Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 54: Why Isn't She Healing Yet? 3 Myths Men Need to Unlearn

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54: Why Isn't She Healing Yet? 3 Myths Men Need to Unlearn · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

• 0:00
  Hey guys, we're talking about relational repair today and
• 0:02
  we're going to lead into this conversation.
• 0:04
  I invited Hallie Roderick to join me.
• 0:06
  She's going to be helping us lead in intensive in Utah in
• 0:09
  July and invite her to come. And what I'm going to invite you
• 0:12
  to do is look through the lens of healing coming in phases and
• 0:17
  phase #1 is safety and stability.
• 0:19
  And once I have that and myself, then I can lean in relationally.
• 0:23
  So we're going to talk about what's the myths are and invite
• 0:25
  Hallie into that conversation. Anyway, looking forward to
• 0:27
  spending some time with you. Welcome to Beyond the Facade
• 0:32
  podcast. I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and
• 0:35
  I'm thrilled to have you join me in the space today.
• 0:37
  What we're going to be doing is diving deep into the trials and
• 0:39
  triumphs and truths of seeking authenticity.
• 0:43
  Becoming your true self isn't about a single action or a
• 0:45
  moment. It's a relentless pursuit, a
• 0:48
  commitment to self that reveals a rich connection and meaning
• 0:51
  that our life has to offer. So whether this is your first
• 0:54
  time tuning in or you're a regular listener, know this.
• 0:57
  What you're building here goes beyond a conversation.
• 1:00
  You're here to challenge, to change, and to celebrate the
• 1:02
  incredible journey of becoming your authentic self.
• 1:06
  Because when you dare to show up fully, the rewards are
• 1:08
  immeasurable. So welcome to Beyond the Facade.
• 1:11
  Let's get started. So let's jump into it.
• 1:15
  I'm so excited to have Hallie here today.
• 1:17
  We are going to go through and talk about some myths today as
• 1:21
  it relates to something we have coming up here, which is our
• 1:25
  Help Her Heal intensive. Hallie I'm glad to be spending
• 1:28
  some time with. You, Yeah, excited to be here.
• 1:30
  Love to talk about this. So we are going to be going
• 1:33
  through some common myths that get in the way of healing after
• 1:36
  betrayal. All right, So Hallie has her
• 1:39
  helper heal group that she has on a weekly basis and we get
• 1:43
  some awesome feedback that comes from it.
• 1:45
  But what we are going to talk about today is the conversation
• 1:49
  is it directly relates into what we're going to be exploring at a
• 1:52
  deeper level and our intensive coming up in July.
• 1:55
  So we will kind of reference it a few different times.
• 1:57
  But even if you don't intend the intensive, hopefully there's
• 1:59
  some Nuggets in here for you. So we're going to set this up as
• 2:03
  like myths inside of of healing within a relationship.
• 2:08
  All right, So first myth is talking about it just makes
• 2:14
  things worse. OK, Hallie.
• 2:16
  So what I'm thinking about is the guy that's like, I think if
• 2:18
  we just focus on the future, what did the guy say the other
• 2:21
  day? He's like he said the hey, the
• 2:24
  windshield is bigger than the rearview mirror.
• 2:26
  I think was exact words and I get what he was saying, but and
• 2:31
  he was kind of like if we could just move forward.
• 2:33
  So there's that myth talking about it just makes it worse.
• 2:36
  And thoughts on this Hallie? Oh, so many thoughts on this.
• 2:41
  A lot of thoughts on this. I actually hear this come up a
• 2:43
  lot. And I think Speaking of a,
• 2:46
  speaking to this from a betrayed partner lens, thinking about
• 2:51
  just never talking about it again and just moving forward
• 2:54
  feels really scary because for a lot of women in this situation,
• 2:59
  they never thought it was going to happen in the 1st place.
• 3:01
  And so thinking about not ever addressing why we're here where
• 3:06
  we are today and just looking forward actually feels really
• 3:09
  scary. And I hear this too from kind of
• 3:12
  a different perspective of that is that I hear this come up so
• 3:17
  many times in my help or heal group is like, well, things are
• 3:19
  going really good. We're getting along, she's in a
• 3:22
  good place. And so I don't want to talk
• 3:24
  about it because if we talk about it, then we're bringing it
• 3:27
  up again. And why would we talk about it
• 3:30
  if things are good? And so from a betrayed partner
• 3:33
  lens on that as well, that's actually a little bit has some
• 3:38
  fear associated with it too. Was like, is he forgetting that
• 3:41
  I'm still in this pain? And she's trying to like lean
• 3:45
  into allowing herself to feel joy again and to be in the
• 3:49
  relationship again and to allow the trust and the safety to be
• 3:52
  built. But also the pain is still
• 3:55
  there. And when we never talk about it,
• 3:58
  it feels like we're minimizing that or we're ignoring that,
• 4:03
  that that it actually still exists.
• 4:04
  It still happened. What is it like for a partner
• 4:07
  when all of a sudden time goes by and you realize we haven't
• 4:09
  talked, hasn't been talked about for a little bit?
• 4:12
  Is that what you're, is that what you're talking about?
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  Like all of a sudden it's like, uh oh, we got to talk about it
• 4:17
  again so it doesn't happen again.
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  Not necessarily so that it doesn't happen again, but almost
• 4:21
  so that like he doesn't remember how much it hurt.
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  So that like my pain is still there and I'm still, I'm, I'm
• 4:30
  trying really hard to like lean back into this relationship and
• 4:33
  let you rebuild the trust. And so it's not so much that I
• 4:37
  want it. We don't want to like keep
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  bringing it back up. This is what I feel like
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  sometimes the one of the myths too is that if she brings it
• 4:43
  back up again, it's because she wants to just keep throwing it
• 4:46
  back in your face and she wants to keep living in the past.
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  I've never ever met a betrayed partner that wouldn't like just
• 4:52
  as much as the one that has betrayed.
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  You have to think about it again.
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  Oh. My gosh, right.
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  I would love that. And so there's also this concept
• 5:01
  of moving towards the pain when there's pain there, instead of
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  ignoring it, let's step towards it, move towards it, talk about
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  it, bring it out into the light, hold space for it, and then we
• 5:14
  get to move through it more quickly and more in a more
• 5:17
  supported, relational way. So Kim Brown, I don't know if
• 5:21
  she originated this, I don't know if she originated this
• 5:25
  little trigger tip, but she says, hey, just remember that
• 5:28
  your partner's trigger, your partner's trigger is her
• 5:32
  vulnerable attempt at connection.
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  I just love that so much because there's an invitation there that
• 5:38
  exist to attune to your partner. And it depends on the lens.
• 5:41
  I look at it because I I get it. Like I often felt like if we
• 5:45
  talk about the stuff, we're just re traumatizing her.
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  We're just this is this escalation can't be good.
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  And just noticing like attachment styles, like it's so
• 5:54
  common that this is an attachment injury and we have
• 5:58
  two different attachment styles, which is one that's anxious, the
• 6:02
  person that's been betrayed, a lot of anxiety around this and
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  then a lot of avoidance from a person who's been betraying.
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  And then they think avoidance is actually it's.
• 6:12
  Well, it's just really problematic.
• 6:14
  It's self protect and unhealthy mode of self protection, but
• 6:19
  definitely those two attachment styles together create a lot of
• 6:24
  problems. Yeah, there there is one note
• 6:27
  here that I had for myself, which was silence doesn't
• 6:30
  protect her. It disconnects you.
• 6:33
  And hot man, doesn't it seem like sometimes silence is like
• 6:37
  the I'm speaking to the person that did the betraying
• 6:40
  sometimes. And it just seem like silence is
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  probably the best case and best case is probably the best thing
• 6:47
  to do because if I talk, I'll just make it worse.
• 6:50
  But it doesn't. That's just where the
• 6:51
  disconnection and it just makes it worse.
• 6:53
  Yeah, Yep, I hear that a lot too.
• 6:56
  I don't even know what to say, so I just don't say anything.
• 6:58
  And I'm hoping that me not saying anything will just make
• 7:00
  it go away. Yeah, just move on.
• 7:03
  She'll get through it without me.
• 7:05
  So one of the things that we we're going to practice at the
• 7:08
  intensive is how to stay in those hard conversations without
• 7:11
  shutting down and spiraling and shame.
• 7:14
  So we're going to spend a lot of time practicing it because what
• 7:17
  we want men to take from this intensive is what does this
• 7:20
  actually look like? What should I be measuring?
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  So the second myth is if I show emotion, then this will make it
• 7:29
  all about me. And I think that, I mean, I'm
• 7:34
  not a man, so I don't know, maybe you could speak better
• 7:36
  than this one. Look, men fear if they show
• 7:41
  emotions, that they will look weak or needy or that it will
• 7:45
  feel like their spouse will think they're trying to
• 7:47
  manipulate them. And so I think that there's so
• 7:51
  much confusion in that. And then I also hear it go to
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  the other extreme is like the only time I ever can get any
• 7:59
  sort of positive response from my spouse is if I cry.
• 8:03
  So sometimes I cry so that I will get a better response, but
• 8:06
  it's still a manipulation. And so that I actually think
• 8:11
  emotion, showing emotion is not weak.
• 8:13
  It's actually a sign of strength to actually show your emotions.
• 8:17
  So I don't know from a man's perspective, like what would you
• 8:20
  say to that one? Yeah, I, I think it's spot on.
• 8:22
  We have a black and we have a we can stay in cognitive
• 8:25
  distortions, black or white thinking with this, which is if
• 8:27
  I'm supposed to be healthy and show emotions as a man, that
• 8:30
  means I'm like sharing it and I'm falling down and making her
• 8:34
  pick me back up. That's not healthy.
• 8:35
  That's not all we want. The exact offset is I shut down
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  and I don't do anything and then I'm closed off to her and I
• 8:42
  don't show any emotion because it's just we only have space for
• 8:45
  her emotion. But neither one of those are
• 8:46
  true. So if I think about, I don't
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  know possible, possible reframe for this is the words that are
• 8:55
  coming up here are self-contained and attuned,
• 8:58
  which is all right. I'm, I know what's happening
• 9:01
  inside of me. I can, I'm at least going to
• 9:04
  voice it and say it, but I'm not putting that on my partner.
• 9:09
  And then through that, there's some attunement, which is I'm
• 9:11
  open and I'm vulnerable by my experience, but that's not
• 9:14
  somebody else's responsibility. And then that way I'm not
• 9:18
  wrapped up in my stuff and I can actually see my partner because
• 9:21
  Hallie, I don't know if this is funny or not.
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  So if you could help me out with this, but I think it can be
• 9:26
  funny later into the journey, but we'll, I'll get the
• 9:31
  opportunity to speak to to the betrayed partner, whether in a
• 9:34
  group setting or one-on-one. And we'll talk about the four
• 9:37
  pieces of recovery that she needs to watch for.
• 9:41
  And one of them is its vulnerability.
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  And she'd be like, I want that if he could be vulnerable and
• 9:47
  let me in, that would be amazing along with transparency.
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  And then there is this kind of like, and Alana talks about
• 9:54
  this. I'm getting Alana's words here
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  because this I'm nervous about how this comes across, but she's
• 10:01
  like when I saw Luke show vulnerable, I wanted that until
• 10:04
  I saw and then when I saw it, it was like, whoa, I want him to be
• 10:08
  strong and that kind of stuff. So just recognizing
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  vulnerability, the outcome that's it can be later.
• 10:15
  The positive effects that how you want to clean that up at
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  all. No, but I just keep thinking
• 10:21
  about this. This comes up in my helper heal
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  groups too is they're like she says she wants me vulnerable but
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  I actually don't really think she does because when I am
• 10:29
  vulnerable I don't think she likes it.
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  But I think it goes back to what you were talking about before
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  is, is your vulnerability you showing up with emotion and
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  expecting her or wanting her to fix it?
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  Or is it you showing up just being honest and transparent
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  about something that you're experiencing and allowing her
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  the opportunity to witness it, but without any sort of ulterior
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  motive or expectation there with it?
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  And I think that's kind of defines the difference.
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  I love. That thank you.
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  I don't need you to fix this. I'm just sharing something that
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  I've experienced or that I've learned or that it come up
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  because I want you to be able to fully see and fully know me,
• 11:06
  step into that intimacy. But I'm not needing you to fix
• 11:09
  this. Yeah, and it's like being
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  present with somebody but not allowing them to see you, but
• 11:16
  still keeping responsibility thin self.
• 11:19
  And I think at an example of that is we'll go into often like
• 11:22
  scripts and like and how what scripts look like here and how
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  they're so hurtful and sometimes just a part of the process.
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  And I think about, OK, I'm with my partner and I don't know how
• 11:35
  to respond. I'm just like, it's gone.
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  I don't even know what the right response is.
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  What does vulnerability look like?
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  It's sharing, like, I don't even know what to say right now.
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  I want to be with you in this and nothing's coming to mind.
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  And that's not your responsibility, that's mine.
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  It's allowing that person to be able to see you in that.
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  So I just think about the emotion tied to that experience.
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  Like I'm embarrassed because I don't know what the right words
• 12:02
  are right now, but I'm not like hey, you need to make me feel
• 12:05
  better about this. And that also just on the flip
• 12:08
  side of that fixing it coin, sometimes when your betrayed
• 12:11
  spouse is sharing something painful with you, there isn't an
• 12:15
  actual accurate correct response.
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  It makes me think of that Brené Brown, she has an empathy video
• 12:21
  and she said the one of the characters in the video says, I
• 12:25
  don't even know what to say right now, but I'm so glad that
• 12:27
  you told me. And like, sometimes when your
• 12:30
  wife is bringing pain to you, it doesn't actually, she doesn't.
• 12:34
  There's nothing you can do to fix it.
• 12:35
  It is just being there in that space with her.
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  And thank you so much for sharing that with me.
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  And building that space. So it's not even about saying
• 12:43
  the right thing. Sometimes it's more about the
• 12:44
  presence. Yeah.
• 12:46
  Yeah. And just so just notice the
• 12:48
  intention. So what we're going to do in the
• 12:50
  intensive is we're going to spend a decent amount of time
• 12:53
  going through and learning exactly how to step into the
• 12:55
  space. What does it look like to share
• 12:57
  emotions but not put them on our partner?
• 13:00
  What am I responsible for? Am I responsible for emotions,
• 13:04
  Responsible for my? What am I responsible for here?
• 13:07
  We're going to take a quick break for a moment.
• 13:09
  I want to let you know of some things that we have coming up at
• 13:11
  Choose Recovery Services. Hey friends, it's Hallie
• 13:14
  Roderick here and I wanted to personally invite you to an
• 13:17
  incredible opportunity coming up this summer from July 8th to
• 13:21
  11th. Luke Gordon and I will be Co
• 13:23
  facilitating a help her heal intensive for men in Spanish
• 13:26
  Fork, UT. And if you're a man who's
• 13:28
  serious about rebuilding trust, creating emotional safety.
• 13:31
  And doing the deep. Work of repair after betrayal.
• 13:34
  This space is created specifically for you.
• 13:37
  This Four day Intensive is not a lecture series.
• 13:40
  It's a deeply experiential process designed to help you
• 13:43
  feel the shift, not just understand it intellectually.
• 13:47
  Together, we'll explore powerful tools and practices to help you
• 13:50
  develop real empathy, shame, resiliency, and a clear
• 13:54
  understanding of betrayal trauma so you can begin to show up as a
• 13:57
  safe, trustworthy partner again. You'll also have the opportunity
• 14:02
  to connect with other men who are on the same path.
• 14:05
  Men also committed to growth their integrity, doing the hard
• 14:09
  work and the beautiful work of relationship repair.
• 14:12
  So whether you're just beginning this process or you're well on
• 14:14
  your way, this intensive can be a powerful next step in your
• 14:18
  journey towards healing. So if you're ready to move
• 14:20
  forward, we'd love to have you join us.
• 14:23
  So to learn more or to reserve your spot, check out the show
• 14:27
  notes where you'll find a link to reach out to our office.
• 14:30
  So let's do this work together. Hope to see you in Utah.
• 14:32
  Well. Let's get back to our episode.
• 14:36
  OK, next myth. So this is the one is myth #3 I
• 14:41
  just want her to see how. I just wanted to see how I'm
• 14:45
  doing. Good.
• 14:48
  Oh my goodness. Just so much comes up with this,
• 14:51
  especially in those moments of dysregulation.
• 14:54
  It's makes so much sense for my partner, especially if they're
• 14:58
  saying something about how I'm going about my journey to go.
• 15:02
  Like, OK, but can you see how I'm actually improving?
• 15:06
  So there's so many times that we want to validate ourselves by
• 15:10
  showing like what I'm doing well, and that's a reflex that
• 15:14
  usually, not usually it shows up and it hurts the relationship
• 15:20
  and it hurts the person who's doing it and it hurts the person
• 15:23
  they're doing it to. Because technically that healthy
• 15:27
  conflict, basically that feedback is an opportunity for
• 15:31
  intimacy. And if I'm trying to escape
• 15:34
  reality, then it's going to be really problematic, yeah.
• 15:38
  It makes me think of when a betrayed spouse is activated
• 15:42
  about something and there may not actually be acting out
• 15:45
  happening right now, but the trigger is about something that
• 15:49
  has happened in the past. And so sometimes the instinct
• 15:52
  for the one who has betrayed is to go, but that's not what's
• 15:54
  happening. That's not what I'm doing.
• 15:56
  That's not what's going on right now.
• 15:57
  And can't you see that this isn't what's happening?
• 16:00
  And actually the activation and the fear isn't maybe necessarily
• 16:04
  about what's happening right now, but it's about what
• 16:06
  happened in the past. And so giving them evidence of
• 16:10
  what you're doing right now doesn't actually fix the trigger
• 16:14
  that is about something that happened before.
• 16:16
  You're trying to meet an emotional state with logic and
• 16:19
  it just doesn't mesh that way. It misses.
• 16:22
  It just misses the whole opportunity.
• 16:24
  You don't have a tune with somebody through logic, right?
• 16:26
  Yeah, a lot of times in this recovery journey, a wife's
• 16:30
  ability to actually empathize with her spouse is way like
• 16:36
  phase three, like beyond like in the post traumatic girls are
• 16:40
  right before that phase, before a wife is able to be the one
• 16:43
  that can turn around and empathize with her spouse.
• 16:45
  So looking for that validation from her early on is you're
• 16:50
  looking in the wrong places. Like you need to find that
• 16:53
  internal validation and you know, you talk through your with
• 16:57
  your coach or your therapist or your group and you learn to turn
• 17:01
  that internal validation. It comes from a place from
• 17:03
  within and not needing it from your spouse because she actually
• 17:07
  doesn't have the capacity to give it early on.
• 17:10
  She doesn't have the capacity to give it No, that's what if.
• 17:14
  That's hard to wrap my head around because it feels like she
• 17:19
  does. And I validate that because a
• 17:23
  lot of times maybe she is naturally empathetic, but when
• 17:27
  her pain is so great and the person that she thought she
• 17:29
  could trust the most, all of a sudden she doesn't even feel
• 17:32
  like she knows him. She's questioning everything
• 17:35
  about him. And so the work that you're
• 17:38
  doing is stuff that a lot of times, maybe not always, but a
• 17:42
  lot of times, she assumed you were doing before.
• 17:45
  And then to realize that you actually weren't doing things
• 17:48
  that were going to keep hers protected and safe and the
• 17:50
  relationship protected and safe, she thought those things were
• 17:53
  happening. So now when she finds out, they
• 17:55
  aren't. It's.
• 17:57
  She doesn't know whether or not she can trust you.
• 17:59
  So actually the new changed behavior, the new version of
• 18:03
  you, she's probably not going to trust for a while.
• 18:07
  So if you're constantly looking for her validation for your
• 18:10
  gross, you're going to be in trouble because she needs to see
• 18:13
  that consistent recovery type behavior, trust building,
• 18:17
  safety, creating behavior with consistency over time before her
• 18:21
  brain is actually even going to allow her to consider that it
• 18:24
  might be real. I kind of almost want to invite
• 18:26
  you to, like, pause that episode here for a second once I ask
• 18:29
  this question and tell me what comes to mind before we talk
• 18:33
  about it, which is, if I just want her to see how good I'm
• 18:37
  doing, how is that problematic? What patterns does that continue
• 18:42
  to keep going? And why is it so important that
• 18:46
  she recognizes that? Why does it matter so much?
• 18:49
  And yeah. That's a really good question.
• 18:52
  I think the first thing I know you told me we should pause, but
• 18:56
  the first thing that comes to mind is like unhealthy patterns
• 18:59
  before. It makes me think of like the
• 19:02
  independent, codependent, interdependent dynamics of
• 19:06
  relationships. And we, if we're constantly
• 19:11
  needing someone else's approval, how are we ever going to be OK
• 19:17
  within our own skin? And we'll just step back into
• 19:21
  old unhealthy patterns, which those are the things we're
• 19:24
  trying to pull away from. And so there's actually this
• 19:28
  really uncomfortable part of recovery work.
• 19:30
  I think it can be uncomfortable of where we kind of have to like
• 19:34
  separate, whether that means like literally physically
• 19:36
  separating, but doing our own individual work doesn't always
• 19:40
  mean moving out or anything like that, but do moving into an
• 19:43
  individual space where we are doing our own individual work.
• 19:46
  So that both of us can become secure in knowing our identity,
• 19:52
  knowing who we are outside of the relationship, so that as we
• 19:57
  work to step back into the relational dynamic in a
• 20:00
  different way. That we are there as a support
• 20:04
  for each other, but not as like a needing role.
• 20:06
  Like I need her to be OK in order for me to be OK.
• 20:11
  Yeah. I don't know.
• 20:12
  What would you add? I just build on that.
• 20:15
  If I find myself going, she, you know, my partner shows up and
• 20:20
  says something that she's noticing that I need to be doing
• 20:22
  more of less of different than I can be easily distracted with.
• 20:29
  I can be distracted with, well, what about the things that I'm
• 20:32
  doing? Why can't we be talking about
• 20:33
  that? But what's actually happening
• 20:36
  there? Why is my brain doing that?
• 20:37
  Why is it distracted from what she's saying and moving over to
• 20:41
  this other piece? So we know that like deflection
• 20:46
  means there's something there at the surface.
• 20:47
  So why is that so painful? Why in that moment?
• 20:50
  One thing that comes up for me as you are talking about that is
• 20:53
  I, and I hear this from the guys in my Group A lot, is that when
• 20:57
  she comes to you and is saying I need more of this or I, this is
• 21:01
  problematic for me or whatever, it feels like criticism and
• 21:04
  attack. And so they take it personally
• 21:06
  like she's criticizing and attacking.
• 21:07
  And it goes back to what you were talking about that Kim
• 21:10
  Brown said it's actually a bid for connection.
• 21:13
  She's seeking safety. She's seeking reassurance.
• 21:16
  And so it's this kind of tricky dynamic is she's looking for
• 21:20
  safety and security and reassurance, and you're feeling
• 21:24
  like you're getting attacked. And so being able to hold space
• 21:27
  for the fact that she's looking for safety and security.
• 21:29
  If you sink into shame or you sink into defense or you know,
• 21:33
  like, say, hey, but look at all this stuff, you're minimizing
• 21:36
  this. And we're missing a really big
• 21:38
  opportunity for connection and growth.
• 21:41
  Yeah, yeah. In those dysregulated moments, I
• 21:44
  don't want to to share with me something that she's aware of
• 21:47
  that I'm not because all my stuff comes up.
• 21:50
  But it's really important we're in a relationship to be open and
• 21:53
  see what the other person sees. That's something that I value.
• 21:58
  So let me just let's speak for a moment.
• 22:01
  This is going to be another piece of what's 1 of the hardest
• 22:04
  things for us to be able to work through is how do we measure the
• 22:08
  transformative parts of the intensive.
• 22:10
  So we're going to walk through how to let go of the need to be
• 22:13
  seen as like good and we're going to try to take that power
• 22:17
  back from our partner. Not that they took it from us or
• 22:19
  they wanted that, but that's not, that's my opportunity to
• 22:24
  notice inside myself and measure that instead of always rely on
• 22:28
  somebody else to tell me whether I'm enough or not.
• 22:30
  We're going to pull that back. That's a big one.
• 22:35
  Any other thoughts there, Hallie?
• 22:37
  No, I just love it. It's just one of those things
• 22:39
  that we're going to look at what some of your roadblocks are to
• 22:42
  being able to have empathy to create that safety going
• 22:46
  forward, and that's a big one. So here's these myths back to
• 22:49
  you one more time, and then we'll wrap this out.
• 22:51
  So myth #1 talking about things just makes it worse.
• 22:55
  It doesn't. That's actually going to create
• 22:59
  groundedness, One, facing those hard emotions, and it's going to
• 23:03
  be something that we practice. That second myth is if I show
• 23:07
  emotion, I'll make it about me. No being emotionally attuned to
• 23:11
  your partner, but first knowing your own emotions and let them
• 23:14
  be seen, but not putting on them.
• 23:15
  It's a big deal. Putting that on your partner is
• 23:17
  a big deal. And then the third myth is I
• 23:20
  just want her to see how good I'm doing.
• 23:22
  That's that. That's going to create trust and
• 23:25
  safety if she can notice the good things that I'm doing.
• 23:28
  And so those are the things we're going over.
• 23:31
  And any other thoughts, Ally? No, I just, I love all of our
• 23:35
  intensives that we do at choose, but for some reason, I'm really
• 23:38
  excited about this one because one reason why, and this is true
• 23:42
  for the guys that come to my help Her heal group too, is like
• 23:45
  they're there because they truly want to understand.
• 23:48
  They want to repair the relationship.
• 23:50
  And so I love to be in the work with people who are wanting to
• 23:54
  be there, like want to be in the work.
• 23:56
  And that is what and one of the coolest things we do at our
• 23:59
  intensives at Choose Recovery Services is we don't just stand
• 24:02
  there and talk at you for three or four days, but we get you in
• 24:06
  experiences so that you feel what it feels like, so that you
• 24:09
  have real life applicable experiences and tools and skills
• 24:13
  to go home and then put back into real life practice in your
• 24:17
  relationship. So I'm really looking forward to
• 24:19
  this and hope that some of you listening will if you feel
• 24:22
  stuck, come join us. And we are going to make it a
• 24:25
  part to include on the front end, the back end, the partner.
• 24:29
  So we want to have them know what we're getting into and what
• 24:32
  we're getting out of it and make sure that they feel that they're
• 24:34
  a part of things. Even though it's not made for
• 24:36
  the couple themselves, they feel like they're a part of that
• 24:39
  experience, knowing what to expect.
• 24:42
  So reach out with questions and excited to spend some time with
• 24:44
  you. Yeah, see you in.
• 24:46
  See you in Utah. Yeah.
• 24:47
  See you in Utah. Hey, thanks for joining us
• 24:52
  today. If this is something that you
• 24:53
  connected with, I'd love to meet with you more and talk about it.
• 24:57
  So what you can do is go to chooserecoveryservices.com or
• 25:00
  check the show notes and there what we can do is set up a quick
• 25:03
  conversation. Thanks so much for listening to
• 25:06
  Beyond the Facade where we unmask the authentic cell.