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Dr Voddie Baucham - The Centrality of the Gospel in the Christian Life Q&A Session · Voddie Baucham Sermons

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, joining on the panel, I've asked a couple
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: of local church pastors to join us, to be here,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: to help with some of the questions. And I just
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: really admire these brothers, appreciate them.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Come on up, Doc. You're in the middle there. Got
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: your mic.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: And so I'm going to have Pastor Dane Tokushige and
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Pastor Ray Palampo come on up.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Give them a hand.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: And pastors, if you could just real briefly intro yourself,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about your church, and then
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: we'll get rolling here.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: Dane Tokushige, Victory IA, been around for about 11 years,
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: planted about 11 years ago.
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: Ray Palampo, Island Grace Church, 15 years, planted in Mililani.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Awesome. All right.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: We're just going to launch right into some of these questions,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: and just a brief explanation before we get going of
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: how we kind of thought through.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Thank you for your questions, really good ones.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: So as we kind of framed up which questions to
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: get at right away, we thought of centrality of the
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: gospel first. So if your question related more directly to
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: the topics that we spoke about, we try to Put
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: those up front. And then you also asked some questions
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: that seem to be kind of in the doc's wheelhouse.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: And so we tried to give those a little bit
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: of primacy too. And then finally, some broader questions that
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: if we have more time, we'll get to that, okay?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: This first question... Oh.
• 1:38
  Speaker 5: I can help.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: This first question... It's my favorite. And it's for you, Doc.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Can you please introduce your family?
• 1:57
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Please. We said please.
• 2:00
  Speaker 5: Okay. So we have my wife, Bridget. And we just
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: celebrated 35 years of marriage. And then... Um, we have
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  Speaker 5: next to her, Simeon, our youngest. Simeon's the baby of
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: the family. And then we have, uh, next to him, Safia.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Can you guys see them?
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Stand up. Thank you so much. We just want to
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: see you.
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: Um, and then we have Amos. Um, In the back row,
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  Speaker 5: we have Judah. And then Elijah. And then Micah. And
• 3:00
  Speaker 5: then rounding it off, back up to the front, Asher.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming, family. We love you guys.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: And there's more fam, too, right?
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  Speaker 5: Yes, yes. We have two older children who are back
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: on the main line, and then three grandchildren. So far. So,
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: going to 50. Let's go. 50 grandkids.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Let's go.
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  Speaker 5: No pressure. No pressure.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Praise the Lord. All right.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you again, family. It's so good to have you.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Let's dive in here. This first question is very contextual
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: to Hawaii.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: I don't understand.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: It's okay. I didn't ask the question yet.
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: It's already answering for you.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Someone brought up this idea of the aloha spirit.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: And we don't have time to get into all of it,
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  Speaker 1: but at the pop level, it's more like this attitude
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  Speaker 1: of acceptance, of empathy. I think at its best, it's
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  Speaker 1: a really good part of our culture. The intent is
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  Speaker 1: to be respectful. At least that's my take on it.
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  Speaker 1: But we seem to be getting into trouble when it
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  Speaker 1: leads us to not offend at all costs, to accept
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  Speaker 1: at all costs. How might the centrality of the gospel,
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  Speaker 1: the restored centrality of the gospel answer that was the
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: question that was asked?
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  Speaker 5: I think the way it answers that is by putting
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  Speaker 5: parameters around it. Acceptance is one of those ideas that
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  Speaker 5: is a great idea in its place. But just like anything,
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  Speaker 5: if it doesn't have boundaries, if it doesn't have parameters,
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  Speaker 5: then it ends up being a self-destructive idea and eventually
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  Speaker 5: being an internally inconsistent idea. So that would be akin
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  Speaker 5: to tolerance, right? The idea of tolerance. And what has
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  Speaker 5: tolerance sort of morphed into? Tolerance has morphed into intolerance, right?
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  Speaker 5: Intolerance against anyone who has firm beliefs, right? And so
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  Speaker 5: I think it's kind of the same thing. It has
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  Speaker 5: to have parameters. It has to have limits. And the gospel,
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  Speaker 5: biblical truth, biblical reality serves as that all-encompassing, totalizing, and
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  Speaker 5: then limiting truth that helps us to put something like
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  Speaker 5: the aloha spirit in its proper place.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: That was excellent i wanted to write this stuff down
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  Speaker 1: someone write down for me um i brought up these
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: other pastors because this is aloha spirit and all this
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  Speaker 1: is where where we live and um man do you
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  Speaker 1: have any other kind of push into that and or
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  Speaker 1: if you want to ask doc for a little bit
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  Speaker 1: more help with that for us as we we minister
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  Speaker 1: in our context yeah.
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  Speaker 4: I think we Need to be careful not to totally
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  Speaker 4: crush something that's been here for a long time. People embrace.
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  Speaker 4: It's how they've been raised.
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  Speaker 5: And it's good.
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  Speaker 4: The intention is good to love, respect, to show preference
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  Speaker 4: to another. A lot of biblical principles in there being
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  Speaker 4: manifest in the Aloha spirit. But I totally agree that
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  Speaker 4: it can be, it can skew off the rails when
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  Speaker 4: there are not, you know, when it doesn't stay on
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  Speaker 4: the rails, the boundaries are And I think, you know,
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  Speaker 4: just as preachers, we need to preach it. We need
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  Speaker 4: to preach where it's right on and where it's biblical
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  Speaker 4: and where it's not. And I think there's a way to,
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  Speaker 4: in all cultures, wherever you are regionally, there are going
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: to be that type of thing. There's southern hospitality. There's,
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  Speaker 4: you know, different ways to think through loving your neighbor.
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  Speaker 4: But we need to put biblical principles to it so
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  Speaker 4: it's not some.
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  Speaker 4: Vaporous, shapeless principle we all accept blindly.
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  Speaker 5: All right, cool. Thanks.
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  Speaker 2: Moving to another question here.
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  Speaker 1: Doc, you mentioned in your talks this morning the 1689
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  Speaker 1: Second London Confession.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you.
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  Speaker 1: The Augsburg, the Belgic Confession. The question was, what role
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  Speaker 1: do creeds and confessions and catechisms have on the local church,
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  Speaker 1: and help us to think about that a little bit.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah. So if you think about it, start with creeds. Creeds,
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  Speaker 5: very early on, succinct statements, summaries, if you will, of
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  Speaker 5: the gospel, summarizing that pattern of sound words that we
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  Speaker 5: have in the New Testament. And so we have things
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  Speaker 5: like the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed and the
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  Speaker 5: Athanasian Creed. These serve not only as summaries, but as
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  Speaker 5: defenses of the gospel. And so, for example, when you
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  Speaker 5: have the Apostles' Creed, later on you have the Nicene Creed,
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  Speaker 5: which builds on the Apostles' Creed, not because the Apostles'
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  Speaker 5: Creed was deficient, but because there was a new heresy
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  Speaker 5: that needed to be addressed. And so the Nicene Creed
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  Speaker 5: then comes and addresses that particular heresy. The Athanasian Creed, again,
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  Speaker 5: a new heresy, another heresy that needs to be addressed.
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  Speaker 5: And so it's just further clarification, if you will, on
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: those creedal statements. Confessions are broader than that. the confessions,
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  Speaker 5: especially coming out of the Protestant Reformation, are these broader
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  Speaker 5: statements that identify the essentials of Protestant doctrine, the distinctions
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  Speaker 5: that Protestant doctrine has in terms of differentiating itself from
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  Speaker 5: Roman Catholicism, also the distinctions between various Protestant groups were necessary.
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  Speaker 5: So those are the confessions. They're broader, right? Creeds, succinct statements.
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  Speaker 5: Some of you may have grown up in churches where
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  Speaker 5: you recited the Apostles' Creed every week or recited the
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  Speaker 5: Nicene Creed. every week or whatever. Confessions, they're much bigger
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  Speaker 5: than that. Think about a pamphlet size. Catechisms are a
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  Speaker 5: teaching tool. They're a pedagogical tool. Catechisms are a series
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  Speaker 5: of questions and answers meant to teach the doctrines of
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  Speaker 5: the confessions to children and new converts. So the most
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  Speaker 5: popular catechism is the Westminster Shorter Catechism, right? So what
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  Speaker 5: is the chief end of man? The chief end of
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  Speaker 5: man is glorify God and enjoy him forever, right? We
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  Speaker 5: know that, right? So there's a series of questions and answers, again,
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  Speaker 5: for children and new converts And you put those questions
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  Speaker 5: and answers together, 100, 120, 150, depending on the catechism,
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  Speaker 5: and what they do is they lead you toward a
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  Speaker 5: rudimentary understanding of the doctrines in the confession. So creeds, confessions, catechisms,
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  Speaker 5: that's how they work together.
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  Speaker 2: That's really helpful.
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  Speaker 5: Dean?
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  Speaker 3: Working in Zambia, did you have to contextualize in any
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  Speaker 3: way in... in the use of creeds, confessions, catechisms?
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  Speaker 5: So we went there to help start a university. And
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  Speaker 5: the group starting the university was the Reformed Baptist Churches
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  Speaker 5: of Zambia, REBCAS. And so they are a confessional 1689
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  Speaker 5: group that's been there for 35, 40 years. And so, no,
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  Speaker 5: it was very much already accepted and contextualized, if you will. So, no,
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  Speaker 5: there wasn't really a need for doing that. But there's
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  Speaker 5: always a need. for addressing, just like we talked about earlier,
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  Speaker 5: the idea of, you know, you got the aloha spirit
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  Speaker 5: or whatever. There was always a need to just sort
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  Speaker 5: of remind people and reiterate the fact that our biblical
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  Speaker 5: and confessional understandings took precedent over cultural norms, you know.
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  Speaker 5: And I mean that, you know, wherever we are, we're
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  Speaker 5: always doing that, you know. That's good.
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  Speaker 2: That's helpful.
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  Speaker 1: Let's move to another question here. How do we navigate
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  Speaker 1: political differences with family and the church? How do we
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  Speaker 1: navigate political differences with family and the church? I think
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  Speaker 1: this question comes from, you know, living in this world
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  Speaker 1: with very pluralistic, right? How do we navigate that with
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  Speaker 1: Humility and yet standing for the gospel. Confidence and taking
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  Speaker 1: the initiative at the same time with that heart of
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  Speaker 1: love and humility and mercy. Do you speak to any
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  Speaker 1: of those differences, especially political and family and church? Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: You just got to go slow. Like a woodpecker with
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  Speaker 5: a headache.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: But at the end of the day, what we have
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  Speaker 5: to do is We have to help one another think
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  Speaker 5: biblically about politics. And that's what we haven't done, right?
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  Speaker 5: For the most part, you know, you said earlier, I'm
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  Speaker 5: a founding faculty member of the Institute of Public Theology
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  Speaker 5: there in Florida. Started there in Cape Coral. Founders Ministries,
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  Speaker 5: Tom Askell, those guys. And the whole idea behind that
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  Speaker 5: was we were seeing, you know, from really came to
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  Speaker 5: a head in 2020, but even before that, the idea
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  Speaker 5: that there's political polarization, which is, you know, not necessarily
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  Speaker 5: a bad thing, but it is a bad thing when
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  Speaker 5: people are polarized politically and cannot define or defend their
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  Speaker 5: positions biblically and theologically. That was what was hugely problematic.
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  Speaker 5: And so what we wanted to do was help people,
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  Speaker 5: help ministers of the gospel develop a more robust and
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  Speaker 5: full-orbed political theology, understanding what the Bible says about the state,
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  Speaker 5: what the Bible says about sphere of sovereignty and things
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  Speaker 5: of this nature and what our duty and responsibility is
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  Speaker 5: to help not just our people but to help the
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  Speaker 5: culture at large think biblically about politics and so I
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  Speaker 5: think if we're going to do that we have to
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  Speaker 5: start with ourselves and if what I'm trying to do
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  Speaker 5: is parrot talking points from a political party, then I'm
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  Speaker 5: already on the wrong footing. Because what I have to
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  Speaker 5: be doing is somehow synthesizing and processing my biblical theological
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  Speaker 5: framework as it relates to the sphere of the state
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  Speaker 5: and what its duties, responsibilities, and limitations are. So I
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  Speaker 5: think that's the biggest challenge problem that we have, is
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  Speaker 5: that we're not operating from that broader framework. Thank you.
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  Speaker 2: That's helpful. And again, Center for Public Theology Institute?
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  Speaker 5: Institute of Public Theology.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Recommend checking that out, following up, and
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  Speaker 2: the help that they can give to us and our churches.
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  Speaker 5: Thanks, Doc.
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  Speaker 2: All right.
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  Speaker 1: As I mentioned, we have some questions that we take
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  Speaker 1: to be more you know, part of your wheelhouse here,
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  Speaker 1: and we really want to hear you on these. There
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: was a question on adoption, and I just want to
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: read it straight because the handwriting was very nice. And
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: the way that they asked it was very good as well.
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  Speaker 2: So here it is.
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  Speaker 1: And this is coming from someone here, and it's quite personal.
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  Speaker 1: My wife and I are thinking about adopting a child.
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  Speaker 1: What is the difference between looking to fill a void,
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  Speaker 1: or they put slash idolatry, versus a genuine desire to
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  Speaker 1: want to grow your family? Is there a difference? If
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  Speaker 1: wanting to grow our family is not a good reason
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  Speaker 1: for adoption, then what is? So, I think they're asking
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  Speaker 1: for help and thinking this through. Maybe they're struggling with
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: this idea of, well, am I just trying to fill
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: a void? Do I just want to grow my family?
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  Speaker 1: Is that necessarily bad if that's the main driver? I
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  Speaker 1: think they just want help with a good motivation, a
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  Speaker 1: godly motivation.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, wanting to grow our family is a good godly
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  Speaker 5: biblical desire. Don't ever apologize for having a good godly
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  Speaker 5: biblical desire. And if there's ever been one. That is one, right?
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  Speaker 5: The desire to grow our families, especially in this day
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  Speaker 5: and age when that's being stifled. This day and age
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  Speaker 5: where the opposite of that is the way that people
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  Speaker 5: have been conditioned to think. We've been conditioned to think
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  Speaker 5: that growing your family is a bad thing. We've been
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  Speaker 5: conditioned to think that growing your family is an affront, right?
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  Speaker 5: That it's a sin. There are people out there in
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: the world today who believe that that growing your family
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  Speaker 5: is a sinful thing to do. So now I hear
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  Speaker 5: somebody saying, you know, we want to grow our family. Amen, hallelujah,
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  Speaker 5: praise the Lord, grow your family. And then now we
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  Speaker 5: talk about the ways that we can grow our family.
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: And adoption, it's quite interesting. Adoption is... one of the
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  Speaker 5: things that early on set Christians apart, like early on
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: in the Roman Empire, it's one of the things that
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: set Christians apart. In the Roman Empire, where children were
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: being thrown away, where children were being disposed of, and
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  Speaker 5: Christians were known as people who would adopt those children,
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  Speaker 5: you know, adoption is part of the order salutis. The
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: order salutis or the order of salvation. We think often
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: about justification and sanctification and glorification, but there is a
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  Speaker 5: fourth step in the order salutis. It's actually justification, adoption, sanctification, glorification.
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  Speaker 5: The beautiful thing about adoption is it's the only thing
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  Speaker 5: that we can do. I can't justify anybody. I can't
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  Speaker 5: sanctify anybody. And I can't glorify anybody. But I can adopt.
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  Speaker 5: And it is a beautiful picture and an amazing testimony. Again,
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  Speaker 5: especially in the day and age in which we live. So,
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  Speaker 5: I think about, you know, from a personal family standpoint,
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  Speaker 5: we want to grow our family. I think about from
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: a testimony and witness of our Christian faith standpoint. And
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: then I also think about the urgency of our day,
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: the urgency of our time. You think about the Dobbs
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: decision and overturning Roe v. Wade. And I've been involved
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: in the pro-life movement for decades. And when that happened,
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: I remember being shocked because so many people, I mean,
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: you've been involved at all in the pro-life movement. In
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: the back of our minds, there's always this idea, someday,
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: maybe not in my lifetime, but someday. And then it happened.
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  Speaker 5: And it was glorious that that happened. But there have
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: been more abortions per year since Dobbs than before. Let
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: me say that again. There's more abortions per year after
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: Roe v. Wade than there were during Roe v. Wade.
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  Speaker 5: So we are still living in the midst of a
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: culture of death. We just had a political campaign where
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: one of the candidates took the party of life and
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: moved them toward the party of death with all these
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: exceptions and everything else, and another one doubled down and gleefully,
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: gleefully made her campaign about celebrating the annihilation of the
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: unborn in the womb. Like, that's where we live right now.
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: And so when you start talking about adoption, You're talking
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: about spiritual warfare in the midst of a culture that
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: has become an unapologetic, bloodthirsty culture of death. So don't
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: you dare apologize for that.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Amen. Thanks, Doc. Yeah. Praise God.
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Let's keep going here.
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: Let me just say this, too. Because in the midst
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: of that, not only do we have abortion skyrocketing since Dobbs,
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: mainly because of chemical abortions, right? And young women dying
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: because of the complications of these chemical abortions. But then
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: you also have what we addressed earlier. Think about this.
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: We're killing more babies than we ever killed before Now
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  Speaker 5: we're taking children and we're putting them on puberty blockers,
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: then cross-sex hormones, so we're sterilizing them chemically, and then
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: we're mutilating their bodies. So, again, slaughtering babies in the
• 23:17
  Speaker 5: womb and then sterilizing a generation simultaneously. This is, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, madness,
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: that's the only word, you know. So, yeah, go have
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: babies and go adopt babies. Awesome.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Kind of riding on, following up on that question, I guess.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Someone asked for some advice. You know, as the attitude
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: of our culture has changed toward children, how should young
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: couples think about, you know, when to have children?
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: That was the question. I just want to put that
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: out there.
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: Early and often. Yeah.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Early often. That's clear.
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: I just want to add one thing to the other
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: question about thinking through idolatry of your children and all that.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, that shouldn't scare you from having kids every,
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: whether you have, or adopting kids, whether you have kids
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: through adoption or natural way, you're going to struggle with
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: idolizing your children. And that's just something you and the
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: Lord have to to, uh, you know, you have to,
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: you have to think through and pray through what is
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: really good and what is best. And that's the constant
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: struggle of the parent because you love your children so much. Uh,
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: and so that shouldn't scare you away from adopting.
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: Good. Very good. Right on. Right on.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Awesome. All right.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Uh, Pastor Bodie, we've been just so blessed, uh, by
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: your ministry. Um, what you've shared with us here, the
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: books that you've written. Okay, I'm just going to say it.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: He's a celebrity pastor, celebrity Christian, you know. There's all that.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: The question here was, like, how do we or how
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: should we think about celebrity pastors? And then on the
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: flip side, we were thinking, how do you navigate that,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: you know, not by your own press kind of stuff?
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Anything you can help us with in thinking about the
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: celebrity pastor.
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: And That is so funny to me. And anybody who
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: knows me would know why that's so funny to me.
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: I don't think about myself in that way at all.
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: And quite honestly, I just don't get it. I continue
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: to be surprised when people know who I am in
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: different places or whatever. And the irony is that It's
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: because of this sort of proliferation of sort of online
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: presence and everything. And something that a lot of people
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: don't know is in our church in Houston, again, we
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: left there a decade ago going to Zambia, which is
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: not a very celebrity pastor thing to do. But even
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: at our church in Houston, My fellow, we had our
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: sermons available in certain places online because I was outvoted
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: by my fellow elders because I didn't want us to
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: publicize our sermons. If people wanted to hear our sermons,
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: I felt like they should come to our church. You're
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: not at our church, you don't get to hear our sermons, right?
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: And so I was outvoted by them and so their
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: sermons were in different places. I don't have a YouTube channel.
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: I've never put a sermon on YouTube. I don't have
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: a podcast. Which is funny, because people come up to
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: me all the time, and they're like, I love your podcast.
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: And I'm like, yeah, it's great. It's great. Don't send
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: them any money. Because I'm not getting that. So I
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: say all that to say, I don't... I just... I
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: don't think of it in that way. But at the
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: same time, I have to recognize the fact that by
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: God's grace, a lot of people know who I am
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: and a lot of people have access to and are
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: blessed by the things that I've done. And I'm grateful
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: for that. But I try not to live in that
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: world like at all. Yeah, so. Because it is. It's,
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: I don't know, it's a very difficult thing. I'm an introvert.
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: I really am. I'm an introvert. And I would spend
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: all my time, you know, locked up with these guys.
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: And that is also, that's my foundation right over there, right?
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: That's the only place that I want to be a
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: celebrity is over there. Those are the only guys whose
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: approval I crave. You know, those guys over there. Thanks, Doug.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: That's really helpful.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Maybe you could help us local non-celebrity pastors out a
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: little bit.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: You know, we have.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I know you're not saying that, but... You get the
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: categories I'm operating in here. You know, you come to
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: a conference like this, and some of my church members
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: are here, my fellow church members are here, and they're
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: going to come here tomorrow morning and hear Pastor David
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: and not Pastor Bodie. And I just imagine them being like, man,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: the conference was so good, and this is, ah. Give
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: us some help, man, and just tell them how they
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: should be thinking about this.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: But in all honesty, just to be– this is why–
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: this is one of the reasons I didn't want our
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: things publicized. I have been worried for a long time
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: about this tendency toward– toward the public as opposed to
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: the local. I've been worried for a long time about
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: this tendency for people to see pastors who are not
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: their pastors as their pastors. My heart breaks because of
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: some of the emails that I get. And people will
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: start with, I listen to you all the time. I'm
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: so benefited from your ministry. And then they proceed to
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: write something to me that should only be written to
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: their local pastor. Asking me for counsel because they listen
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: to me online. Which to me is an immediate indication
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: of an unhealthy local church relationship. And I would just
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: caution you against that. I would caution you against anything
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: that would lead you to believe that somebody other than
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: your local pastor is your local pastor. I would caution
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: you against having a spiritual life that is driven primarily
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: by your relationship with people who don't know you. and
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: don't love you and can't know you and can't love you, right?
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: You know, Hebrews 13, 17, we're to submit to those
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: who have been given charge over our souls. Do that.
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: And I think we're moving further and further away from that.
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: And the local church is losing more and more influence
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: and importance in people's lives because of it. And I
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: just want to caution you against it. Again, I recognize
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: the tension here. I am grateful for what the Lord
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: has done and all of that. I'm not a Luddite.
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: I'm sitting up here with my iPad. You know, I'm
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: not against technology. I'm not. But I'm really worried about
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: where things have gone. And then in a post-COVID world,
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: I'm even more worried because now, You know, even people
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: who used to argue against multi-site and against, you know,
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: all these guys who have, you know, a church where
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: they beam themselves in here and that and the other. Well,
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: COVID came and then everybody started streaming all their services.
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: So even people who used to be against that have
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: now succumbed to it. And we basically said without saying,
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: you don't have to go to church. It's not important.
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: Your whole spiritual life can be virtual. And don't buy that.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Thanks. That's helpful and very true. All right. Let's keep
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: going here.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: We had a question about a Christian who has some
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: family that attends a Unitarian Universalist church, or something like that.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: And I guess they've been bugged by this family to
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: come and visit with them. And I'm assuming this person's
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: question comes from wanting to be charitable towards the family.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: But should I visit with my family that attends this
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: something like a Unitarian or Universalist church?
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: That was the question.
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: The answer to that is almost always going to be no.
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: And the only reason I say almost always is You know, there,
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: how do I put this? I have books in my
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: library that I wouldn't recommend to most Christians because it's
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: kind of what I do, right? And so I've got,
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: you know, books about this and religion and that religion
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: and books from, you know, this person and that person
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: and whatever because that's what I do, right? reading that
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: kind of stuff, researching that kind of stuff. Um, I, I,
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: I don't recommend it for people who don't have, um,
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: that calling, that interest or that level of discernment. Does
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: that make sense? Um, and so for most Christians, I'm
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: going to say, don't do that. Don't go there. Um,
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: but there, there may be some who have a level
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: of discernment, um, to where that would allow them to
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: be able to give a more poignant critique. So if
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: you're just going as an observer, don't go. Don't do that.
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: If you're going as a researcher who's going to give
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: a poignant critique and you're at that place where you
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: can do that, then maybe you could. And I hope
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: that doesn't sound like a dodge. I hope you get
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: where I'm coming from. right, on that. But for the
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: most part, the answer is, like, stay away from there.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you. That was really helpful in anything.
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: No?
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Cool.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's, well, kind of a similar, perhaps, or related question.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: This one has to do with a church that is
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: not down there with a Unitarian Universalist, but you mentioned
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: something in one of your messages about a church that
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: believes the gospel, right? on paper, but doesn't preach it,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: or when they do, it's rare, or when they do,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: it's very obscure. What should I do if I attend
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: a church like that, was the question. And then I thought,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: even for pastors, we talked to some people who are
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: thinking about going there, or they've been a part of
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: those churches.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: How do you advise we.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Speak to people in those kinds of churches or in
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: that situation.
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: Does that make sense? Yeah. I would say to people,
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: if you have another alternative, if you're in a situation
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: like that and you have another alternative, then take advantage
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: of that other alternative. Your soul needs the gospel. And so,
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: you know, don't take that lightly. As far as ministering
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: to people and talking to people and helping people, I
• 36:16
  Speaker 5: think one of the things that we have to do
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: is we have to be really purposeful and intentional about
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: being gospel-centered. We have to be, don't just assume, right?
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: We can't just assume. We have to be pointed. We
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: have to say, here's what the gospel is. Here's what
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: the gospel does. here's why you so desperately need this gospel.
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: And that needs to be our full-time preoccupation, you know,
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: so that people can see and understand the distinction so
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: that they're not just trying to figure out, like, you know,
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: what the difference is. It needs to just be so
• 37:07
  Speaker 5: clear from everything that we do and that we say
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: and from the way that we do it and the
• 37:14
  Speaker 5: way that we say it and from how intentional we
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: are that there's a clear distinction here.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: That's great. That's your chance. Okay.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Doc, I really appreciated how from any text
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: that you pointed us to, you showed how it truly
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: is centered on the gospel of Christ's.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: And in such a natural way, I mean, it's in
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: the text.
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: It's there.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: All roads lead there.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: And so that was really something that I took away
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: from your preaching is it's not a gospel springboard.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about this.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Now I'm going to talk about the gospel, but you
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: just really unfolded from the text how Christ and the
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: gospel truly is central.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: And you can do that in all the Bible because
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: that's the way the Bible is.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, David, I think that That's how you discern whether
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: your church is clearly demarking the gospel and explaining the
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: elements of the gospel is that they're hearing it from
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: the pulpit, that it's not just something they hear on
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: a Bible study or on the side or to kind
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: of defend, yeah, our church is evangelical or whatever. They
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: hear it from the pulpit. That's where the authority is
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: coming down from. That's where the instructions and shepherding is
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: coming down from And so you may go to a
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: church that looks great online, the doctrines that we believe,
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: doctrines we teach. It's all there, checks off all the boxes,
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: but then you never hear it from the pulpit.
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: And I think Dr.
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: Vody clearly made it, you know, just absolutely clear that
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: that is the beginning of the end of denying the gospel.
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: And it's just so subtle because these are Christian churches
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: on the island. They're Christian churches and they're doing good things.
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: but they're not shepherding from the pulpit the gospel. And
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: so they're losing the nuances of the differences between justifications, sanctification, adoption.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: It's all blurred together as the gospel. And they don't
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: know how to explain it, but.
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: There it is. Yeah, and it always leads down dark roads,
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: you know, it always leads down dark roads.
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: Speaking of which, can I interject something right there? So
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: I got a pastor friend on the island. We've had
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: a couple hours discussion on this, and I feel like
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: the church is that kind that I just discussed. They've
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: looked at this latest election. And we've had a couple
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: hours talk about, so what does this election then mean
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: for the church? Why did it go this way? You know,
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: what does it mean for the church? And just really
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: pressing that question. How would you address this brother pastor
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: when they're seeing something bigger, something meaningful in this latest election?
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: I don't know. I think part of the problem that
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: we're having generally when it comes to our politics is
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: that we've forgotten that all politics is local. And one
• 40:44
  Speaker 5: of the things that I really appreciated coming out of
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: COVID It's something that I've been saying for decades. I've
• 40:51
  Speaker 5: been saying for decades to people, who your sheriff is
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: is much more important than who the president is. And
• 40:58
  Speaker 5: in COVID, we saw that. Because there were sheriffs, local sheriffs,
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: who said, nah, not going to do that. Right? Even
• 41:08
  Speaker 5: in states where they were doing crazy stuff, there were
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: local sheriffs who said, I'm not going to do that.
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: I'm not going to go rounding people up because they
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: don't have a mask on. I'm not going to do that.
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: I think one of the problems is we look at
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: something like this election and all we think about is
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: that whole top of the ticket, who's going to be
• 41:39
  Speaker 5: the president? And we don't think about all of the
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: rest of that. and all the rest of the people
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: who affect us more directly and more locally. And it
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: does give us that sort of catastrophic view of what's
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: going to happen if this person gets in there or
• 42:03
  Speaker 5: that person gets in there or whatever, which, I mean,
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: we just shouldn't have. But also, I think a lot
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: of people don't realize that that with an election like this,
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: just think about from the standpoint of the president, like
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: whoever wins the election gets to a point about 5,000
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: people to critical offices. About 5,000 people, right? So you
• 42:37
  Speaker 5: just got to ask yourself in situations like this, what
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: would this person's 5,000 people and critical positions in the
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: federal government look like versus with that person's 5,000 people
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: and critical positions in the federal government look like. I
• 42:54
  Speaker 5: think a lot of people weren't doing that and, you know,
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: should have. That's good.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: That's very helpful. Thank you so much.
• 43:05
  Speaker 5: I'm glad, though, that we got these 5,000 people getting
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: ready to come as opposed to the 5,000 that could
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: have been coming. Me too.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Me too.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: Amen.
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: Amen, somebody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Doc, thank you so much. Again, we really appreciate you
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: and your family coming out, being troopers. This was the
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: first stop from Africa, people. And, you know, you could
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: see it. It was a labor of love in many ways.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: But you did mention that you folks are all but
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: settled now. on a certain church home base, um, that
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: you guys are going to land on. You didn't tell
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: us what it was, but you, you kind of hinted
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: that you knew where it was. Is it Hawaii?
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Is the last question? Oh, wait, no, let's put it.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Can it be Hawaii? Oh, wait, better yet. What could
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: we do to make it? Three questions go.
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I don't know.
• 44:09
  Speaker 5: We've got a couple of stops. We're going to stop
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: in Kauai and we're going to stop in the Big
• 44:13
  Speaker 5: Island and, you know, you know, yeah. Just wink.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Just wink at me.
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: We'll see. We'll see.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: Well, awesome. Praise God.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: Lastly, we're going to do, Pastor Dane, would you just
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: lead this crew here, family of God, could we just
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: pray for the doc and for the family and family
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: of God, if you could just join as, I didn't
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: tell you you were going to do this, but Yeah,
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: I can do this. Brother, can you please just pray
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: for Doc and for our family here? And then we'll
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: close up as we sing together and send you all out.
• 44:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: All right, Lord. We thank you for the opportunity to gather.
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: We thank you for the Balkans ministry over the course
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: of time, whether it be in their family or in
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: Zambia or in the United States. And we pray that
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: as they make this transition from a foreign country back
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: to the United States, that you give them grace, that
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: you give them patience in dealing with people who may
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: be a little bit different than what they're used to.
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: Pray that they would find good relationships, all of them,
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: whether it be in ministry or for the kids or
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: whatever step there are in life. We pray that you'd
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: give them relationships, that they would be able to make
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: friends well, um, I pray that they would not be
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: so tired with all the travel and all the speaking.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: And Lord, we pray that you would refresh him. It's
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: not easy to preach once a week, let alone however
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: many times on that schedule there. But I pray that
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: you give him grace, that you give him a continued, new,
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: fresh revelation of you. And understanding of who you are
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: as he continues to preach the scriptures. And Lord, we
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: would ultimately pray that you would continue to allow them
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: to bear fruit. And while we joke a little bit
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: about the celebrity thing, we thank you for the platform.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: And pray that you would protect him. Protect his marriage.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: That you would keep him safe. That you would allow
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: him to continue to be a voice in a world
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: that is so often confused. that he would encourage pastors,
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: that he would encourage church members. And Lord, that we
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: might be able to be also a place in Hawaii
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: where the gospel goes out. So Lord, we pray for
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: fruit from this time together. We pray for our church
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: members to understand that they have a pastor that teaches
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: well or tries their best every week. And we pray, God,
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: that we would not look at all of the fanfare,
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  Speaker 3: but Lord, that we would be people who are committed
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  Speaker 3: to the gospel and And committed to seeing others know
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: the gospel. And so Lord, be with us as we
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: continue to work out our faith on a daily basis.
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  Speaker 3: Help us to be believers and Christians who take this
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: to heart. Who have honest and good hearts. Like in
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: the parable of the sower. And so Lord, be with us.
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  Speaker 3: We pray for Hawaii. Pray for churches to be planted.
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  Speaker 3: And for your name to be made famous. In the
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: name of Jesus, amen.
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  Speaker 2: One more time, everyone. Thank you, Dr.
• 47:41
  Speaker 5: Walker.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: Thank you, pastors Ray and Dane.