Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / #99 - Ryan Becker

Transcript

#99 - Ryan Becker · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up guys?
• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm super excited today to bring you an episode with none other than Ryan Becker, one of the most consistent athletes to probably ever grace our sport.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Ryan was kind enough to come on the podcast and talk about his life.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: He shared a story and I really appreciate it.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: It was a really fun episode.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: We got into some of the issues he'd been dealing with with his Achilles injury.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: We talked about sponsorship.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: We talked about just consistency in the sport and how, how Ryan has just maintained and had the ability to just stay so consistent and healthy, um, despite battling so many of his Achilles issues throughout his career.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Um, we talked about, you know, racing goals and how his goals have kind of changed over the last few years, um, as he's moved from the sub ultra and uh to the 50 K distance, as well as looking at some of the longer stuff for the potential future.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: This was a great conversation.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I got to be honest with you.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: It was one of.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: It was really fun to see the way Ryan thinks and the way he approaches the sport like a consummate professional, and it was cool to see who he admires and who he looks up to as he's kind of grown in the sport over the years.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: It is a personal favorite of mine.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Really, ryan is someone I've looked up to in the sport since I kind of got into it and, like I said, he's just so consistent and just one of the best athletes you know potentially to come have come in our sport in the last five years or so.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: So here we go Without further ado, ryan Becker.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we are live colors.
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• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Ryan Becker, welcome to the steep stuff podcast.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: How are you man?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Thank you, yeah, thanks for having me.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: I'm great, and yourself.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: I'm doing good, man, I'm doing good.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I'm stoked to really like, really excited to have you on the podcast.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Like I've known about you for a long time, like followed you in the sport, you've been in the sport.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: You've been in the sport for what?
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: The last like five or six years.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: It's crazy to think that, like since 2019, like shit, like fast, time goes by fast.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, man, just excited to finally have a conversation and, uh, get you on the pot.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: How's your uh, how's your day going?
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: good, yeah, going good.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: I actually ran this morning with um, dylan, uh bowman and lindsey up at big rock, so yeah, we had a pretty beautiful inversion over there.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a beautiful inversion for the 6AM TAM group also.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: But yeah, always good to start the day with a little sunrise.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: That's kind of what it's all about, eh, for sure, for sure.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Now you just came off second place at what was the Lake Sonoma Marathon.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: The Marathon yeah, a hard-fought second.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was good.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: But Dan, yeah, Dan Jones is just, uh, world class and he managed to break away on the on the final downhill.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: But, um, yeah, I, I think that was like a pretty.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I was pretty excited with that result.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Um, obviously, if I'd managed to hold it together a little better, it would have been a little more talked about maybe.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: But no, it was kind of not a last minute entry, but Lindsay and I always spend kind of the Telluride off season out here in California and that race just made sense with our timing to kind of do a hard effort after like a pretty snowy winter and then have three weeks of base training basically.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I'm super stoked with how that race went nice yeah, man, I mean it's always fun, I mean especially with big alta.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: And then this to like mix it up with world-class competition.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: It's always good to see where you're at and like early yeah so big all times?
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: definitely I was.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: I was disappointed with the results, but not with how it happened.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I like had the flu pretty bad in the weeks leading up to that race so I like kind of missed quite a bit of training and, um, yeah, I think that course suits me, probably could suit me really well.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Um, so I was, I was disappointed that I had to come into that race after missing like quite a bit of training.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: But even for that race I was pretty happy with how it went with.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'd run probably like 15 miles in the last two weeks before that race or something dumb so it was.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was good to also kind of get that one, and that did set me up for Lake Sonoma also, the muscle damage had been done.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: So it was a nice stepping stone and the community for Big Alta was really great too.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: To kind of come out of Telluride is like a very small town and you kind of can be like heads down for a while.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: So it's nice to like go to a race where a lot of your friends who are your competitors are and kind of like catch up with everyone and, you know, get your feet wet a little bit before the summer really kicks off for sure, for sure.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: How's uh like how you feeling after both races?
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: you starting to recover pretty well yeah, I mean I was messed up after big alto, like I don't know if I've had quad damage that bad ever.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: But as you like had maybe gathered if you had done any like browsing on my Instagram or anything, I would like have a notorious like Achilles problem, but the last probably 18 months has been going pretty well.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: So if I like leave any race and am not like oh, that was like really damaging in a bad way to the Achilles tendon, like muscle damage is nothing to tendon damage, because you'll just need a couple of days from that anyway.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: So I'm always happy to just bounce and I'm a big like cyclist as well after any kind of race, like just hop on the bike next the next day and like if I wanted to like potentially get a session in, but I'm not like shuffling around, um, because I like biking almost more than running sometimes.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I'm happy to hop on the bike, usually, um, after any kind of hard effort, for as long as it takes to get the soreness to go away.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about you a little bit, man.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: So you're in your, you reside in Telluride.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: How do you, how do you like?
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I asked Lindsay this question so I'm sure you probably knew this one was common.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: But like, how do you, how do you like living there, cause it's I mean, it's a great place to train in the summer from there.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Like it's got its pros and cons right.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Like, how do you like that?
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's just like more generally, to like any it's anywhere you're going to live ever is like there's pros and cons.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: So, as long as you that's what I've said in the past to Lindsay, because we were never going to be there full time, we were just kind of there.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: She maybe told you that story, but we were kind of just there for like a month and then it was COVID and like return to office just kept getting pushed back, pushed back, and so we ended up obviously staying here.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Now I don't know what is the third or fourth year that we'll be there, but yeah, I think just so, like I always told her, it's just like as long as we're like OK with the tradeoffs that we're making for the benefits that we think we're getting, then it's a good place to live, and I think that's the case anywhere.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's it's far away from like a lot of things and you know if your car needs to get serviced, it's like a pain in the ass to like drive three hour round trip to like get to the nearest town that has reasonable prices.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Like grocery prices are really high.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: It is a long winter.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: You do have like the I don't know if you saw that like documentary about like depression and veil, like in a resort town, like there are these like high highs and low lows and and not just in like partying or things like that, or like you're like more than half of like during the on season, the people who are like in the town or like on vacation and you're like working, serving.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: You know there's that dynamic.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: But it's also just like living in a place like as beautiful as Telluride.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: You're kind of like well, if I'm not like doing a huge mountain thing like you know, know you're you want to do that every day but you can't and so you do have these, you have to always be like walking the line or just like knowing the trade-offs, having that balance.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: So that's all to say.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Telluride is awesome and it it is hard sometimes.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean even like I was a little into schemo Lindsay I met in Boulder on the front range and that's kind of why I got into alpine a little bit before it really not before it took off, but before people started talking about the Olympics and things like that and when it was like a way more casual activity is kind of what I mean like I'm no, like schemo racer or anything.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I just kind of like doing some fitness skiing, um, but yeah, in the winter in Telluride, like getting out on the resort before it opens, like doing a couple laps with the dog or catching the sunrise or just ripping a couple groomers, like, and you drove there and it took you three minutes from your house, you know what I mean.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Like that's pretty awesome.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Um, and then, yeah, and this summer is the reason we moved, moved there, tried it out in the first place and it's like it is world class, like it's pretty, it's pretty freaking awesome.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Um, we, I remember, like lindsay, I went to europe a couple years ago and I was kind of just like ready to get back home because the summer window is really short and tell you right, also, and you're kind of like I just want to like be home on my home mountain trails.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: So yeah, not a good place, dude.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: This and the san juans are just epic.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's like no shortage of things to do, like there's always like basically day trips you can make out of it.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: And it's, I always feel like for an athlete like yourself, especially on the sub ultra scene and like in that 50k, like in down scene, it's like almost like hard to like because there's so much to do.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: You almost like to have to hold yourself back a little bit, right like yeah, or even like I think um, in the past, like we've had lindsey and I do like to race a lot typically, but like a lot of the races you want to do are in the summer and then like a lot of the mountain projects you want to do are also in the summer and then.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: So you have to like balance actually, like getting the right training in with like doing those projects and also knowing that you're going to be missing weekends to go to a race.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: So it is like a fine balance and the and the weekends do run short every summer.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Basically, yeah, yeah, that's interesting, it's.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: It's such a cool place to live, do you think you'd?
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: I didn't, actually didn't, did not ask lindsey this question, but you guys, you think you'll be there for a while, like long term, or?
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: um, we yeah, I mean we're we're pretty committed like um, yeah, housing is like a major problem in telluride and obviously in like mountain resort towns more generally, and we're like lucky to not have that problem.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: So we're like pretty grounded there and, yeah, we're looking to to be there for a while and again, like as long as that pro con trade-off list is still more pros and cons, then I think it makes sense to stay there.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, super cool yeah, it's just such a great place to base out of man it's.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, it's dope, but it is.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're always trying to.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, whether we're on the front range or here in california, like right now, we're always like trying to get people to come visit us a little bit, because, yeah, I'd love to like show it off a little bit and also just, yeah, have have some some more training people, or yeah, yeah, yeah, do you have.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: I know, like willie, what's his name?
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: William malem was out there for a while.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I know he was training with you for a bit.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Guy's a freak dude.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Um, what do you have anybody like high level to train with out there anymore, or is it like mostly solo or what's?
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: What's the deal?
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: yeah, it's mostly solo.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Um, willie was like a great asset and we had like run a couple times together when we lived in boulder.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: But that's kind of when I was like really just getting started um after graduating and he was like so far, so much better than I was as an athlete that we I was never like training with him in boulder but yeah, it was awesome when he was in telluride and we could do um he would yeah pull me along on the bike path or whatever, and I mean even for himself like he knows how to push himself like really way too hard anyway, and so just like trying to hang on to each other because also you're coming from like that's another piece of telluride is, it is so high and even like, if you're coming from boulder, which is at 52, 55, whatever, which is altitude, and you're used to hitting like splits that are maybe like a little slower than you ran at sea level or maybe you're fit enough to do that, and then you come up to telluride and you like try to run those splits again and you're going to be like dry, heaving or just like not able to run those times, but willie would like push himself to be like still running those times.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: So he was, he was a good one to get to get drug along to.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: But no, there's.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: There's another like young, young fellow in town, spencer Keating, who's like a Telluride local.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: He grew up there and he has been kind of taking some of my kom's the last like couple years, last summer, and he also has that like insane.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Like at this point I'm, I'm like 30, I'm not really like going to the well and training anymore, but like when you're young I think you still can do that a lot.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: And so he is like putting some like insane like race efforts almost.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: I feel like on some of these climbs and I'm like, oh shit, like I that's.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: That's like a motivator to, yeah, get back and get in shape, that sort of thing yeah, no, that's super cool, that's interesting too.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know, depending on like geographic location, like sometimes you'll get like I'm in the springs, right, and there's no shortage of psychos out here to train with yeah like people take it.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: So it's also like funny though, because I'm older now I'm 34 and it's like you see people like leave race efforts on strava all the time and it's like why would you do that versus, like you know, save that for the race day, I don't know well, it's just easy.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I mean like you can get like a if you put a big kom down or something like, then you to get a hundred kudos on it and you didn't have to travel or do the race.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think, and that's kind of like, that's still like just social media in general nowadays is it is just like putting out these big efforts or you know impressive something, just to like show off a little bit.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think, yeah, I.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: That's the reason why I think um and covid played a role in that too.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, no one was really that wasn't like in my vocabulary like fkts before the covid era, when people couldn't race, and so I think there is like there has been like some establishment and then also just like continued interest in like fkts more generally.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: But I agree with you in that I hate when people are like oh yeah, big fkt and it's like a you know half mile segment somewhere, like something done.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Like that.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: This is kind of like, yeah, you should probably just do a workout rep and not be like racing, something dumb exactly, exactly yeah it's true we'll get into travel later on, but yeah, it's an interesting, it's a funny, funny thing.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I got to, I got to pivot to.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Um, let's talk about your origin story, man, maybe give me like the five minute, like pitch on like tennis.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Talk to me about like Washington university.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I dug a little deep, man, I prepared for this interview.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Um, I thought it was funny just because, like I'm, you got to raise some Remy LaRue, who I'm sure you met at, uh, big alta.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: He's another tennis guy, so I'm starting to see more tennis guys pop up, yeah, uh yeah, soccer's on, soccer's on the out for the pipeline to mountain right now it's just tennis maybe?
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: uh, maybe talk about that, stoked to hear yeah, I mean I I got into running like pretty late.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Um, I did kind of just like try the like team sport thing, but it wasn't really like a perfect fit for me, like I never really felt like, I never really was like loving soccer or anything like that.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I found tennis like a little later, um, either just before high school or kind of around that time, and I I really liked that a lot.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I I don't know if I appreciated when I first started, but like tennis is like a huge mental component to it, um, and like obviously a skill component more than like necessarily fitness, and so that's kind of like a fun thing to be trying to master um.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: But um, it was like clear then like I was never gonna, you know, do anything really with tennis.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: At the time I was kind of I was like starting to do like you send out kind of videos to colleges in addition to your results with tennis, because they're like looking at your form and things like that.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: So I was making those and I was starting to kind of float those around.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: But ultimately, like the colleges I was looking to apply to it was likely that I was not going to be able to make the team, maybe like a club team or something, but when you're sending those videos you're obviously not sending it to a club.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: But then my junior year I was kind I was laughing with Lindsay about this.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: I have ulcerative colitis, which I was kind of laughing about Cause, like Grayson Murphy just got this like Crohn's diagnosis and I was like man, I should have been cashing in on this ulcerative colitis thing for a long time, but no, luckily mine is like well in remission and it sounds like she just got hurt.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: So it's a completely different but.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: But I had a bad flare-up and as a result, I have like really weakened bones and so I actually got this like really bizarre and rare fracture in my hand so I couldn't play tennis for a while.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I was trying to like let this heal and so I was kind of just like jogging around trying to stay fit for the next season and then eventually did come back but had been running more.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: And it was kind of just like jogging around trying to stay fit for the next season and then eventually did come back but had been running more and it was kind of like pushing the boundary of of running um, like as an exploratory kind of thing like, oh, I wonder if I can run four miles, six miles, eight miles like, and I remember especially like one eight mile run I did.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I must have been a junior in high school at this point and I was like wow, if remember, especially like one eight mile run I did.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I must have been a junior in high school at this point and I was like wow, if I haven't run eight miles, like only three more of those, like basically a marathon, like I should probably do a marathon this summer and so that.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: So so that was my like intro into running a little bit.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: And so the next high school year, my senior year, I um sort of walked onto the track team and also played tennis in the fall, but then I was um, or I guess would have been cross country.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: But then after that I was kind of just like loving running too much and so I stopped playing tennis and started running a lot more and eventually I reached out.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: I had like got into Wash U where I went to school, washington University in St Louis, and way too slow to like to join the team.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: But the coach there, jeff Stiles, was like you're welcome and like try out, of course, and so I did eventually do that and had already been like running more and more.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: I did a second marathon that summer just to kind of see how much I improved.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: And the first, the first year I ran the first marathon with you know, tennis interest training, I think around like four hours, 15 minutes.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: It was like the hardest thing I've ever done.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Had to stop like several times and like like get down on the pavement because my legs were like so hurting, so bad.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: And then the next year I ran like 256 and I was like all right, well, if I keep doing this, I'll probably like if I can keep this curve up.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: So I did walk onto the team eventually and yeah, under that kind of training, curiosity plus, with the guidance of Coach Stiles, I ran all four years there and had a great time, had success, a little bit of success there, success, a little bit of success there.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Um, shout out division three.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I think that's how you breed people who just love the sport.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: For years, um know a ton of D one friends who don't run anymore and I'd still love it.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: So that that, I think, was like a major factor in trail running down the road is cause I just still loved running and I was never pushed too hard to make me hate it during those like formative college years.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: So let's unpack that a little bit.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: So you're, you were D three, all American, which is like insane, pretty crazy, like it's just, it's interesting to me Cause, like you come from, like being reasonably fit in high school to being, like you, just achieved such a high level really quickly in college, like, was that just?
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously genetics have to play probably a massive role, but probably coaching as well, being able to have the right coaches around you to help you get to that level, would you, would you agree with that?
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Or?
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: I would say coaching a little bit, um, but actually because I was not recruited to run and was like you can walk on, I had kind of trained myself so that I'd be ready for this walk on, and that was that was basically just running a lot of mileage.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: And then after then I walked on and was kind of like on the you know JV tier of the team and so you don't get like a lot of handholding anything like that, and so I continued just to run a lot of high mileage and like built up my base, probably just really quickly.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: And then the next year I don't know if it was like sophomore year I had just like taken such a big step up that, um, jeff was basically coach styles, was like whatever you're doing, just keep doing it, and so he would like still like write workouts for me and I would mostly do like everything that was written.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: But a large component of my training has just been like figuring it out for myself and keep doing what's working, and at that time it was just like a ton of mileage and so so coaching does play a role, obviously, obviously, but part of the appeal of running, I think, to many people especially, I mean when you're growing, like that is, you do get better at it every year if you just keep doing it.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: So for me that was just like doing it to like probably an unhealthy amount that I think like directly it did directly lead to my Achilles injuries.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Um that one summer I was running like 130, I think at 140 mile week, but a ton of 100 mile weeks for for years and then it was just like ultimately a little too much for the achilles but it did get me like pretty fit in a relatively short time span.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: So mileage is mileage does work, but it will also break you if you do it in the wrong way.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the Achilles both Achilles tendons, cause I you were pretty candid in Instagram posts, like semi-recently, about like how you considered before last season getting in like surgeries on both of them.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Um, when I did some research for this, uh, just like you said, like you you'd kind of had struggles with the achilles tendon all the way back to college too, so this is something that's been going on for a long time, right yeah, yep, I, I, I fully tore my left tendon at um d3 cross nationals my junior year, which I well, luckily it was like 400, 200 meters from the finish line so I was able to finish and that was my first All-American too.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: So it was like such a bizarre mix of like this really high moment, but also like in the next week I realized that I wasn't gonna be able to run for like months, so again kind of a high, high, low, low, but so that was kind of the left side.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Ultimately I didn't need surgery then and got back into it eventually, but I had already been running that high mileage and I knew it had worked and so I still tried to rush back into it and I think that was that was when like the right one started going as well and like I really didn't allow the left one to heal completely during my college years, and so it that led to me like taking a ton of time off after graduating and just getting into biking more seriously, which has had like a super positive impact on my athletic career.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: But but yeah, I mean, the last two years of college being so injured year and a half, I guess was like a really tough time because I just been feeling like like I said like I got better every year and I was running more every year, and then to just feel like and I'd never been injured because I, my running career was so short by that point, then then be injured for like so long was like a really really tough time.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: But uh, yeah, we I spent a lot of time on the altergy that that spring and um, yeah, my senior year was kind of a bummer because you you plan, of course, like this perfect season for yourself when you're just like riding these highs.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: And then I didn't end up racing that much senior year but luckily I was still able to start um cross nationals and yeah, somehow like a ton of altergy miles like paid off again, um, for that race.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: That's insane.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Oh man, dude, how did?
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: How did trails come into the mix, like at what point in time?
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Was like 15, 16, you do, you ran your first, at least that's what I saw an ultra sign up.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: But, when did you start getting the itch for that?
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: I had moved to Minneapolis for my first job out of college and there's like a park there that a friend of mine had recommended.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: I go to Afton State Park, which I know Justin Grunewald also runs a lot at.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: He had, like I remember also seeing like on Strava at the time, like who's this guy that can like run so freaking fast out here?
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: But anyway, so that was kind of my first foray into like running a little more on trails more intentionally.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: But also, like growing up in Appalachia and Tennessee, I did run on trails.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: It was just kind of like I didn't know that trail running was like a sport and even like in Minnesota, like trail trail running.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: There was like a Minnesota state champ for trail running at Afton, but it was never like I never thought it was like a global phenomenon or anything like that.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Um, but I was still interested in running and I was, I was still trying to run at a high level and, um, my teammates and I from college as well as like everyone else who's on this site uses, use this really outdated logging site called logger run and um, noah drotty also used that site, even as a professional, and so we just were like obsessed with noah.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: We were like see these insane workouts all the time.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: And I remember that it has like a messaging feature for an activity and I had, I think I just messaged him on log run like something, and we became like a little close and he was like, hey, man, like if you are serious about like getting into running or like running at a higher level, like come out to Boulder and stay with me and just like see what it's all about.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: And so I had I had taken like a trip out to see him.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: I was like instantly hooked on Boulder.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: And then I was just like, man, how can I like get out here, Like I have to just somehow get out here?
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: And so I applied at my job I would like talk to my manager to see about um telecommuting.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: It wasn't remote at the time, it was telecommuting and so he was like, yeah, it's fine with me.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: And so I moved out to boulder that summer must have been 2018 or 2019 and um noah didn't have a spot at his house.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: But he was like, hey, I know this guy who has like spots at his house, that kind of like rotate for athletes.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe you could stay with him.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: And that was Andy Wacker.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: And so I ended up staying at Andy's house and I had just gotten off of like a vacation with my parents in Banff and I'd done some running up there and Banff is like so amazing, beautiful, and was doing like a little trail running up there.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: And then I moved in with Andy and he was like, oh, why don't you like go on this run with me?
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: And we went up to Brainerd and I was like this is exactly what I did on vacation, like it's the exact same thing.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: And I and when I was on vacation I was like, oh man, it's so beautiful, but like this is not my everyday life.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: But here I was in Boulder and I was.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: I was like man, I could make this my everyday life and training.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: And so at the time I was like kind of, you know, testing the waters with a little like short course in 70.3 triathlon.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: But he took me on that one run to brainerd and I was like no, I'm doing trail running.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: And so that was kind of the trail running, um switch, yeah that's crazy man, and he was also and more important, not more importantly, but he was also like a pro with nike, who is like nike was paying him to run on trails, and so it was like here, here is a path like this exists, which was also very new to me at the time.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's insane to me to think like how many careers andy has like had his hand in and like showed so many people like it's crazy.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: I mean the joke used to be like if you lived in boulder, like even the people living in boulder, like there was a 30 chance you lived with andy at some point, you know what I mean like like an athlete of any kind.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Like lived with andy at some point and that was before, like all the trail team stuff.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: It was just like him just like helping people, like get their footing in boulder, so it it is like amazing yeah so crazy.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: How long did you stay in boulder for?
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: um, I was there for three years, I think.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Um, it is, andy's house is also where I met lindsey.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, she moved in as a housemate, so that was also, um, good timing and convenient, but Lindsay and I moved out of Andy's place, like around or during COVID, and that's when we eventually moved to Telluride.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Gotcha, gotcha that makes sense, dude.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: It's so crazy to me because I can remember watching.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: It might have been the 2020, it was either 21 or 22.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: I think it was the october year when broken arrow there was, like they moved the vk and the 23k to october and I think I remember seeing you on the.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: I think that was the year you either got second or third.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: I can't, honestly can't remember.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Um, you've bought, you've run it so many years but you've had so many fantastic finishes.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: But I remember seeing you on the live stream and I was like damn, this kid came out of nowhere.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: It's like I had like some serious finish both at the 23 and the VK.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: So it's just interesting to me, like how you kind of jumped into the sport and have had I'd call you especially.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, dude, we're like five years on now at this point Like you're one of the most consistent athletes on the sub ultra scene, like easily, in my opinion.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: What do you think is the?
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: cause dealt with so many injuries.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: What do you think is like the secret to your consistency and how you've able been been able to do for so long?
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Um, I think it's just like a little running more generally, which is kind of like the type of running I like to do, and so for like I, I have sort of carved out this like space in the like I.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: I love racing vks, but I've done a lot more in the like 50k distance and a lot of that is just because of the availability of that type of race, especially domestically.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: But, um, I think for me, like the 50k is like this, like perfect threshold race, which is also and I was kind of chatting with johnny about this the other day, we were just like talking about training a little bit I just love doing like threshold work, like a ton of threshold work, and like in college I like did a little more speed because that's what you kind of have to do.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: But like I just love going out for three hours and kind of hammering on the bike or on the run or on skis, or like uphill skis, nordic skis, and like a three hour hammer fest is basically just a 50k race and I think for me, like that's just like, like it's what I like to do, like in training, and so it kind of makes sense that that's also like the race distance I've gravitated towards as well, gotcha and it's led to, I mean just like so much consistency as well.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Like what does your training look like now?
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Like, especially like with the tequila stuff.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Like do you like obviously have lesser mileage but more miles on the bike?
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Like what does that look like from time to time?
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it has changed a lot Over the years.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: It's taken a really long time Like now I can kind of look back on this older period of my life, but even when I was in Boulder, you just remember this like athlete that you used to be and you kind of like put that person on a pedestal and are always like striving for that even if it's not your best interest.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: And so I was always kind of like trying to get back to like 120 miles a week, 100 miles a week, and it's taken a long time to like be like no, that's like how you used to train but it probably wasn't healthy for you and there's other things you can do anyway.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: But yeah, and boulders, kind of like split time wise between cycling and running.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Like I remember thinking like kind of my perfect week was like a 15 hour week where seven and a half was running and seven half was biking.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: But now, being in Telluride, it's really seasonally dependent and, like with the Achilles stuff, I've also like learned over the years that you can still get the work in even if you're not running, and that health is really like a lot more important than like hitting a number of run miles on the week and so if I feel like a little niggle or something in the tendon, I can just like shut it down for four days and just bike or ski or whatever.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Um, I can just like shut it down for four days and just bike or ski or whatever Um, so my run miles, like my average run miles, can be like zero miles a week to like.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: If I had like a really healthy and week in the summer where I was like really excited about every run, I might hit 90 like once or twice, something like that, but a lot of biking and, um, definitely in in the winter like quite a bit of skiing also yeah, dude, I think like one of the things that just blew me away was last year your post when you came away at eighth, at broken arrow in the vk there was this most stacked vk and like you were pretty candid.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: You're like, dude, I didn't really train that much like I was trying to do like my, my achilles have been blown up.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: I've been dealing with this and you still had an amazing finish in such a stacked field.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: It's bananas.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: That race was so far off my radar because, yeah, like you said, I was planning on having had Achilles surgery like weeks before that race.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: But there's like a local uphill race in Telluride called the Skidula in the winter and the Rundula in the summer, which is just the g?
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Um ascent course.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: And I did the winter one knowing that I was going to have that surgery and I was kind of like, well, if my Achilles, like if I blow my Achilles during this, who cares?
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: I'm like going to get surgery in two weeks anyway.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: And then I did that race and had a like a long cool down back to the parking lot and I was like I can't, neither Achilles like hurt at all during that.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: And then so I just like canceled the surgeries and I was kind of just like that.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, that whole year that VK at Broken Arrow was the start of it was just like we're just going to be like really cautious, but if things feel good, like maybe we'll jump into a couple of races and that was the kickoff.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: But but again, yeah, that whole winter was just was all because I had taken, I like really messed it up in the, in the fall or maybe even the spring, and so I took like a ton of time off.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: I don't think I'd run for for months, four months or five months, something like that, and that whole winter and it was all just cross training or, you know, skiing and biking.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: So that again just proves like that.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Proves that like you don't need to run a ton of miles to like be good at running yeah, that's fucking nuts dude, how you're able to produce like and you had a great season, I mean like, I know probably not to your standard, but like still like.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Even once you did it, speed goat was insane.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Like you had so many solid finishes, that like and then you go and win Kodiak.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: It's like come on.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: So my thought where I'm going with this is like do you plan to still have the surgeries at some point?
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Are you just going to keep rolling?
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: I think I mean, unfortunately with Achilles stuff like if you get the surgery there is a good chance that you will be able to fix whatever problem you have.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: But you also sort of like diminish your ultimate like max capacity that you can put the tendon through, ok.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: So it is kind of like a delay is long and that's that's kind of like calculus I was doing for the surgeries to begin with, which was like what is my like life outside of running?
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Like Because I wasn't even running and I would still wake up in pain, have to like hobble around the house for three hours before like warmed up enough to walk normally, and so I was like, if that's happening, like it doesn't matter if I can only run at 80% capacity, but like I can't live my life like this anymore.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of like what I'm still thinking, but again, like I seem to have like sort of been able to figure out what is keeping it at bay right now and possibly have healed it.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: We'll see, but, um, for the time being I I'm not thinking about surgery.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, have you.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: So that's an interesting question too.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Like, have you gone to a bunch of pts to get this thing like figured out?
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Like people playing around with it and seeing like all right, maybe I can.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a good buddy of mine shout out to ace who just like he just got calc, he had a growth on his calcaneus and he had to get that thing chipped off Just a Haglund surgery.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: So I see a lot of people with stuff like that.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: But if it's just the tendon, I feel like maybe there's ways around that.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Or Haglunds is yeah, you definitely like need to get, you need to remove that part of the bone to have the tendon like move smoothly over it.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, I would say like a lot of time with PTs, but more time is just like scouring the depths of the internet Because, like, even when I was in college and this first happened, at least at our school's PT clinic, to me it didn't seem like there was any understanding of the differences between, like midpoint and insertional tendonitis, let alone like tendinopathies.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: And so, like a lot of I've, I've just like learned so much about the Achilles tendon and like what has worked for me, like in college it was, um, it was midpoint, but since graduating, both of them are are insertional and that is like a little more severe.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: You get a lot less blood flow down at the heel bone, but they're completely different strategies for how you're going to like repair or like even make the pain go away, for for midpoint versus insertional.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: So even learning that years ago was like an unlock for me.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Um, and then there are like fortunately, now there is like kind of this explosion of this um, you know, like well-rounded athlete on like instagram, youtube, hybrid athletes and as a result of that.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: You also see like a little more like pt content, or at least that's what my instagram feed is.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: It's kind of this and so there are like more people are talking about more ways to like stay healthy in a holistic way and, as a result, you kind of see some more of that.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it was a lot of years of just like reading a ton of like pub med and just like reading any research article on tendons generally that I could like try to understand.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: But, um, but yeah, and and that's what I I feel like I've coached a lot of people through Achilles injuries.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: At this point, like people will reach out to me all the time like I just had this flare up, what do you think like how's it gonna go?
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: And I try to just say people those like hundreds of hours of research that I did and just like tell them exactly what's working.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think there's still, there's still like interesting findings coming out of like tendon health and strength, but hopefully the Achilles one is going to be, at least for me personally, like a bygone era.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude, I love to hear that.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Well, I gotta ask you this then are you, do you spend a lot of time in the gym like you do a lot of lifting and stuff like that, or ply I?
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I don't do any, any plyos or lifting, and it's not something that I like recommend to people at all.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: I just like I haven't carved out the time or I, like you know, I'd almost rather if I have, like if I went for a two-hour run in the morning and I have two hours in the evening, like I'd rather just like go bike for two hours makes sense, and I know that doesn't make me like the best athlete that I could be, but like it's just like more fun to do that dude more about whatever works for you.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Everybody's got their own, their own way of getting to a race, so you know some.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: For instance, dude cam cam spends like five hours in the gym a week.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: The kids have monster.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have seen some of his videos, yeah, and they get pretty.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: And it's not to say that I don't want to spend time.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: It's just like you do have a limited amount of hours in the day and it's kind of just a trade off weekly hours, but he certainly skis a ton, like there's no shortage of fun factor in his life.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Also, it's true it's true.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: All right, dude, let's I gotta get to, uh, the aiming thing I've been trying to like I this is something conversation I've wanted to have with you for a while, especially on the podcast.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: So to me, you are one of the most like I said I said this earlier you're like one of the most consistent athletes that there is in the sport.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: I it is dumbfounding to me as to why you don't have a sponsor yet.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Like what do you think?
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: And like are you looking for one right now?
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely looking.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: I, if you can figure out an answer, you just feel free to message me anytime of the night or day.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think the sport has like changed a little bit.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: Obviously, there's like a lot of conversation around um like what you're doing on your social channels and even at the like pro influencer kind of graying of the line, like I think and and I should say also like my background is in um marketing and brand analytics and so like like I totally understand that like a brand might want to like be paying someone who has like 10x more eyes than like a pro athlete.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: So I understand that narrative.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: But it is like a little frustrating to feel like you've done everything right in some ways and are still kind of just like coming up like just short.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Or you know, there's also like like I don't know how many conversations you've had with athletes around like contract renewals or things like that.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: But there is like a timing window and there's there's like a budget window and there's a team fit and who's the athlete manager and what are they personally looking for and how are they biasing, like what kind of team they're building and how does that person fit with the brand and there's like a million factors and so, yeah, for some reason just hasn't lined up for me.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: But I can certainly understand all of those viewpoints and especially in isolation.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: But yeah, kind of when you like step back for, for me personally not to get to like just focus on me.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: I I do sometimes be like man, how am I, how am I still not sponsored?
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Or like, how or what can I add more value to the brand?
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: And I did like have a little stint with speed land and that was kind of on more like an I would not call that like really a sponsorship and the way that we're talking about is more of like an ambassador level type of thing.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Um, but and and they were at the time like they really just wanted a lot of content and and it's not to say that they were like hard to work with or any anything but um, it was kind of just like I understood what they needed as like a really young brand at the time.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: But and maybe that's that's part of what makes like a good pro athlete to begin with is either like having the availability, or maybe your partner is into photography or your group of friends take a lot of photos during your training runs, but like that's how you can just like pump out like a ton of content and then and now, I think that is like very important to brands.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: I think maybe we're having like slightly more nuanced conversations about partnerships and sponsorships now, but at least like as early or as more as recently as a year or two ago, like it seemed to me like people just wanted like a shit ton of content, which is totally fair, I mean, if that's, and again like if that's what their marketing manager wanted, if that's what their brand manager wanted, like that's still fine.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Or even like I mean you can have the same conversation around like like satisfy, you know they're, they're like going for a certain brand aesthetic and I don't think they're like really all that interested in the like performance piece.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: They don't really care if you were like second or a hundredth, but like what story can you tell over those 200 miles that you ran?
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Like that is what's valuable to that brand.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: And so there there are.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: There are these nuances, of course, that with each brand, but um, but yeah, I, I'm, definitely I'm, would love to be sponsored.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: I think that and that's, that's kind of a growing or not a growing, but um, a maturing of myself as an athlete, like out of college or whatever.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: That was kind of like that was the dream and or that was like that was a piece of the dream that was so major that you couldn't like have something without that component.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: And I've definitely like matured to the point where it's like no, I'm like really just like interested in trail running and I'm interested in the lifestyle of just like being an endurance athlete and what it can unlock for me, and I'm going to keep doing that, whether or not I have certain shirt on or wearing a certain pair of shoes or things like that.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: But but yeah, I mean, for a lot of people like, maybe not for a lot of people, but at least that was like my like really deep craving was to have this sort of like honestly just stamp of approval, to be like you are this good and this is like a company that's telling you that you are and you can kind of take that out.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: But but yeah, I think I think you do gain more confidence and mature a little bit as you, as you get older.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: And that's not to say that people can't do that until they cross 30.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: But, like I know, there's a lot of mature young athletes out there as well, but for me it took like a long time to to sort of separate those two worlds and and really, um, you know, not be not angry, but just like, yeah, disappointed or confused or lost, or I mean even last year, like I really thought.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: I remember thinking like during Kodiak, if I win this, like I'll be sponsored.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: And it was just like crickets.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: Well, dude, I I said this to Lindsay offline after I had her on the pod last week and I was like it was like one of those things.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: It's like what else do you want from me?
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Like, what else do you want me to do?
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: You know, I think that was the frustrating aspect of it was, like you know, you go and win Kodiak.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: You've beaten, quite like quite a number of already sponsored athletes, many of your peers.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: You're widely respected by your peers.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: I just find it frustrating, like if it was me, I'd be very frustrated, because it's like what else do you want from me?
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: You know, like I can, I can clearly do this, I can clearly do all these different things.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: It's like why and there is a lot of athlete managers that listen to this podcast.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Hopefully, hopefully, something comes out of that.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: But, like you know, I don't know I think it was worth the conversation mostly because, one, for the way I feel and two, because you wrote this like beautiful Instagram post man.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: That was just like and I think a lot of like I know, kieran, they commented quite a few, uh, guys that I think peers that really respect you, you know, really understand that Cause I think a lot of guys are in the similar position, you know.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean it's.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: It's tough as well, cause, like I said, like either that was like a race that was too late on the year or, like you know, roster spots were already filled, that sort of thing.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: But it's also like, if you're a brand like, you might just be like more interested on like signing a young person who can like knock it out of the park like and almost to a certain extent, like you could say that consistency is like a negative, and I've thought about that as well as like what do brands actually want to see?
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: And you might want it as a brand like you might not really care about like a dozen second place finishes at a bunch of 50 Ks, like you might just want to see like four DNFs and one win at like an insane race, cause that's the thing they can talk about more.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: You know Lots of swings.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so it.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a little frustrating to feel like you're not rewarded in that way, but, um, but again I understand the perspective from a brand or at least that's my speculative understanding Like I don't know for sure, of course, but yeah, it's tough.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, kieran, I remember when I was first like really getting into mountain running in Boulder and I was pretty young and he must, I think, must be like a year or two younger than me, I think he probably just graduated college, um, but yeah, he was.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: He was like racing really well at the Cirque series and um, he had this, like you know, really good look.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: He had like the long, like flowing, curly hair, like he, he had it all, he had the look and everything.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: And and I think maybe he was on like some ambassadorship with with solomon at that point or something, but um, but yeah, that's it's.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: He's another great example of someone who it seems like had done all the right things and then either like he had just not had that one race that someone cared about, or he was just at the wrong time of year or something, and and now and then, and that's the problem also if you don't have the momentum, like sponsorship begets sponsorship, and so if you don't have the momentum going for you, it's really tough to like start again from zero.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Um, when you feel like you're just kind of like rocking up to a race in a black t-shirt or whatever and just doing your own thing, it's kind of hard to catch people's attention.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, even if you're winning.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: They're kind of just like I mean, yeah, yeah, even if you're winning.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: I think, like david sinclair is like a perfect example of someone who's like you know how long was he unsponsored and how how many insane performances did he have before then?
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: So it's and it's his story more of a branding one or like a social media frequency one.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: But there, that's just.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: The point I'm getting at is that there's all these factors that could be at play it's so much.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: Not athletes.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: I mean david sinclair, just like you, like world class, like world beater, you know, and it's like he's another one that you know out of the blue this year, I guess time with craft, but like it took a long time, dude, like you're saying like it took, I mean he was like left solomon like years ago and just kind of never signed with anybody and just kind of did his own thing, which is weird.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, yeah, which, yeah, I mean to that too.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: I think from an athlete perspective it is at least I like really respect the people who are like I don't have this like big team, I'm still going to like show up and like beat a bunch of people, like I'm still here to race, I'm still like an athlete.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: So like, yeah, I think I like respect the hell out of that journey, but it can be frustrating when you're the one living it.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, dude, and I think I really appreciate you being candid about it, like, I think that was the big question was just like you know you wrote.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate you being candid about it.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: I think that was the big question.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: You wrote this beautiful post and I think, like I said, it resonated with a lot of people.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: I think it's a story.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Your story is one that needs to be told and heard.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: Dude, I don't want to just say consistency, but you've had so many top finishes On the sub-Ultra scene you're a Hall of Famer at this point, dude.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not joking, I don't know about that You're probably pretty close.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you like, look at your body of work easily.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: You know when you're comparing dudes.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Like I said, consistency means everything, so it's interesting.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this, not to pivot too hard, but like what kind of shoes are you rocking?
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Like what are you running these days?
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: that was kind of the unfortunate piece to kind of getting into that like momentum analogy, which was kind of just like I was with speedland, which was a shoe that like I really wanted to love, but it just didn't work with my tendon and I kind of stuck with that for a little too long and maybe some other factors were at play but it just like really aggravated it.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: So I'm like very particular about footwear now.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: I think like, and I've tried, I think it's yeah, kind of funny.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: Also like living in Telluride, we don't.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: We have like one like mountain shop that has like some lost bow stuff, but you're not like going into SFRC or something like that and like trying out all the cool new stuff.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: So I'll just do these like humongous orders on running warehouse and just like try out a bunch of shoes and then like send them all back.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: Um, but honestly, for the last couple years, for me nothing is still topping the like adidas speed ultra, which again like at a certain point, like I know Brian Whitfield, I've seen an Instagram post from him where he like or let's drop a post to like blur out his shoes for no, no free or cross out the Nike sign you are you know what Like?
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: should I even be pumping up the Adidas on this podcast without getting any kickback?
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: But now that shoe is is phenomenal and it's very.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: It is a very specific type of shoe and I think it fits the type of running that I like to do.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: It's got like a humongous rocker in it.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have a plate, so that is again like not really beating up your tendon.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: That much um stability wise it worked for moderate heel to toe offset stability is decent.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: I mean I think, yeah, there's more stable shoes out there.
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: I'm like a really aggressive forefoot striker also, so there, I mean you can run in any like flat shoe and it's probably more stable.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: But the I mean I think like I hadn't run in a ton of road super shoes before, I had run in those and I've run in some sense and I still think I would I would potentially choose that shoe for a road marathon over some of the road super shoes on the market.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Like I just think it is that good.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: I've never tried it on.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of friends that wear them, but that's interesting.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: It good, interesting.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: I've never tried it on.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of friends that wear them, but that's interesting, it's.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's like probably one of the most unique shoes to try on, because the rocker is so aggressive, wow.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: But like, yeah, it's.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: It's not comfortable, like walk around in the parking lot the first time you put it on, but when you like start running and again like if you have a very certain type of um stride, yep, some people are gonna like it and some people are really not gonna like it do you run like like?
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: what did you wear when you like ran broken arrow?
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Last year?
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: Did you run in agravix as well?
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: I probably did interesting wow either either that or those speeds, but I'd probably the agravix.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting okay, I gotta one thing.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Going back to sponsorship, I forgot to ask you, like I know you're, you have a relationship with, like dylan bowman has he been like a mentor for you over the years?
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: a little bit.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think I I don't know if I would say mentor so much as kind of like a friend, I suppose, like anyone can be a mentor to you in like some capacity.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: But um, no, I mean he, yeah, funny, this is actually kind of funny.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: I was on Speedland before Dylan was to be clear, but no, I mean, when he came over that really like projected that company and gave them like an insane visibility and it seems like it's been a pretty amazing partnership for both of them, both both parties.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: But but no, yeah, run with him today.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: He comes out like we ran with him at hard rock last year, every now and then I, yeah, I don't know if it's like a mental relationship, but I appreciate that he is like open to run with me, uh, every now and then, or reply to a dumb text or something like that.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: Um, he's recently been like a little more vocal about, like, um, mindfulness and mental health and coming at it from an angle that I have sort of also like approached it, and so we've had some conversations about that.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: But, um, but yeah, I think he's just like a phenomenal personality for the sport, and not just personality, but he's like putting the work to grow the sport, um.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I respect the hell out of him, let.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: But he's like putting the work to grow the sport, so yeah.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: I respect the hell out of him.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the mental health piece of it.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: This is something I've actually been trying to approach lately and I think a lot about is the mindfulness like, especially in our type of sport, like there's only one winner, obviously there's three people on a podium.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: It's very hard to do very well, right?
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: So you put in a ton of work, a shit ton of work, and you hope that you're going to shine on race day, right, and make it happen.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: When it comes to the mental health perspective, like, how do you deal with that?
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: Like how do you kind of center yourself and not think about the result and rather just like go and show up and do your thing on race day?
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I would have said this had you not preface the tennis piece, but I think like having that little background of like like tennis matches are like as much a mental battle as a physical one, and so that is like a piece of it where you kind of like tennis more so, like you're directly against one other person every single match and so it's like win or lose every time there.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: So I think like I have that is sort of my like background.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: Then comes like collegiate or high school, like one year of high school and then four years of collegiate running, where you're running for time and positions and that's really like you can be.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: I mean you can win a track race and be upset with your time still in college.
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean, but but that's like so that's like another level of kind of a like a negative for running, and then so when I moved to trails, it's like a totally different thing and I think this is what draws a lot of people to trail and why we're seeing like a lot of interest and participation in the sport is like while it is competition, it's as much about like finishing or like conquering the race as it is about like where you finished.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: And so for me, I wouldn't say like the pressure is off, but the pressure is also like less than it has been at these other points of my life.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: And I've also like I'm looking at it through a different lens with, like if you I don't know how much you scrolled back I I've at the at the beginning of last year, I kind of started making more of these posters about like gratitude for going to these races.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Because I did, I wasn't expecting to be able to do that kind of anymore, or certainly in this capacity, and so I'm obviously I'm like definitely looking through like a very grateful lens into how I'm racing now and and I think that is helping performance also.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: But but yeah, I think trail, I think trail has the opportunity, versus like some other endurance sports, to for for people to like be a little more satisfied in the result, no matter where they finish.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: So I don't know if that's kind of what you were looking for, for.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: That's that's how.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: That's how I view trail running, trail, mountain running right now Um, whether or not that's everyone's experience, I don't know, but I think it has that opportunity to do that.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: So when you're standing on a start line, like next to Eli Hemming, david Roche and Johnny little Lima, right, like do you get nervous to race these people?
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: Or like are you just like no, like I'm gonna make this happen, like how does it?
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: How do you feel on race morning?
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: or on the start line.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: I mean it depends on the time of year with that race, especially coming out of winter I think I kind of got to this earlier is like I haven't really seen any of these people in like a really long time.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: Like there's no like training camp and telluride in the middle of winter.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: And I'm certainly not leaving telluride, even though I want to, like a lot of people, see each other all the time in Boulder or whatever.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: But for me it's like kind of an exciting time to like see your friends again and kind of see how.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: Because that's the thing too, when you come out of telluride, even in the summer, you're not really sure how fit you are compared to people who have been training lower, because all of your workouts are like really nothing looks good in telluride.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: You're not running any fast times like, you're not running any fast gap times or anything like that.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: So for me it's usually excitement, especially for those first couple of races of the season.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Um, in the past I would definitely probably like get a little more nervous, um for a race that maybe I thought mattered um a lot.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: But there there's also times like at Kodiak you mentioned.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: I kind of I think I'd done enough racing.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: That was like one of my last races of that season and I knew the shape I was in and that race was like just kind of like I know the shape I'm in and if nothing goes wrong I should be able to win this.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: So it depends on the time of year whether or not I have like confidence, excitement to see friends big all to the pressure was also like really off for me At least.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: I felt because of having that sickness where it was kind of like if I run well here, that's amazing.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: If I don't run that well, it was expected of.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Like if I run well here, that's amazing.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: If I don't run that well, it was expected so.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: So that one was like a lot more fun for me how do you, how do you view competition?
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: are you a competitive person?
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: I?
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: I think, yes, but I'm also like a pragmatist.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: I I understand, like what my strengths and weaknesses are too, and so, like there are certain races where certain races like suit me and others don't, and I might be more competitive at the ones that do.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: Or there's like parts of the course that are like I am like more competitive on, but, um, I don't know, I've I've heard like some some of these, not necessarily on your podcast, but just like an athlete interview style.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: I think some people are like a lot more competitive than I am, or I think I'm more competitive with myself than I am with like another person, but some people are like really out for like that personal competition and that's not really like my style.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: So much Gotcha, gotcha.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: No, I think it's a healthy place to be in.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Like I've met, I've talked to some psychos, some people on another level.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: It's like damn.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: I thought your brains wired a little different.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: It's like wow.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know if running is the sport you should be in.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: It might be, should be something else.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 2025, and you've got Broken Arrow on deck.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: I know you're signed up for the VK or the Ascent, I should say, and the 46K.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: Are you planning on starting at both of those?
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: Obviously, intentions and goals change.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: Obviously, both of those are selection races for Worlds.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: Is Worlds possible?
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: Is that a goal?
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: I should say.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: I think it's a stretch goal.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: But I'm not expecting to make that team at all.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: I think like if I have the best day of my life, and then you know what is it going to be, 60% of the field like somehow doesn't have the best day of their life or has a worse than average day.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: That's kind of the only way I'm like making that team.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: But um, no, I think it'll just be exciting to kind of I've actually never raced the 46k at Broken Arrow, only the 23k, um, a number of years ago, and so I'm just kind of excited to do that course.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: I I'm like excited for that course.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: I think it can, could suit me, especially if the snow melts deceleratingating quickly this year, and then I just I do love racing VKs a lot, so I don't know, I think I'm just excited for both distances and the competition should be really deep in both, both events.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: So it'll be exciting yeah, it's gonna be bananas.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: Do you and this is a personal question, I can cut this out if not, if, if broken arrow doesn't go the way you want it to go, because I know there's applications as well Do you think you might apply Because I think you got a good shot, dude, on some of the vertical stuff?
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, I hadn't considered submitting an application for either distance.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: Actually, it just seems more likely that it would be like if Cam or Eli didn't make it it, they would get chosen on application anyway, or yeah, and I don't really see a world where neither of them make one of those distances and then.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: So, yeah I, I suppose I should just submit an application, just to like check my you know basis, but but no all right, think about it, you never know.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: I don't dude.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: I don't think eli's been very vocal about wanting to go.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he's, like really stated that goal or said anything about it.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: Like, I think is he just more focused on cccc is the goal this year, which means interesting that kind of takes him off the board.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: So I don't know.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: I think there's opportunities there that people might not yeah and people have different yeah, different things, but I don't know.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: Worlds only comes once every two years.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: Ccc is going to keep being there, so it's true.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: What else, uh, besides broken arrow?
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: Um, like what was it?
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: There's like a.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: There's a tahoe race, like a leadville tahoe or like leadville based tahoe race.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Is that?
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: yeah, um.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: So yeah, l Lindsay and I, like I said, we kind of spent a lot of time here and I've biked a lot of that course, um, just on mountain bike and gravel bike, and I know I would probably like something like that.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: So I did sign up for it and, yeah, it does have that Leadville qualifier with it.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: So that's something I'm interested about.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that that Tahoe race, yeah, so yeah, it does have.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: It does have a Leadville component.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: Um, and after last year's kind of like second second chance in the sports, um, I like floated this to a couple of people, so it's, it might, it's, I think, think fine now, but I'm interested in running leadville, yeah, and so that would be like a huge step out into the unknown, but it would be.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: That's kind of my, my like a goal.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: When I like started setting out, I was like okay, or I guess not a goal, but like way stretch goals, like you somehow make the world's team, then you should focus on that.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: But then I was like I guess my b goal is like run Leadville 100 and so that.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: So it'd be, yeah, pretty crazy.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: But I think, like again, going back to like the ASUs and the type of running I like to do and the fact I live at 9,000 feet is like that's Leadville, and so I think that course could like suit me really well.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: Um, I'm definitely interested in it.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: It's something that you know.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: It's got a ton of lore.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: I knew about it in college before I knew trail running is a thing you still know about Leadville.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: Um, and even back then it piqued my curiosity.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I'm, I'm interested in it could be it could be a crazy summer if I, if I do that.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I'm like I'm definitely nervous about that.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: I just did McDowell 50.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: That's the longest race I've done.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: I did that last year and it was not without problems.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: So I have like a lot to figure out, slash, figure out during the race if I did it.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: But I don't know, it would be crazy and I kind of feel like like I was saying earlier, like I have had this sort of like second chance at this sport and again, like I spent a lot of time in when I was 29, just like doing a ton of reflecting and it is kind of like, what else do you want to do Like you're not going to have every opportunity unless you like, start taking them.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, I do want to run this race, so no time like the present and not getting any younger, etc.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: Let's do it, dude, I love to hear it.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: Man, I speak that one to existence.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: I can't wait.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: I hope you well.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: Obviously you'll probably get in, but like I can't wait to see that happen, bro, like that's gonna be, that's pretty sick yeah, it'd be crazy, we crazy.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: We'll see, we'll see.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: I recently just got this like new job and I think I'm going to have like my hours working like skyrocket.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: So I'm a little nervous about that.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: Um, but again, I think if you just care, care about something enough, like I'll, I'll find the time to train and do it.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: If you want bad enough, you'll, you'll get it.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what, uh, dude, what's nutrition figuring out for you?
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: Like, are you, are you big into like solving that puzzle, or is that kind of?
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: I have.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: I have recently been like really interested in it.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: Last year I like got nauseous at like a ton of races and couldn't, like didn't really figure it out, was thinking it was all these other factors.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: Um, and I have been with knAC since this is, I must be like two years and a little bit at this point, um, and and I will use their products like all the time in training, but sometimes not always in racing.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: Um, it wasn't until the release of this like boost line that they had like a pure carb option.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: Anyway, there's often like protein and fat in their stuff which didn't really work with me, um, especially during like a high intensity effort.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, recently again not sponsored, but Lindsay, my partner, has been working with um Vic, the nutritionist that like is very famous, getting more and more famous, and he was like, oh, you like need a better sweat test.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: Like you should check out this h drop thing, which I don't know if you've heard about that yeah.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of just like a monitor you can wear, um, yeah, and so we've kind of been sharing that.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: And the first couple of sessions I realized that my sweat rate was like incredibly.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: I mean people have higher sweat rates, like I know Patty O'Leary has like an insane sweat rate, but my sodium is really really high, and so I've been, yeah, experimenting with getting like a little more sodium while I'm racing or just training as well, and so far that seems to be helping a lot.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, I'm also sort of like I pushing the upper limit of what I thought I could take carb wise.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: I just saw that um, which for me is like like McDowell, for example, and I think like the first couple hours of big Alta I was like around 140 grams per hour, maybe a little higher Um, but I just saw that Cam Werf, during his like Ironman split, did like over 200 an hour.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: So I mean like it's like yeah, it's it's possible to do like a high carb something, and that's not to say that is like I know carb stuff changes with like body size, body composition, so it's not like every single person listening to this podcast should be like I'm gonna try to like get as many carbs and I possibly can like you should still do the testing.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's been kind of interesting to see that you can, at least that I can take more than I I thought I could, and even as recently as a year ago I was not taking anything near this amount of sodium or carbs interesting.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy like the progression that we're seeing in our sport now, people actually starting to figure out like what yeah, it's like meteoric, honestly, yeah, yeah, and even I should credit johnny, because I remember I was having like a gel before the rut and he was like you know, that has no sodium in it, right, and I didn't have any idea that it did.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: It didn't have any sodium.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: So he kind of like started kicking off me like thinking more about this and then, yeah, it was really like Lindsay and Vic that were she's been like doing a ton of work behind the scenes and yeah, I was kind of like a man.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: I should probably try to figure this out a little bit dude.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: Johnny is one of the most like technical and like savvy and like dialed humans I've ever met my entire life yeah, he's definitely yeah, for sure yeah, like a very.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: I was very interested to talk to him.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: Like he's got like a.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: Did he like post like I don't know?
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: He put up something like a couple months ago about like some sleep thing he uses like some sleep mask.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: That like he's just a very dialed human.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: It's interesting.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: Even when we were living.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: So Johnny also lived in that house with Andy during our overlap with Lindsay and I.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: But yeah, even back then I know he was like experimenting with some like recovery stuff and like red light therapies and things like that.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I think he's dialed, but he's also like curious.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: You know he's curious to try new stuff.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: I'm less so on like that sort of thing, but I'm like I will try out any supplement that is safe for it.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious about like let's hear that.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: What are you?
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: taking what's on the stack.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: Nothing crazy right now, but yeah, I'm on kind of just like um like a sleep stack and char cherry pills right now.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: I also a big unlock, maybe unlock, maybe just pure placebo.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: Um, is that swiss rx has like a tendon pack?
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: I have been like using that for the last couple years, um sort of on and off, but yeah, big on creatine, iron for sure you take creatine, do you really does that?
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: this doesn't like bother your muscles at all, like with holding water or not holding water no, I mean that's yeah.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: I'm still amazed there's been so many studies on creatine and there's still, in endurance sports, this like huge stigma against taking creatine, because they're like, oh, you'll just gain so much weight, like on a five gram dose you're not going to gain any weight you might.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: You might gain one pound, but it's nothing, yeah, but more importantly, I mean back to like creatine is also like really good for mental health because it's it supports your brain too.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: So or for like depression.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: So even it's just like a good supplement to like add to your, to your daily stack anyway.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: But, um, no, I mean it's the longest studied supplement in in modern history.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: There's like basically no side effects at the doses that are being recommended.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: So I I can't recommend it enough, not to not because it has like such insane benefits, but just because it is so safe, it's like it would be, and it's so cheap compared to like a lot of other things like people should just try it.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, dude, it's like it would be and it's so cheap compared to like a lot of other things.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: Like people should just try it yeah, no, dude, it's interesting.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, from what I've read on it, like it's supposed to, if you get like a terrible night's sleep, it's supposed to like completely like wipe that away and like some like it's, the neurocognitive benefits are supposed to be insane on it I I haven't heard too much about creatine for sleep, but um, but I won't.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: I won't uh, argue against anything until I've read a paper that says otherwise it's, it's, it's supposed to be.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: Like dude, you know I've been.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: I take um, oh man, I do.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: You know, just like the little things, like I just started taking more vitamin d and zinc, and just like what it does to your immune system, like yeah it's like so zinc, though you do have to be a little careful, because if you're trying to use it to get over a sickness, if you've already been loading with zinc, then your body will respond to it like much, much more slowly really.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: So, but I mean for daily health, like it's fine.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: But like if you're like, oh, I like just got a colder, I feel like I have a cold coming on time, like slam a bunch of zinc, but you're already taking zinc in a multi, in like a medium to high dose, like it's gonna have like a tiny effect so that's kind of just like a, but it's not to say don't take zinc as a multi.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: That's just like a cautionary zinc thing do you know the brand first endurance, yeah, I take.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: The optimum hp?
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: It's like a vo2 booster with like yeah, I, I uh at one.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: at one time I was stacking um um optogen, hp, um Swiss RX, nitric oxide and uh alt red beat pills and that was like too much, but and I would only do that kind of like around race times, but that is kind of like a let's like leave no stone unturned type of thing.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: But again like a performance benefit from it.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: Like I, it's hard for me to tell what's just the optimum HP.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's so much beta alanine in that Like you can feel your skin tingling, but like, is that going to do anything for endurance sports?
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: I don't, I don't really know.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: And that that again is like I kind of like try to live my life through the pro con list which we've like talked about already.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: But yeah, if you like start putting the cost of like all this into a spreadsheet and you're kind of like well, what benefit am I getting?
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: And did I really just spend $500 last month on supplements?
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: Like what am I doing?
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: It's so true.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: It's so expensive, like dude that optimates P alone's like 80 bucks above.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: Like it's then the multivitamins in the same yeah, yeah, or it's the same thing like with athletic greens, like you ever try athletic greens I take it all the time.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: Well, it's the same yeah, I took it.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I noticed a difference, but did I notice a hundred dollars a month worth of difference?
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: probably not no, no, if they get you on the shipping man, if they just charged me 70, I think I'd be happier with that.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotta hit up hayden hawks.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: Gotta have him send us some some.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: I think he's like the only athlete now on the trail scene like actually sponsored by them.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy um, oh yeah, that's another.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: That's another space I could talk a lot about for a long time.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude I I'm gonna have to like send you some dms, like pick your brain on this, like I am performance enhancement, like any way you can from, like the natural stuff like I'm always interested in, because well and it's.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: it's funny too to like talk about like performance enhancement in terms of like percentages or things like that, because then you like I mean during the like initial super street era, it was like you're gonna get like four percent running economy benefit and then like how much can you get from supplements?
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: Or how much can you get from like strength training, or like how much can you get from just like an extra five hours of aerobic work?
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: It is kind of fun to like yeah, do that little Tetris game and see what works for you Maximize your yeah, no, it's interesting.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: All right, dude, I got to get into.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: Let's get into some ending questions.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: I'm very curious who inspires you?
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was prepared for this one.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: This is one of the things I prepared for because I listened, like I said, I kind of like listened to a ton of your podcasts over the last two days just getting ready, and then I started like going through who actually inspires me.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: It's different people for different things but then it just got so out of hand.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I should just like run through this I have like literally 30 people here or if I should just like pick a couple top ones.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: But I invited first I I put competitors and I think my my like three right now are just like Eli, cam and Seth are kind of like as a, they're like my inspirational competitors, I think.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: And yeah, eli, I think because he just is so kind and down to earth and then is still and is so good Like it's almost like it's it's crazy.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think he's like a really amazing human and obviously what he's doing in the sport is like so fantastic.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: So I, yeah it.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: He like pushes me to be better.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: You know like I want to show up better on race day because I'm going to be if I'm going to be racing Eli type of thing.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: So he's definitely Cam.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: I think Cam is always just kind of like my VK competitor and I'm just always like I want to race him more in VKs.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: I want to be better than him on VKs, but I also want him to be better than me so we can like pull me to faster time.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: So and then I think, yeah, this whole like schemo federation thing it's been like really fun.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: Watching his like journey from social media and seeing him do all these races and kind of trying to make a name for himself and for the United States, um like over with the big boys in Europe has been pretty, pretty cool to watch.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: It's kind of crazy.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: I think he'll probably be an Olympian, like more than likely.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, we'll see.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: I think it comes down to like North America only gets a couple spots, and so whether or not Canada sends more people or something, that I'm obviously don't follow the sport close enough to know exactly how it's shaking out right now, but yeah, it is.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: It is to know exactly how it's shaking out right now, but yeah, it is, it is great.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, um.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: And then, yeah, I think like recently Seth has been like absolutely crushing it and I I hate to say that it's surprised me because I think like his like closer friends would be like well, it didn't surprise me, like I knew how much how good a shape he was in, but it has surprised me how well he's been running and why I'm like inspired by it is because I think his approach has been like don't do like humongous sexy workouts, like just put in the work and like keep your head down a little bit.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: And it is tempting like we were saying at the beginning of this conversation on like Strava, fkt stuff, like it's tempting to upload that like crazy last rep or yeah, whatever.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: You know where you're like really doing too much in a workout.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: And it seems to me like he has not been doing that and the results have really come and so, yeah, that's been cool to see.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: I even I did a little track workout last night, um, with a group here in in San Francisco and I was kind of thinking about him during that workout.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: I was kind of like, well, I could like blast a 400 right now, or I could just like run the speed that I'm actually supposed to be like in control and running for.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, those are kind of the, those are kind of the three right now that I'm that I'm thinking about in the competitor side of things.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know if you want to spend time.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: If you want to spend time, if you want me to blast this list, go for it, yeah well I think lindsey and I were kind of talking about this at the end of her call is I have never not that I know this person personally um, just from like podcasts and social media and and other news reports but I have never like experienced a more true profession professional athlete than Kate Courtney and I think she is just like such a phenomenal human and, yeah, I think like working professional in the sport.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: Like she defines like professional athlete.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: For me it's not just someone who's like doing a bunch of reps, like showing up on race day, like.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: She is really like created this like insane brand and is now has this like foundation and she's really like done more than I think has been like asked of an athlete and is like still seeing the dividends from it.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: So I think when you're talking about like, yeah, especially like American athletes, kate Gordon cannot be cannot be overstated.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: I got to agree with that for sure.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: That's a good one.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: That's a good one.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had a.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: It was going to take too long, so I had a couple of cyclists on here.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: Like I said, I'm like a big, big cyclist.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: So, inspired by, like definitely, the unbound scene right now Both, both as it is now, and kind of like what also the roots of of the lifetime grand prix started out, as kind of some of those athletes, I think, um, like your audience is going to be like a little more familiar.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: Like I think you always got to call out heather jackson, yeah yeah just that is that?
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: that's kind of like my dream.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: You know trajectory or like it'll probably not trajectory at this point, but gravel racing like mixing up at the front of like long hundreds, 50ks.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: Also had this like insane iron man career like yeah, she is truly inspirational to me as well.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of like my cyclist of the list.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: I did put like the williams brothers on here too.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: I think they're they've like pushed that should be inspirational to like.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: What trail running is right now is like they've really taken the media side of cycling and like they've made crit racing like interesting again, whether or not they're like still at the forefront of doing that it.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: You can't like talk about road racing in america right now without them like being on the bubble somehow, I think.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of two of them.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: Ton of runners on here.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: Noah drotty like I already mentioned as a college student, like reading his workouts and feeling that connection because I was like reading his journal basically was like I yeah I can't really state enough how like impactful that was to to my development.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: Um, andy wacker we've already talked a little bit about now with the trail team especially, but I mean not only that.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: He's still having like one of the most amazing road seasons I've seen.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: So like, yeah, he, he definitely has like the fountain of youth and and maybe it's a trail team, maybe it's something about this college kids he's keeping him.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: How old is he's what?
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: 36 now, 37, something like that.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: He must be, yeah I remember when we first moved in with him I I was like at his it was at the house but um celebrated his 30th birthday and I was kind of like, wow, 30, that's like kind of old and and now I mean that's always how it goes right, like and then you're, five years later you're 30.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: Paddy O'Leary here in SF, I think is like has become more of a more for this community than for himself.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: Just like the projects he's put on and like what he does and is interested in the community.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: He always like makes me want to be a better community member, both in like my running community and in just like Telluride community more generally.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, he is, he is a great person.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you got him on the podcast.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: I was just literally I was spaced out for a second thinking about I'm going to send himm after this yeah, I mean because I think you could spend two hours talking about anything but his running and he and he would be engaging.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah so good.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: Um, francesco, I've always been a friend for a fan of francesco, but god, these last like two years of him just coming over and just like tearing it up on american soil, let alone what he's doing in europe, is so insane.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: But also just with like the crow trail runner association and stuff like that, like he's.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: He's another like professional athlete like.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: He has made it a profession, not just like an athlete first.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: So that's good.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: I had some race directors on here brend Madigan, mike Foote, forrest Bogner like really, like it's been pretty crazy to watch the sport grow while you're in it.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: Like my first, yeah, I got second or third at either the rudder broken arrow like four years ago when the sport wasn't big, and both of those events have gotten so insane now that like the talent does come there and like people are coming from the they're foregoing like a road career, they're foregoing a track career to come race the trails.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I think it's those two events especially have like really made, at least in my career, like mountain running very cool and desirable, and not just for the athletes but like sponsor money too, and that's how the sport grows in general.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: So sure, yeah, a couple race director calls out let's see if there's any last ones here.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, there's a lot, we want to hit a third, but I think that's pretty good for for where we are.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: I did call out like classics, yeah, jim courtney, katie, just like.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: Having americans just like crush it in europe, I think is like keeps the fire alive here in america, like, and it also like reverses, you know, when they come back here and like do really well at western, then it makes like european athletes more interested.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: Like look at west, what western is going to be this year?
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: And I don't think you can say that it's because like western is like an awesome race by itself, but like what americans have done in europe and also here and people are now like a little more curious about the american racing scene.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, have you got a chance to meet jim?
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: Or like, chop it up with him at all?
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: I, I have, yeah, we've, we've gone on a couple runs together and I've like bumped in him in in different ways but yeah, he's, he's.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: He is inspirational on his own right as a runner out outside of that, but yeah, I think he's pretty funny.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: I had a couple people on here who like inspire me as as like such a good athlete that they like transcend the like media requirement to be an athlete.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: You know and eat one of them and keegan swenson was my other one on there, but yeah, both of them are just like so good that it's, it's almost like is that what you took away from him, kind of is that what you took away from him?
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: because I mean, you got to race him now like at broken arrow, vk, like what.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: What did you take away from?
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: just like him in general, I'm just very curious no, I, it's interesting and that's kind of the interesting piece too, like, as athletes do have more media requirements, then you see this other side of them, both like in your interaction.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: Like a couple of days ago we were sitting down with Lindsey's family after dinner and we watched, like part of the Walmsley Jim is.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously he's more than an athlete, but he's just like such a good athlete that he's still kind of like that he still has like halo status that even though he is like easy to talk to and you might like have similarities, that he likes gravel biking every now and then you like gravel biking every now and then he's still like Jim Walmsley.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: And so you know or like, yeah, I mean just some of the stuff he's done.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: It is so like yeah, it's weird to be like talking with someone who is like down to earth or you know, you realize that like the people have done the most amazing things.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: They're not thinking about those things anymore.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: They're always thinking about the next thing.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean that the times they ran and like the stuff they've done still hasn't happened, you know.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: So they do like, whether they know it or not, they still like carry the weight of what they've done, and so even for me, like powerful feeling, like I'm kind of like chilling out a little bit, I still will get like, yeah, starstruck by jim walsey, for sure.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: I mean it's crazy dude.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: I mean I've walked down, I mean I have met Courtney.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: I've walked past her and I'm like damn, that's Courtney to Walter.
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: That's kind of crazy.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: Like when you talk to these people or meet them.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: It is kind of weird when you see them in real life.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: I Well Joe Gray, but like he's a friend, so it's a little bit different and like I don't know I'm trying to think of like the most famous people I've ever.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: Well, and when you live in the same town, probably that all kind of like makes it seem like he's like just that's just great.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: But I don't have that.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: It like I'm still like God.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's really like a 40 time US champ or whatever it is.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: You know it's the goat man.
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: It's crazy.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah um no, it's so interesting I I mean, I could ask, I'm just so curious out of this, like out of every runner you've ever met, like who's your favorite runner's favorite runner?
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: Like who would you say, like mine is cam.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: I just like, really like, really love cam.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: Like he's just such an interesting character to me my favorite runner's favorite runner yeah like who's my?
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: Who is your favorite runner?
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: you could say that oh okay, I don't know.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: I mean I think it does.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: It changes on this season.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, I don't know.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: Cam is tough because I feel like I'm like you're like friends with someone.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: I feel like for me, like a favorite runner has to be like, unless you just mean like personality wise, like who could you, who could you like?
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like a guy like Cam or someone like that who's like yeah, even like I have.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: I have a couple of good cam stories.
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: One of them I thought was hilarious.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: It was like day before he won, like one of the rut events.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: He was like he was literally just sleeping in the woods on the course, like he didn't have a hotel or anything like that.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I mean cam is like, but but that feels like someone you're friends with.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: I think there's still like like some of these, like killian stories or the anton, like early years, like some of that stuff is so impactful, as like as a college student or something like a college runner or just someone who's new to the sport, that you have these like insane performances or just like they just feel out of reach and so something like that you're, I feel like you'll always be pulled to, but that's not to say that you're going to like, even like with Anton or Killian, like you're not going to want to like necessarily grab a beer with them, but you would like.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: Want to hang out with cam, but you would like want to hang out with cam.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: That's very true.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know about it.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: I haven't crossed paths with anton yet.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: He's somebody I'd like to have on kelly and just feels out of reach just because he lives on another side of the world.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: But yeah, everyone.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: I think everyone inspires you in a different way.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: I actually I've done like a.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: I did a photo shoot with anton a couple years ago, um, and he is like it's tough too, because anton like what, what comes with like anton's not baggage, but with his status, I think it's his writing and his thoughtfulness and that does come out also.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: So it's almost like with anton you're less like, you're less interested in like asking him about like how his fastest green time was, and more like or or longs time, and more like what is the body of like doing longs over, like 15 years, like mean to you?
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: yeah you know, I mean like he has a different weight it's weird with him too.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: Dude, it's funny.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: I have a friend I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say it out, but like I have a friend that's projecting possibly going for the Chicago basin FKT this summer.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: And we like like dissected everything from his like FKT, no one's even fucking close Like within, like it's like bananas, how fast he's run there.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: So Anton's done some mythical shit, but like, yeah, it's interesting.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: Which I mean, yeah, and that's.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: That's an interesting piece of like the athlete versus the performance athlete versus the project athlete.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: I think there's a space for both of those.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean it's like if you're like interested in mountain stuff and like I don't know how long he's lived in Boulder, but how many times has he like scoped all that stuff, like it's crazy to have a route that that that is that long, like who else could know that route better?
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah like it is crazy.
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's putting he's putting a lifetime of work to like run some of those times it's crazy.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: It's crazy.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: So lindsey said you're the music guy.
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: What's what's the walkout song, man?
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: like, what's your, what's your favorite song before a race, or yeah, lindsey has like five songs that just play on repeat like all the time, including her race playlist, um, but I don't know, I my music tastes do change a lot.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: They change on the season a lot, but right now, because it's like springtime, like definitely into like a little more hype up stuff.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: I've been listening to like a lot of um, like a little more psych rock, punk rock, um, I would say, do you know the band that chats?
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: No no, they're, they're like an Australian band.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: Um you may, they're.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: They're kind of had one popular song going around called smoko on Instagram, but anyway, six liter GTR is is definitely my walkout song right now.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: I've listened to that on repeat for a long time.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: Six liter GTR.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to plug that in after this and give it a listen.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, all right, dude.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: Last question it's usually I ask people either about Bigfoot, aliens, ai, all kinds of crazy shit.
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: It's usually the wonky question.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: But you want me to go with the aliens dude?
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: Do you believe you believe in aliens?
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: I think, um, it seems improbable that there would not be other life what I, I, but it also seems improbable that it would be a type of life that's like how we've seen in science fiction.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably something that we can't communicate with or might not even recognize.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: That's what I think.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: That's fair.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: That's fair.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: Or it's also so far away that, like, the human race will be extinct by the time that something is near enough to communicate with another type of life.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: So what do you think or recognize it?
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: What do you think people see then?
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: Is it like interdimensional shit?
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: Or you think it's just like phenomenons in the sky, Like I mean denominations in the sky, like I mean, what do you mean?
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: like in the 60s, like ufo?
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: everybody's talking about ufos now.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like I see it all over social media, like people are, like in government I think people just don't know what a starlink satellite chain looks like that's true.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: It's true, like people are freaking out like in la, when that went by, yeah, and then it's just clickbait and that's what happens, yeah dude.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: My mom sent me a photo of one.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: They live in south florida and like obviously in florida.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: Like the, it's flat so the sky's pretty illuminated at night yeah, my mom's like oh my god, we saw you if I'm like, not starlake satellite like yeah well, ryan dude, it was such a great conversation, man.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on the podcast yeah, thanks for having me.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, fun chatting, yeah, yeah, I hope this is the first of many dude microphones always yours.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: Would hope to have you back on at some point and wish you the best of luck in your season, man thanks very much.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'll see you at one of these upcoming races.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, be great to me in person.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah no for sure, I'll probably be at all the cirque series this year.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: I might be at the rut.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: Are you gonna?
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: You're not, probably.
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: You're probably not going to the route this year I probably.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know if we, lindsey and I, both have such a special connection to the rut that we may go even if we don't race okay.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be over there.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: We'll be in touch all right, all right, have a great rest of your day what'd you guys think?
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: oh man, what a fun episode.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: I want to thank ryan so much for coming on the podcast was great to have a conversation and I'm actually really excited for round two.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: Um, he and I probably could have chatted for at least two and a half hours and uh, yeah, I can't wait to do a part two to this one.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: So really thank you to Ryan and excited for where his 2025 is going to take him.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: I'm glad he kind of stated some of his goals on the podcast.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: We'll see if we'll see if he goes to Leadville and does the damn thing.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: So excited for Ryan.
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: It's going to be fun to follow along.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: Guys, before you get going, do me a favor, hop on Instagram.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: The best way you can support Ryan is to give him a follow on Instagram.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: You could find him in R underscore Beck Beck.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of funny, not Beck.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, you can find them like.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: Just type in R underscore B E, c K Z Again, that's R, underscore B E, c K Z.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: Or type in Ryan Becker on Instagram and he's the first one that comes up.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: So give him, give him a follow and, yeah, let him know what you guys thought about the podcast and the episode and send him some words of encouragement as he takes on some big goals for this year.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: Guys, before we get going, if you happen to enjoy this episode and you want to support us, give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, spotify or YouTube, wherever you guys get your podcasts.
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: Last but not least, this episode was brought to you by Ultimate Direction, usa.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: Use code SteepStuffPod for 25% off the new RaceVest 6 liter and UltraVest 12 liter just dropped.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: You guys are going to like them, so check them out and, yeah, have a great week, guys.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you.