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Episode Twentysix - Stephen King · Haunted Ozark Theater

0:18
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Haunted Ozark Theater H O T.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: Your Hot Horror Podcast.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: This is Paul.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: And Cody, why don't you say hi to the crowd?
0:28
SPEAKER_02: How's everyone doing out there in Podcast Land?
0:31
SPEAKER_02: Podcast or TikTok too, maybe.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm glad you brought that up.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: TikTok has been doing us right.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: Um we've been getting tons of views on TikTok, and I've been seeing our downloads increasing every week since we started posting to TikTok.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: So kudos to my daughter Julia.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: And I'm going to tip my head to Paul.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: I really think it's that voice you got.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: You got the little twinge in your voice really gets them going.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's been a good thing.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: So that's awesome.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm happy to say that it's been working in our favor.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and thank thank your daughter for me, Post.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: I will.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: I definitely will.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: Um let's do today in Horror History.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: What do you got for us, Mr.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: Paul?
1:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's funny because we just talked about this last week.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: Today is the release day for Shauna the Dead.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: Oh, cool.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: Believe it or not, and we brought Shauna the Dead up kind of in a you know, we weren't even really talking about uh crazies, yeah, okay.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: And how the zombie boom happened, and you said, Do you what do you think?
1:32
SPEAKER_02: Do you think Shauna the Dead really helped kick that off?
1:34
SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, that's a great point.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, I um because today is Shauna the Dead Day, and because we had that conversation, I actually did a little research on what did kick that craze off.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: And it didn't point to any specific movie, but there was a guy who's a film critic, and he said that actually has more to do with 9-11, believe it or not.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: Here's exactly what he said.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: This is his quote.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: The renaissance of the subgenre reveals a connection between zombie cinema and post-9-11 cultural consciousness.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: Horror films function as barometers of society's anxieties, and zombie movies represent the inescapable realities of unnatural death while presenting a grim view of the modern apocalypse.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Zombie films can shock and terrify a population that has become numb to other horror subgenres.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: So I guess that's a pretty dang good point.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: He's saying that's pretty good.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's saying, like uh when we experienced 9-11, we kind of collectively experienced a modern apocalypse, and it made us numb.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that got through that numbness and and actually, you know, uh resonated with us were zombie movies.
3:02
SPEAKER_02: Because of the living dead.
3:03
SPEAKER_02: Maybe we were all a little living dead around that time.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: So I thought that was interesting.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: That was that's really cool.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: Good fine, my man.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a little quote for you, and and once again celebrate a little shine of the dead.
3:16
SPEAKER_02: Where do you rank that as horror comedy?
3:18
SPEAKER_02: Is it top?
3:18
SPEAKER_02: That's one of the best.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's definitely one of the best.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: And I'll I've loved the the what it's really trying to say too, because how long through that movie do they go before they realize they're zombies?
3:28
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
3:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's like what's that say about us?
3:31
SPEAKER_01: The funniest right.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: The funniest parts of that movie are like you said at the beginning, where Sean's walking to the supermarket and the outbreak has already happened.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he's totally unaware.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: Yes, totally unaware because he's so we're all we, he is, and we are all so self-centered and focused on our own selves.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: And I love that whole, I think it's like on one shot, but he goes to the grocery store walking down the street, and that's you know, I think that's awesome.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: That is, I think it is one shot.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: I like just one continued shot, and it's it's really good.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, great movie.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: What have you been re-watching?
4:08
SPEAKER_02: Dude, I got three.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: Two I'm just gonna name off real quick.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: Um uh Fear Street 1994.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: Watched that with my niece, and um, she never seen it, loved it.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: And number two was Halloween 2009 Rob Sogwys.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: And if anyone disagrees that that's not one of the best, I'm willing to fight you out in my front yard.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: I think it's a masterpiece.
4:32
SPEAKER_02: I think it's everything Halloween should be.
4:34
SPEAKER_02: That's enough of that.
4:34
SPEAKER_02: And number three, I wanted to talk to you about this movie because it's my second time.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: No, you love it.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: I'm not sold on it, and it's together.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
4:43
SPEAKER_02: I just I watched it with my oldest, my 17-year-old, because she loves it.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: And I tried, and I tried to like this movie, and it's just it's body whore.
4:55
SPEAKER_02: That's not my cup of tea.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: And I even like I really wanted to like it.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: Just didn't do anything for you.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: Didn't even have any deaths in it, dude.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: I guess if the the the couple that goes missing at the very beginning.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: But they're mutated and they're alive at the end.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's true.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's true.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: And I just it kind of freaked me out how they mute their as one, and yeah, I don't like stuff like that.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: It makes me feel really weird, Paul.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: Graphics are awesome, in it.
5:22
SPEAKER_02: The acting's great.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: I just it's not my kind of lore.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: I'll leave that to you.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I'm definitely the body horror guy between the two of us.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: But you ranked that really high, didn't you?
5:32
SPEAKER_01: Out of last year's movies, it was in my top five.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: But we all we also agreed that 2025 was kind of a dead of a year.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: Wasn't the best.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't, I don't think that diminishes what Together accomplished.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: Together, I thought was really good.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: But um you're right, it's it's not your conventional thing, especially if you're more geared towards like slashers and stuff.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: And and that's just my brain.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: Nothing to that film, it's just it's not for me.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, understood for me.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: Understood.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: What about you?
6:06
SPEAKER_01: I uh was just thumbing through articles.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: I guess you can't even say thumbing through anymore.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: It makes it sound like I was reading a magazine.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: Um I was fli scrolling through articles.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: Um I saw that HBO Max quietly started streaming the assembly cut of Alien 3.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh, there you go.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: And if you don't know what the assembly cut is, it's the closest to Fincher's vision that they have been able to come up with.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: And why I say it like that is because uh now everyone knows, everyone who knows about Alien knows that Alien 3 is kind of the redheaded stepchild of all the movies, and that most of the people involved with the production of it has kind of have kind of distanced themselves from it because it was so ill received.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Did Ron Perlman?
7:04
SPEAKER_01: Have you seen it?
7:05
SPEAKER_01: Has he?
7:06
SPEAKER_01: You're thinking of Resurrection.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I'm sorry, my bad.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Um so I guess in their early 2000s they actually approached Fincher to do a director's cut, and he refused.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: But they had his notes from the editing room, and so they used his notes to as close as they could recreate his original vision for the film.
7:33
SPEAKER_02: How does that work?
7:35
SPEAKER_01: So that's why they're calling it the assembly cut rather than the director's cut.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: But supposedly this is the closest you get to his version, his his version.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: And have you and when has this come out?
7:47
SPEAKER_01: It's out, and I watched it.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: And what do you think?
7:49
SPEAKER_01: Is it it's better, it's a better film for sure.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: The first 20 minutes, I'd say, are entirely different.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: Does it change the whole tone of the movie?
7:58
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it really does in a good way.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: I'd say so.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: It's still the red-headed stepchild, unfortunately.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: Nothing's gonna change that, nothing's gonna change that.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: It's it just feels so different from all the alien stuff that came before it and all the alien stuff that came after it.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: It's just its own thing, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
8:20
SPEAKER_02: And I'm glad you said that because it feels like every horror franchise has that movie.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, what were they thinking?
8:26
SPEAKER_02: Where did I mean at all when we curse of Michael Meyer?
8:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, where were they going?
8:31
SPEAKER_02: And usually it's these young directors going, hey, we got put in this situation, we had nothing to go with, so this is what we made up.
8:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sue us.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, this was not even a case of that.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, I guess there was like five different versions of the script written that were all entirely different from one another.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, had nothing one didn't have anything to do with the other.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: And the studio really never um like put the full force of their power behind any one of the scripts, and so then it got to the point where they had hired Fincher and they had like started the wheels rolling, and they were were on a deadline, and basically said, We gotta start doing this thing.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: And Fincher was like, We don't have a script.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: And the studio apparently said, Well, take the best parts from each script and put them together.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: So it's like it literally is like that's why stuff.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: It's like five different movies kind of just cut and pasted together.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: What were they thinking?
9:43
SPEAKER_00: How do you get away with that?
9:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
9:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm surprised that anybody allowed that to happen.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: But it happens a lot, I'm guessing.
9:53
SPEAKER_02: That probably happens a lot more than we know.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: Probably because of ultimately it's just driven by dollars and cents.
10:00
SPEAKER_02: Money, money, money.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: Part one was critically huge.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: Part two was critically and commercially huge.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, we gotta make another one, you know.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: But they never really did their due diligence in doing what it takes to make it quality, make the next one quality.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: And it was, yeah, it's have you seen a lot of what David Fincher has to say about that?
10:28
SPEAKER_02: Does he I don't think he talks about it.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: He not at all.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it was his debut film.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: He's a kid when he made that film.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: So that's and he's one of the I mean, he is a great director, dude.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: And I I'm kind of surprised that he even survived the experience, you know.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm surprised he wasn't so uh traumatized by that.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and just like uh discouraged by the whole process that he's easy to do.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: I might have turned my back on Hollywood altogether if I were him, you know.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, anyway, the assembly cut is on HBO Max if you want to watch it.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: Um it's definitely different than the Alien 3 you remember.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's diff different in a good way, but it's still a weird movie.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: It's just a weird movie as far as how it sits in with all the other ones.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: Would you like to forget that it exists?
11:23
SPEAKER_02: Can you watch those and go, well, we're skipping three and still no, not necessarily because I I like some of the things that they did, you know.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: Like I think what they were trying to do.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, even like I think having Ripley with the queen inside of her, and then she sacrifices herself at the end.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: I think that was that's a smart move.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: I think that that's a logical place to go, considering where they had come from.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that was a logical step, you know, and then of course they bring her back through cloning in the next movie, which that makes sense in that world, you know.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: Um they did some things right, but they just it's just not it's not very cohesive.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: And the thing I kept thinking as I was watching it last night is it doesn't have an identity.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: It's a movie without an identity, no soul.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: There's no soul to that movie.
12:21
SPEAKER_02: That's it, right there, right?
12:22
SPEAKER_01: It really is just like an exercise in assembling a movie.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: Now, does you're the alien guy?
12:28
SPEAKER_02: Does this like for me with the Halloween franchise of the curse of Michael Myers gets a lot of hate, but there is a a big group of people who love that.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm one of them.
12:38
SPEAKER_02: Is three that way, or is it kind of just like everyone's like I think most people agree that it's not very good.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: I I think that I don't I don't personally know anybody who is like, yeah, three's my favorite.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: You don't hear that a lot.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: No, you don't hear that a lot.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: Okay, awesome.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, all right, so we're gonna talk about Stephen King.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: That's what we're talking about today.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: But I want to specifically talk about his books, not the movies.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: We talked, and I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about the movies because it's inevitable.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: But we decided that the other thing that was inevitable was that if we'd had a discussion about horror literature, we probably mostly end up talking about Stephen King.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean, who else?
13:18
SPEAKER_01: So why not just give Stephen King a whole episode?
13:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, but quickly I will say that and we've mentioned this before, Hollywood's brand new.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: Horror is one of the first things that they do.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: And where did they get their ideas for horror gothic literature?
13:40
SPEAKER_01: So, in a sense, um horror fiction, like the stuff that Stephen King does, is intrinsically linked to Hollywood day one, you know, in a in an interesting way.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: So you cannot uh completely divorce your discussion from uh the films.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: But Hollywood can't completely divorce itself from horror as much as they want to sometimes.
14:12
SPEAKER_02: I think they would really like to, yeah.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: So it's neat, it's a neat thing to talk about.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, so Stephen King, obviously, you know him, everybody knows him.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: However, I I was thinking about this.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: Unless you're really paying attention, you probably don't realize how well you know him if you're just a casual like movie watcher.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: A lot of people don't know that Shawshank is a Stephen King thing, right?
14:45
SPEAKER_01: That the Green Mile is a Stephen King thing, yeah.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: That Hearts in Atlantis is a Stephen King thing.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: Keep going, keep going.
14:51
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you can go on and on.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of things that like people are like, when they find out that that's that's Stephen King.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, so um unless again, like unless you're really paying attention, you have probably consumed more Stephen King than you realize.
15:07
SPEAKER_02: Right now there's one on Netflix, it's um 112263, and it's it was a really, really good, great book.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: My wife uh read the book and then watched the show, and of course I watched the show with her, and I thought it was great.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, that's a that's a prime example of one that you probably wouldn't suspect is is his, but it is.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: Um and uh he's just a great storyteller, and you can't, even though he's known as a horror author, you can't really just stop there and say that he's a horror writer.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: He's just a good storyteller and he's written a lot of stuff that isn't horror that's fantastic, and um written under a different name.
15:50
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you mean Richard Bachman, and he's got one book I that I love under that that I'll get to in a little bit.
15:57
SPEAKER_02: Well, tell us about it.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: It's Rage.
15:59
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
15:59
SPEAKER_02: Have you read it?
16:00
SPEAKER_02: That is one that I haven't.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: Now that's this kind of the sequel to Carrie, right?
16:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's a school shooter, and the kid holds a class hostage.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's uh there was there was a movie, there was Carrie 2.
16:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is just Rage, but publication.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: I always assumed that Carrie 2, the movie, was based on the book Rage.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: But it's not.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: No.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: Okay, good to know.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: So you should definitely check that out.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: I have not read that one.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: That's his we were just talking before we hit record.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, I made a list of everything that I've read by Stephen King, and I was astonished at how long the list is.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: But equally long is the list of stuff that he's written that I still haven't gotten around to reading yet.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: It would take a while.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: That's how prolific he is.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh, do you have a I'm pretty sure I'll go out on them.
16:53
SPEAKER_02: You your favorite Stephen King, the Dark Tower series?
16:57
SPEAKER_01: Oddly enough, not.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: No.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: You want me to tell you right now what my favorite is?
17:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: Wow, okay.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: I would have as much as you love Dark Tower.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: Dark Tower is my jam, for sure, and I'll talk about that here in a minute.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: But since you asked, what is my favorite Stephen King book?
17:14
SPEAKER_01: My favorite book is Needful Things.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: Great book.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: I read that book when I was younger, but then and then I well, I watched the movie first, then I read the book, and then I read it again probably four years ago.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: And I was just blown away.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: What was it?
17:35
SPEAKER_01: What a great book that is.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Just it's just a lot more that you picked up the second reading.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know how much I've talked about this on the podcast, but um in 2016 I went back to school and got my degree in English, uh, creative writing specifically.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: And I just um you know, I just learned a lot, obviously, as you do when you go get a degree.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: And when I started reading things post schooling, I just have a you know a new appreciation for certain things.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: And um Needful Things really jumped off the page at me when I read it four four years ago post graduation.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: And I think what I love about it is it the tapestry of characters and how what a story that book's telling.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: And how Gaunt pulls all of their strings and gets the whole he manipulates everybody.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: Everybody against everybody with those sheets and the what is it, the bird poop all over them around.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: He gets he gets the blames everyone to blame everyone else.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he gets everybody to play their part so that his will is done exactly the way he wants it to, but he doesn't lift a finger.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: And I I don't know, it's just it's a fantastic story.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: And the movie's great too.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: It um yeah, um, I think a great it it finds us at the right time in our life.
19:10
SPEAKER_02: The right you know what I mean?
19:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you just something clicks and you're like, this is the book I need right now.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think if you would have asked me 10 years ago, I wouldn't have said that.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't have gave me that response.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: But but now I I think meaningful things, like you said, it just spoke to me at the right time, and I I think that that is my favorite.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: Now, is it his best book?
19:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you can say that, but it's my favorite.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: And that's always going to be up to you know, totally objective, yeah.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: Well, since we're going on favorites, mine is not really horror at all.
19:44
SPEAKER_02: Uh it's more to do with uh courage and fate, integrity to survive.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, ever since I've had my first daughter back in 2008, this book means a lot to me.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: It's uh The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you said that.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: And I this it just holds.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: I've got two daughters, and this book means a lot to me, man.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that book.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad you've read it.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, oh yeah, I've read it and I love it.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: And I actually, the first true short story that I ever wrote on my own, that I actually finished.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, remember you tell me you wrote.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: I've written I've written a lot of stuff, and I for years I attempted to write a lot of stuff and was never able to finish anything.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: And that's part of the reason why I went back to school and and got my degree in English because I wanted to acquire the tools to help me finish the things that I was starting.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: And while I was in school, I finished my first short story.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: And it is, I didn't realize it as I was writing it, but now when I look back on it, it's basically it mirrors.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: It's my I was totally inspired by the girl who's come you probably your love letter to that almost without even realizing.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, I just wrote something that came natural to me, and when I was done with it and kind of stepped back and looked at it, I was like, oh, this is a lot like the girl who loved Tom Gordon.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like my version of it.
21:21
SPEAKER_02: But I'm a big, big fan of that story.
21:23
SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad you heard that.
21:24
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
21:25
SPEAKER_02: And I recommend that to any parent, but especially fathers who have daughters.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's it's a great little survivor survival tale.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: Um and it's just creepy enough, but it's not like terrifying.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: Not Stephen King terrifying, right?
21:43
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
21:45
SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
21:46
SPEAKER_02: But I I don't know, something about this book, I can always read it, and I I don't know.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm a big fan.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm a big fan of that book for sure.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh I want to talk about a couple of books that are nonfiction.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: That I want to recommend to anybody who maybe hasn't read it.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Um Stephen King, back early on, I think it was around 1980, he wrote a book called Don's Macab, which is uh dance dance with death is what it means in Latin.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: Um but it's his kind of overview of the state of horror at the time.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: And he talks about all things horror that exist in his world up until you know that point in life.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: So he wrote it in 1980, he was 30 probably when he wrote it, something like that.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: And he talks about all the movies and films and books and comics and things that influenced him up until that point.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: And it's great because it's like it's basically like a history of horror book, and it gives you all kinds of um things to go check out.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: If you and it's everything that influenced him, yeah, it's all the things that influenced him.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, Don's macabre, check it out.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: What was he into?
23:07
SPEAKER_01: Just a couple of things that a lot of like the the creature features that we talked about.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: Twilight Zone, yeah, Twilight Zone, and you know, um love he was big into Lovecraft.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: I bet um he was big into a lot of the gothic classics, you know, Edgar Allan Poe and um Bram Stoker and stuff like that, and you know, um very cool to see what influenced him, but very cool to make a list for yourself.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I gotta watch that movie.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I gotta read that book.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm big on that.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: You know I'm big on that.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: I love to sit down and read something or watch something that's like makes and then make a list and then go explore all that stuff.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm glad you said make a list because I made one, two, three.
23:54
SPEAKER_02: My top five.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: Let me talk about this other nonfiction book.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: Real cool, real quick.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: The other nonfiction book that he wrote is called On Writing.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: What's that about?
24:06
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's it's half an autobiography and half like him describing his writing process, and it's like every other chapter.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: So he'll like the the first chapter is like a story from his life when he's a little kid.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: And then the next chapter is like him writing Carrie, his first novel.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: And then the next chapter is like something that happened to him when he was a little bit older, and then the next chapter is more about specifically his writing.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's really neat because you learn his process.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: That'd be a great book for a writer.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: So someone like you would definitely get that up.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: You learn his process, but you also basically learn his his biography.
24:51
SPEAKER_02: But did that come out earlier too?
24:53
SPEAKER_01: No, uh, that one I think came in came out around the turn of the century.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: It might have been late 90s, it might have been early 2000s.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: It's called On Writing.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: On writing.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: So those two nonfiction, Don's macabre, and on writing, um, two things that Stephen King wrote that are totally nonfiction, but totally worth reading.
25:11
SPEAKER_02: That sounds like that's pretty cool, dude.
25:13
SPEAKER_02: Good.
25:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, good.
25:14
SPEAKER_02: All right, hit me with your list.
25:15
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so these are my top five that I absolutely love.
25:19
SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna I'm gonna talk to you about them on of course in it, The Shining, Pet Cemetery, yeah, Carrie, yeah, Salem's lot.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: And I want to know if you agree with this because I really thought about this list.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
25:35
SPEAKER_02: And out of all, it might be surprising to you.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: I found the one that was the darkest, the most messed up, the most unsettling for me as a reader, putting me into that place, Pet Cemetery.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: The most I thought it was the darkest out of all those.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: Do you agree?
25:52
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's interesting that you say that because I have heard Stephen King say that he thinks it's his scariest story that he's written.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: Really?
26:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've heard him say that.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's that's interesting that you came to that same conclusion.
26:08
SPEAKER_02: Um I think you said it perfect times in our life, and now you came back.
26:14
SPEAKER_02: I read this in high school too, and I said, uh, after I became a father, this book meant a lot more to me.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, this was the first Stephen King book I ever read.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: That's a pretty cool story.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: Didn't that girl your classmate turn you onto it?
26:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, so this like this is like right out of the box, you know, having no idea what I'm getting myself into, reading his scariest story like right off the back.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: What a way to get into it.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: Totally, like just how I was baptized by fire with the movie when I was a little kid.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: It's the same the same way.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: But yes, uh, and I did look in my old yearbook and find the name of that girl.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Shout out to her.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: So in seventh grade, um, we were getting ready to do a book report, and I wanted to I didn't have a book to write to read and then write about.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: And the girl that sat next to me, she was kind of a goth girl, and she knew that I was kind of a goth guy.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: And she said, if you like scary movies, you should check out books by this guy, Stephen King.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: And I think she loaned me Pet Cemetery.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I don't think I I don't think I went and got my own copy.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: I think she had a copy and she lent it to me.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: But anyway, her name was Tanya Perkins.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: You really shaped Paul Forrest.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: She really did.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: She really was.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: You're out there listening.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: And it just occurred to me just now, and her last name is Perkins.
27:41
SPEAKER_02: That's like a horror horror hall of fame uh last name.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: Surname of notoriety in the horror psycho.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: But anyway, Tanya Perkins uh turned me on to Stephen King, and I read Pet Cemetery and wow, I was did it scare you?
27:57
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: I was in seventh grade when I read and no one used the best step boss.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: I I just, you know, I remember the way he described like part of the skull and brain being in Gage's hat.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't remember if it was the ambulance driver or the dad.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: Somebody went over and picked up Gage's hat.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: It's his dad.
28:27
SPEAKER_02: And there's part of his skull skull batter in the hat, and he breaks it down.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: It and you see it in your head, this little boy.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: It's it's hard to read, man.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: I still I've seen the movie and I've seen the remake movie.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: And when I think about it in my head, I don't see the movie scenes.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: I still see how it was described and how I imagined it as a seventh grader.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: I that's how I still see it.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: Wow, how impactful is that?
28:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, hugely impactful.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: And that was it.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: I was off to the races after that.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: And then that's kind of like I said earlier, that's when I just started discovering.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's that's written by Stephen King.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: I think the next thing that I discovered was Stand By Me.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: Now I had seen Stand By Me.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: Great coming of age of these boys.
29:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: I had seen Stand By Me many times.
29:22
SPEAKER_02: But that's not the name of the book, it's called The Body.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: I had seen it and I loved it, and I but I didn't know Stephen King.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: And so when I found out, oh, that's Stephen King.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: Then I went and got, let me get the let me make sure I get this correctly.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: It's a short story, The Body.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's I went and got a his collection of short stories called Different Seasons.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: And I got it specifically to read The Body and see how it compared to Stand By Me.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: So that was probably the second Stephen King thing that I ever read was Different Seasons.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: But then also part of Different Seasons is Apt Pupil.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: Great.
30:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: Which ends up being fantastic and also a good movie.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: And then also is a little short story called Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, that's quite the movie for it turned into one of the best.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: One of the best movies that's ever been made.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: If you haven't read that and you enjoy those three movies, go read you some different seasons.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: And it's really good.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: And Stephen King has said, just like he said, Pet Cemetery was probably his scariest story, he has said that Stand By Me is his favorite movie adaption.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: Really?
30:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: He's pretty critical about how his movies he's very outspoken.
30:48
SPEAKER_02: He's not afraid to go, I don't like that right now.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: He definitely is, yeah.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: With Rob Reiner dying just a couple months ago, or whenever it was, um, I saw I don't know a lot of Rob Reiner stuff came up on my feed, and um that was one of the things that came up.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: He said that he showed the movie to Stephen King among a few other people, and he said he approached King after the screening, and King was crying.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: And he went up to him and he said, That bad, huh?
31:23
SPEAKER_01: And King said, No.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: That good.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: That good.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: So that's the best, that's the best adaptation that anyone's ever done of one of the movies.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know about the movie.
31:34
SPEAKER_02: And what a gravity that movie has.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, to it it really is a great movie.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: It's fantastic.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: It really is.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: And again I can't say enough about that one.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: One that again, uh uh and one that had doesn't really have anything like quote unquote scary or supernatural in it, but it's just such a fantastic story.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: And the storytelling, yeah, and these three, four boys.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: That movie came out, and I was about the age of the boys when that movie came out, you know.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: So it really, really impacted.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's still one of my favorites.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I've talked about staying home from school sick and throwing on Return of the Jedi or throwing on Raiders of the Lost Ark.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: This was one of those ones that I would throw on as well.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: Stand by me.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: This had a lot of rear watches as when I was a kid.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
32:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh it makes me think about uh staying at home.
32:33
SPEAKER_02: Uh this one uh I'm very sentimental kind of guy.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: This one, me and my mom read, and I was in seventh grade, and it's one of my favorite updates from the book to the movie, and it is the movie is Silver Bullet, the book is Cycle of the Werewolf, and I love how it's month to month, and you're going along with and you get to know the victims and how everything and the brother and the sister with the uncle.
32:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh just me and my me and my mom would she'd read a chapter, I'd read a chapter.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: And it that book means a lot to me, man.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: And then I remember her getting the movie for us, and the whole family watched it.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was those little things, man.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: And that was again one of the ones that I had seen the movie and didn't know I was watching the Stephen King thing.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I uh and somebody had to tell me because like you said, the titles are different.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: So somebody actually had to tell me.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: Hey, this is a book.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: This is actually cycle of the werewolf.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, like you said, um each chapter is the full moon of that month, yeah, which is such a cool plot device.
33:39
SPEAKER_02: You know, the ver the first month, it's uh freezing cold outside on the train tracks.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
33:45
SPEAKER_02: And the waste, I don't know, just he's a genius when it comes to writing.
33:48
SPEAKER_02: I would give anything to be able to write like that.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't know how he does it.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: That's some people um they have the gift.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: Just back to Silver Bullet.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: Some people put that up there as one of their favorite werewolf movies.
34:01
SPEAKER_02: It is great.
34:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:02
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it's my favorite.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: Uh watching it now with my daughters, it's yeah, I don't know, but it's it's special to me, man.
34:09
SPEAKER_02: And it is one I can show my daughters.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's that's a good that would be uh what do you call it?
34:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh Gateway.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: And Corey, uh, is that it's not Feldman, it's Corey Ain, right?
34:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's so good in that dude.
34:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he was a great young actor.
34:25
SPEAKER_02: It's a shame.
34:26
SPEAKER_02: And his uncle was played by Gary Busey.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: I want to talk real quick about some of his other short stories.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, Cycle of the Werewolf is technically a novella.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: So that I think that one counts as a short story.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: We talked about different seasons.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, his first collection of short stories was Night Shift.
34:48
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: And from Night Shift came uh Children of the Corn.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: Love it.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: And then have you read Graveyard Shift?
34:55
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and I didn't care for it.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: Really?
34:57
SPEAKER_02: Why not?
34:58
SPEAKER_02: I just didn't clip with me.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: I liked Graveyard Shift when I read it because in my mind, I'm seeing um like one of those 50s like radioactive monster kind of movies.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: Giant rats and stuff.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: And some of them have bat wings and they're flying around in the basement and everything.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: So, like, as I'm reading it, I'm seeing the old 50s creature feature that could have been.
35:25
SPEAKER_02: And you you grew up with a lot of that too, though, didn't you?
35:27
SPEAKER_02: So maybe that's why it plays out for me.
35:29
SPEAKER_02: I was just okay.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it was one of his earlier, earlier, earlier stories.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: So obviously he hadn't quite developed as a writer, um, you know, when he when he put pen to paper for that story.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: But um having read Don's macabre and seeing that he was big into those old creature features, he wouldn't saw those in the theater.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: You know, I saw him on the reruns on Saturday morning, but he definitely was influenced by you know the the atomic monster thing that had gone on in the 50s, you know.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: And and I that's all I would ever think about whenever I read Graveyard Shift.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: It never says, I don't think, that that was how the rats mutated mutated, but in my mind that's the connection I always made.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: Um the next one um that I read was Skeleton Crew, and from the Skeleton Crew collection of short stories, we got The Monkey, which was very just very recently made into a movie.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: Um The Raft, which that is an awesome one.
36:40
SPEAKER_02: That's a Creep Show 2.
36:42
SPEAKER_02: Creep Show 2, yeah.
36:43
SPEAKER_02: Great short story.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very cool short story.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Totally different ending in in the short story versus the the movie or the segment on Creep Show 2.
36:53
SPEAKER_02: I think I remember talking to you about that when we first really met.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: I think I called you up one night because I got done reading.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: I was like, have you read this?
37:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I remember that.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, another one from the skeleton crew is Mist.
37:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, in the movie, yeah.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, hard the movie hits you hardcore.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: That ended too.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh we talked about Cycle of the Werewolf.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: Some of the newer ones, um and my wife for a while got into Stephen King's short stories.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: Um she's read some of his novels, but she got into his short stories for a while.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: So kind of like you were saying with your mom, my wife and I would trade off his short story collections for a while.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: And so this is one that we read together, Everything's Eventual, which continue which contains the story 1408.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: The Hotel Room.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: John Kusick.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: But then there's another one that I don't think they've ever made into any kind of film adaption, but it's called The Man in the Black Suit, and it is so good.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: If you haven't read The Man in the Black Suit, it's a short story, and you need to go read it right now.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: It's um it's about a little boy, whose brother has died.
38:09
SPEAKER_01: It takes place like way back in like the early 1900s, and it's very like Appalachian, you know, like probably like how you know you grew up here in Arkansas.
38:19
SPEAKER_02: So it's not not to be confused with 1922.
38:23
SPEAKER_02: No, okay.
38:24
SPEAKER_02: Just wanted to make sure.
38:25
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: Um this is a short story.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: This is a short story.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, 1922 is a short story as well.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: But my man in the black suit is, yeah, this this little boy's his brother has died.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, so he goes fishing by himself, which he never used to do.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: He used to always go fishing with his brother.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: And he gets a visit down at the river while he's fishing, he gets a visit from the man in the black suit, who ultimately turns out to be the devil.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: And it's really good.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: It's a really, really good quick little story.
38:57
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna I'm gonna pause and just kind of pick your brain real quick.
39:01
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
39:03
SPEAKER_02: Uh do you think Stephen King is super religious?
39:06
SPEAKER_02: Because there's so many, I mean, you're talking about the devil and a lot of his like meaningful things that can even say that's the devil.
39:12
SPEAKER_02: A lot of these things.
39:13
SPEAKER_02: Do you think he's do you know anything?
39:15
SPEAKER_02: Is he super religious?
39:17
SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know for sure.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: I I think he grew up Catholic.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: Because he plays on these morals, the good and the bad.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: But that takes us back to last week's episode, which is, you know, we talked about religious horror and we talked about how they inherently kind of need each other, even though we think that they're at odds with each other, the horror and the religion, they really aren't.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: And I think horror very often relies on religion to kind of supercharge its message and make it more scary, more powerful.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: So then uh Hearts in Atlantis, which is a collection of short stories, but it's it's this one is extra special to me because if you read the Hearts in Atlantic, not the movie, the movie is totally something different, but the the stories in Hearts in Atlantis are all loosely connected.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: They're all short stories, they're all independent of each other, but they're all loosely connected.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: And what they're really about is the dark tower.
40:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I knew it would come back to that.
40:24
SPEAKER_02: They're companion stories.
40:25
SPEAKER_02: Really?
40:26
SPEAKER_02: So it even adds more to that layer.
40:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because there's so much to the dark towers.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: And and I again we'll talk about that here more in a minute.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then yeah, the next the last one that I read, and he's had other ones, but the last one collection that I read was called Full Dark No Stars.
40:44
SPEAKER_02: I've heard of it.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: And that has 1922 in it.
40:46
SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: But it also has a good marriage in it.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: Now, have you seen um the good marriage film?
40:53
SPEAKER_01: No, it's really good.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: No.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: The film is good, the story is good.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: A good marriage, it's about a lady who thinks she has a good marriage.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: And her husband turns out to be a serial killer.
41:06
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
41:07
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
41:08
SPEAKER_02: My sister has read that and she begged me to read it, and I never got time to read it.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, you need to listen to your sister and read it because it's really good.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: And the movie is really good, too.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that's just that's a Stephen King one.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
41:21
SPEAKER_02: What if what's the last Stephen King book you uh read?
41:24
SPEAKER_02: Because I'm gonna tell you mine, and I think you're gonna love it.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: The newest, the newest one that I've read, and the most recent one that I've read was Fairy Tale.
41:33
SPEAKER_02: Fairy tale.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: Came out three years ago, maybe.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't okay.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's good.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: It's good.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: It's it's very fairy tale.
41:43
unknown: Yeah.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: It's it's a lot, it kind of reminded me of a Neil Gaiman book.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: Really?
41:47
SPEAKER_01: How so?
41:47
SPEAKER_01: Um just it's more whimsical than Stephen King normally.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: Is that dark?
41:53
SPEAKER_01: It is dark.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's about this little boy who um helps an elderly man, an elderly neighbor, and the neighbor dies and leaves everything he owns to the boy.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: And as the boy's going through the elderly man's stuff, um he comes to realize that in the shed behind the old man's house is a stairway to like an underworld.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: That's pretty cool.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: And so he takes the stairway down to explore this.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: Not the stairway to heaven, no, it's the stairs down to this underworld.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: And it plays on all kinds of different fairy tales.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: It's it's like Stephen King took every kind of fairy tale that you can see.
42:46
SPEAKER_02: Like all the Grand Fairy tale stuff.
42:48
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome, man.
42:50
SPEAKER_01: And he weaves like his own version of all these fairy tales into his own overarching fairy tale.
42:57
SPEAKER_02: I could imagine that getting dark.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: But it's it's also a story about a boy and his dog, you know.
43:05
SPEAKER_01: So it's like it sounds fun.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: It's fun, it's very fun.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: And like I said, it's a little more whimsical, but it does have some dark moments to it.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: But overall, I think it's it's a little more on the safe side.
43:16
SPEAKER_02: Well, mine's not really flimsical.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: That's and uh my heart mine is uh I read this in January when it was nice and cold and we got a week of snow.
43:26
SPEAKER_02: And I I got this book out.
43:28
SPEAKER_02: It's one I love and it's misery.
43:31
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
43:31
SPEAKER_02: And that's just uh and we talk about the movie too, and the movie's great, but I think the book's even better.
43:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you feel everything he is going through when he is trapped in there with this psycho fanatic fan, which being a whore fan, you can see these people being real, and what would happen if maybe they got their favorite director strained on the side of the road?
43:54
SPEAKER_02: What would you do if he thought about one of his scariest
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Stories and it's completely absent of anything supernatural.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: Because it could happen.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: It's probably happened.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: And that's again, that's what makes it super scary.
44:10
SPEAKER_02: I think those are my favorite Stephen King books like that.
44:13
SPEAKER_02: And I was trying to think Dolores Claiborne.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: Dolores Claiborne's great.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: It's man, but it's it's it's just heartbreaking.
44:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is.
44:21
SPEAKER_02: But it's so real.
44:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:22
SPEAKER_02: And those are the ones that really connect with me.
44:25
SPEAKER_02: I love um It and uh Salem Slot and all that because I can have more fun.
44:30
SPEAKER_02: I find it more of a chore reading like Dolores Claiborne, but it in a good way.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:36
SPEAKER_02: But it's challenges you.
44:37
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
44:38
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
44:39
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
44:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:40
SPEAKER_01: Um both Kathy Bates movies.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: I will say that I'll say two things about those two movies.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: First of all, if my memory serves me correct, Misery was the first time that I went to the movies having already read the book.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: Because I I had gotten into Stephen King with Pet Cemetery in seventh grade.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: I remember Misery, the book coming out, and I remember thinking, oh, I gotta read that.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: It's the new Stephen King book.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: And I read it, and then I heard they were making a movie out of it.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: So you got super excited.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: And so I will got super excited, and then I went to see the movie.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: And you weren't disappointed.
45:22
SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: But I think that was probably the first one time where I had the experience in that kind of in that correct era.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, the book came out, read the book, they made it into a movie, saw the movie.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: I knew exactly what I was getting into, you know.
45:37
SPEAKER_02: And you had a great time.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: And then Dolores Claiborne, um you talked about Midnight Mass owing a lot to Salem's lot.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: I would say Midnight Mass owes a lot to Dolores Claiborne.
45:49
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
45:49
SPEAKER_02: I am 100% with you.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: The island setting.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: Um I think that uh Flanagan probably borrowed a lot from that.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: From both of those.
46:01
SPEAKER_01: It kind of like took his two, maybe his two favorite king Stephen King stories, Salem's Lot and Dolores Claiborne, and like married them together.
46:09
SPEAKER_01: And that's how he came up with Midnight.
46:10
SPEAKER_02: And when we get him on the podcast, we will yeah.
46:14
SPEAKER_02: Do you so if you had to pick let's which one do you read first?
46:19
SPEAKER_02: Misery.
46:20
SPEAKER_01: Misery's scarier.
46:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: It's scarier.
46:22
SPEAKER_01: Like you said, Dolores Claiborne is heartbreaking, but misery's scarier.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:27
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: Next, do you want to go into the Dark Towers here?
46:31
SPEAKER_02: Because I've got questions.
46:32
SPEAKER_02: You were the man, and I'm gonna be honest with you, dude.
46:36
SPEAKER_02: Go ahead, tell the audience.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I we'll just use Salem's Lot as because we just talked about it, we'll use it as our as our inroads to the Dark Tower, because um Father Callahan, main character in Salem's Lot, becomes a main character in the Dark Tower.
46:57
SPEAKER_01: And um some of the other books that Stephen King has read written, such as The Stand, The Talisman, Um, Eyes of the Dragon, It, even to a certain extent.
47:09
SPEAKER_01: Um these things come back in The Dark Tower.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: It's a multiverse.
47:17
SPEAKER_01: And big talk.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: Basically, for those who don't know what the Dark Tower is, Stephen King calls it his magnum opus, his most important work.
47:29
SPEAKER_01: Now that can be debated.
47:31
SPEAKER_01: Um not everybody who loves Stephen King loves the Dark Tower.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: The Dark Tower, I will say, is by my own admission, it's weird.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: It's a weird story.
47:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you said that.
47:46
SPEAKER_02: Because I not to interrupt you, yeah.
47:48
SPEAKER_02: I read The Gunslinger.
47:51
SPEAKER_02: I've read the the drawing of the three, yeah, and I just got done with uh Wastelands.
47:57
SPEAKER_02: Okay, and I am so confused, dude.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: And I want to ask you, does it come together?
48:03
SPEAKER_01: Because Yes, it comes together, but it doesn't get any less weird.
48:07
SPEAKER_02: With Jake and everything going on with him, I am like Yeah.
48:11
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
48:12
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't get any less weird.
48:13
SPEAKER_02: No, it's in a good way.
48:15
SPEAKER_01: It's I I understand why it's hard for some people to get into.
48:18
SPEAKER_01: But here's the thing that you need to know about the Dark Tower, first and foremost.
48:23
SPEAKER_01: It connects everything that Stephen King has ever done.
48:28
SPEAKER_01: When you when you finish the Dark Tower, you realize that Stephen King, in his massive genius, is not writing these, you know, episodic stories that happen here and there.
48:44
SPEAKER_01: He's writing everything is connected.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: How do you do that?
48:50
SPEAKER_01: You have to be I wonder if any other author is you have to be either super crazy or super intelligent.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: I think he's a little both or maybe a little both.
48:59
SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, I mean there's there is and he makes it clear in I think book six um of the dark tower that there's a world that we exist in, we as the readers, and then there's a world like a parallel universe.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: Keystone, right?
49:25
SPEAKER_01: We live in the Keystone world according to the Dark Tower.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh but but there's a parallel world where all of Stephen King's stories take place.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: It's not our world, but it's a lot like our world.
49:41
SPEAKER_01: And everything's connected.
49:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, whether it's whether it's uh the shining or it or everything.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: Everything is all connected.
49:51
SPEAKER_02: And what's the it and like his friendship is the cat I'm gonna put catet there.
49:58
SPEAKER_02: Explain that to the audience.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh cat is basically it's just a word in the old speech that means like a group of people who are bound by fate.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
50:11
SPEAKER_01: They are fated to be together and they are fated to be over and over, right?
50:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh in every world, yeah.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
50:18
SPEAKER_01: In every world, they they have some kind of connection.
50:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, because the dark tower itself is the linchpin that holds every world together.
50:27
SPEAKER_01: The dark tower is the common thread thread of every world.
50:32
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm gonna tell you right now, I'm gonna be really mad if I get to the end to the very the dark tower, and Roland does not have a good ending because I'm in room for this dude and everything he's been through.
50:43
SPEAKER_02: So if if he doesn't have a good ending, I'm not gonna be happy because I'm gonna read all these.
50:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, you're not gonna be happy.
50:50
SPEAKER_02: Don't tell me that.
50:53
SPEAKER_02: But um Aren't they making something else with it?
50:56
SPEAKER_02: Didn't you tell me that last week?
50:57
SPEAKER_01: I think Flanagan is making that's yeah, a series and for Netflix or for no, I think it's for Amazon, yeah.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: I've been making a series for Amazon, and it's gonna be seven seasons, one season for each book.
51:08
SPEAKER_02: I'll believe it when I say I've been waiting since they came out with the Dark Tower.
51:11
SPEAKER_02: I've been hearing about this.
51:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, somebody show the movie.
51:14
SPEAKER_01: The movie, yeah.
51:14
SPEAKER_01: Well, somebody um asked him about it like recently because they're like you keep coming out with this movie and that movie and this movie and that movie.
51:25
SPEAKER_01: But when and he can't he said, I assure you it's still happening.
51:29
SPEAKER_01: So we'll see.
51:30
SPEAKER_01: Who's gonna play your own?
51:31
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
51:33
SPEAKER_01: But since you brought up the Dark Tower movie, I love the movie.
51:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of people didn't love the movie because it doesn't adapt any source material from the book.
51:47
SPEAKER_01: It is totally its own thing.
51:49
SPEAKER_02: But like tell the audience what you told me, and this blew my mind, and it changes the movie.
51:53
SPEAKER_01: It changes the movie and it and it answers your question about does he get a proper ending?
52:00
SPEAKER_01: Because he really doesn't in the book.
52:03
SPEAKER_01: In at the end of the book, he's kind of back to where he started from in the very beginning in the gunslinger.
52:10
SPEAKER_01: And it a lot of people were like, what the heck, you know?
52:13
SPEAKER_01: Right.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, when they made the movie, and they didn't really go out of their way to tell you this, but there is one poster, one movie poster for the Dark Tower, and I don't even think it was the main poster that you would have seen in your theater.
52:32
SPEAKER_01: But it was it was it was an official movie poster, and it said something like one one more time around, or once more around, or something like that.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: So when he gets to the Dark Tower at the end of book seven, and then he walks through the door, and he finds himself right back at the beginning of The Gunslinger, um, the movie well, the difference is uh he doesn't have the horn of L'd in any of the books the books.
53:05
SPEAKER_01: But on the movie poster you can clearly see the horn.
53:09
SPEAKER_01: And at the end of book seven, when he walks through the door, this time he has the horn.
53:16
SPEAKER_01: And in the movie, he's got the horn the whole time.
53:19
SPEAKER_01: So what people are thinking are missing about the movie is that yeah, it's not the books, it's after it's what happens after the books.
53:29
SPEAKER_01: So it kind of does one more time around for him, and that does change the the experience.
53:34
SPEAKER_02: If you've read all those books and then you watch that, it's totally different.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
53:38
SPEAKER_02: And I did, I love the movie, yeah.
53:40
SPEAKER_02: I thought it was great.
53:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that um it totally changes the your perception of the movie when you understand that this is not uh an adaption of books one through seven.
53:54
SPEAKER_01: This is like book eight.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: Eight if there were if there were such a thing, right?
53:58
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's what happens next.
53:59
SPEAKER_01: That's pretty cool, man.
54:01
SPEAKER_01: But it's very cool.
54:02
SPEAKER_01: It's but it's it's weird, it's hard to get into, it's very easy to get confused.
54:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, but when it's all said and done, for me personally, it was one of the most enjoyable experiences that I've had as a reader, and especially as a fan of Stephen King, because it just like you said, it ties everything together.
54:27
SPEAKER_01: It's it shows you how this whole world is is one tangled web.
54:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's all interconnected, and it's who can who else can do that?
54:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean that's there's it's been done, but not often, and sometimes not very well.
54:44
SPEAKER_01: And he was I've I think in his book on writing, you know, he was uh he was hurt very badly in a by in a car.
54:57
SPEAKER_01: He should have died, right?
54:58
SPEAKER_01: He he was like very close to dead, yeah.
55:00
SPEAKER_01: He was walking, and he essentially got ran over by a minivan um while he was walking.
55:06
SPEAKER_01: This really happened.
55:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is real life.
55:09
SPEAKER_01: And he has said, I think he said in in his book on writing, as he thought he was dying, his big regret was I'm not gonna be able to finish the dark tower.
55:23
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
55:24
SPEAKER_01: So that's how important it is in his mind.
55:27
SPEAKER_01: I bet so to he really wanted us to understand his his universe, the king universe, and he really wanted us to understand the connections between all these different stories.
55:41
SPEAKER_02: That was important to him, and in a sense, that kind of sums up you know, the dark tower, how you said it in, and he starts back.
55:47
SPEAKER_02: That's kind of Stephen King, isn't it, in a way?
55:49
SPEAKER_01: Really symbolic.
55:51
SPEAKER_01: It's it's in that way, it's super impressive.
55:55
SPEAKER_01: And and again, I I will I will give the the critics their platform.
56:01
SPEAKER_01: Like I what everything that the critics have to say about the dark tower, I totally get it.
56:06
SPEAKER_01: I see where they're coming from.
56:08
SPEAKER_01: But man, if you can if you can stick with it, it's worth it, and you can see it for what it is, it's amazing.
56:14
SPEAKER_02: Everything going around isn't um the man in black that is it that Rick flag from Mr.
56:19
SPEAKER_02: Randall Flag.
56:20
SPEAKER_02: Randall flag, yeah, right?
56:21
SPEAKER_01: Yes, they're the same, yeah.
56:22
SPEAKER_01: They're the same.
56:23
SPEAKER_01: Anytime there is a antagonist in a Stephen King story with the initials RF, that's him, it's the man in black.
56:33
SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
56:34
SPEAKER_01: Every time.
56:35
SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
56:36
SPEAKER_02: And we'll see him again, I'm sure.
56:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
56:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:40
SPEAKER_01: And he's he's not actually the ultimate bad guy in the dark tower.
56:44
SPEAKER_01: He's the bad guy's kind of like first lieutenant.
56:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
56:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the man in black is not, he's not the end boss.
56:52
SPEAKER_01: He's not the he's not the end boss.
56:54
SPEAKER_01: Nope.
56:54
SPEAKER_01: No, he's he's a mini boss.
56:57
SPEAKER_02: Wow, he's a hell of a mini boss.
56:59
SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah.
57:00
SPEAKER_02: You got more on your list?
57:02
SPEAKER_02: We can go.
57:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, the stand is another one that is a very important one to me.
57:06
SPEAKER_01: You're brought up Randall Flag and the stand.
57:09
SPEAKER_01: So the stand is one of the ones that for me, it's hard.
57:12
SPEAKER_02: Why so it's a lot, it is, but man, it's it's I'm sure like with the Dark Tower series you can get into.
57:21
SPEAKER_02: I don't realize how much time's passed, and it flies for me reading that book.
57:25
SPEAKER_02: It it all comes together.
57:27
SPEAKER_02: And I think we've talked about this.
57:29
SPEAKER_02: I remember seeing an interview with Stephen King, and he said he got halfway through this book, and it was I think the only time haven't he got writer's block, and he's like, I don't know what to do.
57:38
SPEAKER_02: And I think he was talking to his neighbor or something, and he's like, drop a bomb on everyone and kill them.
57:43
SPEAKER_02: And what's Stephen King doing the book?
57:45
SPEAKER_02: He drops the bomb on and kills him.
57:47
SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah.
57:48
SPEAKER_02: Well, part of what this is the ultimate good versus evil to me, though.
57:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the ultimate.
57:53
SPEAKER_01: It's not, I mean, it's fantastic.
57:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying it's not.
57:57
SPEAKER_01: Um the number of characters and just the length of it, it's hard for me to digest.
58:05
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
58:05
SPEAKER_01: Now, that being said, I've read it twice.
58:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay, good, yeah.
58:08
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I've gotten through it successfully two times, and I do love it.
58:14
SPEAKER_01: Um I will say that if you had to if you pressed me on what's his best book, I would say the stand.
58:26
SPEAKER_01: Easily.
58:27
SPEAKER_01: And I would also say that when I talk to people, whether they proclaim to be Stephen King fans or not, if I asked them what's your what's your favorite Stephen King book, I'd say seven out of ten times they say it's the stand.
58:43
SPEAKER_01: What do you it?
58:45
SPEAKER_01: It is always up there too.
58:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:48
SPEAKER_01: It um suffers a little bit from its length and also from one very problematic scene in the first.
59:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Bev has a a very promiscuous scene in in the first half of it.
59:09
SPEAKER_02: I remember when they uh 2017 and that was coming out, and every I mean it was a big deal.
59:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
59:14
SPEAKER_02: I remember because Haley loves this, but my wife, she loves this, and uh we both looked at, are they gonna have this in the movie?
59:20
SPEAKER_02: There's no way, and I'm glad they didn't.
59:22
SPEAKER_02: Right.
59:22
SPEAKER_02: I'm glad they didn't.
59:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
59:24
SPEAKER_01: I read that that book had already been out.
59:29
SPEAKER_01: And when I when I read Pet Cemetery, um, so that was one of the ones that I was like, oh, I gotta circle back and read that because I remembered the Tim Curry, you know, made for TV show.
59:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
59:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh and then I read it.
59:44
SPEAKER_01: I was probably like a freshman in high school when I read it.
59:48
SPEAKER_01: I was like, what the heck did I just read?
59:50
SPEAKER_01: So did it didn't resonate with you?
59:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh not at first.
59:55
SPEAKER_01: Because I think that it was I loved how it was like split into two books, essentially.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_01: I loved that you get to follow up with these kids and see them as adults.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_01: I love that part of it.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_01: But the I remember even thinking as a kid when I after I read the first half of it, I remember thinking, this dude must be on some drugs.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_01: He probably was.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_01: And he wants, I think he wants to be.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_02: So speaking of Stephen King being on drugs, uh, this is one of my all-time favorite ones.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty sure it's made your list, and that is Tommy Knockers, and that's very Lovecraftian.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's I think I said to you when we talked about this once before.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_01: I read Tommy Knocker's, and then later on I got into Lovecraft.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_01: And when I read Color Out of Space, oh, this is where Stephen King got this from.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_02: It really is.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_02: And but man, it's it's a great, great book.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_02: It is, it's a really good book.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_01: And he doesn't like it.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_01: Stephen King doesn't like it.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_01: I think because in his mind it's tied to that period in his life where he probably was um you know high as a kite all the time.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, I I've heard him say he doesn't like it, but I've also heard him say that he thinks there's a good story in there somewhere.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_02: I think it's amazing.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh that's a great read.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_01: If you also have ever heard him talk about his addictions, he has no recollection of even writing Cujo.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_01: And I was just fixing to bring up Cujo.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_02: Do you think that's true?
1:01:30
SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you not know a whole period of I mean, that heavy?
1:01:34
SPEAKER_02: And still, and Cujo is great.
1:01:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:36
SPEAKER_01: Have you read Kujo?
1:01:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
1:01:37
SPEAKER_01: I love Cujo.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's one of the ones where he had the opposite of Tommy Knockers.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_01: He said, that's a good story.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's a really good book.
1:01:46
SPEAKER_01: But he's like, I think it's dealing with that maximum overdrive thing in that.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_01: He said he directed that he has no memory of writing it.
1:01:56
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's how addicted he was.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_02: So even high off of his butt, he could and me being sober, I could never do that.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_02: Let that sink in.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of talent.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_02: It is a lot of talent.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of talent.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_02: He's got that we could go all night talking about his books, man.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_01: I will just real quick, because I think we're about out of time.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're at an hour already, buddy.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'll just click off, finish off my list of stuff that I've read that he's done.
1:02:25
SPEAKER_01: So uh we talked about, we didn't even really talk about the shining.
1:02:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:02:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, the dead zone.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_01: Yep, Firestarter, yep, the running man.
1:02:35
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, the talisman, I think I briefly mentioned the talisman has a direct connection to the Dark Tower.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_01: And The Talisman was given a sequel in the early 2000s called The Black House.
1:02:53
SPEAKER_01: And for those that don't know, the Talisman trilogy is about to get concluded this fall.
1:03:00
SPEAKER_01: He's got a new book coming out with Peter Straub.
1:03:04
SPEAKER_01: And the name of it is Other Worlds Than These, which is a direct quote from the Dark Tower.
1:03:11
SPEAKER_01: There you go.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_01: And when I heard that this third and final book in the Talisman trilogy was going to be called Other Worlds Than These, I got so excited.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_01: And I'm sitting here right now, I'm frigging so excited.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_02: He is, ladies and gentlemen.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_02: He nerded it up.
1:03:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm nerding out over Other Worlds Than These.
1:03:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm I cannot wait to get my hands on that.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh couple more, thinner, um, The Dark Half, Gerald's game, which was another good uh movie too on Netflix adaption.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_01: And then uh The Green Mile.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_01: And then one that I've read that I see sitting right here on your shelf in front of me, Bag of Bones.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_01: Bag of Bones.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh you mentioned the girl who loved Tom Gordon.
1:04:00
SPEAKER_01: We mentioned this one before, um, Dr.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_01: Sleep.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_01: Dr.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_01: Sleep's great.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_01: Dr.
1:04:06
SPEAKER_01: Sleep is really, really good.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_01: I showed uh over Christmas break, my daughter that's away at college came home and she was like, Dad, I watched The Shining this semester, and I was like, Oh man, how you know, and so we had the whole talk about that.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_01: And then she wanted to watch it with me, so we watched it over Christmas break, and then I was like, Well, now we gotta watch the sequel, and she's like, There's a sequel.
1:04:35
SPEAKER_01: So we watched that, and actually the whole family we watched the whole family sat down here and watched The Shining, and then the next night we watched Dr.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_01: And maybe make that ritual.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_02: You know, every that time of year you can put that on, and yeah, something that can bring the family together.
1:04:52
SPEAKER_02: Nothing better at Christmas time than that, right?
1:04:54
SPEAKER_01: That's a total Christmas movie.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_01: When I first moved to Arkansas and was snowed in for the first time in my life, that the thing and the shining.
1:05:04
SPEAKER_01: I've never been snowed in in my life until I moved to Arkansas, California boy.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_01: The the first thing I did when I got snowed in was I put on the shining and then immediately put on Dr.
1:05:16
SPEAKER_01: Sleep afterwards.
1:05:17
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
1:05:17
SPEAKER_01: I I didn't even wait till the next night.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_01: I just watched them back to me.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_02: That sounds like a great night, dude.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_01: I think that's that's a good tradition right there.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_01: Every time it snows, do it.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_01: Every time you're snowed in, you gotta watch those two movies.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_02: I wanted to bring up one real quick, and then it's very creepy if you're in the mood for something.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_02: It's not a well-known one, but it's called The Outsiders.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_02: And I remember picking this up and reading it.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_02: It's about shape shifting.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_02: That's all I'll say.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_02: Great read.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_01: Very, very creepy.
1:05:44
SPEAKER_01: I have not read that, but I know that they did a series of it starring uh Jason Bateman.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know that.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Jason Bateman really's the main character in a in a like a six-episode adaptation of it.
1:05:57
SPEAKER_02: I wonder who he plays because uh Okay.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: I know it's about like doppelgangers and stuff, but yeah.
1:06:03
SPEAKER_01: I think he probably plays multiple roles.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_01: Probably.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, if you haven't seen that, check that out.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_01: So I've seen that, but I haven't read the book.
1:06:12
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:06:12
SPEAKER_02: Well, then we need to reverse.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_02: Let's go ahead.
1:06:14
SPEAKER_01: There you go.
1:06:15
SPEAKER_01: All right, folks.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, like Cody mentioned, we could go on and on and on.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, but we're gonna cut it off because we're over time.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_01: And uh we did not pick a topic for next week.
1:06:27
SPEAKER_01: Don't be surprised.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_01: But so we'll surprise you again.
1:06:30
SPEAKER_01: But I will say that uh we have buddies who have a podcast called Dawn of Mantis, and they have officially invited us to be on their podcast, and then we're gonna have them on our podcast.
1:06:41
SPEAKER_01: So I think next week we'll come back with a surprise episode, but then the following week, we're gonna have some special guests.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_02: That will be fun.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be really fun.
1:06:52
SPEAKER_01: All right, y'all.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, check out TikTok and let us know what is your favorite Stephen King book.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, get a good one and read it over the weekend if you unless it's the stand.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_02: You guys have a great day.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you won't finish that over the weekend.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_02: All right, take care, y'all.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_02: Bye, guys.