Latest / Gladden Longevity Podcast / [REPOST] The Fasting Phenomenon: Reimagining Longevity and Metabolic Mastery - Episode 228

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[REPOST] The Fasting Phenomenon: Reimagining Longevity and Metabolic Mastery - Episode 228 · Gladden Longevity Podcast

0:01
Welcome, everybody, to this edition of the Gladden Longevity Podcast.
0:04
I'm your host, Dr.
0:05
Jeffrey Gladden.
0:06
And, um, I'm here today with Steve Reiter who's back in the saddle.
0:10
I don't know what he was playing hooky there for a week or so it felt like, but traveling.
0:16
Yeah, that's what, that's what they all say traveling.
0:20
Okay.
0:21
week
0:22
and then to Atlanta for a widowers retreat.
0:23
I did have a date while I was there in Phoenix, did have a date while I was there in Phoenix, but no, that wasn't the primary reason.
0:31
no, In reality, the primary reason was I got together with Dr.
0:37
Denis Cortes, who's the former president and CEO of the Mayo Clinic.
0:41
Okay.
0:41
And so, we had lunch and talked specifically about patients rights and his support of that.
0:46
And so, really started to talk and also his, so really started to talk and also his, on really funding some initiatives within the American healthcare system initiatives within
0:58
the American healthcare head and making it more of a value-based system.
1:02
making it more of a value-based system.
1:04
on.
1:05
media strategy for that
1:06
nonprofit. that
1:07
nonprofit. Then Atlanta for a widower's retreat and then Atlanta for a widower's retreat and
1:11
Nashville to go hang with some friends.
1:12
And so I was gone for a week and a half, but my favorite part was at, in that Phoenix, we were a half a mile away from PS to what peak used to be called squat peaks and one of the
1:22
two tallest peaks there in the Phoenix area, half a mile walk to get over to the trailhead and then 1100 foot elevation gain over the course of about a 1.3 mile up.
1:33
I think it was it's.
1:35
It's.
1:36
Yeah.
1:37
I mean, when you're just pushing up and I mean, especially with all the extra oxygen that I came in with.
1:43
Yeah, you're kind of bouldering to get up it is almost what it feels like in spots.
1:47
Yeah.
1:47
So yeah, it's good.
1:49
the end.
1:49
How about you?
1:50
How was your last week and a half?
1:52
Oh man, I can't remember much of it.
1:53
It was a blur.
1:54
No, it's been great actually.
1:57
Great time with the family, great time with the kids.
2:01
Over the weekend in Denver, actually, I went to Colorado because you weren't there.
2:04
And so it was great.
2:08
Exactly.
2:08
That's right, I knew it was safe.
2:11
So, well, we're back today.
2:13
We have a return guest with us today, Dr.
2:18
Chris Rhodes.
2:20
And...
2:21
Chris basically has done some amazing work in this whole area of the benefits of fasting and being able to mimic the benefits of fasting through several molecules that he's
2:34
managed to put into a capsule.
2:37
So Chris, welcome back to the Gladden Longevity Podcast.
2:40
Thanks, Jeff.
2:41
Really happy to be here again.
2:43
Yeah, good.
2:43
So, just for some of the people that aren't familiar with Mimeo, M-I-M-E-O, Mimeo.
2:50
Maybe.
2:51
Oh, yeah, that too.
2:52
M-I-M-I-O.
2:53
Wow, I've been taking the wrong thing, apparently.
2:55
So, M-I-M-I-O, thank you.
3:03
It's pronounced Mimeo as in E-O, but it's I-O.
3:05
Okay.
3:06
So, I'm a phonetic speller, apparently.
3:09
So anyway, tell the people a little bit about
3:12
about Mimeo and kind of how you came around to discovering this, quite honestly.
3:18
Yeah, so Mimio is a biomimetic supplement.
3:24
And Mimio Health as a company is the only biomimetic supplement.
3:29
Yeah, so this is good.
3:35
This is actually good for the spelling of Mimio too.
3:38
So, biomimetic essentially means that we are studying the
3:43
like, natural things that happen in the body in order to find a way to code and recreate them.
3:48
So, your body already knows how to heal itself, right?
3:52
It has these natural built-in, regenerative processes.
3:56
If you get a cut, you know, it stitches itself back together, you can hardly tell it was there, right?
4:01
In that same way, there's all these different regenerative states of the body as well.
4:05
So, what we're doing at Mimio, which is actually a combination of mimic and biology together,
4:12
is studying those interesting regenerative systems, those interesting regenerative states that happen in the body, decoding them, and then finding a way to recreate them on demand.
4:23
And the first product that we have, that we've talked about on the show before, is our fasting mimetic product.
4:30
And this was designed from years of clinical fasting research, where we essentially had people come in, fast for 36 hours
4:40
and looked at what actually happened in their bodies.
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And what we found was that there was a unique set of metabolites, so like small molecules that have bioactivity.
4:52
And those molecules were only elevated during a 36-hour fast.
4:57
And when we took those molecules, gave them back to people as a supplement,
5:01
we found that we could recreate all of these beneficial effects of fasting.
5:05
So, anti-inflammatory benefits, antioxidant benefits, cardioprotective benefits, and lifestyle, like lifespan and longevity benefits as well.
5:15
We were able to increase the lifespan of model organisms by 96% just through supplementation with these beneficial fasting metabolites.
5:24
So, what Mimeo is as a product is these unique
5:28
fasting metabolites that would only otherwise be elevated in your system during a 36-hour fast, but we put them in a capsule so that you can take it on demand and activate those
5:39
beneficial fasting pathways without actually having to do a 36-hour fast.
5:44
Right.
5:45
So, let's just for the audience, if they haven't heard this before, and even if you have heard it before, a little refresher may be in order.
5:52
So, let's just talk through those biological effects, because each one of them, individually, is dramatic.
5:59
But when you actually, you know, couple them together, right, cardiovascular flex, inflammation, longevity, let's just walk through each of those.
6:08
They're pretty fascinating stories.
6:10
So, let's start with let's start with inflammation, actually.
6:14
Sure, yeah.
6:15
I mean, inflammation is a really fascinating story, just in general.
6:18
It's one of the major things that actually go wrong over time, right?
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This large amount of chronic inflammation is something that's called inflamaging.
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And essentially, the more, you know, chronic, subacute, what's called inflammation that's happening in your body can lead to a bunch of like short-term or like below-the-surface
6:43
chronic stress over time, which then just kind of accelerates all these damaging processes that happen in the body and is one of the underpinnings of most major diseases.
6:53
So, one of the cool things that fasting does is really help bring the immune system back in control.
7:00
What you see a lot, especially with overnutrition, which is something that we suffer from a lot in Western cultures, is, you know, if you're constantly bombarding your immune
7:10
system with
7:13
it's gonna kind of become overreactive, right?
7:16
It's like, 'Oh, I have all this energy around, like I don't have to conserve my efforts.' So, any little pathogen, any little, you know, like something that's out of place, I'm
7:26
gonna react to and I'm gonna create some inflammation.
7:28
Whereas, in a fasted state, all of a sudden, your immune system is like, 'Okay, I do not have enough energy to just be, you know, yelling at everything that comes my way.
7:38
So, I conserve my efforts and I'm gonna be a little bit less reactive to things.'
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And so, this can be really, really helpful in the context of autoimmunity.
7:47
And that's what you really see with fasting is that it's very, very beneficial for autoimmune conditions.
7:53
That's a nice analogy.
7:55
Just interrupt you for a second.
7:56
It's a really nice analogy about your immune system yelling at everything, right?
8:00
It's versus, it's- kind of reminds me of driving in Greece, where they honk for every reason known to man, right?
8:07
So, it's kind of like, um, you know, honking randomly versus actually just selective honking.
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And when you're calorie deprived, uh, your body kind of falls back into that more selective mode, um, which is interesting.
8:21
And just to add to that, in the longevity space, what we find interesting is that inflammation begets inflammation.
8:28
So, you can get inflamed from the environment, from your mental state, from your physical activity, from a health condition, right?
8:36
Or you can become inflamed from one of the drivers of aging, like senescent cells with secretory cytokines and things, right?
8:43
So, and this inflammation begetting inflammation, begetting inflammation is part of this inflammation
8:50
that Chris was talking about, which really creates this downward spiral.
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And so, the question really is, how do you intercept that, right?
8:56
When it's multifactorial like that across all these areas, how do you actually intercept that?
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So, it's interesting that, you know, fasting is probably one of the most powerful ways to actually go in and interrupt all those processes, quite honestly, and that's a pretty cool
9:13
thing.
9:14
So, to be able to mimic that is also a very cool thing.
9:18
So,
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that's inflammation.
9:21
Do people ever take Mimio and then fast?
9:23
Do they get an added benefit from their fast while they're taking Mimio?
9:27
Yeah, sure.
9:27
Absolutely.
9:28
So, one of the cool things about Mimio is that, you know, we, whenever we say like, 'fasting mimetic', people are like, 'Oh, so I have to give up my fasting or like, you
9:36
know, I don't have to do it.' And they're, they don't necessarily want to, but they don't necessarily have to either, right?
9:41
So, Mimio was designed to mimic a 36-hour fast.
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And what we found was that
9:46
the metabolites that were upregulated during a 36-hour fast weren't elevated with shorter term fasting.
9:53
So, it really took that extreme 36 hours of fasting to get these highly beneficial molecules elevated in the system.
10:02
A lot of the fasting that people are doing right now is more of this shorter term 16:8 style fasting or even one meal a day, right?
10:09
So, if you're doing something that's less than a 36-hour fast,
10:13
these molecules can be really helpful for kind of accelerating your benefits, maximizing the benefits of the shorter term fasts that you're doing, so that you can reach more of
10:22
these long term benefits that a lot of people think they're getting with shorter term fasts, like the immune cell regeneration and reset, or like autophagy, right?
10:32
That aren't actually happening until the much later stages of fasting.
10:37
Even beyond that, the molecules themselves can actually help
10:41
make the fasting easier because they have really interesting entourage effects of helping to reduce satiety or increase satiety, reduce appetite.
10:52
Yeah, exactly.
10:53
Steve, you're going to ask a question.
10:55
Yeah, I was going to point out to listeners that Dr.
10:58
Gladden, I've heard you talk about Mimeo I was going to point out to listeners that Dr.
11:03
Gladden, I've heard you talk about Mimio podcasts and I've heard you talk about it offline as a supplement that you were using regularly.
11:10
about that include slides related to Mimio, quite honestly.
11:14
Yeah.
11:14
So, right.
11:21
Well, I've got a talk coming up in December at A4M in Las Vegas, and I'm going to mention Mimio because it's a piece of the puzzle.
11:32
There's no one thing that is the answer, right?
11:35
But it's definitely such a cool piece of the puzzle.
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One of the, let's talk a little bit about the cardiovascular benefits of it, because I think this is actually very cool.
11:47
Tell us a little bit about that.
11:49
Yeah, I remember the last time I was here, we talked about this a little bit.
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And it's a very rarefied club of people who know when I say that Mimio can enhance cholesterol efflux capacity, somebody actually knows what that means and recognizes how
12:03
cool that actually is.
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So, for folks just tuning in, cholesterol efflux capacity is essentially the ability of your plasma, your blood, essentially, to take cholesterol and suck it out
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of arterial plaques.
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And it's one of the main mechanisms by which your body prevents arterial plaque formation.
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So, as cholesterol efflux capacity goes up, you become more and more protected from cardiovascular disease.
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Whereas, the more it goes down, it's less functional.
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So, you're going to be more at risk for cardiovascular disease.
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And this is something that is kind of independent of the
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cholesterol levels that we're all more accustomed to seeing.
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So, the LDL levels and the HDL levels, bad cholesterol and good cholesterol.
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Those can be helpful clinical markers, but they're often not getting at the underlying question of how well is your plasma, your cholesterol efflux systems actually functioning.
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So, what we were able to show in our study was that, number one,
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fasting itself is of course really beneficial for cholesterol efflux capacity and that makes total sense.
13:15
You're essentially depriving the body of a lot of the exogenous lipids that would be coming in and kind of throwing the system out of whack during normal metabolism.
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So, they kind of have to harvest more cholesterol from your internal systems, which means removing them from plaques and using them for membrane stability and metabolism rather
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than just kind of storing them in the wrong places.
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And then,
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that also helps cut down on inflammation.
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But then what we were able to show was that the metabolites from Mimio, when we gave them back to people as a supplement, were also able to very acutely increase cholesterol efflux
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capacity, like what we saw in fasting.
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So, even within hours of taking the supplement, we could essentially really enhance people's cardio protective ability.
14:06
Yeah, so this is like a really, really cool thing.
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If you're listening to this and you don't fully comprehend this, let me tell you how cool this is.
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We've really, in cardiology, we've actually moved away from cholesterol levels as being the dominant driver of disease.
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In fact, we've known for a long time that really inflammation was the driver of events.
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So, now we're talking about a supplement that decreases inflammation, but now we're also talking about reverse cholesterol transport,
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this cholesterol efflux.
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How do you get cholesterol out of plaque, out of cell membranes, back to the liver?
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That's the reverse element because it's made in the liver and sent back out.
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Right?
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So, it turns out that when you augment reverse cholesterol transport, you decrease your risk for cancer, for dementia, for heart disease.
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And it's, it has such dramatic health impacts
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that to actually have a supplement that can actually do this, right?
15:01
Like, if you're taking a statin for your cholesterol, it is not increasing reverse cholesterol transport, it's decreasing cholesterol production.
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If you're taking a PCSK9 inhibitor molecule, it's not really, it's probably increasing it a little bit in terms of LDL transport back to the liver.
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But to really get at this is a difficult thing.
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Pomegranate actually works to some extent, fasting works to some extent.
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Um, and what they've put in MIMIO actually works.
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And what was fascinating to me when I saw the data was it actually works even when you're eating a meal.
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So, if you, if you eat a meal, you can actually increase your reverse cholesterol transfer to the, to the extent that you take an extra pill.
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So, it's almost like a linear response.
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If you want to have more cholesterol, uh, efflux, just take four pills, take three pills, take two pills.
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It's less, less, less, more more, more.
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So,
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it's really a fascinating physiology.
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And I just want you to understand that this is sitting at a crossroads that impacts so many factors of health.
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It's not just, you know, about diet or appetite or fasting.
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These, these implications are far reaching throughout the body.
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So, that's one of the reasons I became such a, uh, so enamored with it, quite honestly, and started using it, so...
16:18
Yeah, and to expand on that even more, like Jeff was talking about, we have, there's just all these things that cholesterol efflux is touching.
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And I'm a bit of a nerd about this because the lab that I was coming out of in UC Davis where I got my PhD was totally focused on cholesterol research and, essentially,
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what that is branching into now is Alzheimer's research, because of course, one of the biggest factors for Alzheimer's disease risk is your APOE genotype.
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And again, for those that don't know, an APOE is a protein that is associated with HDL cholesterol.
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So, it's like a, you know, it's a protein that's on the particle and it can dramatically affect
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reverse cholesterol transport ability, which then has these far reaching effects.
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But yeah, we're just kind of now teasing out all of the impacts that cholesterol transport can have on cognitive health.
17:15
Yeah.
17:16
And I will just throw this in there.
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There's also, we did another podcast with a guy, Dane Goodenow, that you may know about out of Canada, who's worked in the plasmalogen space and shown that optimizing plasmalogen
17:28
levels in the body and the post-natal choline will also increase cholesterol efflux in people with, yeah, in people with APOE44 that also have the APOC1 gene, right?
17:40
If you have it- Right.
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So,
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when you're starting, if you're working with people that have a risk for dementia, you know, one of the things that we're doing in Gladden Longevity is obviously doing the
17:50
genetics, you know, which, which dementia are you predisposed to?
17:53
Because there are many types, right?
17:54
So, what's that to start with?
17:57
But at the middle of that, you know, we know that if we can improve reverse cholesterol transport, so we optimize plasmalogens, we optimize phosphatidylcholine, but then we also
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go after the Mimio piece because we know that's adding another piece, both on the inflammatory side,
18:13
as well as the reverse cholesterol transport side.
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And I will tell you this, that in any case where there's a decline in mental function, it's always associated with neuroinflammation, always associated with neuroinflammation.
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And so, if you're able to decrease neuroinflammation, you can acutely improve your brain's acuity.
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And then, if you also are going after this reverse cholesterol transport, now you're improving the long-term health of your brain as well.
18:42
So, it's really this multi-layered, multi-faceted physiology that's going on here.
18:47
And MIMIO kind of slots right in next to some other things, right?
18:51
You know, daily exercise, good diet, all these things.
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But it slots right in there as being a major player here.
18:56
And so, that's a very exciting thing.
18:58
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
19:00
I mean, and I think that neuroinflammation is such a really interesting topic because there has been this really robust set of papers that have come out pretty recently about
19:11
one of the ingredients in MIMIO, palmitoyl ethanolamide, its effects on neuroinflammation and just kind of showing that it has this profound tamp down effect for neuroinflammation.
19:23
And because of that has these far reaching implications on all of these cognitive
19:27
decline issues, and even like other mental health disorders like schizophrenia and anxiety and depression.
19:34
It has these like mood elevation effects.
19:36
It has these pain relief elements to it.
19:39
And it's now being actually pretty, pretty intensely researched for helping to prevent things like Alzheimer's from happening from cognitive decline during dementia, even
19:50
Parkinson's disease by decreasing neuronal excitability.
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So,
19:55
just like, you know, when you, that's why I think fasting is so, so interesting, right?
20:00
And why these molecules ended up being so, so powerful because fasting, and I always think about it this way, is kind of like your body's natural longevity bio program, essentially.
20:12
It turns on all of these mechanisms that are specifically altering cellular function for health, maintenance, and survival because at the end of the day, a lot of these-
20:22
a lot of these problems that crop up, especially in aging, typically revolve around there's too many nutrients so your cells get lazy, right?
20:32
They're like, they're just chilling out with a bag of chips like, 'I don't have to go out and find food.
20:37
I don't have to really care about what I'm doing.
20:38
I'm just gonna kind of like run dirty.' Right?
20:41
Whereas, in a fasting state
20:43
they don't have that luxury and they have to be turned on.
20:46
They have to have metabolic efficiency.
20:47
They have to be like scrounging and recycling and breaking dysfunctional things down so they can use it for energy and like, not yelling at everybody that comes by, right?
20:58
So, it like, you know, it really just turns on all of these regenerative mechanisms, these recycling mechanisms, these efficiency mechanisms that help to maintain and optimize
21:06
health over time.
21:08
And when you study that state,
21:10
then you get at like, okay, here are the players that are actually making that happen.
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Here are the bioactive signaling molecules that are turning these pathways on.
21:20
And then, Mimio is just taking those molecules and giving them back to you to kind of hack your way into activating that longevity bio program on demand.
21:30
Yeah, no, it's pretty, pretty amazing.
21:33
I think, you know, you can think of fasting as being kind of in the family of hormetic stresses, right?
21:40
So, you know, you have exercise, you have saunas, you have cold plunges, you have these things where you're where you're stressing the body in a way that makes it get stronger,
21:47
right?
21:47
You're not stressing to the point where it's broken, but you're stressed at that far.
21:51
And so fasting is one of those primary ways to do it.
21:55
The funny thing is, is that we have a lot of people out there
21:59
that are not in our practice per se, but out there, proud of the fact that they eat one meal a day, right?
22:05
It's like, 'Well, I'm fasting for 14 hours.' 'Well, I'm fasting for 16 hours.' 'Well, I'm fasting for 18 hours.' And, my God, 'I only eat one meal a day.' And it's like, yeah,
22:14
well, that's interesting.
22:15
Let's look at the data.
22:17
People eat one meal a day have a 30% increase in all-cause mortality, right?
22:22
And that's a fascinating piece of data too, just as you're listening to this to understand.
22:26
And I think the reason for that is not that fasting is not good because it is, it's the re-eating that's actually stressful.
22:34
And I think we overwhelm the good that we do with, you know, eating one big meal.
22:39
And it's a big metabolic strain on the body to actually accommodate all those calories.
22:42
And so, it leads to inflammation and other things.
22:45
So, anyways, you're trying to find the balance point here.
22:48
What I'm saying is that the Mimio gives you kind of a hack into this to where you can,
22:53
you can actually eat your meal.
22:54
You can take your MIMIO.
22:55
You can do your things.
22:56
And actually it does decrease appetite very, very nicely.
23:00
Again, depending on how many pills you take, you want to dial in appetite suppression, just dial in the number of pills you take.
23:05
That's our experience with it.
23:06
Um, and then, you know, you can get the benefits of fasting, but not, not find yourself overeating and giving them all away too, right at the same time.
23:16
So, pretty cool.
23:16
absolutely.
23:17
That's one of the primary things that we hear from our customers all the time is essentially that they've had a much easier time doing longer term fasting.
23:25
Like they haven't, they don't really feel that hunger.
23:28
They feel the energizing effects of the product and they've been able to go for longer than they ever have before.
23:34
And then, of course, the metabolic and dietary stress side of things is also a really, really interesting conversation because
23:42
as we were talking about chronic inflammation before, I think that there's a big problem in Western society around the way that we structure our food intake.
23:52
Because when you think about it, and a lot of people don't, I think that we have this idea that, yes, food can cause inflammation, but it's only certain foods.
24:01
It's like, 'Oh, if I eat a burger or if I eat pizza, of course, that's going to cause some inflammation, or that's not going to be the best for me.' But any food that you're
24:09
putting into your body is actually gonna have some kind of immune response to it.
24:14
Because at the end of the day, it's a foreign thing that you're putting in your body that your immune system is gonna be like, 'That's not me, I'm gonna yell at it.' And that's
24:25
gonna cause like some post-perandial inflammation.
24:28
And this is a really well characterized phenomenon.
24:30
So, anytime you eat, it's causing some kind of transient inflammation in your body.
24:35
But the problem with that is
24:38
If we're constantly in this fed state, which takes, you know, on average around four to six hours to really get out of, you know, you keep kind of stacking these daily meals and
24:49
snacks on top of each other.
24:50
And you're basically always putting your body in this inflamed state that at the end of the day kind of mimics chronic inflammation.
24:58
So, just going to stack on top of the inflammation that's going to happen from your normal everyday, like stressors and environment.
25:06
So that can like really end up creating these terrible effects over time.
25:11
that can like really end up creating these terrible effects over time.
25:16
that Mimio a day-to-day basis.
25:23
I kind of like to think about it as like sunscreen, but for yourselves, right?
25:26
kind of like to think about it as like sunscreen, but for yourselves, right?
25:28
Like just like.
25:29
just like.
25:29
Take sunscreen every day, put it on your skin to prevent that UV damage.
25:33
You can take Mimeo and help avoid these daily stressors, especially that chronic inflammation that can happen because of overeating.
25:42
Yeah, absolutely.
25:43
Now that's, it's very, very cool stuff.
25:46
Um, so since the last podcast, what's, what's been going on?
25:51
Um, have things evolved, uh, with the Mimio, the formulation with other things that you've been researching, maybe bring us up to speed a little bit on your thoughts there.
26:00
Yeah, absolutely.
26:00
absolutely.
26:03
we've of which is that we have partnered up with Charlie Engel, who is an ultra marathoner performance athlete.
26:11
is an ultra marathoner performance athlete.
26:13
He's done some really crazy stuff over his career.
26:17
done some really he ran across the Grand Canyon.
26:22
He's now gearing up for a lowest point on Earth point on Earth to highest point on Earth run.
26:27
highest point on Earth run.
26:28
And, you know, he tried out Mimeo for himself.
26:31
And even for him as an ultra marathoner, he was like, wow, this actually helps to improve my performance.
26:37
It helps to essentially like speed up my recovery, helps me like just do more endurance things without feeling so fatigued and tired.
26:46
So he's actually going to incorporate Mimeo into his.
26:50
nutrition strategy as he's number one training for the lowest point to highest point run, but also as he's doing it to keep him safe and protected on the inside from the crazy run
27:01
that he's going to do.
27:02
We're really, really excited about that.
27:05
a chance to talk with him.
27:06
When I found out he was going to go from the Dead Sea to the top of Everest, this was before some of the geopolitical things kicked up, but, um, that's an amazing feat, I mean,
27:16
to go from the lowest point to the highest point, right?
27:19
That's, that's crazy.
27:20
definitely beyond me and that's coming from someone who's a good, you know, like 30, 40 years younger than Charlie.
27:28
yeah, no, it's remarkable.
27:32
He's got some genetics that enable him to do that kind of endurance stuff and not kill himself.
27:38
Right?
27:38
But, but also people that do that kind of thing, they're at high risk for other kinds of life events, like atrial fibrillation and congestive heart failure and, you know, other
27:51
things that go along with that, you know, chronic stress factors and fatigue and tendonitis and all kinds of things that can kind of
27:57
beat them up.
27:58
So, anyway, anything that you can do to help keep them safe is a plus.
28:05
So, that's very cool.
28:08
What else?
28:08
What else were you going to share with us?
28:10
Yeah, another big thing that's happening with MIMEO formulation itself.
28:14
So our original formulation was based off of our pilot clinical study, where we showed essentially that, you know, X, Y, and Z combinations of our four active molecules together
28:25
can, you know, increase cholesterol efflux capacity, decrease inflammation, increase cellular stress resistance, even during a meal.
28:34
at the concentrations that we had and went out with in the first formulation.
28:39
So we had great scientific data to back all that up.
28:43
And what we found was that when we went out there, yes, all these things were definitely happening under the surface and we have data that we can actually track through with that.
28:52
But we found that thanks to collaborations like what we did with you, Jeff, that the actual consumer itself from a, what are the effects that I can feel?
29:02
Where is the best?
29:03
appetite suppression, where is the best, you know, like energy enhancement, where's the best pain relief elements to it.
29:11
We decided that we were actually going to increase the bioactives that were in Mimeo to give people a better experience on the product.
29:19
So we're actually upping the bioactives from where they are.
29:23
What percentage are you going to increase them?
29:26
Yeah, we're going to increase them by 50%.
29:29
So the current three pills that you would take with the current formulation of MIMEO, that will be two pills of the new formulation.
29:39
So let me like, and this is a decision that I'm very, very happy with as a scientist, but you don't really see all that much in the broader.
29:47
like, you know, consumer health and supplements based, right?
29:50
Usually when there's a reflux relation, it's like, oh, they're decreasing things or they're just like, you know, kind of shifting them around.
29:56
But for us, we wanted to make sure that we were providing people with a really high quality product that's actually not only improving their, you know, cellular health, but
30:05
also their day to day lives.
30:07
And what will that do to the price of a capsule per se?
30:10
Will it change?
30:11
No change.
30:12
just going to eat it on our side because we want to provide value to people.
30:17
That's very, very important to me.
30:20
I want to make sure that people are having the best experience possible with the product and they're getting an amount of the bioactives that would actually be effective for them.
30:31
I'm totally fine to just increase the quality of the product while keeping the price the same.
30:36
Will you be changing the, the labeling on the bottle or anything like that?
30:41
So, people can distinguish between the two or is it just going to be new pills in the same bottle or what's going to happen?
30:47
It'll be a little bit of an additional change.
30:50
So like instead of like the major designs, the actual like pouch itself, you know, daily cell care, it'll essentially be the same as this, but of course the actives on the back
31:00
will actually be updated.
31:02
You know, we'll have, we're actually gonna have like a little more information down here about the best way to use the product, the right time to take it, like kind of a little
31:08
bit more of the scientific story, but then also this will be biomimetic cell care rather than daily cell care.
31:14
But...
31:15
By and large, it'll all be the Mimeo that you know and love.
31:19
Yeah, beautiful.
31:20
All right.
31:22
And, um, when does that, when does that hit the streets?
31:25
So we've already put the order in, that's moving forward with our contract manufacturer, and that's gonna hit the streets the end of January, early February.
31:34
And so just in time for the new year, new you.
31:37
Okay, nice.
31:38
Yeah, good.
31:39
All right.
31:39
Well, I'll try to fast between now and then.
31:41
So, cool.
31:45
So, you know, I know you have an active brain and an active imagination.
31:48
Are there other things that you're thinking about or?
31:52
Sure, yeah.
31:52
I mean, one of the big things that we're thinking about and that we're very excited about that's also gonna be happening in the new year after we have the reformulation done is our
32:00
larger scale clinical study.
32:02
So we had our pilot study where we, you know, proved that these things work, they work together, they have synergies, this is what the doses that they work at and that they can
32:14
actually help to relieve these acute functional losses that happen during a meal and mimic fasting at the same time.
32:21
And now we kind of want to take the new formulation and really put it to the test to see all of the different health markers that we can move around.
32:31
And so what we're going to do for this is like gold standard, randomized, double blind, placebo controlled study in a large population of older folks, 55 and older, and do
32:46
metabolic disorder.
32:47
So obesity, pre-diabetes, type 2 diabetes.
32:51
And essentially just have folks taking me, oh, Jeff, I think you muted.
32:56
Sorry, so that'll be an inclusion criteria.
32:59
Where?
32:59
Okay, got it.
33:01
yep.
33:01
So we're gonna look at MIMEO specifically in the context of metabolic disorder and specifically in the context of older folks since we know that this is a product that is
33:10
great for older people, especially as you get to the higher age tiers who probably shouldn't really be fasting.
33:19
Well, it can be a little stressful on the body, right, in a way.
33:23
Um, but.
33:23
you have to worry about things like the muscle wasting, the fatigue, sarcopenia, risk of falls, things like that.
33:30
And that's kind of the ironic thing is that some of the folks that could benefit the most from these cellular regenerative effects of fasting are kind of, as you get older, kind of
33:39
precluded from doing it.
33:40
So that's another great case for Mimeo of being able to get these benefits without actually having to have grandma fast for two days.
33:49
Yeah, exactly.
33:50
No, that's awesome.
33:51
Cool.
33:52
Very cool.
33:53
Um, and as the company, um, have plans to branch out into other supplements, or this is what your, this is really your focus or what, tell me about that.
34:03
the first formulation, that's definitely our focus right now, continuing to do research and science on that.
34:09
Two major things that we're always doing in MIMIO is that number one, when we first did the discovery study where we looked at what happened in the body during fasting, we
34:21
identified that there were over 300 metabolites that were significantly upregulated during a fasting.
34:27
And, you know, we screened through them to find the synergistic combination of four, but the way that we screened through them was based on existing literature.
34:38
So if these molecules already had some kind of evidence that they had bioactivity that could induce some kind of biological effect, those were the ones that we prioritized and
34:50
looked at.
34:51
But that leaves around 250 of these molecules.
34:54
that don't already have some kind of literature results around them.
34:58
And that's a really like discovery platform for us to take a look at these unique molecules that no one's really looked at before and see if we can find some novel
35:08
interesting ones that might actually extend lifespan even better than the ones that we found, or might have synergies with our existing combination and just kind of keep
35:17
building this repertoire of these novel clinically derived longevity molecules.
35:23
So, how are you going to test that?
35:25
Is that going to be done with in-silico type testing or which kind of sometimes depends on the medical literature?
35:32
Are you going to use this in animals or cell tissue cultures or what are you going to do?
35:36
Yeah, so I have a very specific philosophy around, like, you know, if you're going to if you're going to try to find a molecule that is going to be helpful for lifespan and
35:45
longevity, I think that the number one arbiter of that is does it extend lifespan?
35:51
So my general philosophy is I want to just test it in C.
35:55
elegans.
35:56
And that's just a very like straightforward short.
35:59
He's testing it in worm, to see if it makes the worm live longer.
36:03
Yeah, exactly.
36:04
So we actually have a research partner that we work with that does high throughput C elegans lifespan analysis.
36:12
So taking that data set that we have on the back end, running it through that, and finding high value targets.
36:21
And then utilizing them to then do more of the human cell culture side of things where we can identify, OK, what are the...
36:29
various cellular effects and pathways that are affected by these lifespan extending molecules.
36:34
Are you going to be looking at things that underlie the longevity measurement?
36:38
Like, are you going to look at the way that genes are modulated in their expression and things like that?
36:44
Is that part of the analysis also?
36:46
Yeah, so that's kind of, that's more like second tier down the road.
36:50
The first, like, the first pass through was like, all right, can any of these molecules actually extend lifespan in any way?
36:56
I don't really care how they're doing it or what their mechanism is, I just want to know that they can.
37:00
And then once I know, okay, this one can, then you kind of take that list and you're like, all right, how is this actually working?
37:06
And then do more like tweaking and analysis there.
37:09
And then after that...
37:11
you know, once you have your concerted list of targets, you know what they're doing, then you kind of move on to bio-manufacturing, getting the production at scale to then be able
37:20
to put it into a product.
37:22
Yeah, nice.
37:23
Okay.
37:24
Well, it's a wonderful thing that you're doing.
37:27
I love the fact that you haven't just found something and you're sitting on it.
37:30
You're actually continuing to evaluate it and expand it and refine it and improve it and with this goal of making it accessible to people, which is such a cool thing.
37:43
So, congratulations on all the progress.
37:45
It's great to reconnect with you on all this.
37:47
Yeah, I really appreciate that.
37:49
And then of course, you know, even beyond what we're doing with the, with the fasting data set itself, just as we ran this with fasting, we can run this in other regenerative states
37:59
of the body too, right?
38:01
So exercise is a big one, like meditation, cold exposure that we were talking about or like, you know, low oxygen environments, things like that.
38:09
trying to identify what happens in the body during all of these interesting, you know, hormetic stress states, these regenerative states, and then just, you know, find these
38:18
really interesting, these really interesting molecules from that.
38:22
So, really, your mission is to crack the code on hormetic stress, really, or hormetic states, right?
38:28
It's kind of a little bit.
38:30
to think of it as just cracking the code on, I don't know, like human functionality, really understanding if you think of the body as a computer, right?
38:41
If you put in the right inputs, it's going to run a program and it'll give you an output.
38:49
And we already know that our body knows how to essentially do everything, right?
38:54
We grew from a single cell into...
38:58
you know, the whole of our beings right now.
39:00
And all of that information is contained within, like, our genetic code, and our body knows how to, like, you know, heal itself in all these different ways.
39:10
So what we're really trying to do at Mimeo is tap into those, you know, thousands and thousands of years of evolutionary knowledge and put the power of our biology on demand.
39:21
Nice.
39:21
We've heard a whole lot about the benefits of Mimeo, but from a practical perspective, when during the day do you each take it and Chris, when have you seen variances in terms
39:34
of what you said, energy and appetite suppression based on, based on people that have bought it and are taking it, what their feedback that you've heard.
39:46
Yeah, for me, like my daily schedule, essentially I will get up, make myself some green tea, and then I'll have that green tea with Mimeo, and that will be essentially my day.
39:58
Like I'm actually on the one meal a day structure, so we'll see whether or not I have an increased mortality rate.
40:06
Rollin' the dice, really.
40:10
But yeah, that's basically.
40:11
what it really boils down to, I think, is how you refeed yourself.
40:14
So, if you are going to do quote unquote one, but the way I think about it is if you're going to narrow your segment in which you're eating, then spread your food consumption out
40:24
within that segment, so that it's not in 30 minutes, but it may be it's spread out over three hours.
40:29
You're still have been fasting for, you know, however many hours, but just to allow your body to kind of accommodate those calories as they come in,
40:38
I think is a safer way to refeed, if you will.
40:40
So, that would be my take on that.
40:42
also think a really important part of that too is, like you said, Jeff, how you're refeeding.
40:47
If you're refeeding with, I fasted all day and then I had a pizza that was all just simple carbohydrates and oils and processed meats, that's going to have a huge impact on things.
40:56
Whereas if you couch that with, okay, I'm refeeding with this enormous salad that's mostly fiber, it's not going to have too much of a glycemic load, and then that's going to slow
41:08
down digestion and spread out that peak even more.
41:11
Right, exactly.
41:13
Yeah, that's the thing.
41:13
You wanna trickle the calories in, so to speak, I think on some level, so.
41:20
How about you, Dr.
41:20
Aladdin, when you take yours?
41:21
about you, Dr.
41:22
Gladden,
41:22
You know, I've played around with it as you might imagine.
41:25
Um, Oh yeah.
41:27
Me.
41:27
Yeah.
41:28
So, I've taken it in the morning.
41:30
Um, I've tried one, two, three, or four.
41:33
And I find that four is really very, uh, potent at suppressing appetite, quite honestly, throughout the, almost the entire day.
41:42
Um, three is quite strong too.
41:44
Um, I still get
41:46
hungry, but it sort of modulates my appetite.
41:48
If I take it in the morning, it tends to modulate my appetite throughout the day, interestingly enough.
41:54
I've also played around with taking it twice a day, just to see what that would do.
41:58
So, two in the morning, two in the afternoon.
42:02
I don't know, I didn't notice as big a difference there as I thought I might, quite honestly.
42:07
And then, I played around with just taking it in the afternoon.
42:09
Like, I'm going to get up, I'm going to work out.
42:11
I need to recover from the workouts.
42:12
So, I'm going to take in some calories to build muscle and do some things like that.
42:16
But now I'll take it in the afternoon because I think the biggest risk in Western society and eating is eating too much at dinner.
42:24
Um, it's kind of like, that's the wrong time to eat and then go to bed.
42:27
Right?
42:27
So, I thought, well, maybe what I'll do is, is take it in the afternoon or mitigate my evening meal.
42:33
Um, and I've only tried that with about
42:35
one or two.
42:36
I haven't tried it with three or four, but I found that at two it didn't impact my appetite as much as when I took two in the morning, oddly enough.
42:46
I don't even know why that is, but it just seems like when you set yourself up for the day in the morning, your body just kind of goes into that state throughout the day.
42:54
That's my experience of it, which isn't to say that, you know, I may not try it in the afternoon again with three or four just to see what that's like.
43:04
One of the things that I want to do too that I've done is to basically decrease neuroinflammation.
43:10
And so, I've tried taking it in the afternoon because, you know, going to bed, laying on my pillow on the right side, you know, the glymphatic system draining.
43:21
I've combined it with Mirica, which is another supplement that has PEA and luteolin in it, which is actually particularly good for neuroinflammation.
43:30
And then, with something else called theramine,
43:31
which is also good for neuroinflammation, which is a FDA approved medical food that comes in a capsule.
43:37
And with that, combining with a couple of peptides like C-Lank, you know, it's really interesting how sharp your brain is.
43:47
Like you can wake up in the morning, you can remember anything that you ever wanted to ever remember.
43:54
And that's such a cool feeling.
43:55
So, I'm really have convinced myself that,
43:58
you know, the key to a sharp brain is really controlling neuroinflammation.
44:02
And so, I think putting together this, uh, this kind of approach, right?
44:06
This strategy, yes, there's longevity, um, that we like, but we also like being really sharp.
44:12
And so, we're sharp today, right?
44:14
Longevity is an abstraction, right?
44:15
It's today that we experience.
44:17
And so, uh, anyway, that's, that's been my experience with it so far.
44:21
Yeah.
44:21
That was kind of my, where I was going with, with my question was we all know the benefits of great rest.
44:29
We know the benefits of what's going on in our body during sleep with the immune system, with the glymphatic system.
44:35
What about Chris?
44:36
What about taking it at night like Dr.
44:39
Gladden or, or in the afternoon like Dr.
44:42
Gladden is.
44:43
Yeah, it's really interesting.
44:44
I mean, we've had some folks who have taken it like, you know, when we were first trying it out, we were in the IndieBio Accelerator program, which is, you know, the largest.
44:58
were having an event and it was probably like six or seven at night and they were like, oh, like Mimeo samples, like gimme, gimme, gimme.
45:04
And so they reported back to us later the next day.
45:08
Where it was like, the product was great.
45:10
We had such a good time.
45:11
Like, you know, we were energetic and we were like lively and focused.
45:14
We did not go to bed until two o'clock in the morning.
45:18
So like they definitely had the energizing effect from the Mimeo and not as much of the like, you know, ah, like restful lymphatic draining effect.
45:28
right.
45:28
Now I've never taken it at bedtime.
45:30
I've only, the latest I've taken has probably been three or four in the afternoon.
45:33
Just full disclosure.
45:35
Yeah, full disclosure.
45:37
absolutely.
45:37
Yeah, I mean, there are distinct effects of taking the Mimeo formulation together versus even taking PEA and Ludiolan together.
45:46
So that is, I think, a great bedtime formulation because the PEA does have the rest, relax, recover effects.
45:54
But interestingly, when combined with the other ingredients in Mimeo, then it becomes very much like a
46:00
mood elevation, like focus, motivation, energy kind of effect rather than that restful sleep effect.
46:07
I see a future product Mimeo Morning and Mimeo Nighttime.
46:11
A.M.P.
46:12
There you go.
46:13
All right.
46:14
trying to think through what the next great Mimeo product is going to be.
46:21
And I think that in the future, we will have, from that data set that we have right now, we have this unknown back-end discovery platform, but then we also have some known
46:33
molecules from that data set that we can kind of already incorporate into a pro model of Mimeo.
46:41
that'll most likely be the next step on the path is really just continuing to build upon the completeness of the fasting bio program.
46:52
Beautiful.
46:52
Yeah.
46:54
Very cool.
46:54
Any other questions, Steve?
46:55
for listeners that are interested, you can go to MimeoHealth, M-I-M-I-O, health.com, and use the coupon code GLADDEN10, you'll get 10% off your order.
47:06
Like I said, Dr.
47:07
Gladden uses it, as you've heard him say, he uses it, and Chris, I'm still waiting for my sample, waiting for my pouch, waiting for my pouch, for me to try it.
47:16
next bulk order to the Gladden clinic, we can definitely include one, sneak it in there.
47:26
Yeah.
47:26
All right, we'll do that.
47:27
Well, great.
47:27
That was terrific.
47:29
Thanks so much, Chris.
47:30
Yeah, absolutely.
47:31
Thanks, y'all.