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Episode 366: The Invisible Curriculum - Education by Example · The Growth Project

• 0:00
  if my child copied my lifestyle, my way of doing things, would I be proud or would I be concerned, you know, an open ended way of saying, you know, how would I feel?
• 0:12
  Yeah. You know, if my child copied my lifestyle, how would I feel?
• 0:19
  Welcome to the Growth Project, a podcast brought to you by inflows.
• 0:23
  Doctor Milt Lauter, doctor Drew Brannon on the on the my day. And we are really kind of continuing a lot of what we've been talking about since the first of the year and that we're building off of what I hope has been, an informative and evaluative process for people of essentially kind of like, look underneath the hood.
• 0:43
  Yeah. And in the midst of doing that, we have covered a lot of ground. We've talked about, all facets of life most recently.
• 0:52
  You want to touch on kind of reading Gabby more last week? Yeah. We just talked about how important that that, your identity, who you think you are, how much it shapes and informs your decisions, your behaviors, your actions, your values.
• 1:06
  And so as we kind of dove deep to really kind of understand, how are you setting limits on yourself, but how you think about yourself and, and really challenged people to kind of disrupt and, change the paradigm of the lens, which how they see themselves and how they see the work and how they see their life. And so that kind of build upon where we've taken about the reflection and goals and behaviors and habits and boundaries and values.
• 1:31
  And so, you know, today's episode is building upon that identity vision for your life. And it really speaks a little bit drew kind of kind of why we get in this business and amplify as we talk about helping people be better, pursue better. This is really now taking some of these factors and taking a deep dive of your parenting.
• 1:50
  What what environment are you in engineering at home? What are you creating and what are you really leaving your children that really matters? Yeah. So I, I always think it's important before you have any parenting discussion. Right. Where do you start disclaimers. I think I think that's so key because, you know, I never want to be in a position that it seems as though I think I have the corner on parenting and that I've done it all right.
• 2:17
  And that everyone should just kind of like, gather around to hear about this. Yeah. And want to be in that posture really on anything? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I laugh, you know, I teach that parenting class and I look back, I'm finally teaching it again for the first time in eight years. Because once my kids became teenagers are wrong.
• 2:35
  I really didn't know what I was talking about. And so we were coming out of that. But I think we love being a partner in the process and share ideas and that and share what we've learned and, and challenge you to think a little bit deeply around, okay, what is really important and consistent with our previous podcast.
• 2:54
  Is my life reflective of that? Yeah, right. So so we are going to talk about parenting, and I know that as far as our listening base goes, we've got folks who are absolutely parents, and you were in the thick of it and doing your thing. And then we've got folks who who are parents and may or may not become that.
• 3:13
  But I think regardless of where you are, in that mix, there are lessons to be learned in this conversation. Because really, the heart of what we're talking about is the messages that we send and, the tone we set and the things that we are kind of essentially teaching without trying to teach. Yeah. And I think if you don't, if you are not a parent, it's even in relationship with others, you know, what's it feel like to be loved by you, to be connected by you, to be led by you and to be in relationship with you?
• 3:45
  And so that's the lens is maybe you will become a parent one day, or maybe you aren't. But I think even in relationship, the premise of this is they're going to pay more attention to what you do than what you say. Yeah. So that's kind of the the main concept of the premise that we want to talk about today is, is like, what are you passing down to your kids without necessarily trying to consciously pass down to your kids?
• 4:10
  So in other words, heavy hitter top. Yeah. Hey, you know, this is not for the faint of heart.
• 4:15
  Yeah. You and I are both a little tentative step into it ourselves. This hits home. This hits home. I had a mentor. You know the language that he used with me years and years ago was, you know, on track with this on a little bit different language.
• 4:30
  And it was really the question of what are you teaching your kids without teaching? Yeah, that's what we're talking about. Yeah. So I think all of us, I would hope, are very well-intentioned and some of at least somewhat thoughtful about okay, these are the values. These are the concepts, the principles that I'm trying to impart upon my kids.
• 4:49
  And hopefully I'm talking about some of those. Yeah. Also talking about all of them. But we'd be foolish to think that that is the only way or even the primary way we are transferring information or transferring lessons. It's just not. Yeah. Again, another disclaimer. Guilt and shame are terrible motivators. And so this isn't to convict you and make you feel less than or what you should be doing.
• 5:12
  It's to really raise your awareness of the gap between kind of the parent you are and the parent you want to be, and the parent your children need you to be, and take some different action steps and think deeply and meaningfully this. You know, young parents, drew, I kind of call it survival mode. You know, you're you're you're building a family, building a life, and you're just reacting to the demands of the children, reacting to the demands of the day.
• 5:35
  You're influenced by others. And also you look up and your children are ages and without intentional thought, like it's too late. You know, I've got two children in college. You've got one. I've got one more on the way. My time with them in my house is coming to a close. Yeah. And. And it's too late, to really think about this.
• 5:59
  So let's start with the. We'll start with just kind of a concrete way to consider, and I'll say it in the sense of we'll start with like values. And you, you might have, you know, any parent out there might say okay, A, B and C, these are, these values are important to us as a family. These are words that we're going to honor in our home.
• 6:19
  And I'm expecting you to like. And so I would stop right there. I would say 95% of parents don't do that. Yeah, they I mean, I made that up on the spot, but but but most parents I know are not sitting down and thinking deeply with their partner. Yeah. And and saying, okay, what is it that we really want our children to grasp?
• 6:39
  But they may talk in big constructs. I think they they probably know in their mind. Yes. Things are yes I have they like going through the exercise. Yeah, probably. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that's a start.
• 6:50
  Did you pull that from your archives? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've been doing this research for 22 years. 95% of parents. Yeah, maybe 93.5.
• 7:01
  If you bring in the international. Yeah. No, I, like most folks, are not going to that exercise and I. But I do think they probably know big picture. I'll just make up an example like, hey, we expect you to have integrity. Yeah. And be hard working and and so like, they expect these things. Although they might not be stated.
• 7:19
  Yes. So you really end up with two groups, right. So you have those that are they have an expectation of a value. And then you have those that have like an actual stake. Yeah. Yeah.
• 7:27
  But here's where it often gets off the tracks is
• 7:30
  we say that like this and this and this are important and we expect you to do those things.
• 7:37
  But we are. Yeah. Consistency. Right. And I think part of the big challenge and tension here that parents need to grasp is kids don't have to be that old in order to realize that,
• 7:48
  oh my gosh. Yeah. There's so many lessons of, failures as a parent of do as I say, not as I do. And, and so with those values, you know, Alfred Adler used to say, when the first psychologist I studied way back when, that if you want to know what's important, someone watch their feet.
• 8:07
  I shared the other day and somebody said, watch the way they spend their money go about our success. Audit top talent. And there are huge gaps between back to our identity, who we think we are and who we actually are. Yeah. But how we like we know the research on self-awareness. We're so ignorant of our own behaviors and decisions, especially when it comes to our children.
• 8:29
  Right. So let's give let's give everybody some categories on that. While on this kind of theme of values is if on the one hand, maybe what the hope is amongst a lot of parents is that they can say, hey, we as a family are going to care about this, in this, in this, you know, what are kids really paying attention to?
• 8:47
  I think the categories that we want people to be mindful of would be things such as patterns, beliefs, priorities, what are the patterns in the sense of the routines and habits that exist in your life? What are the beliefs that emanate from the way you talk, the things you think about? And then what about priorities? Yeah. Like what is your schedule?
• 9:10
  Say really, really matters. Yeah. What is where your dollars and cents go say about what's most important to you as a person? As a as a dad, mom, a family. Like those are things are paying attention to that's what the message becomes. Yeah. And so that so as we become mindful of I mean, it's okay to ask your children as well.
• 9:31
  You should. Yeah. Over, over the time of my life, I would go to my children, say, hey, what do you think is important to me? What's something you learn from me? What could I do to be a better dad? Because I see it through a different lens. And kids do it with such an unbelievable spirit. And they have the willingness to tell the truth.
• 9:46
  Yeah. Well, and that's you know, that's one of the key questions is I have, you know, I built this kind of like an annual review thing years and years ago that I do with all my kids. And one of the key questions is, what does it seem like I love? Yeah. And you ask your kids that question once a year.
• 10:00
  I should do it more often that I guess I can bring myself to do. But you ask your kids, what does it seem like I love? You will get some really good feedback on what we're talking about right now. Yeah, yeah. Cause you hope that what their answer is, it's consistent with what you do love. But that gets back to what we know about human nature.
• 10:18
  Our lives don't always emulated. Model what we say in our minds. We consciously. Be great if they did. Yeah. And so so what I like about this exercise. It's not that it's we don't value work. You and I work really hard and it's important that hopefully our children see that and reflect that. But it's how do you find that harmony.
• 10:37
  And and what do you emphasize. Yeah. Yeah. And what do you have a size and without saying. Yes. Yeah. So there's that term I want to, you know, give credit where credit's due. So as we kind of worked and prepped for this podcast a little bit in Doctor Gabby, if you help our listeners join the doctor, Gabby's in church.
• 10:54
  Doctor G or doctor C what it would doctor C yeah,
• 10:58
  but Gabby shared with us just this concept of the invisible curriculum. Yeah. Which I had not heard about. I really hadn't thought of in those terms. Man, that's a powerful concept. And my view of that, the invisible curriculum. So? So it just build upon a little bit of what we're talking about.
• 11:16
  How am I reacting to stress? What is drew? One of the things we've been really mindful here and help our clients understand, if you aren't aware of your own reaction to stress, you can not be aware of how your stress impacts others. Yeah. And and so to that invisible curriculum is how do we react to stress. How do we react to success?
• 11:37
  How do we react to failure? How do we react to unmet expectations? How do we show up each and every day? So we value a positive attitude, but there's no energy at home. You know, and you value helping others, but you get drained by that. Or you're really stressed about money or finances or in a relationship and you're grumpy and have a low frustration tolerance.
• 12:00
  Like, to me, that's the invisible curriculum. Or here's a better one, especially in the South, you're going to wake up and go to church on Sunday morning and and feel connected to something greater than yourself. And, and you hear these wonderful words about love and peace and joy. And there's you talked about one hour a week, you know, and there's no flavor.
• 12:20
  Like, what's the flavor feel of your home? Or you lose your temper on the car, right. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Or you get impatient like me is like, I'm ready to get home. I got it. Like, why is this taken so long? And so to me, that's the invisible curriculum, right. And I think this is a there's a kind of a parallel path here relevant to this idea.
• 12:38
  This is my curriculum as well. It also shines a light on the fact. What we've talked about in many previous Growth Project episode is we can't figure that out on our own. The curriculum that you are putting into play without consciously knowing it necessarily, you will not be successful at being aware of that if you try to do it on your own, you know, not a solo job.
• 13:00
  That's one of the prime examples where we need really honest feedback from people. Yeah. About, hey, just so you know, here's what it's like when you walk in the room. Yeah, here's the impact you're having on our family, the impact you're having on the people that you're around. You got to be open to that feedback because you you won't be good at this otherwise.
• 13:19
  And so why do we think it's go back to your boundaries conversation. Why do we think boundaries are so important for your life, but also for your children? We're talking about the invisible curriculum you're just creating at home. Throw in social media. Throw in the ways of this world for an undeveloped mind who is not able to process and distinguish between maybe right from wrong, or pressures and anxiety or pornography and and what is the world communicating to your family?
• 13:47
  What is that invisible curriculum? That adds a whole lot of pressure. And so, you know, we know drew over the last ten years, even accelerated through Covid, significant rises in anxiety disorders and eating disorders and depressive disorders, and in children. And one of the reasons is parental anxiety. Parental stress, is contributing to some of those factors.
• 14:15
  So here's a question I'll put in motion this one. We're digging deep on this one, on this concept of physical curriculum for every parent to honestly kind of assess on this question,
• 14:28
  if my child copied my lifestyle, my way of doing things, would I be proud or would I be concerned, you know, an open ended way of saying, you know, how would I feel?
• 14:40
  Yeah. You know, if my child copied my lifestyle, how would I feel?
• 14:45
  We can really give some thought of that. Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, you want me to answer that? I'm like, yeah. How does that you know, that's a really healthy and yet challenging question that would be, I think, beneficial for all of us to think about.
• 15:01
  Yeah. And and I think here's a piece is your parents, we forget what it was like to be ten years old or 15 or 20 or 22 and and and, and and we sometimes don't give the grace that is necessary to others because we don't give that grace to ourself. And one of the things that I think is so important in modeling for your children is this invisible curriculum is giving yourself permission to be human.
• 15:30
  We talked about it all the time, but especially as a parent, if I can give myself permission to be human, accept my flaws, accept my failures, accept my weaknesses, not not not be satisfied with them, not be content them. But then I give my children and others permission to be human as well. And that is unconditional love. And there's great security and confidence.
• 15:49
  And then unconditional love. But back to your pattern. Is my lifestyle. Powerful question. Would I be proud there? There are moments probably in my life that yeah, I would be proud of some things if they if they modeled some of the things that I've done, if they, are able to replicate some of the, the things that we think are important, but there are other decisions and behaviors along the way that, that, that when I see them, it makes me anxious because that's me.
• 16:18
  Yeah. Oh yeah. And and that I don't I want them to be better along those lines. And here's where I think it really is going to hit home when when so many parents we talked to is like, I want my children to have a better life. They are talking about more peace, more harmony, more rest, more contentment, stronger relationships, healthier lives.
• 16:39
  They're talking about more money and opportunities. Often. True. Yep. I agree. And so I think that is one of the biggest things we reinforce that here's what success looks like. And here are the things that are going to make you happy. Yeah, yeah I mean there's too many examples unfortunately, to that point of and I want to be careful to say this, we're not trying to bring judgment, Christian, to the decisions.
• 17:02
  People are making it work. For example, we don't know your boat is we don't know your reasons. But there are those examples where maybe one of the parents is like really getting after it from the work standpoint. Yeah. And as a result of that, not around a whole lot. And, you know, there's that tug of like you can see that the thought that you're saying like, hey, like I'm doing this for you guys.
• 17:21
  Yeah. Like and on the other side, I think it's only like, I want you to be here. Yes. Like I never ask for that. Yeah, yeah. I never asked you to do that. Yeah. I'd much prefer for you to just be around. Yeah, yeah. And so I think, and when you're at home, be present. Yeah. And so the way everybody's got to check themselves are a little bit of on the one hand maybe that's the message you're communicating of like I'm doing this for you.
• 17:43
  God. Really? Are you. Yeah. Like is that what's really underneath this? And have you, have you confirmed that that's what they want. And I think it's important because it does fall into that. I've never wanted my children, to feel guilty about the work that I do and the effort that it takes. I've never like it. It's like, yes, it is provided for them, but it's not in a way that makes them feel guilty about my work.
• 18:08
  I love the work that I do, and I want them to understand, appreciate that. But also with your question, drew, that's a that's putting a pressure on your children that, that they didn't ask for. That's right. That they didn't ask for. That's you avoiding ownership of your life, your career, the decisions that you're making. And that's why it's so important.
• 18:30
  Go back to what? Like what is your vision for your life? What is it that you really want out of life? And what are you willing to give up to get it? Yeah, if I am on the the edge in the way of stress and tension and all of that, and I would say that, there because I'm just going so hard.
• 18:48
  Yes. Burdens and deadlines and, but again, well, here's why I'm doing it. That's not really fair to them. Like they that's not what they were or what they asked for. No, for. And there's just you can get into that cycle really quickly and it is hard to unwind,
• 19:06
  you know, I go back to why am I doing this.
• 19:08
  And so a few years ago, when all the children were home and I'd been on the road a good bit, we travel a good bit and everybody was just arguing on the dinner table. And it was, it was not the most pleasant meal. And I'm like, do you know why I work so hard? Y'all know why I travel so much?
• 19:25
  Because we need the money, dad. No, because you provided us. No, because of this and that. And I know those people seem to like what I have to say. Those people seem to appreciate what I have to offer. And so I just had that in my mind, as you're talking about, hey, I'm doing this for you and I'm might.
• 19:41
  No, I'm doing it to get out. Get away from you. Here's the other thing that I think we do. And I know we're kind of doing some different. We we've diverted a little bit. But back to what message are we sending? What I say we do a lot of times to our children, we minimize the stress in their life.
• 20:01
  And I've and I failed before in doing that. You know, when my children have had a bad experience and and to me, in my mind, it's not that bad. I said early on, and I hope is the worst thing that ever happens to you. You know, because what I'm really know is at my age, like, that's going to be a great life if that's.
• 20:18
  But at their life it's really important and it's really painful. And it's really hard. And so sometimes we can minimize our children's pain and others because we think we're so self-absorbed in our life. And this is really hard and it's really difficult. And so back to you being stressed and burned out if you weren't aware of it. But you think your work is so demanding that they would have no idea.
• 20:43
  We minimize their own experience. Yeah. Final, final thing I want to say about this idea of, like, this invisible curriculum, all that is, and we've talked about this in some of the work I've done with football and Georgia. Is that the whole idea of the 24 hour Netflix documentary? And if somebody made one of those about you, yeah, then you were required to sit there and watch it.
• 21:08
  How would that hit you? And like, that can be the the film don't lie. As I say in football, the film don't lie. But that could be a really powerful way for people to think about the question we're talking about right now. Like if you if you if your kids were really closely aligning to kind of how you go about your business, the other way to consider me like, wow, what if I had to watch a 24 hour documentary be.
• 21:33
  Yeah. And and my reactions be and how how would I feel and where would I feel like I was leaning and where would I feel like I was losing? And how convicted would I feel? Yeah, I, I guess the good news is, to my knowledge, that's not actually happening. No. So yes, funniest. You know, in our old practice and our old clinical practice and we were doing a lot of families and work.
• 21:50
  I always thought, you know, you couldn't get across the boundaries, but what would it be like if you put cameras and audios in everybody's room and everybody's house and, and, and you get that 24 hour or you get seven days of feedback, you know, but but we never did that one because I would probably have to do it in my own house.
• 22:11
  But but it's exactly that same piece. And what would that feel like. But you know, is okay. So I've thought about this before, but here's the thought I've had is that, you know, the cameras have become so much more commonplace for, for like, intruders, right? Yeah. So shooting people out. Well, if we're really honest, the bigger threat is probably what's inside.
• 22:35
  You know, the, the bigger the probably the more helpful way to use those cameras is to watch. Yeah. Yeah. That's the biggest threat. That's so good. Yeah. I mean, how often and you say this and you know, you know what this about these habits. But how often are you having a trigger. Yeah. You know, like your bigger problem is probably what you're doing on camera.
• 22:53
  And think about Abraham Lincoln's quote talking about our great country. But think about it now for your family. He said, we will never be destroyed from the outside if we falter and lose our freedoms or lose whatever that may be for your family, it's because we destroyed ourselves. Yeah, yeah. So flip the ring cameras around is what you're saying.
• 23:17
  Don't get a second 1 in 1 out and then you're protected I guess from the outside. What you so drew here's, here's the thing. We need to kind of unpack. We may not have time for it. We talk a lot about what happens when your values come into conflict. So I value being present for you, my family, but I also value the work that I do.
• 23:37
  I value having time with my family, but I also value providing for my family. I value hard work, but I also value hobbies. You know, that might. But but when our values come into conflict, I don't think we do a good job of solving them. We just constantly feel that tension go back to our identity and what we know a lot of people tell us is, I'm not winning at work or at home, and I think it's because of these pulling values, intentions that are good things, but we don't know how to solve them or we're not committed enough to solve it.
• 24:14
  Yeah, I think that's often wise. The our stated priorities are different from our lived priorities. Yeah, that's really what I think. You go out here and you say yes. And I mean, I think that it's got to begin with, do you even feel the tension? Yeah. That's the scariest part to me is like, do you even feel the tension of what your life is saying versus what you say your values are?
• 24:39
  Yeah. And we don't want to assume that people are mixed up on that. But I think a lot of folks probably are. And I think part of the growth of children is they got a, you know, what they've absorbed by you, right? Whether this, visible or invisible curriculum, at some point, part of their development and given are like they're going to make it their own.
• 25:00
  They've got to create their own vision, their own values. And so they tend to live up to somebody else's expectations or assumed expectations without really knowing. And so we're trying to empower you to get ahead of the curve for your children. But then also when your children go to have children that they already understand, how do I just give meaningful thought and intentional thought around, how do we want to show up each and every day?
• 25:25
  What are the things we really value and create some kind of metric accountability to get feedback on it? All right, so let's do this. I know we need to kind of move toward the finish line here. Let's get practical. You know we've talked a lot of conceptually. We've tried to hit on some hopefully informative places to go when you're assessed like I'm I'm gonna put this one on you.
• 25:49
  So get you moderate ready here I'm a parent of digested this conversation. What's my next move?
• 25:58
  To me, whether you're a single parent or in a relationship, I think it's time for some reflection in. And to sit down. If you've never done it and go back to a what is our vision for our family? What are the values that we think are really important? And I think you do a beautiful job of helping people operationalize their values.
• 26:20
  And so as you think about those values, whether it is integrity, your positive attitude or work ethic or love or or grace, whatever those values may be. Well, they're what what do they really look like at home. Yeah. And then ask, are they are are you living consistent with that. Yeah. That's my where I would start. How about you I think that's great.
• 26:41
  And I'll just complement what you're saying in that. And some people will kind of poke fun at this question because it's sometimes it's maybe sort of a bit corny, but, if you made an attempt to provide evidence of, hey, this is my value and it's true in my life, you know, whether it be enough available to collect.
• 27:02
  Yeah. And, I think that's a healthy question to ask yourself. You know, if you have to go on the hunt to collect evidence of this value being present in your life, how hard would it be? Yeah, I think it's a good place to start. Yeah. And so as you do that on self-reflection or with your partner or your spouse, then I think it's healthy.
• 27:21
  And you've done this for a long time, and I've done it for like get feedback from your children. Yeah. You should. I mean, one of our core values Mickey kind of came up with in first grade is like, louder, never quit like she was. She was 6 or 7 years old when it kind of had to work on a sentence with the word quit.
• 27:36
  And so whenever, like, we don't give up that mean life in hard, it's one bite your kids. And part of the process and in and create some ways to kind of get that feedback, that evidence that says, am I really living according to what I believe and what is truly important? You know what your quote from, Jim Elliot?
• 27:56
  What is that? He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. Yeah, a lot of wisdom in that. Yeah. All right. Well, I know we need to wrap up for today. I feel like this, and we need to say this again at the end. We are on the journey with you.
• 28:09
  Yes. These things go. And by no means have the corner on any of these things. We've got more than enough, failures as parents we could talk about to show up many a podcast. So we are with you in the. In the foxhole. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And and I think, you know, give us some feedback again. Follow us.
• 28:28
  Like us. I'm not quite sure on that, but some questions. Where are you struggling with this? At what stages and ages are your children? It's never too late. It's never too late to really spend some time thinking about this. If you even have older children like we do. Or. Or maybe you have grandchildren now, it's okay to admit you made some mistakes.
• 28:47
  It's okay to say you're sorry. It's okay to ask for forgiveness. It's okay to be human in that process. And I think those are like, if there's one thing I would like, have the courage to look in the mirror, but also have the courage to be honest with those that are in your family. Yeah. Please. Otherwise you're it's a little bit of an exercise in futility.
• 29:08
  Yes. Okay. Well, as always, grateful for everybody tuning in to the growth project. And we will look forward to our next opportunity to be with you real soon. Yeah. Thanks.