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Dance in College - The Pros and The Cons · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

0:07
SPEAKER_06: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at Advanced Competitions?
0:10
SPEAKER_06: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
0:13
SPEAKER_06: This is Making the Impact Advanced Competition Podcast.
0:15
SPEAKER_06: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
0:23
SPEAKER_06: It's fall, y'all! The time has come for apple picking, cookie season, and college applications and auditions.
0:29
SPEAKER_06: In today's episode of Making the Impact, we explore the pros and cons of going to college for dance.
0:34
SPEAKER_06: And whether in 2021, getting a dance degree is worth the time, the effort, or the price.
0:42
SPEAKER_04: Hey everybody, it's Courtney Ortiz, and welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
0:50
SPEAKER_04: I'm your host, and I'm here with my co-host, Leslie Mueller.
0:53
SPEAKER_06: Hi, friends in Podcast Land.
0:55
SPEAKER_05: I am super pumped to be here, Courtney.
0:57
SPEAKER_05: How about you?
0:57
SPEAKER_05: Of course I'm super pumped to be here, and I hope that everyone is loving season three of the podcast.
1:02
SPEAKER_05: And I know we are loving being back, so yay for the podcast.
1:08
SPEAKER_05: And today we are talking about dance in college, a very highly anticipated episode that people have been requesting and waiting for for the past two seasons, and now it's finally here.
1:22
SPEAKER_05: But we wanted to make sure we had the the best guests possible that had the most knowledge to share, but also to put this at the top of the season for you.
1:31
SPEAKER_05: So for all of my seniors or juniors or younger dancers who are curious about going to college for dance or college in general, we wanted to make sure that it was at the top of the season so you could get all of those details as you start scoping out where you're heading next year and before you start your auditions for these college dance programs.
1:51
SPEAKER_05: So I'm very excited to be here today and chatting all about college.
1:56
SPEAKER_06: Me too, Courtney.
1:57
SPEAKER_06: And you know, we're also going to be talking about the pros and cons of not going to college for dance, but still pursuing a dance career.
2:04
SPEAKER_06: So there's, you know, it's it's 2021.
2:07
SPEAKER_06: It'll be 2022 by the time these students are, you know, heading into college or not next year.
2:12
SPEAKER_06: And the world is just a different place and the dance world is a different place.
2:16
SPEAKER_06: So we'll be giving you, you know, all the pros and cons, all the sides to the story of whether college is something you want to pursue as a dancer or whether it's not.
2:25
SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
2:25
SPEAKER_05: And I'm pumped to chat about this topic.
2:27
SPEAKER_05: But before we get into the episode, I would love to share a bit about our sponsor, Young Arts.
2:33
SPEAKER_05: Young Arts is the perfect sponsor for this episode because they offer scholarship opportunities to dancers, musicians, writers, filmmakers, and so many more fabulous young artists.
2:44
SPEAKER_05: Young Arts is currently accepting applications for their 2022 National Arts Competition, open to visual, literary, and performing artists between the ages of 15 to 18 or in grades 10 through 12.
2:57
SPEAKER_05: Artists can apply for a chance to receive mentorship and financial awards, gain access to a lifetime of professional development and funding opportunities, and become part of an uplifting intergenerational community that helps artists connect, create, and collaborate.
3:12
SPEAKER_05: Competition finalists in their senior year are further eligible for nomination as a U.S.
3:16
SPEAKER_05: Presidential Scholar in the Arts, one of the nation's highest honors for high school students.
3:21
SPEAKER_05: The deadline to apply is October 15th, 2021, at 11.59 p.m.
3:26
SPEAKER_05: Eastern Time.
3:28
SPEAKER_05: As a previous Young Arts winner myself, I cannot recommend this opportunity more, and it was such an eye-opening experience for me in high school.
3:35
SPEAKER_05: If you would like to learn more about Young Arts and start your application today, head over to youngarts.org slash apply.
3:42
SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much to Young Arts for not only supporting our podcast, but also creating opportunities for the next generation of artists.
3:49
SPEAKER_06: Something new we've added this season is an opportunity for our listeners to buy us a coffee on Kofi.
3:54
SPEAKER_06: Now listen, you can't buy us a coffee unless you want to come to New York and like buy us a coffee.
3:58
SPEAKER_06: But it's a cute, fun way for you to support the podcast.
4:02
SPEAKER_06: By clicking on the link in the show notes, you can donate any amount you choose to making the impact.
4:06
SPEAKER_06: That donation goes straight into producing the podcast.
4:09
SPEAKER_06: So if you like what you hear and you want to show your support, we would really appreciate it.
4:13
SPEAKER_06: And you can find that link to buy us a coffee in the show notes.
4:16
SPEAKER_05: All right, everybody.
4:17
SPEAKER_05: It's time to jump right on into this episode, which we have so much to cover, y'all.
4:23
SPEAKER_05: So let's let's go.
4:25
SPEAKER_05: And I'm excited to introduce our guests today that are joining us.
4:30
SPEAKER_05: And first up is a fabulous guest, a member of the IDA team, who you have heard on two other podcast episodes.
4:40
SPEAKER_05: Season one, our hottest topic and hottest episode ever, which I don't it's it's always gonna be the the best episode, the most listened to.
4:50
SPEAKER_05: Y'all know what I'm about to say.
4:52
SPEAKER_05: Season one, episode four, lyrical versus contemporary.
4:57
SPEAKER_05: And she was also on season two, episode sixty-three, performance pathways for the professional dancer.
5:04
SPEAKER_05: I am so happy to welcome back Miss Maddie Kurtz to the podcast.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Yay! Hi! Hi! So excited to be back.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: And this was such a quick turnaround from the last one, so very exciting.
5:17
SPEAKER_05: I know you ended season two, and now you're back at the top of season three.
5:21
SPEAKER_05: That's so there were only six six episodes in between now that I'm looking at the numbers.
5:26
SPEAKER_05: So cool.
5:27
SPEAKER_05: And Maddie, I'm I'm excited that you're here for this because I know you are very passionate about talking about college dance.
5:35
SPEAKER_05: And I know you have you're gonna tell all of the listeners a little bit about your your bio and your history and your experience in the college dance world.
5:43
SPEAKER_05: So why don't you just jump on in and tell everybody a little bit about you?
5:47
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: So I'm originally from Connecticut and I had no plans of pursuing dance after high school.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: I love dancing in high school, but I thought I was gonna go to law school because that's what you do, you know?
6:01
SPEAKER_00: And I ended up at a small liberal arts college called Colby College.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: It's up in Maine, and I took a dance class and was totally interested and curious and excited by what was happening in the room.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: It was a new way of thinking, a new way of moving, and ended up pursuing a dance major.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: I got a BA, not a BFA, so we can talk about that a little bit as we move forward.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: And I also got a BA in religious studies, which if you listened to the last episode, you heard about that as well.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: Also random, but very interesting.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: And I loved dancing in college so much that I ended up pursuing my MFA in performance and choreography at SUNY Brockport.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: And I now live in Tampa, Florida.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: I just moved here a couple months ago from Tallahassee.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm an adjunct professor at the University of Tampa, and I teach at a fabulous studio down here as well.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: I also teach Pierbar and I teach yoga and I teach Pilates, and I have a project-based contemporary dance company.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: So I make my own independent choreography outside of the studio uh sector.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: And I've been judging for the past six years gonna be lucky number seven in 2022.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I also do some work on the back end with IDA, so love being busy.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: And like Courtney said, I'm super passionate about this topic as someone who kind of, you know, accidentally ended up pursuing a career after high school.
7:29
SPEAKER_05: Awesome, Maddie.
7:30
SPEAKER_05: We're so happy to have you back.
7:31
SPEAKER_05: So thank you for joining us for the third time on the podcast.
7:35
SPEAKER_05: Woo-hoo! All right, and our next guest is a brand new guest to the podcast that came highly recommended.
7:43
SPEAKER_05: And it totally makes sense for this lovely guest to be joining us on this episode because she's the author of The Genius Guide to College Dance Programs.
7:52
SPEAKER_05: So I would love to welcome Angela Carter to the podcast.
7:57
SPEAKER_05: Welcome.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: Hello, thank you so much for having me.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be here.
8:01
SPEAKER_05: Yes, we're so excited to have you.
8:03
SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much for squeezing in this podcast in your very busy guest choreography season.
8:09
SPEAKER_05: I know.
8:09
SPEAKER_05: And you're so busy.
8:11
SPEAKER_05: Crazy right now.
8:13
SPEAKER_05: I know the I know the pain.
8:15
SPEAKER_05: I know the feeling.
8:15
SPEAKER_05: You know that you do.
8:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you do.
8:18
SPEAKER_05: It's like Courtney's first day off in like a month or so.
8:21
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
8:21
SPEAKER_05: And I feel like guest choreography just like consumes your brain so much that you haven't you can't think about anything else while you're doing it.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: There's no multitasking.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: None.
8:31
SPEAKER_05: I know.
8:32
SPEAKER_05: So um, we're so grateful to have you, and we're so excited to hear all of your knowledge and wisdom on this topic.
8:38
SPEAKER_05: And if you wouldn't mind, since you are a brand new guest, sharing a little bit more about who you are, where you're from, where you're based now, any career credits you'd like to share, and any experience, or even a little bit of why you decided to write this college dance program book.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, I am originally from Ohio, and I actually attended the University of Toledo with a marketing degree, which is totally not dance related.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: I taught in college and uh of course performed and things like that.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: But when it came to a dance program, the school that I attended did not have a very super strong program, so I just did it at the studio and conventions and things like that.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: However, when I graduated, I I was like, let's give LA a try.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: So I just moved to LA and just pursued a professional career.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: And for me, the kind of underlying uh thing that was always there for me was teaching and choreography.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: So that was kind of the path that I ended up going down.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: I started tap into the network with my friends Greg Russell and Ryan Lohoff about 15 years ago.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: And we've been touring forever and we're still doing it.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: We're in the middle of a tour right now.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: So we just tour in and train tap dancers.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: And actually at one of those events, I got, you know, we do Q ⁇ A's from time to time with the students and the parents.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of our questions that kept coming up was, you know, what do we do after high school?
10:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, is college a good idea?
10:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, what are the details?
10:11
SPEAKER_01: Is it gonna benefit me?
10:12
SPEAKER_01: Should I just, you know, quit dance altogether because that's a thing too?
10:16
SPEAKER_01: And so these questions kind of sparked my research brain to just kind of go, maybe we should put some work in and, you know, do some research for these kids and maybe compile some good information for them in one place, right?
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Because as you guys know, you really have to dig and really have to search for the really good juice about, you know, the college dance programs and you know, everything that goes along with them.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, some students are not always available to go do all of these visits, you know what I mean?
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Like it's expensive to travel and, you know, kind of survey as you should, but you know, sometimes it's just not there for you.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: So I started doing research and it took me about a year or so to just kind of compile, you know, information about the programs and for information about the faculty.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of differences between high school dance and college dance that dancers don't really aren't aware of when they're, you know, going through that whole process until they get there, and then it's surprise, right?
11:16
SPEAKER_01: So we try to try to put in some research to take the surprise and the guestwork out of the whole process and to just make it a little bit smoother, you know what I mean?
11:27
SPEAKER_01: Smoother of a thing.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: So basically, I re-release the guide every two years.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: Um it's just kind of, you know, as you know, the programs change and especially with COVID, things have changed.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: So um, we just do rounds of research and kind of keep pushing it back out there.
11:42
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of how the guide came to be.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
11:45
SPEAKER_05: Wow.
11:46
SPEAKER_05: Well, first of all, thank you so much for creating this guide.
11:49
SPEAKER_05: And to all of the listeners out there, if you want to get this guide and purchase this guide, where can they purchase this?
11:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, we have a couple different uh versions.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: So if you want an ebook, which is just a direct download, my website is www.geniuscollegeguide.com.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: It's also on Amazon, and actually by the time your podcast airs, the volume three will be ready for the world.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: So it's exciting, it'll be a perfect timing.
12:17
SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh, perfect timing.
12:20
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I know.
12:20
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I love that.
12:22
SPEAKER_05: Well, everybody that's listening, we will be linking access to the guide in our show notes as well with a quick, easy click.
12:31
SPEAKER_05: So if you want to purchase, then you can head to the show notes now.
12:35
SPEAKER_03: Yay! All right, y'all.
12:37
SPEAKER_03: Let's jump on in.
12:39
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so we have so much to talk about.
12:41
SPEAKER_06: We are gonna try to cover everything, but as usual, if you are a part of our Facebook group and you listen to this episode and you have more questions, you can always reach out via the Facebook group and chat with at least the three of us.
12:52
SPEAKER_06: But then Angela, we can invite you too, and you can be a part of our Facebook group.
12:55
SPEAKER_06: And you guys can, you know, ask any more questions that maybe we didn't get to, or we can elaborate even more because you know, this all of our episodes are geared towards education and inspiration at making the impact.
13:07
SPEAKER_06: But this one specifically, like we really want you to have all the information you can.
13:12
SPEAKER_06: There's so much information to have.
13:13
SPEAKER_06: So, you know, we're gonna be more than happy to to keep elaborating if we need to.
13:17
SPEAKER_06: All right, so there's so many questions here on this list.
13:20
SPEAKER_06: I don't even know where to start.
13:22
SPEAKER_06: But Angela, you said something that I think might be a good place to start that I didn't think of when we were talking about, you know, how to approach this episode.
13:30
SPEAKER_06: What are some of the differences between high school and college dance?
13:33
SPEAKER_06: Because that's really true, thinking about, you know, my experience.
13:37
SPEAKER_06: Things are very different.
13:38
SPEAKER_06: It is not the same.
13:39
SPEAKER_06: And so what are some of those things?
13:41
SPEAKER_01: Well, in high school, the majority of us grow up in a studio setting, and you know, we do competitive dance and we go to conventions and we're very focused on being versatile in jazz and tap and ballet and hip-hop and contemporary and all of the subjects.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, at that time, your main goal is, you know, master these elements and get your pirouettes and get your leaks and get your this and your that.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, you want to go showcase your skills at competition.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: I do know there's a lot of schools that are non-competitive, but you know, overall we're all, you know, building routines, performing them on a stage in front of judges or an audience or or whatnot.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: Then you get to college and, you know, yes, the performance aspect is there.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: However, sometimes it's different, right?
14:31
SPEAKER_01: Most of the time it's different, actually.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, sometimes you get to to a school program and maybe you don't perform at all as a freshman, you know, or maybe you just have a few shows that you have to audition to get into, or whatever.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: The other element is the training, you know, your dance training, you're kind of doing a breakdown of dance in general, right?
14:54
SPEAKER_01: So you're you're go you're cutting down to the foundation of, you know, where dance came from, how it's constructed, you know, what the movement means in your body, how to teach, you know, the the elements of the music.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: So you're you're really kind of doing kind of a a very deep dive into the fundamentals and the backstory and you know, kind of how dance came to be.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: Of course, there are classes that you're taking and you are dancing.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: However, also that is going back to the basics as you would think as a as a high school student, you know, because you just go into the studio and you're like, here are my quadruple pirouettes and boom, boom, boom.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: But in college, we're talking about, okay, let's talk about the mechanics.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: What are your shoulders doing?
15:35
SPEAKER_01: Where's your center?
15:36
SPEAKER_01: Where does this turn come from?
15:38
SPEAKER_01: Where does this movement come from?
15:39
SPEAKER_01: What's inspired by it?
15:41
SPEAKER_01: How can you tweak it?
15:42
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
15:42
SPEAKER_01: So it's just a different, uh it's a completely different mindset.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, depending on each school structure, every single program has its own unique type of, you know, setup.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: So each school program is gonna be a completely different experience.
15:59
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, Maddie, can you talk a little bit about one of the things you said in your intro was that you weren't planning on pursuing it?
16:05
SPEAKER_06: You went to this school for something else, but you took his dance class and it like changed your mind.
16:09
SPEAKER_06: So going off of what Angela said, what about it did change your mind and what was different in your opinion?
16:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the biggest thing is a shift in value systems.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: So often in competitive dance training, we're we're focused on quantity, like how many turns did I do?
16:25
SPEAKER_00: How high was my leg, etc., versus in college training, it's often qualitative when we measure things.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: So, like, what does it feel like from a sensation standpoint?
16:36
SPEAKER_00: And I think to a lot of dancers, that can be really off-putting.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, well, I don't want to track my digest my digestive system while rolling on the floor.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: And to me, it was this like fresh new perspective.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't a great turner growing up, you know, like I liked jumping, but I wasn't super into like doing tricks all the time.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: So this breakdown was actually really appealing to me.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, I think it's it's just a a different focus, but at the end of the day, you end up doing the same things.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Like you're you're engaged in your physicality, even if you're not doing 14 pirouettes.
17:09
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I I think that it it is really, it is a very hard transition for a lot of dancers when they get to college and realize this isn't really what you I wanted to sign up for.
17:23
SPEAKER_05: Like it that was for me.
17:25
SPEAKER_05: And I've I've said it before on the podcast.
17:27
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I knew what I was kind of getting myself into, especially at the time when I thought I was a contemporary dancer because that was like the whole new rage back in the competition scene in like 2005, 2006, and then I'm going to college in 2007, and I was going to I went to Marymount Manhattan in New York City, and it's a conservatory.
17:49
SPEAKER_05: It's five days a week ballet, five days a week modern.
17:52
SPEAKER_05: I didn't even touch jazz, never even got to touch jazz in my one semester that I lasted at school.
17:59
SPEAKER_05: And it was just a I I trained that way at home.
18:02
SPEAKER_05: I was my studio had five days a week ballet.
18:05
SPEAKER_05: I didn't take five days a week, but I knew that I had to at college and I enjoyed it because it was part of my grade and I had to.
18:14
SPEAKER_05: It was like, you if you want to succeed, you have to do the five days a week.
18:18
SPEAKER_05: But at the same time, I just I didn't really like how concert-driven it was for me personally.
18:24
SPEAKER_05: And that's and everybody's different, but I think that's something that we'll probably go into talking about.
18:29
SPEAKER_05: It's majority, if a lot, I'm not saying all, but a lot of college programs are very concert-driven, modern-driven, ballet-driven programs.
18:40
SPEAKER_05: And there's not a lot that have the jazz and the commercial and the hip-hop and the tap and all the things we love so much from our competition studios.
18:48
SPEAKER_05: So that transition is extremely hard for a lot of dancers that go in and they're like, oh God, I gotta be rolling around on the floor doing modern class at 9 a.m.
18:57
SPEAKER_05: every single day.
18:59
SPEAKER_05: Like and most competition dancers probably never had modern a day in their life prior to getting to college, you know?
19:06
SPEAKER_05: So I that for me personally, that transition from a high school to college was definitely difficult.
19:11
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
19:11
SPEAKER_06: And I mean something you just said that just made me laugh that sounds like duh.
19:16
SPEAKER_06: But who in their junior and senior year of high school is taking a dance class at nine o'clock in the morning?
19:22
SPEAKER_06: Probably like two percent of people, maybe if you go to performing arts high school.
19:25
SPEAKER_06: Right.
19:26
SPEAKER_06: But the shift from okay, my dance classes, you know, start at 5 30 and go till 10 p.m.
19:32
SPEAKER_06: to my dance classes start at nine o'clock in the morning and sometimes still go to 10 p.m.
19:36
SPEAKER_06: Right.
19:37
SPEAKER_06: That's that's a huge shift as well.
19:39
SPEAKER_06: That, you know, your body just has to react to that and be prepared for that and not only have to do all of that, but do it on your own without, you know, anybody, nobody's cooking dinner for you.
19:50
SPEAKER_06: You have to go and go to the calf and choose your food and choose, you know, what am I eating?
19:54
SPEAKER_06: When am I eating?
19:55
SPEAKER_06: Am I eating?
19:56
SPEAKER_06: Hopefully you're eating.
19:57
SPEAKER_06: But yes, you know, there's there's a lot more personal agency and personal responsibility that you know not only just goes into being a college student, but being a dancing college student.
20:07
SPEAKER_05: All right.
20:07
SPEAKER_05: So one of the very first questions on our list that I'm gonna go back to is a a tricky question.
20:15
SPEAKER_05: Not uh yeah, it's true.
20:16
SPEAKER_05: We love a tricky question.
20:18
SPEAKER_05: What do you all think?
20:20
SPEAKER_05: Do you think that dancers have to go to college?
20:25
SPEAKER_05: Because I think that a lot of parents think that everyone needs to go to college.
20:31
SPEAKER_05: Going back to the tricky question, do we feel that dancers have to go to college?
20:37
SPEAKER_05: And I think that with this question, it could be to be successful or to have a career.
20:43
SPEAKER_05: Do they have to go to college?
20:45
SPEAKER_05: Do they have to go to college for dance versus not going to college for dance?
20:49
SPEAKER_05: What are your thoughts in regards to dancers and college?
20:53
SPEAKER_00: My view is no.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: And I said this on the Pathways episode.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: I I think that college is a really wonderful time for growth, just because like the ages of 18 to 22 are a wonderful time for growth.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: Like I think that's when you're kind of entering adulthood and coming into who you are, not fully, but figuring it out.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: And college is a great place to do that because you're away from things that you know and things that are familiar, but you're also in a really controlled environment where you can mess up and the consequences will be less severe than they will be out in the world in most cases.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: In terms of dance, I think getting a degree in dance does not get you a job.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: Like if you say, I have a BFA, that's not gonna book you a job.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: If you are a fierce dancer, that's gonna book you a job.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: Or if you are a great performer, whatever it is, you get you the job.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Your degree does not get you the job.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: However, the training that you get in college can be really, really informative and transformative and all of those things.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: So I think it comes down to the individual.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: And so, like a college education, whether in dance or not, is going to help you to mature.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: And in concert dance, for example, I think.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Will help you to get a job because you're gonna be a really well-rounded thinker.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: But if you want to be a commercial dancer and you want to move to LA, like college will still be there.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: You don't need to go right away.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm in full agreement with Maddie.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: I think you said it perfectly.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: For my personal experience with college was more so I I needed to grow up.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
22:22
SPEAKER_01: Like I needed to mature and kind of be a little bit off balance and figure out which, you know, it was more about a life path than, you know, a career path at that time, which is crazy because you you go into college and you think, what am I gonna do with my life now?
22:38
SPEAKER_01: My career, I have to focus, I have to know what I want to do.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: But really, I think it is like you said, Maddie, a period of growth where you're just kind of figuring yourself out, you know, and if you are mature enough to do that in a, you know, a professional setting, not in college, while you're, you know, auditioning and booking jobs and trying to go for that life, that's great too.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: So I think it really boils down to knowing yourself and knowing what you need and just kind of like who you are in this space, which of course is always developing.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: But I think if you can kind of figure out who that is and what that needs, you know what I mean, at that time in your life, I think that that's gonna be the best way to kind of guide through the decision to either go to s to school or not.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: And you're honestly going to have a great life no matter what, you know what I mean?
23:26
SPEAKER_01: Because in in school, you you'll find people to network with and you'll find these connections and you'll, you know, you'll make those relationships and you'll do that on on both sides.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: I really just think it depends on, you know, what you needed as a person at that time in your life.
23:41
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
23:41
SPEAKER_06: But I think I mean, for me, and I've also said this on the podcast the past couple of years, I really needed to go to college.
23:48
SPEAKER_06: I needed more intensive training than I was getting at home.
23:52
SPEAKER_06: I needed, you know, to be outside of my hometown.
23:55
SPEAKER_06: I needed to go and, you know, see new perspectives and everything.
23:58
SPEAKER_06: And it was really, really good for me in many ways.
24:01
SPEAKER_06: And like you said, yeah, you're meeting people, you're networking, you're you're learning who you are and how you fit into the greater world of the world, but then in my case, the dance world.
24:11
SPEAKER_06: And and I'm, you know, grateful for the time that I was able to spend there.
24:14
SPEAKER_06: Today, had this been a decision I would have made today in the same scenario, I still think I would have wanted to go and needed to go.
24:23
SPEAKER_06: But I also think that, you know, I graduated in 2007.
24:28
SPEAKER_06: How many years has that been now?
24:29
SPEAKER_06: A million?
24:30
SPEAKER_06: Almost 15 years ago.
24:31
SPEAKER_06: The world of dance has changed so much even in that time that the the base question that we asked, do dancers have to go to college?
24:39
SPEAKER_06: I think it's still individual, but I think it's even less no now because we do have so many more programs that are addressing this exact situation.
24:48
SPEAKER_06: There's a two-year program, there's conservatory, you know, things that you can do in high school, there's extra stuff you can do to prepare you and get you physically and technically ready for the kind of work that's going to be out there for you to get as a dancer, but then kind of allows you to not spend the exorbitant amount of money that most college costs that you could potentially not ever, ever recoup.
25:12
SPEAKER_06: Ever, ever, ever in your profession.
25:14
SPEAKER_06: Courtney and I were just talking about this.
25:17
SPEAKER_06: That, you know, I and and God bless my parents.
25:20
SPEAKER_06: Thank you, Brenda and Billy Mueller.
25:21
SPEAKER_06: They sent me to college, they were able to pay for it.
25:24
SPEAKER_06: I don't know how.
25:25
SPEAKER_06: I do not have student loans.
25:26
SPEAKER_06: I am so grateful.
25:28
SPEAKER_06: But OCU, I think at the time, Oklahoma City University, I believe for out of state, costs between$30,000 and$40,000 a year.
25:35
SPEAKER_06: That doesn't count room, board shoes.
25:38
SPEAKER_06: You know, and luckily it's not a ballet program, so I didn't have point shoes.
25:41
SPEAKER_06: But like, you know, just thinking about how much uh just your accoutrement cost just to be a dancer, you know, that's possibly$120,000.
25:50
SPEAKER_06: Have I made$120,000 with my dance degree?
25:54
SPEAKER_06: I've probably spent another$120,000 going to auditions, buying audition wear, you know, doing all the things.
26:00
SPEAKER_06: Voice lessons, training more studios, voice, exactly, class.
26:03
SPEAKER_06: Like I don't know.
26:05
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I would be very curious to talk to anybody and have somebody sit down with their taxes for 10 years and and count up how much money you made from a dance degree-related job that only that you maybe only got because you had a dance degree, versus the babysitting I did for 10 years, the nannying I did, the temp work I did, all you know what I mean?
26:24
SPEAKER_06: Like, so it's that's a big question, and I know a big conversation that some of the parents on this episode that are going to be interested in hearing are thoughts on that, because that's huge.
26:33
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean, I I hear it from my parents all the time, still.
26:37
SPEAKER_05: We're still paying off that one semester of college that you went to.
26:43
SPEAKER_05: And like that, and I think Marymount was the same around like 30 some thousand a year, and I only went for one semester and I got two thousand dollars in scholarships from good old Marymount.
26:56
SPEAKER_05: Thanks so much.
26:57
SPEAKER_05: And I still hear it from that's my dad's that's my impersonation of my dad.
27:02
SPEAKER_05: His favorite thing to say.
27:03
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he said they say it all the time.
27:05
SPEAKER_05: And in a way, for me, I don't know, and this might sound really not selfish, but they wanted me to go.
27:13
SPEAKER_05: So I went, you know, like, and I think a lot of kids are gonna be in that predicament where it's like, oh, I feel so pressured by my parents to get a degree.
27:21
SPEAKER_05: I remember them always saying, Well, what are you gonna do after you're done dancing?
27:24
SPEAKER_05: What do you what do you think you're gonna do?
27:26
SPEAKER_05: You can't dance forever.
27:27
SPEAKER_05: So you need a college degree.
27:29
SPEAKER_05: Like that's what every parent thinks.
27:30
SPEAKER_05: And it's like, yes, if we're if we're going in it, if we're approaching it from that direction, and then maybe I shouldn't go to school for dance, maybe I should go to school for business, or maybe I should go to school for graphic design or something else that interests me that I can do forever once my body breaks down and I can't physically dance anymore.
27:49
SPEAKER_05: But I didn't know that at the time because no one really guided me.
27:52
SPEAKER_05: And like you said, Leslie, now there's so many more resources, something like this podcast right here, something like Angela's book.
27:58
SPEAKER_05: Like there's so many resources now that can help guide you better, but I didn't know any different.
28:03
SPEAKER_05: So I just tried to please my parents and go to school for dance because dance is all I knew.
28:08
SPEAKER_05: And then they were mad that I quit and then mad that they still have a bill.
28:12
SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, sorry about it.
28:15
unknown: Right.
28:16
SPEAKER_05: Like, I'm I feel bad saying that, but like, sorry about it.
28:19
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I totally agree with you, Leslie.
28:21
SPEAKER_05: The amount these college programs cost to go to school for dance are so expensive that I've heard that people have GoFundMe accounts to raise money to go to college for very specific college programs that they've luckily gotten into that are very exclusive, but the bill racks up to 50,000, 60,000 a year.
28:42
SPEAKER_05: And they the the parents can't afford it, but they want it for their kids.
28:45
SPEAKER_05: And it's like, is it really that worth it?
28:48
SPEAKER_05: Like, no, I I don't know.
28:49
SPEAKER_05: And Angela says no.
28:50
SPEAKER_05: No, Angela says no.
28:52
SPEAKER_05: That's a hard no, guys.
28:54
SPEAKER_05: Because, like you said, Angela, you're gonna make, I think, like one of the most important parts, all of these, all of these things we talked about are very important as far as like discovering yourself and being on your own for the first time and growing up and continuing your training and those things.
29:09
SPEAKER_05: But one of the most important things I think about college is networking.
29:12
SPEAKER_05: And depending on what college you go to, you're gonna have more opportunities to network.
29:16
SPEAKER_05: But do you need to spend sixty thousand dollars to network?
29:20
SPEAKER_05: I don't think you do.
29:21
SPEAKER_05: Oh ma'am.
29:22
SPEAKER_05: I don't think you have to.
29:23
SPEAKER_05: I think that you can network in the real world and hustle and grind and make those same exact connections if you're talented and you're passionate and you have the drive to do it.
29:33
SPEAKER_05: But you know, I I think 60,000 for college, oof, like like we also just a year, Courtney, not even for college.
29:42
SPEAKER_05: A year.
29:42
SPEAKER_05: You'll you won't ever pay that back unless you like.
29:45
SPEAKER_05: I mean, what job could you pay that back with as a dancer?
29:48
SPEAKER_05: Like, I don't know.
29:49
SPEAKER_06: I don't even like Broadway, you couldn't.
29:50
SPEAKER_06: I mean, Broadway for years, like years, you'd you'd have to be an ensemble member in like Phantom for four years, like 10 years, for years, and then also not spend that money on your living expenses in New York City in your life.
30:02
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
30:02
SPEAKER_06: I mean, there's just no there's just no way.
30:05
SPEAKER_06: So, yeah.
30:06
SPEAKER_06: Somebody else.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: I think also just speaking from experience, something to consider is I went to a really small school and it was quite expensive because it's a liberal arts college, but I wasn't dancing all day every day.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: And so I did come out with a lot of really other strong skills, like my writing skills and my oral presentation skills and things like that.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: And within my tiny program, the opportunities that I had that were dance related were probably like 10 times the number that my peers in top conservatories had.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: So I got to work with every single guest artist that came through.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Would I have had that opportunity in a conservatory?
30:46
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: I would not have been the best one there.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: I would not have gotten those opportunities.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: Same thing goes for like attending conferences and festivals.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: I got to go to every single one.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: That would not have been the case at a larger program.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: And I came out with skills other than my dance ability, which of course you are going to get other skills no matter where you go to school.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Like we talk about this all the time how dancers are the best employees in so many other ways.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: We're disciplined, we work hard.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: But learning those like writing and communication skills that I picked up in my other major have been really, really critical to my own, what I would call success.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, like I pay my bills completely off of dance-related jobs.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't go to a BFA program.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's important to also like shift the narrative around what success can look like in our industry.
31:34
SPEAKER_06: Totally.
31:35
SPEAKER_06: And Maddie, I'm I'm curious because I I was more interested when I went to school.
31:39
SPEAKER_06: I got a BPA, which I think OCU is the only school in the country that a bachelor of the performing arts, right?
31:46
SPEAKER_06: Interesting.
31:46
SPEAKER_06: So that's why my program was was the one I chose.
31:49
SPEAKER_06: I mean, A number one, it was also the only one I got into, thanks, OCU.
31:53
SPEAKER_06: But but I was, you know, there's the option.
31:55
SPEAKER_06: You have the one BPA you can get, which nobody knows what that is, a BFA, a Bachelor of Fine Arts, you can get a Bachelor of the Arts, and then you can get a BS, which I'm sure exists.
32:05
SPEAKER_06: And I don't remember maybe that's more of management side of things, possibly or the anatomy side of dance.
32:11
SPEAKER_06: But, you know, I I had always heard, and I still don't even really know, that getting a BFA is what you want.
32:17
SPEAKER_06: You want the BFA, not the BA.
32:19
SPEAKER_06: What's Maddie, since you got a BA, can you elaborate a little bit on the pros and cons of all that?
32:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: So, like you said, BA the F is for fine arts as opposed to just arts.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: And BA programs tend to have more flexibility and sometimes less dancing.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't dance all day every day.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: I took probably two dance classes a semester, one of which would be a technique class and the other of which would be a creative class of some sort.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: So whether it's improvisation or composition or a dance history class, performance history, et cetera.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: So the BA usually has fewer requirements.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: There's often not a requirement to perform.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: There is often a requirement to choreograph because it tends to be more of like a holistic approach as opposed to a conservatory style approach, although BFA programs exist within non-conservatory settings.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: Like you can go to a large university and get a BFA.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: But often with a BFA, because of the strict nature of the requirements, it's really hard to double major.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: And so if that's something that you are wanting or your parents are wanting, I think that happens really often.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: Like what's your fallback plan?
33:27
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be really hard.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: And you can get great training in a BA program.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: A lot of like where I went to school, there's a whole network of these small colleges in New England.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: And I will say they are private schools, so they are quite expensive, but they do also tend to have really good, robust financial aid because of the trustees and the way that they're structured as private schools.
33:47
SPEAKER_00: And so, like those programs tend to be really strong in terms of contemporary dance training, and then you can have that double major.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: I think that's the big, the big difference is you're performing less usually and you're taking fewer technique classes and you can double major.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: But I'm sure Angela has more insight as well.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: No, you you nailed it.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: I I think the BA is the best of both worlds a little bit because you get to dance, but you also can have, you know, a different path.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I if it were me, I probably would have done marketing and and you know, dance administration or something.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: But the I I think the BA is a little more, I guess for the for the like you said, for the the parents that are like, well, what are you gonna do after dance?
34:32
SPEAKER_01: And what are you gonna do, you know, what are you gonna do?
34:34
SPEAKER_01: Because as crazy as it sounds, as much as we love it and we've all built a beautiful dance career for ourselves, I think, you know, our parents can't always see that that is an actual path, right?
34:45
SPEAKER_01: And so we, you know, we we kind of get in, we navigate and we do what we have to do and we kind of pave our own way.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: But when you're in high school, it's hard to explain to your parents that that is an actual thing that you can do, you know, and you can actually live a great life from that.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: So they do need something a little, I guess, structured and a little more quote unquote, I say quote unquote, secure because nothing is really secure these days.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: But the BA, I would say, kind of is best of both worlds.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: You can double major, you can, you know, also dance without feeling, you know, that you're 24-7 in the studio every day, unless that's what you want.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: If you want that, great and go for it.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: But I I do I do think the BA is a little bit more of the you know, best of both worlds for everyone.
35:31
SPEAKER_05: Hey listeners, I want to share a little bit about a program that is near and dear to my heart, and it's called Young Arts.
35:38
SPEAKER_05: As a high schooler looking for scholarships to head to college, I applied to Young Arts, not knowing that it would be an experience of a lifetime.
35:45
SPEAKER_05: As a young arts winner, I had the opportunity to attend an all-expense paid trip to Young Arts Week in Miami, where I met new friends, trained with some of the best choreographers in the industry, and opened my eyes to all of the other art forms outside of just dance.
36:00
SPEAKER_05: By applying for Young Arts, you have the chance to receive mentorship opportunities, scholarships, and join a community that helps artists connect, create, and collaborate throughout your entire dance career.
36:11
SPEAKER_05: If you're interested in applying to Young Arts, 2022 National Arts Competition, it is open to visual, literary, and performing artists at age 15 through 18 or through grades 10 through 12.
36:22
SPEAKER_05: And the deadline to apply is by October 15th, 2021.
36:26
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36:30
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36:37
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I agree.
36:38
SPEAKER_05: I remember in college actually when I was debating on if I was gonna continue on with my second semester, I had a meeting with the head of the dance department and was trying to kind of figure out my options because I was living in New York City, not loving school, but really the temptation of auditioning was like there for me.
36:58
SPEAKER_05: And I just wanted to like dive right into the professional world and I didn't want to be at modern class, I wanted to be at the ECC uh for wicked, you know?
37:06
SPEAKER_05: And I had a meeting with them because my parents were obviously not supportive of my uh me leaving, but I said, well, what about switching to a BA?
37:15
SPEAKER_05: And uh that will allow me a little bit more flexibility and then I can still get my degree, but then I can also like not be it won't be frowned upon when I go to get to go to auditions in New York and whatever.
37:27
SPEAKER_05: And the head of head of the department was so upset with that choice and frowned upon it so much and said what a horrible mista like decision that would be for me to transfer to a BA.
37:39
SPEAKER_05: And I couldn't really believe it, but I didn't have anyone, again, to guide off of.
37:43
SPEAKER_05: Like, like I said, I think that's what's so hard about making these big decisions at such a young age, expensive decisions at such a young age as well, because there's really not a lot of guidance.
37:55
SPEAKER_05: And the people who you want to talk to, like your school guidance counselor who's not gonna help you, unless you're out of arts high school, maybe.
38:02
SPEAKER_05: Your dance teachers might know some somewhere to guide you, but at the same time, maybe they didn't go on to pursue a professional career, so they're not familiar with which school is the best for you.
38:13
SPEAKER_05: Which speaking of that, I would love to kind of just chat about a handful of different schools in the world that have great dance programs and what their strengths or are within the dance program.
38:28
SPEAKER_05: If you are a concert dancer, where should you go versus if you want to pursue a professional commercial career, where would you go versus if you're a Trina and you want to be in a ballet company, things like that.
38:38
SPEAKER_05: Do we have any college programs off the top of our head that we could give to our listeners?
38:42
SPEAKER_01: I can start on this one.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: So obviously there's there's all these lists around, and it's like top 10 dance colleges, right?
38:50
SPEAKER_01: And so there's I feel like there's some that we know that are so amazing, like like Leslie, like you said, OCU.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: The thing that I love about, I love a lot of things about their program, but they have levels, right?
39:01
SPEAKER_01: There are there's ballet and jazz and tap, and there's levels of classes.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: You don't go there and you have like jazz one, jazz two, and that's it.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
39:10
SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a frustrating thing for students sometimes when they are are searching for schools, you know, maybe in their area, there's not a variety of levels, right?
39:19
SPEAKER_01: So you get somewhere you feel like you plateau, where of course, as dancers, we always want to keep grow, grow, grow, grow, grow.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: OCU does give you that opportunity to do that for sure.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, there's a s it's it if you're a musical theater person, there's this beautiful program at Baldwin Wallace Colis College, which is in Ohio, and they go above and beyond for their students when it comes to the whole professional experience.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: They take them to new the seniors to New York, they get headshots, they sit them in front of casting people.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like it's like your dream, you know what I mean?
39:53
SPEAKER_01: It's what you, it's definitely what you want to do.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: I know Amda, uh, you know, Amda's in New York and LA, they're making a lot of different changes to their program and a lot of, you know, what I think they're doing is kind of seeing the way the industry is going and they're they're kind of shifting as the as the industry moves, which I think is very important for students and just in general, right?
40:15
SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like a lot of our traditional programs, I don't want to use the word kind of stuck, but you can sometimes get stuck in kind of just, you know, your way.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: However, I think the more realistic and the more appealing way, and you know, will definitely attract, be more attractive to students, is to kind of make those shifts with the industry.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, pace is really good for that too.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: I know that Rhonda over there is always just boom, you know, the commercial dance situation over there, she's kind of the pioneer of the whole, of the whole thing, you know.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like now schools are like, oh, maybe we should try that too, right?
40:50
SPEAKER_01: Ten years later.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: A lot of yeah, exactly.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: You're seeing kind of copycat programs, not, I mean, that's kind of that's kind of what it is, you know, where every people are waking up to the fact that maybe, you know, this is a good idea.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: And it is a good idea because when you think about, you know, students, young students pursuing a commercial dance career, whoa, that is a scary thing.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: So to be able to have, you know, guidance in an actual program that can nurture you through that process is a literally a dream come true.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: Let's see, what uh what else?
41:19
SPEAKER_00: Who else do we love?
41:20
SPEAKER_00: If you want to be a ballerina, I am not a ballerina, but I know of these programs, I think there is a stigma around going to college in the ballet world.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: And obviously, like going to a trainee program is awesome.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: But if you're getting that pressure, the University of Cincinnati has a fantastic ballet program.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: I believe it's within their school of music, and the same is true at the University of Indiana.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: So in Indiana, they have the BFA in ballet through the School of Music as well as the BFA in modern dance, and then Butler also.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: They're like all in the Midwest, all these fabulous ballet programs.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: I also worked at FSU for a little bit, Florida State.
41:55
SPEAKER_00: They have really good ballet training.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: The modern is a little bit more old school, but really good conservatory style training within the context of a large university.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: If if that's something you care about, like you also have to think about your social life, you know, like if you go to a school like Marymount, your life is New York City and your life is concert dance.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you want like big sports, D1 football, sororities, things like that, look at the bigger universities.
42:22
SPEAKER_00: FSU, you're gonna get that college experience with the dance training.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: The University of South Florida also has a really strong dance program that's in Tampa, where I live now.
42:33
SPEAKER_00: And that program, I believe you can choose to concentrate in ballet, which isn't available everywhere.
42:39
SPEAKER_00: And also the University of Arizona has ballet, jazz, and modern tracks.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: So if ballet is important to you, make sure that there is a way to focus on it, especially because when you get to those auditions, a lot of the people in the room have been there since they were 18.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: They're trainees.
42:59
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I'm I'm thinking of a few others that are kind of known in the in the industry.
43:05
SPEAKER_05: And there's one in California that's like USC coffee.
43:11
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that sounds right.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, William Forsyth is like running that program, I think.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: So that faculty is really all-star, but they've also got hip hop going on there, and you're in LA, so you've got access to resources, and that's a new program, so relatively new.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: So I think that like what Angela was saying about programs evolving, that one didn't really have to evolve because it came onto the scene later.
43:35
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
43:35
SPEAKER_05: I love, and I think that's what we need in this college dance world.
43:40
SPEAKER_05: Something that's gonna feel fresh and current and not dated at times.
43:45
SPEAKER_05: Because like you were saying, Angelo, uh, the school, what school was that that you were?
43:49
SPEAKER_05: Oh, Amda.
43:50
SPEAKER_05: You were saying how or actually, no, wait, yes, I love Amda.
43:54
SPEAKER_05: Love them, love what they're doing.
43:55
SPEAKER_05: It was the other school, uh, Ball Baldwin, Baldwin Wallace Wallace, and you were saying.
44:00
SPEAKER_05: How, like, if you want to be on Broadway, they're going to put you in front of the casting directors, they're going to get you headshots, they're going to take you to New York.
44:07
SPEAKER_05: Like when I thought of college, I thought that I was going to be walking out of my four-year degree with those tools, with those things.
44:15
SPEAKER_05: And I mean, I was only there for semester, but I could tell by my the program that I chose that I wasn't going to walk out of school with that.
44:22
SPEAKER_05: I wasn't going to walk out of school with an agent.
44:24
SPEAKER_05: I wasn't going to walk out of school knowing even how my headshot's supposed to look, what my CV's supposed to look like compared to what my pre my audition resume for Broadway is going to look like, or how to sing, or how to read sheet music, or read lines and things that, like, even when you're not a dancer, you have to know how to do those things if you want to be a professional.
44:45
SPEAKER_05: Because in LA, you might be doing commercial work and they might say you need to read this line and this script, and you're not going to know how.
44:52
SPEAKER_05: If you never had an acting for dancers class or a singer's, like learning how to sing and going to voice lessons.
44:59
SPEAKER_05: I mean, like you said at the top of the episode, Leslie, like the amount of money you've put into your training post-college is so like it never ends.
45:07
SPEAKER_05: Like, why isn't there a program in the industry that combines all of the things that I need to be a successful performer in the industry?
45:15
SPEAKER_06: Well, and I I think the answer to that is because a lot of them have not evolved with the times and still think, this is what you need, this is what we offer.
45:22
SPEAKER_06: And then you get out and you're like, well, nobody told me.
45:24
SPEAKER_06: Nobody told me these things.
45:26
SPEAKER_06: And then you're spending more money.
45:27
SPEAKER_06: And I think one the next conversation we have once we wrap this up needs to be what are some of the questions, the important questions that nobody thinks to ask before heading into a college program or auditioning or even taking a tour?
45:42
SPEAKER_06: What are the questions that are important to ask?
45:44
SPEAKER_06: Because that would be an important question that maybe nobody would think of.
45:47
SPEAKER_06: It's like, do you do you offer a vocal class for dancers?
45:50
SPEAKER_06: Do you offer contracts for dancers?
45:53
SPEAKER_06: That's something that, you know, I valued from OCU was that we are OCU is one of the only colleges in the country that does offer voice acting contracts, uh, how to, you know, how to put your resume together, how to do all these things.
46:06
SPEAKER_06: You know, and again, they, they, like many other colleges, are still behind in getting up to the timing of what is current because when I graduated, you know, we didn't, we weren't even allowed to have copies of our own choreography because the school owned it.
46:25
SPEAKER_06: I do not have a copy.
46:26
SPEAKER_06: I do not have a copy of my senior uh showcase piece.
46:30
SPEAKER_06: That was my thesis to graduate.
46:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
46:32
SPEAKER_06: I don't have a copy of it.
46:33
SPEAKER_06: Not allowed to have a copy of it.
46:34
SPEAKER_06: I have no professional footage which I have performed in college.
46:38
SPEAKER_06: OCU allows you to perform.
46:39
SPEAKER_06: Now, and listen, they could have.
46:42
SPEAKER_06: They could have, and it was necessary for me to have a reel at that point, even though I sent it off on a DVD to get my first job.
46:49
SPEAKER_06: That was a thing that was happening in 2007, was that you submitted for jobs sometimes via a DVD, but I didn't have any footage.
46:57
SPEAKER_06: They knew they needed to give us footage, but they didn't because they were stuck in 1985.
47:02
SPEAKER_06: Now, you know, because of the pandemic, OCU produced their Christmas show online.
47:07
SPEAKER_06: OCU produced their spring show, everybody's thesis.
47:10
SPEAKER_06: I got to watch it online.
47:12
SPEAKER_06: And so, yay, for that, thank you for doing that finally.
47:16
SPEAKER_06: But it did it take a pandemic for you to realize that this is a necessary thing for people in this industry to do now.
47:23
SPEAKER_06: And so I think those are important questions that we should kind of talk about a little with are they is the question, you know, are you up with the current times?
47:31
SPEAKER_06: Like, do you even offer programs that are gonna help people succeed in 2022?
47:37
SPEAKER_05: And by the time they graduate, which whatever the 2026, right.
47:42
SPEAKER_05: Like, are you teaching me old information or am I gonna be walking into the industry with the the most accurate, most current details on who are the top choreographers that I need to be getting in with?
47:54
SPEAKER_05: Who are the top casting directors?
47:56
SPEAKER_05: How do I how do I do this?
47:57
SPEAKER_05: How do I do that?
47:58
SPEAKER_06: Like, does this program offer a showcase?
48:00
SPEAKER_06: And that was something, you know, like you were just saying about uh Baldwin Wallace.
48:05
SPEAKER_06: Musical theater programs will offer you a showcase as a senior, in which you do go to New York or LA and you do get to go in front of casting directors.
48:13
SPEAKER_06: And some people graduate from musical theater programs with an agent.
48:16
SPEAKER_06: With jobs.
48:17
SPEAKER_06: Dance programs often do not offer that.
48:19
SPEAKER_06: And that I I found so unfair, so shocking, and something that set me back from some of my peers who in the musical theater program were attempting the same job auditions that I was.
48:31
SPEAKER_06: You know, I just happened to focus on dance, they just happened to focus on singing and acting.
48:35
SPEAKER_06: But because their program offered a showcase, they had a whole step above me when I came to New York.
48:40
SPEAKER_06: So that's also a big thing to ask when you're headed into a college program.
48:44
SPEAKER_06: You know, does this dance program offer a showcase at the end of four years?
48:48
SPEAKER_05: I think Pace does that for their dance program.
48:51
SPEAKER_05: Which is amazing because pretty much every single kid that graduates leaves with an agent and then casting sees the fresh meat that's about to enter the industry, and then they probably get casted in Hamilton.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: Like that's pretty much what happens.
49:05
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes two years in a row.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's yeah, it's they're doing great things.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's awesome.
49:09
SPEAKER_05: So it is refreshing to hear that there are some newer programs out there, and I think you know, then it it really goes back to the question of like looking at these programs and asking all these awesome questions, like you were saying, Leslie.
49:22
SPEAKER_05: Like, I think dancers and parents and teachers need to sit down and write a pros and cons list and a question list of, you know, what what's great about this school, what's not so great about this school, what am I willing to sacrifice, or what what do I really want out of this?
49:37
SPEAKER_05: And then I think pricing does have to come into the mix, you know.
49:41
SPEAKER_05: I think that like to be realistic, I don't think that people should be taking second mortgages out of their house to afford their kids college because they're one of 20 that got in and it costs$65,000 to go to a year.
49:54
SPEAKER_05: Like just being realistic, we've said it on the podcast like you're not gonna make back that money as a dancer.
50:02
SPEAKER_05: It's just reality.
50:03
SPEAKER_05: You're not like sad about it.
50:05
SPEAKER_05: It's gonna take your whole life to pay that back.
50:07
SPEAKER_05: Unless you're very financially stable and wealthy, then lucky for you, then you can afford it.
50:13
SPEAKER_06: But well, but then we have to talk about the inequalities in the dance world because it starts from there.
50:18
SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
50:19
SPEAKER_06: Like the fact that there's plenty of people out there who are perfectly talented and capable and amazing and could go on to do great things, but don't have the finances to get all this information and to get all of this training.
50:32
SPEAKER_06: You know, it's it's mind-boggling.
50:33
SPEAKER_06: And I'm just sitting here like, y'all can't see me, but I'm like rubbing my head in frustration.
50:38
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
50:38
SPEAKER_06: That, you know, and that's why I think, you know, the options that we have in the community now of something like commercial dance intensive that we talked to Casey Noblet about on Maddie's last episode, her program is awesome.
50:50
SPEAKER_06: That's a more affordable.
50:51
SPEAKER_06: It's amazing.
50:52
SPEAKER_06: Also gives you, yeah, Angela, you've been a part of that before.
50:54
SPEAKER_06: We keep hearing about a program in uh Arizona where it's in New Testament.
50:57
SPEAKER_06: It's in Las Vegas.
50:59
SPEAKER_06: Um, you know, there's there's a lot of these programs that, you know, I'm not gonna, I don't see it this way, but like you could sort of frame it this way of like a fast food approach of let's cram all this important information into a a smaller time period, which you know, we've talked about that before as sometimes being a bad thing.
51:16
SPEAKER_06: It's like, no, you can't learn ballet technique in two days.
51:19
SPEAKER_06: But you could probably learn contracts for dancers in a week.
51:22
SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
51:23
SPEAKER_06: So there's there's so many more options now, you know, and so I think engaging your the people in your corner as a high school student who wants to pursue dance, engage your dance teacher, engage, you know, anybody that's mentoring you in your dance life, your parents.
51:39
SPEAKER_06: Find an alumni of the school that you're looking for.
51:42
SPEAKER_06: You know, we have there's how many judges on IDAs or 125 at the moment.
51:48
SPEAKER_06: I would guess at least 50% of these people have a degree in dance from somewhere that you might want to pursue.
51:55
SPEAKER_06: Hello, Impact Dance Adjudicators is here to help you.
51:59
SPEAKER_06: You know, ask us, ask questions, find somebody who went to the school because that's you know, that's gonna be your biggest insight into what that program looks like.
52:08
SPEAKER_00: I also think not getting stuck on the name of the school is really key.
52:13
SPEAKER_00: Like there are so many great programs out there, but great, great according to whom and for whom.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'll give an example.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: NYU, Tish, School of the Arts is a phenomenal training program for contemporary dance.
52:27
SPEAKER_00: But if you don't want to be a contemporary dancer, like if you want to be a commercial dancer or you want to dance on a cruise ship, yes, you're gonna get great training, but there are other places that you can go and get training that is perhaps more suited to what you want to do and probably less expensive.
52:42
SPEAKER_00: And that's just one example.
52:43
SPEAKER_00: Like you can go to Point Park, you can go to University of the Arts.
52:46
SPEAKER_00: These are all really phenomenal programs, but phenomenal according to a very specific set of standards and guidelines.
52:54
SPEAKER_00: And like one program that I would throw out, I'll I'll never forget, when I was in college, my mentor said, Well, the only this is in the context of downtown concert dance in New York City, like experimental, weird modern dance.
53:06
SPEAKER_00: And she said, Well, the only dancers who are consistently getting work are the Connecticut College alum.
53:12
SPEAKER_00: And that's a tiny little school with a phenomenal modern, contemporary, postmodern, whatever we want to call it, dance program that is a BA within a liberal arts school.
53:23
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people haven't heard of it, but those people are getting work consistently in a very specific facet of the field.
53:30
SPEAKER_00: So knowing what you want and knowing that it can change, but knowing what you want going in is going to be really important and being okay with not going to maybe a program that everyone's heard of or a program that's ranked on one of those top 10 lists that don't really matter.
53:43
SPEAKER_01: 100%, Maddie.
53:45
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
53:45
SPEAKER_01: I think for me, I was lucky enough to have an academic scholarship for college, so I didn't have any money, right?
53:52
SPEAKER_01: Meaning I didn't have any money owed, which was amazing.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: And so you have to look at your your goals and your priorities and what you want, just exactly like Maddie said, and take it kind of work backwards from there.
54:03
SPEAKER_01: And then you say, okay, this is these these are the funds.
54:07
SPEAKER_01: Now what?
54:07
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
54:08
SPEAKER_01: Like that's kind of the the least important.
54:12
SPEAKER_01: Like you don't want it to be this like daunting thing that keeps you, you know, keeps you from going.
54:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, sometimes going to a local school and you know, maybe teaching on the side or training on the side or something, you know, you just everybody has like their own distinct kind of path.
54:30
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I would just say base it around your goals and let, you know, let the money kind of be later.
54:36
SPEAKER_06: And I think an important thing that I saw somebody from my school post this the other day, and it really, it really hit me because of my trajectory with my career.
54:44
SPEAKER_06: I r retired, I love to say I retired three years ago from performing.
54:49
SPEAKER_06: And it was hands down the hardest decision I've ever made.
54:53
SPEAKER_06: I knew I didn't like, I didn't love it the way I used to.
54:55
SPEAKER_06: I knew it wasn't serving me.
54:57
SPEAKER_06: I walked into every audition, just not, I was not happy to be there.
55:01
SPEAKER_06: Dancing did not make me happy.
55:03
SPEAKER_06: Nobody had ever, ever told me, my parents, my teachers, my mentors, nobody had ever told me it's okay to change your mind.
55:10
SPEAKER_03: Ooh, girl.
55:12
SPEAKER_06: And somebody said on this post, you know, BFA musical theater programs don't tell you it's okay to change your mind.
55:18
SPEAKER_06: And I chimed in.
55:18
SPEAKER_06: I said, dance programs don't tell you that either.
55:20
SPEAKER_06: You know, they they don't give you that support of listen, you're a human being from eight, you know, yes, we've all been dancing since we were three.
55:27
SPEAKER_06: So, like, that's a lifetime of doing something to the extent of creating a career out of it.
55:33
SPEAKER_06: And nobody, nobody even expects that it's gonna become not your passion anymore.
55:39
SPEAKER_06: You know, nobody thinks, oh, this is never, I'm never gonna not love this.
55:42
SPEAKER_06: But it happens.
55:43
SPEAKER_06: And so I think that's an important thing to consider too, is like, okay, when you're 18, think about yourself at 28, think about yourself at 38, think about yourself at 48.
55:53
SPEAKER_06: What else might you want to be doing?
55:55
SPEAKER_06: It doesn't always have to be dance.
55:56
SPEAKER_06: It doesn't, you know, it doesn't mean you're a bad person.
55:58
SPEAKER_06: It doesn't mean you're not great at what you do right now, it doesn't mean that you're, you know, an imposter.
56:04
SPEAKER_06: It just means you're a person and you have multi, you know, faceted and multi- multifaceted life in a, you know, different world.
56:10
SPEAKER_06: So, you know, I and I think all of us, you know, I haven't set foot on a stage in several years.
56:16
SPEAKER_06: Some of us haven't just because it's been a pandemic.
56:18
SPEAKER_06: But all four of us have done things within the dance world that we can look back on our, you know, years of training and years of passion and say that contributed to this, and this might be different.
56:30
SPEAKER_06: But all of those experiences, whether you choose college or whether you choose a training program, or whether you just, you know, go to your state school and study business and teach on the side, like it's all it is all important, it's all valid.
56:41
SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
56:42
SPEAKER_05: I I really love what you said there, Leslie, because I think what's and I and as you were saying a lot of that, I was reflecting back on, you know, sitting down and making the decision on my end with college when I was 18.
56:56
SPEAKER_05: And I think that what is interesting or the pressure that I felt a lot when I was making the choice was I went to a regular high school where everyone was a jock and everyone played a sport and everyone like ruled the world if you played lacrosse in Maryland.
57:11
SPEAKER_05: Like, like you're the lacrosse star, you're the like the most popular.
57:16
SPEAKER_05: And here I am dancing at my dance school, and I wasn't on the dance team at high school, and everyone didn't understand that.
57:23
SPEAKER_05: And I was like, no, I train at my studio and I do dance competitions, whatever.
57:28
SPEAKER_05: But I was seeing all of these high school sports stars getting scholarships with their sports.
57:34
SPEAKER_05: So for me, I kept looking at, well, my sport is dance.
57:38
SPEAKER_05: So how do I get a scholarship?
57:40
SPEAKER_05: It felt so much pressure to go to school for dance because that's what I always did and that's what I do.
57:47
SPEAKER_05: And I felt like I had to do right by my parents to get a scholarship to help them financially be able to afford it.
57:54
SPEAKER_05: And if I didn't get a scholarship for dance, then I would be looked down upon, like I'm not good enough or something like that.
58:00
SPEAKER_05: And there was just weird pressures of like the scholarship aspect where I also knew if I actually went to school for something other than dance, like I wish I was smart enough back when I was 18, looking back, I wish I would have gone to school for business.
58:13
SPEAKER_05: Or I actually have always been a computer nerd my entire life.
58:17
SPEAKER_05: I wish I would have gone to school for like coding or web design or graphic design or something else that would have been a new skill that I could have learned and actually used later in life and danced on the side, kind of like what you said, Angela.
58:30
SPEAKER_05: You know, if I could have gone to school in New York and I could have been training at Broadway Dance Center and I could have been making those connections and auditioning and getting my degree.
58:38
SPEAKER_05: And same can apply to Los Angeles or anywhere you want to go to school and or being on the dance team with the college that you go to.
58:47
SPEAKER_05: You're still training in dance, you're still working on the teamwork aspect and making connections and staying in shape and all the things, but you're not bound to a dance program and you're getting a degree in something else.
58:58
SPEAKER_05: So I I very much support that route.
59:01
SPEAKER_05: I don't necessarily think that you have to go to school for dance.
59:05
SPEAKER_05: And we said it at the very top of the episode: do you have to?
59:07
SPEAKER_05: I don't think you have to to be successful.
59:10
SPEAKER_05: I think all of us have had all four of us here have had different paths with our choice when it came to college, whether it was going to school for dance performance or not making it through school or going to school for something completely different.
59:23
SPEAKER_05: And look where we're at.
59:24
SPEAKER_05: I mean, we're doing great.
59:25
SPEAKER_05: We're doing what we love.
59:27
SPEAKER_05: We have successful careers and successful businesses, so many opportunities that have come through our lives.
59:33
SPEAKER_05: And I think that it's just important to for for young dancers to realize that you don't, just because you danced your whole life doesn't mean you have to go to school for dance, which is what the pressure that I felt.
59:44
SPEAKER_05: I felt like I didn't know anything else.
59:46
SPEAKER_05: And I guess I have to do this because college is important and maybe I can help get a few bucks off my tuition.
59:53
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, there's a lot of pressure out there.
59:54
SPEAKER_06: And I think so for the parents listening, you know, I'm not a parent.
59:57
SPEAKER_06: As are any of us parents, Angela, you have kids?
1:00:00
SPEAKER_06: So listen, we're not parents.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_06: We're speaking, you know, from the perspective of we are now older and wiser, but we were those kids feeling the pressure.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_06: You know, I can understand.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_06: I can understand that, you know, parents are just they want security for their kid.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_06: They also want them to be happy.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_06: They, you know, some parents are just they want to do everything they possibly can, even if that means going into debt to get your kid to be happy and succeed, but just lay off a little bit respectfully, y'all.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_06: Because that's a lot.
1:00:27
SPEAKER_06: It's a lot to put on a kid.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_06: And, you know, I even had to tell my parents my way of having them agree for me to go to school.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_06: My mom's a dance teacher, a dance studio owner, my dad's a musician, like they do appreciate the arts, but nobody wanted me to go to school for dance.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_06: Nobody, not a single person.
1:00:44
SPEAKER_06: Even when I got in, they still didn't want me to do it.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_06: But I said, you know, I'm gonna go to school for dance therapy later.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_06: I want to get a master's in dance therapy at Leslie University, one of the only schools at the time that had a dance therapy major or a master's program.
1:00:56
SPEAKER_06: Did I really want to do that?
1:00:57
SPEAKER_06: No.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_06: You know, so I told a little fib because I thought it would, it would let them pers let me pursue this.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_06: And that worked.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_06: And you know, here I am with no master's degree and like dance therapy makes me, I just don't think my heart could handle it.
1:01:09
SPEAKER_06: But, you know, there there are always options.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_06: And I think uh to kind of close out, I do want to kind of make a little list for people of some questions to just have on your mind when you do end up going to visit a college program or you're looking into college programs, because I think I think people do feel a little lost even in the beginning stages of this.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_06: So, what are some things that people should just ask when they're headed into this situation?
1:01:34
SPEAKER_00: I would say to definitely ask about opportunities to work with guest artists and make sure that you ask a student because the faculty members are wonderful.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_00: But in a lot of cases, they're gonna say, Well, we had this person and this person and this person, but it's such a small minority of the students that get to work with that person.
1:01:53
SPEAKER_00: So try to talk to some freshmen if you can, because they're just getting into it and they can tell you, like, well, I haven't worked with anyone yet, or even talk to some seniors, and they'll say, Well, in my four years or three and a half when you're touring the school, I've gotten to work with one guest artist out of 12 who have come through.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_00: Because in larger programs, that is the reality.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_00: I would also ask about support for going to conferences and festivals and if there are opportunities to do so and if the the department supports that financially.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_00: Because beyond during the year, if you want to study in the summer, that is an added expense.
1:02:29
SPEAKER_00: And those programs often have some financial aid.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_00: But like what Courtney was saying, you might get$2,000 to pay for a many thousand dollar program.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_00: And so it doesn't really necessarily put a dent in it.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_00: So ask if the school has funding for that.
1:02:44
SPEAKER_06: Awesome.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_06: I love that.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_01: I would ask about performance opportunities.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_01: You know, how many do you get each year that you're there?
1:02:52
SPEAKER_01: I know that it differs for per school, per program, but also per grade, you know, freshman through senior year.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_01: Another thing I would ask about is, you know, some dance programs have weight requirements, you know, you maybe inquire about that and just, you know, are there weigh-ins?
1:03:08
SPEAKER_01: Which I know sounds crazy, but I think it's a good idea to double check because if there is that expectation, you definitely don't want to be caught off guard.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean with that.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_01: Another question I would ask are kind of non-dance related, but do you have any mental health things set up for students, right?
1:03:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is the process of the transition to freshman year, but you're also dancing and you're doing everything.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_01: And then you also have this pressure and you're overthinking everything, and it's like, ah, so it's it's good to know that you can have some resources, somebody to talk to, and you definitely want to have access to that and you definitely want to take advantage of that.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you just need to go sit on a couch and just vent, right?
1:03:52
SPEAKER_01: It's it's just just the healthy thing to do.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_01: And I definitely would double that that guest artist situation because they're going to be kind of one of your things that you have to look forward to as far as you know, outside perspectives and outside opportunities.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_01: Guest artists are also a beautiful way to expand your personal network.
1:04:12
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
1:04:13
SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's good that your face can be in their vortex, I guess, all that kind of stuff.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I um those are those would be my my top questions.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_00: I would also ask about choreographic opportunities, whether you're interested at age 18 or not, ask what types of opportunities you might have to make your own work, and if that work would be produced in a formal concert or if you'd have to fall find an alternative space.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_00: You might go in being really scared of choreography and by your sophomore junior year, your perspective has shifted.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_00: And if the school doesn't have opportunities to support that, you're gonna be a little upset if you can't make work.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_00: And the same goes for teaching.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, are there opportunities for mentorship or student teaching, or can you do an independent study with a faculty member on teaching?
1:04:59
SPEAKER_00: These are things that, again, at age 18, you might not think, well, I want to be a dance teacher.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_00: But when you're 21, you might think, wow, I really want to be a dance teacher.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_00: So always good to ask and figure out what is there for you.
1:05:12
unknown: Yeah.
1:05:12
SPEAKER_06: And piggybacking off of that, auditions, you know, are you allowed to audition while you're in this program?
1:05:17
SPEAKER_06: Would they take you back if you booked a job, left for a semester, and came back?
1:05:22
SPEAKER_06: A lot of schools will not let you do that.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_06: A lot of schools will.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_06: But that's, you know, again, same thing, Angela.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_06: Like you said, you don't want to be caught off guard when if you expect that to be the case and then it's not.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_06: Another thing, if you do, you know, if you are lucky enough to have a scholarship that's funded by the school or the program, how what's your GPA?
1:05:41
SPEAKER_06: What is the limit to how low your grade can get?
1:05:44
SPEAKER_06: And, you know, have you keep that scholarship?
1:05:46
SPEAKER_06: That's really important as well.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_06: Because I think another thing that we didn't even really talk about is that at dancing college, you are getting graded A's, B's, C's on your dancing, not only at your dance history class where you're writing a paper about.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_06: Mr.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_06: Mill, but in your ballet technique class, how are your Tondos?
1:06:04
SPEAKER_06: Like you are getting graded, and that is usually, you know, unless your studio does some kind of you know check-in or report card situation, which some do, but most don't.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_06: Nobody, you know, have you ever been actually graded on your dancing?
1:06:16
SPEAKER_06: Probably not.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_06: That's a new thing too.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_06: So, like, if you're getting a B in ballet, what does that mean to your scholarship?
1:06:23
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm I'm so glad that you brought that up, Leslie, because that is a huge reality check that a lot of dancers probably don't realize when it comes to grades.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_05: And I'm really, really glad that you brought up the whole auditioning thing because like I mentioned before, I wanted to audition and I I wasn't allowed to.
1:06:39
SPEAKER_05: I'm in the middle of New York City at Marymount, wasn't allowed to audition until you get to your senior year.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_05: So a lot of the questions that I would ask would be very similar to that, and saying, What are you, what kind of courses are you providing me or classes are you providing me that are going to help me walk into the professional world successfully?
1:06:57
SPEAKER_05: Like the resume class that we were talking about.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_05: Maybe a class like how to build your own dance reel and how to use a video editor and different things like that, mentoring opportunities with different choreographers or working with those types of people.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_05: I think that's the networking that we've been talking about a lot of the times.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_05: I've known I've heard a lot of success stories of guest choreographers coming in to set a piece in a college program, and then next thing you know, that dancer's getting hired on Broadway because they that choreographer liked them and now they're graduated and they now they have a job rolling out of school.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_05: You know, like that, those are the networking things that we are talking about.
1:07:31
SPEAKER_05: However, I will go back to that same exact scenario could happen without college.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_05: So there's that.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_05: But those are the type of things I know that I would like to know is can I audition?
1:07:41
SPEAKER_05: Can I come back to school if I decide to come back to school?
1:07:43
SPEAKER_05: Are you going to be supportive of this for me?
1:07:46
SPEAKER_05: And how are you going to launch me into the real world?
1:07:48
SPEAKER_05: When I graduate, am I going to be a hundred percent fully prepared for what to expect when I get thrown into the woods of what auditioning in New York City or Los Angeles feels like?
1:07:58
SPEAKER_05: If you're doing a professional dance career, if you want to go that route.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_05: We didn't really talk about this much either, but as we were all kind of collectively saying these different questions, I think another thing that's really important for people to remember is pick a program that is that is very much based around your goal with your dance career.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_05: So, like we've said we talked a lot about dance performance, and we listed a lot of different schools that have great performance programs, but there's a lot of great schools that focus more on the choreographic process if you want to be a choreographer.
1:08:28
SPEAKER_05: And there are a lot of programs that have great dance education that you and then there's some that have the the best of everything.
1:08:34
SPEAKER_05: So if you're uncertain at the time when you're deciding your school and you're like, well, I might want to perform, I might want to be a teacher, find a program that has a great, you know, is offering both of those to you so you can take whichever path you want.
1:08:47
SPEAKER_05: Whereas, like you said, I think Maddie said that like if you go to a school that doesn't even offer any opportunities for you to collaborate and and experience the choreographic process, but you want to be a choreographer, then maybe not that's not the best school for you.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_05: It's obviously a lot of decisions to make at 18 years old.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_05: It's a very hard decision.
1:09:04
SPEAKER_05: But the other important thing is that you can always transfer.
1:09:07
SPEAKER_05: I have a quick story that actually made that made me think of somebody, uh a very, very, very close friend of mine I grew up training with, extremely talented dancer.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_05: He now dances in California with the dance company, but he was with complexions for a while.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_05: Anyway, I helped guide him through his dance, his dance journey oftentimes.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_05: And he his senior year, he's like, Yeah, I'm gonna I applied for to Arizona, which at the time and is still is a great dance program.
1:09:35
SPEAKER_05: Well, come to find out, he gets to school and he's attending Arizona State University and not University of Arizona.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_05: Oh experimental dance city.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_05: And I was like, Oh my god, no, no offense to you like USASU, but you you should have gone to U of A.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_05: And he's like, wait, what?
1:09:56
SPEAKER_05: You're talking about Arizona, and I was like, Oh my gosh.
1:09:58
SPEAKER_05: So then he actually transferred and auditioned the next year for the Fordham Ailey program and successfully got in and transferred, which then led him to Ailey to company and then complexions and all the things.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_05: So I think that if you don't love your dance program, or if you maybe realize once you get there that you've made a wrong decision or a poor choice in the selection at 18 years old, then you do have the opportunity to transfer.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_05: Like you said, we're allowed to like change our mind and change our decision.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_05: So I think that's another important thing is you know, hop around and find the one that works best for you.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_05: I'm sure that if you're talented and you want to go to school, any dance program would love to have you.
1:10:40
SPEAKER_05: Well, y'all, I think we talked about a lot of things when it comes to college.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_05: Dance.
1:10:46
SPEAKER_05: Dance in college.
1:10:47
SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh.
1:10:48
SPEAKER_05: Wow.
1:10:48
SPEAKER_05: I I think we could talk for another two or three hours about it.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot to cover.
1:10:54
SPEAKER_01: Always so much to cover.
1:10:55
SPEAKER_05: Always so much.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_05: We could dig even deeper into this discussion.
1:10:59
SPEAKER_05: But I hope for all of our listeners out there who are listening, you maybe found some reassurance and maybe learned something new, or maybe have a new perspective on dancing in college, or maybe heard about some new schools that you're going to look into for your dancers, or maybe you're gonna sit down and have a nice little conversation with your dancer about what are your goals for the future and where do you see yourself going to college, or do you want to go to college, or do you want to go to college for something other than dance?
1:11:29
SPEAKER_05: I think all of these are fair conversations to have, and now's the time to have them for all of my seniors out there.
1:11:35
SPEAKER_05: If you're a senior and you're listening and you're making this big decision, I hope that you found this episode a little bit helpful.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_05: And I'm so grateful to have such wise individuals here sharing their wealth of knowledge about the college dance scene with us on the podcast today.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_05: So thank you so much, Maddie and Angela, for joining us.
1:11:56
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
1:11:56
SPEAKER_06: So, uh friends, as we end our episode, we always have our guests lead us out with any, you know, wise wisdom, uh, any advice that you want to leave for the listeners looking to think about going to college for dance.
1:12:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, dancers, I would say I know this process can be a little crazy and we overthink it and it's super pressure matic, but just know whatever decision you make is gonna be the right decision.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_01: You just have to get in there and work it.
1:12:24
SPEAKER_01: Whatever you're gonna bring to the table is what's gonna move your life and your career forward.
1:12:28
SPEAKER_01: And again, whatever decision you make is gonna be the right one.
1:12:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, do your research, ask questions, reach out to people.
1:12:36
SPEAKER_00: We're so connected now with social media.
1:12:38
SPEAKER_00: You can find a current student.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_00: It sounds a little stalkerish, but you can find a current student.
1:12:43
SPEAKER_00: In fact, the school might be able to put you in touch with someone and you can DM them, you can private message them, whatever it is, ask your questions, get your information, and use your resources, ask for help, and don't let the name of the school bog you down, go to the best fit school for you.
1:12:59
SPEAKER_04: Thanks so much for joining us for episode 69, Dance in College.
1:13:03
SPEAKER_04: Be sure to follow our guests on social media.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_04: You can find Maddie at MaddieKirks92 and Angela at Miss Angela Carter.
1:13:12
SPEAKER_05: Also, if you're interested in downloading Angela's book, the Genius Guide to College Dance program, volume three is launching this month.
1:13:19
SPEAKER_05: Learn more at geniuscollegeguide.com or click the link in our show notes now.
1:13:26
SPEAKER_06: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
1:13:36
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1:13:43
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1:13:51
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1:13:56
SPEAKER_04: Be sure to check out IDA affiliated competition StarTalent.
1:14:00
SPEAKER_04: StarTalent will be celebrating their 16th season in 2022.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_04: They are thrilled to continue working with Impact Dance Adjudicators by having IDA judges on their juggles.
1:14:11
SPEAKER_04: StarTalent holds events in Ohio, Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia.
1:14:18
SPEAKER_05: And their national finals take place in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina from June 15th through 19th.
1:14:24
SPEAKER_05: Their program was created to offer a positive dance environment for both recreational and competitive dancers.
1:14:30
SPEAKER_05: Their goal is to provide you with an atmosphere that is fun, organized, and fair for dancers, teachers, and parents.
1:14:36
SPEAKER_05: StarTalent believes that competition is about becoming the best dancer you can be in performance and attitude.
1:14:42
SPEAKER_05: Awards are presented by category and division, and high score awards are separated by three levels.
1:14:48
SPEAKER_05: StarTalent also offers cash awards, scholarships, and title opportunities.
1:14:53
SPEAKER_05: To learn more about Star Talent and register now for their upcoming 2022 season, head to StarTalent Productions.com.
1:15:02
SPEAKER_06: We are on a roll in season three with some excellent episodes coming your way.
1:15:06
SPEAKER_06: Stay tuned for social media and TikTok, overstretching and flexibility, and our first spotlight feature of season three.
1:15:14
SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much for tuning in to Making the Impact.
1:15:17
SPEAKER_04: See you next week.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_04: Until then, keep dancing.