in the wild. So that was my initial experience with error.
• 1:23
  > Graham>And I really love what they do.
• 1:24
  > Graham>So, Rachel, I'm going to hand over to you to maybe talk a little bit about what ERA does and perhaps as well how you got involved with it and talk, about how people can help. So over to you.
• 1:38
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah, thanks. Graham, then obviously you joined on our volunteer project, which has, been running since, in fact, since 2004. ERA has been registered since 2003 here in Namibia, as a not for gain, ngo, not for profit organization. And their volunteer trips, they started, happening.
• 2:02
  > Graham>Oops.
• 2:04
  > Rachel Harris>they started happening, really quickly after we were registered, actually. So I think it was already around yet mid 2024 that we were going every two weeks with volunteer groups. And at the time, volunteering, as a way to travel was a fairly new thing. You know, we were only one of a couple of projects, and, so we were just at the right time. So fairly soon we had, groups every two weeks, which was fantastic. Not necessarily lots of people, but, we'd always said we'd only take a maximum of 14, which is the same now.
• 2:38
  > Rachel Harris>So, yeah, so we got started and the main thing was, and why ERA exists is, like you say, it's all about helping people live with elephants.
• 2:47
  > Rachel Harris>So conserving elephants specifically, and mostly the desert elephants that we have here in Namibia, as well as other populations now that we've got to know over the years that we've been operating. But by to make sure that communities are happy with elephants. You know, if they're fine with elephants, the elephants are fine.
• 3:08
  > Rachel Harris>So living with an elephant can be a real pain, can cost you money, can be super dangerous, frightening, can put your life and your livelihoods at risk. So it sort of touches every area of your life that you probably don't get to. So what we've done as an organization is tried to look at different mitigation methods that basically address all of these issues. So in a sort of holistic way. What can we do that's practical to make it okay for you? So things like water is the biggest conflict area. So what you were doing was protecting a community's water point from elephants coming along and damaging it. And elephants like to drink nice clean water. They don't want dirty stuff that donkeys and goats have been drinking from.
• 3:57
  > Rachel Harris>So they will sniff out clean water sources, which often means they might then pull out pipes, knock over windmills or storage tanks to actually access then the clean water.
• 4:10
  > Rachel Harris>And people living in the area where we're working are living in a really subsistence way. I mean you saw everyone's still living in huts made from sticks and clay. So it's a subsistence lifestyle and you don't have running water. So these water points are of massive importance of.
• 4:28
  > Rachel Harris>So that's the main thing that we've been doing and the volunteer project has been integral in that the whole way through. I mean, you know, ERA was really born with the idea of having volunteers to get this work done. This was the most important thing that needed to happen. And what was interesting and why I should have perhaps started with that is that elephants weren't in these areas and they had been gone for you know, generations, nobody really knows where, but they had been hunted so bad, badly, and poached basically out of the area during the war for independence. So they'd gone. And in the period in between the previous when it was still apartheid times, actually the communal areas of Namibia, they'd been arranged into homelands for the different tribes that we have. And so Damara people had been moved into what was then called Damara land, the main area where we're still working. And they had been set up with man made water points and boreholes.
• 5:28
  > Rachel Harris>So it meant then when elephants returned to the area, which they did in the late 90s, they then came across people who hadn't lived with elephants before, who had water points mostly served by windmills, which were these very Delicate structures. and of course, there was loads of conflict.
• 5:45
  > Rachel Harris>People were terribly scared and, you know, rightfully so, not really willing to live with these elephants that they knew nothing about.
• 5:53
  > Rachel Harris>So that's then where the project started. And it developed over time. As we saw, that needs, you know, were changing or that we could do more, because we started really slowly, really, really slowly, with a very basic infrastructure and funding, which just came from the volunteer project. And then we saw that, okay, we need to add education to that, because people didn't know what to do when elephants came. Often were doing the wrong things, you know, shouting, screaming, throwing stones at elephants. There were beliefs that elephants want to eat you, that if they see you, they're going to kill you. and so we've done massive work actually, with our education project called the Peace Peace Project, to basically give people the info they need that they can feel like they can handle elephant visits.
• 6:42
  > Graham>So, yeah, because I was with you in 2019 when we were camped out doing the, building the, the wall around the water tower, we had a local family stop by and chat to us because they were going off for a walk. And I hadn't, understood until then that some people have an almost supernatural fear of elephants. It was almost like the boogeyman, because they can turn up out of nowhere and they can be very quiet. And for such large animals, you can. Come on, you, and I hadn't appreciated that level of fear around them until we're speaking to these people.
• 7:14
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah, definitely. And people have been killed by elephants. I mean, not, not a lot area, but they have been. And most likely, probably when the area where you were, it wasn't that long before, I think that somebody, you know, late at night was out and did bump into elephants.
• 7:27
  > Graham>Yeah, I think they'd known this person because we were talking about it.
• 7:31
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah. So that, you know, that is a reality of it.
• 7:34
  > Rachel Harris>So, that education is really important and we've extended that a bit now that we also have an elephant guard system where we have people from the local community who are the first point of contact in an elephant emergency. You know, it might be that there's, elephants visiting your farm and you don't feel like you can handle it, or you might have a vegetable garden that the elephant guard would then go and sleep over and actually then, you know, keep you guys safe. Especially when we see, elephants are, you know, going to farms where we know we've got vulnerable people living, old people on their own who might have vegetable gardens actually. so they're doing that. They'll fix up any damage that's done quickly if they get ah, able to and also extend with the training as well. So that's having a huge outreach. and I think that just makes people feel secure which is what they, what we all really need, isn't it? yeah. So we've been. So that's, that's those, those programs are brilliant. And then to look at the financial aspect we've been replacing, what most farms have now are these diesel pumps. But then it means you have to go to somewhere to get diesel and you don't have a car. You might have a donkey cart but you might not. and you may or may not have money. So if elephants come along and you know, drink all the water that you've pumped with the last bit of money, that's not really fair, you know, fair or funny, then you've got a problem then for your own livestock yourself and then that whole process has to start again of getting yourself to the town and getting money, you know, etc.
• 9:10
  > Rachel Harris>So that was really annoying everybody. So we've been replacing these were solar pumps.
• 9:16
  > Graham>Okay.
• 9:17
  > Rachel Harris>It's a no brainer. We've got loads of sun and you know that's been a big game changer because people suddenly see that the elephants have brought these pumps. You know, it's like a it's a trade off. So that's been really good I think PR for the elephants that they are providing some, some form of compensation if you like. Because to have free is just a fantastic thing, isn't it? So, yes, yeah. I've been doing these kind of, these kind of projects looking at all these different things and there's other stuff we're doing as well, like putting in elephant drinking dams away from villages to try and motivate elephants movements that they don't actually need to go, you know, within a village or within a school let's say.
• 10:01
  > Rachel Harris>so those are really good. And then.
• 10:03
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 10:03
  > Rachel Harris>And I guess now we've also stepped into the world of technology as we progress. So we've got elephants with satellite collars on, so we can see from our phones, from WhatsApp messages, where elephants are moving. we can also make geofences around farms and villages and hotspots if you like, that will give us an alert and say, you know, this one is crossed there and then these messages are then dispersed to the elephant guards and they then let the communities know the elephants in area. Or like I say, we can see.
• 10:36
  > Rachel Harris>Oh, gosh, he's going for that farm now with that veggie garden. Let's, you know, send an elephant guard there for the night because m. More than likely there'll be a problem.
• 10:45
  > Rachel Harris>so that's working perfectly, actually, and gives us a really good idea of, what elephants are moving around.
• 10:50
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah. And what they do. You make a lot of assumptions about what you think they do.
• 10:56
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:59
  > Rachel Harris>Sort of. In a nutshell, that's what we're up to. We also do schools, you know, partnerships locally as well.
• 11:05
  > Rachel Harris>we have environmental education now, for school kids in. Mostly in the area, but it will be extended to all of Namibia. And then we obviously do the elephant training within that as well. So that's one of our projects called the Seed Seed project, which is great too.
• 11:21
  > Graham>That's brilliant.
• 11:22
  > Graham>So, I mean, if people want to get involved in the volunteering. What. How do they do that? M.
• 11:31
  > Graham>Well, I'll let you answer that because I know how I got involved.
• 11:34
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah. So, I mean, you can just actually email us through the website. All the dates of the different departures are, on there. And I mean, we've had people signing up this week to come out now in November, so it's really easy to join on, even last minute. so, yeah, and the volunteer program then, as you said, it's two weeks, two weeks long.
• 11:55
  > Rachel Harris>the meeting point is here in Swakopmund, which is on the Skeleton Coast. Quite a sweet little town here where we're based.
• 12:01
  > Rachel Harris>And then we head out to camp, which is 250ks away. So you spend the first week doing a project like you did building a big old wall around a water point. And then you have a couple of days off over the weekend back in base camp before then heading out and tracking the elephants. and the patrols, I think, are the big selling point for a lot of people because it's really wild, isn't it? And sleep wild every night, sleep outside, it's cooking over the fire, learning about elephants.
• 12:29
  > Rachel Harris>and every patrol has got a different focus depending on what we need to happen. You know, there's different elephants that we're monitoring. and we're also starting some behavioral studies, vegetation studies as well. So, you know, it just depends on what our requirements are. but people love that. Yeah, really, some do as well. So it's been going for ages, but really it's. The recipe is just brilliant. It works so well.
• 12:55
  > Graham>People like ages and, you know, backgrounds all that sort of thing. Is it quite a varied group of people or.
• 13:02
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah, really varied. Yeah. It's. All the groups are always, you know, a mix of people between, you know, men and women, probably mostly women, I suppose. but not always as well. and a mix of younger and older people. We get plenty of people that are retired coming along. there's obviously still people, you know, students that are having a gap year coming out too. yeah, always. The groups are always mixed. So that's a really nice thing, actually. So it's sort of then suitable for everybody. You wouldn't probably be on your own with somebody not your same age. yeah, so that's great. And then we actually. We do quite a lot of other projects, like you've just done, Graham, the trek walking over 100km through the desert to raise money.
• 13:45
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 13:46
  > Rachel Harris>So if anyone likes hiking, and doesn't mind a little bit of the heat, because although we did it in September, which in theory is the cool months, it still had a couple of hot hours every day, didn't it?
• 13:56
  > Graham>We did, yeah. For sure. Yeah.
• 13:59
  > Graham>I'm pretty sure. One day I did drink six liters because I had, three liters on me, and I'd managed to drink three liters in the morning, and then I got through another three in the afternoon on one particular day.
• 14:12
  > Rachel Harris>M. Those are great weeks.
• 14:14
  > Rachel Harris>Well, I mean, I can't say because I wasn't walking this time, but doing the cooking and stuff is also, you know, quite a challenge for everybody. And camping set up. But that's a really nice week of, hiking and camaraderie, and that's exactly it.
• 14:28
  > Graham>Yeah. Because those of us doing the walk, we're all doing the same thing. We all hit at some point some sort of problem, even if it's just a lot of blisters you weren't expecting. But, you kind of bond as a group because you've got that shared experience and you're out in the wilderness. It's fantastic if you are. It's just a unique experience.
• 14:50
  > Rachel Harris>I think also on the volunteer trips, I mean, we get people that are coming back again and again and again. You know, there's one guy who was here just now. He was here already in March, and it's probably his eighth time that he's been here. He just loves it. Brought his brother along this time, so that was, you know, fantastic to see, you know, that kind of return. and I think people really make, you know, amazing relationships and friends with people. We've had Lots of marriages going on through it.
• 15:15
  > Rachel Harris>And also on the trek we had a couple, didn't we, that met on the. So, yeah, a lot of like minded people coming together. you know, if you're interested in conservation, I think it's a, a really nice way to travel. And then we also, we have other trips. There's All Women expeditions which we've just finished. slightly less intense on the hiking.
• 15:39
  > Rachel Harris>and Yeah, and then we have family volunteering in August. Those are great trips as well if people got younger kids.
• 15:48
  > Rachel Harris>really fun like adventure and survival stuff for the kids and working at a local schools for a few days before going out to the elephants. yeah, and we have schools that come over as well and universities. So there's quite a lot of ways to actually engage with us. And we have nice campsites if you're just here on holiday and a nice information center that people can come and visit too.
• 16:09
  > Graham>So yeah, the information center is amazing because that wasn't there when I was with you before. And in fact the camp, the base camp where I was, that was sort of different because that had to be. You had to rebuild somebody, didn't you?
• 16:23
  > Rachel Harris>M. Yeah. Straight after Covid, we had a huge, freak flood through our camp which basically washed most of our belongings, including a car and trailer down the river. And we had just finished this education center. and that also got totally, not totally destroyed. It's not true. Not totally destroyed, but pretty, pretty well damaged that we had to kind of start from scratch. So yeah, all of that is now up and running again. We're back on our feet.
• 16:51
  > Rachel Harris>and yeah, the information center is open to tourists, but it's also there for an educational resource for the peace project participants, the adults that come to learn about elephants, and also the kids that are coming through on the environmental education program.
• 17:06
  > Rachel Harris>and as you say, we've got a couple of great campsites. So if people are even just coming to Nimbia on a, on a holiday, then yeah, welcome to drop in and see the center or even camp with us if they're on a camping holiday.
• 17:17
  > Graham>Yeah, well the base camp is great to camp because you sleep well out in the open if it's, if it's dry, there are tents if you, if it isn't, but you've got shower and all the other sort of facilities there, if you want.
• 17:28
  > Graham>But also you're sleeping out by the river which has been dry, the times I've Been there.
• 17:37
  > Graham>Well, it was actually muddy on one occasion because I think there'd been quite a lot of rain the week before. Is it's mostly because it's sort of a highway, isn't it, that, ah, that river most when it's dry.
• 17:46
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah, yeah. The, the elephants, or the desert population that we have, you know, they're really using these ephemeral river systems, you know, just walking up and down basically, and then, you know, feeding from the big Anna trees as they're going along.
• 18:01
  > Rachel Harris>so, yeah, so the, base camp has got a wonderful platform in it, hasn't it, in the tree.
• 18:07
  > Rachel Harris>So if the elephants come past, it's quite nice because you're up high and up safe. That's a wonderful thing if you're lucky enough to get them coming through there.
• 18:17
  > Graham>But when I was volunteering in 20, 2019, they actually came in, we could see them up, on the bend in the river where it then goes out of sight and they gradually came down and they drank from, I think it's called. Was it this swimming pool or. I don't know what it was, but it was anyways like a pool there. It's full of tadpoles and things.
• 18:34
  > Graham>But.
• 18:40
  > Graham>So we were just very quietly watching them and they were. I can't remember how long they were there for, but 20, 30 minutes, something like that. And then they wandered off down the river. So we just had an amazing experience of them coming right into the camp.
• 18:54
  > Rachel Harris>No, it's very special if you get to see them like that. Really wonderful. Oh yeah, yeah, really nice. Yeah, yeah, we're lucky.
• 19:01
  > Graham>So, in terms of.
• 19:04
  > Graham>So just go back to my questions here.
• 19:10
  > Graham>what sort of achievement? What are the achievements that you're most proud of that, era's, you know, managed to do in the time that you've been involved?
• 19:20
  > Rachel Harris>Well, I guess the biggest achievement has really been helping people accept elephants and having, you know, really huge amounts of people that are, now choosing to be tolerant over hatred, which I think is amazing. And so, and I think although the, specifically the desert elephants, they're having a tough time, you know, we're in a drought now, you know. Although if you're a tourist, you might not really notice it so much. But, you know, in terms of vegetation, it's hard on the elephants and they're, you know, we've got high calf mortality, really bad. we've had a few elephants have been sick recently. one just died yesterday. So, you know, there's, there's that was actually the leader of the herd as well. So they're having a tough time. So it's not that, I can sit here and say we've had a huge impact on their population, but I think if we weren't here, it would have been even worse. And I think, you know, the whole aim of ERA is really to try and address this unbalance between humans and, wildlife. You know, we, we were living, you know, as one, and this got totally messed up basically, you know, by, you know, colonialists coming in here and stuffing up, which was, you know, a fantastically working ecosystem previously.
• 20:42
  > Rachel Harris>So I think, you know, for era, we're really trying to re. Put that balance back into nature and like, be able to leave one day and stop working and know that we have, you know, created an environment where people are able to handle living with elephants again and that we're not needed. You know, that, that is, that is the main aim of era, it's to sort of run ourselves to the point where we're redundant and actually everyone can handle it themselves.
• 21:10
  > Rachel Harris>So, yeah, so I'm. I think we've made a huge difference in a lot of people's lives and definitely in the conservation, of elephants and indeed the, status of the elephants, to make sure that, you know, the government and decision makers understand how valuable these elephants are and how few are left. at the beginning, it took a long time to, convince, you know, decision makers that, you know, this population of elephants, they might be moving around, but it's the same ones, you know, it's not different elephants. And unfortunately, hunting is still a, reality here, although that hasn't happened on the desert elephants for a long time. and again, I think that's down to, that's down to our figures.
• 21:55
  > Rachel Harris>And I think that's another, big achievement is that we have, you know, got a great relationship with the government and that our information is being taken as the, you know, the accurate data on these elephants. So I think, yeah, those things for me are probably the most important. and we have lots of challenges still because, you know, elephants are moving all the time and doing different things and then you're faced with another problem. So a few years ago during COVID they went on to commercial farms, so that led us now onto these commercial farms. But these are massive challenges then, where, you know, elephants aren't just, causing some damage to a water hole, they're then getting, you know, into a farm which has expensive cattle or game inside, breaking really expensive fences and you Know, the infrastructure and damage, you know, financial, pressure is massive on these farmers. And obviously these farmers have guns and they are protecting what they've spent a lot of money on. So, this is a challenge. And that's led us to a new, corridor project, which is where the technology comes in. looking at electric fencing and how to sort of find a way for these elephants to navigate through commercial farmland to the communal land without getting shot or causing anyone any damage or financial problems. So, there's a lot still to do, Graham. Yeah, but, yeah, but I think we've done. We've done great. And, yeah, it's nice to see how the organization has grown and. Yeah, really proud of it.
• 23:27
  > Graham>Yeah, quite rightly, I think. And one of the things I remember from 2019, was, I can't remember if it was you, but somebody was saying that, I think they'd had to kill an elephant because some. It was actually, I think this person being killed and the government wanted an elephant to be shot.
• 23:41
  > Graham>So it actually turned out. Being an older male that, you know, was kind of past his cell by a little bit. He actually hadn't been the one responsible. But, someone made the comment that local people were talking about their elephants and there was the ownership of the local people. Suddenly they're. They're their elephants. And that, to me, it just struck me that was major shift. And. Yeah, important one.
• 24:07
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah, and, yeah, that's talking about this elephant that was famous called fortrekker. And he was like, yeah, of the, elephants coming back into the area. And it was shocking that he got shot.
• 24:19
  > Rachel Harris>Like he was a tourism, attraction.
• 24:22
  > Rachel Harris>And for sure, you know, the communities and conservancies were earning money from him being around. And yes, he was older, but he was still, you know, in his prime.
• 24:32
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah, one of the only breeding bulls.
• 24:35
  > Rachel Harris>And yeah, there was no excuse for them to have shot him.
• 24:38
  > Rachel Harris>It was. It was disgusting, to be honest.
• 24:40
  > Rachel Harris>And. But quite rightly so, although it didn't stop the hunt taking place, the, communities had written letters saying they didn't want him hunted. So that was different because they recognized that, you know, these elephants are providing them with employment because there's tourism opportunities around, there's solar pumps coming in. We're pumping loads of money into local schools.
• 25:05
  > Rachel Harris>You know, there's a big benefit for having these elephants around. More so than having them dead and just having some meat. You know, people will actually eat, elephants, of course. And, yeah, that's just, I think just long term. Yeah, the attitude towards the elephants is, has changed and. Yeah, and like I said, you know, people are tolerant and see value in having them.
• 25:26
  > Graham>So. Yeah, yeah.
• 25:28
  > Graham>So the final thing I was thinking of was how do people help? So we've spoken about volunteering in treks, but there are other things as well, aren't there, that people can do if they're perhaps not able to go to Namibia. You can sponsor an elephant. You're doing those kind of things.
• 25:42
  > Graham>Or.
• 25:43
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah, you can adopt an elephant online.
• 25:46
  > Rachel Harris>if you go to the website again, there's a big button that says adopt an elephant and you can read all about. I think there's like 10 or 12, elephants on there that are available to adopt. So you can read about their different personalities.
• 25:58
  > Rachel Harris>You know, it's all history because We've been here 20 years. We, we know each and every elephant and we know their family tree. so, yeah, it's been quite a nice exercise writing that up and sort of presenting these different personalities. And, yeah, you can speak to see who resonates with you and adopt those ones. So that's£50 for a year's adoption and then you get a certificate and an info pack and photos and then an update once a year.
• 26:25
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 26:25
  > Rachel Harris>So, yes, they can do that. Yeah. And we're also registered as a charity in the uk.
• 26:31
  > Rachel Harris>it's easy to donate through the website as well, if people want to do that. And you can also say if there's a particular project that you like that you'd like your money to go towards.
• 26:40
  > Graham>Okay, yeah, that's great. I mean, obviously I recommend it. I, certainly wouldn't have gone back for a long walk if I didn't. Yeah, but it is a whole, you know, if you do the volunteering and I m. Think for other people as well, if you're not up to some of the more physical work, it's not a big deal. You just do what you're capable of.
• 26:58
  > Graham>And,
• 26:59
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah, because it's about enjoying it. Yes, exactly. And you. And, I mean, like I say, there's lots of retired people that come and do the, volunteer project. And, you know, the idea is to work as a team so you don't have to lift the heavy stuff if you can't do it. There's loads of smaller jobs and next year we actually want to start a shorter, trip which would be more focused on learning about elephants and tracking skills. So still going out and doing wild camping, but with less of the intense, work. But there's a Lot of people who have volunteered who I think really get into learning about elephants because they're so fascinating.
• 27:35
  > Rachel Harris>Like I said, we're going to start these behavioral studies as well.
• 27:38
  > Rachel Harris>So, I think that would be combined as a, as a shorter, a shorter trip that people can do, which would be mostly vehicle based.
• 27:45
  > Graham>Yeah. And they are amazing because they're a keystone species. So, you know, their absence or presence has a huge impact on, not only the plants, but the animals that are in the area as well. So.
• 27:58
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah, yeah, down to the little beetles living off the dung. Yeah, they're really important to be there. Yeah. So it's just a case of trying to. Yeah. Keep them there. And the desert elephants are interesting because there's other elephants close by and they don't come into these very far west, areas of the riverbeds.
• 28:17
  > Rachel Harris>That's just the, desert elephants that do. So, you know, if they're not there, there won't be any other ones coming in.
• 28:24
  > Graham>Right. Yeah.
• 28:25
  > Rachel Harris>That's why there really is such a big, important on protecting these guys because if they're gone, that will be it. Which is, you know, sad, like you say, for the ecosystem. They're needed. So, yeah, we keep trying, do our best.
• 28:41
  > Graham>Yeah. Well, brilliant. Well, thanks very much, Rachel.
• 28:44
  > Graham>Is there anything else you'd like to add before we disappear?
• 28:49
  > Rachel Harris>No, I don't think so. You've obviously got the details of the website and yeah, I'll put that.
• 28:53
  > Graham>In the link in the information for the podcast.
• 28:56
  > Graham>So anyone who is interested can just jump on and have a look at, what Rachel's team are doing and, get involved.
• 29:03
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah. And also, yeah, maybe also put in the social media. It's hashtag iranamibia is Facebook and Instagram. Because we're really, good on the social media and I think that gives everyone a good idea of what's happening at any point in time here. And if you are interested in volunteering, you'll see some good videos and feedback on their. Give you an idea.
• 29:25
  > Graham>Fantastic. All right, well, thanks, Rachel and good to have you get this together.
• 29:32
  > Rachel Harris>Yeah. See you out here next time.
• 29:35
  > Graham>Yeah, I'm gonna do such a long walk. It was, I think, what was it, 105 or 106 we finished up doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Thanks, Rachel.
• 29:53
  > Graham>Thanks everyone for listening. I'll talk to you in the next podcast. So bye for now.
• 29:59
  > Graham>Just before I go, I wanted to remind you that first, of all I have an offer running, with my free download. So if you Go onto the website and there's a link at the bottom of the description of this particular podcast. And that will take you to a link, to where you can give me your email. I will send you, a PDF, which is 10 Simple Steps to improve your photography today. So it includes the kind of things that I talk about in the podcast. So it's all there in black and white with some examples.
• 30:29
  > Graham>You can see what's going on. And also remember I offer, online photography courses. I do fine art. If you haven't checked out my galleries, please do. The links are again below the description of the podcast. And don't forget to help me out. So you're welcome to subscribe both to the podcast and you can become a member of my Patreon membership and, join me there. So in that membership you get, access to me, and also you get advance notice of things that are coming up. I'll tell you about other things that are going on that I don't share in my Facebook group or on Instagram or anywhere else, really. So it is, just a membership where, if you like what I do and you just want to be a part of it, the subscriptions are really low. It's just a couple of a cup of coffee a month. So, how much better could I be than that? So please take a look and, I'll speak to you in the next podcast. So bye for now.