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The Feminism of K-Pop · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Never told you protection of iHeartRadio. Annie.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Can we talk about boy bands and girl bands? Are
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: you ready for this?
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I hope so I think you will be ready. But
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: as a precursor, we talked about boy bands in the
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: US and what was your favorite boy band?
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess it was Backstreet Boys. I didn't really
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I didn't get as caught up in all of that.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: You were a little younger for that.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like the most of the music I listened
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: to at a young age, like the first CD I
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: bought this, Jimmy World, Green Day and the Phantom Menace soundcheck.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Like if that gives you any.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: So you were cool. You were one of the cool kids.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: I was not cool.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: No, but I think it like the you know, Ancinc
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Versus Backstreet Boys, right debate? I was on the Backstreet
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Boys side.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, So you have been with my older sister, which
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: is really funny because typically the older generation goes with
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: the older people who got into the boy band would
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: probably say Backstreet Boys. And I do mean like, my
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: sister was in the era of new kids on the block,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: and I was too and I really did like them,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: but I was super young for that. But yeah, I
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: was an n Sync fan. I was in high school
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: when Enzync came out, like right before I think it
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: was right as I was graduating. But I really enjoyed
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: that music more so than Backstreet Boys. I am team
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: in Sync, I will say that for myself, but I
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: really enjoy a good like pop band. Because one of
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: the first CDs outside of No Doubt for me was
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Spice Girls and I back then, of course I was
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: embarrassed because I really wanted to read the person besas Yeah,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I definitely only listened to Green Day and Bush and
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: all that, and of course I loved No Doubt, but
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: like saying Spice Girls was like, oh, keep that under wraps.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: We're gonna keep that under wraps. But now we all
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: know they are a delight and we still we celebrate
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: them today as you should. I feel like the gen
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: z ers understand and have kind of come back to
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: love them as they should. So I'm a fan. I'm
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: a fan, so of course, being that when I've been
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: listening to K pop recently, I know everybody knows my
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: new obsessions I have, Like, yeah, I enjoy this Okay,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: let's talk about this. And because I've been wanting to
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: talk about this and I've been geeking out about it,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: We're going to do this topic and I'm forcing you
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: into this, and it's long and it is somewhat dark
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: of a subject. So let's go ahead and put a
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: content warning. Y'all. We are going to talk about eating disorders, abuse,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: and suicide in this conversation. If you know much about
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: K pop, I have a feeling you know about that
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: as well, so we can't ignore that. I sit you
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: some homework. You did it down because this has been
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: in the making for a while, but it's a huge
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: outline that be a huge one. So what do you
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: know about K pop?
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I know that people love it, uh and it has
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of fans. Most of what I know is
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: through you and our shared friend Marissa, who had I
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: told you a lot of the videos you sent me
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: she had shown me before. I actually think we were
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: together when that happened. I feel like vaguely we were.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Oh she didn't watch the videos videos?
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I think the majority of the videos that
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: we watched were BTS because she, yeah, and her mom
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: are BTS fans. Hey, Marissa, because there was another K
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: pop group who was made up of all women who
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: actually are like kind of queer icons. I love them,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: called Mama Moo. They were here and there was an
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: opportunity for someone to go and I don't go to
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: shows because I'm like, I'm too old, I don't want
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: to stand up. I don't I can't deal with this.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I don't want to deal with traffic. I sent a
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Marissa a message and she was like, I don't know
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  Speaker 2: who that is. So I think she's she kind of
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: leans into the BTS world, which is perfectly understandable because
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: they are kind of what you think of when you
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: think of K pop now, and we're going to talk
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: a little bit about them. But she she knows, she knows,
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  Speaker 2: and her mom apparently knows a lot.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah to a concert. I love that, La Yeah, I
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: love that.
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  Speaker 2: I love all about that. So we are That's what
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  Speaker 2: we're talking about today is K pop, and we are
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  Speaker 2: talking about how it's influencing internationally, and because the majority
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  Speaker 2: of fans are women, when we're talking about the impact
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  Speaker 2: they have and the implications, we are talking about it
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  Speaker 2: in the perspective of influencing more women and girls than
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: anything else. So even though you may be like, why
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: is this about feminism, this is why. And when you
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: hear about the topics, especially in the dark topics, it's
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: something to remember. So we're gonna go with the history
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: and definitions because that's what we do so and we
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: have a lot of them. I did cut them down
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: because I'm like, this is unnecessary. This is unnecessary because
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know why. I just love the unfacts of
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: it all, I guess. But the history of kpop idols
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: is much older and more complicated than I had thought.
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  Speaker 2: So we were going to take a look at the
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: background of K pop and the world around it before
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: we do anything else. And I think before we start,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: we need a quick overview of the definitions related to
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: K pop. Keep this in mind as we go through
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: the ins and outs of kpop because we're probably gonna
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: be referencing it or talking about it, and it's international
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: growth and popularity, so worse to know. And these are
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: the definitions we're giving you are exactly off of these pages.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: So we're giving you the reference now from Hello to
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: how you dot com and StyleCaster dot com. So they're
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: direct definitions. So pretend like we put quotes in all
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: of these okay so starting simply with k pop, which
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: this one came out of the Merriam Webster is popular
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  Speaker 2: music originating in South Korea and encompassing a variety of
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  Speaker 2: styles aka Korean pop music.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Paul you the hunkle or Korean language term for the
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Korean wave, literally meaning the flow of Korea. This term
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: refers to the increase in worldwide popularity of South Korean
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  Speaker 1: media since the end of the twentieth century. Idle a
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: word used for K pop stars. Idols can be soloists
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: or members of a group, but the word is often
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: used to a K pop artist who has debuted and
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: is no longer a trainee and an entertainment agency trainee.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Before K pop artists are idols, and more on that later,
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  Speaker 1: they're trainees. Trainees are students at K pop entertainment companies
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  Speaker 1: who have either auditioned or been scouted, who spend several
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: years training in dancing and singing before they debut as
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: a soloist or as part of a group. Along with
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: singing and dancing, many trainee programs also include lessons in
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  Speaker 1: languages such as Korean. If the trainee is an already
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: fluent English and Japanese.
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  Speaker 2: Right, So, the word debut is often used in K
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  Speaker 2: pop to refer to a trainee who has transitioned to
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  Speaker 2: an idol by releasing their first official single, either as
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  Speaker 2: a solo or in a group, or performing in public
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: for the first time. Then there's the Big Three. The
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Big Three refers to the three big entertainment companies that
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: have launched the most successful acts and believed have majorly
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  Speaker 2: influenced K pop, which are SM Entertainment, which has groups
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: like Girls Generation, Super Junior, Shine, JYP Entertainment, which has
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: twice Wonder Girls and miss A and Stray Kids more recently,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: and then YG Entertainment and a side note, you might
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: be wondering why this would be of interest in the
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: K pop industry. These three labels control a lot of
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  Speaker 2: the content, the publicity, and even the popularity of individuals
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  Speaker 2: and groups, and are almost as famous as some of
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  Speaker 2: their groups wow.
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  Speaker 1: And within the groups which often have several members BTSs
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  Speaker 1: seven groups like Exo have up to twelve members and
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  Speaker 1: one group had twenty one members, there are specific roles
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  Speaker 1: and titles given to them and in groups sometimes referred
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  Speaker 1: to as idle groups, which is a band of two
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: or more performers that perform or record and essentially live together.
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  Speaker 1: Each member takes on a persona and a role within
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  Speaker 1: the group. Depending on the size, there can be a leader,
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  Speaker 1: main lead and sub vocalist, main lead and sub rappers,
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  Speaker 1: main and lead dancers, visuals including the face of the
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  Speaker 1: group in the center and the mock name.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so with that, let's talk about the fan base
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  Speaker 2: and the words we hear in regards to fans or
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: anti fans within the group. There's lovers and haters, and
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  Speaker 2: there are specific terms for different groups of people in
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  Speaker 2: the K pop world, and we'll start with Fangirls are
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: fanboys which we talked about in our Fangirls episode before,
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  Speaker 2: So fangirl or a fanboy. These terms can be used
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  Speaker 2: as nouns to describe someone who expresses strong passionate feelings
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  Speaker 2: passionate about K pop or K drama, especially in regards
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  Speaker 2: to their biases and favorite groups. As a verb of
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  Speaker 2: fanboying and fangirling are usually demonstrated uncontrollable physical and emotional
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: freakouts in reaction to scene, hearing, touching, or smelling a
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  Speaker 2: bias or favorite group. That is really specific, anti fans,
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  Speaker 2: so anti or an anti fan is someone who hates
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  Speaker 2: a specific idol or group. Some antis will go out
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  Speaker 2: of their way to discredit the idol they hate by
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  Speaker 2: creating fake rumors or finding evidence that diminishes an idol's talent,
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  Speaker 2: so they put just as much energy as a fan, essentially,
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  Speaker 2: but to ruin them. There's also saysungs, which refers to
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  Speaker 2: fans who have crossed the line and are closer to stalkers.
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  Speaker 2: These are fans who invade idols privacies or make them
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  Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable or unsafe in some way.
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  Speaker 1: Then there's bias, a fan's absolute favorite actor or idol,
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  Speaker 1: whom they will fiercely support and keep track of no
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  Speaker 1: matter what content they produce. Fans pick one bias from
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  Speaker 1: their favorite group and usually only have one bias at
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  Speaker 1: a time. Bias ruiner or a wrecker an actor or
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  Speaker 1: idol who is revealed in a new light or newly
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  Speaker 1: enters the scene, altogether making a fan question their devotion
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  Speaker 1: to their original bias. So there are some of the
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: depth definitions you might need to know as we talk
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: about the K pop industry and the people who love
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: or love to hate it and its effect on international
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  Speaker 1: audiences and society.
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  Speaker 2: So as we look at the history of K pop,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: but it might be surprising to know that the idea
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: of Korean popular music and idols have been around for
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: a long time. Some of the earliest ideas can be
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: found in the nineteen thirties with the Jagori Sisters who
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: debuted in nineteen thirty nine and the first idols to
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: go abroad and had performances featured on shows like The
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Ed Sullivan Show not once but twenty two times. Was
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: again Sisters who laid down the basis of K pop music,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: and there were several more groups that would come along
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  Speaker 2: until the eighties, made up of mostly sister groups. Surprisingly,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: so in the eighties and nineties we had what you
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: would consider the boy or girl groups we see today
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: with performances that were accompanied by fancy choreography and the
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: nineties incorporating rap into the music.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Which brings us to what is known as the first
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: generation of idols and K pop groups. Here's a quote
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  Speaker 1: from Lafilm dot Edu about the first generation. Once the
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: K pop stardom recipe was discovered, genre bending music attracted performers,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: fawless appearances, and intricate choreography. The first generation of K
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: pop stars Ushered in Hot, is considered to be the
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  Speaker 1: first true K pop idol group because the group was
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: highly manufactured and made up of trained pop stars. They
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: released the song Candy in nineteen ninety seven and it
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: would become a bubblegum pop hit in Korea and the
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: information according to Wikipedia says the first generation idol groups
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: are usually groups of approximately five people, each of whom
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: divided their roles into lead vocal, sub vocal, dancer, and
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  Speaker 1: rapper While singing on stage. Their synchronous choreography, known as
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: group dance, was more sophisticated compared to previous dance music,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: but at the same time included point choreography that teenagers
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: could easily imitate. Musical performances were done only for two
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: or three songs in the album, the title song and
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: follow up song, and these songs were produced with music
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: videos that showed each member's characteristics. After several months of performing,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: the singers took a break and resumed their career with
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: their next album. This system became the basis for the
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: second and third generation idols. The first generation did have
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of controversy. The same Wikipedia page rights. First
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: generation idols lost popularity in the two thousands. They often
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: lip synced as they performed, with a focus on choreography,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: and most of the audience recognized that the songs heavily
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: relied on digital techniques to correct the vocals of the
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: idle singers. As a result, many people began to question
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  Speaker 1: the authenticity and competency of the singers. In addition, a
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: series of controversies had erupted in contracts with idle members
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: and adjustment of profits, and the idle training system relied
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: on terrestrial broadcasting while the music market was being converted
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: into digital centers.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so the second generation is y two K. After
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: the decline of the first generation, the agencies tried some
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: new ways, and many of those new ways were ways
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  Speaker 2: to make money quote. The second generation idol groups usually
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: consisted of six or more members, formed a group in
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: a group called a unit, and they ran group and
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: unit activities at the same time. The agencies tried to
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: manage their aisle groups more thoroughly than the first generations.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: To prevent those problems, they regularly evaluated trainees singing and
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: dancing abilities and ended contracts with trainees if their abilities
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: did not improve or were significantly inferior. They also put
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: on emphasis on personality and dismissed trainers whose behavior was controversial.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: And though the major entertainment companies had already been established,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: it was at this point the Big three were highlighted,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: and they are still the top money makers in the
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: K pop realm. The beginning of you could also be
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: attributed to this generation, largely in part due to the
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: beginning of social media outlets like Twitter and Within the
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: second generation, there were two categories. Here's the quote from
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: creatrip dot com. The second generation idols were divided into
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: two categories. There were the record idols and music idols.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Items with a large fandom and low mainstream popularity were
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: labeled as record idols. In idols with a relatively smaller
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: fandom but large mainstream popularity were labeled as music idols.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: In Korea, male idols were usually record idols and female
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: idols were music idols, regardless of which category they belonged to.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: It seemed certain that the second generation idols were loved
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: by most Koreans overall.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: So then we come to what many of the non
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: K pop diehards may know more about, which is the
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: third generation idols, which does include BTS and Black Pink,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: and for me, Exo, who kicked off the new generation
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: with their hit Growl Again. This is my first true
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: introduction to what I know as K pop now, and
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: though there isn't as much distinction between second and third generation,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: the massive usage of social media at this point helped
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: the international interest in kpop, with groups being featured through
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: content on YouTube and navor v, which I think is
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: a Korean thing, companies pushed a more personal look at
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: the different groups. Here's a quote from that Wikipedia page
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: we would talked about earlier. The idol groups marketing strategy
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: had become more diverse due to social media, which has
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: led to the emergency of unprocessed, self produced content on
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: sites such as YouTube, Africa TV, and v app rather
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: than through TV programs. Idle members also began to post
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: on social networking services to get closer to their fans.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: In terms of planning the quote. Localization strategy expanded not
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: only through releasing albums in different countries or performing in
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: different languages, but by including foreign, non Korean members directly
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: into groups. So also of note, we are seeing more
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: groups writing and producing their own music. In this generation
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: so BTS has been credited with producing and writing their
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: own music for a chunk of it, which has been
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: a criticism from the previous generations of kpop.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: And to add to all of that, entertainment companies capitalized
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: on the love of fans. They started selling merchandise including
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: photo cards, fan events, the usage of competitive reality shows
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: that have you invested before a group is even formed,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: or if that's what they want you to think anyway.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: They also understood the importance of the female gaze with
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: groups like Mama Moo and Red Velvet. They have utilized
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: the idea of girl crushes, which they might do through
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: things like attire, like many will wear suits and tuxes.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: As one girl group said, their idea is quote to
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: be girls seen from a girl's gaze. And as the
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: fourth generation is rolling out, we are seeing more and
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: more follow suit.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: And yeah, that was actually something that we don't talk
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: about into this, but I will say a lot of
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: the articles talk about how sexuality really has nothing to
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: do with it. Oftentimes you will see if you see
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: a gay man or a gay uh men, they love
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: the women groups as much as cis hetero women do.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: And then a lot of the gay women or lesbians
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: love the male groups as much as uh cissetero groups do,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: so it's kind of like it doesn't matter. They just
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: love who they love. It's kind of interesting to see
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: because they do and they don't play the masculine and
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: feminine roles as much in K pop. You'll see that
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: they're a little more for especially when it comes to
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: like male groups, it does seem like they're a little
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: more effeminatee to some Some like they're very pretty. It's
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: und how pretty they are, but so are the women.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: They're very pretty. So that brings us to the newest generation,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: the fourth generation. Here's what Nocturnal dot com has to
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: say about the newest generation. Any group who made their
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: debut in twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen was considered to
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: be a part of the current fourth generation. The fourth
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: generation shows kpop at an unprecedented skill that we have
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: never seen before. Groups are debuting and immediately gaining millions
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: of followers on music videos and going on showcase tours
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: around the world. And the article continues within the influx
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: of new groups and the lack of boy bands and
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: girl bands in the West. Since notable acts like one
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Direction and fifth harmony. K pop has been able to
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: take over and found a new sense of popularity throughout
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: the global pandemic. Something that differentiates K pop from the
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: typical teenage pop group is the amount of time and
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: production that goes into it. Some idol groups like Straight
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Kids in seventeen are also labeled as self producing because
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: they take part in writing, producing, mixing, choreographing, and doing
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: many other things. These all rounder groups are ensuring that
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: they cement a place for themselves globally and need to
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: be recognized for their hard work and legitimate artistry instead
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: of just a teenage craze. So they're trying to make
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: it more legit as kids, as the kids would say.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so it is interesting to note all of
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: that as well as the fact social media like TikTok
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: has really picked up even more so the popularity of
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: K pop groups because not only do they have dance
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: challenges and like more and more interaction fans are able
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: to produce fan content things like fan cams where they
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: just literally find their bias as we talked about, and
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: then do a collage essentially a montage for these people,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: but it really they do a great job. I will
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: say they do an amazing job. I will also say
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I believe in the second generation, fans were called canons
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: because they carried around professional cameras to shows. Oh yeah,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: and they made like they made incredible photographs of their
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: favorite fans. It was interesting, like the it is so
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: professional is absurd, but the fans were the ones that
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: doing it, and they were carrying a lot thousands of
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: dollars camera us to these shows.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: How times have changed?
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: They how times have changed? Although I have seen people
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: competing with their phones and talking about how they do
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: better of filming. Quite funny. But here's another quote from
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: NPR about the fourth generation. The last generation of K
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: pop stars are no longer bound by borders. They can
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: debut or train outside of South Korea and become just
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: as or even more successful in the West than they
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: are back home. They also continue to expand upon K
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: pop's constant musical experimentation. And actually that was one of
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: the some of the articles that I've seen that they
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: no longer are catering to Korean fans, that it is
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: all about catering to international fans, and a lot of
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Korean fans feel like this is leaving them out because
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: more and more K pop people are doing songs in English,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: songs in Japanese, all of these things. So the question
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: is who is this actually for and is the origins changing?
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Right? Well, if you're thinking, well this sounds fun, how
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: do I become idol? Here's the process according to ninety
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: day Korean dot Com.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Which is a great program by the way of learning Korean.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Not a sponsor, but I do use them.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Not a current sponsor. Not a current sponsor, So you
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: must first audition. Many of the stories we see if
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: K pop idols begin with auditioning for different companies and
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: studios or k pop college. Many companies who feed directly
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: to the major entertainment companies, and there are many different
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: schools and studios with hopeful beginners, some auditioning at the
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: age of ten. And you don't even need to be
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: a current resident of Korea or even Korean. Look at
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Lisa from Blackpink, who is from Thailand. Second, all right,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: if you've passed the audition, you become a trainee. At
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: this point you are trained with a purpose and intensity.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Not only will you learn to sing and dance, you
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: may be taught how to act. You must take different
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: language courses, English and Japanese, and it's during this time
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: you are under scrutiny not only for your talents, but
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: for your looks, and are constantly evaluated physically and based
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: on your talent. Stories of young trainees being weighted twice
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: a day and being heavily restricted with their food intake,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: and even getting suggested to have plastic surgery if they
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: don't have a specific look. These are stories that we've heard,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: and refusing can result in being cut. Interestingly, in Korea,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: mail instructors are not allowed to tell the ladies that
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: they need to lose weight or placed restrictions on them
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: by law, and plastic surgery is seen as just a
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: regular thing. Here's a quote from Wes. One of the
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: most well known methods of transforming teenagers into pop stars
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: in Korea is with plastic surgery. In Korea, there's no
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: stigma attached to having your face changed to better your
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: public image. The first most important thing is their appearance,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: says Kim Mansuk, a former master trainer with YG who
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: now runs his own training center, sand Factory. If a
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: girl has a bad face and a good body, the
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: problem can be fixed with plastic surgery. He says matter
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: of factly. Often a hopeful star will get a loan
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: from a label for fifty percent of the costs of
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: the surgery, but she'll have to pay it back.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: It's also during this time you are most likely placed
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: in a specific position in a group and are then
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: assigned to train and live with this newly formed group,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: and strict rules are implemented, including dating bands, which may
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: follow even after a debut and rise in popularity. According
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: to that ninety Day Korean article quote, while the South
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Korean idol hopefuls are in training, they are expected to
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: maintain the same polished image once they have debuted as
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: a part of the idol group. They should hold at
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: least basic etiquette and media training, but most importantly stay
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: out of trouble, namely dating and drinking scandals. Although luckily
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: for idols, the industry is changing to allow a little
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: more freedom with dating in some regards just not right
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: as they debut. There may also be some pressure to
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: maintain a certain weight in some companies. There is I
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: don't know why they said they may because there is
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: point blank. However, as rigorous as a trainee system may seem,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: trainees also get some freedom. It is still totally okay
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: to have social media accounts and use them as they wish,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: of course, while keeping up with a positive image. They
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: could also work in commercials and music videos, modeling gigs,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: and sometimes even act in dramas or movies while in training.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: And then for a selected few we get to the debut.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: According to Wes, the number is very small. Quote out
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: of all the teens who train, it's difficult to say
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: who will make it, though it's certain that few will
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: move on to the big time pop scene. Kim says
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: that of his two hundred students, only about fifteen will
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: be signed with one of the three major labels, and
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: he says girls have a better chance than boys. Girls
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: tend to want to be k pop stars more and
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: with a bigger market for girls. He says, of course,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons that girls may be more likely
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: to make it may have something to do with the
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: mandate for a military service required for all Korean men,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: who have to serve for two years between the ages
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: of eighteen to thirty five, which was recently changed from
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: eighteen to twenty eight due to the success of BTS,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: and there are currently two members of BTS serving the
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: required time. Also, there is no real timeline for a
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: trainee to train. Some may train for years and some
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: for only a few months. And according to kpoplife dot
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: com quote, once a trainee has been deemed ready, they
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: are then given the opportunity to debut as part of
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: a K pop group. The debut process involves the creation
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: of a new group and the selection of members who
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: will make up the group. The selection process is highly competitive,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: with only a handful of trainees being selected to debut.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: The newly formed group then begins the process of preparing
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: for their debut, which includes recording their first album and
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: rehearsing for their first performance.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Right, so, now that we have the fundamentals of K pop,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: let's talk about the people who love them. And the
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: audience is vast and diverse and has had different rates
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: of growth all over the world. So we're going to
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: break it down. The K pop has been around for
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: decades now. The international popularity is fairly new, probably a
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: couple of decades, but you know, still fairly new. It'scoring
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: to where you're from, even in the Asian countries, but
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: the popularity has spread vastly. According to reports, the biggest
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: fan groups of kpop actually are outside of Korea, with
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: China having the highest number of fans. But I know,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: at one point when there was this whole conversation, because
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: uh there was the skirmish between China and Korea, the
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Chinese government banned capop for a little while, so I
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: don't know how that affected anything. But according to Billboard
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: dot Com, as of twenty nineteen, the Korean Foundation has
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: tracked at least a ninety nine point three million fans
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: across the globe who are associated with Korean entertainment related
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: fan club and at least seventy two million are based
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: in Asia. Now, according to a more recent report breakdown,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: the numbers are like this, eighty four point three million
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: how you fan in China, sixteen point eight million in Thailand,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: thirteen point three million in Vietnam, thirteen point two in Europe.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: And these numbers is from twenty twenty, with a report
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: showing a thirty seven percent increase last year, so most
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: likely higher now, So obviously that ninety nine point three
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: is low. It is I think I saw around one
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million, if not more, probably way more so.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Finding statistics for North America was a bit difficult, but
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: according to one report from Korean dot net, when it
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: comes to HOLLYU altogether, in twenty twenty two, the US,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: along with Canada and Argentina had the highest increase in popularity,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: with a whopping one hundred two percent increase from fourteen
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: point six million to twenty eight point nine million fans,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: and a majority of the increase is thanks mostly to
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: K pop. According to another survey done on Reddit, many
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: of the respondents were from North America and they made
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: up fifty two percent of the fandom. Again, Reddit maybe
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: more of a US thing, though, I don't know, Yeah,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: so that might be why.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Well you can see I read It episode for more
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: about that, which needs to be updated actually probably, And
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: the majority of fans do seem to be women, holding
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: it around seventy or more percent, with the average age
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: around twenty three to twenty four years old. According to
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: the Reddit survey we mentioned, forty percent of the respondents
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: were in the age range of twenty five to thirty four,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: and not surprisingly, it is those with more disposable incomes
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: that make up a large part of the growing industries.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Conventions like k Coon, which according to their site, is
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: quote the world's largest fans celebration of Korean culture and music.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: We launched our flagship Los Angeles event in twenty twelve,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: expanded to New York in twenty fifteen, and have since
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: created events in Japan, Thailand, Mexico, Australia, UAE, Saudi Arabia
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: and more. Welcoming one point for a million fans span
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: thirty three events in twelve regions, and it had around
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: nine hundred thousand attendees last year and has brought more
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: in person experiences and experiences in general for all of
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: these fans, with the average age of the attendee being
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: in their mid twenties, and it possibly is because of
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: the locations that we just listed, but the attendees are
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: predominantly not Korean, and though the age range does keep
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: it at at more younger adult side, the fans over
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: thirty are committed and at the aforementioned convention there was
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: even a panel titled the Secret Lives of K pop
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Fans over thirty. Fan groups who often labeled themselves as
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: ajumas sort of translated as missus ma'am or anti are
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: their own form of anties. One group from the Philippines
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: called themselves the titas of BTS and as bands like BTS,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: who are still a favorite around the world age the
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: fans age with them right.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Of course. The origins of K pop is based in
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: South Korea. In the times of no internet and going analog,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: the fans relationship was different. According to one report, at
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: the start of the generation of K pop idols, fans
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: even had access to home addresses and locations, and everybody
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: thought this was normal. It was during this generation that
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: color representation for each group became a thing like, you know,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I think army BTS are purple. So they that began
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: in the first generation also chanting names of their favorite idols,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: and deep seated rivalries between fandoms formed uh and during
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: this time, idols who are not liked were not only bullied,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: but sent death threats and sometimes unpleasant gifts like dead mice, razors,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: blood and a good deal of that was often sent
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: to women who may have been rumored to date another
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: male idol, and not surprisingly, this was most isolated to
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: the Korean community because it was typically local during the
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: first generation, and those who could be considered say songs
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: and anti fans have been around for a while as well.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Their presence have put idols and fans on edge. Stories
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: have come out about the intensity of the love or
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: hate of both fans and anti fans. Idols have been stalked, threatened,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: and even physically harmed. Different stories like one idol being
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: poisoned with super glue in his drink, causing him to
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: be hospitalized while at a show and performing. And then
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: there's a more recent one of a BTS member being
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: sent food delivered food because they found his address and
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: him being threatened on social media to the point that
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: other members docks the person who threatened him interestingly enough,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: and reasons may vary, such as the dating rumors we
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: talked about, as well as just being in a group
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: that they may feel as a rivalry to their favorite groups.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Say songs who love their idols a bit too much
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: have also made many of the nervous even threatened. Incidents
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: of stalking to the point of causing a car chase
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: slash car wrecks, to ripping off of clothes to fans
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: sending messages in menstrual blood have been brought up to
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: point out the level of toxicity that the fandoms can have.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Here's a quote from a Wrappler Dot com article talking
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: about the ugly side of fantom Ashshells and Katie, the
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: host of Spill Thesoji podcast, have been fans of K
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: pop groups since two thousand and six. Throughout there more
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: than a decade of following idol groups, they've witnessed several
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: instances of celebrities being put into harmful situations because of
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: their fans. The list includes calling the idol's personal phone numbers,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: hacking their social media accounts, stalking their idols, group overcrowding
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: at airports, and in more extreme instances, camping outside their idols'
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: dorms or houses, installing secret cameras, placing recording or tracking
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: devices at hotels or in cars, sending disturbing gifts or
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: fan letters. A female fan reportedly sent a love note
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: written in menstrual blood to Ok Taysion, a member of
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: K pop group two PM, and even attempting to kidnap them.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: SNSD's Kim Tajuan was dragged away in the middle of
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: a performance by an obsessed fan, Although it should be
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: noted here that there are more fans who often stand
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: to protect their idols. Here's another quote from that Rappler article,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: and it's about how the fans will go to that
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: for their faves. Generally, fans would strongly voice out their
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: opinions and call out whoever needs to be called out
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: across several social media platforms. Ash said they would also
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: mass email the company for investigation or legal action against
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: the perpetrators. Usually there is a unity against unhealthy behavior,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: but there are instances when the opinion is divided because
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: of differences in perspectives. For as active a community as
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: celebrity fandoms, issues tend to circulate fast, with every fan
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: chiming in with their opinion, But when it comes to
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: keeping their idols safe, Rhes said that the majority still
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: know when to put their foot down.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: But it isn't just that the fan bases try to
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: protect their favorite fans, but they also will do what
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: is needed to protect society as a whole. Instances of
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: fandoms like the BTS Army, overtaking racists and sexist hashtags
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: dominated during heated times, such as the movement for the
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Black Lives Matter and shutting down of websites that are
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: seen as oppressive, or even registering for hundreds of thousands
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: of tickets to Trump rallies. So it would be empty.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: So here's a quote from the Washington Post article about
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: the power of K pop fans in American politics, and so.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: K pop fans have emerged as empowered, socially conscious, globally minded,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: LGBTQ friendly, and attentive to issues of racism and discrimination
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: because in their multi ethnic countries such as the United States,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: fans are often ethnic minorities themselves. Social media has accelerated
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: existing fan dynamics and made them global. Twitter has given
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: fans around the world a chance to observe effective online
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: campaign tactics, all of which can be applied to causes
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: beyond K pop. Now, Digital narratives congregate on Twitter, TikTok,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: and Twitch, expanding the arena of K pop fandom. As
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: the Black Lives Matter movement generated massive attention after the
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: death of George Floyd in Minneapolis police custody. K pop
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: fans on Twitter, acting on their own but inspired by
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: the advice groups such as BTS to speak their own truth,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: began changing their screen names to reflect their support of BLM.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Shared appeals to donate to beilfunds or show up for
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: March's appeared back to back with links to K pop
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: media and photos evincing thirst's desire for the attractive young stars.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Now that these fans have flexed and the world has
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: seen their power, the real question is what campaign and
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: goals will they choose next.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: But that brings us to the conversation of how different
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: fan groups are treated so total transparency, we know that
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: racism within K pop culture is very present. Though there
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: is a sizeable number of fans from the black community,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: the level of treatment for these fans from the other
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: fan members or even from the idols themselves, are not equal.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Stories of mistreatment and abused by black kpop fans are common.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: In fact, there are stories coming out about black fans
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: being docked within the fandoms. A Refinery twenty nine article
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: called when Black K pop fans are Terrorized Online? Who
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Listens describes different instances about looking into this about when
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: fans have been harassed, threatened, and doxed. They write, K
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: pop has long reference to black music, fashion, language, and
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: beauty when done with innovation and talent. This quality has
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: won many groups black fans. But while the majority of
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: K pop musicians and fans do it respectfully, some prefer
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: to strip black people from black culture. This disrespectful appropriation
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: has contributed to an unjust sense of ownership. Anyone who
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: disagrees is overly sensitive and thus is a fair target
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: for abuse. Among stand communities, there is an appropriation to
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: abuse use pipeline. According to May Santiago, a PhD candidate
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: and cultural studies who notes that racist language, online harassment,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: and cyberbulling is all perceived to be an extension of
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: how devoted a stand is to the object of their fascination.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Their chosen media figure is God and they're the disciples.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: If anyone dares question the integrity of such iconography, all
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: bets are off, she said. This is particularly hateful when
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: a critical user is black or brown. Under this warped logic,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: any criticism comes from a malevolent place. So, even though
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: black fans have been instrumental in helping their idols learn
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: and evolve when it comes to cultural appropriation, some stands
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: consider these learning moments to be insulting, an offense worthy
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: of punishment.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: A and that article continues, it says in a study
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: conducted by The Fighting Stripes in twenty twenty, a site
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: founded in twenty twelve to give Korean Americans a platform
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: to talk about what they love ninety three point six
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: percent of the participants reported feeling as though black capepop
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: fans tend to receive more backlash for calling out instances
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: of cultural appropriation within kpop and were more likely to
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: be threatened with doxing. That's consistent with the rest of
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: the Internet, where black women are disproportionately vulnerable to online harassment,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: which we've talked about at length, including with Bridget and
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: it's not gotten much better. Many black capop fans are
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: seeking safe spaces for themselves as many continue to deal
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: with these types of harassment. In another article from Girls
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: United dot Essence dot com, they write, there is no
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: denying that non black fandom spaces can be racist at times,
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: with black fans having called out digital racial violence over
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: the years. In July twenty twenty one, black fans of
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Inhypen were attacked on social media for saying that the
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: member he sung allegedly mouthed the N word while listening
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: to Sizza's Love Glory. The majority of the abuse that
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: took place on Weavers, an app where fans can connect
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: with their favorite capop artists. Black engens experienced so much
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: stress and racist abuse that a protective account the Black
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Engine Protection Team was formed to monitor and report any
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: anti blackness, and there have been allegations of idols being
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: racist as well. One idol was accused of purposely ignoring
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: his black fans, while others have been caught using derogatory
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: terms as we kind of mentioned above, although some try
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: to excuse it as ignorance. I do have opinions about this,
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: but let's be honest here, a chunk of the idols
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: have been either born or raised outside of South Korea.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: If not, their producers, managers and execs should be able
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: to educate them before they go internationally. I do have
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: a lot of that. We do know that there are
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: two specific terms for I and me and you that
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: sound close to that word as well, so there's a
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: little bit like backlash if you're ignorant of those words.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot to be said about this controversy.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: And yes, I do remember the mouthing the rap not
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: realizing what they were saying, but again that's just an
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: excuse and that needs to be corrected point blank. And
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: oftentimes it seems that there is very little repercussions for
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: racist incidents. In fact, it seems dating and partying is
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: seen as more of a problem by industry standards than
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: being racist.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: And this also leads to the problematic use of black culture.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Just recently, one girl group has been heavily criticized for
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: their usage of black hair styles such as box braids
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: and almost caricture level outfits that are reminiscent of nineties
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: hip hop, even warranting a slapping face emoji from hip
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: hop star Anderson Pack, which once again has brought up
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: the topic of the constant cultural appropriation from key pop
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: groups and idols.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: So there are many articles asking the repeated question why
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: do they continue to use black culture and styles but
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: continue to not give credit or respect to the black community. Also,
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: I would ask who is allowed this again and not
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: vetting these things as twenty twenty three, you're aware enough
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: to put Black Lives Matter posts out, but aren't not
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: aware enough that taking credit or trying to make money
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: off of culture without understanding it? I mean, what are
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: you doing?
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Accusations from black producers, writers, choreographers and so many others
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: of not being compensated or not even being credited has
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: been rampant in the industry. In a Guardian article, they
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: write about a specific incident sm Entertainment is one of
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: South Korea's three largest entertainment companies. It is credited with
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: producing the first K pop idol group Hot in nineteen
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: ninety six, which establishes the SM performance style that the
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: brand still employs today, a combination of impressive visuals, dance, rock, rap,
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: and hip hop that took inspiration from Black American artist
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: of the MTV generation. Songwriter and producer Micah Powell attended
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: six SM songwriting camps between twenty fifteen and twenty eighteen.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: At one camp, he wrote a song called Devil and
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: created a dance move to go with it, which he
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: then showed to SM executives. The entire staff lit up,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Powell says of their reaction. Devil became the lead single
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: of SM group Super Junior's twenty fifteen album of the
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: same name. When Powell watched the music video for Devil
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: for the first time, he was shocked to see that
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: his dance move, a hip tap and high clap combination,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: have been used as part of the song's chorus without
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: his permission, without credit or compensation. Powell's background vocals on
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: the track had also been used without payment or credit.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Right and they did the bare minimum and after a
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: lot of backlash. Again we talked about the top three,
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: this is one of them their billion dollar company. So
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: the constant usage of black community's content has brought division
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: in K pop fandom, making the black K pop fans
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: feel more isolated. Stans who excuse artists by using the
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: term appreciation instead of appropriation allows room for continued ignorance
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: within the industry. There are fans who have taken action,
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: including using blackout tactics and calling for boycotts among some
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: groups who continuously abuse the appreciation slash appropriation, but has
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: also led to the harassment of those fans as we
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, and there have been groups who have taken
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: steps to correct these actions. Groups like BTS, who've been
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: outright in their usage of black culture and their music,
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: has taken steps to undo some of their past mistakes,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: as well as groups like p One Harmony who have
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: openly acknowledged the role of AAVE in their music. In
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: the interview in the US, leader Kio addresses the issue openly, saying, quote,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: I believe is a responsibility, and I also feel like
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: if you're going to have that big of a platform,
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: you need to be able to respect and appreciate all
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: cultures without appropriating them. He continues, whenever it comes to
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: our styling or music or whatever, it's always a sensitive
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: topic that we always have to think once, three times,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: four times about in every step of the way visually
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: or musically or the language itself. That while other ONEH
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: members not in agreement, obviously there's aave and a whole
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: bunch of other cultural stuff that is very sensitive and
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: so we need to respect that. And I feel like
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: it's a responsibility too. So I feel like it's something
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: that we are always thinking about and taking action about.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: And hopefully more groups, more and more groups will start
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: putting an effort in learning the difference of appropriation and appreciation.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: But again, currently we're not seeing in it across the board.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and while we look at the not so good
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: side of kpop, we have to talk about other controversies
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: within the industry, including the many scandals that have affected
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: the groups and have some people even saying to boycott
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: the industry altogether. So we've talked about the unrealistic beauty
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: standards we often see in South Korea, whether it's weight,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: skin color, or overall appearance, and for the K pop stars,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: it's even worse stories of trainees being told to only
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: eat rice, or their diets being so restrictive that other
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: members sneak food in for them. It's a big concern.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Many of the fan sites not only give details like
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: birth dates and signs, but they will give height and
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: weight for many of them. And though everybody is different,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: it is disheartening to see a young woman who may
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: be five foot seven weighing ninety five pounds and being
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: called chubby are not meeting the standard of the music industry.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: In a research paper about the effects of K pop
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: idols on Korean beauty standards, they say this about the
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: dieting culture. Another way K beauty standards can be harmful
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: is they can lead to extreme dieting, which leads to
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: other outcomes like poor health, depression, and eating disorders. Since
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: the slim body is a part of the standard, idols
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: may be forced to a diet that causes them to
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: lose an unhealthy amount of weight in a short period
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: of time, which is usually before a new song or
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: album is released. In an Insider interview with the kpop
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: group Great Guys, member j Rung says that they quote
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: don't have much time for eating and aren't free to
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: eat what they want.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: And with this type of damaging influence, it has made
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: an impact in Korean culture. Here's a quote from another
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: article written for the waveclinic dot com. For several years,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: media outlets have reported that many young artists have left
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: behind the kpop world in order to focus on eating
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: disorder treatment. Jenny of the popular eight member girl band
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: Oh My Girl have bravely discussed her year long treatment
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: for an eating disorder, and they continue. The extreme diet
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: and beauty ideals that have some cultural underpintings are without
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: a doubt harmful to both the K pop stars and
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: also to the tween and teen girls who eagerly followed them.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Restricting and extreme dieting, cosmetic surgery, and an obsession with
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: the perfect look have been synonymous with the South Korean
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: music industry. Here are some disturbing statistics from South Korea.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: According to the Korea Jungang Daily, the number of teens
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: suffering from eating disorders in recent years has shot up significantly.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: According to the Health Insurance Review and Assessment Service earlier
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: this month, the number of patients that have visited a
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: hospital due to anorexia and nervosa increased by thirty percent
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: over five years, from six hundred and sixty one people
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen to twenty two hundred and one people
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one. In twenty twenty one, one six
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: hundred and forty eight or seventy five percent were women,
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: with teenagers taking up the majority with twenty five percent
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: or four hundred and eighteen for the past five years,
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: excluding seniors in their seventies and above. Female teenagers or
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: the largest group that were treated for anorexia and their
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: story starts with a young girl wanting to be like
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: an idol, so she starts herself to achieve the same look.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: And of course, it is important to acknowledge that the
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: overall beauty standards, not only in South Korea, but in
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: countries like the US as well, have just as much
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: influence on the cap popter culture as does K pop
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: culture does on the overall beauty standards, so it's vice versa.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: It affects both of us, both of them and the fans.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: When fans are anti, fans feel like they're able to
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: comment on what they deem as attractive or unattractive and
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: use this as a way to harass and bully and idol.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: They reinforce the almost impossible standard as if it should
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: be the norm.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: And these types of bullying have been lethal. Different stars
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: and idols have died by suicide after being relentlessly harassed
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: and bullied, as well as being depressed and unhappy due
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: to their careers, and unfortunately, the level of standards that
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: often push idols too far is correlated with the unreal expectations.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: In another article specifically talking about mental health and kpop
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: from mindlessmag dot com, they write Sully from FX passes
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: away at age twenty five. She had been suffering from
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: panic disorder and social phobia, so it speculated that it
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: was through suicide, mainly because she was one idol who
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: was going against the norm, which led to cyber bullying.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: She was one to openly discuss mental health, dating bands,
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: social issues and such. To add to that, apparently her
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: attire was not appropriate and this all built up over
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: the years and she could not take it anymore. It
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: is said that South Korea holds the highest rate in suicide,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: whether attempted or not, and this mainly occurs due to
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: the overly high and even unachievable standards the environment that
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: the Koreans live in. Government figures show that suicide is
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: amongst the top cause of death for those under forty
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: in age range where life demands a lot for those
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: living there.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: Right, the k pop and Korean celebrity industry have had
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: to acknowledge the level of need to address the issues
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: that have been stigmatized for so long. In the semp
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: dot Com report, they write the Korea Creative Content Agency,
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: which supports pop culture artists, have reported that the number
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: receiving counseling rose from one hundred and forty six in
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty to six hundred and sixty one in twenty
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: twenty two. That figure relates just to those who admitted
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: to having counseling. Libung Chul, director of medical insurance policy
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: at the Korean Neuropsychiatric Association, said pop idols were often
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: isolated from support networks. They are completely lonely. It's impossible
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: for them to go to communicate and get some consolation.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Lee said. It is a very dangerous situation, and with
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: South Korea having the highest statistics when it comes to suicide,
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: the government has realized that they needed to step in.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Here's another quote from the same SEMP article, which was
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: written in twenty twenty three. Recently, South Korea's Ministry of
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Health and Welfare announced a plan last month aimed at
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: reducing the suicide rate by thirty percent by twenty twenty seven.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: The five year plan includes more frequent mental health examinations,
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: better counseling services for victims of crime, and improved care
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: for those who've attempted suicide. There are no details released
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: on how much money will be allocated. The Korean Suicide
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: Prevention Center, funded and run by the government, will also
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: provide counseling and treatments for vulnerable individuals, and the government
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: will fund medical expenses starting this year. South Korean Prime
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Minister hendoksu said during a conference on suicide prevention in April.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: In twenty twenty one alone, there were about thirteen thousand
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: people who took their own lives. It's really unfortunate. It
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: is the nation's first responsibility to prodict lives.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: And much like society everywhere, Korea's attitude toward mental health
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: is typically not one talked about. Oftentimes it's treated as
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: if it is an inconvenience or a fleeting stage. It
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: is very quickly dismissed and typically ignored until it's too late. However, recently,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: more and more idols have opened up and talked about
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: their own mental health diagnosis and the importance of seeking help.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Groups like BTS and GOT seven have been openly talking
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: about their own struggles and trying to change the attitude
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: about mental health in society. A teen Vogue article talking
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: about K pop influence in mental health conversation rights In
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Asian communities, there's still a stigma about treating mental health issues.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Being depressed is since as a real problem, and some
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: Asians are very wary of being perceived negatively if they
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: do seek outside help. But the article goes on K
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: pop stars efforts to raise mental health awareness and the
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: empathy from global fans allows us to recognize that some
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: issues such as cyberspace bullying, problematic ideals of masculinity and
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: femininity misogyny are cross cultural, extending beyond national boundaries. This
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: is Juwon Park, a cultural anthropologist. The empathy and encouragement
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: from fans as a result could be a source of rejuvenation, passion,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: and energy. Music companies have also realized that mental health
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: is a global issue that having their idols speak about
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: mental health is not a minus to the business. The
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: transparency could create more engagement from the fan base.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: And there are other controversies outside the mental health including
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: sexual harassment within the industries, stories from different groups and
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: trainees of being abused and harassed by their own CEOs
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: and managers, and idols who've been caught filming an abusing
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: fans or other members. One big scandal, the Burning Sun scandal,
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: involving several celebrities and idols, were just recently sentenced and
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: caused a wave of backlash for the industry as a whole.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: Those involved were accused of rape, drug charges, illegally filming,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: and embezzlement. So much fallout occurred, including raids that would
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: lead to over five hundred arrests, that it was a
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: huge deal, and controversy over the overworking and underpayment of
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: idols have been recurring as well. Past incidents of idols
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: being underpaid or not even paid at all have many
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: questioning the ethicalness of the industry. Recently, Black Pin's Jenny
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: was seen performing with an IV after having to sit
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: out of a couple of performances due to COVID and
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: at the same time, at the same event, she had
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: to be rushed off the stage because she was not
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: doing well. The group has been touring non stop across
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: the world, and many wonder at what cost. Newer groups
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: like New Gene, who have just started, has brought to
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: light the same conversation about how young is too young
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: for someone to be an idol, and with acts like
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: New Gene and past controversy of another young idol, the
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Korean government has finally passed a policy in hopes to
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: address it. From an Insider article, it says, on Thursday,
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: a bill to protect the underage K pop idols from
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: exploitation was passed in South Korea. The Culture, Sports and
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: Tourism Committee of the National Assembly passed the Popular Culture
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: and Arts Industry and Development Act during a plenary session.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Per South Korean outlet, Yon Hop, also known as a
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: lesung E Crisis Prevention Act, the newly passed law aims
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: to prevent celebrities from suffering damages resulting from exploitative contracts
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: by reinforcing financial transparency. The act is named after singer Lee,
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: who was under a quote slave contract where he was
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: never paid for his music for over eighteen years of
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: his career. Per K pop News outlet Korea, Boo. The
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: amendment also reinforced requirements aimed at protecting the rights interest
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: of underage workers in the Korean entertainment industry by lowering
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: the number of working hours again per Jon Hopps, citing
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: the Committee.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: And a little more to explain what the amendment is quote.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: Under the new amendment, entertainers under the age of twelve
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: are allowed up to twenty five hours a week up
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: to six hours a day. Those aged twelve to fifteen
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: are allowed thirty hours a week, while those above the
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: age of fifteen can work thirty five hours a week.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: Both age groups are limited to seven hours a day.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: In addition, the act prohibits any infringement of underage entertainer's
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: rights to education by forcing them to be absent from
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: or drop out of school per Yon Help. The South
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Korean amendment also forbids any acts that may threaten the
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: health and safety of minors, which includes imposing an over
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: emphasis on physical appearance upon the children. Assaults, abusive language,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: and sexual harassment are among the other prohibitions listed in
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: the act. Pop culture and arts businesses are now mandated
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: to designate a per in charge of youth protection who
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: will help to guarantee the human rights of young entertainers.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: Er Yon Happ quote. This amendment will abolish the industry's
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: absurd practices behind the development of k content and provide
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: an environment where children and youth of pop culture artists
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: can pursue their dreams while protecting their human rights, said
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: Park Bogyin, the country's Minister of Culture, Sports and Tourism
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: per South Korea outlet mail business. But as the article
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: states later, many production companies find ways to bypass these laws,
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: so it will be interesting to see how this affects
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: touring as well.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: Right, and that does bug the question who was profiting
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: off all all this hard work. Unsurprisingly, the industry has
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: made a lot of money, over five billion dollars to
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: be specific, and that's probably underestimated. The big three, YGJYP
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: and SM have made a hefty profit, and controversial things
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: like dynamic pricing has only increased the amount. These capop
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: entertainment companies take ninety percent of the profit at the top,
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: and the KP pop artists split the rest of the
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: ten percent. So if there's like seven members and you
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: have what maybe a million dollars, but then you get
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: one million dollars to you know, like that's how or
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars and then you split it seven ways.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: Not a lot, to be honest, But some groups like
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: BTS have better deals, so they were able to get
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: stock shares from their label, which was a smaller label
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: at the time, but they've now made a lot of money,
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: which is now known as hibe or big hit earlier.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: But typically K pop stars are not that lucky, and
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: it's estimated that only five percent of the groups actually
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: go get beyond just idle status. Anyways, to that superstar era.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: And by the way, for the trainees, they technically don't
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: get paid. Instead they they're room and board and all
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: of that stuff is covered, so they calculate and say
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: they get fifty thousand dollars worth of things I guess
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: education worth, but all basusally, we heard earlier that they
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: had to pay their own plastic surgery and such. So
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: with all that, what does the feature of K pop
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: look like? There are many who speculate that K pop
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: may be plateauing at this point. Perhaps it's the oversaturation
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: of K pop groups, or the controversies that have come
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: with the industry, or even the loss of BTS, which
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: many filth is actually the reason. And I know there
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: aren't disbanding, they're on hiatus, they're still in contract and
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: they'll be back after the military services. And there are
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: a lot of individual projects that By the way, if
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: you've not listened to Augusty Jungi, you should because it's
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: really good and RM it's really good. He does something
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: with Anderson Pok and Erica Badou. You should go listen
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: to it. According to experts, there have been a slowdown
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: in the market, and one expert told NPR that BTS
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: may have set the bar too high. Here's a quote.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: The biggest influence of BTS is that they increase K
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: pop's dependency on the oversea market and made it truly
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: a part of the global popular music market, says the
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: Hutag and associate profess of George Bason University, Korea, who
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: has studied the globalization of K pop. And they transformed
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: the entire K pop industry in their wake. We raised
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: our bar so high, says music critic Kim Dehon about
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: expectations for K pop artists from both the industry and fans.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: An increasing number of K pop groups are going on
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: billbar charts and holding large scale concerts overseas at a
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: faster pace than BTS, but their achievements no longer received
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: the kind of nationwide attention and celebration that BTS did,
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: in a sign that success in the global market is
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: now almost anticipated of K pop idols. Yeah, but some
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: of the experts say this could just be a transition
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: where K pop is no longer a new thing, but
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: again an industry that will maintain and could never really disappear,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: like they're going to be here. So with different groups
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: breaking records and being first many things BTS, Black, Pink,
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Straight Kids, and twice, is doubtful it will go anywhere.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: But let's hope that the transition we see within this
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: industry is more inclusive and better equipped to handle the
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: care for not only the idols but as fans.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we'll see, we'll see.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: And I'm now you're an expert.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: Annie, Oh well, I don't know about that. We didn't
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: even we cut some stuff out.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: We did.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: This more for me to learn. Perhaps we'll revisit. And
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: I would love to hear from listeners. I have heard
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: from some of you about btsh in the past. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: so please let us't know. If you have any thoughts
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: about this, you can email us at Stuff Media Mom
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on
• 1:00:37
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• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: stuff I've Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We
• 1:00:43
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• 1:00:46
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• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Books dot com and on Audible I hear. Thanks as
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: always to your super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: and our contributor Joey.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Thank you all, yes, and.
• 1:00:59
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