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Charles McCann - CCAP Emeritus · Look Who's Talking

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You are listening to Look Who's Talking.
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I am Cameron Minter.
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I am your co-host and our wonderful Head Start director, Jessica Coffie's in the house.
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Hey y'all, how you doing?
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What it do, what it do?
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You know, Cam, it's been a rainy week.
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Yeah, come on.
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So guess how I started my week.
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Sunday I went to go, I went to the movies to go see Twisters.
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Oh, really?
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It has rained every day.
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Ever since you've seen that.
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So I'm looking outside like, oh, I think that's the cloud that started the tornado.
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Right, right, right, right.
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So I've been taking cover.
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No, we're not doing none of that.
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We're not doing none of that.
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It was a good movie.
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You should go see it.
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Okay.
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You know, I'm not too big on going to the movies anymore since I've gotten used to doing
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it at home.
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Oh no, you need to go to Lex Live.
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Lex Live.
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I have my blanket.
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Oh no, that's where we go.
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You warm the seats up, they recline all the way back.
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I don't need no warm seats.
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No warm muffins.
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No, thank you.
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You know it's colder than the movies.
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Yeah, yeah, sometimes, yeah.
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I'm with you.
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I'm with you.
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I'm with you.
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What's been happening in your life?
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But my grass has been needing this, I call it Jesus juice.
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So we've been needing this.
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You know, you walk on the grass and you feel like you're walking on matchsticks.
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Yeah, that's where my grass has been.
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But is it safe for me some money?
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Because I know you're not cutting your grass, right?
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Absolutely not.
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You've got somebody cutting your grass.
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Oh, I pay people to do that.
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Exactly, me too.
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So when, you know, the sun is burning my grass, there's no need to have anybody come out.
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Listen, my grass looked like hay last week.
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Right, right.
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This week it's just flourishing green.
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Exactly.
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That's what happens.
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That's what happens.
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You just get a little bit of juice.
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We need that water.
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Yes, yes.
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What else has been going on with you?
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So we've been getting ready for our upcoming program here.
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Yes, it's that time.
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We've had pre-service.
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Yes.
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And now everyone's getting their classrooms together.
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And on Monday, school starts for us.
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It's a busy, busy time.
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But you know, this is, oh, hold up.
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It's my birthday on Sunday.
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Yes.
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How could I forget that?
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Oh, I don't think you did.
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That right there is a whole holiday.
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What?
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Yeah.
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You know, I celebrate my birthday for three months.
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Right, right, right.
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Up until Halloween.
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So.
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D'oh!
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Because what happens between August 4th and October 31st?
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Nothing.
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Absolutely nothing.
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Louise, Louise.
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That's, that's.
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You know, there's this whole vibe to where I'm like.
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Wow.
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It's about me.
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Oh, this show, the show turned dark.
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Okay.
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But the program year is starting, so I'm excited about that.
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However, I am not excited about traffic.
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Right.
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It's over.
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Yeah, the first day of school for, for, you know, these parents who are happy their kids
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are going to kindergarten and they drop them off is like the worst day of the year for
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me.
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Absolutely.
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It's going to be brutal.
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It's going to be brutal.
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But guess what?
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You know, my grandson is going to be, you know, participating and I get to bring them.
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So.
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Oh, yes.
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That's going to be new for me.
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Well, please know there's a drop off time.
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So if you are just one minute late.
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You won't have to drive back to wherever you live.
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I have been informed and informed and informed.
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Yes, because we need, this is school.
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We need your child on time.
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And we'll be and we'll be and we'll be.
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So with all of that confusion you just brought up.
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So let's let's have a Coffie break.
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So this Coffie break, I want to say it's about who you stand in the rain with when they also
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have a choice to be dry.
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I saved that one, Cam.
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That's a good one.
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OK.
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And on a rainy day.
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On a rainy day.
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Who you choose to stand in the rain with when they have a choice to be dry.
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You know what?
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Wow.
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That's that's good because your circle or who you surround yourself with.
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I'm about to come on.
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I'm about to preach.
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That inner circle, you know, speaking of preaching Sunday about your inner circle.
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Nathan was there for David and he was there for him even when it was rough.
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Yeah.
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He was like, you ain't doing right.
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You got to do right.
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You know what?
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I got another one.
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What?
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So the lame man who couldn't make it to.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And his friends got on the roof and tore it up.
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Tore it up and lowered it down where they needed to be.
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Right.
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And you know, I'm just all about everybody around you needs to be helping you.
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Yeah.
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If you've got people in your circle who are that close to you that can do damage to you,
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who's not building you up, who's not pushing you to do better, who's not encouraging you
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when you're down.
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Yeah.
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You need to change your inner circle.
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You know what?
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And that that right there, the whole quote just makes me think of our guest for today.
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Ooh, ooh, ooh.
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Yes.
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Who's our guest today?
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What's going on today?
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What are we talking about?
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Listen.
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On this day.
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The person here today.
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Today.
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Come on.
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He stood in the rain.
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And he's standing with us today when he could be somewhere dry on the island.
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Come on.
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Drinking a pina colada.
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That's right.
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Okay.
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We have Mr. Charles McCain with us today.
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Hey, Charles.
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Welcome to the show.
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A.K.A. Mr. Becks, you don't have a bow tie.
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I know, right?
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Right?
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Yeah.
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We are feeling quite sprite.
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You know, what?
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Oh, there's a new one.
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Sweet and spicy and swicy.
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Yeah.
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We're feeling quite swicy today in our bow ties because of our guest speaker, Mr. Charles
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McCain.
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All right.
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What's going on, Charles?
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They move six and seven.
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What do you think?
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I love it.
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I love it.
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You have inspired us.
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And for those who are listening, you can watch the show later on our YouTube channel.
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Shameless plug.
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But yeah, we're all in bow ties today in honor of our guests.
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Yeah.
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And you look great.
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Yes, sir.
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Thank you.
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I feel good.
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Thank you.
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I feel good.
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I should look so great in a bow tie.
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The inspiration.
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So my first meeting with Charles was when I was going through the CECAP process.
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Yes.
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And I think I heard that, you know, on you and Sharon's podcast, how he changed, you
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know, you all's trajectory.
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And that's how I feel about myself in the CECAP process and being able to listen to
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him because I was one of the ones, I did the homework.
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But I was like, I don't even understand why we got to do all this.
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What?
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But I, during my CECAP process, I was at a place where, you know, I was looking for
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other jobs.
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I didn't really understand, like, I just not I'm not feeling it.
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But once I went through the process, I literally it was like a 180 for me.
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And I became a different manager.
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I became a different employee.
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So one, I want to thank you for that inspiration, because now I've been with the agency is
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13 years this month.
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And I was only going to be here to.
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OK, you know, so we changed the trajectory of your life.
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Absolutely.
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It was it was a lovely process, but I didn't appreciate it until after I passed the test.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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People that passed the test think it's wonderful.
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People that don't pass the test, they're disappointed.
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Yeah.
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Nobody doesn't pass the test.
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They only haven't passed the test yet.
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That's right.
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And if they keep at it, my friend, Wayne Thomas, who had all these pithy sayings would say
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people often don't get to where they're going if they quit before they arrive.
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So the people that didn't quit before they arrived, they're the CECAPs.
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So the program that we're talking about, the certification is the Certified Community Action
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Professional.
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That's right.
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It is a rough course where you go back into all the history and all the reasons why we
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do what we do.
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Right.
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Just in case you never got that one day one.
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Right.
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So we learn a lot of information about who we are and why we do what we do.
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I want to tell a story on Jessica.
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Oh, sure.
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Now, Jessica mentioned that she did her homework and we did have homework.
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Yes, we did.
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Every candidate was assigned a source that then they had to read, prepare a written synopsis
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of, report it.
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And the way I did those reports was I would take the sign-in sheet and I would just go
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down the sign-in sheet and that's how I signed them.
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Jessica, always one of the first ones in, was high up on the sign-in sheet and sometimes
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there weren't enough people or more sources than there were people.
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So you'd have to go back up to the top.
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And I clearly remember the day that Jessica had two because we had to go back up again.
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And she asked me in class if I would please start going to these assignments from the
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bottom up instead of the top down because she was getting two instead of one.
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That's right.
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I do.
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I do.
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So do I.
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Because you know what?
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Cameron was in my class and he was one of the ones who never did the homework.
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Stop telling them lies.
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You missed homework, Cameron.
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I missed a class.
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That's missing homework.
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But nobody was ever forgiven homework.
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It was only deferred.
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That's right.
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That's right.
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Not forgiven, only deferred.
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And you know, this program really helps you work with other people because one thing that,
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you know, of course, we're taking this course on top of the work that we're doing, right?
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So you got to figure it out.
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How are you going to get it done?
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How are you going to get it done?
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Right.
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But there is this fear of public shaming because you are the way we do things.
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We let everybody know, hey, these are our CCAP candidates.
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Support them.
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Push them.
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So the whole agency knows you're going for your CCAP.
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Yeah.
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And you don't want to be the one to fail.
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And you don't want to be the one that deterred somebody else from doing what they need to
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do with that homework.
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Yeah.
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I must say, you know, that class, I would feel, I think Cameron would agree with me,
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brought us, really brought us together.
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You know, you could.
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I didn't like her for a first time.
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Yeah.
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He, it was like pulling teeth to get Cameron to do anything with Head Start at the time.
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Glasses.
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And, but it really brought us together.
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But it, it also helped, you know, our vision.
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We were starting to be more innovative and like, oh, we can do this.
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You know, when I started the process, I think that I was the health and nutrition manager.
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You were.
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But now I'm the Head Start director.
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Come on.
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And I heard you were a Head Start director.
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I was a Head Start director in 1967.
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Wow.
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Wow.
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I was a 23 year old Head Start director.
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And just a year too younger than you, I suppose, right now.
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Just a couple.
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That's right.
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And there were a lot of Head Start directors then in their lower and mid 20s.
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That was, that was not that uncommon.
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So tell me about your experience as a Head Start director then and, you know, how it's
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different now.
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Well, it's different now for sure.
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When I was a Head Start director, it was administered by the Office of Economic Opportunity.
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Then one of the things that in the first Nixon administration, his first director of OEO
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was Donald Rumsfeld, the Donald Rumsfeld.
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And Rumsfeld idea was that OEO would be the incubator of programs and then the successful
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programs would be spun off to other agencies.
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So we were still in OEO.
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And in 1969 Head Start was spun off to, then it was HEW, HHS now.
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And all the program, I guess you could say it has matured, but one way would be if you
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think about, think about the Head Start application now.
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How thick is it in terms of pages?
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Oh, it's about 67 to possibly 80 pages.
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Okay.
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Then the Head Start application was on a legal size sheet of paper folded in the middle.
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So you had page one, which is basically a cover page, page two, page three, and then
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page four, which just said Community Action Program Head Start.
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So that's how it started.
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And when I was the Head Start director, the manual was only about that thick.
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It wasn't thick at all.
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And back in the day, things were different.
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And I look back in those days and I'm very, very thankful that we really didn't get into trouble.
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One of the things that in 1967, Head Start was already established in my hometown of St.
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Joseph, Missouri.
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But in 1967, OEO had an administrative directive that all these, there were 3,500, 4,000 cap
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agencies in the country.
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They were usually single county.
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They were usually formed because a school superintendent in that county had done what
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needed to be done to get Head Start in the summer of 1965 and build an agency around it.
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And you had all these little agencies.
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And OEO said that you've got to consolidate to where every Community Action Agency serves no
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less than I think it was 100,000 people, some number of people.
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So we acquired three adjacent counties.
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And the Economic Opportunity Corporation of St. Joseph became the Economic Opportunity
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Corporation of Greater St. Joseph.
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Now, I'm the Head Start Director and I'm a rookie.
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And a rookie Head Start Director, absolutely what you don't want to do is make any mistakes that
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would jeopardize the program.
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So you just try to keep things smooth, not rock the boat, you know, just kind of while you're
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trying to get, you know, get your confidence.
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And my first real task then was to establish Head Start centers in these counties.
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I don't know what to do.
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So we had a county office in every county.
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And I worked with a person in that county office to convene a meeting of people who would be
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interested in Head Start.
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And I remember these meetings, you had people of all sorts of backgrounds, but there were a
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lot of ministers.
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I remember the ministers were there a lot and others.
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So you asked questions and, well, are there enough children to have a Head Start center in
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this county?
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They say, oh, yeah, we got 20 children easy, but they're scattered all over the county.
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Well, we didn't have any buses like these days.
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We have anything.
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So we had a person in our agency.
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We because of our relationship with OEO at the time, we had access to surplus property,
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government surplus property.
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We had a person whose job it was to go around the military bases in our reasonable general area
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and get surplus property.
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So we had this person find surplus buses and they came in with three counties.
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We had three surplus derelict Air Force buses and they were derelict buses.
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One of the buses we had to have jerry cans of water on the bus because the bus couldn't make the
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route without filling up the radiator.
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Well, we didn't have much money.
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Who's going to drive the bus?
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Well, I mean, no safety checks, no background checks.
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I mean, a certain church would say, well, I'll drive it on Tuesday and Thursday.
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If you my colleague over there from another church could do Monday and Wednesday and then we'll find
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somebody else maybe do it on Friday.
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And I look back on that.
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Excuse me.
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I look back on that.
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Man, oh, man, I'm glad nothing happened.
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No doubt.
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You know, you wouldn't be able to do that.
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You can't do that today.
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But but but this and others, it was necessary to launch the program.
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Yeah.
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Now, another thing we did is where are we going to have the center building?
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So if a minister raises his hand and say, you can have it in the basement of our church free music
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here, free so we were not concerned with how thick the wood chips were under the swing set.
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We had a place and it was free.
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That was it.
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That was it.
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We had to have it.
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That's what we had to have.
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That's what you got to do to get through the program and get it going.
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Charles, we're going to take a quick commercial break.
19:21
We're going to talk more about your experience as a head start director.
19:26
You are listening to Look Who's Talking.
19:42
This past year has highlighted the strength of Community Action Council.
19:46
Every day our staff works together to help families recover from this crisis.
19:51
We're educating children at home and in person, helping parents who lost their jobs,
19:55
and helping households avoid eviction.
19:58
Our work at Community Action Council has never been more important than it is right now.
20:02
So why not join us?
20:04
We have employment opportunities requiring a range of skills from entry level to advanced.
20:09
Apply online at commaction.org.
20:13
Community Action Council's Head Start programs are now enrolling for the 24-25 school year in 15 counties.
20:19
Including Lexington, Head Start offers high quality early childhood education for qualifying families with children
20:25
between the ages of six weeks and five years old.
20:28
Spaces are limited and filling up quickly.
20:30
So to help ensure your child receives the Head Start advantage this year,
20:33
start your application today by calling 859-233-4600 or go online at commaction.org.
20:42
That's commaction.org.
21:13
You are listening to Look Who's Talking.
21:17
We are talking with Charles McCann and he's given us some great experiences from the time when he was a Head Start director.
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Charles, you wanted to tell us a story. What's your story?
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Well, I wanted to kind of continue with these meetings that we were having in these counties.
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And the minister is saying you can have ours.
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We had one place where the Catholic priest said you can have this in our basement.
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Wonderful. Thank you. We got to have it.
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Well, then we got into kind of a flap with the regional office because of religious icons.
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And they didn't want anything religious there.
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So the region's idea was to say put a sheet over the statue of Mary.
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Well, you can imagine what the Catholic priest thought about that.
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So we had these kinds of issues that we had to work out.
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So we had the meetings. And one meeting we had the press.
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And I was naive, very naive. I thought this is just wonderful. Everybody's going to know Head Start's coming.
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When the paper came out, the headline said poverty comes to our county.
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And if you read the article, guess who brought it there?
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So I was summoned by a leader in the county. I kind of chuckle about that now.
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I don't do summoned. But back then, back then I was summoned and I went and the person said, Charles, you said, what's the matter with you?
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And I said, what do you mean? What's the matter with me?
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He said, what's the matter with you bringing this poverty here?
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Wow. He said, we got just the nicest little county you ever saw.
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I want you to look out this window over here.
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I want you to see we've got the great farmland and we've got people people here are happy and they like it here.
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Why you be bringing this poverty here?
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I remember telling him, I said, well, OK, I see the I see out the window what you do.
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I see the people, they look happy and I believe you about the good farmland and all.
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Now, I got a question for you. He said, what's that?
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And I said, what's that behind that shuttered window you got behind you there?
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And he said, look, he said, we don't look out that window and we don't appreciate outsiders looking out of it either.
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What?
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I remembered I remember exactly what I thought at the time, which was Kennedy was right about this being a long twilight struggle.
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Well, what do we do?
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Well, we follow the advice of our leader, Sergeant Shriver, who had managed us not to cry failure at the first sign of controversy.
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And we launched Head Start in that county anyway.
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Yeah. Fast forward now.
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Fifty years or more, Head Start now is seen as one of the jewels of the county.
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It's like the welcome wagon lady will tell you about Head Start.
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Everybody wants to volunteer at Christmas time.
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Everybody wants to be sure that the children have lots of presents.
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Very, very popular program now.
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But it wasn't always that way. That's right.
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That's right. You had to lay down some roots.
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You did. And then grow them, water them and grow them.
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That's what's up.
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So Head Start has evolved so much from, you know, the time you were a director to even now.
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What are like some of the benefits that you have seen through the Head Start program for whether it's families or communities?
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Have you experienced just a total transformation from some of the communities like the one you just talked about having Head Start around?
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Well, I think that I'm not aware of. There ought to be some studies somewhere.
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You have enough children who are in Head Start 50 years ago, somebody go back and see how they did.
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Right.
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And, you know, we hope that they did well, probably a lot of them did.
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But I think the transformation that's kind of interesting is that the children really don't have the stigma that's attached to the adults for being in poverty.
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They're just kids. And they go.
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Now, I do think that one of the things I've seen in various places is the parent groups, the parent councils.
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And then we had a parent council for every center had its own council.
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And what it was in the old days was instant community organization, and you would try to transfer the interest that group had in that center and their children
26:38
and transfer it outward to deal with other problems that they had in the community.
26:44
Right.
26:45
And I think that's a good step forward to have that, you know, looking outward and not just an outward program.
26:55
It's not just an inward program.
26:57
Yeah.
26:58
Charles, we are currently getting started on a new Head Start school year.
27:03
Right.
27:04
Do you have any words of wisdom for Head Start directors or center, what do they call, center?
27:12
Site directors.
27:13
Site directors and our teachers at the beginning of this new school year?
27:18
Well, I think that you go into it with your eyes wide open that this isn't easy work.
27:27
And probably the children that you're going to see, if you have training in education, I mean, university or college training,
27:37
probably it may not prepare you for the children that you're going to see.
27:44
Right.
27:45
Children with particular needs, children that come to school trudging through their snow with their sandals on,
27:59
and you're going to have to deal with child arrives, you know, being warm, wearing children I think sometimes come to school
28:12
and they haven't eaten for a while and they're hungry.
28:16
And I think that other times they, because there was a lot of activity in the neighborhood last night and they're tired.
28:24
Right.
28:25
And I think that children who are wet, cold, hungry, tired, those kinds of things are going to have to be dealt with
28:37
before they're going to be able to take real advantage of the Head Start experience.
28:41
Right. And that's part of that whole family approach that you were just talking about.
28:46
And I'm not blaming the parents. I'm just saying it is what it is.
28:49
Life be life.
28:51
That there's a constituency that you may not have been prepared by your academic training to really know.
29:02
And you've got to be in it for a while before you get it.
29:04
Right.
29:05
It's not easy work at all.
29:06
Oh, no.
29:07
It's not, but very needed.
29:09
And rewarding.
29:10
It's essential work.
29:11
I think that's one of the things that I discovered within my first six months of being a Head Start director.
29:19
It's so different from being the health and nutrition manager.
29:24
When I sat in that chair, I felt the weight.
29:29
I felt the weight of the program, our children, the responsibility.
29:35
And that's one thing that just I can't even describe.
29:46
Well, you're responsible for more than just the children.
29:48
You're responsible for the program.
29:50
Right.
29:51
Because the people that are primarily responsible for the children can do that.
29:56
But if you're not responsible for the program, you're not going to have the program.
30:02
Because you've got to follow the rules.
30:06
You've got to follow the guidelines.
30:07
And there's so many rules and guidelines.
30:09
There's so many rules and guidelines.
30:10
Many more now than when I was a Head Start director.
30:12
Many, many more.
30:14
And if you don't follow those rules and guidelines, the people with the funds are liable to find somebody else who will.
30:22
Yeah.
30:23
That's right.
30:24
So it's a big responsibility.
30:27
Definitely is.
30:29
So what you have?
30:34
I'm just so excited that Charles is here.
30:37
We love Charles.
30:39
Charles has been really helpful for our programs.
30:44
I can't speak for our programs.
30:46
I know for me, for me, it's been a great help.
30:49
And I'm just glad that you're here.
30:52
I'm glad to be here.
30:53
I appreciate all the work that you've done.
30:56
And I appreciate you taking time to come and visit with us.
31:01
My pleasure.
31:02
I've enjoyed it since the moment I arrived.
31:04
Yay.
31:05
And we do plan on, you know, Charles thinks he's retiring.
31:11
Who told him he could retire?
31:13
Who told him that?
31:14
But we want to ensure that, you know, we keep your legacy going.
31:19
We want to, you know, touch other people how you've touched us with what you've done.
31:25
We want to touch other people how you've touched us with what we have done.
31:29
So I hope that this podcast reached many across the nation because that's how important you are to us.
31:35
That's very nice of you to say.
31:37
Thank you very much.
31:38
And you're important to me.
31:39
You did all the work for CKF.
31:40
I didn't do it.
31:41
You did it.
31:42
You stood up to do it.
31:43
Yes, sir.
31:45
Well, through your guidance.
31:47
This is the show.
31:48
Thank you so much for listening.
31:50
Charles, thanks again for coming.
31:52
You have been listening to Look Who's Talking.