Latest / Karl and Crew / Intentional Discipleship with Dr. Jared Nelms & Was Flavius Josephus Right All Along with Dr. John Dickson

Transcript

Intentional Discipleship with Dr. Jared Nelms & Was Flavius Josephus Right All Along with Dr. John Dickson · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
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  S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide. Overcome
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  S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined. Start
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  S1: your morning with a laugh.
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  S2: Practical from the Bible. Tips and tricks to kill. Not
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  S2: tricks but tips and tricks.
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  S3: Tips and tricks to kill. Tips and tricks.
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  S1: Delivering the truth daily.
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  S4: All of my attempts to, you know, prop myself up
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  S4: with achievement in good works. Well, God wasn't impressed by that,
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  S4: even if other people were.
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  S2: The gospel changes everything.
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  S5: Freedom in Christ. Man, it's like that backpack of cement
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  S5: just falling to the ground.
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  S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
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  S1: and Crew.
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  S6: Been trying to warn these guys this morning. Been trying
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  S6: to warn them all morning long. Been trying to warn them.
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  S2: All morning long.
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  S6: Got the best sleep recovery score I've had in years.
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  S6: Last night.
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  S4: That is good.
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  S6: Oh, my resting heart rate was down. Oh, my. My
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  S6: skin temperature was perfect. My long.
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  S2: Sleeve temperature.
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  S6: Yeah, it's a big deal, man.
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  S2: It has to do with your recovery.
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  S6: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. For sure.
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  S7: For you. Yeah.
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  S6: There's a there's about five factors that lead to sleep recovery.
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  S6: One is stress, but that's I always score 96 to
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  S6: 100 on stress. Isn't that great?
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  S2: That's pretty good. Yeah.
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  S7: The high.
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  S4: Score being.
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  S6: Being stress free.
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  S7: Oh, okay.
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  S6: Yeah. So praise God for that. So I'm feeling good.
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  S6: So just hang keep buckling up there team, because I'm
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  S6: feeling fresh.
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  S2: Three more hours.
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  S6: Yes siree. Bob. Yes, siree. Bob.
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  S2: It's always a little nerve if you're if you're new
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  S2: to the show, it's always a little nerve wracking. Well, okay,
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  S2: a couple things. Carl comes in sometimes and he says, okay, guys,
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  S2: I didn't get a lot of sleep last night, so
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  S2: I'm gonna be really loopy today. And then the other
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  S2: option is he comes in and he says, I got
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  S2: a lot of sleep last night. It's gonna be a
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  S2: crazy day.
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  S7: The pendulum goes the other way.
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  S2: The, uh, the the.
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  S6: Only sweet spot for you guys is right down the middle.
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  S7: It's the high ridge.
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  S4: Like everything else.
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  S7: You come back to.
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  S2: I got a perfectly average amount of sleep last night,
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  S2: and then that would be okay.
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  S6: Oh, come on, I have a great interview with, uh,
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  S6: discipleship Jared Nelms. Wow. What an amazing, amazing ministry t is.
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  S6: And buckle up because tomorrow we're going after it. Yeah,
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  S6: we're going to go reach the world with the gospel guys.
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  S7: A couple of days of global impact.
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  S3: Wow.
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  S6: It's going to be good. It's going to be good. Okay,
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  S6: so something's happening to me.
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  S7: Uh oh.
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  S6: Yeah.
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  S7: Okay.
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  S6: Yeah. It's so weird. And I'm going to illustrate it
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  S6: with this. Years ago. Well, this has happened with every
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  S6: rig we bought, and I haven't bought a lot of rigs,
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  S6: but we bought a Toyota. Toyota Highlander white. And I
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  S6: love white cars because it doesn't show the dirt. When
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  S6: you get a black car, they look so good, but
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  S6: you got to go wash them more. Because they show everything.
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  S6: Isn't that funny?
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  S4: It's ironic because it's not the same with clothing. No, no,
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  S4: it's the reverse, actually. Yeah.
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  S8: What is that all about?
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  S4: White clothing. You wear a bright white shirt and you
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  S4: see that little stain of syrup from your pancakes? Especially
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  S4: you don't see.
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  S2: It in the Midwest, where we have all the salt
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  S2: on the roads. That shows up way more on black cars.
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  S4: Oh, man.
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  S6: I mean black cars. They look so good when they're clean.
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  S6: But two blocks later, it's like rock. Gotta run that
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  S6: thing back through there again. So we got this white Highlander.
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  S6: Funniest thing. I never knew how many white Highlanders were
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  S6: out on the street until we bought one.
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  S2: Always the case.
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  S6: This is one of the greatest phenomenons of how God
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  S6: wired us. And I don't know if it's possession than observation,
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  S6: but I'm telling you, it's the weirdest. You guys have
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  S6: experienced this.
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  S4: Oh, yeah. There's actually a name for it. What is
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  S4: it called? The Baader-Meinhof phenomenon. And so it's it's exactly. No,
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  S4: I looked it up.
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  S6: Oh, good old batter comes through again.
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  S4: It's it's a weird name with a weird backstory that
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  S4: it would take too long to get into. But it
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  S4: is this, this thing that when you're when something captures
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  S4: your attention, you develop sort of this frequency illusion where
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  S4: you start to, let's say you hear a song that
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  S4: you really like and then your brain notices every time. Oh,
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  S4: then you hear that song in the store and then
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  S4: you hear that it's not that the song's being played more.
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  S4: It's not that you see it. Yes. It's not that
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  S4: more people went and bought a white Highlander. It's that
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  S4: all of a sudden your brain focuses on it and
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  S4: so you start to pick it out. whereas before you
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  S4: didn't notice it.
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  S6: There's a name for that.
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  S4: There's a name for it. It's a it's a pretty
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  S4: common phenomenon. It's used in marketing. Think about it, how
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  S4: you can all of a sudden you can see something
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  S4: and you feel like, oh, yeah, I do need that
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  S4: thing for that thing that I never even noticed before.
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  S8: Oh, no problem marketing.
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  S6: Everyone says you aren't sucked in by it, but it
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  S6: must work.
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  S2: The reason they keep doing.
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  S6: Here's the funny thing. I know it doesn't work on you,
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  S6: but it does on everyone else. Yeah, because I feel
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  S6: the same way. Doesn't work on me.
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  S4: No, not me, but it.
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  S6: But it has to.
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  S4: Yes.
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  S6: Isn't this funny? We're so shaped by what we're focused on.
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  S8: Oh.
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  S6: Oh, isn't that a good observation for taking your next
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  S6: step with Jesus?
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  S4: Yes.
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  S6: Oh. What's that guy's name again?
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  S4: It's Baader. Meinhof is the phenomenon.
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  S6: Well, it's probably named after a guy.
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  S4: Well, it's named after actually a terrorist group, which, as
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  S4: I said. Why? I said there's this a backstory that
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  S4: doesn't need war and doesn't warrant a lot of time.
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  S4: But it's just this idea once you once they set
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  S4: it in the news, and then that's how the term
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  S4: kind of became popularized is that you hear it once
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  S4: and then all of a sudden you keep feeling like
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  S4: you're hearing it all the time, or you're seeing it
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  S4: all the time.
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  S6: The only one that that didn't work for me on
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  S6: because we've, we've had, we drive our cars a long time.
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  S6: I mean, I'm not a new car every year guy.
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  S6: In fact, I've got a 13 and a 14 cooking
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  S6: right now.
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  S2: Very nice.
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  S6: Yeah. And those things run great.
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  S2: Make them last.
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  S6: Oh man. They're great. But I did have a little.
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  S6: Problem when I was in little Rock, I bought a
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  S6: little brown rabbit. And I love that car. I've spoken
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  S6: of it to get the hood up. I had a
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  S6: coat hanger, but it was it was hidden. You couldn't
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  S6: really see it.
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  S8: Okay.
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  S6: So I had to reach in the grill, grab it
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  S6: with my finger, and it was looped around. I worked
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  S6: it out that way. So I pulled on that thing
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  S6: and boom, popped it up. So no one could see that.
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  S6: But my key was a dead giveaway. So the, the
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  S6: I've mentioned this before, but it's too fun to not share.
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  S6: I drive from little Rock to Memphis. I got my
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  S6: son with me on the way there. I've got these.
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  S6: I was trying to fix the thing up because how
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  S6: do you fix up a Volkswagen Rabbit? Little brown diesel rabbit.
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  S6: How do you fix it up? So I ordered these
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  S6: hubcaps that you could pop on there, and it kind
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  S6: of spiced it up a little bit.
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  S8: Good old hubcaps.
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  S6: The problem is I lost two on the way to Memphis.
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  S8: Oh, no.
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  S6: By hitting potholes because I had such poor suspension on this.
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  S8: Thing.
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  S6: That it just blasted two of them off. I only
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  S6: found one, so it's hilarious. So we come wheeling in
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  S6: to this really nice hotel in Memphis, where there's a
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  S6: family life weekend to remember that, that I'm speaking at. Okay.
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  S6: And they give us instructions, pull up to valet. They'll
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  S6: take care of you, as always, if you're driving. I
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  S6: usually didn't drive, and we flew in. My bride and
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  S6: I on this one. It was just me. I took
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  S6: my son along because he loved room service. We could
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  S6: order whatever we wanted. So he's, like ordering burgers and
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  S6: just hanging out, man. He was just burger after burger.
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  S6: So we pull up, no joke, and pull up and
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  S6: the valet comes out and I said, hey, my name
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  S6: is Carl Claussen. Oh, Mr. Claussen, good to have you here.
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  S6: They're already doing a double take on this rabbit that's old.
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  S6: And so it rattles when it comes in and it's
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  S6: missing hubcaps. And they're already doing a double take on
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  S6: this thing. And my son's like, this is a rough
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  S6: rig for valet.
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  S8: Dad, I.
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  S6: Said, I know it.
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  S8: Is so.
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  S6: But the kicker is it didn't have a key. I
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  S6: had a screwdriver, a little stubby, flat screwdriver. And that's
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  S6: how you got that's how.
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  S8: You started it. Is that what you had to hand
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  S8: to the.
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  S6: That's what I handed to the Into the valley.
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  S8: That doesn't look sus at all.
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  S3: I didn't steal this car, I promise.
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  S6: No, I mean, it was so outstanding.
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  S3: I'm.
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  S6: I'm doubled over in laughter. I'm going, dude, I'm doing
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  S6: this just for posterity's sake. I said, if I had
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  S6: if I had an ounce of kind of, you know,
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  S6: real humanity in me, I wouldn't let you take this thing.
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  S6: But I said, this is good for grins and giggles.
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  S6: Here's my key. And he looks at it. He goes, what?
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  S6: I said, that's the key for the car. Don't lock
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  S6: it up. There's never valuables in it.
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  S8: Oh wow.
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  S6: It can't lock up. But this is what you turn
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  S6: this baby on with. No joking, he put the little
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  S6: elastic band around the neck of the screwdriver and plopped
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  S6: it in there. So when I came out, they knew
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  S6: which one. They didn't have any. They didn't miss which
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  S6: one was my key. And all the valets love that
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  S6: thing because I took it out one night and the
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  S6: valets are out there going, oh, you're the guy with
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  S6: the key. We'll be right back. Go get my car.
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  S8: That's so wild.
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  S2: I was gonna say they're not gonna forget you. They'll
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  S2: find your car easy.
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  S6: Oh my goodness, guys, crazy stuff you do. Ah! What's
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  S6: the biggest, oldest beater you ever drove? Just text me,
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  S6: and we're going to keep this train going down the
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  S6: road here. I want to draw a string between the
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  S6: commonality of this effect that Ali said in something that
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  S6: I've been seeing in the scriptures as well. But we're
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  S6: going to get out of God's way. Can't steal my
• 10:18
  S6: joy by Josiah Queen. You can't rip off Carlos Joy
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  S6: this morning.
• 10:21
  S4: 800 555 7898 just shoot us a quick text. What
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  S4: is the oldest? What did you call it? The oldest.
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  S8: Beta.
• 10:28
  S4: Beta that you have driven 800 555, 78, 98.
• 10:33
  S6: Yeah, that that, uh, that diesel rabbit called it a
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  S6: little brown turd. Boy, it kept me.
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  S8: Wow.
• 10:40
  S6: Yep.
• 10:41
  S1: It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 10:45
  S6: It's Garland crew having some fun here asking you, what's
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  S6: that old beater you drove? I drove? Oh, the little
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  S6: brown turd. I affectionately called.
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  S8: Him. Really?
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  S6: And it was a little. It was a four door.
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  S6: It was a big one. It was a four door
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  S6: diesel rabbit. And boy, was it a beauty. Had a
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  S6: screwdriver for an ignition key. I'm still getting a kick
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  S6: out of it.
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  S8: Man. It's funny.
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  S4: That there was a time when, like, between, like the
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  S4: station wagon era and, like, Brown used to be like
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  S4: a semi-popular.
• 11:15
  S8: Car color brown. I don't.
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  S4: Feel like you see a lot of brown cars.
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  S8: If you do.
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  S6: They got that cool metallic look to it now. It's
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  S6: a weird.
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  S8: Where it's.
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  S4: More of like a beige.
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  S8: But like. But it's got.
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  S4: Brown. Brown.
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  S8: I don't.
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  S4: See a lot of brown.
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  S8: Cars.
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  S6: You're right. Oh, I love this one. I had mine
• 11:30
  S6: was a Datsun B210. Drove it till the floorboards rusted out.
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  S6: Guys drove it to the junkyard to get my money.
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  S6: Floorboard falling out on the driver's side. There was a
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  S6: day when I could. We drove cars and I drove
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  S6: with buddies. You could see air through the floorboards, onto
• 11:48
  S6: the ground.
• 11:50
  S4: Onto the.
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  S6: Pavement. There's beautiful ones. What's coming in here?
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  S4: Okay, how about a red 98 Ford Contour that I
• 11:58
  S4: named Biscuit blue? MM. Oh, okay. My mom had an
• 12:02
  S4: 80s Volvo, and this was in the 2000 when you
• 12:05
  S4: were driving. The door would literally swing open just out
• 12:08
  S4: of nowhere. No, that sounds dangerous.
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  S6: Oh, I'm loving this. Keep going. Ali.
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  S4: Okay. You go.
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  S9: Oh, yeah. You go, you go.
• 12:17
  S6: That was a go kart, basically.
• 12:19
  S4: Old blue rambler. Ageless.
• 12:21
  S3: Yes. Rambler.
• 12:23
  S4: 1975 olds, Delta, 88 two door. Went 15mph. The day
• 12:29
  S4: I traded it for 100 bucks.
• 12:30
  S3: 100 bucks.
• 12:31
  S2: Oh my goodness.
• 12:32
  S4: 80 Chevette manual. Hey, I had one of those. Really?
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  S3: Yeah.
• 12:37
  S6: The Chevette man.
• 12:39
  S4: 1964 Ford Falcon three colors, baby blue primer and rust.
• 12:44
  S4: There you go. 72 Buick Electra. 225. Dark green. It
• 12:50
  S4: was a tank.
• 12:52
  S3: Oh, yes, that.
• 12:53
  S6: Was a land yacht.
• 12:54
  S4: 78 Plymouth Volare.
• 12:56
  S6: Oh, yeah.
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  S3: Oh, yeah.
• 12:58
  S4: Right.
• 12:59
  S3: Is it is it okay? Yeah.
• 13:02
  S4: Uh. Let's see. Dodge spirit. My parents bought at an
• 13:05
  S4: auction for $400. They didn't even know if it ran
• 13:08
  S4: when they bought it.
• 13:09
  S3: Oh.
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  S4: A Datsun B 210.
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  S6: Yeah, that's the one I just spoke about. Datsun B210.
• 13:16
  S6: What a what a car.
• 13:17
  S4: 69 El Camino 90 Toyota Camry. 1975 AMC pacer. 1964
• 13:24
  S4: push button shift, Plymouth Valiant.
• 13:27
  S3: Oh, man. Wow.
• 13:28
  S4: We're going back here.
• 13:30
  S3: Oh.
• 13:31
  S6: This is beautiful. All right. We took a bunny trail.
• 13:33
  S6: Let me tell you where we were at here way
• 13:35
  S6: back in the day. So the the weird thing, except
• 13:39
  S6: for these kind of cars, because you don't see them everywhere, right?
• 13:42
  S6: But the weird thing is, when you get an automobile,
• 13:44
  S6: you start seeing that automobile all over the place. It's
• 13:47
  S6: just the weirdest. And Ali says there's a name for this.
• 13:50
  S6: So here's the deal. God has had me on this
• 13:54
  S6: ever since. I veered away from obedience central passages for
• 14:02
  S6: a while, not because I, I shouldn't say veered away.
• 14:07
  S6: I was hesitant to dive into him because we're coming
• 14:10
  S6: out of an age when obedience can be code word
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  S6: for legalism, right? It can be. Sure, it can be
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  S6: that way. But when you start looking at the scriptures, uh,
• 14:21
  S6: sometimes when you get kind of get on a bender,
• 14:24
  S6: I don't know what kind of that issue or topic is.
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  S6: You start seeing that word in that theme all over
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  S6: the place in scripture, right?
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  S4: Oh, yeah. And so that's what you've been seeing with obedience.
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  S3: With obedience.
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  S6: And obedience, if it's paired with utter dependence on God,
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  S6: I e John 15. Cling to Jesus. Walk in his ways.
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  S6: I mean, look out. So. You look at Romans. Do
• 14:56
  S6: you know that Romans is book ended with obedience? We
• 14:59
  S6: talked about this, didn't we, last week a little bit.
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  S6: The end of Romans? Or was I talking.
• 15:05
  S2: With.
• 15:06
  S6: Our church about this?
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  S2: I mean, we did Romans 1513 as a passage last week, but.
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  S6: Well, what I'm referring to is the doxology.
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  S2: No, we didn't.
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  S3: We didn't, we didn't. I was talking.
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  S6: With I was talking with my elders about this on
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  S6: Saturday morning. Sorry guys. It's okay. Got a lot going
• 15:22
  S6: on here. So Romans 16, you go down to the
• 15:24
  S6: end of it in the doxology. Uh, this gospel for
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  S6: all nations to bring about the obedience of faith. So
• 15:33
  S6: that's the very end of Romans 16. But it's bookended
• 15:37
  S6: because you go to the beginning of Romans. What do
• 15:39
  S6: you find? You got here in verse five, through whom
• 15:42
  S6: we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the
• 15:45
  S6: obedience of faith for the sake of his name among
• 15:49
  S6: all the nations. So it's interesting, I was talking with
• 15:52
  S6: Coakley about this. The whole book of Romans hangs on obedience.
• 15:56
  S6: That's the theme. It's book ended, but everything in between
• 16:00
  S6: those pages gives you a healthy obedience. Well, you go
• 16:03
  S6: to first Peter, and we just started a new series
• 16:06
  S6: at 180 Chicago on both campuses. And lo and behold,
• 16:10
  S6: the first two verses in First Peter chapter one hangs
• 16:14
  S6: on this in the sanctification of the spirit for obedience
• 16:19
  S6: to Jesus Christ. So I'm seeing this everywhere now. There's
• 16:24
  S6: a healthy obedience and a very unhealthy obedience. Right, Ali?
• 16:27
  S6: I mean, there's.
• 16:28
  S3: There's.
• 16:29
  S4: An unhealthy obedience.
• 16:30
  S6: Well, an obedience that says, I've got a holy checklist here, okay,
• 16:34
  S6: can be a really dangerous thing. So we want to
• 16:37
  S6: get it right. But I've got a crazy question for
• 16:40
  S6: you from a perspective of healthy obedience. The Spirit of
• 16:45
  S6: God will work in your life to bring about conviction
• 16:51
  S6: about things that need to change. And those those convictions
• 16:56
  S6: lead to obedience. Either something to step into or something
• 16:59
  S6: to step away from. Always. Invariably that's I mean, conviction
• 17:05
  S6: will lead to that kind of a thing. So we've
• 17:08
  S6: got a really tough question for you. We want text
• 17:11
  S6: responses to this only. Ali, let's get this hard hitting
• 17:16
  S6: question to our folks.
• 17:18
  S4: Yeah, I want you to think about this. And what
• 17:19
  S4: if following Jesus meant you no longer negotiated with the
• 17:23
  S4: things that he's calling you to leave? What would you
• 17:26
  S4: walk away from today in the name of obedience? 800
• 17:30
  S4: 555 7898, 800 555 7898.
• 17:36
  S6: Let's let's do that one more time. What is that.
• 17:39
  S3: Question? Yeah.
• 17:39
  S4: What would you walk away from today? For the sake
• 17:42
  S4: of obedience. 800 555 7898.
• 17:47
  S6: Think about that for a second. Boom crew. It's a
• 17:50
  S6: little devo time. So we see the bookends. In Romans.
• 17:54
  S6: We see first Peter. It's not an unhealthy obedience. It's
• 17:58
  S6: a Holy Spirit conviction which is so good in comfort.
• 18:03
  S6: The Holy Spirit comforts you that, oh, let's walk in
• 18:05
  S6: this way one more time with that question. Alex.
• 18:09
  S4: Yeah. We're asking you, what would you walk away from
• 18:11
  S4: today for the sake of obeying Christ? 805 55 7898.
• 18:18
  S3: Yeah.
• 18:18
  S6: What's the Spirit of God saying to you? We're not
• 18:20
  S6: going to call out your number, but what a cool
• 18:23
  S6: little small group we're having here this morning. It's us
• 18:26
  S6: and you. What is that? 805 55, 78, 98 and
• 18:32
  S6: then we're going to pray for all these here in
• 18:34
  S6: just a moment. 800 555 7898.
• 18:40
  S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl
• 18:43
  S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.
• 18:47
  S4: Asking you a question on this Monday morning. What is
• 18:50
  S4: God calling you to leave, to walk away from in
• 18:53
  S4: order to be obedient to him? So much honest feedback coming.
• 18:58
  S4: Judging others. Carrying credit card debt constantly. Offense. Being snarky
• 19:04
  S4: to my wife. Shopping another. Too much shopping on Amazon.
• 19:08
  S4: I would walk away from lustful thoughts, gambling, doom scrolling wine,
• 19:15
  S4: judging others, materialism being unforgiving.
• 19:19
  S3: Wow.
• 19:20
  S4: Subtle connections to my past.
• 19:23
  S3: HMM.
• 19:24
  S4: Wow.
• 19:25
  S6: Yeah. They keep running in here. This is beautiful. How
• 19:30
  S6: heartening is it? I want to tell you right now.
• 19:32
  S6: If you responded either via text or in your heart
• 19:35
  S6: to the Lord right now, I I want to tell
• 19:36
  S6: you how encouraging that is to us. And don't don't
• 19:40
  S6: you for a second question, your salvation, because only the
• 19:44
  S6: spirit of the living God can do that in a nanosecond.
• 19:47
  S6: That's God working in you. What a beautiful, beautiful thing. Ali,
• 19:51
  S6: I I'm overwhelmed by these responses. They're so vulnerable.
• 19:55
  S4: Yeah. Worry and fear. Lust, excessive sugar, working seven days
• 20:02
  S4: a week.
• 20:04
  S3: Wow. Yeah.
• 20:05
  S6: Let me pray. Father, in Jesus name, we come before
• 20:08
  S6: you thanking you that you are the one who reveals
• 20:11
  S6: to us things that are in your way and holding
• 20:17
  S6: us back. And yet you give us the strength and
• 20:20
  S6: the grace to walk away. Oh Lord, I pray your
• 20:25
  S6: mercy over these precious friends of ours right now. You
• 20:30
  S6: have deposited in them what they need, Lord, if they
• 20:33
  S6: need to go to a friend and say, help me
• 20:35
  S6: break the back of this thing that I'm walking away from.
• 20:38
  S6: Pray with me. If there's a choice that they need
• 20:42
  S6: to make today, that they know something off of a phone,
• 20:45
  S6: maybe moving to a flip phone, maybe just an honest
• 20:50
  S6: discussion with the spouse, maybe confessing snarkiness to a spouse,
• 20:54
  S6: whatever this is, Lord, we just bring all of these
• 20:58
  S6: heartfelt things before you spoken and unspoken, typed and untyped
• 21:03
  S6: and we say, be the Lord of it all. Oh God.
• 21:07
  S6: Thank you. In Jesus name, Amen.
• 21:11
  S3: Amen.
• 21:12
  S6: What a great group the boom crew is, huh?
• 21:15
  S4: The best.
• 21:16
  S6: I mean. This is so heartening. He loves you. Don't
• 21:24
  S6: you dare! Don't you dare skulk around in shame. You
• 21:28
  S6: walk right up to God today.
• 21:31
  S1: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to Carl and crew.
• 21:36
  S6: It's Carl and Crew here. We're handling a whole week,
• 21:39
  S6: by the way, called What If? And I am getting
• 21:42
  S6: a kick out of this.
• 21:44
  S4: You like that? Just kind of the random what if questions?
• 21:47
  S3: Yes.
• 21:49
  S4: Thought provoking and and fun.
• 21:51
  S3: Yeah, I love these.
• 21:53
  S6: Uh. I mean, give me a crate. Have you got
• 21:57
  S6: a crazy what if right there.
• 21:58
  S3: Have you got.
• 21:59
  S6: A crazy one? Give me a.
• 22:00
  S3: Crazy.
• 22:00
  S4: What if you could create one rule or law that
• 22:04
  S4: everybody else in the world had to follow?
• 22:06
  S3: Oh.
• 22:07
  S2: Oh, man.
• 22:07
  S3: What if.
• 22:08
  S6: Let's make it fun. Not too crazy.
• 22:10
  S3: Okay. Yeah.
• 22:11
  S4: Mine could create one rule.
• 22:12
  S6: One rule. Oh, this is going to sound hypocritical because
• 22:16
  S6: I've sped plenty, but the rule would be you can't
• 22:20
  S6: go more than ten miles over the speed limit. Ever, ever, ever.
• 22:24
  S3: I mean, I think that one's.
• 22:26
  S4: Already.
• 22:26
  S3: A lie. I know, but it ain't enforced.
• 22:29
  S6: And so I want to put bigger. bigger banners up.
• 22:34
  S4: Okay, so you're doubling down.
• 22:36
  S3: I'm doubling down.
• 22:37
  S2: Is this a law that is unbreakable to people or
• 22:40
  S2: are they allowed to break it like people break laws?
• 22:43
  S3: Why?
• 22:43
  S6: It's always Jonathan.
• 22:45
  S3: He always comes with these clarifying questions.
• 22:47
  S2: Well, I want to know.
• 22:48
  S3: Because.
• 22:49
  S6: To be clear.
• 22:49
  S2: I can say I don't want people going more than
• 22:51
  S2: ten miles an hour over, but they all do that anyway.
• 22:53
  S3: Okay.
• 22:54
  S4: This is a rule that it becomes a rule because
• 22:56
  S4: Jonathan said so and everybody else has to follow.
• 22:59
  S2: Has to follow it. Okay.
• 23:01
  S3: So so take your pick.
• 23:03
  S2: Yeah. I mean, I think it probably has to do
• 23:06
  S2: with driving too. Uh, I'd say, you know, if you're
• 23:10
  S2: going crazy on the highways, automatic prison sentence, if you're,
• 23:14
  S2: if you're, if you're speeding through and cutting people off
• 23:18
  S2: and trying to dip, dodge and weave through all the lanes.
• 23:21
  S2: Automatic prison.
• 23:22
  S3: Sentence.
• 23:23
  S2: Of five years.
• 23:24
  S3: All right.
• 23:24
  S6: Well, five.
• 23:25
  S3: Years.
• 23:25
  S2: No. Five years. You know, you go too hard, so
• 23:28
  S2: they don't do it anymore.
• 23:29
  S6: 30 days?
• 23:30
  S2: No, I tell you, five years you get you get
• 23:32
  S2: three people who get five years and then everyone else goes, well,
• 23:35
  S2: I don't want that. They're really enforcing it and then
• 23:37
  S2: they don't do it anymore.
• 23:38
  S4: Well, mine's gonna sound kind of trivial given.
• 23:41
  S3: You guys go for.
• 23:42
  S4: It. Mine has to deal with feet.
• 23:45
  S3: Feet.
• 23:46
  S2: Okay.
• 23:47
  S4: Okay. If you're going to wear sandals of any kind.
• 23:51
  S2: Trim your toenails.
• 23:52
  S4: Toenails must be.
• 23:54
  S3: Trimmed.
• 23:55
  S4: And your toes must remain on the footbed of the shoe.
• 24:00
  S4: Your toes should not extend past the front of the shoe.
• 24:03
  S4: Your for creating a claw.
• 24:05
  S3: Like effect with a claw. Claw.
• 24:09
  S2: You don't want the. You don't want the Talon toenails
• 24:11
  S2: coming out.
• 24:12
  S4: So that's my law. And now it feels silly because
• 24:15
  S4: you guys went with driving. But I think feet also
• 24:17
  S4: need to be cared.
• 24:19
  S2: Is there a prison sentence with that one too?
• 24:20
  S4: No, it's just a rule that all should abide by. Okay,
• 24:23
  S4: so says I.
• 24:26
  S6: I super di. Do you have one?
• 24:29
  S4: I do, but it has to do with traffic as well. Oh, okay.
• 24:32
  S9: Go ahead. Come on.
• 24:32
  S2: We all drive a lot.
• 24:33
  S5: I think that's just it. Mine is with. If you
• 24:36
  S5: do not use your turn signal, changing lanes.
• 24:39
  S2: Prison sentence.
• 24:40
  S4: Then your seat. No. Your seat needs to buzz you.
• 24:42
  S4: There needs to be something in your seat that buzzes you.
• 24:46
  S9: Okay, so you know what?
• 24:48
  S6: I'm into that.
• 24:50
  S4: Okay.
• 24:50
  S6: If we had a shock.
• 24:52
  S9: Factor for.
• 24:53
  S6: Speeding, no turn signals or anything like that, it just
• 24:56
  S6: zaps everyone.
• 24:57
  S4: Yeah, just that is. You know.
• 24:59
  S2: I like that.
• 24:59
  S4: Okay? I like it much.
• 25:00
  S5: Flying through lanes and no signals whatsoever.
• 25:03
  S4: Just a little. I'm okay now. Yeah.
• 25:06
  S6: Well, going back to Ali, someone said preach Ali. The
• 25:11
  S6: claw like toes going over the front of the.
• 25:14
  S2: Just don't look down the slides.
• 25:16
  S4: Hey, the next couple of days, 80 degrees.
• 25:18
  S5: I can't be on the lookout.
• 25:19
  S2: They're coming.
• 25:20
  S4: Those winter toes are coming out. Those winter feet are out.
• 25:24
  S4: All right, all right.
• 25:26
  S6: Here's the deal. What if. What if Flavius Josephus was right? Oh, Flav.
• 25:35
  S4: Huh?
• 25:36
  S2: Flav.
• 25:37
  S4: What if. What?
• 25:38
  S6: What if Flavius Josephus was right? Details straight ahead.
• 25:42
  S1: You're listening to Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 25:47
  S6: So I set this up with what if Flavius Josephus
• 25:51
  S6: is right? When we thought he was wrong, and now
• 25:54
  S6: he's like. Whoa. Time out. Carl, slow down here. What
• 25:58
  S6: did you tell me, Ali?
• 26:00
  S4: I said, let's talk about who in the world we're
• 26:04
  S4: talking about because hey, the vast majority of us are
• 26:10
  S4: not going to have an idea of who Flavius Josephus is.
• 26:14
  S6: Yeah. Important figure. Let's bring in John Dixon. Man. Flavius Josephus. Uh,
• 26:20
  S6: what a guy. Uh, Jewish aristocrat, A.D. 37 to 100
• 26:25
  S6: on a base. Uh, just recent writing that you did here,
• 26:28
  S6: give us more on this man, would you? John, welcome
• 26:30
  S6: aboard here, by the way.
• 26:32
  S10: Hey, it's great to chat with you both. Look, he's
• 26:34
  S10: the most important writer for us. Jewish, Roman Galilee and
• 26:41
  S10: Judea that we have from the ancient world. So here
• 26:44
  S10: is a first century aristocrat, as you say, who's a
• 26:49
  S10: committed Jew. He actually says he's a Pharisee. Um, and
• 26:54
  S10: he was raised in Judea, but was a man of
• 26:59
  S10: the world. He'd gone to Rome. He'd he'd done a
• 27:02
  S10: lot of travel. He was multilingual, had very good Greek,
• 27:06
  S10: also spoke Aramaic. And he, toward the end of his life,
• 27:12
  S10: wrote an account of the Jewish war that took place between, uh,
• 27:19
  S10: 66 and, let's say 73 in the first century. And
• 27:25
  S10: he also wrote a history of the Jews called the Antiquities,
• 27:29
  S10: which goes from Adam right up to the outbreak of
• 27:35
  S10: the war. And as a result, he tells us tons
• 27:37
  S10: of things about Herod the Great, Herod Antipas, Pontius Pilate,
• 27:42
  S10: all the guys that we know from the Gospels. But
• 27:44
  S10: he gives us a really detailed historical accounts.
• 27:50
  S6: Let's I.D. this guy who's with us with this funky
• 27:52
  S6: accent from beautiful Australia. Ali.
• 27:55
  S4: Doctor John Dixon with us this morning, started out as
• 27:57
  S4: a professional singer songwriter, now works as an author, speaker,
• 28:01
  S4: academic historian and media presenter.
• 28:04
  S6: Couple of things I want to hit. Flavius Josephus is.
• 28:07
  S6: It's commonly known that he had a gift of hyperbole,
• 28:12
  S6: especially seen around Passover in the recounting of that incredible
• 28:18
  S6: festival that led to the crucifixion of Christ. Uh, the
• 28:22
  S6: numbers that he gives for people that were there. The
• 28:25
  S6: sojourners seem almost impossible. Uh, but this leads to the
• 28:32
  S6: problem with Flavius Josephus. What you can believe and what
• 28:35
  S6: you can't believe. Generally speaking, what's your take on his, uh,
• 28:40
  S6: what he's done in war and antiquities, his histories.
• 28:43
  S10: I mean, every historian takes it super seriously. If Josephus
• 28:46
  S10: says so and so went here and this city, you know,
• 28:49
  S10: collapsed in this year. He's, uh, nearly always right. And
• 28:54
  S10: we can demonstrate his truthfulness by archaeological findings. I have
• 28:59
  S10: a special interest in a town called Gamla up in
• 29:02
  S10: the north of Galilee, which was taken by the Romans
• 29:04
  S10: in the year 67. And Josephus tells us he actually
• 29:08
  S10: fortified the town. So he gives us a whole bunch
• 29:10
  S10: of details about it and then describes how it fell.
• 29:13
  S10: And the archaeology bears it out beautifully. Yeah. On the
• 29:17
  S10: other hand, he exaggerates. So especially with numbers, I don't
• 29:20
  S10: know what it was with Josephus. He liked adding zeros, basically. So,
• 29:26
  S10: you know, he'll say there's no village in Galilee that
• 29:29
  S10: has fewer than 15,000 people. Well, we're pretty sure we know.
• 29:34
  S10: We know villages that probably only had 400 people like Nazareth. Uh, so, um,
• 29:41
  S10: he's an exaggerator. Um, we don't know exactly why, but
• 29:45
  S10: he's also a pretty good source for, you know, more
• 29:50
  S10: pedestrian things that happened.
• 29:52
  S6: There is a portion, and this is why I wanted
• 29:54
  S6: to bring you on. You've got a whole article on this,
• 29:56
  S6: and I want to spend the balance of our time
• 29:58
  S6: tackling this one. I was so intrigued with Flavius Josephus
• 30:02
  S6: that I got wars in antiquities, and I have highlighted
• 30:05
  S6: in antiquities this what is called the Testimonium flavianum. Uh,
• 30:10
  S6: how do you pronounce that? Testimonium.
• 30:12
  S10: Flavianum. Testimonium. Flavianum.
• 30:14
  S6: Flavianum. Which is the testimony of Flavius Josephus about Jesus. Yeah. Now,
• 30:21
  S6: let me just read this. I'll hit some high points
• 30:25
  S6: about this time. I'm quoting from book 18 of Jewish Antiquities.
• 30:30
  S6: About this time there there lived Jesus, a wise man,
• 30:33
  S6: if indeed one ought to call him a man, which is,
• 30:36
  S6: by the way, referring to deity, for he was one
• 30:40
  S6: who wrought surprising feats, and was the teacher of such
• 30:43
  S6: people as. Except the. As, except the truth. Gladly he
• 30:48
  S6: won over many Jews in many of the Greeks, and
• 30:51
  S6: then it's bracketed. He was the Messiah. When Pilate, upon
• 30:54
  S6: hearing him accused by men of the highest standing among us,
• 30:58
  S6: had condemned him to be crucified. Those who had in
• 31:02
  S6: the first place come to love him, did not give
• 31:04
  S6: up their affection for him, for he appeared to them
• 31:07
  S6: alive again on the third day. The divine prophets, having
• 31:10
  S6: foretold these and countless other marvelous things about him and
• 31:15
  S6: the tribe of the Christian, so called after him, has
• 31:19
  S6: still to this day not disappeared. Okay, John, it has
• 31:24
  S6: been assumed, and I've heard this for years when I
• 31:27
  S6: was in Bible College seminary, that this was an add
• 31:30
  S6: on after the fact. Give us the fresh discovery that
• 31:34
  S6: you have stumbled upon.
• 31:37
  S10: Well, most scholars over the last 50, 60, 70 years
• 31:42
  S10: believed Josephus wrote the substance of that paragraph, but that
• 31:48
  S10: some elements were added like, if indeed one can call
• 31:51
  S10: him a man. And the reference to the resurrection and
• 31:53
  S10: the reference to him being the Messiah. But most scholars
• 31:56
  S10: deleted those lines and thought, well, it looks like the
• 31:59
  S10: sort of thing a first century aristocrat might have said.
• 32:03
  S10: And I've been teaching that for 25 years at Macquarie University,
• 32:06
  S10: Ancient History Department, Sydney University, Jewish Studies Department, and since
• 32:10
  S10: I moved to Wheaton College, the same. However, there's a
• 32:15
  S10: brand new book that has come out just this year.
• 32:22
  S10: By Tom Schmidt, who's a really competent scholar, and he
• 32:26
  S10: has given all of us scholars who thought this was
• 32:31
  S10: a paragraph that had been doctored by a later Christian. Uh, pause.
• 32:36
  S10: And so we now actually have to confront fresh evidence
• 32:40
  S10: that maybe the whole thing definitely came from Josephus. And
• 32:46
  S10: what Schmidt has done is he's first brought various manuscripts
• 32:51
  S10: into the discussion. For example, there's a Latin manuscript that's
• 32:55
  S10: very early that says it was believed he was the Christ. Okay. Well,
• 33:01
  S10: no Christian would have invented that. So maybe that's what
• 33:03
  S10: the original said. Josephus says people reckoned he was the Messiah.
• 33:08
  S10: And then what he did is Schmidt analyzed these 90
• 33:12
  S10: words in the paragraph that you read out and showed
• 33:16
  S10: that the words that are there in the original Greek
• 33:19
  S10: fit with what we know of the whole corpus of
• 33:22
  S10: Josephus writings. It reads like his language, whereas scholars used
• 33:26
  S10: to think, oh, it's a little bit. A little bit weird. Well,
• 33:29
  S10: he's demonstrated by an algorithm that it actually fits Josephus beautifully.
• 33:36
  S10: And then he said, look, this business about Jesus rising
• 33:42
  S10: again and being seen by his disciples, maybe we've misunderstood
• 33:46
  S10: the translation. And he shows that the key verb to
• 33:49
  S10: appear might simply mean it appeared to them, the disciples,
• 33:55
  S10: that he was alive again. Where? So therefore, the Jewish
• 33:59
  S10: writer Josephus isn't saying, I believe Jesus rose again, which
• 34:03
  S10: is why people thought this paragraph had been played with.
• 34:08
  S10: Maybe it actually just means it appeared to the disciples
• 34:13
  S10: that he was alive again, uh, three days later. Now
• 34:16
  S10: that I mean grammatically works really well. And he shows
• 34:21
  S10: examples in Josephus where he uses that same verb fino
• 34:25
  S10: to mean that it appeared to them to be. And
• 34:29
  S10: suddenly we think, oh, Josephus really could have written every
• 34:34
  S10: word in this paragraph. Fascinating.
• 34:36
  S4: John Dixon, our guest right now. Okay, so explain why
• 34:41
  S4: this is so significant. Why is this discovery or this,
• 34:45
  S4: maybe this relooking at something differently than scholars had looked
• 34:49
  S4: at it for quite a long time. Why so significant
• 34:52
  S4: for the person listening right now?
• 34:54
  S10: Um, at one level, it's not right because historians, secular
• 34:59
  S10: historians already knew Jesus lived. We already knew he was
• 35:03
  S10: a famous teacher healer who was crucified. I mean, even
• 35:06
  S10: my secular colleagues in the classics department at Oxford University
• 35:11
  S10: or the ancient history department at Macquarie University all agree
• 35:14
  S10: Jesus was a real figure. So knowing that Josephus also
• 35:19
  S10: wrote about him just seems like, oh yeah, sure, it's
• 35:22
  S10: not that surprising that a Jew might mention the same facts. However,
• 35:27
  S10: because there's been really a scholarly consensus for over half
• 35:31
  S10: a century that this paragraph from Josephus has been played
• 35:36
  S10: with by later Christians, because that was such a consensus.
• 35:40
  S10: When someone comes out and gives an argument as strong
• 35:44
  S10: as Schmidt's argument, we all scratch our heads and go,
• 35:47
  S10: how can we miss that? And so it's significant in
• 35:50
  S10: the sense that it allows us a way of seeing
• 35:57
  S10: a passage. We thought about one way as being completely different.
• 36:02
  S10: And so it's we're yet to see how widely convinced
• 36:08
  S10: scholars will be. But I can say, as someone who
• 36:13
  S10: has taught this in the classroom for 25 years and
• 36:18
  S10: taught the scholarly consensus. I have to admit to my students,
• 36:23
  S10: I may well have been wrong for the last 25 years.
• 36:27
  S10: I think there's a decent chance, I think in that
• 36:30
  S10: article you mentioned, I say 78% chance that Josephus wrote
• 36:36
  S10: this whole thing. In other words, we have confirmation from
• 36:40
  S10: a non-Christian in the first century that Jesus was a
• 36:44
  S10: famous teacher, healer, crucified under Pontius Pilate, and that from
• 36:50
  S10: the very beginning his disciples declared him to be the
• 36:54
  S10: resurrected Messiah. That is the outline of Jesus life from
• 36:58
  S10: the Gospels. But I love it from someone who wasn't
• 37:00
  S10: a Christian.
• 37:01
  S6: John Dixon, our guest right now. Prophet Wheaton, been all
• 37:04
  S6: over the world, um, scholar and knows scholars. How are
• 37:08
  S6: scholars responding to this?
• 37:11
  S10: Uh, pretty well. All the anti-Christian apologists are pretty angry
• 37:17
  S10: and they come out with all guns blazing, but they're
• 37:20
  S10: not really part of the scholarly conversation. Uh, real scholars
• 37:25
  S10: have begun to review Schmidt's book and saying, actually, there's
• 37:30
  S10: a lot here we need to rethink. They're not all
• 37:33
  S10: saying he's absolutely right yet, but, uh, he has done
• 37:38
  S10: more than throw a cat amongst the pigeons. Boy, I
• 37:41
  S10: hope your Americans use that expression. Have I just confused
• 37:44
  S10: you with that expression?
• 37:45
  S11: I love it.
• 37:46
  S10: Okay, you throw a cat amongst the pigeons. You know,
• 37:49
  S10: you can picture it, right? Yeah. He has. He's done
• 37:51
  S10: more than that. He's done more than that. He's given
• 37:52
  S10: us some real juicy meat to chew on. And, um,
• 37:58
  S10: scholars are responding really positively about this. Schmidt should be very, um,
• 38:04
  S10: very happy with the response.
• 38:07
  S6: I love this. This is a great discussion. I think
• 38:09
  S6: in short, uh, this bolsters an apologetic from historical. From antiquity. Right?
• 38:16
  S10: It does. But as I as I stress, most historians
• 38:20
  S10: that aren't trying to disprove Christianity nor prove it, already
• 38:24
  S10: knew that Jesus lived and taught and was a famous
• 38:28
  S10: healer and died. Uh, they they would be skeptical about
• 38:32
  S10: the resurrection. But even most secular scholars think that the
• 38:37
  S10: Christians thought that he'd been raised to life very shortly
• 38:40
  S10: after the events. So the broad outline of Jesus life
• 38:43
  S10: was already sort of in history circles, regarded as factual. Um, so,
• 38:49
  S10: so you're right that this sort of bolsters it a
• 38:52
  S10: little bit, but I don't want to overplay the significance
• 38:54
  S10: because one of the best kept secrets, uh, out there,
• 38:58
  S10: even amongst Christians, is that the Gospels are regarded as
• 39:01
  S10: genuine historical documents by secular historians.
• 39:05
  S11: I love that.
• 39:07
  S6: We got to get this guy back, but boy, have
• 39:09
  S6: we got a link for you. Now, this this is
• 39:11
  S6: not nerdy stuff. When you read this overview from John Dixon,
• 39:15
  S6: you're going to understand why.
• 39:17
  S4: Yeah. Just text the word apology to 800 555 7898
• 39:23
  S4: apology to 800 555 7898 comes out of the title.
• 39:27
  S4: I might owe my students an apology about Josephus. Apology
• 39:32
  S4: to 800 555, 7898.
• 39:35
  S1: She was trying to earn her way to God, but
• 39:37
  S1: God showed her she didn't have to. Ali is in
• 39:41
  S1: the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 39:45
  S6: What if we made a metric shift? Not that. Numbers. Nickels. Noses.
• 39:57
  S6: Not that those are a problem. You gotta count them.
• 40:01
  S6: But what if we made a whole hearted shift to
• 40:05
  S6: measuring disciple making? We talked about that before. Here. Ali.
• 40:09
  S4: Yeah, because, I mean, what you you measure what matters, right? Yes.
• 40:13
  S4: You know, I have this conversation with my kids a
• 40:15
  S4: lot because they're ones in seventh grade, ones in 11th grade.
• 40:18
  S4: And they both, as most students do, they kind of
• 40:20
  S4: fixate on their grades. They get ready for the progress
• 40:23
  S4: report that comes out, you know, a couple times a year,
• 40:25
  S4: and then the report cards and I've told them all along,
• 40:28
  S4: I am really not all that concerned with with your grades.
• 40:32
  S4: If you are getting all A's, but you're not working
• 40:35
  S4: your hardest, I'm not going to be. I would rather
• 40:38
  S4: you work harder. There's more for you to give if
• 40:40
  S4: your best work gets you AB1 semester. I'm also not
• 40:44
  S4: that concerned about that.
• 40:45
  S11: Way to go, mom.
• 40:46
  S4: And so I've.
• 40:46
  S11: Tried to.
• 40:47
  S4: Be consistent that the thing that matters most to me
• 40:50
  S4: is the kind of student you are in the classroom,
• 40:52
  S4: that you're giving your best effort, that you're a blessing
• 40:55
  S4: to your teachers and your classmates. The grades I'm that's
• 40:58
  S4: not what we are primarily measuring when we consider how
• 41:01
  S4: you're doing at school. And so I think what we measure,
• 41:06
  S4: we can miss it if we focus on the wrong thing.
• 41:09
  S6: Yeah. Right on. Now, I want to go to bat
• 41:12
  S6: for your young son, because he's in that middle school
• 41:15
  S6: years kind of range and that kind of. And there's
• 41:17
  S6: a little squirrelly ness that got put into all those
• 41:19
  S6: boys that age. Very.
• 41:22
  S2: I don't know what you're talking about.
• 41:24
  S4: 13 years.
• 41:25
  S6: Old. Oh, man. When you're 13, you know, God just
• 41:28
  S6: puts you. It's just it's not even middle middle age.
• 41:32
  S6: It's not middle school age. It's it's just it's just
• 41:35
  S6: squirrel age.
• 41:37
  S5: Yeah.
• 41:37
  S6: It's just squirrel. Oh, yeah. And no, I'm going to
• 41:41
  S6: speak for boys because I was in that camp. You
• 41:43
  S6: can't avoid it. You do stuff that sometimes. I remember
• 41:47
  S6: going to mom one time saying, I don't know why
• 41:50
  S6: I did that. I don't know why. It's like something
• 41:53
  S6: overcame me, mom.
• 41:54
  S4: And then as a parent, you make the mistake of going,
• 41:56
  S4: why in the world did you do that thinking that
• 41:59
  S4: you're going to get some sort of reasonable response? No. Well,
• 42:02
  S4: the reason why I did X, Y, or Z, which
• 42:06
  S4: was nonsensical.
• 42:08
  S2: When I was, uh, 13 or 14, my, my school
• 42:11
  S2: had this, uh, this like movie, movie competition where we
• 42:16
  S2: all like made home movies and, and then they would
• 42:20
  S2: play in front of all the kids who made movies and,
• 42:22
  S2: you know, went to this big assembly thing and me
• 42:25
  S2: and my friends made a movie. And when I was
• 42:27
  S2: filming the movie, I thought this was just the most
• 42:29
  S2: hilarious thing in the entire world. And it was me
• 42:32
  S2: at my smallest. And, and I get in there and
• 42:36
  S2: they start playing it. And I looked and I said,
• 42:39
  S2: why did I, why did I do this? This was
• 42:42
  S2: the worst idea I've ever had in my entire life.
• 42:44
  S2: And so I got up and I went into the
• 42:46
  S2: bathroom and I waited until it was over because I
• 42:48
  S2: couldn't bear to look at it. I was like, this
• 42:51
  S2: is the worst decision I've ever made in my entire life.
• 42:55
  S4: Benefit of a little bit of.
• 42:56
  S2: And I'm 30, I'm 30, and I look back on
• 42:58
  S2: it and it still makes me cringe when I think
• 43:00
  S2: about it. I just like, oh man, that's the worst
• 43:03
  S2: thing ever, man.
• 43:05
  S6: Oh that's good.
• 43:06
  S2: Oh boy.
• 43:07
  S6: Oh, what if that's where we're going here this whole week?
• 43:11
  S6: What if. And by the way, tomorrow we're going to
• 43:12
  S6: have a powerful what if day. What if we got
• 43:15
  S6: behind a global partnership that you saw the dial move
• 43:20
  S6: with very little investment. And it's so cool. I think
• 43:24
  S6: in practical terms, man, when you see someone really focused
• 43:28
  S6: on the right thing, you just want to get behind it,
• 43:32
  S6: don't you?
• 43:32
  S4: Absolutely. Because when you can hone in on that, especially
• 43:38
  S4: when we're talking kingdom principles.
• 43:40
  S6: Oh my goodness, it's so good. Okay, so coming up
• 43:44
  S6: here in a couple of minutes, what if we really
• 43:47
  S6: went after discipleship? What in the world would that look like?
• 43:52
  S6: What would the fruit of that be? You guys ready
• 43:56
  S6: to rumble here today?
• 43:57
  S12: Let's do it. What if you.
• 43:58
  S4: Measured the thing that really matters most?
• 44:01
  S1: He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you
• 44:04
  S1: can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's
• 44:09
  S1: Curl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 44:12
  S6: So here's the deal. You might want to say, man,
• 44:15
  S6: you guys are hammering discipleship a lot. Let me go
• 44:18
  S6: to our hallmark passage here to prove why. Here it is.
• 44:23
  S6: Titus 211 and 12, you might say. Oh, I thought
• 44:26
  S6: you were going to go to second Timothy two two. Yeah,
• 44:28
  S6: that's that's what we're called to do. But here's the
• 44:30
  S6: blue sky vision of why to do it. Think about this.
• 44:34
  S6: I don't know that we've directly said this is grace
• 44:37
  S6: is a means of discipleship. And it's buried right here
• 44:41
  S6: in this passage. I don't know if we've gone after
• 44:43
  S6: it that way, but here it is. For the grace
• 44:45
  S6: of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people. Com-a
• 44:49
  S6: training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and live self-controlled,
• 44:54
  S6: upright and godly lives in this present age, waiting for
• 44:58
  S6: our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our
• 45:01
  S6: great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Here's what's. You know what?
• 45:05
  S6: Discipleship is. Discipleship is everything after the comma. Grace of
• 45:09
  S6: God saves us, comma. The grace of God trains us
• 45:13
  S6: to renounce ungodliness, worldly passions, and self-controlled godly lives in
• 45:17
  S6: this present age, without discipleship, everything past the comma. Ali
• 45:21
  S6: ain't happening, sister.
• 45:22
  S12: That's a good.
• 45:23
  S4: Point. And I love that use of the word training
• 45:26
  S4: that that that grace, that God's grace that trains us
• 45:30
  S4: to live godly lives. I mean, that is a process.
• 45:34
  S6: Yeah. And it's beautiful. Doctor Jared Nelms come on man,
• 45:38
  S6: give us before we do a full introduction here, give
• 45:41
  S6: us a vision for why discipleship really does change everything.
• 45:46
  S6: You've got some stories right?
• 45:48
  S13: Yeah, definitely. I think at core to the the central
• 45:52
  S13: focus of the Great Commission is to go and make
• 45:55
  S13: disciples of all nations. And what we're seeing today is
• 45:59
  S13: people that have been trapped in bondage, Locked behind bars, struggling, addicted,
• 46:06
  S13: experiencing the love and salvation found only in Jesus Christ
• 46:11
  S13: and that leading to transformation that not only changes one life,
• 46:16
  S13: but leads to a ripple effect of changing villages and
• 46:20
  S13: neighborhoods and communities, and ultimately, the spreading of the gospel
• 46:24
  S13: around the world.
• 46:25
  S4: Jared Nelms, our guest this morning. He serves as president
• 46:28
  S4: and CEO at the Timothy Initiative, where discipleship is absent.
• 46:34
  S4: What is lost?
• 46:35
  S6: Oh, that's a sorry. I'm going to interrupt right there.
• 46:38
  S6: That's a great question, Ali.
• 46:40
  S13: I think the the power of the gospel is found in, uh,
• 46:45
  S13: something that's hard to explain. And I think Jesus was
• 46:50
  S13: very clear. We have been called to go and make disciples,
• 46:53
  S13: and he is the one who will build his church.
• 46:56
  S13: So what is lost is the core of the strategy
• 46:59
  S13: of God.
• 47:01
  S6: Wow, That's a powerful statement, Jared. Yeah. You know, it's interesting.
• 47:06
  S6: I've been wrestling with this ever since I met you
• 47:08
  S6: and your dad and T.I and been exposed to this.
• 47:12
  S6: It's so challenging, Jared. And it's so encouraging because I
• 47:17
  S6: think every person out there, if we go back to
• 47:20
  S6: Titus two, I hadn't even planned on this, but it's
• 47:22
  S6: such a passage. I think everyone listening right now and
• 47:26
  S6: even those precious folks I met in Kenya, if you
• 47:29
  S6: if you tell them grace can save you, but it
• 47:33
  S6: can also train you. That's now the process of discipleship
• 47:37
  S6: to renounce ungodliness, worldly passions, to live self-controlled, upright, and
• 47:41
  S6: godly lives in this present age. I think everybody out
• 47:46
  S6: there screams, yes, I want that! And we sell short
• 47:51
  S6: that potential, don't we, Jared? If we are just preaching
• 47:55
  S6: salvation to people and not discipleship through God's grace, explain
• 48:00
  S6: that from your vantage point.
• 48:03
  S13: I think it's interesting. You started in in Titus. If
• 48:06
  S13: you continue on to to verse 15, there's a really
• 48:11
  S13: important point that's made there which says encourage the believers
• 48:16
  S13: to do them. So it's not just about teaching to
• 48:21
  S13: do these things, but actually following through. And one of the,
• 48:25
  S13: the core elements that we focus on is faithfulness. And
• 48:31
  S13: the reality is faithfulness is really defined by knowing, doing,
• 48:38
  S13: and training others to do the same. And in the West,
• 48:42
  S13: in America, we often focus on discipleship as teaching or
• 48:47
  S13: knowing things about God, and we fail to put them
• 48:51
  S13: into practice and even more so, fail to train others
• 48:55
  S13: to do the same. And what Titus 215 is saying
• 48:59
  S13: there is teach these things and encourage the believers to
• 49:03
  S13: do them.
• 49:04
  S6: Yeah.
• 49:05
  S12: Wow.
• 49:05
  S4: Doctor Jared Nelms, give us a little snapshot of your
• 49:09
  S4: own of your own story. How did God capture your heart? Obviously,
• 49:13
  S4: we know that your dad is rich in faith, pastored
• 49:15
  S4: for many years. When did God really grab Ahold of you?
• 49:19
  S13: Yeah, I was in the bush in southern Africa, a
• 49:23
  S13: country called Zambia. And we were I was with a
• 49:26
  S13: group of young adults, and we were out showing the
• 49:29
  S13: Jesus film to a tribe and a village that had
• 49:32
  S13: never heard the name of Jesus. And I was a
• 49:36
  S13: bit far from the faith. I was a bit of
• 49:38
  S13: a prodigal growing up in the church. I knew God
• 49:42
  S13: was real, but I hadn't really had a relationship with him.
• 49:46
  S13: And as the team was showing the Jesus film, God
• 49:50
  S13: spoke to me in that moment in my faith became
• 49:53
  S13: more real than it had ever been. And since that moment,
• 49:58
  S13: I've wanted nothing more to do than to be used
• 50:00
  S13: by God.
• 50:02
  S6: Jared, that's a beautiful story, dude. Jared is, um. He's
• 50:07
  S6: a tall guy. When I first met him, I thought.
• 50:09
  S6: Reminds me of my son. He's up there. He's up there, man. Um,
• 50:14
  S6: but a great heart. And that heart has led to
• 50:18
  S6: leadership of t I. And we're going to have a
• 50:20
  S6: couple of days here, guys, that we're going to jump
• 50:22
  S6: in and watch God do something amazing here. We're going
• 50:25
  S6: to we're going to get behind T isn't that going
• 50:28
  S6: to be cool? Ali. Yes, but coming up here, um,
• 50:31
  S6: after a couple of minutes here, Jared, I want to
• 50:33
  S6: get after something that it's hard to hear it, but
• 50:38
  S6: I think we look at discipleship and we, we want
• 50:42
  S6: to lower the bar so that we can get more
• 50:45
  S6: and more people over it, meaning less commitment and not
• 50:49
  S6: so much time, you know, how can we what's the
• 50:51
  S6: minimum viable product we've got to do to get people
• 50:55
  S6: kind of down the path? And then I go to
• 50:58
  S6: Kenya and I'm meeting these guys and gals and I'm going. Oh,
• 51:02
  S6: they're spending five, six hours a week poring through the
• 51:07
  S6: Word of God, getting coached, mentored, discipled. So we're going
• 51:12
  S6: to get some facts and figures. We're going to get
• 51:13
  S6: really honest about this because, you know, training, which is
• 51:17
  S6: what we find in Titus two. Ali, it implies some
• 51:21
  S6: kind of sweat equity here, right? A little bit, a
• 51:23
  S6: little bit. We'll break it down. Jared. Now a special
• 51:26
  S6: guest straight ahead.
• 51:28
  S1: He was sharing the gospel on the radio and then
• 51:31
  S1: he got saved. Young thunders in the crew. It's Karl
• 51:35
  S1: and crew on Moody Radio.
• 51:38
  S6: Jared Nelms, doctor Jared Nelms, our guest right now, he's
• 51:41
  S6: the president and CEO of the Timothy Initiative. More on
• 51:44
  S6: the details of that and how we can partner with them.
• 51:47
  S6: But I got to tell you, Jared, I was so
• 51:51
  S6: I'm still so inspired by not only your work, but
• 51:54
  S6: the work of God's grace and mercy and the movement
• 51:57
  S6: of the spirit in different regions of the world where
• 52:00
  S6: you're working, especially where I was at in the northern
• 52:03
  S6: kind of shores of Kenya, man. Amazing. But here's the
• 52:07
  S6: thing that stuck with me, and that is out of
• 52:11
  S6: a good intention. Many pastors, leaders, parents, you name it,
• 52:16
  S6: the kind of the ecosystem of discipleship in America is
• 52:20
  S6: we try to get everybody into the hoop and wharf
• 52:24
  S6: of discipleship. So we have a class or we have
• 52:26
  S6: a we have a preaching series, and then we're we're
• 52:29
  S6: kind of done. All right. Now we're all disciples. Discipleship, brother.
• 52:34
  S6: It's work, isn't it? And speak to that for a second.
• 52:38
  S13: Yeah, I think there's what you're honing in on is
• 52:42
  S13: there's a, a constant pull to shape Christianity after our
• 52:47
  S13: own desires instead of God's. And somehow unintentionally, I think
• 52:54
  S13: we have taken Jesus's command of take up your cross
• 53:00
  S13: and follow me. And we've somehow turned that into give
• 53:04
  S13: me your life and I will make all your dreams
• 53:06
  S13: come true. And the reality is, the promise is that
• 53:10
  S13: you get God. Not all of your dreams come true.
• 53:14
  S13: And that is so much more valuable than having having
• 53:17
  S13: a relationship with God. So I think the gospel in
• 53:22
  S13: grace is not opposed to effort. It's opposed to earning.
• 53:26
  S13: We don't earn any righteousness with God. He gives that
• 53:30
  S13: by grace we are saved through faith. However, the gospel
• 53:33
  S13: is not opposed to effort. Jesus said, take up your
• 53:37
  S13: cross and follow me.
• 53:39
  S4: Doctor Jared Nelms from the Timothy Initiative with us this morning.
• 53:42
  S4: Let's talk about the effort aspect of it. When you
• 53:45
  S4: approach discipleship with the model that Ty has laid out globally,
• 53:50
  S4: what does that look like practically? Talk a little bit
• 53:52
  S4: about the training that goes into the discipleship.
• 53:58
  S13: Yeah, it's, it's really based on a simple idea of just,
• 54:02
  S13: just imagine a three legged stool in your mind. Uh,
• 54:06
  S13: it's easy to understand. Each of the legs of the
• 54:09
  S13: stool represent three aspects of what it means to be
• 54:13
  S13: a faithful disciple of Jesus. Knowing, doing, and sharing. So
• 54:20
  S13: knowing is what does the Bible say? What does Jesus
• 54:23
  S13: call us to do? Jesus said, if you love me,
• 54:26
  S13: you will obey my commands. So to obey his commands,
• 54:30
  S13: we first have to know what they are. Secondly, is
• 54:33
  S13: the doing. We move from knowledge in our head to
• 54:38
  S13: action in our hands and our feet. Obviously, this is
• 54:42
  S13: based on a love in Christ. Jesus obviously says to
• 54:47
  S13: abide in his love, and as a result of that,
• 54:51
  S13: we will go and bear fruit. So we know and
• 54:54
  S13: we do. However, discipleship is not just about me. Jesus
• 54:59
  S13: has empowered us and sent us to go and proclaim
• 55:02
  S13: the gospel to the world. So everything that I know,
• 55:05
  S13: everything I'm doing in obedience to Christ, I'm also called
• 55:10
  S13: to share that with other people so that they can know,
• 55:13
  S13: so that they can do and they can share with
• 55:15
  S13: others also.
• 55:16
  S6: Okay, this is one of the coolest, simple little three
• 55:20
  S6: legged illustrations I've ever heard, isn't it, Ali?
• 55:22
  S4: Very much so.
• 55:23
  S6: Okay, so here's where we're stuck. Jared and, and I,
• 55:27
  S6: I think you would being raised in America, you would
• 55:29
  S6: get this. We are basically hung up on that first leg.
• 55:33
  S6: We're good on preaching and helping people knowing that next
• 55:37
  S6: step of doing. We're struggling. But there's there's been a
• 55:40
  S6: resurgence of this. But here's what's interesting. That sharing piece,
• 55:45
  S6: that's a huge deal. And here's what's wild, Jared. And
• 55:49
  S6: I'm just I just want a mosh pit with you
• 55:52
  S6: guys for a second. Here. Here's what's wild. Here's what's wild.
• 55:55
  S6: Brain scientists know that the greatest thing we can do
• 56:00
  S6: is get out of ourselves if we're in a funk.
• 56:03
  S6: Isn't that wild? So is this this three legged stool
• 56:07
  S6: when I'm. I'm at this baptism in Kenya, 50 folks
• 56:10
  S6: getting baptized, and I look across the back row of
• 56:13
  S6: these guys and usually the back row of guys, they're
• 56:16
  S6: the ones that are screwing around in America, right? The
• 56:18
  S6: back row. These guys, these are young men. They're in
• 56:21
  S6: the back row. Why? Because they can get more focused intent.
• 56:25
  S6: Their faces look like we're in this thing. I mean,
• 56:29
  S6: the earnestness was huge. So I think for all of
• 56:33
  S6: us here, we know knowing, we know doing championed the
• 56:37
  S6: sharing and how you've seen that impact the practical lives
• 56:41
  S6: of people that you minister to around the globe.
• 56:44
  S13: I think as we see the hand of God and
• 56:48
  S13: the work of God in our midst. It's really hard
• 56:52
  S13: when you find this treasure, this thing that transforms your life,
• 56:59
  S13: this thing that has changed your perspective and ultimately your eternity.
• 57:05
  S13: How can you not want to share that with other people?
• 57:09
  S13: And when you're dealing with people that are coming from, uh, darkness,
• 57:13
  S13: living in context of foreign religions and worshiping gods and
• 57:18
  S13: having no hope and living in darkness, once you see
• 57:22
  S13: the light, once you receive Jesus, how can I not
• 57:25
  S13: share that with my brothers and sisters? So when you,
• 57:29
  S13: when you reach people in that place, they can't help
• 57:33
  S13: but tell other people, yeah.
• 57:35
  S4: Doctor Jared Nelms, give us a story to to close
• 57:38
  S4: this out here as you've been doing this work overseeing
• 57:42
  S4: this ministry, give us a story that you've seen recently
• 57:45
  S4: that really encouraged you.
• 57:47
  S13: Yeah. In Southeast Asia, in a in a Buddhist context,
• 57:51
  S13: there was a young man that struggled with some sort
• 57:54
  S13: of oppression or mental instability, and they took him to doctors.
• 57:59
  S13: They took him to which doctors and healers, everything they
• 58:03
  S13: tried couldn't work. And ultimately they ended up. The only
• 58:08
  S13: solution was to build a cage and to put him inside.
• 58:13
  S13: And so for 21 years, this man lived inside a cage, struggling, desperate.
• 58:19
  S13: His his mother sought every possible solution until one day
• 58:24
  S13: they heard about an average ordinary believer who prayed in
• 58:30
  S13: the name of Jesus. And things changed. So they asked
• 58:33
  S13: this young guy to come over. Could you pray for
• 58:36
  S13: this guy that's been in the cage, the man in
• 58:38
  S13: the cage? So he said, sure, I would love to.
• 58:41
  S13: Long story short, he goes to the village. He finds
• 58:43
  S13: the man in the cage desperate. The man doesn't really
• 58:47
  S13: react until he starts praying in the name of Jesus
• 58:50
  S13: and the man starts listening. The man prays for him.
• 58:53
  S13: He is delivered. He's ultimately taken out of the cage.
• 58:57
  S13: He has received Christ. He's been baptized, and now he
• 59:00
  S13: is a disciple that is going and making disciples in
• 59:03
  S13: all the surrounding villages.
• 59:05
  S12: Wow.
• 59:06
  S6: Okay, okay, we can shut the show down today.
• 59:12
  S14: It's incredible what God's doing.
• 59:13
  S6: Oh, Jared, that's like walking streets with Jesus type story
• 59:18
  S6: right there. Ali.
• 59:19
  S4: Yeah, man, that is so encouraging.
• 59:23
  S6: Okay, let's point people to him. They can at least
• 59:26
  S6: learn more. Hold on to your shekels. We're going to
• 59:28
  S6: have a party in here for 48 hours. But my goodness, Ali,
• 59:32
  S6: how can folks find out more about TT?
• 59:34
  S4: You can text disciple to (800) 555-7898. AutoCorrect should help you
• 59:40
  S4: out on this one. Text disciple to (800) 555-7898.