Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Andy Woods: Hyper-Discernment, Kid Rock, TPUSA & Ecumenism

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Andy Woods: Hyper-Discernment, Kid Rock, TPUSA & Ecumenism · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:00
  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
• 0:10
  defending biblical Christianity, no topic, off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Friends, family and Christ, thank you so much for tuning in.
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  God bless you.
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  We appreciate your prayers and support and sharing the podcast.
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  I was told we're at over, was it 500, half a million, half a million podcast downloads
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  per month.
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  It's just, that's just, that's just audio, that's, it's just like, how, like three and a
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  half years, what for doing this?
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  Anyway, it's mind-boggling, but praise him.
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  We just want to honor God, glorify him, edify and equip the body of Christ.
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  And, and we're not trying to tickle ears or talk about everything you want us to talk
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  about, but we're trying to hit on all the issues that are important today.
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  World View Matters, right?
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  So real quick, event coming to my church in Green Bay, Wisconsin is called Men of Iron
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  Conference.
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  Want to talk about that?
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  Real quick, Pastor Matt Trewella, Pastor David Roth, and Coach Dave Dobin Meyer are going
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  to be speaking there.
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  It's the men of ironconference.org.
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  It's just for men and that's the last Saturday in February 8 to 4.
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  So make sure you have that guys.
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  If you're in the, if you're in the Wisconsin at least, consider locking arms and sharpening
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  some iron with some men of God.
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  So we've got Dr. Andy Woods with us.
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  We're so blessed.
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  His website is Andy Woods Ministries.org.
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  And of course, his amazing, pastor's point of views.
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  You can get those on his YouTube channel, Andy Woods Bible Study, Andy Woods Ministries
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  on YouTube.
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  We're going to pull those up when we might talk about some of those stories, overlapping
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  a little bit what he talks about, much more in depth than we can do here, but Andy,
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  so good to see you.
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  Thank you for your time, brother.
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  Appreciate it.
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  Yeah, David.
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  Thank you.
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  Good to be here.
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  Well, talk about something that's on people's minds because of the recent Super Bowl.
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  And the split, so called in the church, the debates, the controversy.
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  We're going to talk about ecumenism.
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  And right now, though, I want to hear your thoughts on the criticism, in my opinion,
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  harsh criticism of Kid Rock.
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  And now he says he's a Christian.
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  You know, I haven't seen a lot of fruit.
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  I don't follow him closely, but I did see how he performed in the recent alternative Super
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  Bowl halftime show that TPUSA put on.
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  When they weren't claiming it was going to be a Christian show, just what they wanted
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  to be an alternative to bad bunny, which is a whole thing.
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  I did a show with Chad Davidson of Good Fight Ministries last week.
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  You guys want to look that up and good fight.
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  They did a whole expose on this guy is demonic.
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  They're talking about going after children and transsexuals and he wanted to wear a dress.
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  There's so much garbage there, didn't even do it, sing in English, by the way, at the
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  Super Bowl halftime show.
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  And just having all these flags, immigration, right?
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  You know, anyone can come to America, but immigration without assimilation.
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  Charlie Kirk talked a lot about that.
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  He said you want need to assimilate, but I'm getting off track.
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  So Andy, I know you probably didn't watch the two shows or some people don't, and that's
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  okay.
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  It's entertainment, right?
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  At TPUSA, I give them kudos for trying to do something different for those that just
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  didn't want to be offended at another NFL decision of bringing in some artists that a
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  lot of people didn't know about or didn't want to be on the halftime show.
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  So Kid Rock, he did this version of his old self transitioning or transforming into a
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  new creation in Christ's new self.
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  I got it.
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  I understood it when he started singing, mentioning Jesus.
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  I understood it, but a lot of people didn't get it.
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  And when I mean a lot of people, I mean people on the right, Christians, people in discernment
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  ministries, I want to play this clip and we'll come back and get your take on it.
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  Go ahead, Mike.
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  There's a book that's sitting in your house somewhere that could use some dust and
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  dust.
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  There's a man who died for all our sins, the hanging from the cross.
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  You can give your life to Jesus and you can give you a second chance till you can take
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  it.
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  Okay.
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  So the idea is don't procrastinate, give your life to Jesus because right now you have
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  an opportunity and the song is called Till You Can't.
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  And the lyrics before that, doing things with your dad, giving your dad a rain check because
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  you can't spend time with them and then someone you want a girl, you want to marry or spend
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  in time with your wife, it's all about procrastination, doing not doing things in the moment with
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  you just putting it off and he made that point by adding that last verse about Jesus giving
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  your life to him.
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  I thought I got choked up, man, I heard that I'm going, whoa, and before that he did one
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  of his crazy songs from 20 years ago, we were jumping up and down and I couldn't understand
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  all the lyrics, but I guess they weren't all that great.
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  But then there was these two Christians coming in and playing this violin interlude, I believe
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  they played a song and just instrumental.
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  And then they brought on him, dressed differently, dressed like a blue collar guy, and playing
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  that song.
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  I'm going, wow.
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  So I kind of got it.
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  So Andy, your thoughts on that and maybe people's reactions, go ahead.
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  Well, I mean, my first thought is look at where we are in our culture that you have to
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  have two super, super ball half time shows.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  And you have to go to a different thing to get the halftime show that you're trying to
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  circumvent.
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  And I'm happy that we now have a choice because the halftime show at the super ball has been
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  trending in the wrong direction for a long time, as far as I can remember.
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  So from that standpoint, you know, I think it's great.
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  I'm thinking of people like Benjamin Franklin in our founding history who may not have,
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  we would have agreed with on every point of doctrine, but Franklin was a big supporter
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  of Christendom, the generic principles of Christianity because he believed that that's
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  the best way to restrain people's impulses internally.
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  You know, if a, if you can't govern yourself according to the 10 commandments of God, then
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  big government has to step in and micromanage your life.
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  And so our founding fathers were always in favor of the generic principles of Christendom
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  or Christianity that kind of transcend a denominational line.
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  So I kind of look at the TPUSA stuff as moving in that direction, trying to present a cultural
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  alternative.
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  So when I look at it from that angle, I don't sit there with my own doctrinal statement
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  at my church and try to hold them accountable to that because that's not who they are claiming
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  to be.
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  They're just trying to, you know, support the broad principles of Christianity.
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  And I think that's a good thing.
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  The clip you just played, I thought was very helpful.
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  I think understanding that there has been a transformation in the gentleman's life is
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  good because that's happened to all of us.
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  I mean, I'm not the man I should be, but I'm not the man I used to be.
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  And so, you know, I can identify with him from that standpoint.
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  So you know, you're mentioning people that are throwing rocks.
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  I, I didn't know that was, I didn't know that was happening.
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  Oh my goodness.
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  I have a difficult time, you know, throwing rocks at something like that.
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  I'm far more interested in throwing rocks at the normal super bowl presentation than
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  this.
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  But anyway, those are my general thoughts, I guess.
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  Thank you.
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  I would agree.
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  And again, I mean, we've talked about this before we got on the podcast.
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  There's sanctification is a process.
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  And some people get discipled.
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  I'm not sure what kind of pastor kid rock has or what kind of
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  discipleship, if, if any, he need pray for him.
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  Pray for him is obviously he wants to represent Jesus.
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  He wants to share Jesus.
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  I mean, just the lines of that song.
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  He said, God will come up one morning, gave that song to,
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  gave that, that verse to him, but there's a, there's a book in your house
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  somewhere that needs to be dusted off.
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  There's a man, uh, whatever it was hanging from across.
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  If you give your life to Jesus, he'll give you a second chance
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  till you can't so that he also a sense of urgency.
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  I don't hear that in a lot of churches.
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  A sense of urgency to give your life to Jesus.
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  Now, once you give your life to Jesus, then there's a process of
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  turning away from the world and, and changing your life, repenting and, um,
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  just doing things according to the word of God.
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  But I want, there's an article Andy.
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  I want to get your take on this.
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  Um, Virgil Walker wrote TPUSA isn't the church.
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  And that's the point.
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  Um, and I'll cut to the chase, uh, the last page in this sub-stack article
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  from him is TPSU, TPUSA is not the church.
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  A halftime show is not discipleship.
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  A call to read the Bible is not pastoral care.
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  What wears me out is a brand of discernment that never builds anything.
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  Public witness isn't discipleship.
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  That's what kid rock did.
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  It's the front door, he said.
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  You can hold a high standard without despising imperfect instruments.
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  And, and I'll let you share whatever you'd like to on that.
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  Well, I think what the guy is doing is it's not even really, I wouldn't even put it in the
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  category of evangelism.
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  I would sort of put it in the category of pre-evangelism.
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  Because I can micromanage his presentation of the gospel.
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  You know, he's talking about give your life to Jesus, which is not the gospel.
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  The gospel isn't, let's give our lives to Jesus.
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  The gospel is Jesus gave our life, his life for us.
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  Yes.
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  And we're to accept what he did for us as a free gift.
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  You know, so I can, you know, I could, I could micromanage a lot of different things in what he's
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  saying there.
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  But to me, he's making people aware of, as you said, the urgency of the hour.
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  He's making people aware of the fact that they need to make some kind of response to Jesus Christ
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  today while there's an opportunity, because once you enter into the eternal realm
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  after death, then that opportunity ceases to exist.
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  It's appointed for a man once to die, then to face the judgment.
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  So what I think I would put this in the category of is he's planning seeds
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  that the Holy Spirit can use later on and bring to fruition as more clarified,
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  specific evangelism, you know, takes place in people's lives.
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  So I look at it from that standpoint and I put it more in the category of pre, pre evangelism.
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  It's more of a cultural America thing.
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  Yes.
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  Then it's in a church thing.
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  And so it's just hard for me to be a negative nilly and find every negative thing about it
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  that I can find and devote myself and my ministry to trying to expose that when, you know,
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  there's, there's other, there's other things for me to do.
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  Like, if you want to find something negative, let's start with the actual super bowl half-time show.
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  And I want to do that right now.
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  I want to go back to that and just read one paragraph or article from,
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  this is over at CBN News.
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  Kid Rock shares about Jesus as millions tune into the All-American Half-Time Super Bowl.
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  Show up.
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  So it said, according to Apple Music,
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  he sang a song called, or this is Bad Bunny Now.
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  Bad Bunny sang a song called Safaera.
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  I don't know what that is, which means debauchery and Puerto Rican slang.
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  The translation of the lyrics to the English are so incredibly vile,
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  profanely describing debatuous actions.
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  During the song, two men were grinding on screen with each other.
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  Shame on you, NFL, for promoting this.
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  And there's, you know, part of the half-time show right there, we're watching it.
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  It didn't, if you just look at it and don't know what they're singing about,
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  like, okay, he's talking to people walking around with a football,
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  you know, people go, oh, it's harmless.
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  And that's why even some Christians Andy were saying, well, what was wrong with this?
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  Because he's singing in a language that most Americans don't understand.
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  You don't know the lyrics.
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  They didn't know the history and just the awful things he was supporting.
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  Bad Bunny.
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  So yes, I'm so glad we had an alternative.
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  Not perfect.
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  I think it was a little bit more too much country for me,
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  but I liked the artist.
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  The quality was great.
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  They sounded good.
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  I think we need to do that again every year.
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  I don't know if it's TPA, USA or someone else.
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  But really quick, Virgil Walker ends his article by saying,
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  sound theology still matters.
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  Scripture warns us about false teaching.
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  But Scripture also shows God moving his purposes forward through men with baggage,
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  rough edges and mixed motives.
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  But Paul still said in Philippians 1, 15 through 18,
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  Christ is proclaimed.
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  And in that, I rejoice.
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  So a political stage pointing people to Scripture is not the same thing as a
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  platform redefining Scripture.
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  Like we see in the church across the country and in our next podcast,
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  Andy, we're going to talk a little bit more about apostasy.
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  But do you have any other thoughts on this?
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  Because I think some of the concerns that maybe well-meaning people,
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  Christians on the right have is TPUSA, that connection there.
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  Not Charlie Kirk in his worldview,
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  but maybe what they're perceiving TPUSA in the new direction.
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  Maybe I'm not sure if it's new,
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  but they seem to be opening doors to a lot of people or platforming people.
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  The you and I would probably not platform
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  theologically your thoughts on that.
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  Well, I look at the TPUSA as a cultural type of organization.
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  I'm not looking at it through the grid of a doctrinal statement of my local church.
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  So there's a number of speakers that they have platformed
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  and are continuing to platform.
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  I mean, I would never have Tucker Carlson at our church
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  or Candace Owens or people like that,
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  that are so viriantly against the Jewish people
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  and the nation of Israel,
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  because I'm a pre-millennial,
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  pre-tribulational, dispensational Zionist.
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  But TPUSA, to me, is valuable in the sense that
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  they're holding to certain worldview issues.
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  They're pro-second amendment, pro-borders, pro-life,
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  pro-home schooling your kids.
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  If that's the option you want to take,
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  you should have the freedom to do that.
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  And so those are sort of big ticket issues
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  that I can identify with.
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  But when it comes to doctrinal specifics,
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  I don't really look to them for those kinds of things.
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  And so maybe that's why I'm not always upset
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  related to something that they say
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  that happens to be doctrinally kind of species.
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  So we're to talk a little bit about ecumenical movements
• 16:29
  in that word, ecumenism, when we come back with Dr. Andy Woods.
• 16:34
  Register now for the World View Matters conference,
• 16:37
  May 1st and 2nd in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
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  Experts speakers include Alex Newman,
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  Jim Chafee, Mark and Amber Archer,
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  and Elijah Abraham, Delta Hotel Green Bay,
• 17:01
  May 1st and 2nd, go to worldviewmattersconference.com
• 17:06
  that's worldviewmattersconference.com.
• 17:10
  So Andy Woods is ecumenism biblical.
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  That's a question over at gotquestions.org
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  and there's three definitions at least.
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  So I want a clear one from you.
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  It says one of them is the concise evangelical dictionary of theology
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  defines ecumenism as quote,
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  the organized attempt to bring about the cooperation
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  and unity among Christians.
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  It can also be defined more broadly as quote,
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  a movement that promotes worldwide unity
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  among all religions through greater cooperation
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  and then got questions said we will restrict the definition
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  of ecumenism to the move toward unity
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  among Christian groups.
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  So I guess the important question, Andy,
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  is our ecumenical ventures or purposes right and biblical.
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  So help us understand this a little bit better
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  because that seems to be a concern with turning point USA,
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  which is not a church, it's a political non-profit,
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  but they're doing a lot of great work.
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  So share your thoughts on that, please.
• 18:22
  Well, we've debated, you know,
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  as Christians for a long time,
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  can you be co-belligerents with other groups
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  in fighting certain social evils?
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  So, you know, let's come together with Catholics and Mormons
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  to fight communism, to fight abortion,
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  to fight pornography, because there's not enough of us, you know,
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  to vote these things out.
• 18:47
  We have to kind of cooperate with each other.
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  So from that standpoint, you know, the late Jerry Falwell
• 18:53
  through the moral majority was doing this stuff back in the 80s
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  and then it kind of got eclipsed by the work of Ralph Reed
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  and Pat Robertson through the Christian coalition
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  and I always felt fine with those types of movements and groups.
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  My problem with ecumenism though is when it goes too far
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  and what you're told to do is water down the Bible,
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  water down doctrinal distinctives
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  so you can cooperate with another group at a political level.
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  Once they start telling me to water it down, you know,
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  de-emphasize Zionism, even those Zionism is in the Bible,
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  de-emphasize the Trinity because the Mormons, you know,
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  may not agree with your understanding of the Trinity.
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  In fact, they reject the doctrine of the Trinity.
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  Water that down because we've got to make these other groups happy
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  so that we can be co-belligerents against communism or humanism or abortion.
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  Then we have a problem because truth or true unity always comes from a platform of truth.
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  Everybody quotes John 17 verses 20 through 23,
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  where Jesus in the high priestly prayer there
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  prays that we would all be one as the Trinity is one.
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  But they always skip verse 17, which comes before verses 20 through 23,
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  which says sanctify them by the truth.
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  Thy word is truth.
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  So when the ecumenical movement starts to water down truth for the sake of unity
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  and pressure people not to emphasize certain parts of the Bible for the sake of ecumenical unity,
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  that's where I say you guys have taken something that probably started well-intentioned
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  and you've just gone too far with it.
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  So that's what whenever unity is pushed and truth is the emphasized
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  and it's no longer, let's stand up for the Second Amendment or whatever,
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  then as we like to say here in Houston, Houston we have a problem.
• 21:05
  And so I can't go, I can't cooperate with the ecumenical movement when it reaches that point.
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  I don't, I'm not a great student of what TPUSA is doing,
• 21:15
  but it's my understanding they haven't crossed that threshold yet.
• 21:19
  So I would just want to jump down to the conclusion and I agree with you Andy.
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  In this short article that got questions, it says, should we be involved in ecumenical
• 21:30
  cooperation with other Christian churches and other groups of believers?
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  If there is no doctrinal compromise on core Christian belief,
• 21:39
  if the gospel is not being watered down or sidelined, as you just said, if believers can maintain
• 21:44
  a clear testimony before the world and God is glorified, then we may freely and joyfully
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  join with other believers in pursuit of God's kingdom. But that's another thing though,
• 21:55
  pursuit of the kingdom. We have about five minutes left here in this episode and the NAR is a big
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  concern to a lot of people. They want the kingdom now and the NAR, the new Apostolic Reformation.
• 22:09
  We just had Holly Pivic on the podcast. And so some maybe even within TPUSA are leaning toward,
• 22:19
  yeah, that's maybe our approach. Would you care to speak to that before we run out of time?
• 22:25
  Well, I think TPUSA would do themselves really well by saying here's our big five or big 10
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  issues and stick with that. And as long as the rallying point is those things and that's fine. But
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  the moment you bring in people that are trying to bring in the kingdom, we have a big problem
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  there because I'm not trying to bring in the kingdom. I mean, Jesus told me to pray,
• 22:51
  thy kingdom come. That's a prayer to the Father. Our Father who aren't in heaven, aloebi, thy name,
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  thy kingdom come. He's going to bring in the kingdom at the end of the seven-year tribulation period
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  after there's a converted Israel. And I'm not expecting the kingdom to materialize before that
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  point in time. So if the ecumenical activity is pressuring my church to get involved in
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  being a kingdom builder, I can't cooperate with that because that changes the purpose of the
• 23:23
  church. The purpose of the church is to glorify God, to evangelize the lost and to edify the saints,
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  not to bring in the kingdom. And the more we're trying to bring in the kingdom, the more we're
• 23:34
  throwing ourselves into something that only Jesus can set up. And by the way, how's it working
• 23:41
  for you as you're trying to bring in the kingdom? Are you making any real progress? I mean, to me,
• 23:45
  do you guys read the same newspapers I read? The world's going to hell in a hand basket. So it's
• 23:51
  just an example where I'm in favor of cooperation, except when you're pressuring me to water down
• 24:00
  truth or change the definition of the church. And that's when I say thanks, but no thanks.
• 24:05
  Yeah, exactly. Amen, Andy. And by the way, I think the biblical concepts of salt and light
• 24:13
  never reach the point where that turns into control. Salt and light talk about influence,
• 24:18
  influencing culture, society for righteousness, preserving, but not controlling institutions
• 24:26
  or people. So do you think on I'm looking at your book, the Bible and your vote, do you think that's
• 24:32
  a reason just this confusion out there about outside of church walls? How should a Christian act?
• 24:39
  What should we do outside of the church in our culture and our society in our everyday lives?
• 24:45
  Do you think because some Christians are confused about that? They want to avoid the political
• 24:49
  altogether? Well, they're confused about the issue of stewardship. I mean, a stewardship is not
• 24:59
  an owner, but a manager, someone who manages for God. And God has given us in this country
• 25:05
  unbelievable freedom. And so we're supposed to manage that for God. When I vote and I try to lay out
• 25:12
  the principles in that book, I'm not divorcing my Christian worldview from my voting.
• 25:19
  Any more than I divorce my Christian worldview from my family or from my vocation,
• 25:26
  whether it be secular or otherwise, any more from education. I mean, I bring that Christian
• 25:33
  worldview wherever I go. And I think that's what salt and light means. What kingdom now people
• 25:39
  mean by it is takeover. It's almost like dealing with a Muslim who wants to take over America
• 25:48
  and mandate sharia law and impose a theocracy. And I'm sorry, once you go down that road,
• 25:56
  that's been tried before, it hasn't worked very well. John Calvin tried to pull that off in Geneva
• 26:03
  and is probably responsible for the deaths of directly or indirectly over 50 people.
• 26:10
  And then you can think of the Spanish Inquisition, you can think of the crusades. I mean,
• 26:14
  all of these are social experiments that went haywire. So I like the separate sovereigns doctrine,
• 26:21
  church and state are separate sovereigns. I don't like separation of church and state concept,
• 26:27
  because they're trying to say remove Christianity from government. So the bottom line to the whole
• 26:32
  thing is for me, influence is great. Kingdom now takeover theology, theocracy language. I'm not
• 26:40
  involved in that because the only theocrat that I'm going to be involved in is the one that
• 26:45
  Jesus orchestrates during the thousand year millennial reign of Christ. Amen. And I think I've quoted
• 26:52
  you. In fact, one of my books I wrote a chapter called The Separation of Wait a minute. No,
• 26:57
  the second biggest lie in America, because that's I heard that from you once. I said, yes,
• 27:01
  the separation of church and state, because what that is interpreted to be now is the separation
• 27:08
  of biblical Christianity and government or culture. Remove Christian influence or the biblical
• 27:14
  worldview from every aspect of no, that's that's just the opposite of what believers should be doing.
• 27:19
  I know Andy, I'm preaching to the choir because you wrote the Bible and your vote. Thank you for
• 27:23
  that. And you can get that at Andywoodsministries.org. Thanks for your time today.
• 27:28
  Great to be here, David. Thank you. God bless you, family and Christ. And as always,
• 27:33
  keep speaking the truth about things that matter. See you next time.