Latest / Japanese America / S3E7: Kidnapped from Peru – The Naganuma Story & the Fight for JLA Redress

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S3E7: Kidnapped from Peru – The Naganuma Story & the Fight for JLA Redress · Japanese America

• 0:00
  I prefer cars or Cozumel.
• 0:02
  Yeah. Um, it's more so now today than ever before.
• 0:08
  And it really started with the March pilgrimage in particular.
• 0:13
  That one started to tell me, um, it's important to let people know what my real name is. So when I applied for the U.S., U.S. citizenship, uh, my driver's license, my social security card, all that is Cozumel. Who you are?
• 0:35
  Naganuma.
• 0:38
  So it's like reclaiming your your original name?
• 0:42
  That's correct. You know, that's who I am.
• 0:45
  Um, and I'm proud of it.
• 1:13
  Welcome back to Japanese America.
• 1:14
  We are stepping into season three, episode seven, and we're diving directly into one of the most monumental, legally complex and deeply emotional chapters in our community's history the fight for Japanese American redress.
• 1:25
  That's right. When most people think of redress in the landmark Civil Liberties Act of 1988, they think of that 120,000 Japanese Americans who were forced into concentration camps on U.S. soil. But there is a massive parallel story of international kidnapping and legal limbo that took decades to bring to light.
• 1:48
  The voice you just heard at the top of the show belongs to Kazumu Julio Cesar Naganuma.
• 1:54
  Born in Peru, his family lives were completely upended when the FBI orchestrated a mass deportation of Japanese Latin Americans during World War two.
• 2:02
  Today, we are weaving together the rare, deeply personal oral histories of the three Naganuma brothers, Jimmy, George and Kazuma, together their stories reveal the global scale of wartime injustice, the trauma of living behind barbed wire as infants and children, and the grueling, multi-decade battle to make the United States government take accountability.
• 2:27
  Now, Michele, because you grew up in Japan, the legacy of redress and the 1988 signed apology isn't something that was talked about in your household at all. But for me, the history hits remarkably close to home.
• 2:36
  My own family was incarcerated right there at Crystal city, Texas, too.
• 2:40
  I didn't know your family went to Crystal city, Texas.
• 2:43
  Yeah. My, um, my grandfather, he was working for the Japanese consulate, and he asked to, uh, he asked for, uh, to give up his citizenship.
• 2:53
  And so when he, when he did that, he, uh, they were no longer Americans.
• 2:56
  And so they were sent to Crystal city, which is for, uh, enemy prisoners. So what's what's ironic about Crystal city actually compared to like the Manzanar or those kind of camps was that they were under the Geneva Conventions.
• 3:08
  So my aunt remembers in Crystal city being treated much better.
• 3:12
  But, um, but for redress in my family, I remember my dad was, it was really, really meaningful when he got the apology.
• 3:18
  And it was kind of the first time that my dad talked about the camps.
• 3:21
  And I remember it meaning a lot to him.
• 3:23
  And we used the, uh, the money to, I think, put a down payment on our house.
• 3:28
  And also my dad got me a Dodgers jacket.
• 3:30
  So those were, those were the two things that were really meaningful to me.
• 3:33
  I, um, researched and this is the one of the few camps that had a swimming pool.
• 3:39
  Yes.
• 3:40
  Built by Italian guy.
• 3:43
  Oh, really?
• 3:44
  An Italian, uh, Italian.
• 3:47
  Latin.
• 3:48
  Oh, really? I didn't know that.
• 3:49
  Engineers.
• 3:50
  My aunt remembers the swimming pool.
• 3:52
  That's the only thing she remembered.
• 3:54
  There's a picture online, and it looks huge, but it was made from a swamp, so I don't know if that was like a nice swimming pool like. Yeah.
• 4:06
  And I think two Japanese girls drowned.
• 4:09
  Oh, no.
• 4:10
  The pool. I know that's sad.
• 4:12
  That's sad. Yeah, I probably would imagine it's not very clean pool, but it's probably better than, you know, not having a pool. Maybe.
• 4:19
  Uh.
• 4:19
  Yeah. Because, uh, even then, even before global warming, the average summer temperature was 99 degrees in Crystal city, Texas. So, uh, yeah.
• 4:30
  That's like a sauna. Then you're taking a bath in like a, you're taking a, you're going to the pool in the Jacuzzi or something.
• 4:35
  Yeah, yeah. So, uh, gosh, that's that sounds pool sounds nice, but it's not as nice as it sounds.
• 4:42
  I don't think.
• 4:43
  I remember, um, when my dad got his apology letter, he, he just put it away in some kind of file.
• 4:49
  So I remember after my dad passed away, I spent a day going through all his paperwork and all the things in our garage, and our garage was a nightmare. There's so much crap in there and I was looking for two things.
• 5:00
  I was looking one for the apology letter and two my.
• 5:03
  Everyone said my dad was a painter when he was young, and I'd never seen any of his paint paintings.
• 5:08
  So I spent an entire summer day looking through every single thing, looking for those two things.
• 5:13
  And by the end, I found both.
• 5:15
  And I was lucky because now when I work at my home, there's the apology letter is right above my computer.
• 5:23
  So I remember that, uh, you know, I remember the apology and what it meant to my somebody like my father.
• 5:29
  And what did he paint about?
• 5:30
  My dad was an architect, so he was kind of a artist.
• 5:33
  And he, uh, yeah, he painted a lot of like, random things like houses and fruit.
• 5:39
  And I mean, it wasn't like, you know, he wasn't doing like abstract stuff, but, uh, but it was really meaningful.
• 5:42
  And I remember I got it all framed and, you know, now if you ever go to my house in the, uh, everything but my office, it's all his paintings all over the house, and they're really, really meaningful for me.
• 5:53
  All right. No matter how quiet some of the older generations were, the historic record speaks loud and clear.
• 6:00
  Let's start with the Naganuma family's journey, and how a thriving life in Peru was suddenly shattered by international politics.
• 6:07
  In the 1930s. Peru was home to a vibrant Japanese community.
• 6:12
  The Naganuma family ran a highly successful laundry business in Callao, and their father was a prominent, respected community leader.
• 6:21
  But after Pearl Harbor, the United States government pressured Latin American countries to round up Japanese residents.
• 6:26
  The goal should use them as hostages in international prisoner exchanges with Japan.
• 6:30
  Jimmy remembers the thriving life they had in Peru before everything changed.
• 6:34
  Um had a pet dog named Duke.
• 6:40
  Uh, now I'm looking further inside the backyard.
• 6:45
  Uh, a nice garden with a pond for the fish.
• 6:53
  Uh. Another thing was the dance hall that my father would entertain all these people from Japan.
• 7:04
  So this was in your house?
• 7:05
  Yeah. In the back? Yeah.
• 7:07
  There would be special dance hall.
• 7:10
  So tell me about that. So your father would entertain when people from Japan?
• 7:14
  Yeah, because he was getting all the business from the Japanese.
• 7:21
  Uh, sailors.
• 7:22
  The FBI targeted their father because of his prominent role in the community.
• 7:27
  The family was rounded up, stripped of their belongings, and forced onto a transport ship bound for the United States.
• 7:35
  George Naganuma was just a young child on that ship.
• 7:38
  But he vividly remembers the military guard stationed above them.
• 7:44
  How about the the ship ride from, um, Peru to the United States?
• 7:53
  Do you remember any of that?
• 7:55
  Yeah, I remember not boarding the ship.
• 7:59
  I remember being in the ship, in the room that we were in.
• 8:06
  I mean, this was there were seven of us in one room.
• 8:10
  I remember that, and we were all seasick.
• 8:14
  You know, it was terrible, I'm sure.
• 8:17
  And, uh, I remember roaming around the ship.
• 8:23
  And kind of was able to peek outside, and I could see the, uh, the soldier standing guard with, uh, you know, rifle or whatever he had on his shoulder.
• 8:43
  And.
• 8:45
  That's interesting. I was thinking a soldier with a rifle.
• 8:49
  Huh?
• 8:49
  You're on a ship. I wonder what would they what were they doing?
• 8:53
  Were they worried that you would, uh, uh, go places you weren't?
• 9:00
  I'm trying to think where you would go and why they would have that. Or maybe it's to keep the men in a certain area, because I know they kept the men away from.
• 9:08
  Oh, yeah. They separated my father and the oldest brother.
• 9:12
  Yeah. So maybe that makes sense to kind of keep them under guard.
• 9:16
  Yeah. So they went so they couldn't roam.
• 9:19
  Right, right, right.
• 9:20
  When the ship finally docked in New Orleans, the family was subjected to immediate, humiliating medical clearance procedures before being loaded onto trains bound for the Texas desert. Jimmy recalls the shocking moments they were forced off the ship.
• 9:33
  So we landed in New Orleans, Louisiana.
• 9:39
  Uh, we got off and right away they used DDT, fumigated everybody.
• 9:49
  So do you remember that?
• 9:50
  Oh, yeah.
• 9:51
  So tell me about that. So they took everyone off.
• 9:53
  And they got off and right away they.
• 9:56
  They strip you naked. Everybody.
• 10:00
  They would spray DDT.
• 10:04
  And so they did this by with your whole family all together.
• 10:07
  So you and your sisters and mother.
• 10:09
  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
• 10:12
  That must have been, I think maybe even, um, very difficult for your mother.
• 10:18
  Oh, yeah. Oh, that is for my sister and my mother.
• 10:23
  Yeah, well, we're all small, so.
• 10:25
  That was awful. Like they stripped him.
• 10:28
  They stripped him down, like, all naked and put poured DDT over them like. Wow, that's so inhumane.
• 10:37
  That sounds terrible.
• 10:37
  Yeah. And baby 20 month old baby.
• 10:40
  Yeah. That was crazy. Especially because their children, to their babies.
• 10:44
  They were sent directly to the Department of Justice in internment camp in Crystal city, Texas, for Kazuma, who was brought into the camp as a 20 month old infant growing up inside a barbed wire compound, meant his very identity was shaped under guard.
• 11:01
  Tony comes from my sister Kiyo that gave us the American names because it was difficult for the teachers and friends to pronounce our names, and in school, especially from the middle school on, I experienced that in the military as well, because there was no Tony there.
• 11:23
  And every time they had a roll call, I went in with my friend and they have a roll call. It goes alphabetically.
• 11:31
  His name is Matsuura. Then my name came next.
• 11:34
  And there's this long silence because they couldn't pronounce it.
• 11:38
  That's why Tony came in handy.
• 11:40
  Yeah. After a while, he got to the point where they just.
• 11:43
  This long silence and everyone knew who's the name.
• 11:46
  So I would just say here.
• 11:48
  And that was the simplest way to get by the roll call.
• 11:52
  Well, what's interesting to me is so you you have all these different names that were given to you, but that also carries over to your life today and that different people call you different names.
• 12:05
  So just briefly tell me, what do your family members call you?
• 12:10
  What do people work call you on and on.
• 12:12
  Just the differences.
• 12:14
  Yeah. My side of the family all refers to me as Tony, and I think that comes from my sister that gave us that gave me the Tony.
• 12:21
  That's my second oldest sister in the family.
• 12:24
  Um, and it's just been that way forever.
• 12:28
  Uh, on my wife's side, it's all Kaz or kazumu.
• 12:33
  Uh, the ones that knew me from way back is kazumu.
• 12:37
  Um, my friends that I grew up with is Kaz.
• 12:41
  Yeah. And as I said now, my friends at my club are all calling me Julio or Tony. So there's a mixture.
• 12:50
  So sometimes there are people don't know if it's the right or the same person.
• 12:55
  I get a kick out of it.
• 12:57
  Uh, yeah.
• 12:59
  Because in many ways, when people call you, you kind of know who they are in some ways, or where they come from or connected with in terms of what community.
• 13:08
  Well, uh, my employee, uh, she's a long time Japan, uh, Japantown person. She knows almost everyone in Japantown, so she knows me by Tony because that's how she met me in the profession.
• 13:21
  But she knows when she speaks to so-and-so, she says Kaz.
• 13:24
  So she goes back and forth, switches.
• 13:26
  So she's able to do that switching. She knows.
• 13:29
  She's, she's pretty darn good at that, considering just all these different people.
• 13:33
  We know.
• 13:34
  She knows when to use who Julio all right.
• 13:36
  Oh, that'd be funny. Yeah, that's just recent.
• 13:40
  I like I said, my club and I'm I'm having fun with it.
• 13:43
  They're having fun with it too, because they know now more so my my background.
• 13:50
  But for you, when you think of yourself, what name would you use?
• 13:55
  I prefer Kaz or Kazuma.
• 13:58
  Yeah. Um. It's more so now today than ever before.
• 14:04
  And it really started with the March pilgrimage in particular.
• 14:09
  That one started to tell me.
• 14:11
  Um. It's important to let people know what my real name is.
• 14:17
  So when I applied for the U.S.
• 14:19
  and U.S. citizenship, uh, my, um, driver's license, my social security card, all that is Kazumu Julio Cesar Naganuma.
• 14:33
  So it's like reclaiming your your original name?
• 14:38
  That's correct. You know, that's who I am.
• 14:40
  Um. And I'm proud of it.
• 14:42
  Um, not that I wasn't proud of it before, but it wasn't a value, if you will.
• 14:47
  When the war ended, the legal nightmare for Japanese Latin Americans actually got worse.
• 14:51
  The United States government classifying them as illegal entrants.
• 14:55
  That's in quotes because they lacked visas, completely ignoring the fact that the United States military kidnapped them in the first place.
• 15:00
  Peru refused to take them back, and the U.S.
• 15:03
  attempted to deport them.
• 15:05
  It took community allies like Reverend Fukuda of the Konko Church in San Francisco to sponsor families like the Naganuma so they could stay and rebuild their lives from scratch. George reflects on the sheer injustice of how his parents were treated.
• 15:22
  And then after it was over, they said, you're a.
• 15:28
  Illegal.
• 15:28
  Illegal alien alien, so get out.
• 15:31
  Yeah. Yeah. No money? No, I mean nothing.
• 15:36
  Get out! Go! And where did you go?
• 15:39
  Peruvian government.
• 15:40
  They don't want you.
• 15:41
  They don't want us because they.
• 15:42
  They stole everything that my parents had right in Japan was the surrender.
• 15:49
  So where do you go, huh?
• 15:51
  So your story is pretty, pretty horrendous too.
• 15:54
  I couldn't believe that, you know, they they they they they kidnap you. They put you in a foreign country.
• 16:02
  And then they say we're illegal aliens.
• 16:04
  Decades later, when the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 was signed, granting $20,000 in a presidential apology to camp survivors, most Japanese Latin Americans were completely excluded.
• 16:13
  It took intense advocacy and individuals like. And individuals like their sister Kiyo, stepping up to demand recognition.
• 16:19
  Recounts the powerful moment his sister confronted with U.S.
• 16:23
  officials to fight for their family's dignity.
• 16:26
  This is during the redress period during the late 1980s, um, the spokesperson came to the JCC and C center here, the community center. And while he was speaking, my sister went right up and showed him this one document.
• 16:45
  And it says each of us have this says that we were arrested by the FBI and surprisingly, he said on the spot that you qualify.
• 16:59
  So, you know, like we're kind of shocked.
• 17:02
  The other Japanese Peruvians that were there didn't have the same papers.
• 17:06
  So let me back up. So.
• 17:08
  So when you said you qualified.
• 17:10
  So you received the $20,000.
• 17:14
  My sisters and brothers did.
• 17:16
  Okay.
• 17:17
  Yeah.
• 17:18
  I didn't know. So. So your family were I mean, those members were about the only Japanese Peruvians who received that.
• 17:26
  Was that.
• 17:27
  I think so.
• 17:28
  Because they received a different settlement many of them, Uh, $5,000. Many years later, the key was the letter of apology from Ronald Reagan. And to receive the 20,000 That didn't come automatically.
• 17:47
  Hearing Jimmy, George, and Kazuma recount this history proves that Japanese America isn't a single narrative.
• 17:54
  It stretches across international borders from South America to the Texas desert and acquired decades of fighting just to get basic recognition.
• 18:00
  Absolutely. And seeing how Kazuma took that history to heart attending pilgrimages, speaking to migrants at border facilities in Texas and carrying his full name Kazuma Julio Cesar with pride shows that Redress isn't just a check in the mail.
• 18:18
  It's an ongoing commitment to justice.
• 18:20
  Michelle, when you heard the the oral histories, what did you what were some of the thoughts that you had?
• 18:26
  I didn't know like Latin, Japanese.
• 18:30
  I mean, there were many Japanese American.
• 18:32
  I mean, Japanese people went to South America, but I didn't know they were sent to America to be a, like a hostage and like, kidnap like.
• 18:45
  Oh, that's so wrong.
• 18:47
  Yeah. Well, what's what's interesting was when they were they were supposed to be exchanged. Right. But then what ended up happening was the Japanese government didn't want these random Japanese people from Latin America because the Americans were sending these farmers from, say, Peru.
• 19:03
  And the Japanese were sending soldiers or military people that they've captured.
• 19:09
  And so the Japanese were like, that's not a fair trade. We don't want these guys. There's more mouths to feed. So, you know, so then they were stuck in America because they weren't like, they couldn't go back to where they're from and they couldn't go back. They couldn't go to Japan. And so they were stuck here.
• 19:22
  So that's, that's kind of the irony. And the other thing that I think is really interesting about this whole history is that not every country in South America worked with the United States, for example, Brazil, Brazil refused.
• 19:33
  And that's why there's still a big Brazilian Japanese population because they they were refused. And I do have a friend, a Japanese Peruvian friend who's who's dad.
• 19:43
  I guess when the orders went out and they were going to kidnap all the people.
• 19:47
  His dad ran into the jungle and hid out for the war.
• 19:53
  And then. And then eventually he just came back and just kept living. So.
• 19:56
  So he he he ended up staying in Peru.
• 19:58
  And that's why he was still in Peru later.
• 19:58
  But there was there was a lot of stories.
• 20:02
  Um, did you have any other thoughts?
• 20:04
  Yeah. And then on the, and the minute they arrived in America, they had the travel papers, but they all got confiscated and destroyed.
• 20:14
  So they didn't have any papers.
• 20:15
  So when the war was over, there's nowhere to go.
• 20:21
  There's no paper. Yeah.
• 20:22
  And also Peruvian government took all of their belongings.
• 20:26
  So they don't want to be liable for whatever they stole from them.
• 20:30
  So I think that's another reason they didn't want it back.
• 20:33
  Yeah. I mean, they took their land and took all their stuff. Yeah. So I think that makes a lot of sense. And one of the things about the Latin Japanese experience is that it's just, it just reminds the Japanese Americans, I think, the community, that the story is not just what happened to Japanese Americans in America, but it's, you know, it was a broader Nikkei story.
• 20:52
  I mean, there were Japanese Canadians that were taken by the Canadian government. There were these Japanese people throughout Latin America that were went through a lot of different things. Um, so, you know, it's kind of a, I think it should be a reminder that World War Two wasn't just woe is me, Japanese American, which was terrible, obviously, but it was also kind of a broader Nikkei story of these Japanese in other countries.
• 21:14
  And also Crystal city had people from South America with the German and Italian descent.
• 21:22
  I don't think German Americans went to concentration camp, but in America. But the German Latin Americans had to go.
• 21:31
  So that was interesting.
• 21:33
  So so technically, Crystal city was not a concentration camp.
• 21:36
  Yeah. Okay.
• 21:36
  It was actually internment.
• 21:37
  Camp.
• 21:38
  Because because it was for non Americans or enemy combatants or people that expressed disloyalty and were no longer Americans.
• 21:46
  So like, that's why there were Germans and Italians. I mean, you know, ironically, from the stories I've read, I mean, the Germans and Italians and often Germans were treated much better than some of the other folks.
• 21:57
  They had beer hall.
• 21:58
  Yeah. I mean, like my family, for example, in Crystal city, I mean, they're American. My my grandfather was Nisei. My son, my dad was a Sansei. So they were American, American.
• 22:07
  And yet, you know, because of the way they looked, they were not treated so well. And to me, one of the interesting things about this story that I think is interesting is when you look at them, they look Japanese, American, or they look Japanese.
• 22:17
  But then when they talk and when they.
• 22:19
  And then their names always give this story about, you know, that that they're not Japanese American like myself or, you know, they're, they're, they came from a different place with a different upbringing.
• 22:29
  Uh, oh, also, um, Crystal city is the spinach capital.
• 22:35
  Did you know that?
• 22:36
  I did not know that.
• 22:38
  I found out, um, the Crystal city is the spinach capital, and they grow like a lot of spinach.
• 22:46
  So their mascot, unofficial town mascot is Popeye, the sailor man. And I grew up watching Popeye in Japan in Japanese, but they only show episode.
• 22:59
  That was okay, I guess, like not racist episodes.
• 23:02
  When I came to America, I saw Popeye on TV.
• 23:05
  I'm like, ah, I gotta see Popeye.
• 23:07
  Popeye the sailor man, Choo choo, I don't know.
• 23:10
  And then like, it was so racist.
• 23:12
  I'm like, what? I, I did not know Popeye is such a racist.
• 23:18
  And it's like Japanese, you know, supposedly Japanese guy with glasses and buck teeth.
• 23:24
  And they were like bullied.
• 23:26
  And I'm like, I've never seen such an episode in Japan.
• 23:29
  So I was really, really shocked.
• 23:32
  And that was the last time I watched Popeye.
• 23:34
  And then, um, there are many statues of Popeye, the sailorman in Crystal city.
• 23:41
  Still there? Ah, yeah.
• 23:43
  Oh, interesting. I've always I've always wanted to go to Crystal city.
• 23:47
  I've never been there.
• 23:48
  Of all the camps. I mean that's like the one that my like my said, my aunt remembers more than any of them.
• 23:53
  So I've always wanted to go there. I just never made a trip out there because it's kind of way out there. I think it's close to the southern border, right? It's close to Mexico. It's close to Mexico.
• 24:02
  Yeah.
• 24:02
  So we gotta go.
• 24:04
  On a lighter note, Michelle, I was cracking up listening to George's interview when he talked about how his parents brought a massive 20 volume set of The Book of Knowledge, or how he used his basketball skills to get out of KP duty in the Army.
• 24:15
  It got me thinking. What was the most absurd or hilariously useless educational item or gadget your parents bought for you growing up in Japan that you completely ignored?
• 24:23
  Uh, soroban do you know soroban?
• 24:25
  Abacus.
• 24:26
  Oh, abacus.
• 24:26
  Yeah. I don't know if they still do it in the math class in Japan, but when I was growing up, there was a session that we do every year with abacus, and my mom bought me the school abacus, which is like pretty long, like a, I don't know, like a foot-long abacus.
• 24:44
  And I brought it home.
• 24:46
  And my mom also had a like a shorter abacus, and I put it upside down and made it like a roller skate. And like we, we.
• 24:56
  But it's like it's not matching pair.
• 24:59
  So it kind of, you know, wheels on the floor.
• 25:02
  And my mom was like, so upset because it would damage the tatami floor and also the abacus. But.
• 25:09
  Do you still know how to use it?
• 25:10
  I don't remember.
• 25:14
  My mom used it for accounting.
• 25:15
  Oh yeah, I remember. I remember her watching or watching her use it for accounting. And I was like, no idea. She tried to teach me once and then I think I was not listening or not caring enough. And then she got mad at me, yelled at me.
• 25:26
  And then yeah, you get like some teachers would smack the students with long abacus.
• 25:31
  Like for me, the educational I remember my mom and dad brought me, bought me a computer early, early computers.
• 25:38
  And like pretty much I never used it for school.
• 25:40
  I just played games. And I remember playing things like Oregon Trail, but it was like, because back then, you know. I mean, nobody used computers. So there wasn't really a big use for me using a computer for school.
• 25:51
  Because no, like school wasn't online or anything like that.
• 25:53
  So it was like a, it was basically like a big toy where I played video games and, and did other stuff. But, you know, it was meant like my, I remember my mom and dad buying it for school.
• 26:03
  But, you know, at that time, no school was being used on the computer.
• 26:07
  Well, it must have been very expensive.
• 26:09
  Probably it was probably, I mean, at the time I didn't care.
• 26:12
  But now I look back, it was probably expensive.
• 26:14
  It was a waste of money.
• 26:16
  Yeah. Because my first microwave was $260 in 1988.
• 26:22
  But now you could buy microwave for like 30.
• 26:24
  Well, how do you remember how much it was.
• 26:26
  Because I, it took me two months of my, you know, I had a I work at the mailroom at college to make the minimum wage.
• 26:36
  And it took me two months of my wage to buy a microwave.
• 26:44
  That's crazy.
• 26:45
  Expensive. I know.
• 26:47
  All righty. A massive thank you to Densho for preserving these priceless oral histories of Jimi, George, Kazuma Naganuma.
• 26:55
  The fight for justice is never truly over.
• 26:58
  But by sharing these stories, we make sure the path forward is a little clearer.
• 27:04
  We will drop the link to their full oral history transcripts and interviews in our show notes, so you can explore their journeys deeper.
• 27:12
  But make sure to mark your calendars because on September 10th, we are back with season three, episode eight, Unwanted Truth. John Okada and the book That wouldn't stay silent.
• 27:24
  I am so incredibly excited for this one.
• 27:26
  Honestly, John Okada's No-No boy is one of my favorite, favorite, favorite books of all time.
• 27:31
  It's the reason I got interested in the camps and Japanese American history in the first place. You should read it, Michelle. If you get a chance.
• 27:37
  I should. Yeah, I gotta get a book.
• 27:39
  I, I think I. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna read I'm gonna read it before September 10th.
• 27:45
  It is such a raw, controversial masterpiece.
• 27:48
  We are going to dive deep into that book that was so painfully honest about the fracture inside our community after the war that it was initially rejected by the very people it was trying to write about.
• 28:01
  It's a story of survival, community, shame, and the ultimate struggle to be heard. You won't want to miss it.
• 28:07
  All right. Bye, guys. Bye.