Latest / Follow the Leighder / From Cult Upbringing to Combat Veteran | Ben C. (@pressxprepeat)

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From Cult Upbringing to Combat Veteran | Ben C. (@pressxprepeat) · Follow the Leighder

• Leigh/@followtheleighder: Howdy folks, and welcome back to another episode of Follow the Leader. I'm your host, Lee Larson, and joining me from Florida today, Ben Candalora. Thank you. Ben: Hi Lee, how you doing? Leigh/@followtheleighder: Welcome. I'm I'm all right. I I'm enjoying the sunshine, but so are you down in Florida. Folks, listen, Ben is an impressive, impressive person. If you haven't found him already online as Press X Repeat, real big, particular I found him on Instagram, but he's also on threads. combat veteran taking his voice online for advocacy, advocating for veterans who we know. can't speak for themselves while in uniform. What you have done over the past couple months that I've been following you, I know this has been longer, you've given a voice in a very calm I mean, of course I've seen you get a little frustrated, of course, but but but you have that calm, honest authenticness to you, authenticity. And clearly you have your military experience. Can you talk about just your your journey into social media. How did that that start? Ben: So, like I said, before we started, I was a photographer before all of this, sports photographer. my girlfriend and I had just moved down to Florida and started a sports photography business. And I was working in high schools, doing a lot of wrestling photography, stuff like that. And then Charlie Kirk got shot. And my town decided they were gonna try to change the name of a road to Charlie Kirk Boulevard. So my girlfriend and I went to the meeting, we both spoke and the young Republicans group in the area doxxed my business and got got us banned from some of the high schools. Some parents were sending us messages. Yeah, it was a whole thing. So around that time I had been despite posting little videos like in the gym with layovers, text layovers. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Very nice. Ben: But I when the Charlie Kirk thing happened, like I saw the response to his rhetoric, people framing him as this Christian patriot, right? And like the cult upbringing. It set off all the alarm bells. Like it's the same, the same patterns over and over again. So I spoke about it in the gym. And between that and then my girlfriend's speech, they both went viral. And from there, I just kept going. Leigh/@followtheleighder: for you. Wow. that must have been terrifying to to go up against such an overwhelming audience that wanted one direction. That's incredibly courageous of you and your girlfriend. Thank you both. Ben: You would have been surprised though, the like in the town hall meeting only like two or three people spoke for it. Everybody else was against it. So they they voted it down in the end, but yeah. Leigh/@followtheleighder: That's particularly interesting that it was voted down and it you know, largely wasn't supported, but yet you were so acutely targeted as if y you were somehow responsible in his death by not wanting to commemorate a school. Like that's a very strange response for them. Ha go ahead. Ben: It well it wasn't even just like a single road. there was a business owner in the area who posted something on Facebook. I don't even remember what the original comment was. It wasn't celebratory. It was more like indifference about Charlie Kirk's death. I'm gonna keep looking at my screen. I'm not sure how this is gonna work. Leigh/@followtheleighder: You're fine. You're all good. Ben: Yeah, it w it was it wasn't celebratory, it was just indifference. And the mayor specifically was trying to change about a two hundred fifty foot stretch of road directly in front of her house to Charlie Kirk Boulevard. Yeah. So it was it was a weaponized use of his position. Vindictive, it was corrupt. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Mm. Absolutely. And and and this is the thing that started to get you more more public online and and vocal. You you served in the military. Was your family military? How did you what how what brought you into the military? And and and talk about actually before we get into the military, what was your upbringing prior to that? Ben: so I was raised homeschooled Christian. very traditional Christian. the women weren't allowed to work. men were the only people who spoke in the church, like arranged marriages, no dating. It was it was a cult pretty much. yeah, so I was in that for about fifteen years, I'd say. I don't remember exactly when we joined. I know I was incredibly young, probably four or five, somewhere in that range. Yeah, so that was my pretty much toddler till eighteen year old experience. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Was that in a rural setting or urban or where was like rural main or like I've Ben: Yeah, it was in Maine. about fifteen miles over the border, Fabrig Fair is pretty close to it. So like main and New Hampshire border. I worked in New Hampshire for a while actually as a waiter. Right before I joined the army. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Okay. Okay. Yeah. So was the army a way to to to get out or or like how did you find the military? Or was that part of the theology of the the group? Like did the group support and emphasize military and was that a prominent part? Really? Ben: Yeah, it was it was No, absolutely not. No. They they discouraged anybody leaving going anywhere. It was it was sheltered. It was you didn't associate with people outside of the church. It was it was meant to trap you pretty much. 'Cause I know for me and a lot of the other kids that ended up leaving, Like it's you don't know anything about the real world. Nothing. Basic training was the biggest culture shock of my life. Like Yeah, for me it was just a way out, honestly. It was a it was a snap decision. I had I had been flirting with the idea for like since nine eleven basically. I remember nine eleven vividly, we were homeschooled. I don't know, just seeing the towers, everything that happened that day, that I fell for it. Like the whole Leigh/@followtheleighder: Absolutely. Ben: These people are our enemies, we have to we have to get all, right? So when I was eighteen, had just turned eighteen not too long ago. Stupid. Everything that we did, like online, everything every video game that we played, anything like that was very closely monitored. And we had snuck behind our parents' back to rent an army of two from Blockbuster for my brother's PS. I think it was a PS three at the time. And while we were at work, they went through our room. I was eighteen and he was like twenty two or twenty three at the time. So it's like you you also didn't leave your parents' home until you were married. Yeah, they went through our room, took all of our stuff. Like I had a little P S P, they took the PlayStation, they took the T V, like restricted our internet access. So I got in my car and I drove to the recruiter station and I pretty much signed the paperwork right there. Yeah. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Well and then you Right. Well and I mean you s you saw you talk about falling for it. I mean that's what they wanted. I mean, you have a global superpower shoving media imagery down like all of us went with it. Most most, but it's it it was incredibly motivating and an moving for a lot of people to join, particularly millennials. I mean, we we we were children and we watched that and they Unfortunately, like I said, I mean, they kept those videos and images going. Like on TV was just so in our faces and how could you not feel called to do I mean, like it's it's it's real. I when you joined, I know that there is some time between you know, the day you go to the recruiter's office and and when you go to boot camp and you join the army. Ben: Mm-hmm. Leigh/@followtheleighder: What how did you prepare for this time? 'Cause I also know that you did some some engineering experience. Like what what did it look like to prepare to leave that world? 'Cause that must have been A exciting and liberating but also terrifying. Ben: I think you're talking about my combat engineer. That was my MOS in the army. Leigh/@followtheleighder: excuse me. Well, I just meant this I'm so sorry. But I meant between that time between like going to boot camp and like leaving your family in this world that you knew, there must have been some like excitement but also fear of leaving some of did or did you maybe how what was it like to finally be in that space? Ben: Yeah. I was definitely anxious. Preparing I watch a lot of YouTube. I know I watched a lot of army videos. Like a lot I watched a lot and to the point where I probably overhyped myself up because like ends up you look back on it and it was like it was nothing. But at the time as an eighteen year old kid, it was like, my god. Especially like from the Colt situation. it wasn't very long. so we were all homeschooled and Leigh/@followtheleighder: Okay. Okay. Ben: I don't remember the exact occurrences that led to this, but I never finished getting my degree, getting homeschooled. So the recruiter had to help me get the GED, like help me through the entire process, brought me to go schedule it, did everything. so that was what we did in between, pretty much. Just get the GED, make sure everything was ready to go. I think it was like maybe two months. I I know it was I think it was June eighteenth, two thousand eight, June sixteenth, two thousand eight, something like that. It was it was like a week after my birthday, I know that much. I'll cut that part out. I don't want people to know my birthday. I didn't mean to let that slip. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Okay, all right, I will all right, let me mark that. Okay. I just marked it. so okay, so you join and you talked about basic being, you know, just this completely different experience. what was that also I mean, like, but then you also and I don't want to go too deep into the experiences, but you have Quite a number of waves during your military experience where you were engaged, exposed, or working amongst people who certainly weren't from your childhood cult. What was that like to to be surrounded to go from such an extreme? Ben: Are you talking specifically basic, like going into basic from the cold or like the whole experience? Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah, we can start with basic. Yeah. Yeah, we can start with basic. Ben: Honestly I think socially being brought up in that environment puts you at such a disadvantage. It took me it took me years to just learn racial basic cultural cues. Like the fact that I'm on this podcast right now is like big for me. All through college, I would get letters of accommodation so I didn't have to speak in front of people, like do class projects. I didn't have to present, like So the social media in part is just an evolution of that that change, that that learning I guess. Learning to be Something other than what they wanted you to be, I guess. I don't know. Still deconstructing a lot of that. Leigh/@followtheleighder: For sure, for sure. Well and and that's like I mean like you're talking, there are so many people. can you can you tell folks where Army basic training is held? a little bit and just like how long that is? Ben: there's a there's a few different places. So I was a combat engineer. so I went to Fort Leonardwood, that's a home of the engineers, it's in Missouri. I did one station unit training. so that was you sign up, you go to basic, and then you jump right into your job training or AID job training. so I think it was 17, 18 weeks, 19 weeks, somewhere around there. I'd have to look up my ERB to know for sure. and we had a weekend off between basic training and AIT, which was unusual. It just fell on a holiday weekend, so we had a four day weekend. So that extended it a little bit. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah. Ben: I know I got there in June and I left in October. Leigh/@followtheleighder: And in that time, did you again, coming from your faith and your and your belief background, when you got to the military, were you trying to go to church? Were you exploring or where were you now that you had left one environment or a new? Okay. Ben: I did. So I went to I went to church in basic for the prime reason to get out of the barracks. but I have at least one vivid memory of breaking down in tears during one of those church services in basic training and it was just it was I don't know. I don't know what it was, but just being in that environment, I don't I don't think I actually went back to a regular church service after that. I looked into like the alternate different types of services they had, which I just s saw the other day. They took a bunch of religions off the DOD's approved list. Yep. Leigh/@followtheleighder: So being able, we're that's a very common reason to go to church is to leave the barracks, get out of work, all sorts of things. You talk about going to this church and having a moving experience and then exploring. Was not necessarily the moving experience, but did you ever feel like the military either how did the military handle faith in basic training? I guess from what you saw. Ben: Yeah. They it they had to I mean I joined I was six months after President Obama first came into office. So a lot of regulations were changing actively while I was in, like hazing was starting to be gotten rid of, access to access to church services, like they're being more regulatory with it, I guess, more progressive. I after basic I didn't I didn't really touch religion. I I I I became strictly atheist and extremely bitter towards religion for the longest time. And I I mean I still I still am to a point, but only when I when I talk about people who are using it for the bad reasons. Like I understand religion has its place. I may not agree with all of it, but I understand it has its place. Yeah, so I couldn't really speak on how the military handled that. I stayed away from it. I know there was they do the the prayers before every mission, prayers before every ceremony. I'd I'd be the one that never put their head down or I'd walk away from the prayer. I just didn't I want nothing to do with it. Yeah. Leigh/@followtheleighder: No, I don't and I don't blame you. I just I I didn't know if like the army or just that there was any sort of pressure to go to any sort of worship service or like but it does sound like it was just a different time. Like you said, this was what you know. Ben: Yeah, when I I I I think I lucked out with that period of service and then I got out of active duty the year before Trump's first turn. And then I went to the Colorado National Guard, so And I was in the Colorado National Guard pretty much his entire first term. And that's what point then then I got medically retired out of there. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Well Ben: Yeah, I think I lucked out 'cause we didn't get any of the too much of the policies like the the stuff that they're pushing now, the Christian nationalism and all that. Leigh/@followtheleighder: And that makes sense. And did you find like you you said that you were strictly against faith, that you went straight atheist? Did you find other folks, other soldiers that were atheists with you? Did you find any sort of like what was that looking like? Okay. Ben: Very few. Very few. especially like I mentioned the prayers before missions, like that would be the the least. Usually you just make me maybe one other person. I don't know. I think well well from what I've experienced, especially after the military, with veterans and who go through PTSD or something like that, a lot of them turn to becoming hardcore religious people. And I think because of my upbringing, because of what I went through as a child, the whole institutionalized that whole that whole thing just never has been an option to me. So Leigh/@followtheleighder: That make sense that the the the concept was just harmful, the the the way it was presented. And especially like you said, to feel alone, like and not have an other atheist in your support. Did you feel I know that you went from such an extreme environment of this cult to the military, now it's very diverse, but it's also kind of also its own cult thing going on too. did you find Ben: yeah. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Was there like a sort of safety you felt early on in the military with the structure, the cult similarities? Ben: absolutely. Yeah. Florida, the move to Florida right before the Charlie Kirk thing, like I I had been here a year before the Charlie Kirk thing. And in that year, that was the first time pretty much my entire life that I hadn't been either in some sort of an institution or stuck in an area, stuck in a I don't know, I'm a big believer in in energy. And Colorado, like I I spent fifteen years there, I deployed three times out of there. Same town. Like I had so many friends come and go because military, you know. I don't know, Colorado just seemed to have a block for my mental health. That's another aspect of a lot of why I talk now because I was just never in the headspace to before. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah. Yeah. Ben: I don't know. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah, and there was just such a sense of also trying to like sift through too. That is such a hard part is once you start talking, it's like word vomit and then it's like sifting through what happened where 'cause it's almost like a file cabinet of papers has just been tossed up in the air and it's like figure it out. And it's really jarring and that's a A lot of work. I know that Colorado also gets heralded as like this veteran's paradise and when you're there and it's not the paradise that's oof. That Ben: Better than here, I'll say that much, for sure. One hundred percent, yeah. I mean Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yes. Ben: I don't know. The the VA is one hundred percent better in Colorado. It's less it's less virtue signaling and actual care, you know. See that a lot down here in Florida. Like the we love our veterans and all that, but when it comes time to actually do anything. I my experience every experience I've had with the VA since I got down here has been horrible. That is one thing I do miss about Colorado, the VA and skiing. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah. Yeah. And the hiking. The outfit. Did you do some hiking? Ben: Yeah, well I did like the first six, seven years I was there. around the time that I got out of active duty, one of the reasons I got out is my my back was just it was it was bad. I couldn't even put a ruck on and take like three or four steps without collapsing and I'd spent my entire time in the military maxing my runs and I was at the point where I was losing two to three minutes on a single run just because my back was giving out. Yeah, I figured go to school at that point. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah. and and and the toll, like you were talking about the rocking the the maxing out this like truly like giving so much of your yourself as your your breaking down. can you talk about I know that you went on on three deployments. What what made you like leave or like what was was there a political event or was it just like a sort of like I'm done? Ben: So at the time, I've changed a lot over the years at the time I got out because deployments were slowing down and I enjoyed deployments. Like if I could have spent my entire d time deployed, I would have. It's life was life was easier. And like I was yeah. That's the best way to put it. Life was easier. I'm not sure how it was in the Air Force, but there's a lot of a lot of service members who when given that I don't know, that mission, that that that singular goal, right? That's when they really lock in. And for me, deployment was that I think I love deployment, no distractions. Yeah. Leigh/@followtheleighder: When when you were deployed was so it's it's such a unique thing because like you said, the virtue signaling or just like the we love our troops, but there's also this very romanticized idea that people are putting themselves in situations all for their country. And yes, that's true in theory, but really y when you're in that situation, you're you're in there and you're going for the person next to you and you are bonded by these people. What did it look like as h how did it look like to bond? Were you talking about faith? Were you talking about families? Like how how do those those bonds form? Ben: Experiences, really. I think that's the the one thing the people that you had the most experiences with are the ones that you end up I don't know. keeping in touch with I guess. 'Cause for me, like I only have two or three people that I still talk to from the military. And that was twelve years. Twelve years and two or three people. you form you form friend groups and all that too, especially as single soldiers, like you have the the group of friends you go out with, or the the guys you go to the gym with. It's it's if it it it varies. But I'd say the biggest, the one biggest thing would be the guys that you had the experiences with. Leigh/@followtheleighder: You you Ben: And I say guys because at the time my MOS was all male. Like there was no there was no women allowed in my MOS when I was in. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Well, and your point about deploying because it's so simple is not an isolated point. I knew and cared deeply for someone who had been on twenty-five deployments because of that same mentality. And or something like that. It was in between twenty-two and twenty-five. But my point being it was he said the same thing. I could just lo I was good at my job. I and I liked being good at that job. And when I was not at that job. Ben: Yep. Leigh/@followtheleighder: I wasn't really that good at other things. Like it was like I felt like, you know, I love my kids, but I was an inadequate fall like I don't like you don't know what you're doing as a parent and like you don't know like it's just like all these things that are in mundane real world you have to make decisions about constantly and emotional like things and I I just I could deploy and be one I just lock in. And but unfortunately, he got neck and back jumping out of planes, all sorts of issues. Ben: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Leigh/@followtheleighder: the the the memories you bring back, you also become a different person every time you come and go and it it winds up cre Ben: You don't realize it at the time though. I didn't realize it until well Florida. Florida was really the the catalyst. Yeah. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Really. Really. So even though you went on three deployments, there wasn't like did you feel like the first time like whoa? Or like were you just like that was awesome? Or what was what Ben: I didn't I don't think I recognized 'cause at the time it was like, okay, that diploma's done. Train for the next one. And it was just never it was a cycle. You you come back from deployment, you go on training cycle, you go to an employment cycle. And it was when Afghanistan they were pushing they were doing the surge in Afghanistan was right when I joined, right? As Afghanistan was drawing down or Iraq was drawing down, I never had to go to Iraq. Yeah. I don't know, I didn't realize the mental toll really. 'Cause at the time when you're going through all that stuff, you don't think about it in that way. You just think about my life sucks. Once you get out of that mindset and you clear all those hurdles, you look back on it, and that's when you start to well, for me at least, that's when I start to construct how it all happened. I guess. I don't know. All of this is very new to me. Talking about mental health because growing up anything to do with mental health was an evil spirit. So that was you you didn't have anything wrong with your your mental health. I remember I told this story on a reel, I think. I remember my my aunt was dating or married a guy. We didn't know him that well. They invited him to the church and they did the whole laying of hands, casting out of spirits thing on him. And he was a paranoid schizophrenic. And he started rolling around on the floor, throwing chairs around, growling like it all the kids were getting shuttled into the side room. And at the time, they said, Proof. There it is. We cast out the evil spirit. He murdered my aunt like six months later. Looking back, seeing and thinking about that whole situation and understanding mental health, like That poor guy, in that situation at least, like they surround him with eight or ten people that he doesn't know. I don't know. It's it's all it's all been a f a flood of understanding, at least for the mental health aspect. Leigh/@followtheleighder: And and and piecing together this this call to to be of service to like you said, you were inspired to be a hero. Like so so many other how many boys were inspired to be a hero by nine eleven? And then you go and get the video games behind their back 'cause you want adventure, you want something beyond this community and you go have it and it winds up also having its own effects, but You don't get to see that until the end because you've locked in, you found this purpose and and and you also, like you said, those those relationships that you found too. How sorry to Ben: Yeah. That was a whole nother deconstruction pr deconstruction process in itself. The relationships like the Yeah, 'cause like in the military a lot of people I don't know, you know them for Leigh/@followtheleighder: The friendships? Ben: at work and deployments, you don't really know they're true. I mean the amount of people I just found out like crazy stuff about after deployments and the people who don't even talk to me anymore just because of political beliefs, like it's it's Once you I guess once all the other stuff is out there, once all the other distractions are there, once you're allowed to have an opinion, it it shows the real the real colours. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah, it is. And that's a a testimony to the military that the military functions by dehumanizing its workforce. Like you don't get to be an opinionated vocal human. You don't you do what you're told. And again, there's a lot of safety in that. There's a lot of structure. You don't question anything, you don't have to worry. There's also clear good guys and bad guys. and when you threaten that or kind of like what you're saying, go online and start challenging the nuance of it. I don't I haven't heard you say anything outright as such as like down with America or something like that, but you have push back at institutional policies that are causing harm and leadership that the rhetoric is is taking a certain direction that you don't support. And I appreciate that. Have you I know you you've you've come Ben: No. Leigh/@followtheleighder: you're you've grappled with a lot of hate, rejection and otherwise, you know, negative feedback. Have you found folks to to tell you how much they've in you've inspired them or how you've helped or or what has that been like in the positive? Ben: I ha I get so many messages like that and I feel bad because I I I can't open messages. If I open messages that means I've committed to having a conversation and and I don't wanna do that unless I actually have the time to dedicate to it. So I have every now and then I'll put up a real where I'll I'll just thank everybody in bulk because yeah, I I have so many messages like that. It's honestly been a lot of the reason. It's been so I don't know, I don't I don't wanna say easy. It's been natural just to go with it. I don't know. It's and from all over the world too. Like I I just talked about this morning. a video that I had put up about Iran months ago is all of a sudden gaining traction again. And I checked and it has like eleven point four or five or something like that percent interaction from Iran. and it was the first time I had seen anything like that. And it was all the same comments like thank you for for posting this video or whatever and it's just yeah, that helps a lot. It's frustrating though. It gets frustrating because there is One, I don't know. It it it feels like a a game a lot of the times. Like you have to you have to know the hooks, you know, have you have to have all the the pieces on the screen to keep the viewer engaged. Like it's a lot of work, honestly. but it's repetitive, at least that's the way it's felt in the nine months that I've done it. It just feels like the same thing. And that's Partly because of this administration. is everything is repetitive. And then my own procrastination being new to all this. I'm I'm trying now with the camera and everything to get everything structured down and just make it more official instead of just a random guy walking with a a phone, you know. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Well, it it certainly looks official and you're not just a random guy walking around with a phone and I'm not surprised that you're getting these overwhelming messages because just by naming harms without even going deep into the details of sharing, you know, these these the wounds themselves, as you just shared with me. I mean, you don't have the language or the wherewithal until you need it. And that's a really scary place to be. And to have someone like you online that is like giving language to certain things, can honestly just be the door to a whole other path of healing. So again, not surprised that you're you're seeing the the positive feedback and and and and you know as well as others that a lot of that negative feedback Yes, people have different political ideologies. Okay, but a lot of the hate too is is projection. Like they can't afford to question and challenge it it it shows more about your growth. And that's a scary and isolating place to be too. Is is healing is also isolating and that sucks. Like Ben: The the thing that benefits me a lot is I've been I've I've self is isolated myself for p I don't know what year are we in now, twenty twenty six? About six years basically. I don't I don't have a friend group. I don't I don't like going out. I don't like being I I I hate being in groups of people, I hate being in crowds, that's why like When I first started doing this, like I got all excited and I I ran off to Chicago and spent a week there, or a weekend there documenting ice with my camera 'cause I figured I have the experience. Like I I used the GI Bill to get a photography degree. I spent the weekend there and then not long after went to DC for a weekend and after that I was wiped out. Like I overestimated. my my preparedness, my readiness to to be at that point, you know, where I 'cause I wanna I do wanna get there. That's a lot of the reason I signed up on the podcast. That was one of the things that I've I've been avoiding because it challenges my challenges my isolation really, I guess, 'cause I I you do get tired of it. and I spent a lot of it in in a a really bad bad place. So Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah. Well, again, thank you for for trusting me and and trusting this audience. And like you said, I mean, these conferences, those creator and you see it online and you wanna be there and it's like where the action is. And I get it. I I live in Montana. Like I watch all these urban con creator conferences all the time. And and there is that pool. I also feel the same way where I I'll go into cities and then be like, whoa I haven't even touched the conference yet. They the city itself, from the airport to the hotel, I'm like, here we go. But but I think that's that that yes, I hope that you continue seeking to get your message more public. Like if the mission is to bring the message forward, then I hope maybe you know that will that will drive you. It sounds like it is. but there's also so much Ben: I'm trying. Leigh/@followtheleighder: There's so much space f to be where you and your skills and your your s your your level is. And there's so much wonder like 'cause when you do start joining those things, yes, you grow and I I want you to go but like also right now and where you are, you're in total control of everything. And that must be really nice after time. Ben: It doesn't feel that way, trust me. It does not feel that way. I'm I'm s like we weren't even allowed to have social media growing up. my first Facebook was when I was in the military in two thousand eight. Leigh/@followtheleighder: No well, no. Ben: Yeah, I don't know. It's this is all of this is completely new to me. Even after the military, those f four to five years or whatever that I just like stayed in Colorado and rotted basically. yeah, I was not doing this. I was just playing video games and drinking and going to college. That was all I was doing for like four years straight. Well, longer than that, but the guard wasn't part of that too. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah. Do you feel like you were talking about partying, do you feel we've talked about the military changing in in so many different ways. Do you feel like it grew you up? Like you it particularly like basic and like or do you feel like it further separate you you talked about living in the cult, like you already felt like you didn't understand the world. Then you get into the military, which is close to the world, but it's still not the the world because the military is a world in itself. So you said in the last year or so you've been learning learning the world and learning where you fit there, learning your voice and growing into that. has got to be intimidating and a little bumpy. Ben: the military for where I came out of, I think it was good for like a just big shock to my system. Like, okay, I just drop you in the boiling pot, the melting pot. And I think that was beneficial for me, just to expand my views a little bit. I didn't my time in active duty I didn't get involved with politics, obviously. Same thing with after the after in the Colorado National Guard. You can you can't really touch it. I post it privately, I'm on private Facebook. But during the Colorado National Guard, I started going to school in Denver for graphic design at a liberal arts college. And that experience going into that space was what really made me start to see things from a different light. Yeah. I th all through the military I would say if you talked to me in the military, I would probably have acted like a Republican easily. I wouldn't say MAGA Republican, but 'cause we were we were raised Republican. We watched Fox News growing up, but looking back, I actually don't even know. Maybe it was the same propaganda that they have now. I have no no idea. But my family always voted Republican. Leigh/@followtheleighder: But yeah. Ben: Yeah, it was a liberal arts school, which I'm sure all the everyone that loves to blame the colleges for woke indoctrination will love to hear that. Leigh/@followtheleighder: I mean, they'll they'll blame the liberal arts school for indoctrination while we just talked about the military's indoctrination. So it's like, yeah, but but the I I think yes, there's a lot that like the ideologies you're now exposed to, the different people, like the different, but I also really like that inherently in graphic design creativity, like you're creative. You're now you're expressing. And it doesn't surprise me that Ben: Yeah. Leigh/@followtheleighder: It almost seemed like you could have put your crew in an arts program and you might have been quote unquote more liberal by the end of it just because you got to express and and wrestle with some things as well. Maybe I don't know. But that there is a sort of individuality that comes out in creativity, it a creative expression that that isn't there's just a lot of that's cool. Almost in some weird life therapy like way that you got this program. Ben: The graphics design. I hated the graphic design to be honest. I ended up going back for the photography degree because I had to take a I had to take an intro to a photography class and the VA bought me a a a small little canning camera to use. And I did the graphics design because as a kid I I started playing around with Adobe Photoshop doing like graphics for sports sports forums back in the day when people would go on forums and talk to each other. Yeah. So when I got out of the military I was like, Well, I'd I like that, so I'll try that. Ended up I hated it. I just hated sitting at a desk all day and here I am sitting at a desk all day. Leigh/@followtheleighder: But it's it's it's about that individual creative expression, I think. And that's what's so just to hear hear your story, like the the journey over this this conversation. It's like this person who just kept running from like the chains of cult mentality until finally they got the medium to express themselves and then be like, Ugh, this is my story, this is what I believe in, these are the problems I have with the world 'cause guess what? There's a lot of And it's it's really it's empowering, it's beautiful and it's it's deeply human. Ben: Yeah. Leigh/@followtheleighder: You Utah. Ben: I I I made but honestly, like when I first went to that school, I remember like the first two weeks I was there, I remember they had a safe space room. And at the time I remember I I I like I kind of laughed at it. But I don't know I remember exactly how much longer into the degree I was, but I was sitting in the veterans room, the locked veterans room, separate away from everyone else, and I had this moment of realization I am sitting in my safe space. And I enjoy it and it's good for me. Like it's it's helping me with my homework and I don't know, just exposing yourself to all those different viewpoints and I put I I chose theology class as an elective just so I could learn more about all world religions and that that's what kind of brought me back to the spirituality aspect of my life and just nothing organized. well it laid the groundwork I would say. Yeah, cut that w that college was The jumping off point. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah. Well, you you talk about having your back injury. How has the recovery been like recently? Are you you active? Are you still doing some PT? What is how are you doing physically? Ben: So the back I've had steroid shots. I've had physical therapy. they burned off the nerve endings in my in because it's my sciatica too. So they burned off the nerve endings in that area. So when it was pinching, I wouldn't feel it. but all that stuff is temporary, it goes away. It's just a treatment plan. they've talked about surgery, but it's not guaranteed to work and as of now, as long as I don't put a load under my back, I don't stand for too long. I can lean back in my chair. like I go to the gym, I don't do cardio, I can't run. If I I I might be able to get on a bike, but only if my back is supported on the bike, so like a seated bike. It's manageable. It's just there are a lot of I can't say I wanna run, so I'm not too mad about that. Yeah. It's not too bad. It has its good days and its bad days. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah. You you you talk about the VA differences between Colorado and Florida. and that is a a constant conversation or a topic I see you bringing up is VA coverage, VA experience, accessibility. because when there's any sort of withdrawal or just any sort of major change that restricts people's access to the VA, as you know, you're you're very reliant on that. it's Life changing. I mean, you it's it's that is how you get medical services. it it does feel like that falls in line with this pattern of the military like using and discarding its its troops. Is that a sentiment that you feel? Like do you have any sort of anger or frustration with the mil like how like when you think about it, what does that feel like? Ben: I I've had very different sp experiences at the VA. Colorado, great for the most part. Some little bad experiences, but It all comes down to if they're giving the system the tools it needs to succeed. and that hasn't been a priority recently. I I don't even use it anymore. I got off VA healthcare. I I I was medically retired so I can ha I have tri care through the DOD or whatever it is. because of like the surgery that I just recently had on my shoulder. the VA misdiagnosed me like two or three times down here, put me into therapy, I did PT for like a couple of weeks. It was they put shots into it. It was it was a horrible deal the an entire ordeal. But at right towards the end of it they made me drive up to Orlando just to read me an R I. Like they could have done it over the phone and that's like an hour drive for me. I was not happy about it. Came home, called tri care 'cause I'd never set it up 'cause I didn't I'm I'm I'm a hundred percent through the VA as well, so all my healthcare is covered through them. I just never bothered. I was like, I don't need it. But man, ever since I got down here. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah. Ben: Soon as I set up my track care within like a month I had my diagnosis, my surgery date, yeah. And it was yeah, good to go. Yeah, I d I don't I don't I feel bad because this is part of the fr frustrating thing that I was saying earlier, the repetitive thing like There are just so many people who just either don't care about their benefits or they think they're safe just because the administration appeals to some other aspect of their their beliefs. And it's frustrating to watch because you talk about these stories. And I think the the veteran stories are the ones that I get the most blowback on, honestly. Like the most people getting defensive. And it's it's an interesting dynamic to s see, especially Having studied everything that's gone on over the past few years, I don't know. It drives me crazy sometimes. Leigh/@followtheleighder: And it's are you getting a lot of the blowback from fellow veterans about veteran stories? Ben: I I I'm not sure if you're following me when this happened. I had a close personal friend from two deployment well, one deployment, but we went to AIT together, which is job training in the army. we deployed in 2012 together. I lived with him, like knew his kids their entire lives growing up. When I moved down here to Florida, he lives like maybe five minutes away from me. But after the whole Charlie Kirk thing, he was involved in the whole process to get me get me slandered, basically. He's I've I've seen him online putting my full name out there, saying that I defraud the VA. Even though everything that he is saying, I defraud the VA about. Well, he didn't say specifics, but like all of our experiences, we went through those together. Like that really blew my mind. Like he's I don't know, the amount of nights that we had either after deployment or cigar nights on deployment talking about the stuff that happened. And I come down here and I shake up his the little I don't know what they want to call it around here, their little Republican clique. They're mega they're nuts. They're crazy. Shake that up and he just becomes a different person. He ended up contacting me and apologizing after I got a couple of other people involved because it's slander. Especially like this was after my following had grown like a lot and you can't just be saying stuff like that, man. Not not now. he ended up calling me apologizing, saying asking if we could move on, but I'm not like that anymore, man. I I've forgiven too many people in my life and had it fight me back. So unless someone shows a a pattern of change, I don't I don't let them back into my orbit, so that's all not you're good. Yeah. It's crazy. Well people will excuse what people will change on all in the name of these convictions. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Like you said, like you had to establish boundaries with this person, which again, huge, but also thinking about the level of reaction. And I've noticed this too. If I touch a nerve, not even meaning to, I'm not even talking to you. you know what I mean? I'm talking about me. Right. If but if I authentically say it in such a way, Ben: Mm-hmm. Leigh/@followtheleighder: It the reactions are wild. And the more authentic I am, the bigger these responses are. And I'm like, whoa. Like, what did I and it's it's projections, it's mirrors. Like this, yeah. Like you're Ben: It's yeah. I I s me go. Leigh/@followtheleighder: I was just gonna say, I mean, you you guys, like you said, y'all were y'all were boys together. You sat at the same day doing the same events. Why is he having this different reaction? And it's like it almost sounds like more like you were the one that expanded and he stayed in the cult and you challenged the cult mindset with being like Ben: th yeah, I mean sk he not the coal, he wasn't in the church. That was in the military. Okay. Yeah. Leigh/@followtheleighder: W right, right, right. Sorry, sorry. But yes, that that cult mentality, that mindset of just like you can't question Ben: yeah. Well I I I should have realized it 'cause like within a week of me coming down here I went over to visit him or with like a f couple of days and I walked into his house and he was showing me around his house and walked in his son's room and there was a big Trump flag up and he ripped it down and I keep telling him to take that down and like I know him. I know how he is. And I knew right there he was trying to hide it from me for whatever reason. and at that point I had just kind of stayed away from him and I think that probably got to him a little bit too. 'Cause I d I didn't I d I don't know. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah. Ben: I d I can't have those and he's one of those gotta reminisce all the time about everything type of people. That was the other reason it was so surprising that he posted all that stuff. Like he has told so many of the stories like that led me to where I am. He has told them over and over and again. Yeah. Leigh/@followtheleighder: He's the story keeper and you challenge the story. That's it's it's like I said, brave, isolating, courageous, alienating. What you're doing is is bold and it takes a lot of strength and I'm very thankful that you came on today. Can you tell folks who have been listening how they can learn more about you, follow you, or just generally keep up with what you're doing? Ben: so Instagram, press X repeat, Facebook, press X repeat, three different words, press X and then repeat. All platforms press X repeat. Yeah, that's a simple way to put it. I'm going through a bit of transition right now with my content. I'm trying to, like I said before, just get everything streamlined, get things more organized. also I I just this whole breaking news. I don't know how to describe it like that. I've got some something just broken. I need to talk about it. I g I can't do that. It's it's it's constant. I'd rather spend a full day working on researching something, a full week researching something, and then talk about it. So I'm trying to get away from that. Hopefully I can get Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah. Yeah. I I do too. And and and that will come. That will come. You'll find your niche. You'll find you'll find your flow. But of course you're gonna grow the fastest with breaking news because that's topical, but it it is. It's exhausting and then you also feel like you're part of an echo chamber and there's all sorts of to it. But your voice Yeah. Yeah. Your voice, your perspective, it absolutely matters. Ben: Yeah. That's the biggest thing. Leigh/@followtheleighder: And and I do hope that you'll consider returning and we'll talk about, you know, other things as they come up. But really, you're you're you're a very valuable person, Ben, and I'm very thankful that you're here. and again, is there anything Ben: I appreciate that, but you're giving me far too much credit. I really I really am doing what a lot of other people would be able to do. It's just takes takes looking past the headlines. Takes taking the time to understand an issue. Leigh/@followtheleighder: It does. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Well, folks, that was another episode of Follow the Leader. What did y'all think? Let me know in the comments. And if you have any comments or questions that I can ask Ben the next time we get together, let me know. And we'll definitely do that. But don't forget to follow him. Press X repeat. It's all one word over on socials. Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe, comment. Y'all know the drill. This has been another episode of Follow the Leader. I'm your host, Lee Larson, and until next time, see ya. Ben: Thank you, Lily.