Latest / Deep Transformation / Bedazzled Mind, Boundless Heart: Living as the Love We Always Longed For

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Bedazzled Mind, Boundless Heart: Living as the Love We Always Longed For · Deep Transformation

0:00
Welcome
0:00
to
0:01
the
0:01
fourth
0:01
conversation
0:02
in
0:02
our
0:02
Path
0:03
of
0:03
Love
0:03
series
0:03
with
0:04
AH
0:04
Almas,
0:05
AKA
0:05
Hamid
0:06
Ali,
0:07
focusing
0:07
on
0:07
the
0:07
last
0:07
chapters
0:08
of
0:08
his
0:08
latest
0:08
book,
0:09
the
0:09
Inner
0:09
Beloved.
0:10
Roger
0:10
and
0:10
I
0:10
are
0:11
so
0:11
honored
0:11
to
0:11
have
0:11
this
0:12
opportunity
0:12
to
0:12
share
0:13
these
0:13
conversations
0:14
with
0:14
one
0:14
of
0:14
our
0:14
human
0:15
tribe's
0:15
greatest
0:16
sages.
0:16
So
0:17
far
0:17
we
0:17
have
0:17
released
0:18
23
0:18
of
0:18
these
0:19
talks
0:19
with
0:19
more
0:19
on
0:20
the
0:20
way.
0:24
Welcome
0:25
to
0:25
Deep
0:26
Transformation
0:26
Self,
0:27
Society,
0:28
Spirit
0:28
Life
0:29
Life
0:29
enhancing,
0:29
paradigm
0:30
rattling
0:31
conversations
0:31
with
0:32
cutting
0:32
edge
0:32
thinkers,
0:33
contemplatives
0:34
and
0:34
activists
0:35
with
0:35
Dr.
0:35
Roger
0:36
Walsh
0:36
and
0:36
John
0:36
Dupuis.
0:41
Welcome
0:41
to
0:41
Deep
0:42
Transformation,
0:43
Self,
0:43
Society,
0:43
Spirit.
0:44
Our
0:45
co
0:45
hosts
0:45
are
0:46
John
0:46
Dupuis
0:47
and
0:47
myself,
0:47
Roger
0:47
Walsh.
0:48
And
0:49
today
0:49
we
0:50
are
0:50
continuing
0:50
with
0:51
our
0:51
series
0:51
with
0:52
Hamid
0:52
Ali,
0:52
whose
0:53
pen
0:53
name
0:53
is
0:53
AH
0:54
Almas.
0:55
The
0:55
Path
0:56
of
0:56
Love
0:56
series
0:57
in
0:58
which
0:58
we
0:58
are
0:59
discussing
0:59
in
1:00
particular
1:01
his
1:01
most
1:01
recent
1:02
book
1:02
the
1:02
Inner
1:02
Beloved,
1:03
which
1:03
is
1:04
the
1:04
culmination
1:05
of
1:05
his
1:05
love
1:06
trilogy.
1:07
Beginning
1:07
with
1:08
Love
1:09
Unveiled,
1:10
then
1:11
following
1:11
with
1:12
Non
1:13
Dual
1:13
Love
1:14
and
1:15
most
1:15
recently
1:16
just
1:16
released
1:17
the
1:17
Inner
1:18
Beloved.
1:19
And
1:20
this
1:20
has
1:20
been
1:21
a
1:21
wonderful
1:21
dialogue
1:22
series
1:23
in
1:23
which
1:23
we've
1:24
really
1:24
explored
1:25
the
1:25
ideas
1:26
in
1:26
this
1:27
very
1:27
profound
1:28
portrayal
1:29
of
1:30
the
1:30
path
1:30
of
1:30
love
1:31
and
1:32
its
1:32
culmination
1:33
in
1:34
some
1:35
quite
1:36
extraordinary
1:37
realizations.
1:39
So
1:39
today
1:40
I
1:40
want
1:40
to
1:40
begin
1:41
with
1:41
the
1:41
topic
1:42
which
1:42
Hamid
1:43
devotes
1:43
two
1:44
chapters
1:44
to
1:45
on
1:45
the
1:46
relative
1:46
roles
1:47
of
1:48
the
1:48
heart
1:49
and
1:49
the
1:50
mind.
1:51
And
1:51
maybe
1:51
Hamid,
1:52
I'll
1:52
begin
1:52
by
1:53
quoting
1:54
a
1:54
part
1:55
of
1:55
a
1:55
poem
1:56
that
1:56
you
1:56
yourself
1:57
use
1:57
at
1:57
the
1:57
beginning
1:57
of
1:58
the
1:58
chapter
1:58
titled
1:59
Bedazzlement.
2:00
You're
2:00
quoting
2:00
Kabir,
2:01
the
2:01
15th
2:02
century
2:03
Indian
2:03
mystic
2:04
poet
2:04
who
2:05
says
2:06
those
2:06
who
2:06
hope
2:07
to
2:07
be
2:07
reasonable
2:08
about
2:08
it
2:09
fail.
2:09
The
2:10
arrogance
2:10
of
2:10
reason
2:11
has
2:11
separated
2:12
us
2:13
from
2:13
that
2:13
we
2:14
love.
2:14
With
2:15
the
2:15
word
2:15
reason
2:16
you
2:17
already
2:17
feel.
2:18
Miles
2:18
away
2:20
or
2:20
the
2:20
path
2:20
of
2:20
love.
2:21
Very,
2:22
very
2:22
true.
2:23
Path
2:24
of
2:24
love
2:24
is
2:24
basically,
2:25
you
2:26
know,
2:26
it
2:26
doesn't
2:27
feel
2:27
reasonable
2:28
or
2:28
logical
2:29
or
2:29
anything
2:29
like
2:30
that.
2:30
It's
2:30
like
2:32
you're
2:33
driven
2:34
by
2:34
deeper
2:35
forces
2:35
that
2:37
mind
2:38
cannot
2:38
fathom.
2:39
That's
2:39
why
2:40
I
2:40
mentioned
2:40
sometimes
2:44
this
2:44
unfoldment
2:45
that
2:45
happens
2:47
and
2:47
tame
2:48
the
2:48
path
2:48
of
2:48
love
2:49
is
2:49
not
2:50
something
2:50
that
2:50
can
2:50
we
2:51
can
2:51
make
2:52
happen.
2:53
We
2:53
cannot
2:54
really.
2:55
It
2:55
just
2:55
befalls
2:56
us
2:57
and
2:57
the
2:57
heart
2:58
opens.
2:58
And
2:59
I
2:59
mean
3:00
I
3:00
remember
3:00
for
3:01
myself
3:02
my
3:02
heart
3:02
in
3:03
general.
3:04
When
3:04
I
3:04
started
3:05
spiritual
3:05
work
3:06
I
3:06
got
3:06
more.
3:07
My
3:07
heart
3:08
was
3:08
more
3:08
active
3:09
by
3:09
engaging
3:10
spiritual
3:10
work
3:11
and
3:11
became
3:11
more
3:12
active
3:12
both
3:13
because
3:13
the
3:13
inner
3:14
realm
3:14
and
3:15
the
3:15
human
3:15
realm
3:16
happened
3:16
around
3:16
the
3:16
same
3:17
time.
3:17
And
3:17
I
3:17
was
3:17
falling
3:18
in
3:18
love
3:18
all
3:18
over
3:18
the
3:18
place
3:19
because
3:19
my
3:19
heart
3:19
opened
3:22
and
3:22
they
3:22
helped
3:23
each
3:23
other.
3:23
Falling
3:24
in
3:24
love
3:24
was
3:25
heartache
3:26
and
3:26
stuff
3:26
with
3:27
it
3:27
and
3:27
excitement
3:28
and
3:28
all
3:28
that.
3:29
So
3:30
that
3:30
was
3:30
intertwined
3:31
with
3:33
the
3:34
deep
3:34
feeling,
3:35
deep
3:36
uncontrollable
3:38
feeling
3:38
that
3:39
there's
3:39
something
3:39
I
3:40
love.
3:40
I
3:40
Don't
3:41
yet
3:42
know.
3:42
And
3:43
feeling
3:44
sort
3:44
of
3:45
heart
3:45
driven
3:45
towards
3:46
this.
3:47
It's
3:47
not
3:47
like
3:48
a
3:48
driven
3:50
neurotic.
3:50
It's
3:51
more
3:51
like
3:51
some
3:52
force
3:52
was
3:53
taking
3:53
it
3:54
in.
3:54
That
3:55
force
3:55
is
3:55
beyond
3:56
the
3:56
mind.
3:56
I
3:56
didn't
3:57
know
3:57
where
3:58
my
3:58
heart
3:58
was
3:58
taking
3:59
me.
3:59
What
4:00
does
4:00
it
4:00
really
4:00
want?
4:01
Just
4:02
for
4:02
a
4:02
while
4:02
I
4:03
was
4:03
seeing
4:04
the
4:04
love
4:04
for
4:04
the
4:04
truth,
4:05
which
4:05
is
4:05
true.
4:06
It
4:06
is
4:06
a
4:06
love
4:06
for
4:07
truth,
4:08
specific
4:08
truth.
4:09
Truth
4:09
comes
4:09
in
4:09
many
4:10
ways.
4:11
My
4:11
teaching
4:11
is
4:12
mostly
4:13
motivated
4:13
by
4:13
the
4:14
love
4:14
for
4:14
truth.
4:15
At
4:15
some
4:15
point
4:15
the
4:16
love
4:16
for
4:16
truth
4:17
becomes
4:17
specific.
4:18
The
4:18
love
4:19
for
4:19
the
4:19
inner
4:20
beloved,
4:21
the
4:21
beloved
4:22
of
4:22
the
4:22
heart.
4:23
We
4:23
talked
4:23
about
4:24
all
4:24
the
4:24
things
4:25
that
4:25
are
4:25
in
4:25
the
4:26
way.
4:26
The
4:26
heart,
4:27
polygamy
4:28
and
4:28
having
4:28
many
4:29
loves,
4:29
which
4:30
I
4:30
must
4:30
have
4:30
a
4:30
good
4:31
experience
4:32
of
4:32
myself.
4:34
Love
4:34
like
4:34
many
4:35
things,
4:35
many
4:35
people.
4:37
And
4:37
it's
4:37
like
4:38
I
4:38
didn't
4:39
do
4:39
anything.
4:39
It
4:39
just
4:40
happened,
4:40
you
4:41
know,
4:41
I
4:41
mean,
4:41
I
4:42
was
4:42
practicing,
4:42
I
4:43
was
4:43
meditating,
4:43
doing
4:44
all
4:44
the
4:44
kind
4:44
of
4:44
stuff.
4:45
But
4:45
I
4:46
didn't
4:46
know
4:46
I'm
4:46
also
4:47
going
4:47
to
4:47
go
4:47
in
4:47
that
4:47
direction.
4:48
Or
4:49
some
4:49
part
4:49
of
4:50
my
4:50
process
4:50
was
4:51
going
4:51
to
4:51
naturally
4:52
gravitate
4:53
in
4:53
this
4:53
direction.
4:54
Which
4:54
is
4:54
deepening
4:55
in
4:55
the
4:55
heart
4:56
opening
4:56
of
4:56
the
4:56
heart.
4:57
Hamid,
4:57
you
4:58
say
4:58
in
4:58
this
4:58
book
4:59
that
4:59
you
4:59
had
4:59
lived
5:00
in
5:00
the
5:00
realization
5:01
of
5:01
the
5:01
absolute
5:03
for
5:03
many
5:03
years.
5:04
Yes.
5:05
And
5:05
before
5:06
this
5:06
realization
5:07
of
5:07
the
5:07
inner
5:08
beloved.
5:08
And
5:08
when
5:09
that
5:09
happened,
5:09
you
5:09
said
5:10
you
5:10
find.
5:10
It
5:10
was
5:10
like
5:11
you
5:11
found
5:11
your
5:11
way
5:11
home.
5:12
You
5:13
found.
5:13
Yeah,
5:14
you
5:14
just.
5:15
Your
5:15
heart's
5:16
heart.
5:16
You
5:16
just
5:16
found
5:17
home
5:17
when
5:17
you
5:17
discovered
5:18
the
5:18
inner
5:18
beloved
5:18
and
5:19
realized
5:19
what
5:19
you
5:19
were
5:19
doing.
5:20
And
5:20
that's
5:20
interesting
5:21
thing
5:21
that
5:21
many
5:22
people
5:22
who
5:23
know
5:24
the
5:25
absolute
5:25
nature,
5:26
deep
5:26
mystery
5:27
of
5:27
being.
5:27
I
5:28
mean
5:29
most
5:29
people,
5:29
it's
5:30
not
5:30
a
5:30
hard
5:30
thing.
5:31
It's
5:31
more
5:31
a
5:32
mind
5:32
thing.
5:33
Awakening
5:34
and
5:34
realization,
5:35
whatever.
5:36
But
5:37
although
5:37
that
5:38
was
5:38
already
5:39
happening
5:39
for
5:39
me,
5:41
I
5:41
didn't
5:41
experience
5:42
that
5:42
kind
5:42
of
5:43
in
5:43
depth
5:43
vastness
5:45
through
5:45
the
5:45
heart.
5:46
First
5:46
it
5:47
was.
5:47
I
5:47
was
5:47
considering
5:48
awareness.
5:48
I
5:49
was.
5:50
I've
5:50
talked
5:50
about
5:51
that.
5:51
I
5:51
was
5:52
teaching
5:53
about
5:53
pure
5:53
awareness,
5:54
clarity.
5:55
And
5:56
that's
5:56
when
5:57
myself,
5:58
my
5:58
experience
5:59
moved
6:00
while
6:00
I
6:01
was
6:01
teaching
6:02
to
6:02
some
6:03
other
6:03
realm
6:04
that
6:04
took
6:04
me
6:04
to
6:04
some
6:06
outer
6:06
space
6:07
where
6:07
there's
6:07
no
6:08
light,
6:08
you
6:08
know.
6:10
I
6:10
realized
6:10
the
6:11
awareness
6:11
was
6:11
little
6:12
island,
6:13
the
6:13
middle
6:13
of
6:13
this
6:14
mystery.
6:15
That
6:15
was
6:15
the
6:16
beginning
6:16
of
6:17
experiencing
6:17
that
6:18
realm,
6:18
that
6:19
dimension.
6:19
But
6:20
it
6:20
wasn't
6:20
hard
6:20
then.
6:21
That's
6:21
what
6:21
I
6:21
mean.
6:22
So
6:22
I
6:22
was
6:23
experiencing
6:24
and
6:24
working
6:25
through
6:26
the
6:26
obstacles
6:27
to
6:27
it.
6:27
Or
6:27
the
6:28
beliefs
6:28
that
6:29
are
6:29
contrary
6:30
to
6:30
it.
6:30
Before
6:31
at
6:31
some
6:32
point
6:32
the
6:32
heart
6:33
thing
6:33
became
6:34
active
6:35
longing
6:35
and
6:36
whatever.
6:36
And
6:36
I
6:37
didn't
6:37
know
6:37
it
6:37
was
6:37
longing
6:38
for
6:38
that
6:38
thing.
6:39
Because
6:39
I
6:39
already
6:39
was
6:40
feeling
6:40
well
6:41
established
6:41
in
6:42
this
6:43
silence
6:43
and
6:43
stillness
6:44
and
6:44
peace.
6:45
But
6:45
then
6:46
the
6:46
heart
6:46
process
6:47
began.
6:48
And
6:49
basically
6:50
Took
6:50
me
6:51
to
6:51
experiencing
6:52
that
6:52
realm,
6:53
that
6:53
vastness,
6:55
that
6:55
beautiful
6:56
vastness
6:57
through
6:57
the
6:58
heart.
6:58
Which
6:59
like,
6:59
the
6:59
heart
6:59
became
7:00
like
7:00
an
7:00
organ
7:00
of
7:01
perception
7:02
where
7:02
things
7:03
were
7:03
emerging
7:03
within
7:04
it.
7:04
And
7:06
this
7:06
is
7:06
how
7:07
for
7:07
most
7:07
people,
7:08
perception.
7:08
People
7:08
feel
7:09
the
7:09
feeling
7:09
and
7:10
emotion
7:10
and
7:10
stuff
7:11
that
7:11
has
7:11
perception.
7:12
But
7:13
what
7:13
was
7:13
happening
7:14
was
7:14
beyond
7:14
those
7:14
things,
7:15
beyond
7:15
the
7:16
feeling
7:16
and
7:16
longing.
7:17
I
7:17
mean,
7:18
there
7:18
was
7:18
love,
7:18
longing,
7:19
yearning
7:19
as
7:20
part
7:20
of
7:20
the
7:20
opening
7:20
of
7:21
the
7:21
heart.
7:23
It
7:23
was
7:23
opening
7:23
to
7:25
something.
7:25
I
7:26
didn't
7:26
know
7:26
it
7:26
was
7:26
going
7:27
to
7:27
be
7:28
that
7:28
vastness,
7:30
but
7:30
it
7:30
appeared.
7:31
When
7:31
it
7:31
appeared,
7:32
the
7:32
heart
7:32
was
7:32
different.
7:34
It
7:34
had
7:35
more
7:35
sense
7:35
of
7:35
intimacy,
7:36
sense
7:37
at
7:37
home,
7:38
you
7:39
know,
7:39
that
7:39
finally
7:40
felt
7:41
like
7:41
home
7:41
in
7:42
a
7:42
very
7:42
sort
7:42
of
7:43
pure
7:43
way.
7:44
You
7:44
know,
7:44
how
7:44
people
7:44
like
7:45
being
7:45
at
7:45
home
7:46
and
7:46
then
7:46
go
7:46
to
7:47
work,
7:47
do
7:47
things.
7:47
And
7:48
I
7:48
finally
7:48
got
7:48
home
7:48
to
7:49
rest
7:49
and
7:49
just
7:50
be
7:50
himself,
7:50
be
7:51
at
7:51
ease.
7:51
It's
7:52
like
7:52
that.
7:52
But
7:52
there's
7:53
nobody
7:53
there.
7:54
Nobody
7:55
there.
7:55
Being
7:55
at
7:55
peace
7:56
is
7:56
just
7:56
the
7:56
peace
7:57
itself,
7:57
you
7:57
know,
7:58
and
7:58
the
7:58
home
7:58
itself.
7:59
So
7:59
being
8:00
at
8:00
home
8:00
is
8:00
home,
8:01
disappearing
8:02
as.
8:03
As
8:03
inspir.
8:04
That's
8:04
why
8:06
do
8:06
people
8:06
like
8:07
the
8:07
feeling,
8:07
being
8:08
at
8:08
home?
8:08
Is
8:09
it
8:09
because
8:09
it
8:09
just
8:09
protects
8:10
them
8:10
from
8:10
outside?
8:11
That's
8:12
not
8:12
just
8:12
it.
8:13
There's
8:13
more
8:14
about
8:14
aloneness
8:15
and
8:15
privacy
8:16
and
8:16
not
8:17
having
8:17
to
8:17
contend
8:18
with
8:18
the
8:18
world
8:18
as
8:19
well.
8:20
And
8:20
Hamid,
8:20
you
8:21
talked
8:21
about
8:21
the
8:21
impossibility
8:23
of
8:23
the
8:24
mind
8:25
comprehending
8:26
how
8:27
nothingness
8:28
and
8:28
everythingness
8:29
is
8:30
all
8:30
the
8:30
same.
8:30
And
8:31
everything
8:31
consists
8:32
of
8:32
this.
8:32
You
8:32
know,
8:32
it's
8:33
just
8:33
beyond
8:33
emptiness,
8:34
beyond
8:35
being.
8:35
It's
8:36
more
8:36
than
8:36
that.
8:37
And
8:37
that
8:37
the
8:37
mind
8:38
just
8:38
can't
8:38
do
8:39
it.
8:39
And
8:39
I
8:39
recall
8:39
a
8:39
quote
8:40
by
8:40
Augustine,
8:40
he
8:41
says,
8:41
if
8:41
you
8:41
can
8:42
understand
8:42
it,
8:42
it's
8:42
not
8:43
God.
8:44
I
8:44
was
8:44
like,
8:44
okay,
8:45
that's
8:45
good.
8:46
And
8:46
but
8:47
you
8:47
said
8:47
that
8:47
the
8:47
heart
8:48
can
8:48
intimately
8:50
get
8:50
this
8:50
stuff
8:51
where
8:51
the
8:51
mind
8:51
just
8:52
gets.
8:52
Reaches
8:53
the
8:53
limits
8:54
of
8:54
what
8:54
it's
8:54
able
8:54
to
8:54
do
8:54
and
8:54
just
8:55
goes
8:55
like,
8:55
that's
8:56
it,
8:56
I
8:56
can't
8:56
go
8:56
anymore.
8:57
And
8:58
that
8:58
actually
8:58
illuminates
8:59
the
8:59
mind
8:59
to
8:59
be
9:00
at
9:01
some
9:01
other
9:01
level
9:01
but
9:01
the
9:01
heart.
9:02
And
9:03
it's
9:03
not
9:03
this
9:03
big,
9:03
vast,
9:04
everything
9:05
is.
9:05
But
9:05
it's.
9:06
It's
9:06
completely
9:07
intimate,
9:08
which
9:08
really
9:09
speaks
9:09
to
9:09
me.
9:09
And
9:09
it's
9:10
quite
9:10
beautiful.
9:11
Yeah.
9:11
And
9:12
it's
9:12
a
9:12
sense
9:12
of
9:12
intimacy.
9:13
Heart
9:13
knowledge,
9:14
you
9:14
can
9:14
call
9:14
it,
9:15
or
9:15
heart
9:16
experience.
9:17
And
9:18
I
9:18
mean
9:18
that
9:19
tells
9:19
us
9:19
that
9:20
the
9:20
heart
9:20
has
9:21
its
9:21
own
9:21
knowingness,
9:22
which
9:23
many
9:23
tradition
9:23
understood.
9:25
Heart
9:25
knowledge
9:25
is
9:26
not
9:26
the
9:26
same
9:26
as
9:27
mind
9:27
knowledge,
9:28
but
9:28
this
9:28
is
9:28
very
9:29
distinctly
9:30
clear
9:30
as
9:31
a
9:31
heart
9:31
knowledge
9:32
where
9:33
the
9:33
mind
9:33
cannot
9:34
touch,
9:34
cannot
9:34
reach.
9:36
The
9:36
mind
9:36
in
9:36
some
9:37
sense,
9:38
the
9:38
usual,
9:38
what
9:39
we
9:39
call
9:39
mind,
9:40
you
9:40
know,
9:40
the
9:40
thinking,
9:41
reasoning
9:41
mind.
9:42
It
9:42
can
9:43
only
9:43
comment
9:44
about
9:44
that.
9:45
It
9:45
can
9:45
only
9:45
sort
9:46
of
9:46
at
9:46
the
9:46
beginning,
9:47
it's
9:47
not
9:47
even
9:47
coming.
9:48
It's
9:48
just
9:48
bedazzled
9:49
because
9:49
the
9:50
mind,
9:50
behold
9:52
what
9:52
the
9:52
heart
9:53
has
9:54
taken
9:55
us
9:55
to.
9:56
And
9:57
it
9:57
just
9:57
get
9:58
bedazzled
9:59
and
10:00
odd,
10:01
you
10:01
know,
10:01
because
10:02
it's
10:02
beyond
10:02
it.
10:03
So
10:04
the
10:04
mind
10:04
is
10:04
not
10:05
necessarily
10:06
having
10:06
trouble
10:06
with
10:06
it,
10:07
but
10:07
the
10:07
mind
10:08
is.
10:08
Instead
10:09
of
10:10
having
10:10
an
10:10
understanding,
10:11
it
10:11
is
10:12
bedazzled
10:13
with
10:14
mystery
10:16
that
10:16
recognizes,
10:17
just
10:18
cannot
10:18
be
10:18
understood.
10:20
And
10:20
it's
10:20
a
10:20
very
10:20
beautiful
10:21
thing.
10:21
It's
10:21
an
10:22
awesome
10:22
thing
10:22
to
10:22
experience
10:23
this
10:23
bedazzlement,
10:24
this
10:24
luminosity,
10:25
when
10:25
the
10:26
mind
10:26
hits
10:26
its
10:26
limit
10:27
and
10:27
realizes,
10:27
well,
10:28
yep,
10:28
that's
10:29
it.
10:29
And
10:30
you
10:30
know,
10:30
it
10:30
has
10:30
to
10:31
be
10:31
the
10:31
heart.
10:31
It
10:32
has
10:32
to
10:32
be
10:32
the
10:32
heart.
10:32
Exactly.
10:33
And
10:34
it
10:34
is
10:34
a
10:34
beautiful
10:35
thing
10:35
and
10:35
a
10:35
satisfying
10:36
thing.
10:37
I
10:37
mean,
10:37
all
10:37
of
10:38
that,
10:38
our
10:38
satisfaction
10:39
come
10:39
from
10:39
the
10:39
heart.
10:41
You
10:41
know,
10:42
whatever
10:42
the
10:42
mind
10:43
does,
10:43
the
10:43
actual
10:44
feeling
10:44
of
10:44
satisfaction,
10:46
the
10:46
actual
10:47
contentment
10:48
or
10:48
satisfaction,
10:49
it's
10:49
all
10:49
heart
10:50
states.
10:51
You
10:51
know,
10:52
the
10:52
mind
10:52
kind
10:53
of
10:53
function
10:54
as
10:54
discriminating,
10:55
connecting
10:56
thing,
10:56
whatever.
10:57
But
10:57
when
10:57
it
10:57
comes
10:58
to
10:58
the
10:58
actual
10:58
states
10:59
of
11:00
that,
11:00
we
11:01
satisfy
11:02
our
11:02
liberation.
11:03
There
11:03
are
11:03
more
11:04
qualities
11:05
of
11:05
the
11:05
heart
11:06
and
11:07
our
11:07
beloved.
11:08
Although
11:08
it
11:08
is
11:09
the
11:09
very
11:09
nature
11:10
of
11:10
the
11:10
heart,
11:11
the
11:11
soul,
11:11
I
11:12
call
11:12
it
11:12
the
11:12
heart
11:12
dweller.
11:13
But
11:13
I
11:14
learned
11:14
that
11:15
the
11:16
heart
11:16
was
11:16
made
11:16
for
11:17
that.
11:18
You
11:18
know,
11:19
I
11:19
mean,
11:19
the
11:19
heart
11:19
was
11:20
there
11:20
for
11:20
the
11:21
beloved
11:21
to
11:22
have
11:23
its
11:23
own
11:25
seat,
11:25
its
11:26
own
11:26
channel
11:28
that's
11:28
more
11:29
full,
11:29
more
11:29
complete.
11:31
And
11:31
it's
11:31
not
11:32
like
11:32
the
11:32
mind
11:32
is
11:33
completely
11:34
denigrated
11:35
or
11:35
anything
11:35
like
11:35
that.
11:35
It's
11:36
more
11:36
like
11:36
it's
11:36
beyond
11:37
it.
11:38
And
11:38
if
11:39
we
11:39
really
11:40
have
11:40
traversed
11:41
the
11:41
path,
11:42
mind
11:43
comes
11:43
humbled,
11:44
recognizes
11:45
its
11:45
limitation
11:46
and
11:46
amid.
11:47
You
11:47
make
11:47
the
11:47
point
11:47
that
11:48
one
11:49
of
11:49
the
11:49
great
11:49
discoveries
11:50
with
11:50
the
11:51
beloved
11:52
is.
11:52
Well,
11:53
first
11:53
off,
11:53
you
11:54
emphasize
11:55
the
11:55
point
11:56
that
11:56
the
11:56
recognition
11:57
of
11:57
the
11:57
beloved
11:58
requires
11:59
a
11:59
shift
11:59
from
11:59
what
11:59
you
12:00
call
12:00
polygamy
12:01
to
12:02
monogamy.
12:02
That
12:03
is,
12:03
from
12:03
having
12:03
many
12:04
fickle,
12:04
fleeting
12:05
infatuations
12:06
of
12:07
one
12:07
kind
12:07
or
12:07
another
12:08
to
12:08
a
12:09
focused
12:10
love
12:11
on
12:11
the
12:12
absolute,
12:12
on
12:12
the
12:12
beloved.
12:13
But
12:13
you
12:14
emphasize
12:15
that
12:15
the
12:15
discovery
12:16
itself
12:17
is
12:17
a
12:17
recognition
12:18
that
12:18
the
12:18
beloved
12:19
has
12:19
always
12:19
been
12:19
there.
12:20
Yeah,
12:20
when
12:21
we
12:21
finally
12:22
beloved
12:23
shows
12:23
itself,
12:24
it's
12:24
always
12:24
been
12:25
there
12:25
on
12:25
the
12:26
inner
12:26
secret
12:27
of
12:27
the
12:27
heart,
12:28
which
12:28
is,
12:29
you
12:29
know,
12:29
a
12:29
consistent
12:30
thing
12:30
that
12:31
many
12:31
teachings
12:32
talk
12:32
about
12:32
or
12:33
many
12:33
people
12:33
who
12:34
get
12:35
to
12:35
that
12:36
depth
12:36
of
12:36
thing
12:37
and
12:37
that
12:37
they
12:37
feel
12:38
it's
12:38
almost
12:38
been
12:39
there.
12:39
I
12:39
mean,
12:39
that
12:40
Buddhists
12:41
talk
12:41
about
12:41
awareness
12:42
now
12:42
they
12:42
realize
12:43
that
12:43
has
12:43
always
12:44
been
12:44
the
12:44
case.
12:45
So
12:45
that
12:46
is
12:46
the
12:46
experience
12:47
actually,
12:47
when
12:47
you
12:48
get
12:48
there,
12:48
it's
12:48
that
12:49
always
12:50
really
12:50
the
12:50
inner
12:51
nature
12:51
of
12:51
the
12:51
heart.
12:52
And
12:52
it
12:52
is
12:53
the
12:53
reason
12:53
why
12:54
the
12:54
heart
12:54
was
12:54
longing
12:55
for
12:55
it.
12:56
The
12:57
heart
12:57
longing
12:58
to
12:58
the
12:58
beloved
12:59
is
12:59
nothing
12:59
but
13:00
the
13:00
beloved
13:00
approaching
13:01
the
13:02
heart,
13:02
recognition
13:03
of
13:03
its
13:03
nature.
13:04
And
13:05
you
13:05
make
13:05
a
13:05
point
13:06
which
13:06
I
13:06
haven't
13:07
seen
13:07
elsewhere.
13:07
Because.
13:08
Yes,
13:08
as
13:08
you
13:08
say,
13:09
a
13:10
number
13:10
of
13:10
traditions
13:11
point
13:11
to
13:12
the
13:13
kind
13:13
of
13:13
always
13:13
already
13:14
nature
13:14
of
13:14
the
13:14
discovery
13:15
that
13:15
it's
13:15
always
13:16
already
13:16
been
13:17
there,
13:17
but
13:17
we
13:17
haven't
13:18
been
13:18
recognized
13:18
it.
13:19
But
13:19
you
13:19
actually
13:20
give
13:21
some
13:21
explanations
13:21
of
13:22
why
13:22
we
13:22
don't
13:23
recognize
13:23
it,
13:23
which
13:24
I
13:24
haven't
13:25
seen.
13:25
One
13:25
is
13:25
that
13:26
you
13:26
say
13:26
it's
13:26
not
13:27
a
13:27
familiar
13:27
object.
13:29
And
13:29
second
13:30
that.
13:31
So
13:31
it's
13:31
a
13:31
radical
13:32
emptiness
13:33
and
13:33
it's
13:33
been
13:33
overshadowed
13:34
by
13:35
our
13:35
own
13:35
other
13:36
desires
13:37
and
13:38
object.
13:39
And
13:39
third,
13:40
that
13:40
we
13:40
mistake
13:41
the
13:41
emptiness
13:42
for
13:42
a
13:43
kind
13:43
of
13:43
deficiency
13:44
and
13:44
try
13:44
to
13:45
fill
13:45
it
13:45
with
13:46
other
13:46
objects.
13:47
I
13:48
haven't
13:48
seen
13:48
that
13:48
elsewhere.
13:49
Yeah,
13:50
that's
13:50
a
13:50
consistent
13:51
experience
13:52
for
13:52
myself.
13:53
Going
13:54
to
13:54
the
13:54
realm
13:54
of
13:55
being,
13:55
we
13:56
always
13:56
encounter
13:56
emptiness.
13:58
But
13:58
here
13:58
the
13:59
inner
13:59
beloved
14:00
is
14:00
a
14:00
kind
14:00
of
14:01
emptiness.
14:01
That's
14:01
the
14:01
thing.
14:01
It's
14:02
not
14:02
only
14:03
first
14:03
we
14:03
experience
14:04
emptiness
14:04
and
14:04
then
14:04
we
14:05
experience
14:05
the
14:05
beloved.
14:06
And
14:06
that
14:06
we
14:07
do.
14:07
That's
14:08
the
14:09
poverty,
14:09
the
14:09
inner
14:10
poverty
14:10
that
14:11
talks
14:11
about
14:11
the
14:11
heart
14:12
poverty
14:12
and
14:12
the
14:13
poverty
14:13
of
14:13
the
14:13
soul.
14:14
And
14:14
that's
14:14
conditioned
14:15
poverty.
14:15
We
14:15
go
14:15
through
14:16
it,
14:16
which
14:16
means
14:16
the
14:17
soul
14:17
doesn't
14:17
have
14:17
anything
14:18
of
14:18
its
14:18
own.
14:19
That
14:20
classic
14:21
child,
14:22
for
14:23
instance,
14:23
he
14:23
talks
14:23
about
14:24
that.
14:24
So.
14:25
And
14:25
then
14:25
there
14:25
is
14:25
the
14:26
poverty
14:26
of
14:26
the
14:26
heart.
14:27
Experience
14:27
that
14:27
through
14:27
the
14:28
heart.
14:29
But
14:29
then
14:29
we
14:30
go
14:30
through
14:30
that.
14:31
And
14:31
then
14:32
as
14:32
the
14:33
inner
14:33
beloved
14:34
begin
14:34
to
14:34
shine
14:35
through.
14:35
It
14:36
is
14:36
radiant
14:36
and
14:37
all
14:37
that.
14:37
But
14:37
it
14:38
is
14:38
a
14:38
radiant
14:38
nothing
14:39
painted
14:40
emptiness.
14:40
And
14:40
is
14:41
so
14:41
empty
14:43
that
14:44
it
14:44
defies
14:45
any
14:47
understanding
14:48
what
14:48
empty
14:48
can
14:48
be.
14:49
Because
14:49
it's
14:50
emptiness
14:50
is
14:51
always
14:51
like
14:51
something
14:51
is
14:52
empty,
14:52
you
14:53
know,
14:53
like
14:53
a
14:53
vacuity.
14:54
At
14:55
least
14:56
spaciousness,
14:57
you
14:57
know,
14:57
like
14:58
space.
14:58
This
14:59
one
14:59
is
15:00
even
15:00
the
15:00
elimination
15:01
space.
15:02
There's
15:02
no
15:02
container.
15:03
It's
15:03
just
15:04
emptiness.
15:05
Yeah,
15:05
it's
15:06
not
15:06
only
15:06
no
15:06
container,
15:07
it's
15:07
no
15:07
container.
15:08
Yes,
15:08
but
15:09
you
15:09
know,
15:10
outer
15:10
space,
15:11
you
15:11
could
15:11
say,
15:11
has
15:11
no
15:12
container,
15:13
goes
15:13
on
15:13
forever.
15:14
It
15:14
feels
15:15
that
15:15
way.
15:15
However,
15:16
it's
15:16
more
15:17
empty
15:17
than
15:17
that.
15:18
Meaning
15:19
it
15:19
doesn't
15:19
feel
15:20
like
15:20
it
15:20
is
15:20
something.
15:21
All
15:21
state
15:22
of
15:22
being
15:22
usually
15:23
experienced
15:24
as
15:24
a
15:24
consciousness
15:25
or
15:25
as
15:25
awareness
15:26
or
15:27
here
15:27
it
15:28
is
15:28
no
15:28
the
15:29
absence
15:29
of
15:29
all
15:30
of
15:30
those
15:30
things.
15:31
So
15:31
the
15:31
other
15:31
term
15:32
I
15:32
use
15:32
for
15:33
that
15:33
image
15:33
is
15:34
absence.
15:34
Absence
15:35
of
15:35
all
15:36
that,
15:36
everything,
15:37
all
15:38
categories
15:38
of
15:39
experience.
15:40
There
15:40
is
15:40
nothing
15:41
to
15:41
experience.
15:42
That's
15:43
why
15:43
I
15:43
also
15:43
call
15:44
it
15:44
divine
15:44
darkness.
15:46
You
15:46
see,
15:46
I
15:47
think
15:47
one
15:47
of
15:47
the
15:47
chapters
15:48
about
15:48
divine
15:48
darkness,
15:49
because
15:50
it's
15:50
a
15:50
kind
15:51
of
15:51
empty.
15:51
Buddhist
15:52
talk
15:52
about
15:52
empty
15:53
that
15:53
way.
15:53
They
15:54
talk
15:54
about
15:54
the
15:55
absence
15:55
of
15:56
inherent
15:56
existence,
15:58
but
15:58
they
15:59
think
15:59
of
15:59
it
15:59
as
15:59
absolute
16:00
here.
16:00
Existence
16:01
as
16:01
the
16:02
emptiness
16:02
of
16:04
object,
16:04
of
16:05
things.
16:05
Everything
16:06
doesn't
16:06
really
16:06
exist
16:07
here.
16:08
This
16:08
experience
16:09
has
16:09
A
16:09
continuum
16:10
of
16:10
its
16:10
own.
16:11
When
16:11
this
16:11
continuum
16:12
is
16:12
an
16:13
odd,
16:13
illogical
16:14
kind
16:14
of
16:14
continuum,
16:15
a
16:15
continuum
16:16
of
16:17
nothing.
16:17
I
16:18
mean,
16:18
there's
16:18
no
16:18
words
16:19
that
16:19
describe
16:20
it
16:20
even
16:21
nothing.
16:21
You
16:21
can
16:22
experience
16:22
nothing.
16:22
And
16:22
it
16:23
is
16:23
not
16:24
the
16:24
absence
16:25
of
16:25
this
16:25
beloved
16:26
is
16:26
more
16:26
empty
16:27
than
16:27
that.
16:28
It
16:28
is
16:28
so
16:28
empty
16:29
because
16:30
of
16:30
its
16:31
sheer
16:31
emptiness,
16:32
sheer
16:33
dissolving
16:34
of
16:35
any
16:35
possibility
16:36
of
16:37
anything
16:38
that
16:38
it's
16:39
liberating.
16:40
It
16:41
shines
16:42
because
16:42
of
16:42
how
16:43
empty
16:43
it
16:43
is.
16:44
It's
16:44
luminous
16:45
because
16:45
of
16:45
how
16:45
black
16:46
it
16:46
is.
16:47
So
16:47
its
16:48
blackness
16:49
is
16:49
because
16:49
there
16:50
is
16:50
nothing
16:50
there.
16:51
There's
16:51
no
16:51
light,
16:52
no
16:52
presence,
16:53
no
16:53
consciousness,
16:54
no
16:54
awareness.
16:55
That's
16:55
why
16:55
it
16:56
is
16:56
the
16:56
source
16:56
of.
16:56
Everything,
16:57
not
16:57
even
16:57
the
16:58
color.
16:58
Black
16:58
is
16:58
there?
16:59
Yeah,
16:59
I
16:59
mean,
16:59
we
16:59
call
17:00
it
17:00
black
17:00
because
17:00
there's
17:01
no
17:01
light.
17:02
So
17:02
what
17:02
do
17:02
you
17:02
call
17:02
that?
17:03
You
17:03
know,
17:04
darkness.
17:05
Do
17:05
you
17:05
call
17:06
that
17:06
black?
17:07
Well,
17:07
people
17:08
call
17:08
it
17:08
black.
17:08
If
17:09
you
17:09
have
17:09
an
17:09
empty
17:10
night
17:10
sky,
17:11
you
17:11
remove
17:11
all
17:12
the
17:12
stars,
17:13
you
17:13
call
17:13
it
17:14
black.
17:14
But
17:14
is
17:14
it
17:14
really
17:15
black
17:15
or
17:15
there's
17:16
no
17:16
light?
17:17
Yeah.
17:18
And
17:19
you
17:19
emphasize
17:19
amid
17:20
that
17:21
here
17:22
we
17:22
are
17:22
really
17:22
running
17:23
up
17:23
into
17:24
the
17:24
limits
17:24
of
17:24
the
17:24
intellect
17:25
that
17:25
you
17:26
are
17:26
giving
17:26
us
17:27
an
17:27
experiential
17:28
report
17:29
on
17:29
the
17:30
experience
17:30
of
17:30
the
17:30
beloved
17:31
and
17:31
its
17:31
non
17:32
being
17:33
and
17:33
the
17:33
mind.
17:34
My
17:34
mind
17:35
immediately
17:35
tries
17:36
to
17:36
make
17:36
sense
17:36
of
17:36
it
17:37
and
17:37
categorize,
17:37
et
17:38
cetera.
17:38
It
17:39
just
17:39
doesn't
17:39
work.
17:40
Yeah,
17:41
that
17:41
is
17:41
very
17:41
true.
17:42
And
17:42
it
17:42
takes
17:43
us
17:43
to
17:43
sort
17:43
of
17:44
to
17:44
the
17:44
limit
17:44
or
17:44
beyond
17:45
the
17:45
limit
17:45
of
17:46
when
17:46
the
17:46
mind
17:46
or
17:46
anything
17:47
that
17:48
can
17:49
discern
17:49
anything.
17:50
And
17:51
in
17:51
some
17:51
sense
17:52
it's
17:52
like
17:52
you
17:53
keep
17:53
eliminating
17:54
and
17:54
dissolving
17:55
things
17:56
until
17:56
there's
17:56
nothing
17:57
to
17:57
dissolve.
17:58
You
17:59
dissolve
17:59
space,
18:00
dissolve
18:01
emptiness,
18:01
you
18:02
dissolve
18:02
nothingness.
18:04
Nothing
18:04
to
18:04
dissolve.
18:06
I
18:06
mean.
18:07
And
18:07
that
18:07
tends
18:07
to
18:08
be
18:08
the
18:08
greatest
18:08
liberation.
18:10
Is
18:10
there
18:10
a
18:10
pure
18:11
essence
18:11
after
18:12
all
18:12
this
18:12
eliminating
18:13
the
18:13
veils
18:14
and
18:14
different
18:14
things,
18:14
it's
18:15
just
18:15
again,
18:15
words
18:16
are
18:16
failing
18:16
me
18:16
here.
18:16
I
18:17
think
18:17
of
18:17
it
18:17
as
18:18
the
18:18
essence
18:18
of
18:18
the
18:18
essence.
18:21
There
18:21
is
18:21
essence,
18:21
There
18:22
is
18:22
kind
18:22
of,
18:22
but
18:22
that
18:22
is
18:23
more
18:23
of
18:23
its
18:24
radiance
18:24
becomes
18:25
what
18:26
we
18:26
call
18:26
awareness
18:27
or
18:27
presence
18:28
or
18:28
essence.
18:29
You
18:29
also
18:29
say
18:30
amid
18:30
that
18:31
you're
18:31
very
18:32
clear,
18:32
it's
18:32
not
18:32
a
18:33
thing.
18:33
But
18:34
you
18:34
point
18:34
out
18:34
at
18:35
the
18:35
same
18:35
time,
18:35
it
18:36
is
18:36
the
18:36
essence
18:36
of
18:37
all
18:37
things.
18:38
Yeah,
18:39
yeah.
18:41
I
18:41
mean,
18:41
mystic
18:42
talk
18:42
about
18:42
how
18:43
being
18:43
comes
18:44
out
18:44
of
18:44
non
18:44
being,
18:45
for
18:45
instance,
18:46
and
18:46
there's
18:47
a
18:47
different
18:47
way
18:48
he
18:48
from
18:48
the
18:49
perspective
18:50
of
18:50
the
18:50
heart,
18:50
it
18:51
is
18:51
non
18:51
being.
18:52
But
18:53
what
18:53
is
18:53
non
18:53
being?
18:54
Non
18:54
being,
18:55
they
18:55
mean
18:55
there
18:55
is
18:56
nothing
18:56
there.
18:57
You
18:58
know,
18:58
non
18:58
being
18:59
is
18:59
not
18:59
just
19:00
the
19:00
opposite
19:00
of
19:01
category
19:02
of
19:02
being.
19:03
You
19:03
know,
19:03
it
19:04
is
19:04
when
19:04
being
19:05
is
19:05
eliminated,
19:06
mean
19:07
anything.
19:08
Everything
19:08
is
19:09
eliminated.
19:10
So
19:10
it
19:10
is
19:11
amazing
19:12
and
19:13
amazing
19:14
kind
19:14
of
19:15
nothing
19:15
to
19:15
be
19:15
found.
19:17
I
19:17
mean,
19:17
it
19:17
is
19:17
so
19:18
Much
19:18
nothing
19:19
to
19:19
be
19:19
found,
19:20
that
19:21
if
19:21
you
19:23
completely
19:23
look
19:23
into
19:24
it,
19:25
you
19:26
disappear.
19:26
There'll
19:27
be
19:27
no
19:27
experience
19:28
because
19:29
there's
19:29
nothing
19:29
there
19:29
to
19:30
see.
19:31
So
19:31
if
19:31
you
19:31
square
19:32
look
19:32
at
19:32
it
19:32
and
19:32
not
19:33
look
19:33
at
19:33
anything
19:33
else,
19:34
there
19:35
will
19:35
be
19:35
simply
19:36
like,
19:36
comma.
19:38
It'll
19:38
be
19:38
what
19:39
teaching
19:40
called
19:40
cessation
19:41
or
19:41
annihilation.
19:43
That
19:43
is
19:43
actually
19:44
the
19:45
source
19:45
of
19:45
all
19:45
annihilation
19:46
experiences
19:47
in
19:47
the
19:48
past.
19:49
Because
19:49
it
19:49
is
19:50
nothing.
19:51
It
19:51
has
19:51
a
19:51
corrosive
19:53
capacity
19:53
in
19:54
everything.
19:54
In
19:55
the
19:55
sense
19:55
it
19:55
takes
19:56
everything
19:56
and
19:56
dissolves
19:57
it.
19:58
So
19:58
it
19:58
dissolves
19:58
not
19:59
only
19:59
obstacles,
20:00
but
20:00
all
20:01
other
20:01
realities
20:02
and
20:02
truths.
20:03
And
20:03
you
20:04
talked
20:04
about
20:04
the
20:04
desire
20:06
at
20:06
a
20:06
certain
20:06
point
20:07
for
20:07
annihilation.
20:09
Yeah,
20:09
I
20:09
mean,
20:09
all
20:10
you.
20:10
All
20:10
you
20:10
care
20:10
about
20:10
is
20:11
this
20:11
thing
20:12
that
20:12
you
20:12
found.
20:12
And
20:12
you.
20:13
You
20:13
don't
20:13
want
20:13
to
20:13
be
20:13
you
20:14
anymore.
20:14
You
20:14
don't
20:14
want
20:14
anything.
20:15
You
20:15
just
20:15
want
20:15
to
20:16
dissolve
20:16
into
20:17
the
20:18
mystery.
20:18
It.
20:19
That
20:19
is
20:20
one
20:20
of
20:20
the
20:21
deeper
20:21
stages
20:22
of
20:22
the
20:22
path
20:23
is
20:23
as
20:23
you
20:24
come
20:24
close
20:24
to
20:24
it.
20:25
As
20:26
the
20:26
heart
20:26
comes
20:27
close
20:27
to.
20:28
Love
20:29
doesn't
20:30
want
20:30
anything
20:30
else.
20:31
It
20:31
wants
20:31
to
20:31
just
20:31
disappear
20:33
into
20:34
the
20:34
beloved
20:35
because
20:36
the
20:36
love
20:37
is
20:37
so
20:37
deep.
20:38
Say
20:39
only
20:39
you
20:40
be
20:40
not
20:41
me.
20:42
And
20:43
that's
20:43
what
20:43
many
20:43
of
20:43
the
20:44
poets
20:44
talk
20:44
about.
20:45
Rumi
20:46
and
20:46
other.
20:47
Some
20:47
of
20:48
the
20:48
Christian
20:48
mystics.
20:49
Yeah.
20:49
And
20:49
you
20:50
say
20:50
that
20:50
the
20:51
poets
20:51
use
20:52
metaphors.
20:53
One
20:53
can't
20:54
use
20:54
analytic
20:55
approaches,
20:56
but
20:56
the
20:56
poets
20:57
use
20:57
metaphor
20:58
as
20:58
pointers.
21:00
And
21:01
that
21:01
can
21:02
serve
21:02
as
21:03
long
21:03
as
21:03
one
21:03
doesn't
21:03
get
21:04
trapped
21:04
in
21:04
the
21:04
metaphor.
21:05
Yeah,
21:06
yeah.
21:07
The
21:07
metaphor
21:07
is
21:08
to
21:08
try
21:08
to
21:08
carry
21:08
you
21:09
further.
21:10
But,
21:11
you
21:11
know,
21:11
they
21:11
use
21:12
metaphor
21:12
because
21:12
it's
21:13
not
21:13
a
21:13
matter
21:13
of
21:13
reasoning.
21:14
It's
21:15
not
21:15
method
21:15
of
21:16
logical
21:17
necessity.
21:18
There
21:19
is
21:19
no
21:19
logical
21:20
necessity
21:20
of
21:21
it.
21:21
That
21:21
just
21:21
happened
21:22
to
21:22
be
21:22
what
21:23
is,
21:23
what
21:23
emerges
21:25
at
21:25
some
21:26
point.
21:26
And
21:27
Hamid,
21:27
you
21:27
said
21:28
it
21:28
humorously
21:29
at
21:29
some
21:29
point
21:29
in
21:30
this
21:30
book
21:30
that
21:30
God
21:30
is
21:30
a
21:30
flasher,
21:31
which
21:32
I
21:32
thought
21:32
was
21:32
great
21:33
because
21:33
when
21:34
I'm
21:34
studying
21:34
this
21:34
work,
21:35
I'm
21:35
nursing.
21:35
Sometimes
21:36
I
21:36
just
21:36
get
21:36
flashes.
21:37
Oh,
21:39
okay.
21:39
Well,
21:41
thank
21:41
you.
21:42
Thanks
21:42
for
21:42
nothing.
21:42
You
21:43
know,
21:44
that's
21:44
why
21:46
one
21:46
of
21:46
the
21:46
poets
21:47
referred
21:47
to
21:48
as
21:48
Iraqi
21:49
his
21:49
book
21:50
Divine
21:50
Flashes.
21:51
Yeah.
21:52
And
21:52
flash
21:53
is
21:53
seen
21:53
as
21:53
illumination,
21:54
light,
21:54
whatever,
21:55
but
21:56
also
21:56
flashing.
21:57
You
21:57
take
21:57
it
21:57
as
21:57
a
21:58
flash
21:58
is
21:58
open
21:58
up
21:59
and
21:59
reveal
21:59
what's
22:00
there.
22:00
So
22:01
God's
22:01
always
22:01
revealing
22:03
more
22:04
what
22:04
it
22:04
is.
22:06
I
22:06
mean,
22:06
I
22:06
can
22:07
imagine
22:07
someone
22:07
listening
22:08
to
22:08
this
22:08
and
22:08
hearing
22:09
this.
22:10
This
22:10
account
22:11
of
22:11
the
22:11
beloved
22:12
being
22:12
nothing
22:13
and
22:14
just
22:15
corrosive
22:15
and
22:16
dissolving
22:16
into
22:16
it
22:17
and
22:17
thinking,
22:18
why
22:18
would
22:18
I
22:19
want
22:19
that?
22:20
And
22:21
again,
22:22
it
22:22
feels
22:22
like
22:23
we're
22:23
really
22:23
at
22:23
the
22:24
limits
22:24
of
22:24
the
22:24
intellect
22:25
here.
22:25
And
22:25
you're
22:26
giving
22:26
us
22:26
a
22:26
report
22:27
from
22:27
a
22:27
direct
22:27
experience
22:28
of
22:28
something
22:29
not
22:29
only
22:30
profound,
22:30
but
22:31
profoundly
22:32
satisfying.
22:33
Ultimately
22:33
Satisfying
22:35
and
22:36
yet
22:36
so
22:37
hard
22:37
to
22:37
convey,
22:38
to
22:38
do
22:38
justice
22:39
to
22:40
in
22:40
words
22:41
or
22:41
concepts.
22:42
The
22:43
self
22:43
does
22:43
not
22:43
feel
22:44
towards
22:44
that.
22:45
It's
22:45
not
22:45
the
22:45
self
22:45
that
22:46
wants
22:46
it.
22:47
It's
22:47
the
22:47
heart
22:48
as
22:48
it
22:49
opens,
22:49
it's
22:49
just
22:50
gravitationally
22:51
pulled
22:51
there.
22:53
It's
22:53
not.
22:53
I
22:53
mean,
22:54
we
22:54
feel
22:54
it
22:54
as
22:55
one
22:55
thing.
22:55
It's
22:55
more
22:55
and
22:56
more
22:56
as
22:56
a
22:56
gravitational
22:57
pull.
22:58
And
22:58
at
22:59
some
22:59
point
22:59
the
22:59
gravitational
23:00
pull
23:00
is
23:00
so
23:01
powerful
23:02
that
23:03
we
23:03
have
23:03
no
23:04
control
23:04
over
23:04
it.
23:05
And
23:05
we
23:05
are
23:05
pulled.
23:06
As
23:07
we
23:07
are
23:07
pulled,
23:07
the
23:08
love
23:08
deepens
23:09
and
23:09
expands
23:10
and
23:10
intensifies
23:12
and
23:12
become
23:12
passionate.
23:13
And
23:13
the
23:13
passion
23:14
is
23:14
annihilating
23:15
it
23:15
by
23:15
itself.
23:16
The
23:16
passionate
23:17
love
23:17
is
23:17
so
23:18
like.
23:18
You
23:19
drown
23:19
in
23:20
the
23:20
passion
23:21
and
23:21
then
23:22
the
23:22
passion
23:22
is
23:23
an
23:23
ecstatic
23:23
passion.
23:24
It's
23:24
not
23:25
the
23:25
passion
23:26
most
23:26
people
23:27
think
23:27
of
23:27
passion,
23:29
passionate,
23:29
you
23:30
know,
23:30
feeling
23:30
about
23:30
one
23:31
thing
23:31
and
23:31
passionate
23:32
about
23:32
it.
23:32
But
23:32
this
23:33
is
23:33
completely
23:34
passion
23:35
that
23:35
dissolves.
23:36
The
23:37
passionate
23:38
compassion
23:39
is
23:39
so
23:39
powerful
23:40
because
23:41
it
23:41
is
23:42
really
23:42
the
23:43
action
23:43
of
23:44
the
23:44
beloved
23:45
on
23:46
the
23:46
consciousness.
23:48
Yeah,
23:49
yeah.
23:49
I
23:49
find
23:49
it
23:50
encouraging,
23:50
if
23:51
you
23:51
will,
23:51
that.
23:51
Because
23:52
I
23:52
was.
23:52
I
23:52
was
23:52
reading
23:53
the
23:53
first
23:53
part
23:53
of
23:53
the
23:53
book
23:53
where
23:53
you
23:54
said,
23:54
you
23:54
know,
23:54
you
23:54
gotta
23:55
have
23:55
your
23:55
heart
23:55
completely
23:56
pure
23:56
and
23:56
everything.
23:56
And
23:56
I'm
23:57
like,
23:57
oh,
23:58
my
23:58
God,
23:58
I
23:58
might
23:58
get
23:59
to
23:59
75%,
24:00
you
24:00
know,
24:00
but
24:00
I
24:00
don't
24:00
think
24:01
I
24:01
can
24:01
do
24:01
that
24:01
completely.
24:02
But
24:03
then
24:03
you
24:03
talk
24:03
about
24:03
the
24:03
beloved.
24:04
I
24:04
mean,
24:05
as
24:05
much
24:05
as
24:05
I
24:05
wanted,
24:06
it
24:06
wants
24:07
to
24:07
connect
24:08
also.
24:09
And
24:09
you
24:09
said
24:09
it's
24:09
a
24:10
magnetic
24:10
force.
24:12
It's
24:12
like,
24:12
I
24:12
can't
24:13
work
24:13
this
24:13
up
24:13
and
24:13
be
24:14
good
24:14
enough
24:14
and
24:14
pray
24:15
enough
24:15
and
24:15
forsake
24:16
enough
24:16
to
24:16
get
24:17
there.
24:17
But
24:17
it
24:18
pulls
24:18
us
24:18
into
24:18
it.
24:19
Well,
24:19
it
24:20
also.
24:20
What
24:20
makes
24:21
us
24:21
want
24:21
to
24:21
forsake
24:22
and
24:22
pray
24:22
and
24:22
all
24:22
of
24:22
that?
24:23
Where
24:24
do
24:24
you
24:24
that
24:24
impulse
24:25
come
24:25
from?
24:26
Yeah.
24:27
A
24:27
taste
24:27
of
24:27
it.
24:28
Yeah.
24:29
It's
24:29
so
24:29
great
24:29
that
24:30
every.
24:30
That
24:30
doesn't
24:31
matter
24:31
anymore.
24:32
Yeah.
24:32
I
24:32
mean,
24:32
it
24:33
is
24:33
all.
24:33
Even
24:34
the
24:34
longing
24:35
and
24:35
the
24:35
one
24:35
thing,
24:36
it
24:36
is
24:37
itself
24:37
coming
24:37
through
24:38
and
24:38
touching
24:39
us.
24:39
And
24:39
we
24:39
feel
24:40
that
24:40
being
24:40
touched
24:41
as
24:41
a
24:42
deep
24:42
longing
24:42
and
24:42
love,
24:43
its
24:43
own
24:44
touch,
24:44
its
24:44
own
24:45
kaas,
24:45
its
24:46
own
24:47
come
24:47
across
24:49
and
24:49
intimate
24:51
appeal
24:51
to
24:52
us
24:52
as
24:53
loss,
24:53
distance,
24:55
and
24:55
then
24:56
as
24:56
longing,
24:57
yearning,
24:58
compassion,
24:59
love,
24:59
all
25:00
those
25:00
are
25:00
really
25:01
the
25:01
action
25:01
of
25:02
the
25:02
beloved
25:02
itself
25:03
on
25:04
the
25:04
soul.
25:05
The
25:05
soul
25:06
believes
25:06
it
25:06
is
25:06
her
25:07
actions.
25:08
But
25:08
the
25:08
soul,
25:09
by
25:09
arriving
25:10
to
25:10
mystical
25:11
poverty,
25:12
it
25:12
doesn't
25:12
have
25:12
anything
25:13
of
25:13
its
25:13
own.
25:14
That's
25:14
what
25:14
mystical
25:15
poverty
25:15
means.
25:16
Not
25:16
even
25:17
longing.
25:18
Although
25:18
it
25:18
feels
25:19
that
25:19
way.
25:20
It
25:20
feels
25:21
that
25:21
way.
25:21
But
25:22
when
25:22
we
25:22
go
25:23
beyond,
25:23
we
25:23
realize
25:24
even
25:24
feeling
25:24
is
25:25
my
25:25
passion.
25:25
My
25:26
love
25:26
is
25:27
already
25:27
owning
25:28
something
25:28
that
25:29
doesn't
25:29
belong
25:29
to
25:30
you.
25:31
Not
25:32
what?
25:32
Mystical
25:32
poverty
25:33
is
25:33
a
25:33
great
25:35
teaching,
25:35
you
25:36
know,
25:37
recognizing
25:38
the
25:38
soul
25:38
has
25:38
nothing,
25:39
no
25:39
quality
25:40
Nothing.
25:40
Completely
25:41
empty.
25:41
Any
25:42
qualities
25:43
or
25:43
desires
25:44
or
25:45
faculties.
25:45
All
25:46
of
25:46
it
25:46
are
25:47
borrowed
25:49
from
25:49
the
25:49
beloved.
25:51
So
25:51
Hamid,
25:52
you
25:52
know,
25:52
talk
25:53
about
25:53
the
25:53
mind
25:53
reaching
25:54
its
25:54
limits.
25:55
And
25:55
the.
25:55
The
25:55
understanding
25:56
of
25:57
the
25:57
absolute
25:57
or
25:57
the
25:58
beloved
25:58
is
25:58
the
25:58
heart's
25:59
business.
25:59
It's
25:59
not
25:59
the
26:00
mind.
26:00
And
26:00
obviously
26:01
you
26:01
still
26:01
have
26:02
a
26:02
mind.
26:02
That
26:03
is
26:04
amazing.
26:04
And
26:05
creating
26:05
these
26:05
books
26:05
of
26:05
these
26:06
teachings,
26:06
profound
26:07
knowledge
26:07
of
26:08
so
26:08
many
26:08
things.
26:09
So
26:09
what
26:09
is
26:10
the
26:10
right
26:10
relationship
26:11
between
26:12
the
26:12
realization
26:13
of
26:13
inner
26:13
beloved
26:14
and
26:14
the
26:14
experience
26:15
of
26:15
that
26:15
knowledge
26:16
that
26:16
comes
26:16
from
26:16
the
26:16
heart
26:17
and
26:17
the
26:17
mind?
26:17
How
26:18
does
26:18
a
26:18
healthy
26:19
mind
26:19
then
26:19
deal
26:20
with
26:20
this
26:20
absolute
26:22
knowledge
26:22
that
26:22
comes
26:22
from
26:22
the
26:23
heart?
26:23
Well,
26:23
it
26:24
appears
26:24
that
26:24
I
26:24
have
26:25
a
26:25
mind.
26:25
I
26:26
don't
26:27
as
26:27
an
26:27
individual,
26:28
I
26:28
don't
26:28
have
26:28
a
26:29
mind.
26:30
It's
26:30
not
26:30
my
26:30
mind.
26:32
Imminent
26:32
truth
26:33
manifesting
26:35
as
26:35
a
26:36
mind
26:36
giving
26:37
me
26:37
capacity.
26:39
So
26:40
my
26:40
mind
26:40
is
26:40
borrowed.
26:42
It's
26:42
the
26:42
truth
26:43
working
26:44
through
26:44
this
26:45
individual.
26:46
That's
26:46
why
26:47
those
26:47
books
26:47
couldn't
26:48
be
26:48
written
26:48
by
26:48
an
26:48
individual.
26:51
Individual
26:52
will
26:52
not
26:52
have
26:53
that
26:53
knowledge.
26:53
How
26:53
can
26:54
an
26:54
individual
26:55
write
26:55
those.
26:56
Know
26:56
these
26:57
things
26:57
and
26:57
write
26:58
about
26:58
them.
26:59
So
26:59
it's
27:00
not
27:00
only
27:00
the
27:00
knowledge
27:01
itself
27:02
come
27:02
from
27:02
the
27:02
source.
27:03
Even
27:03
the
27:03
capacity
27:04
comes
27:05
from
27:05
the
27:05
source.
27:06
And
27:06
that
27:07
is
27:07
not
27:08
again
27:09
part
27:09
of
27:10
the
27:10
realization
27:10
of
27:11
mystical
27:12
poverty.
27:13
If
27:13
you
27:13
read
27:14
St.
27:14
John
27:14
the
27:15
Cross,
27:15
he
27:16
talks
27:16
about
27:17
all
27:17
our
27:17
faculties
27:18
are
27:18
not
27:19
ours.
27:19
Not
27:20
just
27:20
our
27:20
qualities,
27:21
even
27:22
our
27:22
faculty.
27:23
So
27:23
this
27:24
is
27:24
already
27:24
a
27:25
radical
27:25
non
27:25
duality.
27:26
I
27:26
mean,
27:27
it's
27:27
a
27:27
recognition
27:28
that
27:28
there
27:28
is
27:28
nothing
27:29
except
27:30
the
27:30
beloved
27:30
or
27:31
the
27:31
absolute.
27:32
And
27:32
in
27:32
this
27:32
case,
27:33
manifesting
27:34
as
27:35
and
27:35
through
27:35
us.
27:36
Yeah,
27:36
it
27:37
is
27:37
the
27:37
non
27:38
dual
27:38
view
27:39
from
27:40
the
27:40
perspective
27:40
of
27:40
the
27:41
heart.
27:42
I
27:42
mean,
27:43
and
27:43
the
27:43
book
27:43
does
27:44
go
27:44
into
27:44
that,
27:44
that
27:45
at
27:46
some
27:46
point
27:46
we
27:47
arrive
27:47
at
27:47
an
27:47
undual
27:48
kind
27:48
of
27:48
experience.
27:49
There's
27:50
no
27:51
particular
27:51
or
27:51
separate
27:52
individual.
27:53
And
27:54
in
27:54
a
27:54
sense,
27:54
in
27:54
owning
27:55
nothing,
27:55
you
27:56
kind
27:56
of
27:56
own
27:56
everything.
27:57
Yeah,
27:57
it's
27:58
like,
27:58
well,
27:59
I
27:59
own
27:59
everything,
27:59
but
28:00
not
28:00
as
28:00
an
28:00
individual.
28:01
Yeah,
28:02
the
28:02
beloved
28:03
owns
28:03
everything,
28:04
has
28:04
everything.
28:05
Everything
28:05
is.
28:05
It
28:06
is
28:06
its
28:06
manifestation,
28:07
its
28:08
body
28:08
or
28:08
its
28:08
mind,
28:09
mind.
28:10
People
28:10
talk
28:10
about
28:11
the
28:11
universe
28:11
as
28:12
God's
28:12
mind
28:13
or
28:13
God
28:13
heart.
28:14
That's
28:15
the
28:15
place
28:15
where
28:15
you
28:16
see
28:16
from
28:17
the.
28:17
You
28:18
know,
28:18
from
28:18
the
28:18
other
28:18
realization.
28:19
Before
28:20
I
28:20
got
28:20
into
28:21
the
28:21
beloved,
28:22
I
28:22
saw
28:23
the
28:24
universe
28:25
as
28:25
God's
28:26
mind.
28:27
When
28:27
I
28:28
realized
28:28
the
28:28
beloved,
28:29
the
28:30
beloved
28:30
manifested.
28:31
The
28:31
universe
28:32
became
28:33
God's
28:33
heart.
28:35
Beautiful,
28:36
but
28:36
imbued
28:37
with
28:37
love.
28:37
Thank
28:38
goodness.
28:39
And,
28:40
and
28:40
I
28:40
have
28:41
one
28:41
short
28:41
quote
28:42
from
28:42
here.
28:43
Page
28:43
235.
28:44
If
28:44
you
28:44
guys
28:44
are
28:44
taking
28:44
notes
28:45
out
28:45
there.
28:45
We
28:46
can't
28:46
completely
28:47
get
28:47
rid
28:47
of
28:47
the
28:47
mind
28:48
because
28:49
it
28:49
is
28:49
intrinsic
28:50
to
28:50
the
28:50
operation
28:51
of
28:51
our
28:52
soul's
28:52
consciousness.
28:54
Yeah,
28:55
so
28:55
what
28:55
does
28:55
that
28:56
mean
28:56
exactly?
28:58
It
28:58
reminds
28:58
me
28:59
a
28:59
little
28:59
bit
28:59
of
28:59
Krishnamurti.
29:01
If
29:01
you
29:02
read
29:03
or
29:03
studied,
29:03
Krishnamurti
29:04
listened
29:04
to
29:05
him.
29:05
He's
29:05
always
29:06
talking
29:06
about
29:07
being
29:07
free
29:08
from
29:08
the
29:08
mind,
29:09
you
29:09
know,
29:09
get
29:09
rid
29:09
of
29:09
the
29:10
mind.
29:10
Just
29:10
being
29:11
silenced,
29:12
no
29:12
thought,
29:12
nothing.
29:13
And
29:13
he
29:13
talks
29:14
about,
29:15
you
29:15
know,
29:15
being
29:15
in
29:16
condition.
29:17
There's
29:17
no
29:18
mind
29:18
at
29:18
all.
29:19
Right.
29:20
First
29:20
teaching
29:21
all
29:22
about
29:22
that.
29:22
I
29:22
was,
29:23
you
29:23
know,
29:24
letting
29:24
go
29:24
of
29:24
the
29:25
mind,
29:26
not
29:26
how
29:26
to
29:26
do
29:27
the
29:27
mind.
29:27
And.
29:28
And
29:29
his
29:29
own
29:29
experience
29:30
is
29:30
complete
29:31
silence
29:32
and
29:32
stillness
29:32
for
29:33
long
29:34
periods
29:34
of
29:34
time.
29:35
But
29:36
when
29:36
he
29:36
talks
29:38
his
29:38
own
29:39
mind,
29:40
he's
29:40
very
29:41
clear
29:42
and
29:42
discriminating.
29:43
He
29:43
uses
29:44
words
29:44
and
29:44
all
29:44
that.
29:45
So
29:46
he
29:46
can't
29:46
get
29:46
rid
29:47
of
29:47
the
29:47
mind,
29:48
even
29:48
though
29:49
he's
29:49
talking
29:49
about
29:50
no
29:50
mind.
29:51
But
29:51
to
29:51
even
29:52
say
29:52
anything
29:52
about
29:52
it,
29:53
its
29:53
mind
29:54
is
29:54
being
29:54
used.
29:55
You
29:55
have
29:55
to
29:55
use
29:55
concepts,
29:57
you
29:57
have
29:57
to
29:57
use
29:57
words.
30:00
And
30:01
Krishnamurti
30:01
is
30:02
a
30:02
good
30:02
paradox
30:03
that
30:03
way.
30:04
He's
30:04
full
30:04
of
30:05
contradiction.
30:05
The
30:06
way
30:06
I
30:06
understand
30:06
him,
30:07
he
30:07
was
30:07
great.
30:08
And
30:08
his
30:08
kind
30:09
of
30:09
experience
30:09
is
30:09
wonderful.
30:11
At
30:11
the
30:11
same
30:11
time,
30:12
his
30:12
teaching
30:13
was
30:13
a
30:13
little
30:13
bit
30:14
sort
30:14
of
30:15
not
30:15
complete.
30:16
You
30:16
know,
30:17
he
30:17
talk
30:17
about
30:18
no
30:18
mind,
30:18
but
30:18
he's
30:18
using
30:19
mind
30:20
instead
30:20
of
30:20
saying,
30:21
well,
30:21
mind
30:21
me
30:22
is
30:22
useful.
30:23
It's
30:23
necessary.
30:25
However,
30:25
the
30:26
error
30:26
state
30:26
has
30:27
no
30:27
mind
30:27
in
30:27
it.
30:28
Lamid,
30:29
you
30:29
give
30:30
a
30:30
brief
30:30
summary,
30:31
which
30:31
you
30:31
expand
30:32
on
30:33
the
30:34
challenge
30:35
of
30:35
distinguishing
30:36
whether
30:37
our
30:37
mind
30:38
is
30:39
obscuring
30:40
or
30:40
complementing
30:41
the
30:41
heart.
30:42
And
30:43
the
30:43
key
30:44
criterion
30:45
you
30:45
give,
30:45
as
30:46
I
30:46
recall,
30:46
is
30:47
that
30:48
if
30:50
our
30:50
direct
30:51
experience
30:52
is
30:53
significantly
30:54
overlaid
30:55
by
30:55
concepts
30:56
and
30:56
associations,
30:58
then
30:58
the
30:58
mind
30:58
is
30:59
obscuring.
31:00
But
31:02
if
31:02
we
31:03
are
31:03
more
31:03
in
31:03
direct
31:04
contact
31:05
with
31:05
our
31:06
immediate
31:06
experience,
31:07
then
31:08
there
31:08
can
31:08
still
31:08
be
31:08
discernment
31:10
which
31:10
can
31:10
guide
31:11
our
31:11
inquiry,
31:12
but
31:13
in
31:13
a
31:13
way
31:14
in
31:14
which
31:14
the
31:14
mind
31:15
serves
31:16
the
31:16
heart
31:17
and
31:17
its
31:17
realization.
31:18
Yeah,
31:19
very,
31:19
very
31:20
good
31:20
point.
31:21
Rather,
31:22
this
31:22
remind
31:22
me
31:23
of
31:24
the
31:24
Tibetan
31:25
Buddhas.
31:25
One
31:26
of
31:26
the
31:26
main
31:26
bodhisattvs
31:27
for
31:27
Manjushti
31:29
was
31:29
the
31:29
sword
31:29
of
31:30
discernment,
31:31
right?
31:33
And
31:34
Manjushri
31:35
is
31:35
basically
31:36
embodiment
31:37
of
31:37
the
31:37
real
31:37
mind,
31:37
true
31:38
mind,
31:39
but
31:39
it
31:39
is
31:40
expressing
31:40
emptiness.
31:41
Because
31:42
Buddhism
31:42
is
31:43
all
31:43
about
31:43
emptiness,
31:43
about
31:44
nothing
31:44
there,
31:45
about
31:45
non
31:46
being.
31:46
But
31:46
this
31:46
non
31:47
being
31:47
wields
31:48
the
31:48
source
31:48
of
31:49
the
31:49
sword
31:50
of
31:51
discriminating
31:51
wisdom.
31:53
So
31:54
there
31:54
is
31:54
a
31:55
real
31:55
mind
31:55
in
31:56
the
31:56
sense?
31:56
Well,
31:56
I
31:57
mean,
31:57
mind
31:58
can
31:58
be
31:58
seen
31:59
as
31:59
conditioned,
32:00
habitual
32:01
or
32:01
liberated.
32:03
Conditioned
32:03
and
32:03
habitual.
32:04
It
32:04
is
32:04
what
32:05
most
32:05
people
32:05
call
32:05
mind,
32:06
thinking
32:07
and
32:07
using
32:08
concepts
32:08
and
32:09
memories
32:09
and
32:09
belief
32:10
and
32:10
ideas
32:11
and,
32:12
you
32:12
know,
32:13
and
32:13
that
32:14
the
32:14
usual
32:14
mind,
32:15
useful
32:16
for
32:16
doing
32:17
good
32:17
taxes
32:17
and
32:18
driving,
32:19
stuff
32:19
like
32:19
that,
32:20
you
32:20
know.
32:20
However,
32:21
it
32:21
is
32:21
not
32:21
useful
32:22
in
32:22
terms
32:22
going
32:23
deeper
32:23
into
32:24
yourself.
32:25
You
32:25
need
32:26
to
32:26
be
32:27
liberated
32:28
from
32:28
that
32:28
mind.
32:28
Because
32:29
like
32:30
Krishnamun,
32:30
others
32:31
say
32:31
the
32:31
mind
32:31
is
32:31
a
32:31
problem.
32:32
It's
32:32
not
32:32
mind
32:32
that's
32:33
the
32:33
issue
32:33
that's
32:34
in
32:34
the
32:34
way.
32:35
However,
32:35
that
32:36
doesn't
32:36
mean
32:36
there's
32:36
no
32:37
other
32:37
mind.
32:37
The
32:38
deeper
32:38
mind
32:39
is
32:39
a
32:40
mind
32:40
of
32:40
illuminated
32:41
mind.
32:42
That's
32:42
right,
32:43
yeah.
32:46
When
32:46
the
32:46
mind
32:47
liberates
32:48
from
32:48
its
32:48
conditioning
32:49
and
32:49
its
32:49
belief
32:50
and
32:50
works
32:51
from
32:52
its
32:52
own
32:53
intrinsic
32:53
truth,
32:55
it
32:55
is
32:55
illuminating,
32:57
clarifying,
32:59
and
32:59
cut
33:00
through.
33:01
It's
33:02
not
33:02
what
33:02
you
33:02
use
33:02
to
33:02
cut
33:03
through
33:03
illusion.
33:04
So
33:04
that's
33:04
why
33:05
I
33:05
say,
33:05
like
33:05
Krishnamurti
33:06
had
33:06
a
33:06
very
33:06
clear,
33:07
crisp
33:07
mind,
33:09
you
33:09
know,
33:10
although
33:10
he
33:10
was
33:11
against
33:11
mind.
33:13
And
33:13
of
33:13
course,
33:13
Ventushri
33:14
is
33:14
the
33:15
greatest
33:15
example
33:16
in
33:16
the
33:17
Buddhist
33:18
literature
33:19
about
33:21
the
33:21
necessity.
33:22
You
33:22
see,
33:22
the
33:23
Tibetan
33:23
tradition
33:24
or
33:24
the
33:24
Vajraya
33:25
tradition,
33:26
they
33:26
have
33:26
the
33:26
three
33:27
major
33:27
Bodhisattvas,
33:29
Avalakachvara,
33:31
Manjushri
33:32
and
33:32
Vajrapani
33:35
is
33:35
the
33:35
goddess
33:36
of
33:36
the
33:37
heart
33:37
of
33:38
compassion,
33:39
goodness
33:40
and
33:40
kindness,
33:41
which
33:41
is
33:42
needed
33:42
for
33:43
the
33:43
practice.
33:43
Vajrapani
33:45
in
33:46
Bodhisattva
33:47
of
33:48
strength
33:49
and
33:49
power
33:50
and
33:50
capacity
33:51
to
33:52
deal
33:52
with
33:53
the
33:53
difficulties.
33:54
And
33:54
usually
33:55
Bodhisattva
33:56
on
33:56
the
33:56
mind,
33:57
the
33:57
one
33:58
with
33:58
the
33:58
sword
33:59
like
33:59
clarity
34:00
and
34:01
crispness.
34:02
So
34:02
there
34:02
is
34:03
a
34:03
real
34:03
mind
34:04
that
34:04
can
34:04
emerge,
34:05
but
34:05
it
34:06
emerges
34:06
out
34:07
of
34:07
the
34:07
emptiness
34:07
of
34:08
the
34:08
beloved.
34:09
It
34:09
is
34:09
exterior
34:11
to
34:11
the
34:11
inner
34:12
beloved.
34:13
Exterior.
34:14
And
34:14
it
34:14
is
34:15
a
34:15
capacity
34:16
the
34:16
inner
34:17
beloved
34:17
makes
34:17
possible.
34:19
However,
34:20
it
34:20
makes
34:20
possible
34:21
only
34:21
through
34:22
the
34:22
human
34:23
soul.
34:25
There
34:25
is
34:25
no
34:26
cutting
34:27
through
34:27
mind
34:27
without
34:28
an
34:28
individual
34:29
who's
34:29
going
34:29
to
34:29
do
34:29
it.
34:32
God
34:33
doesn't
34:33
cut
34:33
through
34:33
anything.
34:36
Probably
34:37
doesn't
34:37
need
34:37
to.
34:38
Yeah.
34:38
And
34:39
you're
34:39
in
34:39
your
34:39
work,
34:39
though,
34:39
you
34:40
constantly
34:40
come
34:40
back
34:40
to
34:41
that
34:41
individual
34:42
soul,
34:43
you
34:43
know,
34:43
you
34:43
can
34:43
go
34:43
through.
34:44
I
34:44
mean,
34:44
I
34:44
see
34:44
this
34:45
whole
34:45
journey
34:46
as
34:46
stages
34:47
that
34:47
you
34:47
go
34:47
through.
34:48
You
34:48
know,
34:48
I
34:49
mean,
34:49
Jewishry,
34:49
the.
34:50
What
34:50
is
34:50
adverb
34:51
of
34:51
the
34:51
skin
34:52
is
34:52
individual.
34:53
I
34:53
remember
34:54
having
34:54
a
34:54
visionary
34:55
encounter,
34:55
actually
34:56
with
34:56
a
34:57
man.
34:57
Usually
34:58
the
34:58
Tibetan,
34:59
when
34:59
you
34:59
read
35:00
their
35:00
biography,
35:01
they're
35:01
mostly
35:01
visionary
35:02
encounters
35:03
with
35:03
deities
35:04
and
35:04
Barza
35:05
who
35:05
give
35:05
them
35:05
teaching.
35:06
One
35:07
time
35:07
I
35:07
was
35:07
reading
35:08
a
35:08
book
35:09
by
35:10
Dujim
35:10
Lingpa,
35:11
which
35:12
is
35:12
the
35:12
first
35:12
Ducham,
35:13
and
35:14
he
35:14
is
35:15
writing.
35:15
Each
35:15
chapter
35:16
is
35:16
his
35:16
visionary
35:17
encounter
35:17
with
35:18
one
35:18
of
35:18
those
35:18
poetry.
35:20
Fifteen
35:21
of
35:21
them
35:21
and
35:22
usually,
35:23
you
35:23
know,
35:23
and
35:24
many
35:25
Takinis
35:26
and
35:27
all.
35:27
And
35:27
I
35:28
noticed
35:28
when
35:28
I
35:28
was
35:28
reading
35:29
each,
35:29
because
35:30
in
35:30
each
35:30
one
35:30
of
35:30
them
35:30
he
35:31
described
35:31
a
35:32
little
35:32
bit
35:32
about
35:32
his
35:32
encounter
35:33
and
35:33
then
35:33
the
35:34
message
35:34
he
35:34
got.
35:35
When
35:35
I
35:35
was
35:35
reading
35:35
the
35:36
message,
35:36
I
35:36
realized
35:37
I
35:37
was
35:37
getting
35:37
it
35:38
myself
35:38
directly
35:39
from
35:40
the
35:40
one
35:40
who
35:41
gave
35:41
it
35:41
to
35:41
him.
35:42
For
35:42
some
35:42
reason,
35:43
he
35:43
has
35:43
a
35:44
strong
35:45
transmission
35:45
in
35:45
that
35:46
book.
35:47
I
35:47
was
35:47
open
35:48
enough
35:48
when
35:48
I
35:48
was
35:48
reading
35:49
it
35:49
that
35:50
his
35:50
Vijay
35:51
encounter
35:51
became
35:52
my
35:52
Vijay
35:53
encounter
35:53
with
35:53
each
35:54
one
35:54
of
35:54
those.
35:55
And
35:55
so
35:56
when
35:56
the
35:56
Manjushri,
35:57
I
35:58
saw
35:59
this
35:59
Being
36:00
when
36:00
the
36:00
mind
36:00
is
36:01
more
36:01
dominant.
36:02
But
36:02
it's
36:03
all
36:03
brilliance,
36:04
all
36:04
clarity,
36:06
you
36:06
know,
36:07
expressing
36:08
this
36:08
vast
36:09
emptiness.
36:10
And
36:10
it
36:10
was
36:10
an
36:11
individual
36:11
mind.
36:13
Yeah,
36:13
you
36:13
were
36:13
just
36:14
questions
36:15
I
36:15
would
36:15
pop
36:15
in
36:16
my
36:16
mind
36:16
and
36:16
then
36:16
you
36:16
would
36:17
answer
36:17
them
36:17
in
36:18
the
36:18
next
36:18
sentence.
36:19
So
36:19
that
36:19
was
36:19
a
36:19
very
36:20
interesting,
36:20
interesting
36:21
experience.
36:21
So
36:22
thank
36:22
you
36:22
for
36:22
that.
36:23
Yeah.
36:24
Well,
36:24
good.
36:25
The
36:25
same
36:25
heart.
36:26
Then.
36:29
There
36:29
was
36:29
a
36:30
description
36:30
of
36:31
the
36:31
deepening
36:32
into
36:32
the
36:33
beloved
36:33
that
36:34
left
36:34
me
36:35
confused.
36:35
And
36:36
that
36:36
was.
36:36
You
36:36
pointed
36:37
out
36:37
in
36:37
your
36:37
discussion
36:38
of
36:38
the
36:38
skillful
36:39
use
36:39
of
36:40
the
36:40
intellect
36:40
that
36:41
it's
36:41
possible
36:42
to
36:43
retain
36:44
the
36:44
discernment
36:45
of
36:45
the
36:45
intellect
36:46
while
36:47
releasing
36:47
the
36:48
conceptual
36:49
imaginal,
36:50
et
36:50
cetera
36:51
overlays,
36:51
and
36:52
get
36:52
more
36:52
and
36:53
more
36:53
deeply
36:53
into
36:54
direct
36:55
experience.
36:56
Even
36:57
to
36:57
the
36:57
point,
36:57
as
36:58
you
36:58
said,
36:59
that
37:00
the
37:01
conceptual
37:01
overlays
37:02
disappear
37:02
to
37:03
the
37:03
point
37:03
of
37:03
a
37:03
sense
37:04
of
37:04
just
37:04
divine
37:05
darkness.
37:05
And
37:06
you
37:06
said
37:06
at
37:06
its
37:07
deepest,
37:07
there's
37:07
an
37:08
undifferentiated
37:09
field
37:09
of
37:10
sensation
37:11
and
37:11
the
37:11
mind
37:12
has
37:12
dissolved
37:13
into
37:13
the
37:13
heart.
37:14
And
37:14
then
37:14
you
37:14
say,
37:15
now
37:15
at
37:16
this
37:16
stage,
37:16
we
37:17
don't
37:17
know
37:17
particulars.
37:18
There's
37:19
just.
37:19
There's
37:19
knowing
37:20
itself,
37:21
but
37:21
we
37:21
know
37:22
that
37:22
we
37:23
are
37:23
knowing
37:23
the
37:23
beloved.
37:24
And
37:24
that
37:24
left
37:24
me
37:25
confused
37:25
because
37:26
it
37:26
feels
37:26
like
37:26
one
37:27
can
37:27
settle
37:28
into
37:28
those
37:29
kind
37:29
of
37:29
pre
37:30
conceptual,
37:31
direct
37:31
experience
37:32
states,
37:33
but
37:34
it
37:34
doesn't
37:35
necessarily
37:36
feel
37:36
like
37:36
the
37:37
beloved.
37:38
Well,
37:38
yeah,
37:38
I
37:39
mean,
37:39
you
37:39
know,
37:40
by
37:40
the
37:40
time
37:41
on
37:41
my
37:41
own
37:42
journey
37:43
I
37:43
got
37:43
to
37:44
the
37:44
experience,
37:45
the
37:45
Beloved,
37:46
I
37:46
have
37:46
already
37:47
learned
37:48
and
37:49
had
37:49
deep
37:50
realization
37:51
of
37:51
the
37:52
mystery
37:53
or
37:53
the
37:53
absolute
37:54
or
37:54
the
37:55
fundamental
37:56
truth
37:57
by
37:57
using
37:58
the
37:58
discriminating
37:59
mind
37:59
a
37:59
lot.
38:01
Because
38:01
of
38:01
that,
38:02
since
38:02
I
38:02
already
38:03
has
38:03
a
38:03
facility
38:04
where
38:04
my
38:05
mind
38:05
can
38:05
be
38:05
free
38:06
from
38:06
its
38:06
habitual
38:07
thing
38:07
and
38:08
can
38:08
operate
38:08
in
38:08
a
38:09
more
38:09
rather
38:10
illuminated
38:11
kind
38:11
of
38:12
discrimination
38:13
discernment
38:14
that
38:15
got
38:15
used
38:15
in
38:15
the
38:16
Way
38:16
of
38:16
the
38:16
Heart.
38:17
I
38:17
was
38:17
able
38:17
to
38:18
see
38:18
the
38:18
obstacles
38:19
on
38:19
the
38:19
Way
38:19
of
38:19
the
38:19
Heart.
38:20
I
38:20
mentioned
38:21
many
38:21
of
38:21
the
38:21
chapters
38:22
deal
38:22
with
38:22
the
38:22
obstacle
38:23
what
38:24
merges
38:24
as.
38:25
And
38:25
then
38:25
we
38:26
have
38:26
to
38:26
see
38:26
through
38:26
it.
38:27
And
38:27
so
38:28
that
38:28
was
38:28
very
38:28
helpful
38:29
for
38:29
me,
38:29
actually,
38:31
which
38:31
made
38:31
my
38:32
journey
38:33
beloved
38:34
be
38:34
like
38:34
a
38:34
year
38:35
or
38:35
two
38:35
instead
38:36
of
38:36
a
38:36
decade
38:36
or
38:36
two.
38:38
So
38:38
your
38:38
question
38:39
specifically
38:39
is
38:40
about.
38:41
Say
38:41
that
38:41
again?
38:42
Well,
38:43
I
38:43
wondered
38:43
if
38:44
all
38:45
experiences
38:46
of
38:46
that
38:46
kind
38:46
of
38:47
settling
38:48
and
38:48
dissolving
38:49
of
38:49
the
38:49
intellect
38:50
and
38:50
coming
38:50
into
38:51
direct
38:51
experience,
38:52
you
38:52
seem
38:52
to
38:52
imply
38:53
that
38:53
automatically
38:54
led
38:54
to
38:54
a
38:55
recognition
38:55
of
38:55
the
38:56
beloved
38:56
and
38:57
which
38:57
isn't
38:57
true
38:58
for
38:58
me,
38:58
but
38:58
certainly
38:59
may
38:59
be
38:59
true,
39:00
I
39:00
assume
39:01
is
39:01
true
39:01
for
39:01
you.
39:01
So
39:02
it
39:02
may
39:02
just
39:02
be
39:03
that
39:03
I
39:03
don't
39:04
have
39:04
the
39:04
depth.
39:04
Or
39:05
it
39:05
might
39:05
be
39:05
that
39:06
there
39:06
are
39:06
many
39:06
kinds
39:07
of
39:07
experience
39:08
in
39:08
which
39:08
one
39:09
settles
39:09
into
39:10
direct
39:10
experience
39:11
prior
39:12
to
39:12
conceptual
39:13
elaboration.
39:14
Yeah,
39:14
I
39:14
mean,
39:15
we're
39:15
talking
39:16
about
39:16
that
39:16
immediate
39:17
true
39:18
or
39:18
gnostic
39:19
knowing
39:20
discussed
39:21
before
39:22
and
39:22
our
39:23
talks,
39:24
which
39:24
is
39:24
that
39:25
there
39:25
are
39:25
two
39:26
kinds
39:26
of
39:26
knowing.
39:26
The
39:27
knowing
39:27
of
39:27
the
39:27
ordinary
39:28
mind
39:28
and
39:29
the
39:29
knowing
39:29
of
39:30
the
39:30
real
39:30
mind.
39:31
Knowing
39:31
the
39:31
real
39:32
mind
39:32
is
39:32
knowing
39:33
in
39:33
the
39:33
moment
39:33
what
39:34
is
39:34
known
39:35
and
39:35
which
39:35
is
39:35
a
39:36
knowing
39:36
that
39:36
emerges
39:37
from
39:37
the
39:37
experience
39:38
not
39:39
brought
39:39
in
39:39
from
39:40
history
39:40
and
39:40
learning.
39:41
So
39:42
when
39:42
you
39:43
experience
39:43
love,
39:44
you
39:44
know
39:44
it's
39:44
love,
39:45
not
39:45
because
39:45
you
39:45
remember
39:46
it's
39:46
love.
39:47
Right.
39:47
It
39:47
has
39:48
its
39:48
own
39:48
knowing
39:49
of
39:49
itself.
39:50
Same
39:50
thing
39:50
if
39:51
you
39:51
experience
39:51
compassion.
39:52
I
39:53
mean,
39:54
the
39:54
experience
39:54
of
39:55
compassion
39:55
comes
39:55
with
39:56
a
39:56
knowing
39:56
of
39:57
compassion.
39:57
You
39:57
know
39:58
it's
39:58
compassion.
39:58
And
39:59
you
39:59
know
39:59
it's
40:00
not
40:00
exactly
40:00
the
40:01
same
40:01
thing
40:01
as
40:01
peace,
40:03
although
40:03
the
40:03
peace
40:03
is
40:04
inherently
40:04
known,
40:06
not
40:06
through
40:07
memory
40:07
and
40:07
information.
40:10
So
40:10
there's.
40:11
That's
40:11
what
40:12
I
40:12
call
40:12
true
40:13
knowledge
40:13
or
40:14
true
40:14
mind
40:15
has
40:15
its
40:15
own
40:16
knowing.
40:16
So
40:17
knowing
40:18
in
40:18
some
40:18
sense
40:19
has
40:19
many
40:20
degrees.
40:20
I
40:20
mean,
40:21
if
40:21
you
40:21
look
40:22
at
40:23
them,
40:23
the
40:24
Greeks
40:24
rundown
40:25
of
40:27
the
40:28
higher
40:28
intellect
40:30
level
40:30
of
40:30
intellect,
40:31
Proclus
40:31
gives
40:32
about,
40:32
I
40:32
don't
40:33
know,
40:33
ten
40:34
levels
40:35
of.
40:36
Not
40:36
ten
40:36
or
40:36
a
40:37
hundred
40:37
levels
40:38
of
40:38
the
40:38
intellect
40:39
going
40:40
to
40:40
deeper
40:41
and
40:41
subtler,
40:41
higher,
40:42
until
40:42
it
40:43
is
40:43
the
40:43
divine
40:44
intellectual.
40:45
And
40:45
I
40:45
think
40:45
it's
40:45
a
40:45
great
40:46
formulation
40:47
that
40:47
is
40:47
very.
40:49
Be
40:49
very
40:49
useful
40:50
for
40:50
people
40:50
these
40:51
days
40:52
because
40:52
most
40:53
people
40:53
are
40:55
assume
40:55
intellect
40:56
is
40:56
what
40:57
a
40:57
scientist
40:57
uses.
40:58
And
40:58
that's
40:58
all.
40:59
Yes,
40:59
yes.
41:00
There's
41:00
no,
41:01
almost
41:01
no
41:01
appreciation
41:02
in
41:02
the
41:02
culture
41:03
of
41:03
what
41:04
you're
41:04
calling
41:04
higher
41:05
intellect.
41:05
Yeah,
41:06
yeah.
41:06
Direct
41:07
gnosis,
41:07
or
41:08
on
41:08
gnosis
41:09
as
41:09
you.
41:09
You've
41:10
called
41:10
it.
41:11
There
41:11
is
41:11
a
41:11
knowingness
41:12
that
41:12
emerges
41:13
from
41:14
being
41:14
itself
41:15
or
41:15
he.
41:15
From
41:16
the
41:16
way
41:16
of
41:16
the
41:16
heart.
41:16
From
41:17
the
41:17
heart
41:17
itself.
41:18
Yeah.
41:19
And
41:19
you
41:19
pointed
41:20
out
41:20
that
41:21
quote
41:21
you
41:21
the
41:22
more
41:22
we
41:22
know
41:22
it,
41:23
the
41:23
more
41:23
it
41:23
reveals
41:24
itself
41:24
as
41:25
mystery.
41:26
Yes.
41:26
That
41:26
is
41:27
paradox
41:28
too.
41:29
Oh,
41:30
it
41:30
is
41:30
indeed.
41:30
Yeah.
41:31
The
41:32
more
41:32
we
41:32
know
41:32
it,
41:33
the
41:33
more
41:33
we
41:33
don't
41:34
know
41:34
it.
41:35
In
41:35
fact,
41:35
that
41:36
is
41:36
the
41:36
true
41:37
path.
41:37
The
41:38
more
41:38
we
41:38
know,
41:38
the
41:39
more
41:39
we
41:39
recognize
41:40
what
41:40
we
41:41
know.
41:41
We
41:42
barely
41:43
touching.
41:43
Yeah.
41:44
Something
41:44
very
41:45
beautiful
41:45
about
41:46
that.
41:46
Yeah.
41:46
And
41:47
keeps
41:48
life
41:48
like
41:48
an
41:49
adventure,
41:49
an
41:50
excitement,
41:50
and
41:51
there's
41:52
no
41:52
end
41:52
to
41:52
it.
41:53
It's
41:53
not
41:54
like
41:54
I'm
41:55
gonna
41:55
get
41:55
to
41:55
the
41:55
end
41:56
and
41:56
then
41:56
sit
41:57
and
41:57
rest
41:57
and
41:58
that's
41:58
it.
41:59
No,
42:00
you
42:00
know,
42:01
the
42:01
discoveries
42:02
continue.
42:04
Houston
42:04
Smith
42:05
had
42:05
a
42:05
wonderful
42:06
image
42:06
of
42:06
that.
42:07
He
42:07
talked
42:07
about
42:08
knowledge
42:09
as
42:09
being
42:09
this
42:09
island.
42:10
And
42:11
the
42:11
more
42:11
we
42:11
know,
42:11
the
42:12
more
42:12
the
42:12
island
42:12
expands.
42:14
But
42:14
it's
42:15
surrounded
42:16
by
42:16
mystery.
42:16
And
42:16
the
42:17
shoreline
42:17
between
42:18
knowledge
42:19
and
42:19
mystery
42:20
continuously
42:20
expands.
42:22
Yeah.
42:22
Very
42:23
nice.
42:23
Yeah.
42:24
You
42:24
say
42:24
that
42:25
the
42:25
true
42:25
beloved
42:26
is
42:26
beyond
42:26
being
42:27
and
42:27
non
42:27
being.
42:28
And
42:28
the
42:28
mind
42:29
doesn't
42:29
have
42:29
a
42:29
clue
42:30
what
42:30
it's
42:31
talking
42:31
about.
42:32
The
42:33
mind.
42:33
Yeah.
42:34
The
42:34
mind
42:34
doesn't
42:35
know
42:36
the
42:36
Usual
42:37
ordinary
42:38
mind,
42:38
for
42:38
instance,
42:39
can
42:39
only
42:40
use
42:40
concepts
42:41
that
42:41
are
42:42
made
42:42
of
42:42
pairs
42:43
of
42:43
dichotomies
42:44
like
42:45
good
42:46
and
42:46
bad.
42:46
And
42:47
so
42:47
a
42:47
deeper
42:48
one
42:48
of
42:48
dichotomy
42:48
is
42:49
being
42:49
and
42:49
non
42:49
being.
42:51
Being
42:51
and
42:51
non
42:52
being
42:52
are
42:53
their
42:54
conceptual
42:55
dichotomy.
42:56
Right.
42:57
However,
42:57
even
42:58
in
42:59
the
42:59
true
42:59
mind,
43:00
that
43:01
conceptual
43:01
dichotomy
43:02
continues.
43:03
We
43:03
can
43:03
experience
43:03
being
43:04
pure
43:04
being.
43:05
We
43:06
could
43:06
experience
43:06
the
43:06
pure
43:07
non
43:07
being,
43:08
the
43:08
beloved.
43:09
It
43:09
goes
43:09
beyond
43:10
that,
43:10
deletes
43:11
both.
43:12
I
43:12
mean,
43:13
some
43:13
of
43:13
the
43:14
non
43:14
devo
43:15
teachings
43:15
they
43:15
say,
43:15
well,
43:16
as
43:16
the
43:16
union
43:17
of
43:17
being
43:17
and
43:17
non
43:17
being.
43:18
But
43:18
really
43:19
from
43:19
the
43:20
position
43:20
of
43:20
the
43:20
beloved,
43:20
it's
43:21
like
43:21
the
43:21
owner
43:22
who
43:22
needs
43:22
all
43:23
those
43:23
words
43:24
and
43:24
ideas.
43:25
Just
43:25
a
43:26
pure
43:26
mystery.
43:27
Don't
43:28
try
43:28
to
43:28
know
43:28
me,
43:29
just
43:30
enjoy
43:30
me.
43:31
And
43:31
you
43:32
say
43:32
that
43:32
at
43:32
some
43:32
point
43:33
even
43:33
the
43:34
dichotomy
43:35
or
43:35
the
43:35
relationship
43:36
between
43:36
lover
43:37
and
43:37
inner
43:37
beloved
43:38
goes
43:38
away.
43:39
And
43:39
there's
43:40
just
43:40
love.
43:41
Of
43:41
course,
43:42
that
43:42
was
43:42
one
43:42
of
43:43
the
43:44
lost
43:45
barriers
43:46
in
43:46
the
43:46
path
43:46
of
43:47
love.
43:47
Is
43:48
that
43:48
the
43:48
lover
43:49
dissolves.
43:51
And
43:51
at
43:51
some
43:51
point,
43:52
you
43:52
know,
43:52
as
43:53
I
43:53
mentioned
43:53
one
43:53
of
43:54
the
43:54
chapters,
43:54
the
43:55
lover
43:55
at
43:55
some
43:55
point.
43:56
I
43:56
mean,
43:56
in
43:56
fact,
43:56
Capi
43:57
Ruby
43:58
many
43:58
that
43:58
the
43:58
lover
43:59
says
43:59
I
43:59
don't
44:00
want
44:00
to
44:00
be,
44:00
I
44:01
just
44:01
want
44:01
you
44:01
to
44:01
be.
44:03
On
44:03
fear
44:04
unto
44:04
you.
44:04
So
44:05
only
44:05
you
44:06
are.
44:06
I
44:07
mean,
44:07
that's
44:08
topic
44:08
of
44:08
mystical
44:09
love
44:09
and
44:10
mystical
44:10
poets
44:11
for
44:11
ages,
44:12
you
44:12
know,
44:13
not
44:13
just
44:13
Rumi
44:14
Kabir.
44:15
I
44:15
just
44:15
happen
44:16
to
44:16
know
44:16
Rumi
44:17
could
44:17
be
44:17
a
44:17
few
44:17
people.
44:18
I'm
44:18
sure
44:18
there
44:18
are
44:18
many
44:19
others
44:19
who
44:20
did
44:20
the
44:20
same
44:20
thing.
44:22
And
44:22
Hamid,
44:23
you
44:23
were
44:24
talking
44:24
about
44:24
the
44:24
dissolution
44:25
of
44:25
dichotomies.
44:26
And
44:27
there's
44:27
another
44:27
one
44:28
you
44:28
point
44:28
to
44:28
in
44:29
your
44:29
chapter,
44:30
which
44:30
is
44:30
titled
44:31
the
44:31
Wholeness,
44:32
where
44:32
you
44:32
point
44:33
out
44:33
that
44:33
we
44:33
come
44:34
to
44:34
the
44:34
recognition
44:35
that
44:35
in
44:36
order
44:36
to
44:37
know
44:38
and
44:38
be
44:39
one
44:39
with
44:39
the
44:39
beloved.
44:40
We
44:40
have
44:40
to
44:40
let
44:41
go
44:41
all
44:41
our
44:41
other
44:42
attachments,
44:42
all
44:43
other
44:43
cravings,
44:44
loves.
44:44
But
44:45
there's
44:45
the
44:45
attachment
44:46
or
44:47
love
44:47
for
44:47
the
44:47
world
44:48
is
44:49
really
44:49
deep
44:50
and
44:51
very
44:51
hard
44:52
to
44:52
relinquish.
44:53
And
44:53
that
44:54
for
44:54
a
44:54
long
44:55
time
44:55
it
44:55
can
44:55
feel
44:56
like
44:56
a
44:56
conflict.
44:57
Yes.
44:58
And
44:58
then
44:58
you
44:58
give
44:58
a
44:59
beautiful
45:00
general
45:01
principle
45:02
saying,
45:02
and
45:02
I'll
45:03
quote
45:03
as
45:04
usual,
45:04
the
45:05
answer
45:05
is
45:05
to
45:06
stay
45:06
with
45:06
the
45:06
conflict
45:07
and
45:08
not
45:08
react
45:08
by
45:09
trying
45:09
to
45:09
change
45:09
or
45:10
eliminate
45:11
any
45:11
part
45:11
of
45:11
it.
45:12
Yeah,
45:12
I
45:12
mean,
45:13
as
45:13
you
45:14
know,
45:14
remember
45:15
the
45:16
path
45:16
of
45:16
love
45:17
is
45:17
to
45:18
divorce
45:19
ourselves
45:20
from
45:20
all
45:21
outer
45:22
lovers
45:23
or
45:23
beloved
45:24
divorce
45:24
house
45:25
of
45:25
all
45:25
relationships.
45:26
As
45:27
I
45:27
say
45:27
in
45:27
my
45:27
poem.
45:28
Because
45:29
those
45:29
at
45:30
the
45:30
beginning,
45:30
since
45:31
we
45:31
don't
45:31
know
45:31
the
45:31
beloved
45:33
there,
45:34
you
45:34
know,
45:34
we
45:34
take
45:34
them
45:35
to
45:35
be
45:35
the
45:35
beloved
45:36
and
45:37
then
45:37
they
45:37
become.
45:38
That's
45:38
what
45:39
most
45:39
people
45:39
do.
45:39
Actually,
45:40
you
45:40
know,
45:41
most
45:41
people
45:41
have
45:41
their
45:42
many
45:43
beloved.
45:44
Their
45:44
life
45:45
is
45:45
full
45:45
of
45:45
beloveds.
45:46
You
45:46
Know,
45:47
between
45:47
people
45:47
and
45:48
cars
45:48
and
45:48
cell
45:49
phones
45:49
and
45:50
whatever
45:50
you
45:50
love
45:51
is
45:51
your
45:51
beloved,
45:51
you
45:52
know?
45:52
And
45:52
then
45:53
the
45:53
movement
45:54
of
45:54
the
45:54
beloved,
45:54
that
45:55
all
45:55
those
45:55
are
45:56
dissolved.
45:56
And
45:57
until
45:58
the
45:58
heart
45:58
is
45:59
one
45:59
pointed
45:59
toward
46:00
just
46:00
the
46:00
beloved,
46:01
all
46:01
of
46:01
those
46:01
are
46:02
gone.
46:02
God
46:03
should
46:03
be
46:03
gone.
46:03
And
46:04
they
46:04
dissolve
46:05
little
46:05
by
46:05
little,
46:06
in
46:06
fact,
46:07
just
46:07
as
46:07
the
46:08
mind
46:08
dissolves.
46:10
But
46:10
then
46:11
as
46:11
we.
46:12
As
46:12
the
46:13
beloved
46:13
shows
46:14
up
46:14
and
46:14
takes
46:15
its
46:15
place
46:15
and
46:16
shows
46:16
itself
46:16
to
46:17
be
46:17
the
46:17
center
46:17
of
46:17
all
46:18
things,
46:18
the
46:19
universe
46:19
appears
46:20
again
46:21
as
46:21
its
46:22
luminosity
46:23
and
46:25
recognition.
46:26
And
46:26
that
46:27
the
46:27
universe
46:27
appears
46:28
as
46:28
luminosity,
46:29
full
46:29
of
46:30
love.
46:30
And
46:31
recognize
46:31
that
46:32
everything
46:32
we
46:32
loved
46:33
before
46:33
we
46:33
were
46:34
loving
46:34
the
46:34
beloved,
46:34
we
46:35
just
46:35
didn't
46:35
know
46:35
it.
46:36
We
46:36
saw
46:37
some
46:37
of
46:38
this
46:38
expression
46:39
and
46:39
we
46:40
loved
46:41
that
46:41
we
46:41
were
46:42
really
46:42
loving
46:42
the
46:42
beloved,
46:43
but
46:44
we
46:44
were
46:44
thinking
46:44
we're
46:45
loving
46:45
that
46:45
form.
46:46
But
46:47
that
46:47
form
46:47
is
46:47
nothing
46:48
but
46:48
the
46:48
luminosity
46:49
of
46:49
the
46:49
beloved,
46:50
the
46:50
formation
46:51
out
46:51
of
46:52
the
46:52
beloved.
46:53
And
46:53
that's
46:54
what
46:54
brings
46:55
the.
46:55
That's
46:55
the
46:55
harmony
46:56
that
46:57
comes
46:57
out
46:57
that,
46:58
oh,
46:58
bring
46:58
it
46:59
back.
46:59
The
46:59
fact
46:59
that
47:00
you
47:00
can
47:01
be
47:03
the
47:03
lap
47:03
of
47:03
the
47:04
beloved
47:04
and
47:04
still
47:05
enjoy
47:05
life,
47:06
love
47:06
everything.
47:07
And
47:08
from
47:08
that
47:08
place
47:08
of
47:09
the
47:09
beloved,
47:10
everything
47:10
we
47:11
love
47:11
is
47:11
an
47:12
expression
47:12
of
47:12
the
47:12
beloved.
47:13
That's
47:13
it.
47:14
And
47:14
the
47:14
mystics
47:15
say,
47:15
wherever
47:16
you
47:16
go,
47:17
you
47:17
see
47:17
me.
47:18
Right.
47:19
Whatever.
47:20
That's
47:20
my
47:20
face.
47:21
Jesus
47:21
said
47:21
in
47:22
the
47:22
Gospel
47:22
of
47:22
Thomas,
47:22
which
47:23
is
47:23
probably
47:23
the
47:23
most
47:23
spiritual
47:24
of
47:24
all
47:24
this,
47:24
the
47:25
one
47:25
they
47:25
found
47:25
in
47:25
1948,
47:27
he
47:27
says,
47:27
if
47:27
you
47:27
split
47:28
a
47:28
log,
47:28
there
47:29
I
47:29
am.
47:29
If
47:30
you
47:30
lift
47:30
up
47:30
a
47:30
rock,
47:31
you'll
47:31
find
47:32
me.
47:33
So
47:33
I
47:33
think
47:33
it's
47:34
expressing
47:34
exactly
47:35
what
47:35
you're
47:35
talking
47:35
about
47:35
there.
47:36
It
47:36
becomes
47:37
everything
47:37
and
47:38
everywhere.
47:39
Mind,
47:39
perceptions,
47:40
a
47:41
rock,
47:42
galaxy.
47:43
It's
47:43
all
47:43
that.
47:44
That's
47:44
what
47:44
I
47:45
call
47:45
wholeness
47:45
in
47:46
this
47:46
chapter,
47:47
of
47:47
course,
47:48
from
47:48
the
47:48
perspective
47:49
of
47:49
non
47:50
teaching.
47:50
It's
47:50
called
47:51
the
47:51
non
47:51
dual
47:51
world.
47:52
I
47:52
mean,
47:53
there's
47:53
no
47:53
separation
47:54
between
47:54
one
47:55
thing
47:55
and
47:55
another.
47:56
No
47:56
separation
47:57
between
47:57
the
47:58
fundamental
47:58
truth
47:59
and
47:59
the
47:59
outer
48:00
expressions.
48:01
Yeah.
48:01
And
48:01
you
48:01
give
48:02
a
48:02
beautiful
48:03
response
48:04
to
48:04
this
48:04
apparent
48:05
conflict
48:06
between
48:06
our
48:07
deeply
48:08
ingrained
48:08
love
48:09
for
48:09
the
48:09
world
48:09
and
48:10
our
48:10
growing
48:10
love
48:11
of
48:11
the
48:11
beloved,
48:12
and
48:13
saying
48:13
that
48:14
part
48:14
of
48:14
the
48:14
answer
48:15
is
48:15
to
48:15
deepen
48:16
the
48:16
love
48:16
for
48:16
both
48:17
until
48:17
we
48:17
eventually
48:18
recognize
48:19
that.
48:19
Quotes.
48:20
The
48:20
world
48:20
is
48:21
simply
48:22
the
48:22
luminosity
48:23
of
48:23
the
48:23
beloved.
48:23
That's
48:24
such
48:24
a
48:25
beautiful
48:25
statement.
48:27
The
48:28
world
48:28
is.
48:28
That's
48:29
what
48:29
we
48:29
see.
48:31
If
48:31
we
48:31
see
48:31
it
48:31
from
48:32
the
48:32
perspective
48:32
beloved,
48:33
it's
48:33
all
48:34
brilliance
48:35
and
48:35
luminosity
48:36
and
48:36
unloved.
48:37
If
48:37
we
48:38
look
48:38
at
48:38
it
48:38
from
48:38
the
48:38
side
48:39
of
48:39
the
48:39
world,
48:40
we
48:40
see
48:41
it
48:41
as
48:41
all
48:41
the
48:42
objects
48:42
and
48:43
things
48:43
we
48:43
see
48:43
in
48:43
the
48:44
world.
48:45
But
48:45
it
48:45
is
48:45
really
48:46
a
48:46
very
48:46
deep
48:47
truth
48:48
that
48:48
we
48:48
see
48:49
in
48:49
our
48:49
culture.
48:50
There's
48:50
A
48:51
lot
48:51
of
48:51
struggle
48:52
going
48:52
on
48:52
these
48:53
days.
48:53
Intellectuals
48:54
and
48:54
scientific
48:55
circles
48:55
trying
48:55
to
48:56
understand
48:56
consciousness
48:57
and
48:58
its
48:58
mind
48:59
neuro.
49:01
While
49:01
when
49:02
you
49:02
get
49:02
to
49:02
this
49:02
level,
49:03
it's
49:03
like,
49:04
yeah,
49:05
consciousness
49:06
can't
49:06
understand
49:06
consciousness
49:07
that
49:07
way.
49:08
Everything
49:08
is
49:08
consciousness,
49:10
everything
49:10
is
49:10
awareness,
49:11
you
49:11
know?
49:12
Yes.
49:12
That's
49:12
not
49:13
exactly
49:13
a
49:13
standard
49:14
scientific
49:15
recognition.
49:16
You're
49:17
struggling
49:17
with
49:17
it,
49:18
which
49:18
is
49:18
good.
49:19
Who
49:19
knows
49:19
whether
49:20
they'll
49:20
arrive
49:20
to
49:20
something
49:21
like
49:21
that?
49:22
But
49:22
that,
49:23
you
49:23
know,
49:24
who
49:24
knows?
49:24
Maybe
49:25
there
49:25
will
49:25
be
49:25
at
49:25
some
49:26
point
49:26
a
49:26
quantum
49:27
physicist
49:27
who
49:28
has
49:28
experience
49:28
with
49:29
the
49:29
beloved.
49:30
They
49:31
have
49:31
to
49:31
formulate
49:31
it
49:32
in
49:32
quantum
49:33
equations.
49:34
That'll
49:34
be
49:35
interesting.
49:36
I
49:36
tried
49:36
one
49:36
time
49:37
to
49:37
do
49:37
it.
49:37
Yeah,
49:37
you
49:37
worked
49:38
on
49:38
that.
49:38
You
49:38
told
49:39
us
49:39
earlier.
49:40
I
49:40
don't
49:41
know
49:41
why.
49:41
It's
49:41
mathematics.
49:43
Apparently,
49:44
Mathematic
49:45
developed
49:45
a
49:45
lot
49:46
these
49:46
days.
49:47
I
49:47
don't
49:47
know,
49:47
but
49:48
I
49:48
don't
49:48
know
49:48
if
49:48
you
49:49
could
49:49
do
49:49
it
49:49
mathematically,
49:50
you
49:50
know.
49:50
Well,
49:51
mathematics
49:51
is
49:51
the
49:52
beloved
49:53
also.
49:53
Yeah.
49:54
It's
49:54
hard
49:54
to
49:55
escape
49:55
it.
49:56
The
49:56
beauty
49:57
of
49:57
the
49:57
mathematics
49:58
is
49:59
beloved.
49:59
And
50:00
Pythagoras
50:01
knew
50:01
that,
50:01
you
50:01
know,
50:03
each
50:03
number
50:04
was
50:05
revealing
50:05
a
50:05
spiritual
50:06
principle.
50:08
Since
50:08
I
50:08
know
50:08
nothing
50:09
about
50:09
mathematics,
50:10
let
50:11
me
50:11
come
50:11
back
50:11
to.
50:12
Well,
50:12
number
50:12
one
50:13
means
50:13
unity.
50:14
Two
50:14
means
50:14
duality.
50:15
Okay.
50:16
That
50:16
much
50:16
I
50:17
can
50:17
follow.
50:21
Throughout
50:22
this
50:22
book.
50:22
Just
50:23
when
50:23
I
50:23
think
50:23
you've
50:23
come
50:24
to
50:24
some
50:24
profound
50:25
denouement
50:26
and
50:26
ground,
50:27
you
50:28
take
50:28
it
50:28
to
50:28
another
50:29
level
50:30
and
50:30
you
50:31
point
50:31
out
50:32
at
50:32
this
50:32
stage
50:33
when
50:34
we've
50:34
recognized
50:35
our
50:36
love
50:36
for
50:36
the
50:36
world
50:36
is
50:37
actually
50:37
our
50:38
love
50:38
of
50:38
the
50:38
beloved,
50:39
and
50:39
that
50:39
the
50:40
world
50:40
itself
50:41
is
50:41
the
50:42
luminosity
50:43
emanation
50:43
of
50:44
the
50:44
beloved,
50:44
then
50:45
he
50:45
goes
50:45
still
50:45
deeper
50:46
and
50:47
say
50:47
that
50:47
we
50:48
finally
50:48
see
50:49
the
50:49
ultimate
50:49
truth
50:50
of
50:50
reality.
50:51
The
50:51
beloved
50:52
is
50:52
absolute
50:53
nothingness.
50:54
Here
50:54
we're
50:54
back
50:54
to
50:55
non
50:55
being,
50:56
a
50:56
condition
50:57
of
50:57
complete
50:57
non
50:58
being.
50:59
And
50:59
that
50:59
non
50:59
being
51:00
is
51:00
the
51:01
nature
51:01
of
51:01
everything.
51:02
It
51:02
is
51:03
literally
51:03
and
51:03
absolutely
51:04
the
51:04
fundamental
51:05
nature
51:05
of
51:06
everything.
51:06
And
51:06
then
51:06
you.
51:07
Then
51:07
you
51:08
point
51:08
out
51:09
this
51:09
is
51:09
a
51:09
com.
51:10
This
51:10
is
51:10
a
51:11
complete
51:11
contradiction
51:12
of
51:12
all
51:12
logic
51:13
and
51:13
befuddles
51:14
the
51:14
mind.
51:15
Yeah,
51:15
well,
51:15
of
51:15
course
51:16
the
51:16
mind.
51:19
Okay,
51:20
Everything
51:20
is
51:20
nothing.
51:21
That's
51:21
like,
51:22
well,
51:22
well,
51:22
this
51:22
mind
51:23
certainly
51:23
couldn't
51:24
handle
51:24
it.
51:25
How
51:25
can
51:26
being
51:26
be
51:27
everything?
51:27
You
51:28
know,
51:28
everything
51:28
is.
51:29
Being
51:29
is
51:30
something.
51:31
Yeah.
51:31
I
51:32
mean,
51:32
it
51:32
is.
51:32
You
51:32
have
51:33
to
51:33
have
51:33
it
51:33
as
51:33
a
51:34
direct
51:34
experience.
51:34
Otherwise
51:35
it
51:35
doesn't
51:35
make
51:35
sense
51:36
because
51:36
the
51:36
mind
51:36
can't.
51:37
There's
51:38
nothing.
51:38
No
51:39
logical
51:39
reason
51:39
can
51:40
lead
51:40
us
51:40
there.
51:41
I
51:41
found
51:41
that
51:41
very
51:41
liberating.
51:42
Thank
51:42
you,
51:42
Hamid.
51:43
I've
51:43
been
51:43
working
51:43
on
51:44
this
51:44
book
51:44
again,
51:45
I
51:45
don't
51:45
know,
51:45
for
51:45
two
51:45
or
51:46
three
51:46
months.
51:46
And
51:46
I
51:46
was
51:47
just
51:47
at
51:47
the
51:47
point,
51:47
like,
51:48
oh,
51:48
my
51:48
God.
51:49
Then
51:49
I
51:49
read
51:49
the
51:49
Bedazzled
51:50
chapter
51:50
again.
51:50
I
51:50
was
51:51
like,
51:51
okay,
51:52
it's
51:52
okay
51:53
to
51:53
know
51:54
that
51:54
you
51:54
never
51:54
will
51:54
understand
51:55
it,
51:55
but
51:55
you
51:55
can
51:56
experience
51:56
it
51:57
intimately.
51:58
And
51:58
that
51:58
is
51:58
just
51:59
amazing.
51:59
Yeah.
52:00
And
52:00
a
52:01
great
52:01
deal
52:01
of
52:01
knowledge
52:02
and
52:02
insight
52:03
arises
52:03
out
52:03
of
52:04
that,
52:04
you
52:04
know,
52:05
which
52:05
are
52:05
the
52:06
flashes.
52:07
Yes.
52:09
Yeah.
52:10
And
52:10
there's
52:11
a
52:11
very
52:11
important
52:12
practical
52:13
application
52:13
you
52:14
point
52:14
to
52:14
here,
52:14
Hamid,
52:15
which
52:16
is
52:16
that
52:16
when
52:17
we
52:17
recognize
52:18
the
52:18
world
52:18
as
52:19
the
52:20
luminosity
52:21
of
52:21
the
52:21
absolute,
52:22
as
52:22
its
52:23
emanation,
52:24
then
52:24
we
52:24
recognize
52:25
that
52:26
at
52:26
a
52:26
very
52:26
profound
52:27
level,
52:27
the
52:27
heart
52:28
hasn't
52:28
been
52:28
divided.
52:29
And
52:30
that
52:30
the
52:30
apparent
52:30
conflict
52:31
between
52:32
love,
52:32
craving
52:33
for
52:33
the
52:33
world,
52:34
and
52:34
the
52:34
love
52:34
of
52:34
the
52:35
beloved
52:35
are
52:36
actually.
52:36
We
52:37
don't
52:37
have
52:37
to
52:37
make
52:37
that
52:37
choice
52:39
because
52:40
they're
52:40
the
52:40
same.
52:41
Yeah.
52:41
I
52:42
mean,
52:42
from
52:42
this
52:42
space,
52:43
everything
52:43
is
52:44
all
52:44
an
52:44
expression
52:45
of
52:45
the
52:45
end
52:46
of
52:46
beloved.
52:46
But
52:47
it's
52:47
developmental.
52:48
You
52:48
know,
52:48
you
52:48
don't
52:49
start
52:49
out
52:49
with
52:49
that
52:50
recognition.
52:50
You're
52:50
talking
52:51
about
52:51
a
52:51
whole
52:51
path
52:52
of
52:52
spiritual
52:52
poverty
52:53
and
52:54
the
52:54
longing
52:54
and
52:55
this
52:55
and
52:55
that
52:56
until
52:56
you
52:56
finally
52:57
get
52:57
to
52:57
this
52:57
thing,
52:58
which
52:58
is
52:58
like,
52:59
it's
52:59
really
53:00
way
53:00
forward,
53:01
long
53:01
on
53:02
the
53:02
journey,
53:02
not
53:02
the
53:02
end
53:02
of
53:03
the
53:03
journey,
53:03
but
53:03
that's
53:03
a
53:03
realization
53:04
that
53:04
you
53:04
don't
53:05
quite
53:05
get
53:05
at
53:05
the
53:06
beginning.
53:06
No,
53:06
no,
53:07
you
53:07
don't
53:07
know
53:07
it.
53:07
You
53:08
might
53:08
have
53:08
read
53:08
it
53:08
or
53:09
guess
53:09
that,
53:09
but
53:10
you
53:10
know,
53:10
it's
53:11
from
53:11
experience.
53:12
You
53:12
have
53:12
to
53:12
go
53:12
very
53:13
deep.
53:13
You
53:13
have
53:13
to
53:13
go
53:13
beyond
53:14
your
53:14
mind
53:15
and
53:16
beliefs
53:17
and
53:17
ideas
53:17
and
53:18
all
53:19
of
53:19
it.
53:19
Whether
53:19
you
53:19
believe
53:19
in
53:20
God
53:20
or
53:20
no
53:20
God
53:21
or
53:21
whatever.
53:21
You
53:21
have
53:21
to
53:22
go
53:22
top
53:23
the
53:23
whole
53:23
thing.
53:23
The
53:24
whole
53:24
thing
53:24
has
53:24
dissolved,
53:25
and
53:25
you
53:25
have
53:25
to
53:25
dissolve
53:26
yourself.
53:27
You
53:27
know,
53:27
nothing
53:28
to
53:28
be
53:28
remained.
53:29
And,
53:29
you
53:30
know,
53:30
one
53:30
thing
53:30
I
53:31
wanted
53:31
to
53:31
bring
53:32
up,
53:32
which
53:32
is
53:32
not
53:33
in
53:33
the
53:33
book,
53:34
about
53:35
the
53:36
power
53:36
of
53:36
love
53:37
and
53:37
the
53:38
unity,
53:38
is
53:39
something
53:40
referring
53:40
to
53:41
the
53:41
field
53:42
of
53:42
tantra.
53:43
Many
53:43
traditions
53:44
use
53:44
tantra
53:45
as
53:45
a
53:45
practice,
53:46
especially
53:46
like
53:47
the.
53:47
You
53:48
know,
53:48
both
53:48
Hindu
53:49
and
53:49
Buddhist
53:50
or
53:50
like
53:50
Tibetan
53:51
tantra
53:52
talk
53:52
about
53:53
sexual
53:54
tantra,
53:54
for
53:55
instance,
53:56
but
53:56
they
53:56
talk
53:56
about
53:57
as
53:57
a
53:57
practice
53:58
of
53:58
sort
53:59
of
53:59
mind,
53:59
as
54:00
a
54:00
practice
54:01
that
54:02
has
54:02
to
54:02
do
54:02
with
54:02
knowledge.
54:03
And
54:03
the
54:04
lama
54:04
and
54:04
his
54:05
consort.
54:06
And
54:06
the
54:06
consort
54:07
is
54:07
trained
54:07
in
54:08
certain
54:08
ways,
54:09
and
54:09
the
54:09
lama
54:09
can
54:10
go
54:10
deeper
54:10
into
54:11
emptiness
54:11
until
54:12
they
54:13
become
54:13
into
54:13
the
54:14
state
54:14
of
54:14
domination.
54:15
And
54:15
one
54:16
thing
54:16
I
54:16
want
54:17
to
54:17
say
54:17
about
54:17
that,
54:18
that
54:19
neglects
54:20
the
54:20
role
54:20
of
54:20
love.
54:22
Neglects
54:23
the
54:23
role.
54:23
It
54:23
makes
54:24
it
54:24
sound
54:24
like
54:24
it's
54:25
all
54:25
just
54:26
discipline
54:27
and
54:27
clarity
54:28
and
54:29
all
54:29
that.
54:30
The
54:30
role
54:30
of
54:30
love
54:31
happens
54:31
is
54:32
if
54:33
the
54:33
lama
54:33
is
54:34
not
54:34
with
54:34
the
54:34
consort,
54:35
but
54:35
of
54:35
an
54:36
equal
54:37
counterpart,
54:38
who
54:38
also
54:39
is
54:41
deep,
54:42
and
54:42
they
54:42
love
54:43
each
54:43
other,
54:44
there's
54:44
true
54:44
love
54:45
between
54:45
them,
54:46
then
54:47
I
54:47
am
54:47
applying
54:48
the
54:48
principle
54:48
that
54:49
everything
54:50
is
54:50
really
54:51
the
54:51
manifestation,
54:52
the
54:52
beloved,
54:53
right
54:53
to
54:53
this
54:54
principle
54:54
of
54:55
tantra.
54:56
When
54:56
the
54:56
love
54:56
is
54:57
really
54:57
there,
54:58
it's
54:59
not
54:59
only
54:59
just
55:00
clarity
55:00
and.
55:01
But
55:01
the
55:01
practice
55:02
has
55:02
love,
55:03
not
55:03
just
55:04
sexual
55:05
sexuality
55:06
energizes
55:07
clarity.
55:08
No,
55:08
the
55:09
love
55:09
is
55:09
what
55:09
does
55:09
it.
55:10
The
55:10
love
55:10
dissolves
55:11
the
55:11
two
55:12
when
55:12
it
55:12
happens
55:13
really
55:14
in
55:14
a
55:14
deep
55:14
way.
55:15
The
55:15
tantra,
55:16
the
55:16
pleasure
55:16
of
55:16
the
55:17
sexual
55:17
contact
55:18
or
55:18
the
55:18
physical
55:19
whatever.
55:20
And
55:20
then
55:21
if,
55:21
when
55:22
it
55:22
is
55:22
enhanced
55:23
by
55:23
the
55:23
love,
55:24
the
55:24
love
55:24
is
55:24
from
55:25
within,
55:25
unites
55:26
the
55:26
two
55:26
and
55:27
dissolve
55:27
them
55:28
to
55:28
become
55:28
this
55:29
vastness.
55:30
Yeah.
55:30
Thank
55:31
you,
55:31
Amit.
55:31
I
55:31
haven't
55:31
thought
55:32
of
55:32
that
55:32
and
55:32
I
55:32
haven't
55:33
seen
55:33
it
55:33
in
55:33
any.
55:34
I
55:34
don't
55:34
think
55:35
it's
55:35
in
55:35
what
55:36
I
55:36
know
55:36
of
55:36
the
55:36
Tantric
55:37
tradition.
55:37
I
55:37
haven't
55:38
seen
55:38
that,
55:38
mentioned
55:38
it.
55:39
As
55:39
you
55:40
said,
55:40
the
55:41
traditional
55:41
descriptions
55:42
are
55:42
more
55:42
about
55:43
an
55:43
energetics
55:44
and
55:44
culmination
55:45
in
55:46
clarity,
55:46
illumination,
55:47
but
55:48
without
55:48
the
55:49
heart
55:49
so
55:50
much.
55:50
Yeah.
55:50
I
55:51
mean,
55:51
sometimes
55:51
they
55:52
talk
55:52
about
55:52
love
55:52
and
55:53
you
55:53
know,
55:54
how
55:55
the
55:56
student
55:56
or
55:57
the
55:58
council
55:59
loves
55:59
the
56:00
master
56:00
and.
56:01
But
56:02
it's
56:02
not
56:02
this
56:02
way
56:03
of
56:03
the
56:04
love
56:04
coming
56:04
from
56:05
within
56:05
both
56:06
and
56:06
becoming
56:07
one
56:07
love.
56:08
And
56:08
so
56:09
it's
56:09
not
56:09
like
56:10
two
56:10
bodies
56:11
become
56:11
one.
56:11
No,
56:12
two
56:13
consciousness
56:13
become
56:14
one.
56:14
One
56:15
consciousness
56:16
that
56:16
reveals
56:16
its
56:17
nature,
56:18
that's
56:19
annihilating
56:20
emptiness.
56:21
Could
56:22
it
56:22
be
56:22
true
56:22
to
56:22
say
56:22
that
56:23
if
56:23
there's
56:23
no
56:23
love,
56:24
there's
56:24
no
56:24
true
56:25
realization?
56:26
No,
56:26
I
56:26
wouldn't
56:26
say
56:27
that.
56:27
I
56:27
mean,
56:27
I
56:27
think
56:28
Tibetans
56:28
will
56:29
practice,
56:29
you
56:29
know,
56:30
their
56:30
tantra.
56:30
They
56:31
do
56:31
get
56:31
into
56:31
state
56:32
real.
56:33
They
56:33
get
56:33
into
56:34
the
56:34
clarity,
56:35
non
56:35
duality,
56:36
all
56:36
of
56:36
that.
56:37
But
56:37
when
56:38
there
56:38
is
56:38
love,
56:39
it
56:39
becomes
56:39
similar
56:40
to
56:40
the
56:40
path
56:41
of
56:41
love.
56:41
The
56:41
inner
56:42
nature
56:42
appears
56:43
as
56:43
an
56:44
expression
56:44
of
56:44
love
56:44
and
56:45
as
56:46
also
56:46
empowering
56:47
love
56:47
adds
56:48
love
56:48
to
56:48
it.
56:49
Instead
56:49
of
56:49
just
56:50
clarity,
56:51
the
56:52
heart
56:52
become
56:52
the
56:52
center
56:53
of
56:53
the
56:53
tantra,
56:54
not
56:54
the
56:54
body
56:55
or
56:55
the
56:55
mind,
56:56
which
56:56
is
56:57
really
56:57
what
56:58
people
56:59
who,
57:00
when
57:00
they
57:00
fall
57:00
in
57:00
love,
57:01
they're
57:01
trying
57:01
to
57:01
do.
57:02
When
57:02
people
57:03
fall
57:03
in
57:03
love,
57:03
that's
57:04
what
57:04
they
57:04
really.
57:04
That's
57:05
the
57:05
movement,
57:05
the
57:06
strength.
57:06
That's
57:06
right.
57:07
They
57:07
want
57:07
to
57:08
sort
57:08
of
57:08
become
57:09
so
57:09
one,
57:10
so
57:10
completely
57:11
together.
57:11
You
57:11
know,
57:12
they
57:12
don't
57:13
want
57:13
to
57:13
be
57:13
apart
57:13
from
57:14
each
57:14
other.
57:14
Where
57:15
does
57:15
that
57:15
come
57:15
from?
57:16
That
57:16
is
57:16
really
57:17
that
57:17
force.
57:18
But
57:18
most
57:19
people
57:19
don't
57:20
come
57:20
to
57:20
its
57:21
completion.
57:21
You
57:22
know,
57:22
they
57:22
come
57:23
to
57:23
some
57:23
level
57:23
of.
57:24
You
57:24
know,
57:25
they
57:25
love
57:26
each
57:26
other.
57:26
They
57:27
love.
57:27
They
57:27
might
57:27
be
57:28
happy
57:28
together,
57:29
but
57:29
they
57:29
dissolve
57:30
into
57:30
each
57:30
other.
57:30
That's
57:31
the
57:31
mystical
57:31
level
57:32
of
57:32
it.
57:33
And
57:33
certainly
57:34
not
57:34
part
57:34
of
57:34
our
57:34
Hollywood
57:35
version
57:35
of
57:35
love.
57:36
But
57:38
Hollywood
57:38
does
57:38
something.
57:39
But.
57:41
Right.
57:42
I
57:42
can't
57:42
imagine
57:45
two
57:46
sort
57:47
of
57:47
impressing
57:48
each
57:48
other
57:48
and
57:49
the
57:49
purest
57:49
into
57:50
light.
57:51
Yeah.
57:52
And
57:53
they
57:53
lived
57:53
happily
57:54
ever
57:54
after,
57:55
disappearing.
57:55
So
57:56
on
57:56
the
57:56
screen
57:56
they
57:57
become
57:57
all
57:57
black.
58:01
So
58:01
amid
58:02
you
58:02
point
58:02
out
58:03
that
58:03
at
58:03
a
58:03
certain
58:04
point
58:04
we
58:04
come
58:04
to
58:05
the
58:05
realization
58:06
that
58:06
in
58:06
loving
58:07
the
58:07
world,
58:07
we
58:07
are
58:08
loving
58:08
the
58:08
beloved.
58:09
And
58:09
then
58:09
you
58:09
have
58:10
a
58:10
beautiful
58:10
statement.
58:11
You
58:11
say,
58:12
at
58:12
this
58:12
stage
58:12
we
58:13
can
58:13
allow
58:13
our
58:14
love
58:15
free
58:15
reign
58:16
without
58:16
any
58:17
conflict.
58:18
Because
58:18
whatever
58:19
we
58:19
love,
58:20
we
58:20
know
58:20
it's
58:20
the
58:20
beloved.
58:22
Yes.
58:23
As
58:23
long
58:23
as
58:23
we
58:24
still
58:24
in
58:24
touch
58:24
with
58:24
the
58:25
beloved.
58:25
That's
58:26
the
58:26
way
58:26
it
58:26
works.
58:27
Because
58:28
whatever
58:29
we
58:29
love,
58:29
it's
58:30
an
58:30
expression
58:30
of
58:31
the
58:31
beloved.
58:32
And
58:33
the
58:33
love
58:33
is
58:33
the
58:33
love
58:34
of
58:34
the
58:34
beloved.
58:35
Because
58:35
the
58:35
beloved
58:36
loves
58:36
everything.
58:38
And
58:38
from
58:38
the
58:38
inside
58:39
out
58:39
also.
58:39
Yeah,
58:40
I
58:40
mean,
58:41
you
58:41
can
58:41
experience
58:42
others
58:42
pain,
58:43
others
58:44
being
58:44
not
58:45
only
58:45
from
58:45
the
58:45
outside,
58:46
but
58:46
from
58:46
the
58:46
inside.
58:47
Yeah,
58:47
that's
58:48
the
58:48
sensitivity
58:49
of
58:49
the
58:49
heart,
58:50
of
58:50
course.
58:51
But
58:52
I
58:52
mean,
58:52
you
58:52
also
58:54
warn
58:55
that
58:55
this
58:55
is
58:55
not
58:56
an
58:56
easy
58:56
stage
58:57
or
58:57
station
58:58
to
58:58
remain
58:58
at
58:59
that.
58:59
Our
59:00
conditioning,
59:01
as
59:01
you
59:01
call
59:01
it,
59:02
the
59:02
tenacious
59:02
hold
59:03
of
59:03
the
59:03
duality
59:04
is
59:05
a
59:05
very
59:05
deep
59:06
conditioning.
59:07
And
59:07
it's.
59:08
It
59:08
reasserts
59:09
itself
59:10
periodically
59:11
and
59:11
we
59:11
have
59:11
to
59:12
go.
59:12
Then
59:12
we
59:12
forget
59:13
that
59:14
we
59:14
get
59:14
fascinated
59:15
or
59:15
fixated
59:16
on
59:16
objects
59:17
or
59:17
people
59:17
or
59:17
things,
59:18
forgetting
59:19
or
59:19
losing
59:20
touch
59:20
with
59:20
the
59:20
beloved.
59:21
So
59:21
you
59:21
emphasize
59:22
that
59:22
even
59:23
this
59:23
deep
59:23
realization,
59:25
there's
59:25
a
59:25
further
59:26
stage
59:26
of
59:26
stabilizing
59:27
it,
59:27
which
59:27
is
59:28
not
59:28
easy.
59:28
Yeah,
59:29
Stabilizing
59:30
the
59:30
realization
59:30
is
59:31
another
59:32
thing,
59:32
another
59:32
stage
59:33
of
59:33
any
59:33
realization.
59:35
You
59:35
know,
59:36
many
59:36
people
59:37
think
59:37
they
59:37
get
59:37
an
59:38
awakening
59:38
realization
59:39
that
59:39
says,
59:40
actually,
59:40
no,
59:41
it's
59:41
just
59:41
the
59:41
beginning.
59:42
And
59:42
because
59:43
there
59:43
is
59:43
the
59:44
first,
59:45
the
59:45
actual
59:45
realization
59:46
or
59:46
the
59:46
awakening
59:47
to
59:47
the
59:48
new
59:48
sort
59:49
of
59:49
condition
59:50
of
59:50
reality,
59:51
next
59:52
thing
59:52
is
59:52
stabilizing
59:53
it,
59:53
making
59:53
it
59:54
constant
59:55
and
59:55
permanent.
59:56
Third
59:56
stage
59:57
is
59:57
living
59:58
from
59:58
that
59:58
place,
1:00:01
which
1:00:01
is
1:00:01
not
1:00:01
the
1:00:02
most
1:00:02
difficult
1:00:02
actually.
1:00:03
To
1:00:04
live
1:00:04
life
1:00:05
while
1:00:05
still
1:00:06
embodying
1:00:06
that
1:00:07
condition
1:00:07
is
1:00:07
not
1:00:08
a
1:00:08
simple
1:00:08
one
1:00:08
for
1:00:08
most
1:00:09
people.
1:00:09
They
1:00:09
go
1:00:09
back
1:00:10
to
1:00:10
the
1:00:10
doer
1:00:11
to
1:00:11
live
1:00:11
their
1:00:11
life,
1:00:11
which
1:00:12
means
1:00:12
to
1:00:12
leave
1:00:13
their
1:00:14
this
1:00:14
kind
1:00:14
of
1:00:14
subtle
1:00:15
place.
1:00:16
Is
1:00:16
that
1:00:16
what
1:00:16
you
1:00:17
described
1:00:17
as
1:00:17
actualization?
1:00:18
Yes,
1:00:19
at
1:00:19
one
1:00:19
point.
1:00:19
Okay,
1:00:20
yes,
1:00:20
that's
1:00:20
what.
1:00:21
Actualization.
1:00:22
I
1:00:22
call
1:00:22
it
1:00:22
actualization,
1:00:23
realization.
1:00:24
Yeah,
1:00:24
yeah,
1:00:25
that's
1:00:25
a
1:00:25
very
1:00:25
important
1:00:26
point.
1:00:26
It
1:00:26
seems
1:00:27
to
1:00:27
me,
1:00:27
because
1:00:28
you're
1:00:28
right.
1:00:29
There
1:00:29
is
1:00:30
often
1:00:30
the
1:00:31
implication
1:00:31
in
1:00:32
some
1:00:32
teachings
1:00:32
and
1:00:33
certainly
1:00:33
a
1:00:34
misunderstanding
1:00:35
that,
1:00:35
yeah,
1:00:36
just
1:00:36
having
1:00:36
a
1:00:36
taste
1:00:37
is
1:00:37
like,
1:00:37
I
1:00:38
got
1:00:38
it.
1:00:38
And
1:00:39
some
1:00:39
people
1:00:39
sit
1:00:39
out
1:00:40
and
1:00:40
establish
1:00:40
themselves
1:00:41
as
1:00:41
teachers
1:00:41
at
1:00:42
that
1:00:42
stage.
1:00:43
It
1:00:43
can
1:00:44
be
1:00:44
a
1:00:44
problem,
1:00:44
not
1:00:45
even
1:00:45
a
1:00:45
state.
1:00:45
Even
1:00:46
if
1:00:46
you
1:00:46
experience
1:00:47
a
1:00:47
very
1:00:47
deep,
1:00:48
profound
1:00:48
and
1:00:49
expansive
1:00:49
realization
1:00:50
for
1:00:51
some
1:00:51
time
1:00:51
doesn't
1:00:52
mean
1:00:52
it's
1:00:53
going
1:00:53
to
1:00:53
stay
1:00:54
like
1:00:54
that
1:00:55
or
1:00:55
that
1:00:55
we're
1:00:55
going
1:00:56
to
1:00:56
live
1:00:56
it.
1:00:56
Because
1:00:57
the
1:00:58
part
1:00:58
of
1:00:58
it,
1:00:59
the
1:00:59
self
1:00:59
dissolves
1:01:00
in
1:01:00
those
1:01:01
stages.
1:01:02
That
1:01:02
doesn't
1:01:02
mean
1:01:02
the
1:01:03
self
1:01:03
dissolve
1:01:03
forever
1:01:04
because
1:01:04
the
1:01:05
dissolve
1:01:05
has
1:01:05
many
1:01:06
powerful
1:01:06
forces
1:01:07
within
1:01:07
it.
1:01:08
And
1:01:08
that
1:01:08
can
1:01:08
bring
1:01:08
it
1:01:09
back.
1:01:10
Depending
1:01:10
on
1:01:10
what
1:01:11
happens
1:01:11
in
1:01:12
life.
1:01:12
You
1:01:12
Know,
1:01:13
as
1:01:13
in
1:01:13
the
1:01:13
Zen
1:01:13
ox
1:01:14
hurting
1:01:14
pictures.
1:01:15
The
1:01:15
last
1:01:15
one,
1:01:16
of
1:01:16
course,
1:01:16
is
1:01:16
the
1:01:16
man
1:01:17
who's
1:01:17
gone
1:01:17
through
1:01:17
all
1:01:17
these
1:01:17
experiences,
1:01:18
coming
1:01:18
back
1:01:18
into
1:01:19
the
1:01:19
world
1:01:20
with
1:01:20
open
1:01:20
heart
1:01:21
and
1:01:21
open
1:01:21
hands.
1:01:22
Yeah,
1:01:22
that's
1:01:23
what
1:01:23
I
1:01:23
mean
1:01:24
by
1:01:25
actualization
1:01:26
that
1:01:26
you
1:01:27
live
1:01:27
back
1:01:27
at
1:01:27
the
1:01:28
marketplace,
1:01:28
they
1:01:28
say
1:01:29
so
1:01:29
you're
1:01:29
really
1:01:30
with
1:01:30
people
1:01:30
and
1:01:31
deal
1:01:31
with
1:01:31
things,
1:01:31
but
1:01:33
the
1:01:33
truth
1:01:34
is
1:01:34
within
1:01:34
you
1:01:34
and
1:01:35
maybe
1:01:36
nobody
1:01:36
notices
1:01:37
it,
1:01:37
but
1:01:38
you're
1:01:38
living
1:01:38
from
1:01:39
that
1:01:39
place.
1:01:39
And
1:01:40
I
1:01:40
want
1:01:40
to
1:01:40
go
1:01:40
back
1:01:40
to
1:01:40
something
1:01:41
you
1:01:41
just
1:01:41
said
1:01:41
amid,
1:01:42
because
1:01:42
again,
1:01:43
it
1:01:43
feels
1:01:43
something
1:01:44
which
1:01:44
is
1:01:44
much
1:01:44
misunderstood
1:01:45
and
1:01:45
underemphasized.
1:01:46
You
1:01:47
said
1:01:47
that
1:01:47
the
1:01:47
separate
1:01:48
self
1:01:48
sense
1:01:48
can
1:01:49
dissolve,
1:01:50
but
1:01:50
then
1:01:50
re.
1:01:50
Establish.
1:01:51
And
1:01:51
that
1:01:51
was
1:01:52
certainly.
1:01:52
That
1:01:53
was
1:01:53
certainly
1:01:53
my
1:01:54
assumption.
1:01:55
And
1:01:55
I,
1:01:55
you
1:01:55
know,
1:01:56
when
1:01:56
the
1:01:56
self
1:01:57
sense
1:01:57
I
1:01:57
had
1:01:57
there
1:01:58
was
1:01:58
an
1:01:58
experience
1:01:58
of
1:01:58
the
1:01:59
self
1:01:59
sense
1:01:59
dissolving
1:02:00
those.
1:02:00
My
1:02:01
thought
1:02:01
was,
1:02:01
oh,
1:02:01
wonderful.
1:02:02
Oh,
1:02:03
cross
1:02:03
that
1:02:03
off
1:02:04
the
1:02:04
list.
1:02:04
But
1:02:05
that's.
1:02:06
I
1:02:07
rapidly
1:02:07
found
1:02:08
that's
1:02:08
not
1:02:08
the
1:02:09
way
1:02:09
it
1:02:09
works.
1:02:10
You
1:02:10
find
1:02:10
out
1:02:10
that
1:02:11
by
1:02:11
yourself.
1:02:11
Yeah,
1:02:12
I
1:02:12
had
1:02:12
many
1:02:12
of
1:02:12
those
1:02:13
two
1:02:13
experiences.
1:02:14
And
1:02:15
when
1:02:15
I
1:02:15
think,
1:02:16
oh,
1:02:16
yeah,
1:02:16
that's
1:02:16
it
1:02:17
happened,
1:02:17
it's
1:02:17
gone.
1:02:18
Dissolved.
1:02:19
Complete
1:02:19
enlightenment.
1:02:21
Few
1:02:21
days
1:02:21
later,
1:02:23
things
1:02:23
back
1:02:24
to
1:02:24
normal.
1:02:25
Yeah,
1:02:26
I
1:02:26
had
1:02:26
a.
1:02:26
I
1:02:26
had
1:02:26
a
1:02:26
flash
1:02:27
while
1:02:27
I
1:02:27
was
1:02:27
studying
1:02:28
this
1:02:28
that
1:02:29
I
1:02:29
was
1:02:29
like
1:02:29
an
1:02:29
ice
1:02:30
cube.
1:02:30
And
1:02:30
you
1:02:30
throw
1:02:31
the
1:02:31
ice
1:02:31
cube
1:02:31
into
1:02:32
a
1:02:32
warm
1:02:32
ocean
1:02:33
and
1:02:33
it
1:02:33
just
1:02:34
dissolves
1:02:34
and
1:02:35
you're
1:02:35
just
1:02:35
one
1:02:35
with,
1:02:36
you
1:02:36
know,
1:02:36
your
1:02:37
beloved
1:02:37
ocean,
1:02:37
and
1:02:38
there
1:02:38
it
1:02:38
is.
1:02:39
But
1:02:40
the
1:02:40
ice
1:02:40
cube
1:02:41
comes
1:02:41
back
1:02:41
again.
1:02:42
So
1:02:42
that,
1:02:43
that
1:02:44
does
1:02:44
bear
1:02:44
mentioning.
1:02:45
I
1:02:45
mean,
1:02:45
the
1:02:46
humility
1:02:46
that
1:02:46
arises
1:02:47
in
1:02:47
that
1:02:47
recognition
1:02:48
is
1:02:48
a
1:02:49
very
1:02:49
important
1:02:49
step,
1:02:50
actually,
1:02:50
toward
1:02:51
the.
1:02:51
Making
1:02:51
it
1:02:52
more
1:02:52
constant,
1:02:53
you
1:02:54
know,
1:02:55
and
1:02:55
the
1:02:55
humility
1:02:56
culminates
1:02:57
in
1:02:57
the
1:02:57
sense
1:02:58
of
1:02:58
acceptance
1:02:59
of
1:02:59
whatever
1:03:00
it
1:03:00
is,
1:03:01
not
1:03:02
having
1:03:02
to
1:03:02
believe
1:03:03
one
1:03:03
thing
1:03:03
or
1:03:03
another.
1:03:04
Whatever
1:03:05
is
1:03:05
is,
1:03:05
whatever
1:03:06
will
1:03:06
be,
1:03:07
will
1:03:07
be.
1:03:08
That's
1:03:09
helpful
1:03:09
because
1:03:10
it's
1:03:10
so
1:03:10
easy
1:03:11
to
1:03:11
get
1:03:11
into
1:03:11
the
1:03:11
trap
1:03:12
of
1:03:12
getting
1:03:12
attached
1:03:13
to
1:03:14
the
1:03:14
non
1:03:14
duality
1:03:15
instead
1:03:16
of,
1:03:16
as
1:03:17
you
1:03:17
said,
1:03:17
an
1:03:18
openness
1:03:18
to
1:03:19
an
1:03:19
acceptance
1:03:19
of
1:03:20
whatever
1:03:21
is.
1:03:21
Yeah.
1:03:22
Including
1:03:23
your
1:03:23
individual
1:03:23
self.
1:03:24
Yeah.
1:03:24
Like,
1:03:25
that's
1:03:25
why
1:03:25
my
1:03:26
student,
1:03:26
when
1:03:26
they
1:03:26
tell
1:03:27
me,
1:03:27
oh,
1:03:27
I'm
1:03:28
feeling
1:03:28
hurt
1:03:29
or
1:03:29
sad,
1:03:30
I
1:03:30
said,
1:03:30
who's
1:03:31
feeling
1:03:31
hurt
1:03:31
or
1:03:31
sad?
1:03:32
That's
1:03:33
my
1:03:33
question.
1:03:33
And
1:03:34
they
1:03:34
find
1:03:34
themselves
1:03:35
usually
1:03:36
because
1:03:37
being
1:03:38
doesn't
1:03:38
feel
1:03:38
certain
1:03:39
or
1:03:40
hurt
1:03:40
or
1:03:40
lost
1:03:41
or
1:03:41
anything.
1:03:42
Hamid,
1:03:43
in
1:03:43
your.
1:03:43
In
1:03:43
the
1:03:44
final
1:03:44
chapter
1:03:45
of
1:03:45
the
1:03:45
Innu
1:03:45
Beloved,
1:03:46
which
1:03:46
you
1:03:46
title
1:03:47
Intimacy.
1:03:48
Yeah.
1:03:48
You
1:03:49
start
1:03:50
off
1:03:50
by
1:03:51
pointing
1:03:51
out
1:03:51
that
1:03:52
at
1:03:52
this
1:03:52
deep
1:03:53
stage,
1:03:53
there's
1:03:53
a
1:03:53
recognition
1:03:54
that
1:03:54
all
1:03:55
manifestation
1:03:56
is
1:03:56
the
1:03:57
beloved
1:03:57
and
1:03:58
there's
1:03:58
a
1:03:58
profound
1:03:59
sense
1:04:00
of
1:04:00
unity.
1:04:00
But
1:04:01
you
1:04:01
say,
1:04:01
but
1:04:02
there's
1:04:02
a
1:04:02
deeper
1:04:03
mystery
1:04:03
to
1:04:04
this
1:04:04
unity
1:04:05
because
1:04:05
the
1:04:06
essence
1:04:06
of
1:04:07
reality
1:04:08
is
1:04:08
non
1:04:09
being.
1:04:09
Again,
1:04:10
you
1:04:10
come
1:04:10
back
1:04:10
to
1:04:11
this
1:04:12
emphasis
1:04:13
that
1:04:13
the
1:04:13
fundamental
1:04:14
nature
1:04:15
of
1:04:15
reality
1:04:15
is
1:04:16
non
1:04:16
being.
1:04:17
This
1:04:17
mysterious
1:04:19
appearance,
1:04:20
emptiness.
1:04:21
Yeah.
1:04:21
That's
1:04:21
what
1:04:22
we're
1:04:22
talking
1:04:22
about.
1:04:23
And
1:04:23
that's
1:04:24
the
1:04:25
essence
1:04:25
of
1:04:25
intimacy.
1:04:27
Because
1:04:27
non
1:04:28
being
1:04:29
that
1:04:29
mean
1:04:29
you
1:04:30
have
1:04:30
no
1:04:30
distance
1:04:32
between
1:04:32
you
1:04:33
and
1:04:33
anything
1:04:33
else.
1:04:34
You're
1:04:34
completely
1:04:35
one
1:04:35
with
1:04:35
it.
1:04:36
And
1:04:37
that's
1:04:37
the
1:04:37
condition
1:04:38
of
1:04:38
intimacy.
1:04:39
Which
1:04:39
in
1:04:39
this
1:04:40
condition,
1:04:40
in
1:04:40
this
1:04:41
state
1:04:41
can.
1:04:42
You
1:04:42
can
1:04:42
have
1:04:42
even
1:04:42
the
1:04:43
effect
1:04:43
of
1:04:43
intimacy.
1:04:45
That
1:04:45
is
1:04:46
amazing
1:04:46
because
1:04:47
I
1:04:47
think
1:04:47
one
1:04:47
of
1:04:47
the
1:04:47
fears
1:04:48
when
1:04:48
we're
1:04:49
going
1:04:49
into
1:04:49
these
1:04:49
non
1:04:49
dual
1:04:50
states
1:04:50
of
1:04:51
realization
1:04:52
is
1:04:52
that
1:04:52
it's
1:04:53
just
1:04:53
too
1:04:53
big,
1:04:54
you
1:04:54
know,
1:04:54
it's
1:04:54
too
1:04:55
abstract,
1:04:55
it's
1:04:56
too
1:04:57
enormous.
1:04:57
That
1:04:57
you
1:04:58
can't
1:04:58
wrap
1:04:58
your
1:04:58
head
1:04:58
around
1:04:58
it.
1:04:59
But
1:04:59
you
1:04:59
end
1:04:59
up
1:04:59
this
1:05:00
book
1:05:00
talking
1:05:00
about
1:05:01
intimacy.
1:05:02
This
1:05:02
realization
1:05:03
is
1:05:04
personal.
1:05:04
It's
1:05:04
intimate
1:05:05
right
1:05:05
there.
1:05:06
Because
1:05:06
you're
1:05:06
feeling
1:05:06
everything
1:05:07
from
1:05:07
inside.
1:05:08
Yes.
1:05:09
No,
1:05:10
you
1:05:10
are
1:05:10
the
1:05:11
inside
1:05:11
of
1:05:11
everything.
1:05:12
You're
1:05:13
inside
1:05:13
the
1:05:13
heart
1:05:14
of
1:05:14
everybody,
1:05:15
inside
1:05:16
any
1:05:17
manifestation.
1:05:18
So
1:05:18
of
1:05:18
course,
1:05:19
with
1:05:19
intimacy
1:05:20
there's
1:05:20
no
1:05:20
distance.
1:05:21
The
1:05:21
closeness
1:05:22
is
1:05:22
complete.
1:05:23
And
1:05:24
the
1:05:24
closeness
1:05:25
so
1:05:25
complete
1:05:26
manifests
1:05:27
that
1:05:27
actual
1:05:27
affects
1:05:29
intimate.
1:05:29
Without
1:05:30
it
1:05:30
being
1:05:31
something
1:05:31
intimate
1:05:32
or
1:05:32
something
1:05:32
else.
1:05:33
Just
1:05:33
a
1:05:34
condition
1:05:34
of
1:05:34
intimacy.
1:05:35
And
1:05:36
you
1:05:36
make
1:05:36
a
1:05:37
beautiful
1:05:37
statement,
1:05:37
ami.
1:05:38
That
1:05:39
our
1:05:39
love
1:05:39
has
1:05:39
taken
1:05:40
our
1:05:40
heart
1:05:41
to
1:05:41
the
1:05:41
place
1:05:41
where
1:05:42
there's
1:05:42
no
1:05:42
possibility
1:05:44
of
1:05:44
separateness
1:05:45
and
1:05:45
distance.
1:05:46
And
1:05:46
at
1:05:46
the
1:05:46
same
1:05:47
time
1:05:47
it
1:05:47
feels
1:05:47
like
1:05:48
we
1:05:48
are
1:05:48
completely
1:05:49
in
1:05:49
touch
1:05:50
with
1:05:50
all
1:05:50
of
1:05:51
existence.
1:05:52
Yes.
1:05:53
There's
1:05:53
no
1:05:53
distance.
1:05:54
We're
1:05:54
completely
1:05:55
in
1:05:55
touch.
1:05:56
And
1:05:56
interesting
1:05:57
thing
1:05:57
here
1:05:57
that
1:05:58
this
1:05:58
complete
1:05:59
in
1:05:59
touch
1:05:59
and
1:06:00
the
1:06:00
intimacy
1:06:01
is
1:06:01
like
1:06:02
none
1:06:03
being
1:06:03
with
1:06:04
and
1:06:04
love
1:06:04
at
1:06:05
the
1:06:05
same
1:06:05
time.
1:06:07
Love
1:06:07
is
1:06:07
what
1:06:08
brings
1:06:08
the
1:06:09
sense
1:06:09
of
1:06:09
intimacy.
1:06:11
Because
1:06:11
it
1:06:11
is
1:06:12
a
1:06:13
delicacy.
1:06:14
It's
1:06:14
quite
1:06:14
a
1:06:15
refinement.
1:06:16
Where
1:06:16
the
1:06:17
non
1:06:17
being
1:06:18
make
1:06:18
the
1:06:18
refinement
1:06:19
complete,
1:06:20
total.
1:06:22
And
1:06:22
you
1:06:22
take
1:06:23
it
1:06:23
still
1:06:23
further
1:06:23
in
1:06:24
saying
1:06:25
that
1:06:25
it's
1:06:26
only
1:06:26
when
1:06:26
we
1:06:26
finally
1:06:27
behold
1:06:27
and
1:06:28
dissolve
1:06:28
in
1:06:29
the
1:06:29
beloved
1:06:29
that
1:06:30
we
1:06:30
find
1:06:30
pure
1:06:30
intimacy.
1:06:32
And
1:06:32
we
1:06:32
realize
1:06:32
that
1:06:33
reality
1:06:33
itself
1:06:34
is
1:06:35
pure
1:06:35
intimacy.
1:06:36
Yeah.
1:06:37
From
1:06:37
the
1:06:38
path
1:06:38
of
1:06:38
love,
1:06:39
non
1:06:39
duality
1:06:40
becomes
1:06:40
intimacy.
1:06:41
Yeah.
1:06:42
Beautiful.
1:06:43
It's
1:06:43
so
1:06:43
beautiful.
1:06:44
Yeah.
1:06:45
Yeah.
1:06:45
Because
1:06:45
it's
1:06:45
heart.
1:06:46
Intimacy
1:06:46
is
1:06:48
the
1:06:48
heart
1:06:48
chamber
1:06:49
experiencing
1:06:50
its
1:06:50
sensibility.
1:06:52
It's
1:06:52
a
1:06:52
way
1:06:53
of
1:06:53
experiencing
1:06:54
things
1:06:54
through
1:06:55
intimacy.
1:06:56
And
1:06:56
you
1:06:56
point
1:06:56
out
1:06:57
that
1:06:57
this
1:06:58
realization
1:06:58
of
1:06:59
the
1:06:59
fundamental
1:07:00
intimacy
1:07:01
of
1:07:01
reality.
1:07:02
Along
1:07:02
with
1:07:03
that
1:07:03
comes
1:07:03
the
1:07:03
recognition
1:07:04
is
1:07:04
this
1:07:05
is
1:07:05
the
1:07:05
intimacy
1:07:06
I've
1:07:06
always
1:07:07
longed
1:07:07
for.
1:07:08
Yeah.
1:07:08
I
1:07:08
mean,
1:07:09
human
1:07:09
being
1:07:10
long
1:07:10
for
1:07:10
intimacy
1:07:12
about
1:07:12
relationship.
1:07:13
You
1:07:13
want
1:07:13
intimacy,
1:07:15
especially
1:07:15
if
1:07:16
you're
1:07:16
in
1:07:17
touch
1:07:17
with
1:07:17
yourself.
1:07:18
You're
1:07:19
not
1:07:19
in
1:07:19
touch
1:07:19
with
1:07:19
yourself.
1:07:20
You
1:07:20
want
1:07:20
power
1:07:21
or
1:07:21
gain
1:07:21
or
1:07:22
this
1:07:22
and
1:07:22
that.
1:07:22
But
1:07:22
you're
1:07:23
really
1:07:23
in
1:07:24
touch
1:07:24
with
1:07:24
yourself,
1:07:25
with
1:07:25
your
1:07:25
heart.
1:07:26
I
1:07:26
mean,
1:07:28
intimacy
1:07:28
is
1:07:30
the
1:07:30
reward
1:07:31
of
1:07:31
life,
1:07:33
one
1:07:33
of
1:07:33
the
1:07:33
rewards
1:07:34
of
1:07:34
life.
1:07:34
The
1:07:35
experience
1:07:35
of
1:07:36
it's
1:07:36
so
1:07:36
enriching
1:07:37
so
1:07:38
satisfying
1:07:38
and
1:07:39
completing.
1:07:40
Beautiful.
1:07:41
Well,
1:07:41
amid,
1:07:42
we
1:07:42
have
1:07:43
traversed
1:07:44
with
1:07:44
you
1:07:45
as
1:07:46
our
1:07:46
guide,
1:07:46
the
1:07:47
path
1:07:47
of
1:07:47
love.
1:07:47
And
1:07:48
we've
1:07:48
worked
1:07:48
our
1:07:49
way
1:07:49
through
1:07:50
this
1:07:50
extraordinary
1:07:52
book,
1:07:52
the
1:07:52
Inner
1:07:52
Beloved,
1:07:53
through
1:07:53
this
1:07:54
culmination
1:07:54
of
1:07:54
intimacy.
1:07:56
It's
1:07:56
been
1:07:56
a
1:07:57
remarkable
1:07:57
journey.
1:07:58
And
1:07:59
as,
1:07:59
as
1:08:00
I
1:08:00
said,
1:08:00
every
1:08:01
time
1:08:01
I
1:08:01
think
1:08:01
you've
1:08:02
taken
1:08:02
us
1:08:02
to
1:08:03
the.
1:08:03
Oh,
1:08:03
this
1:08:04
is
1:08:04
the
1:08:05
final
1:08:05
recognition.
1:08:06
It's
1:08:06
like
1:08:06
there's
1:08:07
another.
1:08:07
It
1:08:07
gets
1:08:08
deeper,
1:08:08
it
1:08:08
gets
1:08:09
deeper.
1:08:09
It's
1:08:09
like,
1:08:10
seriously,
1:08:13
I
1:08:13
mean,
1:08:13
the
1:08:14
book
1:08:14
goes
1:08:14
in
1:08:14
sort
1:08:15
of
1:08:15
some
1:08:15
kind
1:08:15
of
1:08:16
detail
1:08:16
that
1:08:17
it's
1:08:17
hard
1:08:17
to
1:08:17
find
1:08:18
other
1:08:18
places
1:08:18
because
1:08:19
I
1:08:19
wanted
1:08:19
to
1:08:19
put
1:08:19
it
1:08:20
all
1:08:20
there
1:08:20
together.
1:08:21
Yeah.
1:08:22
You
1:08:22
know,
1:08:23
everything
1:08:23
that
1:08:24
is
1:08:24
really
1:08:25
relevant
1:08:26
from
1:08:26
the
1:08:26
way,
1:08:26
the
1:08:27
beginning,
1:08:27
the
1:08:27
path,
1:08:28
and
1:08:28
then
1:08:28
the
1:08:29
culmination
1:08:30
of
1:08:30
the
1:08:30
path,
1:08:30
and
1:08:31
then
1:08:31
the
1:08:32
integration
1:08:33
comes
1:08:33
out
1:08:33
of
1:08:33
that
1:08:34
culmination,
1:08:35
which
1:08:35
is
1:08:35
coming
1:08:36
back
1:08:36
to
1:08:36
what's
1:08:37
called
1:08:37
the
1:08:37
unity
1:08:38
of
1:08:38
reality.
1:08:39
Nandua
1:08:41
from
1:08:42
the
1:08:42
way
1:08:43
through
1:08:44
the
1:08:44
eye
1:08:44
of
1:08:44
the
1:08:44
heart.
1:08:45
Yeah.
1:08:45
And
1:08:46
this
1:08:46
alone
1:08:47
is
1:08:47
beautiful.
1:08:47
And
1:08:47
this,
1:08:48
of
1:08:48
course,
1:08:48
is
1:08:48
the
1:08:49
culmination
1:08:49
of
1:08:49
your
1:08:50
trilogy
1:08:50
that
1:08:51
you
1:08:51
start
1:08:52
off
1:08:52
with
1:08:53
the
1:08:54
usual
1:08:54
ideas
1:08:55
about
1:08:55
love
1:08:55
and
1:08:56
experiences
1:08:56
of
1:08:57
it,
1:08:57
and
1:08:58
successively
1:08:59
work
1:08:59
through
1:09:00
to
1:09:00
the
1:09:01
non
1:09:01
Dual
1:09:01
Love,
1:09:03
which
1:09:03
is
1:09:03
the
1:09:03
title
1:09:04
of
1:09:04
the
1:09:04
second
1:09:04
book,
1:09:05
and
1:09:06
finally
1:09:06
to
1:09:07
the
1:09:07
Inner
1:09:07
Beloved.
1:09:08
It's
1:09:08
just.
1:09:09
The
1:09:09
trilogy
1:09:10
is
1:09:10
just
1:09:10
a
1:09:10
magnitude
1:09:11
of
1:09:11
force
1:09:12
of
1:09:12
the
1:09:13
path
1:09:13
of
1:09:14
love
1:09:14
to
1:09:14
ultimate
1:09:15
depths.
1:09:16
Well,
1:09:17
hopefully
1:09:18
some
1:09:19
of
1:09:19
our
1:09:19
listeners
1:09:20
will
1:09:20
get
1:09:21
some
1:09:21
whiff
1:09:21
of
1:09:22
that
1:09:22
or
1:09:23
just
1:09:24
some
1:09:24
experiential
1:09:25
whiff.
1:09:25
I've
1:09:26
got.
1:09:26
I've
1:09:26
gotten
1:09:26
a
1:09:26
couple
1:09:26
of
1:09:27
whiffs
1:09:27
myself,
1:09:27
Hamid,
1:09:28
so
1:09:28
thank
1:09:28
you.
1:09:29
You've
1:09:29
been
1:09:29
getting
1:09:29
lots
1:09:30
of
1:09:30
whiffs,
1:09:31
right?
1:09:33
And
1:09:33
yes,
1:09:33
listeners
1:09:34
have.
1:09:34
I
1:09:35
just
1:09:36
completed
1:09:36
a
1:09:36
two
1:09:37
month
1:09:37
meditation
1:09:38
retreat
1:09:38
at
1:09:38
Spirit
1:09:39
Rock
1:09:39
and
1:09:40
a
1:09:40
number
1:09:40
of
1:09:40
people
1:09:41
approached
1:09:41
me
1:09:41
saying
1:09:42
how
1:09:42
valuable
1:09:43
they'd
1:09:43
found
1:09:43
these
1:09:43
dialogues.
1:09:44
So.
1:09:45
So
1:09:45
people
1:09:45
getting
1:09:46
whips
1:09:46
and
1:09:47
more,
1:09:47
I
1:09:47
think.
1:09:48
Yeah.
1:09:48
And
1:09:48
that's
1:09:49
the
1:09:49
idea.
1:09:49
Well,
1:09:50
that's
1:09:50
why
1:09:50
we're
1:09:50
doing
1:09:50
this.
1:09:51
And
1:09:51
we
1:09:51
enjoy
1:09:52
it,
1:09:53
but
1:09:53
it's
1:09:54
all
1:09:54
for
1:09:55
many
1:09:55
others
1:09:56
to
1:09:56
enjoy
1:09:56
it.
1:09:57
Indeed.
1:09:58
And
1:09:58
there
1:09:58
are
1:09:58
many
1:09:59
others.
1:09:59
It
1:09:59
seems
1:10:00
like
1:10:00
there
1:10:00
are
1:10:01
those
1:10:01
kind.
1:10:02
Of
1:10:02
ways
1:10:03
of
1:10:03
experiencing,
1:10:04
you
1:10:04
know.
1:10:04
Yeah,
1:10:05
yeah.
1:10:06
Amit,
1:10:06
is
1:10:07
there
1:10:07
anything
1:10:07
else
1:10:07
you'd
1:10:08
like
1:10:08
to
1:10:08
add?
1:10:09
I
1:10:09
think
1:10:09
you've
1:10:10
done
1:10:10
a
1:10:10
good
1:10:10
job.
1:10:10
You've
1:10:11
done
1:10:11
a
1:10:11
very
1:10:11
good
1:10:11
job,
1:10:12
you
1:10:12
know,
1:10:14
looking
1:10:14
at
1:10:14
things
1:10:14
and
1:10:15
bringing
1:10:16
up
1:10:16
all
1:10:16
the
1:10:17
things
1:10:17
I
1:10:17
forgot
1:10:18
to
1:10:18
think
1:10:18
about,
1:10:22
you
1:10:22
know,
1:10:23
the
1:10:23
book
1:10:23
come
1:10:23
from
1:10:24
a
1:10:24
teaching
1:10:24
that
1:10:24
I
1:10:25
taught
1:10:25
in
1:10:25
the
1:10:25
90s,
1:10:26
you
1:10:26
know.
1:10:27
Wow.
1:10:27
I
1:10:28
have
1:10:28
to
1:10:28
sort
1:10:28
of
1:10:28
go
1:10:29
back
1:10:29
and
1:10:29
read
1:10:29
it
1:10:29
to
1:10:29
know.
1:10:30
Oh,
1:10:30
God
1:10:30
said
1:10:30
that.
1:10:32
Oh,
1:10:32
that
1:10:33
was
1:10:33
pretty
1:10:33
smart.
1:10:33
Yeah,
1:10:35
I
1:10:36
read
1:10:36
it.
1:10:36
I
1:10:36
learned
1:10:37
from
1:10:37
it,
1:10:37
too.
1:10:39
Wonderful.
1:10:40
Well,
1:10:40
amid
1:10:41
this,
1:10:41
as
1:10:41
usual,
1:10:42
has
1:10:42
been
1:10:43
a
1:10:43
priceless
1:10:44
gift
1:10:45
to
1:10:46
us
1:10:46
of
1:10:46
John
1:10:47
and
1:10:47
Me,
1:10:47
of
1:10:47
course,
1:10:48
but
1:10:48
much
1:10:49
more
1:10:49
importantly
1:10:50
to
1:10:50
the
1:10:50
growing
1:10:51
audience
1:10:52
that
1:10:52
this
1:10:52
series
1:10:53
is
1:10:53
appealing
1:10:54
to
1:10:54
and
1:10:54
touching.
1:10:56
And
1:10:57
it's
1:10:57
just
1:10:57
a
1:10:57
priceless
1:10:58
gift
1:10:58
to
1:10:58
have
1:10:59
you
1:10:59
not
1:10:59
only
1:10:59
have
1:11:00
created,
1:11:00
you
1:11:01
know,
1:11:01
or
1:11:01
been
1:11:01
the
1:11:02
vehicle
1:11:02
for
1:11:02
these
1:11:03
books,
1:11:03
but
1:11:04
also
1:11:04
to
1:11:05
give
1:11:05
an
1:11:05
oral
1:11:05
overview,
1:11:07
which
1:11:07
what
1:11:07
I'm
1:11:08
hearing
1:11:08
from
1:11:08
people
1:11:09
goes
1:11:09
in.
1:11:09
In
1:11:10
a
1:11:10
different
1:11:10
way
1:11:10
for
1:11:11
people.
1:11:11
And
1:11:12
for
1:11:12
some
1:11:12
people
1:11:12
have
1:11:13
told
1:11:13
me
1:11:13
that
1:11:14
the
1:11:14
dialogues
1:11:14
have
1:11:15
opened
1:11:15
up
1:11:15
the
1:11:16
topics,
1:11:16
and
1:11:16
then
1:11:17
they've
1:11:17
gone
1:11:17
back
1:11:17
to
1:11:18
the
1:11:18
books,
1:11:18
and
1:11:18
it's
1:11:19
just
1:11:19
been
1:11:20
a
1:11:20
very
1:11:20
different
1:11:20
experience.
1:11:21
So
1:11:22
you've
1:11:22
given
1:11:22
us
1:11:22
all
1:11:23
the
1:11:23
gift.
1:11:24
Priceless
1:11:24
gift
1:11:25
to
1:11:25
me.
1:11:25
Thank
1:11:25
you
1:11:26
so
1:11:26
very
1:11:26
much.
1:11:27
I'm
1:11:28
feeling
1:11:28
our
1:11:28
discussion
1:11:30
actually
1:11:30
bringing
1:11:31
out
1:11:31
and
1:11:31
pervaded
1:11:32
by
1:11:33
the
1:11:33
kind
1:11:34
of
1:11:34
sweetness
1:11:34
and
1:11:35
richness
1:11:35
of
1:11:35
love.
1:11:36
Yeah,
1:11:37
he
1:11:37
talks
1:11:38
love
1:11:38
for
1:11:38
love
1:11:39
emerges
1:11:40
the
1:11:41
heart.
1:11:42
Even
1:11:43
I,
1:11:43
a
1:11:43
very
1:11:43
cerebral
1:11:44
type,
1:11:44
feel
1:11:44
it
1:11:45
and
1:11:45
needs
1:11:45
this
1:11:46
hope.
1:11:47
Yeah,
1:11:47
yeah,
1:11:48
you're
1:11:49
a
1:11:49
heartfelt
1:11:49
person.
1:11:50
Now.
1:11:52
He
1:11:53
is.
1:11:54
There's
1:11:55
hope
1:11:55
for
1:11:55
us
1:11:55
all.
1:11:57
Well,
1:11:58
thank
1:11:58
you
1:11:58
so
1:11:58
much.
1:11:59
Deeply
1:11:59
appreciate.
1:12:00
Until
1:12:01
next
1:12:01
time.
1:12:02
Yes,
1:12:03
yes.
1:12:04
Good
1:12:05
voyaging,
1:12:06
everybody.
1:12:07
Yes.
1:12:07
I
1:12:07
mean,
1:12:08
thank
1:12:08
you
1:12:08
so
1:12:08
much.
1:12:09
May
1:12:09
you
1:12:09
heal
1:12:09
quickly
1:12:10
and
1:12:11
we'll
1:12:11
look
1:12:11
forward
1:12:11
to.
1:12:12
And
1:12:12
may.
1:12:13
May
1:12:13
everyone
1:12:13
get
1:12:14
whiffs
1:12:14
from
1:12:14
this.
1:12:15
So
1:12:15
if
1:12:15
you're
1:12:16
whiffing,
1:12:16
that's
1:12:16
a
1:12:16
good
1:12:16
thing.
1:12:17
Yeah,
1:12:18
getting
1:12:18
a
1:12:18
whiff
1:12:19
is
1:12:19
a
1:12:19
very
1:12:19
good
1:12:19
thing
1:12:20
that
1:12:20
might
1:12:20
get.
1:12:21
Get
1:12:21
us
1:12:21
back
1:12:22
into
1:12:22
the
1:12:22
book
1:12:22
to
1:12:23
explore
1:12:23
it
1:12:23
more
1:12:24
deeply
1:12:24
the
1:12:24
way
1:12:24
John,
1:12:25
you
1:12:25
have
1:12:25
been
1:12:26
exploring.
1:12:27
And
1:12:27
they.
1:12:28
Amen.
1:12:28
Okay,
1:12:29
see
1:12:29
you
1:12:29
next
1:12:29
time.
1:12:30
Thanks
1:12:30
so
1:12:30
much.
1:12:31
Hamid,
1:12:32
thank
1:12:32
you
1:12:32
very
1:12:32
much
1:12:33
for
1:12:33
being
1:12:33
a
1:12:34
part
1:12:34
of
1:12:34
this
1:12:34
conversation.
1:12:35
We
1:12:35
hope
1:12:35
that
1:12:36
you
1:12:36
were
1:12:36
moved,
1:12:36
as
1:12:37
we
1:12:37
are
1:12:37
moved,
1:12:38
being
1:12:38
part
1:12:38
of
1:12:38
it
1:12:38
ourselves.
1:12:39
We'd
1:12:40
also
1:12:40
like
1:12:40
to
1:12:40
say
1:12:40
that
1:12:41
this
1:12:41
is
1:12:41
being
1:12:41
funded
1:12:42
by
1:12:42
Roger
1:12:43
and
1:12:43
myself.
1:12:43
It
1:12:43
comes
1:12:43
out
1:12:43
of
1:12:44
our
1:12:44
pockets.
1:12:44
So
1:12:44
if
1:12:45
you
1:12:45
would
1:12:45
like
1:12:45
to
1:12:45
help
1:12:45
us
1:12:46
to.
1:12:46
Mainly
1:12:47
to
1:12:47
get
1:12:47
this
1:12:47
podcast
1:12:48
out
1:12:48
to
1:12:48
more
1:12:49
people
1:12:49
because
1:12:49
the
1:12:49
bigger
1:12:50
audience
1:12:50
have.
1:12:50
Which
1:12:50
is
1:12:51
steadily
1:12:51
growing,
1:12:51
but
1:12:51
the
1:12:52
more
1:12:52
people
1:12:52
we
1:12:52
can
1:12:52
reach
1:12:53
in,
1:12:53
the
1:12:53
more
1:12:53
marketing
1:12:54
we
1:12:54
can
1:12:54
do,
1:12:54
the
1:12:55
more
1:12:55
positive
1:12:55
effect
1:12:56
we
1:12:56
can
1:12:56
have
1:12:56
on
1:12:56
the
1:12:56
world.
1:12:57
So
1:12:57
we've
1:12:57
done
1:12:57
that
1:12:58
a
1:12:58
couple
1:12:58
of
1:12:58
ways.
1:12:58
But
1:12:58
we'd
1:12:59
like
1:12:59
you
1:12:59
to
1:12:59
buy
1:12:59
us
1:13:00
a
1:13:00
cup
1:13:00
of
1:13:00
coffee.
1:13:01
Very
1:13:01
simple.
1:13:01
And
1:13:01
I
1:13:01
do
1:13:02
that
1:13:02
with
1:13:02
podcasts
1:13:03
that
1:13:03
I
1:13:04
support,
1:13:04
and
1:13:04
I
1:13:05
find
1:13:05
it's
1:13:05
very
1:13:05
satisfying.
1:13:06
So
1:13:06
thank
1:13:07
you
1:13:07
for
1:13:07
your
1:13:07
help.
1:13:07
Thank
1:13:08
you
1:13:08
for
1:13:08
your
1:13:08
presence
1:13:09
and
1:13:09
thank
1:13:09
you
1:13:09
for
1:13:09
all
1:13:10
you
1:13:10
are
1:13:10
and
1:13:10
all
1:13:11
you
1:13:11
do.
1:13:11
We
1:13:11
love
1:13:11
you,.
1:13:19
Sam.