Latest / My Favorite Things / My Favorite Things Episode 6: Mario Fraioli

Transcript

My Favorite Things Episode 6: Mario Fraioli · My Favorite Things

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Mario Fraioli, thanks for being here.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited to have this conversation with you.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just start.
• 0:11
  Talk a little bit about your job and what you do and how you
• 0:15
  came into doing that.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I understand you're a bit of a runner, if I'm not mistaken.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: a little bit of a runner,
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: which is not my job,
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: but a lot of the things that I do are related in some way to running.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: So over...
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: The past,
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: really 18 years since I graduated college,
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: almost 19 years now,
• 0:36
  I have followed this just very meandering path to working for
• 0:43
  myself primarily as a
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: coach,
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: but also as a writer and podcast host.
• 0:48
  And I would say from a working standpoint,
• 0:51
  that's how I spend most of my time.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd say it's mostly skewed toward coaching.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have a number of one-on-one athletes that I work with.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Throughout the year,
• 0:59
  mostly virtually in a group here that I coach in the Bay Area
• 1:02
  where I live.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I also write a newsletter called The Morning Shakeout,
• 1:08
  which is about seven and a half years old at this point and
• 1:11
  host a podcast of the
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: same name.
• 1:14
  And how I got to this point,
• 1:16
  the short version of it anyway,
• 1:20
  there is no short version of it.
• 1:23
  But I worked in magazines and newspapers for many years prior
• 1:27
  to going out on my own.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was a senior editor at what was Competitor Magazine,
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: eventually became Podium Runners now,
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Outside Run,
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: which is just a digital only thing.
• 1:36
  thing but i was there from 2010 to 2016 before that i was a
• 1:40
  copy editor at a
• 1:42
  newspaper i wrote a running column for them so i've just been
• 1:45
  like you know in this
• 1:47
  space doing things around around coaching runners writing about
• 1:51
  running uh and
• 1:52
  talking about it in in various forms for quite a long time now
• 1:58
  and and where are
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: you based
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm based in the Bay Area,
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: north of San Francisco,
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: at the fringes of Marin County in a little town called Nevado.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: I guess we'll get into this, but where'd you grow up?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in central Massachusetts,
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Worcester specifically,
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: which is,
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: and I believe it's called the heart of the Commonwealth.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it really is like kind of center of the state.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: It is not as big of a city as Boston, but it's pretty big.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's halfway between Springfield and Boston,
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: which are kind of the two major cities that bookend the state.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I grew up right there, dead smack in the middle.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And when you started working at this,
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: when you started this writing thing,
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: you're writing a running column for a newspaper.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I imagine the ad that you applied for the position did not say,
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: we need a running columnist for our newspaper.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Was that something you just were like,
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: in addition to my copy editing duties,
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: I could also...
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: So interestingly,
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: how all that started,
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: back in 2004,
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: after I graduated from college,
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to try and make it as a professional runner,
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: in air quotes.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't good enough to sign a contract right out of school.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: I ran Division II.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was an All-American coach.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: and I felt like with a few more years of training,
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: I could get to,
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: to a higher level and maybe make some money doing it through sponsorship,
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: race winnings,
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: that sort of thing.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I moved out to Eugene,
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oregon,
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: AKA track town USA,
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: a few months after graduation and,
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: didn't make it more than two months.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Couldn't find a job.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually cleaning apartments near the university.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was a, it was a,
• 3:50
  through a temp agency that I had found that job making whatever
• 3:53
  the minimum wage
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: was at the time and trying to run like 100 plus miles a week.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was as miserable as it sounds.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I went out there as a 22-year-old with like next to no money,
• 4:07
  blew through whatever money I had and made in a matter of a
• 4:10
  couple of months and
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: told my dad that I wanted to come home.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: He paid for my ticket to come home.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I needed to start paying my college loans back within a few months.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to find a job.
• 4:21
  So I went looking in the newspaper where I ended up working,
• 4:24
  the Worcester Telegram and Gazette.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was looking through the classified ads and they had an ad in there.
• 4:32
  for a call taker in the sports department at the Worcester
• 4:36
  Telegram and Gazette.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it was 16 hours a week, 5 to 9 p.m.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that sounds cool.
• 4:45
  And I reached out to the sports editor who was the contact on
• 4:49
  the classified ad.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: His name was Dave Greenslitt.
• 4:52
  And he remembered me because I grew up in the area and I ran in
• 4:56
  high school and
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: college and they'd written some stories about me and they knew who I was.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: So they brought me in for an interview.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, yeah, we'd love to give you the job.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: That was great.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I started working as a call taker.
• 5:08
  So the call taker in the sports department,
• 5:10
  you sit at a desk next to the telephone.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And from 5 to 9 p.m.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: every night,
• 5:14
  high school and college coaches would call you and give you the
• 5:19
  results of their
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: game.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you would take all the stats down.
• 5:22
  And you were the person who created the box score,
• 5:24
  which was on the agate page.
• 5:25
  So for basketball,
• 5:27
  I would do the box score,
• 5:28
  baseball,
• 5:28
  I mean,
• 5:29
  whatever sport.
• 5:30
  I would do the box score and then I got to write up like a two
• 5:35
  to three sentence
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: summary of the game that I did not attend with the information that the,
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: coach who was calling it in or equipment manager,
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: whoever,
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: whoever,
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: whoever had the job that day would,
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: would give me.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I loved it.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was, it was just the coolest job because, um,
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't go to these games,
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: but I would have to take whatever information that I was given and,
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: write something that was interesting enough for the paper the next day,
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: or at least that's how I viewed it.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how I got my start.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously 16 hours a week making,
• 6:11
  I think I made maybe nine bucks an hour doing that is not
• 6:15
  enough to pay back.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: college loans or live.
• 6:17
  Fortunately,
• 6:18
  I was living in my parents' basement at the time,
• 6:20
  so I didn't have rent.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I needed more income,
• 6:23
  and I also needed to get health insurance because I could no
• 6:27
  longer get that
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: anymore.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I had another job at the same newspaper that
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: was Monday through Friday from 9am to 2pm in telemarketing.
• 6:39
  And I would be the person calling folks to renew their
• 6:43
  subscription to the
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: newspaper or cold calling them to sign up for the newspaper.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I hated it.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I really did not like it at all.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: I am not good at selling.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: I am not good at just cold calling people.
• 6:58
  But I needed the income and I needed the benefits and I made
• 7:02
  that work for a little while.
• 7:05
  So at the Worcester Telegram Gazette,
• 7:07
  we had a running column every Sunday in the newspaper.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the guy who wrote it weekly was a freelancer and his –
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the guy who wrote it weekly was a freelancer.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: He was the unfortunately named Ron Woodcock.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he wrote this column every Sunday.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it was terrible.
• 7:33
  Like as someone who is interested in running and read the paper
• 7:37
  every day.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was awful.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was boring.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't enjoy it.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Ron went on vacation one week.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they needed someone to fill in and write the column for him.
• 7:48
  So Dave Nordman,
• 7:50
  who is the assistant sports editor,
• 7:52
  asked me if I'd be interested in doing it.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, yeah, 100%, absolutely.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I just went all in on it.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't even remember what I wrote about.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely have that clip saved somewhere.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: But apparently I did a really good job.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, this is way better than anything Ron's ever put out.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you're on staff here.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to write the running column?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I would love to write the running column.
• 8:14
  So I started writing the running column every week for the
• 8:17
  Worcester Telegram Gazette.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is like 2004.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:21
  eventually some things happened at the newspaper or a copy
• 8:24
  editing position opened
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: up.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: I applied for it.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up getting that job.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was, uh, not full time, but it was like 30 something hours a week.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: so it was enough to give me benefits and it,
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: it was like pretty much double the pay of what I was getting,
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: as a,
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: as a call taker,
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: I got to work in the newsroom.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that's really, you know, how I cut my teeth with, um,
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, editing specifically, but with some writing, too.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I had some prior experience like writing a little bit before that.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing all that formal or anything.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd always I'd always like writing.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I was just super happy at that point in my life,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: like 22,
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: 23 years old and,
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: working at a newspaper in sports,
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: which I loved and getting to,
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: just be around it all.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, those are a few great years that I had at the Telegram.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I loved working in the sports department.
• 9:14
  I mean,
• 9:15
  someday I would like to write a book just about my experiences
• 9:18
  working in a newsroom.
• 9:20
  I mean,
• 9:21
  just like crazy stories,
• 9:22
  which is a whole nother podcast,
• 9:24
  you know,
• 9:25
  unto itself.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, those were some like very formative years for me.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned a lot.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it was a...
• 9:33
  it was a big newspaper at the time i mean this is this is
• 9:36
  almost 20 years ago now
• 9:37
  right and newspapers now definitely aren't what they what they
• 9:41
  were then and that
• 9:42
  was like kind of right on the brink of when things were really
• 9:45
  starting to go you
• 9:46
  know digital but i mean you know we we had a pretty big
• 9:49
  operation i mean we served
• 9:50
  all of central massachusetts um you know we had different
• 9:53
  editions of of the paper
• 9:55
  i mean you know well into the the six six figures in terms of
• 9:59
  like subscribers you
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: know that it went out to every week i mean it was
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know, in a state with the Boston Globe and the Boston Herald.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like right there on all the newsstands with it.
• 10:08
  So,
• 10:08
  I mean,
• 10:09
  I just feel very fortunate that I had that,
• 10:11
  you know,
• 10:12
  had that opportunity.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And again,
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: like went in there with like the,
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: the idea that I would answer phones and,
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: write little roundups and put together the Agate page,
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: which was,
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: a ton of fun.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: It led somewhere that I could not have even envisioned.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: So.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you still have a job writing, which is pretty amazing.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm still, and I'm still writing.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, all these years later.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so I've gotten your newsletter for a long time.
• 10:40
  And I think the reason I wanted to have you on is because your
• 10:42
  newsletter is
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: primarily about running,
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: there's always,
• 10:46
  there's always a little bit of culture in there and often
• 10:49
  there's some sort of
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: musical thing.
• 10:51
  So you're not this one dimensional guy who's just like eating,
• 10:55
  sleeping,
• 10:55
  eating,
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: drinking running 24 hours a day.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: You're always like, oh, yeah.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then I found this great cover of this such and such song on YouTube.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought you might enjoy that, too.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you throw that in the newsletter.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a that's a fun thing.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I know you have those those things in your background.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Should we just get to your list and start?
• 11:15
  You know,
• 11:15
  we can talk about how when I was in second grade,
• 11:19
  I remember this very vividly.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and this is really what kickstarted the whole thing.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: We had a
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: We had a class project where we got to write and publish our own book.
• 11:33
  And that was just like the coolest thing to me when I was in
• 11:38
  second grade.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And what we did, in retrospect, it was super simple.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: At the time, I was like, this is amazing.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: But we took like eight and a half by 11 sheets of paper,
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: folded them in half so that we had a spine.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we could write whatever story or book that we wanted to.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then we took a piece of construction paper,
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: which was bigger than eight and a half by 11,
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: but provided this cover.
• 12:02
  and then put another eight and a half by 11 piece of white
• 12:05
  paper on that so that it
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: kind of had this natural sort of like border to it.
• 12:09
  So we got to design the cover and then the teacher laminated it
• 12:13
  and gave it this
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: like glossy sheen and then,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: stapled the spine together.
• 12:19
  So we had this book and then they went in the library for like
• 12:23
  a month,
• 12:23
  the school library.
• 12:24
  So they were like on the shelf and people could,
• 12:26
  um,
• 12:27
  take them out and,
• 12:28
  uh,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: it was just like one of the – like very vivid memories of it now,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: but it was like one of the coolest projects that I ever did.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I want to write books or I want to write.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the book I wrote, I remember it.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's still at my parents' house.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's called The Adventures of Batman.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I wrote it.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: I illustrated it.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I just like – I remember that project very, very –
• 12:54
  I think back to it a lot,
• 12:57
  but I'm like,
• 12:57
  that was really the spark for all of it.
• 13:01
  Fast forward to writing a blog in college when blogs were cool
• 13:07
  and there weren't a
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: lot of college kids doing blogs.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 13:10
  eventually that leading to the work I did at the newspaper and
• 13:14
  doing some freelance
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: stuff.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And now,
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 13:16
  the newsletter that I've been putting out every week for the
• 13:18
  last like seven and a
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: half years.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean,
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: that's,
• 13:22
  I don't think I can talk about like creativity and like
• 13:26
  inspirations and interests
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: and all that stuff without,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: without referencing that story.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I've never got to really tell it before,
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: but I feel like for this conversation,
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: it's pertinent.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 13:37
  not to mention all the movies that were spawned from that book
• 13:40
  with Christian Bale
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: and Heath Ledger.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Where are my royalties?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's great.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like creativity sometimes is a survival story,
• 13:54
  and it's the surviving of that kid who was making that book and
• 13:57
  is still psyched on
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: books,
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: and like...
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like not enough people know that you can just do that.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: You can just make that book nowadays.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's called a zine, right?
• 14:07
  Some of the most fun books I have on my shelves are zines that
• 14:10
  I picked up in
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: bookstores where I'm like,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: this is awesome.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I paid $4 for it.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it was literally construction paper.
• 14:19
  you know,
• 14:19
  printed,
• 14:20
  not like hand drawn,
• 14:21
  which I imagine yours was,
• 14:22
  I don't know.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, hand drawn, definitely not laminated.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we, we lose that.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, Oh no, I gotta, I gotta pay the bills or I gotta do this.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or that's not like,
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: like that's not legitimate or,
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: that's not a valid book.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now it is.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: You can just go.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, 100%.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was thinking about this before we got on to record this.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: all creativity really is to me,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: whether it's writing,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: whether it's music,
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: whether you're making a film,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: doodling in your notebook.
• 14:52
  I mean,
• 14:52
  I even think of what I do from the coaching side of things as
• 14:56
  creativity.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's really just actual creativity.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: it's really just the actualization of your curiosity.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like, I'm curious about this thing.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Let me explore it a little bit more and see, you know, see where it goes.
• 15:12
  I mean,
• 15:14
  you know,
• 15:14
  from a professional standpoint,
• 15:15
  that's been my whole career.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's really just been like actualizing my, you know, my curiosities.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And some of those have,
• 15:22
  have worked out to to be something and something that can help
• 15:26
  me pay my bills and
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: allow me to,
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: do other things.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And some of those things have just totally flopped,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: from,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: from like a professional standpoint,
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: but all of it,
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: that's really what it comes back to.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the actual actualization of, you know, my my curiosity.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:43
  Or quote unquote,
• 15:44
  having too much time on your hands and making something.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that too.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I couldn't, I could not agree more.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about the Beatles.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Number one on your list is the Beatles.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Here comes the sun,
• 15:57
  which I believe is probably one of the most played Beatles
• 16:00
  songs on like Spotify at
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: this point.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Has to be.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: What, uh,
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Can you kind of tell us,
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: like set the scene of if you remember when you first heard this song,
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: how old were you?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Where were you?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was very young.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't tell you exactly what age, but very early years.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it would be in the back of my mom's car.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: She'd be taking me somewhere.
• 16:25
  And whenever that song came on,
• 16:28
  she would sing it and she said that was my song.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I never...
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: I never got to ask her why it was my song.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: And sadly,
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: my mom passed away suddenly at the age of 50 from a brain aneurysm,
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: so I'll never get to ask her that.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: But she always used to say, like, this is your song.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever it would come on, she's like, this is your song.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: And she would always sing it.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And she always made a point of letting me know.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:57
  that's just like one of those early memories that's just
• 16:59
  ingrained in my head and
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: has stuck with me ever since.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: after she passed,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: a year after she passed,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: I got a tattoo on my leg as a tribute to her.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I have the...
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Celtic cross that's on her headstone tattooed to my leg.
• 17:19
  And then behind it,
• 17:21
  I have a son kind of popping up in the,
• 17:24
  you know,
• 17:24
  in the background.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just to kind of pay homage to her and to that song.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why it's it's personally like very meaningful to me.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And just, you know, over the years, more recently,
• 17:39
  as I've just as I've gotten older,
• 17:40
  you know,
• 17:42
  curiosity is just kind of like got the best of me.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like,
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: I,
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've dug into that song,
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: I've dug into the lyrics,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: pretty deeply.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just always wonder,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: what was it about that song that,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: my that that
• 18:02
  led my mom to say it was it was like my song um so i'll never
• 18:06
  know the answer to
• 18:06
  that question um and i think there's you know there's something
• 18:09
  sad but beautiful
• 18:10
  about that but i mean i i just like have kind of picked through
• 18:15
  the lyrics of of
• 18:16
  that song i mean more times and you know than i can count and
• 18:20
  it just always
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: reminds me of you know of of my mom and
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: I have such an appreciation for it.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: And as you said,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: beyond just my personal connection to it,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: it's probably the most like streamed Beatles song on Spotify.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:36
  I wonder if there's like a double meaning in the chorus for
• 18:38
  her,
• 18:39
  you know,
• 18:40
  like son and son.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: And she's, she's saying it's your son.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I've had that thought too.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, I'm my mom's first child.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she ended up having two sons, but I was the first one.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so, you know, I, I don't know, like I was, I was born in May.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, um,
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: So she,
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: she carried me,
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: mostly through the wintertime,
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: and there's a,
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: there's a line in there that's like long,
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: cold,
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: lonely winter.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you know, did she have a tough pregnancy?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, was it a lonely winter for her when she was carrying me?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, I don't know.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: and then I was,
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was born and fortunately healthy and,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: first,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: grandchild in the family,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: like all that kind of stuff.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a line about like smiles returning to the faces.
• 19:29
  So I don't know if like,
• 19:30
  you know,
• 19:30
  that kind of helped bring her out of the winter.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'll never know.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I like thinking about it.
• 19:35
  And it's,
• 19:36
  you know,
• 19:36
  it's,
• 19:37
  yeah,
• 19:38
  it's just a really beautiful and meaningful song to me.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's a sort of poetry and not knowing, you know.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:47
  there's like there's like that terry tempest williams book she
• 19:49
  wrote the whole
• 19:49
  thing about how her her mom gave her her journals before she
• 19:53
  died or after she died
• 19:54
  before she died and she opened them up and they were all blank
• 19:57
  they were just like
• 19:58
  notebooks you know she's like i want you to have my journals
• 20:00
  you know and she
• 20:01
  writes this whole whole book based on that and like why were
• 20:04
  they blank and uh
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: interesting i should know the name i've read it um but
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:10
  So there's a mystery to it for me,
• 20:12
  which I'm actually more grateful for than ever.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: if my mom were to pop up in front of me right now,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: that's probably the first question I ask her,
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: honestly,
• 20:24
  because I've just thought about it so much in the almost 15
• 20:28
  years that she's been
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: gone.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd like to know the answer to that.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: But
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: The reality is she's not here and I'll never know.
• 20:35
  And I do think there's just something beautiful about that
• 20:38
  because I think just as
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: humans,
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: we like certainty.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: We want to know things.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: We're uncomfortable when we don't or when things are hanging there.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And for me,
• 20:51
  that song's been in my life as long as I can remember and
• 20:53
  there's just going to be
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: elements of it that are forever hanging there.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I've really come to just appreciate and embrace that.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: My other question would be,
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: do you know if your brother had a song,
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: like if your mother bestowed a song on your brother too?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's a, you know, that's a good question.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, not that I can remember.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was a little older at that point and like I'm about five years,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: almost five years older than my brother.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my mom was like a baby factory for four years.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was like one after another.
• 21:25
  My brother's the youngest of four and he's like four and a half
• 21:30
  years old.
• 21:31
  younger than me he just turned 36 and I just turned 40 last
• 21:37
  year so I mean there's
• 21:38
  not a big gap but my point being like when he was that age one
• 21:43
  I was 4 or 5 so I
• 21:44
  probably just didn't really pay much attention to it and it
• 21:47
  wasn't me right I mean
• 21:48
  if she was giving him attention you know if anything I was
• 21:52
  probably like why is the
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: attention not on me you know type of thing so if she had a song for him I
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: definitely didn't
• 21:58
  recognize it or certainly appreciate it in the same way as I do
• 22:03
  with Here Comes the Sun.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: But my mom loved music.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my connection to music is definitely through my mom.
• 22:13
  And,
• 22:14
  you know,
• 22:14
  there was always something playing,
• 22:16
  whether it was in the house or in the car.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: she would always like what that's like if another song like she would,
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: she'd be like,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: this was my high school prom song or something.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember the specifics of it,
• 22:30
  but she would always like she would always have a connection to
• 22:33
  the music that she
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: was listening to.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that definitely is trickled down to to me.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's trickled down to my other siblings quite as much.
• 22:41
  huh oh that's interesting like yeah yeah yeah i think about
• 22:46
  like yeah it'd be cool
• 22:47
  if i knew how to play an instrument so i could teach my teach
• 22:51
  my kid out of you
• 22:52
  know the value of that but i like right also just being just a
• 22:56
  huge fan of music
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: and having it on all the time and
• 23:00
  exposing them to all the different kinds of music there are
• 23:03
  that we have that we're
• 23:04
  that are just beautiful in their own way is such a that's such
• 23:07
  a gift too because
• 23:08
  that was my dad the same same way as your mom you know my mom
• 23:11
  could play the piano
• 23:12
  but she would drive she would do like hour and a half long
• 23:16
  commutes to work in
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: silence i thought it was the most
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: psychotic thing ever.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: You got like, you got a body in the trunk.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do we not know things about you?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's so crazy that you don't listen to music when you drive.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: So number two here is Hunter S. Thompson's letter to Hume Logan.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Can you,
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I just read this just for,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: just to get ready for the podcast,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: but I'd be curious to hear
• 23:48
  Well,
• 23:48
  could you explain what it is and when you found it and what it
• 23:52
  meant to you at that time?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:54
  So Hunter S.
• 23:56
  Thompson,
• 23:57
  the great writer,
• 24:01
  wrote,
• 24:02
  I mean,
• 24:02
  you know,
• 24:03
  Fear and Loathing.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just look him up.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just go to Google.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's been gone for a while now.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: But, I mean, just one of the...
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think just like most influential writers of his generation for sure.
• 24:20
  I actually used to read like toward the end of his life,
• 24:23
  he had a column for ESPN.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: ESPN, yep.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it was called like Hey Rube, I think.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I would read that religiously.
• 24:33
  But he wrote about sports and politics and just current
• 24:36
  affairs,
• 24:37
  all that kind of stuff.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I went down...
• 24:43
  numerous Hunter S.
• 24:44
  Thompson rabbit holes in my like,
• 24:46
  in my early to mid 20s.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: and,
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: and I,
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: I remember,
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: I still have it somewhere,
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: like I have this book of letters that,
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: that he wrote to various people,
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: in his life,
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: this is in like,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: the 50s,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: when he was in his 20s,
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: 60s,
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: 70s,
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: well before,
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: the internet,
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: you could fire off an email someone,
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: he would,
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: he
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: just write these incredible letters to people in his life,
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes as publishers,
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: other writers,
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: family,
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: friends.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're kind of all over the place.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I first came across this letter that we're referencing.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's from 1958.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it was to...
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: His friend,
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: a guy named Hume Logan,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think Hunter was like 22 at the time,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: and I'd have to look at a timeline.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what he had published at that time,
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: but his friend Hume had written him for life advice.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And he wrote him this just incredible letter where he kind of like,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: led off by saying like,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: asking advice is a very dangerous thing to do.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: I respect you for asking me, but I don't really know what to tell you.
• 26:12
  And what I really appreciate about the letter is you could tell
• 26:16
  as he was writing it.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've always felt writing is a form of thinking,
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: but you could tell he was thinking through,
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: what am I going to tell this guy?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean,
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: it's beautifully written,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: but it's definitely like a stream of consciousness type of thing.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the advice isn't like so specific to Hume like,
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: all right,
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know you – these are your interests.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is the career path that you're on.
• 26:41
  I think you should do X,
• 26:43
  Y,
• 26:44
  and Z.
• 26:45
  It was just much more – kind of much more general advice.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of went off, I think, like on a little bit of a tangent.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's just some some lines in there that are amazing.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's ones like the the answer.
• 26:59
  And in a sense,
• 27:00
  the tragedy of life is that we seek to understand the goal and
• 27:03
  not the man.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: So he talks about like,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: goal setting and why he just you know why he doesn't like that.
• 27:09
  He's like,
• 27:10
  you know,
• 27:10
  we shouldn't be striving for goals to be striving to be
• 27:12
  ourselves and to.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And to live a way of life.
• 27:17
  And I just remember that letter in particular just being like,
• 27:21
  holy shit,
• 27:22
  this is incredible.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I needed to – I mean I was in my mid-20s at the time.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: I need to read this.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it just had that –
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Very,
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: early impact on me as I read it,
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: in this collection of letters that Hunter S.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thompson had.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know who published that.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: It might have been, like, you know, post-hominously or whatever.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember reading that and then...
• 27:51
  I just,
• 27:51
  like,
• 27:52
  filed it away,
• 27:53
  kind of in the back of my brain,
• 27:54
  even though I had the book.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: But the book wasn't something that I would, like, re-reference.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, years later, it popped back up online on this book.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: newsletter,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: website newsletter blog that I was subscribed to called Farnham Street,
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: which has a lot of like just,
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: life,
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: kind of life advice.
• 28:17
  They try to distill,
• 28:18
  you know,
• 28:21
  this just wisdom basically into,
• 28:25
  you know,
• 28:26
  into blog posts.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: But they shared that letter in its entirety.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's still online.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: You could, you know, you can definitely read it.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: And like three years ago,
• 28:35
  I just started rereading it on New Year's Day every year just
• 28:39
  as a reminder of
• 28:45
  during this time of goal setting that the goals aren't really
• 28:48
  what's important.
• 28:49
  It's really living life in a way that sets you up to achieve
• 28:55
  the things that you
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: want to do,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: but it's more about the process than it is about the
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the the destination.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And there's just a lot of other I mean,
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: every time I read it,
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of pull I pull something new out of it.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me,
• 29:09
  that's the sign of a great piece of writing is something that
• 29:14
  you can revisit.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And every time you do, you find.
• 29:18
  you know,
• 29:18
  you,
• 29:18
  you have like your,
• 29:20
  your greatest hits in there and what you go to it for.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: so I go to it for all the things that I just described,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: but every time I read it I find something new that I can,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: that I can think about or,
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: figure out or make a connection to my own life and,
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: how it's,
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: how it's personally impactful to,
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: to me.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's, that's kind of how I found it.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: And, and,
• 29:45
  You know how it just continues to have a place and a presence
• 29:49
  in my life today.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 29:51
  that book of letters must have come out in like 1999 because I
• 29:54
  had it and I
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: remember I had it in hardcover.
• 29:56
  And I don't know if it was in like the foreword of the book or
• 30:00
  somebody else
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: mentioned it somewhere,
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: but it was like they pointed out like what.
• 30:05
  how confident he was in his writing that he saved a carbon copy
• 30:09
  of every single
• 30:11
  letter he probably ever wrote and how he probably considered
• 30:14
  them to be as much of
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: his art as his books and his articles and stuff like that.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like,
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: because it's not like you could just be like,
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: he's going to die someday.
• 30:23
  Let's download his Gmail and dig through it and see if there's
• 30:26
  anything good in there.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: He had a file where it was like,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: here's all the copies of the correspondence I've had over the years.
• 30:33
  um we so you find it in your mid-20s are you do you think you
• 30:38
  were a little bit
• 30:39
  like searching or lost in a way and that's why it hit you so
• 30:42
  hard or what what do
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: you what do you remember about it
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly that.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 30:49
  I was just I was just lost trying to figure out what it is that
• 30:53
  I wanted to do with
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: my life.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was still pursuing running,
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: but I had had some hiccups,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: injuries and things of the sort.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it was obvious to me,
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: certainly by my mid 20s,
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't going to be making a career as a professional runner.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had been
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: working at the newspaper.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: I had some other odd jobs.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I did know at that point that I wanted to run.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: I loved running, even though I wasn't going to be a professional athlete.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was a huge part of my life, continues to be.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that
• 31:33
  I wanted to find a way to,
• 31:35
  you know,
• 31:35
  to make a living,
• 31:36
  um,
• 31:37
  in,
• 31:38
  in running.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: I loved writing.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 31:40
  I had done some interviews for the newspaper that I'd worked at
• 31:45
  and some freelance
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: stuff that,
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: that I was working on.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was like,
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: man,
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like this,
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: this would be the way of life,
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: that he kind of writes about and in his,
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: his letter,
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm running.
• 31:57
  It's something that I enjoy and,
• 31:59
  you know,
• 31:59
  I can help other runners achieve their own goals.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: I can, um,
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: I can write about running.
• 32:05
  And there are a number of ways that you can do that from like
• 32:07
  covering events to,
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: training advice to your own personal reflections.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: I did have a blog at the time where I was doing that.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had all these things.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, how do I make this work?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I was just like, this is, I know what I want to do.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't know how I make this work.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's no blueprint.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm, you know, 25 years old.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have a ton of experience in, you know, in this stuff either.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, so I had this like,
• 32:33
  I had this idea,
• 32:34
  the way of life that I wanted to live,
• 32:37
  but I had no idea how to get there.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it was very like, you know, confusing and strange time.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was definitely a bit of like an existential, you know, crisis.
• 32:47
  So I felt at the time,
• 32:49
  I was like,
• 32:49
  man,
• 32:50
  I'm like,
• 32:50
  I feel like he wrote this letter to me.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was exactly what I needed to, I needed to read right now.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: And again, like just kind of filed it away.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't really revisit it with any,
• 33:01
  any regularity um until i saw it pop back up again online you
• 33:06
  know years later and
• 33:07
  again now it's like an annual thing that i that i'll read huh
• 33:12
  uh you mentioned
• 33:13
  earlier talking about um or thinking about writing a book of
• 33:17
  the stories you had
• 33:18
  from working in the newsroom did you ever did you ever read the
• 33:21
  rum diary the the
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: hunter thompson book yeah yeah yeah i think that was um
• 33:27
  I think that painted a picture of journalism that I thought was
• 33:30
  going to be...
• 33:31
  I think that's one of the reasons I went to grad school for
• 33:34
  journalism and then
• 33:35
  didn't realize it probably wasn't going to be much like that
• 33:38
  semi-fictional book he
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: wrote about newspaper life in the...
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: I guess that would have been like the 60s,
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 33:46
  which was very different than how it would have been like in
• 33:48
  the 80s and 90s and
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: certainly like in the early 2000s.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: I remember,
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: not to go off on too much of a tangent,
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: but when I worked in the newsroom talking to the guys,
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: almost all guys,
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: who had been there for a long time and –
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: hearing some of their stories of when they were my age.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they were probably 50, 60 at the time.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was in my early 20s, so going back, you know, 30, 40 years.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's crazy town.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like, that's absolute crazy town.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we had this guy, I mean...
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now you got me started.
• 34:25
  I mean,
• 34:25
  we had a guy who worked in the newspaper named Bud Barth,
• 34:28
  greatest newspaper name ever.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And he covered hockey and boxing primarily.
• 34:35
  And he was our boxing writer and used to go to all the fights
• 34:38
  at the casinos and
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: would go to Vegas for all the big fights and older guy talking about.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know how when he was covering fights back in like the 70s,
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: how like all the all the boxing writers were like doing drugs ringside,
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: like just all this all this crazy stuff that,
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: used to happen.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I would be blitzed out of my mind.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to like file a story.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: You hear all this stuff.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Very Hunter S. Thompson-esque in that way.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: And part of me is like, that's just not me.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, thank God I wasn't around during that time.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: And thank God that's not how things are now.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm like, that's just wild.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: to close the circle with Hunter Thompson,
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: I believe during the Rumble in the Jungle,
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: the Ali Foreman fight and Zaire,
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: he missed the fight and he was like...
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: I just remember somebody has this,
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: maybe he wrote about just floating in a pool,
• 35:35
  in a swimming pool somewhere during the fight and just missing
• 35:37
  the entire thing
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: because he was on a bender of some sort.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that was happening.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Stephen King's book on writing.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful book about writing.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: I would argue he makes it seem like it's really interesting.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: really not that hard to do, which apparently isn't for him.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like he's like lays out the steps you need to do.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, cool, man.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then just every book I ever write is a bestseller,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: just like you,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: what,
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: when did this come into your life and how is it important?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it came into my life in sometime between 2005 and 2010.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember the exact year.
• 36:22
  And I know it was then because it was after...
• 36:27
  So I guess it would have been 2006,
• 36:29
  2010.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was after I...
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Finished working on the desk at the newspaper, which was around 2006.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: In 2010,
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: when I took the job at Competitor Magazine and moved out to San Diego,
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: because I remember taking this book with me to San Diego.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: It is,
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: to this day,
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: the only Stephen King book that I have ever read,
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: which I don't know what that says.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember just...
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: I would read a lot of interviews with writers,
• 36:59
  and enough of them had mentioned this book that I knew I had to
• 37:04
  pick it up for
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: myself.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to Barnes & Noble, and I picked it up.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: I still have the copy right here.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to be a writer.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was very serious about it.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I want to do.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want to write about running, mostly.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: And even though Stephen King...
• 37:20
  as far as I know,
• 37:21
  probably has never run a day in his life or written about
• 37:23
  running.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I respected his output.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: I respected how highly looked upon he was amongst, amongst other writers.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, he's gotta, he's gotta know something.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: he's put out however many,
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: way more books since then,
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm like,
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: he's put out all these books.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: He's had, you know, numerous bestsellers.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: People are like, you know, like,
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: waiting outside the bookstore for his new books to drop.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I wonder what I can, you know, learn from him.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you make a good point.
• 37:54
  I mean,
• 37:54
  the way that he lays it out in this book,
• 37:57
  it's like,
• 37:57
  well,
• 37:57
  it's not really that hard.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: You just put your butt in the chair every day for a set amount of time.
• 38:04
  And,
• 38:05
  you know,
• 38:05
  eventually a book's gonna come out of it and people will buy
• 38:09
  it.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then you sit down, you do it all over again.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and that's kind of what he's been doing for, you know,
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just, like, decades and decades and decades.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: I have just,
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: passages of this book,
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: that are...
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at it now,
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: like...
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Are we on video?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know we're on video, but is, like, video getting recorded?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: I have, like, this sheet right here that I have, like, page 47.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: End of...
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know, chapter 20.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, these are just, like, passages.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Page 94, last graph.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Page 110, notes on vocabulary.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Page 125, writing is refined thinking.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Page 126, rewriting.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Page 151, daily writing goal.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: Page 175, in quotes, like, keep the ball rolling.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, I, you know, big, you know, kind of quote person.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: I take a lot of notes, like, this sort of stuff.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I still, like, have all that stuff in this book.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I will, like...
• 39:05
  you know,
• 39:05
  go back to it still from time to time,
• 39:08
  mostly when I need a kick in the ass.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Really,
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: everything that he writes,
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: it's to me,
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like,
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: yes,
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: it's just this is just common sense.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's really simple, but it's really, really hard to do.
• 39:20
  And I think he's just been better than,
• 39:22
  you know,
• 39:23
  99.9% of people of like,
• 39:26
  you know,
• 39:26
  doing it.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's worked out pretty well for him.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: I have a couple questions.
• 39:32
  Do you not underline anything in that book that you own,
• 39:36
  that old paperback that you have?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: things are underlined,
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: but then I kind of created this,
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: I guess you would call it maybe an index type of thing,
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: just to make it easier for me to find specific things.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely have like
• 39:52
  you know lines underlined and paragraphs bracketed but here i
• 39:55
  have like the page
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: identified and then like what it was that was on that page that was like
• 39:59
  interesting or you know or meaningful to me so i think that
• 40:02
  just jogs my memory a
• 40:03
  little bit it's like oh i'll go back for this um rather than
• 40:06
  being like hey i knew
• 40:06
  he said this thing about um you know adverbs you know where was
• 40:11
  it and it's like i
• 40:11
  can just you know i can just reference my my little index thing
• 40:15
  here and go right
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: to it so
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Just a note, too.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: He did write The Running Man,
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: but under a pen name,
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Richard Bachman,
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: which is not technically a book about running,
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: although...
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've not read that.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh,
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: it's like a game show set in the future where they pick a poor person,
• 40:35
  and the poor person has to run from these people who are trying
• 40:37
  to kill him.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: And Arnold Schwarzenegger plays the...
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the, uh, main character in the movie.
• 40:43
  Um,
• 40:43
  but it came out in the mid eighties and he wrote it under this
• 40:47
  pen name,
• 40:47
  Richard Bachman.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think he wrote another book under the same pen name.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: I forget why he did that,
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: but there's this whole story about this guy who worked at a bookstore and
• 40:58
  Looking up who had registered the ISBN number or something like
• 41:03
  that and realizing
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: it was Stephen King.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: And Stephen King calls the bookstore and talks to this guy.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, hey, okay, so I guess you figured it out.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want to do?
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: And they end up,
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: basically going public and saying,
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: this is,
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: this is actually Stephen King.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: I did not.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's a, I read that book when I was like 14, I think.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, you said something to the effect of, yeah.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 41:27
  You said something to the effect of all the stuff in this book
• 41:30
  seems like common
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: sense,
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: but you need a kick in the ass.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any parallel for you with coaching?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like the things you tell runners or athletes where
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I feel like this as a writer...
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: sometimes our job is to just like see these things that people know,
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: but they haven't quite found the words for yet.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you know,
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: you're like,
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh,
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: does,
• 41:58
  does the world need another book about creativity or another
• 42:01
  book about running?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of like,
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: if it has like just this,
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: four or five degree tilt to it,
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: it could be the exact right thing somebody needs to hear.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any of that in your coaching or am I totally off base here?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: No,
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: if I'm understanding the question correctly,
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: the parallel that I draw – so like in on writing,
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I'm paraphrasing here,
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: but Stephen King says like if you want to be a writer,
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: you've got to be a reader first.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like you've got to read a lot before you can expect to –
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know, it's half decent as a, you know, as a writer.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yeah, makes sense.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: that's like,
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: of course,
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: if you're going to be like writing these things that people read,
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: like you should read a lot first.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: it just seems like common sense to me,
• 42:50
  but he just puts it out like so plainly and matter of factly
• 42:54
  where you're like,
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: okay, I'm going to read a lot.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I remember that just being really impactful on me.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: as a coach,
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: which,
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've been doing it just as long,
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: 18 years to varying degrees.
• 43:07
  There are a lot of things I just assume or maybe like take for
• 43:12
  granted that other
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: people should know.
• 43:14
  I'm like,
• 43:14
  so if someone comes to me,
• 43:15
  like I want to train for a marathon and I want to
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: achieve this specific goal, break three hours or whatever it is.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, cool.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what it's going to take.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: I write out the training schedule.
• 43:27
  I give them an idea like what the training schedule is going to
• 43:29
  look like.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: You'll be doing long runs that are this long.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: You'll be doing these types of interval workouts.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: Your weekly mileage is going to be this.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: uh, it's going to be a lot of work.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got it.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got it.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like,
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: and you know,
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: in order to,
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: to support that workload,
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: you've got to recover and take care of yourself and,
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: sleep a lot and eat well.
• 43:50
  And,
• 43:51
  um,
• 43:51
  you know,
• 43:52
  all this stuff,
• 43:52
  like stuff on my,
• 43:53
  to me,
• 43:53
  it's just like common sense.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: And some people will hear me say that and they're like,
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah,
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: like I,
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: I get that,
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: but I wouldn't have thought about it if you,
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: if you hadn't
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you hadn't put it and like to me,
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like,
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: that's just obvious,
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: like similar to how Stephen King writes.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: He's like,
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: if you want to be a great writer,
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: you've got to read a lot first,
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: type of thing.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the parallel there is like as a as a running coach,
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: all right,
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 44:15
  if you want to if you want to do this and this is your this is
• 44:19
  what you want to be,
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: you want to be a marathoner.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: you've got to run a lot first,
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: but you've also got to like,
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: take care of yourself so that you can run a lot.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if that's an exact,
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: parallel,
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: but I kind of think about it in the same way.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's nothing that's too,
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: you don't assume that people know anything maybe when you're,
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: when you're starting with them.
• 44:40
  um i try i try to yeah i i try to approach it that way um but
• 44:46
  sometimes i just you
• 44:47
  know some of these things are so ingrained in me that i'm like
• 44:50
  oh of course every
• 44:51
  you know everyone knows like a certain thing and then someone
• 44:53
  will follow up with a
• 44:53
  question like well what do you mean by that i'm like oh all
• 44:55
  right it's it's not you
• 44:57
  know quite that quite that obvious and then i'll explain it and
• 45:00
  it's a very like
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: simple straightforward you know
• 45:03
  explanation just just like that um and they they get it it
• 45:07
  clicks for them i'm like
• 45:08
  oh i needed to do that and i feel like that's what this book
• 45:10
  was for me and why i
• 45:12
  keep revisiting and i'm like okay yeah that's you know that's
• 45:15
  what it is you know
• 45:16
  but it's it's had a profound influence on me i mean i'm sitting
• 45:19
  to you right now
• 45:20
  sitting here talking to you right now and um you can't really
• 45:24
  see it but like my
• 45:25
  desk is in the corner um and wherever i've lived like my desk
• 45:28
  has always been in
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: the corner and there's
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: a line in the book where Stephen King says,
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: he's like,
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: it starts with this,
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: put your desk in the corner.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: And every time you sit down there to write,
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: remind yourself why it isn't in the middle of the room.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Life isn't a support system for art.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's the other way around.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean,
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: it's just like,
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: my wife has asked me,
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: she's like,
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: why don't you move the desk to like the middle of the wall?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, it's gotta be in the corner.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, that's all Stephen King.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure I could do just as much if it were like,
• 46:00
  three feet to the left of me or if it was like in the middle of
• 46:04
  the room.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 46:07
  I remember reading that like during a very formative time for
• 46:09
  me and I was like,
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: whenever I have a desk,
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: it's going to be in the corner because Stephen King says it.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to spoil anything for anybody by explaining this more,
• 46:18
  but my favorite part of that book is that the story about when
• 46:22
  he buys his wife the
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: hairdryer.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's,
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: that's the absolute,
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: it's just such a touching moment from a very innocent time in his career.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you're just like, that is amazing, man.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you put that in that book.
• 46:36
  I need to do like a full reread of it one of these days because
• 46:40
  the way I do use it
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: now is I go back to my little index and I'm like,
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: what am I looking for?
• 46:43
  And I go right to that and I read it and I'm like,
• 46:45
  all right,
• 46:45
  good,
• 46:46
  got it.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I needed.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I get on with my day, but I need to do like a full reread of it.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because I do think, as I was saying earlier, rereading it –
• 46:56
  Something would jump out at me that I had totally forgotten
• 46:58
  about or maybe didn't
• 46:59
  take notes on the first time around because probably a lot of
• 47:03
  the things that I
• 47:06
  struggle with now aren't the same things I struggled with when
• 47:09
  I first read this
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: book in my mid-20s.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 47:14
  It's interesting to think how all that changes too and what are
• 47:17
  the obstacles now.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, number four.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: This was the only one I had no familiarity with at all.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: You just wrote down or you typed John Gruber's Daring Fireball.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk about that and when you found that?
• 47:32
  Yeah,
• 47:32
  so Daring Fireball is a blog that an Apple enthusiast named
• 47:40
  John Gruber
• 47:43
  that an Apple enthusiast named John Gruber started back in
• 47:48
  2002,
• 47:49
  I believe.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I've not been reading it for that long,
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: but I was introduced to it by one of my best friends,
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: a guy named Scott Cropper,
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: who I worked with at Competitor back in like 2010 to,
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think he was there until 2000.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: 12 or so.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: And Scott was a developer on our digital team.
• 48:11
  And anytime I had questions about the website,
• 48:15
  I would go to Scott and he would answer them.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: But Scott was, you know, up on all the latest technology.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: He loved Apple products.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't remember the specific article, but it might've been a
• 48:29
  a review or something along those lines that John Gruber wrote
• 48:33
  for his website,
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Daring Fireball.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he sent it to me, just a link.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I read it and I was like, oh, that was, that was really good.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then I just poked around the site and the site was,
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: as I understand it, hasn't really changed since 2002.
• 48:48
  When everything kind of went responsive around 2010 so that it
• 48:54
  looked good on your
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: mobile device and your iPad and your desktop computer,
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: he just kept it as the same static web page that
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: He'd created himself.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: He's a programmer.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: He had done some design stuff.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very simple, the layout.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a gray background, white type.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: He's got a left sidebar.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, anyway.
• 49:18
  But this guy,
• 49:19
  John Gruber,
• 49:19
  he has been writing this blog now for 20 years.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: He does it full-time.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: He also has a podcast called The Talk Show.
• 49:28
  And he was writing about Apple before Apple was the company
• 49:32
  that we know it as today.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he was always a Mac nerd.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I just...
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love people who are obsessed with things.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: And this guy was obsessed with Apple.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm obsessed with running.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I am a bit of a closet tech nerd and I can thank Scott for like,
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: planting that seed in me.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: But he had pointed me toward John Gruber's blog back in like 2010,
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: 11,
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: somewhere around that time.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been a faithful reader of it.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: Ever since.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I just love how obsessed he is with mostly Apple,
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: but he writes about other tech and stuff like that,
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: too.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: But it's just like he he long ago,
• 50:18
  like established himself as like kind of the go to guy for
• 50:20
  anything Apple.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when he writes about something that the company does or puts out,
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: even when he's he's critical,
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: people pay attention to it.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: it's clear that he has built up just a lot of,
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: respect and kind of like,
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: capital,
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: I guess.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, in that space.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I also just appreciate how he's like with the website itself.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, well, if it's not broke, I'm just not going to fix it.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: people like he has instructions on there and like how you can like,
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: do something very simple on your phone and it'll like,
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: bring the text up to make it bigger so that you can read it.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything he does is like very simple.
• 51:07
  It's very nerdy,
• 51:07
  but it's very thoughtful and considered,
• 51:10
  which I always appreciate.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway,
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: he started writing this blog,
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: because I've heard him tell the story a few times,
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: when he was working at a software company as an employee.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: He started doing this on the side.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 51:27
  He loved it more than his job and was like,
• 51:29
  how can I how can I just do this?
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how can I just write Daring Fireball and make it my job?
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he he tried a bunch of different things.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: He sold T-shirts.
• 51:39
  He did like a membership platform before like any of the tools
• 51:43
  that we have today,
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: like Patreon or Facebook.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: What's the company?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: Memberful is a company they acquired,
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: like before all these like,
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: out of the box things existed.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: And he was a programmer,
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: so he could do it all himself,
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: which,
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: in the early blogging days,
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: this is before Blogger and anything else.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: you could only have a blog if you had the technical chops to,
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: put one together.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he did.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been going it's been going ever since.
• 52:09
  But he tried all these different things because that's what he
• 52:10
  wanted to do.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: And someone told him – they were like,
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: John,
• 52:17
  this is never going to be your full-time job if you don't treat
• 52:19
  it like a full-time
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: job.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, you know what?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: And he quit his job,
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: and he went all in on Daring Fireball,
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: had some support from his wife while he tried to figure things out,
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: and tried all these different ways of –
• 52:35
  you know,
• 52:36
  monetizing it so that he could do that as his career and as his
• 52:40
  job.
• 52:41
  And what ultimately worked the best and is still more or less
• 52:46
  his model to this day
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: was sponsorship from,
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to say tech companies,
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: but like,
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: in like indie tech companies,
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 52:57
  like Apple's never sponsored his blog or Microsoft's never
• 53:00
  sponsored his blog.
• 53:00
  It's like all these little like indie tech companies that
• 53:02
  you've never heard of who
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: make an app or,
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: have,
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: have something that they've,
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: they've kind of created,
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: but that'll be interesting to,
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: to his audience.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he started selling these like weekly sponsorships and he would, um,
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank them at the beginning of the week.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thank them at the end of the week.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank them like on his, you know, on his Twitter feed.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, he posts his rates right on the website.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: You could reserve dates and all that stuff.
• 53:30
  And it got to the point where it was viable enough that,
• 53:34
  you know,
• 53:35
  it was making him a living.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I followed that with as much interest as I did the content itself.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I'm like, huh, I'm like, well, this is cool.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's a,
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: he's like a,
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: he's a one man show and he's doing what he wants to do,
• 53:52
  which is writing about Apple and writing whatever the hell he
• 53:55
  wants to write.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's his, that's his job.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: He can devote himself to it full time.
• 54:01
  And he like found this way to,
• 54:02
  you know,
• 54:03
  make it,
• 54:03
  you know,
• 54:03
  make it viable.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: And, and I was like, as interested in that as I was the content, but
• 54:08
  Never really thought beyond that,
• 54:11
  but I knew that I wanted to work for myself someday.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: If I could draw an ideal blueprint,
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: it would be,
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: all right,
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be a coach and a writer.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I,
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: I had been thinking about that for like a long time and I was like,
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: all right,
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: like I said back,
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: this is,
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: even years prior,
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like,
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: all right,
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: this is the way of life that I want to have.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I have no idea how to do it.
• 54:39
  So I started having those thoughts again after like coming
• 54:41
  across Daring Fireball.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, oh, this is inspiring.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like this guy, you know, found, you know, found a way to do it.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and fast forward to, you know, five years later, um,
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: 2015 when I launched the morning shakeout email newsletter,
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: or as an email newsletter,
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was like,
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to do this thing because it's a creative itch that,
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: that I have to scratch.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: And, and honestly, I had zero business ambitions behind it at the time.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, none at all.
• 55:12
  Um,
• 55:13
  hadn't even been thinking about like the business side of like
• 55:15
  daring fireball,
• 55:15
  but
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: he was my inspiration to like start this thing.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, do I start a blog?
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do I write a magazine book?
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was working at competitor at the time.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I really wanted this outlet where I could just,
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: write about running,
• 55:29
  but write about the things I couldn't write about for
• 55:30
  competitor and in a way that
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't write about them for competitor.
• 55:34
  But I could also write about whatever the hell I wanted to
• 55:37
  because it was mine.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I bought the domain and I
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: thought through all these different things and,
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: eventually decided,
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: all right,
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to go with an email newsletter.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: And this is before like,
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: there are email newsletters,
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: but they aren't,
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: they weren't what they are now.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there was no sub stack, uh, you know, there was no review.
• 55:58
  There was no like,
• 55:59
  you know,
• 55:59
  all these different ways that you could just,
• 56:01
  just make it.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: and I started the morning shakeout as an email newsletter and I was like,
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: put something out.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to put it out every week because that's what John Gruber did.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: John Gruber would do one big blog post every week for daring firewall.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then he eventually got into like,
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: when he's doing it full time,
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: we do one big blog post and then like,
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: fill it with little snippets in between.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: so it was like a huge inspiration for me,
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: when I was launching the morning shakeout and then fast forward a year.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: I had left competitor to join a startup in San Francisco.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you do.
• 56:35
  The idea behind the startup was to make running coaching more
• 56:42
  accessible and
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: affordable than it previously was.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: Long story short,
• 56:47
  it was a failed three-month experiment where they ran out of
• 56:50
  money and couldn't pay
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: me.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: And my wife did not like hearing that I had only two paychecks left.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: And my wife told me, she's like, well, this is your chance.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: You have a month to figure it out.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: You've always wanted to hustle.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: Go hustle.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I had this moment.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, all right, what do I want to do?
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I want to coach and I want to write.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I want to do.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: I want to like kind of like John Gruber had that moment where he's like,
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to write the I just want to write Daring Fireball.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to write the morning shakeout.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was already doing a little bit of coaching.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, well, that's easy enough to scale.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just take on more athletes.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: But like, how, how can I write the morning shakeout?
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I thought of John Gerber and daring fireball.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I'm going to do sponsorships.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, there are no other running newsletters at the time.
• 57:39
  And I was like,
• 57:41
  let me,
• 57:42
  you know,
• 57:42
  let me let me see if I could do this like sponsorship thing.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I was like, weekly sounds a little risky to me.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, maybe I can go monthly.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have a ton of subscribers.
• 57:54
  I mean I had like a thousand – a little over a thousand
• 57:56
  subscribers at the time.
• 57:57
  So I had no idea what that meant in terms of like monetization
• 58:02
  or anything.
• 58:04
  And Matt Taylor,
• 58:05
  who is the founder of Tracksmith,
• 58:08
  is a longtime friend of mine.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: And he was one of my first subscribers to the morning shakeout.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: I remember from the day I announced it, he's like, this is cool.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited that you're doing this.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to read it.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: Let me know if there's any way that I can support you.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he had planted that seed a couple times.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, hey, is there any way that we could...
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know, work together.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: And, and I was like, you know, this was before I, I didn't have a job.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I was like, I was like, I don't know yet, man.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, you know, I'm just trying to do this thing.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 58:41
  once the startup thing failed and Christine gave me a month to
• 58:44
  figure it out,
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: Matt Taylor was the first person I called and I was like,
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: so I'm like,
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: here's my situation.
• 58:49
  Um,
• 58:50
  would Tracksmith like to,
• 58:52
  would like to sponsor the morning shakeout for a month?
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: And, um, so I can stay married.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I can stay there and have some income.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, yeah, he's like, I'm willing to explore that.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, how much does it cost?
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't know.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: so I,
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: I went back to him and gave him a price and he's like,
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: we'll take two months.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, ah, probably didn't price it high enough, but whatever.
• 59:18
  I'm like,
• 59:19
  it's,
• 59:20
  I've got sponsors for,
• 59:21
  you know,
• 59:21
  for,
• 59:22
  for the next couple of months.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that's only grown from there.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: But that's all John Gruber and Daring Fireball.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: he was like,
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 59:30
  kind of the creative inspiration for what eventually became The
• 59:33
  Morning Shakeout,
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: which was to have this,
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: for me,
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: it was a newsletter.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: For him, it's a blog.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: But to have this outlet where I could be creative and write about
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: the things that I am just like,
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: over the top obsessed with,
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: or just things like I'm just kind of interested in,
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: or like some half-baked ideas I just want to like,
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: put out into the world.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: And, um, you know, that, that's all him.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: and the sponsorship model,
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: which is,
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: is still going to this day and is definitely,
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: been refined a few times.
• 1:00:06
  I mean,
• 1:00:07
  that's also all of John Gruber and,
• 1:00:09
  and daring fireball and,
• 1:00:11
  um,
• 1:00:11
  um,
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: it's,
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: it's interesting because now there's like,
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: more running newsletters than you could possibly read every week.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the,
• 1:00:24
  the sponsors that are sponsoring running newsletters started
• 1:00:27
  with the morning
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: shakeout.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's like a little, you know, point of pride for me type of thing.
• 1:00:32
  But like,
• 1:00:33
  I,
• 1:00:33
  I owe all that to,
• 1:00:34
  you know,
• 1:00:35
  to John Gruber and it's still like,
• 1:00:37
  you know,
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: helping me make most of my living today.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where, that's where Daring Fireball and John Gruber come in.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: I've never met the guy.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've sent him an email once.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he replied.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to have a conversation with him.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: I've listened to his podcast.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think he jogs like very recreationally,
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: but I would love to just have a conversation with him at some point.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: And like,
• 1:01:00
  thank him because he definitely doesn't know me or know of the
• 1:01:03
  morning shakeout for
• 1:01:05
  for being not only like my creative inspiration but you know
• 1:01:08
  also just kind of
• 1:01:09
  showing me a way that i i could do this uh and make part of my
• 1:01:14
  my living from it um
• 1:01:16
  so yeah that's where that's where that comes from yeah um i
• 1:01:21
  still read them like
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: every week yeah
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's still up, yeah.
• 1:01:26
  Are you comfortable saying how many subscribers you have now
• 1:01:28
  because you started
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: with less than 1,000 when you got your first sponsorship?
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: Approaching like 11,500.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's held pretty stable the last couple of years.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: there's always some natural turn and the new people sign up,
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: but it's held right around there for a little while now.
• 1:01:45
  So when you say those sponsors that are sponsoring other
• 1:01:48
  running newsletters
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: started with the morning shakeout,
• 1:01:50
  can they just no longer afford you and they're going to the
• 1:01:52
  smaller ones now?
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the deal or is it like...
• 1:01:55
  No,
• 1:01:56
  I'm really fortunate because Tracksmith is still one of my
• 1:01:59
  sponsors to this day.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they've been with me since day one.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: And they're going to be partners with me through all of 2023.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: They're just sponsoring others as well, which is great.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, they're getting in front of more people that way.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:18
  There are a couple brands that I no longer partner with,
• 1:02:22
  and that's okay.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that happens.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: I expect it to.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: But, I mean, Tracksmith's been with me since day one.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: I feel really grateful for that relationship.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't take it for granted.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: New Balance now has been a sponsor of mine for four years now.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is our fourth year working together.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they've been in for a while.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: Precision Fuel and Hydration has been for a while,
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: but all of these brands are also sponsoring other newsletters as well.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think,
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:02:54
  there have been other brands that have never even approached me
• 1:02:57
  who probably looked
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: at this and were like,
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: this is an interesting space.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we can...
• 1:03:03
  We can partner with individuals or media entities in this way
• 1:03:09
  and really get in
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: front of an enthusiastic audience.
• 1:03:16
  And again,
• 1:03:18
  what I appreciated about Gruber's approach is he had one
• 1:03:22
  sponsor per week.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was exclusive.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: And he does it in a very tasteful way.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: there's a tiny little – I wouldn't even call it a banner ad,
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: but just like a tiny little visual –
• 1:03:32
  in the left-hand column of his very,
• 1:03:34
  like,
• 1:03:34
  outdated website that stays there.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he does the same thing where he,
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: thanks the sponsor at the beginning of the week,
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: thanks him at the end of the week,
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: also thanks him through social media.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_01: But there's only one sponsor per week.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that was very important to me because I didn't want to –
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to just take money from any brand.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm very selective about the brands that I work with.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I also want the,
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: in the case of the newsletter anyway,
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_01: the reader to have a great experience,
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 1:03:59
  So I don't want to have this newsletter every week that's just
• 1:04:02
  littered with ads.
• 1:04:04
  Because,
• 1:04:05
  you know,
• 1:04:05
  then it's obvious you've just sold out and you're taking money
• 1:04:08
  from whoever.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean...
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: Even now,
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: like because I partner with,
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: Tracksmith,
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: which is an apparel brand,
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: New Balance Footwear brand,
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: Precision Fuel and Hydration,
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: which is like,
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: fueling products.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to partner with competing brands because,
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: it would be bullshit of me to say every week,
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_01: these are the best shoes.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then next week, these are the best shoes.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like,
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_01: no,
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like,
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_01: these are actually like brands that I believe in and,
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: whose products that I use on a,
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: on a regular basis.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not just going to be here,
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:04:41
  hawking someone else's products next week because they're going
• 1:04:43
  to give me like
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_01: twice as much money.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's, and that's happened.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: and you see,
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_01: especially,
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:04:48
  that's like somebody who's self-employed and you're a brand and
• 1:04:51
  they're like,
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_01: we want to give you this amount of money.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, oh, wow, that's really, that's, that's a lot of money.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's really appealing.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's not happening to me, just for the record.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_01: and you have to be like,
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_01: but that that's not a brand that like that has products that I use.
• 1:05:09
  And like,
• 1:05:09
  you know,
• 1:05:10
  my my trust with my readers and my listeners is everything.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, if I if I abuse that people are going to know.
• 1:05:17
  right away and and then this thing's going to fail to be
• 1:05:21
  sustainable i i mean maybe
• 1:05:23
  be sustainable for a little while longer but it's like you know
• 1:05:27
  readers and and
• 1:05:28
  listeners are very smart and discerning people uh and i think
• 1:05:31
  they can you know
• 1:05:33
  they know bullshit when they see it um and that's been like
• 1:05:36
  super important to me
• 1:05:36
  from like a sponsorship models like that i'm um partnering with
• 1:05:40
  brands that i that
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: i believe in and that's something like
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: I really respect it about Gruber and Daring Fireball.
• 1:05:46
  He's like,
• 1:05:46
  I'm just not going to take money from any old app that comes my
• 1:05:52
  way.
• 1:05:52
  He's like,
• 1:05:53
  I actually want to be able to use the app because he gives a
• 1:05:55
  personal endorsement.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_01: I do the same thing.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that's all Daring Fireball and John Gruber.
• 1:06:01
  Huge,
• 1:06:03
  both creative inspiration on me,
• 1:06:05
  but also commercial inspiration,
• 1:06:09
  I guess we would say.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I might be making this up,
• 1:06:14
  but I feel like somebody sort of coined a term for those people
• 1:06:17
  who are mentors,
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: but they don't know they're mentoring you.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 1:06:21
  it's like a long distance thing and it's like you've chosen
• 1:06:24
  them as a role model
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: and you're like watching what they do from afar,
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: but they have no idea you exist.
• 1:06:30
  I'll try to look it up,
• 1:06:31
  but I have many of those as well where I'm just a fan of the
• 1:06:35
  person.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of like, what are they going to do next?
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the cool thing that to know that that's how,
• 1:06:41
  it's a cool to know that that's how the New Balance and
• 1:06:44
  Tracksmith mentions get in
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: your newsletters because of,
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: because of that sort of structure and inspiration there.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: Number five, a 51 second song called Little Room by the White Stripes.
• 1:06:58
  um i think this is the album okay well okay i have the lyrics
• 1:07:03
  right here but um
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_00: this is the album.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think this kind of blew them up.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next out, this was in 2000.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next one after this really blew them up.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this like,
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_00: seven nation army gets played in stadiums,
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_00: like football and basketball games and stuff like that.
• 1:07:20
  But little room,
• 1:07:21
  not probably like a really well-known white stripes song.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_00: What is it?
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_00: What is it about the song that makes, that makes it so special to you?
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_01: before we get to the song,
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: so White Stripes were,
• 1:07:34
  or the White Stripes were introduced to me in college by still
• 1:07:38
  one of my best
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: friends to this day,
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_01: Bergie,
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_01: who was a DJ at the college radio station,
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: WSHL at Stonehill College.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_01: And he was also one of my,
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_01: he was one of my teammates on the cross country team,
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_01: but he was also one of my blockmates.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we lived in the same dorm.
• 1:07:52
  And he discovered the the White Stripes while he was DJing for
• 1:07:59
  the college radio station.
• 1:08:00
  And I would listen to his show and I was like,
• 1:08:03
  oh,
• 1:08:03
  this is he was like really into it.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this is cool.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm, you know, I'm into it.
• 1:08:08
  And then it wasn't more than like a year later that they
• 1:08:11
  started getting some
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_01: mainstream traction.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it was this album.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_01: that really kind of kicked it off for them.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_01: That was white blood cells, I believe.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_01: But this song,
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: which was on that album,
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: I had listened to it,
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_01: but it didn't mean anything to me at the time.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I still love the White Stripes.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love Jack White.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean...
• 1:08:41
  to this day and I mean it was just one of those things where
• 1:08:43
  similar to books like
• 1:08:45
  I revisited the album at some point in the last let's call it
• 1:08:51
  five years I don't
• 1:08:52
  know exactly when it was but I revisited the album and I'm
• 1:08:55
  really big into lyrics
• 1:08:56
  and as you said it's a short song it's under a minute long and
• 1:09:01
  I'm like listening
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_01: to the words and with some real intent for the first time I'm like
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I get it.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I mean, it's such a short song.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_01: We just go through lyrics.
• 1:09:14
  But the song says,
• 1:09:16
  well,
• 1:09:17
  you're in your little room and you're working on something
• 1:09:20
  good.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's really good, you're going to need a bigger room.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're in the bigger room, you might not know what to do.
• 1:09:29
  you might have to think of how you got started sitting in your
• 1:09:32
  little room.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's like,
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: at the end,
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: that's,
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: that's the extent of the singing you're getting from me.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, it's all, you know, it's all, it's all right there.
• 1:09:41
  And I mean,
• 1:09:41
  I think about it,
• 1:09:43
  you know,
• 1:09:44
  for,
• 1:09:44
  for,
• 1:09:44
  for me,
• 1:09:45
  like how I connect to it.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is anyone who's ever worked on anything,
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_01: creative,
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_01: but like,
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think of the morning shakeout and like,
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_01: I started this thing while I was working full time at competitor and,
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd been kicking the idea around in my head for a while.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: At the time,
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was on Twitter,
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_01: and I remember putting a tweet out and said,
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: this thing is going to drop next Tuesday.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you're interested in reading it, subscribe here.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean I think the first issue went out to less than 200 people.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_01: and there was a good,
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_01: there was a good response to it and the readership grew,
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_01: so I'm,
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_01: and people were enjoying it and I was enjoying working on it.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_01: and you know,
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_01: as,
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_01: as I was,
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_01: as I was doing that,
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_01: eventually it kind of like got to a point where I'm like,
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh shit.
• 1:10:41
  Like I,
• 1:10:42
  I,
• 1:10:43
  I was using,
• 1:10:43
  I still use MailChimp to send it out and I'm like,
• 1:10:46
  Oh,
• 1:10:46
  I,
• 1:10:46
  I,
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sending this out to over 2,000 people.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_01: I got to start paying for it.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is costing me money.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then as we just talked about a little while ago,
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: this is what I want to be spending my time on.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_01: How can I make it part of my work, how I make a living and monetize it?
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_01: I do think it changes your relationship to it when you get to that point.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because all of a sudden,
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: at least for me,
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_01: like I'm a little more aware,
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: more people are reading this.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I need to continue doing like a,
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:11:22
  a good job so that I can keep getting sponsorship till I kind
• 1:11:26
  of keep doing this.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly,
• 1:11:29
  I've had moments in the seven and a half years that I've
• 1:11:32
  written The Morning
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Shakeout where –
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't fun.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_01: At first, it was just fun.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I've put this out every week now for 375 straight weeks.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've not missed a week.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not going to lie.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_01: It can be a chore sometimes.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I...
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I had a,
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_01: I got to a point,
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't tell you exactly where this was,
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_01: where I was like,
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: maybe I'll just stop doing it.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's, you know, there's just too much pressure.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's too many people reading it.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_01: even though that's cool,
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_01: it's like,
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_01: you start getting feedback on it and,
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_01: that's,
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_01: that's weird.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_01: You're like,
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_01: this might,
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_01: maybe my,
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_01: if I don't do a good job,
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_01: like the sponsors might drop me,
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_01: then I'm not going to be like making any money off of it.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then,
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know, how am I going to pay for it again, like type of thing.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_01: I had to,
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_01: I go back to that song because I'm like,
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in a bigger room now.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's like over 11,000 people reading this thing.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's like a sponsor on it every week.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do I, like, I don't know what to do.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's in the songs.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like you might not know what to do.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't know what to do.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:12:41
  I do this with my runners that I coach sometimes who get too in
• 1:12:45
  their head about
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_01: it.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because I definitely got too in my head about the newsletter.
• 1:12:49
  um the last two lines of song you might have to think of how
• 1:12:51
  you got started
• 1:12:52
  sitting in your little room like before this thing was you know
• 1:12:56
  before it had you
• 1:12:57
  know over 10 000 subscribers before it was like making money
• 1:13:01
  for me um you know
• 1:13:02
  with running like you know before you qualify for boston or
• 1:13:05
  you're breaking three
• 1:13:06
  hours in the marathon like you gotta think about why you got
• 1:13:08
  started in the first
• 1:13:09
  place um you know that's a journaling exercise i have my
• 1:13:12
  athletes do it's something
• 1:13:14
  i do all the time and i needed to take my own advice and this
• 1:13:17
  this song like
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's where it took on new meaning for me.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like,
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 1:13:21
  like I got to listen to the song and I would listen to it and
• 1:13:24
  like it would force
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_01: me to think about,
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_01: while sitting in my cubicle,
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_01: a competitor being like,
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_01: man,
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_01: I just I really want to do this thing.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_01: I really want to put it out because I've got X,
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Y and Z to say and I want to,
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_01: do this and that.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_01: and like,
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_01: I need to do that still,
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_01: to,
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_01: to this day,
• 1:13:42
  because it just gives me that reminder of like why I started it
• 1:13:44
  in the first place.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And when I can do that, I feel like that's when I'm at my best.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I feel like, you know, the work is at its best.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I,
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_01: I,
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like when I,
• 1:13:52
  I'm aware of the fact that there are like 11,000 plus people
• 1:13:56
  reading it and like,
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_01: there's a sponsor paying attention to every week,
• 1:14:03
  paying attention every week to how many people like clicked on
• 1:14:05
  their link or use
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_01: their code or
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_01: When I get too wrapped up in that stuff,
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_01: or I let that affect maybe what I put in there in a given week,
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_01: it's not as fun.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's some of my best stuff.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_01: But when I just get back to why I did it in the first place,
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_01: that little room,
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_01: that cubicle,
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_01: when I was like,
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_01: ah,
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_01: this is something good.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it's going to be, but it's something good.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's when it's the most fun.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's when I'm at my best with it.
• 1:14:37
  means to me so so to go back there do you have to do you ever
• 1:14:43
  go back and read your
• 1:14:44
  old stuff like do you go back to morning shakeout number one
• 1:14:47
  and two and be like
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_00: yep
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Are you like,
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_00: I had such different energy or holy shit,
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe how bad of a writer I was.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_00: All those things.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_01: All those, all those things.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I just,
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_01: and you can go to the morningshakeout.com slash,
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's archives,
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_01: past issues.
• 1:15:05
  If you click off the homepage,
• 1:15:06
  you can go all the way back to the first issue.
• 1:15:08
  I mean,
• 1:15:08
  you scroll back quite a ways now,
• 1:15:09
  but you can go back and read it.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you see like,
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_01: what's kind of remained the same and sort of like what's changed,
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_01: from the obvious stuff from a design standpoint.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: then the writing itself and,
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_01: the tone that I use and the things that I linked off to and
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_01: I need to do that every so often.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good reminder.
• 1:15:32
  And there is some stuff that anyone who's ever put anything out
• 1:15:36
  into the world,
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_01: you go back and revisit some of your earliest things and you're like,
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_01: it's a little cringeworthy.
• 1:15:41
  And I certainly have those moments,
• 1:15:43
  but some of the stuff I'm like,
• 1:15:44
  oh,
• 1:15:44
  damn,
• 1:15:44
  I wrote that.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, and that was pretty good.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Or I'm proud of it, or I'm still doing that.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I need that reminder because you forget.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_01: You've been doing something long enough, you forget.
• 1:15:55
  I mean,
• 1:15:55
  after seven and a half years,
• 1:15:57
  I'm like,
• 1:15:57
  I don't remember what the...
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote at the end of 2015, like, like, I don't remember.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think back to it with with the morning shakeout for me specifically,
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_01: like it's evolved,
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_01: like the newsletter is definitely evolved over the years.
• 1:16:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:16:12
  one of its primary functions when it first came out was for me
• 1:16:15
  to like essentially
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_01: have a column and be critical of things that were happening in the sport.
• 1:16:20
  And I think I did a good job of that for a while,
• 1:16:23
  but it stopped being fun.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not fun.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're,
• 1:16:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:16:27
  SPEAKER_01: you're kind of like reaching for things to,
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_01: to write about sometimes.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't enjoy that.
• 1:16:33
  And what I've always enjoyed from day one is just the part of
• 1:16:36
  it that's super personal.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like whether it's sharing an update from my life or,
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_01: like you mentioned at the top of the show,
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_01: like music that I've been listening to.
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_01: I have something that I've,
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_01: something that I've read or some half-baked idea that I'm thinking.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing that from day one and now I'm just doing more of it.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like really,
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I had a period like probably five and a half,
• 1:16:58
  six years in where I was just like not having fun with the
• 1:17:00
  newsletter anymore.
• 1:17:01
  And it just felt very forced and,
• 1:17:04
  you know,
• 1:17:04
  people were expecting a certain like –
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_01: What's Mario's take going to be on this and that?
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I don't want to have a take anymore.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to.
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember there was a case in running where this runner,
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Shelby Houlihan,
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_01: who's one of the top runners in the country,
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_01: got busted for doping.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it was on a Monday that this happened, that it was announced.
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I write.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_01: or put the finishing touches on the newsletter anyway.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that broke me.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it broke me.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_01: I stayed up super late because I was like,
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_01: ah,
• 1:17:37
  people are going to be wondering what Mario's going to say
• 1:17:38
  about the Shelby
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Houlihan case.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And to be fair,
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_01: people were,
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_01: but I put all this pressure on myself to,
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_01: have the best,
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_01: first take.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought I had a good take, and it was, you know, it was long.
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was, like, you know, two...
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_01: 3000 words, something like that.
• 1:17:54
  And I remember like I sent it out and I just felt kind of,
• 1:17:57
  I felt kind of empty.
• 1:17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that wasn't fun.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of work went into that.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And like a lot of work goes in the other stuff too.
• 1:18:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm like, none of that was like enjoyable to me.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And like,
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_01: After that, I was like, I don't think I'm going to do that anymore.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, I'd already been not enjoying it.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that one, like, just was the straw that broke the camel's back.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like,
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm just going to make this like kind of more personal,
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_01: more personal than anything else.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like evolved and like it took some time, but it kind of.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_01: it made it enjoyable for me again.
• 1:18:28
  Like it was like,
• 1:18:29
  I still have that,
• 1:18:31
  that excitement and honestly wonder every week.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what am I going to write about?
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like, what am I going to share this week?
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And like, what do I get to explore?
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said,
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_01: curiosity,
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_01: really like creativity is just the actualization of curiosity.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, that's really what that newsletter is for me every week.
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I felt like I got away from that for a while.
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like what I was curious about.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was what I thought other people would be interested in.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah,
• 1:18:56
  you know,
• 1:18:57
  now I,
• 1:18:58
  I just like follow my curiosity and,
• 1:19:00
  and put that in there.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And, and really that's how this whole thing got started.
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_01: and that's where,
• 1:19:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_01: the song,
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_01: which,
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_01: when I,
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_01: when I need that,
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_01: similar to how I go back to,
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Stephen King and I,
• 1:19:12
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_01: read something in on writing that I need,
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'll listen to that song when I just need to be reminded that nope,
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_01: gotta go back to the little room,
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_01: and,
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_01: and stay true to,
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_01: stay true to why I started doing this in the first place.
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think I have to remind myself that too,
• 1:19:27
  where it's like people don't really want to hear somebody –
• 1:19:31
  hear from somebody
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_00: who's like making it feel like work.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_00: They want to be – they want somebody who's having fun.
• 1:19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not having fun, it shows.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like you got to –
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_00: if you're not having fun,
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_00: just take a break or do something different,
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_00: but it's,
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_00: it's tough week to week.
• 1:19:45
  SPEAKER_00: I feel you.
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 1:19:47
  also I think you could probably take a couple of weeks off and
• 1:19:49
  people wouldn't,
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_00: wouldn't be calling for your head on a pike.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think you'd be okay.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's, um, I don't, I don't disagree with you.
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, the coach in me knows this, right?
• 1:19:59
  I mean,
• 1:19:59
  this is like runners who just want to run every day and not
• 1:20:02
  take any,
• 1:20:03
  any time off.
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like,
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:20:05
  you could take a week off and it's actually probably going to
• 1:20:07
  benefit you.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure it would with the newsletter, but I mean,
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly the endurance athletes listening to this,
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_01: but also the creatives,
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_01: you kind of get in a groove with something,
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_01: and then,
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_01: at least speaking for myself,
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_01: you refuse to let go.
• 1:20:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, I'm the fucking Cal Ripken of running newsletters.
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just going to keep this streak going so that it can't be snapped.
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's,
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_01: I admit,
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've definitely had some weeks where,
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_01: I probably just shouldn't have put anything out.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I did anyway.
• 1:20:40
  But I feel like it's in,
• 1:20:41
  like,
• 1:20:41
  a good place now because I do take,
• 1:20:43
  like,
• 1:20:43
  I do take vacation.
• 1:20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I do take time away from work.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I realize that that is important and essential to this.
• 1:20:51
  But,
• 1:20:51
  like,
• 1:20:52
  I also,
• 1:20:53
  at least certainly with the newsletter,
• 1:20:55
  it's been Tuesday morning,
• 1:20:57
  you know,
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_01: every week for seven and a half years.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, technology is great.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_01: You can schedule things now.
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like,
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I can,
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can do a little bit of work and just,
• 1:21:07
  SPEAKER_01: I let people know,
• 1:21:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like,
• 1:21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hey,
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be,
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be gone.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So this, I, you know, this is, you know, some prepackaged content.
• 1:21:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've done stuff where I,
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_01: I have enough back issues now where I'm like,
• 1:21:17
  SPEAKER_01: let me just pull out some like greatest hits,
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_01: like some evergreen,
• 1:21:19
  like type of stuff that I revisit from time to time and like
• 1:21:23
  share it with like
• 1:21:23
  SPEAKER_01: some of my new subscribers who may have missed it.
• 1:21:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the,
• 1:21:26
  the first time around so i feel like there's ways that i can
• 1:21:28
  like you know keep it
• 1:21:29
  going and still um you know provide value to the people who are
• 1:21:35
  reading it and
• 1:21:35
  enjoyment to the people who like literally have come to expect
• 1:21:39
  it now every week i
• 1:21:40
  mean it's become a part of people's weeks which is uh uh which
• 1:21:43
  is you know really
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_01: really flattering but also like give myself a bit of a break from like
• 1:21:48
  you know,
• 1:21:48
  being up late on a Monday because Mondays are long days for me.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're very long days.
• 1:21:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:21:52
  SPEAKER_01: they're busy from a coaching standpoint because,
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_01: endurance athletes do,
• 1:21:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:21:57
  hard things over the weekend and you got to check in with them
• 1:22:00
  about that.
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then I've got to like,
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:22:03
  put this thing out so that it's or work on this thing so I can
• 1:22:06
  put it out like the
• 1:22:07
  SPEAKER_01: next morning and I do schedule it.
• 1:22:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, you know, my Mondays oftentimes go from like
• 1:22:12
  SPEAKER_01: you know, 9 a.m.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_01: till close to midnight sometimes.
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like a, you know, it's a long day.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Not every week, but a lot of weeks, it's pretty long like that.
• 1:22:22
  So I do,
• 1:22:22
  but I do get,
• 1:22:23
  I do take breaks from that,
• 1:22:24
  like,
• 1:22:24
  throughout the year.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_01: it'll be a weird morning,
• 1:22:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 1:22:30
  SPEAKER_01: when,
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_01: for me,
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm certain for people who've been reading it long enough,
• 1:22:35
  if and when the morning shakeout just doesn't show up in your
• 1:22:37
  inbox on a Tuesday.
• 1:22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Just do a blank one and just says,
• 1:22:43
  SPEAKER_00: tell me you love me in reply to this email or I'm never coming back.
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see if that helps.
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_00: The White Stripes famous two-person duo.
• 1:22:55
  I feel like the only other one that's on the top of my head is
• 1:22:58
  the Black Keys,
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_00: which is also a two-person rock duo.
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, other than rappers, I guess.
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:23:04
  Did you watch It Might Get Loud,
• 1:23:08
  the film Jack White made with Jimmy Page in The Edge?
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just those three?
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's right.
• 1:23:17
  SPEAKER_01: I need to jog my memory a little bit.
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's about guitar playing,
• 1:23:21
  and Jack White builds a guitar out of a piece of wood on the
• 1:23:25
  porch of this house.
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's very...
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_01: He's an eclectic and interesting man.
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_00: but you kind of feel like he wants to put that image out,
• 1:23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I guess,
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_00: is what I feel like in the movie.
• 1:23:38
  But my favorite part in the film is Jimmy Page and his closet
• 1:23:41
  full of guitars.
• 1:23:42
  And I think he's playing Ramble On,
• 1:23:44
  just by himself,
• 1:23:45
  just like,
• 1:23:45
  oh,
• 1:23:45
  yeah,
• 1:23:46
  this one.
• 1:23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he just starts ripping on it.
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you're just like, oh, my God, this is amazing.
• 1:23:50
  SPEAKER_00: This guy is just, yeah.
• 1:23:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fun film, I think.
• 1:23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I need to watch that again.
• 1:23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I know you have more.
• 1:24:00
  SPEAKER_00: We've been going for an hour and 26 minutes, I think.
• 1:24:04
  SPEAKER_01: We could probably go for hours.
• 1:24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:24:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't go quite as deep on these,
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_01: but some that I had thought of after I'd sent you my list of five.
• 1:24:13
  SPEAKER_01: One –
• 1:24:15
  SPEAKER_01: people can definitely search for online.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's something I linked to in my newsletter a lot,
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_01: but not quite John Gruber level inspiration,
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_01: but there's a writer named Seth Godin and he's had a blog for a long,
• 1:24:26
  SPEAKER_01: long,
• 1:24:26
  SPEAKER_01: long time every day.
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think he's missed a day for God, probably 20 years.
• 1:24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like if not over that.
• 1:24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean,
• 1:24:36
  SPEAKER_01: he's talked about his process in some places where,
• 1:24:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:24:39
  SPEAKER_01: some of his posts are really short.
• 1:24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean like two or three sentences.
• 1:24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them are very long, but I think he, um,
• 1:24:45
  kind of batches his writing time and he'll he'll bang out you
• 1:24:48
  know like maybe a
• 1:24:50
  month's worth you know in a day or something like that and then
• 1:24:53
  they just you know
• 1:24:54
  they kind of get published it's not sitting there every day
• 1:24:55
  which i'm like damn i
• 1:24:56
  wish i had that kind of like discipline sometimes um to be fair
• 1:25:00
  some of them could
• 1:25:01
  be tweets they're that short so no they are yeah i mean they're
• 1:25:04
  definitely like
• 1:25:05
  tweet length but he doesn't use social media either i mean i
• 1:25:07
  think he has social
• 1:25:08
  media but it's just like kind of he doesn't interact with
• 1:25:11
  anyone or scroll or
• 1:25:12
  SPEAKER_01: follow he just like
• 1:25:13
  SPEAKER_01: It just, like, sends out that day's blog post.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_01: But some of them could just be, like, a tweet.
• 1:25:17
  SPEAKER_01: But that's a little diversion.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_01: But just his consistency is really impressive.
• 1:25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And he just has a lot of – I mean, a lot of those posts are about –
• 1:25:28
  creativity curiosity um design business uh and i just you know
• 1:25:34
  i they're they're
• 1:25:35
  they're very succinct um but he's very like clear in his his
• 1:25:40
  language and he's kind
• 1:25:42
  of like a bit of a zen master i think in you know in in that
• 1:25:45
  way so that'd be
• 1:25:46
  SPEAKER_01: another one that i add and then the other one um unless you come to
• 1:25:51
  SPEAKER_01: visit me in Nevada, California, which I hope you do someday, Brendan.
• 1:25:54
  SPEAKER_01: It would be great.
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a Lutheran church at the end of my street.
• 1:25:59
  And we are not church-going people,
• 1:26:02
  but they have a sign out in front of the church.
• 1:26:07
  And I think it's the caretaker of the grounds who is in charge
• 1:26:14
  of changing the sign.
• 1:26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he changes it every week.
• 1:26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 1:26:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's just funny as hell.
• 1:26:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:26:22
  it's just like whenever I'm out walking Tahoe or like I head
• 1:26:26
  out for a run,
• 1:26:27
  SPEAKER_01: I go,
• 1:26:27
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 1:26:27
  SPEAKER_01: my God,
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder what's there this week.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And like my wife and I just look forward to it every week.
• 1:26:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, last week, some of them were super short.
• 1:26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Last week was like, there's no we in chocolate.
• 1:26:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he's got a lot of like, he's got a lot of puns.
• 1:26:43
  SPEAKER_01: He's got a lot of puns in there,
• 1:26:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:26:46
  SPEAKER_01: about the,
• 1:26:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:26:48
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:26:48
  SPEAKER_01: about all sorts of things like,
• 1:26:50
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:26:50
  SPEAKER_01: weather related things.
• 1:26:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to,
• 1:26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm butchering it because I don't remember them off the top of my head,
• 1:26:54
  SPEAKER_01: but they're so good.
• 1:26:56
  And I just imagined him like,
• 1:26:58
  I've actually seen him out there like putting the letters in.
• 1:27:00
  Like it's one of those like big old school signs where you put
• 1:27:03
  each individual letter.
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and, uh, I've seen him out there.
• 1:27:07
  SPEAKER_01: He's an, he's an old older gentleman.
• 1:27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just like, I just, uh,
• 1:27:14
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen him like doing it,
• 1:27:16
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm just like,
• 1:27:16
  SPEAKER_01: he must be just like laughing to himself as he's putting this up there.
• 1:27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, this is pretty good.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like,
• 1:27:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:27:23
  SPEAKER_01: he does it because I think he does it because,
• 1:27:26
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:27:26
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of people see it.
• 1:27:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's on a somewhat busy corner.
• 1:27:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of pedestrians who go by.
• 1:27:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of cars that drive by there.
• 1:27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, they're...
• 1:27:37
  if they don't put a smile on your face,
• 1:27:38
  like you're some kind of savage,
• 1:27:39
  I think.
• 1:27:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he knows that.
• 1:27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 1:27:42
  SPEAKER_01: and he's just like,
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_01: you know what,
• 1:27:44
  SPEAKER_01: someone can come by this and they could be having just the shittiest day.
• 1:27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully this like makes them laugh.
• 1:27:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I just, I just appreciate that so much.
• 1:27:55
  SPEAKER_01: But again,
• 1:27:56
  SPEAKER_01: unless you come to Nevada,
• 1:27:57
  SPEAKER_01: California,
• 1:27:57
  SPEAKER_01: you're never going to,
• 1:27:58
  SPEAKER_01: never going to see that.
• 1:27:59
  SPEAKER_01: But that's another, just like, you know, creative inspiration for me.
• 1:28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Just, it's like, all right, this guy's,
• 1:28:05
  SPEAKER_01: putting this out there every week just to put a smile on people's face.
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_01: I try to keep that in mind with,
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_01: certainly the newsletter,
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_01: but anything else that I try to put out into the world,
• 1:28:15
  SPEAKER_01: it's like,
• 1:28:16
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 1:28:16
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:28:16
  SPEAKER_01: maybe it's not always going to put a smile on people's face,
• 1:28:18
  SPEAKER_01: but maybe it gets them to think about something.
• 1:28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it gets them to learn something about themselves.
• 1:28:24
  Maybe it just opens their eyes to something that they couldn't
• 1:28:26
  see before,
• 1:28:27
  SPEAKER_01: whatever,
• 1:28:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:28:27
  SPEAKER_01: whatever it happens to be.
• 1:28:28
  SPEAKER_01: But just like that reminder that, oh,
• 1:28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, people are paying attention to this shit.
• 1:28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like,
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_01: even if they don't,
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_01: email you back to say,
• 1:28:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_01: this week's newsletter really resonated with me,
• 1:28:40
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:28:40
  SPEAKER_01: it's definitely doing that with some people.
• 1:28:42
  And you and I have,
• 1:28:43
  you know,
• 1:28:44
  corresponded about this over,
• 1:28:46
  you know,
• 1:28:46
  over email.
• 1:28:47
  SPEAKER_01: But...
• 1:28:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:28:48
  SPEAKER_01: when I see those that sign in front of the church,
• 1:28:50
  SPEAKER_01: like it makes me smile,
• 1:28:51
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:28:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:28:52
  SPEAKER_01: every time and I've and I thought it's because I'm like,
• 1:28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I've never actually gone to the guy I've been like,
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_01: thanks for doing that.
• 1:28:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's like put a big smile on my face.
• 1:29:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I told I actually told myself like,
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_01: when I saw like this week's is there's no we in chocolate.
• 1:29:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like,
• 1:29:05
  SPEAKER_01: if when I see him out there again,
• 1:29:07
  SPEAKER_01: like changing the sign and be like,
• 1:29:08
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 1:29:09
  SPEAKER_01: thanks,
• 1:29:09
  SPEAKER_01: man.
• 1:29:10
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 1:29:11
  SPEAKER_01: It always puts a smile on my face.
• 1:29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 1:29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like all of us, I need that, right?
• 1:29:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just a good reminder that the work I do put out into the world is
• 1:29:21
  SPEAKER_01: impactful,
• 1:29:22
  SPEAKER_01: even though I have a lot of days where I'm like,
• 1:29:24
  SPEAKER_01: who the hell's reading this?
• 1:29:26
  SPEAKER_01: No one's reading this.
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_01: No one cares.
• 1:29:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just going to stop.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then someone will be nice enough to just respond and be like, hey,
• 1:29:37
  you know enjoy the newsletter thanks for thanks for doing it
• 1:29:39
  it's a bright spot in
• 1:29:40
  my week i'm like oh all right i'm gonna keep doing it you've
• 1:29:43
  pulled me out of the
• 1:29:43
  depths yeah what's funny about the sign making guy is like it's
• 1:29:47
  not it's definitely
• 1:29:48
  not about him at all right like he's no putting the dad jokes
• 1:29:52
  out there and like
• 1:29:53
  yeah maybe people know who it is if they see him out there
• 1:29:55
  maybe people go to the
• 1:29:56
  church know who it is but like most people don't what would be
• 1:30:00
  wrong with having
• 1:30:01
  SPEAKER_00: him on your podcast
• 1:30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing at all.
• 1:30:04
  I would just need to – like back to my – someone has put out
• 1:30:11
  like – I forget what
• 1:30:12
  SPEAKER_01: the last number was.
• 1:30:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like 215 podcasts or something like that.
• 1:30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Scheduling those gives me so much anxiety.
• 1:30:20
  like just back to my like my uh my days telemarketing at the
• 1:30:25
  the newspaper i'm glad
• 1:30:26
  i told that story now it's like i got a cold call people and be
• 1:30:28
  like you know hey
• 1:30:29
  you want to renew the newspaper hey you want to get the wish to
• 1:30:31
  tell me it's like
• 1:30:32
  hey you want to be on my podcast i hate doing that i i'm like
• 1:30:35
  i'm just like the i'm
• 1:30:36
  very shy uh but i have to i mean you know i've put out 215
• 1:30:41
  episodes i have to get
• 1:30:41
  over it but it gives me a tremendous amount of anxiety every
• 1:30:44
  time and if there's a
• 1:30:45
  limiter and asking the sign guy to come on the podcast it's
• 1:30:48
  just going up to him
• 1:30:49
  and being like hey you don't know me um you don't know what i
• 1:30:53
  do but i have this
• 1:30:54
  podcast and i see your sign every week and i really would just
• 1:30:57
  like to talk to you
• 1:30:57
  about it like even just talking through it with you now i'm
• 1:31:00
  like oh that gives me a
• 1:31:01
  lot of anxiety i don't know if i could do it will you come to
• 1:31:03
  my house could you
• 1:31:05
  SPEAKER_01: come to my house like i don't know um
• 1:31:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you might as well just talk to him and see where it goes.
• 1:31:11
  You know,
• 1:31:11
  it could go nowhere,
• 1:31:12
  but at least you could express your gratitude for his art.
• 1:31:15
  SPEAKER_01: At minimum, I'm going to do that.
• 1:31:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if he'll ever be on my podcast,
• 1:31:19
  SPEAKER_01: but at minimum,
• 1:31:20
  SPEAKER_01: I am going to just come up with the courage to be like,
• 1:31:22
  SPEAKER_01: thanks,
• 1:31:23
  SPEAKER_01: man.
• 1:31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, put a smile on my face.
• 1:31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Keep it up.
• 1:31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 1:31:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's such a giving thing to just do that,
• 1:31:30
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:31:32
  SPEAKER_00: and just like put it out there with no,
• 1:31:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:31:35
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 1:31:36
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 1:31:36
  SPEAKER_00: he doesn't care if anybody steals his joke.
• 1:31:37
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't care if like...
• 1:31:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know, it's probably photographed.
• 1:31:41
  There's probably an Instagram account for it where it's just
• 1:31:43
  photos of the sign,
• 1:31:45
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:31:45
  SPEAKER_00: or something like that.
• 1:31:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know.
• 1:31:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's, that's refreshing.
• 1:31:48
  I think these days,
• 1:31:50
  maybe it takes somebody who's a senior to be doing that too.
• 1:31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 1:31:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:31:55
  SPEAKER_00: not,
• 1:31:55
  SPEAKER_00: not care about notoriety or being,
• 1:31:57
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:31:57
  SPEAKER_00: getting any sort of money for it or anything.
• 1:31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he wants to be seen.
• 1:32:01
  I mean,
• 1:32:02
  you know,
• 1:32:02
  I,
• 1:32:03
  I don't know when he,
• 1:32:03
  I've seen him,
• 1:32:04
  you know,
• 1:32:05
  changing it a few times.
• 1:32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if he has like a certain time of the week when he does it.
• 1:32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 1:32:09
  But he's definitely not trying to draw attention to himself
• 1:32:12
  when he does it.
• 1:32:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see him,
• 1:32:15
  SPEAKER_01: at least from what I can tell when I go by,
• 1:32:17
  SPEAKER_01: it's not like he's sitting there at the window of the church being like,
• 1:32:20
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 1:32:20
  SPEAKER_01: is someone looking at my sign or pointing at it or taking photos?
• 1:32:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm fairly certain he's not doing any of those things.
• 1:32:26
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is that your two bonus items?
• 1:32:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 1:32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Those are my two bonus ones.
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm done.
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, man.
• 1:32:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is great.
• 1:32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for doing this.
• 1:32:34
  I feel like we have come up from your childhood to present day
• 1:32:39
  really well with this list.
• 1:32:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is fantastic.
• 1:32:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is super fun.
• 1:32:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was cathartic in a way.
• 1:32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for the opportunity.
• 1:32:45
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.