Latest / Healing Her Story with Riva Jean-Paul / The Fear of Being Seen: Why Your Nervous System Was Wired to Hide

Transcript

The Fear of Being Seen: Why Your Nervous System Was Wired to Hide · Healing Her Story with Riva Jean-Paul

• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to today's episode of the Healing Her Story podcast.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are gathering for a solo episode, and I'm really excited to be following these threads of Leo season with you.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And as we are moving through Leo season, one of the threads that I'm following personally, and a thread that I want to weave in here on the show, is this idea of being seen.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: What it means to put ourselves out there, to let people witness us in our authentic, expressive form.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I do want to acknowledge at the top of this conversation that this is or can be so much easier said than done.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's really easy to say, put yourself out there, take the risk, show up.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: But the reality is there's a lot of charge here for most of us.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think what actually separates people who get seen more from people who don't isn't the absence of fear.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's maybe more of a comfortability with the uncomfortable, or at least an allowing of the discomfort.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to weave this in here because I think it's important to acknowledge where so many of us are.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Then from there, I really want to normalize the discomfort itself.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because, do you know why?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you've been here a while, this is a beautiful, wise, healthy, protective strategy that your system has created.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And there's actually research to back this up.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna share some of that research, and then to bring our conversation to a close, I will share some more about my experience with being seen.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, I'm gonna offer some really practical tools that you can explore and play with as we're moving through Leo season.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, first let's start with the few statistics that I could find around public speaking, anxiety, sharing our opinions, so maybe noticing if any of these resonate with you as you're listening.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Public speaking anxiety consistently shows up higher in women than men.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Surveys put it around 44% of women reporting fear of public speaking compared to 37%.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Not a huge difference, but a difference.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: When researchers look specifically at glossophobia as a diagnosable specific phobia, the gap is even wider.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Roughly 12% of women meet criteria versus six percent of men, so women are about twice as likely.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that's fairly significant.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you don't resonate with public speaking.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: What's interesting about this next statistic so that it's not uh just on the stage.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: A 2024 UK study on gender and online participation found only 23% of women feel comfortable expressing political opinions online compared to a 40% of men.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that one is interesting.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: There it is, almost doubling again.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: 23% of women don't feel comfortable expressing political opinions online.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe taking a moment to reflect on hmm, am I part of that 23%?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Even more research came out, same research showed that 59% of women say fear of online backlash makes them less likely to share their opinions at all.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: And 54% say it makes them less likely to share photos of themselves.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Just taking a moment to let that one land, that feels pretty significant.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Over half of women are afraid to post their opinions online because they're afraid of the backlash that they make it.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And over half of women are less likely to share photos of themselves online.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: One more here.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: A 2025 principal foundation survey found 45% of women say fear of being judged stops them from talking openly about money compared to 33% of men.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And while we're not talking about money here, it is certainly interesting to see this overarching thread of fear of judgment and not sharing because of that fear, and all of that affecting women much more than it's affecting men.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: So if you find yourself in any of these statistics, wherever you may be, first of all, is okay.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And second of all, this episode really is here for you if you find that you are one of those many women out there.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope that from these statistics you can gather that you're not alone and that this is something that really common, especially for women.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it's something to get real curious about.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And part of me also understands that this, I'm sure, has a lot to do with the overculture, with the patriarchal society in which we live in, where women clearly aren't feeling safe enough to show up and share their authentic selves and be seen because they're afraid of what's gonna happen.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Which is a beautiful segue into some sort of research and psychoeducation that can really help to normalize this very real fear that we have.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Back in, let's say, before modern times, being seen could quite literally get you killed in one of two ways.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: The threat detection systems in our brain, especially the amygdala, evolve to catch danger and to catch it fast.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is from predators, yes, bears, big animals, dinosaurs, saber-toothed tigers, and also from other tribes.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And there's also ostracism, where someone is outcasted from a tribe.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: This carries its own sort of death sentence, too, because for early humans, being cast out of a group or tribe meant losing the protection and the resources that you needed to survive.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So the nervous system learned these two lessons at once that being spotted by a predator could kill you, and being too much or not meeting the social norms and being rejected by your tribe because of it could also kill you.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And these beautiful, wise, adaptive strategies were created in some of the oldest, earliest parts of our nervous system.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the reality is that our biology has not developed to the level in which our modern world has developed.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so many of these old adaptive strategies that were created in a time where they were needed and helpful are maybe not so helpful in the modern day that we are in now.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so there is a bit of we rewiring that may need to happen here.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Not saying that you need rewiring, but there's kind of like a yeah, there's there's something that's gonna kind of recalibrate inside, knowing that this is how our systems operate for good intention, for right reason.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: What's also interesting to consider is that the cue for physical pain uses the same sort of wiring for being rejected.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Research out of the University of Michigan found that the same brain regions that light up during physical pain also activate during intense social rejection.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So when your body braces at the thought of being seen, which I think is really more about the risk of being rejected, it's not just you overreacting because your brain, your body, your nervous system is processing it in the same exact way as physical pain.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And our bodies, they're so beautiful and wise and miraculous.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: All they're doing is trying to keep us safe, all they're doing is trying to prevent us from experience from experiencing pain and discomfort.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so it makes sense that your body would give you the cues that this isn't a safe situation because the way it's registering the experience is being registered the same way physical pain would.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you might be able to gather now that this isn't.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you might be able to gather now that this isn't just a mindset problem that you can think your way out of.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if someone tells you that, send them this episode.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because what's underneath that is a nervous system response.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And when we can look at it in that way, when we can see that this is a response rooted in the nervous system rather than some sort of belief, and I'm not saying our thoughts and our beliefs don't matter because they definitely do, but you can't outthink your biology, you can't outthink an old survival response that was created in the oldest part of our nervous system.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can support it and use tools and get more comfortable with it, but thinking in a way isn't going to change it.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: What changes it is us building a capacity.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what's so beautiful about somatic work is that it does help us to build this capacity for discomfort, and it also does support this recalibration that slowly teaches the system that it's okay to be seen.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe not always, but perhaps in the right situations.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is also for far more common than I think women realize.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Estimates suggest that up to 70% of people experience imposter syndrome at some point.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it shows up more in women than in men.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: One survey of medical and health science students found it in nearly 38% of women versus 22% of men.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's also this thread of polyvagal theory 2, which I know is getting an update right now.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have to do maybe an episode on that one day.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I bring it in here because it really does speak to how somatic work can really be a way through.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Stephen Porge's framework describes the nervous system shifting between states depending on perceived safety through the ventral vagal, rest and digest part of our system, versus the more protective states, the fight or flight, the shutdown, freeze, fawn.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why so many women go quiet, pull back, or freeze in the exact moment that they're invited to be seen.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And fawning is actually a lot more common in women.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of, I don't want to say it's our default, but I think it's where more of us tend to more easily fall.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: So again, when we look at it in this way, can you maybe see that it's not a weakness?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's not something wrong with you, it's your body doing her job.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: How amazing is that?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if this is touching on something for you here, can you maybe take a moment to acknowledge your body and that beautiful, wise system and all the ways in which she does her absolute best to keep you safe?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if we do want to show up and be seen, maybe we want to put ourselves out there creatively, maybe you want to step into a leadership role, maybe you have a big dream for your life or a business.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: It does require us to show up and be seen.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm now gonna share a little bit about my personal experience with this.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I feel like I've been in a journey of been on a journey of being seen for a very long time in my work that I do creatively and also with the work I do here.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, as promised, we're gonna end with some practical tools you can explore as well.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: So be sure to stay for that.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, being seen really did start with performance art, and my performance art began as a hula hoop dancer, and I think pretty quickly upon starting, I was just so excited by what was happening that I I wanted to share.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember when I first started really engaging more deeply in performance art and what it meant to put myself out there and let people in on what I was doing and sharing that.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: For me, all that was all in good fun.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I'll admit, I had a lot of courage that came.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's call it false courage that came in the form of drugs and alcohol.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think for a period there I was probably I not probably, I was numb to what was happening.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so for a period of time I enjoyed it.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now, where it started to get sticky and more complicated for me was as I started to carry along further along my path, it became more about letting my authentic self be seen.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because for so many years I was masking and numbing, and a lot of the times I was showing up as who I thought people wanted me to be, and I wasn't always being true to myself.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a lot of where my resistance from being seen came from was not fully letting all of me be seen, still feeling like there was a part of me that I needed to hide.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And being seen meant that I could risk that part of me being seen.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Back when I was running my hula hoop business and working in the fitness industry, I was living almost this sort of double life.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Showing up Monday through Friday as a fitness fitness instructor and personal trainer, and then partying on the weekends, most of the time drinking and using drugs.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: There was such an incoherence between those two lives that I didn't want to be seen sometimes.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I just wanted to hide.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly trying to hide it from myself too.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking with someone recently about this period of my life, and I remember I would go to the farmer's market, and I still go to the farmer's market, and then during this season, I hated running into people.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: I still run into people all the time.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Depends on who the person is now, Dave's.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: But back then I just didn't like running into anyone at all.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this was because of my own incoherence with myself over time.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: As I met those parts of myself and became more comfortable with them, really getting to know and understand the different parts of me.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: It became easier to be seen.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I minded it less because I could see all of me in me.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that shift was significant, and it points to something deeper.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Our bodies remember what we've been through, and they carry what our ancestors have been through too.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And there's also this piece of us being our authentic selves for ourselves first before doing that with other people.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it reminds me of this conversation with Dr.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Tavina Lin on belonging, and she asked me what belonging means to me.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I talked about belonging being something that we experience inside of ourselves because we've learned to accept and we've integrated all of these different parts of ourselves, and that creates this coherence, this settling, this sense of being okay.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: And as we start to be more okay and more comfortable in our own selves, in our own skin, then in my experience, it makes it so much easier to be able to show up in that same way with other people as well.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like what really helps with this is practice, practice, practice, practice.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And something that was really supportive for me, especially in regards to my creativity, was doing studio art critiques in my studio art classes that I took at the local community college here, getting ready for my master's program.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was in studio art classes for about a year, and I remember the first time we were asked to do a critique, going into the front of the room and sharing what you made with a class.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember the first, I mean, I don't know if I ever stopped being a little nervous, I think.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like what we've been speaking to, I was always a little uncomfortable.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the first one I was terrified, I was shaking, my voice was shaking, my hands were clamming, I was like planning what I'd say in my head, like right up to the moment.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I had that experience again and again and again and again throughout the semester.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And each time something really beautiful happened, I would receive these reflections.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: People would show me parts of myself that they saw in the art.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And most of the time it was received well.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: No one ever laughed, no one ever told me it sucked.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: There might have been a few people offering me some unsolicited advice, but other Than that, I was okay.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes, because of our biology, we sometimes make these moments out to be so much worse than they actually can be.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's not to say that they all go well, because sometimes it might not go well.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I think sometimes that fear is more psychological than it is an actual real thing that happens.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: With each time, I did notice that it got a little easier, or rather, I became more comfortable with the discomfort of it.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: I remember my last critique.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was the most uncomfortable critique of all because it was for a 3D sculpture class, and we had to create a wearable sculpture, and it had to be a statement piece.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Can you guess what I did my project on?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I made a menstrual cycle dress.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's a beautiful piece.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: I still stand by it, I still have it.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to refine it further one day, maybe with someone who actually knows garment construction to help with the sewing.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: But regardless, I made the sculpture, super happy with it, and I wore that dress stained in what actually looked like blood.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: I did use paint instead of real blood.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: I debated using real blood, but I went with paint for many reasons, and I the way I painted it, it looked like blood.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like because it was such a it's a taboo, and knowing that I had to wear it in front of the class, yeah, it it brought up like a new level of discomfort in my system.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: It probably was one of the strongest experiences I've ever had.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing that I did to support myself in that moment was instead of speaking from the heart in real time, because we were asked to speak about our sculpture, like I usually would have done, I read my prepared artist statement instead.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: The physical sensations were just too overwhelming for me to for me to be able to just go with it in the moment.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a layer of support for me that that really helped me to get through it.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I just told the class, this is why I'm reading from this today.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And also I wanted to be hurt the way I wanted to be heard, not in a way that maybe wasn't the exact right word.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So this practice of showing up for these art critiques really seasoned me.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And this was, I will say, during a time of my life where I'm no longer coping with the same addictive strategies, and I I'm not numb anymore.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: I can feel and be in the full experience of what it means to be in that discomfort.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really grateful that I was able to have this experience as this new version of myself to actually feel it.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this carries into the leadership, the teaching that I do now, standing in front of groups of students, doing public speaking in front of strangers.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: And over time, it's gotten easier, and it's gotten easier because of the two things I've already spoken to.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: One, I've become more myself, and two, I've met and made peace with all the different parts of me, which creates this inner cohesion.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not hiding anything, so there's less to brace against.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the friction people feel comes from trying to present a version of themselves designed to be liked.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, that feels uncomfortable because you're performing instead of just being.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you might be wondering, how do I get more comfortable with being?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: How do I begin to meet and make peace with all these different parts of me?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Chances are, if you're here, you're already on your path doing that.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: And what I'm gonna offer here are just a few tools that you can start to weave in if you feel like it would be supportive for you as we're moving through Leo season.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing that I'm gonna offer you is a somatic meditation practice, and this is a somatic meditation for confidence.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is a free meditation, donation-based meditation over on Insight Timer.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I won't speak too much about the process, I'll let you go on and explore that meditation.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if you'd like, you're welcome to leave me a comment over on Insight Timer and let me know how your experience is.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: But essentially, this is helping you to build more of that self-trust.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's helping your body to remember all of the ways in which you have already succeeded and helping to really anchor those experiences into the body and into the nervous system so that you have a you have a somatic imprint for what this experience is like.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing that I'll offer here, or rather, I'll share a tool that was really helpful for me, was somatic breath work.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: What's great about somatic breath work is that it helps to shift your heart rate variability over time, allowing you to tolerate more stress, allowing you to be present with more discomfort, and also creating that pathway from being in a more active, uncomfortable state, and then being able within a few minutes to come back into a rest and digest state.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: So helping to your nervous system to become more flexible and more adaptable so that in these moments of being seen, you've had good practice with okay, I feel that feeling in my chest and my hands, and I can feel it and it's a little uncomfortable, but I know how to stay with it without checking out.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're curious about somatic breath work, I have lots of blog posts and information pages on my website.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you can check out my website, you can find that in the show notes if you're curious to learn more about breath work.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last thing that I'll offer here is this idea of holding the tension.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a teaching from Red School, and what it talks about is what I was just sort of naming here is learning how to hold that tension because the tension, I don't know that it ever goes away.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think we just get better learning how to work with it, and so starting to play with what's it like to hold that tension in your system, the discomfort in your chest, the quickening of your heart, the wherever you experience it, what's that like to stay with it, even if it's just for a little bit at first?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is something that we really have to get used to.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: If we want to be a fully empowered woman in this patriarchal world, we can't just be soft and sweet and passive all of the time.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: We do need to learn how to hold that tension.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, some much deeper exploration there for you if this is really resonating with you.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: And in the show notes, you'll also find links to all of the studies that we referenced today.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that this episode has been helpful.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: I hope it has been illuminating for you, and I'm really inviting you to continue explore these themes as we move through Leo season.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And again, if you're here, I know that you're on this path, you're part of this web of connection here, and perhaps there is something in you that is being vided out of you.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: An idea, an offering, whatever it is.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that we all have something we're here to contribute, in whatever way, big or small that is for you.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I hope, my hope is that we aren't too afraid to let those ideas be shared because your ideas matter, your dreams matter, you matter, and you are a part of this human experience, and we really do a disservice to not only ourselves, but to those around us when we aren't allowing all that we bring to be seen and all of its beauty and its mess and its glory.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I will leave you with that today, and I look forward to connecting with you in the next episode.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: You can find everything you need in the show notes.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Bye for now.