Latest / DISGRACELAND / Bonus Episode: Disgraceland Q1 2026 Preview
Transcript
- 0:00Speaker 1: Disgraceland is a production of Double Elvis. This is a
- 0:17Speaker 1: story about well, it's a story about a bunch of stories,
- 0:21Speaker 1: wild stories, stories too wild for mainstream storytelling. Stories the
- 0:26Speaker 1: corporate studios wouldn't dare tell stories the algorithms will suppress.
- 0:31Speaker 1: These are stories about the most interesting musicians for music history.
- 0:36Speaker 1: And there's stories about musicians and true crime. These are
- 0:40Speaker 1: Disgraceland stories. And this is a revealing look into the
- 0:44Speaker 1: lives and transgressions of the musicians that we love, which
- 0:48Speaker 1: means that it's a story about great music. Unlike that music.
- 0:52Speaker 1: I've played few at the top of the show that
- 0:55Speaker 1: wasn't great music. That was a preset loop from my
- 0:58Speaker 1: melotron called Brubeck and MK one. I played you that
- 1:03Speaker 1: loop because I can't afford the rights to whatever the
- 1:07Speaker 1: hell it is that is number one on the charts today.
- 1:09Speaker 1: And why would I play you that specific slice of
- 1:12Speaker 1: modern cheese if I could afford it, Because today is
- 1:15Speaker 1: the day that I take you behind the scenes of
- 1:17Speaker 1: the upcoming season of Disgraceland. On this episode, we preview
- 1:23Speaker 1: our stories on Lady Gaga, MIAs Apoda and the Gets,
- 1:26Speaker 1: Johnny Thunders and more. I'm Jake Brennan in this as
- 1:31Speaker 1: a special behind the scenes look into the next season
- 1:35Speaker 1: of Disgraceland. All right, guys, I'm trying something new today.
- 1:52Speaker 1: In the past, we used to only release twenty four
- 1:55Speaker 1: episodes per year, and we could have seasons of Disgraceland
- 1:59Speaker 1: in four. Each season, i'd make an announcement and reveal
- 2:02Speaker 1: which artists we were recovering, and we'd all discuss online
- 2:07Speaker 1: all those cases, and you know which other artists you
- 2:10Speaker 1: guys wanted covered in upcoming seasons. But ever since we
- 2:14Speaker 1: evolved our release schedule a couple of years ago to
- 2:16Speaker 1: being always on, there really aren't any seasons anymore. It's
- 2:20Speaker 1: kind of just one big, ongoing season, which, if I'm
- 2:23Speaker 1: being honest, kind of took from me one of the
- 2:25Speaker 1: things that I really liked about Disgraceland, which was having
- 2:28Speaker 1: the space to announce and discuss the upcoming subjects. So
- 2:32Speaker 1: that's what we're gonna do here today, and we're gonna
- 2:35Speaker 1: do it four times a year, every quarter. But it's
- 2:38Speaker 1: gonna be more than an announcement. It's going to be
- 2:40Speaker 1: a behind the scenes look at the show, a discussion
- 2:43Speaker 1: on the artists and the crimes and the production of
- 2:47Speaker 1: the stories that we put together. This conversation is going
- 2:49Speaker 1: to happen at first between Zeth and I, and then
- 2:51Speaker 1: we're going to bring in all of you as well,
- 2:53Speaker 1: and we're going to give you a peek into how
- 2:55Speaker 1: we choose these subjects. Now, you can also help you
- 2:58Speaker 1: a part of this selection process us in more of
- 3:01Speaker 1: a formal way on Patreon, and as we get into
- 3:05Speaker 1: the formal selection of these artists throughout the year, we'll
- 3:09Speaker 1: give you guys who aren't Patreon All access members. Well,
- 3:12Speaker 1: like I said, we'll give you a peek into that
- 3:14Speaker 1: process right here in these behind the scenes episodes. So
- 3:18Speaker 1: let's get started and let me bring you back to
- 3:21Speaker 1: Hollywood nineteen seventy five. Down on Sunset Boulevard, Latchkey, kids
- 3:30Speaker 1: from the suburbs were gravitating to Rodney's English Disco, ground
- 3:34Speaker 1: zero for all things glam and glitter and best of
- 3:38Speaker 1: all transgressive. Carrie Chrome climbed out of the car and
- 3:42Speaker 1: slammed the door shut and watched as the strangers who'd
- 3:44Speaker 1: given her a lift drove off into the distance. She
- 3:48Speaker 1: had no idea how she'd get back home, but who cared.
- 3:52Speaker 1: She wasn't going back there This was the place, and
- 3:55Speaker 1: these were her people. The girls who looked like boys
- 3:58Speaker 1: and boys who looked like earls. The Rooster Hare, the
- 4:02Speaker 1: rhyin stones, the sequins and platform heels, all of its soundtrack,
- 4:07Speaker 1: not by Captain and Taneil or the Fucking Eagles, but
- 4:10Speaker 1: by the New York Dolls, t Rex the Sweet, and
- 4:13Speaker 1: that pre eminent badass of leather clad rock and roll
- 4:17Speaker 1: Susie Quattro. Carrie took it all in and for the
- 4:21Speaker 1: first time in a long time, she felt at ease.
- 4:24Speaker 1: But it wasn't enough to simply be there in the crowd.
- 4:27Speaker 1: Carrie Crome would be an active participant. She wanted to
- 4:31Speaker 1: be the one to write the songs of tomorrow, the
- 4:33Speaker 1: ones local legend DJ Chucky Starr would spin for this
- 4:36Speaker 1: glamorous crowd. It was a crowd that, on any given
- 4:39Speaker 1: night included everyone from Robert and Bonzo of led Zeppelin,
- 4:43Speaker 1: to Ray and Dave at the Kinks, to the once
- 4:45Speaker 1: boy King himself, Elvis Presley, who knows she could run
- 4:49Speaker 1: into Iggy Pop or Elton John and slip them a
- 4:52Speaker 1: page of her lyrics, and maybe even David Bowie himself.
- 4:57Speaker 1: But it wasn't Bowie or Iggy or Elton, a Carrie
- 5:00Speaker 1: met when she went to Hollywood. Instead, she was introduced
- 5:04Speaker 1: to another songwriter, a music producer, a man named Kim Folly.
- 5:10Speaker 1: Foley's resume was scattershot but impressive. He'd written for Warren Zevon,
- 5:15Speaker 1: Alice Cooper and The Birds, and produced songs by Gene
- 5:19Speaker 1: Vincent and Jonathan Richmond. But what really mattered to Carrie
- 5:23Speaker 1: was that he seemed genuinely interested in her songs. He
- 5:27Speaker 1: said she had real talent and that with his guidance,
- 5:31Speaker 1: she could be somebody somebody else. And so on her
- 5:35Speaker 1: fourteenth birthday, Carrie Chrome signed a contract with the thirty
- 5:40Speaker 1: six year old Kim Foley. All Right, that is a
- 5:46Speaker 1: live excerpt from our upcoming episode on the Runaways. In
- 5:50Speaker 1: Kim Folly. The Runaways was, of course, jone Jet and
- 5:54Speaker 1: Leader Ford's first band. I mentioned jon Jet and leader
- 5:56Speaker 1: Ford by name because they went on to have prominent
- 5:59Speaker 1: careers after The Runaways. Now, covering the Runaways is something
- 6:03Speaker 1: that I've been planning on doing since I started Disgraced
- 6:05Speaker 1: Land back in twenty eighteen, but I always shied away
- 6:08Speaker 1: from it because of how dark the subject matter is,
- 6:11Speaker 1: and I kind of had this other idea, a fun
- 6:14Speaker 1: way to cover this story. I know people who knew
- 6:18Speaker 1: Kim Fowley, who worked with him, and I always got
- 6:21Speaker 1: this weird feedback that he was a vampire, and I
- 6:23Speaker 1: thought it would be funny to produce a show that
- 6:27Speaker 1: literally cast Kim Foley as some sort of actual, real
- 6:31Speaker 1: life Hollywood vampire. But the subject matter here is too real,
- 6:36Speaker 1: it's too raw, it's too fucked up that taking that
- 6:39Speaker 1: tone would have been a mistake. This is one of
- 6:42Speaker 1: the first all female rock groups of consequence, and because
- 6:46Speaker 1: of that alone, there's a lot to be celebrated in
- 6:48Speaker 1: this story. But there's a darkness here that is just gross.
- 6:52Speaker 1: It's not something that I necessarily wanted to have my
- 6:56Speaker 1: head submerged into during weeks of research. Oh I passed
- 7:01Speaker 1: it off to our colleagues, Zeth Lundy here and had
- 7:04Speaker 1: him do it. Zeth, you actually researched and wrote this story,
- 7:09Speaker 1: so give us a peek into the darkness. But first
- 7:11Speaker 1: of all, how you do, my man.
- 7:13Speaker 2: I'm doing great. I'm glad to be out of the
- 7:15Speaker 2: darkness and in the light with you right now, and
- 7:17Speaker 2: just looking at this slate of subjects we have coming
- 7:20Speaker 2: up this year. I'm just really excited for the stories
- 7:21Speaker 2: we're gonna tell.
- 7:22Speaker 1: Awesome. Yeah, I'm pumped too. I feel like this year
- 7:25Speaker 1: I made a conscious effort to really focus on female
- 7:30Speaker 1: artists as much as we can. And there's always been
- 7:33Speaker 1: this gender imbalance in our story episode subjects, because the
- 7:40Speaker 1: best stories that we tell are the ones that they're
- 7:46Speaker 1: reckoning stories, their stories about an artist behaving very badly
- 7:52Speaker 1: and doing a bunch of transgressive true crime, etc. Just
- 7:58Speaker 1: on balance for music history, there's not a lot of
- 8:01Speaker 1: women who fit that bill. There are some, and we've
- 8:03Speaker 1: covered them all, I think, or most of them, but
- 8:08Speaker 1: we kind of found a way to tell stories about
- 8:10Speaker 1: more female artists that are at least transgressive. They're involved
- 8:13Speaker 1: in transgressions, things have been happened, things have happened to them,
- 8:16Speaker 1: which gets us into the story, and it just allowed
- 8:19Speaker 1: us to kind of up the quantity of female artists
- 8:21Speaker 1: that we can cover. And you're definitely going to see
- 8:24Speaker 1: that in twenty twenty six. But back to the Runaway Zeth,
- 8:28Speaker 1: give me a one sentence description on this runaway story.
- 8:34Speaker 2: I think this is a story about the transformative power
- 8:37Speaker 2: of rock and roll, like how you can use it
- 8:39Speaker 2: to literally become somebody else, to escape the dullness of
- 8:42Speaker 2: everyday life. But it's also about the flip side of that,
- 8:45Speaker 2: the price that you have to pay for that kind
- 8:48Speaker 2: of escape, the manipulation and exploitation that is often at
- 8:51Speaker 2: the center of.
- 8:52Speaker 1: The music business. Like I said when I was seeing
- 8:55Speaker 1: this story up, there's a lot of exploitation. You just
- 8:58Speaker 1: mentioned exploitation, and we focused solely on that and the
- 9:03Speaker 1: grossness of it. And I'll just say, there's a quote
- 9:06Speaker 1: in this story from a writer not from Rolling Stone.
- 9:10Speaker 1: He goes on to be the editor of Rolling Stone.
- 9:12Speaker 1: They're real serious, dude. I'm not going to burn his
- 9:14Speaker 1: name here. And what he says in a review of
- 9:19Speaker 1: a live runaway show about the band is Honestly, if
- 9:25Speaker 1: I were writing this script for a Hollywood movie and
- 9:27Speaker 1: I turned in this quote to depict the schewe rock
- 9:31Speaker 1: guy from the nineteen seventies, it would get rejected because
- 9:34Speaker 1: it's too over the top. It's hard to believe that
- 9:37Speaker 1: it was even printed and it was printed by it
- 9:40Speaker 1: Was it printed by Cream at the times that or
- 9:42Speaker 1: was it printed by Crawdaddy. I think it was Crawdaddy.
- 9:45Speaker 1: Actually know that I say.
- 9:46Speaker 2: The even grosser thing, though, Jake, is that the more
- 9:49Speaker 2: you dig into the research on this, that wasn't like
- 9:52Speaker 2: an exception to the norm. That was like the that
- 9:56Speaker 2: rock critics wrote at the time, and the way that
- 9:59Speaker 2: women were were looked at and objectified, and it makes
- 10:02Speaker 2: it even skeasier that they were all underage.
- 10:04Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we haven't mentioned that yet, I don't think,
- 10:06Speaker 1: but you know, she was carry Chrome was fourteen years
- 10:09Speaker 1: old when this was going on, and the other members
- 10:10Speaker 1: of the band were like fifteen, sixteen, sixteen. Yeah, it
- 10:13Speaker 1: just just it's unbelievable. It's truly shocking. It's truly revealing
- 10:19Speaker 1: and revelatory and gross and just disgusting. So there's there's
- 10:23Speaker 1: that which is criminal enough, right, and when we get
- 10:27Speaker 1: into those crimes sex crimes, yep, but it's not the
- 10:31Speaker 1: whole story. Give me more of the true crime backstory
- 10:34Speaker 1: here to the Runways.
- 10:35Speaker 2: I mean, you touched on another aspect of it, the
- 10:38Speaker 2: in that reading from the script, which is this, you know,
- 10:41Speaker 2: the transgressive, slash like illegal nature of the scene that
- 10:45Speaker 2: they came out of, which was a scene where teenagers
- 10:47Speaker 2: were partying with adult rock stars at clubs in La
- 10:50Speaker 2: all the time, and then there's a there's a major
- 10:52Speaker 2: bust in England when the entire band is arrested and
- 10:56Speaker 2: thrown in jail, and then there's the life of crime
- 11:00Speaker 2: that one member of the Runaways was forced to live
- 11:02Speaker 2: later on when the band broke.
- 11:04Speaker 1: Up, which is really sad.
- 11:06Speaker 2: It is very sad because all she wanted was for
- 11:07Speaker 2: the band to continue on forever, Yeah, and for that
- 11:10Speaker 2: to be her thing, and then it was taken away
- 11:12Speaker 2: from her and she had a really hard time coping
- 11:14Speaker 2: with that.
- 11:14Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's a fucking bummer. We're sort of unintentional
- 11:19Speaker 1: music historians. We never really set out for this job,
- 11:25Speaker 1: and we come to these stories with a ton of knowledge,
- 11:30Speaker 1: both specific and general. And I knew the Runaway story loosely.
- 11:35Speaker 1: I'd never read a book on the Runaways. I never
- 11:37Speaker 1: I haven't seen the movie with.
- 11:40Speaker 2: I didn't watch it either.
- 11:41Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes it's good to not watch the biopics because
- 11:45Speaker 1: you don't want to fall in the same storytellingyway. But
- 11:47Speaker 1: I knew enough. I knew enough about the Runaways. I
- 11:50Speaker 1: knew a lot about the Runaways. But as is always
- 11:54Speaker 1: the case, we try on our episodes to dig revealing
- 11:58Speaker 1: facts out of the research that you guys might not
- 12:02Speaker 1: know even if you are music historians yourself or music fans.
- 12:06Speaker 1: So Zeth, give us. Give us one sort of like
- 12:08Speaker 1: truly revealing kind of Oh man, I didn't know that
- 12:12Speaker 1: fact or anecdote from this story.
- 12:14Speaker 2: This one's kind of funny actually, the fact that Robert
- 12:18Speaker 2: Plant of led Zeppelin was responsible for this arrest in England.
- 12:21Speaker 2: I mean it was responsible in a way. I won't
- 12:24Speaker 2: burn it here, but jone Jet definitely blamed him for
- 12:27Speaker 2: what happens, and you can hear all about that in the.
- 12:29Speaker 1: Episode, and you got to take the context. I'm not
- 12:32Speaker 1: going to burn the story here either, but the context
- 12:34Speaker 1: is super rich because the Runaways, you know, even though
- 12:37Speaker 1: they had a moment, there's still they're still an obscure band,
- 12:41Speaker 1: and they're paling around with Robert Plant, who's literally the
- 12:44Speaker 1: biggest rock star on the planet at the time. So
- 12:47Speaker 1: the sort of like fame and power imbalance here, and
- 12:51Speaker 1: to think that Robert Plant is responsible for what happens
- 12:54Speaker 1: to them in this situation is super annoying from jone
- 12:58Speaker 1: Jet's perspective. Absolutely all right, So check that out. That's
- 13:02Speaker 1: this Runaways episode is one of the first ones we're
- 13:04Speaker 1: gonna be releasing in twenty twenty six. I'm excited for
- 13:07Speaker 1: you guys to hear it. I'm excited for you to
- 13:10Speaker 1: hear all the episodes we're releasing. We're you know, kind
- 13:13Speaker 1: of looking at this seasonally, even though we're always on
- 13:17Speaker 1: so you know, seasonally, we're talking about I guess, you know,
- 13:21Speaker 1: ten twelve episodes per season. I don't even know what
- 13:24Speaker 1: season we're on right now. It's like at twenty seven
- 13:26Speaker 1: or something insane like that, something like that. Anyhow, we're
- 13:30Speaker 1: gonna get back with the rest of the episodes and
- 13:31Speaker 1: talk more about it and dive a little bit more
- 13:33Speaker 1: behind the scenes right after this. Okay, Zeth Lundy, If
- 13:58Speaker 1: I were to ask you which modern day female artists
- 14:02Speaker 1: is the subject of one of the most thatshit crazy
- 14:06Speaker 1: conspiracy theories that you could actually conjure up, which female
- 14:11Speaker 1: artist would you guess that was?
- 14:15Speaker 2: There's one in the upcoming mini episode of The Runaways.
- 14:19Speaker 2: The Runaways mini episode about jon Jet and a church
- 14:22Speaker 2: that worships her supposedly. But even better than that, maybe
- 14:26Speaker 2: that one about Beyonce and jay Z being like leaders
- 14:29Speaker 2: of the Illuminati. There's all kinds of hidden symbolism in
- 14:32Speaker 2: her work.
- 14:33Speaker 1: That's not a conspiracy theory, that's actually true.
- 14:36Speaker 2: So I'm glad we settled that here.
- 14:39Speaker 1: No need to even talk about that. I'm kidding, I'm kidding,
- 14:45Speaker 1: don't clip that. No, it's not Beyonce though, that is
- 14:48Speaker 1: crazy and that that would actually make for a good episode.
- 14:50Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
- 14:51Speaker 1: I have a hard time with conspiracy theorists who are
- 14:54Speaker 1: just like I have friends like this. There's obviously you
- 14:58Speaker 1: can't avoid these folks online who are just they're just
- 15:03Speaker 1: always diving deeper into whatever the fucking YouTube portal wormhole is,
- 15:12Speaker 1: but they're really like at most an inch deep on
- 15:17Speaker 1: the actual research. You know what I mean, Right, You
- 15:20Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Yeah, I do. One crazy source
- 15:23Speaker 1: does not make for a legitimate conspiracy theory. So on
- 15:28Speaker 1: the one hand, I'm super annoyed by that. On the
- 15:32Speaker 1: other hand, I'm equally annoyed by people who are just
- 15:36Speaker 1: like who won't entertain any conspiracies because the pattern from
- 15:42Speaker 1: history is so obvious that yesterday's conspiracies end up being
- 15:49Speaker 1: today's historical record. It's happened over and over again, and
- 15:53Speaker 1: I've talked about it so much so I'm not gonna
- 15:55Speaker 1: do more of that. So I have these like twin annoyances.
- 15:58Speaker 1: Right on the one hand, that can piracy theorists annoy
- 16:01Speaker 1: the ship out of me. On the other hand, the
- 16:03Speaker 1: people who just dismiss conspiracies annoy the ship out of me.
- 16:06Speaker 1: Almost even more so. Those people always more annoying to me. Yeah,
- 16:10Speaker 1: because it indicates a lack of curiosity, which to me
- 16:15Speaker 1: is is right up there with like one of the
- 16:18Speaker 1: most unattractive qualities a person can have is to just
- 16:21Speaker 1: be to not be curious. I can't stand that. It's
- 16:25Speaker 1: so boring. It's like, what are we gonna do? Just
- 16:27Speaker 1: make small talk at the fucking kids football game? Or
- 16:31Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, what are we doing?
- 16:32Speaker 1: I can't stand it. So okay, so hold on, I
- 16:36Speaker 1: have a point here. There's a middle. There is a
- 16:39Speaker 1: There is a middle that we don't explore enough where
- 16:46Speaker 1: we should be able to look at conspiracies objectively and
- 16:50Speaker 1: and try to pull apart whether or not they're true,
- 16:53Speaker 1: and damn the ship out of them if they're if
- 16:55Speaker 1: they're false, you know, and and to me, what is
- 16:58Speaker 1: more interesting than the than the getting piece of it?
- 17:00Speaker 1: Then the judgment piece of it. What's more interesting to
- 17:03Speaker 1: me is like, why do these conspiracy theories take root?
- 17:06Speaker 1: What is the root of it? Is it just for
- 17:08Speaker 1: clicks or is it based in some sort of uh,
- 17:12Speaker 1: some sort of cultural insecurity or fear or whatever. So
- 17:16Speaker 1: the why of the conspiracy, even if the conspiracy is false,
- 17:20Speaker 1: is as interesting to me, almost as interesting as if
- 17:24Speaker 1: the conspiracy were true. Okay, So that's where I'm coming
- 17:28Speaker 1: from with this story that we're going to do on
- 17:32Speaker 1: one of the biggest female artists in pop music history
- 17:37Speaker 1: who's still rocking right now. And my dog Dusty is
- 17:43Speaker 1: a big fan, as you can hear, she's a big
- 17:45Speaker 1: fan of Lady Gaga. All right, Okay, Okay, this conspiracy
- 17:52Speaker 1: theory is completely messed up. And again let's let's just
- 17:57Speaker 1: be super clear. I'm not saying that this conspiracy theory
- 18:00Speaker 1: about Lady Gaga is true. We're simply looking into the
- 18:03Speaker 1: theory in this episode. We're looking into why it's sprung out.
- 18:07Speaker 1: We're looking into what the backstory is. And the backstory
- 18:10Speaker 1: is incredible, and I'm a little shocked at how underreported
- 18:15Speaker 1: this story is. I think if Lady Gaga was like
- 18:18Speaker 1: twenty percent less famous, this would be a much bigger story.
- 18:22Speaker 2: Okay, but well, wait a minute, hold on, I don't
- 18:25Speaker 2: even know what this is all about. What's the story,
- 18:27Speaker 2: what's the theory here?
- 18:28Speaker 1: All right? Okay, all right, I don't even know where
- 18:31Speaker 1: to start.
- 18:32Speaker 2: You're like Joe Pesci and leath the Weapon three or two? Okay, okay, okay,
- 18:37Speaker 2: all right, all right, okay.
- 18:40Speaker 1: There have been online always these rumors about about Lady
- 18:44Speaker 1: Gaga's origin story, where she came from as an artist. Okay.
- 18:49Speaker 1: There's a woman named Yana Morgana, and she had a daughter,
- 18:53Speaker 1: Lena Morgana, and Lena was Lena Morgana was friends with
- 18:57Speaker 1: Lady Gaga back when Lady Gaga was starting out, and
- 19:01Speaker 1: Yata Morgana claims that Gaga stole her whole trip from
- 19:07Speaker 1: her daughter, Lena Morgana. Her Lady Gaga stole her musical style,
- 19:12Speaker 1: her fashion, basically her entire artistic persona. Is the claim,
- 19:18Speaker 1: not my claim, not my claim, to be clear, But
- 19:20Speaker 1: I'm interested in this claim because back in two thousand
- 19:23Speaker 1: and eight, at just nineteen years old, Lina Morgana killed
- 19:27Speaker 1: herself Lady Gaga's friend. Okay. Now, there are people who
- 19:33Speaker 1: don't believe that Lena Morgana killed herself. They actually believe
- 19:37Speaker 1: that Lady Gaga killed Lina Morgana, And to be clear,
- 19:42Speaker 1: I don't think that happened. I do not believe that,
- 19:47Speaker 1: but this story won't die. It's a Reddit circus. There's
- 19:52Speaker 1: a ton of wormholes. They're very big, and I'm fascinated. Again,
- 19:58Speaker 1: I don't believe Lady Gaga killed anybody, but I remain
- 20:01Speaker 1: open to the possibility that anything is possible, and I'm
- 20:04Speaker 1: going to dive into the subject and see where it
- 20:07Speaker 1: leads me. And we're either going to find out if
- 20:09Speaker 1: it's true. Again, I don't think we're going to find
- 20:12Speaker 1: out that it's true, right, or we're going to reveal
- 20:16Speaker 1: We're going to reveal why the conspiracy is a conspiracy
- 20:19Speaker 1: and where it came from, and the fascinating details around
- 20:21Speaker 1: the conspiracy are what's honestly most interesting to me. There
- 20:24Speaker 1: are some crazy similarities here and there are you know,
- 20:27Speaker 1: when you look at what these people are claiming, they're
- 20:30Speaker 1: actually not just it's not like this isn't like flat
- 20:33Speaker 1: earth stuff, you know, it's actually it's rooted in How
- 20:40Speaker 1: do I say this without sounding like a conspiracy theorist?
- 20:42Speaker 1: See this is difficult, which is in part why I
- 20:44Speaker 1: like it. The theory is rooted in some truths. Okay,
- 20:48Speaker 1: that does not mean that the theory is true. There's
- 20:50Speaker 1: two different things. And I want to objectively look at
- 20:54Speaker 1: this and find out why this type of theory could
- 20:58Speaker 1: even take root. And we're gonna do it all, of course,
- 21:02Speaker 1: by doing what we do while giving our own biographical
- 21:05Speaker 1: take on Lady Gaga as an artist. Lady Gaga is
- 21:08Speaker 1: fascinating to me. As an artist. There's a lot of
- 21:11Speaker 1: her music that I like. I don't consider myself a fan.
- 21:14Speaker 1: I'm not, but you know, I hear stuff now and
- 21:17Speaker 1: then I'm like, that's It's fucking great. As a person,
- 21:20Speaker 1: She's always interested me because she's incredibly talented beyond I
- 21:26Speaker 1: mean as an entertainer. You know what I'm saying. Oh yeah,
- 21:30Speaker 1: of course I don't like Barbara Streisand's music, But Barbara
- 21:34Speaker 1: Streisand comes on screen and I just go, oh shit, yeah,
- 21:38Speaker 1: I'm watching this. This is great. Yeah, you know what
- 21:41Speaker 1: I mean. And then I spend twenty minutes trying to
- 21:43Speaker 1: figure out if it's Barbara Streisan or Bette Midler because
- 21:45Speaker 1: I was confused to in my head you have to
- 21:50Speaker 1: think those things from when you're a kid, where you
- 21:52Speaker 1: just like you mix people up. You mix them up
- 21:54Speaker 1: when you're five years old, and you can't stop mixing
- 21:56Speaker 1: them up. Yeah, of course, of course I had a
- 21:58Speaker 1: theory when I was a little kid. I remember I
- 22:00Speaker 1: went to a new school in the fourth grade and
- 22:01Speaker 1: it was connected to this barberstriis In and Bette Midler thing.
- 22:05Speaker 1: I would group celebrities in my head. I would get
- 22:08Speaker 1: them confused because they were similar to me for whatever reason.
- 22:11Speaker 1: And then I went to this new school and I
- 22:12Speaker 1: started to notice that these these kids looked just like
- 22:16Speaker 1: kids at my old school. This is fourth grade, and
- 22:20Speaker 1: I started to think, like, maybe we're just like breeds
- 22:24Speaker 1: of dogs, you know, or maybe we're just like, you know,
- 22:27Speaker 1: we're all kind of like, you know, you get your
- 22:29Speaker 1: Boxers and get your Cocker Spaniels, and they're different dogs,
- 22:33Speaker 1: different people, they all kind of look alike, you know
- 22:35Speaker 1: what I mean, you know. And then it kind of
- 22:38Speaker 1: evolved into like, well maybe that's what are That's that's
- 22:41Speaker 1: you know what the supreme being who runs the algorithm
- 22:45Speaker 1: has created just little little cohorts of people who all
- 22:49Speaker 1: look the same and do the same thing anyhow, way
- 22:55Speaker 1: off track, I don't actually believe that. People, is that
- 22:58Speaker 1: this story that Gaga star reminds me of a couple
- 23:03Speaker 1: of our past episodes, like the Nirvana episode. You know,
- 23:07Speaker 1: talk about behind the scenes, it's the purpose of this
- 23:10Speaker 1: the Nirvana episode. When I went into the research, I
- 23:13Speaker 1: went into the research thinking, yeah, okay, there's a possibility
- 23:16Speaker 1: that the Soaked and Bleach stuff and Courtney Love had
- 23:20Speaker 1: something to do, which is you know, I was open
- 23:23Speaker 1: to it, right right, And then I did the research
- 23:27Speaker 1: and I was completely closed to it. It just didn't happen. People.
- 23:32Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I saw Soaked and Bleach. I've seen it.
- 23:35Speaker 1: We have we have, uh literally a dossier of supposedly
- 23:40Speaker 1: incriminating evidence on Courtney Love that isn't actually incriminating. There's
- 23:45Speaker 1: too there's too much. And every time I talk about
- 23:48Speaker 1: this it pisses people off and I get angry letters.
- 23:49Speaker 1: But I don't care. I believe it in my core.
- 23:51Speaker 1: I don't believe Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobaine, and and
- 23:54Speaker 1: if I did believe it, I would say it. But
- 23:56Speaker 1: the research doesn't point to that. And so I came
- 23:59Speaker 1: out of that episode just feeling like I felt. Now. Conversely,
- 24:03Speaker 1: I went into the Mamas and Papa's Charles Manson story
- 24:08Speaker 1: and yeah, I was I didn't believe that Charles Manson
- 24:13Speaker 1: was a CIA asset. And then I came out of
- 24:16Speaker 1: that research and I one hundred percent now believe that
- 24:20Speaker 1: Charles Manson was a CIA asset. I believe in the
- 24:23Speaker 1: MK ultra theory because the research supports it. That's what
- 24:27Speaker 1: I love about this job. You know, this is getting
- 24:32Speaker 1: to a new place in our thinking based on the facts. Zeth,
- 24:35Speaker 1: do you have examples of this from your research? I'm curious.
- 24:39Speaker 1: We never literally never asked you this question before, and
- 24:41Speaker 1: we talked, Sure you haven't every day?
- 24:43Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure you do. Let me know, Well,
- 24:46Speaker 2: the first one that comes to mind is certainly the
- 24:48Speaker 2: entire Wu Tang season that I researched and wrote. That
- 24:52Speaker 2: ten episode season I knew a little bit about. I
- 24:54Speaker 2: knew that the FBI had a file on them, just
- 24:56Speaker 2: like the FBI has files on so many other musicians
- 24:59Speaker 2: over here since the days of Jimmy Hendrix.
- 25:01Speaker 1: Right.
- 25:01Speaker 2: Yeah, but I was shocked first of all to find
- 25:04Speaker 2: out how deep it went that the FEDS were literally
- 25:06Speaker 2: classifying the WU Tang Clan as a what they call
- 25:10Speaker 2: a two point eighty one f which is a major
- 25:12Speaker 2: criminal organization like they were the mafia, right. And then
- 25:16Speaker 2: on top of that, there was this wild reporting from
- 25:18Speaker 2: the Village Voice about one of the group's members being
- 25:21Speaker 2: an FBI informant during that time. So obviously all that
- 25:25Speaker 2: was kind of turned what I knew about this whole
- 25:28Speaker 2: thing on its head, and it was incredible fodder for storytelling.
- 25:31Speaker 2: And then the second one that comes to mind would
- 25:33Speaker 2: be the one that I just recently researched and wrote,
- 25:36Speaker 2: which is about how Johnny Thunders died, which is coming
- 25:39Speaker 2: out next week.
- 25:41Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to get to that in just a second.
- 25:44Speaker 1: The Wu Tang thing, I don't want to make this political,
- 25:47Speaker 1: and I hope people don't take this as being political.
- 25:50Speaker 1: The file on Wu Tang Clan is it's ridiculous that
- 25:55Speaker 1: the government effort to surveil and watch Route clan is ridiculous,
- 26:02Speaker 1: was ridiculous. It's a giant waste of money. Even if
- 26:06Speaker 1: they were up to no good, it shouldn't have risen
- 26:08Speaker 1: it shouldn't have rose to the level of the federal government,
- 26:11Speaker 1: right And this, to me is just an example of
- 26:15Speaker 1: what happens when you have you have people in positions
- 26:18Speaker 1: of power who are just fucking bored and need something
- 26:21Speaker 1: to do. You know what I'm saying, Like like literally,
- 26:25Speaker 1: that's what this is. You know, Like how about at
- 26:27Speaker 1: the time, dude, like looking into I don't know the
- 26:30Speaker 1: ben Laden's there's some shit you might have, you know
- 26:32Speaker 1: what I mean. And it just strikes me as as
- 26:38Speaker 1: what happens when bureaucracy gets too fucking big and resources
- 26:43Speaker 1: are misallocated. Because it's not like people sitting around the time,
- 26:47Speaker 1: like the government is sitting around talking about conspiracy theories.
- 26:49Speaker 1: The federal government, the FBI is sitting around like going, oh,
- 26:51Speaker 1: let's get those hip hop guys. You know what I mean.
- 26:53Speaker 1: It's some person who's bored trying to make a name
- 26:55Speaker 1: for themselves, right. You know, well you shouldn't have that
- 26:58Speaker 1: person bored on payroll in the first place, and this
- 27:00Speaker 1: wouldn't happen. And it's just it continues to go on
- 27:03Speaker 1: and it's frustrating and aggravating, Unlike the Johnny Thunders story,
- 27:08Speaker 1: which we have coming up, which I think is the Yeah,
- 27:11Speaker 1: that's the first episode that's coming up next week, Yeah,
- 27:13Speaker 1: next week, and this one's connected to another, another myth.
- 27:17Speaker 1: I don't want to say conspiracy. I will say myth,
- 27:19Speaker 1: and we'll tell you about it in a second. Right
- 27:21Speaker 1: after this, we'll be right back after this. We're we're,
- 27:26Speaker 1: We're all right, Zeth Lundy, We are back and listen.
- 27:32Speaker 1: There's a large contingent of music history nerds like ourselves
- 27:35Speaker 1: who believe that Johnny Thunders from the New York Dolls
- 27:39Speaker 1: was murdered. That came out wrong. Music history nerds like
- 27:43Speaker 1: ourselves who believe that, not necessarily saying we believe that,
- 27:47Speaker 1: but we heard about this and we wanted to dig
- 27:50Speaker 1: into it, and we wanted to figure out, Okay, is
- 27:53Speaker 1: this true? Is this not true? So, without giving away
- 27:56Speaker 1: the whole story, what can you tell us about the
- 27:58Speaker 1: New York Dolls, Johnny Thunders and his death. That's number one,
- 28:00Speaker 1: Number two about your approach to writing this story.
- 28:04Speaker 2: Okay, So, Johnny Thunders was found dead in a hotel
- 28:07Speaker 2: room in New Orleans in nineteen ninety one. He was
- 28:09Speaker 2: thirty eight. He struggled with addiction his whole life. So
- 28:13Speaker 2: the cops basically took one look at the scene and
- 28:15Speaker 2: said dead junkie. Case closed. But there were all these
- 28:19Speaker 2: other factors surrounding the last day and night of his life,
- 28:22Speaker 2: like he had literally just flown into town. I think
- 28:24Speaker 2: he was in Europe or Asia before that touring. He
- 28:27Speaker 2: flew into town that day. He met some local people
- 28:30Speaker 2: that he didn't know. They went out, they partied. Some
- 28:33Speaker 2: weird shit happened before and after his body was found.
- 28:36Speaker 2: And because of this, and because the cops refused to
- 28:40Speaker 2: look into any of this weird shit, people like Dede Ramone,
- 28:44Speaker 2: who knew Johnny Well, began disseminating this counter narrative that
- 28:47Speaker 2: he was didn't overdose, but that he was in fact
- 28:50Speaker 2: murdered and the cops needed to look into this. And
- 28:52Speaker 2: so I went into the research like excited to dig
- 28:55Speaker 2: into this counter narrative because there's a lot of stuff
- 28:58Speaker 2: out there about it from legit legit sourcing. So that's
- 29:02Speaker 2: how I ended up writing this as I wrote it
- 29:04Speaker 2: from the perspective that this counter narrative, this theory could
- 29:09Speaker 2: be valid, And of course the fun part is how
- 29:12Speaker 2: where it goes and how it ends, which is totally surprising,
- 29:15Speaker 2: I think, and I think the listeners are really digging.
- 29:17Speaker 1: Yeah, this is one of the stories reminded me of
- 29:20Speaker 1: a little bit of the sit in Nancy story where
- 29:21Speaker 1: there was always this sort of like burbling in the
- 29:24Speaker 1: scene about what actually happened and who was responsible and
- 29:28Speaker 1: it wasn't really documented, and I thought, oh, this is
- 29:32Speaker 1: similar again. I don't want to burn it here, but
- 29:35Speaker 1: it's it's fascinating. Johnny Thunders is just quite literally the
- 29:39Speaker 1: most rock and roll guy of all time, and the
- 29:42Speaker 1: myth around his death he should have a myth surrounding
- 29:45Speaker 1: his death, for sure, shoul. So we're going to get
- 29:49Speaker 1: into that, and it's hard to talk about here without burning.
- 29:51Speaker 1: And one thing, a little more behind the scenes thing
- 29:54Speaker 1: that I'm storygling with with this episode is what we're
- 29:56Speaker 1: going to do with the music. Because when we talk
- 30:02Speaker 1: about punk artists or metal artists, or even rock or
- 30:07Speaker 1: hard rock, there's a tendency and I learned this in
- 30:09Speaker 1: the Guns N' Roses episode production to you know, use
- 30:14Speaker 1: music that is that that sounds similar to what the
- 30:18Speaker 1: artist was making. And for whatever reason, heavy music or
- 30:22Speaker 1: at least like yeah, just just heavy guitar oriented music
- 30:26Speaker 1: does not sound good in our production with vo it
- 30:31Speaker 1: just doesn't work. Whereas electronic music, hip hop music, dominated beat,
- 30:36Speaker 1: beat type music sounds fantastic. So it's like, like, we guys,
- 30:41Speaker 1: we always try to do this thing where, you know,
- 30:44Speaker 1: we've learned our lesson where we take the artists that
- 30:47Speaker 1: we're talking about and we try to put them through
- 30:50Speaker 1: the Massive Attack machine, which is, you know, okay, take So,
- 30:54Speaker 1: so take the right way to score a Metallica episode
- 30:58Speaker 1: is not to try to make music that sounds like Metallica.
- 31:01Speaker 1: It's to take Metallica's influence and run it through the
- 31:05Speaker 1: influence of Massive Attack. To always Massive Attack, because Massive
- 31:10Speaker 1: Attack has this like super vibey electronic menace to it
- 31:16Speaker 1: and it's just served us well. So there's no way
- 31:20Speaker 1: we can make New York Dolls Johnny Thunder's style music work.
- 31:25Speaker 1: And you know, I had this idea, like we should
- 31:28Speaker 1: do something. You know, we've already kind of taken the
- 31:31Speaker 1: New York Dolls music and run it through the Massive
- 31:32Speaker 1: Attack thing in the New York Dolls episode. This is
- 31:36Speaker 1: going to be part two. Johnny Thunders so thinking we
- 31:39Speaker 1: should take New Orleans music because Johnny Thunders dies in
- 31:42Speaker 1: New Orleans.
- 31:43Speaker 2: Yea, we should take like, you know, he wanted to
- 31:45Speaker 2: make a New Orleans record too.
- 31:47Speaker 1: He wanted to take a make a New Orleans record
- 31:49Speaker 1: to take you alentusson Doctor John that kind of New
- 31:52Speaker 1: Orleans vibe and treat it with that menacing, massive attack
- 31:56Speaker 1: thing for this for this episode, I think that could
- 31:59Speaker 1: be cool, right, yeah for sure? Yeah, all right, well man,
- 32:02Speaker 1: we'll fuck with that somehow. Or we could just use
- 32:05Speaker 1: Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers sound of music and pissed
- 32:08Speaker 1: Johnny Thunders off.
- 32:10Speaker 2: People will get that joke when they hear the episode.
- 32:12Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, there's a heavy Tom Petty five and the
- 32:15Speaker 1: Johnny thunders episode. That's not good all right.
- 32:18Speaker 2: Uh.
- 32:19Speaker 1: Murder is at the heart of all the episodes that
- 32:22Speaker 1: we've discussed so far. One of the most requested episodes
- 32:27Speaker 1: we've had since the show started was to do something
- 32:30Speaker 1: on MIAs A Patta from the gets. I've alwayshed away
- 32:33Speaker 1: from this story, similar to the Runaway story for a
- 32:36Speaker 1: bunch of different reasons. We decided this year was the
- 32:40Speaker 1: year we're going to tell the Miya Zapata story. Now, guys,
- 32:44Speaker 1: what often happens is Beth and I aren't being lazy.
- 32:47Speaker 1: We'll have editorial meetings around each episode where we'll get
- 32:51Speaker 1: together and talk about, uh, you know what we know
- 32:55Speaker 1: just you know, without any research, what we know of
- 32:56Speaker 1: the artists, what we know of the crime, certain themes
- 33:01Speaker 1: we might want to explore, things we know we want mentioned,
- 33:05Speaker 1: and then we'll go off into the research and we'll
- 33:08Speaker 1: pull it all together. And we used to meet after
- 33:10Speaker 1: the research before recording. We don't even really do that anymore.
- 33:12Speaker 1: We're just kind of we got it so dialed in.
- 33:15Speaker 1: We haven't yet had that meeting on me as a
- 33:17Speaker 1: PATA in the Gifts, and we figured that we'll do
- 33:20Speaker 1: some of the editorial work, behind the scenes work here
- 33:22Speaker 1: for you guys. Zesth. So you know we're going to
- 33:25Speaker 1: have to do a call about this this week. And
- 33:26Speaker 1: I said, no, wait, let's don't burn it. Let's do it.
- 33:29Speaker 1: Let's do it when we tape this thing. So give
- 33:31Speaker 1: me your questions on me as a Potter. We'll try
- 33:33Speaker 1: to work our way through this real quick.
- 33:35Speaker 2: Well, this is I'm just going to brain dump what
- 33:36Speaker 2: I'm thinking here based on the research I've done. There's
- 33:38Speaker 2: an obvious way to tell the story, right, and that's
- 33:41Speaker 2: with me as a pod is brutal, shocking murder. You
- 33:44Speaker 2: know what happened right after Stephanie Sargent of seven year
- 33:47Speaker 2: Bitch died and then right before Kurt Cobain. But in
- 33:50Speaker 2: a way it has this the bigger ripple effect in
- 33:54Speaker 2: the nucleus of that music scene, the indie scene in Seattle.
- 33:58Speaker 2: First of all, it tragically happened ray after the Gets
- 34:01Speaker 2: went down to La met with Atlantic Records, and Atlantic
- 34:04Speaker 2: was basically like, we're going to give you guys a deal.
- 34:06Speaker 2: And then in the wake of this, a lot of
- 34:08Speaker 2: bands in their circle broke up. There was a lot
- 34:11Speaker 2: of paranoia and suspicion because all these guys in their
- 34:15Speaker 2: in their crews and their bands were being brought in
- 34:17Speaker 2: by the cops for questioning.
- 34:19Speaker 1: Like, yeah, the investigation focused on her friends at first,
- 34:23Speaker 1: who are all musicians in the Seattle music scene or
- 34:25Speaker 1: connected to the Seattle music scene. That they weren't musicians.
- 34:28Speaker 1: And it should be mentioned this is nineteen ninety three,
- 34:29Speaker 1: this is the height of the grunge explosion, and me
- 34:33Speaker 1: as a potter from the Gets was not like any
- 34:34Speaker 1: just any old band. They were like a real band
- 34:37Speaker 1: in the scene. They were friends with you know, Soundguard
- 34:39Speaker 1: and mud Honey, Yes, all those folks. So it's you know,
- 34:43Speaker 1: that's the backdrop here.
- 34:44Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for that. Context, and so I think
- 34:46Speaker 2: everyone kind of thought that it was somebody that they knew.
- 34:48Speaker 2: And then when the murderer was I mean the murder
- 34:50Speaker 2: was was wasn't caught for like ten years, and so
- 34:53Speaker 2: when he finally was, it took everybody by surprise because
- 34:56Speaker 2: they figured it was someone that that that MEA had known,
- 34:59Speaker 2: someone that they all new. And there's this random dude
- 35:01Speaker 2: who like split for Florida after it happened. This takes
- 35:04Speaker 2: place in the very early years of DNA helping to
- 35:06Speaker 2: solve a crime.
- 35:07Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 35:09Speaker 2: Yeah, I was taken at the crime scene, stored for
- 35:10Speaker 2: years until it was able to be analyzed and added
- 35:13Speaker 2: to the FBIS database. Now that all said, the other
- 35:17Speaker 2: thing I wanted to point out Jake was that the
- 35:19Speaker 2: drummer for the band for the Gets, Steve Moriarty. He
- 35:23Speaker 2: just published a new book recently about the band and
- 35:25Speaker 2: about Mia, and his primary motivation was that he was
- 35:28Speaker 2: sick of hearing about MIA's murder. He was sick of
- 35:31Speaker 2: having the tabloid nature of the crime overshadow the excellence
- 35:35Speaker 2: of the group and Mia herself, and so he barely
- 35:38Speaker 2: even touches on the murder in the book. It's more
- 35:40Speaker 2: about her and about them, And so I think what
- 35:43Speaker 2: I want to do with this episode, and that's this
- 35:45Speaker 2: is what I want to talk to you about, is
- 35:47Speaker 2: strike this balance between what is our bread and butter here,
- 35:50Speaker 2: which is music and true crime, but also do it
- 35:52Speaker 2: in a way that we're not sensationalizing it and that
- 35:54Speaker 2: we're truly memorializing her for who she was. You know,
- 35:57Speaker 2: so if like any of the guys in the gets
- 35:59Speaker 2: happened to hear this episode, they would be like, oh, yeah,
- 36:01Speaker 2: like these guys got it, they got it right.
- 36:03Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Because there is a documentary on her and
- 36:06Speaker 1: there's like, you know, three of those sort of like
- 36:08Speaker 1: you know, forty eight hours TV true crime things id TV,
- 36:14Speaker 1: and I don't want to do anything like any of that.
- 36:17Speaker 1: And I haven't seen the doc. You have seen the
- 36:21Speaker 1: doc cause so you know, we need our own point
- 36:23Speaker 1: of view on this that I want to take. And
- 36:27Speaker 1: she's a fascinating character and I'm sure this will be
- 36:29Speaker 1: in the book you're talking about because she was kind
- 36:32Speaker 1: of like a double kid. She was a rich kid
- 36:34Speaker 1: who or you know, at least you know, very upper
- 36:37Speaker 1: middle class who grew up in that world of you know,
- 36:40Speaker 1: tennis clubs, and whatever, and then.
- 36:42Speaker 2: Her mom was like a TV high ranking TV executive
- 36:45Speaker 2: who lived in like a penthouse apartment overlooking Central Park.
- 36:48Speaker 1: I think, yeah. And then she ends up going to
- 36:50Speaker 1: Seattle and lives sort of the I don't want to
- 36:53Speaker 1: say grunge lifestyle, but the rock and roll kind of
- 36:57Speaker 1: like like she lived it. I mean it was real. Yeah,
- 37:00Speaker 1: and there's a you know, people will be like, oh,
- 37:02Speaker 1: you're faking it or that's bullshit, that's you know, people
- 37:04Speaker 1: are who they are. It doesn't matter where they come from, right,
- 37:07Speaker 1: you could be whoever the fuck you want. And I
- 37:09Speaker 1: mean that's the point of this Runaways episode too. But
- 37:13Speaker 1: there's an interesting psychology there which would be cool to
- 37:16Speaker 1: crack into, ye and to treat the rape and the
- 37:20Speaker 1: murder with the sensitivity that it deserves. There's some really
- 37:26Speaker 1: interesting things, guys. So normally when we would do this,
- 37:28Speaker 1: I would point out to Zeth, like, Okay, here's some
- 37:30Speaker 1: things that I know about this that I want represented
- 37:32Speaker 1: in this if I'm not writing it. The medical examiner.
- 37:36Speaker 1: So when she was killed, she was so badly abused
- 37:42Speaker 1: that in just the body, they didn't know who she was.
- 37:47Speaker 1: And it took a couple of days and the medical
- 37:49Speaker 1: examiner was a fan of the gets and that's how
- 37:55Speaker 1: the body was recognized. Like he actually was like, oh,
- 37:59Speaker 1: it was somebody who worked in the medical examiner's office.
- 38:01Speaker 1: If I remember incorrectly, he was like, oh, oh god,
- 38:04Speaker 1: I know who this is.
- 38:06Speaker 2: Oh I didn't haven't even turned that up in my
- 38:08Speaker 2: research yet. That's fascinating. I'd look into that.
- 38:10Speaker 1: I think that's a scene for sure. Maybe it opens
- 38:13Speaker 1: with something like that, and there's just there has to
- 38:16Speaker 1: be something like the theme. I don't know what themes
- 38:18Speaker 1: we're going to get into, but it could be the
- 38:20Speaker 1: theme or just a sub theme of the community rallying
- 38:24Speaker 1: around her afterward. Because they did, they raised their own money,
- 38:30Speaker 1: they hired a private investigator. I'm sure all that is covered,
- 38:33Speaker 1: you know, ad nauseum, because it's obvious, but it needs
- 38:35Speaker 1: to be mentioned. And then the other thing is I
- 38:40Speaker 1: think sonically, what I want to do with it. They say.
- 38:43Speaker 1: What I've read anyways, is that she was walking down
- 38:46Speaker 1: the street like two am before she was attacked, and
- 38:48Speaker 1: she didn't hear the killer coming because she had headphones on,
- 38:53Speaker 1: and that's how the killer was able to get the
- 38:54Speaker 1: drop on her. I think it would be cool if
- 38:58Speaker 1: we do something in this episode where remember remember like
- 39:03Speaker 1: old school sony headphones, like the little orange you know,
- 39:06Speaker 1: cushiony things, and it's it doesn't seem to happen anymore
- 39:11Speaker 1: with earbuds, but back then you could really hear when
- 39:14Speaker 1: somebody was like pumping music. You know, if you're somebody's
- 39:16Speaker 1: walking by these headphones, you could like hear them. You
- 39:18Speaker 1: hear the bleed. We should do that in sonically, like
- 39:22Speaker 1: make that audio device part of the score is that
- 39:27Speaker 1: that headphone bleed and try to do like a hitchcocky
- 39:31Speaker 1: and thing with that during the during the the lead
- 39:35Speaker 1: up to the death. And I don't want to dramatize
- 39:40Speaker 1: the death beyond that. I really I think your instincts
- 39:45Speaker 1: are den on. We want to we want to make
- 39:47Speaker 1: the spot her yep, yep. All right, so that's gonna
- 39:50Speaker 1: be the me is a PoTA episode.
- 39:52Speaker 2: Great, that's that's all great for me to go on.
- 39:54Speaker 1: Perfect, all right, dope, guys, if you have any other
- 39:57Speaker 1: thoughts on how we should treat this gets episode, get
- 40:00Speaker 1: at us because we get a little time before we
- 40:01Speaker 1: get into the production and let us know six one
- 40:04Speaker 1: seven nine oh six six six three eight voicemail and
- 40:06Speaker 1: text at Disgrace Lamppod on the socials or Disgrace Lampod
- 40:10Speaker 1: at gmail dot com on email. We'd love your input
- 40:12Speaker 1: and we'd love to include some of it if it's
- 40:14Speaker 1: if it's relevant, makes sense for the story we decide
- 40:16Speaker 1: we want to tell. All right, we're gonna take a
- 40:18Speaker 1: quick break back right for this. All right, guys, we
- 40:40Speaker 1: are back. Thanks for hanging with us in this sort
- 40:42Speaker 1: of I know behind the scenes look at disgrace Land,
- 40:44Speaker 1: I don't know what we're calling this, but that sounds
- 40:46Speaker 1: good enough to me. I meant to get at us
- 40:49Speaker 1: with any thoughts you have on any of these episodes
- 40:51Speaker 1: as we're in pre production, if you want to lend
- 40:54Speaker 1: your voice and lend your take, happy to hear it.
- 40:58Speaker 1: In addition to the Runaways, Lady, Johnny Thunders, and Mia Zapata,
- 41:03Speaker 1: next season, we're also releasing episodes on Hunter S. Thompson,
- 41:06Speaker 1: which will be our last public release of a non
- 41:11Speaker 1: music subject in Disgraceland. That experiment will officially be over.
- 41:16Speaker 1: We're going to do a second episode on Inexcess because
- 41:20Speaker 1: there's this way more there that we need to tell.
- 41:22Speaker 1: Chrissy Hine from the Pretenders and Pete Dhugherty from The
- 41:26Speaker 1: Libertines that those are all coming up in this next
- 41:29Speaker 1: season of Disgrace. And finally we have this new concept
- 41:32Speaker 1: that we're going to try out in Disgraceland as well
- 41:34Speaker 1: this year. I've long been obsessed with murder ballads. You
- 41:38Speaker 1: guys who know me, you know this, and I wanted
- 41:41Speaker 1: to do this show forever, and we're going to look
- 41:45Speaker 1: at one. It's a slightly askew look at music and
- 41:50Speaker 1: true crime. It's not from the perspective necessarily of the artist,
- 41:54Speaker 1: but it's from the perspective of the song. And much
- 41:57Speaker 1: like we did in the Derek and the Dominoes episode
- 41:59Speaker 1: with the Law and Family murder, we're going to look
- 42:02Speaker 1: at in these, you know, at least one Disgraceland episode
- 42:06Speaker 1: per month or so, we will look at one song
- 42:10Speaker 1: that was either inspired by our true crime or inspired
- 42:14Speaker 1: a true crime, and we'll look at the killer connected
- 42:18Speaker 1: to that. So I think Talking Heads in the Son
- 42:20Speaker 1: of Sam or Cookeye Billy Cook and Jim Morrison, or
- 42:27Speaker 1: Charles Manson and Helter Skelter. We probably won't do that
- 42:29Speaker 1: because we've done a lot of Manson content, but just
- 42:31Speaker 1: there's this is endless fodder. This is unofficially being called
- 42:35Speaker 1: dead notes, and these these will be like special features
- 42:39Speaker 1: in Disgraceland that you guys are gonna get. All right, guys, listen,
- 42:42Speaker 1: get us your subjects that you want us to cover
- 42:44Speaker 1: six one seven nine oh six six six three eight
- 42:47Speaker 1: voicemail texts at Gracelandpod on the social disgracelandpod at gmail
- 42:51Speaker 1: dot com. Email let us know which artists you want
- 42:54Speaker 1: us to cover. You guys are good at it, even
- 42:55Speaker 1: doing it forever, keep doing it and we'll talk more
- 42:59Speaker 1: about it in here. Also doing this thing over in Patreon,
- 43:01Speaker 1: which if you're part of our ten dollars tier, you're
- 43:04Speaker 1: going to in addition to getting this film should be
- 43:06Speaker 1: played loud our new video podcast every month, you're also
- 43:11Speaker 1: going to gain access to service these special twice yearly
- 43:16Speaker 1: roundtables where we get on a zoom together and we
- 43:20Speaker 1: formally discuss which episodes we're going to cover and we
- 43:24Speaker 1: choose them, select them or select a large handful of them,
- 43:28Speaker 1: so that way you will have you'll be guaranteed to
- 43:30Speaker 1: have direct influence on the show, and some of that
- 43:34Speaker 1: we'll take some of that content we create in during
- 43:36Speaker 1: that process, and some of it will be reflected in
- 43:39Speaker 1: these in these behind the scenes episodes that we're rolling
- 43:42Speaker 1: out for you guys. So that's another way for you
- 43:44Speaker 1: to be involved. Appreciate the involvement. Love the community we
- 43:47Speaker 1: have guys. Thank you so much, Zeth. Thanks for your time, man.
- 43:50Speaker 1: I know it's a busy time of year. Appreciate you
- 43:52Speaker 1: digging in time. Guys. Thank you so much again. Thanks
- 43:56Speaker 1: for supporting us on Patreon, on Apple Podcasts, just being
- 43:59Speaker 1: fans of the show. Love you guys. Have a great
- 44:01Speaker 1: day talk So all right, guys, thanks for rolling with
- 44:23Speaker 1: us on a special episode of Disgraceland. Question of the
- 44:27Speaker 1: Week this week is obvious What artists, which subjects do
- 44:30Speaker 1: you want us to cover next? Get at a six
- 44:33Speaker 1: one seven nine oh six six sixty three eight, voicemail
- 44:35Speaker 1: and text. We'll dive deep into it in this week's
- 44:38Speaker 1: after party. Get into some specifics, guys. If you're listening
- 44:42Speaker 1: on Apple podcasts, make sure you have auto downloads turned on.
- 44:45Speaker 1: Six one seven nine oh six six six three eight,
- 44:48Speaker 1: voicemail texts at disgracelam pod on the socials. Here comes
- 44:52Speaker 1: from credits. Disgraceland was created by Yours Truly and is
- 44:58Speaker 1: produced in partnership with bub Elvis. Credits for this episode
- 45:02Speaker 1: can be found on the show notes page at disgracelampod
- 45:05Speaker 1: dot com. Rate and review the show and follow us
- 45:07Speaker 1: on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, and Facebook at disgracelampod and on
- 45:11Speaker 1: YouTube at YouTube dot com slash at disgracelampod, Rock a
- 45:16Speaker 1: Roller He the bed Down Man.