Latest / Dam Parenting / Finding Your People Abroad: How Expat Kids Eindhoven Is Fighting Expat Loneliness One Hangout at a Time

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Finding Your People Abroad: How Expat Kids Eindhoven Is Fighting Expat Loneliness One Hangout at a Time · Dam Parenting

• 0:02
  Hey, and welcome back to Dan Parenting, the one and only
• 0:05
  English speaking parenting podcast from the Netherlands.
• 0:07
  We're taking a brief break from according to Recharge, but fear
• 0:10
  not, exciting things are in store for August.
• 0:13
  We'll be returning with the line up of fantastic episodes that we
• 0:16
  can't wait to share with you. But don't worry, we won't leave
• 0:18
  you without something to listen to.
• 0:20
  We've carefully selected some of our most loved episodes inspired
• 0:23
  by your listens, heartwarming messages on Instagram and
• 0:25
  e-mail, and those wonderful conversations we've had when
• 0:28
  we've bumped into you around the city.
• 0:30
  Today's episode on Don Chats, we're diving into the always
• 0:33
  important topic of bedtime with our little and not so little
• 0:36
  ones. Joining us on this episode was
• 0:38
  the delightful Zanya from Adapting to Love.
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  We'll take you behind the closed bedroom doors of our own
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  families, sharing supportive and encouraging stories about how
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  each of us manages bedtime in our own unique way.
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  We hope this episode not only brings a smile to your face, but
• 0:52
  also fills your heart with warmth and support.
• 0:54
  Enjoy. Welcome back to another episode
• 0:58
  of Damn Parenting, your English speaking parenting podcast from
• 1:01
  Amsterdam, the Netherlands. And as always be your your host
• 1:03
  Eva and Marin. Today we have a damp chat
• 1:07
  session and we have the wonderful Zanya from Adapting to
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  Love. Hi, Zanya.
• 1:12
  Hello. How are you?
• 1:14
  I'm good, thanks for having me. Well, thank you for joining us.
• 1:17
  The reason we wanted you to get on here was because you put out
• 1:21
  a story a while ago. I think I just messaged you as
• 1:23
  quickly as possible when I saw it and I was like, girl, can you
• 1:26
  come on? Damn chat.
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  That's because I really want to talk about that post you just
• 1:28
  done because it resonated so much with me.
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  And I felt like especially because it was on social media,
• 1:34
  it was an insight into someone's life.
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  But normally the insights we get are, oh, this is perfect.
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  But you were sharing something quite intimate and quite
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  unexpected maybe for so many people.
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  And so I really wanted to kind of just touch on that and for us
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  to kind of have this honest conversation to just to say,
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  hey, look, this is the real life, this is behind the camera,
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  this is off camera. This is how we actually do it.
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  And that post was a post you had showing how you were putting
• 1:58
  your kids to sleep. Would you like to elaborate?
• 2:00
  Yeah, so sometimes I see from accounts I do admire with this
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  type of honest. I had written along with a video
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  from someone else showing that instead of struggling to get the
• 2:13
  baby or your toddler or your child to sleep at night by
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  saying go to bed, go to bed, get your pyjamas on.
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  And that that creates often a conflict because there is going
• 2:26
  to be a separation. I was showing that we as the
• 2:30
  video was kind of encouraging that we also lay with our
• 2:34
  children until they're asleep every night.
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  And we've been doing that for over 7 years.
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  So it started with my youngest and we would alternate my
• 2:43
  husband and I doing bedtime with him.
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  But now that we have two kids, we alternate with the kids,
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  which means that both of us lay with our kids until they're
• 2:52
  asleep every night. I don't find it remarkable
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  personally, but when I share things like this I inevitably
• 2:59
  get quite a few responses and a lot of them are like oh we do
• 3:04
  this too. It's so nice with like an emoji
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  shit. Wow.
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  Yeah, really. Like, they're like confessing to
• 3:12
  me that they love to have kids until they're asleep.
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  But like, don't tell anyone because then you're going to
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  hear like these comments of like, oh, but it'll take so long
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  or oh, but is your kid going to be able to go to sleep on their
• 3:25
  own? Can you ever go out?
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  You know, it's just, I think as parents, it trickles very
• 3:30
  quickly are our thoughts to like, it escalates to like, oh,
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  but next year and then the next year and then the next year and
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  when is it going to change? And I think we forget that when
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  we have a bad habit or a good habit, it doesn't mean it's
• 3:47
  forever because our children are growing.
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  And we can also always change our boundaries at any point when
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  we need to. So for us, it works really well.
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  We like it. And we like that our kids are
• 3:58
  not fighting with us to get into bed.
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  They look forward to it. I mean, it's still like, Oh my
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  God, can you put your pajamas on sometimes because they're just
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  distracted, But it's not them having usually like tantrums or
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  really trying to get out of the bedroom.
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  And then we get in bed and we read stories together.
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  We turn the lights off and we talk a little or sing.
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  My oldest always just goes off on these random philosophical
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  questions that I guess have been building up throughout the day.
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  We always have to be after like 10 minutes of that be like,
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  okay, that's you got to stop. He's like, but I have so many
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  more questions. I'm like, Yep, yeah, you're
• 4:37
  gonna have to save them for breakfast.
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  And he's like, I never remember them for breakfast.
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  And I'm like, sorry, good. At some point you got to stop.
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  But then I usually we usually fall asleep before they do and
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  we just like conk out and then usually like kind of wake up 10
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  minutes later and they're asleep and we climb out of bed and
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  that's it. That's our routine.
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  And it, I guess I want to add that it it's not a problem if
• 4:59
  I'm out of the house, a tish can put them both to sleep.
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  And that often means that our oldest, who is 7, just kind of
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  they read all together and then R.E.M. will just put himself to
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  sleep. If we have a babysitter or
• 5:10
  grandparents, that's fine. They just put themselves to
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  sleep with a little bit like maybe they babysitter like sits
• 5:17
  with them for a minute and tucks them in, but then they're fine
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  with them leaving. Yeah, it's it's not something
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  they're dependent on because they've grown.
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  It's just a habit that we enjoy. See.
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  To me, that's nice. Just like, yeah, time of her
• 5:29
  connection, right? So you can have that anytime.
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  Some people have that dinner time, some people have that
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  whenever, when they ride to school, whatever.
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  And you chose that time for connections.
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  Yeah, we try to make other times for connection, like dinner, but
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  it doesn't always. Yeah, our kids don't love to
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  eat. And I've, I've, it's often like
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  eat your food, eat your food. We play games and stuff at
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  dinner time to try to keep it light.
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  But yeah, that's it is it's a time that is really nice for
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  that. And it doesn't always take that
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  long either. The responses I got were
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  sometimes, yeah, people saying, oh, we do this too.
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  And then I also got a few people saying people that I know
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  sometimes struggle with their children waking up at night or
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  needing other types of support. I had a few people saying like,
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  maybe I should do that with my kids too, but dot, dot, dot.
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  So it kind of felt sometimes like they're asking permission
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  to like, is this something that I should be making time for?
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  Or like, maybe they need someone to tell them that they should
• 6:30
  really be doing that, which is not my, my, my job.
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  But yeah, it is interesting to see how we hold ourselves back
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  from make that space, especially around bedtime.
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  I think people are so afraid to not have independent sleepers.
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  That's true. And especially when you've gone
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  out of the baby era into the, their hood and you know, you've
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  already been through a few years of never knowing if they're
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  going to sleep through six hour patches or whatever it might be.
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  One of the things you're actually just saying there is
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  like, people might be asking permission.
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  For me personally, it was a case of what does my daughter need?
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  And then I was just thinking, well, I think this is what I,
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  she needs. And so I was listening to it and
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  I always just see on social media those people are like, oh,
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  you know, look at my child and they're off putting their own
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  PJS on and brushing their own teeth and they're happy to get
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  into their own bed. And I'm like, well, my, my
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  daughter's not like that. And for me, it's just another
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  element of if they're having a tantrum or if they're having
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  their, whatever it could be, it's an emotional period.
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  And it's just that thing that it's a case of, well, what is it
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  that they need right now? And all I know is if you walked
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  me into a bedroom, read a story and said, okay, goodnight and
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  walked off, I'll be kind of left I guess a little bit wondering
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  like, OK, well this isn't great. And so it's just a secret
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  comfort, I guess that you know, we can give them.
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  And one thing I did see somewhere was there's six very
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  important minutes in child's day.
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  The 1st 2 minutes of connection, first start, the start of the
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  day, 2 minutes after school, and the last two minutes, you know,
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  bedtime kind of thing. And I guess our two minutes ends
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  up being an hour or however long it may be in that moment.
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  But it's, it's, it's also one of those things I believe in.
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  You never know when your last time will be and it's never
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  going to be forever. And so I just really like,
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  that's why I really wanted to get you on the episode, having
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  seen that story, because I was like, yes, preach, you know, say
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  it, like show it and, you know, show the other side.
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  And as you say, you do have a life and you do go out and you
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  do go away and you do, you know, you can do this because your
• 8:19
  children know, because they have that security already that
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  they're, they know we get this 95% of the time.
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  But you know, it's also important for mommy and daddy to
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  also have a relationship. And there's another way that
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  we'll be put to bed as well. And so it's it's just really
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  nice. Yeah, and I mean, I agree with
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  you about the security part. I think that regardless of the
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  relationship people have with their kids, often kids just
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  understand different caregivers. And I think that's something
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  that I, I see missing a lot in my work as a postpartum educator
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  and working with families with, as a baby wearing consultant,
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  people are like, oh, but if I wear them too much, then I can't
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  send them to daycare. And if I don't sleep train, they
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  can't go to daycare. And if I'm breastfeeding, they
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  can't go to daycare. And if I lay with them to sleep,
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  then we can't use a babysitter. And if this and if this.
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  And we just have to remember that like our children are far
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  more complete creatures or people than this.
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  And they are able to from very young differentiate between
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  different caregivers. And this also translates to
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  different parents, right, between moms and dads.
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  And there's so many times that moms will often protect how they
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  do something and they want the dad to do it the exact same way.
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  But actually, it's totally fine for another parent to do bedtime
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  in a completely different way. Children really adapt and they
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  can feel safe and cared for in different ways with different
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  caregivers. And that's why, like what your
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  boundaries are can be different from someone else's.
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  And laying with my kids until they're asleep doesn't keep us
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  from letting them fall asleep in other ways and other places and
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  with other people. I do like it too because when we
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  travel I think that helps too with how they adjust to
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  different environments that like there's always that continuity
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  of of us being in bed with them until they're asleep.
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  And I mean honestly my 4 year old, he just turned 4, he still
• 10:08
  gets in bed with us every night at 2:00 AM or such.
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  But it's changing. Like it's shifting.
• 10:14
  I can feel like some mornings he's not coming in bed till
• 10:16
  6:30. Some mornings he sleeps in his
• 10:19
  bed the whole like we wake up and he never made it into our
• 10:22
  bed now. So that's shifting.
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  But yeah, R.E.M. is 7 and and we still do it.
• 10:27
  And I do feel like the end of days coming.
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  You know, there's times where I'm laying there and he's like,
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  oh, can you scoot over? Like stop doing that with the
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  blanket? And I'm like, do you want me to
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  stay or do you want me to go? And he's like, I don't know.
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  And I'm like, oh, no. So it I think in some ways it's
• 10:45
  coming. But also, I just had a walk with
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  my friend Isabel, who I believe you 2 know this morning,
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  mentioned our talk today and she was like, tell them that Paloma
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  and I still cuddle every night and I lay with her until she's
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  asleep and she's 10. And that's like a really, really
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  important part of their relationship and their day.
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  And they both do it because they love it.
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  And, and that's the other thing is like, right, Like parents
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  shouldn't do it necessarily out of a sense of obligation, but
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  maybe be open to like, if you're going to do this, like you said,
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  you, you recognize the need in your child, you did it for them,
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  but maybe then also you realize that you, you like it like that
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  it gives you back something too, right?
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  Those cuddles and that chill. Like for me, it's one of the
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  only times in the day that I'm not like trying to accomplish 10
• 11:34
  things in my mind or in tasks and on my phone and stuff.
• 11:38
  So I think that's which probably why I often fall asleep.
• 11:43
  It's that time where they're not moving and you can actually
• 11:46
  admire them. Yeah, yeah, I, I also totally
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  agree with what you said about that.
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  They adapt to their environment so much.
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  And we, I see exactly the same thing.
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  My daughter knows who she's with and what the rules and
• 12:03
  boundaries are. There is certain rules and
• 12:05
  boundaries that are applicable with everyone because that's the
• 12:08
  baseline that we roll with. But then she is she very much
• 12:12
  understands what she gets from what person and what the
• 12:15
  relationship looks like. So yeah, I totally agree with
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  that. And also I think the more well,
• 12:21
  you can also be flexible with this whole topic as like you
• 12:24
  really like lay there and wait and like all that.
• 12:28
  And that's this is one, one way how this can look like.
• 12:31
  It can also look like I'm sitting with you, but I'm
• 12:33
  reading my book or I'm listening to a podcast.
• 12:35
  I'm here, but I can also do something else.
• 12:38
  So this is also what I want to say that a lot of times people
• 12:40
  think I lie with my child equals we're all in a dark room.
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  I have to lie, I cannot move. I can this is the only way it
• 12:47
  can happen and I cannot picture that.
• 12:49
  But being with your child and like helping him fall asleep can
• 12:53
  have many different ways how that looks.
• 12:55
  And I think that is also important for people to
• 12:58
  understand. It's not lying there in a dark
• 13:00
  room and I can't move any other extreme is I shut the door and
• 13:02
  say goodbye, see you. So that's also.
• 13:04
  And that's, that's a great point because like we have it pretty
• 13:08
  good in the sense that both of our kids fall asleep within 20
• 13:11
  minutes, sometimes within 10 minutes, minutes.
• 13:13
  So that's, that's not forever, but there are kids that take
• 13:17
  like an hour tossing and turning to unwind.
• 13:20
  And I can understand why you would not want to lay there for
• 13:24
  an hour. And maybe you develop a routine
• 13:27
  of like, I'm going to lay with you for 20 minutes and then I'm
• 13:29
  going to be outside doing my work.
• 13:31
  And if you need me, come get me. Or maybe you say I'm going to
• 13:34
  sit next to the bed and do some work while you're falling asleep
• 13:38
  or I'm going to read a book or something to try to make that
• 13:41
  time more useful for you because we're all busy.
• 13:43
  And I get that. There was actually, I do like
• 13:46
  this weekly anonymous questions and I get really random, like
• 13:50
  different, different topic questions.
• 13:52
  And I had a very sweet one from a father who said my babe, I
• 13:57
  think the child was, I want to say like nine months or so, had
• 14:01
  to hold his finger for her to fall asleep, but that he
• 14:04
  couldn't remove his finger until she was passed a certain point
• 14:08
  of like depth in her sleep and that it often took over 20
• 14:12
  minutes. And he was saying, how can I
• 14:13
  change this? And I think his question was,
• 14:15
  how can I change this habit for her?
• 14:18
  And that's why I initially started answering.
• 14:20
  And I was like, you could try to use a lovey.
• 14:21
  You could hold her hand so you canmore easily remove it rather
• 14:25
  than her holding your hand. And then I are suddenly reframed
• 14:28
  it in my head. And I was like, but wait a
• 14:30
  minute. Like this is super adorable.
• 14:32
  And it's only 20 minutes. And also, one thing I think we
• 14:35
  forget as parents when we feel inconvenient against over and
• 14:39
  over and over again is to use our adult mind.
• 14:43
  And instead of saying, why do they do this every time, we can
• 14:47
  take a step into the future and say this is going to happen.
• 14:51
  Like, I know that this is gonna happen because this is a
• 14:54
  predictable behavior. No.
• 14:56
  Can I better regulate or make use of this?
• 15:01
  Like if this is going to happen, then I'm going to take away the
• 15:04
  stimulus that would cause it to happen or I'm going to, in this
• 15:08
  case, it's not a stimulus and it's not a bad behavior.
• 15:11
  I'm going to make use of the time.
• 15:12
  And so I suggested maybe you can queue up some emails or material
• 15:16
  for work that you need to read throughout the day and save it
• 15:19
  because you know you're going to have those 20 minutes and you
• 15:22
  can scroll on your phone or maybe there's a podcast you try
• 15:25
  to listen to every day and you can save it for those 20
• 15:28
  minutes. So I don't, it was an anonymous
• 15:31
  question. So I don't know how that ended
• 15:32
  up working out, but I'd like to know.
• 15:34
  I'm curious. Well, for me, I can definitely
• 15:37
  admit that I think I was the only one who put my daughter to
• 15:39
  bed until she was nearly 2 1/2. That was my thing every single
• 15:42
  night. And we only changed it because I
• 15:45
  was kind of getting like, well, what's happening here?
• 15:47
  But the honest, the honest thing was like, there was sometimes I
• 15:50
  was holding her hand for an hour and it was also a case of not
• 15:53
  just holding hands, but then she would turn, put my hand
• 15:55
  underneath her and it was a real, like, I'm never getting
• 15:58
  free in my head. It was also a case of I was
• 16:01
  totally inconvenient. My arm was like twisted over and
• 16:03
  around the bed. And it was just like absolutely
• 16:06
  painstaking. But it was just that thing of if
• 16:09
  this is what you need to get you to sleep because I, I am really
• 16:11
  bad at getting sleep as an adult.
• 16:13
  I am really bad at getting to sleep as an adult.
• 16:15
  But the fact that this one thing comforts her and she goes to
• 16:18
  sleep and it works every night and the fact we built up this
• 16:21
  whole routine for now all these years, I know she needs this and
• 16:24
  I know she's asleep and that's it.
• 16:25
  And it's done. And it's not going to be
• 16:27
  forever. Yeah, as you preach.
• 16:28
  And The thing is, I I like it too.
• 16:30
  And I know what's happening and it is part of my routine.
• 16:32
  And this is, this is how it is. And it's not a bad thing.
• 16:36
  It's it's not. No, I there doesn't have to be
• 16:38
  any bad part of it. Unless if we choose to hate it,
• 16:42
  I guess. I hope no one hates putting
• 16:44
  their kids to bed to be honest. Like that's, that's kind of.
• 16:47
  Heartbreaking. Yeah.
• 16:49
  I don't I don't think it's that perhaps I think it's just that
• 16:51
  we we judge ourselves for it. We view it as a a weakness of
• 16:56
  like, oh, I'm such a sucker or oh, my child needs this
• 16:59
  independent skill. And if we can just reframe that
• 17:02
  for ourselves, then yeah, we can accept it and enjoy it and.
• 17:06
  We're the worst thing. Kids are manipulators.
• 17:08
  Yeah. That's a hard one.
• 17:11
  Yeah, they they don't. Even know where their own Gnos
• 17:13
  is. No, they, they just want us.
• 17:18
  I think that's like fundamentally clear to me seven
• 17:22
  years in is how much they just need to connect with us often.
• 17:27
  Which is humankind, right? Yeah, it is.
• 17:30
  That's just down to basic biology of the world.
• 17:32
  OK, well, we're not curing anything, but we are so thankful
• 17:35
  that you joined us. And we really hope that people
• 17:37
  listening in are not going to feel like they're being
• 17:40
  manipulated or, oh, God, I have to do this.
• 17:43
  But the fact that they might reframe it as you suggest, and
• 17:45
  they might kind of say this is part of my routine, you know,
• 17:48
  this is part of bedtime. And we're all being honest.
• 17:50
  And we're all saying this is kind of what we do.
• 17:52
  You lie in bed. I can't fit into my daughter's
• 17:54
  bed. Thankfully, we haven't reached
• 17:56
  that one. But we all do different things.
• 17:58
  And hopefully the person who admitted to you and then said,
• 18:01
  you know, the emoji, hopefully they're not going to be silent.
• 18:05
  And that they might also admit that, hey, yeah, I do this.
• 18:07
  And I do look forward to having a big enough bed that I can't
• 18:10
  climb into my daughter's bed. So hopefully I'll start annoying
• 18:12
  her instead of her coming into my bed every other night.
• 18:15
  So. And a floor bed is great for
• 18:17
  that too. True.
• 18:19
  Yeah. Because then I won't be pushed
• 18:20
  off the bed and landing on my own.
• 18:22
  Yeah. Anyway, thank you so much for
• 18:24
  joining us. And hopefully, yeah, we'll get a
• 18:27
  few responses to see how many people are going to be honest
• 18:30
  about holding their hands, climbing into bed, sitting down.
• 18:34
  And even like, the great tips that you said about like, just
• 18:36
  filing up those emails or the podcast, as Mara was saying, or
• 18:39
  whatever it might be, that there's all these different kind
• 18:41
  of other options that if you feel like, well, they're not
• 18:44
  doing anything and I could kind of, you know, catch up with
• 18:47
  something, you know, don't feel guilty about it.
• 18:50
  Totally. And also what you said about the
• 18:52
  predictability like except the fact.
• 18:54
  So let's change the the modalities that we can change if
• 18:58
  we can change the fact that this is going to happen totally
• 19:01
  flexible. Well, with that, we're going to
• 19:03
  round it up. And that's a damn chat that
• 19:07
  comes out every Monday. Every Wednesday, we have an
• 19:09
  expert episode coming out on this podcast.
• 19:12
  You can catch us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, YouTube, or
• 19:16
  wherever you get your podcasts from.
• 19:18
  And we're excited to hear you on the next episode, either
• 19:21
  Wednesdays with the experts or Mondays for a chat.
• 19:25
  Till next time, bye.