Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Mystery Swirls: Mom Debbie Collier Found Stripped, Dead, Charred

Transcript

Mystery Swirls: Mom Debbie Collier Found Stripped, Dead, Charred · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece Deborah aka Debbie Collier. Just
0:19
Speaker 1: think about it. A few weeks ago we didn't know
0:21
Speaker 1: her name, but now her name will forever be connected
0:26
Speaker 1: to the circumstances surrounding her murder. A mystery, a puzzle
0:31
Speaker 1: that is still missing, a piece. I me, Nancy Grace,
0:36
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
0:38
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven. In
0:43
Speaker 1: the last hours, police have a press or a press
0:47
Speaker 1: conference answering some but not all of our questions. As
0:54
Speaker 1: of right now, this mom found almost completely naked down
1:00
Speaker 1: a side of a ravine, her body partially burned, but
1:05
Speaker 1: it seems as if, based on video surveillance we have
1:08
Speaker 1: just seen within an hour before she was perfectly normal,
1:15
Speaker 1: seemingly headed to a football tailgating party. First of all,
1:21
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at Fox five to
1:24
Speaker 1: speculation about this case over the last several weeks. This
1:27
Speaker 1: was the first opportunity for reporters to go face to
1:30
Speaker 1: face on the record with investigators. What happened to Debbie
1:33
Speaker 1: Collier found partially nude and burned on the side of
1:35
Speaker 1: this road. According to investigators, it's clear we have not
1:39
Speaker 1: changed our thoughts about this being a homicide. We believe
1:42
Speaker 1: that this act was deliberate and personal. There is no
1:45
Speaker 1: information or evidence to this point that shows that this
1:50
Speaker 1: was something random, that there was something that was out
1:54
Speaker 1: that was not from somebody that she either knew or
1:59
Speaker 1: somebody who she had some association with, new or high
2:04
Speaker 1: association with. And all you legal eagles called it along
2:09
Speaker 1: with this exact panel on day one. A random killer
2:14
Speaker 1: such as, Oh, let's just say a burglar that has
2:17
Speaker 1: no idea who's home he's going into. And I say he,
2:20
Speaker 1: because typically is a he, and you see the homeowner
2:26
Speaker 1: there and you nut up and kill them. That hardly
2:28
Speaker 1: ever happens, But that would be random. Usually that burglar
2:34
Speaker 1: turned killer leaves high tails it out. You see nothing
2:38
Speaker 1: but tell hoole and elbows they're gone. Why go to
2:42
Speaker 1: all the effort to stage the scene, try to burn
2:46
Speaker 1: the body to dispose of it, smash her cell phone?
2:51
Speaker 1: Just too much surrounding this scene? Screams targeted, screams deliberate,
3:00
Speaker 1: take a listen to more so, they must trace Collier's steps.
3:03
Speaker 1: This is a new snapshot from the day before her
3:06
Speaker 1: body was discovered. Her vehicle traveling northbound on Georgia fifteen
3:10
Speaker 1: on September tenth, around two fifteen pm, in the direction
3:14
Speaker 1: of the Clayton Family Dollar, the place she was last
3:16
Speaker 1: seen alive. You can see her buying various items. Around
3:19
Speaker 1: three that afternoon, investigators have new video of her walking
3:22
Speaker 1: out of the store back to her car and found
3:25
Speaker 1: that she stayed in the parking lot on additional ten
3:27
Speaker 1: minutes from that ten minutes. At three nineteen pm, she
3:31
Speaker 1: leaves the parking lot and begins to head southbound on
3:34
Speaker 1: Georgia fifteen. Okay, let's just absorb what we're hearing. She's
3:39
Speaker 1: going north on Georgia at fifteen. I believe that's also
3:42
Speaker 1: known as old for forty one going north. She goes
3:47
Speaker 1: to the Family Dollar, she comes out, she sits in
3:51
Speaker 1: her car for ten minutes, which I do not advise ladies.
3:57
Speaker 1: Don't do that. If you're in your car, locked the
4:01
Speaker 1: car immediately and try to leave as quickly as you can.
4:06
Speaker 1: Now sometimes you have to, I don't know, turn on
4:09
Speaker 1: your book on tape, or make a call and put
4:11
Speaker 1: it on speaker, or get your directions into your ways
4:15
Speaker 1: or your Google map. All of that you should really
4:18
Speaker 1: do before you get in the car that said she
4:22
Speaker 1: sat in her car about ten minutes from three o
4:26
Speaker 1: nine pm to three nineteen pm. It was during that window,
4:33
Speaker 1: that ten minute window, that a mysterious VENMO for nearly
4:37
Speaker 1: three thousand dollars was sent from her to her daughter,
4:41
Speaker 1: who curiously had just moved home forty eight hours before.
4:45
Speaker 1: Two days. She's home and her mom's dead. She sends
4:48
Speaker 1: a VENMO to the daughter. We think or did someone
4:53
Speaker 1: hack into her venomo and send that. You don't have
4:58
Speaker 1: to have a VMO sent from your cell phone as
5:01
Speaker 1: long as someone knows how to log in. What was
5:04
Speaker 1: her log in? Was it her birthday? Was it her
5:06
Speaker 1: daughter's birthday? Was it cut some configuration of their initials?
5:11
Speaker 1: Plus he's got a son to plus their dbes? Was
5:15
Speaker 1: it easy to figure out? Could anybody do it? Well?
5:20
Speaker 1: There's more. Listen. Keep in mind this is around the
5:22
Speaker 1: same time Kyler's daughter, Amanda Bearden says she received a
5:26
Speaker 1: VENMO payment and a note from her mother saying, quote,
5:29
Speaker 1: they are not going to let me go love you.
5:31
Speaker 1: We're still waiting more information that we have requested to
5:33
Speaker 1: confirm or deny where the VEMO was sent from, but
5:36
Speaker 1: we can confirm that it Amanda did receive the VENMO.
5:40
Speaker 1: I'll tell you straight up right here. As far as
5:42
Speaker 1: this investigation goes, it seems like once we get on
5:44
Speaker 1: track with something like a curveball comes in out of nowhere.
5:47
Speaker 1: Again we may be several weeks away from learning autopsy results.
5:51
Speaker 1: So investigati say this case is a marathon, not a race. Well,
5:55
Speaker 1: I can tell you one thing now, this is Latin
6:00
Speaker 1: eagle talk. She's sure as hell was not being hell
6:04
Speaker 1: hostage as she was sitting in her own rental car
6:08
Speaker 1: and the parking lot of the Family Dollar. So day
6:12
Speaker 1: one when we heard that message part of the VENMO.
6:18
Speaker 1: At the time that message was sent, Deborah Debbie Collier
6:22
Speaker 1: was sitting and her rental car, a Chrysler pacifica black
6:27
Speaker 1: in color, in the parking lot of the Family Dollar.
6:31
Speaker 1: She wasn't being hell hostage. Nobody was not gonna let
6:34
Speaker 1: me go at that moment. So that message, as we
6:38
Speaker 1: thought at the get go, seemed so dramatic, like a
6:40
Speaker 1: fifth grade girl wrote it in a novel. Is a lie.
6:44
Speaker 1: I don't think Debbie Collier sent that, so who did?
6:48
Speaker 1: If we figure that out, we might know her killer.
6:51
Speaker 1: Earlier I was talking about video surveillance near one of
6:55
Speaker 1: the Telulah Gorge Telula Falls School highs video surveillance and
7:02
Speaker 1: they see her going north toward the Family Dollar. That's
7:06
Speaker 1: where the Family Dollars. Surveillance catches her coming in dressed
7:09
Speaker 1: up while she's going tailgating and her Georgia Bulldog's outfit.
7:14
Speaker 1: She buys a few things, leave sits in her card.
7:17
Speaker 1: Ten minutes heads back the way she came. But we
7:20
Speaker 1: don't have any surveillance video going southbound on forty one.
7:26
Speaker 1: Why with me an all star pound to make sense
7:29
Speaker 1: of what we know right now? Now? You were just
7:31
Speaker 1: hearing our friends at Fox five, but they're talking about
7:37
Speaker 1: the press conference that has just gone down in the
7:39
Speaker 1: last hours. Let's hear it from the horse's mouth. Take
7:43
Speaker 1: a listen to the Habersham County Sheriffs. She stayed in
7:47
Speaker 1: the parking lot in additional ten minutes from that ten minutes.
7:51
Speaker 1: At three nineteen pm, she leaves the parking lot and
7:55
Speaker 1: begins to head southbound on Georgia fifteen, which is the
7:59
Speaker 1: main highway, the four lane highway that connects Raven County
8:02
Speaker 1: to Haversham. She starts traveling southbound towards to Little Falls,
8:07
Speaker 1: which is just inside Haversham County. We are still in
8:10
Speaker 1: the process of trying to obtain videos from other locations
8:13
Speaker 1: and other businesses along that route, and we encourage any
8:16
Speaker 1: business along that route that might have cameras please reach
8:20
Speaker 1: out to us. That way we can have a meeting
8:22
Speaker 1: with you and see if we can kind of even
8:25
Speaker 1: narrow down our timeline even more. People. Listen, any business
8:29
Speaker 1: or home along that stretch of Georgia fifteen, check your
8:34
Speaker 1: surveillance video. See what you can see. It may mean
8:38
Speaker 1: nothing to you, but it can mean a lot to investigators.
8:42
Speaker 1: Was she being followed? Was there a car telling her?
8:45
Speaker 1: Think about it? Her car was found not too far
8:48
Speaker 1: from her dead body down a ravine. So what did
8:51
Speaker 1: the killer walk away? Take a bicycle? Note the killer
8:56
Speaker 1: had wheels. Was he or she following her as she
9:02
Speaker 1: went toward that ravine area? Take a listen to more
9:06
Speaker 1: from the Habersham County Sheriff's This tells us that the
9:10
Speaker 1: timeframe is actually narrowed a little further. For this case
9:15
Speaker 1: to begin at three nineteen pm on Saturday, September tenth
9:21
Speaker 1: and ending at twelve forty four Sunday, September eleventh, the
9:25
Speaker 1: time of the discovery. Please understand that this case is
9:30
Speaker 1: very complex in nature and has a lot of questions
9:34
Speaker 1: and unknowns that aren't found in a typical death investigation.
9:39
Speaker 1: It is going to take significantly more time than the
9:43
Speaker 1: nineteen days that have passed since the discovery to solve
9:46
Speaker 1: this crime. He's right about that time stories with Nancy Greece.
10:05
Speaker 1: They have a sub county sheriff's office made it very
10:08
Speaker 1: clear that they have called in outside help, specifically neighboring
10:14
Speaker 1: county law enforcement. With me and all Star Pale to
10:18
Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now. But first
10:20
Speaker 1: of all, I want to go out to Fox News
10:22
Speaker 1: digital reporter Michael Ruiz, who has been on the case
10:25
Speaker 1: from the very beginning, and you hear his voice peppering
10:30
Speaker 1: the sheriff's office with questions. Michael, thank you for being
10:33
Speaker 1: with us. I'm going to get into the Venmo account
10:36
Speaker 1: and how that happens and the timing event and what
10:39
Speaker 1: it means, because they said something very curious that they
10:43
Speaker 1: know the money was sent to Amanda Barden, but they
10:46
Speaker 1: don't know where the money is. That to me is inconsistent,
10:50
Speaker 1: But I bet there's a good explanation for it. I
10:52
Speaker 1: want to first focus on what we learned about the
10:56
Speaker 1: family Dollar video, because it's the day of a game
11:00
Speaker 1: and she is absolutely dressed up like she's going to
11:04
Speaker 1: some type of a uga party with the colors red
11:06
Speaker 1: and black. Yeah. Andy, first, thanks for having me. But
11:08
Speaker 1: also she walks into that store wearing I mean, it
11:11
Speaker 1: looks like a herschel Walker jersey, or at least it's
11:13
Speaker 1: his number. It's kind of hard to read the back
11:15
Speaker 1: in the video there, but she goes in and what
11:17
Speaker 1: does she buy? Poncho's a lighter, a tart. I mean,
11:20
Speaker 1: if you're gonna watch the game somewhere outside, those are
11:23
Speaker 1: things you might bring with you. What was the weather
11:25
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, the day she goes missing, Jackie,
11:27
Speaker 1: you'll get that up on the almanac, the weather in
11:31
Speaker 1: Athens on the day she goes missing, which was September ten,
11:37
Speaker 1: Because she was found September eleven, which was a Sunday,
11:43
Speaker 1: so September ten, it had to be raining, which is
11:49
Speaker 1: another indication. Michael Ruiz, when I found out that she
11:52
Speaker 1: bought a poncho, I'm like, no way, did this woman
11:56
Speaker 1: playing a suicide. She's worse, She's gonna get her hair wet. No,
12:01
Speaker 1: that's not the thinking of someone about to end their life.
12:03
Speaker 1: But there there's so much more evidence to support it
12:05
Speaker 1: was not a suicide, that said Michael Ruis. She comes
12:09
Speaker 1: into the family dollar, she gets a poncho, she gets
12:13
Speaker 1: a lighter stick, which I'm thinking is one of those
12:16
Speaker 1: clicky things that you hold out to the fire and
12:18
Speaker 1: you click it and start it. Correct. Right. They described
12:21
Speaker 1: it as a torch lighter, but they haven't shown us
12:23
Speaker 1: an actual picture of it. But you could start liking
12:25
Speaker 1: cold light a barbecue, something like that. It makes sense
12:29
Speaker 1: to purchase for that scenario. Lighter, poncho, a blue tarp
12:34
Speaker 1: which was found near her body, partially burned, a red
12:38
Speaker 1: tote bag which was also found, which I believe she
12:42
Speaker 1: was gonna use to carry her items to our imaginary
12:47
Speaker 1: tailgate party. She's dressed up. It looks like black boots.
12:51
Speaker 1: She may have on black hose. I couldn't tell from
12:53
Speaker 1: the surveillance camera, could you if she had on hose?
12:57
Speaker 1: And there's a reason I ask, well, we don't know
12:59
Speaker 1: anything about what she was wearing. The investigators have kind
13:02
Speaker 1: of kept a lot of the crime scene details. Well,
13:05
Speaker 1: I mean, look at it. Man I'm sure you're not
13:08
Speaker 1: that familiar with women's sheer black hose. Renee Rockwell joining
13:12
Speaker 1: me high profile, defensive turning out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.
13:16
Speaker 1: You can find her at Renee dot Rockwell, Renee with
13:19
Speaker 1: two ease, Renee. Have you looked at the surveillance video
13:23
Speaker 1: at that family dollar? Look at it, Nancy. The value
13:26
Speaker 1: is that it's starting to zero in on some better
13:32
Speaker 1: time references for us, and it may in fact start
13:36
Speaker 1: eliminating usual suspects. Can we talk about what we know?
13:41
Speaker 1: Please do? But my main question to you was what
13:43
Speaker 1: is she wearing hose? Is she wearing black hose? Jackie
13:47
Speaker 1: Sydney look at it because her legs look like she's
13:49
Speaker 1: wearing sheer black hose. But I can't tell oh, seventy
13:52
Speaker 1: degrees no rain, ninety degrees no rain. Just look at
13:57
Speaker 1: the video, jack and said, and tell me what you see.
14:02
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Renee. You're telling me what we know. Okay.
14:04
Speaker 1: What we know is that the interesting the Benmo twenty
14:08
Speaker 1: three eighty five, whoever sent that money knew that that
14:13
Speaker 1: amount would go through. Don't you have a problem with that? Nancy? Yes,
14:18
Speaker 1: I do, as you and I both know in my
14:20
Speaker 1: early days at the DA's office, I would have to
14:22
Speaker 1: actually go to the bank to check my balance, to
14:25
Speaker 1: drive through to find out how much money was in
14:27
Speaker 1: there before I would write a big check, right exactly, Renee,
14:31
Speaker 1: explain it to the other people that may not have
14:33
Speaker 1: money problems ever in their life. Well, whoever, I'm not
14:36
Speaker 1: gonna be able to send somebody twenty three eighty five
14:39
Speaker 1: right now, random number, random amount. But guess what the
14:43
Speaker 1: amount went through? So somebody knew that that amount would
14:47
Speaker 1: go through. That's just interesting to me, You know what,
14:51
Speaker 1: That is really smart and I had not thought of that.
14:54
Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed to say it's a random amount, which I
14:59
Speaker 1: was the example of the Jeanne Ramsey case where the
15:03
Speaker 1: ransom was one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars, which coincidentally
15:06
Speaker 1: was John Ramsey's bonus amount that he had just gotten.
15:10
Speaker 1: Who knew that? But yes, what was that number? What
15:14
Speaker 1: was it to pay? What was it for? And also
15:18
Speaker 1: who would know that she had that much in her
15:20
Speaker 1: checking account? That's a really good point. Uh, guys, have
15:25
Speaker 1: either of you looked at the video yet? Yes? Does
15:28
Speaker 1: it look like she has on sheer black hose or no?
15:30
Speaker 1: Hose at all you can see your legs. Yeah, I
15:34
Speaker 1: could see her legs, but it couldn't know if it
15:36
Speaker 1: was a silhouette making the outline of the legs dark,
15:39
Speaker 1: or was she wearing sheer hose black purse right in
15:42
Speaker 1: front of Yes, she's got the big purse. Uh. Michael
15:47
Speaker 1: at Ruis has got a lot of questions about the
15:49
Speaker 1: purse and a circle back to that in just one
15:52
Speaker 1: moment um Karen start joining me renowned psychologists out of
15:56
Speaker 1: the New York jurisdiction at Karen Stark dot com. Karen
16:00
Speaker 1: with a c. Did you listen to the husband's nine
16:06
Speaker 1: one one call? Did you hear that? I did? Yes,
16:09
Speaker 1: he sounds sincere. He not only sounds sincere, but when
16:13
Speaker 1: they look into him, Nancy, he really was parking cars
16:17
Speaker 1: for the game, and so he has an alibi that sticks.
16:23
Speaker 1: What's what's most interesting to me as a psychologist is
16:28
Speaker 1: when you watch her in the video, when she's in
16:30
Speaker 1: the store, she is as calm as you could possibly be.
16:36
Speaker 1: There is absolutely no indication that something is making her anxious,
16:41
Speaker 1: that people are holding her hostage, threatening her, and it's
16:46
Speaker 1: very hard to imagine. Think about yourself, right, you're in
16:50
Speaker 1: a situation where you're saying that you know they have me,
16:54
Speaker 1: they won't let me go, and you're buying all these
16:56
Speaker 1: things and you're calm, your serene, like, oh, you know,
17:02
Speaker 1: nothing's going on. I'm about to go and have a
17:04
Speaker 1: good time. That just doesn't ring true to me. It
17:08
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense that somebody's holding her hostage and won't
17:12
Speaker 1: let her go. Nancy. Well, it doesn't make sense to
17:15
Speaker 1: me that she's writing that kind of a message sitting
17:18
Speaker 1: in her car, Nancy, unless she's part of some elaborate
17:21
Speaker 1: kidnapping hoax that ends in her own death. Go ahead.
17:24
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
17:28
Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star
17:31
Speaker 1: of a brand new hit series, and it is a hit,
17:35
Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. You can find it at
17:38
Speaker 1: all the podcast destinations. Jump in. Joe Scott. One of
17:41
Speaker 1: the things that you know, really struck me about that
17:43
Speaker 1: video where she's walking in the store, Nancy, is the
17:46
Speaker 1: fact that she's looking at her phone and it looks
17:48
Speaker 1: like she's responding or sending a text at that moment time.
17:51
Speaker 1: It's raised it's in her hand. She's focused on that
17:54
Speaker 1: and Dove tell them what Karen said. You know, she's
17:58
Speaker 1: not frenzied, she's paid, she's taking her time. You know,
18:02
Speaker 1: if a profiler looked at this, you know, like somebody
18:04
Speaker 1: from the FBI, you know they would. You know, when
18:06
Speaker 1: it comes to kidnapping, you have this level of stress
18:08
Speaker 1: at the kind of measure. You know they see, you know,
18:10
Speaker 1: tent stuff. That's not what you're seeing. She's actually manipulating
18:15
Speaker 1: her phone in some way. If people will just take
18:18
Speaker 1: a look at that, I'm wondering if those were not
18:20
Speaker 1: instructions or directions or something. You know, it's to going
18:24
Speaker 1: in to kind of purchase these items that seem so
18:27
Speaker 1: out of sorts in this environment, potentially telling her where
18:30
Speaker 1: to meet them. You know another thing I wouldn't know
18:33
Speaker 1: if any of you have noticed this. So let me
18:35
Speaker 1: go to you, Michael Luise joining us Fox needs a
18:38
Speaker 1: digital reporter, and that's him throwing all the questions at
18:41
Speaker 1: a lot of the questions to the Hammer Sam sheriffs,
18:44
Speaker 1: which they answered. I thought, really well, Michael Luise, have
18:48
Speaker 1: you noticed that in every single one of her pictures,
18:52
Speaker 1: everyone except the one where she got the big shiner
18:56
Speaker 1: where she said she fell. She has on full hair
19:00
Speaker 1: and makeup. Have you noticed that? That's a yes? No
19:05
Speaker 1: by the way, yes, yes, she looks very blackly together
19:08
Speaker 1: all the time. I knew you would not be able
19:09
Speaker 1: to did you go to law school by any chance,
19:12
Speaker 1: because I've never known a lawyer be able to answer
19:15
Speaker 1: with one syllable And you're following suit. But that's exactly
19:19
Speaker 1: what I was getting at. You got to my next question.
19:22
Speaker 1: She's always dressed up. She always has on perfect makeup.
19:25
Speaker 1: And if you look at her in this she's wearing
19:30
Speaker 1: her little visor. She's all fixed up. Do you see it?
19:35
Speaker 1: Her hair is done just like in all the pictures.
19:40
Speaker 1: So you want to tell me she gets a whole
19:43
Speaker 1: face of makeup and a whole head of hair done.
19:47
Speaker 1: If she's not going somewhere like I'm just saying, tellgating party,
19:51
Speaker 1: it could be anything. Where is she going somewhere that's
19:55
Speaker 1: going to be outdoors, That's what I'm saying. Okay, take
19:58
Speaker 1: a listen to more that press or that has just
20:01
Speaker 1: gone down in the last hours. One of the first
20:03
Speaker 1: questions that was asked is can you confirm the Venmo
20:05
Speaker 1: message from the daughter from mom? To daughter. Was sent
20:08
Speaker 1: to mom's phone. We're still waiting more information that we
20:12
Speaker 1: have requested to confirm or deny where the VENMO was
20:15
Speaker 1: sent from. But we can confirm that Amanda did receive
20:18
Speaker 1: the VENMO, he did receive money. That much we do
20:25
Speaker 1: know right now. Continuing on, next question was are you
20:31
Speaker 1: in possession of call your cell phone and where was
20:33
Speaker 1: it found? Yes, we are in possession of that cell phone.
20:36
Speaker 1: We do have it in evidence and it was located
20:39
Speaker 1: at the crime scene. They do have the phone. It
20:41
Speaker 1: was located at the crime scene. That was a really
20:44
Speaker 1: big question. We are talking about that VENMO message. Now
20:51
Speaker 1: you were hearing the Sheriff's office. Take a listen to this.
20:55
Speaker 1: We were again going back to the cell phone providers
20:58
Speaker 1: in search once we've done. We're working with multiple different
21:00
Speaker 1: cell phone providers to obtain necessary information. Are we know
21:03
Speaker 1: right now as far as the VENMO message is that, yes,
21:06
Speaker 1: it was sent to Amanda. There was a question in
21:09
Speaker 1: there as far as do we know where the money
21:12
Speaker 1: is now, No, we don't. For the simple fact that
21:16
Speaker 1: we are still obtaining information when it was sent, where
21:20
Speaker 1: it was sent, what device it was sent from. We're
21:23
Speaker 1: still trying to obtain that information right now, Okay, joining
21:27
Speaker 1: me right now is a digital forensics expert. He is
21:34
Speaker 1: also a private investigator and you can find him at
21:37
Speaker 1: ellington dot net. Derek Ellington joining us. What in the
21:44
Speaker 1: hay does that mean? Yes, Amanda got the message, Amanda
21:49
Speaker 1: Beard and the daughter, the adult daughter who just came
21:52
Speaker 1: back blue back into town two days before, and now
21:55
Speaker 1: her mom is murdered. How the how can she get
22:00
Speaker 1: the venmo but they don't know where the money is? Yeah, Nancy,
22:05
Speaker 1: So this is all very interesting. What the law enforcement
22:08
Speaker 1: has been talking about as far as tracking her location
22:10
Speaker 1: and looking at the phone, we know that they were
22:14
Speaker 1: able to do that and get cell tower data. What
22:17
Speaker 1: we also know is that they're working right now with
22:21
Speaker 1: Vinmo and the other online places to see what information
22:26
Speaker 1: that can get, including text messages and things like that.
22:29
Speaker 1: So that's the wealth of information I think for me,
22:34
Speaker 1: going back to that transaction is very interesting. Does it
22:37
Speaker 1: represent the sum total of money in her account? It's
22:41
Speaker 1: a very arbitrary amount. I know police are looking into that. Okay.
22:45
Speaker 1: My question is, and I agree with everything you just said,
22:47
Speaker 1: Derry Ellington. What I'm trying to figure out is what
22:52
Speaker 1: police mean Michael Ruise. What could they possibly mean that
22:57
Speaker 1: the money was transferred in this unique amount? As Renee
23:02
Speaker 1: Rockwell pointed out, somebody had to know that that money
23:04
Speaker 1: was in her account to make this Venmo happen. That
23:07
Speaker 1: amount of money nearly three grand. They know it was
23:10
Speaker 1: transferred to the adult daughter, Amanda Bearden, but they don't
23:15
Speaker 1: know where the money is. Now, what does that mean? Well? Right, well, oh, sorry, yeah,
23:21
Speaker 1: I just wanted to add one thing, Nancy. When they
23:24
Speaker 1: talked about confirming that it went to the daughter, I
23:27
Speaker 1: think what they're also confirming is that it had to
23:29
Speaker 1: have originated from her phone, the victim's phone. The mechanism
23:35
Speaker 1: that would have been required for a total stranger to
23:38
Speaker 1: access the Venmo account from a separate device would have
23:43
Speaker 1: would have been there have been a lot of security.
23:45
Speaker 1: Venmo isn't itself fairly secure, So we need to work
23:48
Speaker 1: with the theory that the transaction did originate from her phone. Okay,
23:53
Speaker 1: so my understanding, Jo Scott Morgan and Michael always hold
23:56
Speaker 1: that thought place. Joe Scott, if someone has your log
24:00
Speaker 1: in info, they can send Venmo money from your account.
24:07
Speaker 1: From Joe Scott Morgan's account, I can send money from
24:10
Speaker 1: your account. If I have to log in info from
24:12
Speaker 1: right here in the studio, I don't have to have
24:14
Speaker 1: your phone to do it. Yeah, that's my understanding. However,
24:17
Speaker 1: I think that you know, just as Derek had said,
24:22
Speaker 1: there are certain walls of security you have you have
24:25
Speaker 1: to answer certain questions in order to be able to
24:27
Speaker 1: facilitate that. And I think where this is kind of interesting.
24:33
Speaker 1: If you're talking about that something's going to originate from
24:35
Speaker 1: the phone, and it's going to originate from another location,
24:39
Speaker 1: you have to log off of that in order to
24:41
Speaker 1: log onto another one. And again this might go again
24:45
Speaker 1: to Derek's premise here that they have matching data that
24:49
Speaker 1: kind of matches it up relative to the position of
24:52
Speaker 1: the phone and relative to the Venmo account itself. Is
24:56
Speaker 1: there something some way these are kind of intertwined and
24:59
Speaker 1: tied together where they can go back and again, you know, listen,
25:02
Speaker 1: what did they say earlier she was specifically targeted. Maybe
25:07
Speaker 1: this is one of those little links in the chain
25:09
Speaker 1: that talks about this targeting that somebody has intimate knowledge
25:12
Speaker 1: of her. Michael Ruise, I think it's very clear that
25:17
Speaker 1: someone had her personal information that could have logged into
25:21
Speaker 1: her Venmo account. Is there any way under the sun
25:26
Speaker 1: that this woman sat in her car sent the Venmo
25:30
Speaker 1: account and as part of the sent of Venmo money transfer,
25:36
Speaker 1: and as part of that transfer wrote they won't let
25:39
Speaker 1: me go key to house in flower Pot? Does anybody
25:44
Speaker 1: really think she sent that from her phone in her
25:46
Speaker 1: car in a parking lot. The message is very confusing,
25:50
Speaker 1: But what's interesting is one of the last things of
25:52
Speaker 1: her cell phone is at the same time as the
25:56
Speaker 1: Venmo is sent. Now does that mean she sent to
25:58
Speaker 1: Venmore did something else with the phone? I don't know,
26:00
Speaker 1: and investigators haven't told me, but I guess it's a possibility. Guys,
26:04
Speaker 1: take a listen to this. As far as Steve working,
26:08
Speaker 1: we have pulled the video from Snova's bank where he
26:11
Speaker 1: stated that he was working that day because of being
26:13
Speaker 1: a UGA game. He works for a private company called
26:16
Speaker 1: the Optimist Club that private contracts Senovas Banks parking lot
26:21
Speaker 1: to park vehicles for the game day. They use that
26:23
Speaker 1: parking lot to provide parking for people coming to the game.
26:27
Speaker 1: We have confirmed that he was there from nine am
26:31
Speaker 1: to four of six pm on Saturday, So what Karen
26:35
Speaker 1: Stark was saying earlier is absolutely true. I think at
26:38
Speaker 1: this point, unless he's working with a partner, and I
26:41
Speaker 1: think there'll be a trail of evidence to that the
26:43
Speaker 1: husband is in the clear. He's about an hour away
26:47
Speaker 1: parking cars at a Sonova's Bank parking lot. Crime Stories
27:04
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. I want to circle back to what
27:12
Speaker 1: we know regarding that family dollar visit. Listen. I pulled
27:18
Speaker 1: the video footage from the store and talked with everybody
27:21
Speaker 1: from the store. Based off of that with Miss Collier,
27:27
Speaker 1: it was asked that if it might have if Amanda
27:31
Speaker 1: was in there earlier, and Amanda, based off of our
27:34
Speaker 1: knowledge at this time, there was some confusion there and
27:39
Speaker 1: the associate that worked there actually saw the mother and
27:43
Speaker 1: not the daughter. I was able to provide photos to
27:46
Speaker 1: that store clerk to confirm that based off of what
27:50
Speaker 1: we were told, and they told and she said no,
27:53
Speaker 1: I remember seeing the mother, not the daughter. What we
27:56
Speaker 1: can confirm we know the Amanda talked on the phone
27:59
Speaker 1: with her mother Saturday afternoon. The last time she spoke
28:04
Speaker 1: to her mom was on the phone. But Dan Michael
28:07
Speaker 1: Ruise joining us Fox News Digital, there have been a
28:10
Speaker 1: lot of confusion as to whether or not the adult
28:13
Speaker 1: daughter of baby calling or Amanda Bearden was in the
28:15
Speaker 1: family Dollar with her mother just before she's murdered. Apparently
28:19
Speaker 1: she was not there. Did she ever say she was there?
28:23
Speaker 1: Number one? And number two? What time do we think
28:29
Speaker 1: Amanda beard And spoke to her mother on the phone
28:33
Speaker 1: that Saturday, the day that she has murdered. Tiding of
28:35
Speaker 1: that phone call is a big question that I have
28:37
Speaker 1: as well. You know, maybe it took place during that
28:39
Speaker 1: ten minutes where she was sitting in the car. Maybe
28:42
Speaker 1: that's why she didn't drive out of the parking lot
28:44
Speaker 1: right away. And if you watched that video, she doesn't
28:46
Speaker 1: really clearly directly leave the parking lot. She kind of
28:49
Speaker 1: goes to the north end only to turn southbound. It's
28:52
Speaker 1: kind of like a meandering little exit there, which is
28:56
Speaker 1: kind of odd, almost like she's distracted and she doesn't
28:59
Speaker 1: want to drive. But I want to speculate on that
29:02
Speaker 1: in terms of Amanda being at that store. So actually
29:06
Speaker 1: we were told when we went and visited the clerk
29:09
Speaker 1: that the clerk saw Amanda, not Debbi. So we reached
29:13
Speaker 1: out to the law enforcement and they went and reinterviewed
29:15
Speaker 1: the clerks with photos and showed her and they checked
29:18
Speaker 1: the cameras and they confirmed it that it was Debbi,
29:21
Speaker 1: not Amanda who was in that store. Butce, I think
29:24
Speaker 1: that's where that confusion kind of grew out of gotcha
29:28
Speaker 1: jump in? What I keep coming back to is, of course,
29:30
Speaker 1: if you have the time to send a financial transaction,
29:34
Speaker 1: you've got time to call nine one one, You've got
29:37
Speaker 1: time to send a message for help. Is it possible
29:40
Speaker 1: that there's a level of extortion or threat and she
29:43
Speaker 1: went willingly to a point. That's a question we need
29:46
Speaker 1: to ask as well, because the police have said this
29:49
Speaker 1: isn't random. She had some type of connection with these people. Okay,
29:54
Speaker 1: So that would be essentially telling a woman who's in
29:58
Speaker 1: her car with her door was locked and her seat
30:01
Speaker 1: built on, do this or else? So her husband is
30:05
Speaker 1: out parking cars, where's the threat? Do this or else? What? Family?
30:15
Speaker 1: We don't know? Okay? That sounds far fetched to me. Uh,
30:18
Speaker 1: Michael Ruis, I'm understanding that all of the digital devices
30:27
Speaker 1: cell phones, laptops, iPads, the works have been seized and
30:34
Speaker 1: are being evaluated. Yes, no, yes, okay, So if there
30:38
Speaker 1: was evidence of a plot or a threat, unless it
30:42
Speaker 1: was over the phone and that call could be traced
30:46
Speaker 1: it's not. There's no digital imprint such as an email
30:49
Speaker 1: or text, is there not that we're aware of. But
30:52
Speaker 1: they also have kind of close to their chest. Correct,
30:56
Speaker 1: And okay, let me ask a question to Derek Ellington,
31:04
Speaker 1: digital forensics expert. Her cell phone was found. There was
31:09
Speaker 1: a lot of confusion about that. It was found not
31:12
Speaker 1: far from her dead body, but it was smashed. It
31:17
Speaker 1: had been smashed. That really means nothing because everything is
31:24
Speaker 1: most likely going to be found in the cloud. Yes, No,
31:27
Speaker 1: that is correct. Smash doesn't tell us a lot, Nancy.
31:31
Speaker 1: We get phones from plane crashes and car crashes all
31:35
Speaker 1: the time, and we have to repair them. But the
31:37
Speaker 1: police have two sources of data to work from. They
31:39
Speaker 1: have the cloud and then they have what we hope
31:41
Speaker 1: they can recover from the phone. It tells me one thing,
31:44
Speaker 1: Karen Start. It tells me a lot about the mind
31:46
Speaker 1: of the killer. They actually want to destroy evidence. So
31:51
Speaker 1: this is not some guy a hitchhike or she picks
31:56
Speaker 1: up who doesn't give up flying fig about her cell
32:00
Speaker 1: phone or anything about him being on that cell phone
32:04
Speaker 1: because it's not gonna be there. It's not some person
32:06
Speaker 1: she just met and was tricked into helping like somebody
32:09
Speaker 1: on the side of the road with a flat tire.
32:12
Speaker 1: Not really, This is someone who believes that in that
32:16
Speaker 1: cell phone is digital data that could implicate them. Get it,
32:20
Speaker 1: Karen Starr. I get it, Nancy. But what I also
32:23
Speaker 1: get is that there are things that they did to her,
32:27
Speaker 1: that happened that clearly can't be a hitchhiker on the
32:30
Speaker 1: side of the road. There's somebody who's very angry. Why
32:35
Speaker 1: else would they take off her clothes or have her
32:38
Speaker 1: take off her clothes, or try to burn her. It's
32:42
Speaker 1: there are things that don't make If you want to
32:46
Speaker 1: kill somebody quickly, this is not how you do it.
32:50
Speaker 1: This is too deliberate, this is anger. You are so right,
32:55
Speaker 1: I mean, we'ren rockwell. I've prosecuted a lot of murderers,
33:00
Speaker 1: spree murders, serial killers, mass murderers. You've defended a lot
33:06
Speaker 1: of them. It's gonna be a cold day in heblel
33:12
Speaker 1: that a random killer takes the time to take off
33:15
Speaker 1: her clothes unless they're going to rape her, to try
33:17
Speaker 1: to burn her body, to try to get rid of evidence,
33:20
Speaker 1: smash her cell phone, and leave the completely pristine car.
33:25
Speaker 1: Nothing in the car at all, not even a print
33:28
Speaker 1: that we know of. Okay, there's a mistaging what there
33:32
Speaker 1: is something in the car that we just don't know
33:36
Speaker 1: what it is. But what we do know is at
33:39
Speaker 1: some point when that message was sent, we're gonna find
33:44
Speaker 1: out what time the daughter received the message. And Nancy,
33:48
Speaker 1: if I ever send you twenty three dollars and tell
33:52
Speaker 1: you somebody's not going to let me go, not twenty
33:55
Speaker 1: three hundred, but twenty three dollars and tell you that,
34:00
Speaker 1: don't take hours to go looking for me or call
34:04
Speaker 1: the police. That's all. Oh, no, number one, I'd call
34:09
Speaker 1: nine one one right there. I'd locate your husband. Number two.
34:13
Speaker 1: You can count on that. And every one of the regards,
34:17
Speaker 1: there's a lot of them. Find out where they were.
34:21
Speaker 1: Then I'd put down a seance and call your mother
34:23
Speaker 1: in because I would need psychic health right then. Okay,
34:27
Speaker 1: Renee is absolutely right. The venmo in itself is an issue.
34:34
Speaker 1: Who gets three grand from their mom on a venmo?
34:38
Speaker 1: Or did she get three grand? Did it go to
34:40
Speaker 1: Amanda Bearden? But it went to somebody else's account. We
34:44
Speaker 1: don't know where the money. And I say, once you
34:48
Speaker 1: find the money, jump in. I wanted to say that
34:50
Speaker 1: that amount of money. What we don't know is she
34:54
Speaker 1: has a history of supposedly allegedly trying to getting money
35:00
Speaker 1: from her boyfriend, her living boyfriend, for drugs. Talking about
35:05
Speaker 1: the daughter, Rid yes, so perhaps this is not unusual
35:09
Speaker 1: where she's asking her mother for specific amounts of money.
35:13
Speaker 1: And I also want to add that in Benmo you
35:16
Speaker 1: can as long as it's your phone, they don't keep
35:20
Speaker 1: checking and saying, you know, show us proof of identity.
35:24
Speaker 1: You can just go on and send money from your account,
35:27
Speaker 1: you know, speaking of the grown daughter. Listen to our
35:31
Speaker 1: cut forty two. This is what we can't confirm. She
35:34
Speaker 1: lived in Maryland with her brother. She lived in I
35:37
Speaker 1: think the same apartment complex correct, with her brother up
35:42
Speaker 1: in Maryland, CDI, I can't tell. I can't tell you
35:45
Speaker 1: what the city is because I don't have my notes
35:47
Speaker 1: and stuff in front of me, but I do know
35:48
Speaker 1: it's Maryland. She moved down here on the eighth, which
35:52
Speaker 1: would have been Thursday, September of September eighth when she
35:56
Speaker 1: moved down here to Georgia, so we know she was
36:00
Speaker 1: down here at some point on Thursday. She gets into
36:03
Speaker 1: town on Thursday, and mom is dead on Saturday. In
36:11
Speaker 1: the middle of all of this line of investigation, and
36:16
Speaker 1: again no one has been named suspect or a press
36:19
Speaker 1: of interest. Now we have a mystery convict thrown into
36:26
Speaker 1: the mix. Take a listen to who we believe to be. Debbie.
36:31
Speaker 1: Call your sister, Diane Shirley calling nine one one. Yes,
36:36
Speaker 1: my name is Diane Shirley, and my sister lives in
36:41
Speaker 1: Georgia and my niece told me she was missing. Her
36:44
Speaker 1: name is Deborah, call youer or she could go by Debbie. Okay,
36:48
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if y'all have any information about it,
36:52
Speaker 1: as I mean, none other than with the officer or
36:55
Speaker 1: whoever is working in the case. I don't know anything. Um, okay,
37:01
Speaker 1: we're just not getting information. So I'm just yeah, I
37:06
Speaker 1: am really worried about my sister and you know what
37:10
Speaker 1: she Do you have an information where she might go
37:13
Speaker 1: or do you have anything to add From my knee,
37:16
Speaker 1: she said that she was in an act about a
37:20
Speaker 1: month ago and she was, you know, on the road.
37:24
Speaker 1: She was following this truck and this truck lost a
37:27
Speaker 1: paint can and the paint can hit my sister's car
37:30
Speaker 1: and the paint went everywhere and the driver was trying
37:34
Speaker 1: to convince my sister not to tell the cops that
37:38
Speaker 1: he was driving because he was out on parole and
37:42
Speaker 1: there was, you know, a sipulation to his parole that
37:44
Speaker 1: he couldn't drive. You think that was told to anybody else? Well,
37:49
Speaker 1: you think that was told to the officer that concern.
37:51
Speaker 1: That's standing from my Nie, that's the understanding from my niece,
37:55
Speaker 1: Amanda Bearding. So, Michael Luisa, information about the mystery convict,
38:00
Speaker 1: that's coming from the adult daughter a man a beard
38:03
Speaker 1: And yes, no, yes, Well was a report ever filed?
38:06
Speaker 1: I'm thinking yes, because she Debbie took her car in
38:12
Speaker 1: to get it fixed. That's why she had her mental car,
38:15
Speaker 1: so to get insurance to pay for it. I assume
38:17
Speaker 1: you normally follow a police report and that would have
38:19
Speaker 1: the convict's name on it. Absolutely, and we have a
38:23
Speaker 1: copy of it, and we reached out to the guy,
38:25
Speaker 1: and I don't see any indication that he is this
38:29
Speaker 1: X con. I think that that is a mischaracterization that
38:34
Speaker 1: somehow got to Diane Shirley. Let me ask you, was
38:37
Speaker 1: that what happened a can of paint fell off a truck.
38:39
Speaker 1: So the report that I have doesn't say specifically that
38:42
Speaker 1: it was a can of paint. But it does say
38:43
Speaker 1: that equipment fell off the back of a truck hit
38:46
Speaker 1: Debbie's car and caused the accident, And nothing about him
38:49
Speaker 1: being an x con. Nothing about him being an x con.
38:51
Speaker 1: He had insurance. They went through it like that. He
38:53
Speaker 1: got a couple of citations, but nothing that put him
38:58
Speaker 1: in prison or in jail or violated any kind of
39:00
Speaker 1: parole that we could find. Yeah, Renee Rocco, have you
39:03
Speaker 1: ever heard of a parole condition? Well, Nancy, he could
39:07
Speaker 1: be bond, can't drive. He could be on bond with
39:11
Speaker 1: the stipulation do not drive, do not drive, Nancy. Wouldn't
39:16
Speaker 1: that be as a result of a bitual violator or
39:19
Speaker 1: a DUI? I mean, have you ever seen that other
39:21
Speaker 1: than an impairment defense? Yeah, vehiculo homicide, do not drive? Now,
39:27
Speaker 1: I know I just said that. I'm asking you that
39:30
Speaker 1: focus in any other kind of case other than vehiculo homicide,
39:35
Speaker 1: habitual violator or DUI. Have you ever heard of a
39:38
Speaker 1: probationer or a PAROLEI being told don't drive? Yeah, just
39:42
Speaker 1: driving under suspension? Don't drive? Okay. So I'm gonna take
39:45
Speaker 1: that as a no, which means that story doesn't make sense. Typically,
39:52
Speaker 1: parole and Probation wants you to drive to work and
39:56
Speaker 1: a church and to see your probation or your parole
39:58
Speaker 1: officer again. No one has been named as a suspect
40:02
Speaker 1: or even a person of interest. We wait as justice unfolds.
40:07
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crimes story, signing off, goodbye Frank