Latest / Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love / 193: Amisha Shrimanker | A Fractional CMO's Perspective on Marketing

Transcript

193: Amisha Shrimanker | A Fractional CMO's Perspective on Marketing · Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love

• 0:00
  Amisha: Build a customer journey with you. Say, hey. These are the people you're bringing in through here. What do we need to do to get them to start as a lead and make them your biggest fan so they're advocating for your business? That's my thing when I'm working with a client.
• 0:15
  Alright. We're gonna bring in the lead today. What do we need to do to ascend them so that they become an advocate for your business? They're rooting about you, referring you, and they're talking about you to everybody else, and they're bringing in friends like, hey. You know what?
• 0:28
  Work with this lawyer or work with this company because they're awesome. They'll take care of you. You wanna kinda, like, look at your customer that way.
• 0:36
  Intro: Welcome to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. What if you could hang out with successful women lawyers? Ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team, and systems, mastering money issues, and more? Then take an insight or two to help you build a wealth generating law firm. Each week, your host, Devina Frederick, takes an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve and will pay you on time, and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love.
• 1:07
  Devina is founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer, and her goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund and still have time to enjoy the lifestyle of your dreams. Now here's Devina.
• 1:27
  Davina: Hi. This is Devina. And before we jump into today's show, I'd like first to introduce you to some of our sponsors. Over the last four years, Noble Marketing has tracked more than two fifty law firms and discovered 60 to 80% of new client calls were generated through Google My Business and Google Ads. Basically,
• 1:49
  Davina: you need
• 1:49
  Davina: to be on Google, noble marketing can help. I recommend them because they have an incredible guarantee. Your campaign will be profitable in three months or less, or they'll work for free up to an additional three months. If they fail after a total of six months, they'll refund your entire investment, including ad spend. If you could use more qualified leads, I encourage you to reach out to ronnie dievernoblemarketing.co.
• 2:15
  Mention you heard about them here on the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, and Noble Marketing will waive your setup fee instantly saving you $2,500 or more. When prospective clients are looking for an attorney, they usually turn to Google first. Optimize My Firm helps law firms grow their practices and attract more right fit clients through on page and back end search engine optimization. Optimize My Firm can help your firm rank higher on Google so that clients can find you before they find your competition. They serve personal injury, family law, workers' comp, immigration, and other types of law firms.
• 2:55
  Optimize My Firm does seo the right way, delivering meaningful results with geographic exclusivity and no contracts. Contact them today at optimizemyfirm.com or click the link in the show notes.
• 3:09
  Davina: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. I'm your host, Devina Fredrick. And today, I'm here with Amisha Shrimanker, who I'm so excited to have. She is a fractional chief marketing officer, CMO. And I don't think we've ever had a CMO on the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast before.
• 3:28
  She has a company where she works with professional service businesses as a fractional chief marketing officers to help them develop strategy and direct their teams so that they are really getting the word out about your business in a smart way and in a way that's going to be effective for you. So welcome, Amisha. I'm so glad you're here.
• 3:48
  Amisha: Hey, Davina. Thanks for having me. Super excited.
• 3:51
  Davina: Good. So why don't you tell us a little bit about how you got into this work? How did your career lead you to this?
• 3:58
  Amisha: Yeah. So I was a conversion copywriter before I took on the role of a Fractional CMO. And I was a copywriter for the last, I wanna say, almost five years in the digital marketing space. So I have worked with authors, influencers, coaches, experts, if you will, who, you know, are great at what they do, and they wanted to launch their careers or their businesses, you know, reaching masses in the online world. Like, hey.
• 4:24
  What does a funnel look like? And how do I do a launch? And I would come in and work with them on the strategy of what how their launches should go, and I would be writing copy for them. So I have a lot of that marketing knowledge. And I got to a point where I was like, alright.
• 4:39
  I'm giving away all the strategy for free. And, yes, I am writing copy, but I really like the strategy part of it. I really like sitting with the client to kind of, like, you know, work with them on their marketing campaigns, look at data. I can geek out on stuff like that all day. At the end, I'm just known as a copywriter, which is great, and copywriting really pays well.
• 4:59
  And, you know, I loved my boutique studio that I had. It used to be called The Copy Crew, but I was like, I need to make that transition to the other side where I am hired just to get paid to offer strategy work. And that's when I dove dug deep into this world of fracturing CMO ing. And I'm like, alright. I think this is it.
• 5:15
  You know? This is where I get paid to think. I get paid to offer strategic insights. I love looking at data, and I can really make an impact here more so than I can just, you know, write a copy for a launch campaign and do so much more and solve bigger problems that go beyond just launching in the calendar year. So
• 5:33
  Davina: Right. Right. Right. Sounds like you. So I also come from a copywriting background and a marketing background.
• 5:38
  I worked in professional services marketing for fifteen years before I became a lawyer. And when I started this business, I started out kind of in the doing, helping people do. And what I found is that most people were doing because they were following the crowd and they weren't doing because they really understood why they needed to be doing what they were doing. And so it sounds like you had the same sort of epiphany or experience. You're working with people on copy, and then you're finding out that they don't have a good strategy that they're just throwing spaghetti at the wall, hoping something sticks and the copy can't fix that if the strategy is not good.
• 6:15
  Does that sound accurate?
• 6:17
  Amisha: That sounds completely accurate. I mean, they would have other problems like, hey. We've not nurtured our email list in a while. We've not, you know, showed up and build on that awareness and, you know, people don't really know who we are. But yet, we're gonna be launching our high ticket coaching program.
• 6:33
  But there are other things that need to be paid attention to before they go on, you know, launching something or their offer isn't optimized or they don't have that strategy. So a lot of missing pieces, and I would just be called in to, hey. We just need a copywriter to write the copy. And it would occur to me, like, they haven't got the other things fixed, and they really need to be paying attention to that. And I would tell them, like, maybe we need to work on this before we start working on your launch.
• 6:57
  And they would sit up and take notice and, oh, thank you for telling us that. And you're right. It was just so much more than, like, hey. Let's just launch this thing and make millions of dollars. But, really, they had no strategy.
• 7:07
  They didn't know what was going on in their business. They thought that just launching something would, you know, get them all the revenue that they need.
• 7:15
  Davina: Right. Right. Right. We were talking before we started recording about legal market and your interest in the legal market. And you said something interesting because you said that you're seeing a lot of lawyers taking different approaches and also doing some other things with businesses with regard to starting businesses or serving clients.
• 7:35
  So I'm curious kind of what your observation has been because so I obviously have a huge audience of law firm owners and I get to see their marketing in my feeds and see what they're doing. And I'm seeing a lot of people obviously marketing their law firms, but also maybe doing spin off kinds of businesses. Tell me what interests you about that and what are you seeing that's drawn you to helping lawyers in this area?
• 8:02
  Amisha: Yeah. For sure. So I find that lawyers have been whatever I've been reading of them and whatever research that has brought me to this is they're great at what they do. Obviously, they have their licenses and, you know, they've been fantastic at, you know, in their legal counsel professionally, and they built their practices from the ground up. And they may have got it to half 1,000,000.
• 8:23
  You know, they're probably scaling to 1,000,000. And where the interesting happens is that the person who started the solopreneur lawyer who started, they are doing so much of marketing on their own. It's kind of like crazy. You know, they're doing all the roles. They're being their top salesperson.
• 8:39
  They're being the CEO. They're being the chief marketing officer. And it comes to a point where they're like, they've got everything up in their brain, but they're not kind of maybe delegating enough or they are not looking at their data as much as they need to. Like, alright. You know, I'm trying 10 different things.
• 8:55
  I'm doing TikTok. I'm doing this. I'm put this funnel out. But what is really working in my business? Right?
• 9:01
  And that's where you have a lot of them possibly even burnt out because they're doing 10 different things. I like to keep things simple in my business, and that's where data comes in really handy. So I would tell them like, hey. Out of all the things that you've done even in the last year, what is that 20%? It's the Pareto principle.
• 9:17
  Right? The 20% that has brought you 80% of the results. Why don't you just focus on that one thing? And it's really hard for us to do that because, you know, we're business people, we're visionaries, and we're kinda like, oh, this one's doing that or this one's dancing on TikTok or this one's trying this other thing. Maybe I should do this.
• 9:35
  But, really, your business does not need to do that. And your law practice can be different from, you know, your competitors. What they're doing does not necessarily mean that you're gonna have success with it too. So you really need to kinda take stock, like, alright. What are my strengths?
• 9:49
  What have I done fantastic over the last six months or the twelve months? What traffic source or what marketing strategy has brought me the most number of clients even in my professional practice? Why don't I just double down on that and look for inventive ways to kind of, like, you know, get more visible, bring in more leads, and start closing those leads instead of trying a different social media platform or let me try speaking or let me try podcasting? And they all work, but it's really your bandwidth, how much you really wanna work, and, you know, what is the data telling you? So what I'm trying to say is look at the data, see where you've had the most results, most success, and kinda, like, double down on, you know, maybe one or two strategies, and that's really it.
• 10:30
  Especially when you're, like, less than a million and you're trying to scale to a million. Simple works best. Simple scales faster.
• 10:37
  Davina: Right. Right. Right. And I think it can be so distracting. There's so much chatter going on on social media about, you know, I'm doing this now or I'm doing that.
• 10:45
  And I'm getting clients and it's working for me. And I think that a lot of small business owners and we're talking about small law firm owners, we get attracted to that shiny object that somebody else is talking about. Or if it's working for them, it must work, will work for me. There's one of the things you said it a couple of times now, and I really want to go into a little bit deeper is data. Talk about the importance of data.
• 11:07
  And I think this is something that as detail oriented as lawyers are, and as much as we dig into the details on behalf of our client, we often don't do that for ourselves when it comes to our marketing data, because we really don't know what we're looking at. We really don't understand it. We have to look multiple places for data. I know I was just reviewing my own data this last week and you have to look in multiple places to put together the full picture because one program isn't gonna tell you everything that you need to know about what's happening in a funnel, let's say. And it's the same thing with marketing.
• 11:40
  I think a lot of times lawyers don't know what data they should be looking at, where that data is, how to make sense of it. What's been your experience in working with your clients in terms of how they are even aware that they should be looking at data? Where do they get confused on that process?
• 11:57
  Amisha: Oh my gosh. Here's the thing. And this is an entire conversation, or we can just have a master class on this because there are so many KPIs. And when I say KPIs, I mean key processing indicators that tell you how close you are to your bottom line, how healthy is your business. But here's what I want you to you know, your listeners to understand.
• 12:15
  Look at three numbers. Look at your current revenue and look at the time you've been spending. And then what is that gap? Where you wanna be? Right?
• 12:23
  What is that gap? So, like, your current revenue is so for example, if it's a law practice that's currently making 500 k, they're working sixty hours a week. Right? And they wanna kinda, like, so even two numbers. And where they wanna be end of the year, they wanna kind of like maybe get to 800 k, and they wanna work thirty hours a week.
• 12:43
  Look at that gap. And then when we look at that gap, fantastic. This is what we're solving for. Very important for us to know, like, where we currently are and where we currently wanna go. You have that.
• 12:53
  Fantastic. Now next thing you wanna do is kind of, like, look at the last twelve months. What's been your most and go back to this because oftentimes we think we're doing nothing right in our business, but that's not true. We are doing some things right. Look at the last twelve months.
• 13:08
  Look at the most profitable month in your business, and you're gonna see one month that brought in the most revenue. Fantastic. Okay. Let's dig down deeper. Look at that month and what were the marketing campaigns that you ran that month?
• 13:21
  Was this a special promotion? Did you do a talk at the local chamber of commerce that, you know, got you a lot of leads and qualified leads who wanted to kinda work with you? So what was going on in that month? You wanna kinda, like, take a list down everything that you did. And it's hard, and that's why, you know, you kinda need to keep track.
• 13:38
  Say, June was your best month and everything that you did. And then say, okay. These are all the marketing activities I did. This marketing effort brought me the most number of leads. And say, if it's SEO on your blog.
• 13:51
  Right? And then you're like, alright. If SEO is working, then I need to kind of, like, double down and see how can I get creative here? Maybe you have an SEO agency who's taking care of all your blogging and, you know, putting you on the Google search results and all of that. Alright.
• 14:06
  What are the creative ways that you can kind of, like, dial up on that? If I'm bringing in a lot of leads through SEO, how can I kind of, like if it takes me, say, a month to get that lead to convert and become, you know, a buyer or my client, how can I shorten that time? So it's really looking at that best month, best marketing efforts, and what you can do to kind of, like, you know, be more creative and optimize that particular metric and say, alright. How do I make the lead go from just being a lead to a client even faster? So there are different ways of doing this.
• 14:40
  Davina: Yeah. Yeah. That's a very smart approach to look at what's really working for you and then double down on that because I think so many people look at, well, this is working okay, but maybe I need to try something else instead of putting more into what is working. I certainly see that with social media. People say, well, you know, I'm paying for ads and that's working.
• 15:02
  Maybe I need to go start a TikTok account because I heard that there are a lot of lawyers who are getting business from TikTok and it's like, well, you could do that. It's going to be a lot of work to do that. Or you could just put more into your Google ads or see what's working in your Google ads and make those tweaks. So I think that's a really smart approach. Well, first of all, think it would be good for you to explain what a fractional CMO is.
• 15:25
  I think people are used to hearing fractional CFO, chief financial officer, and they may have some understanding of that, maybe not. But tell me what a fractional CMO is. How are you different from, let's say, hiring a marketing person in my business, a marketing person. Right?
• 15:43
  Amisha: Yeah. So a fractional CMO is best when a chief marketing officer is one of your best hires when you're close to a million dollars in your business or you're scaling past a million dollar in your business. And I say this because I mentioned this before. Oftentimes, the CEO is also doing a lot of the marketing, lot of the strategizing, lot of the thinking, lot of the executing. Right?
• 16:05
  And that's when they're like, I've done this for years. I wanna kinda, like, not be the face of the company, but really not think about marketing campaigns at this point. I really want someone to come in and take the marketing off my plate, the strategic marketing, and kind of like, I have a team. It could even be a small team. Like, I've worked with clients where they've probably had a copywriter and a social media manager, and that's all that is of their marketing team.
• 16:30
  So they have the technicians, quote, unquote, but they don't have the strategy to kinda, like, do what they need to do to meet those quarterly goals. So that's where a CMO comes in. And when I say fractional, it's someone who is giving you a 100% results in a part time basis. Although I don't like that part time connotation because it's like, it's not a part time hire. Someone is gonna, you know, bring you full time results just in a part time capacity.
• 16:54
  A fractional CMO is not a full time hire, and that's great because a C suite employee can cost, I think, easily 200, you know, north of $300,000. But a fraction CMO is just more cost effective. Here's how a fraction CMO is maybe different from your marketing agency. So like I said, marketing agency is more like tactical based. They come in like, hey.
• 17:15
  Do you need a video editor? Do you need someone to come in and write social media captions? Or do you need a copywriter? So it's more tactical based. They're not thinking strategy.
• 17:24
  They are not someone who is gonna look at all your revenue, all your numbers, what are your best marketing campaigns, what are your KPIs. Do you even have a dashboard? And if you don't, a marketing agency is not necessarily gonna build a marketing dashboard for you, but a CMO will build a dashboard saying, alright. These are all our marketing efforts. Let's look at all the KPIs.
• 17:47
  This is how much we're spending to bring in a lead. This is how much we're spending to kind of convert that lead to a client or a buyer. This is our ROAS return on ad spend. This is the lifetime value. Oh, we only have one product.
• 18:03
  There's no way to kind of increase that average order value when we bring in a client. They buy this one thing and they're off the go. We don't have another product to kind of retain them longer in the business. So a CMO is actually gonna look at everything. They're really gonna look at the health of your business.
• 18:18
  They're gonna look at where the marketing dollars are being spent. I worked with a client and an ecommerce company, and they were spending thousands and thousands of dollars hiring this Facebook ads agency. But the truth was in the last six months, their ad agency wasn't really bringing them any return on the advertising spend. It was a lot of money being flushed down the toilet to really say. And I'm like, you know what?
• 18:41
  You need to, I think, stop bringing in leads. Your problem is not leads. And that's what a lot of businesses think. Right? If I only get in a lot of leads through the door, I can convert them to sales.
• 18:51
  I was like, your problem is not the leads. Your problem is none of your leads are converting. So here's that definition. There's a difference between a lead and a sales qualified lead. A CMO will tell you, hey, you're bringing in leads, and some of these people are never gonna buy, which is okay.
• 19:07
  We all have that in our businesses. But if you're only bringing in leads and you're not qualifying any of them or none of them are sales qualified leads, then you have a problem. Something tells me that your sales process is broken or there's something wrong in your messaging that you're not bringing in sales qualified leads. You're just bringing in someone who wants your freebie stuff. They wanna download a PDF, and they're happy staying as an email subscriber.
• 19:32
  Right? So there's a lot of that. And a CMO will look at all of this, build a customer journey with you, say, hey. These are the people you're bringing in through here. What do we need to do to get them to start as a lead and make them your biggest fan?
• 19:47
  So they're advocating for your business. That's my thing when I'm working with a client. Alright. We're gonna bring in the lead today. What do we need to do to ascend them so that they become an advocate for your business?
• 19:59
  They're rooting about you, referring you, and they're talking about you to everybody else, and they're bringing in friends like, hey. You know what? Work with this lawyer or work with this company because they're awesome. They'll take care of you. You wanna kinda, like, look at your customer that way.
• 20:12
  So I don't think any marketing agency is gonna do that for you as well as a CMO is because they really live and breathe your business for at least three months when they start off with you. And any fractional CMO who comes in, you know, is gonna be working with you at a minimum of three months. And, obviously, that engagement can go on to six months and even a year sometimes. So Mhmm.
• 20:32
  Davina: Yeah. Mhmm.
• 20:34
  Davina: I hope you're enjoying the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. We'll get back to the show in just a moment. But first, I'd like to thank some of our sponsors. In the next ten years, 90% of legal services will be delivered online. Gavel is the software lawyers are using to streamline internal document automation and build online legal products like landlord legal or hello divorce.
• 21:01
  With gavel, you can easily build client intake that generates document sets through powerful logic based document automation. Gavel, formerly known as document can be used internally, or you can make it client facing. It also integrates with nearly everything. Clio even rated Gavel their best integration tool. Visit www.gavel.io and mention the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast for a free fourteen day trial, or just click on the link in the show notes.
• 21:33
  Wealthy Woman Lawyer helps women law firm owners scale their law firm businesses to and through a million dollars without overworked and overwhelmed. If you are a woman law firm owner who wants to make more money but doesn't wanna work yourself into the ground in the process, then I invite you to check out my free training, three stages from law firm solo to ceo how to get to 7 figures faster with my proven million dollar law firm growth roadmap. This is the exact same roadmap I've shared with hundreds of other women law firm owners so they could create and scale a profitable, sustainable and wealth generating law firm business that allows them not only to easily fund the lifestyle of their dreams, but also to have the time freedom they need to enjoy it. Do you want to travel more, spend more time with family and friends, or just have more time for yourself, but you're afraid that your law firm will fall apart if you're not there day in and day out, then this is the training for you. Visit https:go.wealthywomanlawyer.com/training now, or you can just click on the link in the show notes.
• 22:44
  And now back to our show.
• 22:46
  Davina: To me, I always think of it in terms of as a CEO myself of a business, I am visionary and I'm the one who's doing a lot of the deep thinking, most of the deep thinking about my business. So I hire a lot of people to help me, but I'm the one who's doing the thinking. So when we start hiring CFOs, CMO's, people at that C suite sort of level, and we can't, obviously that's not a wise hire straight out hire all of these people when you're only in a million dollars. So if you can get these services on a fractional basis to help you for these outside business advisors, what it does for you, it's different because it's somebody who's helping you do the thinking. So no matter how many people I hire to help me implement, which I need people to implement, I still bearing the burden of the exhaustion of having to do all the thinking and think through everything and go comb through that data and develop these strategies and all of that.
• 23:42
  So at some point it begins to be a wise hire for me to start thinking who else can I get to help me come in and do some of this high level thinking so that I can really see the overarching picture and see what needs to come in and come out where I'm wasting money? So I think that's what I think of when I think of these sort of kind of fractional help with business advisors. You're part of the team of business advisors for a small business. I want to share a little story about a client of mine recently to kind of help connect this for lawyers. I have a client who gets hundreds of calls a month through her advertising efforts, online advertising.
• 24:22
  And in fact, she's now had seen one area of practice sort of skyrocket to a thousand calls a month. Unfortunately, the practice area is not one that she can serve at the level through her law firm because of what she charges in her law firm. A client that has a problem, has a need, but they can't afford her services. So that is a good example of something where a CMO could come in and help you sort of identify that instead of you spending ad spend and then getting these kinds of leads that you can't service. Sharing that for our audience so that they can imagine this.
• 25:01
  If they're not in a world of online funnels, you are in a world of online funnels. Let's say you're doing Google Facebook advertising, or you're doing stuff online and you're just trying to get engagement. This is a part of thinking through how do we convert that. In this particular case, my client has decided to create a product. So this goes back to what you said earlier In analyzing the data, she's decided to create a product for these clients because she knows they can't afford her fees because she charges a substantial amount for what she does.
• 25:32
  She's very experienced. So she said, I can create a product for these people though that will service them so that they will get service and I'm not leaving that money on the table. And so a CMO is somebody that might help you to see those if you can't see those opportunities. Am I right?
• 25:47
  Amisha: You're a 100% right.
• 25:48
  Davina: Okay, good. So let's talk a little bit about marketing strategy because I do want people to walk away with some gold nuggets that they might be able to think about in their business. First of all, let's talk about sort of trends in marketing right now and in legal marketing or professional services marketing. What are some of the things that you're seeing that seem to be getting results for your clients?
• 26:11
  Amisha: Some of the things that I've been seeing are, again, all comes back to data, and every business is structured very differently. Right? So in some cases where we had a client that was comfortable, and this was during the pandemic, they were selling this very high ticket course online, and that was a different time. And that was a time where people were, like, hungry to buy anything, and you could really create a product. I'm not saying all products were like that, but you could really put together a course and kind of, like, sell it during pandemic.
• 26:40
  And it didn't matter what you were selling it for. You had a very wide audience of people purchasing. There was less skepticism. There was less like, alright. Maybe let me think about it.
• 26:49
  Let me get on the call with somebody or let me talk to my husband. They were like, alright. I see it. I need it. I wanna buy it.
• 26:55
  Times have changed since the pandemic. Right? New normal, I don't know, whatever it is right now. People are more and especially in the economy that we are living in right now, people are not gonna say, alright. Just because your course is $2,000, it may be great.
• 27:10
  You may have hundreds of testimonials. I don't know if I'm ready to spend that money, and I don't know if I wanna spend that money. And gone are the times you can just rely on marketing automations and say, like, alright. My email is so great because the copy is fantastic. People are gonna pull out their money, pull out their credit cards, and kind of, like, buy for this.
• 27:29
  Right? I think there needs to be a lot more personalization, and that's what I'm seeing in today's market that, you know, you can't just rely completely on automation. Automation is great, but you need to have it some personalization in there. So whether that is and there's so many ways we can do that. So for my client, we advise them instead of just, you know, having a launch sequence go out and expecting people to buy it because it worked so well two years ago, three years ago, You may need to get on the phone with some of these people, you know, who are opening your emails.
• 27:59
  They are clicking. They're not yet buying. That tells you right there that they're interested, but it's a stretch. It's a stretch for them to spend $2,000. They may have questions which are not necessarily answering in your email.
• 28:11
  Two things why this is really great. A, you really get to talk to your potential leads who are sales qualified or marketing qualified, let's say, at that point, and they're very interested, but there's something holding them back. When you, as the company owner, can talk to your potential your best leads on the phone, really understand what's holding them back, at that time, you can make that decision like, alright. You know, it's maybe the price, or what if I throw in another bonus for you? What if I do this?
• 28:39
  And you can probably, on the phone, optimize your offer and make it as and sweeten the deal. They may take you up on it or they may not. But at least at that point, you have data. This is how my customer is thinking. This is a different customer.
• 28:53
  They're at this point in their journey. They may need some more, I don't know, whatever it is. But, you know, you have data. You've spoken to them. You know how they're thinking.
• 29:01
  So I think it's great. So personalizing your things like that, especially if it's a high ticket offer, you can't just rely on a launch email sequence and say it's gonna do all of selling for you. The other ways, there's a lot of, like, this thing in the industry, at least in the online world. Hey. Webinars don't work.
• 29:18
  Okay. The typical webinar doesn't work anymore. What you can do is you can kind of, like, call it an info session and say, like, hey. You know what? I'm hanging out here.
• 29:27
  If you have any questions, let's make this informal. It's not heavy on the pitch. It's not heavy on who I am and how great I am. You kinda, like, you know, kinda, like, ease them into talking about your process. You ease them into, like, hey.
• 29:40
  This is exactly what's offered. You have to do these. You have to, like, make it more personal. Maybe change up your webinar presentation. You know?
• 29:48
  If you've been running the same webinar for years and it used to convert pretty well and it's not converting anymore, chances are either you need new traffic or you need to kind of change the content of your presentation, look for a new angle. I think the adage for a lot of salespeople is always be closing. And I think if you're a marketer, which I think a lot of entrepreneurs are, whether we like to call it our call ourselves that or not or whether we think like that or not, is always be testing. So what used to work before may not work again. And I like adding personal touches wherever I can.
• 30:20
  I always tell my clients that, hey. If it's a high ticket offer, you may need to get on the phone with some of these people. You may need to offer more than one webinar in a week to kind of see where they are at in the journey. Or you may need to do an Instagram Live. Or you may need to show them more results.
• 30:36
  Like, how is this really working? Right? It's good enough to, like, put testimonials on a sales page. What if you do something different? What if you interview your best clients who've actually had results with you and just have that be the info session?
• 30:49
  Like, hey. I'm not here to talk about how great I am, but I've got a roundtable of excellent people who've gone through this program, and we're gonna go around the room and really talk to them ten minutes per participant to see what really worked for them, what were their hesitations, and what they got out of the program. Sometimes even seeing that approach like, oh, wow. This worked for them. I could see myself in this person's shoes.
• 31:11
  That may work as opposed to a traditional webinar where you're going through the slides and going through motions.
• 31:18
  Davina: So I want to talk about how this affects law firms and lawyers because law firms and lawyers, unless they're doing some other product, they're not running webinars. They cannot legally contact their clients. You can't pick up the phone and call prospects unless they have reached out to you for services and maybe they haven't made a choice. Then you can call and ask them if they've hired another attorney. And if they can't, if they haven't yet, then you can have a conversation with them.
• 31:47
  So I want to talk about marketing for law firms online. So what lawyers are doing online is a lot of putting out a lot of content and they may be using different social platforms to put out the content, but they don't have sales funnel set up in the way that an online business would have because are people who are coming to them already have a pressing problem. They already have an urgency. And so what they're doing is more brand awareness. They're getting brand awareness so that their people know that they're out there.
• 32:20
  They do the service, they're able to help them. And that's kind of what they're using social media for, unless they are like my client thinking about going and building a funnel for this one particular audience. But for a law firm business, people are calling and the phone is ringing. They get a lot of referrals from other people. They're looking to raise their visibility in front of an audience.
• 32:42
  And then the conversion is how we handle them once they contact our office and have conversations with them. So I want to talk about those types of trends that we're seeing online. Are you working with clients who are doing marketing other than online or is online kind of your area of specialty? And that's really you're looking at certain platforms online that are more successful than others.
• 33:05
  Amisha: So to answer that question, online is definitely my specialty. And when it comes to a more traditional business, say, a dental practice or a lawyer practice where, to your point, they're not doing webinars, they're not doing any of that, we kind of, like, wanna look at their overall business ecosystem. Like, alright. Okay. Let's paint a picture.
• 33:25
  And one of the things that I do with my clients when we work together, like, alright. Tell me how do your people find you. And if they are on social media and if they are posting, say, on LinkedIn or TikTok or Instagram, okay. That's your traffic. Alright.
• 33:39
  What's the next step? What happens after that? What is your call to action? Are you asking them to get on the phone? Are you asking them to download something from you?
• 33:46
  What does that process look like? And we kinda, like, take a look at each of those steps. Okay. Where do they go once they find you on TikTok? Where do they click a button?
• 33:56
  Do they book a call with you? Do they get on your email list? And we're looking at all of those and where I know this is my online marketing and data brain coming into picture. Like, I'm looking at those conversion rates at each point of that funnel.
• 34:09
  Davina: Let's explain conversion rates in each part of the funnel, because I think when you're talking, although a lot of our listeners are savvy in terms of understanding it, other people may not know what conversion rate we understand conversion rate in terms of somebody came in my office or they got on a Zoom call with me, I converted them to a client. The way you're talking about it, there are different levels of conversion, right? As you're moving them through a process.
• 34:31
  Amisha: Exactly. So a conversion rate could be like, okay, they came to your website. Let's just keep it very simple. They come to your website. They know you are a lawyer.
• 34:41
  You know, you practice, say, family law. Okay. And then they look at alright. Say you have, like, a thousand impressions. And on your website, on your homepage, you're like, hey, you know, book a call with us.
• 34:54
  How many people are you getting to click on that button? We take a look at that. Say it's a 186 or a 180 clicks or something. That's a percentage. Okay.
• 35:03
  From there, if they are booking a call, how many people are showing up to that call? Right? And if out of a 186 people who booked a call, maybe, I don't know, 20 people show up to that call. So there is that big drop there. We look at that conversion rate, whatever that percent is.
• 35:19
  So what happened between booking a call and showing up to a call? We look at the process. Are you sending them text reminders? Are you emailing them? Are there other ways that to kind of, like, you know, improve that show up rate?
• 35:33
  So we look at that show up rate because that's where the problem is. Like, we are getting a lot of people to book. They're scheduling themselves, but they're not showing up. Like, what happened between booking the call and showing up to the call? So that is a conversion rate we might wanna, like, address and say, alright.
• 35:47
  Let's improve this here. Another example is if you're not asking them to book a call, say you're asking them to opt in for an ebook. Okay? I don't know if lawyers do that today. Opt in for an ebook.
• 36:01
  Okay. 30% opted in for an ebook. Then when I opt into that ebook on that landing page and I put in my information, I put in my email and my name, I probably went to a thank you page. What are people doing in that thank you page? Is there an opportunity?
• 36:18
  Maybe there's a video of you like, hey. Thank you so much for opting in. You could sell something there potentially if you want, if you're savvy enough, if you're at that point. Or you could just say like, hey. Thank you for visiting.
• 36:31
  And, you know, while you're here, why don't you I don't know if it's another free consult or if it says something else that they could sell there. Or it could just be a friendly video saying, hey. Thank you for opting in. Thank you for booking a call or thank you for opting into this thing. And whether you're interested, this is what I have to sell to you.
• 36:49
  If that is you know, if they're thinking if they're a scaling practice, like you talked about your other client where she could sell a $37 something. So it could be either two things. So we're looking at those conversion rates at every step of the way. And if they are not buying that, alright, let's see if we have another email sequence that says, hey. You checked out this offer.
• 37:10
  You thought about it, but something happened that you didn't buy. Can we kind of in online marketing, we call that an abandoned cart email sequence where, like, you didn't buy, something happened. You know, you see those, and I'm gonna share an example from ecommerce. Like, we like something. We like some fuzzy slippers.
• 37:27
  We add it to the cart, but we forgot to add in the payment option. Right? We get an email from the fuzzy slipper company like, hey. You forgot these fuzzy slippers. They're waiting for you to take them home or something.
• 37:39
  So it's called an email reminder. Like, do you have that system in place? That's a fancy language, abandoned cart email sequence, but it's basically following up. Whether you're calling them whether you're asking them to book a consult with you or you're asking them to buy something for you, you're constantly following up because follow-up is the name of the game. Like, hey.
• 37:57
  I'm reminding you. Please show up to the call. Hey. I'm reminding you. You added this to the cart, but you didn't buy.
• 38:02
  What happened? So it's just constant communication, and we see all those numbers. Where are you kind of, like, dropping the ball? One of my clients, what they did was they had a great offer. It was a low ticket offer that they were selling on their thank you page.
• 38:18
  They would add it to cart. People would add their payment info, but not everybody would, like, you know, hit the checkout button. And it was really frustrating. Like, what was going on on that page, that checkout page? Upon further, like, observation on that checkout page, we noticed that they had videos of people testimonials.
• 38:38
  And, you know, in essence, it's like, oh, great. We have people who are talking about this product. We'll just throw this a video testimonial on the checkout page. You wanna keep it simple at that point. Don't do that because that's a distraction.
• 38:49
  So we removed those videos from the checkout page. We kept it very simple. The only thing they needed to do was, like, you know, check out with the product. That's it. So it's just looking at the conversion rate at every process.
• 39:01
  Where are people following off?
• 39:03
  Davina: So what we can take away from this as lawyers, I think there's some certain takeaways because lawyers don't typically have that unless they have some other online business
• 39:11
  Amisha: if
• 39:11
  Davina: you're talking about a law firm. But I think there's a couple of things very important that you said. One is that really dialing in on your process and seeing where am I losing people in the process of people making an appointment with me. If they're coming to a website and they want to schedule an appointment, do we have other things on the website that's distracting them from the scheduling an appointment with me? That's something that's a huge gap for a lot of people is you get people with you on your website, they start looking around and then they don't get on your list so that you can do email marketing to them or whatever it is, send them those email blasts every few weeks.
• 39:45
  The other thing, though, that I think is really critical about what you said and kind of looking at the online world and saying, how can we apply that to law firms is this personalization and creating this high touch experience for people without you having to do all the touching. So having ways that you automate how you contact your prospects. If somebody has reached out to your website and they've bounced off and they haven't made an appointment, how can you send follow-up emails to them or follow-up sequences to them that says, hey, we see you were here. If we can help let us know. Here's what we can do for you.
• 40:25
  And maybe one of the things I talk with a lot of my clients about is video education, video libraries and educations where you can direct people to get some education and you're educating them about the service that they're needing or requiring them that will help them make the decision to hire you. When you're using the examples that you're using, people may go, that doesn't apply to me because I don't have an online business. What we're talking about are people that have online businesses, but their lawyers conducting business in a much more direct way with their marketing. They may not be doing webinars, which who's to say that they shouldn't be doing webinars. But they might not be doing webinars, have a full, so they're not making offers.
• 41:05
  They're not selling courses. You can't make an offer in that way. What you can do is offer to help them when they come to you and say, I have a problem. They've already raised their hand. It's wonderful because as a lawyer, they've already raised their hand and said, I have a problem.
• 41:19
  The key is being the last law firm that they call because so how do you And do I think some of these making people feel like more than just a number, having multiple touches once they've reached out to you instead of letting those leads slip away.
• 41:35
  Amisha: Yeah. I love what you said about the video. Even if it's someone who needs to book a call with you, on your thank you page or even in the email follow ups, you can just show them case study after case study depending on your niche. Like, hey. This is how I don't know if you can discuss that or if lawyers can show those testimonials or maybe
• 41:54
  Davina: they can't testimonials, but we can't divulge client private information and private client.
• 42:00
  Amisha: If there's a way you can show that you are the person like you said, it's gonna be the last company, last lawyer that they're gonna call to solve that problem. How can you prove to your potential lead that you can be the last company that, you know, we worked on a case like this before and this is what we did without maybe divulging client information, confidential information. If that is a process, if that is something that you can do in your marketing, show them the results or show them some outcomes like, we've helped so many cases, and this is what we've done. And if you can develop that trust before they're you know, that can get them psyched to get on the call with you like, okay. I know you did this.
• 42:38
  How can we make this work
• 42:40
  Davina: for you? So I like the idea of, building trust too. That's something else too that I think the way lawyers can use social media, use email sequences, can use videos, is when people can see your face and hear your voice and they see your face and hear your voice over and over and over again, you're developing a relationship with them and they're developing a relationship with you and you become a voice they feel that they can trust. And I think that's really where social media can be very powerful for people is that not only the brand awareness and the visibility, but building that know like trust factor, that trust piece. So people have made up their mind that they like you and they trust you before they ever book a call with you.
• 43:25
  So by the time they book a call with you, they're sold working with you. You just may have to help them overcome any of the fear around money investment or anything like that in your legal services and be able to show them the value there. So Amisha, I so appreciate you being here today and sharing with us all of your insight as a fractional CMO and really getting us thinking about us law firms, how that might be a good tool for us in our tool bag to hire somebody on a fractional level who can be a business, bring that high level thinking, but for a fraction of what it would cost to hire somebody in house. Right? So I appreciate you being here.
• 44:01
  Tell us how we can reach out to you and get in touch with you if we want to connect with you and find out more about it.
• 44:06
  Amisha: Sure. You can find me on my website. It's my first name, last name, Amisha Shrimanker dot com. And if this is of interest, you can book a call with me, or you can find me where I play on LinkedIn. I just started.
• 44:18
  So please lower your expectations, everybody, that I am there. Because, well, I used to have a copywriting business. I was very visible on Instagram with my copy services. But I've started, like, playing into LinkedIn, and I think it's really fascinating. So that's where you can connect with me socially, but you can find me on my website if you'd like to book a call and talk more.
• 44:37
  Davina: Wonderful. And so that link will be in the show notes, and I appreciate you being here. I've enjoyed our conversation. I always love to talk marketing with my marketing colleagues, so that's wonderful. Thanks.
• 44:46
  Amisha: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
• 44:48
  Intro: If you're ready to create more of what you truly desire in your business and your life, then you'll want to visit us at wealthywomanlawyer.com to learn more about how we help our clients create wealth generating law firms with ease.