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A Journey Through Art and Activism with Wendy Elliott-Vandivier · Living Loud and Proud: Disability Conversations

• Phill Rosen Voice Over 00:00:00 Welcome to the Living Loud and Proud Podcast brought to you by Disability Pride Pennsylvania. If you need a link to the transcript for this episode, please visit our accessible website at www.disabilitypridepa.org/podcast. And now, here is your host... Phill Rosen 00:00:28 Hi folks! Welcome to the Living Loud and Proud Podcast. Producer Phill Rosen here. My co-producer Ray Horton is listening in. Ray Deca 00:00:36 Hello Folks. Phill Rosen 00:00:38 Today we have Wendy Elliott-Vandivier on to discuss her history as a disability advocate as well as her history as an artist. But first, I want to thank our sponsor Highmark Wholecare for sponsoring the show. Ray Deca 00:00:52 Yay. Phill Rosen 00:00:52 Without you, this would not be possible. Now Wendy, thanks for coming on. Ray Deca 00:00:58 Hi. Wendy! Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:01:00 Hi, thank you for having me. Phill Rosen 00:01:03 All right. So Wendy Elliott-Vandivier is a graduate of Tyler School of Art at Temple University. She's been making art since she was a young child growing up in Philly. In college, she majored in sculpture and staged a funeral of a disabled poster child to lay stereotypes of pity and helplessness firmly to rest. Her paintings explore issues of family, memory, and experiences as a disabled woman. Her autobiographical cartoons focus on attitudinal barriers and stereotypes regarding disabilities and some of the microaggressions that disabled people experience while living normal, uninspirational lives. She is also a photographer of microscale monuments in nature, and is often inspired by close up images that people often do not notice in daily life, tree bark, dead leaves, flower anatomy, and water. Wendy is also a lifelong disability rights activist and has held leadership positions at the Philadelphia Mayor's Commission on People with Disabilities, Disabled In Action of PA, American Association of People with Disabilities, and United Spinal Association of Greater Philadelphia. Wendy is a teaching artist melding her art with her disability activism. She conducts art workshops on microaggressions and ableism, creating a welcoming and safe space for people of all ages to create cartoons of their own and engage in meaningful discussions about racism, sexism, homophobia, ageism, and other forms of discrimination. She tailors her programs for various age groups, from kindergarten, elementary, high school students, and beyond. She's also conducted training for universities, businesses, and religious organizations. To Wendy, it is all about repairing the world, making it a better place for all. Wow, that is quite a bit there, Wendy. So I guess I just want to get started on how did you get started as a disability advocate? Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:03:14 Well, I got started probably in my late, late teens, early 20s, I never knew any other people with disabilities. When I was growing up, I was always mainstreamed in regular Philadelphia public schools. I was always the only disabled kid in the classroom, or, you know, in the school. And I never knew anybody like me, and I was interesting because I, my parents were told that I had to go to the special segregated school for children with disabilities, Widener Memorial School. And I actually, I refused. I said to my parents, 'Why do I have to go to a special school? I want to go to the same school.' You know, where the other kids in my block were going. I didn't understand why this idea of going to the special school was even brought up. And my parents were really wonderful. They supported me in my desire to go to the regular school. My mother took me to school every day. (cat meowing, 4:14) The busses were not accessible, obviously, and she held my hand as I climbed up all the inaccessible, you know, the school inaccessible schools went up steps. I was able to walk. Then with my leg braces, I was born with Spina Bifida. So, you know, she made things possible for me. I don't think I ever respected her and valued her as much. You know, she's not, you know, with us anymore, but I'm grateful for everything that she did for me. But I say all that because I didn't know anybody. I had no role models. Didn't know anybody with a disability, you know, when I was growing up, and wasn't till I was in college, and I read, I read an article in Philadelphia, you know, in the Sunday section of. The Inquirer. And there was something about an activist named Mimi Nelken, and she was one of the original founders of Disabled In Action of Pennsylvania. Also, in addition to Mimi, was Siggy Shapiro was one of the other founders. So I read this article about Mimi. She was an artist, a potter, also, and I was just so struck by what she wrote in this article. And I looked up Disabled In Action, I actually joined it. Finally met a whole community of people with disabilities, and that's how I got started, you know, in disability activism, and I eventually became President of Disabled In Action. We, we were very instrumental in getting lifts on busses in the late in the late 1970s, early 80s. I was president of DIA when we sued the city of Phil-when we sued SEPTA, our local transportation authority, because they wouldn't put lifts on the busses. We took over a SEPTA board meeting. At one point, we demonstrated in the streets, blocked traffic. I was never arrested for any of the these fence because the paddy wagons were not accessible back then. They couldn't get us. They couldn't arrest us because they couldn't get us into the paddy wagons. They did try to arrest my husband and Steve gold was there. They tried to arrest Harvey Finkle, who was our photographer. This is all very early days and disability civil rights in Philadelphia, and we were very successful. We got lifts on, you know, on busses. Phill Rosen 00:06:47 Yeah, just out of curiosity, what year was that that you sued the Philly government? Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:06:53 I believe it was around in 1980-81 Don't quote me. I have to double check the exactly, but it was, it was early 80s, and I was in my 20s at the time, and it was very, it was very empowering. You know, we really wanted to make things happen in Philadelphia. Phill Rosen 00:07:13 Yeah. So how do you maintain that kind of drive, that commitment for advocacy. How do you, like, has there been really, like, any changes in focus over the years? I mean, you know, the 80s was, you know, 40 years ago? Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:07:33 Yeah. Phill Rosen 00:07:34 So I'm just curious, Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:07:37 Yeah, well, I've, you know, maintained my energy and enthusiasm for advocacy for a long time. I feel, you know, it's something that, you know, that I just naturally do. I want to make the world a better place. There's a concept called tikkun olam, making the world a better place that's in Hebrew, and it's really what I'm about. You know, when I experience something myself, or I want to help others also. I want to do something about it. I don't want to just, you know, complain. I want to take action. And, you know, my advocacy has changed over the years. I used to do these things on the streets and, you know, demonstrating, and I I've toned it down a little bit in my older years. I'm doing more working within the system. You know, working with legislators. I'm Co-President right now, United Spinal Greater Philadelphia Area Chapter, and we do a roll on Capitol Hill every year. And we also do a statewide roll on Harrisburg, where we have our four chapters getting together to advocate on all kinds of issues like accessible parking, abuse of accessible parking issues, access to trails, other, you know, other public accommodations, and trying to get wheelchair repair, getting a program in place that would allow people with disabilities to get their wheelchair repaired and covered under insurance, you know, at least two times a year. So I've been doing things like that. I haven't been, you know, getting myself arrested or being out on the street as much, but I think there's a lot of ways, you know, to advocate, and I've been just doing it, you know, for a really long time, and gives me strength, and I hope that it helps, you know, other people with disabilities. Phill Rosen 00:09:27 Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I kind of want to move focus a little bit. So we've mentioned a lot of leadership roles between your bio and just now you were talking about, you know, DIA, United Spinal. So what has that kind of looked like, in terms of like your advocacy for the disability community? Has there been anything of note that you've been involved in that you know wasn't necessarily mentioned as part of that? Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:09:57 I can mention is in my role as president of DIA, you know, like 40 years ago. Where you know, we were, we got our first Independent Living Center, you know, established. Phill Rosen 00:10:10 Oh. Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:10:10 I, when I was president of DIA, we had a Committee on Independent Living, and we established our first Independent Living Center in Philadelphia. It was called Resources for Living Independently, and it was a storefront place in West Philly. It was at 47, it was 4721 Pine. It was right next to the apartment building where I used to live, the Garden Court Plaza, 4701 Pine. So this was, like, you know, two places down right on, on Pine Street. It was a small storefront. I cut the ribbon when we started our first center and hired the first executive director. And that little tiny center with, you know, like, two staff people has grown for the last 30 years, you know. And now it's called, and when I started it was called Resources for Living Independently RLI, and now it's Liberty Resources, and it's become one of the, you know, the best Independent Living Centers in the, you know, in the country. So those are the kinds of things you know that I'm proud at most for, you know, for helping to spearhead, start those things in our community. Phill Rosen 00:11:25 Wow, wow. That's, that's really amazing. So, you know, you started making art when you were very young. Do you happen to remember, like, exactly what age you started making art? Like, did you go to school at that time? Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:11:41 I started making art when I was a little kid, you know, maybe, maybe four years old, you know, I remember, I remember drawing, you know, little self portraits and in crayons, and I wish I could find it's probably somewhere in the basement at my house. I used to do little sculptures. I remember making a small horse's head out of Play Doh. And I was always using my hands and make, you know, making art, even when I was a little kid, you know, was something I always, you know, enjoyed doing. I was, I was good at it, and you know, I always illustrate things. Like, in the high school, I would be the art editor of the school magazine and, you know, illustrating everything. But I always loved, loved making art. And then I went to school for, you know, for art, where I majored in sculpture. At Tyler School of Art Temple University, my parents were not happy with me, my decision art school, they wanted to be me a doctor or a lawyer, because I was always a straight A student. I was graduated near the top of my class, and I was good at, you know, academics. And they, they had different idea for me, but I always wanted to be, you know, an artist. Phill Rosen 00:12:56 Wow, wow. So, you majored in sculpture. Like, did your advocacy inform your art? You know, as you were growing up, or, like, did that kind of evolve later in your life? Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:13:12 My advocacy informed my art. When I was in college. Phill Rosen 00:13:16 In college? Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:13:16 I mentioned that, you know, I did the performance art piece. We used to do a lot of performance art. You know, back in, I started college in 1979 and we were doing a lot of performance pieces. And the piece I did with burying a poster child, I literally built this coffin and put this little poster child thing inside of it, and I dug the hole, and had all my classmates were around me, and we literally buried this poster child, you know, just, you know, we just could not stand these, you know, these negative images of these poor, pitiful, you know, people with disabilities. That was when, like the Jerry Lewis Telethon was always on, and I was always irked when I saw that and, you know, so that was my little statement about that. I used to also do a lot of things on the floor. I couldn't get up. Like a lot of my classes at Tyler at the time were not even accessible. My draw. One of my drawing classes, I had to literally crawl up the steps. You know, I was using leg braces, and eventually got a cane and crutches, but it was very difficult. So I was crawling up the steps. And I would do these, I would take different spaces, you know, on the second floor, and I did these pieces where I put tape. It was like, like, right then, maybe, like, a quarter-inch thick tape, and made these little like designs on the on the ground. It was like a, like a grid kind of thing. And then I had mirrors that I would install in these spaces. And it really, it changed your, you know, perspective of space. And. And I did it on lower floors too, where it was accessible for me, I didn't have to do that. I even did it outside with mirrors. Outdoors. I used to have a lot of friends at school, and my grandfather also came to me at school a lot and helped me carry all my art supplies. And so they were carrying wood and mirrors and stuff and helping me assemble, I was always more directing, because I couldn't physically do the large-scale environmental pieces that I wanted I got... Phill Rosen 00:15:29 Right. Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:15:29 ...a lot of people that were helping me. So I was the director. But I think even back then, you know, my advocacy was informed by that, and they also used to do little collages where I would show, you know, like a model. And I was cutting things out of, this is before there was any computers or technology. And I was literally cutting pictures of models, you know, wearing, you know, sexy underwear. And I would put braces on them and crutches and stick them in a wheelchair. I was doing this stuff before anybody was even thinking about this. And that kind of led to, you know, what I'm doing now with, you know, with the art and microaggressions and. Phill Rosen 00:16:11 Right. So, you know, when did you kind of start highlighting microaggressions in cartoons? Did you do anything else before the cartoons? Highlighting microaggressions? Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:16:23 I didn't do it before the cartoons. And I was never a cartoonist, but I was so, you know, as a sculptor, painter, and I did a lot of photography, but I never did cartoons, and it wasn't when I was working. I worked as a human resources manager for many years. That's how I was able to afford my house and having a son and all that. But I did that for 30 years, and towards, like, the end of my HR career, I remember, like I was always, people would always be making these comments as I was getting out of my van, like going across the parking lot, going to work. And people would say the most, you know, bizarre things to me, you know, like, 'It's good to see you out today,' or 'You're so inspirational.' As I'm just going down the lift and trying to get across the parking lot to get into the building. And I started writing things down, you know, on a notepad app on my cell phone. I didn't really think I was going to do anything with it. I just, you know, I just started, you know, putting it on the app, and eventually I would get an idea, you know, to do a cartoon. And those were the first cartoons that I made. A guy that ran up to me as I was, you know, getting up down my lift, and he said to me, and this is an exact quote, 'Boy, it's people like you who put my life in perspective, you know, like things could be a lot worse, you know, you could be me.' So I started putting all these things together and made my first cartoon. It was called Woof,The Excluded Deleted. And I say woof because I always put my service dog in the cartoons, Lucy, who and I drew her with three heads, representing different emotions as she was responding to these ridiculous comments that were people, that people were making to me, even when I was an HR manager, I remember somebody coming in for an interview and was so surprised, 'Are you the HR manager?' You know, could I be the one that was going to do your interviews? Obviously, they didn't get the job after that. But, you know, different stories like that and, and it was just really cathartic for me to, to make those cartoons at first and just getting it out of, out of my head, putting on a cell phone app, getting out of my head and putting it into, you know, cartoons. And then I realized that it was not only cathartic for me, but it could help other people. It could help people with disabilities be be proud of who they are in exactly the way they are. You know, foster that community and Disability Pride. And it was also helping people without disabilities to to see, you know, what their, what these comments do you know, to people like this, how they devalue us and, you know, erase our identities. So it was very, I think it's been helpful creating those cartoons, and it's kind of mushroomed even more where I'm now doing presentations about the cartoons for all types of audiences. I'm showing them to elementary and secondary school students. I've been showing even to kindergarteners. I've also been doing them for colleges and universities. I was even invited last year to do a workshop for medical students at Thomas Jefferson University Hospital, and I told them all about, you know, myself and how I got started doing the cartoon, showed them, you know. All the cartoons in a PowerPoint presentation. And then I engaged them in a hands-on art making workshop. And I was amazed that these medical students sat down with me and started drawing and, you know, enjoying it and, and I asked people to get up, you know, if they felt comfortable doing so, to get up and share, you know, why they created what they did, and they could talk about microaggressions and ableism, any experiences that they had with with a disability themselves, or maybe if they had a friend or family member, and even if they didn't have any of those things, they could talk about any other -isms that they experienced, whether it was racism, sexism, LGBTQ and so forth, ageism. And I was amazed at what people came up with and how they shared, and we had really, you know, great experiences, you know, talking with each other, you know, and learning about, learning about our experiences. So I really love doing this kind of work, and want to, you know, to do more of it with, you know, with different kinds of audiences. Jefferson has invited me back this year, and I'm going to have an art show of my cartoons in the medical school library. Phill Rosen 00:21:09 Oh, that's really cool! Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:21:10 I'm really enjoying what I'm doing, and feel that it's, you know, I have more purpose and meaning. Than I was doing when I was hiring and firing people all day long and disciplining and training and orienting. Phill Rosen 00:21:26 So, so you really kind of, well, I mean, you just talked a little bit about your workshops that you put on. So you really kind of were, you know, allowing kind of cross-identity, man, I am blanking on the exact word right now. But... Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:21:44 Intersectionality? Phill Rosen 00:21:45 ...intersectionality, there we go. Man, my ADHD today. But anyways, yeah, so you really kind of highlighted intersectionality and, and allowed people to really speak to that through their art as well. That's really, that's really interesting, because, you know, I think a lot of people might be surprised to kind of hear that someone who's who's going in with like, a focus on their identity, would be so open to allowing others to kind of talk about what you know their identities may be. Or, you know how art could be cathartic for that and so that's really interesting to hear. Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:22:28 I love that I did a thing for University of Delaware. I did it on my birthday. I was actually working on my birthday. Drove down to Delaware, did this presentation over 100 people there. It's like the largest group that I have had ever done. And we were large tables, like ballroom-style tables, and everybody you know drew their cartoons. They were very enthusiastic. And again, the same thing happened. People started opening up and sharing about other microaggressions, you know, because of their other identities. And I just really love creating that safe space, you know, where people could share and be themselves. Phill Rosen 00:23:10 Yeah. So do you have any like advice for young artists who, you know, want to have a career in art, or maybe have it be kind of a side hustle, like, you know, like, where to go, what to do, like, do you have any sort of advice for them? Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:23:30 Well, I wish for myself that I didn't spend so much time doing other things. I worked for the Office for Civil Rights, US Department of Education. This is when Clarence Thomas was our boss in Washington, and, you know, and then I did that for nine years, and then 30 years in HR, but I wish I didn't spend so much time, you know, doing that, just trying to make money, but have more of a balance in my life, because I feel, you know, I wish I had not spent so much time doing that and took more of a risk, you know, to, you know, just make my art and try to make a living out of my art. But to me, it doesn't really matter right now, whether I'm making a living out of it or not. I'm really doing it to educate others, to, you know, make the world a better place. So that's my, that's my purpose right now. But I paid for my son, went to, went to school, got his PhD., you know, got our house paid off. But I couldn't have done all those things if I was, you know, probably starving artist. Phill Rosen 00:24:35 Yeah, that's fair. And actually, I actually want to kind of circle back a little bit. You were talking about putting on workshops for kids in grade school. Is there anything that you were, like, involved in, like, as part of a project, like, I don't know, creating curriculum or, or anything involving, like, your art specifically? Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:24:56 Yeah well, I was involved in a really wonderful project. Through DEE, Disability Equality in Education. And Vicki was also very involved with this, and Connie, and I had a wonderful opportunity to get a grant to, it was from the Developmental Disabilities Council for in the State of Pennsylvania, and I got a grant to produce a coloring book for kindergarteners to second, third graders. And the coloring book was called A Day of Questions, and it was all about making kids feel comfortable, you know, asking people with disabilities questions. You know, a lot of times a kid will come up to me and try to ask me a question, and their parent is kind of dragging them away, you know, 'Don't talk to that person.' And I think, you know, it instills more fear, you know, that the kid starts to think that disability is a bad thing. You know, I should not try to talk or interact with this person. So with this coloring book that I illustrated my different experiences, taking them through my day, and having on the left side of the page, there would be a kid, you know, different ages, races, genders, and they would be asking me a question, and then I drew an illustration in response, like one time, a little boy came up to me, and this is an exact quote. He said to me, 'Where do you sleep?' And he was just very upset, like he thought I had to sleep sitting up in my power wheelchair. Phill Rosen 00:26:32 Awww. Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:26:32 And I had to explain to him that I do get out of bed, but I have a special lift. It's like a Hoyer. It's called a shorthand lift, but it lifts me up, and then it goes along a track on the ceiling, and then comes down. So I'm able to get in and out of bed, so my husband doesn't have to schlep me into bed all the time. But he just wanted a quest. Wanted to know, you know, I told him 'I sleep, you know, in a bed.' And that's all he wanted to know. And he was on to the next thing, but, and so I was really grateful for having the opportunity to create that coloring book. And at the end of the book, I drew some lines and a pencil, and kids got to write, you know, what are your questions? Or draw in one card, one section of it, I drew myself. They asked me, 'How do you dance?' And I drew myself, you know, dancing. I like to dance in my wheelchair. I don't know if I'm good at it, but I like to dance in my wheelchair. And so I drew myself dancing. And then at the end of the coloring book, there's a section that says, 'Draw yourself dancing with Wendy.' So it's really, really neat. Phill Rosen 00:27:39 Awww. Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:27:39 And you know, I did it for the presentations as part of the Disability Equality in Education, visiting various public schools in Philadelphia, where I would read the book to the students. And so you did a video of me, Phill Rosen 00:27:56 Yup. Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:27:58 and that was, that was a lot of fun, you know, showing me getting in my van and driving off, or Lucy my service dog, getting into the van and and so forth. Me dancing. And that was, you know, those are things that really educate and, you know, help, help the young people to understand people with disabilities more and feel comfortable. You know, asking us questions, and you know it's going to make better people as they grow up and they, you know, when they're in the workplace or interacting with people with disabilities. So I love doing things like that, and hope to do more with young children. They're not afraid to ask me questions. They, you know, their hands kept raising every million questions for me, I but I really love doing that sort of thing. Phill Rosen 00:28:44 Yeah, yeah. I remember finding music to go with your dancing, and that was, that was a fun actually. That was one of the fun videos. Well, all of them were fun in their own way, but I remember yours being particularly fun and having a lot of personality surrounding it. So do you have any advice for young and/or new disability advocates based on your experiences? You know, I say 'or new' because, you know, some people become disabled later in life and are just starting out on their advocacy journey, you know, maybe in their 40s, who knows? So do you have any advice for them? Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:29:30 Well, I think I would encourage people to do something you know, to take action, not known about all these problems that you experience, but do something you know, to affect change and, and recognize that these things take, you know, a long time. We're still fighting, you know, I've been doing this for, you know, my first act of advocacy when I was five years old. And I'm not telling you how old I am right now, but I was doing it a long time, and, you know, the world has changed, you know, quite a bit. There's still a long way to go for me advocating for lifts on busses. Now I'm focusing on advocating for being able to get into an airplane, and, you know, being able to not have to give up my wheelchair and get it, risk it getting damaged or not be able to use a bathroom on a plane. I want to travel the world, and my husband wants to stay home and garden and putter around the house, but I want to see more of the world. But I think not to be discouraged, because these things take time there. There have been a lot of soldiers in the disability community, you know, before I was, before I was involved in it, you know, in the late 70s, 80s, you know, looking in the 1940s and 30s that people were starting these groups, with you know Eastern Paralyzed Veterans Association, when soldiers were coming back from, you know, wars and, you know, becoming disabled, and how a lot of these groups started working on these issues. But things have, you know, continued to grow and evolve, and it's going to continue to evolve. And, you know, I hope our future is fully accessible. We still have a lot of work to do, the ADA, while we've had it, you know, 34 years on the books. You know, we need to have more access, you know, inclusion. You know, across the board, more people with disability who need to be employed. 60% of us are not working. But you know, one in four people in the country has a disability. You know, like 63,000, 63,000 people, I think, in the US, has a disability. And would like to, you know, to see, you know, there be chains that were fully integrated in all, you know, aspects of society. We shouldn't have to give up our, you know, Medicaid benefits if we get a job. And, you know, for me, I never was on Medicaid. I was always working. So now I'm on Medicare. And that's another problem, because when you're older, and you have a disability, then you're still not eligible for things. I'm not eligible to get attendant care service unless I pay for things out of pocket. And so, you know, there's a lot of problems, you know, people that are, that want to get married. You know, if they're on Medicaid, they can't get married because they risk losing their benefits. So there's some still, so many more things you know, that we need to work on, access to medical care. That's something I've been doing a lot of speaking about health care equity for people with disabilities. And I tell my own story about, you know, as a wheelchair user, how difficult it is to me for me to access medical diagnostic equipment. My, my cat is meowing. Sorry. Phill Rosen 00:32:51 It's all fine. Wants to get in on the conversation. Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:32:54 He has an opinion here. How long I should be doing this for. So, yeah. So with the access to medical diagnostic equipment, you know, mammograms, there should be accessible roll-on tables. You know, when you exam tables, when you're you know, at your doctor's office, a roll-on scale. I don't know how doctors, for so many years, were prescribing medication for me for different problems that I've had over the years. But they had no idea how much I weighed because they they couldn't get me on their scale. And this is, you know, this is, you know, totally outrageous thing. There's been a change to the Rehab Act, the section 504, the Rehab Act. And in two years, most medical offices are going to have to have accessible exam tables and roll-on scales. So I'm going to break the news to my GP that he has to do something. And he says to me, 'Well Wendy, I examine you in the wheelchair all the time' Well, you can't examine everything when I'm in a wheelchair. Phill Rosen 00:34:01 Right, exactly. Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:34:02 So that's, you know, that's what I've been doing a lot. I've been speaking to medical students at University of Pennsylvania and Jefferson, again, nursing students at Jefferson, at University of Pennsylvania, and, you know, throughout the city. So I'm really, really grateful to be able to partner with some great people on that from other disability organizations, and we do a panel where we talk to, you know about our own personal experiences. You like when I went to get a test at a hospital and the person after I had done all the preparation for this test, and rolled into the office, the person said to me, this is an exact quote, 'We don't take people like you here. You have to be seen in the main hospital.' You know, here, I did all the prep, and prep for this test, and I was not about to go home and do this again. There's those types of things, or going to a another doctor's office where I had to get on an exam table, and it was like a four foot high exam table. And I said, 'I can't do it, and I can't have my husband expect him to lift me onto this exam table.' And the nurse said to me, and this is an exact quote, she said, 'For our safety and your safety, we cannot, we cannot lift you.' And this was a practice that specialized in treating with people, people with disabilities, who you know became disabled through spinal cord injuries. And she, this was her response to me, and unbelievable, unbelievable stuff that happened. So I was saying all this to say that there's, there's still a lot of work to be done. You know that we and we still have to be patient and understand where our place is in the in the disability history, and it's going to take, you know, a long, long time before we see full access and equality for people with disabilities, and just be patient, do what you can do and feel proud of what you're doing, but keep, keep up the fight and mentor people younger than you to continue that fight. Phill Rosen 00:36:14 Yeah, I just want to say that some people may have just heard me chuckle. Ray had some choice gestures and words that he was mouthing in the background. I was not laughing at these things. So I want that clear. Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:36:28 Ok. Phill Rosen 00:36:29 Not that it's, you know, I mean, I've heard a lot of these types of.... Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:36:33 Yeah, I saw Ray there. Ray Deca 00:36:33 I definitely had to let them know how I felt about that statement that the nurse said, you know, it involved appendages on my hand being down, except for one or two. Okay, Phill Rosen 00:36:50 But... Ray Deca 00:36:51 You directed, of course, at the staff at that doctor's office. Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:36:54 Yeah, some egregious things go on, and a lot of people with disabilities don't even bother. You know, I've been told that if you want to be lifted onto the table, you need to come, you know, to the appointment by ambulance. You know, be lifted on a stretcher. Phill Rosen 00:37:12 Yeah, of course... Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:37:12 I don't need to be on a stretcher. I just need for the nurses or the doctors to use the Hoyer Lift. Ray Deca 00:37:18 That's horrible. Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:37:19 Just roll out the lift and, you know, and just do it because, you know, it's our right. We deserve this. Have the same access to health care as anybody else. Phill Rosen 00:37:29 Yeah, you know, I have to admit, there have been multiple things that my wife has talked about with doctors in the bedside manner that just make me absolutely horrified. She's a wheelchair user as well. So for people who may not know, but anyways, we could actually probably keep going on for hours and hours and hours but Wendy, I think it's about time for us to wrap up this conversation. So I actually wanted to give you a chance to, you know, shout out where people can find you online, you know, sell yourself, maybe your art? Ray Deca 00:38:02 Tell 'em, let them know, Wendy! Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:38:04 Well, if you're interested in learning about more about me and my art, if you'd like to see some examples of my art, or learn more about the workshops that I've been doing, you can visit my website, which is www.wendyevart.com, so it's www dot w-e-n-d-y-e-v-a-r-t dot com, and you can get in touch with me. You can email me through the website. Be happy to get back with you if you'd like to learn more about what I, what I do. But thank you so much for the opportunity to be on this podcast. I'm grateful for all the work that, that Phill and Ray are doing as well, Ray Deca 00:38:50 Thank you. Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:38:50 and proud to know you. Ray Deca 00:38:55 And it's always been a pleasure in my life having you there. And by the way, folks, just in case, if you don't know, Wendy was talking about her age, right? And I'm going to tell you right now, okay, I look young for my age, and she looks younger than me. Okay, I just had to put that out there, you know. Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:39:15 Thank you. I'm well preserved! Ray Deca 00:39:18 Very! Phill Rosen 00:39:21 Well, Wendy. Thank you for coming on. It's always a pleasure to talk with you. And I want to just close out by thanking our sponsors. Highmark Wholcare again, and thank you for listening everyone! We'll see at the next one! Ray Deca 00:39:38 Bye, bye. Wendy Elliott-Vandivier 00:39:39 Bye, thank you. Phill Rosen Voice Over 00:39:41 Please visit our accessible website at www.disabilitypridepa.org, you can find us on social media @DisabilityPridePA, on Facebook, Instagram and Tiktok.