Latest / Karl and Crew / AI and Identity Ideology vs. Reality with Abdu Murray & The Fruit of Men’s Discipleship with Pastor Leonard Tanks Jr.

Transcript

AI and Identity Ideology vs. Reality with Abdu Murray & The Fruit of Men’s Discipleship with Pastor Leonard Tanks Jr. · Karl and Crew

• 0:00
  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. Come as
• 0:05
  S1: you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems impossible and
• 0:11
  S1: live as you never imagined. Start your morning with a laugh.
• 0:15
  S2: Practical from the Bible. Tips and tricks to kill. Not tricks,
• 0:20
  S2: but tips and tricks. Tips and tricks to kill. Tips
• 0:26
  S2: and tricks.
• 0:26
  S1: Delivering the truth daily.
• 0:29
  S3: All of my attempts to, you know, prop myself up
• 0:31
  S3: with achievement and good works. Well, God wasn't impressed by that.
• 0:35
  S3: Even if other people were.
• 0:37
  S2: The gospel changes everything.
• 0:39
  S4: Freedom in Christ. Man, it's like that backpack of cement
• 0:42
  S4: just falling to the ground.
• 0:44
  S1: Now, from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
• 0:49
  S1: and crew. Whoa.
• 0:51
  S5: Nelly! Top of the hour here. Good morning to you
• 0:54
  S5: on this Tuesday morning. Whoa, Nelly. Who said that again? Dandy.
• 0:58
  S5: Don Meredith. Yes, that's who said it.
• 1:01
  S2: Yeah, I was that conversation with yourself. Well, I'm.
• 1:05
  S5: Giving you guys a little bit of space to converse,
• 1:07
  S5: but maybe not much jumping.
• 1:09
  S2: You said. You said whoa, Nelly. Who said that? Dandy
• 1:12
  S2: Don Meredith. Who's the one who said that? Yes, sir. Indeed. Whoa, Nelly!
• 1:17
  S2: That was awesome.
• 1:20
  S6: Keith Jackson, wasn't it?
• 1:21
  S5: Oh! Whoa, Nelly, it's Keith Jackson!
• 1:24
  S6: Yeah.
• 1:25
  S5: Dandy.
• 1:25
  S6: Don Meredith I don't know.
• 1:27
  S5: Turn out the lights. The party's over. He'd sit there
• 1:32
  S5: with Howard Cosell and do that deal.
• 1:34
  S6: Remember that? True. Yes.
• 1:36
  S5: Wasn't that dandy, Don? We better make sure now.
• 1:37
  S2: That was dandy, Don. Meredith, Keith Jackson said. Whoa, Nelly!
• 1:40
  S5: Whoa, Nelly. Love that. Love that.
• 1:46
  S2: Both sports broadcasters. I loved when the the age when
• 1:50
  S2: sports broadcasters had like a thing that they said, oh yeah,
• 1:54
  S2: for NASCAR. I don't know who says it, but before
• 1:57
  S2: every race, as soon as they hit the gas and
• 1:59
  S2: they start. Boogity boogity boogity. Let's go racing, boys.
• 2:02
  S5: Yeah. That's right.
• 2:03
  S2: I love the catchphrase.
• 2:05
  S6: Oh, man.
• 2:07
  S5: Let's get ready to rumble.
• 2:09
  S2: Yes!
• 2:11
  S3: That was a catchphrase.
• 2:12
  S5: Yeah.
• 2:13
  S3: Oh, I thought that was just like a part of
• 2:15
  S3: a Jock Jams song. That was. No, not jock jams.
• 2:19
  S5: It started with the deal. The jock jams grabbed it.
• 2:23
  S6: I know, but literally.
• 2:24
  S3: I could hear in my mind. I'm back warming up
• 2:26
  S3: for a volleyball game in high school, and I hear,
• 2:28
  S3: let's get ready to rumble.
• 2:32
  S5: Yeah. That's right.
• 2:33
  S2: That was the, uh, the boxing announcer, Michael Buffer.
• 2:36
  S6: Thank you. Couldn't think of his last name.
• 2:38
  S5: Got another one. Rip city. That was an announcer for
• 2:43
  S5: the Portland Trailblazers way back in the day. Okay, I
• 2:45
  S5: think he's dead and gone, but, boy, oh, boy, that's that.
• 2:48
  S5: That's what coined the Blazers being called Rip City, I think.
• 2:52
  S5: Are they still Rip City?
• 2:54
  S6: I don't think so. What?
• 2:56
  S2: I've never heard Rip City.
• 2:57
  S6: Yeah.
• 2:57
  S3: Oh, yeah. They have some of their jerseys.
• 2:59
  S6: Say rip.
• 3:00
  S2: City.
• 3:00
  S6: Oh, yeah. Wow. See, that.
• 3:01
  S5: Was coined by this announcer. Somebody checked that out. Who?
• 3:04
  S3: I never knew why, but I thought that's interesting. They
• 3:07
  S3: live in Portland.
• 3:08
  S5: Yeah, when I was going to Bible college, there it
• 3:10
  S5: was rip city, baby.
• 3:12
  S2: Uh, bill. Bill. Schonely or Scotty? It's c h o
• 3:17
  S2: n e l y. Schonely or Schonely. Uh, he coined
• 3:20
  S2: it in 1971. He exclaimed it during a game against
• 3:24
  S2: the Lakers after guard Jim Barnett hit a long range
• 3:27
  S2: shot to rally the team.
• 3:28
  S5: Well, that's how I didn't know his name because I
• 3:31
  S5: was listening to Rip City in the 80s. Who was
• 3:33
  S5: the announcer for the Bulls in the 80s?
• 3:35
  S2: You mean the Trail Blazers?
• 3:36
  S5: Yeah, yeah. The trailblazers. Gotta check this one out. Doo
• 3:41
  S5: doo doo doo doo doo doo doo.
• 3:44
  S6: How you doing?
• 3:45
  S2: Uh.
• 3:46
  S6: Is that.
• 3:46
  S3: Readily available?
• 3:47
  S2: It's the same guy he was in the 80s as
• 3:50
  S2: well as the. Oh, really? He went from 70 to 1998.
• 3:53
  S5: Yeah, that's how they got that term rip city. It
• 3:56
  S5: was three pointers, man.
• 3:57
  S3: I've got a I got a catch phrase.
• 3:59
  S5: What is it?
• 4:00
  S3: Get a swig of water.
• 4:04
  S2: Now. Who said that?
• 4:05
  S3: Who? Huh? Let's think about that. How about if that
• 4:10
  S3: don't fire you up? You got wet wood. Oh, wait,
• 4:17
  S3: you got a couple of car isms. I got quiet
• 4:20
  S3: on the other end there. Okay. Over there, you got.
• 4:23
  S3: You got catchphrases, Carl. Yeah.
• 4:26
  S5: Run its course.
• 4:26
  S2: That's true. Did you come up with those things on
• 4:30
  S2: your own? Like swig of water? I'm pretty sure you did.
• 4:32
  S5: I've got so.
• 4:33
  S3: Many of them. The swig of water, I think might
• 4:35
  S3: be original. Katy Bar the door is one that you say,
• 4:37
  S3: but I know that that one has other origins.
• 4:40
  S5: Oh, yeah?
• 4:41
  S3: Yeah, but the fire you up might be a real original.
• 4:45
  S2: Yeah, I've never heard those ones any other place.
• 4:48
  S5: Yeah. Uh, where was I at? Here.
• 4:50
  S2: Oh, I know.
• 4:52
  S5: Whoa, Nelly!
• 4:54
  S3: Okay.
• 4:55
  S5: We're halfway there.
• 4:59
  S7: We're halfway there. Oh, livin on a prayer. Take my hand.
• 5:07
  S5: Excuse me while I do a little headbanging here.
• 5:11
  S7: Livin on a prayer.
• 5:14
  S5: Oh, I thought we're gonna go into that.
• 5:16
  S3: Smoke's coming out of your ears, Carl.
• 5:18
  S5: Yeah. It's so good, man. We're halfway there. Ali, tell
• 5:21
  S5: everyone where we're at.
• 5:23
  S3: We are halfway there to filling up our prayer crew
• 5:27
  S3: for spring share. We're looking for 600 people who are
• 5:30
  S3: willing to commit 30 minutes, a half hour to praying
• 5:33
  S3: specifically for share. And boy, oh boy, we saw an
• 5:36
  S3: incredible response yesterday and it has continued. So there are
• 5:40
  S3: some slots left, but they're filling up fast. So if
• 5:42
  S3: you're willing to pray for 30 minutes, we'll give you
• 5:44
  S3: the prayer points. The prayer prompts some behind the scenes
• 5:47
  S3: updates as well. Tex crew. Crew to 800 555 7898
• 5:54
  S3: Tex crew to 800 555 7898.
• 5:58
  S5: Yeah, man. Okay. Coming up man. Ali had a guest
• 6:02
  S5: in here when I was gone twice, and he's so good.
• 6:06
  S5: He's made it into a week called Ask the Experts.
• 6:09
  S5: That's even coming up in a short time. But my goodness, Ali,
• 6:13
  S5: this guy must peel paint.
• 6:14
  S3: Yes. And he's got a book out coming up. We're
• 6:17
  S3: going to have Abdu Murray with us. His latest book,
• 6:19
  S3: fake ID how AI and Identity Ideology are Collapsing reality
• 6:25
  S3: and what to do about it. Doesn't that just sound
• 6:28
  S3: like a it sounds.
• 6:29
  S5: Scary as all get out.
• 6:30
  S3: But a topic that you're going to want an expert
• 6:32
  S3: to weigh in on? He's going to do that coming up.
• 6:35
  S1: You can take him out of Alaska, but you can't
• 6:37
  S1: take Alaska out of him. Carl is in the crew.
• 6:41
  S1: It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 6:44
  S5: One of the great joys we have here with Carl
• 6:47
  S5: and crew is bringing in guests and hearing their backstory,
• 6:50
  S5: because a lot of us could think, yeah, okay, you
• 6:52
  S5: got get this expert on and we we forget the
• 6:55
  S5: reality that they, in fact, were born with their back
• 6:58
  S5: to God. That only by the mercy of God and
• 7:00
  S5: the call of the Spirit of God on their life
• 7:02
  S5: did they turn around, repent and surrender all that they
• 7:05
  S5: are to Jesus Christ? Abdu Murray here. I've been hearing
• 7:09
  S5: about you ad nauseam, Abdu. And it's okay. I'm going
• 7:12
  S5: to get over it because Ali had you on when
• 7:14
  S5: I was gone on two occasions and she said, this
• 7:17
  S5: guy is amazing, but it didn't start that way. Let's
• 7:20
  S5: go back, man. Let's get your story. Good to have
• 7:22
  S5: you with us, Abdu Murray.
• 7:24
  S8: So the background story essentially is I was raised as
• 7:27
  S8: a muslim. Um, I was pretty proud of it. I
• 7:29
  S8: was a Shia muslim, uh, often referred to commonly as Shiite. Um, and, uh,
• 7:34
  S8: was raised in the metro Detroit area, and I took
• 7:37
  S8: it pretty seriously. I thought that everyone should become Muslims.
• 7:40
  S8: And Islam was, you know, the bee's knees, man. You
• 7:42
  S8: should believe it. And I would not have any of this.
• 7:45
  S8: Like it's true for you. It's, you know, that's that's fine.
• 7:47
  S8: But what's true for me is fine for me. And
• 7:49
  S8: you have your religion and I have mine. No, no, no,
• 7:51
  S8: Things that are true are just true. So I engage
• 7:54
  S8: with Christians. Um, well, anybody who would listen to me, really.
• 7:57
  S8: But Christians were sort of low hanging fruit, uh, in
• 8:00
  S8: the area because back then, in the 80s and the 90s,
• 8:03
  S8: it was sort of low. It was sort of fashionable
• 8:05
  S8: to say you were a Christian, even if you didn't
• 8:07
  S8: mean it. You know, that's not the case anymore. But
• 8:09
  S8: I would often, you know, dive into what I thought
• 8:11
  S8: were the fundamental flaws that I thought were with Christianity.
• 8:15
  S8: I thought that Christianity was light hearted but wrong headed,
• 8:18
  S8: and things like the Trinity and the incarnation and the cross.
• 8:21
  S8: These were things that insulted God's greatness and didn't make
• 8:24
  S8: any sense. And, uh, God's greatness was a fundamental attribute
• 8:28
  S8: for me of God like you have. If God truly exists,
• 8:31
  S8: then he would be the greatest possible being. And I
• 8:33
  S8: thought Christian doctrine insulted that greatness. It was over the
• 8:36
  S8: course of a nine year journey where I looked in
• 8:38
  S8: the philosophical, historical, scientific, existential, and ultimately personal reasons to
• 8:43
  S8: be a Christian, where I saw that the very things
• 8:46
  S8: that I thought insulted God's greatness were the very things
• 8:48
  S8: that actually demonstrated it. In other words, God is great
• 8:51
  S8: because he's incarnate. God is great because he's a Trinity,
• 8:55
  S8: and God is great because of the cross and empty tomb.
• 8:58
  S8: And so after that nine years, I gave my life
• 9:00
  S8: to Christ.
• 9:01
  S3: Abdu Murray, our guest. He's a speaker, author. He's the
• 9:04
  S3: president of Embrace the Truth has spent decades analyzing how
• 9:08
  S3: the major religions and nonreligious thought traditions have attempted to
• 9:12
  S3: address cultural issues. You know, I'm intrigued by your latest book.
• 9:17
  S3: It tackles a couple big ones hot topics right now
• 9:20
  S3: AI and identity. Ideology. You took on two of the
• 9:25
  S3: big ones. Tell us, why did you feel like this
• 9:28
  S3: was a book that needed to be written?
• 9:30
  S8: Yeah. Well, you know, in the book I argue that
• 9:33
  S8: we're experiencing a collapse of a shared reality driven by
• 9:36
  S8: these two powerful forces, and there's a lot of folks
• 9:39
  S8: who have written on artificial intelligence, especially from a Christian perspective.
• 9:43
  S8: And there's other folks who have written on gender ideology
• 9:46
  S8: and identity ideology from a Christian perspective. But what I
• 9:49
  S8: didn't see was anybody writing on the convergence of both
• 9:52
  S8: of those two things at this particular cultural moment, and
• 9:55
  S8: I think it's something that's actually quite pervasive, where you
• 9:58
  S8: have what I, I'm not against AI, but AI mania.
• 10:02
  S8: This like unbridled enthusiasm for the adoption and use of
• 10:06
  S8: artificial intelligence is getting us to collapse our shared sense
• 10:10
  S8: of reality. We can't believe our own eyes anymore. We
• 10:12
  S8: don't know what's real and what's fake. But also, we're
• 10:15
  S8: starting to lose our sense of what it means to
• 10:16
  S8: be human. Because this thing comes along that seems to
• 10:20
  S8: create art and write music and do all the things
• 10:22
  S8: that make us us. But it doesn't have a soul.
• 10:25
  S8: We created it. So does that mean that we don't
• 10:27
  S8: have a soul and that maybe we're just machines too? Um,
• 10:30
  S8: but also identity. Ideology does exactly the same thing. It
• 10:34
  S8: gets us to distrust our own eyes, to not believe
• 10:37
  S8: the science, to to elevate feelings and preferences above facts
• 10:41
  S8: and truth. And these two things are happening at the
• 10:43
  S8: same time. And so, since no one was writing about
• 10:46
  S8: both of those things and their effect on our collective consciousness.
• 10:49
  S8: I thought someone ought to do it.
• 10:51
  S5: Yeah, I love it. Abdu Murray, our guest right now.
• 10:54
  S5: So I've been doing a deep dive on this myself.
• 10:56
  S5: I'm not nearly as node up nor as intellectual as
• 11:00
  S5: you are with regard to these topics, but I do
• 11:02
  S5: want to ask you, there's a lot of discussion. I
• 11:04
  S5: saw Elon Musk interviewed by a couple other AI experts,
• 11:07
  S5: and they were kicking around this idea of singularity, which
• 11:10
  S5: is basically, if I understand it right, singularity is going
• 11:14
  S5: to be where AI begins to drive the bus in
• 11:17
  S5: our culture. How do we. It seems to me we
• 11:20
  S5: better sort this out now, this convergence of AI identity
• 11:24
  S5: ideology and get some definition. But how do Christ's followers,
• 11:29
  S5: genuine disciples of Christ, face the fears and the uncertainty
• 11:35
  S5: of singularity when AI outpaces even human reason? How do
• 11:41
  S5: we deal with that, Abdu?
• 11:43
  S8: Yeah, yeah. And I think the first thing we need
• 11:45
  S8: to do is have a strong sense of an understanding
• 11:48
  S8: of what it means to be human in the first place.
• 11:50
  S8: And it doesn't have to do with capability. This is
• 11:53
  S8: the part that I think people get wrong when they say,
• 11:55
  S8: what does it mean to be made in the image
• 11:57
  S8: of God? It doesn't mean our capacity for reason. In
• 12:00
  S8: other words, our capabilities of reason, or our capabilities of
• 12:03
  S8: performing things and making art and creativity like our Lord does.
• 12:07
  S8: Those things are reflections of our Lord. But that is
• 12:10
  S8: not what it means to be human. What it means
• 12:11
  S8: is to be human is to be made in the
• 12:13
  S8: image of God, is to have the capacity of relationship
• 12:17
  S8: and a transcendence to us that is irrespective of our capabilities.
• 12:22
  S8: Because if we harness it on capabilities, then that means
• 12:24
  S8: that some human beings are made in the image of
• 12:27
  S8: God more than other people, because our capabilities are all different,
• 12:30
  S8: and those who are infirm or have TBIs or infants
• 12:34
  S8: then somehow don't have the capabilities that other people have.
• 12:37
  S8: And so that can't be it. It's got to be
• 12:39
  S8: the capacity, the kind of thing we are that relates
• 12:42
  S8: to the divine. And no machine, no matter how much
• 12:44
  S8: it outperforms us, possibly has that. It just doesn't. No
• 12:48
  S8: matter what it seems to perform as that's the first thing,
• 12:51
  S8: is to anchor yourself in this fundamental truth, which I
• 12:54
  S8: think is actually vouchsafed, actually made real and historically verifiable
• 12:59
  S8: by the fact that Christ said we're made in God's image,
• 13:03
  S8: that he died on the cross to restore to us
• 13:05
  S8: what that means. And then he rose from the dead,
• 13:07
  S8: as a matter of fact, to prove it. And guys
• 13:10
  S8: who rise from the dead have credibility, you know? Um,
• 13:13
  S8: so if he said it, if he said it, then
• 13:15
  S8: that's good enough for me. So that's one. But two
• 13:18
  S8: is to not be too afraid of this machine is
• 13:21
  S8: one is don't run away from this stuff. Uh, because
• 13:24
  S8: it can be so scary that we hide into a
• 13:27
  S8: bubble and the rest of the world starts to embrace it.
• 13:29
  S8: And before we know it, they're fooled. And we need
• 13:31
  S8: to be able to say, no, no, no, this thing
• 13:33
  S8: looks like it's alive, but it's not. Second is be
• 13:37
  S8: aware that some of the hype is exactly that. It's
• 13:40
  S8: exactly hype. The singularity is this idea that AI will
• 13:44
  S8: achieve human level intelligence, some say, by 2029. So three
• 13:48
  S8: years from now, others say it'll take hundreds of years
• 13:52
  S8: before that. And these are both AI experts. So what
• 13:55
  S8: you're hearing is a lot of hype from people who
• 13:56
  S8: want you to buy it. Beware of that. If it
• 13:59
  S8: sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
• 14:01
  S5: Or too bad to be true. I guess as well, right?
• 14:03
  S8: Yeah, yeah, that's true too, because I you know, it's
• 14:06
  S8: funny you say this because I was talking to an
• 14:08
  S8: AI expert. I won't name her, but she was an
• 14:10
  S8: AI expert, a leading person, and also, by the way,
• 14:13
  S8: a believer. And I asked her about some of the
• 14:15
  S8: stuff that we had seen, because Elon Musk is the
• 14:18
  S8: same guy who signed a document from the Future of
• 14:22
  S8: Life Institute, which suggested that we should put a halt
• 14:25
  S8: on artificial intelligence development because we don't know what it
• 14:28
  S8: will do to the human, to the human being and
• 14:31
  S8: to our culture. He's the same guy who signed that,
• 14:34
  S8: but also tells us that we ought to embrace, you know,
• 14:36
  S8: all these things as quickly as possible. So you're like, well,
• 14:39
  S8: how do those two things jive? And she said, look, basically,
• 14:42
  S8: even the doom and gloom is a good marketing tactic
• 14:45
  S8: because what do people want most? They want to enter
• 14:47
  S8: the forbidden closet of mystery. And if AI is the
• 14:50
  S8: forbidden closet of mystery, fear will drive sales. Because I
• 14:54
  S8: don't want to be left behind. Or, you know, I
• 14:56
  S8: want to. I want to merge with this thing and
• 14:58
  S8: all that stuff. So I think that's important for us
• 15:00
  S8: to realize that some of the hype is exactly that. Now,
• 15:03
  S8: will it become advanced? Oh, yeah, absolutely it will. Will
• 15:06
  S8: it become human level intelligent? I have serious doubts. Pretty
• 15:10
  S8: serious doubts. But even if it did, it doesn't mean
• 15:12
  S8: that we're doomed necessarily. I think God is still in control,
• 15:15
  S8: and I think we can anchor ourselves in that, and
• 15:17
  S8: then spread that word to the non-Christians who need to
• 15:19
  S8: hear it.
• 15:19
  S5: If it gets there, it's Tower of Babel esque, so
• 15:22
  S5: we probably won't be here anyway, right, Abdu?
• 15:25
  S8: Yeah, actually that's interesting you say that because I actually
• 15:27
  S8: talk about the Tower of Babel in the book, and
• 15:30
  S8: what I see is God does something in the Tower
• 15:34
  S8: of Babel story, which is amazing because, you know, the
• 15:36
  S8: whole point of that was that we were of one
• 15:39
  S8: language and one accord, and that was in direct violation
• 15:42
  S8: of God's edict to us to go and spread out
• 15:45
  S8: amongst the world and explore the beautiful diversity of the
• 15:48
  S8: world he had created for us to have dominion over.
• 15:51
  S8: And instead of going out, we went up and we
• 15:53
  S8: wanted to make a name for ourselves. Well, this is
• 15:56
  S8: interesting because there was no other people to make a
• 15:58
  S8: name for. We did it to impress God. Like we're
• 16:01
  S8: just as good as you and we can reach your heights.
• 16:04
  S8: And that's exactly what I think is going on with
• 16:07
  S8: the AI mania. Again, I use AI, um, not for
• 16:11
  S8: generative purposes, because I think that's where we start to
• 16:13
  S8: lose ourselves, but I use it. But understanding that why
• 16:17
  S8: we're so proud of it and why we're so anxious
• 16:20
  S8: for the singularity, it allows us to achieve godhood. In
• 16:23
  S8: other words, what it does is it allows us to
• 16:26
  S8: solve a contradiction that we've been living with for years.
• 16:29
  S8: And that contradiction is that we are just machines. We
• 16:33
  S8: are just biochemical machines. We have no immaterial soul, and
• 16:36
  S8: that's all we are. We're just clockwork. But the other
• 16:39
  S8: claim is that we're God. We can dictate reality as
• 16:42
  S8: we like. We can say we're one thing, and even
• 16:44
  S8: if we're not, we can say it. And people have
• 16:47
  S8: to agree with it. So we're essentially God. Both those
• 16:50
  S8: things can't be true. You can't be a machine and God.
• 16:53
  S8: What AI mania tells you is that you are a
• 16:56
  S8: machine and that's all you are. But you are a
• 16:57
  S8: really clever one. And if you wait long enough, we
• 17:00
  S8: will ascend to godhood. So Eden's failure was not that
• 17:05
  S8: it was immoral to try to be God. Eden's failure
• 17:08
  S8: was that it was premature, because now we have the
• 17:10
  S8: technology to do it.
• 17:11
  S5: Unbelievable.
• 17:12
  S8: Yeah, and that's what I think we're going. But I
• 17:14
  S8: think that we can actually stem the tide of this
• 17:16
  S8: by showing how beautifully and wonderfully we are made in
• 17:19
  S8: God's image, and give some of the proof of that.
• 17:22
  S3: Abdu Murray, our guest right now, he's a speaker, author,
• 17:25
  S3: president of Embrace the Truth, a phenomenal organization. I love
• 17:29
  S3: your videos answering some of those hot topic questions. A
• 17:32
  S3: quick thought on the identity piece of this, because the
• 17:35
  S3: AI gets a lot of attention for sure. But the
• 17:38
  S3: identity ideology and the ever confusing realm of trying to
• 17:43
  S3: define what it means to be human, but what it
• 17:46
  S3: means to be a woman or a man, what it
• 17:48
  S3: means to fit into these different categories that are clear
• 17:52
  S3: but have become very, very murky. Talk a little bit
• 17:55
  S3: about that.
• 17:56
  S8: It's interesting because you see this happening in the most
• 17:58
  S8: educated areas and echelons of Western society. For example, when
• 18:02
  S8: the Supreme Court just had a hearings on title nine cases, um,
• 18:06
  S8: some of the more conservative judges were saying, can you
• 18:09
  S8: to the plaintiffs define what a woman actually is? And
• 18:12
  S8: they said, we don't have a working definition of that.
• 18:14
  S8: And one of the judges says, well, then how can
• 18:16
  S8: we possibly decide if someone's been discriminated on the basis
• 18:19
  S8: of being a woman? If you can't define what a
• 18:22
  S8: woman is? And then other justices were saying, I'm having
• 18:25
  S8: the same problem, but they were on the more liberal
• 18:28
  S8: side of this thing saying, we can't define this because
• 18:30
  S8: we're not biologists. And like, well, that doesn't work. In
• 18:33
  S8: other words, we're in a situation now where the identity
• 18:36
  S8: ideology is prodding us through threats of cancellation through other,
• 18:41
  S8: other means of threat, to not believe our own eyes,
• 18:46
  S8: to do what O'Brien did to Winston in 1984, which
• 18:50
  S8: was get him to concede that two plus two equals five,
• 18:53
  S8: and sometimes it's three, even though we know it's not.
• 18:56
  S8: He did it through torture, but we do it now
• 18:58
  S8: through social pressure. So we're being told, don't believe your
• 19:01
  S8: own eyes. And if you don't. And the reason why
• 19:04
  S8: you shouldn't is because you other people can be gods
• 19:06
  S8: of their own skull sized worlds. And you shall have
• 19:09
  S8: no other gods before them. The problem is, I'm also
• 19:12
  S8: a god of my own skull sized world, and my
• 19:15
  S8: preferences matter too. And so it creates just a world
• 19:18
  S8: of clash where all we do is clash. And the
• 19:21
  S8: people who win aren't the ones with truth on their side.
• 19:25
  S8: It's the ones with power on their side and the
• 19:27
  S8: loudest microphones and the most media attention. So that leads
• 19:31
  S8: to a complete reality collapse, because it's no longer truth
• 19:34
  S8: that decides who's right and who's wrong. So you see
• 19:37
  S8: what's going on here is that the identity doesn't go
• 19:41
  S8: from the bottom up. AI mania says you're a machine
• 19:44
  S8: who can rise to godhood. Identity. Ideology goes from the
• 19:47
  S8: top down. It says you are a god, but your
• 19:50
  S8: body is a mere machine that you can play around with. Wow.
• 19:53
  S8: So that's the problem. And I think that where AI
• 19:55
  S8: mania seduces us into becoming God, identity ideology coerces us
• 20:01
  S8: through social prodding and uses, you know, the Orwellian stick,
• 20:04
  S8: as it were, to prod us into believing this.
• 20:06
  S5: Yeah, I believe that. You know, I've cogitated a lot
• 20:09
  S5: on this. It's the absence of what we're calling common
• 20:12
  S5: sense is the absence of common sense, the presence and
• 20:17
  S5: maybe most visible evidence of rebellion to God.
• 20:23
  S8: Well, I like the way you put those two things together, because,
• 20:25
  S8: as you were saying, the absence of common sense. I
• 20:27
  S8: think a that's true, but I think it's more than that.
• 20:31
  S8: And I think this is something every human being, whether
• 20:33
  S8: they're a Christian or not, whether you're right, left, center,
• 20:36
  S8: you know, I don't care what it is. You have
• 20:37
  S8: to constantly have the moral humility to ask yourself, is
• 20:41
  S8: this true or is this something I prefer? And so
• 20:44
  S8: sometimes we will abandon our common sense. In other words,
• 20:48
  S8: what we'll do is how I put it is we
• 20:50
  S8: sacrifice common sense on the altar of our autonomy. And
• 20:55
  S8: I think this is the root of it. We're not
• 20:57
  S8: looking for freedom. Freedom has a positive side and a
• 21:00
  S8: negative side. And the negative. I don't mean bad. I
• 21:02
  S8: mean negative means freedom from restriction. Yes, but positive means
• 21:07
  S8: you have freedom for the greater good. And we only
• 21:10
  S8: concentrate on the negative freedom, which means that I don't
• 21:13
  S8: want any restrictions on what I say, think, do or
• 21:15
  S8: even define the world as. And purely negative freedom is
• 21:19
  S8: actually autonomy. And autonomy comes from two Greek root words autos,
• 21:23
  S8: which means self, and nomos, which means law. So when
• 21:27
  S8: you are autonomous, you're not free. You're a law unto yourself.
• 21:31
  S8: And that is where we sacrifice common sense on the
• 21:35
  S8: altar of our own divine autonomy. And so, yes, that
• 21:39
  S8: is in fact, rebellion.
• 21:40
  S5: Yeah, it's the epitome of rebellion, is it not?
• 21:43
  S8: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And the important thing here is to
• 21:47
  S8: not draw lines in a culture war where we're saying
• 21:49
  S8: it's us versus them because, you know, and I love
• 21:52
  S8: the way you started our time together is that I
• 21:54
  S8: had my back towards God. You know, um, we say
• 21:56
  S8: us versus them. I have to remember something. I was
• 21:58
  S8: once them.
• 21:59
  S5: Yes.
• 22:00
  S8: And them can be us. We're in this together. And,
• 22:03
  S8: you know, we have a phrase in Arabic. It means
• 22:06
  S8: we're all in the same wind. The connotation is we
• 22:08
  S8: all smell the same stink. And it's a little more
• 22:12
  S8: colorful than the, uh, we're all in the same boat phrase. Yeah,
• 22:15
  S8: but we all. Yeah, but we create the same stink
• 22:18
  S8: because we're all sinners in need of a savior.
• 22:20
  S5: And that protects us from what we loathe here, which
• 22:23
  S5: is angry evangelicalism, which is never saved. One soul.
• 22:28
  S8: Well, yeah, I think that how that ended is just
• 22:30
  S8: absolutely right is that we're in the middle of a
• 22:32
  S8: culture where we can't believe our own eyes anymore, and
• 22:36
  S8: we start to go from post-truth to post trust. But
• 22:39
  S8: we can't become cynical about it, and we can't suspect
• 22:42
  S8: every single person of trying to pull a fast one
• 22:44
  S8: over us. Satan is alive and well in the world,
• 22:48
  S8: but we need as Christ followers to not only anchor
• 22:52
  S8: ourselves in the truth, but make the truth so effervescent
• 22:55
  S8: and the aroma so sweet that other people want it
• 22:58
  S8: so quick.
• 23:00
  S5: I don't see singularity as sentient. I don't see those
• 23:04
  S5: as equivocal.
• 23:05
  S8: Yeah, I don't either. And in the book I go
• 23:07
  S8: through quite a bit of discussion about what it means
• 23:10
  S8: to have consciousness and how you can prove that consciousness
• 23:13
  S8: is immaterial. In other words, it's not dependent upon the
• 23:16
  S8: circuitry of our brain. It is immaterial. It is transcendent.
• 23:20
  S8: And so the singularity will be necessarily dependent upon the
• 23:24
  S8: silicon of the software. Yes. And so it can't have sentience.
• 23:27
  S8: It can fake it, it can mimic it, but it'll
• 23:29
  S8: never actually be it.
• 23:30
  S5: Well, I think therein lies the danger. It's not sentient,
• 23:33
  S5: but it will pretend to be. And it's garbage in.
• 23:36
  S5: Garbage out.
• 23:37
  S8: Absolutely. So let's not lose our humanity over this thing.
• 23:39
  S8: Let's actually assert our humanity.
• 23:42
  S5: Boom! Brother, this is powerhouse. Ali, where'd you find Abdu Murray?
• 23:46
  S5: For crying out loud.
• 23:48
  S3: Abdu Murray, if you want more. And I know you do.
• 23:50
  S3: This is a great work. You can get to his website.
• 23:53
  S3: Embrace the truth. He has all of his resources. The
• 23:55
  S3: book also, I mentioned these these video clips where he
• 23:58
  S3: breaks down in maybe 2 to 5 minutes some of
• 24:01
  S3: the hot button questions. I sat down and watched one
• 24:04
  S3: with my 13 year old. He used one of the
• 24:06
  S3: things that he learned in your video, Abdu, to help
• 24:09
  S3: a friend answer a question about faith. Like a week later.
• 24:12
  S3: So which is awesome. So just text embrace to 800
• 24:17
  S3: 555 7898. Text embrace to 800 555 7898.
• 24:25
  S1: She's a choreographer extraordinaire and everything is Greek to her.
• 24:30
  S1: Super di is in the crew. It's Carl and crew
• 24:34
  S1: on Moody Radio.
• 24:35
  S5: Calling all men. We don't often do this around here, but, boy,
• 24:38
  S5: it's important. Reject passivity. Accept responsibility. Anticipate God's reward. Oh, Nelly.
• 24:45
  S5: I keep saying Nelly this morning.
• 24:48
  S3: And walk worthy.
• 24:50
  S5: And walk worthy. Yeah, we want to feature this. It's
• 24:54
  S5: it's such an awesome event that's been held annually in Cleveland, Ohio.
• 24:59
  S5: And now the door is swinging wide for everybody. How
• 25:03
  S5: about that alley?
• 25:04
  S3: Yeah. Coming up, you are going to get a preview
• 25:06
  S3: from one of the guest speakers. I think you're going
• 25:10
  S3: to love his testimony.
• 25:12
  S1: He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you
• 25:15
  S1: can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's
• 25:19
  S1: Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 25:22
  S5: Well, it's not every day of the week that we
• 25:24
  S5: have pastor guns, artillery. And his actual name is tanks. pastor, guns, artillery.
• 25:32
  S5: How are you doing this morning? And I'm all. I'm.
• 25:35
  S5: I'm having fun with you, brother. But my goodness, if
• 25:38
  S5: only I could have had pastor tanks for a last name.
• 25:41
  S5: It's good to have you with us, my man.
• 25:43
  S9: Um, I appreciate you guys having me on with you
• 25:46
  S9: guys this morning, Leonard.
• 25:47
  S3: Thanks. Junior pastor. He's a pastor, apologist, emerging theologian. He's
• 25:51
  S3: based in Cleveland, Ohio. So a familiar voice to some
• 25:55
  S3: of our Cleveland area listeners. He's the pastor and church
• 25:58
  S3: planner of Reach City Church in Cleveland.
• 26:01
  S5: Man. Pastor tanks. It's such a joy to have you here. And, uh,
• 26:05
  S5: by the way, I was teasing him. He doesn't drive
• 26:07
  S5: past any gyms. If he sees one, he steps in,
• 26:10
  S5: rips off a few repetitions and moves on. But you
• 26:13
  S5: know that physical body. Paul says it's of some value,
• 26:17
  S5: but the spiritual much. Let's go back to the beginning.
• 26:20
  S5: How did God call you out of darkness and into
• 26:23
  S5: the light, my man?
• 26:24
  S9: Oh yeah. Man, I actually, uh, I found Christ in
• 26:27
  S9: a jail cell facing five years for assault and kidnapping
• 26:31
  S9: and some other violent crimes. And, um. Yeah, somebody gave
• 26:35
  S9: me a Bible. 24 years old, started reading the Bible
• 26:38
  S9: in jail, waiting to go to trial. Realized how wicked
• 26:41
  S9: I was while I was reading the Bible. Prayed that
• 26:43
  S9: one night and said, hey, if you real. If you're real,
• 26:46
  S9: you get me out of jail. I'll serve you the
• 26:47
  S9: rest of my life. Two weeks later, went to trial.
• 26:50
  S9: The video, uh, evidence got damaged, and, um, they had
• 26:54
  S9: to drop the charges, and I went home that day.
• 26:57
  S5: Oh my goodness. So you struck a deal with God,
• 27:01
  S5: and you really were convicted by the Spirit of God?
• 27:05
  S5: I mean, it's we're big on this one here, pastor.
• 27:08
  S5: The the need for us to not just become, uh,
• 27:12
  S5: grafted into churchianity, but to face who we are apart
• 27:16
  S5: from God, repent of that in turn, and go a
• 27:19
  S5: whole new way. That's real salvation. Talk to us about
• 27:22
  S5: what God did in those early days when you were
• 27:24
  S5: a young child of God.
• 27:26
  S9: Yeah, I mean, he really grabbed hold of my heart. Obviously,
• 27:29
  S9: I made a deal with him. Um, but, you know,
• 27:31
  S9: I went home and didn't even think about the deal.
• 27:34
  S9: And I was actually smoking, getting high, and I heard
• 27:37
  S9: his voice for the first time. He said, I thought
• 27:39
  S9: you told me if I got you out, you was
• 27:41
  S9: giving this up. And, um, I remember after that, man,
• 27:45
  S9: I stopped smoking. That's February 26th, 2010. I started going
• 27:49
  S9: to church that next Sunday, kind of getting isolation a
• 27:51
  S9: little bit to kind of walk away from everything. And
• 27:53
  S9: so during that time, all I did was go to
• 27:55
  S9: Bible study and read the Bible every day. And the
• 27:57
  S9: more I read his word, the more I beheld his face.
• 28:00
  S9: The more I fell in love with him, the more
• 28:02
  S9: I seen the power of His Spirit working in me.
• 28:05
  S9: And the more I just kept wanting to look like
• 28:07
  S9: him and be conformed into his image. And so, yeah,
• 28:10
  S9: just kept just kept studying him, kept falling in love
• 28:12
  S9: with him. And he kept he kept pruning me, kept
• 28:14
  S9: growing me.
• 28:15
  S3: We talk a lot on our show about discipleship. What
• 28:18
  S3: did that look like for you? Who did you have
• 28:20
  S3: to walk alongside of you to as you really started
• 28:25
  S3: to embrace your new life in Christ?
• 28:27
  S9: Yeah. So a guy named Cliff Watson, man, he also,
• 28:31
  S9: you know, he'd been walking with the Lord for 20
• 28:33
  S9: plus years, but he got saved out of the streets
• 28:35
  S9: and he met me, and he was like, hey, I'm
• 28:37
  S9: going to walk with you. And so literally, uh, I
• 28:39
  S9: was at his house seven days a week. I was
• 28:41
  S9: at his house 3 or 4 of those days. Um,
• 28:43
  S9: and he would just. He did. He taught me construction
• 28:46
  S9: while he discipled me. Um, man, he challenged me on
• 28:49
  S9: some real hard challenges. Things I didn't want to do.
• 28:51
  S9: He challenged me to do it. He. He loved me.
• 28:54
  S9: He invited me into his family. And so, yeah, I
• 28:57
  S9: just spent I spent a lot of time with him,
• 28:59
  S9: and we just talked the word practical application. Um, and then,
• 29:03
  S9: you know, other realistic things, like practically like helping me
• 29:06
  S9: financially because I couldn't sell drugs no more. And so
• 29:08
  S9: he was making sure I didn't go back to the
• 29:10
  S9: streets so he would make things like that. But yeah,
• 29:12
  S9: it just looked like spending a lot of time with me.
• 29:15
  S5: That is so cool. Pastor Leonard, thanks. Is our guest
• 29:18
  S5: right now. Leonard. Thanks, junior. I want to camp on
• 29:22
  S5: this disciple making because. Oh my goodness, has he hit
• 29:26
  S5: a sweet spot with us here, guys, on this? Oh,
• 29:29
  S5: we're after it. I gotta tell you, pastor, we've been
• 29:32
  S5: after it here nationally for a long time. But disciples
• 29:36
  S5: making disciples. It is so easy to get sucked into
• 29:40
  S5: counting noses and nickels. But when our when our objective
• 29:44
  S5: is to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them, teaching
• 29:48
  S5: them to observe everything commanded, that's the joy of ministry,
• 29:52
  S5: isn't it? Pour out your heart on this one. Why
• 29:54
  S5: is that so important to you?
• 29:56
  S9: Oh, man, I was I was a product of discipleship.
• 29:58
  S9: So one of the things that we did as we
• 30:00
  S9: planted our church, we didn't do none of the sexy stuff, man.
• 30:03
  S9: Our motto for church plant was disciple making. That's my thing, man.
• 30:07
  S9: I disciple over 18 men every year, 18 different men
• 30:10
  S9: I walk with in our city. I teach quarterly disciple
• 30:13
  S9: making boot camps to people in the city to learn
• 30:15
  S9: the tools to be equipped to make disciples. I help
• 30:18
  S9: train church leaders to disciple making cultures within their churches.
• 30:22
  S9: Disciple making is the thing that I focus on, and
• 30:27
  S9: even at the Moody conference, I'll be hitting on that
• 30:29
  S9: a little bit. It's the heartbeat. And because I'm a
• 30:31
  S9: product of it, I believe in it. I know that
• 30:34
  S9: God don't take a guy that was into drugs and crime.
• 30:37
  S9: I had three felonies before I was 16 years old. Um,
• 30:40
  S9: you don't take a guy and do what he did
• 30:42
  S9: in my life without somebody walking alongside of me and
• 30:45
  S9: really showing me what it looks like to walk like Christ.
• 30:48
  S9: And so I'm a firm believer that while we can
• 30:51
  S9: go from information to implementation, it's a lot less bruises.
• 30:54
  S9: If you go by way of imitation first and then
• 30:56
  S9: allow the Holy Spirit. And an example, uh, to help
• 30:59
  S9: us learn how to live this walk out. So yeah,
• 31:01
  S9: that's my burden. That's my passion. That's the thing I
• 31:04
  S9: stress hard.
• 31:05
  S5: Okay? You don't know how this is resonating in our
• 31:08
  S5: hearts right now. You don't even know. He doesn't even
• 31:10
  S5: know the full extent of it. Does he team.
• 31:12
  S3: Know?
• 31:12
  S5: I mean, this is epic. You know, here's our heart
• 31:16
  S5: on this thing. We've got a challenge in that in
• 31:20
  S5: the church today. We've got a lot of people that
• 31:22
  S5: are going to church. But being the church is all
• 31:25
  S5: about disciples making disciples. Second Timothy two two. Man, I
• 31:30
  S5: mean for generations, right there in one verse. You know,
• 31:34
  S5: I was talking to a friend of ours, David Nelms,
• 31:37
  S5: who runs T. It's his discipleship network all across really
• 31:41
  S5: tough areas in the world. 1040 window. He said the
• 31:44
  S5: one thing that sets disciple making from church attending apart
• 31:49
  S5: is obedience to the Word of God. People read it
• 31:52
  S5: and then obey it. Jesus said, that's how you get
• 31:55
  S5: a life built on the rock. Pour out your heart
• 31:58
  S5: a little bit more. What's God showing you about this?
• 32:00
  S5: I mean, you got to go with the goers, people
• 32:02
  S5: that are ready to do that, right, pastor?
• 32:05
  S9: Yeah, yeah. I mean, so the kind of the heartbeat
• 32:09
  S9: that God has been doing in my heart is, um. Yeah,
• 32:12
  S9: really grabbing hold of, you know, guys, I got a
• 32:15
  S9: whole process. I teach people, like how to identify people
• 32:18
  S9: who are ready. Mike Berean, uh, and building the disciple
• 32:21
  S9: making culture talks about needing both high invitation and high challenge.
• 32:25
  S9: When you see Jesus give invite people into his life.
• 32:28
  S9: But that invitation came with a high challenge. And who
• 32:31
  S9: was willing and ready to accept that challenge? To know
• 32:34
  S9: that we're not just on a journey to talk about Jesus,
• 32:37
  S9: to say we're Christian, but at the fruit of Christianity,
• 32:40
  S9: as you just said, is that we are accepting the
• 32:43
  S9: challenge to die. We're accepting the challenge to have our
• 32:47
  S9: hearts and our minds and our bodies bore before Christ,
• 32:49
  S9: and to be conformed into whatever it is that he
• 32:52
  S9: wants us to do, and that we are basically accepting
• 32:55
  S9: the challenge to stay on this hamster wheel of pruning,
• 32:58
  S9: where it's a never ending cycle, that even when I
• 33:00
  S9: think I have grown, I lay back on the altar
• 33:04
  S9: to say, keep cutting, keep, keep conforming, and until I
• 33:07
  S9: can look into the mirror. Or as first John three
• 33:11
  S9: two says, we don't know what we will be like,
• 33:12
  S9: but we know that when we see him, we should
• 33:13
  S9: be as he is. And everybody who longs for that
• 33:16
  S9: purifies himself. So until I'm looking in the face of
• 33:19
  S9: my Savior, I know that my work is not done.
• 33:22
  S9: And so I continue to let the altar to say, Lord,
• 33:25
  S9: whatever it is that you're calling from me or calling
• 33:27
  S9: me to, I'm willing to do it. And so how
• 33:29
  S9: do I teach people to love that process and to
• 33:32
  S9: embrace that process by way of invitation and challenge?
• 33:36
  S3: Leonard tanks, junior pastor, tanks is with us this morning.
• 33:39
  S3: Coming up, he is going to be one of the
• 33:41
  S3: keynote speakers at the walk worthy conference that is coming up.
• 33:45
  S3: And you get to be a part of this no
• 33:47
  S3: matter where you live. If you're in the Cleveland area,
• 33:49
  S3: you can attend in person, but you can attend via
• 33:53
  S3: live stream and hear more of this kind of teaching
• 33:55
  S3: and meet with other like minded men. We'll tell you
• 33:58
  S3: more about it coming up.
• 33:59
  S1: She was trying to earn her way to God. But
• 34:02
  S1: God showed her she didn't have to. Ali is in
• 34:05
  S1: the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 34:09
  S3: Well, if you want to gather with hundreds of godly
• 34:12
  S3: men for a conference, that's going to strengthen your resolve
• 34:15
  S3: to walk worthy of your calling. Boy, do we have
• 34:18
  S3: an opportunity for you. And we've got one of the
• 34:20
  S3: guest speakers with us right now. Leonard. Thanks, junior. He
• 34:23
  S3: is a pastor out of the Cleveland area at Reach
• 34:26
  S3: City Church. You know, the opportunity for men to gather.
• 34:30
  S3: It doesn't come as naturally sometimes as women. I think
• 34:33
  S3: women gather more naturally. But men. Boy, oh, boy, do
• 34:37
  S3: you guys need each other. I'm going to step out
• 34:39
  S3: and let you and Carl talk about that.
• 34:41
  S5: We need each other, pastor. Tanks. It's true, isn't it?
• 34:44
  S9: Absolutely, absolutely. We definitely need each other. I mean, so, um,
• 34:48
  S9: one of my big things that our elders, our church, know,
• 34:51
  S9: is like, I'm like, man, I love our ladies and
• 34:53
  S9: we want to see our ladies in the kingdom. But
• 34:55
  S9: my big push is, man, we got to go after men.
• 34:58
  S9: And so we walk the streets doing prayer walks, only
• 35:01
  S9: talking to men and really trying to show men what
• 35:04
  S9: it looks like to have a community around them and
• 35:06
  S9: to know, um, that they can be loved on. And
• 35:09
  S9: so I think men being equipped, men growing. Um, I
• 35:13
  S9: tell our guys all the time, our ladies can't go
• 35:15
  S9: get our men, right. The men have to go get
• 35:18
  S9: our men. And so we have to learn to be leaders.
• 35:20
  S9: We have to learn to be bold. We have to
• 35:22
  S9: learn to lead with our lives, lead with our actions,
• 35:25
  S9: lead with evangelism and disciple making and all of those things.
• 35:28
  S9: And so I'm super excited anytime I can get in
• 35:31
  S9: a room and see a bunch of men present and
• 35:34
  S9: willing saying, hey, I just want to grow. I want
• 35:36
  S9: to learn, um, and be quick to go do what
• 35:39
  S9: it is that God has called us to do.
• 35:41
  S5: How fundamental. And probably setting you up with the T
• 35:45
  S5: ball here, but I'm going to let you crush it.
• 35:48
  S5: How fundamental is humility, as Andrew Murray calls it, the
• 35:52
  S5: one virtue that gives birth to every virtue. There comes
• 35:55
  S5: a point in time for any man when we got
• 35:58
  S5: to come to the end of ourself, and when God
• 36:01
  S5: catches them there. That's beautiful, isn't it, pastor?
• 36:04
  S9: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think as men, it's easy to
• 36:07
  S9: think that we don't even need anyone or to think
• 36:09
  S9: that we got it on our own. And we're strong
• 36:11
  S9: in our in our own strength. And I think that
• 36:14
  S9: men when we when when we as men embrace this
• 36:17
  S9: concept of humility, this concept of of being like a
• 36:20
  S9: little child. Um, it unlocks something that can seem a
• 36:24
  S9: little weak at first, but that the outcomes of it
• 36:27
  S9: later becomes, um, astronomical. I remember my discipler, um, me
• 36:32
  S9: wanting to go fight somebody. I'm at his house, and
• 36:35
  S9: I learned somebody stole something, and I found out who
• 36:37
  S9: it was, and I'm like, I'm about to go get him.
• 36:39
  S9: And he stood in front of the door and he said,
• 36:41
  S9: you're gonna have to. You're gonna have to fight me
• 36:42
  S9: if you want to fight him. And I'm like, I
• 36:44
  S9: ain't about to be no punk. Boom boom boom. And
• 36:46
  S9: I was in tears, crying because I felt like I
• 36:48
  S9: was being weak by not going to handle this situation. Um,
• 36:52
  S9: and I still remember that to this day, because that
• 36:55
  S9: was a pivotal moment of me choosing to submit to
• 36:58
  S9: a man and his leadership and his wisdom. And that was,
• 37:01
  S9: and I believe that if I would have went out
• 37:03
  S9: that door that day, I would have went back into
• 37:05
  S9: everything that I was doing. But because I allowed myself
• 37:08
  S9: to be humble and to submit to another man and
• 37:11
  S9: to allow a man to lead, that, it began to
• 37:13
  S9: help me move forward. And I think that also is
• 37:16
  S9: how it looks in our ability to trust God as
• 37:18
  S9: a man, as a father, to humble ourselves and allow
• 37:21
  S9: him to lead our lives, and to be able to
• 37:22
  S9: see what happens when we get off the steering wheel
• 37:25
  S9: and acknowledge that we are weak and we need him.
• 37:27
  S9: So that's my thoughts on it.
• 37:29
  S5: I gotta tell you, pastor, I don't know where you've
• 37:31
  S5: been my whole life, but I feel like I have
• 37:33
  S5: found my brother from another mom and I mean that
• 37:35
  S5: from the bottom of my heart, bro. This is so rich. What?
• 37:39
  S5: What keeps that? Yeah. It's so cool, Leonard. I mean,
• 37:43
  S5: it's so awesome hearing you just. I mean, half the
• 37:46
  S5: stuff you're saying, I feel like. Oh, you know what
• 37:49
  S5: I'm saying?
• 37:50
  S3: Oh, yeah.
• 37:51
  S5: Oh, it's like, what in the world? What keeps men
• 37:54
  S5: from getting on the path to discipleship? What prevents them?
• 37:57
  S5: You're talking to tens of thousands of men right now.
• 38:01
  S5: What keeps them stuck?
• 38:03
  S9: Uh, honestly, I tell our guys all the time it's pride.
• 38:06
  S9: It's the idea of, again, not feeling like I don't
• 38:10
  S9: want a man telling me what to do. Sometimes discipleship
• 38:13
  S9: looks like somebody's got to tell me what to do.
• 38:15
  S9: And as men, sometimes we just, you know, when we
• 38:18
  S9: want to do what we want to do. You want
• 38:19
  S9: another man telling you, hey, man, don't don't go over
• 38:22
  S9: that girl house like, hey, you gotta stop that gambling. Hey, man,
• 38:24
  S9: you gotta stop. You can't be going out to these
• 38:26
  S9: clubs drinking. You can't be, you know? Hey, you gotta
• 38:28
  S9: love your wife better, right? That that as a man
• 38:30
  S9: is like. Yo, who you talking to? Um. And I
• 38:33
  S9: think that arrogance and that pride is a big thing
• 38:36
  S9: that keeps men from choosing to submit to another man.
• 38:40
  S9: And it's a very interesting dynamic. We ain't got no
• 38:42
  S9: time to talk about it now. But you'll see, even
• 38:44
  S9: in a lot of contexts, at least in my context,
• 38:47
  S9: men will submit to women leadership a lot more quicker
• 38:50
  S9: than they would even submit to a male leadership because
• 38:52
  S9: of that, that pride and that arrogance. And sometimes it
• 38:55
  S9: deals with the fact that a lot of single mom,
• 38:57
  S9: single mom households or men have been, in my context,
• 39:00
  S9: has been used to submitting to women leadership their whole life.
• 39:02
  S9: So it's different when a man comes around. But yeah,
• 39:05
  S9: but I would say pride and arrogance.
• 39:07
  S5: Pastor, this has been epic. Give us a sneak peak.
• 39:09
  S5: What are you going to be dishing up at Walk Worthy?
• 39:12
  S9: Yeah. So actually, uh, it's going to be about discipleship. Uh, so,
• 39:15
  S9: you know, I'm going to be doing a contemporary look
• 39:18
  S9: at the book of Haggai, um, and Haggai and God's
• 39:20
  S9: complaint against the people of Israel, focusing on their self-interest
• 39:23
  S9: over building his temple and doing a contemporary look at
• 39:26
  S9: we are now the temple, and that the building of
• 39:28
  S9: this temple is the establishment of his house, and that
• 39:30
  S9: God's complaint against us. It's the same thing that we're
• 39:33
  S9: more focused on our own lives instead of building his
• 39:35
  S9: kingdom and his house. And so it's about discipleship. I'm
• 39:38
  S9: going to be telling the people exactly what you just
• 39:41
  S9: said walking worthy. It's not just about walking ethically, but
• 39:44
  S9: it's also about walking missionally. And if we can't just
• 39:47
  S9: have good conduct, but ignore the mission of God and
• 39:49
  S9: say that we're walking worthy as men of God.
• 39:51
  S5: Holy smokes.
• 39:53
  S3: You want the details? This is a one day power
• 39:55
  S3: packed men's conference walk worthy. It's in Akron, Ohio. I
• 40:00
  S3: would invite you to get there if you are local
• 40:02
  S3: and you can get there in person. You can also
• 40:05
  S3: participate via live stream. Just text the word walk to
• 40:08
  S3: 800 555 7898. Text walk to 805, five, five, 7898
• 40:16
  S3: and make sure that you click on that link, because
• 40:19
  S3: if you want to participate the live stream, we actually
• 40:21
  S3: have some tickets to give away so that you can
• 40:24
  S3: participate virtually. So make sure that you click on that
• 40:27
  S3: link and enter to try to win. Before you buy
• 40:30
  S3: the tickets, just text walk to 800 555 7898.
• 40:35
  S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl
• 40:39
  S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.
• 40:41
  S5: Pray in the spirit on all occasions. With this in mind,
• 40:44
  S5: be alert and always keep on praying for all the
• 40:47
  S5: Lord's people. Ephesians 618 I urge you then first of all,
• 40:52
  S5: that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made for all people.
• 40:58
  S5: First Thessalonians 525 brothers and sisters, pray for us. I
• 41:05
  S5: thank God. Philippians one three through four every time I
• 41:09
  S5: remember you in all my prayers for all of you,
• 41:12
  S5: I always pray with joy. What? Ah, man. It goes
• 41:15
  S5: over and over and over in Scripture. We don't do
• 41:17
  S5: this often here because, um, I think that those, those
• 41:21
  S5: verses are best applied in the local church, for sure.
• 41:25
  S5: And we're coming alongside the church. But from time to
• 41:27
  S5: time we say, let's go. So tee it up right
• 41:30
  S5: now in 3 or 4. Max five words. What do
• 41:33
  S5: you need prayer for? We're going to cover as many
• 41:35
  S5: of these themes as possible. We won't be able to
• 41:38
  S5: get every one perfectly read at all, but we're going
• 41:42
  S5: to do the best we can to lift you up
• 41:44
  S5: in prayer. 805 55 7898 800 555 7898 and at
• 41:52
  S5: the end of this segment, we've got a request of
• 41:54
  S5: how you can pray for us. It goes two ways,
• 41:57
  S5: doesn't it guys?
• 41:57
  S2: Oh, absolutely. Yes, prayer is great when we're all praying
• 42:01
  S2: for each other.
• 42:01
  S5: Hang on.
• 42:03
  S1: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to Carl and crew.
• 42:07
  S5: We're praying for you here. And we're getting crushed with requests.
• 42:11
  S5: And this is awesome. And God sees and we're going
• 42:13
  S5: to we're going to actually pray through. With our eyes
• 42:16
  S5: open as we go through this board. And we're going
• 42:19
  S5: to give it a good shot here. But oh man,
• 42:22
  S5: what a beautiful thing. 800 555 7898 we'll get as
• 42:26
  S5: many of these things covered as possible. We're called to
• 42:29
  S5: pray for one another. We don't do this all the time.
• 42:31
  S5: Oh my word. We've got so many here. Ali. Yeah?
• 42:34
  S5: Why don't you jump in, sister? And then I'll. When
• 42:37
  S5: you when you feel like, uh, you're, you've got what
• 42:40
  S5: you've Lord's laid on your heart. I'll pick up some
• 42:43
  S5: and I'll wrap it up. Okay?
• 42:44
  S3: Okay.
• 42:45
  S5: All right.
• 42:46
  S3: Lord, we thank you for the privilege of being able
• 42:48
  S3: to come to you boldly. Yes. To ask for grace
• 42:52
  S3: and mercy in our time of need. God, you are
• 42:55
  S3: our help. And so, Lord, I just bring before you
• 42:58
  S3: so many different health needs that have been brought before us. God,
• 43:02
  S3: there's a need for healing, for high blood pressure, and
• 43:06
  S3: for other kind of troubling symptoms. Lord, there's financial needs.
• 43:10
  S3: Got a need for reconciliation between loved ones, Lord. There's
• 43:14
  S3: a need for someone who is struggling with anger. God.
• 43:19
  S3: Someone who needs wisdom for the sale of a property. Lord.
• 43:22
  S3: For decisions that need to be made. God, I pray
• 43:25
  S3: that you would lead by your spirit, God, for financial strain. Lord, where?
• 43:29
  S3: Where there's need and there's a feeling of lack. God,
• 43:32
  S3: I pray that you would provide. God, I pray for
• 43:35
  S3: this very, very sweet prayer request that simply says that
• 43:38
  S3: I be pure in heart. God, thank you that by
• 43:41
  S3: the power of your blood, Lord, we are made new
• 43:44
  S3: when we turn to you. God, when we confess our sins, God,
• 43:48
  S3: we receive healing and forgiveness. God, I thank you, Lord,
• 43:52
  S3: for the person who is requesting Lord, wisdom and boldness.
• 43:56
  S3: Lord Jesus, I pray that you would. Oh, that's a
• 43:58
  S3: prayer that you delight to answer. Yeah, God, I pray
• 44:00
  S3: for physical healing. Lord, for someone who is trapped in
• 44:03
  S3: a domestic violence situation. Lord. Uh, for pain in the body. God. Uh, Lord,
• 44:08
  S3: for this prayer request for spiritual laziness. God, I pray
• 44:12
  S3: that you would stir up the gifts in that person, God,
• 44:14
  S3: that you would bring a fresh zeal and a wisdom.
• 44:18
  S5: Yeah, God, we got someone here that wants a husband
• 44:22
  S5: to be saved. Oh, hear her heart, Lord. We've got
• 44:26
  S5: healing for family members. We've got someone struggling with loneliness here, Lord.
• 44:31
  S5: Be near to them. Who? We've got someone who's just
• 44:37
  S5: praying for the lost in general. What a sweet thing
• 44:39
  S5: that is. Lord, that's your heart. We got prayers for
• 44:43
  S5: daughters and sons right here. And another husband's salvation and
• 44:48
  S5: a marriage that's in bad shape right now. Family business
• 44:52
  S5: needs help. Financial strain. Got alcohol addiction. Lord, these are
• 44:58
  S5: real things. These are people crying out to you and God.
• 45:02
  S5: I'm so grateful that they're that they're laying it on
• 45:05
  S5: the line here. That's that's the first step, isn't it?
• 45:07
  S5: God just seeing their need and then coming to you
• 45:10
  S5: saying we need help. Lord. Divorce, healing for a sister,
• 45:16
  S5: an ex-husband's soul, reconciliation with kids. Wow. Somebody's got a
• 45:25
  S5: hoarding problem. Someone's got a laziness problem. And that's a
• 45:30
  S5: vulnerable thing. Pain relief, restoration of a marriage, unbelieving son,
• 45:37
  S5: sick mom and dad, prodigals everywhere here. God, we've got
• 45:42
  S5: a lot of that. And what a sweet thing that
• 45:45
  S5: we get to come to you and all these and
• 45:47
  S5: so many more that we didn't even mention. But you
• 45:50
  S5: see them. You hold them as bulls in your presence,
• 45:53
  S5: and that's awesome. And Lord, we just come to you
• 45:58
  S5: and we say, you are rich in mercy. You are good. Uh,
• 46:02
  S5: you have laid before us an opportunity and in your
• 46:07
  S5: willingness to hear our prayers and move God. We ask
• 46:09
  S5: you to do it. Ask you to do it in
• 46:12
  S5: the name of Jesus. Amen.
• 46:14
  S3: Amen.
• 46:15
  S5: And let it be. Wow. Two things hit me. A
• 46:19
  S5: lot of pain, a lot of concern. All. All that
• 46:21
  S5: trials galore. But an all knowing mighty God who is
• 46:27
  S5: his arm is not too short and he is willing
• 46:29
  S5: to move. It's a beautiful thing. I want you to
• 46:32
  S5: live with your head on a swivel. Those of you
• 46:35
  S5: that we're praying for you and you put these out
• 46:37
  S5: there before the Lord, just live with your head on
• 46:39
  S5: a swivel. Because when we pray, God goes to work.
• 46:43
  S5: And we can be confident in that. So look around
• 46:46
  S5: when I say, live with your head on a swivel.
• 46:48
  S5: Anticipate oh my goodness. Not not demand, but anticipate that
• 46:54
  S5: God is working in some way. And look and watch
• 46:57
  S5: and be in awe of of watching him move. We're
• 47:00
  S5: going to see answers to these prayers today. We will
• 47:03
  S5: see that maybe in a month, maybe in a year,
• 47:07
  S5: maybe like George Mueller. After you've gone home, your wayward
• 47:10
  S5: kid will come home. It's okay. God is able. Well,
• 47:16
  S5: we want to give you a request that we have.
• 47:19
  S5: That's what's cool about prayer. And we really mean this.
• 47:23
  S5: I let me back away from any kind of pseudo
• 47:29
  S5: scripted thoughts in my brain and just cut it to you. Honestly,
• 47:33
  S5: we got a whopper job of a deal going here
• 47:36
  S5: in two weeks. We're raising, like, 4 million bucks. And
• 47:41
  S5: here's the truth. We're listener supported. We can't do it
• 47:44
  S5: without you. You've heard that umpteen times. We aren't raising
• 47:49
  S5: money and trying to hit a budget. We're reaching people.
• 47:53
  S5: So here's the thing. Even me, Mr. Optimist, I look
• 47:58
  S5: at this number every every spring share. Every fall share.
• 48:01
  S5: And I'm like, oh. How in the world is this
• 48:05
  S5: gonna happen?
• 48:06
  S3: It always feels really big.
• 48:08
  S5: It's big. And so we've been recruiting prayers for a
• 48:12
  S5: long time, and I'm asking you to hit the front lines.
• 48:14
  S5: We've got a couple of prayers of specificity this year
• 48:17
  S5: that we're going to bring. But I'm asking you to
• 48:20
  S5: grab a half an hour. In fact, fill in more
• 48:21
  S5: details here.
• 48:22
  S3: Yeah. We're asking you to sign up for a 30
• 48:25
  S3: minute time slot. We've got ten slots per half hour,
• 48:28
  S3: so ten people across the country will be praying at
• 48:30
  S3: the same time. And then that next half hour starts
• 48:33
  S3: and the baton gets handed off to someone else. So
• 48:35
  S3: you can pray wherever you are in the country, whether
• 48:38
  S3: you are in your home, your car, a walk and
• 48:40
  S3: we'll send you details on what to pray for. I
• 48:43
  S3: know that really helps. Just text crew will get you
• 48:46
  S3: signed up. That's your first step. C r e w
• 48:48
  S3: crew two 800 555 7898. Text crew to 800 555
• 48:56
  S3: 7898 I want to say thank you for praying for us.
• 49:00
  S5: Yeah, we've already got over 400 in 1 day. 200
• 49:03
  S5: to go.