Latest / Birdland Territory / O's pitching development with director of pitching, Forrest Herrmann

Transcript

O's pitching development with director of pitching, Forrest Herrmann · Birdland Territory

0:03
Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in latest edition of Birdland Territory. We're missing
0:06
Speaker 1: Brad today, but Brad Brock will be back in a
0:08
Speaker 1: couple of days. We got a great guest to talk to,
0:11
Speaker 1: Tim and I. Forrest Herman is the Orioles director of pitching.
0:15
Speaker 1: I've known him since he first joined the organization in 2022,
0:19
Speaker 1: out interviewing him at Ripken Stadium in Aberdeen when you
0:22
Speaker 1: were the pitching coach there, Forrest. Moved on to AA
0:25
Speaker 1: in 2023. Moved up to become management of sorts, I guess,
0:29
Speaker 1: as the lower level pitching coordinator in 24. director of
0:34
Speaker 1: pitching development in 25 director of pitching in 2026. So
0:39
Speaker 1: different titles, but you keep moving up the ladder for us.
0:41
Speaker 1: And I'm really excited for you because, uh, I felt
0:44
Speaker 1: the first time I met you, man, this is a
0:46
Speaker 1: sharp young guy. You had a background at the premier
0:49
Speaker 1: pitching performance where I think you met a young man
0:52
Speaker 1: named John means back in the day. And, uh, you
0:55
Speaker 1: and the staff there helped him turn into an opening
0:58
Speaker 1: day starter in the major leagues.
0:59
Speaker 2: You work for the.
1:00
Speaker 1: Reds and the Mariners and now the Orioles. And, uh,
1:03
Speaker 1: you and your staff, man, you've got some pitching prospects
1:06
Speaker 1: to work with in Birdland. 2026 must have been a
1:09
Speaker 1: fun season for us.
1:11
Speaker 2: It was a very fun season.
1:13
Speaker 3: Really, I appreciate you guys having me on, but really,
1:16
Speaker 3: really proud of our coaches, coordinators, and mostly the players
1:20
Speaker 3: for doing the hardest part of it. And, you know,
1:23
Speaker 3: great to see everybody leveling up. And Iron sharpens iron.
1:27
Speaker 3: It's been a really fun dynamic, and the continuity in
1:31
Speaker 3: our group has allowed us to learn and better serve
1:35
Speaker 3: each wave of a player coming through.
1:37
Speaker 2: So we had a really.
1:39
Speaker 3: Fun season watching these guys night in and night out
1:42
Speaker 3: across a handful of different levels.
1:44
Speaker 1: Well, one thing I want to ask at the outset is,
1:47
Speaker 1: and I've talked to many minor league staff over the
1:49
Speaker 1: years about the pride they take in seeing a player
1:53
Speaker 1: go to the major leagues. And this year in Baltimore,
1:57
Speaker 1: Brandon Young, what he did was exceptional. At the end
2:00
Speaker 1: of the year, we saw Luis de Leon in the bullpen.
2:02
Speaker 1: That was amazing. First international guy under Elias and Kobe
2:06
Speaker 1: Perez to make it all the way to Baltimore, joins
2:09
Speaker 1: Visayo there. And Trey Gibson had a great start late
2:12
Speaker 1: in the year. I mean, what excitement is that just
2:16
Speaker 1: organization-wide when you see young kids pitching well in Baltimore?
2:22
Speaker 3: It's so exciting to see that. I I think you
2:24
Speaker 3: alluded to Kobe and Mike and having, um, having daily
2:29
Speaker 3: own be the first one to work his way all
2:31
Speaker 3: the way up through the system. But there are so
2:33
Speaker 3: many people that impacted him from the time at the
2:37
Speaker 3: DR complex to Anderson Tavares, helping him across the system
2:41
Speaker 3: as a Latin American pitching coordinator.
2:44
Speaker 2: And then ultimately the coaches doing a.
2:47
Speaker 3: Great job at every step to serve the player, learn
2:51
Speaker 3: how to help Louise through different things. And, uh, really
2:55
Speaker 3: a cool thing to see. And then that extends over
2:58
Speaker 3: on the amateur scouting side with a player like Trey Gibson,
3:01
Speaker 3: where the work isn't done after the draft is complete.
3:06
Speaker 3: We keep working and those guys did a great job
3:09
Speaker 3: bringing him on. And then obviously from there, he did
3:13
Speaker 3: so much of the hard work and whatnot, but it
3:16
Speaker 3: was a team effort across the whole system. A lot
3:20
Speaker 3: of people in that village for all of them. And
3:24
Speaker 3: depending on the guy, what his background is, what he needs,
3:28
Speaker 3: he has different people who come to the table to
3:30
Speaker 3: help him. And, uh, ultimately it, it's been a really
3:34
Speaker 3: fun thing to see those guys experience success, go, you know,
3:38
Speaker 3: have the, uh, have the big stakes and, uh, whether
3:42
Speaker 3: it was towards the end for daily own or in
3:45
Speaker 3: the middle when, uh, when we were up against it
3:48
Speaker 3: and Gibson went into Yankee stadium.
3:50
Speaker 2: So I think everybody feels, uh, a sense of pride.
3:53
Speaker 3: And contribution when they see players that they've helped or, um,
3:59
Speaker 3: you know, guided or given opportunity to throughout, go, go
4:02
Speaker 3: do the thing. And then Brandon Young's developed at the
4:05
Speaker 3: major league level, a ton of credit to our major
4:07
Speaker 3: league group there. It doesn't end in the minor leagues and, uh,
4:11
Speaker 3: the work those guys did with BY and, uh, BY,
4:15
Speaker 3: obviously the, the calluses he built over the years, um,
4:22
Speaker 3: And that one from a rehab to a pitching development
4:25
Speaker 3: to a major league group. It's really fun to have
4:27
Speaker 3: the different parties, the different pockets of the org impacting
4:31
Speaker 3: these guys.
4:32
Speaker 2: And they're starting to make an impact.
4:35
Speaker 4: Forrest, focusing in on Luis de Leon, we talked so
4:39
Speaker 4: many times, so many episodes, just how impressed we were
4:42
Speaker 4: at that young man's poise. Where he transitioned to becoming
4:47
Speaker 4: a reliever to help this team while they were competing
4:49
Speaker 4: for a playoff spot. and he was getting thrown into
4:52
Speaker 4: the fire, man, and he didn't wilt at all. I
4:55
Speaker 4: was just so impressed. Electric arm, but talk about maybe transitioning. Obviously,
5:01
Speaker 4: he's going to be a starting pitcher again next year, Craig,
5:04
Speaker 4: and Mike talked about that at the season-ending press conference,
5:07
Speaker 4: but talk about that transition. He had four outings at
5:11
Speaker 4: Norfolk before coming up in Baltimore in the pen.
5:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, the transition, it's something we felt really good about
5:21
Speaker 3: the person and seeing him go through different, really different
5:25
Speaker 3: things over the years. And whether that was spring training,
5:29
Speaker 3: a major league spring training game and coming out of
5:32
Speaker 3: the bullpen facing the pirates. And at that point, the
5:36
Speaker 3: biggest situation of this career or, you know, pitching in
5:39
Speaker 3: some other packed houses for major league games and the
5:42
Speaker 3: way he's major league spring training games and the way
5:46
Speaker 3: he had always handled the, the big moments.
5:49
Speaker 2: And, In addition to that, the way that he handled.
5:54
Speaker 3: Success and failure throughout the minor leagues gave us a
5:59
Speaker 3: lot of conviction that he was going to be okay
6:01
Speaker 3: if it went really well and that he was going
6:02
Speaker 3: to be okay even if it was a little bit
6:05
Speaker 3: of a learning curve. And that's what you saw in Norfolk.
6:09
Speaker 3: But under the hood, he was doing just fine. He
6:13
Speaker 3: was adjusting to the.
6:15
Speaker 2: Warm-up cadence and the warm-up routine. That's not.
6:20
Speaker 3: always the easiest thing, but it's something that when you
6:24
Speaker 3: pay attention and have a large amount of attention to
6:28
Speaker 3: detail and you have the right group around them being,
6:31
Speaker 3: you know, Anderson Tavares, Jeff Ware, and then some of
6:35
Speaker 3: his teammates that were passing through Norfolk at the time
6:38
Speaker 3: and on rehab and, um, guys who'd been in the
6:42
Speaker 3: major leagues who, when you know how to carry yourself
6:45
Speaker 3: in a clubhouse and be a, um, be a great
6:49
Speaker 3: presence amongst a team guys are willing to help you.
6:54
Speaker 3: And he has great intent through how he goes about things.
6:58
Speaker 3: And ultimately he, you know, ultimately he went through a
7:03
Speaker 3: little bit, but it was all right. There's holes in
7:07
Speaker 3: the mound here. We need to learn to navigate that.
7:09
Speaker 2: Okay.
7:10
Speaker 3: We maybe need to simplify our pitch mix a little
7:13
Speaker 3: bit so that we can just command the zone because
7:15
Speaker 3: we don't have the third time through the order.
7:18
Speaker 2: Okay, there's a bag open. Um, do we pitch this
7:21
Speaker 2: guy a little bit different?
7:22
Speaker 3: And those are the lessons you're learning along the way,
7:24
Speaker 3: but the more engaged you are in, in the bullpen
7:29
Speaker 3: with your coaches, with your teammates, you could pick those
7:31
Speaker 3: things up pretty quick. And when you respond well to
7:34
Speaker 3: pressure and big moments in an environment, and we felt
7:37
Speaker 3: pretty good that he'd have a, you know, he'd have
7:40
Speaker 3: a good shot at it. And, uh, he, you know,
7:43
Speaker 3: he proved himself right in that sense. And, uh, you know, Steve,
7:48
Speaker 3: you saw him in Aberdeen plenty. And then you saw
7:52
Speaker 3: him even early in the season in double A and
7:55
Speaker 3: like the kids resilient. And, you know, those are the
8:01
Speaker 3: real things that go into it.
8:02
Speaker 2: And then it's just small skills from there.
8:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. Saw him in Bowie and his on field looked
8:11
Speaker 1: a lot lighter than the box score that night. And
8:13
Speaker 1: I left thinking, This kid's turned around his season, and
8:16
Speaker 1: the folks in Bowie told me he in fact had.
8:19
Speaker 1: And so how did you guys determine, and Craig Albernaz
8:22
Speaker 1: would tell us late in the year, a lot of
8:25
Speaker 1: Zoom calls, a lot of meetings amongst organization-wide pitching coaches
8:29
Speaker 1: to determine this kid could handle all this, handle the
8:33
Speaker 1: move to AAA, handle the move to the bullpen. Boom,
8:36
Speaker 1: he's pitching in high leverage in the major leagues. This
8:38
Speaker 1: happened within weeks almost. How did you guys determine he
8:42
Speaker 1: might be able to handle it?
8:44
Speaker 3: I think that's years of, of learning Luis and Luis
8:48
Speaker 3: showing us who he, he really is when, uh, when
8:52
Speaker 3: there are different stakes, there are different trials and tribulations throughout. And, um,
8:58
Speaker 3: it's a collaborative effort across the organization, but you don't
9:02
Speaker 3: always come to those conclusions, like a snap of a finger. Um,
9:06
Speaker 3: it may feel that way from the outside, but so
9:10
Speaker 3: many things that he did go through between spring trainings
9:13
Speaker 3: in the past Arizona fall league. Um, and then, you know,
9:18
Speaker 3: down the stretch, it was really to, he had so
9:21
Speaker 3: many skills. It was learning how and when to apply them. And,
9:24
Speaker 3: you know, we, we made sure we had the right
9:27
Speaker 3: people around him at the right times, or at least
9:31
Speaker 3: what we, we thought was the best ecosystem for him
9:34
Speaker 3: to develop in. And, um, they did a great job
9:37
Speaker 3: with him. He did a great job and did, uh, Again,
9:40
Speaker 3: it just comes down to getting to know your players
9:44
Speaker 3: over time, but also you certainly believe in the skills.
9:49
Speaker 4: Forrest, you brought up Brandon Young earlier, and Steve, Brad,
9:54
Speaker 4: and I, we talked so much about it. It was
9:57
Speaker 4: a frustrating year, but there were so many really good
10:00
Speaker 4: stories from this Orioles team, maybe none better than Brandon Young,
10:04
Speaker 4: who ended up being their most consistent starter. He didn't
10:07
Speaker 4: break spring training with the club. If injuries didn't happen,
10:12
Speaker 4: who knows what kind of runway he would have ended
10:14
Speaker 4: up having, but When did you think that this could
10:17
Speaker 4: be a special season for Brandon Young and just seeing
10:20
Speaker 4: that four-seamer develop into a weapon and him altering that
10:25
Speaker 4: grip on the splitter? When did you think, oh, wow,
10:28
Speaker 4: this could be a pretty special season for him?
10:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, he just kept doing it. And week over week, again,
10:37
Speaker 3: you know B.Y. over time in the organization and nobody.
10:43
Speaker 3: It's hard to find a guy more steady and thoughtful
10:45
Speaker 3: with his, his process. And he's, he's got the right
10:50
Speaker 3: stuff mentally. And ultimately he got to, I'll never forget
10:55
Speaker 3: the outing in Durham right before he, he came up
10:58
Speaker 3: and he pitched extremely well and it was putting everything
11:02
Speaker 3: exactly where he wanted. And I remember in that moment
11:05
Speaker 3: thinking this, if this guy gets the opportunity soon, he
11:08
Speaker 3: may never give it back. And more or less that's,
11:12
Speaker 3: what ended up happening. And each level of his process
11:17
Speaker 3: took a step forward as he, he just.
11:19
Speaker 2: Took more and more ownership, especially in, in the weight
11:23
Speaker 2: room and training.
11:24
Speaker 3: And you really got to see the fruits of that
11:27
Speaker 3: labor as he was able to hold up through a
11:29
Speaker 3: full season and throw some of.
11:31
Speaker 2: His best velocity down the stretch that that wasn't an accident.
11:35
Speaker 2: That was a testament to him.
11:37
Speaker 3: We've certainly believed in the talent, the command and, When
11:41
Speaker 3: everything started to really come together, you knew BYU was
11:45
Speaker 3: going to hold on to it.
11:47
Speaker 1: We're going to get into, in a few minutes, some
11:49
Speaker 1: of the individual names on the Oriole farm with Forrest.
11:52
Speaker 1: And I know fans who follow rankings, which is a
11:55
Speaker 1: lot of you, clearly noted the Oriole top 30 right
11:59
Speaker 1: now with Baseball America. Three of the top four are pitchers.
12:02
Speaker 1: Five of the top eight. Nine of the top 14
12:06
Speaker 1: are pitchers. And the system got so bad. much better
12:10
Speaker 1: over the year, Forrest, in that when Trey Gibson made
12:13
Speaker 1: his Major League debut in May, he was the number
12:16
Speaker 1: one ranked Oriole prospect, position player and pitcher, number one.
12:20
Speaker 1: When he came back and pitched in September, he was
12:23
Speaker 1: the ninth highest rated pitcher. He has thrown well this year,
12:28
Speaker 1: but he was falling behind others because others did so well,
12:31
Speaker 1: and he acquired, obviously, Ionson and some guys at the deadline.
12:35
Speaker 1: As you ended the year, what was it like to
12:37
Speaker 1: be working with so many good prospects. Is this the
12:42
Speaker 1: best you've seen it? How exciting was it for the staff?
12:46
Speaker 2: Incredibly exciting.
12:47
Speaker 3: Every night at every level, you're thrilled to watch the
12:52
Speaker 3: guy go to work and either show you what you
12:57
Speaker 3: anticipate is going to be a steady version of himself
13:00
Speaker 3: based on the process they developed with their coaches in
13:04
Speaker 3: between weeks and weeks.
13:07
Speaker 2: Also, some of these.
13:08
Speaker 3: Guys really finding themselves anchoring to that, and they ran
13:14
Speaker 3: with it. It was a ton of fun to see
13:16
Speaker 3: their development. It's one of those things where competing against
13:20
Speaker 3: your peers in a rotation, each of them want to
13:23
Speaker 3: be better than the guy right next to them. And
13:25
Speaker 3: when the group can start to level itself up against
13:28
Speaker 3: each other and a very healthy competition, and you also
13:33
Speaker 3: see somebody in front of you go do it and
13:36
Speaker 3: do the job well. at the major league level. And
13:40
Speaker 3: I know for a lot of them, they think, well,
13:41
Speaker 3: if he can do it, I can do it. And
13:43
Speaker 3: a lot of them do have the skills to ultimately
13:46
Speaker 3: make it happen. So they are all putting good things
13:51
Speaker 3: out into the environment and taking little things from each other.
13:54
Speaker 3: And we've had some good continuity in, in the pitching
13:58
Speaker 3: development group. And we've also had some nice additions that
14:02
Speaker 3: have helped push our philosophy, push our group forward. And
14:05
Speaker 3: we are never done learning because we're here to just
14:08
Speaker 3: serve our players. And ultimately I think they, they felt
14:12
Speaker 3: that we started to really find the right values that
14:17
Speaker 3: a few of them were able to compete inside.
14:18
Speaker 2: Of, and then their skills took it from there.
14:22
Speaker 3: And it was really fun to see them compete this
14:25
Speaker 3: year and the level of consistency for some of them
14:28
Speaker 3: week in week out was truly impressive.
14:33
Speaker 4: Forrest, I would love to know just, the intake process,
14:38
Speaker 4: if you will, during a trade. So for example, uh,
14:41
Speaker 4: Adley Rochman and, and I and Singh comes over and
14:45
Speaker 4: Witherspoon comes over. What is it like when they get
14:49
Speaker 4: in the organization? Like, do you let them just, Hey, adjust.
14:54
Speaker 4: And then you start tweaking and looking at underlying metrics. How,
14:59
Speaker 4: how is the intake when, when a pitcher in this
15:02
Speaker 4: instance is acquired?
15:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, it, It's different for each of them, but the
15:09
Speaker 3: part of it that stays the same is you go
15:11
Speaker 3: try to learn them as fast as possible.
15:13
Speaker 2: And that's learning.
15:15
Speaker 3: Who was in their pitching village with the other, sometimes
15:18
Speaker 3: the other organization, or it's a coach outside of professional baseball.
15:24
Speaker 3: Maybe it's an agent, a college coach, but it's starting
15:27
Speaker 3: to figure out what do these players value?
15:30
Speaker 2: What language do they speak?
15:33
Speaker 3: And being aware of, obviously what we do and our philosophy,
15:39
Speaker 3: but how do we best integrate that or understand where
15:44
Speaker 3: it doesn't align? And that's, that's just okay. And we're
15:48
Speaker 3: here to serve the players. There are tons of different
15:51
Speaker 3: ways to be a great major league pitcher and ultimately
15:56
Speaker 3: learning them up front. You learn what they've done, what
16:01
Speaker 3: they've gone through, how that has led to obviously they're
16:06
Speaker 3: acquired for a reason, but maybe there are aspects of that,
16:09
Speaker 3: that there is still some untapped potential and being able
16:14
Speaker 3: to be the, uh, the change of scenery that's productive
16:19
Speaker 3: for a guy is, is something that it's not a
16:22
Speaker 3: one size fit all approach to, to each player. You
16:26
Speaker 3: have to learn them, learn the people that, they trust,
16:30
Speaker 3: believe in, and ultimately work your way into that sort
16:34
Speaker 3: of partnership with the guy. But learning to play the
16:38
Speaker 3: game with intent and ultimately value the skills, we value
16:43
Speaker 3: the fundamental side of it, and we're working hard to
16:46
Speaker 3: put it all together. So those types of things scale
16:49
Speaker 3: across baseball players typically, and it's just figuring out what
16:54
Speaker 3: language to speak to them.
16:57
Speaker 1: We are talking with the Orioles director of pitching, Forrest Herman,
17:00
Speaker 1: on Birdland Territory today. When we continue in a minute,
17:04
Speaker 1: let's touch on three top 100 pitching prospects as ranked
17:08
Speaker 1: by MLBPipeline.com. We'll ask them about Anthony Ionson, Joseph Jarwa,
17:13
Speaker 1: and Caden Hunter next on the show.
17:18
Speaker 5: Hey, at FK and the Foul Territory Network, we have
17:21
Speaker 5: so many shows, so many schedules, so many hosts. It
17:24
Speaker 5: is really hard to stay organized. That's why there's Housecall Pro.
17:28
Speaker 5: If you work in the HVAC, if you work in plumbing,
17:30
Speaker 5: if you work in construction, you work with your hands,
17:33
Speaker 5: they'll organize your schedule. They'll make your bill paying easy.
17:36
Speaker 5: It's all right there in Housecall Pro.
17:38
Speaker 6: Yeah, AJ, you can have a plumbing business, electrical, HVAC.
17:42
Speaker 6: Housecall Pro will help keep you organized. Estimates, invoices, the
17:46
Speaker 6: next lead. So you can do the job, focus on
17:48
Speaker 6: the task at hand, but still keep the business cranking.
17:50
Speaker 6: And on average, pros using Housecall Pro save more than
17:53
Speaker 6: eight hours per week. On average, pros grow the monthly
17:56
Speaker 6: revenue they generate through Housecall Pro by more than 35%
17:58
Speaker 6: in their first year. And Housecall Pro is already trusted
18:02
Speaker 6: by over 200,000 pros. Ready to save time and win
18:04
Speaker 6: more jobs for a limited time only? FT listeners get 50%
18:08
Speaker 6: off base plans for their first three months when you
18:09
Speaker 6: head to housecallpro.com slash foul. That's housecallpro.com slash foul for 50% off.
18:15
Speaker 6: After you sign up, they'll ask you where you heard
18:16
Speaker 6: about them. Please support our show and let them know
18:18
Speaker 6: we sent you.
18:21
Speaker 1: So far, it's Anthony Ionson in the Adley Rutschman trade.
18:25
Speaker 1: And I interviewed him late in the year at Prince
18:28
Speaker 1: George's Stadium. I was so impressed with this young man. intelligent, articulate, driven, focused.
18:33
Speaker 1: It's always there. And I'm like, I can see why
18:35
Speaker 1: that talent works because he's got all these other elements too.
18:40
Speaker 1: Obviously the staff was impressed by him. Baseball America, number 34,
18:44
Speaker 1: MLB pipeline, number 45, Eastern league pitcher of the year.
18:48
Speaker 1: Some scouts think he can move fast next year. And
18:52
Speaker 1: so what about this? This guy is so special.
18:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, I, I think the person as you hit on
18:58
Speaker 3: there is for first and foremost, that's a, that's a
19:02
Speaker 3: guy who can in so many ways show up and
19:07
Speaker 3: give the team what it, what it needs that day. And,
19:10
Speaker 3: you know, he organizes his, his game around what, what's
19:13
Speaker 3: the task at hand, what's the game calling for and
19:17
Speaker 3: incredible talent. It's a really unique profile of pitches. He
19:22
Speaker 3: commands them extremely well and, and, it's still a lot
19:27
Speaker 3: of untapped potential in terms of what he can do physically,
19:31
Speaker 3: what he's able to do really just with three primary pitches.
19:36
Speaker 3: And at times a splitter, it's a really impressive arsenal
19:41
Speaker 3: and a more impressive competitor that, that can really put
19:44
Speaker 3: it together night in night out, whether it's a, it
19:48
Speaker 3: doesn't matter what type of lineup, um what sort of
19:51
Speaker 3: course conditions he's dealing with that day uh how's the
19:54
Speaker 3: stomach feel those things don't matter to him he competes.
19:57
Speaker 1: Impressive guy won a national championship at lsu and is
20:02
Speaker 1: now top 100 pitching prospect for the orioles joseph gerwar
20:05
Speaker 1: was your minor league pitcher of the year won the
20:09
Speaker 1: jim palmer award highest drafted pitcher under Mike Elias' front office,
20:15
Speaker 1: number 58 out of Michigan State. Tell us a little
20:18
Speaker 1: bit about Joseph Jerwa.
20:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, Joe, that is.
20:23
Speaker 3: One of the most steady competitors, one of the most
20:27
Speaker 3: steady people in his process week.
20:29
Speaker 2: In, week out.
20:30
Speaker 3: It was something we noticed right away as we got
20:36
Speaker 3: to working with him, how just deliberate he is and
20:41
Speaker 3: how intentional and how focused he can become on, you know,
20:44
Speaker 3: what does he need to get to the next level?
20:47
Speaker 2: What does he need to get to the next step?
20:48
Speaker 3: So he's always had the great fastball changeup combination going
20:53
Speaker 3: back to Michigan state.
20:54
Speaker 2: He's an excellent competitor in a lot of different sports.
20:58
Speaker 2: I'd love to tell you about his golf game, maybe
21:00
Speaker 2: some high school football.
21:03
Speaker 3: Excellent athlete for his size, but then, you know, he
21:08
Speaker 3: really needed to work on some breaking balls this year
21:10
Speaker 3: and he went out and did that.
21:12
Speaker 2: And one of the best parts of how he did
21:15
Speaker 2: it is he worked it inside of his game.
21:18
Speaker 3: And I think you were able to see that with
21:19
Speaker 3: how he went out and posted week over week, chewed
21:22
Speaker 3: up innings. You know, at times it was like, wow,
21:27
Speaker 3: you're in, you're in the fifth inning and it's like,
21:29
Speaker 3: you've barely thrown any pitches.
21:30
Speaker 2: And that's great. That is exactly what, you know, starting
21:34
Speaker 2: pitchers should be doing. And, especially in their development process.
21:38
Speaker 3: So I think that he, you know, exemplifies a lot
21:42
Speaker 3: of what you would want to see in the person
21:46
Speaker 3: in terms of a, and again, this is where iron
21:49
Speaker 3: sharpens iron. You start to put Ionson, Gerwa, and a
21:54
Speaker 3: bunch of these other guys in the same complex and
21:57
Speaker 3: then inside of the same clubhouses. And they're, they're really
22:00
Speaker 3: pushing each other, but he's a, he's an excellent example of,
22:06
Speaker 3: what it should look like week in week out. And
22:09
Speaker 3: I mean, we've, we've just been thrilled to see him
22:12
Speaker 3: hit the crown running how he has and really, really
22:16
Speaker 3: excited for the future.
22:17
Speaker 1: Oh, he loves his golf. He's told me about that.
22:21
Speaker 1: This is a kid who can shoot par golf. I mean, he's, he,
22:24
Speaker 1: he's pretty darn good at golf too. So these three
22:27
Speaker 1: guys were talking about forest. This to me blows me
22:30
Speaker 1: away among all minor league pitchers this year, who threw
22:33
Speaker 1: 80 innings or more. This is 30 organizations. The top
22:37
Speaker 1: five ERAs, three are from the Baltimore Orioles. Ionson, who
22:42
Speaker 1: we touched on, second, 154. Caden Hunter, we're about to
22:46
Speaker 1: talk about, fourth at 201. And Joseph Jerwa, 227. That's
22:51
Speaker 1: all organizations. Three, 60% of the top five ERAs in
22:55
Speaker 1: baseball this year were with the Orioles. So that's an
22:58
Speaker 1: impressive stat. So tell us about Caden Hunter. Sixth round
23:02
Speaker 1: draft pick out of USC. gained some velocity on the
23:05
Speaker 1: Orioles watch and he had a big year.
23:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, no question.
23:09
Speaker 3: He he's covered so much ground the past few years.
23:12
Speaker 3: And that was something we, we saw him taking those
23:15
Speaker 3: leaps at USC and we were so excited to end
23:19
Speaker 3: up with them in the draft and to be able
23:22
Speaker 3: to really give them the opportunity to get to work and,
23:25
Speaker 3: and keep taking those jumps. And he, he certainly did. He,
23:29
Speaker 3: He's got a great fastball, learning to command it. It's
23:32
Speaker 3: an excellent changeup with unbelievable change of speeds, nice parachute there.
23:39
Speaker 3: Similar to Joe, he's really worked on the breaking balls
23:42
Speaker 3: this year.
23:43
Speaker 2: While the game hasn't necessarily.
23:44
Speaker 3: Pushed him to do that, he's able to really beat
23:49
Speaker 3: dudes with his fastball. Man, he's an impressive guy. He's
23:54
Speaker 3: worked really hard this offseason with this previous off season
23:59
Speaker 3: in a 25, 26 to get the body in a
24:01
Speaker 3: better place and build on some of the things that
24:04
Speaker 3: he was, he was starting to show at USC and
24:08
Speaker 3: you know, he's covered so much ground in his development
24:11
Speaker 3: in the last couple of years. I can't wait to
24:13
Speaker 3: see him keep pushing, but it's been a, a great,
24:16
Speaker 3: great season for him.
24:17
Speaker 2: And really you could lump that into a few years.
24:20
Speaker 2: He's been on a nice trajectory.
24:23
Speaker 4: Forrest, what's so amazing about this abundance of riches that
24:27
Speaker 4: the Orioles have in terms of pitching prospects is some
24:31
Speaker 4: guys kind of get buried a little bit. And Steve
24:33
Speaker 4: mentioned the fact that Gibson was the number one pitching
24:36
Speaker 4: prospect and falls down because all of these guys are
24:39
Speaker 4: having such great years. Someone getting elevated to double A
24:49
Speaker 4: at the end of the year. What did you think
24:51
Speaker 4: of JT Quinn's season?
24:54
Speaker 3: That was another really exciting season. He was the guy
24:59
Speaker 3: who was taking some big steps forward in the Cape
25:01
Speaker 3: not long before the draft. One of his big goals
25:05
Speaker 3: for the year was all the little things that go
25:08
Speaker 3: into how do I stay on the field for a
25:11
Speaker 3: full season and start to really log some innings and
25:14
Speaker 3: go deeper into games. My goodness, you saw the velocity
25:19
Speaker 3: of the command improve throughout the year. His changeup improved
25:23
Speaker 3: throughout the year and On top of all that, the
25:26
Speaker 3: foundation is what we saw taking the biggest steps forward.
25:30
Speaker 2: And it shows up in the box score.
25:33
Speaker 3: Not always the box score, but it was showing up
25:36
Speaker 3: generally week over week with how he was pitching, at
25:38
Speaker 3: least what he could control.
25:40
Speaker 2: And JT did a.
25:44
Speaker 3: Ton of prep this past offseason, a ton of work
25:48
Speaker 3: throughout the season, managing the different ebbs and flows of
25:52
Speaker 3: workload where ultimately... him getting to the end of the season,
25:57
Speaker 3: posting all season was a massive accomplishment. And it was,
26:00
Speaker 3: you know, the skills were no doubt ready to be
26:06
Speaker 3: tested against that level by the end.
26:09
Speaker 1: We're talking with the O's director of pitching, Forrest Herman,
26:12
Speaker 1: a lot of great pitching prospects in Birdland right now.
26:16
Speaker 1: And when we continue, I want to ask Forrest what
26:18
Speaker 1: makes good pitching development. I mean, that's a broad topic.
26:23
Speaker 1: and not one size fits all, obviously. Let's touch on
26:26
Speaker 1: that in a moment.
26:28
Speaker 6: Big Bad Morning Show.
26:29
Speaker 2: Vinny and Haney.
26:30
Speaker 4: Three deep. Live on YouTube Monday through Friday, 6 till 6.
26:35
Speaker 1: Search 1057 The Fan Baltimore and never miss a moment
26:39
Speaker 1: of coverage on the teams you love. So, Forrest, I'm
26:44
Speaker 1: always amazed, surprised how pitching coaches and yourself and your
26:49
Speaker 1: staff can take so much that's out there now Kids
26:52
Speaker 1: got to learn spin rate. What's the best grip for
26:56
Speaker 1: my slider? Will this slider play in the major leagues?
27:00
Speaker 1: How can I gain some velo? What about my nutrition?
27:03
Speaker 1: What should I do between starts? All this falls under
27:06
Speaker 1: pitching development. And here's what makes it more complicated. What
27:10
Speaker 1: works for Joe Sofjerwa may not work for Sebastian Gungora
27:14
Speaker 1: or JT Quinn. So with all that thrown out there,
27:17
Speaker 1: how are the Orioles doing well at pitching development? What
27:20
Speaker 1: are some important things right now?
27:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate that.
27:24
Speaker 3: It's a really challenging thing to go actually develop the individual.
27:29
Speaker 3: And we try to take each guy as one of one.
27:33
Speaker 3: And he's his own dynamic system. He has his own
27:37
Speaker 3: things that make him click in different areas, whether that's
27:40
Speaker 3: the weight room, arm care, how he manages his workload
27:43
Speaker 3: week over week. And then certainly with the, I mean,
27:49
Speaker 3: how he strategizes, how... nastiest pitches are and how consistently
27:53
Speaker 3: he can get to all of those things. It's being
27:56
Speaker 3: as principle based as possible, but trying to meet every
28:00
Speaker 3: individual where they need to be met at and going
28:03
Speaker 3: from there. And ultimately there are some values. There are
28:08
Speaker 3: some things that generally scale and there are different ways
28:14
Speaker 3: to get to the same answer in the big leagues
28:16
Speaker 3: and trying to you know, look at each guy as
28:19
Speaker 3: that individual system or that individual, you know, summation of
28:27
Speaker 3: different skills and quirks and things. And whether that's a
28:31
Speaker 3: guy who runs hot mentally or is super calm out there.
28:35
Speaker 3: And we look at how all of that ultimately impacts
28:39
Speaker 3: the bottom line, which is how's that guy able to
28:42
Speaker 3: go out there and execute what he wants to, when
28:45
Speaker 3: he wants to, and really when the game needs it.
28:50
Speaker 4: Forrest, I wanted to get your thoughts on promotions. And
28:55
Speaker 4: I know that this is probably a case-by-case basis, and
28:59
Speaker 4: some guys are fast-tracked, some guys are slow-played. Something that's
29:03
Speaker 4: been interesting, and I do think this is a very
29:06
Speaker 4: good thing, is minor league baseball is so much more
29:09
Speaker 4: accessible than it was five, ten years from now in
29:11
Speaker 4: terms of the MILB TV app, and you see all
29:14
Speaker 4: these highlights. So fans, they're more educated about these guys
29:18
Speaker 4: than they have been. That brings up, oh, why isn't
29:21
Speaker 4: so-and-so here yet?
29:22
Speaker 2: Why isn't so, you know?
29:24
Speaker 4: So what goes into a promotion? What goes into, okay,
29:28
Speaker 4: maybe this guy could climb two or three levels in
29:32
Speaker 4: one season?
29:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's certainly, do they have the skills to do it?
29:38
Speaker 3: Is the performance good? and is the game telling them
29:41
Speaker 3: they need more of a challenge? That's a part of
29:44
Speaker 3: the puzzle. That's a part of the equation.
29:47
Speaker 2: But then also, we're starting to really make sure that.
29:52
Speaker 3: Are these guys developing the skills, whether it's in the clubhouse,
29:56
Speaker 3: whether it's in their.
29:57
Speaker 2: Day-to-day life that, you know, we, we think in the.
30:00
Speaker 3: Game sometimes is telling them sometimes isn't telling them at
30:03
Speaker 3: that point, they, they truly need to do this for
30:08
Speaker 3: a long time. And ultimately they everybody learns at different rates.
30:12
Speaker 3: And I think you're trying to manage the success, manage
30:18
Speaker 3: the failure, all of that with each guy based on,
30:21
Speaker 3: where he's at, what he's going through.
30:23
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, the skills are going
30:27
Speaker 2: to tell you, but we have to help figure out,
30:30
Speaker 2: is this sustainable?
30:31
Speaker 3: Is this a guy that can go out there under
30:35
Speaker 3: the longest season in the game and the most stressful,
30:40
Speaker 3: pressure-packed games of the entire industry and go do this
30:45
Speaker 3: job over and over again?
30:46
Speaker 2: It's a very complex thing.
30:51
Speaker 3: It's not just skills, but it's figuring out each of
30:54
Speaker 3: these individual guys and the coaches, the coordinators and everybody.
30:58
Speaker 3: It's a group effort on managers figuring out who's ultimately ready.
31:04
Speaker 3: But sometimes one thing will look more ready than the other.
31:07
Speaker 3: And other times the opportunity will present itself and somebody
31:12
Speaker 3: steps up and they just show they're ready for it.
31:15
Speaker 3: And it's not a, It's not a perfect science, but
31:20
Speaker 3: it's a lot of trying to learn your people and
31:24
Speaker 3: then learn, you know, is that promotion actually going to
31:27
Speaker 3: be what hopefully catapults them to find the next gear
31:31
Speaker 3: in their development or the next gear.
31:33
Speaker 2: In their game?
31:35
Speaker 3: Or are they going to benefit more from going and
31:38
Speaker 3: spending an off season figuring out what do I need
31:42
Speaker 3: to do? How do I need to structure my life
31:46
Speaker 3: to be able to be more consistent next season in
31:50
Speaker 3: different aspects. It's a very open-ended answer, but you know,
31:54
Speaker 3: ultimately everybody's different and we're trying to make sure when
31:58
Speaker 3: they do get there, they have the right combination of skills.
32:02
Speaker 2: On the field, but then the.
32:05
Speaker 3: Skills upstairs, because there's a war of attrition when you get,
32:08
Speaker 3: it's incredibly difficult to.
32:11
Speaker 2: Break into the league. And, you know, we're really proud
32:14
Speaker 2: of BY proud of Trey Gibson.
32:16
Speaker 3: And, DeLeon handled it well on the front end, but
32:20
Speaker 3: we're doing our best as an organization to figure out
32:23
Speaker 3: that right combo so that we can obviously have more
32:26
Speaker 3: of those type of intros to the league, which then
32:29
Speaker 3: can lead to more success.
32:31
Speaker 2: Down the line.
32:34
Speaker 1: Fans of the Orioles know I love to talk prospects
32:37
Speaker 1: and I love to talk pitching prospects. And this year
32:40
Speaker 1: I love to talk to pitching prospects as I got
32:43
Speaker 1: to meet the guys behind the great stats. And then
32:46
Speaker 1: you talk to Forrest, you talk to Jordy Henry, you
32:49
Speaker 1: talk to Jeremy Haum and so many others in the
32:52
Speaker 1: O's pitching program. I named just a couple there. And
32:55
Speaker 1: you see what's going on. You get to see the work,
32:58
Speaker 1: meet the people, and you feel good about the future.
33:01
Speaker 1: And then you read these rankings and you understand how
33:04
Speaker 1: they came to be. Forrest, what a delightful half hour.
33:07
Speaker 1: I could talk pitching with you for hours, but you've
33:10
Speaker 1: got other things to do. And you were so nice.
33:13
Speaker 1: You took time today to talk to us. I think
33:14
Speaker 1: those fans learned a lot more about pitching on the farm,
33:18
Speaker 1: pitching development and teams that can develop young pitching right now.
33:22
Speaker 1: We'll be going places. Cause that's about the most coveted
33:25
Speaker 1: commodity in the game. So Forrest, enjoy your week. And
33:28
Speaker 1: thanks so much for taking time for us on the
33:30
Speaker 1: show today.
33:32
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me guys. Appreciate it.
33:35
Speaker 1: Forrest Harmon with us today, the O's director of pitching and, uh,
33:40
Speaker 1: I enjoyed that show. Hope you Ditto's fans will talk
33:43
Speaker 1: to you again soon in a couple days with another
33:45
Speaker 1: edition of Birdland Territory.
33:49
Speaker 2: If you made it this far, you'll love this next video.
33:51
Speaker 2: Check it out right here.
33:52
Speaker 4: And make sure you subscribe to Birdland Territory for more
33:55
Speaker 4: Orioles coverage like this multiple times a week.