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Bonus Patreon Release: Third Eye! With Alan White and Darrell Taylor! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

0:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Grey Malkin Lane Patreon channel.
0:02
[SPEAKER_02]: The theme I'm just on the show in December is eyeballs and eyeball horror.
0:07
[SPEAKER_02]: We're analyzing characters that are kind of great, but also like, woo, there's some creepy stuff here.
0:12
[SPEAKER_02]: The the best one of these characters, the one that's the least creepy and the most cool is the one we're going to talk about today, which is the character third eye.
0:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I am thrilled to be having my friends Darlin Allen joining me again.
0:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Darlin Allen, I have been with me for the Gideon episode.
0:26
[SPEAKER_02]: and then for the accroyer episode and boy do we have different themes each time?
0:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we do, yes, we do.
0:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me have you both introduce yourselves to our listeners and tell us a little about you, your name and pronouns.
0:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And have you ever, uh, Astroly projected?
0:42
[SPEAKER_02]: That's my intro question for you both today.
0:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's begin with Alan White.
0:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, Alan.
0:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back.
0:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, that's me, Alan White.
0:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And my pronouns are he, him.
0:51
[SPEAKER_03]: New York City base born not raised, but returned and now deep in so like Chad am a therapist in my day life Right and outside of that.
1:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just all all out nerd loving comic books for 50 years now.
1:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Have you ever asked really projected Alan not a single time but In my dreams was a matter of you see you did
1:22
[SPEAKER_03]: as a matter of fact and there are times in my dreams that I think I have gone places and I remembered in therapy not performing it but getting it that I did have a dream that that I went back to a place that I needed to go and it could have been an after-projection for it as far as I know because it was a real it is a real place and when I was talking about it the emotions came so it had to have been like in touch with reality and not just the dripping alone.
1:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you doing it?
1:53
[SPEAKER_00]: He, him.
1:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been on before.
1:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I work for the new Public Library.
1:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I part of a program called My Library, where we pretty much fill in the gaps of, you know, when funding doesn't work so well with the materials that kids need.
2:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Like every band book that they have, we make sure we can get it to them, all educational stuff, all the, all that rabble and rousing stuff that, you know, we don't want kids to learn about
2:18
[SPEAKER_02]: My graphic novel is getting published this next year, and it has the word gay in the title.
2:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I imagine immediately on this list Oh, for sure, for sure all that evil stuff that you're not supposed to, you know, you know when a mess of these children's minds
2:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell them about history and things that they, you know, that really happened in the world, but I've been a nerd for just as long as Alan just about loving comics and all nerdy sci-fi and everything else you could think of in X-Men since I was a kid that's been my world.
2:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And have I,
2:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I have done that astro projected.
2:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I have.
2:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like there's places I've been or people I've connected to like yesterday.
3:00
[SPEAKER_00]: One of my best friends went to was by my job.
3:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Did not know she was going to be there.
3:05
[SPEAKER_00]: All of a sudden, she's way down the hall.
3:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm way on the other side.
3:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And we just saw each other coming.
3:11
[SPEAKER_00]: She came to the door at the same time that I walked through the door.
3:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And we just
3:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Sawish there, which was so weird, and it's like, wow, I think we connected on the astral plane, and that's why we we caught each other just at that time, but we just connected that way.
3:26
[SPEAKER_00]: But yes, it happens, after all the time.
3:27
[SPEAKER_02]: It is, we've had this recording plan for several weeks, but I'm going to overshare a little bit today, but be careful because I'm feeling a little vulnerable still.
3:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I have pretty significant PTSD in my life from my very bad childhood.
3:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's been hitting hard in 2025.
3:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been pretty open about it to a certain degree.
3:43
[SPEAKER_02]: But today I did my first ever legit legit like 10 hours ago.
3:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Did my first ever ketamine therapy appointment, which was wild.
3:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I spent two hours fully lost in the astral play.
3:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm gonna share a little bit about that today, but like the fact that we had this recorded It didn't even dawn on me until we started art.
4:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, oh, oh, that happened today Like I'm just I'm still kind of pulling out of it a little bit.
4:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know So we're gonna we're gonna begin with the idea of ask for projection itself ask for projection We're gonna we're by the way everybody.
4:14
[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about third eye from us from the same or two than the exiles we'll get there
4:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Take care, you're kids, that's what they're at, I feel.
4:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Take care, you're kids.
4:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So the third eye is like, wouldn't that like, third eye appears on your forehead and blinks, right?
4:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like the, it's like the eye on the Hocus-Pocus book or like, when Dr.
4:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Strange manifests the eye of Agamado on his forehead.
4:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Astral projection refers to the idea of if I'm getting my concepts right, and it may change based on your mythology, your religion, your life experience.
4:42
[SPEAKER_02]: First of the idea of the consciousness, where the astral body, not your spiritual body, but your astral body, leaving your physical body to travel through non-physical planes of existence.
4:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of ancient spiritual, even occult traditional stuff in Hinduism, theosophy, Western esotericism, but the concept became a recurring motif in 20th century fiction.
5:06
[SPEAKER_02]: detective stories and fantasy media, well back into the 1910s and even beforehand.
5:12
[SPEAKER_02]: When you start looking at the works of HP Lovecraft or Alistair Crowley, even Dr.
5:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Strange Comics, but anytime we go to certain spaces, we see this very clearly referenced.
5:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Early X-Men, for those of you that have followed my show from back at the beginning, we have conversations in one of the very first episodes about Xavier's spirit leaving his body, but also Magneto's spirit leaving his body.
5:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Magneto Asteroly projects they meet on the Astral plane in one of the earliest X-Men issues.
5:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Magneto Asteroly projects his entire spirit into Atlantis, like he swims to the bottom of the ocean as a spirit and is like watching
5:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, communicates with him and pops back up to the surface and we're like, what the hell?
5:52
[SPEAKER_02]: That's never been explained.
5:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Ever.
5:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
5:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Third eye.
5:56
[SPEAKER_02]: The third eye more traditionally is associated with the pineal gland, or if you go to Hindu or Buddhist philosophy, the Aachenachakra, it represents heightened perception and spiritual insight.
6:07
[SPEAKER_02]: If you ever do meditation and you close your eyes, if you try to center both of your eyes, kind of over the bridge of your nose, there's a kind of a creation of energy and meditation
6:17
[SPEAKER_02]: there.
6:18
[SPEAKER_02]: In popular culture for the Western culture at least, it becomes kind of the visual short hand for psychic awakening, awakening or supernatural awareness.
6:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's all kinds of detectives and magicians and supervillains that we use this kind of third eye concept.
6:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Two various effects, either for healing, for investigation, for reading minds, for seeing truth, or for controlling minds, for taking over things.
6:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You look at the evil eye of Saurada, you shift forever,
6:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So toss it a lot your way as we're opening this, but this is deeply rooted and you can get a whole college degree at astral projection.
6:50
[SPEAKER_00]: All the black people and Stephen King novels are people that can connect into the third eye.
6:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they all do.
6:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I make the joke all the time about connecting all the third eye and getting my third eye open and knowing all.
7:06
[SPEAKER_03]: We have the shining.
7:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have the shadow, we share the shadow, so we do.
7:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Astral, by the way, I distinguish this from spiritual before astral refers to like astral bodies.
7:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the word astral means the stars.
7:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So when you go to like biology, there's like the mitotic aster which is star shaped.
7:24
[SPEAKER_02]: But when we go to the theology, it becomes that like super sensitive body that coexist with the human body, but goes on existing after the death of the physical body.
7:34
[SPEAKER_02]: There's, again, we could get really lost in the deepness of those, but astral refers to from the stars, which is an odd thing because you go to like Neil DeGrasse Tyson where we talk about being star stuff, you know, in that that, as it is.
7:45
[SPEAKER_02]: One of your connections, whatever you'd like to share, what are your connections with kind of astral projection, either personally, philosophically, or even in your comic books?
7:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to figure out why they haven't just called it a soul because a lot of times that's what it looks like.
7:59
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the soul of someone that just leaves the body.
8:02
[SPEAKER_03]: But I guess it's the body still lives.
8:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Then it can't be the soul arrest where the soul leaves the body.
8:06
[SPEAKER_03]: The body dies, right?
8:07
[SPEAKER_03]: That's supposed to be not all the time of the soul.
8:10
[SPEAKER_03]: But a lot of times it looks like to me that they have control over their soul in some way calling it an astral projection and still are able for their body to live.
8:20
[SPEAKER_03]: But I know that in early Dr.
8:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Strange, it was said that if he left his body long enough and he couldn't get back to it, then the body would die.
8:28
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that's what keeps making me think this thing is supposed to be the soul of a person.
8:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, there's just connections, right?
8:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there are people in your lives that you feel connected to.
8:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you can't even explain it.
8:41
[SPEAKER_00]: What that feeling is, like, thinking of my mother would pass, like, years ago.
8:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I still, there are times when all of a sudden you feel connected to them for something.
8:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, even a smell, like a perfume or whatever.
8:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it just, it just comes back to you.
8:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be a memory.
8:55
[SPEAKER_00]: thing, it could be that it just feels comforting, you know, to yourself that and I think that's fine to think of it as they're with you when you need it, right?
9:04
[SPEAKER_00]: You need that little reassurance sometimes when times are rough, especially now.
9:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So if I'm going to deepen to my origins, as a white kid who grew up Mormon, I understand my upbringing is a very different woman.
9:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I do have the religious, the strict religious kind of inculturation that I've put myself in.
9:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't born into it, but I put myself in and I had to rip myself out of it.
9:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm actually very specifically X-Mormon at this point, adamantly X-Mormon.
9:32
[SPEAKER_02]: But growing up, I was taught a lot about my origins.
9:36
[SPEAKER_02]: which Mormonism kind of takes things from everywhere else.
9:39
[SPEAKER_02]: We're like, there's this whole thing they call the plan of salvation.
9:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So like everyone existed a spirits before birth and then you're born into a body.
9:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And after you leave your body, like all of these spirits like inhabit the earth around you, but you're incapable of seeing them.
9:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And that can be really peaceful.
9:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the tortured spirits are in prison and the like happy Jesus spirits are like trying to help everybody.
10:00
[SPEAKER_02]: But also all of the spirits that like chose to follow the devil are like trying to tempt you all the time.
10:04
[SPEAKER_02]: There's this like, so you get like Dr.
10:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Strange comics where he can like see all the monsters that are just all around everywhere always and then like that one spirit of unrest that's around like this kind of sits deep in my soul in an odd way but I also very much believe I'm a very spiritual kind of atheistic person I've had friends that have died that I have felt with me right like I have heard people speak to me and I do grief and loss work.
10:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I hear people speak about this kind of thing all the time
10:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's layer this with one more thing in a popular culture as well, although it also lies deep in traditional belief systems is what we call the astral plane, which is the realm in which the spirits meet, right?
10:41
[SPEAKER_02]: We see in three dimensions.
10:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if this is the seventh or eighth dimension, but if you shift your consciousness to a particular way, you can see the astral realm itself where all the spirits engage.
10:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And this makes me think of like Steve Ditko drying Dr.
10:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Strange with all the crazy cosmic pathways, and then there be like this giant like alien slug living on a planet and a hook a caterpillar over there.
11:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd been Franklin's ghost is floating around like it's crazy.
11:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I used to think you know when you see those when you when you young or something and you see these little speck over your eyes I used to think that that was like is that like spirits for another dimension or something and then come to find out It's your blood.
11:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It's your white blood cells going through your eyes and you just notice that
11:23
[SPEAKER_00]: and see them.
11:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But it just makes you feel like special.
11:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Like right here, it makes you feel like you're connected to something much bigger than yourself.
11:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes when you think about it, like when you think about things or you think you hear something or feel something and it's nothing there or you don't know.
11:41
[SPEAKER_00]: What it is that you feel connected to.
11:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And I always love comics like that.
11:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Like stories like that.
11:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Black Panther, for example, like I think a lot of people connected to that, like feeling like you're connected to your ancestors.
11:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Like African culture, we always talk about that.
11:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, well, when a Panther or more recently has like the city of the dead, underneath the sun, yeah.
12:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's something like even blacks from the south.
12:04
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk a lot about your ancestors, like channeling your ancestors, like thinking about, you know, what was passed down to you and kind of feeling like there's a community
12:16
[SPEAKER_00]: with you at all times, even when you think you're alone, you're really not.
12:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, it's a comfort.
12:22
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a sense of comfort with that.
12:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love stories.
12:25
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a movie that it did badly in the theaters, but it's called Ad Thomas, where if you're a Star Trek fan of the movies, Anton Nielsen, who...
12:34
[SPEAKER_00]: passed away.
12:35
[SPEAKER_00]: He was a kid that was born with the ability to see the spirits and when someone's about to die, he can see the spirits coming and waiting for that person to die.
12:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But they made it like a quirky comedy in a way and he's trying to save people as it goes.
12:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean if you like the sixth sense or you like the good play.
12:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, the good play.
12:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, the good play.
12:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is entertaining the kind of think of of that those kind of stories like Scatman brothers when he's trying to warn he's like, why do people I'm trying to save you?
13:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I know something bad is happening.
13:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't get you out of here.
13:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got so any thoughts because of the I call it these days a cult that I was in, but it really is a Christian book.
13:16
[SPEAKER_03]: religion, but really narrow, narrowly narrowly focused in Pentecost, the kind of branch of Christianity Protestantism called Pentecost.
13:25
[SPEAKER_03]: And in Pentecost, it defining characteristic is that it believes in signs and wonders so that if you're, if you're saved, you can access the godly powers that the Holy Spirit would give you, which includes speaking at tongues and laying hands on people to get them healed.
13:41
[SPEAKER_03]: And I went into that religion at 16 and I didn't come out until I was 32, 33, 34.
13:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm ready to disclose this stuff.
13:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And for that amount of time, I lived in a reality where I believe in a world view that there's a God for sure.
13:58
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a Holy Spirit for sure that will possess your body, will have you speak in tongues and prophesied for the future or for the people that are in the church that you're talking to to give them guidance and direction or warning and that would be a supernatural gift that I don't know what you do to qualify for that, but if you get it you you just feel highly blessed and also laying hands on people to heal their bodies and also the cast demonic spirits out of them.
14:24
[SPEAKER_03]: The origin of these demons, we take it from, we took it from the Bible, believing that they were fallen angels, and that they existed.
14:32
[SPEAKER_03]: After I started to get into my 20s, amid 20, I had to start asking questions.
14:37
[SPEAKER_03]: So, in this discussion for this podcast and this idea of astral planes, I am an agnostic now.
14:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Because the questions that I asked was, where are they?
14:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Where are the demon?
14:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Where are the angels?
14:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Where is heaven?
14:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Where are all this stuff?
14:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And when my pastor used to get in the pulpit and take out these little articles that was written by who only knows where and printed them up on some kind of roller in their barn, somewhere in the Midwest and then distributed them through churches,
15:06
[SPEAKER_03]: this little information like somebody drilled a hole in the earth and they put a microphone down in it and they heard the souls and hell screaming and would bring that to the pulpit like it was the Bible.
15:18
[SPEAKER_03]: I would sit there like you can't feed a microphone into the earth's crust and it's survived.
15:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And if it did, it wouldn't pick up the souls, the sounds of people's souls making noises.
15:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, what are we doing?
15:29
[SPEAKER_03]: What are we talking about?
15:31
[SPEAKER_03]: And then it just kind of unfolded like some of this stuff is just not making any sense to me anymore.
15:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not, this doesn't feel right anymore.
15:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not, I'm not happy with this belief system anymore.
15:41
[SPEAKER_03]: And now I'm bringing all of my questions and all of my doubts and all of my misunderstandings into my,
15:48
[SPEAKER_03]: present life, and if it comes to, is there an astro plane?
15:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Are there astral projections?
15:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Are there those things?
15:54
[SPEAKER_03]: I also don't know.
15:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I also don't know if that's true.
15:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to channel two recent experiences.
15:58
[SPEAKER_02]: The first one I just referenced, but I'm going to step back a couple of days.
16:01
[SPEAKER_02]: We're recording this in early November, everybody.
16:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I just spent Halloween in San Francisco with my husband and my youngest son.
16:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, I don't know if I've announced this on the show.
16:12
[SPEAKER_02]: My youngest kid was using they then pronouns for a long time.
16:14
[SPEAKER_02]: We're officially at he hit.
16:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I have said that that I just wanted to share for a long term listeners.
16:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, my son, I don't use their names on the show, obviously.
16:20
[SPEAKER_02]: But we took a dose tour one night where it was very hokey.
16:24
[SPEAKER_02]: But they're walking us around the city with like little, you know, energy readers, like we're little mini Ghostbusters telling stories.
16:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, do you see that window up there in 1872?
16:33
[SPEAKER_02]: A woman reported she saw a face in that window.
16:35
[SPEAKER_02]: That was the undead husband deferred.
16:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm like, okay, these are,
16:40
[SPEAKER_02]: But the next night on Halloween night, and it wasn't as creepy as I thought, but we spent the evening at Alcatraz.
16:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And rewind several years.
16:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I went to New Orleans once, and I had a hongen, read my coconut shells, and the only thing that stood with me was the first thing this person said to me, well, after they shook my shells, and like read my reading for whatever.
17:00
[SPEAKER_02]: They said, they said, you are the kind of person that when you walk into a place, you can sense the history of what's happened there, which I absolutely agree with.
17:08
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the thing that I experience in my day to day life, and it's part of what makes me a great therapist, I think.
17:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But now, fast forward to today, I did kind of mean therapy today.
17:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like I was spiraling.
17:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you know those scenes in like gravity where like the spaceship is like a little unhinged and it just starts like spiraling through space?
17:24
[SPEAKER_02]: But have moments where I was like just spiraling.
17:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And like images of like my life and my past were like spinning by me.
17:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it would like slow down and like I descend way down deep and then I'd come back out.
17:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there was a lot of emotional processing and I think I'm going to be figuring it out for a few days.
17:40
[SPEAKER_02]: But I immediately, as I was prepping for the show tonight, started thinking about Professor X and Jean Gray and Emma Frost and Siloc and the Shadow King and these like stories where people get lost in these rooms, it's a full playable land at our X-Men Cup.
17:55
[SPEAKER_02]: which is where we'll bring it back to where we're at today.
17:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Xavier, you're going into the astral plane and the danger that that represents.
18:01
[SPEAKER_02]: People craft the armor around them and they have to use their control.
18:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, if you think of that show Legion about David Haller, like there's a lot of scenes about that, like learning how to control me, like I rule me and like the worlds he builds around himself.
18:16
[SPEAKER_02]: All of that is going to be centered in the conversations we're about to have.
18:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I did drops for the first time, like the little weed drops and the first time I did it.
18:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt like I was sinking, like I felt like my body was completely immersed and I've never done anything like I've never smoked weed ever.
18:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I've lived the first time in my
18:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Can't tell me you grew up in 40s and New York City and you know, I just never did it.
18:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't call it.
18:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't fall into it I just never did it and peer brush didn't work on me I just was like I if I want to do it.
18:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to do it, all right, but I did those I did those straps and I Was just gone like I just felt my body just
18:54
[SPEAKER_00]: going into the ground, sinking completely into the, the innermost core of the earth.
19:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think I was able, I couldn't move my body.
19:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt heavy.
19:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just stuck in my backyard trapped in my, in my, in my lounge chair until it wore off a little bit.
19:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I was able to get up and I'm like, what the hell did I take?
19:15
[SPEAKER_00]: What did they give me?
19:16
[SPEAKER_00]: What happened?
19:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm too old to be going through this.
19:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not supposed to be going through this now I should have did this crap when I was younger and then fast forward five minutes to a girl said I wouldn't I get to do it again.
19:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes
19:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
19:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It does relax you though.
19:31
[SPEAKER_00]: It really does.
19:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, my, my agnosticism has got me just standing on the outside looking, but I am listening to everyone's account.
19:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not doubting anyone anymore.
19:40
[SPEAKER_03]: In, in that tiny little religion, it was about our way is the right way.
19:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Our world view and structure is the only way and everybody else is lying and deceiving.
19:49
[SPEAKER_03]: So I also threw that out with, with their world view.
19:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And because I don't, that also sounds like the Mormons.
19:56
[SPEAKER_03]: right?
19:57
[SPEAKER_03]: And because I know that I don't know anymore, then I can't tell anybody that their experience is not true.
20:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm listening.
20:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I am listening to everybody.
20:05
[SPEAKER_03]: And the only thing that I think may be that I may have personally experienced outside of that religion and that spiritual concept is deja vu.
20:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I feel like deja vu is precognitive dream.
20:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Because there would be
20:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And absolutely remember the dream that led me to feeling what I was feeling in the moment days before or maybe weeks before having the dream of the setting the place and then when the deja vu hit it would be like see this is where you dream that's why you feel like this you were here before in the dream a couple of nights ago that's the only thing that I've got for outside of the religious framework for what my spirit might have been doing.
20:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I don't know if going back to just kind of sociological thinking because that's my my day job right like we all have this little universe that exists inside of us and we all perceive it in our own way but when we share those experiences there's enough commonalities and it may all just be our brain or maybe we got something
21:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
21:02
[SPEAKER_02]: There's whole fields of study around this, which is going to bring us to the Cracola era books, Abertooth by Victor Laval, who is a brilliant writer.
21:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I've almost, almost got to interview Victor a couple of times.
21:12
[SPEAKER_02]: It fell through both times.
21:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, enormous fan.
21:15
[SPEAKER_02]: The Saberooth series, which is crazy to say out loud, because I fucking hate Saberooth.
21:19
[SPEAKER_02]: But thank you.
21:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
21:22
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been, we've been introducing Sabertooth on meshow recently for those with taking a piece a lot.
21:26
[SPEAKER_02]: But Victor's about Sabertooth series challenges ideas related to redemption and community and society, and like it's, it's really, really wonderful.
21:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if either of you are acquainted with Victor, Laval, or his works, you know, him at all.
21:40
[SPEAKER_03]: No, only through this, only through the Sabertooth series and the exile.
21:44
[SPEAKER_02]: But then we have a librarian in the room.
21:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know what it was that the thing with the way that Victor deals with these characters and these voices Whicrakoa in terms of it's not all nice right like a co is not all perfect.
21:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the greatest place like there are problems there cracks
22:02
[SPEAKER_00]: people fall through the crack and I like how he goes through and right how I don't care what society you're making.
22:10
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't think about or protect everyone not just the you know the A level mutants but if you forget all of the the Z levels that are just you know they don't really have uh uh
22:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Superpowers that are, you know, they're not wearing suits and fighting bad guys and stuff But they're just people that just want to live like your society's gonna fail It's going to fail when when you do that when you fail them It eventually will break down in that and I thought that that was a really cool way to to show the cracks of Krakow Even though it was it looked like a freaking cool society to be in
22:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But even more than that, he is challenging the concept of how we define what it means to fail.
22:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And as a person of color, like he gets it, like as a personal color when we're not seen, when we feel left behind, when we feel left out, even in groups of color, even in any kind of group.
23:02
[SPEAKER_00]: We tend to forget other people too, other people are forgotten also in that group, right?
23:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it happens no matter what, and it's, and it's so important to catch those that are left behind,
23:15
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been announced below the level is going to be writing Black Panther Intergalactic coming up for Marvel, which I'm just excited about.
23:21
[SPEAKER_02]: For those that are enjoying this conversation, here's an early announcement.
23:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Darlin Allen have done other episodes with me, but in February, the theme on the show is going to be Voodoo.
23:28
[SPEAKER_02]: We're diving into the world of brother Voodoo, and you can already hear how some of these conversations are going to go.
23:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be sensitive indeed, but now we get to go super nerdy.
23:35
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to go deeper.
23:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you, Woody?
23:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Levall has chosen a cast of characters for his book that are steeped in continuity.
23:40
[SPEAKER_02]: He's picked some of the most problematic crazy characters, mixed them all together,
23:43
[SPEAKER_02]: and gives us a brilliant story.
23:45
[SPEAKER_02]: The first Saber Tooth book, along with like Helions and X-Men Red, or my very favorite from the entire Krico era.
23:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a lot of amazing books in this era.
23:55
[SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna jump right in.
23:56
[SPEAKER_02]: House of X-Powers of X.
23:57
[SPEAKER_02]: The X-Men authorize a particular mission.
24:00
[SPEAKER_02]: They've declared a new government.
24:01
[SPEAKER_02]: We're your new gods now.
24:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It says Xavier, Astralian, everyone praying on Earth, right?
24:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And the Saber Tooth kills a human at the end, but they've just passed the law that you can't kill a human.
24:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So he gets tossed in what they call the pit.
24:13
[SPEAKER_02]: There goes a massive sentient island and they're just like letting Krikoa be in charge of what the pit looks like I guess like Cypher's the only one that can communicate with him and so Sabretooth's just kind of left down there and a boy if it was like a catamine trip two hours but like a real long time so Sabretooth here we go
24:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's almost like Kricoa doesn't quite know what to do with Saber Dude.
24:32
[SPEAKER_02]: If we're forming a prison rehabilitation system on the basis of what it takes to rehabilitate Victor Creed, he's starting to get a crazy place.
24:43
[SPEAKER_02]: This kind of makes me think of the final season of the good place.
24:45
[SPEAKER_02]: We're all the characters got to get to live out their lives in the way that they should.
24:49
[SPEAKER_02]: They're figuring it out.
24:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And Saber Dude gets to do that.
24:51
[SPEAKER_02]: The first issue of this series is him having fantasies of like slaughtering the X-Men, and then he gets bored of that.
24:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So now they'll be the world's greatest hunter, and then he gets bored.
25:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Now I'll be a space pirate, and now I'll be the Lord of Hell.
25:03
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a point where early on in the series, a text page posits.
25:06
[SPEAKER_02]: What is prison for?
25:08
[SPEAKER_02]: That seems like a simple question.
25:09
[SPEAKER_02]: The hardest ones usually do.
25:11
[SPEAKER_02]: To punish, to rehabilitate, to alter, the Roman Empire, like the Egyptian built its prisons underground.
25:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Prisoners were chained to walls and left in the dark.
25:18
[SPEAKER_02]: They were either put to death or sentenced to a lifetime of slavery.
25:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Some might have become gladiators, a life that's only seems glamorous when you watch on a television from the luxury of your couch.
25:28
[SPEAKER_02]: The Colosseum, the most famous gladiatorial scene, contains 24 elevator cages, each one operated by eight slaves working a winch.
25:35
[SPEAKER_02]: This is how the lion's bears, wild boars and leopards were safely transported up to the arena floor.
25:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Those lives were better.
25:41
[SPEAKER_02]: The men trained to fight the beasts, or the ones who worked the elevators.
25:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Both were prisoners.
25:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Both were slaves.
25:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Those animals didn't have it too good either.
25:48
[SPEAKER_02]: The spectators weren't all rich.
25:50
[SPEAKER_02]: People traveled from all across the empire, the wealthiest, and the poorest, to cheer, drink, and snack on chickpeas, and to watch the prisoners die.
25:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Over the years, when California found itself plagued with wildfires, prisoners were sent out on crews to combat the flames.
26:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Men, women, and teenage prisoners, can all be sent on such jobs.
26:06
[SPEAKER_02]: for this work, the prisoners are in about $3 a day.
26:09
[SPEAKER_02]: What's prison for?
26:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe the better question is who is prison for?
26:12
[SPEAKER_02]: From down here, let me tell you the answer seems clear.
26:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think this is supposed to be Doug Ramsay's thoughts.
26:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It's certainly Victor Creed is not.
26:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I think this works more in his own eye.
26:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Then one day a new group of captives arrives.
26:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And I could have long conversations about each of them.
26:25
[SPEAKER_02]: The only one I've examined deeply on my show is Necro.
26:27
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a trial of Necro, sing Claire back a while if you want to go.
26:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Necro, sing Claire is an albino black woman who is power is to hate.
26:35
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the more she gets the more she gets strong.
26:40
[SPEAKER_02]: We have Melter who is not the old like masters of evil character from the Avengers.
26:43
[SPEAKER_02]: This is like a kind of an entitled white kid who killed his parents when his powers manifested.
26:48
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got Oya or Adia O'Concoa who is a Nigerian teenager from the five lights.
26:53
[SPEAKER_02]: We have Madison Jeffries who I've caused played on the last couple years.
26:57
[SPEAKER_02]: He is a Canadian guy who can move metal and change himself like project his consciousness into metal basically.
27:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we have a brand new character in a green suit, this is a man of color, his name is Third Eye.
27:07
[SPEAKER_02]: We do not know his real name.
27:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been told there would be no others down here with me, and yet here you are, says Tabor Tooth.
27:14
[SPEAKER_02]: This isn't what you expected to find or what you deserve, but you're right to be scared, because no one is coming to save you.
27:21
[SPEAKER_02]: In issue two, we open with a quote from Frederick Douglas.
27:23
[SPEAKER_02]: It's easier to build strong children than to repair broken men.
27:27
[SPEAKER_02]: A group of individuals faces punishment, kept by the quiet council of Krikoa, the appointed government.
27:32
[SPEAKER_02]: But the council isn't convened, so there's no trial.
27:34
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just Magneto and Professor X, accusing a various group of crimes, and then deciding on their punishment without consultation.
27:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, and Necro broke the second law.
27:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Kill no man, they murdered invaders, who were coming to their country.
27:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Madison Jeffries and Melter were sent because they didn't respect the land.
27:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Madison's crime, he had sex with a robot.
27:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Inger had a baby together, and Melter, who threatened the integrity of the land with his powers and ambitions, but more honestly, Xavier was like, dude, you don't get any power here, the power is mine.
28:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So fuck you.
28:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Third I broke the first law, which will get more on that in just a few minutes.
28:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And yes, three of the characters sent into the pit are black.
28:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Magneto and Xavier are flippant, as if this removal of freedom is simply like a timeout.
28:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Magneto says, say whatever you like, but our laws weren't kept a secret.
28:20
[SPEAKER_02]: The idea that anyone on the island can't follow them is frustrating.
28:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I suggested we toss you all into a volcano, but Charles said that would be spiteful.
28:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I suppose I agree.
28:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Xavier says, I told Eric, we would not be so punitive.
28:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Instead, my hope is that each of you simply needs time to reflect on how important it is that we think and act as one.
28:39
[SPEAKER_02]: All I can do is assure you that you will not be hurt in the pit, fuck you man, think of it like a very dramatic time out.
28:45
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all.
28:46
[SPEAKER_02]: If there's to be a prison on cricola, at least there will be no torture, no pain.
28:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So we jumped to the pit and we see third eye gathering energy into his hands as a massive golden eye glows above his head.
28:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Fear is a noose that binds into its strangles.
29:00
[SPEAKER_02]: He says, I see.
29:01
[SPEAKER_02]: He sees through the allusions of the others fighting to the death with sabretooth.
29:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all it's not really happening, right?
29:07
[SPEAKER_02]: They're all just like attached to Kriko as roots, but in their minds they're being slaughtered over and over again.
29:13
[SPEAKER_02]: The quicker we get to the truth, the better.
29:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Sabretooth quips.
29:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Who is this guy?
29:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Black Columbus?
29:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And third, I says, fine, I'll do it myself.
29:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And I prefer easy Rollins.
29:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, easy Rollins is the world detective who reviewed in the novel Devil in the Blue Dress in 1990.
29:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Later, portrayed by Denzel Washington in the film, there's over a dozen novels about this guy written by Walter Mosley, and they're a ton of fun.
29:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And the truth he reveals, the third I reveals, they are all existing asteroid while plugged into cracoa's root system in an underground cavern.
29:43
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the pit, the real thing, everything else is just illusion.
29:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm hoping the others will want to learn the truth, though in my experience, many people prefer the comforting lie.
29:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I wanted that someone know we're here.
29:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Someone besides the professor in Magneto, but I can't just float, it's easy to get lost.
29:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I need a heading, a port of strong feeling, rage, joy, fear, fear works the best.
30:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It's bright and loud, and the fear in here is not only strong, it's almost got to send to it.
30:08
[SPEAKER_02]: One, I recognize from the pit.
30:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Saber Tooth's smell and nightmare and a memory, both at once.
30:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And he communes with Moll, who is the character from, we talk about him in the opal tenaka episode, for everyone.
30:19
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a, he's a little more luck guy.
30:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, this survived the more luck massacre initially.
30:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And now he's living here.
30:24
[SPEAKER_02]: That does not have impressive powers.
30:26
[SPEAKER_02]: He has dig abilities.
30:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And third, I can feel the fear in Moll's memory of being hunted by Saber Tooth, which gives him an anchor to the ground above.
30:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And suddenly, Moll can see third I.
30:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Moses, who the hell are you?
30:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Third, I says, I'm a man who needs your help.
30:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know you, why would I help you?
30:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you know the man who's hurting us, someone who tried to kill you in that sewer.
30:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I know that piece of shit.
30:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And Mola Christ has spread the word, but no one will really listen.
30:49
[SPEAKER_02]: We jump back to the pit where Xavier and Magneto project a visit to the cells of their inmates in a high security prison where that is not what's happening again.
30:58
[SPEAKER_02]: The Saber Truth wants to break out.
31:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Easy Rollins.
31:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Darrell, do you want to talk to us that easy Rollins?
31:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love, I fell in love with those books growing up.
31:07
[SPEAKER_00]: He even did the lowdown.
31:07
[SPEAKER_00]: He did a couple episodes of the show called the lowdown.
31:11
[SPEAKER_00]: That's on FX right now.
31:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he's still writing and directing and doing stuff.
31:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So that man is incredible.
31:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Thirdized visual is like a black guy had a green suit.
31:22
[SPEAKER_02]: He's very, very fun assuming.
31:25
[SPEAKER_02]: He's put together.
31:25
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got a beard.
31:27
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got a tie.
31:27
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got a green jacket.
31:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Who are you the black clumbo?
31:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Alan, do you want to talk to us about third days of visual?
31:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because I'm glad you mentioned Legion.
31:37
[SPEAKER_03]: When I saw a third eye, I was thinking of the character tolemy in Legion in that Legion series.
31:43
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was wondering, so I did a little research and I didn't see Victor look well's name associated with the Legion series.
31:50
[SPEAKER_03]: But the Legion series had a character black guy in a suit with psychic powers.
31:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's a lot.
31:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, autonomy won't
31:57
[SPEAKER_03]: That's him.
31:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, and but the powers are different.
32:01
[SPEAKER_03]: They're both psychic but the powers are different.
32:03
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know if that is a kind of type psychic Intelligent well put together, man, but I was digging that visual because I liked to tell him he's visual as well just just this put together Black guy kind of in between the cracks not so not loud and bombastic, but not in consequential and taking care of himself
32:22
[SPEAKER_02]: How to be Wallace is a fun character from that series.
32:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a great series.
32:25
[SPEAKER_02]: taught me as a mutant that can manipulate your memories.
32:28
[SPEAKER_02]: If it calls himself like a memory artist, he also has like perfect memory and lead could not people to sleep.
32:33
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do think there's a trope where we'll get there in a minute where with third eye has connections to New Orleans.
32:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So particularly that kind of hard boiled black detective in the jacket, like there's a certain type that kind of represents absolutely.
32:47
[SPEAKER_02]: The redemption arc and the quotes that are used in this book are fascinating.
32:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Alan, do you want to share your thoughts on what is a prison for?
32:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Is the big question asked at the beginning of the book?
32:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, in just in New York alone, having proximity to rocker's island, and the arrest records of people of color throughout the last five decade, it's been a huge conversation about why people get arrested,
33:16
[SPEAKER_03]: If the punishment fits the crime, how do you help rehabilitate people whose lives you have just kind of snatched 20 years out of over 15 years out of from their teenage until they're in their 30s and 40s and put them back out on the street and expect success or expect survival?
33:33
[SPEAKER_03]: So the the whole idea of the prison system it needs to be itself rehabilitated.
33:39
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're going to take them off the street because you want to keep citizens safe, I see that, but they're still human beings you're putting in prison.
33:46
[SPEAKER_03]: So what are you going to do with them there?
33:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you let them go, if ever, do you want them to succeed after their imprisonment or do you not care?
33:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the prison system needs to care.
33:57
[SPEAKER_02]: What is a crime?
33:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Does the crime and the punishment match?
34:02
[SPEAKER_02]: What's the rehabilitation process?
34:03
[SPEAKER_02]: America's prison system is fucked.
34:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the worst in the fucking world.
34:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It's terrible here.
34:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It's worse than any of the third world countries.
34:11
[SPEAKER_02]: It's had our rates are ridiculous.
34:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, we're going to get there in a minute, but I'll go ahead and introduce this here.
34:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Third, I has kind of the trope of what we call a conjure man, which I think in more, you know, voodoo mythology is like the witch doctor who conjures things.
34:25
[SPEAKER_02]: But we think of it as like a con man, right?
34:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he can use his powers to find certain things for money, basically.
34:30
[SPEAKER_02]: But what we're going to learn in issue four in a moment is the reason he got thrown in jail.
34:34
[SPEAKER_02]: The law on Krakowat is make more mutants, and he's like, if we're having a whole bunch of mutants here, and all these kids are just being abandoned, which is the thing we see in the net crawlers.
34:43
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been here for that.
34:44
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been here for that.
34:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Third, I start giving lectures about preventing pregnancies, and then the birth rate drops as a result, because he's educating people, and they send them to the pit for it.
34:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Holy shit, what the fuck?
34:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It may be think of how we're doing now, right?
34:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, the whole thing was a Republican,
34:59
[SPEAKER_00]: where you're not supposed to get abortions, right?
35:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not supposed to do things for birth control.
35:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You're just supposed to have these kids, but we're not gonna give you any support.
35:09
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not gonna support you in any way.
35:10
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't wanna give you any kind of funding to help you.
35:12
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't wanna educate you in how to take care of yourself and therefore take care of a child or whatever.
35:19
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fine to put them out into the world and not supposedly kill them.
35:23
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what they say is,
35:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Getting an abortion, but we don't want to take care of them.
35:28
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't want to help you take care of your children like it It is such a weird thing and it's true like how many times the X-Men have they had children come out of that?
35:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And their parents were horrible or they didn't have support or they were taken off You know, they would killed before they were able to raise them and
35:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And these kids had nothing, like they were more locks.
35:48
[SPEAKER_00]: They're full of, you know, kids that were thrown away.
35:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And they weren't even allowed into the system.
35:54
[SPEAKER_00]: They were just thrown away into another society.
35:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And you wind up making a bunch of, you know, mask is a, you know, a broken child.
36:04
[SPEAKER_00]: He probably was a broken child.
36:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And if he became a torture and an evil person because of it, like it is,
36:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So, while these two old white men are authorizing beast to be in privilege, they're giving Wolverine a full team to assassinate people with.
36:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Because Xavier and Magneto are two white men that have been given second, third, fifth, eight, nine, ten chances, right?
36:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they have done.
36:30
[SPEAKER_00]: They have murdered people in co-blood for the betterment they say.
36:34
[SPEAKER_00]: They have been resurrected in alien bonds.
36:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Resurrected in babies.
36:39
[SPEAKER_00]: put on teams, you know, like, and then they've turned villainy, then they get into villainy all over again.
36:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it is crazy to see Magneto's ass get up there.
36:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And the first time I saw you, you murdered a bunch of people on a, on a summary.
36:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But you just put this in Cricula.
36:55
[SPEAKER_02]: If they are the ones who are empowering beast, beast is responsible for like some societal genocides.
37:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
37:00
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, like we could get lost in all this, but I want to focus a little on thirdized connection to moles specifically like he finds this guy who has been hurt by saber to Yeah, mole.
37:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think is quite a person of color.
37:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that we have much about his ethnic origins understanding he's a mole person.
37:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, like I think that's the thing with mole is like you didn't go looking for cyclops.
37:22
[SPEAKER_00]: He went right or Yeah, so he sees him as a person of value even though he's not the Omega He's one of the Omega mutants and he's talking to him about these things and
37:35
[SPEAKER_00]: like, mole can't even get these people who say they care about mutants, right?
37:40
[SPEAKER_00]: But he can't, they don't even listen to them when he's trying to talk to them about the problems going on with with this society.
37:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's, uh, I just love the, the little conversations, because that's the thing with Third Eye, right?
37:52
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not the power beam.
37:53
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not shooting blasts at people.
37:56
[SPEAKER_00]: His thing is looking at you and knowing who you are and feeling who you are as a person.
38:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Or at a wider level his power is like the astral plane itself.
38:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the expert on the astral plane.
38:08
[SPEAKER_02]: He can enter it and like use it and knows how to get around.
38:12
[SPEAKER_02]: He's supposed to choose if you lost.
38:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and he can see the truth, which is a dangerous thing in itself, right?
38:18
[SPEAKER_02]: He's looking for someone who's been hurt by Saber Tooth.
38:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Secretly, I really wish he had found boom boom instead.
38:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Because third eye appearing before boom boom is a scene that I just want to see.
38:29
[SPEAKER_03]: So, that's the right.
38:30
[SPEAKER_02]: The list is so big, the same excuse, right?
38:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Like these are so many people, like this, these are right there.
38:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, jumping to issue three, the opening quote, a body of man holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody, Thomas Payne.
38:45
[SPEAKER_02]: In the pit, the captives have started planning how to break out.
38:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Third, who looks like he's been covered in mud and vines, if he hears the formal man again.
38:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're starting to interact with the land, right?
38:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, Krico is taking on their forms.
38:55
[SPEAKER_02]: What we're going to learn later is that Krakow is being influenced by the minds that it is interfacing with.
39:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And when Sabre Tuth isn't that mind initially, that's frightening, right?
39:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Moll says, I wondered if you'd show up again.
39:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You look a little different than the last time.
39:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello Moll, I talked to you yesterday, didn't I?
39:09
[SPEAKER_02]: No, you didn't.
39:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been a while, started thinking I dreamed you up.
39:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Time must move different when you're thrown in isolation, says third eye, which is a solitary confinement.
39:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Commentary would be
39:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And also, I've been trying to get the word out about you, but it's tough to keep secrets when the head-honcho can read minds.
39:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Third, I says, how'd you get around that problem?
39:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Took me a while to figure out the trick.
39:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't talk to anyone who mattered.
39:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought all mutants matter on critical.
39:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I says, third, I all mutants are equal, but some mutants are more equal than others.
39:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Third, I says, even here.
39:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Moses, there's power in being forgotten.
39:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Xavier can read any mind, but he overlooks a lot of them.
39:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Third, I says, so you've been talking to the invisible and the ignored.
39:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Moses, yep, and there's plenty of us in the world.
39:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Astroly moving back into his body, third eye notices that the others have moved just a little bit.
39:55
[SPEAKER_02]: We're keeping this focus just on third eye, although this whole series is fucking great.
39:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Every interaction, every line of dialogue, Victor Levolves.
40:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially in this first series, it's so careful.
40:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Issue four opens with a quote by Ida B.
40:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Wells.
40:07
[SPEAKER_02]: The way to write wrongs is to turn the light of truth upon them.
40:10
[SPEAKER_02]: We open on an image of third eye in the Asper plane, writing in an aerial ship and he carries tendrils behind him.
40:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Each one pulling one of the prisoners on Cricola.
40:18
[SPEAKER_02]: You can imagine things on the Asper plane, right?
40:20
[SPEAKER_02]: You manifest it unless you attract the attention of the shadow king, which is...
40:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Luckily not with putting here, you know what that.
40:27
[SPEAKER_02]: He says if anyone can visit the Astral Plane, most people do at least once when they're born.
40:31
[SPEAKER_02]: A smaller group comes through again as they die and some like me learn to travel back and forth.
40:36
[SPEAKER_02]: It was my pops who taught me I could cross the veil.
40:38
[SPEAKER_02]: When he transitioned, I tried to catch him as he crossed.
40:41
[SPEAKER_02]: But I was too young, didn't have control of my power so I lost him.
40:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Transition is a beautiful word there, by the way.
40:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't feel too sad about it.
40:48
[SPEAKER_02]: The man raised me to be an arcane assassin, his term.
40:51
[SPEAKER_02]: He trained me real well, but I don't do that work anymore.
40:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Which I'm going to throw this out a little bit later, but I'm kind of wondering if third I have connections to like the thieves or the assassins guilds in like maybe.
41:01
[SPEAKER_02]: But origins because there's the New Orleans thing.
41:03
[SPEAKER_02]: When Melter's powers went to go a ride, the souls in Krikoa briefly die, but third I gathered and tethered them all while keeping an eye on the surface, and Jean Grace senses him when he peeks in on her, as he has heard that and yeah, yeah, as he observed saber-tooth he notes, needing someone isn't the same as loving someone.
41:22
[SPEAKER_02]: He soon welcomes the others back, he pulls them one by one from the water and into the boat and melt your ends up in a new form here.
41:28
[SPEAKER_02]: What did they do?
41:29
[SPEAKER_02]: That question almost always follows the news that someone has been thrown in jail.
41:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I get it.
41:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I've done it plenty of times too, but it's interesting to think about what the question really means.
41:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what I think it means.
41:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Do they deserve it?
41:42
[SPEAKER_02]: But who decides something like that?
41:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Your boy third eye saw more than a few of his childhood friends get put in jail for life because they sold weed three times and then poof its legal and granola crag gets to save for retirement by slinging dope.
41:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I broke the first law.
41:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Make more mutants.
41:58
[SPEAKER_02]: How did I do that?
41:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a conger man, dabble in the astral, the arcane, and I can sometimes glean the future.
42:03
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of mutants on this island who are creating children without care with their leading babies to pile up like old shoes.
42:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I started showing them what kind of lives those little babies would be facing, cast aside, barely noticed, lacking love.
42:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You wanna talk about a surefire way to create a generation of monsters?
42:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I know because I'd been through it myself.
42:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I told the truth, but that truth was inconvenient.
42:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Birth rate on Krakowad dropped by a quarter, all cousin me.
42:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Next thing I know, I'm in shackles and charged for the crime.
42:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So what did we do?
42:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to tell you what law we really broke.
42:31
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't know our place.
42:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe that's all the enforcement in law enforcement turns out to be.
42:35
[SPEAKER_02]: A way to tell you who gets punished and who gets a way with a smile and a seat on the quiet council.
42:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so we get introduced to him in C2, which is just
42:45
[SPEAKER_03]: we're hit the ground run it.
42:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And I do believe that he has to have something to do with gambit and his people in those tribe.
42:53
[SPEAKER_03]: But I do also believe that Victor Laval wanted to kind of carve out a culture that's not just a part of gambit's people.
43:01
[SPEAKER_03]: So if they give him more space, I would love to have Victor give us stories that expands the history of thirdized people.
43:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of one is Grandma to be Tanamata.
43:13
[SPEAKER_02]: If you guys remember that, that woman or like, yes, he's like buddies with griscreists from the beginning of the year's guild, right?
43:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And I would love to see that built out some more.
43:23
[SPEAKER_03]: And that was a chunk of that culture.
43:26
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't the thieves' guild.
43:27
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't the Assassin's Guild.
43:29
[SPEAKER_03]: It was just kind of people that was associated with players in those guilds, right?
43:33
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like supporting Casper Belladana, Bedro.
43:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I would like to see that built out and maybe that's what Victor Laval had in my plans and plans, like, you know, but they had an overall, you know, used the head of the day.
43:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe third I came from that population.
43:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to see that built out some more.
43:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So second thing I'd love to highlight here is Third Eyes of Powerhouse.
43:54
[SPEAKER_02]: We put him on the Astro plane where his energy is unrestrained.
43:56
[SPEAKER_02]: He's building ships.
43:57
[SPEAKER_02]: He's creating anchors when people die.
44:00
[SPEAKER_02]: He tethers their souls back.
44:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Something he says he was unable to do with his dad.
44:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So he likely has a history perhaps of like reuniting people with their bodies, which is going to prepare us for the brother Voodoo conversation.
44:11
[SPEAKER_02]: next February, right?
44:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the zombie mentality.
44:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he makes me think of again, like black cultures all throughout, like our whole thing of ancestors and wanting to talk to people who have passed and I wonder if that was kind of what they did, maybe they, you know, used that to make money too, right?
44:30
[SPEAKER_00]: For the client, like I will connect you to a loved one that you want, but you're gonna have to pay us to do it for some people, right?
44:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you have to have income coming in, somehow,
44:41
[SPEAKER_00]: the groups, the guilds going and whatnot and I wonder if that's or sell it for you know like to do assassinate it right like country you know like country use remote killers because they're easier to do CIA did it you know they use you know we always had stories of the CIA you know in comics and books and stuff but they have people with that can reach out with their minds to kill and they would
45:08
[SPEAKER_00]: He's fertilized and his story is like he's just fertilized so much stuff that you could take it and do so many other stories with what he's just, you know, the seeds that he just dropped and in these many series that he's done.
45:25
[SPEAKER_02]: which is ironic because all of the characters in the pit have become fertilizer.
45:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, people have the surface.
45:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
45:32
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like taking on these mudforms.
45:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Alan, what does what would bring all the Greg's mutant power be?
45:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Privilege.
45:42
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what they're going to be.
45:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's also two actions with Unrecognized Privilege.
45:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, boo.
45:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I hate it.
45:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Which brings us to this kind of idea of the invisible.
45:54
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a theme we're seeing reinforced again and again in this series.
45:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Mole is reaching out to the people who aren't noticed.
46:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Third eye has been educating people about what happens to these babies that get tossed aside.
46:05
[SPEAKER_02]: The quote, you want to talk about a surefire way to create a generation of monsters.
46:10
[SPEAKER_02]: He's talking about his friends they get carted off for selling weed three times.
46:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And then our real crime is we didn't know our place.
46:16
[SPEAKER_03]: That is, that's a reflection of the New York City system of incarceration in the 80s and the 90s is that selling weed three times the third strike you get put away.
46:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Life in prison without the possibility of parole.
46:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to a certain point.
46:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's a lot of people got let out, especially when COVID hit.
46:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we weren't prepared for something like that.
46:42
[SPEAKER_02]: It's his three slave labor.
46:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I hate that directly.
46:45
[SPEAKER_02]: But it is.
46:46
[SPEAKER_02]: The prison and they have no choice but to do as they're told, it's free slave labor.
46:50
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't ever earn your freedom.
46:52
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you'll never get out of that.
46:54
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll never, you put in a situation where you're never get out of that, out of that hole, like you're never earning enough money to take care of yourself.
47:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that, the welfare system, like it's not a system where you get in pain, like that.
47:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the, you know, the story put out there is that, oh, people are just, you know, using it and buying roles, voices, and, you know, live it in mansions and stuff, but no, you never totally get out of poverty.
47:20
[SPEAKER_00]: just being on welfare, you're just using it to kind of sustain and survive, to care your family, while you have to find other avenues to eventually get out of it, and people do.
47:31
[SPEAKER_00]: They really do all the time, but those stories you never hear about because they want to make a boogie man, and that's the thing, like the pretty, you know, you have the pretty mutants.
47:41
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they all get to, you know, the gene graze and storm and Wolverine who's a killer, by the way.
47:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, beast, another killer, by the way.
47:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But they get to be out there at Arc Angel, how many people have he killed when he got, uh, transplanted.
47:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I think this is a military commander.
47:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, why don't a plan to the people.
48:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's exactly exactly.
48:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, but they get, yeah, they're coming close.
48:05
[SPEAKER_00]: They're creating it to be out in the world.
48:07
[SPEAKER_00]: They're fine, but you know us you know other mutes like Moll you got to know that you're not important.
48:12
[SPEAKER_00]: If something happens to you no one's coming to help you And all of my loved ones on the show.
48:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I try to amplify voices for everybody here But this is the disabled friends.
48:19
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the Native American friends.
48:21
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the transgender friends Like this is the immigrant friends.
48:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all of us, but from different lenses for all of us
48:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And for people of color in this country, there is a very clear livriality and a very clear history.
48:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And so much fucking policy has been written to keep people down.
48:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And we really think about it too.
48:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Now that we have this whole thing of the, you know, the immigrants get to illegal immigrants out.
48:42
[SPEAKER_00]: They're making us, there's a sub culture that's happening where, you know, like people of color, they're telling all people of color that you're not, you're not illegal immigrants, so you're fine.
48:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we work, but now you're fine,
48:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Just let us get rid of those people, the legal's because they're the ones destroying your life.
48:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's that divisiveness that they're trying to create with these policies that's happening now, but also no one is tracking these people.
49:08
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know where they are.
49:10
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't pit they have been thrown in.
49:12
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know we don't know.
49:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, mother father could disappear and not come home and you don't know how to find them or where they are and they have kids and, you know, like, people don't know where they're going to be.
49:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Keep posting these red school conversations on my show.
49:26
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a reason.
49:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a slippery slope and we're in it.
49:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It was slide, but we're, we're creating joy to, right?
49:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's, it's, it's not even a slope.
49:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we don't even want to be on the slope.
49:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Heta, Heta, Heta.
49:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Issue five opens with a John Milton quote.
49:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Our torments also may in length of time become our elements, which is a beautiful place to take this conversation.
49:50
[SPEAKER_02]: The series basically wraps up with Saber Tooth, abandoning the team.
49:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course he betrays them, he escapes, he's off on his own.
49:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't go well for him, and then he's told him.
49:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to do it, but they left behind and just as the pit is kind of dissolved and everyone goes free Nanny, orphan maker, and toad get tossed out of the pit as well.
50:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Nanny, I love one of my all-time favorites, Lady and an egg suit.
50:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I've done the trial of the toad.
50:14
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to jump to the follow-up series here, which is Saber Tooth and the eggsiles, and third eye on the beginning of this is described as third eye, psychic, sorcerer, reformed assassin.
50:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Alan, do you want to take the
50:26
[SPEAKER_03]: So it is the continuation, after Sabre II has abandoned them, Doug comes up and says, hey, he's gone.
50:33
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to need him not to ever come back.
50:35
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to let you guys go.
50:37
[SPEAKER_03]: We want you to go and make sure he never comes back.
50:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And Nekra becomes kind of the voice.
50:42
[SPEAKER_03]: of the exiles and challenges dug on so many levels and Doug's trying to reassure her known and all don't we're not asking you to assassinate him but we are going to give you this little pill and when you find him hit him with this little pill it won't kill him but it'll make him feel like he wish he was dead and it's like oh here we go.
51:02
[SPEAKER_03]: here we go with with the uh oh the punishments but then when we catch up with Sabritooth he's been snatched up by and I I just keep calling her lady Dr. Mangala because she's a disgusting disgusting human being and she she is this is a character named Barrington who is experimenting on you there's like mass pit there's a graves of mutant bodies and like it's awful
51:25
[SPEAKER_03]: But this series opens up more about the exiles entering into their hero phase when they discover that Dr. Lady Mengala has been doing these experimentations on mutants and tossing away her failures by the hundred and finding others that are been experimented on but still alive they're going to get rescued and in the rescue Sabritooth comes in and out of that rescue operation.
51:50
[SPEAKER_03]: So it becomes more of a superhero book and
51:53
[SPEAKER_03]: less about the individual stories of the people that were thrown in the pit because now they're out of the pit, but they just don't seem to be able to go back to that not able to go back to Procure because not everybody knows that they got freed from the pit, Doug and Crocodile and those they got freed.
52:07
[SPEAKER_02]: This isn't uncomfortable fascism conversation really quickly because the previous book was like we want to protect the invisible in the unseen because I don't want to tell you what happens when we when we forget them.
52:17
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what happens when we forget them, and we have pits of bodies, right?
52:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's shitty, but it's beautiful storytelling.
52:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I keep going.
52:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
52:26
[SPEAKER_03]: So again, we're introduced to Thurda as a psychic, a sorcerer, and a reformed assassin.
52:31
[SPEAKER_03]: So we got again a download and toad is added to the team.
52:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Nanny and Peter, the orphan maker, is added to the team.
52:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And his personality comes through better under Victor's pen.
52:44
[SPEAKER_03]: because he seems innocent and eventually he becomes kind of aware and kind of certainly like he almost as though he entered into his adolescence phase before the series is over.
52:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let me give a quick.
52:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll just give the quick sentence introduction here.
53:04
[SPEAKER_02]: who's also a mutant with mild psychic powers.
53:07
[SPEAKER_02]: She got jilted by a man, and then designed a suit of egg armor for herself, and she has since become obsessed with saving mutant babies, but she also kind of uses them as resources.
53:17
[SPEAKER_02]: She speaks in nursery rhymes, and one of the babies she rescued was a little baby named Peter.
53:21
[SPEAKER_02]: She took from Mr. Sinister.
53:23
[SPEAKER_02]: who has a mutant power that we don't know what it is.
53:26
[SPEAKER_02]: If it runs unchecked, it will like end all life on the planet.
53:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So she built the suit of armor to contain him and keep him young, basically.
53:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is the same woman that terms storm into a kid, what's right, like she has this power.
53:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So Peter now that he's hit adolescence is like outgrowing as uniform, but if it cracks open, it could literally be a weapon of mass destruction.
53:45
[SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of what we're jumping into here.
53:46
[SPEAKER_03]: So while they're setting out to find Saber Tooth, Neckra getting a little bit of the idea that I also want to get revenge on him because how dare he set us up for that kind of teamwork and then abandon us.
53:59
[SPEAKER_03]: He only used us to get out himself.
54:01
[SPEAKER_03]: So she wants to kick his ass is about to do that.
54:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Then they discover that when they've tracked Saber Tooth, they find Dr. Barrington.
54:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'll call her Dr. Barrington.
54:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Karen Mangala is her official name, that'll work for me.
54:16
[SPEAKER_03]: They discovered all the other mutants that she was working on and now their mission changes from getting Sabritooth to rescuing these people.
54:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And third I learned because she does, I mean he does a kind of Cassandra Nova to Dr. Barrington.
54:32
[SPEAKER_03]: He in his astrophone sticks his fingers through her head.
54:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And his fingertips come out of her forehead in the after playing at least and he learns about all the things that she's responsible for and he sends like we got to go in and He also was like bitch.
54:45
[SPEAKER_02]: This is how I used to kill people.
54:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I will scramble your eggs.
54:48
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what he says like referring to her brain.
54:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing that Necra again.
54:52
[SPEAKER_00]: She has a history of trusting terrible men, right?
55:02
[SPEAKER_00]: you should have known that this was going to be this was going to happen to you and the team.
55:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So like Arlington ends up kidnapping Orphanmaker and like is threatening to release his powers, which would trigger the extinction level of vent.
55:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's also a bunch of like mutant children being experimented on here.
55:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So Nanny's like, ooh, babies!
55:21
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the lead in here.
55:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're all running the risk of dying when third eye yanks them out of the astral plane to protect them.
55:27
[SPEAKER_03]: It takes them to a place that shouldn't exist on the astral plane.
55:31
[SPEAKER_03]: So he has the power not only to go himself, but he can take other people with him.
55:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm thinking that's a combination of his sorcery powers plus his mutant power.
55:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Because in his mutency, we didn't see him do that before, but then again, we just got kind of introduced.
55:45
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of a, it's kind of a glean from the wheel of time entering the Telemann Riaud dimension of the mind.
55:51
[SPEAKER_02]: If you guys know what I'm talking about for those that know the reference, she can craft a reality around her and like bring people in and like use it as a space.
55:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, on the astro plane.
56:00
[SPEAKER_03]: They find another one of the sites that Dr. Barrington was responsible for under the leadership of the orders of the general contractor, is that they called them the G.C.
56:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I think general contractor.
56:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Who we discover eventually is the big bad of the series actually.
56:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Who wanted Sabotooth on purpose?
56:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Who is Granola Gregg?
56:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Say we're to a shit mutant kid who wants
56:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep, so there's a whole drama going on with Sabretooth and his kid trying to get revenge on him by having snatched all these alternative Sabretooths from all these other realities and on this astroplane in this kind of Citadel the first grain Creed was found the not grain Creed Victor Creed was found here
56:45
[SPEAKER_03]: He dies, but that gives everybody, gives the readers the knowledge that this is what's going on.
56:50
[SPEAKER_03]: So while Graden is beaten up as dad, our exiles, and third eye is rescuing all these mutant kids from what Dr. Berrington was doing.
56:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Nanny doesn't be switched, like, if you all revert your brains to children for a few seconds, that will escape this crap that everyone has laid in it, will allow me to escape with all the mutant babies, which she doesn't, we've never seen her again yet.
57:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited, eventual return of Nanny.
57:15
[SPEAKER_02]: A couple moments, I would just want to pull a few quotes from this series, uh, the astral plane.
57:19
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no one way to see it, but I'm a sucker for the classic says third eye.
57:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I even took the name third eye as a nod to the old school mystics.
57:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So the astral plane always looks this way to me.
57:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't come alone this time though.
57:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how the others will take being here.
57:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Later with Peter on the astral plane, he's like stopping his powers from activating.
57:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Think of it like pulling the power source out of an IED, no battery, no explosion, which is like yanking your mind out of your body.
57:42
[SPEAKER_02]: That's crazy.
57:43
[SPEAKER_02]: The human mind needs something that understands in order to work best.
57:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And this place warps all understanding.
57:48
[SPEAKER_02]: We want solid ground, and that's the closest thing to it.
57:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I can sense out here.
57:52
[SPEAKER_02]: They also realize that Orchus has been mining the astral plane.
57:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So we look at what happens with evil corporations.
57:59
[SPEAKER_02]: They start draining energy.
58:01
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what he learned when he looked into her brain.
58:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's literal astral energy out of poor creatures that like they have found living on the plane and they're like draining their energy away.
58:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So we wanna protect them again.
58:12
[SPEAKER_02]: He also says at one point, entering the astral plane is a confusing experience.
58:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Not many can take it for long.
58:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he's a real fucking powerhouse in this series.
58:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I believe Marvel had a third series plan.
58:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that there was a plan for the writer to finish the series out.
58:26
[SPEAKER_02]: But for whatever reason, this ended up becoming a team up between him and Ben Percy to do the Saber Toothwar, which runs from Wolverine, 41-50 during Kirtoa, and like Tyson did some X-Force shit.
58:37
[SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna keep this focused on third eye and the X-Force.
58:39
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot happening here, but you're all doing a tell us about the Saber Toothwar.
58:42
[SPEAKER_02]: It's bloody horror, it's painful.
58:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's said after Cocoa's kind of fallen, and it's like Wolverine in a few of the others, Quentin, Laura, like a few of them are there, and Saber II is like, I got an army of Saber II's.
59:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I tricked him, I'm Captain Kirk, like he's sitting in the chair, like Captain Kirk the whole time as the ship, and he's like, I want revenge.
59:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanna, I wanna make that run tougher.
59:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanna destroy everything he loves.
59:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, it's the X-Men.
59:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And the whole thing is about just murdering the X-Men, torturing Wolverine, making him watch.
59:22
[SPEAKER_00]: As he kills everyone he loves his son, like the way they kill Doc and how they, you know, they cut up Quentin in the youth.
59:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is just, it is just a horrible emotional, like, just mess.
59:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone's trying to, like, stop saying for two.
59:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, and then the other, even the other Sabre 2's hate each other.
59:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, I guess we got a team up to get rid of this one.
59:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Because why do we let the, this guy think that he is the head of us when we're all Sabre 2's.
59:53
[SPEAKER_00]: We're all evil kick ass people.
59:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's also a little bit.
59:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Madison Jeffries gets ripped up, Dawkins gets killed.
59:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Dawkins gets killed.
1:00:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's killed.
1:00:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Only the three characters of colors survive from the eggsiles.
1:00:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:00:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:00:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Nice.
1:00:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I guess writing an orphan maker made it out.
1:00:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:00:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
1:00:10
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't know if Peter is a person of color in that armor.
1:00:13
[SPEAKER_03]: We've never seen him through.
1:00:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you, Melter gets killed too now.
1:00:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think it's killed.
1:00:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's a little bit, he also gets into this sick and weird relationship that Sabritooth has.
1:00:25
[SPEAKER_00]: There is kind of a love somewhere.
1:00:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know if you can call it love, but there's something that Sabritooth is attracted to in Logan, like he wants Logan to be, is he hates that people love him, like they hate it.
1:00:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Every time he's liked or loved by a group of people, he's like, he's just as bad as I am.
1:00:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can't listen to it.
1:00:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll listen to the San Bernardita episode where we introduce them on the show.
1:00:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very gay.
1:00:49
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a gay thing.
1:00:50
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a gay thing.
1:00:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the fight scenes.
1:00:53
[SPEAKER_00]: The way you guys describe the fight scenes.
1:00:55
[SPEAKER_00]: They are like them having sex, right?
1:00:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I think part of that body I murdered your son, want to fuck like it's yeah.
1:01:04
[SPEAKER_00]: We are gonna fuck every year or you're right there.
1:01:08
[SPEAKER_00]: We are gonna just fuck for hours and then until one of us Drop and then I'll come back and do it again next year and anyone else you love I'm gonna murder them to remind you that you only love me.
1:01:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, very it's very nice
1:01:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the most insane toxic relationship I've ever seen and yet when he thinks about the when quitting flashbacks to the to the That's the hey day.
1:01:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Sabritus was the happiest during the team when they had the team X when they were They were running around doing there with the squads that's the only time I think that's when he was because he was in love he had his he had his love with him
1:01:46
[SPEAKER_00]: There's lover in death, right?
1:01:48
[SPEAKER_02]: They were both movies first.
1:01:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Wolverine's first fuck was Sebertooth's sister, which is another whole thing.
1:01:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, he was able to try the one day.
1:01:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, it's just the whole thing of, of just how certain I like, they're still trying to help people and save people.
1:02:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like trying to dodge the chaos and the carnage that's going on at the same time.
1:02:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he helped Nekra too, right?
1:02:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he helped them work through there.
1:02:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and from his learn how not to just hate to develop her strength.
1:02:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess it'll be in another way.
1:02:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, protecting people is also a strength, right?
1:02:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Like doing something to help those you care about.
1:02:27
[SPEAKER_00]: They are strength that comes from that.
1:02:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And he helped them to do it.
1:02:31
[SPEAKER_00]: But not by he didn't do the Xavier way where he lectures you about shit.
1:02:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you need to do this, this, this and that.
1:02:37
[SPEAKER_00]: They're an icon.
1:02:38
[SPEAKER_00]: a guide you and let you figure out your way.
1:02:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And all the, all the same retreats end up dead at the end of the series.
1:02:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:02:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:02:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:02:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have seen Oya, or ADA go on to join the X-Men as temper.
1:02:49
[SPEAKER_02]: She's going to have a lot of delicate loving, beautiful writing by Jed McCay in the new X-Men book.
1:02:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Third Eye and Necro we last saw in the final, uh, the finale of Krikoa, where everyone joins their minds together to form like the Phoenix, Madison, like beat off the giant Mr. Sinister in the sky.
1:03:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you will.
1:03:06
[SPEAKER_02]: But I want to assume that third eye and Necro are out there working together to build society and community.
1:03:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, there's there's a lot of potential for these characters.
1:03:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I uh, there's a lot about this guy that I want to learn more about.
1:03:17
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know his name.
1:03:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, this idea about him being a reformed assassin.
1:03:20
[SPEAKER_02]: The connections he has the other characters and is upbringing like who his parents are.
1:03:24
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot that I think could be fascinating to explore the character like third eye.
1:03:29
[SPEAKER_02]: What are you left with as we're beginning the mind on our conversation?
1:03:34
[SPEAKER_02]: What are you left with?
1:03:35
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you need more of to make this character sing for you?
1:03:38
[SPEAKER_00]: That's one more of his history with this family and what yield and what?
1:03:43
[SPEAKER_00]: What things his father made him do?
1:03:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a lot of that he learned to use his powers early on.
1:03:48
[SPEAKER_00]: He probably had to murder people early on.
1:03:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yet he's not a Satan.
1:03:51
[SPEAKER_00]: He was able to not become a monster.
1:03:55
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, he wanted to help children to take care of kids, right?
1:03:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he knew when you have the wrong parents, the wrong when they don't have the right upbringing or the right support.
1:04:07
[SPEAKER_00]: They they can wind up creating something even worse.
1:04:10
[SPEAKER_02]: But I feel like he learned a hard lesson along the way.
1:04:13
[SPEAKER_02]: There's some, I almost wonder if he killed his dad.
1:04:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he could bring him back, right?
1:04:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's some sort of, there's some sort of origin story that changed him.
1:04:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he pushed him, and he, and he lashed out at his father.
1:04:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, maybe, you know, he killed there's something in there.
1:04:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Thirdize adventures on the astral plane and like the realms that exist in who he knows and how he learned his powers and their depth is also fascinating who trained him.
1:04:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Alan, what are you left wanting to know more of?
1:04:39
[SPEAKER_03]: That, that, that, that origin.
1:04:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I do think that we saw him getting some evolution.
1:04:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, there's two scenes in the Sabritooth and the Exiles where when they catch up with Sabritooth and Necrot is whipping the shit out of Sabritooth for having left them.
1:04:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Um,
1:04:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I can mark that.
1:04:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
1:04:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Third eye is standing kind of to the side and he's just criticizing what a team we are.
1:05:02
[SPEAKER_03]: But when they have rescued the kids and they re educate them because San Francisco had a hold of those kids for a while and it was telling them Crecco was horrible and I'll lead you and they were kind of falling in line with San Francisco until San Francisco abandoned them too.
1:05:16
[SPEAKER_03]: When they finally got the kids, not the babies but the kids.
1:05:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Third eye recognized, oh we are a team now, now we're a team.
1:05:24
[SPEAKER_03]: We were on a team before we were just going out for vengeance, but now that we're helping kid and we want those kids to have a better life, now we're a team and I think that was some of his own evolution.
1:05:34
[SPEAKER_03]: So wherever he came from and however he has whatever he's learned up to this point, I want to see now what happened, now what happened.
1:05:41
[SPEAKER_03]: So give me more of his origin and tell me now what did he take away from that whole experience.
1:05:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I loved this character, but this conversation has made me like really, really love this character, but more than anything, I love the two of you, but Victor LeVal, you're fucking off, like back then.
1:05:56
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a rare story where we get to see a character with a ton of depth and potential, but mostly just crafted by one writer.
1:06:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Now Ben Percy, I'm a big fan of him, and I've met Ben, and he's a lovely, nice, nice guy.
1:06:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But in the Wolverine books, there's a particular story where Craven the Hunter arrives on the island and starts hunting down all of the vulnerable mutants.
1:06:15
[SPEAKER_02]: There's so many images of slaughter, people getting ripped apart, kids getting killed in the classroom, kind of energy, you know?
1:06:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is kind of what we're living these days in America at a less direct way, right?
1:06:27
[SPEAKER_02]: But like the hope of Krikoa has been replaced by the like, oh no, Krikoa fell down, this is what we got left fuck.
1:06:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were like,
1:06:35
[SPEAKER_02]: The energy in the community I capture on this show is one of my lifebloods these days.
1:06:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so grateful for the two of you and for all of those of you who participate in these conversations.
1:06:45
[SPEAKER_02]: This is so edifying and educational and I just feel very deeply grounded in all of this.
1:06:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, recording this on the day that I visited the Astro Play.
1:06:54
[SPEAKER_00]: You know the thing that's I think I cut from reading this is that third eye I think you kind of had a side third I had a side eye about Xavier right with the teams in the X-Men like yeah, what do you really do like what do you who you really helping?
1:07:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think when they save those kids you kind of got a sense of oh, this is what that feeling is when you you know bringing
1:07:16
[SPEAKER_00]: the team together, misfit, and what you can do is a team.
1:07:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that that really set off something in a him that I could see him out there just, you know, trying to help like all these displaced mutants, the ones that are left behind because of the loss of Krakow.
1:07:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see him going out there and and.
1:07:33
[SPEAKER_00]: helping them and trying to bring them together and get them support too at the same time like I I would love to see Victor come back and and tell that kind of story again.
1:07:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It's important now especially we need stories of hope like that's the thing we need we need these hopeful stories or else we'll just get bogged down.
1:07:51
[SPEAKER_02]: No hope summers she died which brings me to a maybe third I was living in the white hot room but why I got to be white yeah
1:07:59
[SPEAKER_02]: because it's pure.
1:08:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Follow me on Instagram, look up downtown Taylor.
1:08:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I do a few podcasts.
1:08:09
[SPEAKER_00]: One is nothing's on with my co-host Danny Savo's, the comedian, what we talk TV and movies and me.
1:08:15
[SPEAKER_00]: He's, I'm black, he's white and we talk about a lot of, we bring in a lot of us, uh, the,
1:08:20
[SPEAKER_00]: conversations about race and this shows we watch and what not.
1:08:25
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't shy away from it and also I have a two DC podcasts that I cover a lot of stuff with that I really enjoy DC all stars is one and we've been covering like we've been going into the 80s and talking about a lot of the
1:08:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really cool and creative comics that came out of the 80s Batman oriented podcast, and you know, I know Batman You throw a rock and you hit like 50 Batman titles But it's what still it's a lot of fun that we have with those stories and yeah, I just it's just a blast talking to people and friends about comics that you love and we just enjoy doing a great to see my friend
1:09:02
[SPEAKER_03]: You can just follow me on Instagram, that takes you to Threads, if you care.
1:09:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I am a new mutant 08.
1:09:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been a author and artist of the Power Principle.
1:09:15
[SPEAKER_03]: It's on hiatus right now.
1:09:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I've gotten into Dungeons and Dragons, and that's where my creative juices are flowing.
1:09:22
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not being recorded or anything.
1:09:24
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry guys, but the six people that are my players are having all the fun.
1:09:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I hope you guys are doing what I want to leave you with is never let go of hope.
1:09:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Never let go of hope.
1:09:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I know what it looks like to go here.
1:09:38
[SPEAKER_03]: We are in the thick of it.
1:09:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
1:09:40
[SPEAKER_03]: The reason why I started this show saying that as a good day in New York is just one of those possibilities that could happen to show you that there are people still paying attention.
1:09:49
[SPEAKER_03]: There are people that are still empowered to do some things.
1:09:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the way you're going to activate yourself and get involved in the change that has to happen is if you hold on to your own hope because that gives you the scope of your own future like third I had to say I can do something it's not over I still have power let me go find it you must always look for your empowered half and use it and you can make the change you need.
1:10:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You would've stayed in there.
1:10:18
[SPEAKER_02]: You so much a friend, friend, nerd, nerd, therapist, therapist, that dollar out.
1:10:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks everyone for listening.
1:10:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You follow the show at Grimalk and Underscorland on Instagram most easily.
1:10:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I keep my own social media private because I got kiddos, the two of you are welcome to follow me.
1:10:31
[SPEAKER_02]: The next episode you can watch for, I'm a hoard this month.
1:10:35
[SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna do I'm aoy, of course.
1:10:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Trevor Hawke, who's up for the next episode.
1:10:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we're gonna jump over to the ORM after that, which is gonna be a very different kind of journey for us.
1:10:44
[SPEAKER_02]: like z level horror energy it's gonna be fun and watch for the trial of a lot to the washer at the end of the month.
1:10:51
[SPEAKER_02]: We're launching it into the new year with the night collar month so 2026 will be a strong build as always creating joy is an act of defiance and I appreciate creating joy both of you this evening thanks everyone for listening have fun visiting the Astro plane and your dreams this evening and we'll we'll see y'all back here next time on the show bye bye