Latest / Every Church Flourishing by the Great Commission Association / Episode 14: Backstage is the Main Stage! What is the Apocrypha and Should Christians Read it? Abiding in Christ vs. Public Ministry + Irn Bru Scottish Soda Review. With Dr. Mike Stewart, Dr. Chris Smith and J.C. Thompson

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Episode 14: Backstage is the Main Stage! What is the Apocrypha and Should Christians Read it? Abiding in Christ vs. Public Ministry + Irn Bru Scottish Soda Review. With Dr. Mike Stewart, Dr. Chris Smith and J.C. Thompson · Every Church Flourishing by the Great Commission Association

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Speaker0: Do either of you.
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Speaker3: Guys have a parting shot for us, a last word as we exit?
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Speaker2: Backstage is the main stage.
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Speaker0: God. Join hosts, Pastor Chris Cole and Dr.
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Speaker0: Chase Thompson from the Great Commission Association, led by Dr.
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Speaker0: Mike Stewart, as they explore the frontiers of ministry and aim for the goal
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Speaker0: of making every church flourish.
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Speaker3: Hello, everybody, and welcome into episode number 15 of the Every Church Flourishing
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Speaker3: podcast by the Great Commission Association of California. We've got a great
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Speaker3: podcast for you today with some fascinating topics and guests and guest reviewers.
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Speaker3: We've got a review of a Scottish soda called Iron Brew, which is supposedly
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Speaker3: made with steel girders. And a great guest reviewer there.
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Speaker3: Also, a listener question from Robin F., who asks about the Apocrypha,
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Speaker3: those mysterious books that are in some Bibles and absent from others,
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Speaker3: and are the centerpiece for tons of conspiracy theories about the Church and the Bible.
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Speaker3: What is the Apocrypha? Should you be reading it? Why is it no longer in most
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Speaker3: Protestant Bibles? The truth is out there.
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Speaker3: Today we begin a multi-part series on the Apocrypha.
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Speaker3: By the way, what giant of the Reformation quoted a book from the Apocrypha and
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Speaker3: called the speaker and the namesake of that book a prophet? Well,
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Speaker3: we're going to find out today.
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Speaker3: Before that though, our main interview is with Dr. Chris Smith of the Great
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Speaker3: Commission Association, a former missionary to Spain and the current Mission
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Speaker3: Consultant with the GCA and President of the Great Commission Training Institution,
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Speaker3: which is an online training school that is very affordable for pastors and church leaders.
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Speaker3: And you can find out more on the GCTI at our website, gcasbc.org.
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Speaker3: That's gcasbc.org. Now, Dr.
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Speaker3: Mike Stewart, our co-host today, is the Senior Director of California's Great
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Speaker3: Commission Association, and he and I will talk to
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Speaker2: Dr.
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Speaker3: Chris Smith about front stage versus backstage ministry and also his favorite
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Speaker3: food from Spain and maybe most important of all, the difference between Spanish
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Speaker3: tortillas and Mexican tortillas.
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Speaker3: Our main focus today is on the roots that nobody sees versus the flower that
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Speaker3: draws attention, the front stage versus the backstage to continue the metaphor.
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Speaker3: If the flower isn't healthy or it browns or it falls off, as long as the roots
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Speaker3: are healthy, the plant will eventually be healthy again and that flower will grow again.
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Speaker3: But some flowers persist for a time without any roots whatsoever.
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Speaker3: They can look healthy for a time in a vase, but their life is limited because
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Speaker3: their roots for accessing living water are gone.
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Speaker3: Similarly, there are times in ministry where leaders and pastors can have a
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Speaker3: healthy-looking front stage ministry or flower of ministry, but the back stage
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Speaker3: or the roots of the ministry are sick.
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Speaker3: And in that case, it's inevitable that a collapse will happen at some point.
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Speaker3: Most leaders pay more attention to the front stage of ministry,
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Speaker3: that visible part of their ministry, the flower, so to speak.
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Speaker3: But we really should pay far greater attention to our roots,
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Speaker3: our abiding in the vine of Jesus, the things we do in the backstage,
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Speaker3: our reading of scripture, our prayer life, our devotional life.
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Speaker3: Now, a couple of upcoming episodes I want to tell you about.
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Speaker3: We've got a great review already recorded with Dr.
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Speaker3: Kristen Ferguson, the Vice President of Gateway Seminary, and on that interview,
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Speaker3: we talked to her about Christians and artificial intelligence,
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Speaker3: Church leader education, online education, women in ministry,
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Speaker3: and being a pastor's wife.
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Speaker3: Along those same lines, we're going to be interviewing Dr.
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Speaker3: Kathy Smith this week on Women in Ministry and Missions and Missional Complementarianism,
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Speaker3: as well as Pastor Humberto Hernandez and many other interesting guests coming up.
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Speaker3: So stay tuned. And now let's go to the interview where Dr.
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Speaker3: Mike Stewart and I discuss front stage versus backstage ministry with Dr. Chris Smith.
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Speaker3: So today we have the privilege of being joined by Dr.
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Speaker3: Chris Smith, who is with the Great Commission Association and has multiple roles there.
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Speaker3: He leads the training initiative for pastors and church leaders.
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Speaker3: Dr. Chris Smith, tell us a little bit about yourself and all of the multifaceted
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Speaker3: things you do with the Great Commission Association in California.
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Speaker1: I first came about eight years ago as a ministry director and connecting with
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Speaker1: our South Area churches, which is basically San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara.
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Speaker1: And I still do that. And it's that the role that I have now is more evolved
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Speaker1: to encompass many different things.
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Speaker1: And my official title is Mission Strategist. So coming along churches,
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Speaker1: helping them in many different ways.
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Speaker1: GCA, we do mission. We have unreached people groups that we are reaching.
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Speaker1: We do church planning. We do replanning.
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Speaker1: We evangelism, discipleship, leadership development.
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Speaker1: So, there are many different things that we do in coming alongside churches,
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Speaker1: and also part of that is being a pastor to pastors and a friend to pastors and
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Speaker1: helping and throw in that.
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Speaker1: Now I'm doing youth rallies as well, and so probably it'd be quicker to talk
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Speaker1: about what I'm not doing than what I am doing.
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Speaker1: But, no, it's great. I really enjoy it. I love it because you don't just sit
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Speaker1: around bored, right? Well, what am I going to do today?
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Speaker1: So there's always opportunity to be missional, to be encouraging,
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Speaker1: and to just be there with our churches and do ministry together.
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Speaker1: And it's a joy. It really is.
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Speaker2: Chris, before I jump in with my question, I would say that's one of the great
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Speaker2: blessings of being in associational ministry as opposed to, I'd say,
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Speaker2: larger scale ministries, a national level. and they do important work,
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Speaker2: but at the associational level, you actually get to know people.
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Speaker2: You actually, and over time, you've been here eight years.
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Speaker2: So you've been walking with brothers there and sisters in our churches for eight
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Speaker2: years. So you know when it's looking good and when something's a little bit off.
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Speaker2: There's a front stage of ministry when you're up front, and then there's the
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Speaker2: backstage, the back part of our ministry.
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Speaker2: So from your experience, the front stage of the public facing,
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Speaker2: this is what I look like. And then the backstage, this is what I look like when no one's looking.
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Speaker2: What are some things there you can tell pastors or from your experience that
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Speaker2: they need to be aware of those two dimensions and how to make sure they stay in balance?
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Speaker1: Yeah, I think one thing that comes to mind is John 15, just the importance of abiding in Christ.
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Speaker1: I was reading a book recently, and it talked about the three things in John
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Speaker1: 15. Jesus, abide in me, when he says in verse 5, I am the vine,
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Speaker1: you are the branches. If you remain in me, then you are bare much fruit.
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Speaker1: Apart from me, you can do nothing.
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Speaker1: And then also the community, loving one another, where Jesus is saying,
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Speaker1: by this, all people will know that you are my disciples if you have love for one another.
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Speaker1: And then the last thing, the last part of John 15 is the mission.
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Speaker1: Here's our witness to the world around us. Here's the, specifically,
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Speaker1: here's the challenge that you will face in mission, that the lost will hate
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Speaker1: you, they will hate the Father, they will hate Jesus.
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Speaker1: But you were chosen to testify. And so as we think about the front stage and
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Speaker1: the backstage of ministry in that order, in the book I was reading,
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Speaker1: it says the importance of the order, Jesus, community, and mission.
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Speaker1: So if we don't start with Jesus in our own ministry, then we're not going to
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Speaker1: be leading from the overflow.
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Speaker1: We're going to be really relying on past experience or education or knowledge
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Speaker1: and not from truly knowing God.
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Speaker1: Just going beyond knowing about God to really knowing Him personally and let
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Speaker1: that sustain us, drive us, fuel us.
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Speaker1: And I think that is the key because it is very easy to get overwhelmed with
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Speaker1: the many things that you have to do on the front stage and neglect the backstage of ministry.
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Speaker3: Amen to that. What book was that you were reading, Dr. Chris?
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Speaker1: Yeah, it's a book by Ray Ortlund and Sam Albury.
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Speaker1: It's called You're Not Crazy, Gospel Sanity for Weary Christians.
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Speaker1: And they talk about cultivating a gospel culture within the church.
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Speaker1: And the importance of that is within our own lives as well.
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Speaker1: And so within the church, but specifically within our own family and our own lives.
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Speaker3: Well, how would you review that book? How many Spurgeons out of five would you give it?
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Speaker1: Yeah, I mean, I really liked it. I was five. And so in my role,
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Speaker1: I get to drive around a lot.
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Speaker1: And so a lot of times I'll...
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Speaker1: I'll put on a book and listen to a book. And that was one of the ones that I was listening to.
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Speaker1: And that really struck me, you know, just the genuineness and also the importance
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Speaker1: of the priorities, right, of Jesus, community and mission.
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Speaker1: Because one of the things that he says is that if we neglect,
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Speaker1: if we kind of skip, we just go to mission and we neglect Jesus and we don't
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Speaker1: have community, then the mission is not going to be real.
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Speaker1: And it's people aren't going to believe the mission because if we're not truly
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Speaker1: loving each other, then, you know, the world's going to say, well, they're fake.
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Speaker1: And so just that important that those three and that order is really important.
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Speaker2: What would you say is harder for a pastor, the front stage ministry or the back stage ministry?
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Speaker1: Many times, I mean, it would depend on the pastor, right? And so sometimes there
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Speaker1: are very charismatic pastors who they thrive on the front state.
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Speaker1: I mean, they are the ones that can get the kind of the visionary leader that
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Speaker1: gets everybody going. So that would definitely be easier for them where the
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Speaker1: backstage might be more difficult.
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Speaker1: But I think for all of us, you know, we just have to work really hard in the backstage.
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Speaker1: We have to, because our job is to know the scriptures, we can go to the scriptures
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Speaker1: just to study so that we can teach and not for us. This is for me.
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Speaker1: And, you know, it might turn into a teaching. It might turn into a preaching, a sermon.
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Speaker1: But I'm doing this for me. This is in my relationship. Because before we were
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Speaker1: called to ministry, it was our relationship with God.
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Speaker1: And so that really has to be the focus for sure.
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Speaker3: I think that's a great question, Dr. Stewart. I will say
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Speaker3: When I started out in ministry, I was an extrovert, and at some point I flipped to an introvert,
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Speaker0: And so I'm really kind of an ambivert.
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Speaker3: But for my personality style over the vast majority of time in ministry, I have ADHD.
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Speaker3: Stillness is hard for me. Sitting still, all of that. I do not do it very well.
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Speaker3: But a few years ago, I think it was maybe right around the time of COVID,
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Speaker3: I, by the grace of God somehow developed the habit of walking and praying more
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Speaker3: and walking and listening to the scripture more.
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Speaker0: And if the answer to your question you asked to Dr.
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Speaker3: Stewart for me is backstage of ministry was always harder.
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Speaker3: And that's just because I've struggled so much to sit still.
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Speaker3: Also probably because I sinfully trust myself to get it done more than I should. As Dr.
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Speaker0: Chris mentioned, John 15.
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Speaker3: It's pretty much the theme verse of this podcast. The clear teaching of Jesus
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Speaker3: is apart from me, you can do nothing.
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Speaker3: So if you're a pastor and you're listening to this and you're like,
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Speaker0: You know, I'm not great at.
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Speaker3: The backstage of ministry, that is for all of us, it's a fatality.
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Speaker3: It's a condition that will always disruption.
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Speaker3: We have to invest in that part of it.
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Speaker2: Now, for me, I always liked the front stage because I knew when it was going
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Speaker2: to happen. It was every Sunday.
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Speaker2: And so I could get ready for that. But the backstage was hidden from people
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Speaker2: And it was hidden from me as far as when was I going to get that done?
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Speaker2: And everything else got in the way of that.
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Speaker2: I was at a retreat a couple weeks ago, and it was really calling pastors back
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Speaker2: to a sense of relying on the presence of God.
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Speaker2: There were two truths, and I think they'd be great right here for a pastor to
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Speaker2: hear them, is that there are two great truths about the presence of God.
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Speaker2: And one is, the first truth is, is that God desires a daily,
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Speaker2: unbroken, personal relationship with us, but we must cooperate.
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Speaker2: He desires every unbroken. The second is, our greatest need is God's presence,
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Speaker2: and God's great desire is our presence. And so I have to show up in the garden
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Speaker2: and be ready for the cool of the day.
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Speaker2: And so I began praying in my life about three years ago. I felt like I'm not,
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Speaker2: I am doing things on the outside, but on the inside, I'm not where I need to be with God.
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Speaker2: And about three years ago, I just began praying for a desire,
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Speaker2: a greater desire to spend more time with God, because that will never come from my flesh.
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Speaker2: It has to come from the Holy Spirit working in me and moving me to there.
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Speaker2: And God will answer, hear that prayer. That delights God. But I hadn't prayed that.
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Speaker2: You know, move me to desire being your presence more. And so,
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Speaker2: and I will just tell pastors listening, it is the richer part of ministry.
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Speaker1: It is the
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Speaker2: Richer part of ministry. It's the part of ministry that you will not be discouraged in.
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Speaker2: God's not a, he's not really, doesn't really need to use a lot of harsh words
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Speaker2: or discouragement for us.
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Speaker2: The Holy Spirit is working in us all the time.
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Speaker2: But that backstage is a beautiful place, and many times it's really, really underbuilt.
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Speaker2: And that's, you know, for us in ministry, we have a great position to be able
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Speaker2: to develop that. That's my story.
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Speaker1: I would add to that specifically our private prayer life.
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Speaker1: You know, what is our private prayer life, and how are we drawing close to God,
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Speaker1: and what does that look like on a day-to-day basis and not out of obligation,
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Speaker1: but out of seeking Him, seeking dependence on Him,
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Speaker1: being renewed by Him each and every day and it be real.
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Speaker1: So I think that continual abiding, because no one sees that,
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Speaker1: no one's going to see our private prayer life.
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Speaker1: But if I've seen in my own life, when my prayer life is on point,
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Speaker1: then when I go to do a teaching or when the front stay, It's another level, right?
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Speaker1: It's just another level that you're able to get to because you are depending
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Speaker1: on God and not just depending on God.
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Speaker1: Yourself.
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Speaker0: Amen to that.
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Speaker3: So something you said a few minutes ago, Dr. Chris, was about maybe the dangers
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Speaker3: of mixing your ministry preparation with your devotional life.
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Speaker3: Years ago, long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I had a pastor who
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Speaker3: was one of the best Bible teachers I've ever sat under.
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Speaker3: And he was just hugely influential in my life with his preaching.
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Speaker3: One time I found myself in his office and I asked him about his Bible study, his quiet time.
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Speaker3: And his answer kind of stuck out to me as strange.
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Speaker3: I said, I think I just said something simple like, what are you studying in the Bible here lately?
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Speaker3: And he said, well, my devotional time is all about getting ready to preach on Sunday morning.
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Speaker3: Even as a young guy that's kind of clueless, I was like, that's weird.
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Speaker3: I wonder if that's the way it is for most pastors.
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Speaker3: So I guess I'll ask you guys the question. Do you see a danger in that practice?
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Speaker3: And follow up, how do you recognize when ministry and preparation have become
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Speaker3: substitutes in a sense for devotion, abiding, private prayer, et cetera?
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Speaker2: Yeah, I think that is, that's not unusual because I think
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Speaker2: When I even ask people about, you know, their prayer life, tell me about their
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Speaker2: prayer life, and people on staff or whatever, they will tell me,
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Speaker2: well, I pray when I drive to work.
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Speaker2: Well, there's not a lot of people in the New Testament driving to work while they're praying.
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Speaker2: But I call that distracted prayer. I said, it's wonderful you want to have your
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Speaker2: mind set on God, and that's good. But it's not deep prayer.
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Speaker2: Deep prayer is you go into the room, you close the door, and you're trying to
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Speaker2: get into the presence of God. But I think for the pastor, studying God's word
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Speaker2: and asking him for a message for God's people, that's exciting.
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Speaker2: And it wells up in you. And, you know, that's what you think.
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Speaker2: You're like Chris said, you want to teach. You want to overflow.
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Speaker2: But I would say do things before the Lord just to know him.
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Speaker2: That's what Chris said, just to know him better. The Holy Spirit inspired the
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Speaker2: scripture and the Holy Spirit lives within us.
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Speaker2: And Jesus said the Holy Spirit would teach us all things that relate to faith.
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Speaker2: So we've got a pretty great resource in God's Word just to read it and be amazed
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Speaker2: at the God who is and was and is to come.
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Speaker2: So I would just tell pastor, don't fall into that trap.
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Speaker2: There's enough of time and there's enough of God for him to do a personal work
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Speaker2: inside of you and then do a preaching work inside of you for the congregation.
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Speaker2: And for me, they both feed each other.
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Speaker3: Absolutely, yes.
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Speaker2: They do.
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Speaker1: They do. They feed each other. And there's going to be crossover.
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Speaker1: There should be crossover. There has to be crossover.
17:57
Speaker1: But I would say, so your question is, you know, if it's only to,
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Speaker1: if you're only preparing and that's your, that's it, that's all you have,
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Speaker1: I don't think that's enough.
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Speaker1: I mean, I think that, you know, it's going to be, you're going to fall short.
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Speaker1: But of course, as we are preparing, God is working on us, right?
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Speaker1: The best messages that we preach.
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Speaker1: And teach are the ones that he's working in on us.
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Speaker1: And I was listening to, I think it was a podcast by John Piper,
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Speaker1: and he was talking about, kind of similar to this question, he said that one
18:31
Speaker1: of the things that he does is he will read someone else to get his mind and
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Speaker1: his heart right before he goes to the scripture.
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Speaker1: And I thought that was very interesting, like he'll read a book or just a portion
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Speaker1: of it, just to get him thinking in a different direction.
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Speaker1: Someone who he respects and admires and knows, has thought deeply about God.
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Speaker1: And so I've been doing that and it's been helpful in that just to listen to
18:59
Speaker1: or hear from respected leaders, pastors, and let that kind of direct you
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Speaker2: For pastors and this topic of your personal ministry, your backstage ministry of the Lord.
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Speaker2: This is a place where I think you need to tell the congregation how to do this.
19:15
Speaker2: You can't assume that new believers or believers who are coming from no church
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Speaker2: life, you have to really tell them, this is how I read God's Word.
19:23
Speaker2: I think the challenge with Chase, the story of your pastor, his people could
19:28
Speaker2: not follow his example because they're not studying for a sermon.
19:31
Speaker2: So how do I read the Bible, pastor, tell me how you do it. And Paul said, follow my example.
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Speaker2: Well, you have to tell them. And if you're not proud of what you're going to
19:40
Speaker2: tell them, that could be a clue that you might need to grow in that area.
19:43
Speaker2: But tell them, here's how I read the Bible. Here's where I put it into my life.
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Speaker2: Lay that out. Tell them how you pray, how you pray for them,
19:50
Speaker2: how you pray for your family. When do you do that?
19:53
Speaker2: Everything you can lay out for them that's more practical for them because the
19:57
Speaker2: spiritual world for them is not clear.
19:59
Speaker2: And so pastors not only should make it clear in doctrine, but clear in practice.
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Speaker2: Here's what I do. We're not perfect. This is what fits me, but I encourage it.
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Speaker2: And if you don't have a plan, then my plan's better than your no plan.
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Speaker2: But, you know, especially just, and introduce them to resources that they can
20:15
Speaker2: do because social media now, they can get an app for everything,
20:19
Speaker2: but they don't know which one.
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Speaker2: So you can really help them by just being clear with them to build the backstage of their own life.
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Speaker3: I completely agree with that. There's going to be somebody listening to this
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Speaker3: that is a pastor or denominational leader or a leader in a church, a deacon or whatever,
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Speaker0: And they are maybe convicted.
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Speaker3: But looking at their life practice, they realize that they have underprioritized
20:42
Speaker3: the backstage of ministry.
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Speaker3: So what can we say to that leader who's listening to this right now, who's done that?
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Speaker3: What can we say to encourage them and to help them reorder that aspect of their life?
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Speaker1: Yeah, I would say start small and build, you know, start with your private prayer life.
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Speaker1: I think that is going to be the foundation because if you're seeking God,
21:05
Speaker1: you're longing for God, and you're asking, Dr.
21:08
Speaker1: Mike talked about that desire in his own story. He asked for that desire.
21:13
Speaker1: And if you're doing that, then the other things will come.
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Speaker1: And if it might be something practical when you first get up and then when you
21:22
Speaker1: go to bed and something short that you can expand upon. And so I would start
21:27
Speaker1: small and then build from there and make it as much as you can.
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Speaker1: Be authentic, be real. Sometimes you're not going to feel it.
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Speaker1: Sometimes it's just going to feel like a routine. But I think that we continue
21:40
Speaker1: to long for that relationship because it's like any relationship, right?
21:45
Speaker1: If we have a relationship with our spouse or a relationship with a good friend,
21:50
Speaker1: we're going to want to spend time with that person. And so that's the prayers
21:55
Speaker1: that God would change our want to, not just our actions, but our desire.
22:00
Speaker0: Dr. Stewart, any thoughts on that?
22:01
Speaker2: Yes, I would say that, you know, something is substituting for your
22:05
Speaker2: communion with God. Something is. And there might be things in your life that
22:10
Speaker2: need to be dealt with or whatever, but in trying to walk away from things,
22:13
Speaker2: even inside your ministry world, that are not good for you or not good for your family,
22:17
Speaker2: you have to replace that with something that is more powerful than what's hindering
22:23
Speaker2: you. And that is time with God.
22:25
Speaker2: For me, you know, I just seek His kingdom first is kind of a thing that always runs in my mind.
22:30
Speaker2: But for me, when I get up in the morning, I choose not to look at my phone.
22:34
Speaker2: I choose not to look at what's happened into the world, I choose to go and get my Bible.
22:38
Speaker2: For me, I sit down and read my Bible, and I have a notebook beside it.
22:42
Speaker2: I'm just saying this for practical reasons.
22:44
Speaker2: And if any verse, and I don't write copious notes, and I don't write out prayers,
22:48
Speaker2: other people do that, that's not helpful for me.
22:50
Speaker2: But for me, what's helpful is I read. If there is a verse that really grabs
22:55
Speaker2: my heart, or that's really important, then I'll sit there and I'll write that
22:59
Speaker2: out by hand, and just write it out of hand, then I'll meditate on that.
23:03
Speaker2: And that's kind of my practice to make sure that God's Word is getting into
23:06
Speaker2: me first. I'll just say, you know, pray for the desire.
23:09
Speaker2: If there's things blocking your walk, if there's things inside,
23:12
Speaker2: you have secret things, you can only, the power will come in your life as you
23:16
Speaker2: replace those things with God's presence.
23:19
Speaker2: And as I say, go back to that. God is always wanting a daily unbroken relationship with you.
23:24
Speaker2: He knows that we're not perfect. And even when we haven't been perfect,
23:28
Speaker2: still come to the Father and keep your account short with Him.
23:32
Speaker2: Tell Him what's happened. And I just think we're under such a perfectionist grind in ministry.
23:39
Speaker2: We can never, you know, we only hit a triple. We were supposed to hit a home run.
23:43
Speaker2: You know, the enemy is very, very smart. He's got us always worried about what
23:47
Speaker2: we can't do. But God knows us, loves us.
23:50
Speaker2: And as we're in front of Him, He will work His work. He doesn't want us to do
23:55
Speaker2: it by ourselves. Talking about, you know, don't do it alone.
23:58
Speaker2: This is essentially, don't do ministry on your own.
24:01
Speaker2: Do it in front of the Lord, and He will fill you. Jesus said,
24:05
Speaker2: I like this, and Jesus says, apart from me, you can do nothing. But Jesus also says,
24:08
Speaker2: with God, all things are possible. That's the whole ministry summed up. With me, everything.
24:15
Speaker2: Without me, nothing. So I'm going for everything.
24:18
Speaker2: That's what I'd like to go for. And I don't get there perfectly.
24:21
Speaker2: Nobody gets there perfectly. But just think of our pastors, you know,
24:24
Speaker2: would return and be in the presence of God as the great dream and desire of their life.
24:29
Speaker2: Then everything else will flow out of it. Great truth.
24:32
Speaker0: Absolutely. Well, Dr. Chris, you were a missionary.
24:35
Speaker0: That had to have been fascinating. So what was your favorite thing about being
24:40
Speaker0: a missionary in Spain and the hardest thing about being a missionary in Spain?
24:45
Speaker1: Yeah, we were, I knew missionaries there for about 10 years.
24:48
Speaker1: And my favorite thing is the people.
24:51
Speaker1: We were also missionaries. I was in Peru as a single guy before we got married.
24:56
Speaker1: And then we were in Guatemala as well.
24:58
Speaker1: But the people, that's my favorite thing is just getting to know other cultures, their differences,
25:05
Speaker1: the way they do things, the way they see things, the way they see the world,
25:09
Speaker1: and just the great part of that specific culture. That's my favorite thing.
25:15
Speaker1: As I've traveled the different countries of the world,
25:19
Speaker1: and especially believers in how they worship God and being able to worship God
25:24
Speaker1: in another language and just see that expression is pretty amazing because you see your own self.
25:31
Speaker1: When you see that culture, you see your own self and your own limitations and your own culture.
25:37
Speaker1: And so that's probably my favorite thing. My least favorite thing is one of
25:43
Speaker1: the least favorite things, I guess,
25:45
Speaker1: is just the feeling of what we're talking about, of you're kind of in this by yourself.
25:52
Speaker1: And, you know, Lone Ranger missionaries don't work well.
25:56
Speaker1: And so we operated as a team, but when you're in a pioneer area and a
26:02
Speaker1: unreached people group, it's very difficult.
26:06
Speaker1: And so you're doing ministry cross-culturally. You're in a second language that's not your own.
26:12
Speaker1: And so I say for me that that was a struggle or a difficulty.
26:17
Speaker1: I remember we would come on stateside assignment and before we went back,
26:22
Speaker1: I remember praying to God, God, I'm going to go back to Spain.
26:25
Speaker1: We're going back, but I don't want to do this by myself. I need team members. I need people.
26:31
Speaker1: And God granted of that request. We've had great team members,
26:35
Speaker1: not only the IMB, but other Great Commission Christians and other believers
26:39
Speaker1: that were in the area, other churches.
26:42
Speaker1: But it is a blessing to be able to serve God in that way and to be able to see
26:49
Speaker1: what He can do when you're not and you're out of your comfort zone,
26:54
Speaker1: just to see what the great and mighty things that He can do when we're We're
26:59
Speaker1: outside of our own culture and the things that are familiar to us.
27:02
Speaker2: Chris, can I ask you a question? This is very important. So I want you to think
27:06
Speaker2: about it. So you said Peru, Guatemala, and Spain, right?
27:10
Speaker2: Where did you feel like you got the best tan?
27:13
Speaker2: You look like you work on your tan a great deal. Where was the best tanning place that you served?
27:18
Speaker1: Probably Spain. I mean, it's a very sunny country. So lots of beaches.
27:23
Speaker1: It's surrounded by water. pretty much the whole country, except that little
27:27
Speaker1: part up there in the north. But yeah, I would say Spain.
27:31
Speaker1: That's a very good question.
27:33
Speaker2: That's where you spend a lot of time on the beach working on that tan we see right now.
27:36
Speaker1: That's right. That's right. That's right. It's been a while.
27:39
Speaker1: That's why I'm a little white.
27:41
Speaker0: Well, suntans are obviously very important to Dr. Stewart.
27:44
Speaker0: The thing that's very important to me is food. So I'm going to ask Dr.
27:47
Speaker0: Smith, where was the best food out of all of those places?
27:51
Speaker1: I would say Spain. We were there the longest, so that's really where we have
27:55
Speaker1: the deep relationships.
27:57
Speaker1: And they have paella, which is kind of one of their signature foods.
28:02
Speaker1: And it's a mixture of rice and they put different mariscos is what they call
28:08
Speaker1: them, which is kind of the seafood or you can put different things in there.
28:11
Speaker1: And gazpacho is another one.
28:13
Speaker1: It's kind of a soup that's cold.
28:17
Speaker1: It's a vegetable soup that's cold. And they have tortillas, but they're not
28:21
Speaker1: tortillas like you're thinking of, like Mexican tortillas.
28:23
Speaker1: It's like an omelet with potatoes in it. And those are called tortillas de patatas.
28:29
Speaker1: And so those are all, those are just three, but there are so many.
28:33
Speaker1: They have a lot of seafood. I grew up in Florida, and so I love seafood.
28:37
Speaker1: And they have a lot of great seafood, cheeses, and then the Iberian ham that
28:43
Speaker1: they have is really good.
28:45
Speaker1: And so, yeah, lots of good food to eat.
28:48
Speaker0: Well, I made the mistake of not eating lunch yet, so now I'm virtually starving.
28:51
Speaker0: Thank you for that. Do either of you guys have a parting.
28:54
Speaker3: Shot for us, a last word as we exit?
28:57
Speaker2: Backstage is the main stage.
28:59
Speaker1: That's good. Yeah, I think that, you know, that we would pray to God that he
29:04
Speaker1: would change our hearts and that we do the work on our heart and that that's
29:11
Speaker1: gonna just change our ministry so, so much.
29:15
Speaker1: And so our own heart work and to be diligent and leading ourself,
29:19
Speaker1: leading our family and leading the church, be diligent in leading yourself, leading your family.
29:25
Speaker0: Fantastic.
29:25
Speaker0: There was so much good meat on the bone in this episode on abiding,
29:30
Speaker0: on prioritizing the backstage.
29:32
Speaker3: On the importance of being rooted and grounded in Christ before we do any sort
29:37
Speaker3: of fruitful ministry with people.
29:40
Speaker0: So Dr. Smith, thank you for your time, for your service, for your multifaceted
29:44
Speaker0: ministry that you do down there in Southern California or almost Southern California.
29:50
Speaker3: Well, thank you for that, Dr. Stewart and Dr. Smith. Those were some great conversations
29:54
Speaker3: on the importance of abiding on a deep relationship with Jesus to fuel our ministry.
30:01
Speaker3: And if we're not paying attention to that backstage, then eventually the front
30:05
Speaker3: stage is going to collapse.
30:07
Speaker3: Well, let's transition from that most important topic to a topic that's only
30:12
Speaker3: a tiny bit less important, and that is excellent sodas.
30:17
Speaker3: And today, we've got a really fun one to review and a great guest host to review it with.
30:22
Speaker0: This week, my co-host, Pastor Christopher Cole, is out with the T-virus.
30:28
Speaker0: Hope he doesn't turn into a zombie. And I had to call in a ringer to help me.
30:33
Speaker0: So, ringer, introduce yourself. Hello, I'm JC.
30:36
Speaker0: I am an applied theology student at California Baptist University.
30:40
Speaker0: I've been studying there for about two years in hopes to pursue pastoral ministry.
30:44
Speaker0: And do we know each other before today's podcast?
30:47
Speaker0: We certainly do. I've known you for about 22 years, ever since I was born, dad.
30:53
Speaker0: So it's nice to be on this podcast. Story checks out. This is my son, JC. So today...
30:58
Speaker0: We are reviewing Iron Brew, which is Scotland's national beverage.
31:04
Speaker0: What's the first thing you notice about this beverage, son?
31:08
Speaker0: I've got to say the first thing that stood out to me was it had 62 calories.
31:12
Speaker0: I don't know why that was interesting, but that definitely stuck out.
31:16
Speaker0: 62 calories. I'll tell you the first thing I noticed, but I'm not going to tell
31:19
Speaker0: you yet. First, I'm going to tell you three facts about Iron Brew.
31:23
Speaker0: Pretty much every country in the world except Scotland, Iceland,
31:26
Speaker0: Peru, and the Middle East Coca-Cola is the best-selling soft drink.
31:31
Speaker0: But in Scotland, it's this guy. It's Iron Brew.
31:34
Speaker0: Second fact, Iron Brew's hook or advertising thing that they use to get people
31:40
Speaker0: to drink it is made in Scotland from girders.
31:43
Speaker0: It's not made from girders, but it really does have iron added.
31:48
Speaker3: Which I'm not
31:49
Speaker0: Sure is a good thing for a soda. When I think refreshing, I don't think girders. And the last thing.
31:55
Speaker3: Is that the
31:56
Speaker0: Literal world's largest horse once worked for Iron Brew and delivered it around back in the day.
32:03
Speaker0: It was a Clydesdale named Carnera.
32:06
Speaker0: He was 19 hands tall, which is like six foot six, and he weighed.
32:10
Speaker3: Over a ton. And that was
32:12
Speaker0: The biggest horse in the world in the 1930s. Okay, well, let's give it a shot.
32:16
Speaker0: I always smell it first, which is weird, but let's see.
32:19
Speaker0: So you said it's got iron in it? It's got iron in it. Okay.
32:22
Speaker0: I'm getting a little tutti frutti, bubble gummy kind of smell.
32:26
Speaker0: I don't know. Let's try it. Okay.
32:27
Speaker0: I've never tasted a soda with this flavor before. It's definitely citrusy. What do you think.
32:33
Speaker3: JC?
32:34
Speaker0: That's nice. It's refreshing. It's got a cool, natural, orangey kind of taste.
32:39
Speaker0: I don't know if the color is kind of throwing me off, but it's definitely pretty good. It's appealing.
32:44
Speaker0: I like it so far. I'm going to go back for another one. It does not taste like
32:48
Speaker0: Sunkist. It looks like Sunkist, but it doesn't taste like Sunkist. Is that...
32:53
Speaker3: There's a little,
32:54
Speaker0: Definitely a little cream soda or bubblegum or orange.
32:58
Speaker0: It's got a complex flavor. And look, I don't know if this is my imagination,
33:02
Speaker0: but I feel like I can taste the girder.
33:04
Speaker0: I feel like there's a little bit of a metallic aftertaste.
33:08
Speaker0: Can you taste it or am I just crazy? Yeah, no, I definitely got that kind of metallic-y taste.
33:13
Speaker0: Almost like it kind of just went through metal before it was in the can. Yeah.
33:17
Speaker0: So maybe this is good for you if you got iron poor blood. By.
33:20
Speaker3: The way, thank
33:21
Speaker0: You to Every Church Flourishing listener, Lonnie, who may or may not be Scottish,
33:27
Speaker0: but he provided this beverage for us to sample.
33:30
Speaker0: And I think I'm going to give this a solid four out of five Spurgeon.
33:37
Speaker0: I would drink it. It's good. I just would love to know if I would detect that
33:42
Speaker0: aftertaste if I didn't know about the girders and the iron. What will you.
33:46
Speaker3: Give it out of five Spurgeons,
33:48
Speaker0: JC? see. Honestly, I've got to give it a little bit higher on that.
33:52
Speaker0: I like the aftertaste and I'm not noticing it too much. It's cool. It's nice.
33:57
Speaker0: I definitely think I would get this on a regular day of just studying and working on some schools.
34:02
Speaker0: So I'd give it about 4.4 Spursions.
34:06
Speaker0: 4.4. Wow. You know what the only thing that keeps me from going higher?
34:09
Speaker0: Something you haven't noticed? It's the color. Huh. Orange and blue.
34:13
Speaker0: Yeah. No. Yeah. Roll Tide. Roll Tide. Come on. But I guess we can forgive the
34:18
Speaker0: Scots for that combination.
34:21
Speaker0: Tasty Brew. Hey, before I go, JC, let me ask you a question.
34:24
Speaker3: Sure. In your studies
34:25
Speaker0: As a bat student at Cal Baptist, how much have you talked about the Apocrypha?
34:30
Speaker0: Man, we haven't talked too much about the Apocrypha. It's certainly come up
34:34
Speaker0: in a couple of conversations.
34:36
Speaker0: We've talked a little bit about the book of Enoch. Other than that,
34:40
Speaker0: we haven't gone too much into that.
34:42
Speaker0: Well, I think you're like most Protestants in that. And if you,
34:46
Speaker0: you're going to find out more and more about the Apocrypha than you might have ever known before.
34:52
Speaker3: All right, now that our thirst is sated for the time being, and we still got
34:57
Speaker3: that weird taste in our mouth from our Scottish brew friends,
35:00
Speaker3: let's get into the Apocrypha.
35:03
Speaker3: Allow me to read for you a passage from the King James Version of the Bible
35:07
Speaker3: with slightly modernized language.
35:10
Speaker3: Making a gathering, he sent 12,000 drachmas of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice
35:17
Speaker3: to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection.
35:25
Speaker3: For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again,
35:30
Speaker3: it would have seemed superfluous to pray for the dead.
35:35
Speaker3: And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness had
35:40
Speaker3: great grace laid up for them,
35:42
Speaker3: It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from sins.
35:52
Speaker3: So if I was being a little tongue-in-cheek, a little deceptive,
35:57
Speaker3: a little provocative, I could tell you with some level of accuracy that the
36:02
Speaker3: passage I just read was indeed from the King James Version of the Bible.
36:06
Speaker3: And I would be, strictly speaking, telling the truth.
36:10
Speaker3: And you, if you are a Bible scholar or a preacher or a teacher who knows the
36:14
Speaker3: word well, you might be puzzled,
36:17
Speaker3: scratch your head, or outright call me a liar, thinking, with great justification,
36:22
Speaker3: I might add, that the Bible doesn't teach that it is holy and wholesome to pray for the dead.
36:28
Speaker3: And you would be right, too, in a sense. So what gives?
36:33
Speaker3: Well, here's the solution to the riddle. The passage I just read to you is from 2 Maccabees 12,
36:40
Speaker3: 43-46, and whether or not that passage is in the Bible, so to speak,
36:45
Speaker3: is a debate that is almost 2,000 years old. But what I said is true.
36:50
Speaker3: The book of 2 Maccabees, and 1 Maccabees for that matter, is indeed in the first
36:55
Speaker3: edition of the King James Bible, the original 1611 version, and was in many, if not most,
37:02
Speaker3: versions of the KJV for almost 200 years or so before it was officially removed
37:08
Speaker3: from pretty much every version of the King James in the 1800s.
37:12
Speaker3: So what is the Apocrypha?
37:15
Speaker3: If you've ever picked up a Catholic Bible and noticed it has more books than
37:19
Speaker3: the one in the pew at your Baptist church, you've encountered the Apocrypha.
37:23
Speaker3: That word comes from a Greek word, apocryphos, which means hidden or concealed.
37:28
Speaker3: In Christian usage, it's come to refer to a particular set of Jewish religious
37:34
Speaker3: texts that were written roughly between 200 BC and maybe even up into the first century AD.
37:41
Speaker3: These are books that ended up in some Christian Bibles, but not in the Hebrew
37:47
Speaker3: Bible used by the Jews, and the books in question include 1 and 2 Maccabees, the book of Tobit,
37:54
Speaker3: Judith, the wisdom of Solomon, Sirach, which is also called Ecclesiasticus,
38:00
Speaker3: Baruch, the letter of Jeremiah, and then some additions to the books of Esther
38:04
Speaker3: and Daniel, and 1 and 2 Esdras and the prayer of Manasseh.
38:09
Speaker3: Roman Catholics call most of those books deuterocanonical, which is a term that
38:15
Speaker3: came about in the 16th century by the Catholic theologian Sixtus of Siena.
38:20
Speaker3: It is a word that literally means second canon or second collection of authoritative
38:26
Speaker3: books, and it doesn't necessarily mean that the Catholics and the Orthodox consider
38:31
Speaker3: these books on a second level,
38:33
Speaker3: but they were sort of added to the canon at a later stage of recognition.
38:40
Speaker3: And most Catholics in Eastern Orthodox and churches of the East,
38:44
Speaker3: most of those adherents considered these books to be equally inspired as the
38:50
Speaker3: other Old Testament books.
38:52
Speaker3: Protestants generally called them apocryphal or the apocrypha, and
38:58
Speaker3: Eastern Orthodox Christians use another term, which is translated to things
39:02
Speaker3: that are read, and they add even more books, including 3rd Maccabees, Psalm 151,
39:09
Speaker3: and depending on the flavor of the Orthodox, even some more other than that.
39:13
Speaker3: Some Orthodox churches, like for instance, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church,
39:18
Speaker3: adds books like the Book of Enoch to the whole count of these canonical books.
39:25
Speaker3: And the bottom line is this, the same seven on the low end, 15,
39:30
Speaker3: or even more on the high end, books that one tradition calls scripture,
39:35
Speaker3: another tradition calls useful but not scripture, or even I would say most Protestants
39:41
Speaker3: today kind of call these apocryphal books not very useful at all and rather to be avoided.
39:48
Speaker3: So why do Protestants and modern rabbinical Jews reject the Apocrypha?
39:56
Speaker3: Because for the most part, both Protestants and modern Jews who follow the Old
40:02
Speaker3: Testament of the Bible, both groups reject the Apocrypha.
40:06
Speaker3: Why do they do that? It's a complex question that we're going to cover pretty
40:10
Speaker3: deeply on the next couple of episodes, but I want to give you one example.
40:14
Speaker3: Some of the texts of the Apocrypha are, quite frankly,
40:20
Speaker3: Kind of strange, and they don't seem to fit in very well with the rest of the
40:24
Speaker3: 66 books of the Old and New Testament that Protestants consider inerrant and
40:29
Speaker3: inspired, and let me give you a pretty good example.
40:32
Speaker3: From the book of Tobit, chapter 6, verse 8.
40:37
Speaker3: The angel said to him, Take out the entrails of the fish and lay up his heart
40:42
Speaker3: and his gall and his liver for thee, for these are necessary for useful medicines.
40:49
Speaker3: Then Tobias asked the angel and said to him, I beseech thee,
40:54
Speaker3: brother Azarias, Azarias being the name of the angel, tell me what remedies
40:58
Speaker3: are these things good for which thou hast bid me keep of the fish.
41:02
Speaker3: And the angel answering said to him, If you put a little piece of its heart
41:07
Speaker3: upon the coals, the smoke thereof driveth away all kinds of devils,
41:14
Speaker3: either from man or from woman, so that they come no more to them.
41:19
Speaker3: Well, quite frankly, putting pieces of fish hearts on the fire does not seem
41:25
Speaker3: to be a very biblical way of driving away devils. and thus this passage seems
41:30
Speaker3: a little bit foreign and strange.
41:33
Speaker3: To both Old Testament and New Testament practices.
41:37
Speaker3: Now, most but not all of our listeners are Protestant, so I have compiled a
41:42
Speaker3: couple of top five lists for you that won't answer every question about the
41:47
Speaker3: apocryphal books or the Deuteronom canonical books, if you prefer,
41:51
Speaker3: but it will be a beginning, and it will help us to dive deeper into the discussion in future episodes.
41:57
Speaker3: So let's start out with the first list, five things modern Baptists and Protestants
42:03
Speaker3: should know about the Apocrypha.
42:05
Speaker3: Number one, the Apocrypha, or the deuterocanonical books, they're not a Catholic invention.
42:11
Speaker3: These are ancient Jewish religious writings, mostly composed before Christ,
42:17
Speaker3: that they were already circulating in the Greek-speaking world before the New Testament was written.
42:22
Speaker3: Most of them were, at any rate. The question is not whether they existed and
42:27
Speaker3: whether they're ancient, but how we should treat them, how they should be classified.
42:31
Speaker3: Many in the early church read those writings, and Jesus and the apostles often
42:36
Speaker3: quoted from the Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament,
42:42
Speaker3: which itself includes some of these writings.
42:45
Speaker3: Though, to be fair and thorough, I don't know of any instance where the New
42:49
Speaker3: Testament quotes the Apocrypha,
42:52
Speaker3: which is important evidence, but the New Testament book of Jude does indeed
42:58
Speaker3: seem to quote from the book of Enoch,
43:01
Speaker3: but Enoch is not the proper apocrypha or in the deuterocanonical writings.
43:07
Speaker3: All right, number two, some of our Protestant ancestors actually read these apocryphal books.
43:13
Speaker3: The pilgrims who landed at Plymouth carried Geneva Bibles that contained the apocrypha.
43:19
Speaker3: Treating these texts as exotic or forbidden is really not entirely historically
43:25
Speaker3: accurate, but it is clear that beginning right around the time of the Puritans,
43:30
Speaker3: the Protestant position on the Apocrypha did become a little more negative.
43:35
Speaker3: Number three, five things modern Baptists and Protestants should know about the Apocrypha.
43:39
Speaker3: Up until recently, the Protestant position on the Apocrypha has always been
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Speaker3: kind of a middle path, not considering it equal to scripture,
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Speaker3: but not worthless either.
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Speaker3: On the one hand, you have like the Westminster Confession,
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Speaker3: Which basically considers apocryphal books as having no authority,
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Speaker3: but the Lutherans and Anglicans still read from it during some public scripture reading times.
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Speaker3: Number four things modern Baptists and Protestants should know about the Apocrypha.
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Speaker3: It can be argued that reading the apocryphal books can really genuinely illuminate the New Testament.
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Speaker3: The 400 years between the book of Malachi at the end of the Old Testament and
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Speaker3: the book of Matthew and Mark at the beginning of the New Testament were not culturally silent.
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Speaker3: Things happened and the Jews wrote about them.
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Speaker3: Few scholars or reformers doubt that these books come from the so-called intertestamental period.
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Speaker3: 1 and 2 Maccabees explain the historical roots of Hanukkah, which is the festival
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Speaker3: of dedication that Jesus attends in John 10, verse 22.
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Speaker3: The book of Tobit features really what is the first detailed depiction in Jewish
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Speaker3: literature of demonic possession, which is quite relevant to how gospel readers
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Speaker3: would have understood Jesus' exorcisms.
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Speaker3: Although you really could argue that earlier biblical accounts like King Saul's
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Speaker3: evil spirit from the Lord in 1 Samuel 16
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Speaker3: Were related to some sort of demonic possession. Number five of five things
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Speaker3: Protestants should know about these apocryphal books is that knowing about the
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Speaker3: books and what's in the books will equip you for thoughtful conversations with
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Speaker3: your Catholic, Orthodox,
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Speaker3: Anglican, maybe even your Lutheran friends, and it will help you read older,
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Speaker3: Reformed Protestant works without confusion when they talk about the Maccabees or Ecclesiasticus.
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Speaker3: And really, it'll also help you understand the early church fathers as well.
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Speaker3: And they wrote extensively about these books.
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Speaker3: And along those lines, here is what John Calvin wrote about Baruch,
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Speaker3: One of the books of the Apocrypha.
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Speaker3: And I note that he called Baruch a prophet.
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Speaker3: Calvin says the soul buried in its own darkness is blind. It is also dumb not
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Speaker3: being able to confess unto salvation what it has believed unto righteousness.
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Speaker3: It is deaf not hearing that living voice. The soul is lame, unable to support
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Speaker3: itself, having none to whom it can say, You have held my right hand and conducted me in thy will.
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Speaker3: In short, the soul performs no one function of life.
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Speaker3: For thus speaks the prophet when he would show that the fountain of life is with God.
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Speaker3: Baruch 3.14, learn where there is prudence, where there is virtue,
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Speaker3: where there is understanding, where there is length of life and food,
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Speaker3: where there is light to the eyes and peace.
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Speaker3: Well, that's interesting. And to be clear, Calvin, nor really pretty much any
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Speaker3: of the reformers, accepted these books as authoritative and canonical,
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Speaker3: infallible and inspired like the other 66 books of the Bible. But he.
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Speaker3: They had different opinions on the Apocrypha, some of them better than others.
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Speaker3: And Luther himself had a very nuanced view that we will get into a little bit
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Speaker3: more on our upcoming episodes. But let me close out with this.
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Speaker3: Five interesting factoids about the Apocrypha.
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Speaker3: Number one, the 1611, as we've already referenced, King James Version was published
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Speaker3: with the Apocrypha. It contained roughly 80 books, not 66.
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Speaker3: And the apocryphal books were sort of wedged there between the Old Testament and the New Testament.
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Speaker3: And they were in there, like I said, for a couple of hundred years.
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Speaker3: And not just the King James Version. Also, the Geneva Bible,
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Speaker3: the Bishop's Bible, the Tyndale Bible, the Coverdale Bible, and many other early
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Speaker3: translations of the Bible for Protestants had the apocrypha in it.
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Speaker3: Number two, even in some Protestant traditions, the Maccabean martyrs,
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Speaker3: which are written about in 1st and 2nd Maccabees, are considered as saints.
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Speaker3: The mother and seven sons whose torture is described in 2nd Maccabees chapter
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Speaker3: 7 are commemorated as saints in the Catholic Orthodox and some Lutheran liturgical calendars.
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Speaker3: And Augustine, St. Augustine, notes the irony in his book, The City of God,
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Speaker3: that the city of Antioch, which was the capital of the Seleucid Empire that
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Speaker3: persecuted the Maccabees, eventually housed a major shrine in their honor.
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Speaker3: Number three factoid about the Apocrypha, some Protestant Amish to this day
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Speaker3: recite the Apocrypha at their weddings,
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Speaker3: primarily the retelling of the marriage of Tobias and Sarah from the book of
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Speaker3: Tobit, and some Anabaptists, where Southern Baptists trace their roots,
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Speaker3: still today use the Luther Bible, and they have continued to read the Apocrypha for centuries.
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Speaker3: Number four, Jerome is a scholar from the 300s who translated the Bible into Latin.
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Speaker3: Jerome really produced maybe the first major translation of the Bible from the
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Speaker3: Greek. It was called the Vulgate.
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Speaker3: There were translations before that, but his was like the first major one.
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Speaker3: He translated the Apocrypha also, but he did so under quite a bit of protest,
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Speaker3: and he wrote about it in the prologue to his translation. Number five, finally.
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Speaker3: The hymn, which may not be sung in a ton of Baptist churches now,
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Speaker3: but a hymn I am familiar with, Now Thank We All Our God, is a Lutheran hymn
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Speaker3: that is based on the Apocrypha.
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Speaker3: It's not drawn from the Old or New Testament, but the book of Sirach, chapter 50.
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Speaker3: For centuries, German Lutherans and many other Protestants, because it was made
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Speaker3: popular by Johann Sebastian Bach,
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Speaker3: have heard this hymn and sang the words to it, not really realizing perhaps
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Speaker3: that it was based on the book of Sirach.
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Speaker3: So, should the Apocrypha be considered as infallible and inerrant and inspired
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Speaker3: scripture by Protestants?
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Speaker3: I don't think so. And we'll make that case in some upcoming episodes why these
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Speaker3: are books that are interesting to read and maybe even edifying,
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Speaker3: but fall short of canonical authority because they don't appear to be inerrant
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Speaker3: and infallible and inspired in the same way these other 66 books of the Bible are.
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Speaker3: I would love to hear from you. What do you think about the Apocrypha?
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Speaker3: Have you ever read it? Do you have any opinions on it?
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Speaker3: One way you can contact us is through our website, everychurchflourishing.com.
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Speaker3: You can leave a voicemail, or you can just simply send an email there,
50:57
Speaker3: everychurchflourishing.com.
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Speaker3: Between now and next week, I would encourage you to tell a friend about the
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Speaker3: show, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, and we will be back one week from
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Speaker3: today with a great interview.
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Speaker3: Very insightful words from Dr.
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Speaker3: Kristen Ferguson of Gateway Seminary. Can't wait for that. Good day to you, and Godspeed.