Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / Rivals The First Episode

Transcript

Rivals The First Episode · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

0:00
Well, welcome to rivals. I'm Rick Celizo. Not that that matters joining me. We've got Sijon Kerwin. So welcome Sijon
0:09
And from South Africa victim Matt Peele. So welcome Victor. Sorry for waking you up. This is so early in the morning
0:16
Nice to meet you get those glasses when you are sir. I want them as well. Yeah, I need to be a surface
0:23
I listen to you too. So a couple of things just really early in the piece Victor Ricardo was my captain at school
0:31
he was a number eight and
0:33
I will not let any forwards talk to me about fashion
0:38
Okay, just
0:40
Not something you guys should worry about just leave the fashion to me
0:44
You should now I'm going to say all the question was I know in the front row these days
0:51
Yeah, that's because of the highest paid players back in the day used to be the wingers Victor now the bloody props are the highest paid players in the world
0:58
No, that we're in jail and bloody all the
1:09
Tell me how that happened Victor. How did the prop become the most valuable player? It's always actually been
1:17
And you be Zealand. There's just kind of I don't know I did away
1:23
wanted to transform
1:24
Yourself or generally I'm all the sudden that's all it was about. It's always been the hard work of the force
1:31
Passages there may be in the last 10 or 20 minutes. I can do something with say
1:36
18 minutes fight between the real record players in front
1:40
Now this year this last week or so the World Rugby's sort of moved the whole 20-minute red card to a full global trial
1:49
so
1:50
What do you gentlemen think of the idea that but all games will have a you get a red card you
1:56
Out for 20 minutes and you can sub a new player and he comfortable with that
2:01
No
2:04
I think any minutes is too long
2:06
I think there's a change you bring the guy back off to 10 minutes for someone else
2:10
Yeah, like for me. I look this is this is my issue. I think that you know we've forgotten the fan
2:18
So I don't think there's like I really liked Victor
2:22
I really liked the referee in the European Cup final who said yeah, there was no malice in that
2:28
It's only a yellow card right because he looked at it properly
2:33
And let's not start on the TMOs or let's start on the TMOs
2:38
So for me Ricardo what about the fan like if I paid like this is the World Cup final
2:44
Let's go back to that and I've paid four five hundred euro and then Sam can get sent off
2:50
And then see a koalescia who I thought should have been sent off
2:54
Now there was all sorts of different things
2:56
And I didn't want either of them to be sent off right but all of a sudden at the end of the game you go
3:01
This didn't feel right
3:03
It doesn't feel right whereas I believe if there is malice then the player should be sanctioned
3:09
Find and have a longer section at the end of the game
3:13
But why should the fan suffer what happened if that was a red card in the European Cup final and one team loses because of it
3:20
Is that the right result?
3:22
So I understand player safety
3:24
I understand that we don't want to touch the head
3:28
But for me it's more a technical issue and the player should suffer post
3:32
If there's malice right if there's malice then that's another that's another
3:38
Issue but I don't think there is anymore
3:40
Johnny you you're arguing a completely different subject with me. I'm saying
3:45
What about coming on replacing a player after 20 minutes you you're saying I'm saying no you're not having
3:51
No recards at all
3:53
No
3:55
I agree 100 December John Kerry. Can you believe it?
3:58
Sure, that's unreal
4:00
Are you taping with Ricardo because that's the first time Victor Matt feels agreed with me ever
4:05
I mean we want to go off to our place
4:09
But again, I think if you look back
4:12
Before we all focus on this head contact
4:16
I never
4:17
Remember a guy when he was head contact
4:20
It wasn't something that was part of the guy and a lot of these head contacts
4:24
Isn't that severe? When do players get injured?
4:27
Go have a look at it. It's when you attack him when you hit it a hip or a knee or a foot or something
4:34
That's most of the time all these extra dental
4:37
Head clashes. There's no one that's really getting injured. There's no
4:42
Concuss concussions or anything. So an arm with a John again. It's about him 10
4:47
Someone runs from the side with a
4:50
Swinging arm getting someone against it sitting off the whole game
4:55
But if you tell accident and it happens in rugby this
4:59
Change of direction by accident you get a hit away in no player wants to eat his own it against someone's else's it
5:06
Understand
5:08
How can you and again then it comes back to consistency what John is saying in the World Cup final this weekend again
5:15
Also
5:17
That was never a record in the Dure Cup European final. I mean the waiting he's position was good
5:24
The attack ended over it's getting sick yellow corn
5:29
But I mean a week ago the same thing happened with diamond well himself and a normal cool guy
5:35
Got a red card. He suspended for three weeks. He can't end the semi-final final. Same incident
5:41
So firstly the consistency is not there. Secondly
5:46
Is there a tent or not if there's not a tent to hurt someone? I don't think it can be a red card
5:51
And then the third thing what John is saying
5:53
I mean this millions of people watching the World Cup final this 80,000 people
5:59
That bought tickets to fly to France that made their tickets. They want to see 15 versus 15
6:05
They don't want to go to be decided by one incident in the 10th minute of the game
6:10
They want to see 15 versus 15 go at going at each other and having you speak to go on the day
6:17
So Ricardo, I'll ask you this because I always talk about technique
6:22
Okay, a tackler should be at that technique right this is the legs this is the torso
6:27
Right if I'm running on attack and I drop to that level and head
6:32
Whose fault is it right? So we need to start talk about the TMO
6:36
We need to be way more intelligent with the technology we've got so instead of the ref deciding just look at his back
6:42
If the guys like that right in a tackle he if he's like that he's always going to ride up
6:49
So when you look at I watch the replays from a
6:52
Technical point of view and if a player's
6:55
Down like that and this player comes to him who's it fault right and this game happens so fast
7:00
That's what we don't realize on the sideline and even the TMO doesn't realize the game
7:05
Happened so fast if you change your footing so I believe we can read card them
7:10
But they should be replaced straight away because then the fan doesn't lose any money
7:15
Okay, so read card him good, but he's replaced straight away. Why should
7:19
The opposition team or the team that's been read carded suffer when it wasn't on purpose because what are what are the values of our game?
7:28
The values of our game are fair contest. Okay as soon as someone gets read card it
7:33
It's not a fair contest. So we're going away from actually the constitution of our game
7:37
Why do we why do we agree with the South Africans and do lifting in the lineup?
7:42
Right because we wanted it to be a fair contest
7:45
Why have we got the jackal at the ruck because we want it to be a fair contest?
7:50
Right that is the fundamental constitution of our game and yet we send someone off
7:55
I mean if you take a boxer
7:58
You decide to go into a boxing match to punch it other in the face
8:04
Same thing if you do UFC parting on a big fan
8:08
Um you going to that dream
8:10
That's your sport. Same with rugby
8:13
We could have done boring dancing if you want to play cricket or whatever
8:18
We decided we wanted to play this game and we know this can be fierce
8:22
Yes of course you want to be fair and you want to be clear
8:25
Of course there's risk in there. You can't get I mean nothing can get wrong and you can throw your
8:31
Uh ligaments in your knee or your shoulder belts next lot of the game sir. I don't know why we're overreacting
8:39
On little injuries that happens now there
8:42
So listen Ricardo I'll explain it to you then because it looks like you're confused
8:47
We're okay with red cars, but you must put a lot replace them straight away with a player
8:51
And then we deal with the player the next
8:54
Any get you to find or whatever right but we should not ever be playing
9:00
For 15 against 14
9:02
Because for me whether it's not in the core constitution of the game if it's malice give the guy eight weeks
9:09
If it's not then actually just let someone play on
9:13
I agree
9:18
I understand they don't write it because the spelling will be wrong, but um what I'm trying to work out is
9:24
It's nice to see you agreeing how about this one jk. Um are you a big fan of the bomb squad?
9:30
I know shut up. They don't even bring that up. That's ridiculous. You know
9:33
I am totally against it and then I'm totally against the bomb squad
9:38
but not to similar reasons for
9:41
um
9:42
The red card right our game is made up of
9:46
15 players and reserves right and those reserves are there for what
9:51
To cover injuries to cover someone to make a tactical change. I like the tactical games. I like the tactical chance
9:58
Yeah, okay, but how how safe is it then if we're talking about player safety putting on you know
10:05
five
10:06
unbelievably physical South Africans that weigh about 200 kilos
10:11
When the opposition is tiring. You think that's safe for the game. I don't believe it is. So I think we need
10:18
More fatigue in our game. We don't need guys coming on who are incredibly fit incredibly strong and being able to
10:27
tackle someone who or or or go into a rut with someone who's actually maybe a bit fatigued
10:32
Because I think we need more fatigue in our game that will be more
10:36
tries like we're seeing in super rugby at the moment
10:38
So for me the bomb squad is about slowing the game down. It's about
10:43
Dominating a certain type of rugby
10:46
And I just don't agree with it. Well, I had a look at
10:51
Formula 1 this weekend
10:53
I thought about it said why didn't they start the race
10:57
With tires and finish their racing cars and they have to go through that whole race
11:02
At and manage the tires don't go too hard don't go too quick
11:06
Uh and finish the race because that's also a skill
11:09
And I think that's the same as racpen and suit like that. The most of you feel your tires aren't really yes. You're going to
11:16
um
11:17
Spend a few seconds in that bitch, but then you come out with new tires. And I think breakfast is safe
11:22
Unfortunately, it's not a 15 man guarantee once 23 man get and the guys from the beans are not there for reserves
11:29
Like they could say can bring something different to the game if you need that and secondly is he want to use it
11:36
I think before russi even was just there because I was always worried because the guy in the bench was second base third
11:43
Now russi went out the hell look at it now. Can I use all 23 players as in that match day squad
11:51
To get their base result and a lot of the time we see fantastic class when those guys come on because they've got different skills
11:57
You can maybe start with a hundred pull out. That's really that's technically good
12:01
A little hit in the corners. It will play the pressure game
12:04
Then in the second half you can bring on a mony little or such a that can open up the game in different top
12:10
place so
12:11
I think it brings a lot of excitement at last 20 minutes if you bring a different type of play on and
12:18
A lot of the time you see quite nice tries even nice more tries. It's beautiful to watch
12:24
And nice small try and nice small try
12:27
A nice little try
12:35
Victor that wasn't the question the question was do you like the bomb squad?
12:40
I do like the bomb squad because they bring something different and the last
12:44
20 minutes there is an impact that you're almost waiting for and so if you get the people
12:49
The man with that bomb squad can they get mad in the stats because they know
12:53
Something is going to happen this new tactics going to happen and there's new energy on the field as well
13:00
So you replace three quarters of your scrum and line up
13:06
Yeah, but remember to do that you take a risk. Let's say you did
13:10
Two um back injuries. Then one of your loose thoughts into the round the wing and that gives opportunity for
13:17
Now to attack that so it's all about risk and reward and I think in any game that's tactics
13:24
How are you going to use the players that you are allowed to use in a game
13:29
To your benefit
13:31
Yeah, you just don't give the backs the ball Victor that's all in the last 20 minutes
13:35
You just need to win again. You just need to win. How many for one goes? It's all you need to do. I'm happy
13:41
I knew that was going to come out
13:43
Yeah, that was going to come out
13:47
And that's a nice thing to be aware with these different styles is different tactics
13:51
Uh, how you want to play the game? How you win gaps? Uh, no one is playing the same. I think
13:57
We'll never want to take that away certain teams. I mean if you look at the
14:01
Uh, I'm a good cup of the champions cup
14:05
For them
14:06
They've got a pack of forts at work all that you said
14:09
Just good ball and the backs win the game for them because they can play a certain style
14:15
The ball there's more forward oriented even the weather for the last 13
14:19
Playing the pressure game and I think we should have changed it in international rugby is the same
14:25
The spring box can never with all black
14:27
Uh, all the wall cups the way the whole blacks do
14:31
Uh, I mean Ireland can never play the way the whole blacks. What's up, Africa? So
14:35
But Victor if the rules if the rules and how you can use the bench
14:41
Give South Africa because of the DNA and unfair advantage. Do you think that's fair?
14:47
Do you think that makes our game fair? If you look at Glasgow
14:51
It's in my Glasgow's also using it now. It's not just South Africa
14:55
Glasgow
14:56
It's also using it very well at this stage. I'm talking at international level now though
15:02
All right, I want a faster game. I don't want a slower game
15:05
So I don't know if you've been watching super rugby because it sounds like you've changed to a northern hemisphere
15:11
Uh, person
15:14
I think you've you've moved on from the southern hemisphere, but you know for me
15:19
I am loving super rugby and the crowds are up and the amount of time that the game is in play
15:25
Is up, but my biggest fear is that could be negative
15:29
Towards us being able to play at international level
15:32
Right, but I want it. I want the game
15:36
To be faster. I want the game to have more fatigue
15:39
And I think that's the health and safety issue more fatigue
15:42
Then the players won't change. They'll just lose weight. They'll just lose size. They won't be as big
15:48
But I want more time
15:51
More play time. I don't want to see a scrum reset three times. I know you love that shit
15:56
But I hate it and I'm pretty sure it doesn't attract new crowds
15:59
No, they can just give us a binocular the first time it goes down because you guys don't want to scrum against us
16:04
So that's easy
16:06
And then I mean you talk about it with laws that you see at number nine 30 minutes
16:14
They don't do it anymore because why they've teeth they want to speed up the game. I do so
16:20
All the nines get to replace
16:22
Because they want to bring speeding to the gap, so
16:24
But
16:25
When everyone was doing that, no one was saying nothing about
16:28
Shouldn't the nine get to teeth because on the fence maybe you'll be in a
16:33
Worse place. No one said nothing all of a sudden now that I mean russi used these strengths to ease
16:39
At bond this now everyone is going on about it. I've got no issues with russi
16:43
I think he's the most innovative coach. We've had in a long long time
16:47
So you know, I think he's done some amazing things and I think obviously you've won four wheel cups
16:55
Um and russi's been a massive part of
16:59
of that
17:01
I just don't agree with with the bomb squad. I just don't agree with that type of rugby
17:06
I want to see rugby changed where
17:09
Um, we just we're playing 55-60 minutes of real time
17:13
So just just to clarify so so on one side you've got one person that's
17:17
Well, aren't you listening with Carla? Well, aren't you listening?
17:20
You're saying that you want rugby that suits you
17:23
Invictus saying that he wants rugby that suits him in his country
17:27
Isn't that the choice
17:28
Like shouldn't we choose the type of rugby that suits the DNA of the country or that you know
17:34
It's is it is it really outplace to tell South Africa what they can do with their substitutes?
17:39
No, I get that Ricardo
17:41
But the trouble is the the rules need to be universal for everybody
17:45
So if you can muck round in the scram if you can slow it down if you can read it
17:50
Set it reset it and waste a minute and a half two minutes
17:54
Then for me that is not
17:56
How the game should be played. So I jump and I come in here
18:01
So South Africa our domestic competition
18:05
Three years ago under us and then we also
18:09
One the ball in play up in the game
18:13
I mean we we started with this hole only 30 seconds before a liner
18:18
Um, we tested that because we're on a ball and play as well. We don't want to slow down
18:24
But we want to be able to let say scram for affinity
18:28
We don't want guys just go to the ground and nothing happens. We want to use our strength
18:32
We want to be able to more if we can more for 50 meters
18:37
And score a charm and we love that and that's our strength and we don't want to go away from that
18:43
So we still we want ball in play. We don't care about
18:47
Um, the game being slow. We also get frustrated, but we want to use
18:52
Um, our physicality and that's why the boom squad. So now
18:57
Jurassic tell to the guy we want ball in play. Let's go for 40 men. We don't have to slow it there
19:02
Because if someone else coming on that's going to do it for the next 40 minutes
19:07
So it's not just a 60-20
19:09
So we also want the ball up. We're just using more players in the game to
19:13
Get to do that with a physicality with the size of the place we've got to play
19:18
I think we should just try and bring everyone together you know that
19:22
It's all about bringing the world together and there's a special relationship between New Zealand and South Africa and Rugby
19:27
and uh
19:28
JK you were part of the 92 tour
19:31
That was the first team to go back to uh South Africa after the boycott and the other day
19:36
I managed to find some old uh home video footage um from that tour. So I want you to have a look at this
19:42
This is uh the 92 tour of South Africa with your blacks
19:52
hahaha
19:54
Probably one of the most amazing times of my life uh a
19:59
Being part of history
20:01
Um, you know, I I dreamed of playing against the the spring walks all my life
20:06
You know, I got up
20:08
72 tour when Brian Williams scored that try under the post, you know, so for me it was just this amazing
20:14
um
20:16
career opportunity. I think um what one amazing evening we were both
20:21
South Africa and New Zealand
20:24
We had a barbecue and because of security because Mandela
20:28
Had just been released from prison and was going for for for president or prime minister or whatever whatever it is
20:35
So we had a barbecue victor. There was uh
20:38
Mandela Declack
20:40
How
20:41
How prime minister
20:43
Which was Jim Bolger at the time and both teams and because of safety
20:47
They got us to go down into a like and to uh thing in Johannesburg and to mine for safety
20:53
So you know, I got down there and I thought
20:56
This I'm just not happy with this, you know, Mandela's over there. Declux there. It was an incredible time
21:01
I think from a rugby point of view it was just neat to be just neat to be back um you know playing
21:08
We were we'd come off on Australian so because it was tagged on to the end of the Australian trip
21:13
Would been eight weeks in South Africa or seven weeks in South Africa and then
21:17
Off to South Africa, but just the beauty of the country the passion
21:22
The passion that the people have for the game, you know, I mean, it's probably
21:26
The only equivalent would be New Zealand. So
21:29
And the rivalry was picked up straight away
21:32
So it'll always be a special tour for me. You were probably a bit young then Victor
21:37
Yeah
21:39
I was born at least
21:41
Yeah, I'm so I'm so excited for the tours to come back. I think it's next year in South Africa, New Zealand story about the
21:50
Country and I mean that rivalry and that respect for each other. It's just something you won't find anywhere else. I mean
21:58
Any South African boy just want to test himself against the beast who is the all blacks. I mean
22:04
No, how many years that
22:06
Ratby has been played the all blacks probably for 70% of the time with the number one team in the world. So
22:13
You want to test yourself against them
22:15
It's always hard, but the respects they I think New Zealanders love to come here. We love to go to New Zealand
22:22
Because the love for Ratby is there and yeah, I can't wait for these
22:27
Tourists to start again
22:28
You know Victor that interesting thing for me when when I get introduced and this is probably a bit vain for me to say
22:34
When I get introduced
22:36
They say I played 63 tests for the all blacks
22:39
But I actually played
22:41
96 games and some of those midweek games, you know
22:46
If you played against a French selection on a Wednesday night in Bordeaux or
22:51
You play against the free state
22:53
You know
22:54
It's just it's as hard and the people you're playing
22:58
Have take this opportunity to play the best games of their life
23:02
Touring and playing you during the week I reckon is one of the most amazing things that a rugby player can experience
23:10
And I think it makes you a better test player as well, you know
23:13
Because you know that you've got to be on your game and you can try stuff
23:17
But it's still it's not test match, but it's not far away because the opposition are just so
23:23
Passionate so bring back to us
23:25
Yeah, I mean for those youngsters
23:28
That maybe haven't played a test to two or four weeks with those
23:32
Experienced taste players and just to see how they do things to become part of that culture
23:38
I think I'd want to
23:41
2000 as a midweek player to the UK and I mean just to be in that squad
23:47
To be in the same bad versus the US and the best days in or Mark Andrews
23:53
Which is unbelievable and such a great learning curve
23:56
So yeah, I can't wait for these tourists to come back and that's one of the British Irish tours so special
24:02
Because you said the players at Michael ever play taste match
24:06
But they get the opportunity to test them against the best in the world
24:09
Uh, oh shit there's Portia
24:12
Portia
24:13
Hey
24:14
Hi
24:15
Portia you've got Victor Matfield, John Kuhl and Rick Salizo and Nicole
24:20
Awesome, lovely to meet you guys
24:23
So Portia, first of all, congratulations on a great win and seven tries. You must have wrapped with that
24:28
Yeah, yeah, I think I went into that game kind of questioning my abilities a little bit based on the Canadian game
24:35
But then obviously going through that game those questions kind of left my mind for sure
24:41
Portia, you're retired
24:43
And you've come out of retirement, so tell us that process
24:48
I think when I was talking about retirement with my agent and my final I always like
24:55
I want to have a baby
24:56
um 2026
24:58
What are some opportunities that I can get into and so that's where that kind of talk came from was
25:02
Okay, well, let's try play as much rugby or international stuff or
25:06
Try different opportunities as much as I can and then was woke up just around the corner
25:11
I thought man why not it's it's only a little way away
25:15
I can put my heart and soul into it and if I get don't get there then fine cater play it all good
25:20
But if I do then it's another opportunity that I get to I guess have a crack at the walk up. So
25:25
Yeah, it was a sort of retirement
25:28
My wife kind of gives me crap for it, but I think it's for the both of us. It's the same thing
25:32
Yeah, good on you. A long time retired. I wouldn't worry about it at all
25:36
So the interesting thing for me though
25:39
Portia was the sevens Wahine came back into into the team was that was that difficult
25:45
To manage was there any conflict or anything like that
25:49
No, that's the really cool thing. I think um as the woman's game has really developed and progressed
25:55
There's no animosity between any players
25:58
I mean you have Amy Dupesie who's been a consistent member of the black friends for the last few years
26:03
And then you have Stacy Walker coming in Amy Dupesie is right there supporting every single one of us even me as a winger
26:09
She's there at the end of every training. What do you need? Do you need help with this? She's sending clips
26:14
Same with Ashley Tenga
26:16
Kennedy, you know, like you've got these girls have been fully committed to the black friends and then you have someone else come into the environment
26:23
Um like woman playing rugby is the best thing and so if we can get the best team there then then that's the best thing for the black friends
26:30
Well, the men's need to learn from that I reckon because I think that
26:34
Disconnection is wrong and I think if we you know work pretty hard then then they can play both
26:41
The other interesting thing for me is that the the female game has grown. It's been incredible to watch not only from
26:47
From ability point of view, but also just the whole growth of the sport. I mean
26:52
Can the female player now actually make a decent living? How is it commercially?
26:59
Um, I think yeah, it's definitely on the rise like I think if I was to look back to when I first started there was
27:05
There wasn't a lot out there for us and I think
27:08
um the more that the
27:10
The game is out there the more the girls are being seen the more people can relate to each player and then
27:16
products and companies what see value and having these girls
27:20
Say commercially on the product or some kind of thing like I'm lucky enough
27:23
I'm with Mastercard and we have a really cool partnership in that sense
27:27
There's some really decent money up there like you know and obviously
27:32
It's the very top few at the moment and we'd love to see that trickle down through some of the other girls, but as long as
27:38
We're still understanding that the girls have this story
27:40
And if we can get their stories out there have people connect with those stories relate to those stories in
27:46
Promotion and commercial stuff will come to those players
27:49
Um Victor, I know there's just two wingers, but do you want to have that?
27:54
Yeah, I think I think first of all I said I need to apologize. I think inside Africa we were pretty conservative about the women's game
28:04
um
28:05
I was always
28:06
Should women play rap beat
28:08
Um, but my my my change completely. I think it started with the sevens unbelievable to watch him watch and then the previous world cup unbelievable
28:18
I actually need advice to grow the game globally, but also in South Africa
28:23
Uh, what did they get right? What can we do once our Africa actually do the way I got back because we've got so much talent here as well
28:30
I think the biggest parts that I think we're really fortunate with in New Zealand is we have people who are working really hard from the grassroots level
28:39
Creating pathways for players for women
28:42
And when we get to the top level, there's some decent
28:46
development now happening
28:48
We weren't back 10 12 years ago. It was still very um
28:52
Slow to see that progress through and I think now we're seeing the growth from high school through to club
28:58
Through to fpc and through all those different pathways
29:01
There's a better clearer pathway through it
29:04
And I think if that was to if we were to start over again or for I was to look back and
29:09
think how can I
29:11
How can we progress these even faster was just to create that development through the um through the grassroots level
29:17
I came into rugby through a scouting process called go for gold which brought in athletes from all sorts of sporting backgrounds
29:24
To have a crack at rugby and we found some really talented athletes from netball from swimming from wrestling
29:30
I think that's helping out with the development and creating that pathway to that elite level
29:34
Obviously, we can always do more work um within that pathway
29:38
I think the pathway for 15s is a lot clearer than it is for sevens at the moment
29:42
Um, but that that development at grassroots is really important
29:46
I think comfortable to victor one of the things that happened at the modest rugby club
29:51
Is we weren't really set up for our female players
29:55
You know, and so once you make the female player feel comfortable
29:59
So you know female changing room
30:01
Integrate them into everything that you do then we've just seen this massive boom at our club
30:07
So you know, I think you've got to be conscious of it which is important and then once
30:13
You create that then wow, you know, you can see some incredible growth out our female games growing
30:20
At a incredible rate
30:22
Portia tell me about England so
30:25
That's a new team that we can love to hate right? So they've been incredible
30:30
In the last few years we managed to snatch that went off them and last we'll cut
30:34
But we want a world cup coming up. What do we need to do stop their dominance?
30:38
I think when you look at England, they've got some really strong
30:42
Ford pack and they've got forwards that run fast and they've they've agile just like a backline
30:47
You've got Sarah burn
30:49
There's a prop who's keeping up with their first fives with their wingers, you know like we need to have some kind of power like that
30:56
At the moment, we're still kind of jelling
30:58
I think in the that last pack four series we're still learning what each other's combinations are like
31:03
Well, how we're still playing together where we went through a clunky phase
31:06
And so hopefully within the next we've got two test match series before we head into a world cup
31:11
Hopefully we can get some get rid of those clunks
31:14
So I think if we can just continue to play the way black friends is which is fast dynamic
31:20
Keeping the ball alive then we can have a show and
31:23
Having a game against or an awesome game against England and anyone else
31:26
Victor is there interest in the woman's world cup in South Africa?
31:31
Yes, these
31:33
Like I said, I think
31:35
We've got quite a bit of work to do
31:37
Was to be different and so I think and also to get that female heroes and
31:44
I mean a lot of I think our daughters see
31:47
They watch sevens they see the New Zealanders Australians playing the sevens game
31:51
A fantastic way and they look and say maybe that's opportunity first
31:55
But I think in South Africa our grassroots are really slow and the balls have started now a professional setup
32:03
For a club team and I mean they're doing so well and I mean they're beating the other clubs by 50-60 points every week
32:11
Just because they're playing full-time rugby and they they're training every week something
32:16
We need like those years that the girls can look up to and we can see these are athletes doing a fantastic job
32:22
So I think we still need to develop but yeah
32:27
We've put slice the brain over now to help the girls as well and the development there's been so good
32:33
So I think this other team will be competitive and they might surprise one or two teams as well
32:39
Yeah, and it's been fascinating to see Alonamar down here in New Zealand just you know just an Instagram superstar
32:45
But such an incredible person and what she's doing for woman's rugby
32:49
Just bringing so many new fans to the game. Did she do that?
32:52
What she I how did she get this fame through the female game?
32:55
Did she do a couple of other things ricotta?
32:56
You're an america at the same time was she dancing with the stars?
32:59
Was she just really out there? How did she get so many follow?
33:02
I think the key to a liner is she's just a great person and she didn't
33:06
You know, she didn't have a
33:07
Rugbyian telling a what to do and an agent telling a what to do or
33:11
sponsor
33:12
She was just so authentic and she was just so herself and she did an amazing job telling her story at the Olympics
33:18
Just you know, and so obviously the world's eyes were on the Olympics and she was one of the most
33:23
Interesting people at the Olympics and then and then she just took off
33:27
You know sports Illustrator dancing with stars
33:30
But at the heart of it is she's just a good person being herself
33:33
And so she's the most popular rugby player in the world and
33:37
Porsche ran through her a few times to score some tries
33:42
I love that yeah, and she is that what you see on her social media the the character the person everything you see
33:49
On social media is the person in person like she is such a really down-to-earth person
33:54
loves the woman's game loves promoting the game
33:56
Um, and yeah, it all started from the Olympics
33:59
I think she just shared or everything and anything at the Olympics in Tokyo and then it
34:03
Continued in parents and Jacob you played you want to play against Kavanaugh and Fred Woodman
34:09
Yeah, totally those to tear eyes me up in fun today
34:14
Great players. I've also always you know said to Porsche what a what a what a great family of rugby and and like honestly
34:23
When I was when I was a young fella coming up against those boys up north was never ever fun
34:29
Yeah, dad talks about a lot of those stories from those times back at back at Auckland Park and
34:35
Playing against the Auckland crew and how they just had everything and they love to try to get it you guys
34:42
Totally and back in those days, you know, we used to smoke cigarettes after the game and have a few beers and
34:47
And there'd be a punch up on the field. It was a good old days Porsche
34:51
That was
34:53
But there's always always good fun after
34:56
Well, I will build two thirds of this two thirds of this caller watching you all the best at the at the World Cup and
35:03
Hoping you win it
35:04
Not sure I've got Victor
35:06
No, I'll be supporting
35:08
I hope I can get up there. I would love to go watch it
35:11
I mean the previous that World Cup final was so unbelievable and I like about the women's game
35:17
I think the tech still got the upper hand against the things the things aren't
35:21
Uh
35:22
Making it so difficult to attack so it's a great game to watch
35:26
Yeah, yeah, it'll be really cool to get out there
35:29
Um, obviously it's the biggest World Cup that's ever happened so far. So
35:33
Took it in final black friends vs England maybe
35:37
All the best um we'll let you go and thanks so much for your time
35:41
Thank you
35:42
Just now the rugby at the moment you've got the um European champions cups just come to an end with
35:48
Bordone taking it you've got the super heavy coming to an end with you've got the
35:53
Chiefs the Crusaders the rummies at the top there you've got
35:56
Lens to lead in the way in the URC
35:59
BAF Domino English
36:01
Premiership so if we had a World Club Championship this year
36:05
Who do you think the semi finalists would be?
36:08
I think Leicester have a an issue
36:11
Uh with understanding how to
36:14
Lens to have a problem
36:16
I believe
36:17
Functioning under the biggest pressure and they'll learn that right
36:21
But I still think they're an outstanding rugby team. I also think the Chiefs if you saw them against Moana Pacific of the other night
36:28
Um
36:29
When they're in that sort of mood unbelievable and then I I also watch board also for me that jelly bear he can he can play Victor
36:38
Like he is reminds me a little bit of Richie Moana, you know
36:43
Created two tries out of nothing. So they would be the third and then the other couple
36:49
I don't know the last the last one. So that would be my three top at the moment
36:55
Does for me I think Bordone at this stage
36:59
He's just in a different class
37:03
I just spoke about the battle force, but if you look at that backline and if you look at all the top teams
37:10
They need a nine and ten to dominate and look at at the moment and jelly bear
37:16
Um, I must say it's just playing so well
37:20
They're considering the game. They're really expected to the game and then of course
37:25
um, I mean jelly bears got all that um plays
37:29
Up sort of him uh that can score trash from any way those two wingers that's hard again
37:34
Uh just unbelievable and that they've got a pack of food
37:38
For it's a really work art. So um, well deserved to win that trophy. So I think they will definitely be there
37:46
I'm with John limster
37:49
and although they
37:51
Somehow I grew it up at playoff style. I still think they probably over the season. They the best
37:59
Club team in the world
38:01
I think they're making mistakes when it comes to the playoffs. They're almost
38:06
I think they've recently placed too much. Uh, they don't get momentum going into those playoffs
38:13
Where you'll see a full 18 player in a 15 new guys playing the next week, sir
38:18
I just think the way they manage their place on track and that's why when they get to those semi-finals
38:25
Final stages, just don't think they have
38:28
Confusion and that momentum behind them. I think they will be really dangerous in the URC
38:34
Uh, going into the finals now because they don't have to worry about the champions cap
38:39
So they will be difficult
38:41
In the 13 for me
38:43
um
38:44
Will be
38:45
To lose although they lost against um
38:50
Against Bordeaux. I think to lose a store right up there and then the fourth team. I'll also go with the chiefs
38:57
I don't think we're so accurate this stage
39:00
Uh with all our top top guys playing uh
39:03
Outside of South Africa again to the team that can compete with those four teams
39:08
I say
39:09
The chiefs to lose or though
39:12
And links that will be pretty good and then the other team that we shouldn't go away as far off
39:17
um
39:19
The way they've played this weekend
39:21
Uh, I mean, they're running away with the previous ship. They've already finished first with a week to go
39:27
and
39:28
Coast money run for the father. I know really well
39:31
Uh, probably one of the best coaches in the world still a young coach
39:34
But um, they are holding something very special there and also
39:38
Got a nine and ten in the Russell and um
39:42
But it's due at the captain
39:44
Spences or a spencer that's that can
39:48
Uh, managed again really one that's got a backup force that uh can stand up to anyone
39:54
Victor, I see your your chairman came out the other day your
39:58
South Africa chairman saying that we need to concentrate more on the European Cup. Why don't
40:03
Why don't the ERC South African names care about the
40:07
You know the Heineken Cup or the championship, whatever it's called now
40:11
I think to be honest, I think the coaches don't believe they can win that competition yet
40:16
Uh, and anything they believe we've got
40:20
Debt in our squads to compete in both competitions and
40:25
And up till this year we weren't allowed to get a home semi final. So
40:30
I think they just believe if they need to go overseas
40:33
being to lose being left there two weeks in a row and they won't be able to do it. So
40:38
They throw everything towards the URC
40:42
That they believe they can win and I think we can win it as well
40:46
I still think we need to get past links there but
40:49
Like I said as well
40:51
To be honest, I don't think our top teams and although the shops got the team on paper but they're not playing markets
40:58
Uh, we don't really have
41:01
The teams the quality of players and that's just a big problem to compete with those three four top teams uh
41:09
in
41:10
National at the moment
41:12
And is that because you've got so many players in Japan and playing around the world
41:17
Yeah, I mean if you just bring if you take a boost team
41:20
That's playing really well at the moment. That's a second on the lock on the URC
41:25
If you bring back a hundred four or these coming back next week next year you bring back uh JC Creole
41:32
Um, you bring back one or two other guys that's not even that well known
41:37
They met a different team
41:39
Then we can compete with those guys
41:43
I still believe it's like in the old days when we played super rugby in the beginning when we struggled
41:48
Ainaka may always sit if you don't have at least five guys
41:53
That's let's say around about 50 test matches for South Africa if you don't have two three guys
41:58
We need big uh world 15 that's in contention or in the team
42:03
Then there's no chance you can win super rugby and I think at this stage
42:07
The champions cup is the same if you don't know have those star players if you don't have those super stars in your team
42:15
Then you just can't compete with those other teams that do have those super stars in your team
42:19
Victor would you would you change the law? You know very well that New Zealand
42:25
Um has a law that if you have you know if you want to play for the all blacks you've got to play
42:29
In New Zealand. Do you think that's valid
42:33
for
42:34
South Africa. I mean, are you pro or corn?
42:37
So in the beginning in South Africa, I was actually against it
42:41
And because of my background of super rugby and I knew if we lose those top guys and you can't compete
42:48
uh
42:49
Russia's changed my mind
42:51
um
42:53
Firstly, I think a lot of our budget 80% of the South African budget goes to your top 20 plays in South Africa
43:01
all of a sudden
43:03
That's all going overseas and now France, Japan these guys are paying the big salaries for these plays
43:09
All of a sudden there's more money for us to develop our younger place. There's also opportunities
43:15
A lot of these guys won't be playing URC if those top players win South Africa
43:20
So they'll take a year or two before they get the opportunity now they get that opportunity at the younger level. So I think we
43:27
um
43:28
We're working hard on our depth thing
43:30
Um, I always thought
43:32
Especially at provincial level
43:35
You mess up on that IP of those seniors plays because
43:39
um
43:40
The juniors learn more from the place they play with and from the coaches, but somehow we get it back
43:46
Maybe guys pause their beats that comes back and give a lot of that back and then there are other side for the spring box
43:53
I mean i played us three to three and he was really played fast before we went to Japan
43:58
Probably the best playing the world, but we need to go back from Japan with the three years with Sartore and any juniors
44:03
He was a completely different
44:05
And then he was
44:07
20-30 times better than when he was just playing for the moves
44:11
I only see the same things and believing in the same things. So um
44:15
Yeah, I think it was a difficult word
44:17
And if you look at South Korea, if you look at any other
44:21
Professional game. I mean guys you can have earned a money at clubs
44:25
And it should be on a plane for your country. So again, if you look at some of the New Zealand guys
44:32
I follow the Japanese league
44:34
Uh, really closely because I'm helping
44:36
Uh, Eddie Jones leave with a national side. I don't mean
44:39
If you can have no hunger for a zel
44:42
Those two guys are, I mean the impact they've gotten that Japanese league is just under you
44:47
If New Zealand can have just those two guys
44:50
Maybe proledo tell it's still available
44:53
Um, the impact those two players have in the New Zealand side will be massive
44:58
What do you think, Jacob? Um, I think you should earn the right
45:02
So if you've played 50 or 60 tests, let's just decide what
45:06
Um, then maybe we should allow two or three players and it should be merit-based
45:12
So you played 60 or 70 tests then you can go overseas
45:15
I mean, I didn't really consider what Victor said about, you know,
45:19
Freeing up some of that money. I'd say to be the same in New Zealand. You know the top
45:23
The top sort of six or seven players are getting the majority of the money
45:27
Um, I don't I don't understand these sabbaticals these financial sabbaticals
45:31
You know, I know uh Rico, you know, Jordy's gotten overseas
45:35
Um, because for me it's a little bit hypocritical because
45:40
You know, we're resting our super players when they're at home, which I don't think
45:44
Helps the tournament and then but we'll let our top players go away on what I call a financial sabbatical
45:51
Um, to Lentster or to Japan and then they come back and play
45:55
So for me, I struggle with that there's got to be
45:59
I don't struggle it from a player's point of view because I think it's fantastic
46:02
I think Jordy would have loved it. I think Rico
46:05
Like you said before Victor will grow as a person around going over and seeing different
46:11
Countries and stuff
46:12
But from a professional point of view, I don't quite get it for me. It's a little bit hypocritical
46:17
Um, where we protect players in our own competition
46:20
But then they can go overseas and play in the offseason then come back and play for the all blacks
46:24
So I think we need to get rid of this whole rest
46:27
Thing and work out a better way to do it
46:31
Because I think I don't like when they rest all blacks during super rugby because I think it devalues the competition
46:37
That's how I'm on your side as as long as I mean
46:42
Looking at our players the same thing
46:45
You get into the critical time just before the players or even thing
46:50
All of a sudden the springboxer listen we need these guys
46:53
Rest it you want your base players to play in the stock games and
46:58
We were quite a few of the old players who pre-upsed with our unions as well and the champions help
47:03
When you go over for a quarter final or something all of a sudden
47:08
Your five top plays springbox aren't going over to go playing a game
47:12
No, I said it. I mean back in the day in super rugby
47:16
If we went over and we had to go play the Crusaders or
47:19
Earlier days and blues
47:21
You you actually knew the chances of winning was
47:24
Not very big
47:26
But you would say your best thing to go and go together to go
47:30
Don't say the beat even further game away. So
47:33
I still struggle with that spot
47:37
When there's a big challenge when you play the best teams you want your best place to go up there
47:42
All right, gentlemen
47:43
Well, I know you both gonna go up and do your ice baths. So thanks very much for joining us on rivals
47:49
We'll find a few more things that you can agree with them lots of things that you can disagree with
47:54
Thank you very much
47:57
After he does buddy. What is that? What is that drink you drink in South Africa Victor? What's it called?
48:03
Brandy and co
48:06
Shit, mate. It's got ice in that day. I'll be waiting for you when you get out of South Africa
48:13
Nice ice
48:15
But real coach
48:20
No, thank you
48:22
Well, have a nice bath. I'll need to talk to you both about your the second half of your life
48:29
And here you're looking after yourself, but that's for another episode
48:31
Okay, you talk about it