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#109 - Poltergeist Part II · Phantom Journey's Podcast

0:18
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Phantom Journeys Podcast with your mortal hosts Max McGurke and Kid Smith.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: Join us as we uncover paranormal mysteries, thrilling tales and legends that scare us the most.
0:36
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0:52
SPEAKER_05: Hey Ken.
0:53
SPEAKER_05: Hey Matt, how are you?
0:55
SPEAKER_05: Good.
0:55
SPEAKER_05: Welcome back.
0:56
SPEAKER_05: Welcome back to part two of the Poltergeist.
1:01
SPEAKER_05: In this episode, we will be talking about the Enfield Poltergeist.
1:04
SPEAKER_05: Because I think it's a very powerful episode.
1:07
SPEAKER_06: What about the outfield poltergeist?
1:10
SPEAKER_05: There's probably one there, too.
1:11
SPEAKER_06: Well, because you got the infield players and you got the outfield players.
1:14
SPEAKER_05: In not in.
1:16
SPEAKER_06: So I said infield.
1:17
SPEAKER_05: And the outfield.
1:18
SPEAKER_05: I'm sure there's plenty of.
1:20
SPEAKER_05: Who's on first?
1:21
SPEAKER_05: Who's on second?
1:22
SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
1:23
SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
1:23
SPEAKER_06: What's on second and I don't know is on third.
1:26
SPEAKER_06: Who?
1:26
SPEAKER_06: Who is on first?
1:28
SPEAKER_06: Why?
1:28
SPEAKER_06: Oh, no, he's pitching.
1:33
SPEAKER_05: Anyways.
1:33
SPEAKER_05: Anyhow, so yeah, um, a good week.
1:39
SPEAKER_06: He got himself flustered, he didn't know what to say next.
1:42
SPEAKER_06: You have yourself a good week.
1:43
SPEAKER_06: I did.
1:44
SPEAKER_06: I did.
1:45
SPEAKER_06: Um basically just went to work, came home, just played some Starfield.
1:50
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:50
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:51
SPEAKER_06: I did do a little bit more writing.
1:53
SPEAKER_06: That's good.
1:54
SPEAKER_06: That's good.
1:54
SPEAKER_05: But you know what?
1:55
SPEAKER_05: One thing I haven't really talked much about in the past uh four episodes, and I I did mention a little bit.
2:00
SPEAKER_05: I I did write a book.
2:02
SPEAKER_05: Um I am one, maybe two chapters to finish.
2:08
SPEAKER_05: And I'm thinking I'm ready to publish it.
2:10
SPEAKER_05: You know, I'm actually gonna put it on Phantom Journey's podcast itself on the site.
2:13
SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah?
2:14
SPEAKER_05: Cool, cool.
2:15
SPEAKER_05: So uh hopefully you'll help.
2:17
SPEAKER_06: Have you considered instead of self-publishing, actually uh put it together and send it off to uh uh literary agent first?
2:23
SPEAKER_06: I I wouldn't even know where to begin.
2:24
SPEAKER_06: I can help you with that.
2:25
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, okay, cool.
2:26
SPEAKER_06: Sounds good.
2:27
SPEAKER_06: Okay, let's not that I'm I'm wanting withhold it from everybody, but if you can get a uh literary agent and then it gets poked up by an actual publishing company.
2:36
SPEAKER_06: That's true.
2:36
SPEAKER_06: That is true.
2:37
SPEAKER_06: And I'm speaking from someone that's done self-publishing, you're on a better route that way.
2:41
SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
2:41
SPEAKER_05: I have self-published personally before, but we have to cancel out one book.
2:45
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I'm sorry.
2:46
SPEAKER_06: I've self-published my my novel, and I went through a company that printed it for me, and so but to get it, I just can't just put it out there for people.
2:58
SPEAKER_06: So even though I own it all, yeah.
3:00
SPEAKER_06: So I'm just saying that maybe for that route, yeah, maybe for for this book you look into it.
3:06
SPEAKER_06: And if it doesn't go anywhere, then you can always go into self-publishing.
3:08
SPEAKER_05: That's it.
3:09
SPEAKER_05: It'd be good because one of my biggest like personal dreams is to have a book on my shelf with my name on it.
3:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
3:16
SPEAKER_05: And and while I did get that kind of goal done, some stuff happened and I had to pull it.
3:23
SPEAKER_05: So I technically I don't even like to look at that book anymore.
3:25
SPEAKER_05: So it's banana.
3:26
SPEAKER_06: It's kind of a bad experience, but uh it from having uh that experience in having a book that's still available on Amazon.
3:35
SPEAKER_06: If people wanted to go check it out, I'm right under the name Chester Quinn, and the book's name is the Airship Artemis.
3:40
SPEAKER_06: That's right, yeah.
3:40
SPEAKER_06: How was that doing?
3:41
SPEAKER_06: Uh it's not doing very well because nobody knows who the hell I am.
3:44
SPEAKER_06: Well, yeah, well, you know, we should you should put that on the site as well.
3:48
SPEAKER_06: But that's that's where I come back to I have to buy copies of my own books to be able to sell them.
3:55
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, right.
3:55
SPEAKER_05: Sorry, yeah.
3:56
SPEAKER_06: No, I mean that it's just and I don't know how else you could do it, I guess.
4:01
SPEAKER_06: It just it's just you have to the whole process was not what I don't know how to I enjoyed it, but I was very frustrated because some I believe some of the items that were told to me didn't pan out.
4:17
SPEAKER_06: No, like one of the promises that were made that my book would be available to all Barnes and Nobles and all those guys, yeah, and that my book would be available.
4:28
SPEAKER_06: Well, it is.
4:30
SPEAKER_06: I went in and special ordered it, but being that it's self-published, there it's not ever going to be a title that just shows up on this on the shelves, yeah, which I feel I was a little misled by.
4:39
SPEAKER_06: Well, because that's why I chose that route.
4:41
SPEAKER_06: It's because like, oh, this would be an easy way, easier way to get notes to get onto the shelves.
4:47
SPEAKER_06: And I and I had and I spent a lot of money hiring an artist to get a catching cover.
4:53
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I figured if I could just get on the shelves with a catchy name and a catchy cover, maybe I'd get start getting a few more sales.
5:01
SPEAKER_06: And things like that did not unfortunately no.
5:04
SPEAKER_05: But you know what?
5:05
SPEAKER_05: But it was a learning experience.
5:06
SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
5:07
SPEAKER_05: All we need to do is just go through a crossroads and sell ourselves.
5:10
SPEAKER_05: There we go.
5:10
SPEAKER_05: And then we'd be, you know, I don't know if I don't know if I was selling.
5:14
SPEAKER_05: Not so much famous, but you know, just having people read your book, I think that's the biggest thing you really want, isn't it?
5:20
SPEAKER_06: Just someone to understand not even understand it, but just to it it's oh, so I've actually done some book uh signings.
5:28
SPEAKER_06: Um there for the few first few years that came out.
5:31
SPEAKER_06: Um I was at uh Pasadena did an art fair and the public library invited me for the first three years my book came out to actually come and do uh author signings.
5:41
SPEAKER_06: So I was there uh along with some other authors that they invited, and I fact that I had stacks of my book at that time and I was selling books, and people were coming up and talking to.
5:52
SPEAKER_06: And it was for me, it was very rewarding and fulfilling at that point because I did garner more people at my table than people got in the whole night that they got there, yeah.
6:06
SPEAKER_06: And so it was it was great getting that recognition, it was great selling the books, it was great.
6:12
SPEAKER_06: People wanted me to sign them and whatnot.
6:15
SPEAKER_06: I love that part.
6:16
SPEAKER_05: That's good.
6:17
SPEAKER_06: I did, it's just the whole publishing ordeal.
6:20
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's and just it's really soul crushing to me.
6:23
SPEAKER_05: You know what, you know what's really soul crushing as well is the the cost of being of editing and getting like different you need like four or five different kind of editors.
6:31
SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
6:32
SPEAKER_06: And and I I'm stealing a quote from another author that I can't remember who said it, but she basically said, I love being published, not getting published.
6:42
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and bad in fact that she that the fact that she loved it when the book was already out, but getting to that process was not her favorite.
6:49
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and I agree with that.
6:50
SPEAKER_06: The I loved writing the first draft, even the second or third times going through, but by the time you get to the fifth and sixth time, you just get bored.
6:57
SPEAKER_06: It's like I am so tired of this.
6:59
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, big time.
7:00
SPEAKER_06: And you and but then you put it down for a while and you pick it up, it's like, oh, this is really good.
7:04
SPEAKER_06: Yes, I get okay, I see how it's getting better.
7:07
SPEAKER_06: But you just get really just like, why am I changing the same sentence five times already?
7:12
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and it's and it really does.
7:14
SPEAKER_06: If you got the right see, and that's the other frustration I had.
7:17
SPEAKER_06: I paid an uh uh an editor a lot.
7:21
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean, I took out a loan to cover hiring this editor, and then halfway through the book I realized she has no idea what she what what what my book is about.
7:32
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, she it's just not her genre of editing.
7:35
SPEAKER_06: That's the problem.
7:37
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:37
SPEAKER_06: You know, so like the what the one we got into an argument because she wanted me to take out a phrase that said, we go in t minus 10 seconds.
7:45
SPEAKER_06: T minus 10.
7:47
SPEAKER_06: Well, everybody's we've seen a rocket launch, everybody knows that t minus whatever the number is, is that's how many seconds are left or minutes.
7:54
SPEAKER_06: What did she want?
7:55
SPEAKER_06: She didn't understand what that was.
7:57
SPEAKER_06: She said, No one's gonna understand that, you can't have it in there.
7:59
SPEAKER_06: And we had a big like knockout argument, and finally I left it in there because like I don't understand how, and then I realized she doesn't understand my the genre of the book that she said she knew, the genre she knew.
8:13
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and then at that point I was under a contract, and I ended up, in my opinion, wasting a couple of thousands of dollars on this person that I don't feel like I got the final edit that I needed.
8:28
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and I actually, as I read the book now, even that's half time, I still like it, but I feel it could have gone through like maybe three more three more rewrites or three more edits that and that was why I was hiring this person to get me to that point.
8:42
SPEAKER_06: So absolutely anyways, so you know what?
8:45
SPEAKER_06: Oh, you know what?
8:46
SPEAKER_06: I really drifted off subject.
8:47
SPEAKER_05: Uh you know, that's okay because it we're just talking about real life as well.
8:51
SPEAKER_06: You just you just got me on that point, but yeah, having the book written, having the cover, I mean there's nothing else.
8:58
SPEAKER_06: There's nothing else that's more satisfying.
9:00
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so that's you know that you all those words there you put together, you put that story together.
9:04
SPEAKER_06: Did I I was at one of the book signings, and this kid begged his mom because he got to get one book that was there, and it was mine.
9:15
SPEAKER_06: And she was a little hesitant because I was a little bit more adult than what he was or you know, his age.
9:21
SPEAKER_06: But no, it was just it's like he was fighting tooth and nail to convince her that that was the book that he had to have.
9:29
SPEAKER_06: And that stuff like that just makes you feel amazing.
9:32
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so absolutely.
9:33
SPEAKER_06: Anyway, absolutely.
9:34
SPEAKER_05: Well, you know what?
9:35
SPEAKER_05: Look, best look to you your anything that we do in the future, and that's how you chill.
9:41
SPEAKER_05: We're gonna take a little short break.
9:42
SPEAKER_05: And when we come back, when we come back, we'll be back on the topic of poker guys.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: Ethan Death needs a break.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: Stay tuned, we'll be right back.
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10:08
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10:09
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10:40
SPEAKER_03: And we're back.
10:41
SPEAKER_03: And another thing.
10:44
SPEAKER_06: I I'm joking.
10:46
SPEAKER_06: I'm not gonna mention anymore about books.
10:48
SPEAKER_05: So this one, this episode is mainly based on the house on Green Street name, which we'll know the title of as the Enfield Power Ghost.
10:58
SPEAKER_05: Now, if you don't know that title, where have you been?
11:01
SPEAKER_05: Under a rock?
11:02
SPEAKER_05: Ender or Ender or Rock?
11:04
SPEAKER_05: Under I said I said under a rock.
11:05
SPEAKER_06: I know you said under or I said ender.
11:07
SPEAKER_06: Oh anyway.
11:08
SPEAKER_06: I was gonna say let's let's pull up and uh go with maps that address real quick and see if what's a house looks like today.
11:16
SPEAKER_05: That's true.
11:16
SPEAKER_05: We'll do that now.
11:17
SPEAKER_05: We'll we'll do that.
11:19
SPEAKER_06: I think it's this house.
11:20
SPEAKER_06: The one that looks different from everyone else's with all the other cameras.
11:24
SPEAKER_05: Oh my god.
11:24
SPEAKER_05: Oh my god, there's like one, two.
11:26
SPEAKER_05: Well, I don't think that's an immersion, but okay, there's one, two, two, two, these are cameras four, five, six, seven.
11:34
SPEAKER_06: Did you count that one?
11:35
SPEAKER_06: I think so.
11:38
SPEAKER_06: There are seven cameras just around the around the front door.
11:42
SPEAKER_05: Uh that's an antenna.
11:47
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
11:47
SPEAKER_05: Wow.
11:48
SPEAKER_06: And then compare it to like nobody else has any surveillance cameras, but this house has seven cameras covering the front door.
11:54
SPEAKER_05: And there's a primary scroll right across the street.
11:58
SPEAKER_05: That's weird.
11:59
SPEAKER_05: Anyways, that is interesting.
12:01
SPEAKER_05: So interesting.
12:02
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
12:02
SPEAKER_06: So you could say that was the house.
12:05
SPEAKER_06: That's the house.
12:07
SPEAKER_05: It began as an ordinary council estate in northern London.
12:11
SPEAKER_05: The house at 284 Green Street in Enfield looked no different from the hundreds surrounding it, apart from all the security cameras, apparently.
12:19
SPEAKER_05: Well, I guess that was before that.
12:21
SPEAKER_06: But there's then now if you look at it on Google Maps.
12:24
SPEAKER_06: Seven cameras covering the front door.
12:25
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
12:26
SPEAKER_06: Imagine what's in the back door.
12:28
SPEAKER_06: I wonder.
12:31
SPEAKER_06: Anyway.
12:32
SPEAKER_06: I was just curious.
12:34
SPEAKER_06: Obviously, someone lives there now.
12:36
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, they and they were stupid enough to buy a house that was famous, so now they had to put up they had to put up all these cameras.
12:42
SPEAKER_06: That means they probably got it at a bargain.
12:44
SPEAKER_06: Maybe.
12:44
SPEAKER_06: I wonder if they're having still having issues.
12:47
SPEAKER_06: Who knows?
12:47
SPEAKER_06: Probably it's just with the living coming trying to take souvenirs off the house.
12:51
unknown: Maybe.
12:53
SPEAKER_05: Built after the war, it was small, plain, and practical.
12:57
SPEAKER_05: Nothing about its brick walls or narrow garden hinted that it would be b it would become one of the most investigated paranormal cases in history.
13:07
SPEAKER_05: Inside lived Peggy Huggson and her four children.
13:11
SPEAKER_05: Peggy was recently divorced, struggling to raise a family alone while working long hours.
13:19
SPEAKER_05: Life had already been difficult enough without what happened during the final days of August in 1977.
13:25
SPEAKER_05: Ooh, and here we are in August of 2026.
13:28
SPEAKER_05: Almost almost 50 years later.
13:30
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, exactly.
13:31
SPEAKER_05: According to the family, it started with noise.
13:34
SPEAKER_05: As it always does.
13:36
SPEAKER_05: Late one evening, eleven-year-old Janet and her older brother Pete complained about their beds uh complained that their beds were shaking.
13:45
SPEAKER_05: Peggy dismissed it as children playing games until she heard it herself, a dull knocking echoing from somewhere inside the bedroom.
13:54
SPEAKER_05: She entered expecting to catch the children fooling around.
13:58
SPEAKER_05: Instead the knocking continued and after everyone stood perfectly st and after everyone stood perfectly still.
14:06
SPEAKER_05: At first it sounded almost deliberate.
14:09
SPEAKER_05: Three heavy knocks and then silence.
14:14
SPEAKER_05: Three more.
14:17
SPEAKER_05: Peggy searched the room, checking the windows, the pipes, and even the walls shared with the neighbors, but nothing explained the sound.
14:25
SPEAKER_05: Whatever was causing it seemed to have moved around the room, always out of reach.
14:30
SPEAKER_06: Can you imagine being the neighbors?
14:32
SPEAKER_06: I know, right?
14:33
SPEAKER_06: You're sharing a common wall, and one day Peggy shows up.
14:37
SPEAKER_06: Excuse me.
14:39
SPEAKER_06: Have you been banging on the wall?
14:41
SPEAKER_06: And you're like, why would I be banging on your wall?
14:43
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
14:44
SPEAKER_06: Well, we're hearing banging on the wall.
14:46
SPEAKER_06: Well, I'm not banging on your wall.
14:48
SPEAKER_06: You know, you keep going several ways where they get mad at each other, like, let me get this straight.
14:52
SPEAKER_06: You're saying there's a ghost in your place?
14:55
SPEAKER_06: And you're hearing banging from my side of the wall?
14:58
SPEAKER_06: I wonder if they heard banging on their side of the wall.
15:00
SPEAKER_06: That's true.
15:01
SPEAKER_05: That's that's the thing.
15:02
SPEAKER_05: The following night things became stranger.
15:05
SPEAKER_05: A heavy chest of drawers prepared to slide several feet across the bedroom floor without anyone touching it.
15:12
SPEAKER_05: Peggy later claimed she tried pushing it back herself but couldn't move it.
15:17
SPEAKER_05: Only after her son joined her they were able to force it into place.
15:21
SPEAKER_06: It's because the poltergeist was probably pushed on the other side.
15:24
SPEAKER_06: That's true.
15:25
SPEAKER_06: Peggy called the police.
15:28
SPEAKER_06: Again, we talked about this earlier on part one, like I can't push this dresser back.
15:34
SPEAKER_06: I must call the police.
15:36
SPEAKER_06: Freeze! Get back into place around with a shoe.
15:40
SPEAKER_05: Sorry.
15:41
SPEAKER_05: One officer, Constable Carolyn Heaps, arrived expecting nothing more than another domestic disturbance, but during her visit she reportedly watched a chair move several feet across the room on its own.
15:55
SPEAKER_05: She later stated that she examined the chair afterwards but found nothing that could explain its movement.
16:01
SPEAKER_05: That single statement transformed a family mystery into something much larger.
16:06
SPEAKER_05: Bom bum bom Within days, reporters were knocking on the front door.
16:12
SPEAKER_05: Neighbours began sharing stories of hearing strange noises coming from the house.
16:16
SPEAKER_05: Some claimed they had seen cortons moving when no one appeared to be inside.
16:20
SPEAKER_05: Others reported hearing foreign chair crashing in the middle of the night.
16:24
SPEAKER_05: Most assumed the children were playing tricks.
16:27
SPEAKER_05: Then they in then the investigators arrived.
16:30
SPEAKER_04: Hello, I'm the investigator, and I've arrived.
16:34
SPEAKER_05: The Society of Psychol Research spent sent two men to investigate Maurice Gross and Guy Lion Playfair.
16:44
SPEAKER_06: One guy's name is Gross and the other guy Guy Lion Playfair.
16:49
SPEAKER_05: Gross and Playfair.
16:50
SPEAKER_05: Neither expected to become a part of the case that would dominate the years of their lives.
16:55
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that's going back to their episode of the crossroads.
16:58
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
16:59
SPEAKER_05: At first, they approached the house with healthy skepticism.
17:04
SPEAKER_05: I doubt this is a house.
17:05
SPEAKER_05: Oh no, it looks like a house.
17:06
SPEAKER_05: No, I doubt this is a house and this is a real house.
17:10
SPEAKER_05: Children often exaggerated.
17:12
SPEAKER_05: Families under stressful situations sometimes misunderstood ordinary events.
17:17
SPEAKER_05: But during their first visit, they report with witnessing knockings appear to answer questions.
17:25
SPEAKER_05: One single knock for yes, two knocks for no.
17:28
SPEAKER_05: Is this a house?
17:30
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
17:33
SPEAKER_05: No.
17:35
SPEAKER_05: The sound seemed intelligent.
17:41
SPEAKER_06: Hmm, that one sounded a little flat.
17:42
SPEAKER_06: It must not be intelligent.
17:46
SPEAKER_05: Sometimes they came from inside the walls, and other times beneath the floor.
17:50
SPEAKER_05: Investigators marked locations, searched for hidden mechanisms, and inspected the house repeatedly, and yet the source remained uh elusive.
18:00
SPEAKER_05: I could just see them.
18:03
SPEAKER_06: With the chainsaw, I'm gonna go looking for True.
18:07
SPEAKER_05: Then these disturbances escalated.
18:10
SPEAKER_05: Objects began flying.
18:12
SPEAKER_05: Small ties were reportedly thrown across rooms without visible call uh causes.
18:17
SPEAKER_05: Lego bricks scattered through the air, marbles rolled uphill, cushions launched themselves some chairs.
18:24
SPEAKER_06: Nice.
18:25
SPEAKER_05: The family describes So far, it's mostly soft stuff.
18:28
SPEAKER_05: Well, a marble.
18:29
SPEAKER_05: Well, yeah, soft.
18:31
SPEAKER_05: No, then no, marbles just rolled a pill.
18:32
SPEAKER_05: They're not flying.
18:33
SPEAKER_05: Cushions, well, you know, getting hit by a cushion in T or something.
18:35
SPEAKER_05: Or maybe a Legos will get you.
18:36
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, on your feet.
18:37
SPEAKER_05: Just go right into your foot as you're going to step.
18:39
SPEAKER_05: Ah or the D4.
18:42
SPEAKER_05: Damn you, Poltergo.
18:45
SPEAKER_05: The family described living in constant anticipation, never knowing when the next disturbance would occur.
18:51
SPEAKER_05: Right now?
18:52
SPEAKER_05: So doors slamming, lights flickering, water appeared unexpectedly, furniture shifting.
18:59
SPEAKER_05: Well, if you scare me mad enough, water is going to appear unexpectedly.
19:03
SPEAKER_05: I'm just saying.
19:04
SPEAKER_05: True.
19:05
SPEAKER_05: The investigators spent hundreds of hours inside the house documenting each report, often uh waiting through long periods where nothing would happen at all before activity suddenly erupted again.
19:18
SPEAKER_05: But nothing drew more attention than Janet.
19:21
SPEAKER_05: The eleven-year-old became the center of almost every major incident.
19:27
SPEAKER_05: Witnesses claimed that she levitated from her bed on several occasions.
19:31
SPEAKER_05: That might get me a little concerned.
19:33
SPEAKER_05: True.
19:34
SPEAKER_05: Photographs captured her airborne seemingly suspended above the mattress with her arms outstretched.
19:41
SPEAKER_06: Now that those have actually raised a lot of skepticism because it also looks like that she might have been jumping off the bed and caught mid-air.
19:51
SPEAKER_06: I mean that that's yeah, with picture it's harder because we'll post some of these pictures in the links or in the gallery so you can see some of these as well.
20:00
SPEAKER_06: Now if she had levitated on camera, that would have been a little different story.
20:04
SPEAKER_06: That's true.
20:05
SPEAKER_06: That's true.
20:06
SPEAKER_05: To believers, the images showed a child lifted by an unseen force.
20:11
SPEAKER_05: To skeptics they showed a girl jumping from her bed at precisely the moment that the camera showed her clicked.
20:18
SPEAKER_05: Even today, those thought of wraps remain among the most debated images in the paranormal history.
20:25
SPEAKER_05: Then the voice came.
20:26
SPEAKER_05: Hello, I'm the voice.
20:28
SPEAKER_05: Witnesses claimed Janet began speaking in a deep, gravelly tone completely unlike her own.
20:35
SPEAKER_05: The voice identified itself as Bill Wilkins, an elderly man who had lived uh who had once lived in the house years before.
20:45
SPEAKER_05: Hello, Mr.
20:46
SPEAKER_05: Wilkins.
20:48
SPEAKER_06: Oh, well, that's too bad.
20:50
SPEAKER_06: Is he still there?
20:51
SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
20:52
SPEAKER_06: Maybe they found him.
20:53
SPEAKER_06: Maybe they didn't.
20:54
SPEAKER_05: Doctors later explained uh examined Janet while she produced the voice.
20:59
SPEAKER_05: Nothing that she had nothing that she appeared capable of sustaining it for unusually Wait, I'm sorry.
21:08
SPEAKER_05: Doctors lately examined Janet while she produced the voice, noting that she appeared capable of sustaining it for unusually long periods without obvious damage to her vocal vocal ports.
21:21
SPEAKER_05: Skeptics argued she was simply using her vinicular folds to create the effect.
21:28
SPEAKER_05: Believers pointed to interviews where the voice answered delivered questions while Janet appeared exhausted or distracted.
21:37
SPEAKER_05: Neither explanation convinced anyone.
21:40
SPEAKER_05: The phenomena continued for months.
21:42
SPEAKER_05: Investigators recorded hundreds of hours of audio, some nights passing quietly, while others descended into chaos.
21:51
SPEAKER_05: Metal spoons bent, curtains moved, and objects appeared and uh disappeared and reappeared elsewhere.
22:00
SPEAKER_05: The house seemed unpredictable.
22:02
SPEAKER_05: Perhaps the most unusual aspect of the Enfield case wasn't a single event, it was its duration.
22:10
SPEAKER_05: The disturbances reportedly continued on and off for nearly two years.
22:14
SPEAKER_06: That's a long time.
22:15
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
22:16
SPEAKER_05: By then the house became internationally famous.
22:19
SPEAKER_05: TV crews visited, psychics arrived, scientists were hoping to find and expose the fraud.
22:25
SPEAKER_05: Religious investigators searched for signs of demonic activity.
22:29
SPEAKER_06: It's always a demon.
22:31
SPEAKER_05: Always.
22:31
SPEAKER_05: Everyone left with an opinion.
22:34
SPEAKER_05: Very few agreed.
22:36
SPEAKER_05: Of course.
22:37
SPEAKER_06: Or we wouldn't be talking about it today.
22:38
SPEAKER_05: I know, right?
22:39
SPEAKER_05: Well there you go.
22:40
SPEAKER_05: Over time, evidence emerged that complicated the story.
22:45
SPEAKER_05: Janet admitted to faking some of the incidents.
22:49
SPEAKER_05: Hidden tape recordings captured moments where investigators believed tricks had been played.
22:54
SPEAKER_05: Critics argued this proved that the entire case was a hoax.
22:58
SPEAKER_05: Supporters countered that frightened children seeking attention could fake some events while genuine phenomena occurred at other times.
23:09
SPEAKER_05: Maurice Gross himself acknowledged catching the girls cheating on occasions, yet insisted the most extraordinary events happened when deception seemed impossible.
23:21
SPEAKER_05: That disagreement never truly ended.
23:24
SPEAKER_05: Today, nearly fifty years later, the Enfield Poltergoise remains the world's most controversial paranormal investigations.
23:32
SPEAKER_05: To sceptics it was a fascinating example of childhood mischief amplified by media attention, confirming confirmation bias and investigators who desperately want to believe.
23:44
SPEAKER_05: To believers it represented the strongest documented cases of Poltigoist activity ever investigated, supported by thousands of witnesses, statements, recordings, photographs, and years of firsthand observations.
23:58
SPEAKER_05: The house itself still stands, the children grew up and the investigators passed away, but the arguments surrounding what happened inside those modern modest brick walls on Green Street continue to this day.
24:12
SPEAKER_05: Whether it was an elaborate deception, misunderstood psychology, or something that simply refused to fit inside our understanding of reality, the Enfield Polygon remains one of the greatest mysteries in the paranormal history.
24:25
SPEAKER_05: If we remove the supernatural entirely, psychologists can still explain many aspects of the Enfield case.
24:35
SPEAKER_05: The Hugson family wasn't living an ordinary life before disturbances happened.
24:40
SPEAKER_05: Peggy Huxton was a single mother raising four children after a very difficult divorce.
24:46
SPEAKER_05: Money was tight, and the children had lost the daily presence of their father, and family life became almost unstable overnight.
24:57
SPEAKER_05: Modern psychologists tell us that children experiencing prolonged stress often express it indirectly.
25:03
SPEAKER_05: Anxiety doesn't always appear as tears or panic attacks.
25:07
SPEAKER_05: Sometimes it appears through unusual behavior, attention seeking, or even unconscious actions that child doesn't fully understand themselves.
25:17
SPEAKER_05: Janet, the eleven year old at the center of this case, fits several factors psychologists consider important.
25:24
SPEAKER_05: She was approaching adolescence, a period marked by rapid emotional development, fluctuating hormones and a growing need for attention and identity.
25:37
SPEAKER_05: Many documented poltergeist reports also seem to center around children or teenagers, particularly girls entering puberty.
25:48
SPEAKER_05: Skeptics argue that this isn't because teenage generate paranormal forces, but because adolescence is one of the most emotionally volatile periods of human development.
26:00
SPEAKER_05: One of psychologist's strongest explanations is reinforcement.
26:04
SPEAKER_05: Now Ken.
26:05
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
26:07
SPEAKER_05: Imagine you're an 11-year-old girl.
26:09
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
26:11
SPEAKER_05: One night your family hears strange knocking, and the police arrive.
26:15
SPEAKER_05: Investigators visit your home, reporters interview you, TV cameras appear inside your house, and for the first time in your life, adults hang on to every word that you say.
26:26
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
26:27
SPEAKER_06: Whether the original event was genuine or not almost becomes irrelevant.
26:32
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
26:33
SPEAKER_05: Every unusual thing you do is suddenly rewarded with attention.
26:37
SPEAKER_05: Psychologist causes positive, positive reinforcement.
26:41
SPEAKER_05: Even if the child never intended to deceive anyone initially, the attention itself can be encouraged increasingly dramatic behavior.
26:53
SPEAKER_05: Can encourage.
27:00
SPEAKER_05: Another factor is something called social contagion.
27:04
SPEAKER_05: Humans are remarkably good at influencing each other's perceptions.
27:10
SPEAKER_05: If one person generally believes that they heard knocking on the walls, other nearby become far more likely to interpret ordinary house noises as meaningful knocks.
27:23
SPEAKER_04: What was that?
27:24
SPEAKER_04: Pizza No no you weren't.
27:27
SPEAKER_04: What was that?
27:28
SPEAKER_04: Pizza?
27:29
SPEAKER_06: Housekeeping And the ghost and Billy Wilkins.
27:37
SPEAKER_05: And Billy Wilkins.
27:40
SPEAKER_05: Expectation change perception.
27:44
SPEAKER_05: Once everyone expects strange things to happen, completely normal events suddenly become evidence.
27:49
SPEAKER_05: A creaking floorboard, a settling house, a toy falling from a shelf.
27:54
SPEAKER_05: Each event reinforces the belief that something paranormal is happening.
27:59
SPEAKER_05: Soon the entire household and even the investigators may begin interpreting ambiguous events through the same lens.
28:08
SPEAKER_05: Children also possess vivid imaginations that that doesn't mean that they're lying.
28:15
SPEAKER_05: Research consistently shows that children can sincerely believe that something is happening exactly the way they describe it, even when the objective evidence later shows otherwise.
28:27
SPEAKER_05: Memory is not like a video recording.
28:31
SPEAKER_05: Every time we recall an event, we unconsciously reconstruct parts of it.
28:36
SPEAKER_05: After months of interviews, news stories, and television appearances, and discussing almost among investigators, memories naturally evolve, a knock becomes louder, a chair moves further, and a shadow becomes clearer.
28:52
SPEAKER_05: None of this requires deliberate dishonesty.
28:55
SPEAKER_05: It's simply how human memory works.
28:58
SPEAKER_05: One of the biggest challenges for believers became I'm sorry, came when Janet later admitted that she had faked some of the instances.
29:09
SPEAKER_05: Secret recordings also caught the girls bending spoons, making knocking noises and throwing objects during certain investigations.
29:18
SPEAKER_05: For the skeptics this was a smoking gun.
29:21
SPEAKER_05: If they cheated once, why should we trust anything else they said?
29:25
SPEAKER_05: But supporters point to something interesting.
29:29
SPEAKER_05: Maurice Gross and Guy Lei Playfair both acknowledged catching the girls cheating, yet neither investigator abandoned the case.
29:37
SPEAKER_05: Their argument was simple.
29:39
SPEAKER_05: Children who believe adults expect paranormal activity might fake small events while nothing is happening, but that doesn't automatically explain every reported incident.
29:51
SPEAKER_05: In this controversial position, but an important distinction, perhaps the strangest aspect of the Enfield case is Janet's deep gravelly voice.
30:04
SPEAKER_05: Psychologists don't necessarily see this as supernatural.
30:08
SPEAKER_05: Extreme stress can sometimes produce distortion, a state where people temporarily separate from aspects of their normal awareness.
30:18
SPEAKER_05: Some individuals unconsciously adopt different voices, personalities or behaviors.
30:25
SPEAKER_06: I do that every time we come onto the show.
30:27
SPEAKER_06: I get different personality.
30:29
SPEAKER_06: He does a different voice.
30:31
SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
30:32
SPEAKER_05: Because usually usually in real life kind of is like, hey everyone, how y'all doing?
30:39
SPEAKER_05: Other develop uh psychogenetic system uh symptoms with no physical cause.
30:46
SPEAKER_05: While uncommon, these phenomena are well documented.
30:50
SPEAKER_05: Combined with Janet's ability to manipulate her vocal cords, many psychologists believe that Bill Wilkins' voice can be explained without provoking spirits.
31:02
SPEAKER_05: Another psychological factor often overlooked that is the investigators themselves.
31:09
SPEAKER_05: Maurice Gross had recently lost his daughter in a tragic a tragic accident.
31:15
SPEAKER_05: That's too bad.
31:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
31:17
SPEAKER_05: Some critics have suggested that his personal loss may have made him more open and believing that consciousness survives death.
31:27
SPEAKER_05: This doesn't imply dishonesty.
31:30
SPEAKER_05: It simply illustrates that something psychologists call confirmation bias.
31:39
SPEAKER_05: Once we begin to favor one explanation, we naturally pay more attention to the evidence supporting it while unintentionally overlooking contradictory evidence.
31:49
SPEAKER_06: So I can see where they're saying there that he wanted it to be real so bad that maybe he overlooked some things when he did catch them cheating or whatnot.
32:00
SPEAKER_05: Looking only through the lens of psychology, the Enfield uh the Enfield case doesn't require ghosts.
32:08
SPEAKER_05: A family under immense stress, an adolescent girl craving attention during a turbulent uh period in life, positive reinforcement from investigators and the media, and normal uh normal household noises interpreted as meaningful noises from ghosts.
32:27
SPEAKER_05: A few admitted hoax the natural unreliability of memory, the group psychology amplifying the belief, and together these factors could explain a remarkable amount of what happened inside 284 on Green Street, but they don't explain everything.
32:46
SPEAKER_05: That's precisely why the Enfield Polygoids remains one of the world's most debated paranormal cases, and even today believers argue that some reports or some reported events, such as movements witnessed by independent observers, the police officer's account of moving chair and or certain recordings and photographs are difficult to reconcile with psychology alone.
33:13
SPEAKER_05: Whether those remaining mysteries point to something paranormal or simply reflect the limits of eyewitness testimonies is where the debate continues and where the Enfield story has lived for nearly 50 years.
33:27
SPEAKER_05: Then before we jump to ghosts, let's do something every good investigator should do.
33:32
SPEAKER_05: Let's assume there were no ghosts at all.
33:34
SPEAKER_05: Could psychology alone explain what happened inside this house?
33:37
SPEAKER_06: Well, I think that a lot of what you just uh said would be psychology's attempt to um explain what happened.
33:46
SPEAKER_06: I wasn't there, so I don't know how loud the banging was.
33:50
SPEAKER_06: I don't know how far away anybody was from a thing that threw a you know, flew across the room, whether they could have like chucked it when no one was looking, I don't know.
34:00
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
34:00
SPEAKER_06: So my question to you is real or not real or hoax.
34:07
SPEAKER_05: That it's that is an interesting one.
34:09
SPEAKER_05: Um I want to like what I want to say is half and half.
34:13
SPEAKER_05: I think it was something I think if there was no media and it was strictly investigators only, there would still be a case, but it wouldn't be as big.
34:26
SPEAKER_06: It wouldn't have been as famous.
34:27
SPEAKER_06: No.
34:28
SPEAKER_06: I think the fact that well for me, the picture of her being levitated off her bed does look like she jumped from the bed.
34:36
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
34:37
SPEAKER_06: Um, I mean it it's the same pose your body would make if you made the if you were trying to so it's two beds side by side with a gap in the middle.
34:45
SPEAKER_06: If you were to jump from one to the other, that's the position your body would be in if you made that jump.
34:51
SPEAKER_06: So I don't think I've seen enough personally to say yes, this was real.
34:58
SPEAKER_05: You'd almost have to investigate it and look at what this person looks like standing up in the bedroom and then jump have her jump up and take a picture because the weight, the gravity, and always as a young child, your skin is more elastic and it wouldn't move as much with gravity.
35:14
SPEAKER_06: But like I mean, okay, so or even her clothes are her.
35:18
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I was just about to say would be uh evidence that if she was being levitated, she'd be going up.
35:26
SPEAKER_06: So her hair would actually be coming down.
35:29
SPEAKER_06: Whereas if she jumped, her hair would be more in the air from the momentum of the jump.
35:35
SPEAKER_06: So we're looking up the picture again just to see what uh the picture looks like uh with her, at least with her hair.
35:42
SPEAKER_06: Because you're there's probably something else in that photo that your mind says, well, that's it looks like she jumped, and you're just not recognizing what um that it that is.
35:56
SPEAKER_06: Well, I mean, yeah, that's a jump.
35:59
SPEAKER_06: Well, yeah, but it okay, so I take it back.
36:01
SPEAKER_06: It doesn't look like she was jumping from one bed to the other, but it does look like she might have like jumped off the end of her bed.
36:06
SPEAKER_06: Well, that's a jump easy.
36:08
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
36:09
SPEAKER_05: That one, yeah.
36:11
SPEAKER_05: I mean, her hair is like either going up her thingy.
36:17
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean, even this there's little ties on the top of her.
36:20
SPEAKER_06: Oh god, she's doing it again.
36:22
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, there's ties on the top of her nightgown that are actually flowing up like she came.
36:26
SPEAKER_06: Well, I guess if you're levitating, you would have been up, but I don't know, it just looks too much like a jump.
36:32
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and look at this one.
36:33
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that one.
36:35
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, that's a jump.
36:38
SPEAKER_06: I mean, that's a same the same thing.
36:40
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, if she was laying prone, yeah, I would I would say, oh, definitely.
36:45
SPEAKER_06: But all of these look like jumping off the bed.
36:48
SPEAKER_06: So nothing that I've seen, and the fact that yes, there was some admitting to hoaxing, I just don't see this one as being.
36:58
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean, I think that like maybe it happened once.
37:04
SPEAKER_05: Uh there might have been some ghostly activity, sure.
37:09
SPEAKER_05: And then it was like, well, you know, I can recreate that.
37:11
SPEAKER_05: What's just take a picture of me as a jump in the air?
37:14
SPEAKER_05: That's stupid.
37:15
SPEAKER_05: True.
37:15
SPEAKER_05: That that should have been if it was an investigator, it'd be like, well, no, she jumped in the air.
37:20
SPEAKER_06: But there was like what probably six different photos, all different of kind of the same thing.
37:26
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so you know, we didn't research those photos, so we don't know if they were taken sequentially in order or six different occasions.
37:36
SPEAKER_06: So how often how often did she levitate off the bed?
37:40
SPEAKER_05: There is the other argument that let's say she did levitate for the best.
37:48
SPEAKER_05: Okay, but we want to recreate it for the newspaper.
37:51
SPEAKER_05: Can you just jump off the bed and take a picture and we say that's you levitate?
37:53
SPEAKER_05: That was you levitate.
37:54
SPEAKER_06: Okay, that's possible.
37:55
SPEAKER_05: But the voice is a little different.
37:58
SPEAKER_05: Um it is yeah, you can you can make voices with your voice.
38:03
SPEAKER_06: Well, I mean, we look back at the uh Jeff the mongoose.
38:06
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
38:06
SPEAKER_06: Same thing, the kid was supposedly talking as Jeff when people weren't looking, so I don't know.
38:13
SPEAKER_05: I I don't know.
38:14
SPEAKER_05: I mean, it maybe if she hadn't done the the case, she could have become a voice actor for a cartoon or something, you know.
38:22
SPEAKER_06: Who knows, really?
38:23
SPEAKER_06: So I guess the one thing the few things that could go on right now would be watching the interview with the woman as an adult, see what she says.
38:32
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
38:32
SPEAKER_06: How she reacts, how she her body movements, and whether or not she's being truthful or not.
38:39
SPEAKER_06: Secondly, research the and then someone may have done this.
38:43
SPEAKER_06: I just I just haven't researched the uh this particular case enough to know if it has been done.
38:48
SPEAKER_06: Let's find out if uh it was a bill uh Bill Wilkins Wilkins that actually lived in the house.
38:53
SPEAKER_05: I'm pretty sure they would have looked that up.
38:56
SPEAKER_06: So it you know, it's got to be somewhere in someone's book, I'm sure.
38:59
SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
39:00
SPEAKER_06: But you know, like but would the kids would have known that, like maybe but they bought it from someone that was like one or two or owners prior, and like maybe they heard it from a neighbor.
39:08
SPEAKER_06: Oh no, oh Mr.
39:09
SPEAKER_06: Wilkins used low there, he died in there, you know.
39:12
SPEAKER_06: And then they that would give them the the backstory that they would need.
39:16
SPEAKER_02: True.
39:17
SPEAKER_06: And then the third thing would be interviewing the people that live in the house 50 years later.
39:22
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I'm sure they're having issues with with seven video cameras covering the front door and the front sidewalk, yeah.
39:28
SPEAKER_06: I'm sure they're having issues with looky loos and people that are trying to look into the house and whatnot.
39:34
SPEAKER_06: Yeah but I would be interested in seeing if they and they're probably first like no, no, no, nothing's happening because they don't want more attention.
39:41
SPEAKER_06: But it'd be interesting to see if anything else has happened in that house in the last 50 years.
39:46
SPEAKER_06: But then again, poltergeist cases, the poltergeist haunts the person and not the house.
39:53
SPEAKER_06: So yeah.
39:55
SPEAKER_06: But then that kind of defies I guess but then if the poltergeist is uh well it wasn't centered around Janet.
40:04
SPEAKER_06: Uh then it kind of does disprove Spill Wilkins' claim that he was a ghost because I mean I guess it'd have to be a ghost to be see it gives you a lot to think about.
40:16
SPEAKER_05: It does, it really does.
40:18
SPEAKER_05: And it is an interesting.
40:19
SPEAKER_05: I haven't heard it for a little while of the uh the audio, but I think I would like to throw a little bit of audio in here as well, if I can.
40:27
SPEAKER_05: Um I'll probably put it in the middle somewhere, but um it's always in the middle.
40:32
SPEAKER_05: Always in the middle.
40:34
SPEAKER_05: Well, Ken, that was interesting.
40:35
SPEAKER_06: Um that you're you're saying that you kind of believe, but not fully.
40:39
SPEAKER_05: I mean the more I think about it, the more skeptical they become of it.
40:46
SPEAKER_05: I'm not convinced.
40:47
SPEAKER_05: I'm not convinced, yeah.
40:48
SPEAKER_05: I think maybe something happened once and it was unexplainable, and then they tried to recreate it and they just couldn't get it, and they end up either the investigators saw something, or the chair moved and the police or something like that.
41:02
SPEAKER_06: And this is and this is before, you know, like the Amneyville horror where someone made a ton of money writing a book about it.
41:08
SPEAKER_05: So it's not like they're Yeah, apparently they didn't make an awful lot of money off this, or any at all.
41:12
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so it's not like they were trying to find a way to monetize a story or make it profitable because they were having money issues.
41:21
SPEAKER_06: So what other option, well, I mean, what other um motivation is there?
41:30
SPEAKER_06: There there really isn't other than oh, those are the weird people live down in that haunted house.
41:35
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you know, I don't know.
41:38
SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
41:39
SPEAKER_06: I know that I would like to experience poltergeist activity at least once.
41:45
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
41:45
SPEAKER_06: And I believe I have to some degree.
41:48
SPEAKER_05: Uh booklets for me.
41:50
SPEAKER_06: I I believe I've been around places where I've seen something move a little bit on the table.
41:55
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
41:55
SPEAKER_06: But that to me that's just like maybe a uh an entity or a ghost trying to get my attention rather than a poltergeist.
42:02
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
42:02
SPEAKER_06: Poltergeist to me is like things flying across the room.
42:05
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I mean it can be, yeah.
42:07
SPEAKER_05: It could be I think Hollywood would definitely um exaggerate it a lot, you know.
42:12
SPEAKER_06: No, Hollywood would never do that.
42:16
SPEAKER_06: What's the motivation of them doing that?
42:18
SPEAKER_06: Want to sell more movie tickets?
42:20
SPEAKER_06: Come on.
42:21
SPEAKER_05: No, sell DVDs, featured merchandise.
42:24
SPEAKER_06: No, no, nobody buys that stuff.
42:27
SPEAKER_06: $80 popcorn bucket when you go to when you go to the movie because it's shaped like the Trojan horse?
42:32
SPEAKER_06: That's crazy.
42:34
SPEAKER_06: Anyway.
42:36
SPEAKER_06: Any hoes.
42:38
SPEAKER_06: No, that's great.
42:39
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I've always been interested in that one.
42:42
SPEAKER_06: I would have loved to have been there during but at the same time, then if it was a hoax and you realize it's a hoax and you spend so much time in it, you really can't say yeah, it's a hoax, completely a hoax and walk away and not have an effect.
42:55
SPEAKER_06: Well, then why did it take you three years to you know, or two years to say it was a hoax?
43:01
SPEAKER_05: So and I think there is two investigators before uh Maurice and uh uh Feck was his name.
43:12
SPEAKER_05: Uh play for her.
43:13
SPEAKER_05: I think there was two in before that thought it was baloney and when we just left his name.
43:21
SPEAKER_05: And then two more came in.
43:22
SPEAKER_05: So I think everything happened after two, more came in.
43:24
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
43:25
SPEAKER_05: Um, anyways, yeah.
43:28
SPEAKER_05: We we may do a follow-up episode with a few more things on this one.
43:31
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, if when we win the lottery and we travel to London and knock on the door and ask them if we could come in and talk to their poultry guys.
43:39
SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
43:40
SPEAKER_06: That'd be part of the thing.
43:41
SPEAKER_06: Is Bill Humphrey?
43:42
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I'd like to speak with Bill Wilkins, please.
43:44
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
43:46
SPEAKER_06: And then it turns out the person that answered the door is Bill Wilkins.
43:54
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, let's see.
43:54
SPEAKER_06: Hollywood tap that one.
43:56
unknown: There you go.
43:58
SPEAKER_05: Anyways, well, look, if you want.
44:00
SPEAKER_05: More information on this case, go to PhantomJourneys.com and have a look at any in the gallery.
44:07
SPEAKER_06: We'll put in uh we'll put up I don't think I could put in the audio file, but I can put up the pictures of the levit the alleged levitation and whatever other pictures.
44:16
SPEAKER_06: I'll put up a picture of the house with the current date house with the all the video cameras in the front.
44:22
SPEAKER_05: Right across the school, right across the street from a school, a primary school.
44:26
SPEAKER_06: Right.
44:26
SPEAKER_05: Which is interesting too.
44:28
SPEAKER_05: Maybe they have a lot of kids that try to Maybe it was just a ton of like psychokinetic energy or or whatever.
44:34
SPEAKER_05: Well, that that doesn't mean the school was there 50 years ago.
44:37
SPEAKER_05: No, I'll put the like.
44:40
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we don't know if the school was there 50 years ago.
44:44
SPEAKER_06: That actually when we pander across these.
44:47
SPEAKER_05: Why would you put skill directly across the road from a haunted building?
44:50
SPEAKER_05: Like at Poltergoids, like a really cheap property.
44:53
SPEAKER_06: Do you think the property values around that house skyrocketed after everybody thought maybe?
44:59
SPEAKER_06: I bet you all the homeowners around there were well, I don't know how it is in in in England because it's all property uh owning property is different than it is here, but that happened here.
45:08
SPEAKER_06: Imagine living next to the Emneyville horror house.
45:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:12
SPEAKER_06: And all of a sudden that house that they moved into, you know, the the the Fail family bought it for$300,000, and the next thing I don't know, this other family moves in at a bot at a bargain at$100, you know.
45:23
unknown: Yeah.
45:25
SPEAKER_06: Your property values are dropping at that point.
45:27
SPEAKER_06: So I don't see that being too hard, too hard to fathom that the school got cheap property across the street.
45:37
SPEAKER_06: But uh I because I when before I moved to CME and we lived in LA, we were just um a block over from the house that was used in the thriller video, the house, and also the house that was used in the charm video, and then two blocks over is the house that was used for um Fast and Furious uh Dorado's house.
45:58
SPEAKER_06: So I can tell you that there were during the summer months there were tour buses.
46:07
SPEAKER_06: I mean, the the charter tour buses going up full of people that just had to see the charm house, yeah, mostly from Europe.
46:13
SPEAKER_06: But there would be people that would I mean they're one instance they had to have the police there because the guy uh took his car to block off the street so he could have his own private time in front of the house and without anybody else bothering him.
46:26
SPEAKER_06: There are people that have been arrested because they had to take a hacksaw and cut pieces off the thriller house or pieces off the charm house for our souvenir.
46:35
SPEAKER_06: So I can see why there were seven video cameras up on the house there because people just don't know boundaries.
46:42
SPEAKER_05: That's true.
46:43
SPEAKER_06: They actually the the house that was used in Fast and Ferrier's for the Toronto home, they had actually had to put in a huge fence because people were coming up, looking in the front window.
46:57
SPEAKER_06: There were people coming up and just making themselves at home on the front porch.
47:00
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
47:01
SPEAKER_06: And the I mean it's a house.
47:03
SPEAKER_06: All these are houses people are living in.
47:05
SPEAKER_06: All it was was somebody collected a check and allowed them to film a movie in front of it or on it, at it.
47:11
SPEAKER_06: And but they were having people that would walk up and start drinking beers and reminiscing about the movie or reminiscing about Paul Walker that died while sitting in their you know, porch furniture.
47:24
SPEAKER_05: You know, you could have made a ton of money just selling tickets to go to the house and do all the things.
47:28
SPEAKER_06: It was it was so obnoxious.
47:29
SPEAKER_06: And then they did racing.
47:31
SPEAKER_06: In fact, just down the street, they had the uh little mom and pa uh convenience store that they used as Girado's uh uh store.
47:40
SPEAKER_06: They ended up having to re completely redo the front um street of that because people were doing donuts.
47:46
SPEAKER_06: It's just like people, it's just a movie.
47:48
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's just I'm not wearing the T.
47:50
SPEAKER_05: You know what's funny?
47:50
SPEAKER_05: I didn't even know the last time we talked about this on the show, yeah.
47:55
SPEAKER_05: You said the exact same thing.
47:55
SPEAKER_05: I was saying they were doing wornouts in front of the house.
47:58
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, I was wearing the Faster Fears t-shirt.
48:01
SPEAKER_05: I didn't even notice you were wearing a Faster Fury.
48:04
SPEAKER_06: I just it's just I can see why they had so many cameras up because I mean, even in Amneyville, New York, yeah, that was in the it was in 76, 77 when all that happened.
48:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:16
SPEAKER_06: There's still people that uh block traffic and block the sidewalks to the point where people that live there go out and shoot people away with brooms and stuff because they can't walk or drive down their street.
48:27
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, it is it is annoying.
48:30
SPEAKER_06: Would I be one of those people staying there to get a picture of the Emily Bill Arrows?
48:33
SPEAKER_06: Hell yes! Would I be a chase with a broom?
48:36
SPEAKER_06: Hell yes! But you know, it's you can do what you gotta do.
48:42
SPEAKER_06: I drop my hand.
48:44
SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah.
48:45
SPEAKER_05: That's that's oh god.
48:49
SPEAKER_06: Would you ever would you're in London and you know that the house was an infilled house, would you move into it?
48:59
SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
49:00
SPEAKER_06: I wouldn't move to London though.
49:01
SPEAKER_06: I mean, but if you were already in London.
49:03
SPEAKER_06: If I was already in the house, forget the fact that you're Irish and the whole thing with the.
49:09
SPEAKER_05: London is really I don't know.
49:11
SPEAKER_05: You know, I was in London once and it was really messy.
49:14
SPEAKER_05: Like re I've never seen a messier place.
49:17
SPEAKER_05: And I don't know if that's changed in the last 20, 30 years, but I don't know.
49:22
SPEAKER_05: It's like any major city though.
49:24
SPEAKER_05: Like imagine Dublin on Sarah's like it's like our it's it's you know, LA is fucking filthy, so yeah, you know, it's it's like that.
49:32
SPEAKER_05: Um I don't know.
49:35
SPEAKER_06: But if you knew okay, the Emmanuel, how are we?
49:39
SPEAKER_06: Would you move into that one?
49:41
SPEAKER_06: He had the opportunity, probably not excuse me, opportunity.
49:44
SPEAKER_06: Probably not.
49:44
SPEAKER_06: No?
49:44
SPEAKER_05: No, too much too much negative energy.
49:48
SPEAKER_05: Well, with the with the end field, maybe.
49:50
SPEAKER_06: How many deaths in a house and how violent of a death would it be till you say, okay, I'll do that?
49:59
SPEAKER_06: How many?
50:00
SPEAKER_06: Uh if you were to buy a property, and you know I'm just asking, where's the threshold?
50:04
SPEAKER_06: If would you still would you still move into the house if four people died, or would you move into the house if only six people died?
50:11
SPEAKER_06: I wouldn't know, man.
50:11
SPEAKER_06: That's if if if 20 people died in that house and there were peaceful deaths, would that make a difference than four people that got brutally murdered?
50:19
SPEAKER_06: What I mean, I want to know what the threshold of you buying property is.
50:23
unknown: I don't know.
50:24
SPEAKER_05: Well, that's a that's an interesting question because like you gotta live there.
50:29
SPEAKER_05: Well, you've also got to think four or five people were murdered in.
50:33
SPEAKER_06: We also gotta think probably most houses in every city has to have had at least one death in it.
50:40
SPEAKER_06: That's true.
50:41
SPEAKER_06: And then and I'm not saying people were murdered, I'm saying at least a natural death.
50:45
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
50:46
SPEAKER_06: Um I think we would all be surprised how many houses have multiple deaths in it.
50:51
SPEAKER_06: Just from natural causes.
50:53
SPEAKER_06: I'm not saying murder or suicides or anything, just people die of you know natural death.
51:00
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's interesting.
51:02
SPEAKER_05: Uh I think it would be more interesting if you're buying the house solely for paranormal research.
51:07
SPEAKER_06: Oh, that's true.
51:08
SPEAKER_06: I mean, if you if you bought a house at 10 people were like slaughtered in, you know, uh you'd well would it be that at that point paranormal research, or would it be just morbid fascination?
51:18
SPEAKER_05: No, you'd you'd want to kind of like try and well probably let's just say peace, let's say five people died in the house.
51:26
SPEAKER_06: Uh there wasn't two two were natural causes, three were hideous chainsaw murders.
51:35
SPEAKER_05: One more than three people in one died of natural causes.
51:38
SPEAKER_05: No, um, it it it would be interesting too.
51:45
SPEAKER_06: Because I can tell you the house that I'm in right now.
51:47
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and I know this for a fact.
51:53
SPEAKER_06: Two people have died in that house.
51:56
SPEAKER_06: And there were people I knew.
51:57
SPEAKER_06: They died of old age.
51:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
51:59
SPEAKER_06: But I don't feel like the house is haunted.
52:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
52:03
SPEAKER_06: And would I and if I end up in the position to buy the house, I would have no problem with with that fact.
52:09
SPEAKER_06: Well, well, and I guess I guess also because I knew the the people I had passed away and I had a good relationship with.
52:14
SPEAKER_06: But at the same time.
52:17
SPEAKER_06: Anyway, I don't know.
52:18
SPEAKER_05: Well, here's an interesting because it is actually next week and is my brother's uh anniversary.
52:24
SPEAKER_06: Oh, I'm sorry.
52:25
SPEAKER_05: I know that's okay.
52:26
SPEAKER_05: Oh, but his brother died.
52:28
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
52:29
SPEAKER_05: So but he fell asleep.
52:31
SPEAKER_05: He went to bed one night and he never woke up.
52:33
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
52:33
SPEAKER_06: So that's how a lot of people wish they would go.
52:36
SPEAKER_05: In yeah.
52:37
SPEAKER_05: Technically, it'd be like me moving back into that house again.
52:42
SPEAKER_05: Um obviously to live there, you know, but I would set up investigation.
52:48
SPEAKER_06: Would you?
52:49
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
52:49
SPEAKER_06: In your own house, knowing now, would that be different if you hadn't known that it was your brother that died there, you just knew it was somebody else.
52:56
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it was your house.
52:57
SPEAKER_05: It is a little different being your own family member.
53:00
SPEAKER_06: Because you're not as much you know you know who they were.
53:03
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you knew you know them well enough that you wouldn't be freaked out by something that happened.
53:08
SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
53:08
SPEAKER_05: Especially especially with a background they had paranormal too.
53:11
SPEAKER_05: Because you're uh if something happens, I'll be like, wait, do that again.
53:15
SPEAKER_05: Or I'll be like, oh shit, come back.
53:17
SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
53:18
SPEAKER_06: Brian, you can knock it off tonight.
53:19
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you can just I'm trying to watch a movie do.
53:22
SPEAKER_05: Come on.
53:23
SPEAKER_06: Read the room.
53:26
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
53:28
SPEAKER_06: Hmm.
53:30
SPEAKER_06: No, I was just curious what the threshold was.
53:33
SPEAKER_06: If you knew ahead of time buying a piece of property, yeah, if it just had paranormal activity like the Infield House, that's one thing, or if you knew like 50 people that died natural causes versus five people that have died of brutal death, what where's the point?
53:48
SPEAKER_06: Like, no, I'm good.
53:49
SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
53:49
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's all because you do have to live there regardless.
53:54
SPEAKER_06: I think it uh I mean ultimately it could come down to the feeling you get when you come inside.
54:00
SPEAKER_06: If it's heavy and and whatnot, you're probably not a good idea.
54:05
SPEAKER_06: If you don't feel anything when you walk in, it might not be a bad thing.
54:08
SPEAKER_06: Do you get a good deal on a house?
54:09
SPEAKER_06: That's true, that's true.
54:11
SPEAKER_06: All right, well, that's what the Lutzes thought when they moved into uh Damnenyville horror house.
54:15
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, this is a nice house.
54:17
SPEAKER_06: This is a nice house.
54:18
SPEAKER_06: We've got a great butt.
54:19
SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah, and it even comes furnished.
54:21
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, let's keep all the furniture.
54:23
SPEAKER_06: They kept shotguns.
54:24
SPEAKER_06: They kept the same mattresses as the kids they were killed on.
54:28
SPEAKER_06: Can you believe that?
54:28
SPEAKER_06: At least that's what I read.
54:29
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
54:31
SPEAKER_05: That's crazy.
54:32
SPEAKER_05: Anyways, Ken, that was uh at least part two of the Poltergoys.
54:37
SPEAKER_05: I'm sure the V3 code throw something in later on.
54:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:41
SPEAKER_06: Um, but yeah.
54:42
SPEAKER_06: Or there might be someone listening, like, hey, that's what's happening in my house.
54:46
SPEAKER_06: I should let these guys know.
54:47
SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
54:48
SPEAKER_06: And if they wanted to let us know, how would they do it?
54:50
SPEAKER_05: They would go to fandomjourneys.com.
54:53
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and then and you can leave us your your what how would what they're at the website, then what do they do?
54:58
SPEAKER_06: Well, they click on experiences, or is that at the bottom of the page?
55:01
SPEAKER_06: At the bottom of the page, you can contact us.
55:03
SPEAKER_06: Contact us, there you go.
55:04
SPEAKER_06: You can give us your own experience.
55:05
SPEAKER_06: Boom, you just write it in, let us know.
55:08
unknown: Yeah.
55:08
SPEAKER_06: And then run a first class ticket on an airplane to come see you.
55:12
SPEAKER_05: Or economy, whatever, you know.
55:14
SPEAKER_06: I well, I want everybody to think that we're we'll go first class.
55:18
SPEAKER_06: I mean, if yeah, um yeah, first class.
55:20
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we we'll act like first class in economy.
55:24
SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
55:24
SPEAKER_06: We'll act like first class in baggage, because that's what we can afford.
55:27
SPEAKER_06: Baggage.
55:29
SPEAKER_06: So no, uh, but we do want to hear from you.
55:32
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
55:33
SPEAKER_06: Um, if you love the show, tell a hundred people.
55:35
SPEAKER_06: If you don't know a hundred people, just start grabbing people off the street by the collars and say, hey, you need to listen to phantomjourneys.com.
55:41
SPEAKER_06: They're amazing.
55:42
SPEAKER_06: Um, but if you are on Apple or Spotify or whatever platform that you're listening to this on, please take the moment to give us a five-star review if you like us.
55:52
SPEAKER_06: Uh, that would really help people to find us, it'd help people to uh discover the show.
55:56
SPEAKER_06: If you we're not your cup of tea and you don't like us, don't leave a review.
56:00
SPEAKER_06: You don't need to leave a one-star review.
56:02
SPEAKER_05: Just tell us more people.
56:04
SPEAKER_06: Just grab a hundred people by the collar and say listen to us.
56:07
SPEAKER_05: If you don't like the show, tell 50 people.
56:08
SPEAKER_05: But if you like it, sell a hundred.
56:10
SPEAKER_05: That's fair.
56:11
SPEAKER_05: That's fair.
56:12
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
56:12
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
56:13
SPEAKER_06: I agree.
56:14
SPEAKER_06: Because those 50 people, like, well, if you didn't like it, there's something I need to check out.
56:18
SPEAKER_06: They probably listen to themselves and find that this guy was just a weirdo.
56:21
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, exactly.
56:24
SPEAKER_06: Calling the listeners weirdos again.
56:26
SPEAKER_05: I thought you told them to us like we're weirdos.
56:28
SPEAKER_06: Oh, well, that's well, yeah, that's exactly what I meant.
56:31
SPEAKER_06: Exactly what I mean.
56:33
SPEAKER_05: Gotta be.
56:34
SPEAKER_06: Gotta be.
56:35
SPEAKER_06: So live in LA.
56:39
SPEAKER_06: Well, we're in a different county now.
56:40
SPEAKER_06: That's true.
56:41
SPEAKER_06: I I don't live in LA County.
56:42
SPEAKER_06: I'm sure you're in Ventura.
56:44
SPEAKER_06: I'm an Inventura County man.
56:45
unknown: Yeah.
56:46
SPEAKER_06: I'm right on the border.
56:49
SPEAKER_06: So that's been the Poltergeist part two.
56:53
SPEAKER_06: Um poltergeist is our bucket list, so please, if you're listening and you're experiencing poltergeist, real poltergeist, not just something to get us to come out there.
57:02
SPEAKER_05: And I mean, if we go to your house and you end up jumping off bagging, look at me levitating.
57:06
SPEAKER_06: We're gonna say thank you, but no thank you.
57:09
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
57:09
SPEAKER_06: And then go get a drink at the pub.
57:11
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
57:11
SPEAKER_06: We might just go get a drink at the pub anyway.
57:14
SPEAKER_06: So this has been Ken.
57:16
SPEAKER_06: And this has been Laugh.
57:17
SPEAKER_06: And you have been listening to The Phantom Journeys Podcast! Hey, I'm levitating.
57:23
SPEAKER_06: Look at me.
57:24
SPEAKER_04: Look at me! I'm levitating! Don't jump off my bed.
57:28
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57:33
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57:35
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57:38
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57:47
SPEAKER_01: This has been the Phantom Journeys Podcast.
57:51
SPEAKER_01: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests, and not necessarily the views of our sponsors or producers.
58:00
SPEAKER_01: Living or dead.
58:06
SPEAKER_01: I'm Grim, your local Reaper.
58:11
SPEAKER_01: Be a part of the show and send me Grip.
58:14
SPEAKER_01: You know your hunky Grim Reaper, your experiences with ghosts, aliens, monsters, or even with me.
58:21
SPEAKER_01: Grim, we are looking for real experiences.
58:24
SPEAKER_01: You can send us an email through our website, at least.com.
58:29
SPEAKER_01: If you survive,