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How We REALLY Hire People | The Operators Seat E4 · The Operator’s Seat Podcast

• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Happy Thursday and welcome back to the operator seat.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Happy Thursday.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Landon.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Sabrina, your co-host.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: So excited to be here today.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much to everyone who uh sent us their questions through social media and then also through our form.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're excited to talk about those today.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: After going through them, I think we picked one for today's topic.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people are growing their firms, it seems like.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so the question that we received that we're going to go over today is what do you look for when hiring an individual?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And are you interviewing multiple people for the role?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do if you realize they aren't the ideal fit?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think just all in all, let's talk about our hiring and kind of our experience because we're going through that right now.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we uh both can speak to that.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I know what I do when they're not an ideal fit, but I think we both know what you do when they're not an ideal fit.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um we can probably talk about uh, you know, our our differences um as well, you know, coming from our Enneagram numbers.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um we probably handle them very differently, but what's beautiful is we're able to talk that out with one another and um the dynamic duo as uh people have referred to us, and um, you know, they constantly ask when I came on board here, um, you know, how do we do it together?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think with being able to talk to one another and kind of talk it out and um having the Enneagram of an eight and a two really helps us with that hiring.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And speaking of the Enneagram, you know, uh we've both kind of incorporated it into our um not just the hiring but onboarding process too.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's very important.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think um if you're not familiar with the Enneagram, an eight will explain briefly what an eight and a two are, just so you get the gist of kind of our hiring process and the balance.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: But um an eight, I'll just explain my number and then Landon, you can explain yours.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's good.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: An eight is referred to, I think, as the active controller.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so we're very we really like direct communication.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're very direct in our feedback.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: We like to have control of situations um so that we don't feel controlled.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's not necessarily that we want to control everybody else, but we don't want to be controlled.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So then oftentimes we're the ones that are controlling situations.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, that's a brief rundown.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, direct feedback and type A personality, I think, is oh you know, usually, at least in my experience, AIDS are pretty type A.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And loyalty, that's the other big thing.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we really appreciate loyalty.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I I definitely think that comes into handy with the uh hiring process too.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're definitely looking for that.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um and then Enneagram 2, we are the uh considerate helpers.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you are.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Directness is not always what we're great at.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but definitely as we get healthy in our number, um, we we can have that about us.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um oddly enough, when we're stressed, we go to an eight.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so which is very cool.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And when I'm healthy, I go to a two.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I think that you know the balance between the two is very um very cool for us and you know, with our leadership balance.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um but a two, you know, have a hard time saying no, almost to a fault, which you know can sound great and dandy, but then when um we're overwhelmed, we don't let others know and we'll continue to say yes, which is not always good.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So um learning to have those boundaries and to become a healthy two, um, which is the four, I believe.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's the artistic, um, I believe is where we go in health, but I could be wrong, but I'm pr I think it is the four.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um we begin to have that artistic um creative thoughts process.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, definitely.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, bringing that back to the um hiring process, um I think during learning about the Enneagram, which we've um talked about before on here, but learning about it has really helped um for the process and onboarding and hiring and um allowing that to kind of understand, okay, what is this person feeling?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's always a game to me too, without knowing their Enneagram number, trying to guess it.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think we've had a couple guesses with, you know, even just high the um hiring process um here since I started.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's something I always try to do is guess the Enneagram number.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, it's uh the culture fit is a huge piece of it.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of um what I'm looking for first is to see if somebody's gonna be a good culture fit.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, a lot of times you can teach somebody the role.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's it's kind of what you're looking for.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Are you looking for somebody who really knows the role?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or are can you take the time to teach them the role?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they're a really good culture fit.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, you'd want somebody who does both.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and of course you want somebody who is in a perfect scenario.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, don't we always person.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um but you know, you you really want to make sure that they are that culture fit.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because bringing on somebody new, it disrupts the team.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: It really does.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even like anybody, not just, you know, a a bad culture fit, like anybody could be the perfect person.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to disrupt the team.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's changes the dynamic the dynamic.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: A new perspective, you know.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody, I I think no matter what Enneagram number you are, you you're always a little apprehensive about somebody who comes on board.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you gotta figure them out and um learn how they're gonna fit in with the team and you know, what are you going to have to offload to make room for them in whatever role they are.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, we we all come with uh big personalities or small personalities, but you know, that's gotta fit in the team dynamic.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, there's different milestones that they talk about where your team uh faces those storms, you know, adding so many people to the team.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's it's just all things considered, you know, you want to make sure that that culture fit is there.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people confuse culture with just like the fun stuff, but it's really, I think that's what we did in the beginning.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: As we were growing, we were like, okay, culture, like we want to have fun.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, this is our culture.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: We have fun, we get shit done, that's it.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: But then as we expanded and as we actually grew and started to grow the business, I found that like culture means so much more than that.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's more than just having fun.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's who do we really want to represent our brand and the mission that we have to help people?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um, what kind of work do we want them to put out?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, what you know, how fast-paced are we?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: That that has a lot to do with culture.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: How can they operate in a fast-paced environment?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: I am a very fast-paced person and I feel like, you know, the two founders are as well.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we deliver that kind of high intensity, high energy like expectation through the team.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, if if we're finding people that don't fit that mold, then it's a disaster, right?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, how do we find, you know, culture is all-encompassing of those things.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a big believer in soft skills.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love kind of interviewing.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: I base my interview questions more around um soft skills than the technical skills.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think like as, you know, we always vet somebody's technical skills as they onboard.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: But then once you know, or someone else or another manager knows that they have the technical skills, then we start to interview more culture-based questions.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I come in and I do like soft skill questions.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have my favorites, which I'll I can share a few of them.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, I think those are soft skills can be learned, but they're something that I it it helps to have a foundation of those skills, you know, to start with, versus somebody that maybe has all the technical skills in the world but doesn't know how to have a conversation with somebody else, um, that would be a problem.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now those soft skills are definitely the more challenging ones.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: They take the uh more effort to learn than the technical skills I feel like.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so also part of that is if you're gonna learn.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you have somebody who is just, you know, it we say leave your ego at the door.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, if you have somebody who isn't who thinks that they're, you know, because they have so many technical skills, they don't need to learn the soft skills, then that's not somebody I want on my team because we can all continue to learn technical and soft skills and you know, shape them into as we grow as a team.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because those, you know, I always told my um former team, what works for 10 doesn't work for 15.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: What works for 15 doesn't work for 30.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, when when I um said my goodbyes, we were at 30 people.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so we were constantly having to change.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was having to change my soft skills.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Some individuals needed more um upfront.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, even coming back to here, you know, just learning a uh a different team, you know, you're constantly having to shape your soft skills.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have somebody who isn't going to learn and adapt, then, you know, they're they're not somebody who's gonna make it on my team.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we're talking about soft skills, we're talking about um skills like um flexibility.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um what are what are some other I'm brain dead.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: What are some other soft skills like that?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, some that I think define some.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, and you you said it with like the general communication.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um understanding.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes you know, uh I I think sympathy is a huge one, but I think it's more empathy.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Spoken like a true to sympathy and empathy.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but I think like I'm just kidding.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, and you're and you are really good, you know, empathy when you when you and I have the conversations, you know, whether we're having to have a hard conversation or whatever may be.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it's more empathy than sympathy.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um being able to put yourself in somebody else's shoes, whether that's the client, a teammate, or you know, a direct report, yeah, whatever that looks like, I think, you know, having those empathetic skills is a soft skill that is really um good and beneficial for somebody.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I also think, you know, being able to turn that off and have that direct feedback, especially in leadership, yeah, um, operation leadership uh positions where you have to have those hard conversations.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's very important.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm definitely not uh not always been good at it.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, there's definitely situations where I definitely think that I need to work on it.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: But um again, like I said, and you said flexibility um and growth.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, a a mindset of, you know, you've never reached the ending point, um, having a growth mindset, especially in a growing firm, um, which I'm I'm sure a lot of our listeners um are experiencing or the want to experience, you know.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so having um that growth mindset of I've never reached and I want to continue to learn and continue to be built better and grow and evolve, yeah.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is is definitely a soft skill that uh is needed.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I put I'm pulling up my phone for my interview questions, but some more soft skills that I just thought of is like um conflict resolution.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a huge one.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: As you grow a team, you want somebody that is willing and able to resolve conflict in a healthy way.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's a huge one.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: As you add more personalities, you're naturally going to have more conflict within the team, um, more perspectives, more opinions.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to create a toxic culture by adding the wrong people to the team.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a huge one.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then discernment, being able to, you know, kind of think and discern.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's one that, you know, you can learn over time in your role as you learn more information about, you know, the technical side of your job, but also, you know, the softer side of your job where you're having to communicate with people and kind of discern and anticipate needs and you know, manage up.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I specifically when I'm interviewing a person, I'm looking for those skills um more so than I'm looking for technical skills.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now it depends on the position.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So if we're looking for a financial advisor, yes, I want somebody who knows, you know, what they're s talking about and and somebody that is going to take care of our clients in that way with their knowledge, um, but also with, you know, their soft skills.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they need emotional intelligence because you have to uh relate to your client.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it doesn't matter what industry you're in.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not able to relate to your client in sales in general, you're not gonna be able to be successful, in my opinion.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't want to go to buy a car or something and you know have somebody who's very bland.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I want somebody who's gonna try to relate to me.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or, you know, a home with a realtor.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, anybody who is sales, I think, you know, having high emotional intelligence is very important.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you do to answer this person's question, um, which I thought was really an interesting one?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do when you're in an interview with somebody, or maybe it's after they weren't very specific, but when you realize someone's not a good fit.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I think you and I would have different uh ways about you first.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So um if I'm in interview, you know me.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I give every single person probably more chances than uh need be, but I I'm I try to get it out because I remember interviewing, especially when I was younger.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, there were multiple times where I interviewed for Disney and I didn't get it.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I try to think back to those moments and you know how nervous I was.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of So empathetic behind it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, it's just it it's the two in me.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I I think back and like I try to really think, okay, how can I make this person not I I'm not an authoritative interviewer.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I start most of my interviews, and a lot of people might disagree with this, but I start a lot of my interviews um and I say, you know, this is just a conversation.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get to know you.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to get to know me and my team and my company.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we'll see if it's a fit from there.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, especially during that first interview to kind of just like calm down everything.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, lower the walls, lower the nerves.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody has a guard going into an interview.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good tactic.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I might try that.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just, you know, and at the end of the day, that's all it is, is a conversation.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, if that conversation goes on and it's not a fit, I'm not one that's gonna tell them that in the interview itself.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I will allow that person to have every single opportunity that they can to prove themselves.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if they don't, you know, it it's just not a good fit for them.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather figure that out now than later.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, I will just follow up with an email and say, thank you so much.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we've decided to move forward with other candidates.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Can't tell you how many of those um emails I have received in my lifetime.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, sometimes you're just not a good fit, or um, you know, there are better fits out there.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, if I would have uh taken some other job, I wouldn't be sitting here today with you.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So who, you know, there's always um greener pastures.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I the way that I handle it it's a little bit different.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um but again, I am a very big and uh cr you probably know Landon, um so AIDS react or they often listen to their gut, right?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's their gut.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: So there's different there's like three different ways that you kind of listen to your intuition um with different numbers.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: But eights are very uh gut reactive.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: So like if we have a feeling about something or if we have an immediate reaction about something, that's usually just what we lean towards.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I'm in an interview, in the first like I give it like usually I'll give it like ten ten minutes of my of the conversation before I really make a decision on if I want to continue talking with this person because I just am very, like I said, I'm very fast.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lot of shit to do.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have time and I don't want to waste your time.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's how I, you know, I've never ended an interview at 10 minutes and been like, well, you're not a fit.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I usually try to keep them, you know, if I know that I'm not, you know, going to move forward with somebody for whatever reason, um, usually my gut reactions are based off of um soft skills or like authenticity, lack of authenticity.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: If I feel like someone and this, I'm not saying this is a good way to be, because I I definitely understand people are nervous in interviews, so I always try to take that into consideration.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I also understand I can come across maybe a little more intimidating than I realized.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just as an Enneagram eight, I feel like that's a problem.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's not that I I don't take that out of consideration, but if I feel like somebody isn't being authentic or isn't answering questions in an authentic or at least trying to be a you know in a genuine way, yeah, um, that usually turns me off.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's because as an eight, like we really like the authenticity.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so if I feel like someone isn't answering my questions directly, or they're you know, they're trying to dodge a question, or they're not telling me what I'm asking them.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're kind of dancing around it.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like that.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's a red flag for me.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um you're you're really good at uh asking the question again too.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: I am, yes, in a different way.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: I I respect that about your interviewing skills too.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: I really like that.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I do try because I'm like, okay, maybe they misunderstood or they're nervous, they didn't hear they forgot, they didn't hear me.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I try a few different times.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: So usually if I'm in an interview with somebody that I know I'm not moving forward with, it's usually about a 20-minute conversation.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um sometimes it's 30 minutes if you know they're talking a lot.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I'm not super direct.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just let them I kind of wrap it up and just say, hey, this is our first initial conversation.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: If we decide to move forward, you'll hear back from me.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and if we, you know, if we decide not to, you'll definitely hear as well.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I always will always send an email regardless because I don't like to be left hanging.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to leave anybody else left hanging.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, that's how I that's how I am um now.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now that's not how I used to be.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think as you learn what you want and what your culture is, you get better at really having that gut reaction of like this person's a fit or they're not.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um now I've been wrong.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think we we're all wrong on certain occasions.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's just being human.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I feel like that's kind of my that's my MO during interviews.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it it and it's it's easy for, you know, some people come in and they're really good interviewers.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, they they bamboozled.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Then they're done that with haven't we all?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then other people they're just not good interviewers, or you know, some people aren't good test takers, and um it and then you get them in and you give somebody a chance.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's not saying everybody needs a chance.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, twos, they also they it it's not necessarily the gut, but I think it's the emotion.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, very similar to you, the first like ten minutes I'm analyzing this person, I'm looking at their mannerisms, and I'm just kind of seeing, okay, you know, how would they fit?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um something that I always do when I offer somebody, I I always offer somebody water or coffee.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And if they if they say yes, I try to get it into a mug that they can't take with them.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because I want to see what they do with it at the end of the interview.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do they leave it on the table?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do they offer to take it somewhere?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do they take it with them to the front and ask where, you know, where do you put dirty dishes?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Something like that.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And what is like what it what passes somebody like what is a red flag to you with that?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: A red flag is if they leave it on the table and they don't say anything.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: They don't acknowledge it.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: They they say, hey, you're gonna clean up my mess.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're gonna clean up my mess from a dirty dish, you're gonna clean up my mess when I don't I mess something up.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you're not gonna own your responsibilities.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that's a big one for me.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um now it they don't always take the water or the coffee, so you can't always get it in something.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, if if they do ask for it, I try to get it into something that is um tangible that they'll need to wash.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: That is a good one.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know what else I look for?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: I look for um, now that you've mentioned mannerisms, I often look for people that aren't fidgeting.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: So if somebody is fidgeting around like they're twirling a ring or they're, you know, messing with their nails or their thumbs or whatever, I get that someone can be nervous, but I I the fidgeting aspect of it means that you're not, you you don't know how to operate under pressure very well.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and stay calm and collected.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I look now that's not an immediate like, oh my gosh, I'm not moving forward with this person, but it's just a little quick mental note of okay, they're nervous, that's fine, but they're they're fidgeting a lot.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, I don't necessarily like that.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I also don't like when people, and this is just good advice for interviewing.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you have your hands under the table and you like are like kind of shrunken, to me that that means you're not confident.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, sit up straight.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: I have terrible posture, so I probably never sit up straight, but you know, express yourself with your hands or at least have them above the table, like on the table, resting or somewhere visible, and be, you know, don't be fidgeting around.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I notice that a lot.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then I have specific questions that I really like.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: So one of them is, you know, I'll one of my first questions after I kind of have the small talk over with, I'll say, hey, and these aren't questions that I came up with.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've stolen these from like Simon Sinek and Brene Brown and all of these wonderful leaders that we have to learn from.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think this one's from Simon Sinek, and he talked about, you know, asking somebody, hey, I don't like surprises.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be prepared.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: So if you were to come on board, what would be something that you would struggle with in the first 30 to 60 days?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that really gives me an idea of if they're willing to take responsibility or ownership of something.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a better way than saying, what are your weaknesses?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Those poor Enneagram threes.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: They struggle with that question.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what bullshit answers I don't like is I struggle, you know, out of all the struggles you could come up with, you say something like, Well, I don't know when to stop working.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: I am just I work late all the time.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that I really struggle with.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's something that I'll probably do.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's bullshit.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're trying to look good and I don't like it.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: You're not accomplishing it.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Immediate, like red flag, like major red flag for me.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: I want some give me some real meat on the bone.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: We all have faults.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we all have faults.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm asking, and I'm making the question about me.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to be prepared.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Not, hey, what do you suck at?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to be prepared for you.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: What would be something that you struggle with?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so if someone's not willing to own that and just be authentic with it, that's usually my number one red flag.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just thinking from like an Enneagram too.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if I if you were interviewing me and I said, Well, I really struggle saying no, what would your thoughts be?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it depends what you would what would be the elaboration there.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, give me some examples.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: My gut reaction is like, okay.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Lame answer.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: I would be like, I don't know.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know that it would be an immediate, like, eh, I don't want to move forward with this guy.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um what's awful is that's become such a cliche, but it's so true about twos.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: It is true.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a fault.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: It is definitely a fault.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely a struggle.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: See, I as an eight, I feel like an Enneagram eight, and just as a person in general, I at work can turn it off and on, like my emotions off and on very easily.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, when I'm interviewing or even on a day-to-day basis, what I struggle with is the empathetic side, because I am deeply empathetic to the core.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: But at work, I am here to get something accomplished.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I kind of remove all emotion from it.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's something that you help balance me with is like, hey, what if this was, you know, what was going on, or what if this is the perspective that they have?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I tend to forget that a lot, especially in interviews when I'm trying to decide if somebody is going to come onto our team because I get very protective of, you know, everyone that we've we've had so far on our team and you know how the dynamic will shift.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well they can help build it.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the clients are these, you know, is this person going to do what is best for our client and you know, do everything they can to help them?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I get very protective of that to the point that I lose the emotion.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, I totally understand that.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, not only have you built it, but you've built it with the team and um just knowing that bringing somebody new is going to disrupt in the beginning.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's without a doubt.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then like, how does that disruption pan out?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a good pan or is it a bad pan, you know?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um what what's your thought on like the 90-day process?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what should our listeners like really ha like analyze and you know, one-on-ones during the first 90 days?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: One-on-ones during the first 90 days.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I would have them weekly and I would definitely have a job description.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know that sounds kind of elementary, but believe it or not, or not, a lot of people don't have job descriptions.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: So really understand yourself.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, if you're not the owner of the business or someone that's working with this person every day, make sure that whoever's working with them also understands what their job is.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I would say give direct feedback.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: You love that.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I know that's easier said than done for a lot of people.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And but here's the thing like if you start off giving direct feedback, it's easier to do it later.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's so true.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's much smoother and easier for you to just be uncomfortable for like five minutes giving direct feedback to start the relationship than you know, kind of glazing over maybe something that needs to be corrected.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's like six months down the line and it's gotten worse, and then you're like, oh my gosh, how am I gonna have my first direct conversation with this person after you know I've I've led by example for six months that I'm not direct and I don't, you know, I'm not gonna have these conversations.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I am a big proponent of direct feedback from the b the very beginning.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, having the weekly one-on-ones, which I know is a lot, but hiring somebody is a big investment time-wise.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want them to succeed, you have to give them the time.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, one-on-ones, direct feedback, and then also correcting in the moment, not just waiting for the one-on-one.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: But if you see something that they're doing that you are like, uh, I don't like that, correct them in the moment.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then last but not least, give kudos where kudos are due for doing well.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that they understand what they're doing well, um, you know, and where they're succeeding.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're giving them confidence as well.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I I I think those are so big, you know, not just for keeping the culture and you know, the first 90 days is probably like the uh roughest for everyone.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, make or break with, you know, a lot of your companies have that 90-day period where, you know, you're kind of onboarding and are you gonna make it or not kind of deal.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but if if you're able to, uh, as you said, start with that direct feedback, which you know, we both know is not my strong suit, but I I think I'm as I grow I'm getting better at it.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and having that open communication is really what it's all about, you know, and um being able to communicate with your team and that way they know that you're I I feel like if you start off with that, then your team, your new employee knows that their success is important to you.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's all feedback is is like if you use it as a positive, like I'm not if I don't care about your success, I'm not gonna care to give you direct feedback.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna I'm gonna say, okay, Sayanara, get out of here because you know, if I truly care about your success, I will give you the direct feedback to correct the behavior or whatever it is that we need to work on, and I will help you work on it together.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm gonna be, you know, direct because that's what you need to be successful.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um I just I think that too many leaders try to dance around uh situations or, you know, topics, and they just think, oh, well, I'll kind of guide them this way.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: It'll get better over time.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't, in my experience, it doesn't pan out that well.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, it it's it's definitely um being able to balance out between those two is, you know, and and I've definitely had to figure that out because I've definitely danced around the tough conversation.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've been in uh leadership since I was 25 years old at Disney World.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, having to have those hard conversations um with cast members.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and and what I really respected about my team is they brought me in on those hard conversations.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um I even had to fire somebody, um, which was crazy.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: But uh hiring is never fun.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's no it's very, very hard.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: And people, if you haven't ever had to do it, you really haven't had to worry about it or think about it.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it's even if you know you don't know somebody that well, because I'm a big also believer in firing fast.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't, if you find out that this person is not a fit, don't waste their time and don't waste yours or your team's time um trying to get it to work.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because that has never worked out for me.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had a lot of experience trying to get things to work and they don't work.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so the quicker you just make that decision, the better off you are and your team is, and that person, because then they can go find the right fit.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, I think I forgot where I was going with that, but fire fast.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I forgot, I forgot what um speaker says that.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I get his um his YouTube videos and uh TikToks come up all the time.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I know who you're talking about.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's like high or slow, fire fast or something.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um the other so a good way to have a hard conversation, something that I learned from uh I think Mel Robin says this is like start the conversation off by saying, like, hey, I have high expectations for you because I know you can succeed and I know you can meet them, and I have high expectations for my team.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: And here's what they are and here's where you're at.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you present it in a way that, you know, you're there to help them succeed and grow and you want them to be successful, which is why you're giving the feedback, uh, I think it lands a lot better.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, most definitely.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I agree 100%.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um finding the medium between the directness and the uh, you know, hey, I want you to exceed, I'm on your side, kind of is is tough to do.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: It is it's tough because you know, so many of us are on one side or the other.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but you know, that's what I love about us is we balance each other out.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: We balance and we learn from each other.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: We definitely do.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned so much in the past 90 days.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned a lot from you, Landon.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you know, something else that is so important to the um, you know, hiring somebody is uh having the correct job posting.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that attracts the people that you will hire.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you don't have the, you know, correct job posting or language, you know, and you don't want to dupe anybody.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: You want to make sure that, you know, everybody is the individuals who apply, they know your culture, they know the expectations, you know.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to, you know, talk about this glamorous job and then it not be that, or you know, you don't want to downplay the job and it be incredible.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, you also just need to be professional in it.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: You do.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was uh I was reading a job posting when I was looking for jobs before I was here, and um it came across and it was uh it just it it read very unprofessional, and it talked about the uh the previous uh director in this role.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was coming from a director about the colour.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was like mad dogging the previous employee.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I I could not believe it.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I just that is a red flag.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Don't work for a company like that, that's for sure.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't imagine.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it it just it blew my mind that and then it was posted by a recruiting company.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: You would think the recruiting company would like push back a little tell them like, hey, we probably shouldn't do this.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not gonna attract the right people.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Not the people that I would want on my team.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's wild.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just it it's important to be professional.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's important to if you want to attract the right people, yeah, to um post on, you know, and and then there's Indeed, there's LinkedIn, so you know.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: So many different job posting sites.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Just making sure you're, you know, doing it professionally and correct.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the way you'll attract the people that you want on your team.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Granted, if that's the type of people you want on your team, then I guess that's the way to post.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you also need to make sure that you know the role that they're coming in to fill.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I talked to somebody this week that was wanting advice on, you know, how do I start growing in the firm?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: What do I look for?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, kind of in line with the job postings, like you have to have the job description down to then relay that information to the job posting or to a recruiter if you're using a recruiter to, you know, go out and recruit for you, or if you're recruiting yourself on LinkedIn or other platforms, you have to know what they're going to be doing day in and day out.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: And be very, very clear about that.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean that you're tied to, you know, that those specifics, but it helps you create a robust job description that I think makes sense and it is attractive for, you know, high value candidates that you want to attract for your team.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that way the expectations are clear too.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know what you're expecting of whether it's a new role or um, you know, you're filling a role and you know the expectations, they know the expectations, and there's no really surprises.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, your interview question, nobody wants a surprise when they come in.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that goes for them too.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I once heard somebody say, you know, they they got angry when the candidate was interviewing them.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: But to me, the candidate should be interviewing me and the company as much as I'm interviewing them.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I do when I'm interviewing for our job.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's actually another red flag that I not to change the subject, but if somebody doesn't have questions for me during an interview, oh yeah.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that is weird to me.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, at least prep some.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just have some stupid ones if you don't like make some shit up.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't researched me, at least fake it.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh pull it up ten minutes before, but yeah, I'm the same way.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not gonna ask me questions, or at least you haven't um asked questions during the interview.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you've asked questions during the interview and then you don't have any follow-up questions, right?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: I some I recognize that sometimes I can be too thorough in an interview.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: I but that's just me.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to know everything about the role.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want surprises.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna do the same because I want to know everything about you because again, you don't want any surprises.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I love when people come in.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've had candidates come in and they have like a, you know, a journal or a notebook and they have questions written out.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yes.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, pristine.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a great start to an interview for me.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, they're prepared, they're taking it seriously.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: I want somebody to be interviewing multiple places and asking people these questions because I want to make sure that they're serious about the role that they're accepting if they accept something with me.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and those are the types of candidates that I want on my team.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because if they're gonna prep for the interview, then they're gonna prep for their job.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, every weekend, every night, before they come in, every day.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the people that are gonna show up for you.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh something I always did was I would go um, now obviously not Disney, but you know, for these companies, I would go in and I'd write in a notebook um like my manager's name if I could find or like the manager of the position's name if I could find it, or um, you know, like the founder's name, or whatever you could find on the um website.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I would lay that out in front of the individual just so they would see, okay, he's taken the time to write down the names of you know those the the important people.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you you learn you get to know the team, but you know, you most of the time you can see the manager's name on the website.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love when somebody comes in and they kind of have some sort of awareness of who we are, and they mention, you know, Dana, or they mention Tyler, or they mention Landon, and they ask about your position, or you know, whoever.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um just somebody that's engaged is is a big green flag.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when you are like talking to them via email, setting them up for the first um uh interview, are you like helping them and coaching them?
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god, no.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Nope.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't give them any help.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm also like, you know me, Landon, I'm very judgmental.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is just a personality trait that I've had.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and let's be honest, everyone judges everybody.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm whether they admit it or not.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: I you're judging if this person is going to be a good fit for your team.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I the email, oh my gosh, if they have bad email etiquette, I'm out.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm out.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you don't want them doing that with your clients.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: What if they don't send a thank you follow-up.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't necessarily like write them off, but I do think that you know, maybe if I was between two candidates and one of them sent a follow-up and one of them did not, I would probably lean towards the one that did.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, you show some care.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're showing that you're invested.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're thanking me for my time.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's super valuable.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I don't uh immediately write them off if they don't do that, but it's a green flag when they do.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's a huge red flag when they don't to me.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean to me it's the same thing as like just letting me take care of the uh coffee cup.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're not you're not taking You're not that serious about it.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: If, you know, and and there's been interviews that I was like, this job isn't for me, and I still follow up and say, hey, thank you so much.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'd actually like to withdraw my cannoncy.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, spicy.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, and not necessarily spicy, but I'm still thinking that in I mean, I guess I could be a little spicy when I do it.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: But you're like, forget about me now.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, well, you wish you could have.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Should have been better in your interview because I interviewed you and it wasn't a good fit.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, companies have done that to me plenty of times.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like I can do that to the company I want to work for.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: What's your like favorite to wrap this episode up, what's your favorite like go-to or a few different go-to questions that you like to ask?
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: I always so previous leaders, and you actually rephrase this one for me when I came on.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: So um one of my favorites is to ask, you know, hey, who is your favorite boss in the past?
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: Who was your favorite leader in the past and why?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because then that tells me am I going to be able to serve this individual good in leadership?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I feel like I can adapt my leadership.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty well depending on what the individual needs.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm also I am who I am, and you know, I may not be able to lead this individual.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then I follow up with that with, okay, well, this is how I am as a leader.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: That way you know, hey, maybe he's not the one for me.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: I will not be good at his direct report.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's very important to um acknowledge.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then I I'll talk about the ones I don't do, and then um I'm gonna ask you the same questions.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um but the ones that really annoy me are the ones that, you know, are not necessarily the critical thinking ones, but the they almost seem impossible to ask or to answer.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I was interviewing for a job with um Fidelity in uh it was either Tampa or Orlando, I don't remember.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they were asking me about if there was light switches on the outside of the room, and then you had to turn off the room.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the they were on the outside of the room, okay, and then the light fixture was inside the room, and you had to turn the lights off a certain way.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like what?
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: What that had to do with the job, I'll never knew.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: And they were definitely thinking about critical thinking, but I was like, okay, you go out, you put one off, and you see what you go back in, but you could only go back in once or something.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: I still don't know the answer to the question.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: What I didn't get the job, so yeah.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: I would be like, uh, what does this have to do with anything?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, me, I'm over here scrambling trying to help find the answer, and I'm like, gosh, you don't know.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let me find out.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, but no, it was it and it still haunts me to this day because it was the stupidest question ever.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um I will never ask those questions.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do like to ask, you know, questions that pertain to the job too.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: So what is your favorite question to ask?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then what is something that you just don't ask?
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, so I think the the one that I said earlier is probably my go-to right away to like it's kind of assess.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also like to ask um more like soft skill questions, like tell me about a time that you've sacrificed for somebody.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that um that can be personal or professional.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: Usually people lean more professional because we're interviewing for work, but um I like to hear kind of their perspective of sacrifice and what that looks like for them.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if if I like their way of thinking or if I can understand their their logic, um, because sometimes people will give me weird answers and I'm like, that's not really a sacrifice.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm also very judgmental, so you know.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um opening the door, stay in five minutes late's not that big of a sacrifice.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes, for sure.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I also like them to describe their worst boss.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because I want to know what exactly about their worst boss made them that way.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like what didn't you like about them?
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it to me, again, I am very judgmental, but I will kind of assess.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if someone doesn't like direct feedback, I get that it's hard to have direct feedback, but they're obviously they won't be a good fit for me.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: They'll be reporting to me.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: But then like you're gonna you're not gonna give them yeah.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna hear my shit.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh true.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're just, you know, we're all like all three founders are very fast-paced in our positions.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: And they gotta keep up.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they have to be able to keep up.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to be able to say, hey, they're they don't need to hurry the heck up or they need to get with the program.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you come out and say I don't like direct feedback, then you're pretty much saying I don't want to grow as a person.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: In my opinion.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's like coming out and saying it nobody likes direct feedback, but you can appreciate direct feedback because it helps you grow.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: What's your um okay, one more question, and then we can we'll wrap this one up.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds good.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: But what is your opinion?
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll you'll laugh when I uh ask this.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's your opinion on lateness in interviews?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, lateness in interviews, we both know.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: I give chances, so I give about a five-minute grace period.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I have a story that maybe I'll share sometime.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um reason being.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also, you know, the why the matters, how it was communicated matters.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and depending on that, depends on if I bring them back.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: What's your opinion of lateness?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a big no.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you are not five minutes early to an interview, I think you're late.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like if it's we have an interview at 1.30 and it's 1.30, and you haven't I haven't been notified that you're here.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'll like I tell you, I'm like, well, guess they're not showing up.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't it's not hard to be five minutes early.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's harder to be like 15 minutes early.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: I would prefer nobody is that early for an interview.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: But five minutes is like a good period of time to show me that you care.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I'm kind of a stickler for that.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that I won't interview the person, but I already have kind of like a little bit of a red flag.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um definitely.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: So and if they're like more than five minutes late, I don't interview them.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: No coming back.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: Unless they have a really good excuse.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: It happens to the best of us sometimes, like when the recruiter sends you to the wrong address.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: See, that's yeah, that sucks.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like in that case, I'm understanding.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know you are.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: But hopefully this is helpful.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think we have such great perspectives.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: And different perspectives.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, what works for one person might not work for another, but you can take kind of tidbits of what we do, merge them together.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you're more like Landon, maybe you're more like Sabrina over here, but hopefully.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're lucky, you're like a little bit of both of us.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit of both.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: A little balance.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: We love balance.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for listening.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, we'll see you next Thursday.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: See ya.