Latest / The Worship and Leadership Podcast / Jesus, Why Do You Ask So Much of Me?

Transcript

Jesus, Why Do You Ask So Much of Me? · The Worship and Leadership Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: Hey, what's going on, everybody, and welcome to Worship and Leadership by LifePoint Creative and we're excited that today we have a special podcast.
0:17
Speaker 1: Yes, and my boy, willie, is in the house.
0:19
Speaker 2: Yo, I'm excited to be here.
0:21
Speaker 2: Cousin Willie, it's your boy, cousin Willie.
0:23
Speaker 2: Hey, what's up?
0:24
Speaker 2: I?
0:25
Speaker 3: love that that's become a moniker for you.
0:28
Speaker 2: I fully embraced it.
0:29
Speaker 3: I've had people call you that, not knowing you're also one of our pastors.
0:33
Speaker 1: Can I talk to Cousin Willie?
0:35
Speaker 1: Sure, you should put that on the website.
0:37
Speaker 1: We should, I'm all about it.
0:39
Speaker 3: Hashtag or like in quotations, in quotations, and I'm excited, pastor Elmer.
0:45
Speaker 2: Yes, because we have our fearless leader, the illustrious there it is.
0:51
Speaker 2: I knew it was coming Industrious.
0:53
Speaker 2: There it is All right and indomitable, pastor Michael Burnett.
0:57
Speaker 3: Come on, I appreciate your vocabulary so much.
1:01
Speaker 3: Yes, sir.
1:02
Speaker 1: Indomitable, I can't even say it.
1:03
Speaker 1: Indomitable.
1:05
Speaker 2: Is that the snowman?
1:05
Speaker 2: No, that's abominable.
1:07
Speaker 2: No, you're not abominable, but you are indomitable.
1:09
Speaker 3: So define, give us some definitions Absolutely so industrious Nope, start with illustrious, illustrious, because I think people don't understand that word Illustrious, he is a luminary.
1:26
Speaker 2: You are, you're very distinct if you are industrious and that you're very hard working.
1:27
Speaker 2: Nobody's going to outwork Pastor Mike nobody.
1:28
Speaker 2: And then you are indomitable, meaning that you are unable to be dominated, you are undominatable like.
1:33
Speaker 2: Shaq in the paint, you lethal in the post and you are lethal to the enemy.
1:40
Speaker 2: The enemy cannot dominate you, because the one who was I think he was going to the he that's in the world.
1:44
Speaker 2: I have authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and all the power of the enemy In Jesus' name, call somebody.
1:48
Speaker 2: Okay, now we'll appropriate that.
1:49
Speaker 3: There you go, you got it Well.
1:51
Speaker 1: today's podcast is special.
1:52
Speaker 2: Jesus dominates me.
1:53
Speaker 1: Because we're talking about our current sermon series which we're in the sermon series called Jesus.
2:00
Speaker 3: Why yeah?
2:00
Speaker 1: Why yeah, and it's been powerful.
2:02
Speaker 3: So we are the month of April 2025.
2:06
Speaker 3: So if you listen to this outside of the window of when we're doing this series.
2:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're in a five-week series, including Easter, dealing with Jesus.
2:14
Speaker 3: Why, yeah, we were going to call the series.
2:17
Speaker 3: Why you Gotta Say that, jesus or I Wish Jesus Hadn't Said that and then we were going to call it what you talking about, jesus.
2:24
Speaker 2: I still think we should have done that.
2:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would have been great.
2:25
Speaker 3: What you talking about, Dan Ham we might ought to just rebrand it, put a little.
2:28
Speaker 1: Gary Coleman photo on the graphic we're trying to.
2:29
Speaker 1: I ignorantly was looking for Gary Coleman and then someone was like you know he's dead, yeah, I had no idea.
2:38
Speaker 3: We're going to immortalize him talking about his dad too.
2:40
Speaker 3: What you talking?
2:41
Speaker 2: about Come on.
2:42
Speaker 3: That's true, that's right.
2:43
Speaker 3: Who's indomitable?
2:44
Speaker 3: He is indomitable Jesus.
2:45
Speaker 2: Christ Come on.
2:46
Speaker 3: So we're in a series looking at I always loved doing red letter series teachings on the words of Christ and it's always interesting to me when non-church people will say well, I respect Jesus, I just follow the red letters, or I just follow the words of Jesus, and I go have you read the words of Jesus?
3:04
Speaker 3: Because he says some very difficult things.
3:06
Speaker 3: In fact, some of the hardest parts of the Bible are the words of Jesus, because he calls you to leave all and follow him.
3:14
Speaker 3: He calls you to die to self.
3:15
Speaker 3: He's kind of an all or nothing.
3:17
Speaker 3: He is very much an all or nothing Lord, and so people that say you don't have to go to church to be a Christian didn't read the Bible or you don't follow it, or you know I appreciate it was Gandhi, I think has been famously quoted forever I like Christ.
3:31
Speaker 3: It's your Christians I have a problem with.
3:32
Speaker 3: Well, you can't say that.
3:34
Speaker 3: You can't say I like and believe and follow Jesus, but not the rest of the Bible or the church or Christianity, because he's coming back for a bride.
3:42
Speaker 3: That's right.
3:43
Speaker 3: His words are hard.
3:44
Speaker 3: I mean.
3:45
Speaker 3: I'm remembering, of course now because of the Chosen.
3:48
Speaker 3: I see a lot of the scenes of the Bible through the Chosen Right.
3:51
Speaker 3: But anyway, I remember that scene where the brother, the sons of thunder, James and John, ask Jesus, can we have a seat at your table?
3:56
Speaker 3: And I think in season four, where they come to Jesus and they're nervous to ask him and one brother's, like you ask him, you know how you ask him.
4:03
Speaker 3: And the mom's in the back, yeah, yeah.
4:06
Speaker 3: And they said, you know, we just want to know.
4:08
Speaker 3: And when you come into your kingdom, can we have a seat there?
4:10
Speaker 3: And he looks at them just so despondent, like you're not getting this kingdom I'm talking about.
4:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, this isn't a palace on earth, this isn't me as king, and I'm looking for my, my royal court.
4:21
Speaker 3: And he gets emotional in that scene.
4:24
Speaker 3: But anyway he says do you have any idea what you're asking?
4:27
Speaker 3: What cup I'm going to drink, what I'm going to give up?
4:30
Speaker 3: So anyway, he says for you to ask to sit at my right and left hand.
4:33
Speaker 3: You have no idea what you're asking.
4:34
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of the teachings of Jesus are hard.
4:37
Speaker 3: When you read them you go man, why do you have to say that?
4:40
Speaker 2: that yeah.
4:41
Speaker 3: You know, when he challenges this weekend, we're talking about the heart and he goes.
4:45
Speaker 3: I've said, you've heard it said don't murder.
4:46
Speaker 3: But I tell you if you hate somebody, yeah, murder them in your heart.
4:49
Speaker 2: Why, Jesus, back off man.
4:50
Speaker 3: Let me just let me just hate people Cause it feels so good to hate him.
4:53
Speaker 3: As long as I hey, at least I didn't kill him.
4:54
Speaker 3: Right, jesus is going well.
4:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, you did, yeah, and feedback on it.
5:02
Speaker 3: But a lot of feedback, a lot of commentary, a lot of questions from our church, which is why we're doing this podcast.
5:09
Speaker 1: And we're going into our fourth.
5:10
Speaker 2: The fourth week this Sunday, this weekend At Easter.
5:13
Speaker 1: But just the first one was on forgiveness.
5:16
Speaker 1: That's right, Jesus.
5:16
Speaker 1: Why do you ask me to forgive?
5:18
Speaker 3: Everyone, everyone.
5:19
Speaker 1: Everyone, which is great.
5:26
Speaker 2: Second one was on why do you ask me to follow you?
5:27
Speaker 1: And then this last week was to check your heart.
5:28
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this pastor like what?
5:30
Speaker 1: What led you like?
5:32
Speaker 1: There's so many things in the Bible that Jesus said and we could have gone any direction, but like what specifically led you to those questions?
5:41
Speaker 3: Right, um, uh, maybe I'm dealing with it myself and I think forgiveness is an unmasterable issue and the only way to stay in the right posture on forgiveness is to stay next to Jesus on it, right?
5:58
Speaker 3: So as soon as you forgive one person, somebody else is going to offend you and hurt you and it's.
6:05
Speaker 3: It's almost like re-injuring a shoulder, right.
6:07
Speaker 3: I got surgery, I got rehabbed, I'm doing great, and then I messed it up again, right.
6:11
Speaker 3: I think forgiveness is one thing that we will constantly until we stop breathing we will struggle with.
6:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so often in just pastoring our church, pastoral care, counseling in the lobby, and our team is hearing people are struggling with forgiveness it just never goes away, yeah.
6:27
Speaker 3: So that was one that I really felt like the Lord wanted to deal with.
6:31
Speaker 3: That you know, you guys know this, but when we're putting sermon series together, it is a prayerful conversation.
6:36
Speaker 3: That's right.
6:37
Speaker 3: I tend to lead the way in that.
6:39
Speaker 3: I bring it to our team.
6:40
Speaker 3: Here's what I'm thinking and praying about for the year, and even in building this particular series, I'd asked some of our team some questions about some of the things that I wanted to preach on.
6:53
Speaker 3: Forgiveness comes up every time.
6:53
Speaker 3: We'll do a survey at Easter, hey, later in the year, maybe next year we're going to write a sermon series and help us write it.
6:57
Speaker 3: What are some books of the Bible you want to hear or some issues you want to hear preached about?
7:03
Speaker 3: Forgiveness is always at the top of that list.
7:05
Speaker 3: That's why that following Jesus.
7:08
Speaker 3: I think it's the central message of our church.
7:09
Speaker 3: We want to help lead people to be fully devoted followers of Jesus.
7:12
Speaker 3: That's right, we're actually not trying to lead people to conversion.
7:16
Speaker 3: We're trying to lead people to devotion.
7:18
Speaker 3: I'm a bit of a nerd about the church, the evangelical church, the Western church, the American church, whatever.
7:25
Speaker 3: I'm a bit of a nerd about the church and the evangelical church, the Western church, the American church, whatever.
7:28
Speaker 3: I think one of our gaps in our ecclesiology, which is how we do church, is we've preached to conversion, raise a hand, say the sinner's prayer, but we haven't actually done a good job, historically, in the last 50 years at least, of leading people in devotion and discipleship.
7:43
Speaker 3: And, honestly, there's going to be a ton of people that did churchy things, believed in Jesus but didn't know Jesus.
7:50
Speaker 3: That's according to Jesus' own words.
7:53
Speaker 3: He'll separate sheep and goats in the last days.
7:55
Speaker 3: Many will say to me didn't we and he names the big things Didn't you prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name?
8:00
Speaker 3: That's the stuff like super spiritual Christians do, right.
8:03
Speaker 3: And he's going to look at some people that have done miraculous things and say you did all those things, but you just didn't know me, we didn't have a relationship.
8:11
Speaker 3: And so that's the relationship follower, fully devoted.
8:15
Speaker 3: That message is the central mission of our church actually, which is why I selected that talk and then the one on guarding your heart.
8:22
Speaker 3: It's just an obscure way to think about our walk with God that your life is an overflow of your heart, and I think what it's been interesting on the back end of that sermon.
8:32
Speaker 3: So I'd like to dig into that sermon a little bit more personally and maybe even do some writing on it.
8:37
Speaker 3: I've had more comments of people saying I've never heard anybody preach on that before.
8:41
Speaker 3: To guard my heart, keep my heart, that I'm responsible for that you know as a staff.
8:47
Speaker 3: Years ago we read the book Soul Keeping by John Ortberg who says you are the keeper of your own soul.
8:52
Speaker 3: God saves your soul, you keep it, and so we have this responsibility to keeping and guarding our heart.
8:58
Speaker 3: And clearly the response has been from people I've never even thought that way before, never heard that before.
9:05
Speaker 3: So it's confirmation to me when I hear that kind of stuff that the Lord was in that and inspired the writing of it.
9:11
Speaker 2: And one thing I've enjoyed, pastor Mike, you do this with a series like this, you create what I call anchor statements.
9:16
Speaker 2: So the overarching one is that every word of Jesus is pregnant with the weight of heaven.
9:24
Speaker 2: Every word of Jesus is pregnant with the weight of heaven.
9:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just so.
9:26
Speaker 2: Can you kind of just give some more to that?
9:28
Speaker 2: Because, again, that's such a powerful statement to your point?
9:30
Speaker 2: Because it's easy for us to read scripture and even the words of Jesus and forget he is speaking as God.
9:38
Speaker 2: He's not speaking as, like, a representative of God, he is God.
9:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's not an ambassador from heaven.
9:42
Speaker 3: Right, I had somebody.
9:43
Speaker 3: I mean, people have considered him an ambassador of God or they've considered him.
9:47
Speaker 3: Even the language son of God is a diminishing term, right, like the daughters of Mike, not me.
9:53
Speaker 3: They're my daughters, they're the next generation.
9:55
Speaker 3: It's God the son, he's God the son, so he's God and he's God the son.
10:03
Speaker 3: The son of God is a turn on that phrase.
10:04
Speaker 3: But, yeah, his language.
10:05
Speaker 3: He never wasted words, like he never.
10:06
Speaker 3: I started wrestling with this a number of years ago.
10:09
Speaker 3: He never took divinity off.
10:10
Speaker 3: So you know, we have this dual nature of Christ in the doctrine of Christian history, that he's fully divine, he's fully human and he always was.
10:19
Speaker 3: Some people want to debate.
10:20
Speaker 3: Well, he became divine at his baptism.
10:22
Speaker 3: Nope, right, he, I guess, maybe exposed that he is fully divine.
10:29
Speaker 3: Finally, he came into that space?
10:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, revealed that he was.
10:31
Speaker 3: I mean, he was divine as a kid, yeah, which is crazy to think about.
10:34
Speaker 3: We don't have much documented about him.
10:36
Speaker 3: There's some obscure extra biblical or non-canonical works out there that have stories or myths about him as a divine teenager or whatever.
10:45
Speaker 3: But we've not canonized those into the scripture.
10:48
Speaker 3: But he's fully God, he's fully human and I think I think we really love to identify with the fully human part of him.
10:56
Speaker 3: But then we make him too much like us, like he must've had a sinful side, like a weekend at Bernie's kind of side or a uh at the lake with the boys side.
11:05
Speaker 3: And I've, I've said he's, he never took divinity off to have a weekend trip with the, with his buddies.
11:09
Speaker 3: It was like man, this is a.
11:11
Speaker 3: It's been a tough couple of weeks with all these Pharisees.
11:14
Speaker 3: I just need to kick back and have a cold goblet of wine.
11:20
Speaker 2: Yeah.
11:20
Speaker 1: Cold goblet of wine.
11:22
Speaker 1: Hold on That'snaissance.
11:22
Speaker 1: That's a wrong time period there, pastor Mike.
11:24
Speaker 1: That's renaissance.
11:25
Speaker 2: You're up ahead a couple centuries.
11:27
Speaker 3: So if we have an appropriate view of Jesus is fully God, then it's always.
11:34
Speaker 3: That means he's eternal.
11:37
Speaker 2: Yes.
11:38
Speaker 3: The divine part of him is the eternal God of create before creation.
11:41
Speaker 3: That's right.
11:41
Speaker 3: Colossians says at creation he was overseeing the whole thing and all the things were created through him, by him and for him.
11:47
Speaker 3: That's right, so he was always.
11:50
Speaker 3: God is eternal.
11:51
Speaker 3: This will mess with your head.
11:52
Speaker 3: I'm going on a rabbit trail.
11:54
Speaker 3: Hang on Come on God's eternal in one way, If he's eternal he has to be eternal in every way that he is, so he's eternal.
12:01
Speaker 3: He's eternal in essence and in passion and heart, and his divine nature was always divine and eternally divine, so he never turned that off.
12:12
Speaker 2: Yeah.
12:13
Speaker 3: If he touched you, god touched you, but through the flesh of Jesus, the human that's good, but God touched you.
12:22
Speaker 2: If he spoke to you.
12:23
Speaker 3: God spoke to you.
12:24
Speaker 3: God didn't waste words Then.
12:25
Speaker 3: Therefore, his words are full of the weight of heaven.
12:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so good.
12:29
Speaker 3: It's a different way of evaluating and seeing his words.
12:32
Speaker 3: I think, you know, because we're all used to reading books and papers and letters and newspapers and we kind of eat the meat, spit out the bones, kind of how we read anything.
12:41
Speaker 3: You learn to skim and scan.
12:42
Speaker 3: I've got multiple degrees.
12:43
Speaker 3: I learned how to read books real fast.
12:44
Speaker 3: I don't remember a ton of them, but I read them enough to write a paper.
12:48
Speaker 3: Right, that's right.
12:49
Speaker 3: And I think, if we're not careful, we can approach the scripture that way, as if parts of what he said or did or comment or or um, not divine, yeah, but he's fully god, that's right, which means he's eternal, he's all powerful, all-knowing, and everything he said was he carried the weight of heaven right.
13:06
Speaker 2: So then, I love how you make that a practical application for us with four more anchor statements.
13:12
Speaker 2: Okay, hey, listen the words of jesus, you can trust it.
13:16
Speaker 2: If Jesus said it, you can trust it, you can believe it, you can obey it, and it's good for you.
13:22
Speaker 2: So now that personalizes.
13:24
Speaker 2: So now the implication is okay.
13:26
Speaker 2: Not only am I reading the words of God in the flesh, I can apply these words to me, and here's four reasons why.
13:33
Speaker 2: So what's at stake now is if I obey, there's blessing, there's peace, there's favor, there's close relationship.
13:40
Speaker 2: If I disobey, well then I'm outside of God's will, and it's not that he's cursing me, but I can't expect to walk in peace, I can't expect to walk in flourishing and thriving, and I can't expect to be doing life with God the way he intended me to do.
13:55
Speaker 2: So I love that you talked to those four statements, and you've done it every time that you've preached.
13:59
Speaker 3: Yeah specifically, I said you can trust it and believe it, which seems a little passive, that's at the heart and mind level, right.
14:05
Speaker 3: However, the word believe we're actually studying this as a staff the word believe in the original language actually indicates that I believe unto devotion, unto allegiance.
14:16
Speaker 3: I believe to the point that it changes my behaviors.
14:18
Speaker 3: Yes, but I went ahead and said you can trust it, you can believe it and you can obey it.
14:24
Speaker 3: So we've gone from passive in the heart and the mind to the body and the actions of your life right.
14:31
Speaker 3: So again, going back to the, and then you know it's good for you, yes, but again, there's a lot of folks that live a certain way and they'll say, well, I just I affirm the red letters of Jesus, I believe in Jesus.
14:42
Speaker 3: And then you go okay, well, let's, let's unpack that, cause that's actually really.
14:45
Speaker 3: He's the center of our faith, his words are full of the kingdom.
14:49
Speaker 3: So then, if you want to follow Jesus, then you can trust, believe, obey and and know that his words are good for us.
14:56
Speaker 3: Then let's live that way as we approach his text.
15:00
Speaker 3: Then you can say gosh, jesus, I wish you hadn't said that.
15:03
Speaker 3: Like, if you lust after a woman, you've committed an alter in your heart.
15:07
Speaker 3: I wish you hadn't said that, but if you said it, it's good for me.
15:10
Speaker 3: So now I can trust that.
15:12
Speaker 3: Okay, it's a heart issue and I believe that he knows my heart better than I do, and I can't obey to not lust and I can't obey to lay that down.
15:21
Speaker 3: I can't obey to walk away from that.
15:22
Speaker 3: I can't obey to choose him over that and I can know that it's good for me.
15:25
Speaker 3: That's good.
15:26
Speaker 1: You know one thing that, as as we're in this series and we're seeing the impact it's making in people's lives, including our own lives, is that we came out of first Timothy, and so we're seeing the relationship between Paul and Timothy and how the words of Paul are shaping his ministry and his spiritual formation and the things that he's facing as a disciple and as a pastor leader at a young age.
15:52
Speaker 1: And now we're in the series Jesus, why and it's the very words of Jesus that are challenging us and like every sermon to this point has been so, so challenging, to the point where we have to take on what is being said, and it's it's putting holding us accountable to like what do I do?
16:12
Speaker 1: I have to guard my heart.
16:14
Speaker 1: I have to choose to follow him.
16:16
Speaker 1: I have to forgive.
16:17
Speaker 1: A lot of times in church we just show up, we come to church and we think what's the pastor have for me today and what's he going to preach, and I leave and I don't have to do anything.
16:27
Speaker 1: I leave with a feel-good message.
16:30
Speaker 1: I'm just saying just in church culture in general.
16:33
Speaker 1: But when you're confronted with scripture, the way that we have the last few weeks, pretty much the last few months honestly.
16:45
Speaker 1: I think it's life-changing and we're witnessing that right now with our church and people in our dream, teams and stuff like that.
16:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, we preached 1 Timothy in, was it February March?
16:51
Speaker 2: That was yeah.
16:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then we're actually going to make the adjustment after the Easter series Jesus, why we're going to go ahead and preach second Timothy in May and June, cause it's obviously a sequel to the first, and in second Timothy Paul talks about all of scriptures, god breathed and profitable for training, correcting, reproofing, so that the man of God, the woman of God, can be being perfected and lack nothing.
17:14
Speaker 3: That's right.
17:15
Speaker 3: So the word is so good for us, right?
17:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's, it's good counsel, it's trustworthy.
17:26
Speaker 3: We can't obey it, but man, it can sting.
17:27
Speaker 3: I'm curious, just to your point though.
17:27
Speaker 3: Uh, maybe you would share vulnerably, like what?
17:29
Speaker 3: What are some of the things?
17:29
Speaker 3: I know that, the prep part, the backstory, how's it landing, whether it's for you or your family or folks that you're hearing?
17:37
Speaker 3: How's it landing, what's it doing for you and where's it really?
17:40
Speaker 1: scratching at you.
17:41
Speaker 1: I think, like just this last one, you were talking about the different things and one of your points that compete for our hearts, and you were talking about the flesh and differences and how there's certain things that are good, that are fighting for our attention.
17:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, cares of the world.
17:57
Speaker 3: Cares of the world.
17:57
Speaker 3: Got to raise a family, got to make money?
17:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, provide in the sin, in the flesh, yeah.
18:02
Speaker 1: And then you at the end.
18:04
Speaker 1: I think you wrote and you mentioned this yesterday that just kind of in the moment, at the bottom, you're like you know who else is competing for you, and you wrote Jesusesus on your tv.
18:16
Speaker 1: And that hit me hard because, as as a believer for many years, like I, you know, you just you're, you're like it's me against the world, but there's times that we're even pushing jesus away, and so when you wrote jesus, I'm like, oh man, like it's almost like sometimes we come off his team and we're like doing our own thing.
18:35
Speaker 1: And so it just put it in perspective, like guarding your heart is not just for the unbeliever or the you know, or you know, or for someone that's just coming to the faith.
18:45
Speaker 1: It this is for all of us and regardless of how long we've known about Jesus walked, you know, been discipled.
18:51
Speaker 1: Um, yeah, that that was like a slap in the face, not in a bad way, but like it was.
18:56
Speaker 1: I'm like that is dope.
18:57
Speaker 2: Like honestly.
18:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
19:01
Speaker 2: I loved it.
19:02
Speaker 2: So our family, we do sermon review, just the four of us, every Sunday evening, okay, and so we were talking through that about, again, you know, guarding your heart.
19:13
Speaker 2: And so, you know, I just asked him the family did a great job, I thought, in being vulnerable, and we were just asking, hey, what are some things that you thought compete?
19:22
Speaker 2: Um, and every, all four of us said we never thought about the fact that Jesus competes for our heart and my and my son.
19:31
Speaker 2: He was very vulnerable and honest and just saying, man, you know, sometimes I, I feel like I might be competing with Jesus, and I and I just thought, man, just that wrestle.
19:39
Speaker 2: And so we just really, in that moment, it was just a really just a powerful moment for us, the four of us, to pray and just recommit and say, okay, Lord, we're not going to push you in, we're not going to push you out.
19:49
Speaker 2: You know, we don't want to be in competition with Jesus.
19:51
Speaker 2: That's what it was.
19:54
Speaker 2: That's the worst person in the world to be in competition with is with Jesus.
19:57
Speaker 2: But then, so then, practically, we thought, okay, well, what does that look like?
20:01
Speaker 2: And so then we all just shared practically what that looks like I'm going to get up a little bit earlier, a little bit less screen time.
20:06
Speaker 2: I'm going to ask for help with chores or whatever.
20:11
Speaker 2: So that those things, because what we found was that those things that we are pulling into our life the good things, even if it's sin, that's what caused us to be in competition with Jesus.
20:22
Speaker 2: That's the way that our kids reframed it.
20:25
Speaker 2: Those things are the reason why I'm in competition with Jesus.
20:28
Speaker 2: It's not even that those things are competing with me.
20:30
Speaker 2: I'm competing with Christ because of that.
20:32
Speaker 2: My kids said that and I'm like that's a word.
20:35
Speaker 2: So then we just said, okay, that's why we have to get rid of those things, because those things are what's causing us to compete with Christ.
20:42
Speaker 2: That's why I love what you when you wrote it down, because my kids picked that up.
20:46
Speaker 3: So, if you missed the message, I use teaching TV that I can draw on now, which I'm in love with.
20:53
Speaker 2: Thank you, pastor Elmer.
20:54
Speaker 3: Jacob to our team, alex, jimmy.
20:57
Speaker 3: So you know I'm a full manuscript when I write sermons and I try to encourage that with our team as well.
21:04
Speaker 3: I grew up preaching.
21:06
Speaker 3: I didn't grow up preaching, but as I started as a preacher I was an outline guy and I would just talk off the top of my head.
21:09
Speaker 3: You know I'd prep two hours before and then could just flow.
21:13
Speaker 3: I was like man, this is so good, it's super long.
21:16
Speaker 3: So I'm typically a manuscripter and I generally read everything in my manuscript and I may add an additional 10% to 12% or whatever whoever's counting, measuring.
21:25
Speaker 3: But there are moments in a sermon that this is part of what I'm just going to insider hack on preaching, you prayerfully prepare, you prayerfully study, you prayerfully write, but then you have to prayerfully deliver and God, it's his church, so he always has the right to interrupt change.
21:44
Speaker 3: I've written full manuscripts and then walked up and said I can't preach this sermon.
21:49
Speaker 3: I got to talk about something else and kind of put scratch together something on the fly.
21:52
Speaker 3: God always has the right to interrupt, but that moment where I had written out and we worked as a team the things that compete with your heart, it was cares of the world sins of the flesh satan indifference and then indifference, which is again something people probably don't think about right, I just don't really care
22:09
Speaker 3: I'm not really passionate, but in the it was in the moment in the first service where the lord just dropped that as I was preaching it Because I'm ready to switch screens and I was like you know who else can preach for your hearts?
22:21
Speaker 3: Jesus, that was totally like a divine just flow.
22:24
Speaker 3: Let the Lord lead and more hits on that.
22:28
Speaker 3: That's to me just as a preacher.
22:30
Speaker 3: I'm just going to say it's refreshing to hear you say that, because it definitely confirms that the Lord is speaking in His church.
22:38
Speaker 3: That was from the Lord.
22:39
Speaker 3: I'm going to blame God on that, especially because the result of it was so profound for folks and that's part of boy preaching People that don't do it.
22:48
Speaker 3: You have to be studied, prayerful, prepared.
22:51
Speaker 3: You got to be ready to deliver, healthy enough on time and all these things.
22:55
Speaker 3: And watch the room, look out for bad guys, like keep an eye on what's happening.
22:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, no joke, like you're constantly scanning the room and sensitive to the Holy Spirit for moments like that.
23:05
Speaker 1: Yeah.
23:06
Speaker 3: That's just a little preaching tip, yeah Well.
23:09
Speaker 1: I had my men's walk group this past weekend and we had a gentleman show up to a group that was challenged by the sermon on following Jesus and he's like I never heard anything like that.
23:23
Speaker 1: He's like I grew up in church and he's like I had to do something, and so, you know, he referenced the story, the interaction of Jesus with the rich ruler, and he's like I had to think like what's the thing keeping me between me and Jesus?
23:38
Speaker 1: And he's, like you know, think like what's the thing keeping me between me and Jesus?
23:39
Speaker 1: And he's like, you know, I just had to make a decision.
23:41
Speaker 1: So he's like I figured this was the first step.
23:43
Speaker 1: And so he showed up to the group committed to, you know, our study in the book of Titus that we're doing.
23:48
Speaker 1: And then it was awesome just to see our small group, the men in our group, just encourage him and tell him hey, bro, this is only the first step.
23:59
Speaker 1: From here you need to serve people and then let this come to life, be a servant of Jesus, and it's just cool to see people embodying not just so much a sermon but the Word of God.
24:11
Speaker 3: So that's powerful.
24:12
Speaker 3: I love it.
24:13
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for saying that.
24:15
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting.
24:16
Speaker 3: What can be overwhelming?
24:18
Speaker 3: Going back to what you were saying about our efforts and our work and then Christ competing for us, you know, I think part of it is just very much American we're gritty, we're bootstrappers, we're hardworking, and then we have this verse working out your own salvation, with fear and trembling that all of us have been around the church.
24:35
Speaker 3: We just have it kind of built into us Okay, god saved me, I'm going to do my part and we forget that the Lord is actually pursuing us all the time he's chasing us down.
24:45
Speaker 3: Elmer, you probably can appreciate this more than we'll, even just historically.
24:50
Speaker 3: But in our tradition we have this teen talent thing called Fine Arts Festival.
24:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
24:57
Speaker 3: And in that is this thing called a arts festival, yeah, yeah, and in that is this, um, they called a human video, yes, okay.
25:03
Speaker 3: So human video is basically you're acting out a song, a Christian song, with pantomime or acting or whatever.
25:09
Speaker 3: And there has always been, like in the large groups, you know, there's a Jesus figure, there's a kid that's struggling with worldliness, whether it's drugs, alcohol, bad relationships, whatever.
25:20
Speaker 3: And I'll just tell you, you know, I was a youth pastor and college pastor and I used to evaluate singers at the Fine Arts Festival, so I've seen my share of human videos.
25:30
Speaker 3: But I will tell you, the one thing that still always gets me emotional is the human videos where they depict Jesus still reaching for that kid who doesn't know he's reaching for her and she's just, or he is in the cares of the world, and then, like, they'll depict it where the kid is struggling with, whether it's, you know, the influence of friends or sex, or drinking, and they kind of depict in all these different ways and they're grabbing at the person, pulling their clothes, pulling their arms, pulling them back, and they finally break free into the arms of Jesus.
26:05
Speaker 3: Wow, and that always gets me.
26:08
Speaker 2: Yeah.
26:09
Speaker 3: Because he's always that way.
26:10
Speaker 3: He's always pursuing us, longing for us.
26:14
Speaker 3: He doesn't cross his arms and go.
26:15
Speaker 3: I've tried with this one.
26:16
Speaker 3: I can't.
26:20
Speaker 3: I just give up.
26:21
Speaker 3: You know, parents do that to kids, friends do that to friends.
26:26
Speaker 3: People give up on people all the time, but the Lord never does.
26:27
Speaker 3: He is in constant pursuit.
26:28
Speaker 3: I mean, he literally left heaven to come to the middle of depravity in the most humble way as an act of pursuit, and he's never stopped pursuing us.
26:40
Speaker 3: So he does compete for our heart.
26:41
Speaker 3: He competes for our whole lives.
26:42
Speaker 3: He competes for our devotion and it's not because it's just good for him.
26:46
Speaker 3: It's not like he's got a whiteboard in heaven going I got one more, father.
26:50
Speaker 3: It's not a sales quota, it's good for us.
26:54
Speaker 3: That's what's amazing about our God, is what he does, and that pursuit of us is good for our eternity.
27:02
Speaker 1: I heard.
27:02
Speaker 1: I heard this preacher from Australia.
27:07
Speaker 3: So, like some old friends, say it in an accent when you quote him.
27:10
Speaker 3: That's a rule on the staff, if you love Jesus, you will follow him.
27:16
Speaker 3: He was telling this.
27:19
Speaker 3: I think it starts with good day.
27:21
Speaker 3: Good day, mate.
27:21
Speaker 3: Shrimp on a barbie.
27:22
Speaker 3: That's not a knife.
27:24
Speaker 1: But he was talking about the story of the prodigal son and I haven't done the research to kind of verify if this is culturally correct, but I trust what he was saying, so don't take me word for word.
27:36
Speaker 1: But he was explaining that in tradition that when people would leave their home and they would return, that people in the town would come out with clay pots and as they returned they would smash them in front of them as a sign of you're condemned, you're no good you will never be who you were.
27:58
Speaker 1: And so the reason he says that is the reason the father ran to the son, was because he had to outrun the voice of the people.
28:08
Speaker 1: And then he says grace will always outrun condemnation.
28:12
Speaker 2: Wow man and I'm like, oh my gosh.
28:13
Speaker 1: Like when you think about Wow, oh my gosh, like the father running to the prodigal son who's coming back repentant, but like the father went and met him and so again, that's some historical stuff.
28:24
Speaker 1: I need to look more into that.
28:25
Speaker 1: But just when he said that grace always outruns condemnation, that's amazing.
28:28
Speaker 1: And yeah, he's chasing us.
28:30
Speaker 1: Yes, we think we're coming back.
28:31
Speaker 1: We're turning it's Easter.
28:33
Speaker 1: People are going to come back to church this weekend for the first time, or maybe a long time they haven't been here, but god's been pursuing them before they even thought of coming here.
28:41
Speaker 3: Come on, you know, or to any church man, I love the story of the prodigal son.
28:44
Speaker 3: I don't know if you knew this or not, but I actually wrote a book about some of the parables.
28:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, we heard about it.
28:49
Speaker 2: It was a little ad on amazon anyway in the, in the prodigal man.
28:54
Speaker 3: I keep talking about it.
28:55
Speaker 3: I love the parables man.
28:56
Speaker 3: I don't have a son.
28:57
Speaker 3: The parables, the parable of two sons.
29:00
Speaker 3: When the son begins his long journey home, it says when he was still far off, the father saw him.
29:10
Speaker 3: Yes, which indicates the father looking.
29:13
Speaker 3: Can you imagine getting up every morning as that father looking up on the hills, going?
29:18
Speaker 3: It's today, the day my son comes home and that's his heart he's always pursuing.
29:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I love that man.
29:23
Speaker 3: That clay pot thing, that's yeah.
29:25
Speaker 3: Once you get the answers on that, yeah, confirm that and tell me, because it's that'll be in the 20th anniversary edition of my book.
29:32
Speaker 3: That's what?
29:34
Speaker 3: The gold edition.
29:34
Speaker 3: You remember when michael scott he said he's gonna write a book.
29:38
Speaker 3: It's called Somehow I, managed by Michael Scott.
29:39
Speaker 3: Over one billion copies sold.
29:40
Speaker 3: He's doing it on a little voice recorder.
29:43
Speaker 3: New York Times bestseller.
29:47
Speaker 3: That's what I'm gonna call my next book.
29:49
Speaker 3: New York.
29:50
Speaker 2: Times bestseller.
29:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, call it that.
29:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, get the sticker, get the little book, put it on the cover that's awesome.
29:56
Speaker 3: Well, and get a little butter and put it on the cover, that's awesome.
29:57
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, praise the Lord.
29:58
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, god's pursuit of us, that's incredibly powerful and I don't ever want to lose perspective on that.
30:05
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the first sermon on forgiveness, and it was a challenging sermon, it was.
30:13
Speaker 2: I mean, it was a straight punch to the face Figuratively.
30:14
Speaker 2: Well, unless that was at the punch to the face Figuratively.
30:18
Speaker 3: Well.
30:19
Speaker 2: Unless.
30:19
Speaker 3: I was at the sermon review at home.
30:21
Speaker 3: No, it was a sermon prep, it was a punch to the face.
30:28
Speaker 2: So you talk through this overarching.
30:30
Speaker 2: I love how, like this new format you have, where you start with this big theological point, then you talk through hey, here's what it means and then like practically how we live it.
30:39
Speaker 2: I just love that flow.
30:40
Speaker 2: So there's this forgiveness.
30:42
Speaker 2: While you said, forgiveness often feels like one of the hardest commands to obey, why do you think Jesus makes such a strong connection between receiving and giving forgiveness?
30:53
Speaker 2: Why, why, why, why is that?
30:55
Speaker 2: I mean, why do we struggle with that piece there, not so much the receiving but the giving of forgiveness?
30:59
Speaker 2: Why do we struggle to make that connection, that link?
31:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean.
31:02
Speaker 3: Forgiveness is ultimately the greatest act that God does towards us Right, so it becomes one of the godliest things we can do for others.
31:09
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:10
Speaker 3: I mean, okay, we quote things like Jesus didn't come to be served but to serve.
31:13
Speaker 3: So we didn't come to be served but to serve.
31:15
Speaker 3: So we'll say, hey, if you want to be like the Lord, be a servant.
31:17
Speaker 3: And then God so loved the world that he gave.
31:20
Speaker 3: If you want to be more like God, you should be a giver.
31:26
Speaker 3: So we have all these identifying qualities of God and serving and giving, and you know, giving his life for the many prayer he prayed.
31:29
Speaker 3: But forgiveness is the ultimate miracle of salvation.
31:34
Speaker 3: You're not just saved in your salvation, you're rescued from sin, and with that rescue comes forgiveness.
31:39
Speaker 3: So the greatest act of God towards us is the full pardon of our sin debt, and so now that one of the godliest things that he enables us to do is forgive people, who have a sin debt towards us.
31:54
Speaker 3: And so the parable, jesus, tells us of the unforgiving servant who owes billions in dollars to his boss.
32:00
Speaker 3: And that guy just clears the deck and says you don't owe it anymore.
32:04
Speaker 3: And he turns around and he's got a friend that owes, in today's money, $25,000, $30,000 worth of debt.
32:09
Speaker 3: And he goes and chokes the guy out and throws him in prison and the owner gets furious.
32:13
Speaker 3: He goes.
32:14
Speaker 3: Do you not understand what I've forgiven you of?
32:15
Speaker 3: And Jesus is making the point through a parable.
32:23
Speaker 3: Which parables are you know these analogies, illustrations and stories that are meant to teach a greater kingdom principle.
32:26
Speaker 3: The parable says he, in the same way that that king that forgave so much, and we forgive others.
32:34
Speaker 3: He said in the same way, we who have been forgiven of so much, can and must.
32:40
Speaker 3: Yes, he doesn't say you should.
32:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, he says you must forgive those who've said now listen, there are people with some grave amounts of offense towards them.
32:50
Speaker 3: Terrible.
32:52
Speaker 3: My friend, jeremy Austill at Cornerstone in Nashville says nobody's sin against me has the power to keep me from obeying the command to forgive them.
33:05
Speaker 3: Because, my allegiance to Christ and his command to forgive is going to be stronger than my allegiance to hold unforgiveness, my allegiance to myself to hold unforgiveness towards somebody else.
33:16
Speaker 3: Again hard teaching.
33:19
Speaker 3: It's tough, but I think when you put it in those perspectives, god is the one actually helping us to forgive.
33:25
Speaker 3: It's not like I'm doing it without him.
33:27
Speaker 3: If I'm going to forgive, I got to pray about that.
33:30
Speaker 3: So I'm going to say Lord, help me to forgive God, you've forgiven me of so much I can forgive.
33:35
Speaker 3: This is one of the greatest prayers to somebody that's offended you Go.
33:43
Speaker 3: Lord, I know you can forgive them of that, so now I need you to help me forgive them of that.
33:45
Speaker 3: If God can forgive my abuser, if God can forgive my spouse who adulterated me, if God can forgive the business partner who stole from me, if God can forgive them and you go, hey, is that something the blood could cover?
33:56
Speaker 2: Is that?
33:56
Speaker 3: something Jesus could forgive, and they go.
33:58
Speaker 3: Of course it could, but I didn't die for him.
34:00
Speaker 3: You know it's like right, but the Lord, who can forgive them, will enable you to forgive them and empower you to do it.
34:07
Speaker 3: So it is all connected Absolutely.
34:09
Speaker 2: It's connected to our walk with Jesus.
34:10
Speaker 2: Well, I love how you also drew an important distinction, Pastor Mike, between forgiveness and reconciliation, because I think that's also another barrier to people forgiving is they think, okay.
34:23
Speaker 2: Well, that means that I have to do life for this person.
34:24
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it just tees out for us again the difference, the vitally important difference, between forgiveness and reconciliation.
34:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, I heard a pastor say forgiveness is between you and God.
34:31
Speaker 3: Reconciliation will be between you and that person and forgiveness does not demand reconciliation.
34:36
Speaker 3: Now, reconciliation often demands forgiveness.
34:39
Speaker 3: So if you have it in your heart to have reconciliation, then you're going to have to forgive.
34:42
Speaker 3: You can't say let's be boys but I hate your guts and I'll never forgive you, but I don't have to have reconciliation to forgive you.
34:49
Speaker 3: One Again forgiveness doesn't demand reconciliation.
34:53
Speaker 3: Reconciliation will probably demand forgiveness if that's going to work appropriately.
34:56
Speaker 3: Some people you got to work with, some people you got to do life with, some people are just your in-laws forever, or whatever, your neighbors.
35:03
Speaker 3: They're not moving and you're not moving, so you got to be around them, but they don't necessarily, they're not coexisting all the time.
35:13
Speaker 3: And there are people that have hurt you that you should not ever trust, because reconciliation also is going to assume that person changes, yeah, and the options are either they change or you begin to accept their offenses.
35:25
Speaker 3: So you change.
35:26
Speaker 3: One of you is going to change.
35:29
Speaker 3: For reconciliation to take place, well, the hope is the person that offended changes and then you can change by embracing their faults and failures.
35:36
Speaker 3: But typically people don't change Outside of the power of the Holy Spirit.
35:41
Speaker 3: They're going to stay how they are for a long time and so if they're an abusive person, if they're a constant thief and liar and they're not open to being transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit and the gospel, then they're probably not going to change.
35:53
Speaker 3: That's what I meant by people don't change, especially outside.
35:55
Speaker 3: God can change us, but outside of that people just typically don't.
36:01
Speaker 3: But I can forgive you because that's between me and God.
36:03
Speaker 3: God's not going to hold me accountable for you changing.
36:05
Speaker 3: He is going to hold me accountable for me forgiving you.
36:08
Speaker 3: That's good.
36:09
Speaker 3: So I'm obligated to the Lord.
36:10
Speaker 3: I'm going to forgive, and one of the ways Stephanie and I have just changed our prayers is Lord, we're choosing to forgive God, we're going to forgive God.
36:22
Speaker 3: We're working on forgiveness.
36:23
Speaker 3: We just say it, we confess it, I don't even pray.
36:26
Speaker 3: Lord, would you help me forgive?
36:28
Speaker 3: I say Lord, I'm going to forgive and I'm believing you to help me to do it.
36:35
Speaker 3: I'm just already kind of in a positive posture that it's happening, it's going to happen and it'll happen.
36:38
Speaker 3: But I'm not going to reconcile with somebody who let's, let's, let's.
36:40
Speaker 3: Give an example Somebody violates one of my kids right, hurts them physically or some other way.
36:47
Speaker 3: I'm going to forgive you, but I will never put you around my children again.
36:51
Speaker 3: That's right.
36:51
Speaker 3: And I'm not going to do life with you either.
36:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, if somebody comes in this church and does something and violates our people, I will forgive you, but I'll never empower you to have especially if you won't change reconciliation.
37:06
Speaker 3: If we're going to reconcile, then you have to forgive and there has to be transformation.
37:11
Speaker 3: But I don't need you to change for me to forgive, because that's between me and God.
37:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, A lot of people want to connect their forgiveness to that person.
37:18
Speaker 3: Yes, Correct, so we go.
37:20
Speaker 3: I can't forgive until they apologize.
37:22
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, you can.
37:24
Speaker 3: What if they never see you again?
37:26
Speaker 3: What if they?
37:26
Speaker 3: What if they cut you off in traffic, cause you to wreck, roll off a hill and you lose everything.
37:32
Speaker 3: You end up in a hospital.
37:32
Speaker 3: We got that situation right now.
37:34
Speaker 3: Somebody got clipped on the interstate and their vehicle rolled four times, and she's in the hospital right now.
37:38
Speaker 3: They don't know that person and how many car accidents do we know where the person just drove off?
37:43
Speaker 3: I'm going to forgive because I have to, but I can't reconcile because I don't even know.
37:48
Speaker 3: In a hit-and-run situation or some random crime, I don't know who they are.
38:00
Speaker 3: I don't want to be your friend we weren't friends before, that's why you did it.
38:01
Speaker 3: But or we say I'll forgive when they apologize.
38:02
Speaker 3: Well, now they're in the place of power over me to behave in a way that will now bring me to a place of forgiveness.
38:06
Speaker 3: No my forgiveness is between me and God.
38:09
Speaker 3: Jesus didn't make us pay for our sins before he forgave us.
38:12
Speaker 3: Come on, he's the model.
38:14
Speaker 3: So he forgave me before I even asked him for it by dying on a cross.
38:19
Speaker 3: And I hey watch in the prayer of salvation.
38:22
Speaker 3: Right, when we lead someone to Christ, we don't lead them to go to God to get that forgiveness.
38:27
Speaker 3: We lead him in a prayer to receive his forgiveness.
38:31
Speaker 3: Yes, he's already forgiven me.
38:33
Speaker 2: Yeah.
38:33
Speaker 3: He's forgiven the person that offended me.
38:35
Speaker 3: He's forgiven the person that hurt us.
38:36
Speaker 3: So if you're new, to Jesus, I'm not going to have you pray a prayer Now, lord, would you please consider forgiving me?
38:42
Speaker 3: That's so good.
38:43
Speaker 3: We're going to lead him in a prayer that says now, lord, I receive your salvation, I accept your forgiveness.
38:48
Speaker 3: Yes, you've forgiven me.
38:50
Speaker 3: I receive it by faith.
38:51
Speaker 1: You know, come on.
38:52
Speaker 3: It's an act done apart from anybody changing.
38:54
Speaker 3: It's before I, I mean, and then he starts the work of changing me.
38:57
Speaker 3: I don't change before I get forgiven, I ask and receive the forgiveness he's given me, and then his spirit begins to change me.
39:04
Speaker 3: So we just kind of misunderstand.
39:06
Speaker 3: I think part of it's how we train our kids.
39:07
Speaker 3: We just grow up this way Everything's you know action and consequence.
39:13
Speaker 3: We're so oriented with that in schools and families.
39:16
Speaker 3: Your siblings hit, your kids hit one another.
39:18
Speaker 3: You go, apologize, okay, say you're sorry, say it's okay, now go on and get playing.
39:23
Speaker 3: So we have this kind of nature in our training as children.
39:27
Speaker 3: That's just not how God works and I'm just going to choose to forgive people.
39:30
Speaker 3: It may take me a long while.
39:32
Speaker 3: I'm not an immediate forgiver, I'll be honest about that, okay.
39:38
Speaker 3: But I'm an immediate, deciding to forgive her forever.
39:40
Speaker 3: Okay, I will forgive.
39:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I gotta work through this first.
39:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, I gotta fight you in my head.
39:44
Speaker 3: I gotta say some things in my mind, not in front of anybody you gotta I gotta work through my flesh and let him put it, crucify it before the lord amen.
39:53
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna do anything that anybody will see.
39:55
Speaker 1: I love that.
39:57
Speaker 1: Between me and the Lord.
39:58
Speaker 1: As you all worked this whole concept of forgiveness, you actually started with the Lord's Prayer.
40:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
40:03
Speaker 1: And so I went to Pastor Jerry and I.
40:07
Speaker 1: We went to one of our high schools and we spoke to the football team and all the boys knew the Lord's Prayer.
40:13
Speaker 1: And just you know, you talk to people around the world.
40:16
Speaker 3: It's such a common I learned it in ninth grade in the King's English In the King's.
40:20
Speaker 1: English, it's so common.
40:21
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's misunderstood because we don't comprehend, like the way you broke it down, like there's everything about like do this for us, do this for us, but here's I need to do something and forgiveness is that one thing that is put on us.
40:35
Speaker 2: And so I thought that was.
40:36
Speaker 2: That was brilliant.
40:37
Speaker 2: The only part of the prayer that we actually have a stake in is the forgiveness piece.
40:42
Speaker 2: As we, as we have been forgiven, help me to forgive others.
40:46
Speaker 2: That's that was again.
40:47
Speaker 2: That was a word.
40:48
Speaker 2: Never saw that before, been raised on that, and never saw that.
40:51
Speaker 2: That's I never saw.
40:51
Speaker 2: That's the part I have a stake in, that.
40:53
Speaker 2: Hey, and that's kingdom.
40:54
Speaker 2: This is a kingdom prayer.
40:57
Speaker 3: It's this, yeah, it's the central model prayer for the believer right.
40:59
Speaker 3: It includes forgiving, receiving God's forgiveness and extending our forgiveness.
41:05
Speaker 2: Yes.
41:06
Speaker 3: I'm not extending God's forgiveness.
41:07
Speaker 3: Well, the Lord will forgive you.
41:08
Speaker 3: I pray you rotten hell, but the Lord will forgive you.
41:11
Speaker 3: I'm not going to say that God has forgiven me.
41:14
Speaker 3: I can forgive you, that's how you have to think about forgiveness.
41:17
Speaker 3: God has forgiven me, I can forgive you, and so just start praying that way and I'm telling you there's a lot.
41:23
Speaker 3: Listen, people are surprised when I start telling them some of my own story and the stuff I've been through and I you know I don't put all my family's business on the street.
41:31
Speaker 3: For a lot of reasons I want to honor my parents.
41:34
Speaker 3: They're living, they listen to my sermons.
41:35
Speaker 3: It's not just my parents, but things that happened just in my life growing up.
41:41
Speaker 3: I've been forgiven of so much.
41:44
Speaker 3: In the same way that I have been forgiven, I will forgive.
41:48
Speaker 3: By the way, the reason we did a forgiveness talk and I preached on forgiveness, not even eight months ago it's because as soon as you work through forgiveness for somebody, here comes somebody else just defending you and making you mad.
42:00
Speaker 3: And that's why I think Peter I think it was, yeah, peter asked the question how many times do we have to forgive?
42:05
Speaker 3: I?
42:06
Speaker 1: mean talk about that for a second.
42:07
Speaker 1: That is so honest.
42:10
Speaker 3: Golly man.
42:11
Speaker 3: It's exhausting to have to keep.
42:12
Speaker 3: The only way to live a life of total forgiveness is to be a hermit.
42:20
Speaker 1: Where you're just never offended.
42:22
Speaker 3: Where you're never around anybody.
42:24
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yes yeah, You're never around anybody.
42:26
Speaker 2: You eliminate the risk of being offended.
42:27
Speaker 2: Dude, even monks, that's true.
42:31
Speaker 3: I go to a monastery every year and a half to two years to spend time.
42:34
Speaker 3: And you know those guys get mad at each other but they don't say anything because they have a vow of silence.
42:38
Speaker 3: They just carry their bitterness around.
42:40
Speaker 3: The only way to live an unoffended life is to be a hermit in a cave by yourself, and that's just not reasonable.
42:47
Speaker 3: You want to be offended?
42:49
Speaker 3: Go home, you will.
42:51
Speaker 3: But you just got to choose forgiveness and you got to keep walking in.
42:56
Speaker 3: So how many times do I do it?
42:57
Speaker 3: All the time?
42:57
Speaker 3: What did I say?
42:58
Speaker 3: Quit counting and keep forgiving.
42:59
Speaker 2: That's it.
43:00
Speaker 2: That was good.
43:01
Speaker 2: Quit counting and keep forgiving.
43:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, quit keeping count and keep forgiving.
43:05
Speaker 2: That's what it was.
43:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, anyway, that was.
43:09
Speaker 3: That was a great reminder.
43:11
Speaker 3: Yes, sir, that whole talk on forgiveness my friend, anthony daly um, taught me a valuable lesson on forgiving and it is in prayer which again, is what I said earlier, that's it's the lord that helps us through this.
43:23
Speaker 3: Has god helped me forgive?
43:25
Speaker 3: I know you want me to forgive this person.
43:27
Speaker 3: Anthony daly is at mosaic church and he's probably my closest pastor friend in town, not just pastor, he's just my bro.
43:34
Speaker 3: I mean, mean he's, I love the guy.
43:35
Speaker 3: Anyway, he shared a story with me.
43:38
Speaker 3: I've confessed to him about five years ago, four years ago, some real frustration.
43:41
Speaker 3: I was dealing with uh, with another uh minister and I had to tell somebody and I didn't want to put it on the, you know, social media or passive aggressive.
43:52
Speaker 3: That's my favorite way to get through some things, right, right anyway.
43:54
Speaker 3: So I'm confessing to him at a starbucks and he's just listening and I'm wanting him to sympathize with me and be like you're right, this guy is terrible.
44:01
Speaker 3: And he said are you praying about this guy?
44:03
Speaker 3: I was like, what are you talking about?
44:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, sure I pray you get exposed.
44:08
Speaker 3: I pray you're in trouble.
44:09
Speaker 3: You know, whatever he's like, yeah, you need to start praying.
44:12
Speaker 3: And then he, he said this I'm going to pray for you that God birthed forgiveness in your heart through you praying for him.
44:20
Speaker 2: Wow.
44:20
Speaker 3: I said I want to pray for him.
44:22
Speaker 2: You know like I'm a justice guy.
44:23
Speaker 3: I want that guy to be accountable, yeah, and he said I'm going to pray that God birthed a heart of forgiveness for you as you pray for him.
44:28
Speaker 3: And he told me this story about this guy that basically tried to interfere in his marriage.
44:34
Speaker 3: And before Tony was a pastor, anthony Daly was a pastor and he beat the brakes off this guy, drug him out of his vehicle on 2nd Street in Clarksville and beat him into the ground.
44:45
Speaker 3: He said the guy jumped in his car and drove to the sheriff's office to try to get away from.
44:50
Speaker 3: Anthony and then after that he became a Christ follower, he started preaching and all this stuff and like years later he sees the guy driving and he got all that rage in him again.
45:03
Speaker 3: Now that now it's like eight or 10 years later, wow, since he beat him down on second street, I mean he drug him out of his car.
45:08
Speaker 3: Had waited on him, drug him out the car, beat him into the pavement and the guy had to like flee for his life.
45:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, him out the car, beat him into the pavement and the guy had to like flee for his life.
45:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, because anthony said I was gonna kill him.
45:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, so anyway, god changes people's lives anyway, so he, he sees him and he gets so full of rage and the lord told him I want you to pray for him every day in prayer, he's just.
45:26
Speaker 3: And he said I'm not praying for him and he said I want you to pray for him every day.
45:30
Speaker 3: So anthony is so disciplined in this.
45:32
Speaker 3: He said he started praying that God would give this man a ministry greater than Reinhard Bonnke, which, if you know the great revivalist preacher he said God, I pray that you'd make him a man of God and give him a ministry greater than Reinhard Bonnke.
45:45
Speaker 3: And that's what he prayed for him Every time he'd come to mind.
45:47
Speaker 3: He'd pray for him for days, weeks, months, years.
45:49
Speaker 3: And they said Mike, I can tell you with all honesty I have no ill will.
45:53
Speaker 3: And as far as I know, the guy's preaching all around the world.
45:55
Speaker 3: He said I don't know where he's at, I don't know what he's doing, but as far as I know, god's using him to change the world.
46:00
Speaker 3: And he said and I'm so proud of him and I was like what he said I want God to change your heart for that person as you pray for him, for forgiveness.
46:09
Speaker 1: It's just valuable.
46:10
Speaker 3: It's a different way of looking because we're so vengeful and so get you back and pay back culture.
46:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just not the way of forgiveness, man it's so good.
46:18
Speaker 1: It's so good as we're coming up to easter, so that easter's this weekend.
46:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, is there anything that you'd like for everyone?
46:26
Speaker 1: Listening to this podcast before you start to, to know about the weekend?
46:31
Speaker 3: or yeah.
46:32
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I just my my hope and the reason I do what I do and why our team does what we do, is we just want you fully devoted to jesus, I mean every part of your life oriented to the lord.
46:43
Speaker 3: And I think it's a great constant, evaluative, evaluative question to say is every part of my life oriented to the lord?
46:50
Speaker 3: and, if not, fix it like adjust it yeah um, he's giving you so much grace, he's giving you so much mercy, he's given you so much mercy and he keeps pursuing and inviting you.
46:58
Speaker 3: So we have this.
46:59
Speaker 3: Is it 10 area?
47:02
Speaker 1: Kind of checkup thing that we use in our strong men's night.
47:07
Speaker 3: Tuesday nights.
47:07
Speaker 3: But we look at basically on a scale of 1 to 10, am I surrendered to the Lord in my finances, in my family, in my marriage, in my work, in my family, in my marriage, in my work, in my physical health, in my spiritual life, my church attendance, on a zero to 10 scale?
47:21
Speaker 3: Am I surrendered in all 10 areas of my life?
47:23
Speaker 3: And no one's ever getting a perfect 10 in all those areas.
47:25
Speaker 3: But my greatest hope for all of us is that we see this gospel as this constant invitation to go all in with Jesus and that is the call of the second sermon to follow him completely.
47:35
Speaker 3: So as we head into Easter, we're dealing with the question of why did he have to die?
47:40
Speaker 3: And I kind of sympathize with Peter for a lot of reasons.
47:44
Speaker 3: I pick on the guy sometimes in preaching.
47:45
Speaker 3: I say he had foot and mouth disease and he always said dumb stuff.
47:49
Speaker 3: And honestly, I've been the young leader in the room raising his hand going.
47:55
Speaker 3: Can I ask a question?
47:55
Speaker 3: And everybody else rolls their eyes but I just didn't know.
47:58
Speaker 3: And there are times where I think Peter and some of the other disciples they were just trying to figure this out.
48:06
Speaker 3: But I mean, I totally.
48:10
Speaker 3: I can sympathize with him when he's standing with the Messiah who's done miracles, raised the dead, walked on water, fed thousands with a lunchbox.
48:14
Speaker 3: I mean he's done all these miraculous things.
48:17
Speaker 3: And Peter's probably thinking I have no right to be in this room and to be with this guy, to be with this man, this God, this Jesus.
48:25
Speaker 3: And then Jesus is talking about I'm going to die for the sins of the world and Peter responds.
48:32
Speaker 3: It's really honest.
48:34
Speaker 3: He says no, lord, I'm not going to let anything happen to you.
48:37
Speaker 3: And it's very like short-sighted in the moment but, it's also probably motivated with a lot of love and devotion, and he's the one that really motivated the question that we're asking at Easter Why'd you have to die?
48:47
Speaker 3: Why do you have to die?
48:48
Speaker 3: You ever have like seasons of change in your life, like you've moved continents and your kids would go.
48:55
Speaker 3: Why are we doing this, dad?
48:56
Speaker 2: Why do?
48:56
Speaker 3: we have to go there and you know we've got a lot of soldiers who have committed their lives to the military and they PCS or they deploy, they go to training and their kids wrestle especially when they're younger going.
49:07
Speaker 3: I don't understand that.
49:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, why do you have to do that, dad?
49:09
Speaker 3: I think that's where Peter was.
49:11
Speaker 3: I think that's where Peter was.
49:12
Speaker 3: He's thinking this is the greatest break of my entire family history.
49:16
Speaker 3: We don't have some long legacy of Peter.
49:19
Speaker 2: Yeah.
49:19
Speaker 3: Throughout the whole, threaded through the whole Old Testament.
49:22
Speaker 2: Yeah.
49:23
Speaker 3: It's probably the greatest thing that's ever happened to the Peters you know, the whole line of Peters families.
49:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's probably honestly going, I don't want this to end.
49:32
Speaker 3: But in order for it to end, I mean in order for it to end, I mean in order for it to impact everyone else, yeah, it had to end for peter and then expand to everyone else.
49:40
Speaker 3: So we're asking that question and I think it's an honest question from peter and and you know, I think a lot of christians, if they're honest, they love what christianity has done for them and they love how jesus has changed their lives and blessed their lives and given them a church they love, but a lot of Christians don't think beyond that.
50:00
Speaker 3: Why do you have to die?
50:01
Speaker 3: He died for you.
50:02
Speaker 2: Yes.
50:03
Speaker 3: And he died for them and he's still extending that reach, he's still inviting the world.
50:08
Speaker 3: So that's what we're getting ready for for Easter.
50:11
Speaker 3: It's mission of God, it's the heart of God's mission that we see all the way in Genesis.
50:15
Speaker 3: Yes, and if there were Bible written before Genesis, before the world was formed, we would have seen a note that said oh, and by the way, god's about to do some cool stuff and there will be a day when he even dies for the things that he created.
50:30
Speaker 2: Because the scripture says before the foundation of the world, that's right.
50:35
Speaker 3: So I love the Easter story.
50:37
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a culmination.
50:39
Speaker 3: It's actually the oldest story we call Christmas, the oldest story ever.
50:43
Speaker 3: Easter is the oldest story ever thought of.
50:46
Speaker 3: I think God came up with the idea of the incarnation after he came up with the idea of the death and resurrection.
50:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, how am I going to get down there?
50:57
Speaker 3: I mean, he knew, for I'm just probably spitballing and maybe a little sacrilegious, but he came up with that second, because the death, burial and resurrection of Christ was before the foundation of the world.
51:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Mary did you know came along later you know what I'm saying?
51:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, what a great God we serve.
51:17
Speaker 3: Amen, and I think it's an honest question.
51:19
Speaker 3: Why do you have to die?
51:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to wrestle with that one.
51:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you're listening to this, watching this, before Easter, we want to encourage you.
51:27
Speaker 1: You know, invite somebody.
51:28
Speaker 1: Our pastors this weekend mentioned that it's, I think Pastor Rose said 99% of people that you invite to church actually attend.
51:38
Speaker 3: His statistics are impressive His statistics was really really, I think the stat is 80, roughly 80 to 85% of unchurched people.
51:45
Speaker 3: This is about a 20 year old stat from Barna Research.
51:47
Speaker 3: But about 80 to 85% of people who don't attend church would attend if they were invited by a friend.
51:52
Speaker 3: That's it right there, and why?
51:55
Speaker 3: Did Jesus have to die For that friend that you're inviting?
51:58
Speaker 1: That's why, and so it's worth taking the time making the phone calls, sending the texts, just getting on social media and just inviting a friend, a DM, somebody, and so get the word out.
52:08
Speaker 1: Come on Get to church, be a bringer, and there's no one beyond his pursuit.
52:17
Speaker 3: That's right, amen.
52:17
Speaker 3: Let me just say this, like we fully embrace the theology that God so loved the whole world.
52:19
Speaker 3: That's right.
52:20
Speaker 3: And I was just reading first John two, two, I think it is, since I have my Bible here.
52:23
Speaker 3: Whatever, um, I don't want to misquote this, but I just was reading it in preparation for Sunday.
52:29
Speaker 3: It's first John two, two.
52:31
Speaker 3: That is love extended, um, to all of creation.
52:35
Speaker 3: Let me see, he is the propitiation, the payment, the full payment for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
52:45
Speaker 3: That's right.
52:45
Speaker 3: And let me just encourage you with who you invite.
52:48
Speaker 3: Some people think, well, I'll invite the easy friends or the ones that have a church background or maybe just are out of church for a little while.
52:53
Speaker 3: I want you to invite the worst hell raiser you can possibly imagine the person that would live, and we've had these people in our church.
53:00
Speaker 3: That said, if I go to church, the roof would cave in on me.
53:03
Speaker 2: That's who I want you to invite, yeah.
53:05
Speaker 3: Because why did Jesus have to die For that person Come?
53:08
Speaker 2: on, that's good, and that's.
53:10
Speaker 3: those people just inspire the inspired the fire out of me.
53:11
Speaker 3: I mean I love when they show up to our church.
53:13
Speaker 3: I remember years ago we had a guy.
53:15
Speaker 3: He'd never been to church in his life, rough dude, navy guy on a ship for years.
53:20
Speaker 3: Then he's an air traffic controller, burly dude, looks like Bluto from Popeye.
53:25
Speaker 3: He's this rough sailor, big old beard, massive dude, and he gave his life to Jesus at our church.
53:31
Speaker 3: I think he maybe grew up a little bit as Catholic for some part of his life, but anyway, totally unchurched, came to our church, gave his life to Jesus, got into a Bible study doing small group and he just kept cussing.
53:42
Speaker 3: He was like I gotta get my mouth under control.
53:44
Speaker 3: So one day I took him.
53:45
Speaker 3: We were going to lunch, he was just pouring it out.
53:52
Speaker 3: I was like what's going on?
53:53
Speaker 3: He said I'm cussing, I'm praying and I keep cussing.
53:57
Speaker 3: And he said I'll start praying and I'll say the F word or this word.
54:01
Speaker 3: He said man, I can't even F and pray without cussing.
54:05
Speaker 3: And that's how he exasperated himself right at the lunch table at Cheddar's.
54:11
Speaker 3: It was so great and I'm like dude, if you even know like the angels rejoice they're not shocked by your language.
54:19
Speaker 2: They're not sitting in heaven going.
54:20
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, what did he say?
54:21
Speaker 2: Yeah.
54:23
Speaker 3: They're so grateful.
54:24
Speaker 3: I'm just telling you, man, jesus died for the whole world, amen.
54:28
Speaker 3: Not for Christians.
54:30
Speaker 3: He didn't die for a select few of middle-class people, that's right.
54:33
Speaker 3: He died for the whole world.
54:33
Speaker 3: So I want to encourage you for Easter, we're going to present the gospel and I want you to tell anybody that you can think of and get them to church, because this message is for them, amen.
54:44
Speaker 2: Amen, come on, let's encourage you.
54:45
Speaker 2: Amen, amen, we'll be encouraged.
54:47
Speaker 2: Amen, come on somebody.
54:48
Speaker 2: I'm excited absolutely just.
54:52
Speaker 1: You're gonna look at the camera and just tell them to extend their hand out.
54:55
Speaker 3: Look like a televangelist and at the bottom of the screen there's gonna be a 800 number.
55:00
Speaker 2: There is a QR code popping up, if you want some prayer cloth if you wouldn't mind someone to this ministry?
55:07
Speaker 2: Alright, we're about done, here we'll see you again, love you.